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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room, brought to you by Keeneland.
00:00:32I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing and XBTV, and I am not the one and only Bill Finley.
00:00:39Apparently, Bill might have bit into a Christmas pudding a little bit too early, Randy.
00:00:44Do you do this in America with Christmas puddings, where people put money, like coins, into the
00:00:51pudding?
00:00:52I've never heard of that, but then you asked me if I was going to wear a jumper on the
00:00:56Christmas delicatessen.
00:00:57I didn't know what that was either.
00:00:58Well, it's a Christmas tradition.
00:01:00You put money in the Christmas pudding, so usually every Christmas, many years ago, there'd
00:01:05be some grandma or a granny or auntie missing a front tooth because they bit into the penny
00:01:10or the pound coin in the Christmas pudding, and I have a feeling that's what's happened
00:01:16to our one and only Bill Finley.
00:01:17Well, I do know what bangers and mash and fish and chips are, and I like them both,
00:01:23but I've never eaten pudding with money in it.
00:01:26I'll have to send you a Christmas pudding.
00:01:29All right, so we mentioned last week and the week before about what is going on at Woodbine.
00:01:34Well, it appears that nothing has been fixed and it's still going on, and I feel for the
00:01:40people at Woodbine.
00:01:42Six fatalities since the November the 9th card.
00:01:46Bill Ford said they are simply monitoring closely situations.
00:01:51Now, last Thursday, spike raises fell and suffered a catastrophic injury.
00:01:56Less than 24 hours later, MAD chairman also broke down in Friday's first race.
00:02:03They've introduced new rules and protocols basically in line with what we have going
00:02:09on here at Santa Anita, and these were brought in place by the Alcohol and Gaming Commission,
00:02:15AGCO.
00:02:17Horses cannot run back within 14 days.
00:02:19We're going to have pre-race inspections and a pre-veterinary workout inspections 48 hours
00:02:26out, which is exactly what has been put in place by the Stronach Group here at Santa
00:02:31Anita, and it's been working.
00:02:33So a lot of protocols going on.
00:02:35What are your thoughts moving forward, Randy?
00:02:39Well, you know, we know from the data and I think the data is very important that the
00:02:46Topita racing surface is on is generally safer than a dirt racing surface.
00:02:52I mean, there have been reams of data at various different racetracks, including Woodbine,
00:02:57that have pretty much proven that.
00:02:58So it's and after the initial wave of breakdowns, they went back and reexamined everything
00:03:05that they were doing with Topita.
00:03:08From the content of the surface to the way it was maintained, so it's really hard to
00:03:14point the finger at the racing surface.
00:03:16So then you have the same sorts of situations that you had at Santa Anita.
00:03:22And even in New York, about 15 years ago, when they had a spate of breakdowns and they
00:03:26formed a commission to try to investigate those breakdowns and they turn over every
00:03:33rock and they and they try to look at the way horses are being trained, the way they're
00:03:37being entered. I know at Santa Anita, they looked at the fact that you had a very rainy
00:03:41winter that year and and the and the racing surface was packed down a lot to try to drain
00:03:48the rainfall that might have contributed to it.
00:03:51But look, I mean, the data also shows that horses that race within two weeks in particular,
00:03:58even 30 days, are more prone to catastrophic injury than those horses that have had more
00:04:06recuperating time since their most recent start.
00:04:09And I don't think 14 days is particularly draconian.
00:04:14I mean, very few horsemen nowadays are really willing to run horses back, certainly not
00:04:20on a regular basis in 14 days.
00:04:22I know there were some scratches at Woodbine as a result of this, but I think a lot of
00:04:27that has to do, Zoe, with the fact that the Woodbine meeting is coming to a close and
00:04:32there's obviously a lot of money there and guys want to get as many races as they can
00:04:36before their horses take the winter off like a lot of those horses do up in Canada.
00:04:42So I don't know if there's any hard and fast answer to this.
00:04:44I mean, we're not privy to exactly what's being, you know, discovered behind the scenes,
00:04:49but I've got no problem with the 14 day mandate.
00:04:56Any horses that have raced within 14 calendar days shall be deemed ineligible and shall
00:05:01be scratched by the stewards as well as some of the other protocols they've come up with.
00:05:06Moving forward into Sunday's card, I believe when I checked there were seven pending scratches
00:05:10due to this new protocol.
00:05:12In its ruling, the AGCO cited that there were 15 musco-skeletal injuries, nine of those
00:05:19resulting to euthanasia.
00:05:21Now, it's hard to blame the track.
00:05:22It's hard to blame the people.
00:05:24Things come in numbers once something happens.
00:05:27We've been through it.
00:05:28I went through it at Arlington.
00:05:29We went through it at Santa Anita.
00:05:31New York has gone through it.
00:05:32It's a horrible thing, but it seems to me that they're doing everything they can in
00:05:36their power to try and remedy the situation.
00:05:39Yeah, and we know as a whole, nationally, the rate of catastrophic breakdowns is lower
00:05:44now in the past year, year and a half than it's been in maybe ever, but for sure in a
00:05:50long, long time since those statistics were first being kept.
00:05:54But as we all know, and as we say pretty often, there's no way to completely eliminate
00:06:00catastrophic breakdowns.
00:06:01Horses break down, they suffer injuries in the wild when they're running in the paddock.
00:06:05I mean, certainly when they're in the heat of competition during a race, there's no way
00:06:08to completely avoid any types of injuries.
00:06:12And statistically, some are going to occur bunched together more often than others.
00:06:16It's not going to be a real neat spacing of injuries.
00:06:19Hopefully, that's what we're looking at here at Woodbine.
00:06:23And I guess the proof will just be going forward what the situation is there with these
00:06:29new protocols.
00:06:30All right, let's move on to a happier note, and Bill will be sad he missed this one.
00:06:34Rated by Merit, won again, 4 for 4, the 11th horse to sweep the Florida Stakes Sire Series
00:06:42since 1982.
00:06:45Rated by Merit.
00:06:46How good is he?
00:06:47What number did he get?
00:06:48I think he got a 93 buyer speed figure for this win, as opposed to the 99 that he had
00:06:57in the most recent stakes race in the series.
00:07:00Look, I mean, in many cases, horses that win these stallion series races in Florida at
00:07:07Gulfstream, some of those ones that have swept in the past were kind of lightly regarded
00:07:12because obviously the restricted nature of those races doesn't lend itself to competing
00:07:17against the toughest rivals, right?
00:07:20In this case, though, I think Rated by Merit is getting more attention maybe than a lot
00:07:23of the other horses that came before him, just because of how fast he's been running.
00:07:28He has been running sensationally fast times for two-year-olds.
00:07:32Now, the only question I suppose going forward, Zoe, is, is Rated by Merit a horse that's
00:07:38going to now take the next step forward when he continues to run around two turns against
00:07:46the better three-year-olds that are going to be coming down from New York and coming
00:07:50over from Kentucky?
00:07:51Or is he just one of these super precocious type horses that is going to plateau early
00:07:58in his career and is going to kind of keep this same level all the way through and might
00:08:03be caught and passed by some of the two-year-olds that will be improving next year?
00:08:07It's an interesting question, but boy, is he fast.
00:08:10Yeah, and that was his first start around two turns.
00:08:13He's not that pretty to watch in the final 16th because he got to kind of wobbling around
00:08:18a little bit and looked like he got a little bit tired, but he's quick early and it'll
00:08:22be really interesting to see how he matches up when he jumps out of state bred company.
00:08:27He's one of these horses that when you watch run, you say, okay, he's a good horse.
00:08:31He's a one by eight, but he didn't blow me away.
00:08:33He won by six, but I mean, he looked good.
00:08:36And then you see how fast he ran.
00:08:37You're like, whoa, wait a second, you know?
00:08:41And the track wasn't particularly fast at Gulf Stream Park on Saturday.
00:08:44So I think that makes his final time look even better.
00:08:48Okay, let's move on and talk about the Brad Cox segment of this podcast right now, as he had not
00:08:54one, but two rising stars at Churchill.
00:08:58We'll start with the 46th rising star for that super stud stallion into mischief.
00:09:04And that was a Chasten by Into Mischief out of lockdown makes this one a half
00:09:09sister to that wonderful, wonderful, massive mare idiomatic.
00:09:16Was that what you were expecting from her?
00:09:17She's almost as big as her sister.
00:09:20She wasn't the betting favorite.
00:09:22No, three to one.
00:09:24Which given her pedigree would sort of, and given the fact that it's Brad Cox is the trainer
00:09:30who's great with first time starters in Kentucky would sort of, I think, be an indication
00:09:35that maybe she wasn't blowing the clockers away, blowing some of the horsemen away by her works.
00:09:42And the fact that she was in blinkers first time out,
00:09:46and she didn't have trouble at the start, really.
00:09:48I mean, she might've got herself pinched back a little bit because she didn't jump very quickly,
00:09:53which happens a lot with horses.
00:09:55But I mean, she was last.
00:09:57Yeah.
00:09:57She was last a few strides out of the gate, probably six or seven links back.
00:10:01When you say rising star, TD and rising star, I think the emphasis here should be on rising
00:10:06because the buyer figure for this particular race, I think comes back at 68 or 69.
00:10:13If this was a horse with a different pedigree and a different trainer,
00:10:18nobody would even be giving this horse any consideration whatsoever.
00:10:23But the fact that she's big like Idiomatic was, and the fact that she's her half sister,
00:10:29Idiomatic was by Curlin, Chasten is by Into Mischief, would obviously put her more in the
00:10:37spotlight than I think this particular performance itself might deserve.
00:10:44Now, can she continue to improve like Idiomatic did?
00:10:49It's entirely possible, but I think maybe at this point in her career,
00:10:55she may be slightly overrated, but we'll see.
00:10:59And just to let everybody know, we do not do the rising stars here.
00:11:03Myself, Randy, nor Bill do the rising stars in here.
00:11:06So don't be writing in saying she was a rising star.
00:11:10Anyway, she was a rising star.
00:11:11That's Chasten.
00:11:13One race later or two race later, the 47th rising star, and this was good.
00:11:18This was absolutely eye-catching.
00:11:20Patch Adams went his final 3.8 in 35.06, I think.
00:11:29He was 0.33 off of Groupie Doll's track record, running seven furlongs in 120.77,
00:11:38winning by 10.5 lengths.
00:11:40How good is Patch Adams?
00:11:42Oh, he sure looked awfully good in this particular spot.
00:11:4598 buyer speed figure that maybe could have even been a little bit higher.
00:11:49Second lifetime start, came out of a fast maiden race at Keeneland,
00:11:54but he took his game to the next level.
00:11:56He didn't benefit from a clear early lead.
00:11:58He was on the pace, but he was outside, rated nicely.
00:12:05Separated with another horse, Zatz the one, the horse that was part of the pace.
00:12:10They came to the head of the stretch right together, really.
00:12:13And then Patch Adams just left them all behind.
00:12:17Very impressive performance.
00:12:20We'll see about the two turns thing, because that's probably
00:12:23where Patch Adams will be going next.
00:12:26Brad Cox's horses will be based primarily at the fairgrounds.
00:12:30He'll have the fairgrounds in Oaklawn Park as options.
00:12:34But this is a horse that really, really deserves a lot of attention going forward.
00:12:38And by the way, just in case you're wondering, Patch Adams is a real life doctor based in
00:12:44Washington, D.C., who is known for using humor as part of his medical and social activism.
00:12:54And he was his life story was told on screen in a movie of the same name,
00:13:01Patch Adams, starring Robin Williams.
00:13:03So if Patch Adams continues to go down the road as a top three year old,
00:13:08we may be seeing and hearing from the real life Patch Adams at some point along the way.
00:13:14No question.
00:13:15I thought you were actually going to go down the rabbit hole and talk about his pedigree,
00:13:19because look what I have right here, Randy.
00:13:21Do you see what I'm holding?
00:13:22Yes.
00:13:24You have that too?
00:13:25Oh, look at us.
00:13:26We are both holding Jay Hovde's book on Well Armed, A Thoroughbred of Destiny.
00:13:33Have you read it yet?
00:13:35I have not read it yet.
00:13:36I've just kind of leafed through it a little bit.
00:13:38It's Bill Kasner's basically life story and the horse's life story as well,
00:13:43which is a remarkable story.
00:13:45And the coincidences in this are absolutely mind boggling.
00:13:50Once you read it, you'll get chills.
00:13:52You'll be like, bloody hell.
00:13:54Really?
00:13:54Written by Jay Hovde.
00:13:55And the reason we're talking about this is because Patch Adams is out of well-humored,
00:14:01who's out of a life well-lived, who is a full sister to Well Armed.
00:14:06And it is a must read.
00:14:08Bred and co-owned by Winstar Farm, who obviously had Well Armed,
00:14:12along with Sienna Farm and the China Horse Club.
00:14:15So some powerful ownership there as well.
00:14:18Very powerful indeed.
00:14:20So Cox, Patch Adams, he's probably going to be on a lot of people's radars moving forward.
00:14:28All right.
00:14:28I did mention that the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:32Make plans to attend the three-day January sale, which will be held from January the 13th to the
00:14:3815th.
00:14:38Keeneland's January sale, Horses of All Ages, is noted for high quality broodmare prospects
00:14:44and short yearlings, and for being among the final opportunities for breeders to obtain
00:14:50stock as the breeding season nears.
00:14:52We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:14:59At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:15:04Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:15:11Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs, for the
00:15:21love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:15:26Time now for the TDN's Fastest Horse of the Week, brought to you this week by Two Fills.
00:15:32By Two Fills, one of my many, many favorite horses.
00:15:36Two Fills, one of the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:15:39They like to say that he's too fast.
00:15:41Two Fills has got a lot of evidence to show exactly how fast he was.
00:15:46First of all, when he was second in the Kentucky Derby, he earned a lofty buyer speed figure
00:15:51of 105, but there's a lot more than just that.
00:15:54He won the Ohio Derby in the fastest time since that race was made a mile and an eighth.
00:16:00And on the Ragazin speed figure scale, he earned a five and a half, twice the best Derby
00:16:06Prep winner number leading in to the run for the roses in 2023.
00:16:11Two Fills has his first foals in 2025, and you get all that speed at Windstar for a fee
00:16:18of just $10,000.
00:16:21The Fastest Horse of the Week ran on Thanksgiving Day at the fairgrounds in the Thanksgiving
00:16:27Classic, back to back in that race for miles ahead.
00:16:32A seven-year-old gelding who won the 2023 Thanksgiving Classic by four and a half lengths
00:16:38with a career-high buyer speed figure of 104.
00:16:42He was off the board in his next two starts, and he came back to defend that title Thursday
00:16:47at the lofty price of 15 to one, and he ran down odds-on favorite Montalcino to win the
00:16:54Thanksgiving Classic by a head under C.J.
00:16:56Hernandez with a buyer figure of 101.
00:16:58Owned by Samantha Siegel's JMS Stable, trained by Paul McGee, miles ahead.
00:17:03Your Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:17:11Our newest sponsor here on the TDN Writer's Room happens to be Gainesway Farm, which is
00:17:15bringing you now the Gainesway Guest of the Week, which just happens to be Gainesway General
00:17:21Manager Brian Graves.
00:17:22Brian, thanks for taking the time.
00:17:24A lot of exciting things going on at Gainesway right now.
00:17:26Tell us about the stallion situation, including some of the new upcoming stallions you're
00:17:31looking forward to.
00:17:33Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:17:35You know, we're busy.
00:17:37We've got four new stallions this year, and we've got a young stallion at Gainesway making
00:17:42a lot of noise on the freshman sire list named McKenzie.
00:17:47So we're busy here.
00:17:49You know, that's the way you want to be if you're in the stallion business.
00:17:52So, you know, we're happy.
00:17:55We're happy to have the action.
00:17:57Well, Brian, you've got 12 stallions at Gainesway.
00:18:01You've got four new ones.
00:18:02Let's start off with the new ones.
00:18:05It seems like you guys have a fixation towards gray stallions.
00:18:0812 stallions, five of them are gray.
00:18:12Let's talk about the first one, Seize the Gray, and what you're expecting and hoping
00:18:16from him.
00:18:17Was it not just announced that he's going to have a date with Goodnight Olive?
00:18:21Yeah, I was going to save that little part, that little tidbit.
00:18:24But yeah, it was tweeted last night by Jon Stewart that he's going to send his, you know,
00:18:30his grade one mare, Goodnight Olive, to Seize the Gray in his first book.
00:18:35So, you know, obviously we couldn't be any more excited about that.
00:18:40Seize the Gray is a very, very good incoming stallion prospect.
00:18:45You know, we're really, really glad to have done the deal on him and really glad to have
00:18:49him here.
00:18:50Firstly, his name recognition has just been outstanding.
00:18:57As a dual grade one winner son of Arrogant, he's, you know, just had a lot of shows at
00:19:05the farm and off to a really great start.
00:19:07Gotten a ton of mares right out of the bat, and so, you know, we're really excited about
00:19:14the potential.
00:19:15I think what he offers breeders, just with his size and strength and good looks, is just
00:19:23a throwback to Arrogant, who was cut out to be a good horse.
00:19:26And I think that that blood doesn't want to die.
00:19:30And, you know, Seize the Gray is a really great opportunity.
00:19:36So, obviously, the big gun in the stallion roster, Brian, has been and continues to be
00:19:42Tappet.
00:19:43I guess you could call him Gray.
00:19:44He looks more white now in his old age, and he's done so much for the farm.
00:19:49I mean, you've got four sons of Tappet standing stud as well.
00:19:53Give us an update on what's going on with the old guy.
00:19:56How's he doing?
00:19:57And what has he meant to Gainesway over these last 10 or 15 years?
00:20:01I mean, Tappet is just a dream horse.
00:20:04You know, he's a once-in-a-lifetime horse.
00:20:08You know, the problem with Tappet is once your boss has had Tappet, he wants another
00:20:12Tappet.
00:20:13And, you know, the Tappets don't grow on trees.
00:20:16So, you know, he's carried Gainesway for the last 20 years, you know, really lifted the
00:20:25farm up and let the farm do more than the Gainesway did before we had Tappet.
00:20:30And in terms of racing horses, you know, he's basically supplied the financial resources
00:20:37to do it.
00:20:39And I would say that it is because of Tappet and, you know, his current age as to why we
00:20:45have been aggressive in getting new horses, sons of Tappet, and really, you know, the
00:20:53and really just more horses at Gainesway in general so that we have a chance to get another
00:21:01horse, you know, remotely as good as Tappet has been for the farm.
00:21:05I apologize for not looking this up in advance.
00:21:08How old is Tappet right now?
00:21:10And how's he doing?
00:21:12Tappet is doing great.
00:21:15He is 24 this year.
00:21:18Last year, Tappet bred 80 mares.
00:21:21You know, this year, we'll probably breed 60, 70 mares again.
00:21:27He's doing quite well.
00:21:28You know, he's active on the general sire list.
00:21:32He's still producing grade one winners.
00:21:35Arthur's Ride was a horse that won a grade one for Tappet this year.
00:21:39In addition to that, he had several grades, graded stakes winners, grade two winners,
00:21:44grade three winners.
00:21:45You know, he's still a horse.
00:21:47He doesn't, he can't breed quite the numbers to keep him, you know, as a number one stallion
00:21:54anymore on the general sire list, but he's very consistent and he can still get you a
00:21:59grade one winner.
00:22:00Two million dollar yearlings by him last year and three $900,000 yearlings right under that.
00:22:05I mean, people, they understand the power of Tappet.
00:22:09And, you know, he's an all-time leading grade one winning producing stallion.
00:22:19He's a champion stallion.
00:22:21And now, of course, he's one of the leading broodmare stallions in the world.
00:22:25So, you know, what is there to say about Tappet other than you just hope that you can fill
00:22:34his shoes one day with horses that are half that good.
00:22:38We've got plenty in the pipeline.
00:22:40What were the initial expectations?
00:22:44I know you weren't there to begin with when Tappet first arrived because he wasn't an
00:22:50overnight success.
00:22:51He had to work at it and things had to go that way.
00:22:55So when you're looking at new stallions, are you trying to build them along the Tappet
00:23:00lines?
00:23:00How do you do that?
00:23:02Man, I honestly think that, you know, for Gainesway and the way Mr. Beck thinks about
00:23:10horses, you know, they just have to be qualified and they had to show a certain amount of brilliance
00:23:19because, you know, if they have that, you know, I think that a really good stallion
00:23:26can come from anywhere.
00:23:28Tappet was probably not the most sought after stallion when he first came to stud.
00:23:35I believe his price was $3.6 million and it was a partnership deal and, you know, he had
00:23:43passed through the ranks of the largest, most competitive farms that, you know, that give
00:23:49the highest prices for stallion prospects.
00:23:52So, you know, but he had the magic gene which produces runners and passes that gene along
00:24:00to his offspring and then they in turn determine how good a stallion is going to be.
00:24:05So, you know, we think that stallions can come from anywhere.
00:24:10We like to see brilliance.
00:24:13You know, we love to see grade one wins and we love to see some pedigree and, you know,
00:24:20but we accept the fact that a good horse can come from anywhere
00:24:24and the more chances you have, the better off you are.
00:24:29So, we know McKenzie was a good horse and he's off to a fast start at stud.
00:24:33Give us a little behind the scenes on McKenzie.
00:24:36What's he like around the farm and what sort of character traits is he passing on to his
00:24:40offspring?
00:24:42You know, he's all class, you know, he was on the racetrack.
00:24:46He was a four-time grade one winner.
00:24:48He won grade ones at two, three, and four years of age.
00:24:52You know, the first time I saw McKenzie, I thought he was an absolutely beautiful headed
00:24:58horse with a lot of class and he's got a very long kind of Bob Baffert neck and sloping
00:25:05shoulder.
00:25:07You know, he's passing those specific traits along to his offspring.
00:25:15You know, they have speed like him.
00:25:17McKenzie was a horse who didn't actually make a start until October of his two-year-old
00:25:23year.
00:25:23And so, it's very encouraging to see how much success he's having as early as he is
00:25:30because we feel and we hope that they will get even better with age.
00:25:36He's, you know, been a real breath of fresh air to Gainesway and to be in a position now
00:25:43where he's the leading freshman sire today, you know, just makes everyone around here
00:25:50very proud.
00:25:51And it's nice to have the action at Gainesway and the hope that he can be a real significant
00:25:58stallion in the future and one that can partially fill Tappet's shoes moving forward.
00:26:02What has been the general thoughts about Mooth?
00:26:06Because he's one of the ones I'm most excited to see, a $2 million two-year-old coming in,
00:26:11you know, the usual Bob Baffert MO.
00:26:14But he's kind of a really cool looking horse who stands over a lot of ground.
00:26:19I'm not sure people realize quite how scopey he is.
00:26:23Yeah, I was quite surprised to see, being a good son of good magic, how substantial he
00:26:29was in height and scope when I went to see him.
00:26:32And, you know, for me, he was a wow.
00:26:36He was an automatic yes when I laid eyes on him.
00:26:40Of course, I had seen him, as I know you had as well, at the Ocala two-year-old sale
00:26:46where he topped the sale.
00:26:50You know, he's just been a brilliant horse from the word go, really.
00:26:55And I saw him as a marquee kind of stallion acquisition opportunity for Gainesway.
00:27:01And, you know, really, Mackenzie was probably a big help in just our ability to secure a
00:27:09horse like Muth because of a lot of the same people that were involved, like the qualifications
00:27:16of Muth as well.
00:27:18You know, he's a super looking horse, son of good magic.
00:27:23He stands 16' 1 1⁄2", beautiful, long, sloping shoulder and neck, big hip, you know,
00:27:32really just a wow physical.
00:27:35You know, he was brilliant on the track from the word go.
00:27:39After he topped the sale in June, he wins his maiden race by eight lengths, geared down,
00:27:47TDN Rising Star, you know, fractions of 21, 45 and change, geared down.
00:27:55You know, the horse wins the American Pharoah in the fastest time since American Pharoah
00:28:00himself won the race.
00:28:02He's second to fierceness in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:28:06He goes on and shows which really very few horses can show that they can stretch that
00:28:13speed and win at a mile and an eighth at three.
00:28:16And Muth did that as well in the Arkansas Derby.
00:28:20And he did it against grade one winners.
00:28:22He did that against Timberlake and he did it against the eventual Kentucky Derby winner,
00:28:28Mystic Dan.
00:28:28So, you know, he's just a marquee prospect, very unlucky not to add a classic win to his
00:28:37resume when he was two to five and got a fever.
00:28:44So we're just we're just really excited about the potential.
00:28:47He's been overwhelmingly popular here at the farm right off the right off the, you
00:28:54know, first show.
00:28:55If you don't mind, I'd like to ask you an industry question, really, from from 35,000
00:29:01feet.
00:29:02I find the state of the thoroughbred industry right now to be very confusing.
00:29:09On one hand, the on track product doing very well in some areas.
00:29:14But obviously, as we've talked about on this podcast, often in Southern California, it's
00:29:17really struggling.
00:29:18Then on the breeding side of it, the sales are going great guns, but yet the full crop
00:29:23continues to decline.
00:29:26Can you make some sense out of all this?
00:29:31I can't make a lot of sense.
00:29:32So, you know, I know that the full crop has been shrinking.
00:29:37And that's an obvious concern.
00:29:40I think the concern is not that it's shrinking.
00:29:45that's an obvious concern. I think the sale question is is
00:29:51probably just a matter of supply and demand. And, you know, with
00:29:56there not being as many on offer, I think that, you know,
00:30:00the ones that are there and the ones that are perceived as, as
00:30:04the better of the bunch still still bring a lot of money. You
00:30:10know, it's, it's been my observation that it is a fair
00:30:14bit polarized as to what's what are perceived the best horses.
00:30:18And then when you get to the, to the middle market and lower
00:30:21end, it's it's not quite so easy as all at all. So, you know, the
00:30:26remarket, the market just remains very polarized. And, you
00:30:31know, but it but it is good to see plenty of participation and
00:30:35plenty of demand for the horses that we are breeding.
00:30:38When you say polarized, how do you how do you define polarized?
00:30:43Well, polarized is just when, you know, the market seems to
00:30:48all gravitate to the same horses, the same physical, the
00:30:54same horses that that they think have a chance to become grade one
00:30:58winners and stars. And so you you'll you'll sell a horse for
00:31:031.2 million. And then you know, you'll sell a horse for 20,000.
00:31:07It's all the action seems to be in one spot. And then you know,
00:31:11many horses are that aren't perceived as as the best, you
00:31:16know, don't don't really get much action at all.
00:31:20Gainesway sales are going great gangbusters. I mean, they
00:31:24seriously are going gangbusters the last few years and, and
00:31:27you're basically at the head of all of it. And there's a lot of
00:31:31talk in the sales pitch breed to sell breed to race. Can you
00:31:37explain for somebody listening who doesn't know the difference?
00:31:41What is the main differences between those two theories?
00:31:44You're breeding to sell or breeding to race?
00:31:48Well, the way I perceive it is, is that if you're breeding to
00:31:51sell, you're a commercial breeder, and you raise your,
00:31:55your, your weanling or yearling, with the idea that you're going
00:31:59to go to the sale and, and try to sell it, you know, and
00:32:03hopefully profitably, you know, if you breed to race, that horse
00:32:07will never see the auction place. And it's, it's, you know,
00:32:10bred, bred to go immediately into training and into the track
00:32:14to race on your back.
00:32:16You do a lot of pen hooking. What, what do you look for?
00:32:19Because when I see Brian Graves purchased or bred as a weanling,
00:32:26usually there's a pretty hefty yearling sales price attached to
00:32:30it six, nine months later. What do you look for? Can I pick your
00:32:34brains? Because you've done remarkably well pen hooking
00:32:37weanlings to yearlings and even ones that will be from a no
00:32:42name side that I've never heard of. I'm like, Oh, look, Brian's
00:32:45in control of this one. This one's going to look amazing. And
00:32:49it does. Like, what do you look for?
00:32:52I mean, I think the market conditions someone, you know, to
00:32:58to look for what, you know, most people want to buy, you know, so
00:33:04the market has conditioned me to like the looks of a certain
00:33:07type of horse. And, you know, over 2025, probably 30 years now
00:33:13of doing this, the market conditions you towards, you know,
00:33:18a certain type of horse that will run and perform as well. And
00:33:22so what I try to do is I find the perfect combination of the
00:33:26horse that I think will have a good chance to run, but also sell
00:33:31well. And so, you know, you just get conditioned to look for
00:33:33those kind of horses. Specifically, physically, you
00:33:37know, I like the type of horses that Wayne Lucas and Bob
00:33:44Baffert, you know, seem to give more looks to when I was showing
00:33:48them when I was a kid. And then, you know, certain market
00:33:53conditions as you go into the market just teach you to be more
00:33:57refined and what to stay away from. I like horses that tend to
00:34:02be on the leg with a certain amount of class and intelligence
00:34:09to their head. I like horses with sloping long necks and
00:34:13shoulders that have a really nice balanced top line into a
00:34:19nice strong hind quarter into a nice hip. And, you know, that
00:34:23also will walk and show you a good deal of action at the
00:34:26wall. You know, and I think that that's not surprising.
00:34:31Everybody likes this type of horses. So, you just have to
00:34:36kind of recognize what they look like when they're young and
00:34:39hairy and learn how that develops over time into
00:34:43something beautiful. I've only got one more question, Brian,
00:34:48and it involves the breed to sell versus breed to race
00:34:52dichotomy. It may not even be fair to cite the old days,
00:34:56right? The 1940s and 50s and 60s when you had the aristocratic
00:35:00families who were primarily breeding to race, whereas now
00:35:04the pendulum seems to have shifted to being primarily
00:35:08breed to sell. In your opinion, what are the differences in the
00:35:11types of horses that are being bred now in the breed to sell
00:35:17category as opposed to the old breed to race?
00:35:22You know, I can only speak for the types of horses that we're
00:35:26breeding here and that our clients are breeding here.
00:35:30You know, I think it's what everybody does. They go for as
00:35:34much sire power as they can, that they can make a case of
00:35:38for their mare. And, you know, I think that they, in modern
00:35:44times, the difference would be that they look for a lot of
00:35:47speed, you know, and they look for it on both sides of the
00:35:50equation, I think. And so that's probably the main
00:35:55difference between years past where there might have been more
00:35:58stamina and endurance. I think it's a natural reflex of
00:36:03current breeders and breeding to race or the commercial market
00:36:07to look for speed. Brian, just one quick question. I can't
00:36:14look at you or think about Brian Graves without thinking
00:36:17about your great late father, Bill, and what a wonderful man
00:36:21he was. Is there a day that goes by that you don't think
00:36:26about Bill? And what would he think right now about the state
00:36:30of the industry, if he's looking down from his golden
00:36:33cloud? Bill was a horse enthusiast to the end, so as
00:36:39long as there were horses, he was going to be enthusiastic.
00:36:44There is not a day goes by that I don't think about my dad or
00:36:47think about the principles that he had and try to
00:36:53improve something in our life, whether it be the stallions
00:36:58or the yearlings or the weanlings in any way, shape, or
00:37:02form. That's just the way he was. When he'd come by, he'd
00:37:05find something wrong, he'd find it pretty quick, and he'd tell
00:37:07you how to fix it. And so I've got Bill Graves. He's still
00:37:14right here, and he's still whispering in my ear all the
00:37:17time. What I do wish is that he could see the success that
00:37:24we're having. I wish that he could see some of these
00:37:28stallions deals that we're doing, and I know he would have
00:37:30gotten a big kick out of that, and I know he would have liked
00:37:33to have taken his experience in sales and been a part of that
00:37:38moving forward. But we still, like I say, we still have him
00:37:41spirit. Well, you're carrying on those principles and his
00:37:45influence with you to Gainesway. Congratulations on
00:37:48the success of the farm, the new stallions, and thanks for
00:37:52taking the time. And thanks for being a supporter of the TD
00:37:55and Riders Room. We appreciate it. We're happy to do it.
00:37:58Thanks. Thanks for having me. And the TD and Riders Room
00:38:01guests of the week, as we said, brought to you now by Gainesway
00:38:03Farm. You just heard Brian Graves talk about the four new
00:38:06stallions headed to Gainesway, and there was some news this
00:38:08morning about one of them. Resolute Racing's Jon Stewart,
00:38:11as we pointed out in the interview with Graves,
00:38:14announced Monday morning that he'd be sending two-time
00:38:17Breeders' Cup Philly and Mare sprint champion Good Night
00:38:20Olive to Seize the Gray, the 2024 Preakness winner who's
00:38:25standing his first year at stud at Gainesway in 2025.
00:38:28Stewart just purchased Good Night Olive for $6 million last
00:38:33November. Stewart said, we wanted to get this nailed down
00:38:36before Seize the Gray's book fills up. That's nice praise
00:38:40from Jon Stewart. And here's now more from Gainesway.
00:39:06PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point. It's
00:39:21excitement at every step. Roses for Denver just set a new
00:39:26track record. On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania
00:39:30paid over $28 million a year in Breeders' Awards, restricted
00:39:34races, and owner bonuses. Plus, PA Bread shined on the
00:39:37world's biggest stage. Just three states have bred more
00:39:40Breeders' Cup winners. Learn more at pabread.com. The TDN
00:39:45Writer's Room, also brought to you by our friends at the
00:39:48Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association. Save the date. The
00:39:52PHBA's annual Stallion Season Auction will be held January
00:39:5613th through the 19th. You can bid online. Just go to
00:40:00thoroughlybread.com. That's on the screen for you right there.
00:40:06There you see the website. You can keep checking back at
00:40:08pabread.com as well for an updated listing on available
00:40:13Stallions. So you visit thoroughlybread.com in order to
00:40:17register and also to obtain more information about the
00:40:20Stallion Season Auction. And of course, to learn more about
00:40:23the PA Bread program in general, you can go to pabread.com or
00:40:26you can call the number we tell you about, 610-444-1050.
00:40:32How do we segue that to the Kentucky Derby? Let me think.
00:40:36I'm not sure I'm that sharp, but we'll do that anyway.
00:40:39Guess who is the 13 to 1 individual favorite in Pool 2
00:40:44for the Kentucky Derby? Can you guess?
00:40:46Really?
00:40:47Yes.
00:40:49Wow. Now, obviously, we're talking about the $3.2
00:40:53million yearling named Barnes.
00:40:56Correct.
00:40:57Correct. Who broke his maiden last Wednesday, I believe it
00:41:00was, at Churchill Downs. Baffert ran that horse at Churchill
00:41:04Downs as his first starter at Churchill. He was actually
00:41:07present for the race, which was a nice touch. His first
00:41:11starter at Churchill Downs since, of course, the infamous
00:41:13ban of Churchill Downs after the Medina Spirit controversy.
00:41:17So what was your opinion, Zoe, about Barnes?
00:41:21Workmanlike. I think that's the only way I could put it is
00:41:25workmanlike. A little bit green. He overcame it all. It's
00:41:29almost like Bob has his quote playbook in his back pocket
00:41:34because when they crossed the wire, he simply pulled out his
00:41:37playbook and said he had flashbacks of the 1996 Kentucky
00:41:41Derby with Cavalier and Grindstone coming flying down
00:41:45because it was him stood next to D. Wayne Lucas. You couldn't
00:41:49write a movie script any better than this. You've got
00:41:52Bill Kastanien there in the paddock with him. You've got
00:41:56Bill Mudd. You've got all the powers that be at Churchill
00:41:59Downs. And then you've got Bob Baffert and D. Wayne Lucas
00:42:03standing together watching the race and they run one, too. I
00:42:05mean, this is a thing that movies are made of.
00:42:08And furthermore, Barnes is owned by Amber Zidan, the owner
00:42:12of Medina Spirit. I don't know if Amber was actually there or
00:42:15not, but I mean, the horse, look, I mean, you know, career
00:42:18debut buyer speed figure 87, which is very solid. It's you
00:42:22don't want it to be necessarily too fast. Sometimes horses, you
00:42:26know, will go the wrong direction if they have to run
00:42:29an unbelievably fast race. But I thought he showed good
00:42:33determination. Innovator, the Lucas horse, ran a heck of a
00:42:37race, made a clear lead, going five and a half furlongs. They
00:42:41separated ten and a half links away from the rest of the
00:42:44field. And Barnes was just a little bit more game than
00:42:47Innovator in the final 16th of a mile. Look, the time, let me
00:42:52spit that out, five and a half and 102.97. You might think
00:42:57that would be even faster than an 87 buyer speed figure, but
00:43:00the racetrack surface at Churchill Downs was very fast
00:43:04on Wednesday. But 87 was good enough. It's good enough,
00:43:08obviously, to make Barnes one of the early favorites,
00:43:11according to the bookmakers for the Kentucky Derby. I think
00:43:13that might be a little rich, but he's obviously bred to be a
00:43:18very good horse. And the only person, ironically, who wasn't
00:43:21there was Jimmy Barnes, whom he's named after. Really?
00:43:25Yeah. So Jimmy stayed home to take care of everything. And it
00:43:29was good. Bob should have been there. Like Bob had to be at
00:43:32Churchill Downs. So we'll see moving forward, Bob back on.
00:43:36But yeah, Barnes taking the win there, maiden special weight,
00:43:39going five and a half furlongs. The Clark, it just seems like
00:43:43Brian Hernandez and Kenny McPeak just continue winning
00:43:46races. They started off the year winning races, and then
00:43:49they carry on with rattle and roll. But that race was not run
00:43:52without some controversy. Yes. First of all, rattle and roll.
00:43:59I mean, he's a horse that McPeak thought highly enough
00:44:04about that he wanted to run him in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:44:08I mean, he tried to get him into the Breeders' Cup Classic,
00:44:11and he just wasn't able to do it. He'd only had one start in
00:44:182024 prior to the Clark, and that was in the Lucas Classic,
00:44:22where he ran in for the second consecutive year. He wasn't the
00:44:25favorite. He was nine to five, ran down a horse named Most
00:44:29Wanted along with Hit Show, a couple of good horses from the
00:44:33Brad Cox barn. And he did it very gamely. I mean, it was an
00:44:38eventful kind of race behind him. There was a disqualification
00:44:41involved there, but I thought rattle and roll was a fairly
00:44:45deserving winner, and now they're talking about bringing
00:44:48him back maybe next time out in the Pegasus World Cup.
00:44:52Hernandez becomes the second jockey in history to repeat the
00:44:56Derby Oaks-Clark double since 1884, and that was Isaac Murphy.
00:45:03It definitely puts an explanation, Mark, onto the
00:45:07point you've been making about Kenny McPeak for Trainer of the
00:45:10Year. Yeah, I think you can make a strong case for Kenny
00:45:13McPeak as Trainer of the Year. Like you said, we talked about
00:45:16that. It's not necessarily your prototype Trainer of the Year,
00:45:22which nowadays seems to be the trainer that's had the most
00:45:25purse money. That's either going to be in most years Chad
00:45:30Brown or Bob Baffert or Todd Pletcher or Brad Cox, but
00:45:33McPeak won the Derby Oaks double. He had Torpedo Anna, of
00:45:37course, who dominated the three-year-old Philly division
00:45:40and capped that season off with the win in the Breeders' Cup
00:45:42Distaff, and now he brings rattle and roll back on
00:45:45Thanksgiving weekend to win a grade one. McPeak has had a
00:45:49sensational year. I'm going to vote for him for Trainer of the
00:45:51Year, and it's not in any way, in my mind, any kind of a black
00:45:58mark against the other guys. It's just that he's had a
00:46:02remarkable, record-breaking type of campaign. Alright, we
00:46:07go east to west and we talk about Formidable Man and
00:46:11Michael McCarthy. Formidable Man taking down the grade one
00:46:15Hollywood Derby. He skipped the Twilight Derby and it looks
00:46:18like everything's grand when a plan comes together because he
00:46:22held off some good horses and was definitely much the best.
00:46:25And how about the connections, the City of Light connections
00:46:28here? Michael McCarthy campaigned for the Williams
00:46:31City of Light. He is the sire of Formidable Man. It all came
00:46:35full circle in the grade one Hollywood Derby. And Bill and
00:46:38Suzanne Warren, who of course also had St. Liam to win the
00:46:41Breeders' Cup Classic way back in the day. Look, Formidable
00:46:44Man showed a lot of game to us. It was a four-horse photo
00:46:48finish. He got a good trip. He was inside and tipped out when
00:46:51he needed to, but still, I mean, that's the third win in a row
00:46:54for Formidable Man, who is really, you know, putting his
00:46:57hat in the ring as a horse to be reckoned with now. He's just
00:46:59three-year-old, of course, Hollywood Derby as you move
00:47:02forward to his four-year-old season. And McCarthy, I didn't
00:47:05read his post-race quotes, but he's certainly aggressive, sort
00:47:12of like Kenny McPeak, in that he'll have no hesitation if he
00:47:15thinks Formidable Man is good enough to ship him, let's say,
00:47:17to Gulfstream Park for the Pegasus World Cup turf. I mean,
00:47:21that I don't think would be out of the realm of possibility.
00:47:25Not at all. And he was also very gracious in his post-race
00:47:28comments, which brings us in, and we're going to talk about
00:47:30Ben Cecil really quickly, who passed away just a few days ago.
00:47:34Ben Cecil was a stalwart here in Southern California, having
00:47:38been a young man coming over from England. He took over
00:47:42Rodney Rash's string when he was very young. And he's just a
00:47:46guy who epitomizes the true gentleman of the game that the
00:47:52sport is named after. Ben Cecil was a gentleman through and
00:47:56through, a guy who fought cancer for the last 10 years and
00:48:02always did it with a smile on his face. Ben never had a bad
00:48:05day. Just really, really sad. We're lucky in this sport, and
00:48:11I've covered a lot of sports, right, from the NFL on down, to
00:48:16have a group of people as a whole who are very pleasant and
00:48:21easy to deal with. I think it has a lot to do with the fact
00:48:25that training racehorses in particular can be so challenging
00:48:29and so frustrating and so many lows. You can win 25% and be
00:48:36considered a Hall of Fame-type trainer, losing 75% of the time.
00:48:40But Ben Cecil was one of those guys that you always, in my
00:48:46role in the media, going around and talking to trainers before
00:48:50any race, you always look forward to seeing, look forward
00:48:55to visiting at the barn because he was such, like you said, a
00:49:00gentleman and such a nice guy. And then when you just run into
00:49:04him in the grandstand or on the barn area when he didn't have a
00:49:08horse that you needed to talk to him about, he would always
00:49:12shout you down, call you down, and shake your hand. He was
00:49:16just a fantastic guy and a sad day.
00:49:19Thoughts out to Christy and the rest of his family as we
00:49:22celebrate Ben Cecil. Funeral arrangements are pending. Okay,
00:49:26grade one matriarch, not to Mr. Chad Brown. Sacred wish. It was
00:49:31an East Coast shipper for George Weaver. What did you think of
00:49:33that race?
00:49:35Look, I thought it was an outstanding race, which the
00:49:39matriarch typically would be. We talked last week about AG
00:49:45Bullitt and the fact that she would be a really tough filly to
00:49:49run down, mare to run down if she was able to, she's a filly,
00:49:52she'll be a mare soon, if she was able to control the pace,
00:49:56which she did and she controlled the pace in pretty
00:49:58reasonable fractions for a mile at Delmar. And yet Gina
00:50:04Romantica and Sacred Wish ran her down. And Sacred Wish ran
00:50:09her down at 12 to one. Gina Romantica fired big, AG Bullitt
00:50:14fired big, but Sacred Wish bouncing back from, I'd say the
00:50:19last time she won a race was an allowance race at Aqueduct in
00:50:23May. She'd been close, close in grade three competition four
00:50:26times in a row, but at 12 to one with Johnny B, she gets the
00:50:30job done in a grade one. Good for George Weaver and the
00:50:34owners.
00:50:34I didn't think there was any real excuse for Gina Romantica,
00:50:38did you?
00:50:38No.
00:50:39Johnny just got the jump.
00:50:40And she ran a good race.
00:50:42Yeah.
00:50:43She ran a really good race. You and I have talked about this
00:50:46and thoroughbred racing. And this really hit home with me
00:50:52when every four years or two years, when I cover the winter
00:50:55Olympics and the summer Olympics, right? Gold medal,
00:50:59silver medal, bronze medal. People are so excited when they
00:51:04win a silver or a bronze. A lot of times you can't tell the
00:51:07difference between someone who's finished second and third
00:51:11and someone who's won. And yet in horse racing, we're so
00:51:15fixated on the winner, on the winner's circle. And you get,
00:51:19you know, so many people are disappointed when they don't
00:51:21win. They run second, they run third. And this is one of those
00:51:25situations where, you know, they could be very proud of the
00:51:28way Gina Romantica won, very proud of the way A.G. Bullitt
00:51:31ran. They both ran great races, but on this particular day,
00:51:35they just weren't quite good enough.
00:51:37It's horse racing. If you ain't first, you're last.
00:51:41That seems to be the, you know, sort of the overriding
00:51:44philosophy, which I find especially interesting during
00:51:47those times when I'm doing the Olympics. And I'm like, wait a
00:51:50second, these guys are celebrating finishing third at
00:51:52a bronze medal.
00:51:54Maybe we should just give out medals instead of prizes. What
00:51:57do you think?
00:51:58Or have horse racing in the Olympics.
00:52:00Oh God, that would be amazing. We should work on that.
00:52:04All right. Do want to remind you that the TDN Writers Room is
00:52:07brought to you by XBTV. And this week's XBTV Work of the
00:52:11Week is Phil Serrano. Phil Serrano was last seen winning
00:52:15the big ass, we can say that on this podcast, the big ass
00:52:18Breeders' Cup dirt mile. And this is his second work back
00:52:22since that win. He worked five furlongs in 101 and one, and you
00:52:25can see his rider is not asking him at all. In fact, you know
00:52:29what? I was out there on the apron and I watched him go by
00:52:34me and I didn't even realize it was him. I walked back with
00:52:37John's assistant, Alex Persona, and I'm like, who's that? The
00:52:40guy in the orange. And he's like, that's the big horse, Phil
00:52:43Serrano. So he did look very good. He is now two for three
00:52:48since coming to the U.S. from Argentina, finishing second in
00:52:51the Pacific Classic. His next stop will be at Santa Anita,
00:52:55drum roll please, December 26th, opening day.
00:52:59You know, Zoe, I heard all of this about how much Gary Young,
00:53:03the clocker, loved Phil Serrano, how much John Sadler
00:53:07loved Phil Serrano, how much all these people in California
00:53:10loved Phil Serrano in the Breeders' Cup dirt mile. Why
00:53:12didn't I hear any of this before the race? They were
00:53:16saying it. I just apparently, I had my ears closed and I wasn't
00:53:19listening because you could have made a lot of money if you
00:53:23had some confidence in Phil Serrano. Well, my good friend
00:53:26Michelle Yu loved Phil Serrano all week. Here's another one.
00:53:30So she actually did make some money. And ironically, John
00:53:33Sadler was in Argentina this week looking for the next Phil
00:53:37Serrano. So we'll keep you posted on that.
00:54:00Everything you need to be informed. Be smart. Bet smart with XBTV.
00:54:11With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality
00:54:14racing year-round, there's never been a better time to reap
00:54:18the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky. Purse money
00:54:23in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per
00:54:27race. Outpacing California, Florida, and New York. Kentucky
00:54:32breads. Breed them. Raise them. Race them. We all win.
00:54:41The TD and Riders Room also brought to you by the KTOB, the
00:54:45Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association. Since
00:54:48we started this podcast 15-20 minutes ago, here are the
00:54:52horses that we've talked about already. We talked about Patch
00:54:55Adams and how impressive he was breaking his maiden on
00:54:58Saturday at Churchill Downs. We talked about Chasen, the
00:55:04half-sister to Eddie O'Mattock. We talked about Rattle and Roll
00:55:06who won the Clark. We talked about Formidable Man in the
00:55:10Hollywood Derby. We talked about Sacred Wish running down Gina
00:55:14Romantica to win the Matriarch. All five of those horses, in
00:55:19addition to the horses we're getting ready to talk about,
00:55:21have one thing in common. More than one, probably. They're all
00:55:23fast, but they all happen to be bred in Kentucky, and that is
00:55:29no accident. Kentucky breads. Breed them. Raise them. Race
00:55:33them. We all win. Bravo! That segment brought to you by
00:55:37Randy Moss. Fresh off the cuff, as we move on and talk about
00:55:42perhaps some more Kentucky breads. Goldenrod winner,
00:55:45Jockey Club winner. How good is good cheer? Very good. Yeah.
00:55:52She arguably may be better than Immersive, who of course won the
00:55:58Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies. Both happen to be trained by
00:56:02Brad Cox, owned and bred by Godolphin. They both happen to
00:56:06be now four for four lifetime. No good cheer maybe hasn't faced
00:56:12quite the level of competition as Immersive did, but close
00:56:16because the filly that good cheer beat in the Goldenrod was
00:56:19Quietside, the shortleaf stable filly, who also ran against
00:56:25Immersive and ran pretty well in the Breeders' Cup. Quietside
00:56:29had six links on the rest of the field, so it was a very
00:56:31strongly run race. Good cheers, four races now. Let me do the
00:56:36math. Thirteen, thirty, thirty-two and a half links of
00:56:39total winning margins. Back-to-back wins now on the
00:56:42Rags to Riches in the Goldenrod, and it's an embarrassment
00:56:45of riches right now, especially in the two-year-old filly
00:56:48division for Godolphin and Brad Cox. I mean, she'll be one of
00:56:51the finalists right for two-year-old champ. Obviously,
00:56:54Immersive will get it. Yeah, Immersive will get it just
00:56:57because she won the Breeders' Cup and good cheer didn't
00:56:59compete, but hey, you know, numbers wise, good cheer has
00:57:04run three races now of her four with a faster buyer speed
00:57:10figure than Immersive has ever run. So and it's going to be
00:57:13interesting to see how Brad keeps these separated because
00:57:16he'll have a full string at the fairgrounds. He'll have a
00:57:18full string at Oaklawn Park. He tends to keep most of his
00:57:22better three-year-olds, colts and fillies, stable at the
00:57:25fairgrounds because the weather is a little more predictable
00:57:29and a little more stable at the fairgrounds. You don't have
00:57:31the freeze, thaw, and mistraining that you have
00:57:34sometimes at Oaklawn, but he ships horses freely, his top
00:57:37three-year-olds, which we saw last year, back and forth
00:57:40between the two. So you know he's going to try to keep
00:57:43Immersive and good cheer separated. One will be focused
00:57:46primarily on the Oaklawn three-year-old filly races
00:57:49leading up to the Kentucky Oaks and the other one in New
00:57:51Orleans. You know somewhere that has good weather all
00:57:54winter long, just you know throwing it out there.
00:57:57Southern California, Brad Cox, if you're listening, we've got
00:58:00room out here for you just throwing that out there. Okay,
00:58:03who won the Jockey Club? I can't even remember. It's
00:58:06Goodolphin, of course. Again. Not trained by Brad Cox. This
00:58:10one trained by Owen Hardy, who's worked for Goodolphin for
00:58:13a long time. Nice to see Owen in the winner's circle with a
00:58:15Goodolphin two-year-old named First Resort, the son of Uncle
00:58:19Mo, who was six to one. He wasn't one of the favorites. He
00:58:22got the jump on Jonathan's Way headed to the stretch. He had a
00:58:26nice stalking trip sitting second, just about a length or
00:58:29so off the pace. Louie Saez, who also rode the Goodolphin
00:58:32filly good cheer in the Golden Rod, was on First Resort.
00:58:36Quickly, nice turn of foot to open up three lengths on
00:58:39Jonathan's Way. Jonathan's Way couldn't really cut into that
00:58:42margin too much. I mean, he was the logical favorite in the
00:58:45race and he ran well. Tistastic was third, but First Resort on
00:58:50this particular day was best. Look, we probably undersell
00:58:57what Goodolphin has done in the United States with their
00:59:04transition, in this country at least, from grass to dirt over
00:59:08the last 20-25 years or so. It's been remarkable how
00:59:13Goodolphin, when they decided to focus on breeding dirt horses
00:59:18for American racing, how dominant they have become. When
00:59:22you look at the Eclipse Awards for Champion Breeder, the
00:59:24Eclipse Awards for Champion Owner, they've recently been
00:59:27dominated by Goodolphin and Goodolphin is ending 2024 as
00:59:32fast as they started it. Well, let's give a shout out as well
00:59:35to trainer Owen Harty, who has trained for Goodolphin longer
00:59:39than probably Brad Cox has been training. He trained the dam.
00:59:43In fact, his last graded stakes winner, now you've reminded me
00:59:46who the winner was, was Fair Maiden, who won the grade one
00:59:49La Brea at 20-1 with Ricky Gonzalez. That was the last
00:59:53time Owen won a graded stake. He's got more air miles than you
00:59:57can swing a cat at. He goes backwards and forwards from
01:00:00Kentucky to Florida to California every single week,
01:00:05keeps two strings going and manages to do it with a smile
01:00:08on his face and some very good humor indeed. So props to a
01:00:13trainer who perhaps doesn't give the credit that he is
01:00:16deserved in Owen Harty. One of the good guys of the game.
01:00:20Alright, let's look forward and see what's happening this
01:00:23weekend. We've got a lot going on at Aqueduct and I know that
01:00:27Bill wanted to talk about Aqueduct and we'll start with
01:00:30perhaps the one that Bill wanted to talk about and Bookum
01:00:34Dano has won on Saturday in the grade two cigar mile. Is this a
01:00:40slam dunk with a rad riding? This is a good race. I wouldn't
01:00:45call it a slam dunk, but I definitely think that he's the
01:00:49horse to beat. I think probably the horse, Mulligan. Mulligan
01:00:55would be the one and Senor Buscador. Those two I think
01:00:59would be the ones that would be the biggest threats. Post time
01:01:02also. So let's add post time in there coming off the second to
01:01:05full Serrano in the Breeders' Cup dirt mile and a horse who
01:01:09just seems to run his race every time. So you see it's a
01:01:11loaded field, but Bookum Dano is just such a sharp horse around
01:01:17one turn. I think a one turn mile might be his best
01:01:24distance. He is a comfort behinder. He's not a sheer
01:01:27speed type horse. When he gets beat, it's usually because
01:01:30someone gets the jump on him. But remember the last time
01:01:33Bookum Dano ran a one turn mile was in Saudi Arabia when he
01:01:38separated with Forever Young and Forever Young was life and
01:01:43death as they like to say to run him down and just got there
01:01:46to beat him by a head leaving Ben Tornado six lengths in
01:01:50their wake and we know how good Ben Tornado has turned out to
01:01:52be after that. That was a one turn mile. This is his first
01:01:55one turn mile since then. I don't like the post number one
01:01:59post necessarily, but he's not really a close up stalker. So
01:02:05he'll be in the back half of the field probably and I read
01:02:09since he's I read probably he'll find a way to work him
01:02:12work himself out. I think he deserves to be the favorite,
01:02:15but as a three year old running against some of these horses
01:02:18like Mulligan and post time, it's not I wouldn't call it a
01:02:21slam dunk. Can we do a head to head between you and
01:02:25Bill, his favorite horse Bookum Dano, your favorite horse
01:02:29Senor Buscador. I will actually donate the mythical bottle of
01:02:34wine you owe me to the winner of this head to head battle.
01:02:40It's mythical at this point, isn't it? It's been I even
01:02:43forgot what we were betting about. I think I was I was you
01:02:46were third and I was fourth or something like that, but you
01:02:49won. Yeah, that's fine with me, but although I don't think
01:02:53Senor Buscador is quite as sharp as Bookum Dano is.
01:02:57Senor Buscador, by the way, was second in the cigar mile last
01:03:01year. He was beaten a long way by horse name Hoist the Gold,
01:03:05who was Dallas Stewart, really red hot at that time, drew off
01:03:08and won that race by four and a half lengths. It was a fast
01:03:10rail that day on a muddy track at at Aqueduct, which didn't
01:03:14play into Senor Buscador's strengths, but wouldn't it be
01:03:17cool to see Senor Buscador if indeed he's he's going to stud,
01:03:21which they say he probably will, to go out with a win in
01:03:24the cigar mile. That would be cool and maybe even, you know,
01:03:27some of those other races to come overseas. It would. I'll
01:03:30give you the winner right now. It's going to be locked. All
01:03:32right, let's move on the race before the grade two Demoiselles
01:03:37State going a mile and an eighth. Do you have any real
01:03:40opinion in here? No, you know, it's when I before we did this
01:03:46podcast and I was looking at at Good Shear, Brad Cox,
01:03:51Immersive, Brad Cox. So I went on my my database and I decided,
01:03:57you know, what are their good? I know he's got a lot. What are
01:04:00the good two-year-olds as Brad Cox have? And lo and behold,
01:04:03this filly pops up. I didn't even know anything about her.
01:04:06Muhemma, who is the Shadwell filly who gets the rail in the
01:04:10Demoiselle stretching out from one turn to a mile and an
01:04:13eighth like most of these horses are. But Muhemma, it's
01:04:17by Munnings out of a tap at mare. She's two for two
01:04:20lifetime by a combined 13 length margin. She's low 80s
01:04:27buyer speed figures, which tops the list of all the horses
01:04:31that are running here. So it looks like Brad Cox is going to
01:04:34be in a pretty good spot to get another graded stakes win with
01:04:37yet another two-year-old filly in my opinion. One race before
01:04:41as we're going backwards here is race number seven, the grade
01:04:45two Remsen stakes. We already talked about the Kentucky
01:04:48Derby. Does this still have points? I can't remember.
01:04:51Does are there points in the Remsen? I don't know for sure.
01:04:55Yeah, maybe. Who do you like in here? You got Tucks draws the
01:05:00rail for Billy Mott, who seems to be winning everything inside.
01:05:03Owen's got one in their poster. He's two for two. Another
01:05:07Munnings. Numbers wise, Key Waden is a very, very interesting
01:05:14horse. He's a Chad Brown horse owned by OXO Equine of Larry
01:05:20Best and Key Waden ran down a Mark Cassie horse, a very good
01:05:25Mark Cassie horse by the name of Volt. I say ran him down. He
01:05:29actually made the lead on Volt in a very fast maiden race at
01:05:33Aqueduct back in the second week in October. Now, Key
01:05:37Waden already was touting himself at that point. He had
01:05:42lost in a very good maiden race to a horse named Tip Top Thomas
01:05:46who came back and ran well in stakes company with an 85 buyer
01:05:49speed figure. He was one to five when he ran against Bolt in
01:05:53that maiden race at Aqueduct and he won it. Volt was 10 links
01:05:57ahead of the third place finisher with a 91 buyer speed
01:06:01figure among the fastest buyers that we've seen on the list of
01:06:05top 10 or so fastest buyers that we've seen from two-year-olds
01:06:08this year. So, I think Key Waden is going to be a pretty
01:06:11solid favorite in here. Owned by Larry Best. He's obviously a
01:06:15son of Instagrand. Yeah. One of bests. Probably the best horse
01:06:20best as has ever had. Studley Do-Right who was the Nashua
01:06:25winner is probably going to be the second choice in here but
01:06:28yeah, on paper, it's probably not the best Nashua but or
01:06:32Rimson rather but you know, you don't really know these are
01:06:36improving two-year-olds until you see a horse like Key Waden
01:06:39and see how he looks. He may come out of this race being one
01:06:42of the Kentucky Derby favorites. You don't know. He
01:06:44might. Race number four is the Gopher Wand. I'm going to skip
01:06:47over that one and bring it back to Southern California as we do
01:06:51have the grade two Starlet on Saturday as well. Looks like
01:06:56it's Bob's got quite a few in there. Tanma. Bucket with a
01:06:59twist will be interesting going forward for Phil D'Amato.
01:07:02Should she run? Obviously, entries are not out yet. We're
01:07:04recording this on Monday. Noonie's in there. Maybe
01:07:08Practical Dream. A nice filly of Bob's called Cipriani. She's
01:07:12two for two. So, we'll see who goes forward in the Starlet.
01:07:15One of the last graded stakes of the year. Yeah, this is this
01:07:18is my favorite time of the year, Zoe, when it comes to you
01:07:23know, October, November, December, not just the
01:07:25Breeders' Cup either because you see so many nowadays
01:07:29especially of these quality two-year-olds that are just now
01:07:33getting into gear and they're being unveiled like you can
01:07:37look at the Saturday card at Churchill Downs on the
01:07:40undercard of the Golden Rod and the Kentucky Jockey Club and
01:07:43the entire day was nothing but two-year-old races and there
01:07:46were all sorts of well-bred horses that ran fast that look
01:07:52really, really good. You combine that with what you see
01:07:54with Baffert's Horses on the West Coast with Barnes who we
01:07:58saw on Wednesday. You get some horses in New York like
01:08:01Key Waden. You can make a list of about 25 or 30 two-year-olds
01:08:05that have looked really good in Maiden or Allowance Company
01:08:09that if they continue to develop, you know, could be
01:08:12legitimate Kentucky Derby type horses and it just becomes fun
01:08:16to follow this time of year and these races on the West Coast
01:08:19that you're talking about this next weekend are just part of
01:08:21the mix. Isn't it funny how times have changed because I
01:08:25can remember 10, 15 years ago, salivating over the DRF in
01:08:30April at Keeneland looking forward to the two-year-old
01:08:34races in April because that's where we were going to find our
01:08:37derby horse. You can't find one now in April. There's no shot.
01:08:42They're not running and a lot of times they don't run at
01:08:44Saratoga either. A lot of times they're not ready to run even
01:08:47in August at the Saratoga meet. It seems like just more and
01:08:51more lately trainer because the horses are more likely race
01:08:53than ever before. They go into the Kentucky Derby with four
01:08:56lifetime starts. Sometimes three lifetime starts used to
01:09:00be that would be a black mark against horses. Trainers would
01:09:02try to avoid that at all costs. In the old days, if you saw a
01:09:05horse with only four lifetime starts going into the derby,
01:09:07something bad happened, right? I mean, the horse either got
01:09:10really sick or was injured. There was some negative
01:09:14explanation as to why the horse was that inexperienced. Now,
01:09:17it's almost like trainers prefer that as opposed to
01:09:21having more and more races in a more robust campaign. So, they
01:09:24don't get started sometimes until September, October,
01:09:27November. It's a good job. Bill's not here. He'd be having
01:09:30a heart attack right now. The TDN Writer's Room brought to
01:09:34you by West Point Thoroughbreds which got a big win on that
01:09:38Saturday card at Churchill Downs in the Ed Brown Stakes
01:09:41with their three-year-old Hardspun Colt named Keep It
01:09:44Easy. Keep It Easy won the Ed Brown by five lengths over the
01:09:47four to five favorite tough catch despite breaking a little
01:09:50slowly from the starting gate. Nice turn of foot at the top of
01:09:53the stretch. Keep It Easy now joins Bullard and Sandman on
01:09:57the early radar for the Kentucky Derby for West Point
01:10:00which owns the Colt along with Vinny Viola, St. Elias Stable,
01:10:03and CJ Thoroughbreds. To learn more about West Point, you can
01:10:07visit them online at westpointtb.com. All the
01:10:13thrills. Fraction of the bills.
01:10:21Experience the power of the partnership.
01:10:27Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the
01:10:30highest level of thoroughbred racing. West Point
01:10:35Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:10:38Visit westpointtb.com. I think we're done. That is it for this
01:10:45week's edition of the TDN Writer's Room for myself, Zoe
01:10:48Capman, from Randy Moss, for our Games Way Guests of the
01:10:51Week, Mr. Brian Graves, Katie Petruniak, Sue Finley, Anthony
01:10:56LaRocca, and Aliyah LaRocca. I think I've got everybody in
01:10:59there for Lucy the dog, for Doodle over there sleeping, and
01:11:03everybody else. We'll see you next time. Cheers, Randy.
01:11:06Cheers.