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00:00:00For the love of the horse. For generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome back. Here we are with our first TDN Writer's Room podcast of 2025. My name is
00:00:34Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, and it's good to be back.
00:00:39It's very good to be back. I'm Zoe Cab. I'm with First Racing and XBTV. Are we done saying
00:00:46Happy New Year? It seems like we should be done with that, right?
00:00:50All right, let me scratch off Happy New Year here. No, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports. Before
00:00:58we get started, one quick update. When we last taped this podcast in December, I recall ranting
00:01:04about many things, but included was the lack of availability of stewards' head-on replays for the
00:01:10Breeders' Cup races. Not the number one most pressing issue in racing, but an oversight.
00:01:13As of about the second week in December, those head-on replays have now been posted on the
00:01:19various replay sites for horseplayers to see and utilize. So whether it was the Breeders' Cup
00:01:24Del Mar, the Jockey Club, Equibase, DRF, Roberts Communications, or any combination thereof, props
00:01:31to whoever made that happen for the horseplayers. It was me. It was me. I told you.
00:01:36Zoe, way to go. Your Christmas present. Happy Christmas.
00:01:40Well, it just goes to show you when Zoe talks, people listen.
00:01:43That's it. There you go. We knew that. Now everybody does.
00:01:47Guys, it's funny. It's only the first week in January, and normally you wouldn't think
00:01:51that there would be much going on quite yet Kentucky Derby-wise. But actually,
00:01:55last weekend was a pretty busy weekend on the road to the Kentucky Derby with four
00:02:00graded—actually, they weren't all graded stakes races—but four stakes races that were preps for
00:02:04the Kentucky Derby. Let's get right to the new phenomenon, the new horse of the century,
00:02:10et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Let that hype machine begin. Barnes, $3.2 million purchased
00:02:16by Amor Zidane, trained by Bob Baffert, looked very good in the San Vicente.
00:02:21Even though it was a small field, as they all seem to be for these three-year-old races,
00:02:25in Santa Anita, beat some good horses in Bullard, got a 94 speed rating, and a combination of
00:02:31Baffert going back to the Derby, presumably, if the horse stays healthy, the $3.2 million,
00:02:37and the fact that this horse can flat-out run, he looks like, again, if he stays healthy,
00:02:43he's going to be the story of the Derby. I can't poke any holes in him, Zoey Cadman.
00:02:47He looks like the real deal, and I bet you Bob Baffert can't wait to get him to the
00:02:52Churchill Downs starting gate, along with the four or five other big horses that he has.
00:02:56Well, let's not forget, he's already been in the Churchill Downs starting gate
00:03:01as Bob's first runner at Churchill in multiple years. He didn't really look that spectacular
00:03:07breaking his maiden, but he sure as hell looked good the other day. I mean, he ripped off quarters
00:03:14like you wouldn't believe, finishing his final three-eighths in like 35 flat. He was very,
00:03:21very impressive. I can remember looking at him at the sale, and he struck me as a big hip,
00:03:27very intelligent, muscular-looking horse. He's just beautiful, and he's basically a Bob Baffert
00:03:34family, isn't he? Even the mare he's out of is by American Pharaoh. She was unplaced in two stars.
00:03:40This is her first foal. He's done everything right. He was a $775,000 R&A at the Fazard-Tipton
00:03:49sale, but he's good. He's extremely good, but Bob's over the hype already. I actually went by
00:03:55the barn to see if I could talk to Jimmy yesterday, and they're like, no, no more interviews.
00:04:01We're done. We named him after Jimmy. We're not talking. Look what happened to Moose last year.
00:04:06The hype train started there. He said, and see what Moose did. We're not talking about it. Go
00:04:11down, take a still shot of him. Have a good look at him. Mom's the word. So he goes, and take a
00:04:17look at Rodrigo's, which we'll get to in just a moment as well while you're at it. So he was super,
00:04:22super duper impressive. Well, there's a good reason for Bob being that way. There's also
00:04:28life is good, right? As we're sitting here taping this, it's all well and good to talk about Barnes
00:04:34and how excited Bob is to maybe get him to Churchill House. We're taping this on January
00:04:39the 7th. A whole lot can go wrong between now and the first Saturday in May, but I share your
00:04:47analysis about the difference between Barnes and his handpicked debut at Churchill Downs and the
00:04:55difference between him this past weekend. I mean, he won his debut. I thought he was somewhat
00:05:02underwhelming, especially compared to the hype and what they paid for him. But did he take a big
00:05:09step forward in his second start? Looked really, really good. So it's going to be an exciting
00:05:15prospect to watch, but there's a long list of Bob Baffert horses and some of whom I'm sure
00:05:21we haven't even seen run yet that we'll be talking about in future podcasts.
00:05:26Well, so far as I wouldn't call him a late bloomer, but a horse that was not in anybody's
00:05:33list for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile or whatnot. On the same day that he won with Barnes, he had a
00:05:39TDN rising star and a horse by the name of Rodriguez, who was it was actually his second
00:05:44career start. First time out, he was second behind Baffert's Romanesque, who came back to
00:05:49be second in the San Felipe behind Barnes. And, you know, this was sort of a race where he too
00:05:55made a statement. He won by seven lengths, a very easy win. You know, it's fun. We're right back to
00:06:01where Bob Baffert used to be before all the nonsense and the suspensions and whatnot.
00:06:05He's got five or six very good three year olds as it is right now. Randy said he's probably got two
00:06:11or three more in the barn that he hasn't even run yet. Everything's back to normal with Bob
00:06:15Baffert. Can he win this year's Kentucky Derby? Of course he can. Can he lose? Of course he can.
00:06:20But he is certainly going to be a major road, a major figure on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:25Randy, what did you think of Rodriguez? Very, very impressive. Started off his
00:06:30career in a one mile maiden race against a pretty good bunch of horses that included a half brother
00:06:36to Mage and one of the best maidens in California right now, a horse called Rank from the Doug
00:06:41O'Neill barn. The same day, later in the card, a horse that's considered to be a Santa Anita
00:06:50handicap contender by the name of Miramotti, a four year old, ran an allowance race at the
00:06:55same distance. And Rodriguez finished his mile in .24 seconds faster than Miramotti did.
00:07:04Now, anytime you can compare, even later in the year, when you can compare a three-year-old
00:07:10to a very talented older horse and they can run comparable times in similar races,
00:07:16it's a feather in their cap. But when you're talking about a January three-year-old
00:07:21with a buyer speed figure of 101, winning his maiden by seven lengths and running a faster time
00:07:28than a horse like Miramotti, this horse could wind up being something special, Zoe.
00:07:33And that was a revised buyer speed figure as well, correct?
00:07:37Yes, correct.
00:07:37Wasn't it initially like 89 or something? Listen,
00:07:41Rodriguez was pretty darn amazing and no one expected it. 485,000 as a yearling. He looked a
00:07:46little bit big and gangly as a yearling. I can remember looking at him, but he's a May 20th
00:07:53foal. I mean, he's very, very young indeed. And for him to put forth that kind of performance,
00:08:01I gave myself a guided tour around Bob's barn with Bob following behind and we had a little
00:08:08chat about all the horses going around. I mean, you'd love to just sneak a secret camera in there
00:08:13and listen to Bob, but he's beautiful and he's a very kind horse. He's kind of got this big frame
00:08:20on him. And hey, let us not forget, Authentic is a Derby winner, but Authentic won the Derby
00:08:26in September. If it was in May, I don't believe that Authentic would have won the Derby.
00:08:32He had time to mature over the course of the summer. Now, I'm not saying that's the same
00:08:37with Rodriguez, but he's already behind the eight ball being a May 20th foal. He did everything
00:08:42right. He's a beautiful horse and we'll have to see what happens. And again, like you said,
00:08:48Baeza, a very nice half-brother to Mage and Doorknock right behind him. He's knocking on
00:08:53the door and there's good things to come from him as well. They paid 1.25 million for him trained
00:08:58by John Sheriffs. So the other three-year-old prep races didn't get quite the acclaim and
00:09:03deservedly so with Barnes's win. But I'm still in the rider mode. I like the human interest stories.
00:09:10There's a good one out of the Smarty Jones stakes. Lonnie Briley is a 72-year-old trainer,
00:09:16has never had a graded stakes win in his life. He has a horse by the name of Cold Battle,
00:09:22who started his career in a five-and-a-half furlong race at Evangeline Downs. The same day
00:09:28that Bob Baffert won with a $3.2 million purchase, this horse Cold Battle won as a $70,000 purchase
00:09:36ridden by Juan Vargas, who has won a couple of graded stakes races in his career. But again,
00:09:41as Randy pointed out, January 7th, who knows where this horse is going to go. But Randy,
00:09:47these horses come from sort of the other side of the tracks. I always get a big kick out of them.
00:09:52I wish this horse well. Is he as good as Barnes and probably eight other Baffert horses? Probably
00:09:58not. But I think it's a cool story. He seems like a nice fellow. He's been around forever,
00:10:03used to be the farm manager for John Franks. I'll sort of be rooting for him on the road
00:10:07to the Kentucky Derby, which looks like he'll go to the Rebel Stakes next.
00:10:11Very cool story. Also a very frustrating story for me. When Cold Battle won the springboard mile
00:10:21at Remington Park, which he won right before taking the Smarty Jones, right?
00:10:26I didn't really look at the race, look at the past performances beforehand. And when the race
00:10:31was over, I actually went back that night and saw the results and said, let me watch the replay.
00:10:36Okay, fine. Oh, Cold Battle. Okay. Where did he come from? Oh, he won the Jean Lafitte Futurity.
00:10:41I'll go back and watch the Jean Lafitte and see what he looked like in the Jean Lafitte. Holy cow.
00:10:48Anybody that has access to replays, go back and watch the Jean Lafitte at Delta Downs and tell
00:10:56me how in the hell that horse could be almost seven to one in the springboard mile. It was
00:11:03unbelievable. He blew the first turn completely and dropped back to last. He made an Arazi type
00:11:10move on the second turn and blew to the lead. He bolted down the stretch and went way out past the
00:11:17middle of the racetrack, almost lost the lead, which he had like a three length lead, almost
00:11:21lost it. Got him straightened up again. He came back again, opened up at the finish, and he still
00:11:27got like a 76 buyer speed figure that could have been a few points higher and was one of the best
00:11:32speed figures going in just on that, going into the springboard mile. I would have bet everything
00:11:38in my pocket on that horse at Remington Park if I had been paying attention before the race and
00:11:44had gone back and watched the Jean Lafitte Futurity. Now, is he going to be a Kentucky
00:11:49Derby winner or even in the Kentucky Derby? There's a lot of water under the bridge between
00:11:55now and then. And Manny, by the way, very good job saying holy cow. Yeah, I wanted to say something
00:12:01else. The cow would follow the holy. But you do realize this is a family show. So congratulations.
00:12:08Yes. I'll just go. Guns loaded. We're going to talk to trainer Jose DiMaggio. I want to talk
00:12:13about Lonnie Briley, too. Oh, OK. I'm sorry, Zoe. I got caught. He still threw me off with his holy
00:12:19cow. I didn't know. I forgot to go to you. Go. I mean, it's a great story, isn't it? I mean,
00:12:25this is a guy who in his career, he's been training since ninety one, has never won more
00:12:29than twenty one races in one year. And that was his best year was last year. He's already halfway
00:12:35to the Derby. Right. He got 10 points for the springboard mile. He picks up 10 points in that
00:12:40race. So he's already got 20. Wouldn't that be a cool story if he got there? And he and he manages
00:12:46to ship. He obviously needs to take his jockey with him because Juan Vargas has only ridden him
00:12:51three times. All three of them are winners. So he needs to stay on him. Evangeline, Kentucky
00:12:56Downs, Keeneland, Delta, Remington, Oklahoma Park. Take Vargas and perhaps we'll see him in
00:13:02the Derby. But he's got 20 points. He's just got to stay healthy. And whether they run him next in
00:13:06the southwest or the rebel, you can count on one of the Bob Baffert top three year olds to be in
00:13:12that race as well. So that's what they've got looking ahead for Cole Battle. OK, so before I
00:13:18so rudely interrupted Zoe, I was going to say, what about the other two races? I don't really
00:13:23have anything to say about either the mucho macho man stakes won by guns loaded, although
00:13:27we are going to hear from trainer Jose D'Angelo in the Gainesway guest of the week segment.
00:13:33He did not get a very good buyer number, which I know Randy might want to talk about only a 79.
00:13:38Then the Jerome horse, but you know, Cyclone State won to get an 84 buyer number. Can they
00:13:43make the Derby? Sure, anything can happen, but I don't think they're cracking anybody's top 10
00:13:47list anytime soon. I concur. Yeah, I was, you know, we'll hear more, obviously, as you said,
00:13:55from Jose D'Angelo, and he's got a different take on guns loaded finish in the mucho macho man,
00:14:01which wasn't very visually impressive at all to the wire. You'll hear Jose talking about that a
00:14:07little bit later. I was a little bit more impressed with Cyclone State in the Jerome than I was with
00:14:13guns loaded to the mucho macho man, but neither really are going to be on my short list at this
00:14:18point. The interesting thing about Cyclone State, Chad Summers always seems to come up with one
00:14:24horse every year, every year, just to keep him in everyone's mind. Cyclone State comes in, Al Gold,
00:14:32of course, part of the ownership there, bred by Alan Poindexter, who continues to breed
00:14:37pretty good Iowa breads. I mean, who to thunk it, right? Every Alan Poindexter's an Iowa bread,
00:14:42and they're good, good horses. This one purchased for just $70,000 and looks like he's headed to
00:14:48Saudi. And we'll see. Saudi, perhaps he's planning on winning the Saudi Derby and then coming back
00:14:56for the Kentucky Derby. I don't know. It's Chad. You never know which way he's going to go.
00:15:00That sounds like a bold Chad Summers move, doesn't it? To go to Saudi for the big money. Yeah,
00:15:05good for him. All right. So as Randy mentioned, on January 7th, my colleague T.D. Thornton,
00:15:10you see him sometimes on the podcast, came out with this top 12 list for the Kentucky Derby.
00:15:16He likes to get it out early, and he is very outward on his opinion, out there on his opinions.
00:15:22Now, I do the Oaks one, and the way I do it is I kind of look at it as like the morning line
00:15:28point at the Oaks. If so-and-so like Immersive is going to be the favorite,
00:15:32I'm going to make that horse number one, even though I may or may not love the horse.
00:15:36T.D., he likes to think outside the box, that's for sure. Boy, so his number one is Resort. Is
00:15:44that the name of the horse? First Resort. First Resort, okay, who won the Kentucky Jockey Club.
00:15:51And I got to admit this, maybe this makes me look bad. His number two is a horse by the name of
00:15:56Sandman. I had to look him up. I never heard of him. And then finally, the superstar, the next
00:16:03American Pharoah, the next Justify, the next Seabiscuit Barnes rated third. I know what T.D.'s
00:16:09trying to do here. He's trying to think outside the box, come up with some wise guy sleeper horses.
00:16:14When I do these things, he's got Citizen Bull, a Bamford horse. We haven't even talked about
00:16:19the Breeders' Cup Juvenile fourth. But T.D., what are you thinking, my friend?
00:16:25Well, I'm guessing that T.D. puts out his top 12 for the Kentucky Derby on the first weekend in
00:16:32January, because he's asked to do that by the bosses at TDN. We talked about Zoe and I giving
00:16:38our Derby picks before the podcast here, and we were like, no, don't think so. No, not going to
00:16:45go there. Not in early January. I think Zoe would concur. I am a fan of good reasoned analysis.
00:16:57Whether or not you agree with T.D. about First Resort or Sandman being one and two,
00:17:03when you read the stuff that he wrote that goes along with his top 12, okay. He really has done
00:17:13a lot of thought, really has done a lot of digging below the surface that a lot of people
00:17:18wouldn't do. And hey, I mean, he makes some pretty good points about those two horses.
00:17:24T.D.'s got balls. He has cojones, and I love it. I love it. I mean, wouldn't it be amazing
00:17:31if Owen Harty won the Kentucky Derby with First Resort? I mean,
00:17:35why not? That horse looked good. And like you said, it's well thought out. It's well written.
00:17:41It's right here in today's T.D.N. I suggest you have a look, go back, watch the race replay,
00:17:47because First Resort won that race like a good thing. Sandman was a $1.2 million, tap it,
00:17:54sold. I think it was OBS April, and Tom McCrocklin sold him. He was one of the gallopers,
00:18:01and he was beautiful, big, gray. He was out of the Lothenbock dispersal, I do believe.
00:18:07And he just galloped around there. He didn't breeze, and he's continued to
00:18:11incrementally get a little bit better. So yeah, good for T.D.
00:18:18Man, you make me look like the bad guy here.
00:18:22They were like, hey, you guys going to rip T.D.? No, no. I mean, I thought it was very good,
00:18:28solid, interesting analysis.
00:18:30He makes some very good points, and I would never rip T.D. He does an excellent job.
00:18:35He just has a different way of thinking when it comes to this, as do a lot of other people,
00:18:39myself included. That's all.
00:18:40And he's got cojones.
00:18:43He does. Now we're done talking about T.D.'s cojones. Let's talk about the T.D.N.,
00:18:50and the T.D.N. Writers Room is brought to you each and every week by Keeneland. Make plans
00:18:56to attend the three-day January sale, which is held from January the 13th to the 15th,
00:19:01and I promise you guys, it's planning to warm up there right now.
00:19:05They're blanketed in a sea of ice right now, but it's starting to thaw out.
00:19:10The Keeneland January Horses of All Ages Sale is noted for high-quality broodmare prospects
00:19:16and short yearlings, and for being among the final opportunities for breeders to obtain
00:19:21stock as the breeding season nears. We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:19:32For quality at every level.
00:19:36For accomplished collector's items.
00:19:39For breeding's strongest foundation.
00:19:42For champions in the making.
00:19:45For new year opportunities.
00:19:47Look to January.
00:19:50The Keeneland January Horses of All Ages Sale, beginning Monday, January 13th.
00:20:00It's now that time of the podcast for our fastest horse of the week, brought to you
00:20:03by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm, and in particular, this sire, Too Fast. No, wait.
00:20:09Too Phils. Too Phils is his name. In case you've been living under a rock, Too Phils
00:20:16had a hell of a three-year-old year, right? He won the Jeff Ruby stakes in the fastest time
00:20:20since 2002, the highest Ragazin Derby prep number in 2023, 105 buyer when he was second in the
00:20:30Kentucky Derby, the highest figure in 16 years, won the Ohio Derby in its fastest time since it
00:20:35was made a mile in an eighth race. Now Too Phils standing stud at Windstar Farm, and the punchline
00:20:40to all this, the best part of it all, you get all that for Too Phils, just $10,000 fee for Too
00:20:49Phils. Want to see more? You can watch the Too Phils round table. I wasn't asked to be on the
00:20:54Too Phils round table. Why not? You can do that by visiting windstarfarm.com and you can navigate
00:21:00to the stallion page of Too Phils. Okay. Fastest horse of the week. A horse that we were talking
00:21:08about roughly about this time last year, maybe a little bit later, as a triple crown candidate,
00:21:15didn't pan out, got a lot of time off, came back this past, at this meeting at the fairgrounds,
00:21:23and this past weekend, a horse named Hall of Fame, owned by Coolmore, trained by Steve Asmussen,
00:21:30the son of Gunrunner, made the second start in his comeback and allowance race at a mile
00:21:35and a sixteenth, won it in a cakewalk wire to wire with a buyer speed figure of 103. The horse
00:21:42is now two for two since he's been brought back to the races, and almost certainly now you can
00:21:49look for Hall of Fame to show up next in one of those mile and a sixteenth stakes races for older
00:21:54horses at the fairgrounds, and right now he is clicking on all cylinders. Our fastest horse of
00:22:00the week, a name from the past, Hall of Fame. Welcome in now the Gainesway Guest of the Week,
00:22:09Jose D'Angelo, and Jose, welcome, thanks for joining us. Happy New Year and all that, and
00:22:14you've only been in this country for five years, yet you've already climbed the heights of the
00:22:19sport, running in some of the biggest races in the country, running in big races overseas, etc.
00:22:24Did you ever imagine it would happen this quickly and this easily for you?
00:22:28Yes, thank you Bill, very happy to be here with you guys. Yes, I arrived to USA in 2019,
00:22:37you know, I'm very happy about the results that we are getting here, you know, I'm literally living
00:22:44the dream here because, you know, I came from Venezuela with so many goals and many dreams,
00:22:52and of course your main goal is to go to the derby, like every horseman, for example,
00:23:00but you know, to go to the derby you have to go step by step, win races, let the people know you,
00:23:09go to stakes, make your horse, make the points. It's a long way to arrive here,
00:23:16and probably you're gonna be in the derby in 40 years, 30 years, you never know.
00:23:21Some people have a lot of talent, like everybody, like jockeys, trainers, owners,
00:23:34breeders, some people don't win the derby, but you have to make your name, build your,
00:23:40you know, the people trust in you to arrive there. So, you know, last year we went to
00:23:48Ascot, that is five furrows on the grass, it's short on the grass, we went to Saudi,
00:23:55and you know, I feel like everything that we are doing here, because I cannot talk
00:24:02under just my name, I have to talk under my team, my father, me, my guys, my assistants,
00:24:11everybody, because it's not just Jose D'Angelo, you know, like to run horses you need to have a
00:24:18big team, you need a big team, and everybody works for win, because in horse racing, like,
00:24:26the small details make the big things. It's not like, you know, like, for example, a horse is a
00:24:34animal, a beast, like, but when they don't eat, they are telling you, hey, it's something,
00:24:39something is wrong with them. So, you know, I'm very, very grateful about God and life,
00:24:47about the horses that we are getting here. I'm very just, my goal now is, like, keep winning
00:24:53races, try to go to the top level, and I'm very sure that pretty soon we're going to be on all
00:24:59the races that we want to run, like Breers Cup Classic, Kentucky Derby, Dubai World Cup, Ascot,
00:25:04you know, I just want to win all the races that I can.
00:25:08Well, Jose, it's been a whirlwind for you already, as you mentioned all the places you've
00:25:14gone to in just such a short, short time. You mentioned your team. Is it more specifically
00:25:21your father, who has been with you every day, Kikiko, and he's a strong presence in the barn?
00:25:28What does he do in your barn?
00:25:30Yes, I learned everything from my father. He was champion in Venezuela. He won
00:25:36a lot, tons of great ones over there, leading trainers over there. I feel like the team that
00:25:46we make is a strong team because he let me go out with my horses. You know, the heart of the barn
00:25:55is him. Here in Florida, we make the babies here. When we got the two-year-old, we started training
00:26:02him. He has a lot of experience with that, so I can go to Saratoga. I can go to Kingdom, you know,
00:26:12and I know that my horses still are probably better than my care with him. I saw him working
00:26:21stronger with me than when he worked for himself. So, you know, we make a good team here,
00:26:32and he's doing excellent.
00:26:36So, Jose, we could spend the whole podcast just talking about your 2024,
00:26:41right? From Royal Ascot, you won a stakes at Saratoga, you went to Saudi,
00:26:46you won your first grade one at Kentucky Downs in a $2 million race with Howard Walowicz,
00:26:51you were second in the Breeders' Cup Sprint with Ben Tornado, so many highlights.
00:26:56You almost made it to the Kentucky Derby last year with no more time, who was injured in a
00:27:01workout leading up to the Kentucky Derby after running second at Tampa, and now along comes
00:27:06guns loaded. So, tell us about your thoughts on your analysis on the Mucho Macho Man, how you
00:27:15and the horse won, obviously. How did you feel about him going in? He was six to five,
00:27:20and how optimistic are you coming out of that race?
00:27:24You know, he's a special horse. When I make my selection to go to Saratoga, I bring just
00:27:35two two-year-olds, him and German Fury. So, that's telling you like how different he is
00:27:44about the other two-year-olds. When I saw working him at the first time, I know he has talent,
00:27:51but not the speed that he showed. So, that's why I put him on first and foremost first time out,
00:27:58because he's gone runner, the mare came by Bernardini, so everything says that he has to go
00:28:05long. When we worked with him, he never showed this speed that he has, because he's very fast.
00:28:13So, he broke quickly from the gate, he missed a little bit the break, and he ran second
00:28:19against Dallas Stewart Horse. When I saw his speed, I say probably, you know, he got sick,
00:28:26he gave me a little time to run again. So, I say, I'm going to cut the distance,
00:28:31because I saw the speed that he has. I'm going to take the advantage on his speed,
00:28:36and he won't impress on Churchill Downs, okay? That's why he made a TDN Rising Star and everything.
00:28:44So, this race confused a little bit, like probably you have a sprinter, probably you have a two-turn
00:28:50horse, because everybody that you saw, that you see in the morning when he trains and his blood,
00:28:57pedigree says that he's perfectly prepared to go long. I start stretching him on the workouts
00:29:04from the gallops, and he responds well to me to go long. That's why I decided to run on the mile
00:29:11instead, go to the pass, go in seven-four in Tampa, because if you see his chart of workouts,
00:29:19the six-four long workouts was strong workouts, strong gallop out that stays perfect to go to
00:29:25the mile. So, now talking about the race, I know it wasn't fast fractions. I know the horse won
00:29:32by neck, but after the race finished, Luis came to me and he said, hey Jose, your horse is never
00:29:42going to pass us. I have so much horse. I saw, you know, like I was so nervous about the race,
00:29:49because I'm being honest, like I don't see the gallop out in person. I was nervous about the
00:29:53race. I don't remember. So, if you watch the race until the finish line, your horse looks so much,
00:30:02you know, better than Gonzalo, so much better. I'm realizing, but if you see the gallop out of the
00:30:10horses, it's not the same thing. It's different, you know, like Gonzalo is still in front. So,
00:30:17I say, hey, Luis was right. He has so much horse. You know, every horse has his own personality.
00:30:28This way, those horses, like if you work by himself, he can work 50, slow. But if you put
00:30:35a company, he's aggressive, okay? So, I feel like when he sees your horse, he starts running again,
00:30:42and about if he can go long or short or whatever, I think we have a fast and nice horse,
00:30:51and we have to give the opportunity to him to run next time on the Hollywood and see where we are.
00:30:56Also, it's so different to run one mile in one turn than run one mile or longer in two turns,
00:31:04because probably with the two turns, you can carry the speed, you know, and make a good
00:31:10fraction start. And we see, but he is still green. He tried to go inside a little bit. We
00:31:15have to correct that, correct that on him, and we see where we are. But we have a nice horse,
00:31:21and I think we have a brilliant future. What are you thinking now in the back of your mind?
00:31:25Do you go back to Tampa? Do you look at the Holy Bull or wait for the Fountain of Youth?
00:31:30What are you leaning toward right now? You know, the good thing is like when you run the
00:31:35Mucho Macho Man, you have enough time to run on the Sam Davis or the Holy Bull, because if you run
00:31:48the Pasco next week, you are short on time. You have to go to the Sam Davis. I think we have
00:31:54plenty of time to see him, how he works, but everything looks like we are going to the Mucho
00:32:00Macho Man, because he knows the track already, and we have plenty of time. But everything looks
00:32:07like the Mucho Macho Man. You mean the Holy Bull?
00:32:11The Holy Bull, yes. Gotcha.
00:32:13Yes. Do you have an update on No More Time? Because it's been, I looked up, he doesn't
00:32:19seem to have any workouts. Is he coming back to you?
00:32:23He is still in Ocala. He is recording about the surgery and everything. He is getting time. You
00:32:29know, that seahorse needs time, and we'll see where we are later with him.
00:32:34And what about Cabaldon? I saw you breezed him once at Saratoga in July, hoping to get him to
00:32:40the Breeders' Cup, and that didn't pan out. What about him?
00:32:45Yes, he was training very good after Ascot. He got some weight, but he got bone bruising,
00:32:52so that's why we sent him to the farm to rest. He's breezing already. He's coming
00:32:56in our way last week of January, and he's going to be ready for this year.
00:33:01We're training good. Everything's good with him.
00:33:04Jose, you started off your career with a horse. Everyone needs one horse to get their name out
00:33:10there. Your horse's name was Jesus' Team. Can you tell us a little bit about what he meant to you?
00:33:20I know that he went to, where did he go to? He went to Puerto Rico. I saw he won a grade
00:33:25one race over there at Camarero.
00:33:27Yes, yes, yes. It's a long story with him. I owe everything to this horse. He put me on the map.
00:33:34He let me introduce myself to everybody. He showed me how this is here in USA, because
00:33:42here you like small details that you have to get license in every state,
00:33:47move the jockey seals to every race. I forget the seals for
00:33:50to run the Haskell $1 million, because I don't used to that in Venezuela.
00:33:57I got this horse. We ran Haskell, Jim Dundee, Prignes, Breers Cup, Pegasus World Cup, Dubai
00:34:06World Cup. At the end with him, we have some problems with the owner to pay the bills and
00:34:19everything. It was Venezuela, so I have to decide to run the horse for a tag and probably get claim
00:34:27to get the money back and pay everybody or sold the horse to the Sonaras stable.
00:34:34The deal was like he paid the money that the horse over there, but the horse never gonna run
00:34:42or claim him or go to a bad place. He's now probably the new best sign in Puerto Rico.
00:34:52He has the record, all the merch that he covered over there. He has the life now that he deserves.
00:34:58I owe him a lot of things. I feel like I paid back to him.
00:35:01That's awesome. That's very cool because we all hear such horror stories about horses
00:35:08going over there. I almost felt a little bit worried about asking the question. I'm glad that
00:35:15he's having the life he definitely deserves. Yes, probably if I run him for a tag, I get the
00:35:22money easier. I feel like probably he can finish his race running at 10 years old or getting or
00:35:30whatever. That's why he's there. I'm having the best life that he can under my Sonaras stable,
00:35:37Mark Thatcher, that he take care a lot of his horses. Great.
00:35:43I think I'm good. Got one more question about Guns Loaded. Give us a little bit of behind the
00:35:51scenes on Guns Loaded, what kind of horse he is to train and all that. I haven't seen him in person,
00:35:57but just looking at the video, either the runner up in the Mucho Macho Man, Chad Brown's horse,
00:36:03is a really small horse and your horse is normal or your horse is really big.
00:36:11No, he's really big. He's beautiful. I think he worth the money that they pay for him because
00:36:18he's beautiful horse. He's that you are looking for a race horse, strong, balanced,
00:36:25a nice walk. He's a nice horse, huge horse. Good mind?
00:36:32Good. At the start, he was little green, jumping to go to a track,
00:36:39jumping, but now he's getting focused. He's getting better. That's very important. Also,
00:36:45he was little mind when you go inside the stall now, he let you get in, give candies,
00:36:51carrots and improving a little bit. Well, they paid $800,000 for him and that's a big price tag.
00:36:58More Play Racing owns him, who basically is Rich Mendez, who also owns No More Time. What can you
00:37:06tell us about the ownership group with Rich? Because he's quite a colorful personality.
00:37:10Yes, Guns Loaded is owned by Rich, More Play and all his family, Lady Sheila's Tables,
00:37:19and Joy Plath. They are lucky. Last year, No More Time, this year, Guns Loaded. Also, they have
00:37:31Urban Legend that ran good in Saratoga, ran well in Kingland. She's a spicy. That's such a nice
00:37:40feeling. She lost at Oakland, second distinct, but I'm pretty sure that she has a brilliant future.
00:37:48Probably, she has so much talent. We just have to handle her speed good and see where we are.
00:37:56But they are nice owners. They let me work. They trust me because when you have this horse and you
00:38:03have the thing about the distance, and we have the Mucho Macho Man and the Pasco, every owner
00:38:11wants to run the Mucho Macho Man because he's going to Paris, he's trying to make also more
00:38:16money. They let me make the decision to pick the horse. Last year, No More Time, we scratched from
00:38:24the Holy Bull and run the Sam Davis and we was right. They let me this year make my own decision
00:38:31and we was right again. I am very happy to train for them. I'd be grateful for the support to
00:38:39train good horses. It's that you need. You are not a magician if you don't have the right horses.
00:38:44Well, Jose, thanks so much for joining us on the TDN Writer's Room. It's so nice to finally look
00:38:49at a handsome face. Sorry, guys. He's a very handsome man.
00:38:55Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go slow. I have to go slow right here so you can see.
00:39:02Oh, you're upside down right now. Turn your phone back up.
00:39:07One second. Turn your phone the other way.
00:39:09We're going to get up close and personal with Guns Loaded.
00:39:14Yes. One second. I'm on my way.
00:39:20This is awesome.
00:39:20Cheers.
00:39:23What's up, buddy?
00:39:24Oh, I love that. He's quite the ham. Oh, two handsome men. Oh, my goodness. You've made my
00:39:32new year.
00:39:34Thank you for that. We appreciate it.
00:39:37And here we have Howard Wolowitz, the $2 million horse.
00:39:41Who's this?
00:39:43This is Howard Wolowitz.
00:39:44Oh, yeah. Big boy.
00:39:46See, no trainer has done this for us yet. You're the very first one, Jose. So,
00:39:51thank you very much for this.
00:39:54Thank you. Well, yes.
00:39:57All right.
00:39:57Thank you, guys.
00:40:00Jose D'Angelo, our guest of the week, was brought to you by Gainesway Power Passion Performance.
00:40:07Gainesway is also the new home to last year's Preakness winner,
00:40:10Seize the Gray, the highest earning son of the late Arrowgate, with $2.5 million upon his
00:40:17retirement. He beat Darnock in his debut at Saratoga. Seize the Gray also beat Mystic Dan,
00:40:23the Kentucky Derby winner in the Preakness, and the cherry on top was his win in the grade one
00:40:27Pennsylvania Derby. Seize the Gray will be standing in his debut season at Gainesway for $30,000.
00:40:40Seize the Gray wins convincingly.
00:40:47Seize the Gray. He's going to seize the day in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:40:53Seize the Gray is still there. Seize the Gray wins the Preakness.
00:40:58PA Bread, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:41:12It's excitement at every step.
00:41:15Roses for Deborah just set a new track record.
00:41:19On average, for the past decade, Pennsylvania paid over $28 million a year in breeders awards,
00:41:25restricted races, and owner bonuses. Plus, PA Bread shine on the world's biggest stage.
00:41:30Just three states have bred more Breeders' Cup winners. Learn more at pabread.com.
00:41:37Another year here on the TDN Writer's Room, and it's time for another commercial for the PHBA,
00:41:42and why not, the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association. Their annual Stallion Season
00:41:48Auction will be held January 13th through the 19th, and already there are 100 stallion seasons,
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00:42:12You can also go to pabread.com for more information on the Pennsylvania program as a whole,
00:42:18or you can call that number, 610-444-1050.
00:42:23Now, I know you guys have missed it, and we've been away for a while, but it is time,
00:42:28drumroll please, for another edition of First Things First, presented by Santa Anita and First
00:42:36Racing. We caught up with Miramardi and Barnes, the two-legged humankind,
00:42:43to find out exactly what they thought about their four-legged friends.
00:42:53Happy to be joined by track announcer at Santa Anita, Frank Miramardi. Frank,
00:42:57before we get to the four-legged Miramardi, let's talk about opening week at Santa Anita,
00:43:03and it was amazing for me, but how was it for you? It was awesome. Anytime you look downstairs
00:43:08at this beautiful facility, we have an incredible, probably the most incredible arena,
00:43:15so to speak, for the big crowd, and to see the people show up, we know what's happening opening
00:43:20day, but all opening weekend, and then New Year's Day, I thought everyone was caught off guard and
00:43:24surprised. Maybe dollar day is not a thing of the past. People showed up, there were long lines,
00:43:29they were having a good time, and more importantly, we had great racing, safe racing, so I think
00:43:34so far, management's very pleased with what we've seen. All right, let's get to the meat. Let's talk
00:43:38Miramardi. I was a little rude in my analysis of him, saying he might have lost his best friend,
00:43:43but boy, did he pull it out. He did. Juan Hernandez knows him, and Baffert knows he
00:43:47needs to be on the front end. His race before was a complete throwout because he got caught
00:43:51behind horses. The question I had is that the horse has had some issues early in his career,
00:43:57much like his namesake, so I was wondering whether he could overcome some of the obstacles that he
00:44:03had faced because once he got discouraged last time, when he gets uncomfortable, he just shuts
00:44:08it down, but Juan put him on the lead, and he kept going, and it was a very powerful performance, and
00:44:12for those who believe in speed figures, he had a very good 98-fire speed number, which is solid.
00:44:17I was hoping triple digits, but maybe we'll get that in the big cap. How does it feel to have a
00:44:22horse named for you that wins, and you're calling the race? I mean, isn't that pretty awesome? It is.
00:44:28I got to call his debut. He got drilled. I did get to call when he broke his maiden. That was a lot
00:44:32of fun, and then this win was really almost a defining moment. I think when he gets his stakes,
00:44:37it'll be a defining moment, but I think he showed that he is indeed a stakes-caliber and perhaps
00:44:42grade-one-caliber horse. And a stellar performance from Miramate, who takes him all the way.
00:44:48Miramate scores by four and a half. I'm joined right now by Jimmy Barnes, the assistant to
00:44:54Bob Baffert, and of course, the namesake, the first. I'm the human Barnes. I love it. Did
00:44:59Emmer call you and be like, is it okay if I name this horse after you, or he just did it? They
00:45:03surprised me with it, and you know, I was honored. I was a little nervous, but you know, it's working
00:45:10out well so far. I would say so. Perfect two for two. Now, you've been around, obviously, all of
00:45:15the good Bob Baffert horses. Do you have a little bit of favoritism, though, because he's your
00:45:18namesake? Well, no, not really. I love them all. And was it nerve-wracking for you to watch your
00:45:25namesake run? Well, it was a little bit. You know, I had a little bit of a nod in my stomach,
00:45:30but you know, it'll only get better after this. Well,
00:45:34now we can jump up and down and be excited. Congratulations. Thank you, Michelle.
00:45:41I want to thank Jimmy and Frank Miramate very much indeed. And just a reminder that racing
00:45:47does continue this Friday at Santa Anita. It's been a little tricky to figure out the post times
00:45:53because we've got so many races. Friday, we have a 10 race card on Friday that will start at noon.
00:46:01There are, let me see, I wrote it down somewhere because there's so many, 102 horses entered on
00:46:09that Friday 10 race card. On Saturday, we start at 1130 AM for 11 races and some ridiculous number,
00:46:18like 110 horses entered in that card. We had an opening two week total sources handle of over 90
00:46:28million dollars and kudos to all of those people that came out the past two weeks.
00:46:32There were over 94,000 people that visited Santa Anita. Kudos to everyone and kudos to the racing
00:46:40office as well for getting all these races to go. It looks like it's onwards and upwards right now
00:46:45at Santa Anita. Zoe, before we move on, I want to ask you a follow-up question on that. How much
00:46:50are these big fields due to the incoming supply of horses from Northern California? It's gradually
00:46:58getting there. I think the first week they had trouble filling a couple of the Northern California
00:47:03races because the last weekend at Pleasanton was so big. You know what happens when it's closing
00:47:09weekend, everyone wants to run, understandably. But now they're starting to pick up some momentum.
00:47:14They're trying to get an extra two races every day and it's working. Hence, we have
00:47:18nine on Friday, 10 on Saturday. Ultimately, we're looking to get back to a four-day racing week.
00:47:24The big thing as well has been the on-track handle is up, I think like 10% or 12%, which really
00:47:33puts a lot more money back into the purses of Santa Anita. Good news. It's job security for
00:47:39me, right? Onwards and upwards. We like that. Well, the list of the Eclipse Award finalists
00:47:45came out this week, which is largely, if you ask me, a waste of time. There's never any surprises
00:47:49in there and you don't learn a whole lot from that. But it gives us an excuse to talk again
00:47:55about the Eclipse Awards. I think we're all three voters. Our votes have to be in. There
00:48:00was three particular categories that I had trouble with and I really had to think over time on them,
00:48:07which is usually not the case. Usually, they're almost all no-brainers. First of all, as a
00:48:11trainer, Kenny McPeak versus Chad Brown. This is a very unique situation. If you go by the raw
00:48:17numbers, Chad Brown should be a walkover. His numbers were fantastic. But I voted for Kenny
00:48:24McPeak because of what he did this year, which I thought was he did something truly special,
00:48:29winning on back-to-back days, the Kentucky Oaks and the Kentucky Derby, almost winning the Travers
00:48:35with his great Philly Torpedo Anna, coming back and winning the Breeders' Cup Distaff with Torpedo
00:48:39Anna, and then Torpedo Anna will be Horse of the Year. Twenty years from now, when we talk about
00:48:442024, we'll be talking about those horses and not any one of the millions of good horses that Chad
00:48:50Brown has. So my vote went for Kenny McPeak. Zoe? Kenny too. Absolutely. And I believe he's
00:48:58going to get it because everyone I've spoken to has voted for Kenny. Well, it's good to know. I
00:49:04voted for Kenny McPeak also. Nothing against Chad Brown and the year he had, which was an amazing
00:49:08year. I'm glad to hear that everybody you talked to has voted for Kenny McPeak because I was a
00:49:14little concerned. In fact, I kind of went into this podcast expecting Chad Brown to win it just
00:49:21because so many people that are Eclipse Award voters, when they get to the owner, trainer,
00:49:26jockey, breeder, all they do is just look at the standings of earnings and maybe graded stakes wins
00:49:32or whatever. And they go to whoever's on top and it's just, you know, it's a habit and Chad Brown
00:49:38is on top in that category. So, you know, I was kind of skeptical as to whether or not Kenny could
00:49:43get it and we'll see. Here's one for you. Here's one for you. And I, this didn't really cross my
00:49:51mind until I saw a tweet by Jay Privman, Brian Hernandez. I was just going to say that's the only
00:49:58surprise, Zoe, that I had. It did, like Bill says, you're very seldom surprised by these finalists.
00:50:05And when I was filling out my votes, obviously Flavian Perrette deserved to be number one,
00:50:10right? Irad Ortiz had a heck of a year and I fell into the trap of just looking at the standings,
00:50:16right? And he was on top as always. So I put Irad second and I said, who am I going to put third?
00:50:22Yeah, you know, I mean, there's been some good years. Oh, Brian Hernandez.
00:50:30Why not? I mean, we talked about what a great ride that he gave Mystic Dan in the Kentucky
00:50:34Derby. We talked about how he seized the day with Torpedo Anna and the Kentucky Oaks and put her on
00:50:40the lead, which was a change in tactics. And then he wins the Breeders' Cup this year. We praised
00:50:45Brian Hernandez. Why not? Not a finalist. Certainly deserves recognition, but that's
00:50:53one of those no-brainer categories. Flavian Perrette will be the Eclipse Award-winning
00:50:58jockey and for good reason. Okay, three-year-old male. What a battle between Fierceness and Sierra
00:51:05Leone. They ran against each other four times. They split the two races, two and two. Fierceness
00:51:12had some very good races, beating Sierra Leone earlier in the year. But then when it came down
00:51:17to the race that really matters is the Breeders' Cup Classic won by Sierra Leone. And Randy,
00:51:23Phil said, because I know your colleague Andy Byer had some pretty strong thoughts on this.
00:51:28You know, you look at the Breeders' Cup Classic and I don't know if you'll agree with me,
00:51:32but I think a lot of people think the best horse was Fierceness, even though he didn't win. So
00:51:37should you vote for him over Sierra Leone because he was, quote-unquote, the best horse?
00:51:42I went back and forth on that, but at the end of the day, I just went for Sierra Leone. He won the
00:51:45race. And, you know, I don't care what, well, I do care what kind of trip Fierceness had. It was
00:51:51very, very impressive. But I just, I think you have to, it's too hypothetical. Oh, if he would
00:51:56have had a good trip, he would have won. So he's better than Sierra Leone. I'll go for my good
00:52:01friend, Chad Brown and Sierra Leone. So, you know, I've worked with Andy for
00:52:07four decades on the Byer Speed Figures. He's a dear friend of mine. To the shock of no one,
00:52:12Andy's very opinionated about things. And he told me in no uncertain terms that I made a mistake
00:52:17voting for Sierra Leone for champion three-year-old over Fierceness. And I especially made a mistake
00:52:23voting for Torpedo Anna for Horse of the Year, right? Anyone who votes for Torpedo Anna should
00:52:30never be allowed to vote again for the Eclipse Awards. And I, you know, I mean, he has his,
00:52:37he has his criteria and, and he has his reasons. But that's, those are votes that I made that he
00:52:45definitely did not agree with. There's no wrong vote. Okay. There's no wrong vote. If he voted
00:52:52for Fierceness, I'm not going to argue with you. If he voted for Sierra Leone, I'm not going to
00:52:56argue with you, but Sierra Leone's going to win. Simple. Who'd you vote for Horse of the Year?
00:53:02Torpedo Anna. Sorry, Andy.
00:53:07All right. So the other one that I wanted to talk about was the Turf Male. And this is something
00:53:12Randy and I talk a lot about, and this comes up every year. Do you vote for the horse that
00:53:17ships in from Europe and is a one race on U.S. soil winner like Rebels Romance? Rebels Romance
00:53:24had a terrific year. He was five for six and boy, did he pick up some frequent flyer miles
00:53:29running in Qatar, Germany, the UK, Hong Kong, Dubai, and then coming into the U.S.
00:53:35Was he the best turf horse in the world in 2025? Perhaps. He was certainly the best turf horse in
00:53:42the U.S. on Breeders' Cup day. But I hate voting for these horses that come in and win one race.
00:53:48I don't care what he did in Qatar. I don't care what he did in Germany. If you want to race on
00:53:52Mars, I don't care. It only comes down to me to what he did in the U.S. and it's only one race.
00:53:58That's why I went with Carl Spackler, who was fourth in the Breeders' Cup mile,
00:54:03but he won four stakes races this year, including two grade ones. I'd like to take the horse that
00:54:08had a complete U.S. campaign over the horse that was very good on one day. Rebels Romance was the
00:54:15horse of the day. Carl Spackler was the older Turf Male of the year. No, I don't like
00:54:22I would rather not vote for a horse that made only one start in the United States.
00:54:28But then I looked at the alternatives. As long as it's not a rule, which I think it should be a
00:54:32rule that a horse has to run at least twice in North America to be given an Eclipse Award on
00:54:36that calendar year, but it's not. So I looked at Rebels Romance. Okay, who else can I vote for?
00:54:42Johannes had an unbelievable year, but he lost in the Breeders' Cup. The horse that beat him
00:54:47more than looks in the Breeders' Cup mile had a very abbreviated campaign himself. I think he only
00:54:52had three starts maybe in calendar year 2024. So it's not like he had this big, long body of work
00:54:59himself. So I thought, okay, you know, I mean, the best horse of the three, I think would be
00:55:04Rebels Romance. So he won the most prestigious race of any of them. So that I kind of held my
00:55:10nose and it's not fair to the horse to say I held my nose, but that's why I voted for Rebels Romance.
00:55:15I went Johannes body of work because I am a firm believer that it should be two starts for,
00:55:23you know, Rebels Romance. So it was body of work. I know that more than looks beat him,
00:55:28but he only ran two or three times this year. So Johannes for me.
00:55:34Pegasus is gearing up and the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV. This week's
00:55:40XBTV Work of the Week is the joint work between graded stakes winning stablemates
00:55:46Locked and Kruppi. The Todd Pletcher pair went five furlongs in company in 103 and change at
00:55:52Palm Beach Downs on Friday. Todd Pletcher said that both Colts are pointing towards a January,
00:55:57the 25th $3 million Pegasus World Cup. Locked was an impressive winner of the Cigar Mile winner.
00:56:04Cigar Mile last time out. Thank you. I said he would win. And Kruppi won this summer's
00:56:09Suburban before finishing second in the Whitney. That's Kruppi on the outside with Danny Wright
00:56:15aboard him. He's a regular gallop rider of fierceness under a vigorous ride there.
00:56:20On the inside is Hector aboard Locked, who I believe got the edge. 103 is not a time to
00:56:26write home about, but that is a very deep, tiring track down there.
00:56:31Be a smarter, better with XBTV. The best horses with thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
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00:57:00With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round,
00:57:08there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:57:14Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing California,
00:57:20Florida, and New York. Kentucky breds. Breed them. Raise them. Race them. We all win.
00:57:30The TDN Writer's Room also brought to you by Kentucky Breds. We have already talked about
00:57:38earlier on this podcast about how you can go to the TDN website and you can peruse the very first
00:57:44Derby Top 12 of the year by our friend TD, Cajones Thornton. And guess what it's filled with? It's
00:57:51not like TD sits down and says, okay, I'm going to make my Derby Top 12 and I'm going to include
00:57:57nothing but Kentucky Breds. I'm just going to load it with Kentucky Breds. The hell with Florida
00:58:01and California and Iowa and every other state that might have a horse. I'm going to go with,
00:58:06no, he doesn't do that. It's just, it's what happens because Kentucky produces the best
00:58:11horses. As a matter of fact, 11 out of TD's Top 12 in his Derby, as it turns out,
00:58:17were bred in Kentucky, including his one, two, three first resort Sandman and Barnes,
00:58:23to the surprise of nobody. Kentucky Breds breed them, buy them, raise them. We all win.
00:58:30Well, one of the themes of the Writer's Room podcast in 2024, and Zoe, Randy, and myself are
00:58:36always on the same page on this, is the sport has to do better. You have to do better with the
00:58:41welfare of the animals and you have to do better job of explaining to our critics that, hey, we
00:58:47really love these horses and we really care. A couple of things have happened recently, again,
00:58:52that makes you wonder, and it's not a blanket statement for all of racing, but there are some
00:58:57bad apples out there and people who still, I think we would say, don't get it. And I want to start
00:59:03off, it happened, I think, on the day of our last podcast when Paco Lopez rode a horse at
00:59:08Parks. The horse, it was a crazy race. You should take a look at it. It was on December 3rd. The
00:59:14horse bore out so badly in the stretch that he was really just a few feet away from the outer rail.
00:59:19He did win the race, but when he crossed the wire, Paco took his whip and struck him
00:59:24on the neck and in the face. Somebody, I don't know how somebody still had their camera on
00:59:29him afterwards. If not for that, they probably never would have caught him. But people were
00:59:33indignant as they should have been. There's no place for that in racing. He's been given an
00:59:38indefinite suspension by the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Authority. My guess is they'll make him
00:59:44sit out 60, 90 days. But Zoe, I'm sure you've had plenty of rides where things have frustrated you
00:59:49and I know, of course, you would never do something as heinous as that.
00:59:52Good. I'm full of this crap. Throw the book at him. It's BS as far as I'm concerned. He's got
00:59:59a little temper, obviously, and he took it out on the horse. After the horse had done everything
01:00:05wrong already and finally pulled up, took a breath, he just opted to wallop him. No, it's BS.
01:00:11Throw the book at him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look,
01:00:17the possibility existed given that race for Paco to have been injured, maybe seriously injured,
01:00:24because of the antics of the horse. That's why he was frustrated. But there's no justification
01:00:31whatsoever for taking out your frustration in that manner on the horse. Take your frustration
01:00:37out on the trainer. Don't hit him. Don't hit him with a whip. But complain about the way the horse
01:00:42behaved during the running of the race. Tell the trainer, yeah, I'm never going to ride this horse
01:00:46again. This horse is wild or whatever. But don't take it out on the poor animal. And Paco, he's
01:00:55apologized, but that's not enough. And he's serving his penance. Yeah. And that's the other
01:01:01thing, too, is a good point, Randy. When this happened, the horse was pulled up, was completely
01:01:07under control, was no longer doing anything to be of any danger to Paco. But still, he decided to
01:01:13take out his frustrations on him. Okay. Dan Ross, who does a terrific job for the TDN, did a deep
01:01:19dive on a story that made a lot of comments on social media, of course, by the name of War Envoy,
01:01:25once upon a time, a campaign by the Coolmore folks, actually won a race at Royal Ascot,
01:01:30and came over here, they tried to make a stallion out of him, didn't really work out. He was found
01:01:35last week or the week before among 13 horses that had to be rescued from a Franklin County,
01:01:41Kentucky farm, and various states of malnutrition, etc. And here's the question again, what do we say
01:01:48to our critics when I mean, first of all, it shouldn't matter to me, it shouldn't matter if
01:01:52he's a $2,000 claimer from Mountaineer Park, or a horse that won a Royal Ascot. But we tend to put
01:01:58these better horses on a pedestal and concentrate on them. What do we say to people or critics of
01:02:04horse racing, that this horse could have achieved all these levels could have done this much for his
01:02:09owners along the way, and somehow was virtually left to starve to death. Fortunately, he's been
01:02:15rescued out of there. And they'll get him back to good health. But it's again, it's a story where,
01:02:19you know, racing has to do a better job. This can't keep happening. And it does, Zoe.
01:02:26I mean, it's atrocious. The pictures of those horses made national headlines in Europe,
01:02:34in England, in the Daily Mirror. War envoy Breeders' Cup horse left in cold mud pen to die.
01:02:42The pictures are brutal. It's atrocious. There is no excuse for it. I know that Mick posted the
01:02:48horse was healthy and everything in September. And it's, it's not really a fault of him. He
01:02:54gave him away to a friend of a friend to be a backyard breeder. But we need to do a better
01:03:01job of tracking the horses we give away. And they do have something in the Jockey Club that's listed
01:03:06in Dan's article, but it's not enough. None of it is enough. It shouldn't happen. We need to do
01:03:12better. Could not agree more. I mean, we talk a lot and rightfully so about horse safety in terms of
01:03:22on track catastrophic accidents. And we've talked a lot about how that has improved significantly
01:03:31under the guidance of HISA, right, which is one of the real good news stories of 2024.
01:03:38But the difference between this war envoy situation and those situations is that as much as
01:03:45we try and do everything we can to get those numbers down, as far as catastrophic injuries
01:03:51on the racetrack, there is, unfortunately, there's no way to completely 100% get rid of them
01:03:59because they're unavoidable to a certain extent. This is avoidable. This is 100% avoidable and can
01:04:08be corrected with the proper administrative tools, the proper oversight, et cetera, et cetera.
01:04:15And this is something that racing really, really needs to get on top of. Now, there are a lot of
01:04:22organizations that have popped up over the last 20 years dedicated to aftercare for thoroughbreds,
01:04:29but even more, more funding, more needs to be done because make no mistake about it.
01:04:37If this continues, the knives will come out and they will come out against thoroughbred racing.
01:04:44Dan had a great point in the article that it's not just thoroughbred racing that has this problem,
01:04:48show jumping, any equine sports, you know, casual riding horse ownership,
01:04:56horses of all kinds can wind up in bad situations. But if this keeps happening,
01:05:02the knives will come out against thoroughbred racing and thoroughbred racing can't afford
01:05:11that to happen right now in its current state. And this is one thing as well. This is kind of
01:05:17a different take on aftercare because we have all of these facilities that will take the geldings
01:05:24and the mares as riding horses. But what do we do with the stallions? The only place in North
01:05:29America that really takes stallions is old friends, okay? So they've got the likes of
01:05:34Silver Charmin and other stallions. War Envoy, there was an intermischief stallion there as well.
01:05:40These are stallions. So what do you do with them when they're no longer useful? What do you do with
01:05:46the mares that have given their life to having foals? This is something that is near and dear
01:05:52to me and we need to take more care of it. Walker Hancock from Claiborne Farm tweeted out and Dan
01:05:58Ross had spoken to him that as of 2025, they are no longer selling mares that are 17 years or older
01:06:06at any auction house in North America, which I applaud because there's too many people culling
01:06:12their older mares that they've made millions off of. It drives me insane. And then they also said
01:06:18that they're going to more than half their day rate. So if you have an old retired mare at
01:06:24Claiborne, they're going to charge you 10 bucks a day to put the horse in the back 40 and then
01:06:31you're done. They'll take care of her till she dies or she needs to be euthanized. People need
01:06:35to take care of their old mares. If you don't want her anymore, and I hate to say this, euthanize her.
01:06:40Do not give her away or sell her at an auction house for a thousand dollars. It's not fair.
01:06:47They wind up in terrible places. That's my reaction. Kudos to Claiborne. I'm glad you mentioned that,
01:06:53Zoe, because it's good to see somebody out there coming up with some solutions and good for
01:06:58Claiborne. The TD and Writer's Room again this year is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:07:04We told you about how well West Point's horses ran in 2024. A lot of those horses are coming back
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01:07:22wave also is full of promise. The two-year-olds potentially with an eye toward the first Saturday
01:07:26in May. You've got Bullard, you've got Keep It Easy, you've got Pascaline, and you've got Sandman,
01:07:31number two on TD Thornton's Derby Top 12, who's on track for his next start in southwest stakes,
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01:08:16Well, that's a wrap on our first show of 2025. I hope you enjoyed it. It's good to be back. I
01:08:21want to thank my colleagues, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman, along with those dogs. Doesn't it just
01:08:27warms your heart to see how sweet they are? And the old generic, who takes care of the dogs when
01:08:34they get old? Well, we do. We do. Yes, we do. And take good care of them. Dog after care is very
01:08:40important. Very important. We want to thank our Gainesway Guests of the Week, Jose D'Angelo,
01:08:46our editors and our producers, Katie Petruniak, Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, and Ali LaRocca.
01:08:51Have a great 2025, everybody, and we'll talk to you next week. Bye, guys.