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00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:31I'm a correspondent for Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:34And also on Saturday mornings, I co-host the Down the Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio with
00:38Dave Johnson.
00:39Hi there.
00:40I'm Randy Moss of NBC Sports, fresh off our telecast of the Haskell.
00:45And a very good telecast it was indeed.
00:48I'm Zoe Cabman with First Racing and XBTV.
00:51And I am somewhere in the middle of the woods in a state park.
00:56So fortunately, we have internet and we'll kick on from here.
01:01I know you wish you were here guys, because you both look like you're really good campers.
01:06Yeah, just watch out for the mosquitoes and the snakes, okay, Zoe?
01:11I got Doodle for that.
01:12Doodle will take care of me.
01:14Right.
01:15All right, gang.
01:16Well, obviously, the big story last weekend was the Haskell Stakes where Randy Moss and
01:19the NBC crew were at Monmouth Park.
01:21And you know, on paper, it was a very good race.
01:23There were eight horses in there.
01:25Six were really legitimate top horses.
01:27The winner is Go Rocket Ride, Mike Smith, the jockey, will join us a little bit later
01:31and we'll talk about that.
01:33He ran great.
01:34He's a good horse.
01:35He's right into the mix of the top three-year-olds, a group that still really we don't know who
01:41number one is.
01:42There hasn't been a single horse yet to really step up and win two of these big races.
01:47But one of my observations, there's a lot to talk about here.
01:49I was actually a little bit disappointed by the Haskell.
01:53And the reason why is because between Arabian Night and Extra Neho, we saw two horses, particularly
01:58Arabian Night, that we thought, wow, these might really be superstars going down the
02:04second half of the year.
02:05You know, potential Breeders' Cup classic winners, horses that we could get really excited
02:09about.
02:10They both ran fine.
02:11Arabian Night, third, beating three and three quarter lengths.
02:13Extra Neho, fourth, beating five and three quarter lengths.
02:17But they didn't really live up to the hype or the sizzle.
02:19But I don't want to take anything away from Go Rocket Ride.
02:21Dick Mandela last ran in the Haskell 21 years earlier, but Dixie Union took off 21 years
02:28and came back and won it again with Go Rocket Ride.
02:31Yeah.
02:32Mandela, perfect two for two now, a lifetime in the Haskell.
02:34When he ships, you got to pay attention.
02:37And it's certainly pointed out that Go Rocket Ride is a legitimate contender in the three-year-old
02:42division.
02:43They're not going to run in the Traverse, no surprise, apparently back to California
02:46and the Pacific Classic at Del Mar.
02:50And if all goes well, probably the Awesome again and then the Breeders' Cup Classic.
02:54Mage, I thought, ran particularly well in defeat, especially since the storyline all
02:59week long from the Delgados was that he was not 100 percent ready for the race.
03:05You could also tell that from his workout pattern leading up to the race.
03:10So for him to put in the Mage kind of move that he did to run up to Go Rocket Ride at
03:15the top of the stretch, I thought was a really good effort by Mage.
03:20He had a right to get a little bit tired at the end, and he did.
03:22I think it sets him up well for the Traverse.
03:25Arabian Knight, look, the one thing we didn't know about Arabian Knight was how he was going
03:30to handle a situation if another horse blasted off and beat him to the early lead.
03:36Two for two lifetime, so impressive, had never been behind another horse in the afternoons
03:41he had in the mornings.
03:42But as we all know, that can be a completely different scenario.
03:45And I just don't think he handled it well.
03:47I think he got way too aggressive.
03:49He got a little rank with John Velasquez.
03:52So I think it was the combination of fast early fractions, the fact that he didn't settle
03:56at all, and oh yeah, by the way, he hadn't run since January in the Southwest Stakes.
04:01I think the three of those things combined to take him down, and he was still only beating
04:06two links by Mage for second.
04:09And as far as Extra Aneo is concerned, he was wide on both turns.
04:14But I just don't think that I was more disappointed in Extra Aneo probably than I was in Arabian
04:22Knight because I can look at the race and I can give Arabian Knight an excuse the way
04:26the race was run, and you can visually watch him and see why he ran the way he ran.
04:33Extra Aneo, I don't think you can really come up with that much of an excuse.
04:37He was back early, but the pace was fast.
04:40Tapitrice was Tapitrice.
04:43The underachieving kind of horse that he's always been, a little reluctant, no early
04:47speed at all.
04:49I was disappointed in him as well.
04:50I thought he would put in a little bit more of a run than he put in.
04:54Yeah.
04:55The winner was brilliant as far as I was concerned.
04:58Go Rocket Ride.
04:59This is a horse who showed his mettle with a very, very game run in the Santa Anita Derby
05:04in just, I think, his second lifetime start with Slavian aboard him that day.
05:09He's always been a good horse.
05:11He's obviously had a few little issues, a few little hiccups along the way.
05:15It was good to see him win.
05:17It was really cool to see him win for Jim and Dana Bernhardt, who have brought to life
05:22Pinnoke Stud.
05:23I think that's the story here with Pinnoke, because I'm not sure they were expecting it
05:28to come along quite as quickly as it has.
05:32First horse that they bought, Go Rocket Ride.
05:35Now it looks like you're making a stallion for the farm that you bought right after the
05:39horse.
05:40It's a fantastic story for the pair of them.
05:42I love the fact that Mike Smith was aboard him.
05:45He rode him like he was riding the best horse.
05:48Now Mike will tend to go a little bit wide usually and keep a horse out of trouble, but
05:52I think with a lightly raced horse like him, he rode him the right way.
05:56As far as Arabian Night was concerned, I'm not buying he was a short horse off his six
06:02months off.
06:03Bob Baffett does not send a short horse to the Haskell.
06:06I will buy that he's unseasoned, and I think we saw that from him, the unseasoning.
06:1322 and four, Johnny V was able to rein him back into a 24 and one quarter, but maybe
06:20he just expanded too much energy in that opening quarter, and that's purely what did him in.
06:25If he was as good as I thought he was, maybe he should have overcome that.
06:29I don't know, but I'm not buying that he was a short horse coming in for Bob Baffett.
06:35All in all, Mays ran a bang up race, and it's so often nowadays we see these grade
06:41one states with four or five mediocre horses and short fields.
06:46This was a really good race, a really, really good race.
06:51No, we won't see Go Rocket Ride in the Travers.
06:53We'll probably likely see him back at Santa Anita, but it really gives you something to
06:58look forward to, and it's cool to see Mike Smith.
07:01I'm excited to talk to him later.
07:04Looking at Monmouth, Bill, I know you're very familiar with Monmouth.
07:07What was nice to see, and you see it every year Haskell time, but it's still the same.
07:11As the day progresses, the crowd gets bigger and bigger, and by the time the Haskell was
07:16run, the place was absolutely packed with young people.
07:20My daughter was there doing some work for the NBC telecast, and she was amazed at the
07:27people her age, she's college age, that had come in off the beach probably and were at
07:32Monmouth for the Haskell.
07:33It was really a nice vibe, as the Haskell almost always is.
07:39So we keep asking the same question throughout all these races.
07:42Now we've got the Jim Dandy up next.
07:44We'll talk about that a little bit later in the show.
07:46Then, of course, the Travers and the Pennsylvania Derby.
07:49Who is the best three-year-old?
07:50I mean, I have no idea.
07:52I keep waiting for someone to answer that question.
07:56I mean, Mage could answer that question, Arabian Night could answer that question.
07:59I mean, Go Rocket Ride's in the mix, but he's got just the one major win.
08:03Randy, what are we going to be talking about later on in the year, supposedly, maybe after
08:09the Travers?
08:11Who's the star of this division?
08:13Who's the horse that is going to be the one we're all going to be talking about later
08:16on?
08:17Hands down, the star of the division's two fills.
08:20Unfortunately, he's retired.
08:26So we won't see him again.
08:28I think it's wide, wide, wide open.
08:30I really do.
08:31I'm fascinated in the Jim Dandy to see, and we'll talk about that later, to see how Forte
08:36runs with blinkers on.
08:38See if that makes a difference a little bit in his kind of stop-and-go way that he's been
08:42running lately.
08:43But I think there's a lot left to be written.
08:45Zoe, you have a strong opinion?
08:46Well, it's funny that you mentioned two fills because horse racing is such a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately
08:53sport.
08:54I'd already forgotten about two fills.
08:56By the time Equip Support Voting comes around, people are going to be like, two who?
09:00Who's that guy?
09:01And it's just such a shame that he was so good early in the year and he's likely going
09:06to be forgotten about by the end of the year.
09:09If he had the same resume at the beginning of the year, at the end of the year that he
09:12had at the beginning, he's probably going to be on everybody's mindset.
09:16But right now they're going to be like, oh, two who?
09:19Two who?
09:20There may be another one that pops in on the radar by then.
09:22I don't know who the top three-year-old will be.
09:25I think we're just going to let it play out and hope that they're all running in the classic
09:30at the end of the year because that could be a terrific race.
09:32It's still going to get there as well.
09:34Yeah, two fills, body of work, a good horse, but he's not an Eclipse Award contender.
09:38Not off winning the Ohio Derby.
09:40Come on now, guys.
09:41So anyways, let's switch gears to the three-year-old Philly division.
09:45The coaching club American Oaks was run on Saturday.
09:48Wet paint rebounded off a kind of a mediocre effort, I would say, in the Kentucky Oaks
09:55and gets the winner circle for Brad Cox.
09:57Randy, one thing, there's been a story about this division all along.
10:01These horses are slow.
10:03Nobody can crack even a 90 buyer, an 89 buyer for wet paint.
10:08And this isn't into July of their three-year-old year.
10:12They should be cracking the mid-90s, maybe the high 90s by now.
10:15But nonetheless, in this division right now, she took a major step forward.
10:21But every time I look at the numbers come out of this, I just think, where are the fast
10:27horses in this division?
10:28Well look, with any speed figures, buyer speed figures included, you got to kind of take
10:33a look at the way the race was run, et cetera, et cetera.
10:36Yeah, it was an 89 buyer speed figure.
10:38I'm going to view the coaching club American Oaks going forward as exactly what you wanted
10:44it to be.
10:45It was like about a 94, 95, 96 caliber performance on the speed figure scale.
10:51I mean, they were eight and a half points clear, wet paint and Sacred Wish, in a fairly
10:55slow-paced race of Gambling Girl, who had been made the six to five favorite.
11:00She's looking lucky, was right there next to Gambling Girl.
11:03She'd come off a big effort in the mid-80s or so in her last start at Ellis Park.
11:07So I thought it was a really good effort by wet paint.
11:11It's not going to, you know, falter into clear number one status among the three-year-old
11:16fillies, but I thought it was a return to form for her.
11:20I thought visually the race was fantastic for her, nevermind the figure.
11:25She was so far back, she ate an awful lot of dirt.
11:28I think you've got to toss the figure out of the window right now and just take the
11:31race on its merits for how this filly ran into a fairly tepid pace up front.
11:38She got a terrific ride by Pratt.
11:39Yes, she only won by a neck, but she didn't have things her own way, like the horses up
11:44there on the front end.
11:45I thought she ran superbly.
11:48Six fillies have won the CCA Oaks and gone on and won the Alabama, including Nest, Songbird
11:55and Questing.
11:56So she's got big shoes to fill.
11:58It looks like she'll run in the Alabama next, let's just not forget that the Dolphin also
12:02have pretty mischievous top three-year-old as well, and she's going to target the grade
12:07one test.
12:08She's going to try and split these split these two up, but I thought it was a great
12:12race by wet paint, and it was good to see her win on a big stage because she's just
12:17been pushing the envelope thus far, and we'll see what she's got in the next hour.
12:23Well speaking of Nest, I thought she was the star of the weekend.
12:27Only four horses in the Chouvi, yes, let's take that into context, but the big one was
12:32in there.
12:33It was, I mean, essentially on paper, a match race between her and Claire Eyre.
12:36Claire Eyre has been so good this year.
12:38Nest's first start since the Breeders' Cup distaff way back in November, and speaking
12:44of, you say Bob Baffert always has them ready, Todd Pletcher always has them ready, doesn't
12:50run short horses.
12:51She was just really good off the layoff, and she wins by two and a quarter lengths, and
12:56there was really no contest.
12:57I mean, Claire Eyre, yeah, she had to close and had to try to catch Nest, but there was
13:01nothing too terrible about her trip.
13:04I just think she got beat by, who was on that day, a better horse, and I think the
13:09Pletcher-Rapolli camp, along with Aaron Wellman, should be very happy with that performance
13:16and looking forward to a really strong run to the Breeders' Cup distaff from Nest.
13:21Oh yeah, Nest and Claire Eyre, both daughters of Kirtland.
13:25I think they're outstanding fillies, and they're clearly, I think, the number one and number
13:31two females on the East Coast.
13:35We've got Adair Manor on the West Coast, trained by Bob Baffert, and of course, the Breeders'
13:38Cup this year is at Santa Anita, so it's a fascinating setup if all these horses stay
13:43sound, and maybe Secret Oath can find her mojo again by the time the Breeders' Cup distaff
13:49rolls around.
13:50Now, pace, I think, was a consideration in this race, very slow, 49.45 seconds early,
13:56so that gave Nest a bit of a tactical advantage over Claire Eyre.
14:00When they ran against each other last, and there was some pace in the race, was in the
14:04Breeders' Cup distaff, where Claire Eyre finished third, was three lengths ahead of Nest.
14:09I happen to think Nest, for whatever reason, did not nearly run her race in the Breeders'
14:15Cup distaff.
14:16If you look at her race last year in the Coaching Club American Oaks, if you look at her race
14:20in the Beldame, and then you look at the Chauvet, to me, she's the best older mare in America
14:28when she's on top of her game.
14:31So I really loved her race on this past weekend as well.
14:36She just looked terrific.
14:38She looked as fit as a fiddle in the paddock.
14:40Now, they're both daughters of Curlin, right?
14:42Claire Eyre is a big, bulky, she looks like a colt.
14:47Nest is beautifully refined.
14:49She just prances around the paddock like a ballerina.
14:53She's trained terrifically going up to this race.
14:56I think now, as a four-year-old, she's got it all together.
15:00I'm not sure she'll get beat again this year.
15:03I thought her race was absolutely terrific.
15:05Now, I went by the barn the next day and ran into Aaron Wellman at the barn.
15:10I have to say, she did look a little bit tired.
15:12She still was acquiescing with us and sticking her head out and putting her ears forward,
15:18but you could see it in her eyes that she had laid it down on the line.
15:22It was a terrific day for Eclipse Thoroughbreds.
15:25They also won with Anaset down in Delmar and the San Clemente.
15:29Then, they were a little bit disappointed.
15:31They had a very nice two-year-old filly called Camera who disappointed the same day as well,
15:35but two out of three ain't bad.
15:37I mean, who's going to complain about that?
15:39Camera can come back again, but Nest, for me, absolutely terrific.
15:44I really, really enjoyed that race.
15:46I don't think Claire Eyre really lost anything in defeat,
15:49but I think maybe this year, Nest is just a little bit better.
15:54The TDM Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
15:57Nest, we already just spoke about her.
15:59The winner of the Grade 2 Shoeby Stakes at Saratoga was a Keeneland September sale grant.
16:05She sold for $350,000, which looks like an absolute steal right now in the 2020 Keeneland September sale.
16:13Nest made her four-year-old return a winning one in the shoeby.
16:17Keeneland is home of the world's yearling sale.
16:20The energy, magic, and momentum of the September yearling sale
16:24returns on September 11th through the 23rd.
16:27I'll be there.
16:28And don't forget, August 1st is the entry deadline for the 2023 November breeding sale.
16:35We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
16:41If this place could talk,
16:45it would roar.
16:47It would say, this is a reset.
16:51This beating heart in the heart of horse country.
16:55Steady and strong beneath the roar.
16:59Reminding us why.
17:01For the love of the horse.
17:04For generations to come.
17:15To be continued...
17:24This week, we welcome a new advertiser.
17:27We've had them once before, and here they are again.
17:29Stone Street Farm.
17:31Stone Street Breds won two races this week,
17:34when Driana broke her maiden at Ellis Park,
17:37and 2ndID took an allowance race at Gold Street.
17:41Look for four Stone Street Bread Yearling cults selling at Saratoga August 7th and August 8th.
17:48Hit number 77, By Quality Road from the family of Santa Anita Derby winner Dortmund.
17:54Hit 92, they're selling them all together, a Spicetown cult from the family of Graded
18:00Stakes winner Uncaptured. And hit 135, an Intermischief cult out of Rachel Alexandra's
18:07Grade 1 winning daughter, Rachel's Valentina. One more, hit number 183 is a cult by Authentic
18:14who is a half-brother to Grade 1 Met Mile winner Silver State. The guiding focus of
18:20Stone Street is to breed and develop quality thoroughbreds with strength, stamina and class.
18:26Stone Street, Born to Run, Raised to Win.
18:31The fastest horse of the week is brought to you by the Fast Stallions at Windstar Farm
18:35such as Nashville. Look at his career record as a racehorse chronologically.
18:40As a two-year-old at Saratoga in one of those tough maiden races, he wins by 11.5
18:44lengths to become a TD and rising star. November 7th, 2020 at Keeneland, set a track record,
18:50six furlongs, 107.89. That was Breeders' Cup day, almost a full second faster than the sprint
18:56later in the day. And then March 2022, he runs the fastest six furlongs at the fairgrounds meet,
19:02108.61. He ran faster than 44 seconds flat for a half mile three different times,
19:08won two of those. We're talking speeds. Off to a fast start as a stallion as well.
19:14204 mares bred in his first book, 91% of those checking in full. You're looking for speed and
19:21who isn't? Nashville stands at Windstar Farm. Now this week's horse of the week,
19:28here's a new one for you. An Iowa bred winning an allowance optional claiming race at Prairie
19:35Meadows on a Thursday. His name, Topper T, went to the lead in that optional claiming race,
19:44won it by 18.75 lengths, a modest buyer speed figure of 110 for Topper T. By far, obviously,
19:53the highest of his career. Previous high was 92. He had won three of his last four starts for
19:57trainer Jan Arnett, son of Bellamy Road. Bellamy Road, of course, best known for winning the Wood
20:03Memorial by 17.5 lengths. So those big margins must run in the family. And here's something I
20:09thought was interesting. In that optional claiming race at Prairie Meadows was a six horse field.
20:14Only two horses in that six horse field were entered to be claimed for $30,000.
20:20Topper T was one of the two, but no one went in for him. And so he goes out there and runs a 110
20:26buyer speed figure. Topper T, rather, 110 buyer, the fastest horse of the week.
20:35Got to love those Iowa breads. Congratulations to Topper T. So last week on the podcast,
20:40we had Lisa Lazarus on as a green group guest of the week. And I give her credit for a lot of the
20:46things that she said in the way she handles herself, because rather than being defensive,
20:51she admitted that Hyza slash Hywoo had made some mistakes in the rollout, particularly when it
20:57involved inter-articular injections. And she basically said, yeah, you know, we didn't get
21:02some things right. We're going to go back to the drawing board and we're going to vow to do better
21:06going forward. But at the same time, she said that when it comes to the provisional suspensions,
21:12I think their words were, and I hope, well, I'm paraphrasing, but it was something to the
21:16effect that I'm a big fan of the general suspensions. And what that means is when a
21:22horse tests positive for a banned substance, something that's on their banned substance list,
21:28the trainer is immediately suspended. And then the process goes from there. They're suspended
21:33before the split sample comes back and before they've had a chance to appeal and have a hearing.
21:39Now, you know, it's a kind of a cliche, but it really does fit here. You're talking about a
21:44system where somebody is guilty until proven innocent. And this week we saw why this is a
21:49problem and why I think this is absolutely something they have to change. Trainer Mac
21:54McLean-Robertson, leading trainer every year, it seems, at Canterbury, got a provisional suspension
22:01after a horse of his tested positive for something called altranogist. He was provisionally suspended.
22:07He had no starts after July 2nd. Lo and behold, last week they came back with the split sample
22:14and the referee lab could not find the medication in the horse and he was exonerated. But he went
22:23from July 2nd to July 21, shut down, didn't run any horses. I can only imagine what the, you know,
22:30the mental toll was on him, not knowing what was going to happen, whether or not he was going to
22:34get a two-year suspension, which you can get. We saw some similar things that happened with the
22:39New York trainer, Ray Handel. And, you know, this, here's what Robertson had to say about this.
22:45He says, this is about as un-American as you get. Everyone in racing should oppose it. All Americans
22:51should oppose it. And look, you know, I've said before, HISA needed to do something so that we
22:58don't have these things take two years. But this is, they're going overboard here and the Mac
23:03Robertson case shows why. This guy didn't deserve to have three weeks on the sidelines when he,
23:08you know, in hindsight really doesn't appear that he did anything wrong.
23:12This is something they need to change. You know, I don't have as much of a problem with it, Bill.
23:19Okay. I really don't. People have for years been saying that it's time to come down hard on
23:26cheaters, that the sport is not hard enough on cheaters, that it's time to come down on trainers
23:33that have a positive test or medication overage, either for a banned substance or therapeutic
23:39medication and appeal, appeal, appeal, appeal, appeal. And then one year, two years, three years
23:47down the road, something's finally done about it. And then it's all watered down. I think people
23:52were really tired of all that. And I think that's one of the reasons why there was such momentum
23:56behind HISA. Other equine sports have provisional suspensions. And in this situation, I think it
24:04worked. There were, it was a 19 days. Yeah. It's not, it's not ideal. It's not, you would rather
24:11even be faster than 19 days, but I thought it was handled fairly expeditiously. In the vast
24:18majority of cases, a split sample is going to verify the original sample. In this case, it
24:25didn't. And I thought the wheels of justice work pretty quickly. And it's unfortunate that it
24:31happened to Mack Robertson, but he was exonerated and he was able to get back to business. When it
24:37works with someone who uses a banned substance and the split sample verifies that it was a banned
24:46substance, I think in that case, we would probably be cheering it. So, I don't have as much of a
24:53problem with it. Maybe it need, it will need to be tweaked. You know, that's part of what this
24:59whole process is. They said that Lisa Lazarus and others said that about HIWU and about HISA
25:05before we even enacted this, that there were going to be, it was going to be a learning curve. There
25:11were going to be some missteps. There was, you know, there are going to be some things that
25:14needed to be tweaked. You know, maybe this can be tweaked to make it even better. But I don't have
25:19as much of a problem with it. I really don't. I just want to interject one thing in there. And
25:25you said, use the word cheaters. And look, everybody wants to get the cheaters and want
25:29to get them now. And we want to deal with them in the most severe way possible, but nothing about
25:36this story. I mean, I don't follow Canterbury Downs Racing. I don't know a whole lot about this guy
25:41other than he wins a lot of races, but nothing that from the start of this, there was nothing
25:47to suggest that he is a quote unquote cheater, especially after the split sample came back
25:54negative. So if you want to go out and get the Jorge Navarro's of the world and the Jason services,
25:58yeah, you know, go get them. But, you know, there's some people here that are being dealt
26:05with very harshly when I just don't think the punishment and the crime fit one another.
26:10All right, so tomorrow, this is being recorded on a Tuesday. Tomorrow, Wednesday, I will be in a
26:16courtroom in Manhattan. No, I didn't do anything wrong, but I will be there. Yes, I have not been
26:24provisionally suspended either. So I'm allowed to work tomorrow. But I will be there to cover
26:30the latest and one of the last chapters in the very ugly occurrences that started back all the
26:38way in March 2020. Jason service is being sentenced on Wednesday. So we obviously don't
26:44know what's happening on Tuesday. What what what what the sentence is gonna be, though, it looks
26:49like it's gonna be about four years, and we'll report on it. My story will be in the Thoroughbred
26:54Daily News on Thursday. But in the meantime, the pre sentence submission heads that the government
27:04put in to the ghost of the judge, and then, you know, she takes that into consideration.
27:10There was some really interesting stuff in there about it said the owner of the horse. So presumably
27:16it's either Gary or Mary West. But since Gary seems to be kind of the the lead person in the
27:22West partnership, I assume that it was emails back and forth between Jason service and Gary West.
27:29And it just shed some light on the whole thing. And Gary West, he from the I don't think in a
27:34million years, he was implying that service was doing anything along the lines of what he was
27:40caught doing. But he was so concerned about dotting every I crossing every T and being squeaky clean
27:49in the race in Saudi Arabia, that this is from TD Thornton's reporting says the email chain started
27:54with the owner cautioning service that over there, they might consider a sugar cube illegal.
28:00The owner then stated if you need any help figuring out the rules, I will gladly pay for
28:05for you to get whatever advice you need service and replies. Sounds good. Just an FYI. Max has
28:10never been anything out of never been on anything out of the ordinary. As soon as he said that,
28:15like Pinocchio, his nose went about expanded about six feet out from his face. The owner
28:21then wrote back Jason consult whoever you need to consult and be 100% certain we don't have any
28:26kind of accidental drug violation. If you had to feed Max just hay and organic carrots for a month
28:31before the race do that too. I would be I would feel horrible to win a life changing race like
28:36this for everyone, only to find out we didn't do something right because we didn't know.
28:40I'll gladly pay for any reasonable consulting work we need to have done to be sure that we are
28:45quote unquote squeaky clean for the race. So not only was I you don't have to say allegedly anymore,
28:51he's he's confessed and he's already been found guilty. So not only was Jason service
28:59juicing the horse, he was lying to the West about it and lying through his teeth about it.
29:04And so another thing, this happened three years and three months ago, and we still haven't heard
29:11from the Saudi Jockey Club about what the heck they're going to do with the purse.
29:15What are they waiting for service? He's on his way to jail. He's pled guilty. Nobody is disputing
29:22that this horse was given drugs throughout his career. What more are they hoping to find out?
29:27I don't know. And Gary West, the owner of maximum security has encouraged and even implored the
29:34Saudi officials to distribute the purse to the runner up to midnight mizu. Right. And they still
29:43I mean, it's great to be able to run a 20 million dollar race and not even pay the winner. Maybe
29:48that's what they're doing here. I don't know. And the judge, Bill, that's going to be sentencing
29:52services, the same judge that's been hearing all these cases, Mary Kay, Mary Kay Vicasol
29:57and looking at all the transcripts, which are just fascinating to read the back and forth,
30:02not just between the emails service and Gary West, but between service and Navarro
30:07and some of the veterinarians in service and his assistant. The notion that that services
30:15legal team is trying to put forth pre sentencing, that he was manipulated by veterinarians,
30:23does not hold water when you read the transcripts. I think he's going to be he's going to be in big
30:31trouble when it comes to sentencing. Well, he's going to be spending the next several
30:35years in the Graybar Hotel. Certainly, that's going to be the outcome. And this Mary Kay
30:40Visconti, she is a badass. I've been in a couple of these courtrooms. She does not take any you
30:45know what from these people. And she does not show them much mercy. So Jason service is definitely on
30:52his way to prison. And looks like, you know, we'll know more, obviously, when later on in the week.
30:57And by the time you've seen this podcast, we'll probably have the news out that it looks like
31:00he's going to get about four years in prison. So and I think well deserved anyways.
31:06Sounds like you'll have an interesting time in the old courthouse. Meanwhile,
31:09on a more positive note, the TD and writers room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania
31:14Horse Breeders Association, the PA steak spread PA bread steaks program. This year 2023 consists
31:21of 29 steaks worth over $4 million. That's just for Pennsylvania breads alone. So it's a big deal.
31:28And we've talked a lot about Pennsylvania breads Caravel and Angel of Empire. Well,
31:32there is a new Pennsylvania bread graded stakes winner. Her name is roses for Deborah. She just
31:37won the grade three caress stakes at Saratoga. She's six for eight lifetime now that was her
31:42first graded stakes when she is trained by Christophe Clement. We'll be back after this
31:47message from the PHBA. The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania stallion
31:54series six races for PA sire PA bread two year olds at parks to $100,000 contest at five and a
32:02half for lunch on August 21st PA day at the races September 23rd PA Derby Day has two races at six
32:09and a half for lunch both with a $150,000 purse and in December two races going long each worth
32:16$200,000. For more go to pa bread.com. The Saratoga Minute is brought to you by Naira
32:24bets disarm is being pointed for the gym dandy stakes gunite is being pointed for the Vanderbilt
32:31they are both sons of gunrunner and in this week's edition our Katie Petrunia caught up with the
32:37trainer of disarm and gunite Steve Esmussen. Disarm make one of my favorite qualities about
32:52him is how much he looks like gunrunner you know the markings the color and definitely his head
32:58but you know talented horse fourth in this year's derby and come out of that with a nice win in the
33:04mat win but nice group assembled for the gym dandy this week and obviously we're hoping to
33:11have success here at Saratoga this summer with him and gunite you know he is uh gunrunners uh
33:20you know when won the hopeful here as from his initial crop and has always run extremely well
33:26here at Saratoga with his win last year in the Amsterdam and also we talked the hopeful win as
33:32a two-year-old and he's coming off probably his fastest race ever with his win at Churchill and so
33:38I mean get to run against elite power again and gunite's seen seen the best and it doesn't bother
33:50again the Saratoga Minute brought to you by Naira bets you can sign up now for Naira bets and get a
33:55matching deposit of up to 200 dollars bet any track anywhere anytime make a deposit
34:01within 30 days of signing up for your account bet twice that amount of your initial deposit
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34:11with promo code spa spa 200 to get your deposit match today the td and writers room brought to
34:20you by the green group a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
34:26industry and designed to save you taxes and we welcome in now the green group guests of the week
34:34big money mike smith who got the big money saturday in the haskell board go rocket ride
34:40winning for trainer dick mandela fellow hall of famer uh mike thanks for joining us here on the
34:45green group guests of the week segment and first of all tell us the background of how you got this
34:49mount uh you weren't his regular rider until the haskell i understand you worked him a bunch of
34:54times too so what did you learn had my eye on this cold for quite a while really he's just if
34:59if you've seen what you probably did he's just such a good looking horse uh the only thing uh
35:04that flabby and beat me to the punch uh early on and breezed him before i ever got a chance to so
35:11of course he rode him first time out and he won very impressive and then uh come right back after
35:15that and run a really good second in the steak race uh to that really nice cult of tim yach teams uh
35:22and then after that i thought maybe there was a chance i could get on him but ramon vespa's
35:26wind up on him and and won the stake on him and i'm not exactly sure you'll have to talk
35:31to mr mandela or ramon and ask him why he didn't show up there but for whatever the reason was i
35:36was glad he didn't and when i got the call that i was going to get to ride him a couple of weeks
35:40out i was just beside myself because i thought all along he was talented as it was and there's
35:46just so much room to get better to to improve and in working him i could see that so saturday
35:53at monmouth mike you were breaking from post position number one on go rocket ride bafford's
35:59big favorite arabian night was breaking from the outside look like on paper arabian night
36:05might have an early speed advantage i'm guessing you probably went into the race thinking you might
36:11have to do some of the dirty work to try to keep baffert's horse honest take us through what you
36:16were thinking as the gate opened run to the first turn and then as the race progressed yeah you're
36:22exactly right then that was a game plan game plan going in you know i talked to me and mr man me and
36:27mr mandela went over the race and we thought you know out of the one hole we need to go ahead and
36:31let him run out of there let him run into that first turn and then not just just give the lead
36:35up to to arabian night but i also thought there was some other speed in there as well that could
36:41maybe maybe push him and i was hoping maybe something like that would happen uh and it did
36:46uh the two horse you know really left there well running and and i could tell early on that he was
36:52gonna try and make the lead hoping that that being a long shot that no one would push him
36:56and then the outside broke extremely well as well and they kind of moved forward i was able to put
37:01enough distance in between those two and and the the horses behind me just to slide on out and man
37:06when that happened i was able to put my hands down and just give him a chance to relax and anyway they
37:10they were running right along i knew they were because michael was pretty quick as it was and
37:14and you know i mean i i let him run out of there so when they opened up to on me i knew they were
37:19running fast enough mike when you ride a horse for hall of famer dick mandela you've also ridden
37:24for hall of famer bob baffert you could see that johnny v was absolutely loaded i mean mandela
37:31even said man that guy's got his feet on the dashboard what's the mindset going into a race
37:37like this riding for dick and knowing you're up against perhaps one of the best in the game
37:41in hall of famer bob baffert i mean yeah anytime you race against you know bob you know his horses
37:46are ready uh even though he was lightly raced and hadn't running quite a while i know bob's
37:51going to have him ready he's not going to ship him all the way over there not you know not
37:55needing one uh which he still probably could have i mean you know he has a right to have gotten
38:00tired uh but i'm also riding mister mandela who's just an incredible horseman uh you know he's
38:06you just you just ride with extra confidence when you get the opportunity to ride for him
38:09really do and and i knew he had this call ready because i've been working with him you know and
38:14getting the chance to breeze him a few times really really helped me to know him a little
38:17bit and i knew he was ready to run well honestly i didn't i didn't i knew he was a talented call i
38:23didn't know he was that good he surprised me i mean mage came at me with a full head of steam
38:28heading for home and i thought wow you're gonna have to show me something that i don't know if
38:33you have or not man i mean he just put me back in the back in the seat when that cold got up to
38:37him and and just opened up and i was extremely impressed i think you guys could agree that i
38:43mean this was the deepest haskell i've seen in a long time i mean usually you'll see one horse
38:48that stands out or whatever but there were five in there they wouldn't have been surprised
38:52whatsoever if if five or six of them in there that they could have won uh so him for him to
38:58put away a field like that and draw away at the end going a mile eight certainly shows us that
39:02he should get the mile and a quarter and that and that he beat a really good bunch of horses
39:06mike is that extra gratifying because i can remember talking to you one morning at santa
39:12anita and you're like sorry sorry i'm trying to get on that cold mandela's i'm trying to get on
39:16that coat you chased this guy down you didn't get to ride him because ramon did last time but
39:22how gratifying is that for you your first grade one of the year on a colt that i think in the
39:27back of your mind you knew he was pretty damn good to get the win i've liked him for a long
39:33time uh it kind of reminds me of a situation that happened a few years back with a coat
39:39called omaha beach uh that i liked a whole lot early on and flavien was riding uh fortunate for
39:46me he was also riding another really talented coat for for holland offering he chose he chose
39:50that horse in the in the stake at oakland park uh and i was able to pick up uh omaha beach and
39:56he just got better and better and better and then that's the thing you know when you ride for mr
40:00mandela that they're gonna get better each and every race so so if you can catch one young like
40:05that in an early uh you know there's there's no telling how good this coat can turn out to be
40:11mike you won two the day before at delmar you won on saturday in the grade one haskell
40:15do you have 16 winners on the year um and your amounts have been very limited is that by design
40:21or are you a little bit dissatisfied with the level of business you've been getting this year
40:27i would have to go to the dissatisfied part uh bill uh just waiting for the right kind of horses
40:34you know and out here in california you know we got a little shortage of horses so it's gotten a
40:39little tougher you know but uh i just had to start getting out in the morning and working a little
40:43bit and try and build up some some day business just to keep me keep me fit and keep me uh around
40:50and not let people forget about me and and i did that and was able to to get some business built up
40:56a little bit and it started out to be pretty good so far and that always helps leading into a big
41:01race you know when you can start to meet out big and win a couple and just gave me a little
41:06extra confidence made me feel like i still got it so you know this question has come in every
41:11interview you have now this question is gonna come up right uh you turned 58 on august the 10th
41:18you're obviously still capable as we saw saturday of riding at a high level but how much longer
41:24do you think you can keep doing this how much longer do you want to keep doing this
41:29i'm really enjoying getting the opportunity to ride horses like like go rocket right i mean that
41:36you know as long as my body tells me i can do it and and so far or randy i mean it's it hadn't let
41:41me down uh you know i started if i did like i like like i've been saying for years if i did
41:46anything right in my career was i really took up physical fitness at an early age instead of playing
41:52golf and running around and on my days off i work 10 times harder than when i actually
41:58have to when it's time to ride uh so i'm really really in good shape i'm fit you know i run
42:04anywhere from five to eight miles a day uh train with my trainer personal trainers uh an hour a
42:11day and i do this on my day off all the time and i don't i don't go out to lunch until i get it
42:17until i get it done and i've been doing it now probably for about a good 25 30 years straight
42:26i'm i'm in incredible shape for my age so so long as i can stay healthy and and not get any
42:34injuries i don't see why i couldn't finish the year out maybe another good hard year
42:38we'll see what happens after that i mean i'm basically retired now it ain't like i'm doing
42:43look at me why would i give this up i mean i still get to compete at that level and it's
42:50just nothing like riding a great horse i just love horses so much i don't want to
42:55this is why i just be silly to give this up well mike what does a typical day look like because you
43:01most genuinely are the fittest guy in the room take me through your routine and perhaps i can
43:07almost see your guns like busting through that out of yours right now i know the guys aren't
43:12watching but i am so take us through thank you i appreciate that made me feel good but
43:20you know i'll i'll i do my own like my cardio i usually i like to run i like to put my headset
43:25on my ear ipods and just go for it like i said a good anywhere from a three to five mile run early
43:32i'll head to the gym at noon and hook up with my personal trainer and we'll
43:36we'll do a pretty a pretty good workout today for about an hour i'll come back and have lunch
43:41with my wife we'll hang out a little bit and then i'll run again before dinner and that's it twice
43:47you run twice a day you run on it twice and i've gotten my weight down so good and so natural
43:54i mean i was able to tag 19 the other day pretty nice and man i hadn't done that in a while
43:59you know been that natural you know where i just showed up and i was already that light usually i
44:03have to pull you know pull the weight to get there and just doing this twice a day running and just
44:09switched up my eating and not picking after dinner so much you know i'm a i'm a big cereal
44:15cereal guy after dinner so i kind of stopped that and started this two day two days twice a day
44:21running with a workout in between and man it just it just dropped off me i'm about 116 115 now
44:29naturally and i hadn't done that in quite a while and it's a lot of my i'm limber i feel real good
44:35you know so i'm just gonna keep this up until my body can't take that no more mike i tell my
44:41friends if you ever see me running call the police because somebody is behind me they're chasing me
44:47and they probably have a gun listen randy i'm not running very fast yeah i got i'm going out there
44:53and i'm running six minute miles you know i ain't doing nothing like that they're anywhere from nine
44:56to ten minute miles just nice and slow i love running heels so i run up here in carlsbad we
45:01got a lot of heels and i just love running up hills real real slow and man i mean the endurance
45:07that it gives you is just amazing mike if you play your cards right who knows you might be the next
45:11randy moss how did you do so you made your network television debut on the fox broadcast of
45:20the belmont stakes grade yourself how do you think you did you know maybe a c plus you know i i got i
45:27got room to grow but i enjoyed it enough that i know that i would i'll put the effort in uh
45:32a bit nervous early on not not not knowing the cameras and where to look and how to look and not
45:37used to someone talking in your ear is your is you're talking and so it was quite a and we were
45:43supposed to rehearse but i don't know if you remember uh bill that had that that smoke was
45:48going on and we didn't get to rehearse on friday so man i just went straight in without even
45:52rehearsing or anything and it was a little like i said it was a little nerve-wracking the first 10
45:5815 minutes and then i kind of settled down uh but yeah i enjoyed it uh it made me feel it made me
46:04feel good it still made me feel part of the game and that's something i would really like to do uh
46:09you know whenever it's time to hang the saddle up you know what the hardest part is mike and
46:13you probably got a glimpse of this it's saying what you want to say in the time that you're given
46:20to say it it's given 10 seconds and you know me i like to tell a little bit of a story so
46:25i just trying to figure out how to how to shorten it all you know and just get it out there and
46:30was a little was a little nerve-wracking for me but i'll i'll work at it and get better at it i
46:34watch a lot and i don't i watch you guys all the time so i'm learning well we genuinely look forward
46:40to seeing you on more broadcasts but not too soon because you're not retiring anytime soon i'm not
46:45done yet i'm not even close to done i have one last question if you could ride any race over again
46:53whether you won or you lost what would it be and who was it on
46:58i was in yada without a doubt uh last time i rode her um and i don't know if i could have done
47:04anything different i'm not sure you know win or lose but i know i finished second beating the
47:07nose and i want one more shot at it i can't i just can't let that go man i've tried hard
47:14but i still cry about it i just i just can't can't get over it i think that might have been
47:21the best race she ever ran and it could have been randy it really i mean it was in defeat i
47:26think she's truly showed what how good she really was i think you know a lot of people she she ran
47:31against a lot of times the same horses out here in california and although she did ship you know
47:35she went to oakland a couple of times and just absolutely loved the dirt i actually think she
47:40loves the dirt more than she did synthetic to be honest with you but but man i think she truly
47:46showed how good she was to to be that far back and only only come up a no short against that
47:52field in the classic was was just incredible gut wrench well mike thank you so much for your
47:58insights congratulations on the whatever what the big money mike smith big money haskell you came
48:04through with a great ride on go rocket ride and uh i'm going to set the over under on how much
48:09longer you'll ride at four years what do you think that's pretty good i like that bill okay
48:16and mike don't don't get too good at this tv thing okay i'm gonna dial it back it's just a
48:22little bit i already got the look going i got the randy moss look very good i think maybe jerry
48:30bailey needs to worry a little bit more than you randy but uh very good none of you guys have to
48:36worry i'll be happy just to get just to get a chance very good well mike thanks so much for
48:43your insights and spending a few minutes with us uh today on the tdn writers room podcast once
48:48again congratulations on the haskell win yeah thanks for having me on as this week's green
48:54group guest of the week big money mike smith will receive a free one hour tax consultation between
49:00jogs i'm sure for more information on how the green group can save you taxes visit www.greenco.com
49:09are you paying too much in taxes the green group can help there's a reason the most successful
49:14owners breeders and horsemen select the green group as their tax advisors they save you money
49:20and share successful strategies over the past 40 years the green group founder len green has owned
49:27and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport like eclipse award-winning
49:32champions jaywalk and wonder wheel his dj stable competes at the highest level and has received
49:37the game's most prestigious honors len green's in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined
49:43with cutting-edge tax saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele
49:48and has made the green group the top rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred
49:52business for a confidential and complimentary consultation contact us at 732-634-5100
50:00or visit our website at www.greenco.com the green group proven strategies to save you taxes
50:10with some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round there's never been
50:16a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in kentucky purse money in kentucky
50:23is at an all-time high as his average purse per race outpacing california florida and new york
50:30kentucky breads breed them raise them race them we all win
50:39grade one winners are bred in kentucky kentucky breads won two grade one events on saturday
50:44when go rocket ride took the grade one haskell at mammoth park earning a birth in the six million
50:49dollar breeder's cup classic and wet paint scored in the grade one coaching club american oaks at
50:55saratoga read them race them race them we all win another big weekend of racing with big races at
51:02both delmar and uh saratoga we've been talking a lot about the three-year-olds who talked to
51:06mike smith about go rocket ride and we talked of course about uh him winning the haskell stakes
51:11the jim dandy will be the race for three-year-olds on saturday at saratoga and right now now we're
51:17doing this again on a tuesday so we don't have the entries yet but there's uh four big names that are
51:22definitely lined up for the race forte angel of empire hit show and disarm uh the saturday card at
51:28saratoga also includes the vanderbilt leap power the leading sprinter in the country looks like
51:33he's going to go in that uh out at delmar the bing crosby for sprinters will uh be the grade one race
51:38on that card also the san diego handicap looks like they're going to get defunded the leading
51:42older horse uh in training in southern california going in that um we talked about a little bit
51:48earlier um but i think the story here is not only just forte in the jim dandy but the blinkers
51:54and you know he's a very good horse but he is a horse that looks a little erratic in his races
52:00you know he kind of doesn't look like he's going anywhere he's spinning his wheels and then he
52:04makes this late move looks like he's it looks like he just wants to run the last 16th of a mile
52:09um it'll be interesting to see what the blinkers do and uh yeah he's another one in the uh in the
52:14conversation for you know who is the best three-year-old i'm sure todd pletcher is hoping
52:19for an improved effort uh though nothing wrong with his race uh last time out in the uh belmont
52:24stakes yeah you know how we always describe proxy as as being a horse that you know saturday by the
52:31way yeah yeah yeah he did he did he didn't beat much but he won that's all that's all he needed
52:35to do um but forte has been running kind of like that it just his last two races though i didn't
52:42really notice it in the fountain of youth i didn't notice it in the breeders cup juvenile
52:46but in the florida derby think back now it looks a little bit better in hindsight but mage just
52:51blew his doors off going around the second turn and forte looked to be going absolutely nowhere
52:57and then when they straightened away here comes forte again and he manages to run mage down
53:01in the belmont stakes forte looked like he was getting absolutely nothing midway around the
53:07second turn horses were going by him right and left he was going the wrong direction and then
53:11here he comes again he picks it back up and he winds up finishing second in a remarkable performance
53:16given the layoff that he had because he had to be scratched from the kentucky derby look now that my
53:21two fills is out of action i i think you would i think you would have to say even though i've never
53:27been the greatest forte fan i think you would have to say that he deserves to be at the top of the
53:32heap right now among the three-year-olds i mean look he yeah he lost the belmont but before that
53:38in succession he won the hopeful the breeders futurity the breeders cup juvenile the fountain
53:43of youth and the florida derby before he had to be scratched from the kentucky derby so he has done
53:48nothing but win and if the boinkers do move him up at all in the gym dandy then that's just going
53:55to be icing on the cake the tdn writers room is brought to you by xp tv graded stakes winners
54:03hit show and angel of empire breezed five furlongs in company over saratoga's dirt track
54:08saturday as both horses prepare for the july the 29th grade to jim dandy we'll get to that in just
54:16a moment the pair stepped on the track 5 30 a.m i was there you'd better believe it angel of empire
54:22ridden by flavian pratt was on the inside he's always been a little bit better workhorse than
54:27hit show hit show was on the outside the thing that i did like about this work is that hit show
54:33can get a little bit rank in the morning sometimes he's a very hot-headed horse and i thought he
54:38worked very nicely alongside uh alongside angel of empire angel of empire and hit show like to
54:45stick together in their races too they were last seen finishing fourth in the belmont states we'll
54:50be right back after this message from xb tv
55:20all the thrills
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55:34experience the power of the partnership
55:40change your life make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing
55:45west point thoroughbreds the gold standard in racing partnerships visit westpointtv.com
55:54the td and riders room is brought to you by west point thoroughbreds joining a west point
55:58partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie right now terry finley and
56:03the whole west point group are really in a zone at saratoga preparing for the phasic tipton saratoga
56:08select yearling sale for good reason after all it was 2019 went on back-to-back nights west point
56:14and partners purchased flight line and also multiple graded stakes when her first captain
56:20i also buy horses privately don't forget that the two-year-old irish filly is on the way right now
56:25to train her tom morley in new york after west point and partners bought her privately
56:30after she made an impressive debut at nace i know zoe likes it when i climb way down
56:35into a rabbit hole this filly is named nato wessie okay which is the original name for the
56:43sioux indian tribe the sire of nato wessie sioux nation the coolmore stallion right there that's a
56:51very well-named horse and now belongs to west point west point two-year-olds are now sold out
56:56yearlings will be available for syndication in august for more information you can email
57:02debbie finley at debbie at west point tb.com mandy you keep coming up with information like that i
57:09think it's time for you to demand a raise okay i gotta climb out of the rabbit hole first
57:21hey well that's a wrap on this week's edition of thoroughbred daily news writers room podcast
57:25i want to thank my partners randy moss and zoe cabman i want to thank big money mike smith the
57:30green group guests of the week our co-editors katie petruniak and anthony larocca and our
57:35editors alia larocca and nathan wilkinson and where would a show be without our mascot
57:40lucy look at her oh lucy she's so cute and look at randy loves his dog we gotta love that goes
57:45down rabbit holes comes up with names of the sioux indian tribes uh oliver wendell holmes and he's a
57:51dog lover and that's why we enjoy having randy so much on the show each week thanks for catching
57:56us this week we'll talk to you next week here on the tdn writers room podcast
58:05you