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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the TDN, and unfortunately, a big Boston Red Sox fan.
00:00:36Oh, Bill.
00:00:37This is Randy Moss with NBC Sports back home where there are, where I live, no mudslides,
00:00:43no floods, no people being evacuated.
00:00:45I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing and Santa Anita.
00:00:49We are currently building an ark.
00:00:52Now they canceled racing on Sunday and the rains actually didn't come until about 3 o'clock,
00:00:57but it's been raining steadily since and it's supposed to rain all day.
00:01:01So if you look on the news, I've got it over in the corner.
00:01:04All you're seeing is women in rain boots, brand new rain boots and umbrellas showing
00:01:10pictures of puddles and a little bit of flowing water, but it will get bad.
00:01:14There have been several mudslides already, but I think where I am and Santa Anita is
00:01:19concerned, we're going to be absolutely fine.
00:01:21It's just, it's a little wet, that's all.
00:01:23I'm going to a water park later, like, cause it's not wet enough outside.
00:01:27I'm going to one with a whole lot of children.
00:01:31My worst nightmare in a petri dish at a water park.
00:01:35So wish me luck.
00:01:38You'll need it Zoe, you'll definitely need it.
00:01:41Bacteria, that's the key word, going to a water park with kids, you'll know why.
00:01:47All right guys, horse racing talk, isn't that what we're here for?
00:01:51By the way, we're brought to you each and every week by Keeneland and we thank them
00:01:54for their sponsorship.
00:01:56So we talked last week about the decision of the Baffert owners to keep their horses
00:02:02with him, which then meant they couldn't run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:06It's a storyline that we're probably going to be talking about every single week.
00:02:12And Churchill Downs' worst nightmare came true on Saturday when Nysos won the Robert
00:02:19B. Lewis by open lengths.
00:02:21I don't want to get too carried away, but he reminds me of Justify and also sort of
00:02:26the path that Justify took to get to the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:30So Churchill Downs wanted no controversy at the Derby, at 150.
00:02:35They didn't want Baffert to be there, be the story when they're celebrating the 150th Derby.
00:02:42Instead, I think what they've done is create a bigger controversy than ever, especially
00:02:47if the Baffert horses continue to do well on the road to the Triple Crown, because the
00:02:51story is not going to be who's in the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:54It's going to be where is Bob Baffert?
00:02:56Randy?
00:02:57You're exactly right.
00:02:58Assuming Nysos stays healthy and he makes it to the first Saturday in May in good shape
00:03:05and we assume will be appointed for the Preakness at that point, I think Churchill Downs is
00:03:11looking at a scenario in which for their prized 150-year anniversary celebration of
00:03:19the Kentucky Derby, you know, the big story that people are going to be talking about
00:03:24is the fact that you've got a potential Triple Crown winner, assuming Nysos goes on and wins
00:03:30the Santa Anita Derby like he did, you know, the race on Saturday, that's not there.
00:03:38And I've had people tell me, oh, Churchill Downs doesn't care.
00:03:43They're going to have, it's going to be sold out.
00:03:45Every seat's going to be taken.
00:03:46They're going to make all their money.
00:03:47I think they do care.
00:03:53When Churchill Downs announces its stakes schedule every year, okay, typically, and
00:03:58I've gone back and looked at the news articles in past years, it's usually in either March
00:04:03or mid-February.
00:04:06This year, they announced their stakes schedule along with the new $5 million Derby purse
00:04:12January the 10th.
00:04:15I don't think that was an accident.
00:04:16I think they released that stakes schedule with the new purse for the Derby intentionally
00:04:23slightly before the deadline for the owners to transfer their horses away from Bob Baffert.
00:04:29I think they kind of maybe feared in the back of their mind that there might be a little
00:04:34backlash from Baffert's owners because this seems like a little bit of a personal thing
00:04:40to extend the ban from two years to three years and to try to maybe inoculate themselves
00:04:48from that.
00:04:49They wanted to make sure the owners knew ahead of time that, hey, the purse this year, it's
00:04:53going to be up to $5 million.
00:04:55So I think they do care about getting the very best horses in the Kentucky Derby.
00:05:00And I think they will definitely care if Nysos goes on and, to me, he looks like the
00:05:05best horse Baffert's had since Justified.
00:05:08If he continues on that role, it's going to be a big story on the first Saturday in May
00:05:13that they wish they didn't have to deal with.
00:05:16Yeah, you guys hit the nail right on the head.
00:05:20It's going to be a huge story.
00:05:22But before we get ahead of the story, let's talk about the horse.
00:05:26How good was Nysos on Saturday?
00:05:29We saw his two previous starts, 96, 97 buyer.
00:05:32He popped 105 with Pratt, seemingly just not moving in the irons.
00:05:37Now, I was in the paddock.
00:05:39I can remember looking at this horse at the two-year-old sales.
00:05:42Best of luck, sold him.
00:05:44He worked in nine and four.
00:05:46Beautiful mover, medium-sized horse, kind of, he was a cool dude is what I wrote in
00:05:50the catalog.
00:05:51Good mover, cool dude, not overly big, medium size, kind of like a brown paper bag.
00:05:58And seeing him in the paddock on Saturday, I'm watching him walk around.
00:06:01I'm standing next to Kurt Hoover from FanDuel, I'm like, ah, this doesn't seem like there's
00:06:07much sparkle there today.
00:06:09He just walked around the paddock like an old pony, not very big, just this little unassuming
00:06:15brown paper bag.
00:06:16He gets on the racetrack, yeah, nothing, gates open, he's on it.
00:06:22Perfect ride by Pratt, didn't get away terribly great, got into a good position, took some
00:06:28dirt, did everything you want to see, and when Pratt pressed the button, he just absolutely
00:06:33took off.
00:06:34It was flawless from Nysos, and they really are going to miss him from the Derby.
00:06:39And one other thing that, you know, I think we should mention is the Derby points system.
00:06:44Now, obviously, Baffert's horses aren't eligible for the points, so those points are negated.
00:06:50But if Baffert just say, you know, just say Baffert was to win every prep, run first and
00:06:56second like he did on Saturday, he might theoretically keep out the second, third best
00:07:02horse out of the Derby because they're not garnering those points.
00:07:06So I think trainers are going to have to look at where's Bob going?
00:07:10What if he's taking this one this way?
00:07:12What if he's taking that one that way?
00:07:13Obviously, that did not happen on Saturday at Oak Lawn with his horse running there.
00:07:18But it's certainly something to be considered, don't you think?
00:07:21Oh, yeah.
00:07:22Go ahead, Randy.
00:07:24Yeah, I mean, I think there's a potential scenario where if Nysos, you know, heads to
00:07:31the Santa Anita Derby and you're the owner or trainer of a really good three-year-old
00:07:35out there who needs points badly to get in the Kentucky Derby, you may be forced to leave
00:07:40town to run a prep elsewhere to get away from Nysos, which is going to make the competition
00:07:47even easier for Nysos in the Santa Anita Derby and make it even more likely that he's going
00:07:51to win by eight or nine or ten or whatever.
00:07:54But man, I agree with you.
00:07:55He looked in.
00:07:56I know, Bill, you got to feel the same way.
00:07:57He looked awesome.
00:07:58Yeah.
00:07:59I mean, I want to get back to that point.
00:08:01And, you know, I didn't doubt that he would run well, but he did have a couple of tests
00:08:05to get by.
00:08:06This is his first race around two turns.
00:08:09It was obviously against stiffer competition, Baffert, and you remember Baffert won two
00:08:14here too.
00:08:15So you talk about those Derby points.
00:08:17Here we go.
00:08:18He didn't just win the race.
00:08:19He ran second.
00:08:20Randy, you and I brought up the same horse.
00:08:22Look, I can't call him the next justify after three starts.
00:08:27And we're not probably if he doesn't run the Kentucky Derby, he's not going to be able
00:08:31to be the next justify because he's not able to win the Triple Crown.
00:08:34But he's definitely the horse that reminds me most of him.
00:08:38And, you know, again, careful not to get too carried away here with a hyperbole or whatnot.
00:08:44But I do agree with what you said 100 percent of all the good three year olds Baffert has
00:08:49had.
00:08:51I think he's the best one since justify.
00:08:54And you know what?
00:08:55And he's got five or six good ones behind him as well.
00:08:57So, you know, it could be what if, you know, Maymoon, the horse that broke his mane.
00:09:02What if he comes in and starts winning everything left and right?
00:09:05It might not be just about Nysos.
00:09:07And you know, Churchill, you shot yourselves in the foot, guys.
00:09:11Yeah.
00:09:12And how about the day that Pratt had the week that Pratt has had three stakes on Saturday
00:09:16at Santa Anita.
00:09:18He's won seven stakes this year, including the Pegasus World Cup.
00:09:21So he's on an absolute tear as of now and looks like he's got the best older sprinter,
00:09:27best three year old Philly and the best three year old Colton, Southern California, right
00:09:31at his fingertips.
00:09:32I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers Room is brought to you each and every week
00:09:37by Keeneland.
00:09:39Tickets for the Keeneland Spring Meet, which runs from April the 5th through April the
00:09:4326th, will go on sale on February the 20th.
00:09:47And Keeneland, again, is accepting entries for the 2024 April Horses of Racing Age Sale,
00:09:53which will be held on Friday, April the 26th after the races on closing day of the Spring
00:09:59Meet.
00:10:00We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:10:07At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:10:14Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:10:21Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard, not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:10:29For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:10:34The fastest source of the week is brought to you by the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:10:40Windstar Stallion Audibles.
00:10:42Sons and daughters are making noise on the track.
00:10:45You get that wordplay there?
00:10:46Audible making noise.
00:10:48Three-year-old Philly likes it.
00:10:49Thank you, Zoe.
00:10:50Three-year-old Philly.
00:10:51I didn't write it, but I'm reading it.
00:10:52Three-year-old Philly likes an Audible.
00:10:54Earned her first graded stakes win when she rallied on the Holy Bull undercard for Mike
00:10:59Rapoli and Todd Pletcher to win the $175,000 Sweetest Chant Stakes, Grade 3.
00:11:05And now with his debut crop, Audible ranks third among active sires.
00:11:10Here's a new metric.
00:11:11By average winning buyer speed figure.
00:11:15It's a 68, which ranks higher than sires like Justify, Quality Road, and Tap It.
00:11:22And better yet, Audible stands for only $15,000 at Windstar Farm.
00:11:29Fastest source of the week, as usual.
00:11:31We've already talked about him.
00:11:32And that would be Nysos.
00:11:34As you guys mentioned, he upped his ante there last weekend with a career high buyer speed
00:11:41figure of 105, which definitely puts him in that range in February of horses like Justify
00:11:49and even American Pharaoh.
00:11:51So, Nysos is our fastest horse of the week.
00:11:59Well, the fastest horse of the week did not come out of the Holy Bull stakes where the
00:12:03buyer figure was a 90, but it was won by Hades, co-owned by former TDN Writers Room
00:12:09podcaster John Green.
00:12:11But of course, the big story was not so much who won.
00:12:13It was who didn't.
00:12:15Fierceness at one to five.
00:12:17I didn't think there was any prayer that he could lose this race.
00:12:21I mean, on form, numbers.
00:12:23Matter of fact, you look at the numbers and the thoroughgraft sheets and the buyers.
00:12:27I mean, he literally looked like he was 15 lengths faster than anybody else.
00:12:33What did he do?
00:12:34He ran a flat kind of lifeless race, settled in for third behind Hades and a Chad Brown
00:12:40horse that came up to finish second.
00:12:42I checked in with Mike Rapoli yesterday to find out if the horse came out of the race.
00:12:47Okay.
00:12:48He said he did.
00:12:49I said, what was the problem?
00:12:50He blamed it all on the trip.
00:12:52Zoe, I didn't think this horse's trip was that bad at all.
00:12:55And I think there's nothing else you can do but call it a very disappointing effort.
00:12:59It was disappointing.
00:13:00Yes, it was.
00:13:01And what Fierceness has shown in the two stars that he's been badly beaten is he has not
00:13:07managed to overcome adversity and a little bit of trouble, which makes a really good
00:13:13horse.
00:13:14You don't have to be the best horse, but you have to be able to overcome stuff, especially
00:13:17when you're going forward in these big triple crown races with big fields.
00:13:21Now, he broke.
00:13:22Okay.
00:13:23He got a little bit pinch and Johnny V did the right thing.
00:13:27He wanted to ride him like the best horse.
00:13:29So he sent him forward and he sent him hard and he got position going into that turn.
00:13:35Now, the fact that he sent him so hard, lit a fire under Fierceness's bum, if you want
00:13:41to call it that.
00:13:42And he was a little bit ranked down the backside and jumped right into the bridle, probably
00:13:47a little bit more than Johnny V wanted him to do.
00:13:50And from then, I think maybe he ran his race down the backside or things just didn't go
00:13:54his way after being pinballed at the start.
00:13:57But if you're going to be a champion, you need to be able to overcome a little bit more
00:14:02adversity than that.
00:14:04And I don't know if he just needs a bit more racing, a bit more seasoning to be able to
00:14:09overcome something like that.
00:14:11But it was a disappointing effort, in my opinion.
00:14:15Yeah.
00:14:16I mean, I think Mike Rapoli was right.
00:14:18And I think you guys are right.
00:14:20I think both statements are true.
00:14:23I thought he did get into some significant trouble early in the race for a horse that
00:14:28likes to be placed where he likes to be placed, up near the front.
00:14:32It required some interventionalist tactics by John Velasquez to get him up there.
00:14:38But I thought the early trouble was significant.
00:14:41But I also thought he was disappointing because even though he did get a little keen, get
00:14:49a little rank when Johnny lit him up to get him up there, they went to half in 50 in the
00:14:55first quarter in 25.
00:14:57So it's not like he used an excessive amount of energy to have to rush up into that kind
00:15:02of a pace.
00:15:03And when he takes a half-length lead or so, or a neck lead, late backstretch going around
00:15:09the second turn, you're supposed to win a race like that.
00:15:13Even with the early trouble, if you have the sort of talent advantage that it looked
00:15:18like fierceness had on paper.
00:15:20And instead, as you pointed out, now both starts, the Champagne is a two-year-old and
00:15:26now the Holy Bull, in which he's encountered any sort of adverse circumstances.
00:15:32He did not handle it well at all.
00:15:35Now, what does this mean going forward?
00:15:37It may be the Breeders' Cup Juvenile all over again.
00:15:40If he comes back in the Florida Derby and gets the kind of trip that he got in the Breeders'
00:15:45Cup, it makes the horse a bit of an enigma.
00:15:48But I definitely agree that I thought he was disappointing.
00:15:52Hades, on the other hand, he was really impressive in the allowance win on New Year's Eve when
00:16:01he ran the last eighth of a mile and 12 and change after setting the pace in a one-turn
00:16:06mile race.
00:16:08And I mean, his stretch kick from the eighth pole to the wire in the Holy Bull was flattered
00:16:17a little bit by the fact that fierceness at that point was going the other direction.
00:16:23And so was the other horse that was up there.
00:16:26But still, I mean, I don't, I wouldn't put Hades right now, you know, in my really upper
00:16:35tier of Kentucky Derby contenders.
00:16:37But I do put him somewhere like in the track phantom range, the horse of Asmussen's that
00:16:42we saw win the LeCamp.
00:16:44I think they're kind of comparable horses, you know, nice horses.
00:16:49And Hades looked good for Joe.
00:16:53Congratulations to Joe Orsino.
00:16:55He looks like a legitimate Derby horse.
00:16:58Randy, when apparently you guys changed the figure after originally giving the horse an
00:17:0485, then it's a 90.
00:17:06And a 90 at this point for a three-year-old prep race is not good anyways, but 85 looks
00:17:11even worse.
00:17:12What was the story behind that?
00:17:14Well, unfortunately, anybody that makes speed figures, regardless of whether you're the
00:17:20Bayer team or Equibase or Ragazin or Thorograf, is aware of the challenges right now in making
00:17:26numbers at Gulfstream Park because they have three distinct racing surfaces that divide up all
00:17:32the races each day.
00:17:33And the sample size is not very big.
00:17:35Initially, we went back and we looked at Hades' allowance win on March 31st, okay, which was
00:17:43given a Bayer speed figure that day of an 84.
00:17:46And an 84 looked like it was the right number for New Year's Eve at Gulfstream Park.
00:17:51But there were only three dirt races that day, and they were all for two-year-olds.
00:17:56And all the horses coming out of those races have come back and have run much better numbers
00:18:01than we gave them.
00:18:02So, we all put our heads together, and in hindsight, we looked at things, and we upped
00:18:08Hades' New Year's Eve win from an 84 to a 90 because that's what the evidence showed.
00:18:14And therefore, it looked like that that was the logical number for the Holy Bowl.
00:18:19You couldn't go by your normal track variant because the pace was so slow.
00:18:23So, you had to kind of make an educated guess as to what the number probably should be.
00:18:28So now, officially, that's why Hades has, next time he runs, you'll see in the form
00:18:33his last two races, 90 and 90.
00:18:36I just wanted to mention really quick, guys, we mentioned this last week, Ocala Stud,
00:18:42the breeders on Hades.
00:18:44This horse is probably in the field with fierceness at some time because they broke all the babies
00:18:50there for Ripoli.
00:18:51So, Ocala Stud are going to have a big role in this year's Kentucky Derby at some point.
00:18:57And they're really good horsemen down there and do a terrific job.
00:19:00So, I just wanted to give the O'Farrills a quick shout out for the great work that they're doing.
00:19:06Maybe Hades recognized him.
00:19:08Maybe he remembered him from the field and said, wait a second, I remember this horse.
00:19:13I can't outrun this horse.
00:19:18All right, guys, let's head down to Oaklawn Park where they ran the Southwest Stakes.
00:19:23And this one was hard to see coming.
00:19:26I mean, Mystic Dan, trained by Ken McPete, who we're going to talk to a little bit later
00:19:30as the Green Group Guest of the Week, he ran a terrific race.
00:19:34Wins by eight lengths, got a 101 buyer figure.
00:19:38I thought perhaps the difference was that they used different tactics.
00:19:42They took him off the pace this time, whereas before he was closer to the pace.
00:19:46And he certainly seemed to react well to that.
00:19:49You also got to give credit to Brian Hernandez Jr.
00:19:52He pulled a Ryan Moore.
00:19:53I mean, he cut every corner, stayed on that rail, and got the job done.
00:19:58And even though he didn't win and even though he's beaten eight lengths,
00:20:01kind of fun to see Wayne Lucas get in there with just steel, pick up a few points.
00:20:06Because you know Wayne, if his horse can make the Derby, he's going to get him in there.
00:20:10But, you know, Randy, how seriously do you take this horse?
00:20:13I mean, some people may say, oh, it was the mud.
00:20:15That's what it was.
00:20:17I want to see what he does in his next start, which is presumably going to be the Arkansas Derby.
00:20:21But, hey, this was a very good performance from this horse.
00:20:24It was a sloppy track, and maybe he absolutely loved a sloppy track.
00:20:28He got a rail run on both turns, improbable from the number 10 post.
00:20:33But Brian Hernandez steered him right to the inside, and that probably worked in his favor as well.
00:20:39Smarty Jones, the last time he ran, he was up on the pace.
00:20:42I think the new tactics made a big difference as well.
00:20:45But I tell you what, that horse was striding out now the last quarter of a mile.
00:20:50You look at him running down the lane, and you're like, wow.
00:20:54I mean, here's how well that horse ran, okay?
00:20:58Nice Oster in his last quarter mile in 25.54 seconds at Santa Anita.
00:21:06He wasn't being asked.
00:21:08You know, he was well within himself, but a nice run.
00:21:11Hades ran his final quarter of a mile in the Holy Bull in 25.66 seconds, okay?
00:21:18The Southwest final quarter mile for the winner was 23.74 seconds.
00:21:27That's close to two full seconds faster than Nysos ran his final quarter.
00:21:33I'm not suggesting this horse is Nysos in any way.
00:21:36But the way he was striding out the last quarter mile was not an illusion.
00:21:42That horse was doing some serious running down the stretch of the Southwest,
00:21:47and that's why he got a buyer figure of 101.
00:21:49He looked incredible.
00:21:52Not only visually, when you look at the final time, like you mentioned,
00:21:56143.6 seconds as opposed to 146.02, I think, at the Holy Bull for Hades.
00:22:05So a full three seconds faster than Hades ran at Goldstream.
00:22:11We know the track is a little bit slower, but the way he did it,
00:22:14he showed adversity.
00:22:16He ran into the mud.
00:22:17Brian Hernandez did a terrific job.
00:22:19He also won the Phillies version, the Martha Washington with, gosh,
00:22:23what's her name, Band of Gold for Kenny McPeak.
00:22:26We'll be hearing from Kenny a little bit later on,
00:22:29maybe tomorrow from Kenny McPeak,
00:22:31so it'll be really fun to see what he says about these two.
00:22:34But I'd never really heard of the horse, to be perfectly honest.
00:22:37He was not on my radar whatsoever, but he is firmly on it now.
00:22:41And he owns a win at Churchill Downs, which is oh so important.
00:22:46And it's also important the way he won that race at Churchill Downs,
00:22:51because this race didn't just come out of nowhere.
00:22:54When he broke his maiden at Churchill Downs as a 2-year-old in the late
00:23:00summer, early fall, he got a buyer speed figure of 96.
00:23:04Yeah.
00:23:05I mean, when I saw that right there, I thought at the time, I thought, wow.
00:23:10I mean, this could wind up being literally the best 2-year-old in the
00:23:13country or one of the best 2-year-olds in the country.
00:23:15Came back in his next start, he was disappointing.
00:23:17McPeak said he was sick.
00:23:19Then he makes his next start in the Smarty Jones at Oaklawn.
00:23:22There was no excuse given for that.
00:23:24But I think maybe being up on the lead head-to-head tactically might not have
00:23:30been the way he likes to be ridden, and he bounced back with another big
00:23:33speed figure in the southwest.
00:23:35So it's going to be really interesting to see on a dry racetrack,
00:23:38assuming Oaklawn never gets a dry racetrack for a 3-year-old prep race,
00:23:42to see how this horse runs.
00:23:45Yeah, not going to happen, Randy.
00:23:47Wishful thinking, not going to happen.
00:23:51All right.
00:23:52Let's turn our attention to Aqueduct.
00:23:54I don't have much to say about the Wither Stakes.
00:23:56I don't think it's going to have much impact on the Kentucky Derby,
00:23:59but I've been dying to do this, Zoe.
00:24:01I am going to stump Randy on the origin of a name of a horse.
00:24:07Oh, I love it.
00:24:08Uncle Heavy, the winner.
00:24:10Do you have any idea where you got that name from?
00:24:12You've stumped me already?
00:24:14You have to think about it, Bill.
00:24:15You have stumped me.
00:24:17Okay.
00:24:18It's trained by Butch Reed.
00:24:19Uncle Heavy is his brother, Mark Reed, and that's his nickname.
00:24:24Now, it's not because he's fat.
00:24:26It's because he was an outstanding wrestler in the heavyweight division in college.
00:24:33So Uncle Heavy, brother, Mark, Butch Reed.
00:24:39So you can save that one next time down the line.
00:24:41I will.
00:24:42I will.
00:24:43I love it.
00:24:44I got him.
00:24:45I got him good.
00:24:46Well done, Bill.
00:24:47Yes.
00:24:48But beyond that, I mean, it is what it is.
00:24:50The Withers, it was not a very strong race.
00:24:53Congratulations to Butch Reed, who's a terrific trainer out of Parks
00:24:57and does such a good job.
00:24:59But I don't really have anything else to add besides the little cute anecdote
00:25:02about the name.
00:25:04Fifth-graded Stakes winner for social inclusion who stands at Woodford.
00:25:09So the guys at Woodford have got to be very, very happy with that.
00:25:13And we'll see where he goes next.
00:25:15I mean, it looks like perhaps he's going to stay in New York.
00:25:18He looked good.
00:25:19Uncle Heavy.
00:25:20I like the name.
00:25:21It's cool.
00:25:22Can I tell you about my latest rabbit hole escapade?
00:25:24Oh, yeah.
00:25:25You think I'm the king of the rabbit holes, as Zoe likes to call me, right?
00:25:29So this probably has more to do with fierceness than anything else,
00:25:33and maybe even next year a little bit more than this year.
00:25:36So fierceness was the favorite in the last Kentucky Derby future wager, right?
00:25:42And understandably so.
00:25:44So I wondered, how have other horses that were favored in the late January,
00:25:51early February Kentucky future wager gone on to do?
00:25:56And it's not easy to find.
00:25:58So I went to newspapers.com, which is one of my favorite resources,
00:26:03and I went back year to year to year to year,
00:26:07and I searched just for specific dates
00:26:10and just for specific pools of the Kentucky Derby future wager,
00:26:14and I wrote down every horse that was the favorite in those particular pools
00:26:19from 1999, which was the beginning of the Kentucky Derby future wager,
00:26:24until 2023.
00:26:27Twenty-five horses in all were favored in the late January,
00:26:31early February future wager.
00:26:34Wild guess, guys.
00:26:35How many of those 25 do you think went on to win the Kentucky Derby?
00:26:40Zero.
00:26:41Five.
00:26:42Zero.
00:26:44Red.
00:26:45Absolutely none.
00:26:47I thought that probably Street Sense would have been the favorite,
00:26:52given his Breeders' Cup Juvenile win at Churchill Downs,
00:26:56but no, no biz like Showbiz was actually the favorite
00:27:01on that particular Derby pool.
00:27:04And then I thought maybe Nyquist would have been the favorite for his,
00:27:08but no, that wasn't the case either.
00:27:10I think that was Texas Red.
00:27:12So zero for 25, and Fierceness we'll see, but, you know,
00:27:18could be zero for 26.
00:27:20It's no wonder you don't have any hair.
00:27:22No wonder.
00:27:27You're coming up with this.
00:27:28You're just pulling it out as you're going along.
00:27:33And my latest rabbit hole.
00:27:35The TD and Writers Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:27:38Association.
00:27:39The winner of the Withers Uncle Heavy,
00:27:41not only named after the brother of trainer Butch Reed,
00:27:45he's also a Pennsylvania bred.
00:27:47How about that?
00:27:48Three cheers to the Keystone State for another Pennsylvania bred big race
00:27:53winner.
00:27:54He got up to win it by picking up 20 Kentucky Derby points.
00:27:57He was bred by Barbara Reed, trained by Butch Reed.
00:28:01He's the son of social inclusion,
00:28:03and that follows an impressive performance for Uncle Heavy and the weight for
00:28:07its stakes, which was one of those races.
00:28:09And we've been talking about the PA sired,
00:28:11PA bred races that we all follow throughout the year.
00:28:15If you're interested in breeding to Pennsylvania,
00:28:17you can breed to a registered PA stallion,
00:28:20receive a 40% breeders award for first, second, and third.
00:28:24And you're also eligible, of course,
00:28:26for that series for two-year-olds and now for three-year-olds,
00:28:29you can check out the 2024 stallion and boarding farm directory,
00:28:34which is available at the PHBA's website at www.pabred.com.
00:28:43PA bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:28:47The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United
00:28:52States.
00:28:54Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:28:58Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
00:29:02Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state bred program in the country,
00:29:06bar none.
00:29:07The best breeders awards and stallion awards in the country.
00:29:11Respect the law, he's earned it.
00:29:14A grade one winning juvenile.
00:29:17Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:29:20A classic winning three-year-old.
00:29:22Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the triple crown.
00:29:26Five triple digit buyers.
00:29:28Respect the law.
00:29:29Tis the law.
00:29:30The best son of Red Hot Sire Constitution.
00:29:34He's left the others behind.
00:29:36He's going to win the Run Happy Travers.
00:29:38Tis the law.
00:29:41It's time for the Coolmore Stallion of the Week.
00:29:43And this week, that is Tis the law.
00:29:45First two-year-olds will race in 2024.
00:29:48The big race last week, of course, was the Holy Bull.
00:29:50And it was in the Holy Bull in 2020,
00:29:52where Tis the law started his impressive four-race winning streak.
00:29:55He had won the grade one champagne at two.
00:29:57And after his three-length win in the Holy Bull,
00:29:59he would go on to win the grade one Florida Derby,
00:30:01grade one Belmont Stakes, and grade one Traverse Stakes.
00:30:04In fact, Tis the law was a far better race horse than his sire constitution,
00:30:08his grand sire Tappet, or even his great grand sire, Paul,
00:30:12but that's a pretty fancy company.
00:30:14In fact, just like his great, great grand sire, AP Indy,
00:30:18he won four grade one races,
00:30:19including one as a juvenile in the Belmont Stakes at three.
00:30:22Classic winner Tis the law stands at Coolmore for a fee of $20,000.
00:30:27The TD and Riders Room is brought to you by the Green Group,
00:30:30a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:30:34and especially designed to save you taxes.
00:30:40And we welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week,
00:30:42the hottest man in horse racing,
00:30:44Kenny McPete coming off a huge weekend at Oaklawn Park where he won both the
00:30:48Martha Washington Stakes and the Southwest Stakes. Congratulations, Kenny.
00:30:53We want to get to all that, but we have a chance, as you're well aware,
00:30:57of a major passing in horse racing last night in Toby Keith.
00:31:02And I know you helped his team pick out horses at the sales.
00:31:06Tell us a little bit about what you did for him and your recollections of him
00:31:10and your remembrances of him.
00:31:12Well, fantastic guy, Toby Keith. Real loss for the sport.
00:31:17I was kind of surprised, you know.
00:31:19I knew he'd been fighting some health issues,
00:31:21but I didn't think that this would be as sudden as it is.
00:31:25And I had worked directly with Chris Bakari at several of the auctions,
00:31:30and we had partnered a list of really, really nice horses for Toby that we were
00:31:35looking forward to racing for him over the next several years.
00:31:38And I'm not sure how all that unfolds.
00:31:40But just a real special guy for the sport and, you know, for all of us,
00:31:45just a sad moment.
00:31:47All right. Well, let's get to the Southwest Stakes, won by Mystic Dan.
00:31:52And, Kenny, sometimes, you know,
00:31:53trainers aren't surprised, even though the horse was a long shot.
00:31:56You used to tell me I wasn't surprised that the horse won.
00:31:59Were you surprised that he won by eight lengths?
00:32:02Well, yeah, I think the eight lengths definitely surprised me.
00:32:06But this horse is really fast, has been from the beginning.
00:32:11And initially, you know, I ran him twice in sprint races,
00:32:15and I really, after I did that,
00:32:18I kind of regretted it a little bit because we had to retool him a little bit.
00:32:22He's so quick that you had to kind of reteach him,
00:32:26and he needed to learn how to go longer.
00:32:29And what he did this past weekend was pretty special in the sense that we've
00:32:34been a lot of repetition, setting off horses,
00:32:37letting him just go easy and then learn to utilize that speed the last three
00:32:43furlongs. And, man, he was shot out of a cannon.
00:32:45And, you know, a lot of credit goes to a list of people, you know, Greg Geyer,
00:32:49my assistant down at the fairgrounds,
00:32:51and Brian Hernandez had been getting on the horse regularly.
00:32:54But he was so classy in the paddock this past weekend.
00:32:59He stood there like a statue when we were saddling him.
00:33:02And this is the kind of mind that you need for these high-level races.
00:33:06And he may very well be that perfect type.
00:33:09Well, you've certainly been around enough good ones.
00:33:12I'm apologizing in advance, Kenny. It's great to see you.
00:33:15I'm at the Great Wolf Lodge.
00:33:17So if you hear a bunch of screaming children, they're not mine.
00:33:20They're getting excited to go into a water park. So apologies in advance.
00:33:24But back to your horse and back to Brian Hernandez.
00:33:28The ride he gave Mystic Dan was unbelievable.
00:33:33Are you a believer that he's one of the most underrated riders in the sport?
00:33:38Obviously, he had the horse, partly because of you and your team that got him ready.
00:33:42But I thought that was terrific.
00:33:44Well, we're going on working together for pushing a decade now.
00:33:48And, you know, I think Brian, I don't want anybody else to use him.
00:33:54I mean, I don't need to toot his horn too loud because it might get me in trouble.
00:33:59But, you know, look, he's a consummate professional.
00:34:02There's nothing complicated about how he rides.
00:34:05There's not really a whole lot complicated about how we manage our horses either.
00:34:09But he's part of a team, and there's a lot of continuity with working with Brian.
00:34:15If I say, hey, we're working 5.30 tomorrow morning, it doesn't matter what time.
00:34:20He's always 15 minutes early, which is a rarity for jockeys sometimes,
00:34:26usually racing to get in and get on and get out into the next one.
00:34:29But the other one that probably deserves a big tip of the hat is Frank Bernice, his agent.
00:34:35So Frank and I go over a list of horses on a regular basis, and we discuss the options.
00:34:41And, yeah, Brian's my first choice.
00:34:44I don't put him on many horses where he comes back and something was ridiculously wrong or handled wrong.
00:34:52Most of the time, if something went wrong, it's because he got caught in traffic or, you know,
00:34:58just a series of events that he couldn't control.
00:35:00And he'd be the first one to tell you that didn't go right.
00:35:04And that's reminiscent of Pat Day.
00:35:06Pat Day, when he rode for us back years ago, Pat would get off and say, well, that didn't go too well.
00:35:11He was the first one to admit when it went right.
00:35:14You don't have to bring it up to Brian.
00:35:16He knows.
00:35:17And I typically don't give him very much instruction unless it's a horse he just doesn't know anything about.
00:35:22But most all of them he knows in our stable.
00:35:25Kenny, one of the differences was this horse was racing a lot closer to the pace in recent races,
00:35:31and Brian took him back this time.
00:35:34Was that the plan?
00:35:35And do you think that that was to this horse's benefit?
00:35:39Well, that's coming from the two times that I sprinted him.
00:35:43So his mind was thinking, I got to go because I'm going to run three quarters or five and a half.
00:35:49And now we've got to go a mile on the 16th.
00:35:53So that changes that dynamic.
00:35:56It took a couple of races.
00:35:58And his third start was a toss because he kicked up a lung infection.
00:36:01And in all honesty, I shouldn't have run him back.
00:36:04I ran him back in two weeks because I thought this was a race he'd win pretty easy.
00:36:08It didn't happen.
00:36:10But the last two starts, you know, he showed speed in the first race at Oak Lawn,
00:36:16and he backed up I think more than anything because he needed to run.
00:36:20But this time he was dead fit and, you know, total package.
00:36:26Talk to us about Banda Gold.
00:36:28I mean, you had a great day on Saturday with her taking the Martha Washington and paying $50.
00:36:34Well, you know, any filly that wins first time out like she did at Churchill, obviously talented,
00:36:40I think that she got a little confused in her second start at the fairgrounds.
00:36:45We ran her in the untappable, but she was really awkward on her leads,
00:36:50never really figured out what she was supposed to do out there.
00:36:54So she was one that we somewhat had to regroup with and then, you know, reschool her a little bit too.
00:37:01But in the paddock, you know, I always eyeball the competition, who they're by, who they're out of, what they look like.
00:37:08I'm a fan of that, by the way.
00:37:10Yeah.
00:37:11And what's the good horses look like?
00:37:13What do the good horses look like?
00:37:14So I was looking in the paddock and I saw every horse I looked at said, well, it looks like a sprinter to me.
00:37:18It looks like a sprinter to me.
00:37:20And so I told Brian, I said, this looks like a bunch of sprinters here.
00:37:24Let them do their thing.
00:37:26Don't you worry about anything early.
00:37:29If you can save ground, save it, because I think she'll need every inch of it.
00:37:33But don't let her loose until they straighten up.
00:37:37And that's what he did.
00:37:38And sure enough, looks like a group of sprinters backed right up to her.
00:37:41So we'll take it any way we can get it.
00:37:45Kenny, she is typical of what we've seen from your operation over the years.
00:37:51You are not blessed to have Sheikh Mohammed or Mr. Magnier behind you.
00:37:56You buy a lot of horses for relatively inexpensive prices.
00:38:00This one costs $70,000.
00:38:03What did you see in her and what did maybe other people miss about her?
00:38:07Well, I get no credit for purchasing her at auction.
00:38:11The purchase was made by Bill Shively and his daughter.
00:38:14So they do that annually and that they go buy horses together.
00:38:18They also purchased Cocktail Moments, which was a nice filly last season, season before.
00:38:24However, he sends me to the farm, Bill does, and I work with his team.
00:38:30And they'll line them up for me and say, who do you like?
00:38:35Who don't you like?
00:38:37And so they brought this filly out.
00:38:39They brought a Malibu Moon filly out that was lovely.
00:38:44And so I said, yeah, I like that one and that one.
00:38:49And then some of the other ones, they make decisions to sell them in the two-year-old sales or send other trainers.
00:38:55But it's a real luxury to be able to go to a farm of the magnitude and quality of Dixiana and handpick the ones you want.
00:39:03And Bill allowed me to do that.
00:39:06But as far as the auction purchase, I have had no connection to when they bought her at auction.
00:39:12Well, she's a very nice filly indeed.
00:39:14Kenny, you're approaching a milestone.
00:39:17You currently sit at $1,995.
00:39:21We've seen over the years that people kind of slow down dramatically when they're approaching a big milestone.
00:39:28Where would you love to get this done?
00:39:31It doesn't matter.
00:39:32You know, the truth is a lot of thanks goes to a lot of people that have worked really hard.
00:39:37A lot of clients that gave me a lot of horses to handle.
00:39:41You know, I'm not going to dwell on it.
00:39:43Matter of fact, I got every intentions of winning $3,000.
00:39:46So we'll keep rolling after that.
00:39:49But we're not going to dwell on it long.
00:39:50It's a wonderful milestone.
00:39:53You know, we've got so many nice horses that there's not a lot of time to sit and, you know, enjoy it.
00:39:59But we will.
00:40:00I'm sure we'll probably post something at some point.
00:40:03Where it happens is fine with me.
00:40:06Kenny, so many big wins on your resume.
00:40:08You've got a Swiss skydiver shirt on there.
00:40:10Of course, we remember her for everything she accomplished and, of course, winning the Preak mistakes.
00:40:15But you have not won the Kentucky Derby.
00:40:18In 1995, you finished second with Tejano Run.
00:40:21You must have thought this is pretty easy.
00:40:23I'm second in my first try.
00:40:25You know, what about your history in the Derby and how much do you yearn to get that magic win?
00:40:31You know, obviously, if somebody said, oh, being from Kentucky, is it a big deal?
00:40:36I think any horse trainer relishes to win a race like that.
00:40:40But, you know, it's got to come together on its own.
00:40:43You know, we've kind of been around the bull on it, you know, in Tejano Run, of course.
00:40:47And then Harlan's Holiday had a real chance.
00:40:49And I've had some other horses that had real chances that either didn't make the race or things just didn't go their way or certainly they weren't good enough.
00:40:59I've had some horses I ran that I didn't want to run.
00:41:01But there's a lot of, you know, things that go along with running one, certainly ownership and such.
00:41:08But, you know, look, if it happens, it happens.
00:41:11If it doesn't, it doesn't.
00:41:12I'm not going to, you know, put all my eggs in.
00:41:15I don't have a full career if I don't win that race.
00:41:17But I do think that with especially the strength of the team that we have and the group of horses and the clientele, some wonderful people that I work for right now.
00:41:29They are giving me the freedom to make decisions that are in the best interest of the horses and them.
00:41:37And it's a, you know, look, it's a journey.
00:41:40And if it happens, it happens.
00:41:42And if it doesn't, it doesn't.
00:41:44I'd love to win the Derby Oaks.
00:41:46You know, I was born in Arkansas.
00:41:48Some people know that.
00:41:50Only because my father was in the military and my mother came to visit him.
00:41:56But I've been second in the Arkansas Derby and been second in the Kentucky Derby.
00:41:59So we'd like to check a couple of those boxes at some point.
00:42:02Well, Kenny, I got a couple more questions.
00:42:05This one, courtesy of Randy the Rabbit Hole Moss.
00:42:08Now, he was supposed to be on this podcast with us, and he'd looked up some of your stats from the last year.
00:42:15You have broken the maidens of 25 horses over the past year, 17 of which were purchased at auction for an average price of $110,000.
00:42:28Now, of those 25 maidens you have broken, who's the best?
00:42:33Oh, goodness.
00:42:36That's quite a feat, by the way, 25 maidens breaking over the last year.
00:42:40But look, we get a lot of young horses.
00:42:43I went through a stage in my career back in the 80s and the 90s that I was primarily a claiming trainer, and I learned a lot during that period.
00:42:51And then I went through – I actually had a deal in New Jersey that was really difficult to go through, and I'm sure Bill remembers it and others.
00:43:01They said I ran a horse that was questionable.
00:43:05It was a claiming filly.
00:43:06It was a sloppy racetrack.
00:43:08She ended up breaking her cannon bone.
00:43:10But after that, I decided I just want young horses, and I want to develop young horses.
00:43:17And I started off – I can remember I was happy if I got five.
00:43:21And then I can remember one crop I had 12, and I think Tohono Run's crop I only had seven or eight.
00:43:30And then Take Charge Lady's crop came on, and I think I had 25.
00:43:35Oh, wow.
00:43:36And then Take Charge Lady's crop was amazing.
00:43:38Take Charge Lady, Harlem's Holiday, which I didn't purchase.
00:43:40That was Barry Burklehammer.
00:43:42Repent.
00:43:43Surava kind of fell in my lap.
00:43:46And then I've said, okay, I'd really love to have 30 every year.
00:43:51And now we're – I mean, the number is 70.
00:43:56So, look, the expectation to break those manes is there too because when I buy a horse for someone, I'm looking for –
00:44:05we've what I call tasted the fine wine.
00:44:07We've had those graded steak horses.
00:44:09So when I buy one, I want to buy one that can win a graded steak race because that's where our level of expectations are.
00:44:17So we do a lot of that, and we're still not throwing money at the game.
00:44:22Matter of fact, I tell the people that I work for, I don't necessarily want to throw money at the sport.
00:44:27I think we need to spend it wisely.
00:44:29I like buying out of young stallions.
00:44:31I like buying out of mares that haven't thrown a good horse yet because you can get value there.
00:44:38And then, you know, yeah, it'd be great to be able to spend a bigger budget, but, you know, maybe that comes.
00:44:45It doesn't matter.
00:44:46I mean, I work hard for those that want me, and that's all you can do.
00:44:50Kenny, I'm going to come at you totally out of left field with this,
00:44:52but I don't want to end the podcast without asking you the following question.
00:44:56People who don't know you that well may not realize you're somebody who's always thinking about the sport.
00:45:02You think outside the box.
00:45:04You've done a lot of innovative things, and you're always thinking about how we can make the sport better.
00:45:09Are you enthusiastic about the sport's future, or are you a little bit worried?
00:45:15I'm definitely worried.
00:45:16I've been worried for years.
00:45:18You know, I can remember, you know, before simulcasting came in, that horse racing, you know,
00:45:26we were running for peanuts at Churchill back then,
00:45:29and I've always believed we need to open this sport up to the masses
00:45:33and make it so easy for them to watch they can't stand it.
00:45:37But we continue to deny people the ability to watch.
00:45:42When I say that, yes, there are exceptions.
00:45:46However, you know, if I want to watch a race on my iPhone or my Android, I've got to open an ADW.
00:45:55I've got to be in the right state.
00:45:56I've got to have a credit card to open the ADW,
00:45:58although I do think Naira is making it easier for people to watch on their app.
00:46:04The jumping through the hoops for people to watch a race are too complicated, and we need to change it.
00:46:11I mean, I created the Horse Races Now app, which we actually shortened the name to Horses Now.
00:46:16But that thing continues to get, it's averaged 7,000 new users per month since it was launched.
00:46:24But we can't access video.
00:46:27There's certain entities that don't want us to have video.
00:46:31We've been told that we need to take bets, but they won't let us do that either.
00:46:35But it continues to aggregate more and more people, which I'm quite proud of, but I've lost a lot of money on that thing.
00:46:43Let's just say seven figures plus.
00:46:46Yes.
00:46:47But fortunately, my day job, which we talked about previously, has helped fund that.
00:46:55And I'm still adamant that we're going to take that to another level.
00:47:00But the sports has to change the way we deliver to the young fans.
00:47:05I mean, young fans are the core of our future, and if we don't connect to them soon, then we're lost.
00:47:15I could go on and on on this topic.
00:47:18And I'm still fighting my own battles.
00:47:21Or when I say that, the good fight on Horse Races Now, trying to take it to another level.
00:47:25And there's some people out there that are contributing to that possibly happening.
00:47:29We want to take it to Samsung television, Apple TV.
00:47:32We want it to be a worldwide product that you can access any race anywhere, anytime.
00:47:38But there's a lot of dots to connect, and that's going to take some time and money and cooperation.
00:47:43And whether it's us that do it or someone else, it's hard to say, but we definitely need to make changes in the sport.
00:47:50How is it for you being a trainer in this sport nowadays?
00:47:54We've seen what's happening with Heiser and the suspensions and the Engelhardt suspension, buying the horse from the two-year-old.
00:48:03How hard is it being a trainer nowadays?
00:48:06Well, the odds to dot and Ts to cross on a daily basis have grown, although I've got good people that help me do a lot of that.
00:48:18I think that there's some positives that are coming out of Heiser, but I also think that there's a lack of common sense on some of it.
00:48:26I do think that they need someone like myself or some other trainers that are regularly in the trenches to be able to direct them to what is more of a commonsensical approach to problem solving.
00:48:39I do not think that there's an enormous amount of cheating in the game.
00:48:43I think the guys that win races are the guys that are good trainers that have good horses.
00:48:48I've lost a lot of horses in the claiming ranks over the years, and nobody does anything dramatic with any of them.
00:48:55So a question, sometimes I think we're barking up the wrong tree with Heiser, and I have been very outspoken to Heiser and the people that work with Heiser.
00:49:08And they're wonderful people, by the way.
00:49:11I'm trying to think of some of the names that they're heading.
00:49:14Lisa is well-intentioned, but I've told her repeatedly, I think we need to address the media rights in the sport as much as we do the drugs in the sport.
00:49:31With the Racing Commission in Kentucky, now with Heiser.
00:49:34Mark Guilfoyle.
00:49:35Mark Guilfoyle, wonderful guy.
00:49:37Same thing.
00:49:38Mark, media rights are every bit as important.
00:49:40We need to worry about growing the sport so much as catching bad guys.
00:49:44And the Angle Card thing, I think, is honestly ridiculous.
00:49:49But there's some other things that they've done that are ridiculous, too.
00:49:53And they need to say, hey, wait a second, let's really figure this out.
00:49:57And on a really sensitive topic to some, I don't think what they're doing to Bob's fair, either.
00:50:03I mean, I don't think what Bob Baffert has done is so egregious that he hadn't been able to run some really freakishly good horses in a race of the magnitude of the Derby.
00:50:12And it's a bit of a head scratcher to me.
00:50:14I hope they don't do that to me one day.
00:50:15Goodness.
00:50:18Well, Ken McPeak, Kenny McPeak, congratulations.
00:50:21What a weekend and what a purse.
00:50:23Eight hundred thousand dollars for a grade three at Oakland.
00:50:26I just can't can't get over the kind of money that they're throwing around out there.
00:50:30But, of course, that's good for the game.
00:50:31And it was good for the Ken McPeak stable on Saturday.
00:50:34Good luck on the road to the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Oaks.
00:50:37By the way, since I do my Kentucky Oaks countdown, where is Band of Gold likely to run next?
00:50:43More than likely the Honeybee.
00:50:44Honeybee.
00:50:45We were doing the math on that.
00:50:46Yeah, I think I think coming back in three weeks is OK for her because she hasn't run in a while.
00:50:51And we've got some others.
00:50:54Torpedo Anna, we're getting ready.
00:50:56It was second in the Goldenrod.
00:50:57We've got Vivi's Dream going to run next Saturday.
00:51:00I'm sorry.
00:51:01On the 17th and the Rachel Alexander.
00:51:03That's a freaky good Philly.
00:51:06You know, Sistina Chapel, who was third in the untappable.
00:51:09She's going to probably come back.
00:51:11I may point her towards the Turfway races.
00:51:14Small Happy's getting ready to make another run.
00:51:16And one of more difficult horses I've ever handled in my team seems to have had him sorted.
00:51:22Now, expect him to run big on the 17th of February back at the fairgrounds again.
00:51:28So we've got a lot of depth and, you know, it's a it's a real luxury.
00:51:33Well, Kenny, thanks so much for your time.
00:51:35Good luck with all those horses you mentioned.
00:51:37And maybe on the first Saturday may they'll be taking your picture in the winner's circle.
00:51:41All right.
00:51:42We got a long way, but we'll get there.
00:51:43OK.
00:51:44Thanks so much, Kenny.
00:51:46As the Green Group guest of the week, Kenny McPeak, who's making all kinds of money at Oaklawn Park nowadays,
00:51:52will receive a free one hour tax consultation with Lynn Green and the Green Group.
00:51:56For more information on how the Green Group can help you in your pocketbook around tax time,
00:52:01you can log on to www.greenco.com.
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00:52:12There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:52:17They save you money and share successful strategies.
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00:52:25has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport,
00:52:29like Eclipse Award winning champions Jay Walk and Wonder Wheel.
00:52:33His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
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00:53:08And it's now time for First Things First.
00:53:11This week, I decided I would catch up with Hall of Famer Bob Baffert and Flavien Pratt
00:53:17right after Nysos' very impressive win in the Grade 3 Bob Lewis.
00:53:28Nysos takes the Grade 3 Bob Lewis here with Hall of Fame trainer Bob Baffert,
00:53:32six in a row and his 12th overall in this race.
00:53:35Flavien Pratt, you were aboard Nysos.
00:53:37I have to say, I was a little concerned in the post-break because he's just so relaxed.
00:53:42Yes, he's very relaxed, but a good mind, just a good mind.
00:53:46Tell us the acceleration he gave you coming down the lane
00:53:49because it looks like he pressed a button and he just took off.
00:53:52Yeah, exactly. The pace was pretty hard, so it was good.
00:53:55You know, I gave him a chance and he took the dirt very well.
00:53:58And yeah, when I call on him, he responds really well.
00:54:01Thanks for your time. We'll let you go.
00:54:03Bob, six in a row, one, two this year, one, two, three, four last year.
00:54:07How good is Nysos?
00:54:09Well, I mean, it feels to be blessed to have horses like this, you know, year after year.
00:54:13And I have the great clientele that I have to put me in this position.
00:54:17And it's nice to see these horses that are trained well.
00:54:20They, you know, sometimes they'll fool you, but they both showed up today.
00:54:24All right, Bob, thanks for your time. Best of luck throughout the day.
00:54:27Nysos takes the Robert B. Lewis.
00:54:32Many thanks for Bob and Flavian.
00:54:37It looks like we'll find out where that horse is headed next,
00:54:40but do want to remind you, as the rain continues to fall here in Southern California,
00:54:44we will be back racing on Friday with a nine race card.
00:54:48Saturday, we'll have a 1230 post and an early post on Sunday, 11 a.m. for Super Bowl.
00:54:56We will have some rescheduled stakes from last week, the Las Virgenes and the San Marcos.
00:55:01And of course, we will have the Palos Verdes on Saturday.
00:55:05Looks like big city lights will go forward as a favorite in there.
00:55:09But a good weekend of racing coming up at Santa Anita.
00:55:13And guys, who are you picking for Super Bowl?
00:55:15Which direction are we going?
00:55:18Kansas City.
00:55:21Chiefs for me as well.
00:55:24Yeah, a lot of respect, a lot of respect for the 49ers.
00:55:28But I think the Chiefs are like this.
00:55:31To me, this is Andy Reid's best coaching job yet.
00:55:34Yeah, absolutely.
00:55:36And Patrick Mahomes' father used to play for the Red Sox.
00:55:39How about that?
00:55:42The truth comes out.
00:55:43That's why Bill likes the Chiefs.
00:55:45OK.
00:55:48I'm a little old to be a Swifty.
00:55:51Yeah, I think it's great.
00:55:53I don't know why everyone's dogging on poor old Taylor Swift.
00:55:56This is absolutely wonderful.
00:55:58It's great.
00:55:59Yes, absolutely.
00:56:00I wish you would have got fall in love with a jockey.
00:56:03You can see me right now.
00:56:06I'll do that.
00:56:07I don't mind.
00:56:08I'll take one for the team.
00:56:09I could.
00:56:10Yeah, I bet you will.
00:56:12All right.
00:56:13Well, if he gets tired of Taylor, we'll put in a good word for you.
00:56:17OK, so this is usually the point in the podcast.
00:56:20We talk about the races coming up this weekend.
00:56:23No surprise, since it was such a big weekend last week.
00:56:27It's very quiet.
00:56:28The only race with any connection to the Kentucky Derby is the Sam F.
00:56:32Davis at Tampa, which is the prep for the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:56:36We learned today that Locke, who would have been the favorite in there,
00:56:39the Breeders Futurity winner for Todd Pletcher,
00:56:41is out of the race with a temperature.
00:56:43Horse to watch in there is Change of Command,
00:56:45just to see if Shug McGahee can get a horse on the road to the Triple
00:56:49Crown.
00:56:50He's a recent allowance winner, and he cost $1.050 million at Keeneland
00:56:55September.
00:56:56So I think he would be the likely favorite in there.
00:56:58And I'd love to see Shug come up with a good Triple Crown candidate.
00:57:02Guys, anything else to add to that?
00:57:04Agate Road, for sure.
00:57:06Oh, that's right.
00:57:07Yeah.
00:57:08He's going to be in there for Todd, and we'll see how he handles the main
00:57:11track.
00:57:12He ran well in his debut at Saratoga, running second to trade imbalance.
00:57:17And we've seen time and time again,
00:57:19Tough Horses running pretty well at Tampa Bay Downs.
00:57:22And Todd has taken this road before to get to the Derby.
00:57:26So I'm actually really looking forward to seeing how Agate Road handles
00:57:30everything on Saturday.
00:57:32Yeah.
00:57:33Two completely different running styles, obviously.
00:57:35Change of Command is pretty aggressive and likes to be right up into the mix,
00:57:38if not on the lead.
00:57:39And Agate Road on a faster pace dirt race,
00:57:43he may find himself 15 links back.
00:57:45I mean, he's got zero speed at all, but he's got a heck of a late kick.
00:57:50One other, I mean, there's a lot of other horses in here that could be part
00:57:55of this.
00:57:56It's a pretty evenly matched race on paper.
00:57:58But there's a horse that you may want to consider,
00:58:01and that would be No More Time,
00:58:04a horse that was the second choice at 2-1 in the Mucho Macho Man that so
00:58:09many of those horses came out of that ran in the Holy Bull.
00:58:12And he really didn't have much of a chance in the Mucho Macho Man.
00:58:15He broke in the air and got away last.
00:58:18He's a horse that wants to be up in the mix as well.
00:58:20And then he was four wide all the way around the turn and made a decent run
00:58:24and it kind of emptied out a little bit.
00:58:25The race before that was a win at Gulf Stream where he looked pretty good
00:58:29going a mile in a maiden race.
00:58:30So I think he might have a chance to get part of this.
00:58:33That's just another horse I'll throw in the mix there.
00:58:35All right.
00:58:37Guys, last week I wrote a story for the Thoroughbred Daily News,
00:58:40which raised a lot of questions, I think.
00:58:43And to give you a brief take on it,
00:58:45trainer Jeffrey Englehart was hit with one of those potential two-year
00:58:50suspensions from HIWU for having a horse test positive for a banned
00:58:55substance, in this case, clembuterol.
00:58:57He's still training, waiting for the split sample to come back.
00:59:01But his story is that, well,
00:59:05let me give you the background some more a little bit.
00:59:07He bought the horse in June in Ocala at two-year-old sale.
00:59:10And then he took the horse right away to his barn at Finger Lakes.
00:59:14In November, the horse broke down, unfortunately,
00:59:17in a workout and had to be put down.
00:59:18That's when HIWU came in and did all the tests,
00:59:21which I believe they do any time a horse breaks down.
00:59:23And they found in the hair sample clembuterol.
00:59:27So they then went from there to give the suspension to Englehart.
00:59:34And his contention is that in the hair samples, they go back,
00:59:38you could find something that was administered to a horse,
00:59:42even as much as a year before the time the test is out.
00:59:46He believes that the horse was given clembuterol by the consigner who put
00:59:52him in the sale so that he would obviously work faster in the workouts and
00:59:57believes that he is completely innocent and that they've got the wrong guy.
01:00:02It does raise an awful lot of questions.
01:00:04Zoe, one thing that, and you would be the best to have a take on this.
01:00:10Englehart said clembuterol use at two-year-old sales is rampant.
01:00:15Do you believe you buy that?
01:00:17I mean, I know that Nick Domeric penned a letter to the TDN the very next day,
01:00:23defending the two-year-old sales.
01:00:25And I actually spoke to Nick yesterday and we had a long conversation about
01:00:29the two-year-old sales.
01:00:30Yes, he is on the board.
01:00:32And he basically said that, you know,
01:00:34the two-year-old sales are the most tightly regulated segment of the horse
01:00:40racing industry thus far.
01:00:42They have lots of medication hoops.
01:00:44They have to jump through 24 hours, 72 hours.
01:00:49Everything has to be regulated.
01:00:50And I said to him, but what about the clembuterol?
01:00:53They do random testing on about 20% of horses that go through the
01:00:57two-year-old sales.
01:00:59I think over the years they may have found two horses that tested positive
01:01:03for clembuterol.
01:01:05Those horses were scratched and sanctions were given.
01:01:08Now, the elephant in the room here with the hair samples is that, yes,
01:01:14you can go back to a year.
01:01:16We need some kind of uniformity between all of the sales groups.
01:01:21You have OBS, you have Keeneland, you have Fazard-Tibton.
01:01:24They need to get together and try and figure this out because clembuterol was
01:01:29originally for sick horses.
01:01:32I can remember growing up in England.
01:01:34And now it's called Venter Pullman.
01:01:36We used to put a scoop of Venter Pullman into the hunters' feed,
01:01:40the horses that had a cough.
01:01:42And that was just these old hunters that were sending out to go hunting.
01:01:47I came over here and I keep hearing clembuterol.
01:01:50I didn't know what it was.
01:01:51I looked it up and I'm like, Venter Pullman?
01:01:54That's what we used to give the hunters in England.
01:01:56It is for helping horses.
01:02:00Now, what if you've got a sick foal?
01:02:02You take your sick foal, it's got pneumonia, you take it to the vet,
01:02:06it gets clembuterol.
01:02:08Now, the Heisser records do not come in place on horses until they've had a
01:02:12timed workout.
01:02:13They get registered and every medication has to be registered thus forward.
01:02:17But if you've got a foal that's been administered clembuterol,
01:02:20the foal gets sold as a weanling, and then gets sold as a yearling,
01:02:25and then gets sold at the two-year-old sales,
01:02:28and then you get a positive clembuterol sample from a hair sample,
01:02:34how do you know who's responsible?
01:02:37I think this is something that needs to be looked into.
01:02:41And I understand what Nick is saying with the two-year-olds.
01:02:43They are very tightly regulated.
01:02:46I spoke to Marette Farrell, who I do a lot of work with at the two-year-old
01:02:49sales, and she'd been speaking to a couple of her clients, Border,
01:02:53X-Line Racing, about perhaps doing hair samples at the upcoming
01:02:58two-year-old sales.
01:02:59And they're going to look into this and just see.
01:03:02OBS have said that they will apparently, nothing is written in stone,
01:03:07but on a hair sample.
01:03:09But things take a long time to go through.
01:03:11And then at the same time, who's responsible?
01:03:14This is going to be an awfully big can of worms,
01:03:18because everyone is going to pass the buck at some point.
01:03:22It wasn't me.
01:03:23It was them.
01:03:24It was this guy.
01:03:25It was that guy.
01:03:26It's the same thing that we've all been talking about.
01:03:28At some point, someone has to be held responsible.
01:03:30Now, it's impossible to test every horse in the sale.
01:03:32That's going to cost a fortune.
01:03:33Or is it?
01:03:34I don't know.
01:03:36So it's certainly food for thought.
01:03:39But we will continue buying at two-year-old sales,
01:03:42because it's proven that they do better, they race longer,
01:03:46and the records out of two-year-old sales are second to none.
01:03:50So far, what HISA and HIWU have done a pretty good job of doing is being
01:04:01flexible and adjusting penalties when evidence is brought to them that
01:04:09it may have been unfair, and this is why it may have been unfair.
01:04:14To me, this smacks of one of those situations.
01:04:16I'll be surprised if everything seems to be the way it is.
01:04:24I'll be surprised if they don't adjust Engelhardt's suspension.
01:04:28I found it particularly interesting, Bill,
01:04:30in your story about what he's doing himself, testing the segments of hair.
01:04:36To me, that was, you know, as a former sort of med student,
01:04:40I thought that was fascinating.
01:04:42And it makes sense, because as hair grows out,
01:04:45the oldest part of the hair is what you would think would have the highest
01:04:51concentration of the clenbuterol.
01:04:54And so he himself has had the hair samples,
01:04:57is having the hair samples tested to try to prove that the clenbuterol was
01:05:02given before he bought the horse at the sale.
01:05:05To me, that's kind of a fascinating thing,
01:05:07and could just add more to his evidence there.
01:05:11Yeah, definitely.
01:05:12But Heise would not tell me if they are going to use that same test,
01:05:16that same sort of segmented test or not.
01:05:19But, you know, so you brought up a lot of good points,
01:05:22and it's not just the sales.
01:05:24If a drug can stay in a horse's system for a year and show up in a hair test
01:05:29or some other hair test, look at these horses, you know,
01:05:32these $35,000 claimers.
01:05:34They might get claimed three, four times a year.
01:05:36A horse could be in four or five different barns through the course of a year,
01:05:42and then he tests positive for clenbuterol.
01:05:45You're going to just automatically say the trainer that has him now is the
01:05:49guilty one?
01:05:50I mean, that can't possibly be.
01:05:54I mean, I don't know how you change things through the
01:05:56trainer responsibility rule, but that would seem tremendously unfair.
01:06:01Well, some tracks have started to incorporate, Bill,
01:06:05hair testing for clenbuterol in their standard order business,
01:06:09because what was happening in the past, you know,
01:06:12clenbuterol was first really used as – it's been a breathing drug for a
01:06:20long period of time.
01:06:21But then trainers also learned that it had certain steroidal qualities.
01:06:25It would kind of mimic the impact of anabolic steroids on a horse,
01:06:30help them build up muscle mass and things like that, right?
01:06:33And so when anabolic steroids were outlawed in thoroughbred racing,
01:06:36a lot of trainers just switched.
01:06:37Okay, we can't use steroids.
01:06:39We'll use clenbuterol.
01:06:40It's the next best thing.
01:06:42And when racetracks went to, you know, to rules about clenbuterol, okay,
01:06:48you have to, you know, pull up within three weeks or whatever,
01:06:52the way trainers would try to get around that is they would give massive
01:06:56doses of clenbuterol up until that cutoff time.
01:06:59Then they would stop and the horses would still have traces that, you know,
01:07:05their bodies would still be feeling the positive impacts of the clenbuterol,
01:07:10right, and muscle mass and things like that,
01:07:13even if the horse wouldn't necessarily test positive for clenbuterol.
01:07:16And that's when some of these tracks went instead to hair sample testing so
01:07:22that they can catch these guys that have been using clenbuterol in that
01:07:25manner.
01:07:26So that ball is kind of already rolling in thoroughbred racing and the sales,
01:07:29it might be a good idea for that as well.
01:07:31Yeah, well, stay tuned.
01:07:33And, you know,
01:07:34the other thing that people bring up is that Hyza does not start with a horse
01:07:38until they have their first published workout.
01:07:40So Hyza has no jurisdiction that the yearling or two-year-old sales at all.
01:07:47So, and some people think that they need to change that.
01:07:49I don't know if they should or not,
01:07:51but that's another subject for Food for Thought somewhere down the road.
01:07:55The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:07:58The XBTV Workout of the Week is White Abario,
01:08:01who worked a sparkling five furlongs in 59-3 on February the 3rd,
01:08:06for trainer Rick Dutrow,
01:08:08solo with regular rider Emily Ellingwood in the saddle we all know.
01:08:12He is pointing toward the February 24th $20 million Saudi World Cup.
01:08:18Assistant trainer Chip Dutrow said the horse was feeling great after his work.
01:08:23I can attest that Emily said the same thing as well.
01:08:26Looks like he'll leave for Saudi on February the 13th.
01:08:30This horse could not possibly be doing any better.
01:08:34He's ready to run, babe.
01:08:36He is ready to roll, babe.
01:08:38Although he, you know,
01:08:39he could probably use another sharp work because he's a pretty good doer, guys.
01:08:43Like he's got a bit of an old belly on him right now.
01:08:46He's feeling pretty good.
01:08:48He is a very good doer.
01:08:50So we've had some very sharp works for him back to back.
01:08:54Just putting him under the hammer just a little bit.
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01:09:49The TD and Riders Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds,
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01:10:05Just this past week when Happy I Am,
01:10:08owned by West Point, picked up her third straight win
01:10:11for the partners when she took a fairgrounds allowance race
01:10:14by five and a half lengths as the three to five favorite
01:10:16and looked pretty darn good doing it.
01:10:18And don't forget the John Sadler trainee,
01:10:20Scatify, who was sent to the early lead
01:10:22in the Bob Lewis against Nysos,
01:10:25actually beat Wine Me Up to the front in that race
01:10:28and still held on to finish third,
01:10:30owned by West Point.
01:10:31Scatify broke his mate in December the 16th
01:10:33at Los Alamitos, looked pretty good then as well,
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01:10:43of the West Point experience,
01:10:45you can go to www.WestPointTV,
01:10:49as in thoroughbred.com.
01:11:02All right, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:11:04I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss,
01:11:06Zoe Cadman, our producers, Katie Petruniuk
01:11:09and Anthony LaRocca, and our editors,
01:11:12Leah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:11:14It's Lucy time, what's up?
01:11:16I don't know.
01:11:18I didn't pick her up and hold her here
01:11:20because she's not really ready for the red carpet.
01:11:22She looks a little scraggly right now,
01:11:27but she's going to the beauty shop today, Bill,
01:11:30so she'll look really good for next week.
01:11:32Great.
01:11:33We'll have Lucy all primmed and proper
01:11:35for next week's show.
01:11:37All right.
01:11:38Doodle, though.
01:11:39There's Doodle.
01:11:40She's ready.
01:11:41Oh, I doodle.
01:11:42It's all about the dogs.
01:11:44All right.
01:11:45Thanks so much for listening and viewing us this week.
01:11:47We'll be back next week with another edition
01:11:49of TDN Writer's Room.
01:11:50See you then.
01:11:52Bye, guys.
01:12:00Bye.