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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:35I also co-host the Down the Stretch Show on Sirius XM Radio with Dave Johnson.
00:00:39I want to remind you that this week and every week, TDN Writer's Room broadcast is brought
00:00:43to you by our good friends at Keeneland.
00:00:45My name is Randy Moss.
00:00:46I work for NBC Sports.
00:00:47I think I might have had my mouth wide open right when we started because Bill doesn't
00:00:54wait for anyone.
00:00:55So I'm Zoe Capman with my mouth still wide open, back home in Southern California.
00:01:01Doodle's jet lagged right behind me if you can see him there, and we are ready to roll.
00:01:06It's good to be home.
00:01:07Saratoga was great, but I am so glad to be home, at least for a couple of days.
00:01:11Well, even though the meet is over, the subject will be Saratoga.
00:01:14Zoe was there for the whole time.
00:01:16Randy and I were watching courtesy of Simulcasting and ADWs, and it was a meet where a lot of
00:01:22news was made.
00:01:23A lot of it bad news, some of it good news, but I wanted to take a chance now to just
00:01:28sort of look back at Saratoga.
00:01:32We know everything that went wrong.
00:01:34Unfortunately, it was a lot.
00:01:35We had the 12 fatalities that were big news, including eight during racing, four during
00:01:42morning training, and the two big ones with New York Thunder and Maple Leaf Mel in the
00:01:48grade ones.
00:01:49The weather was atrocious.
00:01:50The handle was way down.
00:01:52It was down about 9%.
00:01:55The numbers are still good.
00:01:57The Saratoga handle is $800 million, or they missed it by just a hair, $799,000.
00:02:05All things considered, and in another segment, we're going to talk about some of the highlights
00:02:09of the meet, the good races and everything.
00:02:11I just think you can't put a good spin on this meet.
00:02:18Too many things went wrong.
00:02:19The weather was terrible.
00:02:21It just seemed to me like this was a Saratoga meet where, after so much momentum was built
00:02:27up year after year after year after year, it was the first kind of meet, and I put it
00:02:32in the Thoroughbred Daily News headline, where they lost their mojo.
00:02:36The 9% down in handle, that has an awful lot to do with the races coming off the turf,
00:02:41but I don't think that's all there was to it.
00:02:44I think even if they had good weather, and I have no numbers to prove this, but it's
00:02:47just my inclination that it was more than the bad weather that cost them the handle.
00:02:51So throwing a lot out there for you guys.
00:02:54Randy Moss, your take, now that Saratoga 2023 is in the history books.
00:02:59Well, obviously, Saratoga is always going to be under the microscope.
00:03:02It's the royal ascot of America.
00:03:05It's the crown jewel of American racing seasons.
00:03:08It continues to be the best racing that America has to offer from start to finish.
00:03:14It's unfortunate that we had, especially the two horrific breakdowns that we saw with
00:03:20Maple Leaf Mail and with New York Thunder that sort of cast a pall on the meeting.
00:03:26It is by Saratoga standards, and I want to emphasize that, more of a forgettable Saratoga
00:03:33when you look at the recent trends and the stuff that's been going on there.
00:03:37But I do think that the betting decline can almost all be attributed to the weather.
00:03:4665 races taken off the turf compared to 16 a year ago.
00:03:55Attendance was up a tick.
00:03:56It was a record attendance, yet on-track handle was down by 6%, and off-track handle was down
00:04:05by 11%.
00:04:07That just tells me that the wagering product was not seen by the big bettors as being up
00:04:13to Saratoga standards, and really, the only reason for that you can come up with is that
00:04:18so many races were taken off the turf with the scratches that that always brings to bear.
00:04:26It's unfortunate the other things that happened at Saratoga, but I think with better weather
00:04:32and hopefully more safety protocols, et cetera, et cetera, for 2024, I think Saratoga can
00:04:39get right back on track.
00:04:41So hold on one sec, because I want to add something a little bit to that.
00:04:44And again, like I said, I don't have all the numbers.
00:04:46I'm not smart enough to be able to put it together, but there are some things that stood
00:04:49out to me why I'm saying that.
00:04:51I don't think it was necessarily all the weather.
00:04:53Traverse Day handle was off $5 million.
00:04:56No weather factors there from year to year.
00:04:58Jockey Club Gold Cup handle day was off $5 million.
00:05:02No weather factors there.
00:05:05That's $10 million right there of the amount they lost.
00:05:10Now, the handle went down $79 million.
00:05:13Just came up with on two days, $10 million of it on days where weather wasn't a factor.
00:05:18And Randy, when track executives look at the pertinent numbers, one thing they always look
00:05:23at is the average amount bet per wagering interest because that takes all the other
00:05:28noise out of there, off the turf, et cetera.
00:05:30That was down 6.2%.
00:05:31Again, I'm not going to say a horrible meet that Saratoga's finished.
00:05:37Nobody's betting.
00:05:38Of course, I'm not saying that.
00:05:39I just think that they – I'll put it this way.
00:05:42I think they finally peaked, which is – it took them 25 years to peak, as pretty remarkable
00:05:49as it is.
00:05:50But I think Saratoga, based on these numbers, and I can be proven wrong next year when they
00:05:54handle $900 million, but I just think the meet has peaked.
00:05:59At some point, I mean, it can't keep going up, up, up, up, up forever, right?
00:06:04At some point, you're going to reach a peak.
00:06:07Maybe it impacts when you get that many people at the track.
00:06:11Maybe it impacts the fan experience.
00:06:14I don't know.
00:06:16But it's still the crown jewel of American horse racing, as you pointed out.
00:06:23It's still a fabulous racing season.
00:06:25Hopefully, it'll get back on track next year.
00:06:27I think many tracks would be glad to peak at $800 million and handle for the meet.
00:06:33I mean, let's be perfectly honest.
00:06:36It was still a good meet as far as handle, as far as the Traverse Day handle being down.
00:06:42The breakdowns were – there were two breakdowns earlier on in the card, and a lot of people
00:06:46were just like, yeah, I'm done.
00:06:49That would be more so the on-track handle than the off-track handle.
00:06:53But where there was a major contributing factor, because not only were the races taken
00:06:58off the turf, the ones that weren't, you didn't know what shape the turf course was in.
00:07:03It was a softer turf course, so I like to dabble a little bit and have a few wagers.
00:07:08There were some races I just wasn't betting on because it was on an off track.
00:07:12It was on a good track.
00:07:13The turf was soft.
00:07:14I don't know who's going to like it.
00:07:16I think this overflows into a lot of the bigger gamblers as well, perhaps avoiding those softer
00:07:23turf days because it could be a grab bag.
00:07:26You don't know who's going to handle it.
00:07:27You don't know who's not going to handle it.
00:07:29So weather was the number one contributing factor for, I believe, every single thing
00:07:35that went on at Saratoga.
00:07:38Next year, they're likely to have perhaps a longer meet.
00:07:40I mean, there's talk of the Belmont Stakes being held there.
00:07:44We don't know when they're going to be held, but I don't think it's peaked.
00:07:48Next year may be the best meet of all if the weather stays good, especially if they're
00:07:53going to have the Belmont Stakes there.
00:07:55We don't know.
00:07:56It was a travesty that it was generally a horrible meet by the larger part of things,
00:08:02but there were some good things to come out of it as well.
00:08:05But weather was the number one attributing factor for sure.
00:08:09Let me throw something else in there, Bill.
00:08:10I'm not suggesting that this is a major contributing factor, but I personally know some big bettors
00:08:18who dialed back their action on Saratoga out of frustration with the stewards and stewards'
00:08:25decisions and not stewards' decisions.
00:08:28Just this past week, we had Javier Castellano on a horse who veered in at the start, wasn't
00:08:34Javier's fault, veered in badly at the start, caused a rider breaking from post one to be
00:08:40unseated.
00:08:41The horse went on to win the race.
00:08:43They didn't even put up the inquiry sign.
00:08:46I got like four text messages right away.
00:08:49You got to see this head on.
00:08:50Not only did they not disqualify the horse, they didn't even put up the inquiry sign.
00:08:55So that's also something that I think needs to be addressed in the future at NIRA.
00:09:01A good point.
00:09:03I'm glad you brought that up.
00:09:04So as Zoe touched on some of the things that we may be looking forward to for Saratoga
00:09:09in the future, and we were told a while back that the 2025 Belmont Stakes would likely
00:09:15be run at Saratoga.
00:09:17Now they're talking about the 2024 Belmont Stakes as well.
00:09:21We don't know quite how that would all work.
00:09:25I would guess that they would start at Aqua.
00:09:28It looks like the Belmont, to me from reading between the lines, I don't think we're going
00:09:33to see racing at Belmont Park until 2020, again, until 2026, if that's the timeline
00:09:41for when they think the new grandstand will be built.
00:09:44So I would imagine they would start out at Aqueduct Run, you know, May, June, etc., or
00:09:50April, May, and then maybe around Preakness time or something like that, or maybe a little
00:09:55bit later.
00:09:56I don't think they're going to take the entire Belmont Spring meet, transfer it to Saratoga,
00:10:02then add Saratoga onto it.
00:10:04But having said that, it's going to be really cool to see the Belmont Stakes run at Saratoga.
00:10:10And they also came out, and I'm glad they said this because it took care of any ambiguity,
00:10:15the race will be run at a mile and a quarter.
00:10:17You can't run a mile and a half race at Saratoga with the configuration of that racetrack.
00:10:21So Randy, you're looking forward to the 2024 Belmont Stakes at Saratoga at a mile and an eighth.
00:10:29Trish just won't like that, will they?
00:10:31What happened to all this tradition?
00:10:33You can't change the Triple Crown.
00:10:35What is this?
00:10:36They're running a Belmont at a mile and a quarter?
00:10:38Come on, guys.
00:10:39There is a way to run it at a mile and a half.
00:10:41I'm sorry.
00:10:42I said a mile and an eighth.
00:10:43I meant a mile and a quarter.
00:10:44Of course.
00:10:45You said a mile and a quarter.
00:10:46Today, okay.
00:10:47Yeah, there is a way to run it at a mile and a half.
00:10:49You just make the 16th pole an alternate finish line like they do at Keeneland and Oaklawn
00:10:53and the fairgrounds.
00:10:54You'd have an 815-foot stretch, you'd have a short stretch, but then you'd be starting
00:10:59the race at the four and a half pole, and then you could back up the run up even a little
00:11:02bit further from there.
00:11:04So there is a way to keep it at a mile and a half if they really wanted to.
00:11:08And in the date, they have come out and said, I believe June 8th is what, so Belmont or
00:11:15Naira continues to stick its feet in the ground about moving the Belmont stakes, even as First
00:11:23Racing is talking about moving to Preakness.
00:11:26So we'll see what happens there.
00:11:27It's going to be very, very interesting to see because nothing's written in stone with
00:11:32First and nothing's written in stone with Naira other than they've said they're not
00:11:35moving, but things can change.
00:11:38We'll have to wait and see.
00:11:40And a subject we've talked a lot about, of course, over recent podcasts is synthetic
00:11:45surfaces. They are also now talking about putting in a synthetic track at Saratoga.
00:11:49Now, it would not replace the main track.
00:11:51It would be like what they have at Gulfstream and what is coming to Belmont.
00:11:56It would be still another option used primarily when the races come off the turf.
00:12:01And boy, could they have used that this year because those 11 horse turf races get washed
00:12:07off the turf and you wind up with three horse fields if they get washed off the turf and
00:12:11then go to synthetic, you should get nine or ten.
00:12:14So I like that.
00:12:15I like I like that Naira is is being bold about its future, thinking about things and
00:12:21not just just sitting back and resting on its laurels, you know, moving the Belmont
00:12:25stakes to Saratoga, putting a synthetic track potentially at Saratoga.
00:12:29Just think how much how much handle they would have saved this year if they had a
00:12:34synthetic track, those handle numbers that would have been down nine percent, that's for
00:12:37sure. The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:42It was quite a weekend for Keeneland's September alumni's with a lot of graduates
00:12:47showing they had a bright future, including, pun intended, bright future.
00:12:52The winner of the Jockey Cup Gold Cup Saturday at Saratoga Bright Future was a
00:12:57three hundred and fifty thousand dollar twenty twenty Keeneland September graduate on
00:13:02the West Coast. Arabian Night, who was a twenty twenty one two hundred and fifty
00:13:07thousand dollar September grad, got home first in the grade one Pacific Classic and
00:13:12Keeneland had not one but two TDN Rising Stars this past week.
00:13:18Locked took home a Saratoga maiden race on Friday.
00:13:22He was a four hundred and twenty five thousand dollar September grad.
00:13:25And Agate Road earned the honors on Saturday.
00:13:28He was a six hundred and fifty thousand dollar September purchase.
00:13:32This year's September sale kicks off Monday and runs through September the 23rd.
00:13:37Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:13:39We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:46If this place could talk.
00:13:51It would roar.
00:13:53It would say this is a race.
00:13:57This beating heart in the heart of horse country.
00:14:01Steady and strong beneath the roar.
00:14:05Reminding us why.
00:14:07For the love of the horse.
00:14:10For generations to come.
00:14:22The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Stone Street.
00:14:26Stone Street will offer fifty nine home breads at the upcoming Keeneland
00:14:30September sale, taking place from September the 11th through the 23rd,
00:14:35including hip number one hundred, a cult by Tapit out of the multiple
00:14:40grade one stakes winner Dream Rush.
00:14:42This cult is a half brother to grade one stakes winner Dream Rush.
00:14:46It's a cult that's been around for over a century.
00:14:48This cult is a half brother to grade one stakes winner Dreaming of Julia,
00:14:53who produced champion three year old Philly Malathat as well as Julia Shining.
00:14:58Just look at him.
00:14:58He's a hunk.
00:14:59He is selling with Denali Stud and you can see him in person at Keeneland
00:15:04Sales Grounds in barn number five at Denali.
00:15:07Stone Street's book one offerings alone include cults and
00:15:11Phillies by top sires Tapit, Good Magic, Uncle Moe, Into Mischief and Curlin.
00:15:17Stone Street born to run, raised to win.
00:15:21So we've talked about some of the things that didn't go quite so well at Saratoga.
00:15:26Let's talk about the things that did.
00:15:28And I wrote down, I jotted down my highlights of the meet and I'll go
00:15:33through through them real quickly.
00:15:34And I would imagine that Zoe and Randy would probably agree with most of
00:15:38these first of all, Arcangelo winning the Traverse tremendous performance in that race.
00:15:43It was a race where we wanted to find out who was the best three year old male on the dirt.
00:15:48We not only found out, we found out with the definitive performance where
00:15:52Arcangelo proved without a shadow of a doubt, he's number one.
00:15:56Jenna Antonucci story has been a great story throughout the year.
00:15:58She did it again.
00:16:00Um, Echo Zulu winning two big races, the honorable miss and the ballerina
00:16:05getting one 12 buyer figures and each one ties Cody's wish for the best
00:16:11figure of any horse to run in the U S uh, this year.
00:16:16And how about Linda Rice?
00:16:18She was, she won the first race of the meet the last race of the meet with 20 races to go.
00:16:24She trailed Chad Brown by five wins and she caught him in the very last race.
00:16:29This was the fifth consecutive title.
00:16:32She either won or finished in a tie for first place at Naira, starting with the
00:16:372022 aqua fall meet what she's been doing over the last year and a half is
00:16:41absolutely remarkable, but my number one highlight of the meet Casa Creed.
00:16:47Seven years old, two stakes wins, including the four star Dave wins, the Kelso Lee
00:16:54Einstein, who we had on, uh, as a green group guest of the week, a couple of weeks
00:17:00ago, easy guy to root for.
00:17:01I just think that that seven year old cool old horse winning that grade one.
00:17:07That's my vote for the highlight of the meet you guys.
00:17:10Oh, you don't even need me.
00:17:11And Zoe, you got all the, you got all the highlights laid out perfectly.
00:17:15Bill.
00:17:15You'd have to talk about doing your homework.
00:17:18It would be the Travers for me.
00:17:19I think in Jen, Jen, Ann and Uchi, you know, again, uh, winning following the Belmont
00:17:25stakes, obviously with, with our can, but all of those Echo Zulu, she would be my vote
00:17:30for horse of the meet if I, uh, if I actually had a vote.
00:17:34Yeah, for me too.
00:17:36Great to see Katie Petrunia piece last week on taking the canoe into the
00:17:42infield there at Saratoga into the lake.
00:17:44I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually sit in that canoe, but the
00:17:47pictures of Jenna and Robert, the exercise rider in the canoe, paddling
00:17:52it, just, just perfect and horse racing needs someone like Jenna right now.
00:17:58You know, on Travers day, she saved the day.
00:18:00She's a good spokesman for the sport.
00:18:03She's very good on social media.
00:18:05She's doing her work with the DRF as well, but she's been engaging with the
00:18:09fans, like wandering around and interviewing random fans, everything
00:18:14she's doing is what the sport needs more of right now.
00:18:17So I do applaud her delighted to see Linda Rice tie the trainers title.
00:18:22I know Chad Brown must've been spitting bricks.
00:18:24He won the opening race on the last day of the meet and had 10 other chances,
00:18:31six seconds and Linda Rice just snags it in the very last race
00:18:36and they tie for the title.
00:18:38And Linda was quoted after she won her first race of the meet.
00:18:42Can you be the leading trainer?
00:18:44Unlikely.
00:18:45When she was leading trainer back in 2009, I believe she won 20 races.
00:18:51She said she would have been glad to win 20 races.
00:18:54She won 35 and tied with Chad Brown.
00:18:57So kudos for her, her win percentage.
00:19:00Was higher than Chad Brown's, uh, Chad Brown, you, you know, you've
00:19:04got to feel for him a little bit.
00:19:0565 races taken off the turf.
00:19:07That is the bulk of his stable right there.
00:19:09So for him just to tie in first place with a plethora of turf runners speaks
00:19:15volumes for his stable and how far it has come with their dirt runners.
00:19:19He can no longer be pegged as purely just a turf trainer, but kudos to Linda Rice
00:19:24and her team, Jose Ortiz, everyone working very, very hard to get that done.
00:19:29I think her final total was 147 starts, 35 wins.
00:19:35Chad was 183 to 35.
00:19:39And Chad's primary owner, Seth Klarman had another fantastic meet at Saratoga.
00:19:45You go back and look at the last 10 years, I think, or thereabouts, he's
00:19:49topped the owner's standings at Saratoga.
00:19:51Saratoga is also always about top two year olds and Klarman had arguably, I
00:19:56thought the two most impressive of the two year olds to run, he had the Philly
00:20:01Ways and Means, who was an unlucky loser in the spinaway last weekend.
00:20:06And on Saturday, he had a horse break his maiden by the name of General
00:20:09Partner, the 92 buyer speed figure.
00:20:12I thought visually it was extremely impressive.
00:20:15And I think you'll probably hear some noise about General Partner when it
00:20:19comes time for the champagne at Belmont.
00:20:21And I'm at Ortiz, love him or hate him.
00:20:23He's dominating once more.
00:20:25We'll see 65 to Jose's 25.
00:20:29That's a big spread.
00:20:30I guess it'll be the champagne at Aqueduct, Bill, right?
00:20:34Yes, it will be.
00:20:34Yes.
00:20:36Or back, be a Belmont at Aqueduct.
00:20:38Remember, they branded it differently.
00:20:42So we go out with the Jockey Club Gold Cup, as you guys mentioned.
00:20:47I'm not going to knock bright future, but it is a guy who's been following New York
00:20:52racing since the seventies and, and, you know, somewhat of a historian.
00:20:56It pains me to see a race of the magnitude, the Jockey Club Gold Cup
00:21:00turn into just another race.
00:21:01Um, you know, you didn't have any of the big stars in there.
00:21:04Good luck to bright future.
00:21:05He did look good, but, uh, the only other time he even tried
00:21:08great at stakes opponents, he ran in the Brooklyn and he got beat
00:21:10about four football fields.
00:21:12So I don't know how good he is.
00:21:13Um, the, uh, spinaway, as you mentioned, Randy, um, a big effort from Ways and
00:21:18Means, but I was just generally, um, disappointed to see, uh, her get beat,
00:21:23even though she got beat by a good horse in, in bright work.
00:21:26Cause I was like you at that maiden race.
00:21:28I thought, wow, the sky's the limit for this horse.
00:21:30I mean, you know, if you could find a future book for the
00:21:32Breeders' Cup, juvenile Phillies, I'm getting down, I understand all that.
00:21:39Yeah.
00:21:39She ran great, but I was just disappointed.
00:21:42Now, and how about the hopeful and a shout out Gary Contessa has won two races all
00:21:51year, two races at all year, they just happened to be the Schuylerville and now
00:21:57the hopeful with Nutella fella, a $12,000 Keeneland September purchase.
00:22:04They bought privately after the horse broke its maiden at Delaware park and the
00:22:08first ever grade one winner for, uh, the sire run happy.
00:22:14So I'm sure mattress Mac was doing somersaults, Randy, uh, you, you have
00:22:19this great knowledge of history and you go down the rabbit hole.
00:22:21I'm gonna ask you this question.
00:22:23Who was the last hopeful winner to win the Kentucky Derby?
00:22:29Can I actually stump them, Zoe?
00:22:30What do you think?
00:22:31Oh, you're totally, yeah.
00:22:32You totally, you totally stumped me.
00:22:34Very hopeful, but I know there've been, there've been a lot more since then.
00:22:38All right, go ahead.
00:22:39Well, it just goes to show you how, how hopeful winners have not fared.
00:22:42Well, coming into the three-year-old year affirmed in 1977, the hopeful winner.
00:22:48And of course the triple crown winner of 1978.
00:22:51Now fleet Alex did win the, uh, hopeful when came back to win some triple crown
00:22:55races, but the last Kentucky Derby winner.
00:22:58You have to go back to affirmed in 1977.
00:23:00Zoe, I stumped him.
00:23:01Can you believe it?
00:23:02That's amazing.
00:23:03Did the secretary had even run in the hopeful?
00:23:05I don't, I think he did.
00:23:07I, I, he did.
00:23:08I, he won.
00:23:08Yes.
00:23:09Okay.
00:23:09Yeah.
00:23:10All right.
00:23:10Um, so did you happen to see the clip of mattress Mac eating the Nutella?
00:23:16Oh yeah, that's right.
00:23:17Yeah.
00:23:18It looks like he hates it.
00:23:19I mean, how can you not like Nutella?
00:23:21But he was trying to eat the Nutella and praise Nutella fella for winning.
00:23:26And he was just, it just looked like it was excruciating for him to eat the Nutella
00:23:30for run happy's first grade one winner.
00:23:33I think ways and means we'll face off again with bright work in the
00:23:36Breeders' Cup, juvenile Phillies, but you should take a good look at that head on.
00:23:40She clipped heels and then tried to run off down the backside.
00:23:44Right.
00:23:44Uh, and I imagine they'll meet in the Frisette in between as well before they
00:23:48head to the, uh, Breeders' Cup juvenile Philly, so more on the jockey club gold
00:23:52cub, just to just a bit, I mean, it was, it was a grade three level stakes and,
00:23:57and I don't mean to be a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a,
00:24:03a, I don't know what NYRA can do about it, given the Whitney earlier in the
00:24:07meet and given its position on the calendar, uh, on Labor Day weekend.
00:24:11Uh, hopefully this is one off and it'll rebound again next year.
00:24:15Well, what's interesting to me about bright future.
00:24:17I think at proxy's probably a better breeders cup, classic type horse at a mile
00:24:21and a quarter bright, future got away with three quarters and won 14.1 and proxy was,
00:24:26uh, was really getting to him at the end of the race.
00:24:29Uh, but bright future is a son of Curling.
00:24:31He's owned by Mike Rapolli and Vinnie Viola.
00:24:352019, they won the Jockey Club One,
00:24:40finished first in the Jockey Club Gold Cup,
00:24:42by a nose, again, Rapolli, Viola, Todd Pletcher,
00:24:47with a horse named Vino Rosso,
00:24:49who, like Bright Future, is a son of Curlin.
00:24:52Now, in that particular instance in 2019,
00:24:54if you recall, he was disqualified.
00:24:56Yes, the stewards will actually disqualify
00:24:58Irad Ortiz in a grade one stakes race.
00:25:00They did it with Vino Rosso back then,
00:25:02and he went on Bright Future in his very next start
00:25:05to go to Santa Anita and win the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:25:09That's exactly the pattern that Rapolli and Vinnie Viola
00:25:12are hoping for with this son of Curlin,
00:25:15but he's much less accomplished, I think,
00:25:18than Vino Rosso was at this stage of his career.
00:25:21So, he's got a lot more work to do,
00:25:23I think, than Vino Rosso did.
00:25:26GED and Rider's Room, also brought to you
00:25:28by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:25:31A couple of anniversaries to note.
00:25:32First of all, the PHBA is celebrating 75 years
00:25:37since its founding.
00:25:38Over the past 10 years, the PHBA Breeding Fund
00:25:42has distributed an average of $28.5 million each year
00:25:47in awards, in owner bonuses, in restricted race purses,
00:25:51and Breeder and Stallion Awards.
00:25:53The other anniversary, congratulations to PHBA
00:25:56Executive Director, Brian Sanfortello,
00:25:59celebrating a 50-year wedding anniversary.
00:26:02Way to go, Brian.
00:26:03Reminder, the next two races in the PA Sire,
00:26:06PA Breed Stallion Series, September 23rd,
00:26:09each at 6 1⁄2 furlongs, each with a purse of $150,000.
00:26:13To learn more about that and about owning and breeding
00:26:18in Pennsylvania in general, you can go to pabreeder,
00:26:22it's an email address, not a website,
00:26:24email pabreeder at gmail.com.
00:26:28The PA Horse Breeders Association
00:26:30presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:26:33Six races for PA Sire, PA bred two-year-olds at parks.
00:26:37Two $100,000 contests at 5 1⁄2 furlongs
00:26:41on August 21st, PA Day at the Races.
00:26:44September 23rd, PA Derby Day,
00:26:46as two races at 6 1⁄2 furlongs,
00:26:49both with a $150,000 purse.
00:26:52And in December, two races going long,
00:26:54each worth $200,000.
00:26:56For more, go to pabred.com.
00:26:58The T&E and Writers Room is brought to you
00:27:00by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:27:03This week, we're gonna talk about Outwork,
00:27:06the third leading fourth crop sire
00:27:08by grade one winners behind, only not this time.
00:27:11And Nike was just this week,
00:27:13he got a grade one winner with Brightwork.
00:27:15We talked about winning the Spinaway Stakes,
00:27:17she's now four for four lifetime.
00:27:19And it's the second straight year
00:27:22that Outwork has sired the winner of the Spinaway.
00:27:25Last year, Leave No Trace, also a daughter of Outwork.
00:27:28And why not?
00:27:29Outwork had precocious two-year-old form himself.
00:27:32He broke his maiden in April at Keeneland
00:27:35in one of those 4 1⁄2 furlong baby races.
00:27:37And of course, also won a grade one in New York,
00:27:39the Wood Memorial, as a three-year-old Outwork
00:27:41standing stud at Windstar Farm.
00:27:45This week's fastest horse is of the week.
00:27:48Yes, two of them.
00:27:50Obviously Bright Future winning the Jockey Club Gold Cup
00:27:53with that 103 buyer speed figure,
00:27:55but also getting a 103 buyer.
00:27:57Same day, West Coast, Del Mar,
00:28:00the Green Flash Handicap went to Motorius,
00:28:04owned by Anthony Manticola,
00:28:06trained by Phil D'Amato, who had three horses in the race.
00:28:10He finished first, third, and fourth in the Green Flash.
00:28:14Motorius in his last six starts
00:28:16has had four wins in two seconds.
00:28:18That was a five furlong turf race at Del Mar.
00:28:21So he obviously becomes one of the leading
00:28:23West Coast candidates for the Breeders' Cup Turf Sprint
00:28:27at Santa Anita.
00:28:29Two fastest horses of the week, Bright Future and Motorius.
00:28:35The TD and Writer's Room is brought to you
00:28:37by The Green Group, a tax accounting,
00:28:39consulting, and advisory firm
00:28:41specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:28:44For more information about how The Green Group
00:28:46can save you some hard-earned cash,
00:28:48go to www.greenco.com.
00:28:52And we welcome in now The Green Group guests of the week,
00:28:55and it's none other than Ted Nicholson,
00:28:57Vice President of Racing at Kentucky Downs.
00:28:59The meet started last week, continues through this weekend.
00:29:02And Ted, it's such a great story every year
00:29:05because Kentucky Downs just gets bigger
00:29:08and better and richer.
00:29:10Better horses, bigger fields, more money being bet.
00:29:13This year you have 11 stakes races
00:29:17worth $1 million or more.
00:29:19The purses are astronomical,
00:29:21$150,000 made in special weight races.
00:29:24But take me through the economics of Kentucky Downs.
00:29:27I mean, obviously this revenue is coming
00:29:29from the historical horse racing machines.
00:29:31What's happening that every year
00:29:33you're able to put more and more money into the program?
00:29:36Well, it's a great question, Bill,
00:29:38and thanks for having me.
00:29:40So the HHR machines obviously generate
00:29:44the lion's share of the business,
00:29:47but they also, with the added element
00:29:52of us having satellite locations.
00:29:55So we have a satellite location in Bowling Green
00:29:59that is also generating HHR revenues.
00:30:03So that also helps us on the purse side,
00:30:07but that also, that revenue or that purse structure money
00:30:14also goes to Keeneland and to Alice.
00:30:16We send that money through the KTDF and the HBPA every year.
00:30:22Yeah, Ted, I think that's something,
00:30:23it doesn't fly under the radar so much in the industry,
00:30:27but I think racing fans don't really realize
00:30:30the extent to which Kentucky Downs casino revenues,
00:30:35HHR revenues, support the other purse structures
00:30:38of racetracks in Kentucky.
00:30:39Talk about that a little bit and how that got started
00:30:42and to what level you're contributing
00:30:45to the purse structure around the state.
00:30:47Randy, that's also a good question.
00:30:49And it all started back probably before I got here,
00:30:53and I got here in 2015.
00:30:56It was a joined effort between the KTDF,
00:31:01the previous owner, Corey Johnson, and the HBPA.
00:31:06And we saw in 2014 a starting to elevate our,
00:31:16we only had a few, we only ran five days.
00:31:19And I think Corey felt like we really needed
00:31:22to prop up Ellis Park because there was such a large gap
00:31:26between Ellis and the others.
00:31:29And so before I got here,
00:31:32they had discussed trying to get them as much excess,
00:31:37any surplus that Kentucky Downs was gonna have
00:31:40at the end of each year,
00:31:42we would earmark that money towards purse structure
00:31:46at Ellis to get them to a little bit higher level.
00:31:49And that started off, I believe the first year
00:31:53they did that was 14, and that was right before I got here.
00:31:56And that was about $300,000 that was sent to Ellis.
00:32:00Last year, or this year, we sent Ellis 4.5.
00:32:04And that's, again, that 4.5 million is a combination
00:32:08of KTDF and the HBPA association money.
00:32:15And we've seen in those, what, nine years, eight, nine years
00:32:20that it just didn't go from A to B.
00:32:24It was a stair-step elevation every year
00:32:27of being able to get monies to Ellis
00:32:33and recently to Keeneland.
00:32:36And the Keeneland piece was to try and help Keeneland
00:32:39get into, especially in the spring, to compete with Oakland
00:32:43because Oakland's purses had elevated to a point
00:32:46where a lot of trainers were saying,
00:32:48should I race this maiden at Oakland,
00:32:50or should I, you know, or not just a maiden,
00:32:54but any horse, at Oakland, or should I wait for Keeneland
00:32:57like I normally would?
00:32:58And so that, we wanted to alleviate that question
00:33:02in their mind.
00:33:04And then with Ellis, we saw a lot of local Louisville,
00:33:11Lexington trainers who normally probably would have taken
00:33:16a shot sending horses up to Saratoga, but decided,
00:33:19you know what, the pots aren't that bad at Ellis,
00:33:22so, you know, why not run there?
00:33:25And they've always had a very safe surface at Ellis.
00:33:29So that was kind of a combination too.
00:33:31If you had a baby, you'd probably rather try
00:33:33and run them at Ellis than you would sending them
00:33:36to run against the millionaires at Saratoga.
00:33:39All right, quick follow-up.
00:33:40So is this all benevolence,
00:33:41or do you see it tangibly helping Kentucky Downs?
00:33:46You know, it's really a benevolent thing that was started.
00:33:51There's, obviously for the whole Commonwealth
00:33:57of Kentucky, it's important.
00:33:59And that's why this was started.
00:34:01There's, you know, we want to make sure that when horses,
00:34:05when owners and trainers are sitting there in Lexington
00:34:09at the sales, they're making a decision based on
00:34:13not just our meat or Keeneland's meat,
00:34:15they're making it based on the whole region,
00:34:21because you really want your horses to stay localized.
00:34:26And what we've seen, I think, over the course of the last,
00:34:30at least for me, the last four or five years,
00:34:32is we're getting a lot more owners that want to race here
00:34:36because they have a Kentucky bred,
00:34:37and it makes way more sense for them to run in Kentucky
00:34:40than they would in California.
00:34:42The cost of living in California has gotten out of control.
00:34:47You know, every expense is more than double
00:34:50what it is, you know, in Kentucky.
00:34:52So it makes more sense.
00:34:53You're running for twice as much money,
00:34:55but your expenses are half.
00:34:57Any businessman would do that math.
00:35:00So essentially you are boosting
00:35:02a year round Kentucky circuit,
00:35:05and it's going to benefit Kentucky Downs as well.
00:35:072017, total handled 30 million.
00:35:10Last year, a whopping $80 million,
00:35:14which leads me to your next question.
00:35:16You've put in some improvements there.
00:35:18I was last at Kentucky Downs 21 years ago.
00:35:22Where are you right now?
00:35:23Are you in the brand new hotel?
00:35:25I actually am in one of the suites in the hotel
00:35:29that sits at the eighth pole.
00:35:30So yeah, we've done a lot.
00:35:33Every year we try to pick off something
00:35:36or some things that we can do to improve the facility
00:35:40for whether it's for horsemen,
00:35:43or whether it's a guest experience.
00:35:45This year, it's kind of a combination.
00:35:47The guest experience is the hotel.
00:35:50You know, you all weren't here last year,
00:35:53but we had like a big ugly blue fence
00:35:56that surrounded the hotel
00:35:58because it was under construction.
00:35:59That's all gone.
00:36:00Everything looks wonderful.
00:36:02Actually on Sunday, we're going to have a pool party
00:36:04that sits, you know, again, right at the eighth pole.
00:36:07So you could be hanging by the pool
00:36:09and then go make a bet, go watch the race at the rail,
00:36:11all within a hundred feet of each other.
00:36:15And so, yeah, we try to do everything for all
00:36:19and not just zero in on one thing.
00:36:21And this year on the horseman side,
00:36:23we built a horseman's viewing deck,
00:36:26which we've never had before.
00:36:28I used to see a lot of horsemen try to sneak up
00:36:30to the media tower so that they could kind of
00:36:33get a better view of their horses coming down the stretch.
00:36:35So in lieu of that, what we decided was just
00:36:40as a horseman come out of the paddock,
00:36:43instead of them walking out to the apron,
00:36:45we built a viewing deck right there.
00:36:50It's right at the wire.
00:36:51It's a perfect location.
00:36:52And so far in the first three days,
00:36:54it's been extremely well-received.
00:36:56The other, I think some people might think
00:36:59is a minor improvement,
00:37:00but it really, I think is a big improvement.
00:37:02And I got probably just as many wows from it
00:37:06than I did the horseman viewing area
00:37:08is we did a lot of asphalting in space
00:37:11that was mostly gravel in years past.
00:37:14And as a horse person, you can fully understand
00:37:20if you were in one of those barns
00:37:21that's right near the gravel,
00:37:22that dust comes up and you don't like
00:37:24your horses breathing that.
00:37:25So we've really made a concerted effort
00:37:29to asphalt as much as we possibly can,
00:37:32not only in the backstretch,
00:37:33but also that roadway that leads
00:37:35from the backstretch to the jock squarters.
00:37:39Ted, I know this question comes up every year,
00:37:42but I'll ask it again.
00:37:43You have so much money to allocate towards purses.
00:37:46You get such big fields.
00:37:48You get a very robust handle.
00:37:52Is there any room, if it's this good now,
00:37:55why wouldn't you add,
00:37:56I'm not saying going to a 30-day meet,
00:37:59but why wouldn't you add a couple of days to the meet?
00:38:01The only answer that I could give you, Bill,
00:38:03that's on my mind would be safety.
00:38:07And that's obviously on everybody's mind
00:38:10these days is safety.
00:38:12And so if I added a day,
00:38:15it would have to be a day
00:38:17where it would be almost like a spare day
00:38:23because the reality is when you run 75 races
00:38:28over a turf course, and we have three lanes,
00:38:30don't get me wrong,
00:38:31but if you're running on three lanes,
00:38:35you're running 25 on average races on each lane,
00:38:41that's a lot of pounding.
00:38:43I mean, I've got the best turf guy in the business
00:38:45with Butch Lear, who used to be at Churchill for 45 years,
00:38:49but even Butch would shake his head and go,
00:38:51I wouldn't do it.
00:38:52So to answer your question,
00:38:54I think we're going to be at seven for a little while
00:38:57until I can figure out how I can add a fourth lane.
00:39:01You got the same turf usage problems
00:39:03as Ascot and Goodwood, places like that now.
00:39:08So Kentucky Downs always had one
00:39:13of the lowest takeout rates,
00:39:14the lowest probably of any racetrack in America,
00:39:1914% win place in show, for example.
00:39:22This year, you made the decision to boost takeout 1%
00:39:27across the board in spite of how much success you've had
00:39:31in the wagering product over the last few years.
00:39:34What led to that decision?
00:39:37Well, I can tell you straight out, Randy, it wasn't easy.
00:39:39It wasn't made in a vacuum.
00:39:43The decision was really a tough one.
00:39:47It was made back in February.
00:39:49I think Jenny put out a press release back in early March
00:39:56that we were going to do it.
00:39:59And the reason behind it was I had to find a way
00:40:06to find some revenue.
00:40:09It's great to have great big purses.
00:40:12Like you said, $80 million in handle last year.
00:40:17But when you're running only for two weeks
00:40:21and you have an inordinate amount of expenses
00:40:25to put up a temporary show,
00:40:27it's not like I was at Arlington,
00:40:31we just flicked on the lights and spruced up the grounds
00:40:38and made Mr. D happy and away we go.
00:40:41Well, you can't do that here.
00:40:44We don't have a grandstand.
00:40:45So I have a lot of tents.
00:40:47I have a lot of temporary expenses.
00:40:51I have to ship in stuff.
00:40:53Our TV crew's temporary, basically everybody's temporary.
00:40:59And so I have 60 people that live here temporarily,
00:41:04which means I put them up in hotels
00:41:08to pull off this show for two weeks
00:41:10or three, they're here at typically for three weeks.
00:41:12So I have a lot of expenses.
00:41:14They're all going up.
00:41:15Even the people that you see in between the races,
00:41:21those folks that are on the turf
00:41:23and they're tamping down those divots,
00:41:26those folks used to work for $10 an hour.
00:41:29Now it's 25.
00:41:31So you can see where my expenses have gone.
00:41:34Now, on top of that, you fold into getting a bill
00:41:38from HISA for $650,000 for a seven-day race meet.
00:41:44And that's something I think a lot of people don't realize
00:41:47that you're having to swallow something
00:41:53that before I was paying the state of Kentucky $48,000
00:41:57for the same exact work that's being done.
00:42:03The processes that the state of Kentucky does
00:42:06or has been doing, it really didn't change much
00:42:08because I think HISA utilized
00:42:10what Kentucky's policies and procedures were.
00:42:13And they said, yeah, you guys do it right.
00:42:16Let's invite the rest of us,
00:42:19the rest of the racetracks in Kentucky
00:42:21and some of the bigger tracks around the country
00:42:23have had to take the brunt of the expenses.
00:42:27So when you fold in the inordinate amount of expenses
00:42:30that have been skyrocketing in the HISA bill,
00:42:34I felt like had to go a little higher.
00:42:37Now, you said that we used to have the lowest per structure
00:42:40or the takeouts in the United States.
00:42:43We still do.
00:42:44When you take the blend of bets, and that's why I did it.
00:42:49I was, you know, there were some, you know,
00:42:51that would probably say, hey, well, why didn't you go higher?
00:42:53Well, I'm not, I didn't wanna go higher.
00:42:55I wanted to keep the horse players happy.
00:42:58And I wanted to be able to be 1% under,
00:43:02at least 1% under the bigger tracks.
00:43:05So Keeneland is 19.2, we're at 18.2.
00:43:08Churchill is 19.9, California is 20.2.
00:43:14I think New York is like 20.
00:43:16So we're still far below what everybody else
00:43:20that's at our racing levels, you know,
00:43:24when you have persons like this and the jockeys
00:43:26and the trainers and the product,
00:43:29we're still far below everybody else.
00:43:32And, but you're still making an awful lot of money.
00:43:34I think I read that Kentucky Downs,
00:43:36I don't know how many million,
00:43:37but it's a lot of million that you are netting
00:43:40in commission, which may lead some people to say,
00:43:44why aren't you building a grandstand?
00:43:45You have all of this money that you're making
00:43:47off of the revenue and it comes in.
00:43:50Are you still trying to go for the country fair
00:43:55kind of vibe there?
00:43:56Is that what you're going for?
00:43:58Because people might roll up there and be like,
00:44:00well, all this money, why don't we have a grandstand?
00:44:02Why isn't there a suite?
00:44:03Why isn't there this?
00:44:05And I love Kentucky Downs.
00:44:07I know what you're saying.
00:44:10And so you can't, I can't tell you, Zoe,
00:44:12how many times people have said to me,
00:44:15I love this atmosphere.
00:44:17So don't ever change it.
00:44:19Well, the grandstand, putting a grandstand up,
00:44:22I think would change the genuine feel
00:44:28of what Kentucky Downs is really all about.
00:44:32I think people love the ability to just pull up
00:44:36and tailgate it at the top of the stretch
00:44:38or pull out their, I call them soccer mom chairs
00:44:43and whatever, they're those unfoldable,
00:44:46quick pop it down chairs.
00:44:48They're all over the place, mid stretch.
00:44:51And you're bringing a cooler and you're having fun
00:44:54and you're watching the races.
00:44:56And so that's the essence of what this place is.
00:45:01That plus the fact that you stand there and you look
00:45:05and you're saying to yourself, wow,
00:45:06from the mile pole to the three quarters,
00:45:09that is dramatically elevated.
00:45:13And you don't see it that much on television.
00:45:16And then when Larry says they're going down the hill,
00:45:18you really don't see it as much as you do
00:45:21when you're actually here.
00:45:22I know, Bill, you were here a couple of years ago
00:45:25and so you know what I'm talking about.
00:45:28So when they get to that three quarter pole,
00:45:31there is a dramatic drop and they go down a hill
00:45:34and around the turn and as they actually,
00:45:37I mean, Zoe, you probably wrote here,
00:45:39when you get to the top of the lane,
00:45:41now you're starting to go back up a hill a little bit.
00:45:45So all of those things you would never wanna change.
00:45:49I don't think I'd really wanna change the fact
00:45:51that we, putting up a grandstand.
00:45:53Now, will we start to do other things
00:45:55to improve the experience?
00:45:58Yeah, like I said before, we wanna do that every year
00:46:01to improve it, but not lose the real true essence
00:46:05of what this place is all about.
00:46:07And that's fair enough.
00:46:08I mean, the stretch is three eighths of a mile long.
00:46:11It's pretty much the longest stretch in North America.
00:46:13There could be room for both, but we'll move on from that.
00:46:17It's a terrific place to be.
00:46:18And I think I just missed leading rider
00:46:21by one there many moons ago.
00:46:22And I can attest that it really is one
00:46:25of the most unique racetrack, not only surfaces,
00:46:29but just the configuration of the downhill, uphill
00:46:32and being the probably most arduous stretch
00:46:35in North America.
00:46:36If you're on the lead at the head of the lane,
00:46:37you have an awful long way to go.
00:46:40And you referenced television.
00:46:42Thank you, by the way, for improving the TV coverage
00:46:47of Kentucky Downs this year.
00:46:48It is noticeable.
00:46:50Well, I will tell you, all that TV credit goes
00:46:53to somebody I worked with years ago at Churchill.
00:46:57His name is David Loindon, and he is an old pro
00:47:02at not only TV, but also horse racing TV.
00:47:05And he's always coming up with different ideas.
00:47:11The good thing that we were able to do on the TV this year
00:47:15was we were able to put a permanent camera
00:47:18on top of one of the hotel,
00:47:23it's actually the event center that sits between the hotel
00:47:26and the gaming facility, but it's a permanent location.
00:47:30You get a really good view of the horses
00:47:32as they leave the gate and go down
00:47:34to that three-quarter pole.
00:47:37David was the one who came up with the idea
00:47:39of putting a camera in our cornfields
00:47:43that you could shoot as the horses are going
00:47:46around the turn.
00:47:49Unfortunately, we only run seven days.
00:47:50So the TV guys are just now starting to get the hang
00:47:55of switching and making sure that you can see those horses
00:47:58as they're right in front of you
00:47:59as they go past the half mile pole.
00:48:02But all in all, I think we just are always trying
00:48:05to figure out a better way for our guests to,
00:48:08the horse player that's sitting in Des Moines, Iowa,
00:48:10to the guy who's on his computer
00:48:12and supposed to be working or doing his homework.
00:48:17So you can know where your horse is.
00:48:19There's nothing worse than watching a race,
00:48:21having a bet on a race and not knowing where your horse is.
00:48:25Has it surprised you that more Europeans
00:48:28have not made the trek over?
00:48:29I mean, we saw ancient Rome just dominate.
00:48:31Have you been out there sourcing and like treading down,
00:48:36knocking down Aidan O'Brien's door and being like,
00:48:38hey, look, this is what we've got.
00:48:40Where are you?
00:48:41You know, they seem to have thought
00:48:42the Arlington Million disappeared.
00:48:44Why don't you come to Kentucky Downs?
00:48:46You know, we have made a concerted effort
00:48:50to try and get horses from Europe to come.
00:48:56I think with the horse ancient Rome winning the other day,
00:49:02I think that will bode well for us in the future.
00:49:07We had a foreign horse one last year as well,
00:49:09but it'll come.
00:49:13You know, I think it takes a little while
00:49:15for word to spread across the pond,
00:49:18but we're gonna be being a heck of a lot more active
00:49:23in trying to get that spot of our business to improve.
00:49:30But it was nice to see.
00:49:33I was actually, this is almost embarrassing to say,
00:49:37but I actually was the one who made sure
00:49:42that that barn was disinfected for the USDA.
00:49:46So ancient Rome owes me a little bit of time and money
00:49:50because I made sure that that was okay for that.
00:49:53The USDA came in and we had to spray a specific disinfectant
00:50:00and make sure that whole barn,
00:50:02and it's the old vet barn, if you remember.
00:50:04It's the old vet barn that only had eight stalls.
00:50:07So we had two foreign horses in those eight stalls.
00:50:10But anyway, yeah, we got lucky and he ran big.
00:50:17Ted, can I just add, now that we're on that subject,
00:50:19I just want to add something to it.
00:50:22Horses that are not Kentucky breds
00:50:24don't run for the same money as the Kentucky breds.
00:50:27Most European shippers obviously
00:50:30would not be Kentucky breds.
00:50:31Ancient Rome was a Kentucky bred.
00:50:34So didn't that certainly play into the plans
00:50:37of the stable to come in and race for the,
00:50:40you know, he's racing for the full tilt
00:50:42for the $2 million purse.
00:50:44Yeah, so, you know, that's part of the, you know,
00:50:49the thought process.
00:50:50But if you are, you know, almost to Zoe's point,
00:50:55if you're sitting there and, I mean,
00:50:58I went to Epsom Downs with my son in April
00:51:01and if I was a trainer of a horse there,
00:51:04because that configuration is somewhat similar
00:51:07to what we have, I would, even if it's,
00:51:12so for example, if the race is a million dollars
00:51:15and we had a lot of them,
00:51:17if you're running for 600,000 instead of a million,
00:51:21but find me a race in Europe that's not on Arc Day,
00:51:26that's not a million, you know,
00:51:28that's not a $600,000 purse.
00:51:30So if you have a, you know, a foreign bred horse
00:51:35and you're thinking, even remotely thinking Breeders' Cup
00:51:39at all, it makes way too much sense
00:51:42for you to bring your horse here, run here, win here,
00:51:46and then you're gonna go and, you know,
00:51:48run well in the Breeders' Cup.
00:51:50So it doesn't have to be the purse only being X
00:51:56comparative to Y because you're a Kentucky bred.
00:51:59It shouldn't play into anybody's, you know,
00:52:03thought process.
00:52:04I would think that you should be looking at it and say,
00:52:06wow, we're running for 600,000, that's pretty strong.
00:52:09Can you foresee having a grade one race there?
00:52:12Is that coming soon?
00:52:14So Zoe, can you make sure that happens?
00:52:22Because I was asked by somebody else in the media,
00:52:25like, so what is your dream of, you know, going forward?
00:52:29What should happen?
00:52:30What do you want to happen?
00:52:31And I said, I really wanna make sure we get a grade one.
00:52:35That's what I want.
00:52:36So we've done everything we possibly can.
00:52:39I've had numerous conversations with Bill
00:52:42and Dave Johnson on their show.
00:52:46It's every year we do whatever we can
00:52:49and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this is the year,
00:52:54that this is the year that we get over the top
00:52:57in one of our many races that our twos get elevated to one.
00:53:02I guess we'll find out.
00:53:03Zoe will get the credit.
00:53:04Yeah, Zoe, come January.
00:53:07Come January, we can have a celebration,
00:53:10you know, somewhere warm, hopefully.
00:53:14I'll be looking for the check in the mail.
00:53:17I'll meet you there.
00:53:18All right.
00:53:20Very good.
00:53:21Well, Ted Nicholson, congratulations
00:53:23on all the success Kentucky Downs has had so far.
00:53:26And we'll see if you can top
00:53:28that $80 million handle record was set last year.
00:53:31I'm sure if you continue to have good weather,
00:53:32that's gonna fall as well.
00:53:34Kentucky Downs, very special race meet.
00:53:37The motto they use or the slogan they use
00:53:40on our radio show is there's unique
00:53:43and then there's Kentucky Downs.
00:53:44I think that speaks very well
00:53:45about how special that track is,
00:53:47especially for the horse players,
00:53:49the horsemen, for everybody in the game.
00:53:50Ted, thanks so much and have a good run
00:53:53for the final week at Kentucky Downs.
00:53:55I appreciate it.
00:53:56Thank you very much.
00:53:57Good luck to everybody watching on Bet In The Races.
00:54:02As the Green Group guest of the week,
00:54:03Ted Nicholson will receive a free one hour tax consultation
00:54:08from Len Green and company at the Green Group.
00:54:10If you wanna find out more,
00:54:11just go again to www.greenco.com.
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00:54:22and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
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00:54:30the Green Group founder Len Green has owned
00:54:33and bred some of the best race horses
00:54:35in the history of the sport.
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00:54:39Jaywalk and Wonder Wheel.
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00:55:16With some of the fullest fields in the country
00:55:19and quality racing year round,
00:55:21there's never been a better time to reap the rewards
00:55:24of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:55:28Purse money in Kentucky is at an all time high.
00:55:31As is average purse per race,
00:55:33outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:55:37Kentucky breads, breed them, raise them, race them.
00:55:42We all win.
00:55:46Do you know where Kentucky breads are winning?
00:55:49I'll tell you, all over the world.
00:55:51This week alone, Kentucky breads won two group races
00:55:55and had a new TDN rising star in England and Ireland.
00:55:59Opera singer, a two-year-old filly by Justify
00:56:02won the grade three New Tannanus Stud Irish EBF stakes
00:56:05at the Currer in Ireland to stamp herself
00:56:08as one of the leading two-year-old fillies in Europe.
00:56:12Passenger won the grade three Weatherby's Global Stallions
00:56:15Winter Hill stakes, try saying that, it's a mouthful,
00:56:19at Royal Windsor in England.
00:56:21And then finally, two-year-old Ebden Shadad
00:56:24was named the newest TDN rising star in England
00:56:27winning a race at Newmarket.
00:56:29That is three of seven impressive Kentucky bread winners
00:56:34in Europe this past week alone.
00:56:36If you're shopping at Keeneland September,
00:56:39shop Kentucky breads.
00:56:40Kentucky breads, breed them, raise them, race them
00:56:45all over the world, literally.
00:56:48Well, you've been spending a lot of time on Saratoga.
00:56:50Let's head out West and find out what's going on at Del Mar.
00:56:53Last weekend, of course, the Pacific Classic
00:56:56and coming up is the final weekend of racing at Del Mar.
00:56:59We obviously want to talk about the Pacific Classic
00:57:01before we get into this.
00:57:02And Zoe, always good to have a jockey on when
00:57:05we talk about jockey issues.
00:57:08It's a new world with the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety
00:57:10Authority.
00:57:12The Italian jockey, Antonio Fresu,
00:57:14who was second in the standings at Del Mar,
00:57:18he was a naughty boy.
00:57:20He kept accumulating one crop and fraction after another.
00:57:25Once again, you can only strike the horse six times.
00:57:28And then if you go over the six,
00:57:31there's an escalating series of penalties.
00:57:33So you get more points if you strike the horse
00:57:37eight versus 10 versus 12 or whatever.
00:57:39So lo and behold, when everything was compiled,
00:57:44they looked at all the points.
00:57:45They looked at the infractions.
00:57:46They looked at what, again, the point structure was.
00:57:50He was given a 32-day suspension for misuse of the whip
00:57:57or overuse of the whip.
00:57:58I talked to Alberto yesterday.
00:58:00And here's what he had to say.
00:58:01He says, I am new in this country.
00:58:03And where I rode before, you can use the crop more times.
00:58:05When I came here, I needed to change my style
00:58:07and keep count.
00:58:08Most of the times, I was just one over the limit.
00:58:11It's not so easy to keep count, especially
00:58:13when you are fighting for a win or head
00:58:14to head with another horse.
00:58:16It's my own fault. The other jockeys
00:58:17adapted to these new rules.
00:58:18The last couple of weeks, it happened three times
00:58:20in three days.
00:58:21And I won every one of those races by a nose.
00:58:23It shouldn't have happened, but I
00:58:25don't think it's really fair.
00:58:26It's not like you're riding in a way
00:58:27where you get other people in trouble or in a bad spot.
00:58:30It's not doing something dangerous.
00:58:31So I think the penalty is a little harsh.
00:58:33Still, I want to change, and I want to improve.
00:58:35I want to do my best and not make mistakes like this
00:58:38anymore.
00:58:40This is pretty draconian, 32 days for this,
00:58:42but those are the rules.
00:58:43He understood the rules, and he broke them, Zoe.
00:58:4632 calendar days, so not racing days.
00:58:49We have to make that.
00:58:52And he's going to appeal them.
00:58:54I'm not buying the fact that the whip rules are
00:58:58less stringent in Europe.
00:58:59Everybody knows that they are as stringent as they are here.
00:59:03They always have been.
00:59:04I mean, we've cracked down in recent years
00:59:07and in North America, but in Europe,
00:59:10they've always been cracked down.
00:59:11So I'm not buying that story.
00:59:13Antonio is a smart guy, a very good rider,
00:59:16and he's doing what he feels he needs to win.
00:59:19So he's going to pay the cost.
00:59:21I don't know how he'll be able to appeal all 32 days.
00:59:26They are calendar days.
00:59:27We race three days a week at the moment in Southern California.
00:59:30So we'll have to see how that plays itself out.
00:59:33But you break the rules, you're going to pay.
00:59:35He knows the rules.
00:59:36It's going to have to count.
00:59:37It's as simple as that.
00:59:38They're the same rules for everybody else.
00:59:40You do it three times in three days, and you win by a nose.
00:59:43Fortunately, the owners aren't having to forfeit the win.
00:59:47That is very good, but he's going to have to pay.
00:59:51Sorry, Antonio. He's a smart guy.
00:59:52It's not like he's some dumb jock.
00:59:55He's well-spoken, well-traveled, smart guy.
00:59:59I'm sure he can count to six.
01:00:02He can obviously count to seven.
01:00:04Just got to learn to count to six.
01:00:05That's all you got to do.
01:00:08He was sufficiently humble and apologetic
01:00:11in what he said to Bill.
01:00:13He said he thought he was a little draconian or whatever.
01:00:15What's he supposed to say?
01:00:17They didn't give me enough?
01:00:19Of course, he's a big guy.
01:00:22It sounds like he's going to try to turn over a new leaf.
01:00:26Again, like you said, Bill, the rules have been right there.
01:00:29They've been front and center.
01:00:30They haven't been hidden.
01:00:31This is not a judgment call, basically.
01:00:35You break the rules, you pay the penalty.
01:00:38People in this game, they love to appeal,
01:00:40but I don't see how he'd have any chance of winning an appeal.
01:00:43It's right there front and center.
01:00:44You show the race, and you count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
01:00:49Uh-oh, you went over.
01:00:50Next race, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
01:00:52What could they possibly have to say through an appeal?
01:00:57But he'll be having a vacation.
01:00:59As Zoe said, though, keep in mind that's calendar days,
01:01:02not racing days.
01:01:03And so that makes it a little bit less severe.
01:01:05OK, so the Pacific Classic, to me,
01:01:08the story was the three-year-olds.
01:01:11And for most of the year, I have been under the impression
01:01:14that this was a really weak group of older horses
01:01:18because everybody and their brother retired last year.
01:01:20I mean, last year's group of three-year-olds
01:01:23and older horses and flight line and whatsoever
01:01:25was extremely strong.
01:01:27Nobody came back.
01:01:28I mean, hardly anybody of consequence.
01:01:30So you would think the three-year-olds this year
01:01:33might have the edge on the older horses.
01:01:36Normally, we don't get the answer to that
01:01:38until the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:01:40But the Pacific Classic did provide an early answer,
01:01:44and it affirmed what I thought all along.
01:01:46The three-year-olds are better.
01:01:48Arabian Knight wins it for Bob Baffert.
01:01:50Go Rocket Ride, it was a close second, both of them
01:01:53coming out of the Haskell.
01:01:55I did not like Arabian Knight.
01:01:58He ran a much better race than he ran in the Haskell.
01:02:01And I also didn't like the fact that John Velasquez,
01:02:04I don't know what the behind-the-scenes thing was,
01:02:06but he didn't come out to the Pacific Classic to ride him.
01:02:09He rode to Kentucky Downs instead,
01:02:11which I thought was a little bit odd.
01:02:12But Randy, I know you've been a big Arabian Knight fan
01:02:15from going back day one.
01:02:17Your take on what I said about the three-year-olds
01:02:20and both Go Rocket Ride and Arabian Knight
01:02:23certainly look like they will be legitimate contenders
01:02:26in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:02:28I guess so.
01:02:30Let's talk about this race first,
01:02:32then we'll talk about the three-year-olds
01:02:33versus older horses in general.
01:02:34Yeah, you're right.
01:02:35I've been a big fan of Arabian Knight.
01:02:37I absolutely loved him in this spot.
01:02:39In fact, thinking that they would take back Defunded,
01:02:43which they did since they're both out of the Baffert Barn,
01:02:45and it looked to me like Arabian Knight
01:02:46would control the pace.
01:02:47And I did not see any way that Go Rocket Ride could beat him.
01:02:51And going down the backstretch,
01:02:52I was patting myself on the back.
01:02:53And then at the quarter pole, I said, uh-oh.
01:02:57But then he comes fighting back on the inside
01:02:59and just manages to hold up Go Rocket Ride.
01:03:01Okay.
01:03:02The three-year-olds clearly better,
01:03:04I think nationally, than the older horses as a group.
01:03:08But in this race, they finished the last quarter mild.
01:03:12Arabian Knight and Go Rocket Ride
01:03:13at about 26 and two-fifths seconds,
01:03:16going a mile and a quarter of the classic distance.
01:03:18That's not very good.
01:03:20And as a matter of fact, it makes me think
01:03:22that neither of these horses
01:03:24are going to be able to handle Arcangelo
01:03:26if he maintains his form
01:03:28out west for the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:03:31The only older horse out there,
01:03:33well, there are two.
01:03:34One of them is gonna surprise you.
01:03:36The main older horse out there,
01:03:37I think, that's waiting in the wings is Wyatt Abario.
01:03:40If he can maintain the same form
01:03:43that he showed in the Whitney, okay?
01:03:45And Rick Duttrell will probably have him
01:03:47clicking on all cylinders.
01:03:49That's the only performance by an older horse,
01:03:53figure-wise, that I think is relevant
01:03:56to the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:03:57But this is gonna be a little bit out there
01:04:02for some people.
01:04:04The best horse to me in the Pacific Classic, okay?
01:04:08And he's gonna be 40 to one
01:04:11if he manages to make it in
01:04:12to the Breeders' Cup Classic field, Señor Buscador.
01:04:16Wow, okay?
01:04:18This horse is ridden as if he's allergic to the rail.
01:04:23He was three or four wide on the first turn.
01:04:25He was five or six wide on the second turn.
01:04:28He was beating two lengths.
01:04:29Plus, he was spotting both Arabian Night
01:04:32and Go Rocket Ride, six pounds, 124 to 118.
01:04:36Won't be quite that much for the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:04:38If this horse can just be ridden
01:04:40to save any ground whatsoever,
01:04:43and it's not the first time for Señor Buscador,
01:04:46go back and look at his last race, too.
01:04:48He's way out there in the middle of the track,
01:04:50and he still runs well.
01:04:52It was a very sneaky, under-the-radar performance
01:04:56by Señor Buscador, and if he gets a pace scenario,
01:05:01first, if he gets into the Breeders' Cup Classic field,
01:05:04and then he gets a pace scenario,
01:05:06and saves any kind of ground,
01:05:08he might be a horse to throw in your exotics
01:05:10at Santa Anita at a huge price.
01:05:12Perhaps he doesn't like the inside.
01:05:14Perhaps he is allergic to the inside.
01:05:16Some horses will only run on the outside.
01:05:19So, I mean, we'll see what Señor Buscador does.
01:05:23So, yeah, I could go with that.
01:05:25I love Go Rocket Ride, and I'm pretty sure
01:05:29that Arabian Night got a masterful piece of riding
01:05:33from Flavian Pratt, getting the opening quarter
01:05:36in 23.35 on the lead.
01:05:40Now, he's ridden Go Rocket Ride.
01:05:42He knows that horse won't run inside behind horses.
01:05:45He knows that.
01:05:46So, Flavian obviously was told,
01:05:47just go to the lead, keep going,
01:05:49slowed it down perfectly, opening quarter.
01:05:52Mike Smith finds himself down on the inside
01:05:55where that horse doesn't like it.
01:05:56He does not like running into dirt,
01:05:58but to his credit, he ran just well enough.
01:06:02He only really started to feel comfortable
01:06:04with Go Rocket Ride was when he got outside
01:06:07of Flavian Pratt coming down the lane,
01:06:09but then it was all over.
01:06:11Flavian knew he had enough left in the tank
01:06:14to keep his horse going,
01:06:16and I think that's what's made the difference
01:06:18was Flavian getting that opening quarter,
01:06:21putting his horse on the lead,
01:06:23and knowing, because he knows Go Rocket Ride
01:06:26better than anyone, that he doesn't like
01:06:27being down on the inside,
01:06:28and that's exactly where he was.
01:06:30It might be a different scenario
01:06:31in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:06:32They were both getting six pounds
01:06:34to the rest of the field, which, am I crazy?
01:06:36Is that not a lot this time of year,
01:06:38six pounds to older women?
01:06:39That sounds like a lot, yeah.
01:06:41Seems like a lot.
01:06:42We're in August.
01:06:42What is it in the Breeders' Cup Classic, Randy?
01:06:45Three?
01:06:46Three or four, I think it's 22, I think is what it is.
01:06:4922, right.
01:06:50It may be three, though.
01:06:51So you mentioned Senior Buscador, Zoe,
01:06:55may not like the rail.
01:06:55Let me share a pet peeve of mine
01:06:58as it pertains to jockeys, all right?
01:07:00And maybe you can shed some light on it.
01:07:03There's really no explanation for it.
01:07:06How many times do you see
01:07:08with a Senior Buscador-type horse, okay?
01:07:11The horse at the back of the pack,
01:07:13no other horses around.
01:07:14Remind me.
01:07:15Remind me who rode it.
01:07:15Giovanni Frankie.
01:07:17Giovanni Frankie.
01:07:18All right, so you're at the back of the pack.
01:07:20Okay, you're riding a dead closer, okay?
01:07:22You're last by three or four lengths.
01:07:24There's no other horse around you, okay?
01:07:26First turn.
01:07:27You're in the four path
01:07:29all the way around the first turn.
01:07:31Why?
01:07:33Do they not understand physics?
01:07:35Do they not understand geometry?
01:07:37It's not physics, it's geometry.
01:07:39I mean, why be out there losing ground
01:07:41in the three and four path when you're all by yourself?
01:07:44Why not tuck in on the rail,
01:07:46cut the corner all the way around the first turn,
01:07:48save all that ground,
01:07:50and then if you wanna rally wide on the second turn,
01:07:52go for it.
01:07:54I'm gonna pose that question to Giovanni
01:07:56when I see him next week.
01:07:58That exact question.
01:08:01I'll record it on my phone
01:08:03and I'll bring it in and we'll play it.
01:08:06We'll find out.
01:08:06Now he did have, in his defense,
01:08:08he had another horse inside of him
01:08:10for most of the first turn, right?
01:08:12But you see that all the time with riders
01:08:14who are by themselves at the back of the pack
01:08:16or no other horse around them in the middle of the pack.
01:08:18And instead of making an effort to come in a little bit
01:08:21and say, it's a length for every path you're off the rail
01:08:25that you're saving by coming in.
01:08:27And that seems to just not register sometimes.
01:08:30Okay, that's my pet fever today.
01:08:33Del Mar meet will conclude
01:08:35with the two big two-year-old races in the meet,
01:08:36the Del Mar debutant and the Del Mar Futurity.
01:08:40Bob Baffert has 28 nominated Del Mar Futurity,
01:08:43which, believe it or not,
01:08:44I think is a little less than he normally does.
01:08:46But also, I don't have the numbers off the top of my head,
01:08:50but unlike Saratoga, Del Mar, once again,
01:08:53great safety record.
01:08:55I believe there was only one.
01:08:58Zoe, I don't wanna say something I don't wanna be wrong about
01:09:01but I know that the safety record at Del Mar again
01:09:03was very, very good.
01:09:04And congratulations to them for pulling that off again.
01:09:07So we will check in and see what happens
01:09:11with the two two-year-old races at Del Mar this weekend.
01:09:15Baffert has won the Del Mar Futurity 16 times.
01:09:21He hasn't had nearly the same success
01:09:22in the Del Mar debutant.
01:09:23He's only won that one 10 times.
01:09:26Can you imagine that?
01:09:27Wow, well, he'll have Prince of Monaco two for two.
01:09:30Looks like he will be the overriding winner of that.
01:09:33And then on Saturday, the girls get to go.
01:09:36We'll see Tamara, the Beholder baby,
01:09:38who was so fabulous in her first start.
01:09:41Dreamfire, she's looking to be two for two at Del Mar.
01:09:46Several others in their chat lists.
01:09:49And I can't even read my own writing here
01:09:53but there'll be plenty in the Phillies race there.
01:09:58I'm going with Tamara.
01:10:01Okay, now, cause I stumbled around
01:10:03on those numbers from Del Mar.
01:10:05Let me make sure I've got this right now.
01:10:07This is according to Mack McBride
01:10:08who works for the Del Mar publicity office.
01:10:11He says, we have not lost a single horse from racing
01:10:13in the afternoon's dirt or turf.
01:10:14Not a single horse during the race
01:10:17was also true last year,
01:10:19though we had two horses who had raced at the turf,
01:10:21went back to their barns and had heart attacks afterwards
01:10:24because they died within 72 hours of the race.
01:10:26They were counted out as turf breakdowns.
01:10:29So once again, two straight years at Del Mar
01:10:33and knock on wood, it'll continue through the weekend.
01:10:36There has not been a single horse who died
01:10:39in the afternoon in a race.
01:10:40And as I say often about Santa Anita,
01:10:44Southern California tracks have done a terrific job
01:10:47dealing with their own issues with horse safety.
01:10:52Do want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room
01:10:54is brought to you by XBTV.
01:10:56This week's XBTV Worker of the Week
01:10:59is the Wire to Wire Alabama winner, Randomized,
01:11:02who worked a sharp half mile
01:11:04on the Saratoga main track on Saturday
01:11:06in 49.33 for trainer Chad Brown.
01:11:09Randomized ran her record to three for five
01:11:12winning the Alabama in her first graded stakes win
01:11:15back on August the 19th.
01:11:17Here's a nice bit of cross promotion for our sponsors.
01:11:20Look for the half brother to Randomized by Frosted,
01:11:23selling as hip number 1711
01:11:26at the Keeneland September sale with Hidden Brook Farms.
01:11:29We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:12:04All the thrills.
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01:12:33The TDN Writer's Room also brought to you
01:12:35by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:12:36Joining a West Point partnership
01:12:38can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:12:42And look at what happened with West Point this past weekend.
01:12:44If you watched the flower bowl at Saratoga on Saturday,
01:12:48four horse field, Parnak goes out,
01:12:50controls the pace, a glacial pace,
01:12:53and then outkick McCudalick down the stretch
01:12:56to score the upset win.
01:12:58Parnak is owned in part by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:13:04Giving West Point partners their fifth winner
01:13:06of the Saratoga meet.
01:13:08Also, they had a nice second in the grade three
01:13:10with anticipation with Carson's run.
01:13:12Both horses could be contenders
01:13:14for the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita.
01:13:16West Point now heads on to Keeneland,
01:13:17September to look for more yearlings
01:13:20like Parnak and Carson's run.
01:13:26That's a wrap on this week's show.
01:13:27Where did all our dogs go?
01:13:29In the beginning, each one of us had dogs.
01:13:31You got Doodle back there?
01:13:32Where's Lucy?
01:13:34Doodle's jet lagged.
01:13:35Okay.
01:13:36I think Lucy's napping upstairs.
01:13:38She's not underneath me.
01:13:40My wife has food up there.
01:13:41I think that's the issue.
01:13:43Okay.
01:13:44All right, anyways.
01:13:44Well, we'll get our mascots back front and center next week.
01:13:47I want to thank everybody for tuning in once again
01:13:49for this edition of the TDN Writers' Room Podcast.
01:13:52I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss, Zoe Cadman.
01:13:55I want to thank our co-producers,
01:13:57Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
01:13:59and our editors, Aliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:14:03Have a wonderful final weekend at Del Mar,
01:14:05and we'll be back at Belmont at Akluk in a couple of weeks.
01:14:08Lots of good racing coming up this fall.
01:14:10Thanks for tuning us in.
01:14:11See you again soon next week.