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00:00:00It's March 22nd at 1230.
00:00:29PM and welcome to another edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room.
00:00:34My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:35I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and also co-host of the Down the
00:00:38Stretch Show with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:41I am Randy Moss with NBC Sports here in suburban Minneapolis where we're just beginning to
00:00:49get a little bit of spring.
00:00:51Some of the 80 inches of snow that we had here this winter is beginning to melt.
00:00:55You can actually see a few blades of grass here and there.
00:00:58So ready to roll, Bill.
00:01:00Here in New Jersey, we got zero inches of snow in what was a very mild winter.
00:01:04It's a beautiful day here.
00:01:06By the way, Zoe Cadman is on assignment at the Ocala Breeder Sales.
00:01:09We'll talk with her next week.
00:01:11Randy, let's start off with what was one of the coolest stories of the weekend.
00:01:15It's been a really nice story for thoroughbred horse racing over the last couple of years.
00:01:19Wayne Lucas did it again.
00:01:21He won the Essex Handicap at Oakland Park with Last Samurai and the reason why I'm bringing
00:01:25this up is that we know the story, 87 years old, longevity, perseverance, still out there
00:01:31every single day.
00:01:33But what's different this year is that he's winning big races.
00:01:37I went back and looked at his record.
00:01:38He went four years without winning a graded stakes race between Bravazo in 2018 and Secret
00:01:45Oath last year in the Honeybee Stakes.
00:01:48So not only is he winning, but there's a renaissance of Lucas.
00:01:51I mean, he's not going to be the Lucas of the mid-80s.
00:01:54He's not going to be Todd Pletcher of 2023, but all of a sudden he's got a barn full of
00:01:59good horses.
00:02:00He's in the conversation and boy, you know, this guy just puts a smile on your face.
00:02:05He's a remarkable credit to the game and here he is again in the winner's circle and in
00:02:09the spotlight.
00:02:10It's always been curious to me, Bill, how even some of the great Hall of Fame trainers,
00:02:15as they get older, they have trouble getting horses.
00:02:18As if all the experience that they've accumulated through the years just suddenly doesn't mean
00:02:23anything.
00:02:24So it's nice to see somebody like Wayne, you know, have the success that he's had.
00:02:29Not just last Samurai with the back-to-back stakes wins, but obviously Secret Oath who
00:02:33came back for her first start as a four-year-old and looked absolutely dynamic beating Clairie
00:02:40Eyre a couple of weeks ago.
00:02:41So I did a little bit of statistical work too.
00:02:45Jerry Bailey tells me that I go down rabbit holes all the time.
00:02:49This was a pretty deep rabbit hole, Bill.
00:02:51So far, Wayne has won 1.7 million dollars this year.
00:02:56That's through March 21st.
00:02:57I was curious, when's the last time Wayne won that much money in that exact time period?
00:03:04And I went all the way back to the year 2000, 23 years ago was the last time Wayne did that.
00:03:13And so then I thought to myself, what was going on with Wayne in the year 2000?
00:03:17And so I did a little more legwork.
00:03:20And the big thing with Wayne during that time period in 2000, right?
00:03:25He was based at Santa Anita at the time.
00:03:28In mid-February, he put four horses on a plane from Santa Anita.
00:03:34He dropped off exchange rate in Shawnee country at the fairgrounds with his assistant Mike
00:03:40Maker and a plane, the Texas Sutton plane went on to Florida carrying high yield and
00:03:46Cash Run.
00:03:48On Saturday, high yield won the Fountain of Youth.
00:03:51And about a half hour later, Shawnee country upset Chalupy at 28 to 1 in a race that at
00:03:59the time at the fairgrounds was called the Devona Dale.
00:04:02Now it's called the Rachel Alexander.
00:04:05The very next day, Sunday, Cash Run wins the Devona Dale at Gulfstream Park.
00:04:11So Wayne won two Devona Dales in back-to-back days.
00:04:15And then exchange rate later on Sunday won the Risen Star Park.
00:04:20So they called it the Grand Slam in the newspapers back then, four big stakes races in two days.
00:04:26And he also had Surfside that won three graded stakes at Santa Anita during that period of
00:04:32time.
00:04:33And that was really clicking in 2000, but that's the last time that he has won this
00:04:37much money early in the year through March 21st.
00:04:41Yeah.
00:04:42I mean, a couple of points to make, I mean, he's just getting started.
00:04:45A secret off will go next in the Apple Blossom at 1 million.
00:04:48Last Samurai I assume will go next in the Oakland Handicap at 1 million.
00:04:52So this could be just a precursor of things to come.
00:04:55But you make a good point, Randy.
00:04:56I mean, this sport definitely has a built-in prejudice against trainers when they get into
00:05:00that age.
00:05:01I mean, look at Ron McAnally.
00:05:03Here's a guy, a Hall of Famer, one of the greatest trainers ever.
00:05:06He's still training and he would hardly even know it.
00:05:08He has two or three horses, he owns them himself.
00:05:10I'm sure he's very glad to be able to go out to the barn every day and have something to
00:05:14do.
00:05:15But there's another trainer, Neil Drysdale, as he gets up into that age, another Hall
00:05:20of Fame trainer who's having a really hard time getting things going or else getting
00:05:25things going back to when he was in his prime.
00:05:29And I spoke to Lucas actually before the weekend, I was talking about this.
00:05:33And he made a good point.
00:05:36I said, Wayne, what about this are you doing so well?
00:05:40And what's the difference between you now and 20, 25 years ago?
00:05:44And he made an argument that he's a better trainer now.
00:05:47Because he said this is an experience-based game.
00:05:50He said, I'm still learning today at age 87.
00:05:53And he says, I know things now that I've learned over the last 20 years that I didn't know
00:05:59in the 80s and 90s when I was dominating the sport.
00:06:03So I mean, that's my words, not his.
00:06:05He didn't say, Wayne's not that delicate to say that sort of thing.
00:06:09So his argument is that maybe I'm even better now at age 87 than I was when I was age 57.
00:06:17And as long as he's sharp mentally, which he obviously is, you could look at that and
00:06:23say, hey, maybe he's got a point here.
00:06:25Yeah, I mean, two other great examples of that were Leroy Jolly and John Veitch.
00:06:29I mean, they've dominated the 1970s to a certain extent.
00:06:33Major stakes races galore.
00:06:35John Veitch had to get out of training and become a racing official.
00:06:38You know, RIP just recently passed away.
00:06:41And the late Leroy Jolly had trouble getting any kind of decent horses.
00:06:45I remember talking to him.
00:06:47We had a race at Belmont Park for ESPN way back in the day.
00:06:52And I don't remember what the race was now or the horse.
00:06:55But Leroy Jolly surprisingly had a horse in it.
00:06:58I think it was for Loblolly Stable.
00:07:00I think he trained for them briefly.
00:07:01And so I remember going back and talking to him and, you know, he kind of looked at me
00:07:07and Jerry Bailey and said, can they vote you out of the Hall of Fame?
00:07:13That's how much trouble he was having in getting good horses back then.
00:07:16And you couldn't have any more and better experience than guys like Leroy Jolly and
00:07:20John Veitch.
00:07:21Yeah, you know, and I think Secret Oath was really something that boosted his career.
00:07:27You talk about, you know, one of the greatest trainers of all time.
00:07:29It's funny you say boosted his career, but he wasn't a lull.
00:07:32He was not, you know, a guy that any prominent owners were giving horses to.
00:07:37You know, he'd get a few decent horses here and there.
00:07:39But, you know, the big guys in the game were not supporting him at all.
00:07:43The major owners that he had in his heyday had all passed away.
00:07:47So he was having to do with, you know, kind of second string horses owned by people that
00:07:52really weren't prominent people in the business.
00:07:54I think Secret Oath, you know, reminded everybody this guy knows what he's doing.
00:07:59And it'll be interesting to see what happens going forward.
00:08:02I mean, I didn't ask Wayne this, but if I did ask him about his two year old, I'd get
00:08:06the same answer that I've gotten for the last 35 straight years.
00:08:09I've never had a better bunch of two year olds in my life.
00:08:11Wait till you see these horses at the racetrack.
00:08:14But it'll be interesting to see, you know, going forward and, you know, people buying
00:08:18yearlings now are trusting that Lucas, when he saw he's 89, would be 89 when they're
00:08:25three year olds. Can he get it done at 89?
00:08:28Can he get it done at 90 when they were four year olds?
00:08:31I mean, honestly, Randy, I don't see any reason why not.
00:08:33Yeah. And he's clicking on all cylinders right now, Bill.
00:08:37Mark your calendars for the April Selected Horses of Racing Age Sale on Sunday, April
00:08:4230th, kicking off Derby Week in the Bluegrass.
00:08:44Entry deadline for print catalogs is April 3rd.
00:08:47Approved supplements will be accepted until sale date.
00:08:50We'll be right back after this message from Kima.
00:08:56If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:09:02It would say this is racing, this beating heart in the heart of horse country.
00:09:10Steady and strong beneath the roar, reminding us why, for the love of the horse, for
00:09:19generations to come.
00:09:23He was just put together like a machine and he had a great mind.
00:09:26Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:09:28Tis the law, pops the cork and the champagne.
00:09:31Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the Triple Crown.
00:09:35I've never seen him get tired.
00:09:37Respect the law.
00:09:38Tis the law.
00:09:39His structure is just perfect.
00:09:42His bone is perfect.
00:09:43He's left the others behind.
00:09:45He's going to win the Run Happy Travers.
00:09:47He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:09:53The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:09:56Coolmore stallion Uncle Mo continues his hot streak this week with a new TDN Rising Star.
00:10:01Bishop Bay earned his honors in his second start, winning a fairgrounds allowance.
00:10:05This is the second Rising Star this month for Uncle Mo in his 14th.
00:10:09Overall, but he's not the only hot sire at Coolmore.
00:10:12Munnings, who had a one million dollar filly at the OBS March sale on Wednesday and picked up
00:10:17back-to-back stakes winners on Saturday at Laurel with Nimitz Class and Lady Lowry.
00:10:22Munnings now has five stakes winners in 2023.
00:10:24Only Into Mischief and Uncle Mo have more stakes winners.
00:10:27And it ties him for third among all North American sires.
00:10:31The Jockey Club released its annual report from the Equine Injury Database earlier this
00:10:36week. Once again, some very good news here.
00:10:39We want the number to be zero, but it's not going to be.
00:10:42So we take the lowest number that we can get.
00:10:44And it was this year, 1.25 fatalities per 1000 starts.
00:10:50Now, to put that in perspective, that's a 10.1 percent decrease from last year.
00:10:55But even more pertinent, I think, Randy, is that when this started in 2009, the number was
00:11:012.0. That's a 37 percent decrease in the 14 years.
00:11:06They've been keeping these records.
00:11:08And again, you know, this is one of those areas where we like to fault racing when racing
00:11:12deserves fault. This is one of those areas where the sport is really getting its act
00:11:17together. These numbers go down every single year, and I think they're going to continue
00:11:21to go down. Promising news out of this.
00:11:23Yeah, as is usually the case, synthetic is at the very bottom as the safest surface and
00:11:29then turf and then dirt.
00:11:32But the dirt, notably the dirt rate, the dirt fatality rate has dropped significantly
00:11:37from what it was, as you mentioned, you know, way back when.
00:11:41There's probably a lot of factors involved in that.
00:11:43But I think most important, we went through a pretty rough time in the mid 2000s.
00:11:50First of all, there was the Barbaro injury in 2006 that it did garner a lot of sympathy
00:11:57from sports fans in general because of the way the ownership of Barbaro felt about the
00:12:02horse and the efforts that were made to save him.
00:12:05But it still spotlighted a major injury at the highest level of the sport.
00:12:12And then two years later, what happened to eight bells during the Kentucky Derby,
00:12:17immediately after the Kentucky Derby, really, really resonated with a lot of non sports
00:12:23fans. I remember being called to testify before the U.S.
00:12:26House of Representatives in the subcommittee.
00:12:28I mean, the sport could not have been at a lower ebb at that point.
00:12:34And then the Santa Anita injuries that happened, the injury outbreak that happened not all
00:12:40that long ago. So I think what that has done is even with maybe some people within the
00:12:47sport who were slow to embrace a major change and a major initiative for horse safety, I
00:12:54think those were real wake up calls coming in succession.
00:12:57And I think now you're getting a lot more cooperation and a lot more understanding from
00:13:03people throughout the sport that this is a big, big deal.
00:13:06I mean, this is actually threatening the very existence of the sport of thoroughbred
00:13:11racing. If nothing was done about it, there's been a great emphasis, especially in
00:13:17Southern California, but elsewhere, too, on improved pre-race veterinary examinations.
00:13:25There's been medication overhauls that are continuing right now with HISA.
00:13:30There's been a huge initiative underway to improve the safety of dirt racing surfaces
00:13:36that horses run over. And I think the more we've learned about how to take care of
00:13:41those surfaces and make them safer, the better.
00:13:44So it's just a whole mixture of things, I think, Bill, that have gone into these numbers.
00:13:48And like you say, you're never going to do away with them completely.
00:13:51Catastrophic injuries.
00:13:53Every time we have a show on ESPN, on NBC, we hold our breath until it's over.
00:14:02But it is going in the right direction.
00:14:04And it's fantastic news that these numbers are continuing to drop.
00:14:09Yeah, a couple other numbers from the study.
00:14:11Synthetic, as you mentioned, was the safest, 0.41.
00:14:14Turf was next at 0.99 and dirt at 1.44.
00:14:19They broke it down into the distances of races, races that were eight furlongs or more,
00:14:240.86, from six to eight furlongs, 1.31, and less than six furlongs, 1.38.
00:14:31Another interesting thing I always find, you know, the animal rights people often make
00:14:36the argument that you shouldn't race two year olds, that it's dangerous to race and
00:14:40they're not fully developed.
00:14:41The numbers every year are counter argument to that.
00:14:45It flies right in the face of it.
00:14:47The safest racing was two year old racing at 0.98, for three year olds, 1.13, and then
00:14:53four year olds and up, 1.34.
00:14:57Randy, I also want to get into California and what you said.
00:14:59And, you know, the two major California racetracks, San Diego and Del Mar, are really
00:15:04at the forefront of this.
00:15:06And, you know, you mentioned, you know, just the crisis that happened at San Anita.
00:15:11So in 2019, that awful year where so many horses broke down and, you know, the animal
00:15:17rights activists and the media and some politicians were just breathing down Sandy's
00:15:20neck. I mean, we were actually wondering if racing was going to be barred in California
00:15:25because of that. So that number was 3.01 in 2019.
00:15:30Wow.
00:15:30It's down 0.63, well below the national average at San Anita.
00:15:36Now, Del Mar's worst problems happened in 2016 when the number was 3.01, it was down
00:15:43to 0.56 in 2022.
00:15:48So, you know, kudos to San Anita and Del Mar.
00:15:51And, you know, I think those are maybe good numbers for the rest of the industry to
00:15:54shoot for. You can do 0.63 and 0.56 at Del Mar, very comparable numbers.
00:16:00Can we do that throughout the industry?
00:16:02But, you know, hats off to California.
00:16:03They've really got a grasp of things out there and are getting things done.
00:16:08Yeah. I mean, I've got some some very good friends that work in upper management at San
00:16:12Anita. And I can tell you, I mean, I know you know, Bill, I'll tell everybody.
00:16:17I mean, almost every decision they make, there is a horse safety component to it now.
00:16:25You cannot have horse safety any higher in the forefront of the minds of track managers
00:16:33than you have right now at San Anita.
00:16:34And I assume it's the same at Del Mar.
00:16:37And so I think that's largely behind that plummeting of numbers that you see at San
00:16:44Anita and Southern California in general.
00:16:46And it's something that the rest of the country can shoot for.
00:16:49But progress is being made, I think, across the board.
00:16:52And that's a very good thing.
00:16:54Yeah, as you mentioned, they canceled.
00:16:57I didn't remember they announced it today.
00:16:58They've canceled racing for Friday at San Anita.
00:17:01I mean, they get any kind of rain.
00:17:02They don't run. But also, Randy, the thing that they've done, I think, that has
00:17:07contributed so much is these veterinary checks that they do.
00:17:11And, you know, I was writing a story in 2022.
00:17:14I believe we talked about this on the show that there were not one single fatality in a
00:17:18dirt race at San Anita of a breakdown.
00:17:22There was a heart attack or something like that.
00:17:25And, you know, everybody said the reason why is because we go over these horses with a
00:17:30fine tooth comb.
00:17:32And if there's anything wrong with them, they are not allowed to run.
00:17:37Now, I realize some of the smaller tracks don't have the resources that San Anita has,
00:17:42the money to afford all these veterinarians or whatnot.
00:17:45But, you know, I think that all of racing needs to take a look at this.
00:17:49You know, do we need to have the same sort of, you know, should X, Y, Z downs be doing
00:17:56what San Anita and Delmar and Delmar is doing?
00:18:00And again, maybe there is a cost aspect of it.
00:18:02But, you know, they have provided a blueprint for what to do here to keep racing as safe
00:18:08as possible. And I wish other tracks, more tracks would follow it.
00:18:11Yeah. Would you ever have imagined a racetrack 25 years ago canceling a car days in
00:18:19advance because of a forecast of two to three inches of rain?
00:18:23No, no, it was never even considered.
00:18:26Right. Even in Southern California, which hardly ever gets rain like that until the
00:18:30last couple of years, you would never have even never have even thought about it.
00:18:35Right. And it doesn't it, you know, it's come with a price.
00:18:39The field sizes at San Anita are smaller now than they used to be.
00:18:43And that obviously has to have an impact on the handle.
00:18:47But as as part of that, I mean, we see this phenomenon.
00:18:51We've seen it in the past at racetracks.
00:18:53It's it's been going on as long as racing secretaries have been riding races.
00:18:58If you have a race that comes up, let's say an allowance race that comes up with four
00:19:03horses and a racing secretary really wants to card the race, they will do what is
00:19:10called hustling other horsemen to run horses in the race to fill it to a level at
00:19:15which they can actually be carded.
00:19:17So in the past, racing secretaries at San Anita, like everywhere else, would call
00:19:22trainers and say, hey, you know, what are you doing with such and such a horse?
00:19:25Can you help us out and run them in this allowance race?
00:19:27And the horse may or may not have been physically 100 percent ready to run in that
00:19:34race. But the trainers may have felt pressured because they have to ask the same
00:19:39racing secretaries for stall space the next year.
00:19:42So they feel pressured to cooperate as much as they can.
00:19:46And so to a certain extent, that was putting that practice has put some horses at
00:19:51risk running when they otherwise would not have been running and maybe weren't ready
00:19:55to run. They don't do that anymore at San Anita.
00:19:59And I think it's it's happened less and less often at other racetracks around the
00:20:03country as well. So as we said, a lot of things have gone into this.
00:20:06But hey, hats off to to racetrack managers around the country who are putting horse
00:20:13safety at the forefront of the decisions that they make.
00:20:16It'll be interesting to see what the effect of Hyza is now.
00:20:19I mean, we talk about Hyza and we have Lisa Lazarus on in just a bit as our Green
00:20:23Group guest of the week about the integrity issues.
00:20:25But let's not forget, you know, they are tackling issues of racetrack safety as well.
00:20:31Matter of fact, there's a story that broke yesterday that they are and she talks a
00:20:34little bit about this, that they are threatening to cut off Turf Paradise's right to
00:20:39send their signal out because they're not satisfied with some safety aspects at Turf
00:20:45Paradise. That's not to pick on just Turf Paradise.
00:20:48I'm sure there are other tracks that are having issues, but they basically said you
00:20:52fix this or else.
00:20:54And that's not a component we've had in horse racing up until now.
00:20:58So with Hyza being responsible for so much of these safety issues in 2023, can we get
00:21:04that number down again?
00:21:05I bet you we will. Speaking of Santa Anita, how about Zoe Cadman?
00:21:10Once again, she caught up with all things Santa Anita on First Things First.
00:21:14She's going to talk about what's going on at the Noble Threewitt Health Center.
00:21:17Here's First Things First.
00:21:22I'm here at Santa Anita Park's best kept secret.
00:21:25This is the Noble Threewitt Health Center right behind me.
00:21:30All you need is one of these, which is a track license.
00:21:33They serve over 4,000 patients each and every year.
00:21:37Dental, doctor and vision.
00:21:40I'm going to go in, find out a little bit more and get my choppers cleaned.
00:21:44Come on. I have a 1030.
00:21:49So this is Cliff and he runs the Backstretch Center here.
00:21:52Tell me a little bit about what you do here and about Noble Threewitt.
00:21:57Well, Noble Threewitt, you see his pictures all over the wall, photos from all his
00:22:02winters. He was really one of the founders of this clinic.
00:22:06This goes back to the early 90s.
00:22:09Joe McAnally, Noble Threewitt, Dr.
00:22:13Matz. It started as a little dental clinic over where the Winters Foundation
00:22:17now is and expanded about 1995 into this building where we
00:22:22sit. We see probably we have about 6,000 patient visits
00:22:27a year at our three clinics.
00:22:29This is by far the largest one.
00:22:32We do about three quarters of the business here at Santa Anita, and there
00:22:36isn't a day goes by where we don't have people sitting in the lobby waiting to be
00:22:40served. To see a doctor costs them $5.
00:22:44Obviously, if they go out on the outside and see a doctor, the market is probably
00:22:48$100 to see a doctor.
00:22:51Just like that, no fillings and nice, clean
00:22:54teeth. Thank you, Noble.
00:23:01Join us this weekend for Santa Anita Fried Chicken Day.
00:23:05Going to be finger licking good at Santa Anita.
00:23:08And don't forget, if you like the spring carnival, it's the best time of the year.
00:23:12So if you're a fan of the carnival, you're going to love this place.
00:23:15So it's finger licking good at Santa Anita.
00:23:18And don't forget, if you like the spring carnival, April 1st, 2nd and April
00:23:238th and 9th is Santa Anita Spring Carnival, as well as the Grade
00:23:271 Santa Anita Derby on April 8th.
00:23:31And if you feel like running, we have the Santa Anita Derby Day 5k as well.
00:23:37So this doesn't involve fried chicken, but it's good news nonetheless.
00:23:41The TDN Writer's Room brought to you as always by the PHBA.
00:23:45The horses already nominated for their 2023 2-year-old PA Sired PA
00:23:49Bred Stallion Series are now live on the PHBA website.
00:23:53But it's not too late to nominate your 2-year-olds to that series.
00:23:57In fact, if you do so before March 31st, the nomination fee is only $500.
00:24:02If you wait after that, it goes up to $1,000 for new owners
00:24:06who purchased a 2-year-old at public auction or at a private sale.
00:24:10Now's the time to learn more.
00:24:12Visit pabred.com for additional information.
00:24:16Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program,
00:24:19the best in North America, but we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:24:24The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting edge research at PenVet
00:24:28to detect gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:24:31And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:24:35Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our
00:24:39horseman's groups. Just a few of the reasons why you should join us
00:24:42in Pennsylvania, the premier place to breed and race.
00:24:49What makes Woodford special is the attention to detail.
00:24:53Everyone on the team is doing their job.
00:24:56They're well qualified.
00:24:57They show up to work and they work hard and they care about the horse.
00:25:01And I think that's a reflection on John Gleason's program.
00:25:06He gives me good information.
00:25:08He always has a very good understanding of the horse's
00:25:12well-being, where they're at physically and mentally.
00:25:16In equine nutrition, there's a triangle, management, genetics and nutrition.
00:25:21And John's criteria to accomplish that is at the highest pinnacle.
00:25:28I started breaking quarter horses for people when I was 15.
00:25:32You know, people send me quarter horses to break and that's all I've done.
00:25:35You know, I don't hunt, I don't fish.
00:25:36I focus on training the horse.
00:25:38I think about training horses on eating dinner and laying in bed
00:25:41before you go to sleep.
00:25:42And if you roll over in the middle of the night, I think about a horse.
00:25:45And it's, you know, it's all consuming.
00:25:46I think to be successful, it has to be.
00:25:51The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Woodford Thoroughbreds.
00:25:54Discover the Woodford Edge, a 1,000 acre world class facility in Reddick, Florida,
00:25:59breeding and selling their own stock, as well as offering breaking
00:26:02and training services to outside clients.
00:26:04Setting up to be a big spring for Woodford, two aspiring classic
00:26:07hopefuls that they trained will make their next starts this Saturday
00:26:10at Fairgrounds, when Hoosier Philly targets the Fairgrounds Oaks
00:26:13and Curly Jacks sets the sights on the Louisiana Derby.
00:26:16Meanwhile, two three year olds that they bred are also eyeing their next move.
00:26:19Keep an eye on Mimi Kizushi, see what she's up to.
00:26:22Or Rocket Kan breezed a bullet at Payson on Friday
00:26:25on his way to either the Florida Derby or the Bluegrass.
00:26:29And now it's time for the fastest horse of the week,
00:26:31brought to you by the fast stallions at Windstar Farm,
00:26:35such as the stallion that Elliott Walden once said was one of the fastest
00:26:39horses he ever had.
00:26:41Which stallion was that?
00:26:43First, the fastest horse of the week.
00:26:45And for the second straight week, that horse comes from Laurel Park.
00:26:48And last Saturday's Harrison E.
00:26:50Johnson Memorial, Nimitz Class sailed to a six and a half length victory
00:26:56and earned a 103 buyer's speed figure in the process.
00:26:59It was the third straight stakes win at Laurel and the second straight
00:27:02triple digit buyer for the four year old son of Munnings,
00:27:05owned and bred by Tom Poulter.
00:27:07Nimitz Class was such a troublemaker as a youngster
00:27:11that the farm nicknamed him Bad Chad.
00:27:15But now he has straightened out to the tune of eight wins
00:27:18from 14 lifetime starts.
00:27:19A TDN podcast salute to our fastest horse of the week, Nimitz Class.
00:27:25Now, what about that fast sire at Windstar?
00:27:29As a three year old in 2020, Nashville blew up the charts
00:27:32with a bullet by winning his first three starts by a combined
00:27:3624 and three quarters lengths, the third of which was the Perryville
00:27:40six on the Breeders' Cup undercard, in which he set a Keeneland
00:27:43track record for six furlongs, 107.89.
00:27:47That still stands.
00:27:49Not only does it still stand, it would have won the last two Breeders'
00:27:53Cup sprints by a wide margin.
00:27:56If speed is key, then Nashville has plenty to share.
00:28:00And he enters his first season at stud at Windstar for a fee of $15,000.
00:28:09The Green Group is an accounting and tax
00:28:10consulting advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry
00:28:13with over 500 clients in the horse business and proven strategies
00:28:17to save you taxes.
00:28:18You can learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:28:23And welcome in now this week's Green Group guest of the week,
00:28:25Lisa Lazarus, the CEO of the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Authority.
00:28:30Always good to talk to Lisa, but never more important than right now,
00:28:34because on Monday, a seismic change in horse racing.
00:28:38The HESA will take over under the Horse Racing Integrity and Welfare Unit.
00:28:43Basically the kit and caboodle when it comes to drug testing,
00:28:46penalties for drugs, et cetera.
00:28:48So we're going to have a new era in horse racing starting Monday.
00:28:52Lisa, welcome.
00:28:53I'm going to get right to the question I think is foremost on everybody's mind.
00:28:57How will this system be better at catching the cheaters than the old system?
00:29:03So, Bill, I think there's a number of reasons.
00:29:06Probably the biggest one is that our test distribution plan
00:29:12is going to be investigations and intelligence led.
00:29:16We are not going to be relying primarily on post race testing
00:29:20in order to discern who actually is breaking the rules.
00:29:24We've got a very robust investigative team headed by Sean Richards,
00:29:29who was the FBI agent who actually was the one who worked up all the evidence
00:29:32in the prosecutions in the Southern District involving Navarro and Service, et cetera.
00:29:38And so we really are focusing on the intelligence.
00:29:43I think the other reason is lab harmonization,
00:29:46which means that the labs that are going to be part of our program
00:29:49are working together to test for the same panels of substances at the same levels.
00:29:54I think those are probably the two biggest game changers.
00:29:57So, Lisa, we've been trying to keep up with all this, of course,
00:30:00over the last few months, and you almost have to have a law degree
00:30:03to sort out exactly what's going on from week to week to week.
00:30:07Can you give us an update on what the legal challenges are at this point?
00:30:12And is there any chance that the Monday, March 27th rollout could be delayed?
00:30:19So I'll start with the last question, which is, no, I don't think there's any chance.
00:30:23There's no pending legal action that could be resolved prior to or even on Monday.
00:30:30Everything that's sort of pending that was filed to stop the ATMC program
00:30:35from going into effect has been given a kind of later or delayed scheduling order.
00:30:40In terms of the pending lawsuits, I'm sure you know that the Sixth Circuit ruled
00:30:46that HISA was constitutional about a few weeks ago.
00:30:48That was the only court to rule on what I'll call the new law,
00:30:52you know, the HISA statute post the legislative amendment.
00:30:56We still have the Fifth Circuit case that has been remanded back to the district court
00:31:00sort of going through the process.
00:31:02But that's really and we still have the injunctions in Louisiana and West Virginia.
00:31:05So this program will not roll out on Monday in Louisiana and West Virginia
00:31:10because of those injunctions.
00:31:13Now, Lisa, we know these things don't happen quickly overnight,
00:31:15but just in general, maybe for pick a time frame, the first year,
00:31:19let's say if we're talking March 27, 2024, what are your expectations for this program?
00:31:24What are your goals for this program?
00:31:26And do you think you're going to catch a lot of, quote unquote, bad guys?
00:31:29So I think I'll start with my goal.
00:31:31My goal, probably my biggest goal is for the industry to recognize
00:31:35this is actually a very positive step forward.
00:31:39You know, right now there's a lot of like distrust.
00:31:41There's a lot of trepidation.
00:31:42Folks are anxious, which I completely understand.
00:31:45For me, what I expect will happen, but also what's one of my probably my biggest goal
00:31:49is that once we've been operating for a while, horsemen will look around and say,
00:31:53you know what, like this is what we really needed.
00:31:55We needed uniform rules.
00:31:56We needed sort of one central body to take this over.
00:31:59And this actually is better because I don't want to have to worry
00:32:02that the guy I'm competing against isn't, you know, isn't isn't competing fairly.
00:32:06And that's obviously every every athlete, every sportsman, every horseman,
00:32:10I think deserves to be able to compete in a level playing field.
00:32:13And I think that's what we're going to get.
00:32:16You know, sort of a recognition is really happening.
00:32:18Also, professionalization.
00:32:19You know, on day one, you're going to see the test collectors
00:32:22walk into the test barn with iPads.
00:32:24You know, we're going to have a paperless collection system
00:32:26that's sort of robust, that's reliable.
00:32:29And also, you know, I think we'll have a lot more transparency.
00:32:32And so folks will realize they can kind of watch and see how the program folds out.
00:32:36So that's the first thing in terms of check catching cheaters.
00:32:40You know, I have to say, and I say a lot of time, I'm agnostic
00:32:43on whether or not there are a lot of cheaters in horse racing,
00:32:46because my you know, it's not my my role to make judgments about that.
00:32:49What I can say is that I believe we have the best program
00:32:55in place to catch them if they're out there. I really do.
00:32:58So you mentioned the trepidation by some people, I think some owners and trainers.
00:33:02Part of it, I suppose, is fear of the unknown, fear of something new.
00:33:06But I know there's a concern.
00:33:08Is something going to happen that will keep me from being able to run
00:33:12my horse. So what are the can't run flags
00:33:17or the various circumstances that could prevent an owner or trainer
00:33:21from running a horse?
00:33:23So the can't race flags are totally different from the anti-doping program.
00:33:27As I'm sure you know, Randy, we launched the Haiza in July of last year, 2022.
00:33:32And at that point, it was required that every trainer,
00:33:37owner, jockey horse be registered with Haiza.
00:33:41And because it's taken some time for us to get, you know,
00:33:44fully 100 percent operational on the portal on the IT side,
00:33:48we didn't want to heavily sanction folks in the beginning
00:33:52as we were sort of making sure we were running properly.
00:33:54And we also didn't want to sort of interfere with racing.
00:33:57And so to the extent that folks weren't registered,
00:33:59we took enforcement actions against them post-race and dealt with it that way.
00:34:03Starting March 27, starting Monday, if you are not registered with Haiza,
00:34:08you will not be able to actually enter into a race.
00:34:11You'll be stopped at the entry box.
00:34:12And that's definitely a change.
00:34:15We felt confident in that because we've been working really hard to make sure
00:34:18that we have very few unregistered folks.
00:34:21And those who are unregistered are actually sort of intentionally not registering.
00:34:25And then obviously we need to take action there.
00:34:28The other couple of things that could potentially stop you from racing
00:34:30is if you're a jockey, you have to have your concussion baseline
00:34:33and your medical, your annual medical exam.
00:34:37Not the exams themselves, but you have to have the dates
00:34:39that they were that they were actually taken in the system.
00:34:43And that's a requirement.
00:34:44That's a health and safety issue.
00:34:45And we're working really hard with all the jockey reps to make sure
00:34:48that's that's kind of done and ready by Monday.
00:34:51And I think I'm not I'm not that concerned that we're going to have any outliers.
00:34:54I think everybody will be resolved by then.
00:34:56Lisa, I think one thing that also horsemen will come to like
00:34:59is the idea that you're really differentiating between the drugs
00:35:03that are performance enhancing and the drugs that are medication overages
00:35:07and also are going to put drugs that are medications
00:35:11that you believe are the result of environmental contamination
00:35:14into still another category where perhaps depending on the circumstances,
00:35:18somebody wouldn't even be penalized for that.
00:35:20Could you explain how all this is going to work?
00:35:23And the the idea behind this, that let's go after the things
00:35:27that are really making these horses improving their performance
00:35:29rather than mistakes that trainers might make with overages
00:35:33that are really not intended to, quote unquote, dope a horse.
00:35:37Sure. So I came to this job with actually like a lot of experience
00:35:40in running equine antidoping programs and sport horses.
00:35:44And my kind of cumulative experience there was a good program
00:35:48gets rid of cheaters, deals with mismanagement and lack of professionalism
00:35:52in a kind of balanced, appropriate way, but doesn't penalize actors
00:35:58in the system for things they can't control.
00:36:00So those are the kind of the three prongs for me.
00:36:03I mean, that's what you really need, I think, to have a fair, robust
00:36:07kind of helpful antidoping program.
00:36:09So one of the things that we don't get enough kind of recognition for
00:36:13because this doesn't exist anywhere else in horse racing, to my knowledge,
00:36:17is that we completely separated the rulebook into two categories,
00:36:20which you've just referenced, the bad substances, which are the doping
00:36:23substances versus the controlled medications, which are the therapeutics.
00:36:26And we take a very different philosophical approach to those two categories.
00:36:31If you have a bad substance in a horse, which is a performance
00:36:34enhancement should never be in a horse.
00:36:36The penalties are severe.
00:36:37They're severe. They're swift.
00:36:39And they will be game changing.
00:36:41If you make a mistake or if you have a therapeutic overage,
00:36:44you know, there'll be consequences, but they'll be proportionate to the
00:36:48to the violation.
00:36:49And the other thing which I think is so important is that we have a policy
00:36:53called the atypical findings policy, which basically has 27 different
00:36:58substances that if they're detected in a horse's system,
00:37:01we know it's almost certain to be to be contamination.
00:37:04It's far more likely than not to be contamination.
00:37:06And those go through a different process.
00:37:08And if I was satisfied after looking at those a little bit more deeply,
00:37:11that it really is contamination.
00:37:13There's no loss of purse.
00:37:15There's no sanction. It's like it never happened.
00:37:17And that is, I think, a really important policy and one that,
00:37:21you know, we don't get enough credit for, I think, at Heisei
00:37:23because I still hear so many like there's picograms of contamination.
00:37:27And we've been thoughtful about these things.
00:37:29And I think that the program, you know, strikes the right balance.
00:37:32So a follow up question for me on sort of on the same topic.
00:37:36One thing that also has frustrated people in racing is a trainer gets caught
00:37:39with something and they they lawyer up.
00:37:42They appeal. They lose their appeal to the Racing Commission.
00:37:45They go to courts.
00:37:46You might have a situation where somebody is caught with a substance
00:37:50and they're still training and still active in the sport two years later.
00:37:54Is that going to change? And how so?
00:37:56Yes, very significantly.
00:37:57So specifically on the banned substance aside,
00:38:00the minute you have a positive a sample for a banned substance,
00:38:03you're suspended and your horse is suspended.
00:38:05They're called provisional suspensions.
00:38:07And then you have an opportunity if there's if there's something
00:38:10really compelling that you think would change the mind of the regulator.
00:38:14If they knew you have the chance to have a provisional suspension hearing,
00:38:18you know, within 48 hours or almost as soon as you want
00:38:21to present any of that compelling evidence.
00:38:23And if there's a really good reason, of course, it can be lifted.
00:38:26But what's important about that is it changes.
00:38:28It changes the burden. Right.
00:38:29So suddenly the trainer becomes interested in things happening quickly
00:38:35because he or she is suspended during the pendency of the hearing.
00:38:38It doesn't motivate delay.
00:38:40You know, and that, I think, is one of the biggest problems
00:38:41in the current system, is that anybody who's who's charged
00:38:44with a violation is incentivized to delay because the longer they delay,
00:38:48they can keep running.
00:38:49And the new program completely shifts that.
00:38:52So I've got a couple more questions here.
00:38:54First of all, we saw famously a few years ago,
00:38:58Churchill Downs on its own decided to have a zero tolerance rule
00:39:03for the Kentucky Derby.
00:39:04And of course, Medina Spirit tests positive for a very small amount
00:39:08of beta methadone.
00:39:09Can a racetrack like Churchill Downs, a race like the Kentucky Derby,
00:39:13make their own rules?
00:39:15Or does everything now fall under the HISA umbrella?
00:39:19And would Medina Spirit test positive
00:39:24in the, you know, in the new HISA rules?
00:39:27So I don't I'm not sure that I know about their zero tolerance policy
00:39:30or what exactly the levels were for the beta methadone.
00:39:33So I can't speak to that.
00:39:34What I can say is that HISA is the standard.
00:39:38It's not a minimum standard.
00:39:40So and for the anti-doping program, HISA takes the whole space.
00:39:44So we take everything from, you know, test distribution,
00:39:47planning, selection, all the way through to prosecutions.
00:39:49So you can't have a rule in the anti-doping space and horse racing
00:39:54post March 27th.
00:39:56That's different from HISA's rule.
00:39:59And the other question, I know horsemen are concerned about
00:40:02bisphosphonate use.
00:40:05In 2014, the FDA approved two bisphosphonates for use in
00:40:09in mature racehorses, four year olds and up.
00:40:14They're primarily used for foot issues for navicular syndrome
00:40:18or navicular disease.
00:40:20And according to the National Library of Medicine,
00:40:23bisphosphonates can bind to a skeleton for several years
00:40:28with a residual prolonged effect and no pharmaceutical reversal available.
00:40:34You correct me if I'm wrong, bisphosphonates will be banned
00:40:37in a horse's system beginning on Monday.
00:40:40How will the possible residual effect in racehorses be addressed?
00:40:45Sure. So we issued a number of communications on this.
00:40:49And just to be really clear,
00:40:51HISA cannot sanction anything that took place prior to our effective date.
00:40:57So assuming that's going to be going to be Monday, March 27th,
00:41:00any administration pre-March 27th does not disqualify a horse
00:41:04and is not a violation.
00:41:06So one is we've asked horsemen, if you have records,
00:41:10if you have proof that your horse was treated by bisphosphonates before March 27,
00:41:14you know, please hold on to that.
00:41:15That obviously will make it easier for us to determine whether or not
00:41:18this is a post-March 27th administration.
00:41:21But but even if those don't exist, we will do a scientific analysis
00:41:24and review of each bisphosphonates positive.
00:41:28And only if we're convinced that it was a post-March 27th administration
00:41:32would we take that case forward.
00:41:35Lisa, let me segue to the other very important part of HISA, which is safety.
00:41:40And this week we got some very good numbers from the equine injury database
00:41:46shows that the sport is definitely heading in the right direction
00:41:48so far when it comes to safety and breakdowns.
00:41:51But there are some tracks where, you know, there are some problems,
00:41:55in particular, Turf Paradise, which has had some safety issues,
00:41:59a lot of breakdowns, et cetera.
00:42:01What is going to be the are you going to bring the heat down further on them?
00:42:05And if you're not satisfied and as such, is that any racetrack
00:42:09where you're not satisfied that they're doing what needs to be done for safety?
00:42:13What would be the ramifications?
00:42:15Yeah. So one is we started our racetrack accreditation process
00:42:19or program just this past weekend with Tempe down to the first track.
00:42:23We have ongoing dialogue with the racetracks.
00:42:26And, you know, it took us a little bit of time to get that program together
00:42:30and to roll it out.
00:42:31But now it's a it's a primary focus of HIZA.
00:42:35You know, with Turf Paradise, there's actually going to be an order
00:42:38uploaded to our ruling system today where you'll see that the board has held them
00:42:43to a very specific defined requirements around repairs of the track.
00:42:47And if they don't if they don't live up to the obligations,
00:42:51they will no longer be able to run covered horse races starting April 1st.
00:42:56They have a short time window in which you get some very important safety
00:43:00safety violations or at least safety concerns resolved.
00:43:03And that's the approach we're going to take with anyone who's similarly situated.
00:43:06You know, the safety of horses and the jockeys who are on their backs
00:43:10is, you know, one of HIZA's greatest obligations and responsibilities.
00:43:15And we take it very seriously and there will be very serious repercussions.
00:43:18And those repercussions can run from obviously a fine to a,
00:43:22you know, required time frame to make changes all the way up
00:43:25to not being able to run covered horse races.
00:43:27Are you expecting to see smaller racetracks, other smaller racetracks
00:43:31with limited means struggle to comply with HIZA regulations?
00:43:35No, I really don't.
00:43:36Unless I mean, there's there's two there's two situations that we face, right?
00:43:40We face sometimes the race tractor commissions
00:43:43that just philosophically don't like HIZA and they're like,
00:43:46we don't like federal regulation.
00:43:47We don't think you belong here.
00:43:49And, you know, I can't do anything with that. I didn't make the law.
00:43:51I didn't you know, I'm just here to kind of run things right.
00:43:53So if I can't convince folks
00:43:56that that it's worthwhile to kind of work with us, then then that is what it is.
00:44:01But on the side where you're talking about smaller racetracks
00:44:04who actually really care about safety, and there are a lot of those,
00:44:07you know, we work with them.
00:44:08We have ways to kind of be efficient around around their costs.
00:44:13We have ways to work with payment plans.
00:44:15We have ways to kind of work with the commissions.
00:44:17So if you're willing to to try to reach the goals
00:44:21that we feel like you need to reach,
00:44:23we will find a way forward.
00:44:24There's not a single racetrack that said, I want to work with you.
00:44:27I want to do this.
00:44:27It doesn't have enough money right now that we've said, OK, we can't.
00:44:30You know, we're going to we're going to hold you accountable.
00:44:33At least on that same sort of subject from the beginning of this,
00:44:36there's been a lot of talk about how how is this going to be paid for?
00:44:38And there's different avenues.
00:44:42The first hope is, I guess, that the racing commissions will pay for it.
00:44:47But are we going to see the talk of start fees?
00:44:51Is that going to start happening anywhere?
00:44:53If so, what places might they happen and what might be the amount
00:44:57that the owner would have to pay
00:45:00so far as to start fee to comply with Issa?
00:45:03So I don't really I can't really answer that question
00:45:05because that is something that I think is sort of unresolved still
00:45:08for a lot of the commissions, the racetracks.
00:45:09That's their call, how they choose to raise the money to pay for Heiser.
00:45:13You know, there's a lot of there's a lot of things happening right now
00:45:17in various states, like, for example, there's a couple of states
00:45:20that have gone to their state governments and actually passed
00:45:23passed laws, passed resolutions where they've been able to get the funding
00:45:27out of maybe a casino or some other resource that wasn't previously there.
00:45:31We have, you know, for the most part, we have, you know,
00:45:35coming out of racetracks and purse funds.
00:45:37And typically it's a facility in the racetracks and the horsemen.
00:45:41I haven't seen very many starter fees.
00:45:43I can't say that they won't happen, but I'm not aware of any at this point in time.
00:45:48Are you getting any sleep?
00:45:51Not a lot of sleep.
00:45:53Definitely not a lot of sleep.
00:45:55But that's OK, because I am, like, incredibly excited.
00:45:58And I if there's things to still get done, I want to make sure we get them done.
00:46:03So I've got one more for you, Lisa, and it won't be nearly as clever as
00:46:06Manny's last question. I apologize for that.
00:46:08But from covering this, it's been so difficult because you need a law degree.
00:46:12Now, you mentioned earlier the Fifth Circuit, Sixth Circuit.
00:46:16The Fifth Circuit did not rule in favor of Heise.
00:46:19The Sixth Circuit did.
00:46:20Correct. Fifth Circuit includes two states that have race in Louisiana and Texas.
00:46:25Does that mean Heise is now not in effect,
00:46:28will not be in effect on March 27th in those two states?
00:46:32And if that is the case, what does that mean going forward?
00:46:35So no mandate ever issued in that case.
00:46:38So there's no actual operational effect to the Constitution.
00:46:41In fact, to the constitutionality case in the Fifth Circuit,
00:46:45Louisiana and West Virginia are subject to an injunction.
00:46:49So we're not operating in those states.
00:46:50But that's that wasn't the constitutionality case.
00:46:53That was the Administrative Procedures Act case, which I know is really confusing
00:46:57and just sort of emphasizes your point about having a meeting, a law degree.
00:47:00But the short, short, the short answer is we're not operating in Louisiana, West
00:47:03Virginia because of an injunction that was issued on in a case
00:47:08that was challenging some of our rules related to the Administrative Procedures Act.
00:47:12Texas is not subject to the injunction.
00:47:15We are operational in Texas, but we don't have jurisdiction over the Texas racetracks
00:47:20because the Texas Racing Commission has instructed them not to export their signal.
00:47:26Now, that was the case in 2022.
00:47:28My understanding is that they recently relaxed that that prohibition.
00:47:34But nonetheless, I guess Sam Houston decided not to not to export their signal.
00:47:40And by failing to export their signal means that we have no jurisdictional there's no
00:47:44interstate commerce. And so we don't have authority over any racetrack that doesn't
00:47:48export their signal.
00:47:50And what does your legal team tell you when the question is asked, might this wind up
00:47:54in the Supreme Court?
00:47:56You know, I think it's probably 50-50 now.
00:47:59The question about the Supreme Court, I think, is probably very much driven by what the
00:48:03Fifth Circuit does under the revised law.
00:48:06Right. Because we only have, as I said, one court that has ruled on the revised law.
00:48:11You know, Heise's view is that the Fifth Circuit identified an issue that it that it
00:48:15believed rendered the old law unconstitutional.
00:48:18And we fixed that issue with the legislative amendment.
00:48:21So we believe that the physical will now come back and say, OK, Heise is now, you know,
00:48:25you heard us, you've listened to us, Heise is now constitutional.
00:48:28And if there are two circuits that are in agreement, the chance of the Supreme Court
00:48:32taking cert, accepting the case, are lower.
00:48:36Now, it's not impossible. The Supreme Court could take whatever case they want.
00:48:39And obviously, this one has has, you know, significant meaning for for the state.
00:48:44It's a federal law that's that's being applied across the country.
00:48:48So it's hard to know for sure, but certainly the chances are higher if the Fifth Circuit
00:48:52finds it unconstitutional again.
00:48:54So when we when we reconvene here, Lisa, this is Tuesday, March 21st, and we
00:48:59reconvene on March 21st, 2024.
00:49:04What would you like to have seen transpire in that in that year?
00:49:10So one is I would like to have gained the trust of the majority of horsemen and
00:49:15players in the industry. You know, you may agree or disagree about a rule here or
00:49:20there, and that's all good. That's all part of the dialogue.
00:49:23But I really hope that and believe that we'll have the majority saying, OK, this is
00:49:27actually what we needed. You know, we needed a uniform system, needed uniform rules.
00:49:31This is good. And this is this actually professionalizes our sport to a different to a
00:49:35different level. And I hope that, you know, horsemen will feel like they have a chance
00:49:41to, as long as they're doing the right things, they're taking care of their horses,
00:49:44that they're going to get a level playing field.
00:49:47And I hope the public sees racing, horse racing in a different way, you know, safer
00:49:52and with more integrity.
00:49:53And I hope that our customer, the horse player, the gambler, also feels like there is
00:50:00an enhanced sort of reliability or credibility to the results.
00:50:05Lisa Lazarus, it's going to be a busy week for you and a very important day in horse
00:50:09racing Monday, March 27th, when HISA takes over drug testing, drug enforcement, etc.
00:50:14Thanks so much for spending some time with us here on the Third Red Daily News Writers
00:50:17Room podcast. Thank you both so much.
00:50:19I appreciate your time.
00:50:21As this week's guest of the week, Lisa Lazarus will receive another free one hour tax
00:50:27consultation from the Green Group, an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
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00:50:56the best racehorses in the history of the sport, like Eclipse Award winning champions
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00:51:38With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round, there's
00:51:44never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:51:50Purse money in Kentucky is at an all time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing
00:51:55California, Florida and New York.
00:51:59Kentucky breads.
00:52:00Breed them. Raise them.
00:52:02Race them. We all win.
00:52:08You can reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:52:12Purse money hit an all time high in Kentucky, $165.4 million in 2022, which topped the
00:52:192021 total by over $30 million.
00:52:23That's an average purse per race of $77,000, outpacing all other states.
00:52:29What else is up in Kentucky?
00:52:30Importantly to bettors, field size.
00:52:32The average field size in Kentucky now 8.4.
00:52:35That's higher than Florida, New York or California.
00:52:38And over $200 million has been distributed to Kentucky breeders since 2006.
00:52:45With quality racing year round, there is no better time to breed and race in the bluegrass.
00:52:50For more information, visit KentuckyBreads.com.
00:52:54Breed them, raise them, race them.
00:52:56We all win.
00:52:58Time to give us your for us to give you our thoughts on the big weekend races.
00:53:03And Randy, obviously want to start at the fairgrounds.
00:53:05And this is the beginning of the last round of Kentucky Derby preps, the ones where the
00:53:10winners get 100 points towards the Kentucky Derby.
00:53:13And of course, the Louisiana Derby is on the fairgrounds.
00:53:16I want to look at three races.
00:53:18Why don't we go in chronological order?
00:53:19Because there's three races that are really going to garner a lot of attention.
00:53:23And we start with the ninth, which is the New Orleans Classic.
00:53:25An art collector is in there.
00:53:28Many believe he's the top horse in racing right now, which he earned, which the argument
00:53:33began when he won the Pegasus World Cup by four and a half lengths.
00:53:37And that has been a key race.
00:53:40I didn't think the field was for a Pegasus, was all that strong going in.
00:53:44But Stiletto Boy was third.
00:53:46He's come back to win the Santa Anita Handicap.
00:53:48Last Samurai was fourth.
00:53:50We already talked about him for Wayne Lucas.
00:53:52He won the Essex and the Razorback.
00:53:53White Abario was in there.
00:53:55He came back on an allowance race.
00:53:56Skippy Longstocking came back and won the grade three and was it the Endeavor Stakes?
00:54:01I'm not really sure, but he won a grade three stakes race at Tampa Bay Downs on Tampa Bay Derby Day.
00:54:07Our collector will be an obvious favorite coming off what was arguably the best race of his career.
00:54:12Can they beat him, Randy?
00:54:14The only horse I can see in here that's got a shot to beat him, Bill, would be Wes Willpower.
00:54:19The Brad Cox factor at the fairgrounds where he's batting 41 percent right now.
00:54:24In Wes Willpower's last race at Oaklawn Park in the Razorback, he was second to our aforementioned
00:54:30trainer D. Wayne Lucas in Last Samurai by just a length and a half after a pretty aggressive
00:54:36move early in the race by Joel Rosario.
00:54:39It could possibly have cost Wes Willpower a little bit of starch during the latter part of that.
00:54:44So eight to five in the morning line for our collector, two to one for Wes Willpower.
00:54:50I think that's pretty accurate.
00:54:51I mean, you've got a local horse that's been doing really well at the fairgrounds, at least until his
00:54:55last start, named Happy American.
00:54:58But I think he's kind of overmatched in here.
00:55:00To me, it looks like pretty much a two horse race.
00:55:05You might be able to make a small case for Pioneer Medina and Todd Pletcher, who's coming off a
00:55:11victory in the mine shaft at the fairgrounds.
00:55:13Before that, second to Skippy Longstocking at Gulfstream Park.
00:55:16But I think it comes down to our collector and Wes Willpower.
00:55:20Yeah, I mean, I think Pioneer Medina has a chance.
00:55:22I'm just wondering a little bit about the pace here.
00:55:25The one horse Treasury is, you know, cheap speed coming out of allowance when it doesn't look like he's got
00:55:30much of a chance. He'll definitely go to the front.
00:55:32Well, the art collector and Wes Willpower like to be pretty forwardly placed.
00:55:36A matter of fact, both their last starts, they did not go to the lead.
00:55:40But before that, were going to the lead pretty much every time out early on in the pace.
00:55:46You've got Flavien Pratt and Junior Alvarado.
00:55:48I would imagine they would look at the race as I am.
00:55:50Just let this Treasury horse go on about his business and, you know, sit off of him and, you know, go make your
00:55:55move and take over maybe even way down the backstretch or something like that.
00:55:59Tactically, this could be really interesting.
00:56:02And here's why. Because you pointed out art collector from post two, Wes Willpower from post three.
00:56:08All right. Both like to be forwardly placed.
00:56:12I think Junior Alvarado, a board art collector, has got to be concerned about taking behind Treasury a little bit and
00:56:21moving to the inside, because if that happens, then that opens the door for the jockey of Wes Willpower, who is
00:56:28Flavien Pratt, to move to the outside of art collector and keep him pinned in behind that cheap speed behind
00:56:35Treasury, which is not a spot that Junior Alvarado wants to be at all.
00:56:40So it's going to be a nice little cat and mouse game going into the first turn.
00:56:43And I can totally see Junior Alvarado trying to prevent that from happening and getting a nice stalking spot just to
00:56:50the outside flank, certainly not behind, tucked in behind Treasury around that first turn and going into the
00:56:57backstretch. Yeah, we'll see how that all comes out.
00:56:59And if art collector wins, he will solidify his status as the top older horse in the country.
00:57:05But last samurai is breathing down his neck.
00:57:08The Fairgrounds Oaks presented by Fasig Tipton is the 11th race.
00:57:12And Randy, to me, this is the I mean, it's not the premier race on the card because that's Louisiana Derby.
00:57:17But this is the most interesting race because of the mystery of Hoosier Philly.
00:57:22And we know the story.
00:57:24I mean, you, me and everybody we know, Tom Amos was raving about this horse coming into the Rachel Alexander.
00:57:31Tom Amos had said this is the best horse he's ever trained.
00:57:34And she ran a dud in the Rachel Alexander, third beat in eight and a half lengths.
00:57:39I know Tom has said he didn't thought the trip affected her a little bit.
00:57:42She did stumble, kind of lose her footing for a brief period early on in the race.
00:57:48But even Amos admitted to me when I talked to him that at the top of the stretch, I mean, she sort of had dead aim on those horses and she just had no punch.
00:57:57I have no idea what happened to her.
00:57:59I do know that if the Hoosier Philly from last year shows up, she should win this.
00:58:04But I can't take her off that race, particularly at, you know, it's only a five horse field.
00:58:11So nobody's going to be a big price in here.
00:58:13There's three obvious contenders and pretty mischievous in the alleys looking Hoosier Philly.
00:58:17But I have to say, look, I love Tom Amos.
00:58:20He told me he still thinks this is the best horse he ever trained.
00:58:23I respect his opinion, but I got to try to beat her in here.
00:58:26And I think I'll go with Brendan Walsh and pretty mischievous.
00:58:29She's on a roll right now as one two straight, including the Rachel Alexander, where she, you know, beat Hoosier Philly handily in there.
00:58:35The alleys look for Brad Cox also, obviously, is a big contender in there.
00:58:39Yeah, it's only a five horse field.
00:58:41Let me skip through the other four horses and give you opinions on them real quick before I finish up with Hoosier Philly.
00:58:45The one horse, South Lawn, trained by Norm Cassie, who's having a fantastic winter so far, especially at Oaklawn Park, comes off a really strong eight length win against lesser competition with a good speed figure.
00:58:57After a throat procedure, she apparently had had a breathing issue.
00:59:02Jockey Tyler Gafleon had told Norm Cassie that she was making noises when she ran.
00:59:07So they had the breathing issue.
00:59:09You know, sometimes that's just an excuse, you know, whatever.
00:59:11But she did show marked improvement in her first start at the fairgrounds after having that throat operation.
00:59:18And so she's got the rail.
00:59:19She's not without a shot.
00:59:20Christian Dorough, number two, is only running in this race because her stablemate Flying Connection in the Todd Fincher barn is running Sunday in the Sunland Oaks.
00:59:30So they separated him.
00:59:31She'll probably set the pace and she'll be a big long shot in here.
00:59:34Pretty mischievous.
00:59:35She didn't have the greatest trip either.
00:59:37Not nearly as bad a trip as Hoosier Philly.
00:59:41But when she won the Rachel Alexandra, she was on the lead and then taken back inside and had to be steered back again outside.
00:59:48And then got carried out four or five wide, turning into the stretch and still showed a lot of determination and won anyway.
00:59:54I think she's kind of an underrated Philly.
00:59:56I agree with Brendan Walsh that she's not getting the credit that she deserves.
01:00:00The Allie's look or the Alice look.
01:00:02Alice is actually the granddaughter of Ike Thrash, the owner.
01:00:07That's how you pronounce it.
01:00:08The Alice look.
01:00:09She surprised Brad Cox when she beat Chop Chop last time out in the Silver Bullet Day.
01:00:12And she surprised Florent Giroux as well, because he opted to ride Chop Chop instead.
01:00:18Of the Alice look, the Alice look was very game throughout the stretch and turned back Chop Chop to win.
01:00:24You know, still not sure how good she is, but the number was good.
01:00:28And in that pantheon of Brad Cox, three year old Phillies, she at least is worth a mention.
01:00:36And then Hoosier Philly.
01:00:37OK, I did not like the trip at all.
01:00:40I can't say that it's the only reason why she lost, because when I go back and I look at her work,
01:00:47pattern, she was off quite a long time.
01:00:51She was off from the Goldenrod in November, November 26th.
01:00:56Her first published work after that was Jan 28.
01:01:00All right. So that's two full months at 60 days off.
01:01:04And then she only had three breezes before she ran in the Rachel Alexandra.
01:01:09And in hearing Tom talk, she does everything so easily.
01:01:13The first work back, he said, we just wanted to get a nice, easy work into her.
01:01:17So that leaves only two works to really get anything from a fitness perspective.
01:01:21And having watched the race, I think she needed the race.
01:01:24I really do. Plus, she had a look.
01:01:27The pace was horribly slow.
01:01:28She stumbles at the start.
01:01:30Edgar Morales has got her behind horses.
01:01:33They're backing up in her face, slowing the pace down.
01:01:35She wants to go. She has to steady.
01:01:36She wants to go. She has to steady.
01:01:38Very easy for a Philly like that to get discouraged behind that slow of a pace and getting bottled up and constantly wanting to go and having to be
01:01:47restrained. So, yeah, she made a move at the top of the stretch.
01:01:50But then I think she came up short as well.
01:01:52I think she's going to bounce back in a pretty big way.
01:01:55Look, if I'm Tom Amos, I tell Edgar Morales, look, don't mess around.
01:02:01Go. Just go.
01:02:04We know who's going to set the pace, probably Christian Dorough, but be right there.
01:02:08If she's as good as they think she is, right, she can have a high cruising speed.
01:02:13She doesn't have to be ridden like she's been ridden in the past where she's three and four wide and ridden like she's a one to ten shot and just kind of gallop around there until they get to the top of the stretch.
01:02:23No, this time you got to press on the gas a little bit and get her into the race and don't go three wide or four wide.
01:02:31Don't get behind horses.
01:02:32Just go. I think she'll probably win.
01:02:35All right. We're going to go in different directions in there.
01:02:38But the story is Hoosier Philly to see how she bounces back or not.
01:02:42All right. The next race on the card is, of course, the Louisiana Derby.
01:02:46You spoke of Brad Cox and the just tremendous run he's on at the fairgrounds where he's winning, as you said, 41 percent.
01:02:53He's got three in here, including the obvious favorite instant coffee.
01:02:58Randy, my take on the first thing I noticed about this race is there's very little speed in here.
01:03:02Yes. I don't know who's going to go to the front.
01:03:04I think I see the one or shoppers revenge could for see vast use.
01:03:09It might set the pace because set the pace two starts back at Oakland and then got a bad break last time out at again in an allowance race at Oakland.
01:03:18I wonder if instant coffee is going to be up against it a little bit from a pace standpoint in here.
01:03:24This is a horse that's going to be mid pack to even further back a little bit early.
01:03:29Is he the best horse in the race?
01:03:30Could be, but I'm looking to possibly try to beat him.
01:03:35And I'm interested in that just from a strictly from a little bit of a pace price play.
01:03:42The two horses come out of this fairgrounds allowance race won by Dennington and Cagliostro was second in there.
01:03:49And Randy, I don't know who from your team does the fairgrounds figures, but I'm sure you notice a very good number in there.
01:03:54Ninety one for Dennington.
01:03:57So he also will be a little bit pace compromised, but Cagliostro would probably be fairly close to the pace.
01:04:03And, you know, and also the Pletcher horse.
01:04:07You have to look at King's Barn as well.
01:04:09I know this is a huge step up from an allowance race at Tampa Bay Downs, but he's done nothing wrong.
01:04:14You look great pulverizing easier at Tampa last time out.
01:04:18So those are some of my thoughts yours.
01:04:20Yeah, I love this race.
01:04:22I mean, you know, it doesn't have Forte in it, but it's a it's it's a very competitive race.
01:04:28It could go in a lot of different directions.
01:04:31Little news right off the top.
01:04:32Tappets Conquest is not going to run.
01:04:35Brad Cox just told me about 30 minutes ago.
01:04:37We're taping this on Wednesday.
01:04:39Tappets Conquest is going to be rerouted to the wood where Cox is anticipating having three starters.
01:04:46He's already got Slip Mahoney and Hitshow.
01:04:49You'll probably leave Hitshow up there to run in the wood.
01:04:52So he'll have three starters.
01:04:53Tappets Conquest will not run in the Louisiana Derby.
01:04:55Now, from a pace perspective, I totally agree with your handicapping that there's very little early pace.
01:05:02I could see Shopper's Revenge and Ricardo Santana, especially from the number one post, trying to use some speed.
01:05:10The only hesitance I have there is that even when he won two races back at Oakland Wire to Wire, he didn't jump particularly quickly from the gate.
01:05:19He's not a quick gatehorse.
01:05:22And then, of course, last time he just got out, he just out and out missed the break.
01:05:25So there are some issues that Shopper's Revenge has had at the start.
01:05:30Where I think the pace is going to come from, I think he'll be close if he's not on the lead.
01:05:34But I'm expecting Kings Barnes to set the pace from post position number six.
01:05:40Two lifetime starts, both wins.
01:05:43The race at Gulfstream Park was a very fast paced race by one mile, one turn standards at Gulfstream.
01:05:51It was not a particularly fast surface that day.
01:05:53No run up to speak of in a mile at Gulfstream Park.
01:05:56And so fractionally speaking, that was a pretty solid pace that he was right on in that race.
01:06:02And then it was also a really quick pace for the day for Tampa Bay at a mile 70 in that allowance race that he ran in when he set three or four lengths off the pace and just blew the field away.
01:06:12With the lack of speed in here, I haven't talked to Pletcher, but I could totally see Flavien Pratt and Kings Barnes trying to capitalize on that and going to the lead.
01:06:22And I also firmly expect Jace's Road and Florence Giroux to be right up on the pace as well.
01:06:28He was two races back in the gunrunner.
01:06:31It wasn't a particularly quick pace, but they have an outside post.
01:06:34They're going to have to use him a little bit anyway to try to get over.
01:06:37In the southwest, it was a sloppy track, which he doesn't seem to like, but he was behind horses as well and didn't handle that.
01:06:44So I think they're going to put him right up there close to the lead.
01:06:48I'm expecting Kings Barnes, Jace's Road to his outside and Chopper's Revenge right behind him.
01:06:53And I agree with you in that I tried to beat Instant Coffee, if you remember, in the LeCompte.
01:06:59I tried to beat him with two fills and I had a little flash of excitement at the top of the stretch when two fills went to the lead.
01:07:07And I also backed it up with my pocketbook and I did not play an Instant Coffee two fills exactly.
01:07:12I had it the other way around.
01:07:14So I'm going to try to beat Instant Coffee again.
01:07:16I think given the pace scenario, I think Kings Barnes is a strong wire to wire threat.
01:07:23And that's my exact Kings Barnes over Instant Coffee.
01:07:26About that allowance ratio you mentioned, I do the figs for the fairgrounds.
01:07:30I went back and double checked that 91 buyer speed figure for Dennington and it's solid.
01:07:35There's nothing wrong with that number.
01:07:37From a class perspective, if you're a class handicapper, you can look at Dennington against stakes competition in the LeCompte when he didn't do very well and the Smarty Jones when he was well beaten.
01:07:48And maybe you can put a black mark against him for that.
01:07:51But if you're a speed figure guy, then Dennington just may be on the improve.
01:07:56And that's a good number that he ran last time out along with Cagliostro.
01:08:00Speaking of two fills, he runs Saturday in what technically they call the Jeff Ruby Stakes.
01:08:06Really should be the Jeff Ruby Stakes.
01:08:08Stakes.
01:08:08Stakes, yes.
01:08:09Yeah, that's the real name of it.
01:08:11And nobody seems to catch on to that.
01:08:13Anyway, OK, so two fills is in there coming off a third place finish in the Risen Star with making his debut over a synthetic surface.
01:08:20The five to two morning line favorite is Major Dude, trained by Todd Pletcher.
01:08:25And, you know, an interesting spot.
01:08:26And it's a smart spot for him to be in here.
01:08:29Because, Randy, as you mentioned earlier, Pletcher is so good at picking up Derby points, getting his horses into the races race.
01:08:35Major Dude runs in the top three.
01:08:37That would be enough to get him in the Derby.
01:08:39I can't go for this horse.
01:08:41I know there is a seems to be a correlation between turf and synthetic, but it doesn't always necessarily work that way.
01:08:48This is a grass horse.
01:08:50And I don't want a grass horse trying something new for the first time in his career as the favorite in there.
01:08:56I'm going to go for number four, Funtastic again.
01:09:00And I know he had a real easy trip in this Leonidas Stakes last time out.
01:09:06But boy, did he look good winning that.
01:09:08You could see that the Racing Forum comment won for fun.
01:09:11Impressive.
01:09:12And of all things, the Leonidas Stakes has become a key race.
01:09:16Go figure, huh?
01:09:17Rays Cain came out of that and won the Gotham.
01:09:20He was fifth and Hayes Strike, who was last in the Leonidas Stakes, came back this weekend, last weekend at Laurel and won the private term stakes.
01:09:28So, again, just looking for a little bit of an upset in here.
01:09:32I'm going for Funtastic again.
01:09:34There's the Sandy Leone story in here with Congruent.
01:09:36Can Sandy Leone win another Kentucky Derby two straight years with a big long shot?
01:09:42Well, he's got a shot in here with Congruent, who's probably already made the field for the Derby with his win in James Pataglia.
01:09:47Your horse, Two Phils, is interesting, but has never been on Synthetic, so he's a question mark to me.
01:09:52Those are my thoughts.
01:09:53What about you, Randy?
01:09:54Wouldn't it be amazing if Sandy Leone is back in the Kentucky Derby?
01:09:57Look, Congruent looked awfully good visually winning the prep for this, the Pataglia back on March the 4th.
01:10:06But that was an extremely odd race, because if you watch that, you know, as we know, as any handicapper knows,
01:10:15synthetics play closer to turf, as you pointed out, than they do dirt.
01:10:20And they are much less kind to early speed than a regular dirt surface is.
01:10:26Not to say you can't win wire to wire on Synthetic, but it's not a speed favoring a track as regular dirt.
01:10:32And in the Pataglia, we saw what, by Turfway Park standards, from mile into 16th was an absolutely suicidal pace.
01:10:4022.94 for the quarter, 45.93 for the half.
01:10:44And as a result, all the horses on the inside that were in the pace mix just literally put the brakes on around the second turn.
01:10:50And visually, then you saw all these horses just come flying on the outside, four or five wide.
01:10:56And you're like, wow, who is that?
01:10:58Whoa, who is that?
01:11:00And Congruent was one of those who circled the field, which from a ground loss perspective is going to boost his figure in some figure surfaces.
01:11:08But that was the best part of the track to be on, given the way the pace was shaping up.
01:11:13By contrast, a horse named Scooby Quando took the inside route around the turn and got absolutely buried all the way around the second turn.
01:11:22As the speed horses backed up in front of him, couldn't get out until about the 3.16 pole and still finished pretty well to be second.
01:11:31Now, is he as good as Major Dude?
01:11:35Is he as good as Two Fills?
01:11:37You know, is he as good as Wadsworth, the Brad Cox horse in there who beat him a couple of races back?
01:11:42Maybe not, but for your exotics, for your, you know, your tries and your supers, you could do a lot worse than throwing, you know, Scooby Quando in there.
01:11:51You've got Mike Maker, who's won this race six times, who is in here with a horse named Maker's Candy, but that's probably a stretch.
01:12:01Now, about Major Dude, I got to root for him simply because I'm a Steely Dan guy and Major Dude is named after a Steely Dan song.
01:12:10But anyway, this horse is not bred to be a turf horse at all.
01:12:13He's bred to be dirt.
01:12:14Now, Bolt D'Oro, the sire, can go both ways, but he's out of a distorted humor mare.
01:12:18And that's why they started this horse early in his career on dirt.
01:12:22He broke his maiden at Monmouth on dirt.
01:12:25Then he ran in the Sanford, didn't run very well.
01:12:27Then he ran in the sapling.
01:12:28It was a distant third.
01:12:29And Todd Pletcher told us at the time that he thought he was underachieving on dirt.
01:12:36So he said, I'll just work him on grass as an experiment and see what happens.
01:12:40And what happened was that he really thought the horse traveled better and ran better in that workout, at least on turf than he had been training on dirt.
01:12:49So he said, OK, I'm going to that's that experiment work.
01:12:52Now I'm going to run him on the grass.
01:12:54And lo and behold, a ten to one.
01:12:55He wins the Pilgrim and he's been on turf ever since.
01:12:57Now, fast forward, Kentucky Derby time is rolling around, you know, spin through Pharma.
01:13:02Undoubtedly, he has a little bit of Derby fever.
01:13:04The horse just ran a big speed figure in winning the Kitten's Joy at Gulfstream Park.
01:13:09He's got dirt pedigree.
01:13:10Why not go back to the dirt now or at least the synthetic and give him a chance and see if it's all turf or if he can maybe succeed on synthetic?
01:13:21If he wins here, you know, Pletcher's loaded, obviously, but I think it's probably a pretty safe bet that they'll go ahead and give the Kentucky Derby a shot.
01:13:29I love his post position.
01:13:30I think he's the horse to beat.
01:13:32I don't know if he deserves to be a heavy, heavy favorite.
01:13:34I can totally agree with you.
01:13:35The Funtastic, again, looks pretty good on paper as well.
01:13:39Don't like the post for two fills being out there.
01:13:42I'm not sure about him at a mile and an eighth.
01:13:44I do not have a strong opinion about this race at all.
01:13:48We're doing it, by the way, on NBC.
01:13:50We're we're showing Fairgrounds Oaks and the Louisiana Derby and the Jeff Ruby Stakes as part of sort of like a triple header on Saturday.
01:13:59What what time and which of the affiliates?
01:14:03I'm afraid you were going to ask me that, Bill.
01:14:06Well, OK, I don't know.
01:14:09Check your local listings.
01:14:11Check your local listings.
01:14:12I'm pretty sure it's between five and six.
01:14:16No, I'm not sure because the Jeff Ruby race comes off at six twenty five.
01:14:21It's between six and seven p.m.
01:14:23Eastern time.
01:14:24So check your listings as to which of the NBC family of networks that we will be on.
01:14:30But we'll be in the studio from Stanford.
01:14:33I knew you were going to ask me that.
01:14:34You certainly check that out.
01:14:36OK, check your local listings.
01:14:38But always worth tuning in, Randy and Jerry.
01:14:42Hey, by the way, the XBTV Workout of the Week is in and it's national treasure.
01:14:47Working five furlongs at Santa Anita on March 19th.
01:14:50You remember him. He was the morning light favorite scratched in the San Felipe because of a minor foot issue.
01:14:56Trainer Tim Yatien has said that he's coming back next in the bluegrass.
01:15:00So how did he do in his work?
01:15:02Take a look.
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01:16:49Well, this week's Remy Block cartoon is in.
01:16:51It airs, it doesn't air, it is in the TDN every Friday.
01:16:57And I like this one this week.
01:16:58You see horses drinking out of a stream and they're boy, are they happy?
01:17:03And they're everybody's got to fix what's going on.
01:17:06Well, if you look up, you see that there was a leak at the Woodford Distillery
01:17:10and bourbon is leaking into the stream.
01:17:13Randy, you've had some experience with horses and alcohol.
01:17:16Tell us more.
01:17:17Yeah, as I was telling you guys earlier, back in the early 1980s,
01:17:21it was a horse, the stakes horse, a pretty nice horse, a sprinter.
01:17:24And he had a funny little dietary habit where for dessert
01:17:31after his dinner every day, the trainer and his wife would give the horse
01:17:35a bottle of Budweiser and he would clench the bottle of Budweiser in his teeth
01:17:39and he would throw his head back and, you know, kill it basically.
01:17:43And then toss the beer bottle into the shed row.
01:17:46They did that. Local TV loved it.
01:17:48They always had camera people come out to show this horse
01:17:51having his having his daily Budweiser, and it seemed to do him good.
01:17:54And believe it or not, I kid you not, the horse's name was Last Buzz.
01:18:00Don't know if he ever got buzzed, but he loved his Budweiser.
01:18:04I wonder with Hyza, if you test positive for Budweiser after a race,
01:18:08could that be a sanction?
01:18:09Maybe we'll ask Lisa Lazarus that next time we have her on the show.
01:18:13Well, that's a wrap for this week's TDN Writers Room podcast.
01:18:16I want to thank Randy Moss, Zoe Kamen, as I said, will be back next week.
01:18:20In addition, CNBC is the network bill.
01:18:24CNBC. CNBC from six to seven p.m.
01:18:28Eastern time on Saturday. There you go.
01:18:30All right. There you go.
01:18:31Well, thank you, Randy Moss.
01:18:33And once again, I want to thank our entire crew this week consisted of Randy,
01:18:37our Green Group guest of the week, Lisa Lazarus.
01:18:39Zoe Kamen will be back next week.
01:18:41And our editors, Nathan Wilkinson, Aaliyah LaRocca, Anthony LaRocca,
01:18:45our producer, Patty Wolf, and our associate producer, Katie Petruniak.
01:18:50Enjoy the fairgrounds races and the big Jeff Ruby stakes, stakes at Turnpike
01:18:55Mart. See you next week.