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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the TDN.
00:00:33I also co-host the Down the Stretch radio show and Sirius XM radio.
00:00:38My name is Randy Moss.
00:00:39I'm with NBC Sports and also the Buyer Speed Figure team.
00:00:43Zoe Cabman here with First Racing and XBTV.
00:00:46I've had this mic pretty much like right in my face, so hopefully you can hear me a little
00:00:52bit better.
00:00:53We can hear you just fine, Zoe.
00:00:55Thanks so much.
00:00:56I do want to remind you that this week and every week we are brought to you by our good
00:00:59friends at Keeneland.
00:01:00So guys, some interesting races.
00:01:02I mean, it's a quiet time of the year.
00:01:05Post Breeders' Cup until the Triple Crown prep season gets going is probably the quietest
00:01:09time of all on the calendar for horse racing, but we had some interesting races last week.
00:01:14And I think the one that everybody is most talking about is Nysos, who won the Bob Hope
00:01:19Stakes out at Del Mar because you have an undefeated Bob Baffert horse who's running
00:01:23big figures.
00:01:24He ran a 96 winning his debut, came back and ran a 97 to win the Bob Hope Stakes last time
00:01:31out.
00:01:32So we look at him and think this is a good prospect, Zoe, but he's got a lot of questions
00:01:38to answer.
00:01:39Number one, can he do more than sprint?
00:01:41And also he only won a race which was a four horse field.
00:01:45So I'm not saying that he's not going to be a big deal next year so far as the road to
00:01:50the Triple Crown or whatnot, but I do think he needs to prove a little bit more.
00:01:55I think he's pretty darn good.
00:01:56He was impressive just beating four others.
00:01:58Now, Kyle Frey rode him in his debut and he ran off and hid by 10 and a half with a 96,
00:02:05like you mentioned.
00:02:06He came back and ran a 97.
00:02:08He had a perfect break on the outside with Pratt aboard him for the very first time.
00:02:12The thing that I really loved was Bob took the blinkers off and we see him do this a
00:02:17lot.
00:02:18He puts the blinkers on.
00:02:19Now the blinkers are cheaters.
00:02:20These blinkers that he uses are maybe an inch, so they're barely there anyway.
00:02:25He took them off because he wanted him to relax.
00:02:27He broke alertly with the field, dropped back under Flavian Pratt and just had the perfect
00:02:33trip and drew off to win by as many as he wanted to.
00:02:37Now he got a 97 by a speed figure, the third highest for a two year old this year.
00:02:42When you consider that fierceness got 105, his stable mate, Prince of Monaco got 103.
00:02:50He's very, very good.
00:02:51Right now he looks like a steal.
00:02:52They paid 550,000 for him at the OBS April two year old sale.
00:02:57Best of luck, sold him.
00:02:59I remember looking at him at the two year old sale and he's pretty compact.
00:03:04He looks like a strong, good moving, I'm not going to say he looks like a sprinter, but
00:03:09he's got a bit more body than your average Nyquist does.
00:03:14I thought he was terrific in winning that race.
00:03:17I have no question, Flavian Pratt thinks it as well, that he'll have no problem going
00:03:21two turns.
00:03:22Yeah, he didn't look like it to me.
00:03:24The style difference is what struck me the most, first race to second race.
00:03:28If you remember back in his debut, he was in a maiden sprint in which there were three
00:03:34Bob Baffert runners and he was the highest priced of the three in odds.
00:03:39He was six to one.
00:03:40When the gates opened, he was sent basically.
00:03:43He was ridden really aggressively the first part of the race to be up on the lead and
00:03:47then we know what happened.
00:03:48He went head and head, he pulled away.
00:03:50And then with the blinkers off the other day, he settles very nicely, last at one point
00:03:56in a very short field, but in contact.
00:03:59And I loved the way he just settled down and relaxed beautifully.
00:04:03I loved his stride, very efficient stride.
00:04:08You watch the head on straight as a string coming down to the wire.
00:04:12It looked visually like extra distance wouldn't be much of a problem and he's by Nyquist.
00:04:18So yeah, I mean, I think he checks a lot of the boxes.
00:04:21Bob's obviously got a lot of two-year-old ammunition in his barn.
00:04:25Probably quite a few that we haven't even seen yet that are going to come to the forefront
00:04:29as they always do in late winter and early spring.
00:04:34Is he better than Muth, who was the American Pharoah winner, grade one winner and second
00:04:39in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile?
00:04:41Horses-wise, you would say yes.
00:04:43But there's a lot of time between now and of course, when we get to the Triple Crown
00:04:47next year, that's always the big thing to watch.
00:04:50So many times you get these top two-year-olds, including horses in the Batford barn, and
00:04:54they run so fast and they're so impressive in their two-year-old years, especially late
00:04:58in their two-year-old years.
00:04:59And then one thing or another happens and they don't get a chance to make the Triple
00:05:04Crown.
00:05:05So fingers crossed this horse can stay healthy and we'll see how good he turns out to be.
00:05:09He looks pretty good to me right now.
00:05:10Zoe, after he won the first time, you had this really cute story about Kyle Frey and
00:05:16the kid at the clockers' corner who was pleading with Batford to put him on the horse.
00:05:22It was really sweet.
00:05:23I understand why, you know, the horse of this caliber, you want to go with the Flavian Prats
00:05:27of the world.
00:05:28But what happened there?
00:05:31I guess the little, I don't remember if it was a young boy or a young girl, but I guess
00:05:36their sway was not as much as we might've thought.
00:05:39Well, you know what?
00:05:41Kyle has ridden a few horses for Bob now.
00:05:43He came back and won with another one the very next week.
00:05:46So he's got paid.
00:05:48You know, we see it each and every time.
00:05:49Look at Drayden Van Dyke in Justify.
00:05:51I'm not comparing Nysos to Justify by any ways, means, shape, or form, but you know,
00:05:58Drayden did a great job.
00:05:59He rode him.
00:06:00I think he won three races on him and he got taken off, or broke his maiden and he got
00:06:03taken off.
00:06:04So that's the way that it happens.
00:06:06And Kyle Frey will get his opportunity.
00:06:08And right now he's getting the opportunity to ride some horses for Bob, which he never
00:06:12had before.
00:06:13So Kyle's a good kid.
00:06:15He's not going to complain.
00:06:17He's going to take what he's given and cash that check at the end of the week.
00:06:20But one thing that I wanted to add was, is it just me?
00:06:24But it seems like Baffert's two year olds are coming to the Frey later and later.
00:06:31It used to be Delmar was like, Baffert broke all the maidens in Delmar, and now we're seeing
00:06:37it in the fall.
00:06:38We're in November and we haven't seen his best two year old yet.
00:06:42Am I right?
00:06:44It seems that way to me.
00:06:46Absolutely.
00:06:47Yeah.
00:06:48I mean, of course, he's still winning the Delmar Futurity every year, but his best two
00:06:52year olds and three year olds seem to be coming around a little bit later.
00:06:56Yeah.
00:06:57All right.
00:06:59This weekend at Aqueduct, we had another race that, you know, generally we wouldn't really
00:07:03even talk about.
00:07:04The Hill Prince States.
00:07:05Big deal.
00:07:06What's the Hill Prince?
00:07:07But there's a horse in there for our friends from West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:07:09I think I know who they're going to promo in their spot later on in the show because
00:07:14integration co-owned by West Point Thoroughbreds and Woodford Racing.
00:07:18An interesting horse got a very late start to his career as a three year old, didn't
00:07:23debut until August 12th.
00:07:25And at that was at Colonial Downs and came and won a stake at Colonial, then came back
00:07:29in the Hill Prince Stakes under, again, a rider who you wouldn't necessarily think would
00:07:35be getting the A stock from Shug McGehee in Kendrick Carmouche.
00:07:40But again, I realize this isn't the sexiest division, but, you know, is integration now
00:07:47going to take over for up to the mark as America's kind of star among male turf horses
00:07:55on the grass?
00:07:56I think having just won the Hill Prince Grade 2, again, kind of let's, you know, let's see
00:08:00him do a little bit more.
00:08:02But I think that the take from most people was universal.
00:08:05This is a really good horse with a very bright future, Zoe.
00:08:09Anytime you're three for three is pretty darn good.
00:08:13And two of those are grade three races.
00:08:16He's won his combined three starts by 12 plus lengths.
00:08:20Kendrick rode him to perfection the other day.
00:08:23And Kendrick's a very, very good rider and is going to make a lot of money there at Aqueduct
00:08:26this winter.
00:08:27So he's three for three owned by West Point and Woodford Thoroughbreds.
00:08:31We're going to talk about integration an awful lot.
00:08:33So take it away, Randy.
00:08:34Yeah.
00:08:35I mean, obviously we know you can be three for three and you can, you know, we can be
00:08:40like, yeah, yeah.
00:08:41Okay.
00:08:42He's a decent horse.
00:08:43Three for three.
00:08:44Well spotted, you know.
00:08:45This is the kind of horse where you go back and you watch the videos of the three races
00:08:49and you're like, wow.
00:08:50I mean, he's got that turn of foot.
00:08:53He's got that kind of wow factor.
00:08:55He certainly impressed Kendrick Carmouche.
00:08:57Carmouche was quoted pretty effusively as saying in his 23 years of riding, this is
00:09:03the best horse that he's ever sat on.
00:09:06He's now, he's been penciled in by Terry Finley with West Point and Suge McGehee for the Pegasus
00:09:14World Cup turf on January the 27th.
00:09:17They like the spacing between this past race, two and a half months or so until the Pegasus
00:09:22World Cup.
00:09:24And one thing that Terry Finley pointed out, we're going to be talking to Jimmy Jerkins
00:09:28a little bit later as our Green Group guest of the week.
00:09:31And we, you know, we'll hit on this topic with Jimmy as well.
00:09:35But Terry Finley, you know, had never had a real relationship professionally with Suge
00:09:41McGehee.
00:09:43And he was like, you know, that's what's so special about horse racing is that we have
00:09:47these Hall of Famers in their 70s and Wayne Lucas in his late 80s that are still coming
00:09:53to the barn every day, that are still doing it, that are still working hard, that have
00:09:57all this experience.
00:09:59You know, why not try to take advantage of that?
00:10:02And that was one of the reasons why integration wound up with Suge McGehee.
00:10:09And it's been nothing but successful so far, obviously.
00:10:12Yeah, we'll keep an eye on him.
00:10:14Now, this horse is not the best sprinter out there.
00:10:19He ran fifth in the Breeders' Cup, a matter of fact.
00:10:21But we need a new award in horse racing for the coolest horse in training.
00:10:26And if we can get them to have that award, a Special Eclipse Award, you know, three-year-old
00:10:30champion, turf champion, Horse of the Year, and the coolest horse in horse racing, it's
00:10:35a slam dunk.
00:10:36How about the Chosen Fraud?
00:10:38How could you not love this horse?
00:10:41He had won eight straight races before the Breeders' Cup, including the grade one Bing
00:10:45Crosby, and didn't run badly in the Breeders' Cup at all.
00:10:47He just wasn't quite as good enough to beat those kind of horses.
00:10:50Then he comes back two weeks later in the Cary Grant and wins that for the second straight
00:10:55year.
00:10:56He's won eight straight races versus the California Reds.
00:11:00He's a five-year-old gelding.
00:11:01He seems as sound as they come.
00:11:03I think this is a horse we're going to be talking about for some time.
00:11:06And how about the poor horse that keeps running second to him, Big City Lights?
00:11:10Fourth straight start, where he finished second to the Chosen Fraud.
00:11:15So I am advocating for a new award, and we can call it, we can even name it the Chosen
00:11:20Fraud Award.
00:11:21And we're going to give it each year to the most admirable, coolest horse out there in
00:11:25horse racing.
00:11:26Well, the pod owners, John and Dorita Sondraker, would absolutely love that.
00:11:32So I'll be sure to tell them, in fact, I know that John's a big listener, so kudos to them
00:11:36for winning.
00:11:38Who wouldn't want a five-year-old cowbred who's as sound as a pound?
00:11:41He's made over a million dollars.
00:11:43He shows up every single time.
00:11:45He's a grade one winner.
00:11:46It's not like he's just beaten cowbreds.
00:11:49He is a legitimate grade one winner who hopefully we'll see for a couple more years.
00:11:54And he won in a gallop the other day.
00:11:57Really cool little horse.
00:11:58And Cruel Jack's done a fantastic job with him.
00:12:02They've done right by the horse.
00:12:03When the horse has needed time, they've given the horse time.
00:12:06They've been very patient with him at times, and it's paid off.
00:12:10They spotted him well.
00:12:11You had to try the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
00:12:13You're in Southern California.
00:12:14The horse has won eight races in a row.
00:12:16He's coming off a stakes win against Open Company.
00:12:19You got to give it a shot.
00:12:20Okay, he was over his head in there, as it turned out.
00:12:22Didn't give up.
00:12:23Tried hard.
00:12:24This race pops up 14 days later, and Cruel Jack was quoted as saying, you know, I don't
00:12:31want to run it back that quickly in a perfect world.
00:12:34But there's really not much on the horizon for him immediately after this race.
00:12:38He came out of the Breeders' Cup well, I'm just going to put him back in here.
00:12:42And I mean, the horse has won 10 out of 12 lifetime starts against California Breeds.
00:12:46So he dominates in a situation like that.
00:12:49Really, really cool horse.
00:12:52The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:55Make plans to attend the Keeneland January Horses of All Ages Sale, taking place from
00:13:01January the 8th to January the 11th.
00:13:04Keeneland January Horses of All Ages Sale is noted for high-quality broodmare prospects
00:13:10and short yearlings, and for being among the final opportunities for breeders to obtain
00:13:15stock as the breeding season nears.
00:13:18I'll get through this eventually.
00:13:20Supplemental entries are still being accepted.
00:13:23We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:27At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:13:37Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:13:45Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:13:49Not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:13:53For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:13:58Each week on the TDN Writer's Room, we bring you the fastest horse of the week, sponsored
00:14:01by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:14:03This week's stallion, Global Campaign, fast son of Kirtland, who had 18 six-figure yearlings
00:14:09sell this year to some of the top names in the business, and whose first two-year-olds
00:14:14will hit the track in 2024.
00:14:16Global Campaign won six of his ten starts on the track, including the Woodward Stakes,
00:14:20earned four triple-digit buyers, and pedigree-wise, he's a half-brother to Bolt Dorough.
00:14:27That's Global Campaign standing at Windstar Farm.
00:14:31Fastest horse of the week this year, times three.
00:14:33We had a three-way tie, each with a 100-buyer speed figure.
00:14:37We've talked about the Chosen Braun winning the Cary Grant on Del Mar on Saturday.
00:14:43The second one, also at Del Mar on Friday, in an allowance race, Fort Bragg from the
00:14:48Bob Baffert Staple won very impressively, finally back on a fast track, and he's now
00:14:52being pointed, we're told, for the Malibu Stakes at Santa Anita, and then Aggregation
00:14:57on Sunday, in an allowance race at Aqueduct, a one-mile allowance, also earned a 100-buyer
00:15:03speed figure.
00:15:04Owner Seth Klarman had Aggregation in the November Horses of Racing Age sale, pulled
00:15:09him from that sale, and he may be glad he did, Chad Brown, the trainer there of Aggregation.
00:15:22So last week, we were debating about how much Rick Strike is going to sell for in the Keeneland
00:15:27November Horses of Racing Age sale, and, well, we don't know, because he was withdrawn by
00:15:35owner Rick Dawson.
00:15:37I don't know what to make of the situation now, because we don't have a whole lot of
00:15:41information here.
00:15:43The horse hasn't raced in ages.
00:15:45He is only in, quote-unquote, light training.
00:15:48Nothing has been said about him coming back, when he's going to come back, what their plans
00:15:52are now.
00:15:53All we know is we've seen plan A, plan B, plan C. What is plan D?
00:15:59I don't really know.
00:16:00I think this is an easy horse to root for.
00:16:03Some people, he never should have won the Derby, he was 80-1, and who the heck is Sonny
00:16:07Leone and all that kind of stuff, but I'd love to see him get back into good form and
00:16:12be competitive against top-class horses.
00:16:15But at this point, it's just a guessing game now.
00:16:20Rick Dawson has said that he'll have more to say about this in the weeks ahead, but
00:16:25anyways, we don't have to worry about how much he was going to sell for, and what's
00:16:29his future?
00:16:30Who knows?
00:16:31I mean, there must not have been any offers from any stud deals.
00:16:36And I think Randy hit the nail on the head.
00:16:38They should have run him through and see if the Japanese wanted him.
00:16:41Maybe they didn't.
00:16:42Maybe they didn't get any bites at all.
00:16:44I've got no idea.
00:16:46He's obviously got a little bit of a soundness issue because he hasn't done anything for
00:16:51quite some time.
00:16:53Bill Mott pulled the plug on him.
00:16:55So I'm at a loss.
00:16:57I don't know.
00:16:58Zoe, could it have been that they put a reserve on him, and he was told behind the scenes,
00:17:03you're not getting this?
00:17:05Is that among the possibilities?
00:17:07I mean, yes, maybe, but no one really knows what the reserve is until they go up there.
00:17:12So I don't know.
00:17:16I wish I had an answer.
00:17:19Here's the way I look at it.
00:17:21As a Kentucky Derby winner, he's going to have a certain amount of residual value.
00:17:29And it's not like he didn't have any decent races at all after the Kentucky Derby.
00:17:36He probably should have won the Lucas Classic.
00:17:38He ran reasonably well in the Travers.
00:17:40I think he finished fourth.
00:17:42He ran a 106 buyer speed figure in the Breeders' Cup Classic behind Flightline.
00:17:46He was 11 lengths behind Flightline, which is nothing to be ashamed of.
00:17:51And then the wheels fell off in his two subsequent races.
00:17:53He ran terribly.
00:17:55So if they retire him now on the basis of those two really, really bad races, he's pretty
00:18:01much, I think, at the bottom of what his residual value as a Kentucky Derby winner
00:18:05is going to be.
00:18:06But they signed up Bill Mott, at least we were told, to train the horse if he made it
00:18:13back to the races.
00:18:15So unless the veterinarians are telling them that this horse has an injury that will preclude
00:18:20him ever racing again, what's to lose?
00:18:24I mean, why not try to get him back in training, get him sound, give him to Bill Mott, let
00:18:30Mott train him, let Mott tell you what you've got.
00:18:34And I mean, we've seen many, many, many times what Bill Mott can do with horses like this.
00:18:39And who knows?
00:18:40Maybe Mott can get Rich Strike back to the races.
00:18:44And suddenly he's a grade one level horse and that residual value he has right now goes
00:18:49much higher.
00:18:50I mean, why not at least give it a shot?
00:18:52I don't know if that's what Rick Dawson is thinking.
00:18:54He's not saying a whole lot about this.
00:18:57But I mean, what's to lose, really, if the horse can make it back to the races?
00:19:02He still has something to prove on the racetrack, in my opinion.
00:19:07Didn't Bill have him already?
00:19:09Or did he go to the farm?
00:19:11He's been at the farm.
00:19:12He has never been under Bill Mott's shed, bro.
00:19:15He's been in light training at Margo Farm.
00:19:18And that's really, you know, as far as they've gotten.
00:19:21I had talked to Rick a couple months ago, and he had told me that right about now was
00:19:25the time.
00:19:26He had thought that was before anything ever came up about selling to McElan that right
00:19:30about now would be the time late November so that he would return to Mott's barn or
00:19:35come to Mott's barn.
00:19:36He was even talking that maybe they could make the Pegasus World Cup.
00:19:39But obviously that that's out at this time.
00:19:42Zoe, have you ever bet a $20 Superfecta all with all with all with all with all or whatever
00:19:50it was?
00:19:51I haven't.
00:19:52No one else in their right mind has.
00:19:54So when that started to happen last Wednesday, this is a crazy story.
00:19:59And I don't know how much we can add to it.
00:20:03But there was a glitch with FanDuel Racing, which is not it's different than TVG.
00:20:10It's the FanDuel sports betting website that accepts horse racing bets, where if you bet,
00:20:17like I said, that kind of a box of any number of combinations, it would only take out of
00:20:22your account the base bet, the $20.
00:20:26Somebody figured this out.
00:20:27And to give you example, some of the crazy things we saw Monticello Raceway, a tiny little
00:20:32harness track in the Catskills that nobody even knows what's going on.
00:20:36In the sixth race on last Wednesday, the betting was $1.45 million on the Superfecta.
00:20:44Normally, it's about eight or $9,000.
00:20:47Now, what happened is what always happens in these things, and it reminds me of the
00:20:51pick six fix back at Lone Star a few years ago.
00:20:55These weird things happen.
00:20:56The people are doing this got greedy and they had just nickeled and dimed their way.
00:21:01They could have made $25,000, $30,000 and nobody ever would have caught him.
00:21:05But you're starting to bet $20 all, all, all, all, all.
00:21:11Anyways, obviously, they're not going to see any money from this.
00:21:15But this is about the strangest thing I've ever seen when it comes to betting on a dreary
00:21:20Wednesday afternoon.
00:21:21And yeah, it was a pure glitch on the FanDuel website, not through TVG.
00:21:26Apparently, the person that spotted it put some screenshots up and word got out like,
00:21:31keep it yourself, dude.
00:21:32I mean, why are you screenshotting it?
00:21:35Just do it.
00:21:36What happened was, I think it was one of the biggest alerts was a seven horse field.
00:21:42And he did a 10 cent Superfecta box that should have been $84 and they charged him 10 cents.
00:21:49He just kept going and going and going and screaming, hey, look at me, look at me.
00:21:53I'm like, no, keep the trap shut.
00:21:55Keep the money.
00:21:56I would have just milked it for all I could get.
00:21:58Sorry, FanDuel.
00:21:59But yeah, they managed to find the glitch and happy Christmas to the lucky people that
00:22:06spotted it and got rewarded.
00:22:09When people discovered that glitch, that you could bet as many combinations as you wanted
00:22:15on any wager and you would still only be charged 50 cents or a dollar or two dollars
00:22:20or the base wager as if you were only playing one combination.
00:22:23I mean, they really tried to take advantage.
00:22:25And what's interesting to me going forward is the recourse, if any, that FanDuel has
00:22:31against these bettors, right?
00:22:34I mean, they froze their accounts and they can't deduct money.
00:22:39They can't withdraw money from their accounts.
00:22:42But if there's any other recourse, did they break a law?
00:22:45I mean, they went online, they made a bet.
00:22:48It's not their fault that FanDuel only charged them 50 cents or a dollar.
00:22:52But it's going to be interesting to see the shakeout of all this legally as far as FanDuel
00:22:58is concerned.
00:22:59Yeah, we can see some lawsuits coming out of this, no doubt.
00:23:03Bobby Ussery passed away last week, and he's as old as we all are and not quite Zoe, but
00:23:09me and Randy.
00:23:10He was even a little bit before my time.
00:23:12But he was of that era, and I think he got a little bit overshadowed by Shoemaker and
00:23:17Hartack.
00:23:18But he was definitely a Hall of Fame caliber rider, deservedly so.
00:23:22He won the 67 Kentucky Derby with Proud Clarion and was the jockey board dancer's image in
00:23:2868, of course, who got disqualified after that.
00:23:32And there's so many kind of neat things about him.
00:23:35His first official mount ever was in the 1951 Thanksgiving Day Handicap, which he won the
00:23:44horse by the name of Reticule.
00:23:45Now, it turns out that that's a little bit of misleading because apparently he had been
00:23:50riding at Tracks Randy and Zoe in Texas back when they didn't have legalized parimutuel
00:23:57wagering and ridden quite a bit of winners there.
00:24:00And of course, he's known for that unique riding style that he picked off at Aqueduct
00:24:06sometimes, Ussery's Alley, where he'd take horses to the outside, almost outside rail
00:24:11of the track on the turn and then make a beeline down for the rail, essentially because,
00:24:16remember, the tracks are banked.
00:24:18So that he figured out that for a period of time, even though he would be losing ground
00:24:23being wide, he would actually be going downhill.
00:24:27It was a very unique thing.
00:24:28And the old timers back at Aqueduct always used to talk about Ussery's Alley, but one
00:24:33of the top jockeys of his era, and he will be missed.
00:24:3788 years old.
00:24:38And yeah, Ussery's Alley, the crown of the racetrack.
00:24:41And then he would just dip down.
00:24:43I think I managed to find a video of it.
00:24:45It was pretty cool.
00:24:46I first met him probably six years ago at the Pegasus World Cup.
00:24:51I was on the backside running around doing interviews.
00:24:53It was when California Chrome and Arrogate were there.
00:24:56And I see this guy walking around with these bright yellow headphones on his head with
00:25:03aerials sticking up.
00:25:04He's in shorts.
00:25:05He's in a Hawaiian shirt, big old belly on him.
00:25:09And he's got like four rings on each.
00:25:11I'm like, who is this guy?
00:25:14So he came over and I started talking to him.
00:25:16He goes, I'm Bobby Ussery.
00:25:18I won two Kentucky derbies.
00:25:20And what a fantastic fellow he was, full of stories, full of life.
00:25:26He lived down there in South Florida and would walk the backside.
00:25:29He said, I can walk on the beach every day if I wanted to, but I love the horses.
00:25:34I love the backside.
00:25:35So he would go on his walk with his headphones on and walk the backside at Goldstream Park.
00:25:41Really, truly fantastic guy.
00:25:45So with him saying, I won two Kentucky derbies, did you take that to mean that in his mind,
00:25:51he won two Kentucky derbies and that he won the race with Dancer's Image and the Kentucky
00:25:57Horse Racing Commission and the Courts Be Damned?
00:25:59Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:00I didn't even honestly realize until I left him.
00:26:03He showed me the rings.
00:26:04I interviewed him and he's wearing his Kentucky Derby.
00:26:07He wouldn't give it back.
00:26:08The Dancer's Image won.
00:26:09He kept the trophy, kept the ring after the positive.
00:26:12He said, I won the race.
00:26:13That's their fault.
00:26:14They got DQ'd.
00:26:16So, yeah.
00:26:17Yeah, when Dancer's Image won the race, the trainer, the owner trainer, Peter Fuller,
00:26:24the owner, Jockey Bobby O'Shree, got their trophies right away in the Winner's Circle
00:26:29celebration and all that.
00:26:30And then it was two days later that Dancer's Image tested positive for Butte.
00:26:36During that two-day period, owner Peter Fuller from Boston had sent his trophy back to Churchill
00:26:42Downs to be engraved and Churchill Downs kept it and wouldn't give it back because
00:26:46the test came back positive.
00:26:48O'Shree had kept his trophy.
00:26:50And when he heard what happened to Peter Fuller's trophy, he said, I'm not giving my trophy
00:26:55back.
00:26:56He said, as far as I'm concerned, when that official light went up on the tote board and
00:27:00people started getting paid, I won the Kentucky Derby on Dancer's Image.
00:27:04It would have been his second Derby win in a row the year before, as you pointed out,
00:27:08Bill, was Proud Clarion.
00:27:11And he got the mound just two days before the race in some unusual circumstances.
00:27:16The horse was given very little chance.
00:27:18The trainer, Lloyd Boo Gentry, said, I wouldn't have bet on the horse.
00:27:22He was 30-1 and yet O'Shree beat Damascus and some other top horses in there to pull
00:27:28the big upset.
00:27:29When Zoe said she met Bobby O'Shree on the backside at Gulfstream Park, I thought she
00:27:34was going to say she met him at Starbucks at Gulfstream Park because that's where I
00:27:38met him.
00:27:39That's where Bobby O'Shree would hold court every morning in Hallandale at that Starbucks
00:27:45in the shopping center right across the street from Gulfstream Park.
00:27:48He'd sit out there on the patio in his chair and he'd have a bunch of his cronies all
00:27:52around and they'd all be telling stories.
00:27:55He was quite the quite the outgoing, interesting guy.
00:27:59The TDN Writer's Room brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:28:03We may have another Pennsylvania-bred star in the making.
00:28:06It's two-year-old filly Aoife's Magic, who is now a perfect three-for-three after
00:28:11winning last Wednesday at Parks in an allowance by more than six lengths.
00:28:15She had broken her maiden by 10 lengths and then came back two weeks after that to win
00:28:19the implied stakes by four-and-a-quarter lengths.
00:28:22She is by Pennsylvania's own Smartie Jones.
00:28:25Meanwhile, the card for this Wednesday night at Penn National features three stakes races.
00:28:30The Shamrock Stakes for fillies and mares, Pennsylvania-bred.
00:28:33And then next Tuesday, Parks features the Pennsylvania-bred Nursery Stakes for two-year-olds.
00:28:38Both those races worth $100,000 and don't forget the last leg of that million-dollar
00:28:43two-year-old PA-sired, PA-bred stallion series.
00:28:46December 27th, two $200,000 races at a mile and 70 yards.
00:28:51Colts and fillies.
00:28:52Check the pabred.com website to make sure your two-year-old is nominated or you can
00:28:59just email at info at pabred.com.
00:29:07PA-bred, I think we've built a brand at this point.
00:29:11The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:29:19Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:29:23Caravelle in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
00:29:26Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state-bred program in the country, bar none.
00:29:31The best Breeders' Awards and Stallion Awards in the country.
00:29:35The TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by The Green Group, a tax accounting and advisory
00:29:40firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry and designed to save you money on your taxes.
00:29:46And we welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week.
00:29:49It's Jimmy Jerkins.
00:29:50You, of course, remember him from as many years as one of the top trainers on the New York
00:29:53Circuit and recently, and it was not his first choice, and we'll get into that.
00:29:58He moved his base of operation.
00:30:00He moved to Saudi Arabia to accept a job as a private trainer there.
00:30:04Welcome, Jimmy.
00:30:05Now, Jimmy, I interviewed you back in the summer when you'd just gotten there and you
00:30:10hadn't won a race yet and you frankly seemed pretty discouraged.
00:30:14But lo and behold, you look at your record now.
00:30:16I believe this is up to date.
00:30:18You've won 12 races out of 60 starters.
00:30:21That's a 20% eclipse since October 28th.
00:30:24You've won six races.
00:30:26What's been the difference?
00:30:27Why are you now getting to the winner's circle?
00:30:30It's hard to say, but Tyfe's track is so deep and slow.
00:30:33I think they needed a run over it, to be honest with you.
00:30:37And most of the horses ran back in Tyfe better, each succeeding start.
00:30:44And they weren't overrun.
00:30:46They weren't over-raced in Tyfe like some of the horses are.
00:30:49And we came home to Riyadh with some fresh horses and they popped right away.
00:30:54So, Jimmy, we all know over here there are differences between Saratoga and Belmont and
00:31:01Saratoga and Monmouth.
00:31:02My God, the differences between New York and Saudi Arabia have got to be just absolutely
00:31:07immense.
00:31:09What are the biggest differences in your profession, in doing what you do, where you are now
00:31:15compared to what it was like in New York?
00:31:17Well, like you said, though, the track condition mostly.
00:31:21The track here in Riyadh is beautiful.
00:31:24It's got a great bounce to it.
00:31:25And I'm not really sure of the composition of it, but it really has a nice bounce to
00:31:32it.
00:31:32It's much, much faster in the mornings, though, than it is in the afternoon races and night
00:31:37races.
00:31:37So you've got to be kind of tricky there.
00:31:39A horse might fool you with his works in the morning and then in the afternoon still get
00:31:44tired, but it is much different for some reason.
00:31:47I guess from drying out, I guess from drying out from the sun all day has something to
00:31:51do with it.
00:31:52But the horses are, I mean, the horses I have, I have nice horses.
00:31:58They're tough.
00:32:00They've, most of them hold up to, they love to train and, you know, they're quality horses
00:32:06and they're starting to, they're starting to round to form and, you know, seem to be
00:32:11benefiting from training hard.
00:32:13And you don't see much, most of the style here is to run, run, run.
00:32:18I see a lot of, you see the same horses running every week.
00:32:22And we took a kind of a different approach.
00:32:25We kind of wanted to see what it would be like to send kind of a fresher horse over
00:32:30there.
00:32:31I've been here a little over five months, like five and a half months, and I think I
00:32:35only have one horse that's run, that's run four times.
00:32:39So, you know, we're trying to, we're trying to, well, I'm trying to meet it out a little
00:32:45bit and even it out, the starts, so they stay a little fresher and they get, they get
00:32:49stronger instead of, instead of getting knocked out.
00:32:52But I'm, I get some resistance.
00:32:54They want to, the Prince's men want to run a little more sometimes than I do.
00:33:00And I, you know, sometimes I talk them out of it and then other times I don't.
00:33:04It all depends on the situation.
00:33:06But we all get along great and it's, Saoud and Saad have been great to me and, and my
00:33:13help is at the barn is just second to none.
00:33:16I just, it's so great to just come in and everybody be so loyal.
00:33:19I just, you know, they were a little skeptical about a lot of different methods and they,
00:33:24they didn't say anything, but I could tell the riders and everything were, were like,
00:33:28well, what the hell is he doing?
00:33:29You know, but they're all on board now and everything's work, everything's working out
00:33:34good.
00:33:35So just, just hope it continues.
00:33:37So the help are all locals?
00:33:39Yeah, they're, well, the riders are, the riders are Saudi and the grooms are, are mixed.
00:33:45They're Ethiopians, Moroccans and Indians and Pakistanis and, you know, and they're,
00:33:54they're all, they're all there to work and they work seven days a week and they do a
00:33:59great job and they got to walk, they got to walk their horses to the track every day.
00:34:03It's good 20, 25 minutes away.
00:34:06So, uh, and, uh, there's two horses per groom and they, there's no, there's no such thing
00:34:12as a hot walker here.
00:34:14If I see a guy having trouble, uh, you know, washing his horse or managing his horse, when
00:34:18he takes the tack off him, I'll run over there and hold them with, you know, when you get
00:34:22a nasty one, but, uh, they don't really, they kind of frown on it.
00:34:25They kind of want you to leave them alone with their horses.
00:34:28And then most of the time it works out well.
00:34:29Like I, I grabbed the horse the other day and he, he bit me and then kicked him.
00:34:33So I said, you know, you're on your own here.
00:34:35So it's, it's, it's, it's different.
00:34:40It's different that way, but they, they love their horses.
00:34:42I've never seen one get mad at one.
00:34:44It's unbelievable.
00:34:45And I could see it.
00:34:46I could see a lot of instances where you, you know, boy, this, this, this guy needs
00:34:51a, this guy needs, needs a, maybe a little kick in the belly maybe, but they never, they
00:34:55never do it.
00:34:56It's great to see.
00:34:57They really, they love the horses and they, they love the job and, uh, I'm very happy
00:35:02with it.
00:35:03So Jimmy, great to see you.
00:35:05What, what have been the biggest challenges for you when you first went over there to
00:35:09have to adapt to?
00:35:10I mean, climate, language, meters, as opposed to furlongs.
00:35:15I mean, I'm drinking a cup of tea.
00:35:17Show us what you're drinking right now.
00:35:21What are we drinking there, Jimmy?
00:35:23Non-alcoholic red wine.
00:35:25Yeah, well, that's, that's, that's, there you are.
00:35:28But, but yeah, like you said, the language barrier was tough and, uh, just, just learning
00:35:36the horses basically.
00:35:37I didn't, I was, I was kind of, I was kind of upset with the amount of information I
00:35:42got when I got here.
00:35:44You know, you don't have past performances to look up.
00:35:46You don't have, even when you run in a race, you don't know who the speed of the race is
00:35:50unless you remember from last time.
00:35:52It's not, uh, there isn't any, there isn't really any documentation of, of what's going
00:35:57on.
00:35:57So it's, I did, like I said, now, now I know a lot of the horses by memory and if they
00:36:02have speed or not.
00:36:03So, uh, a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot of pace setters are used here for that reason, because
00:36:10well, we want to, we want to ensure a decent pace for our other horse.
00:36:15And sometimes you say, well, there's gotta be, there's gotta be a sufficient pace in
00:36:19here.
00:36:19I don't think that's necessary.
00:36:20You know, we go back and forth and make a decision, but, uh, that, that's the thing
00:36:25that took me a while to get going was the lack of information.
00:36:28And I couldn't really, I couldn't really gauge the horses, uh, good enough to, to, to
00:36:33know where they, to know where they should run.
00:36:36There's a, there's a rating system here.
00:36:38Uh, there's no one other than two of the ends, three of the ends dropping a horse down.
00:36:41There's none of that.
00:36:42You, um, they drop your horse down.
00:36:45Let's put it that way.
00:36:46If your horse runs bad a couple of times, his rating will drop.
00:36:49And then you look for a race with a, with a ratings lower, but that takes a good while.
00:36:53And, you know, of course no one wants to do that.
00:36:56So you don't have to worry about your owner wanting to cash a bet, Jimmy.
00:37:00No, no, unless they, uh, unless there's something going on on the side.
00:37:05I don't know, but, uh, it's, it's, that's, that's strange too.
00:37:08I mean, you just could just go over there and the races is there's people at the races
00:37:12and it's, uh, you know, there's no, no hustle and bustle of who's betting on who or nothing.
00:37:17It's just, it's just racing.
00:37:19It's, it's strange, but it's kind of good.
00:37:21And, uh, and the horses, I'll tell you, the horses are getting better and better here.
00:37:25You can't believe the pedigrees.
00:37:26You see, there's a horse.
00:37:28He hasn't been running any good, but there's a horse here by war front at a lady.
00:37:31Eli, his name is H HMS endeavor.
00:37:35And he has, he's been running terrible, but it's been, it's been all dirt.
00:37:39So I guess, I guess they're just waiting for the turf to open up.
00:37:42But, uh, but a horse just won here the other day, uh, that Brittany Russell had in the
00:37:48States by justify out of a mayor I had for Peter Blum named spark name was rebellious
00:37:54stage.
00:37:55He was bought for 200,000 by King Abdullah, King Abdul Aziz.
00:37:59Who's they call it the white stable.
00:38:01His silks are white with a red stripe and a green helmet.
00:38:05And he's very, very strong this year, especially with the, with the young horses.
00:38:09And there's a lot of, I don't know how he did, but he came up with a lot of, there's
00:38:13a lot of American pedigrees and they're, they're cleaning up here.
00:38:18Jimmy, let's go back a few years ago and you were a top New York trainer.
00:38:24You had a, you're obviously everyone knows who your father was.
00:38:27So a person that most people would describe as a genius, you were doing well winning races.
00:38:33Lo and behold, the last couple of years before you left for Saudi Arabia, you yourself admitted
00:38:39this, this, you, you weren't making a living.
00:38:41You couldn't keep your head above water.
00:38:43You were winning very few races a year.
00:38:46What happened?
00:38:47How did you go from, from the Jimmy Jerkins of maybe 1990 to the Jimmy Jerkin or 1995
00:38:54to the Jimmy Jerkins of say 2020, 2021.
00:38:58I don't know.
00:38:58It's really, it's really hard to say in that capacity, how it happened that bad.
00:39:04I mean, you know, I, I could have done things different.
00:39:08I wasn't, uh, well, the thing I think that hurt me the most was when things were really,
00:39:13really good.
00:39:14Even around the time we were, we had those couple of Travers wins back to back.
00:39:19I had a chance to expand pretty good.
00:39:21Owners came to me and I kind of, I didn't really take him and go with it.
00:39:26I didn't want to, I didn't want to get big to where I couldn't do the job that I, I'd
00:39:30like to do.
00:39:31And I think, I think in the long run that hurt me.
00:39:33I probably should have done whatever it took to get the extra horses and keep it going.
00:39:39Cause, uh, boy, I'll tell you, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a numbers game now, especially
00:39:44the way horses are.
00:39:44They're so disposable.
00:39:46And, uh, you know, you got it.
00:39:48I, now I understand why these guys have so many horses and they, you know, they, they
00:39:53spread themselves thin, you know, they might lose a good horse that they haven't seen in
00:39:57a while.
00:39:58It's that's in one of their other stables and stuff like that.
00:40:00But, uh, and that, that never, that kind of thing never appealed to me, but, you know,
00:40:05I, now looking back on it, it looks like, uh, looks like the, that's the way you have
00:40:10to look at the game.
00:40:12They get the, get the horses in the barn and that's the, that's the bottom line.
00:40:15Get the horses in the barn.
00:40:17So we've, we've talked about this periodically on this podcast, Jimmy, that horse racing
00:40:23is obviously one of the few sports where you have people that are in the hall of fame that
00:40:29are still competing actively day to day in the sport.
00:40:34But yet training horses would seem to be, uh, you would seem to have so much more of
00:40:40an advantage with experience.
00:40:43And yet you see all sorts of trainers, yourself included, who have all this experience and
00:40:50yet still struggle, uh, to get the same level of horses that someone with much, much less
00:40:56experience would have.
00:40:58Um, how frustrating was that knowing that you had all of this experience and, and it
00:41:04didn't seem to matter.
00:41:06It's incredibly frustrating.
00:41:07It's, you know, you just keeps you up at night.
00:41:10You just, uh, God, why I certainly had, I mean, I, I think I still have a 20% lifetime,
00:41:17lifetime winning record.
00:41:19And, uh, I mean, we've only had 4,200 starts lifetime and I don't think anybody, I mean,
00:41:26for the amount of starts is one of many great ones in big races that I, that, that I've
00:41:31had, but, um, I don't know.
00:41:34I really don't know the answer.
00:41:35And that's, that's why it just, it was frustrated me.
00:41:38And I just, I couldn't, uh, I've actually, I came here, me and Shirley came here in April
00:41:44to interview for the job.
00:41:45And the second I landed in Saudi Arabia and I, I looked out the window, I said, boy, this
00:41:50isn't for me.
00:41:51And, uh, the land, the landscape, it looks like, it looks, it looks like you're on the
00:41:56moon and, uh, and the people at night.
00:41:59And I, I got to admit though, I was happy with the condition of the horses and they
00:42:03would, they, they said we got good horses and I took their word for it and they looked
00:42:08apart too.
00:42:09And then, but I still got on the plane and I, I was on the plane coming home thinking
00:42:15I wasn't going to do it.
00:42:16And till I got back to my barn at Belmont and I looked down the shed row and I saw basically
00:42:21nothing.
00:42:22And I saw, I didn't see any prospects really in the near future.
00:42:26And then I decided, I sat with my wife at home and I said, you know, I'm going to go,
00:42:31I'm going to go do it.
00:42:33Well, Jimmy, it seems like success is coming to you now that you're back in Rydia.
00:42:38I know initially you said the plan was stay for a couple of years and then maybe bring
00:42:44some horses back with you back to US soil.
00:42:49What do those plans look like now?
00:42:51It seems like you're quite settled there right now, at least in Rydia.
00:42:57Yeah, I mean, I just, I, I just said for the two years because that was what my contract
00:43:01was and that's, uh, we just left it at that.
00:43:05You know, of course I didn't know the fact that things are going good makes it makes
00:43:10a big difference, of course, but things have to develop.
00:43:12We'll see how it develops till, till March.
00:43:15Well, we've got to go past there.
00:43:16I've got a two year contract.
00:43:18I'll come back next year, but it looks like there's a look like there's, there's good
00:43:21horses coming up.
00:43:22You know, we bought a lot of horses and tatter and tattersoles and, uh, you know, there isn't
00:43:27a big American influx there.
00:43:29Uh, they, they like to, they like to buy English and I don't, which I'm not, I'm not that
00:43:34familiar with the bloodlines, but, uh, I'm, I'm learning them, you know, I'm learning,
00:43:39I'm learning the, who's the sprinter types are and who the distance horses are.
00:43:43And, you know, you just got to hope, you know, they're, but they're all, they all got, uh,
00:43:47they're all running on turf.
00:43:48So, you know, you just got to, when they come here, you just got to hope they take to the
00:43:52dirt.
00:43:53That's the biggest thing.
00:43:54So we've had a couple that just didn't pan out.
00:43:57Are you starting to enjoy it now?
00:43:59Now that you have your feet underneath you, Shirley's with you.
00:44:03Really, it seems like a little bit more of a community-based bit, bit more fun over there.
00:44:08Is it starting to be fun, Jimmy?
00:44:10Yes.
00:44:10Yeah, it is.
00:44:11And it's, it's, it's a lot more fun in Riyadh types of really it's, it's, uh, off the beaten
00:44:15path.
00:44:16It's, it's nice.
00:44:17The weather's very nice.
00:44:18It's in the mountains and, uh, it's, it's so hot in, in Riyadh during August that you,
00:44:24it's, you can't, it's unbearable.
00:44:26You can't, you can't have racing here.
00:44:29And in type, it gets very hot in the, in the, in the middle of the day, but as soon as the
00:44:33sun goes down, it's, it's very pleasant.
00:44:35And, uh, the weather's the very weather's very pleasant, but it's, it's, it's an old,
00:44:40it's an old, uh, it's an old town.
00:44:42It's kind of set in its ways.
00:44:44It's a lot stricter, uh, in its ways than, than Riyadh is.
00:44:48And it's, it's basically for me, it's basically all horses and that's it, you know, which is,
00:44:54which is okay.
00:44:55I mean, go to bed and get something to eat, go to bed and get up and take care of the
00:44:59horses is pretty much what type was like, but it's not much different than Riyadh to be
00:45:03honest with you, but at least if you want to do something, you can, you know,
00:45:07Jimmy, how many horses do you have?
00:45:09And do you have any that we'll see on the Saudi cup card?
00:45:13We have about 55 and we should have quite a few in the, uh, uh, uh, Saudi cup days.
00:45:19You know, we're, we, we're gonna, uh, we have, we have a lot of open horses and a lot of
00:45:25cup cup style horses.
00:45:27Um, like I said, a lot of them are, a lot of them are up in age.
00:45:31We have some that have, uh, that are like five and six and seven, you know, we're a
00:45:37little light on the three-year-olds this year.
00:45:38We wasn't by, wasn't by design, but it's, uh, it's just, unfortunately they had to buy
00:45:44a couple of three-year-olds at Tattersalls, uh, one by Dubai, who I haven't run yet.
00:45:49His name is Tabaretta, who I really, really like.
00:45:52And there's a race for straight three-year-olds, which is, you don't see much in the program
00:45:56this late in the year.
00:45:57One for straight three-year-olds going 1600 meters in another three weeks that I'm looking
00:46:02to run them in and then hope he runs big and takes off from there.
00:46:05But, uh, there's a lot of very useful horses and there's a, we got a lot of horses that
00:46:09are really, really rounded into form.
00:46:12So with any luck we should have, we should be busy Saudi week.
00:46:16Well, Jimmy, if you really like one of your horses on Saudi week and you want to get down,
00:46:20uh, just get in touch with us and we will figure out how to get a bed down for you.
00:46:24All right.
00:46:25Great.
00:46:26Thanks.
00:46:26I appreciate it.
00:46:28Well, Jimmy, I want to thank you so much for your time.
00:46:30It's good to see that big smile on your faces.
00:46:32Obviously, uh, you've figured Saudi Arabia and racing out and, uh, the Jimmy Jerkins
00:46:38that we know is that steady 20% trainer.
00:46:41Uh, it looks like he's back in Saudi Arabia.
00:46:43Thanks so much for spending some time with us here on the, uh, TDN Writer's Room podcast
00:46:47and continued success in Saudi Arabia.
00:46:50I appreciate it.
00:46:51Bill and everybody else.
00:46:52It was nice to be on.
00:46:53Nice to see some familiar faces.
00:46:56Does Jimmy Jerkins have to file an income tax return in Saudi Arabia?
00:46:59I think he probably does.
00:47:02So as good, you know, the reach of the United States government goes everywhere.
00:47:05So as the green group guest of the week, Jimmy will receive a free one hour tax consultation
00:47:11with Lynn green and the green group for more information on how the green group can save
00:47:15you taxes.
00:47:16Even if you may happen to be living in Saudi Arabia right now, visit www.greencoat.com.
00:47:22Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:47:25The green group can help.
00:47:27There's a reason the most successful owners breeders and horsemen select the green group
00:47:31as their tax advisors.
00:47:33They save you money and share successful strategies over the past 40 years.
00:47:38The green group founder, Len green has owned and bred some of the best race horses in the
00:47:43history of the sport.
00:47:44Like eclipse award-winning champions, Jay walk and wonder wheel.
00:47:48His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious
00:47:53honors.
00:47:54Len green's in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting edge tax saving strategies
00:48:00has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the green group, the top rated
00:48:04accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business for a confidential and complimentary
00:48:09consultation.
00:48:10Contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greencoat.com.
00:48:19The green group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:48:23Quality road, proving lanes ends, tried and true stallion making tradition.
00:48:28A tradition that leads to success for our partners and our stallions.
00:48:32Quality road has sired multiple eclipse award and grade one winners, including champion
00:48:37two-year-old Colt Cornish, champion two-year-old Philly, Caledonia road, champion three-year-old
00:48:43Philly, Abel Tasman and multiple grade one winner city of light.
00:48:47He's a leader of his generation.
00:48:49Quality road, a stallion that stands above the rest.
00:48:54The TDN writer's room is brought to you by lanes end.
00:48:57The lanes end stallion of the week is quality road.
00:49:00The sire of the exciting three-year-old integration.
00:49:03I told you, we'd be talking about him a lot today.
00:49:06He was dominant in winning Saturday's grade two hill print stakes at aqueduct.
00:49:11Integration is now three for three, including a win in the grade three Virginia Derby.
00:49:17And may point next to the Pegasus world cup turf in January.
00:49:22According to his trainer, Shug McGahee.
00:49:24Quality road is the sire of 15 grade one winners and three champions.
00:49:30He stands for a mere 200,000 at lanes end.
00:49:34And quality roads, initial trainer, Jimmy Jerkins.
00:49:39Yes.
00:49:39Yes.
00:49:40Or he was taken away from him and I'm sure something that didn't make me too happy
00:49:45and given to Todd Pletcher.
00:49:47Okay.
00:49:47So it's the Thanksgiving weekend.
00:49:49A lot of big races being run.
00:49:50We've got the PPS in for some of them.
00:49:52I think the ones that we should focus in on were some of the best races are at Churchill.
00:49:57We're on Friday.
00:49:59They had the Mrs.
00:50:00And the big race on the card is the Clark stakes.
00:50:03Recently downgraded to a two 600,000.
00:50:07It looks to me like the kind of race where you don't have any stars in here right now.
00:50:13But you got a couple of horses that really could, I think, make and start making a name
00:50:17for themselves.
00:50:17And, you know, as we're looking forward to who's going to be the better horses of 2024
00:50:22might be somebody to come out of this race.
00:50:24First mission will won the Lexington stakes and then had a long layoff for Brad Cox came
00:50:29back in October at Keeneland and won on allowance race there.
00:50:32It looks like he'll be the favorite gasoline for Todd Pletcher.
00:50:37This will be his stakes debut.
00:50:38But his buyer numbers have really been moving up.
00:50:40He ran a 99 last time out, you know, horses that fit into that kind of category.
00:50:47I'll go with first for Brad Cox.
00:50:50You also have straight arrow who are New York ready won the Empire Classic.
00:50:54So be his first try against open company stakes runner.
00:50:58Decent race.
00:50:59No one that really jumps off the page, Zoe.
00:51:01But I think maybe we'll have someone out of this race.
00:51:03We might be talking about next week.
00:51:05Yeah, I mean, first mission is the obvious one that jumps off the page.
00:51:09He's a three year old here.
00:51:10He's won three of four lifetime starts for trainer Brad Cox.
00:51:14He'll get size is on a three race win streak.
00:51:17So why not first mission?
00:51:18But I'm rather partial to straight arrow, especially for the fact that he'll get
00:51:22Florent Giroux should have a front running trip up there.
00:51:25And Mike Dini is probably one of the most underrated horsemen that you'll have out there.
00:51:31He gets his horses.
00:51:32He doesn't have a big stable.
00:51:34He ships them round and he wins.
00:51:36More importantly, just a good guy and a great horseman.
00:51:39So rooting on Mike Dini in straight arrow.
00:51:43I'm going to take a shot with the horse that that Bill mentioned from the Pletcher Barn
00:51:47making a stakes debut gasoline.
00:51:49I mean, I know you look at some of these horses like first mission and others who have all
00:51:53sorts of graded stakes experience and gasolines run 11 times, and this will be his very first
00:51:58stakes effort.
00:51:58But it looks to me like in his last couple of races, they've performed a little bit of
00:52:04a strategic change in the way gasoline is being ridden.
00:52:08He'd been up on the pace in most of his recent races and then decided to take him back a
00:52:13little bit.
00:52:13He's two for two with that new running style, including a big five length win last time
00:52:18over giant game with that 99 buyer.
00:52:21So five to one in the morning line.
00:52:23Top buyer speed figure.
00:52:24That's good enough for me.
00:52:25I'll take I'll take gasoline in that spot.
00:52:29Saturday at Churchill, is that all true?
00:52:31This is a fun card.
00:52:32I look forward to this every year that all two year old racing the entire card, including
00:52:37three stakes.
00:52:39And I want to start off with the one, the Ed Brown stakes at six and a half furlongs.
00:52:44Normally, again, this is probably a race we wouldn't spend much time on, but we have the
00:52:48Churchill Downs version of Nysos in here, the horse that we were talked about at the
00:52:52beginning of the show.
00:52:53And that's Booth trained by Steve Asmussen, broke his maiden by five and three quarter
00:52:58lengths and got a 96 buyer.
00:53:01Hasn't that was on October 7th at Keeneland comes back here at six and a half furlongs.
00:53:06Can he pull a nice house and go two for two and run another high 90s buyer?
00:53:11Certainly would seem to be within the realm of possibility.
00:53:14One difference, if you're going to compare these two horses, first of all, Booth hasn't
00:53:19won that second race yet, but he's by Mitoli.
00:53:22So there would be legitimate questions about whether or not his career is going to be as
00:53:28a sprinter.
00:53:28Nothing wrong with that.
00:53:29Steve Asmussen has won a ton of money for his owners with some very fast sprinters.
00:53:35Maybe Booth will be one of his three year old stars of next year.
00:53:38Oh, I don't see why not.
00:53:39Mitoli's had all kinds of runners.
00:53:41In fact, they've been running very well long as well, which is surprising.
00:53:46They've got a good bit of leg on him.
00:53:47This one costs 225,000.
00:53:50If anyone can stretch a horse by Mitoli out, it's going to be the trainer of Mitoli.
00:53:55And that's Steve Asmussen.
00:53:56He was terrific breaking his maiden there at Keeneland.
00:53:59Nash came back to win.
00:54:01He gets a good advantageous draw on the outside.
00:54:04And hey, he already beat 10 others in his maiden race.
00:54:07He was drawn six of 11 and he drew off and won like a good thing.
00:54:11It's definitely his race to lose.
00:54:14On Sunday, in a maiden race at Churchill Downs, a six furlong maiden race,
00:54:20a TDN rising star was unveiled, which happened to be a horse called Carbone,
00:54:27who is trained by Steve Asmussen, owned by the same ownership,
00:54:31Bill and Corinne Highland Crowe, and a son of Mitoli.
00:54:34So yeah, Mitoli and Asmussen have really been clicking on all cylinders here lately.
00:54:39So yeah, we'll see if it continues.
00:54:43All right, the two graded stakes races on the card,
00:54:46one for Phillies, the Goldenrod, that's the 10th race.
00:54:49This race came out pretty tough.
00:54:50Again, there's some horses in here that need to move up
00:54:54and prove that they can win at the next level.
00:54:56Central Avenue was second behind Just FYI in the frisette.
00:55:00Nothing wrong with that, knowing that Just FYI, of course,
00:55:02came back to win the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Phillies.
00:55:05West Sunset is coming out of a big blowout win in the Rags to Riches stakes,
00:55:10owned by Gary and Mary West, trained by Brad Cox by West Coast, a homebred.
00:55:15Horse I like, though, is Thorpedo Anna, trained by Ken McPeak.
00:55:22See, Randy is nodding in agreement.
00:55:25This horse, last time out, I don't know who she beat,
00:55:28but she just crushed the horses in that race.
00:55:31Allowance race at Churchill on November 10th,
00:55:33coming back for modern standards a little bit quick in 15 days.
00:55:37That was a huge win.
00:55:38And it goes a little bit unnoticed and doesn't quite get the credit he deserves.
00:55:43This horse cost $40,000 at the sales.
00:55:45Kenny McPeak has turned a lot of horses that cost under six figures into big time stars.
00:55:52Is this another one?
00:55:53We'll find out on Saturday at Churchill, but this is a good race.
00:55:58I'm looking forward to it.
00:55:58We're going to talk about the Kentucky Jockey Club afterwards.
00:56:02The Philly race is the best race of the day.
00:56:03It's a much better race than the Colt race.
00:56:05Well, I think you hit the big three on the head there.
00:56:08Central Avenue, West Sunset, and Thorpedo Anna.
00:56:11And Kenny McPeak gets plenty of praise for picking out
00:56:14cheaper horses and winning with them.
00:56:16He does a very good job, indeed.
00:56:18This Philly didn't get the best of trips last time,
00:56:20and she just ran off and hid, winning by nine under Hernandez,
00:56:24who rides back.
00:56:25She's drawn on the outside.
00:56:27Central Avenue will be flying under the radar just a little bit.
00:56:31She got a horrible trip last time against just FYI in the Grade 1 Frisette.
00:56:37So don't discount her, but those are definitely the top three that you need.
00:56:41Yeah, no fig for Central Avenue.
00:56:44So I'm tossing Central Avenue.
00:56:47West Sunset, yeah.
00:56:48I mean, she got a rags to riches win by six and three quarters lengths,
00:56:52trained by Brad Cox.
00:56:53But it was on a sloppy racetrack, an uncontested early lead
00:56:57that she's probably not going to get here.
00:56:59That's the kind of horse that you typically try to take a shot against if you're betting.
00:57:05So I like an exacting here.
00:57:06I like Thorpedo Anna, Bill's horse, with a horse called Intricate
00:57:10from the number two post position, Brendan Walsh, son of Gunrunner.
00:57:15Looked visually very impressive in his maiden win,
00:57:20tracking a very slow pace at a mile and a sixteenth at Keeneland.
00:57:23A lot of times if they're going a really slow pace,
00:57:26it's hard to visually make a huge move into very slow fractions as they're speeding up.
00:57:32But this horse did it and was very eye-catching, that move that he made.
00:57:36Drew off and won nicely.
00:57:37So that's my golden rod exacted, Bill.
00:57:41Thorpedo Anna and Intricate.
00:57:43Back and forth, back and forth.
00:57:46There you go.
00:57:46The Kentucky Jockey Club Super Saver won this in 2009.
00:57:50Went on to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:57:52Like I said, not the strongest group.
00:57:56And maybe next week on the West Point segment where we talk about their success,
00:58:01we might be talking about a horse by the name of Stretch Ride,
00:58:05trained by Dale Romans.
00:58:06It's two for two.
00:58:07Won at Keeneland last time out in a lounge race with an 87 buyer.
00:58:10A clear favorite.
00:58:11And I hate to say this.
00:58:12Somebody help me please with the pronunciation of the rider's last name.
00:58:16Martin Quan-Chuan.
00:58:19Anybody?
00:58:19Anybody?
00:58:20C-H-U-A-N.
00:58:22He's winning 24% of the meet, but he's only had 20 winners on the year.
00:58:26So and this horse originally sold for $5,000,
00:58:31but I believe was then pinhooked and sold overseas.
00:58:33If I'm correct about that, we'll have to.
00:58:36Yeah, this is definitely the horse that I think was sold at one of the European sales
00:58:41after the $5,000 sale at Fasig-Tipton in October.
00:58:44But it originally sold for $5,000 and would be the favorite in a grade two for $400,000.
00:58:50How about Awesome Road, too, from Brad Cox?
00:58:53Looked very good winning his maiden.
00:58:55I have no idea what happened to him in the Breeders Futurity where he ran up the track.
00:58:59If you can draw a line through that race, he certainly got a chance, Zoe.
00:59:04Oh yeah, he definitely got a shot for Brad Cox there.
00:59:09Definitely put a line through that.
00:59:10I'm really not sure what happened that day.
00:59:14We all know Locke's was much the best in there, but I'm with you.
00:59:18And perhaps this could be Dal Roman's coming out party.
00:59:21He's been quiet of late, but every so often he pops up with a really, really good horse indeed.
00:59:27So this is kind of his MO.
00:59:30Horse is perfect two for two, wasn't favored last time,
00:59:33but likely will be favored off of that big 87 buyer speed figure.
00:59:37So he most certainly is the one to beat in here.
00:59:41You guys are both just drawing a line through that last race of Awesome Road.
00:59:45Just draw a line through it.
00:59:48I hate it when trainers say that.
00:59:50I'm going to draw a line through that as if it never happened, right?
00:59:56I think stretch rides are the worst to beat.
00:59:57But the interesting thing about Awesome Road is that we did the Breeders Futurity on NBC
01:00:03and we talked to Brad Cox before the race.
01:00:07Of course, he had Timberlake, both of them in Kentucky, and sent Timberlake to New York
01:00:12because he thought he would be a better one turn horse to run in the Champaign
01:00:16and kept Awesome Road to run two turns in the Breeders Futurity at Keeneland.
01:00:21And Brad, it was very high on Awesome Road.
01:00:25I asked him point blank, I said, how good is Awesome Road?
01:00:27He said, very good.
01:00:29So I thought, wow.
01:00:30And so he's been down to three to one in the Breeders Futurity and never lifts his feet.
01:00:35And he runs terribly.
01:00:37I didn't see any excuses in the running.
01:00:41Apologies.
01:00:42I meant to reach out to Brad and ask him if the horse did come up with any excuses,
01:00:46but I never quite got around to that.
01:00:48If he does have a legitimate excuse for that last race, or if he got up on the wrong side
01:00:53of the stall and you really can just draw a line through it as if it never, ever happened,
01:00:57then he may be the best horse in the race.
01:00:59But in the meantime, I think stretch ride is the worst to beat.
01:01:04The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:01:08This week's Work of the Week is Hajazi.
01:01:11He cost 3.55 million as a two-year-old, and he came back to work four followings in 49-4
01:01:19for Bob Baffert on Friday.
01:01:20Now, he took the summer off.
01:01:22He came back with a five and a half length win in a Santa Anita Allowance Race on November 3rd,
01:01:28and now heads for the Malibu Stakes on opening day, December the 26th at Santa Anita,
01:01:34where his main competition will actually be from his own stable.
01:01:38Baffert also plans to run Speedboat Beach and Fort Bragg,
01:01:42an impressive allowance winner at Del Mar this weekend.
01:01:46We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:01:58So
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01:02:44West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:02:47Visit westpointtb.com
01:02:51The TDN Writer's Room brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:55Zoe called it earlier in the program.
01:02:57Bill called it as well.
01:02:58We were going to be talking a lot about integration,
01:03:02because West Point Thoroughbreds is the co-owner of integration,
01:03:06who we've already told you and showed you.
01:03:09Wrapped up his three-year-old season in a big way with that one in the Hillprint Stakes,
01:03:13now a perfect three for three,
01:03:14and gave the West Point partners plenty of reason to be excited for what's to come in 2024,
01:03:19as he's being tentatively pointed, if all goes well between now and then,
01:03:23by West Point and Shug McGahee for the Jan 27 Pegasus World Cup Turf.
01:03:28Between now and then, there is plenty left on the table for West Point in 2023,
01:03:33more than a dozen horses scheduled to run over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend,
01:03:37most of them at Churchill Downs, Giant Game in the Clark,
01:03:41Stretch Ride, who Bill just pointed out, running in the Kentucky Jockey Club,
01:03:45and the combo of Northern Invader and Ohana Honor in the Commonwealth Turf.
01:03:51Are you interested in joining a West Point partnership,
01:03:53which can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie?
01:03:56To learn more, visit westpointtb.com.
01:04:09All right, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:04:11I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabin,
01:04:14our Green Group Guests of the Week, Jimmy Jerkins,
01:04:16our producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca,
01:04:19our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:04:22Have a great Thanksgiving, everybody.
01:04:23We'll talk to you next week.