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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room, my name is Bill Finley, I'm a correspondent
00:00:32for the Thoroughbred Daily News, also co-host of the Down the Stretch radio show with Dave
00:00:36Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:38Hi, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, fresh off the Preakness and fresh off an explanation
00:00:45from Bill Finley off camera here about dude wipes.
00:00:49As someone who was on the telecast and doesn't get to see the commercials, I had no idea
00:00:53what the heck anybody was talking about, what is a dude wipe, but now I know, thank you.
00:00:58Well, next week, we're going to give you a hat, we're going to get one of those hats
00:01:02that says dude wipes, and we'll just send it to you.
00:01:06I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing here, I'm at the top of the Fasig-Tipton Pavilion in
00:01:11Timonium, they're about to start the sale in about 10 minutes, so if you can't hear
00:01:15me, there will be a good reason why not.
00:01:19Maybe Bill can send me part of his supply of dude wipes and I can try them out and see
00:01:23what it's all about.
00:01:25The dude wipes are in the mail, trust me.
00:01:28Isn't that a bit sexist though, dude wipes?
00:01:31Yeah, why couldn't a female use them too?
00:01:35I'm sure that chick wipes might be next.
00:01:39That's what they'll use to advertise at the Kentucky Oaks next year, something like that.
00:01:46So, what do you want from the Preakness?
00:01:49Mainly you want to see the Derby winner win, because then they go on to the Triple Crown
00:01:52this year, would have been Saratoga and it would be fantastic, Mystic Dan ran a great
00:01:56race.
00:01:57But if you couldn't have that, and forget about the betting aspects of whether you bet
00:02:01on the winner or didn't bet on the winner, if you want a great story, my goodness, did
00:02:05we get one.
00:02:0688-year-old Wayne Lucas, who people five, six, seven years ago thought was absolutely
00:02:12finished in this business, not only is he not finished, he comes in and wins a Triple
00:02:17Crown race with Cease the Grave for my racehorse, Michael LaBerens, their CEO, will join us
00:02:22a little bit later.
00:02:25You've both known Lucas for years and years and years, but I shake my head.
00:02:32How is this guy doing this and what a great thing that he is?
00:02:35He's an inspiration for all us old guys that's still getting the job done at 88 years old.
00:02:43When Oxbow won the Preakness, people kind of thought at that point that, wow, Wayne
00:02:47Lucas is still winning a Triple Crown race, that's unbelievable.
00:02:51They thought he was on the downside and kind of washed up then, and it was a decade ago
00:02:57or plus.
00:02:59Now to see 88-and-a-half-year-old Wayne Lucas, who's not just Cease the Grave, he had a very
00:03:08good Oaklawn Park meeting, made a lot of money at Oaklawn, his entire stable has been on
00:03:13the upswing over the last 12 months and even the last couple of years.
00:03:19We've talked about it on this podcast about how, from a common sense perspective, and
00:03:25Wayne's talked about it too, you would think that the more experience you have training
00:03:30racehorses, the better off you would be as long as you maintain the energy level that's
00:03:35needed to handle a stable and the owners and things like that.
00:03:39As far as energy goes, Wayne is still at the barn at 4.30 in the morning, he still gets
00:03:43on his pony every morning at age 88, he hasn't slowed down very much in that regard.
00:03:50And he most certainly prides himself in still getting on the pony at 88.
00:03:55If it was up to him, he'd draw his last breath on that pony, I mean if it was truly up to
00:04:00him, but he really is remarkable to still be out there, he'll still be everyone to the
00:04:06barn in the morning.
00:04:08I think he was joking at the alibi breakfast here with Kenny McPeak and saying, I was there
00:04:14at 4 o'clock, and he goes, I'll just meet you there at 9, Kenny, when you get in there.
00:04:19He was just like, he's very sharp, very witty, just throwing jabs at everyone.
00:04:24And it was truly delightful to see him win and people forget that he's had a good team
00:04:29that have been with him a long time.
00:04:31Bass Nicol has been his long, long time assistant and English guy, he's been there as long as
00:04:37I've ever known.
00:04:38Miguel's been with him for years now, he drives the van, he gets on horses, he doesn't really
00:04:42get on him, does just about everything.
00:04:45It's a tight knit community in the D. Wayne barn, and I'm just delighted that he's made
00:04:50a home for himself at Oaklawn Park, where he really is revered at Oaklawn now, and that
00:04:57is going to be his winter base.
00:04:59But I mean, let's just not forget, he's the guy who changed the game.
00:05:02He's definitely the guy that changed the game.
00:05:04I can remember shipping out to Hollywood Park with the horse for Michael Dickinson to run
00:05:10in the swaps.
00:05:11I'd never been to California, and I'd seen these pictures of this white shed row with
00:05:16D. Wayne Lucas, and I remember leading him down to school in the paddock, and we had
00:05:21to walk by his barn, and I was just like, looking over my shoulder, and I'm like, so
00:05:26much white, how do they keep it all clean?
00:05:28And the stalls were banked four foot deep, and the shed rows were pristine.
00:05:33It was like another world, like something I had never seen before, and that was 1995.
00:05:38Just, I'll never forget that moment, just staring down his shed row and thinking, wow,
00:05:43this is how they do it in America.
00:05:45This is brilliant.
00:05:47A funny story about Wayne at 88, and kind of what he's like at 88, and how he doesn't
00:05:52really like to be 88, I mean, he does get on his horse in the morning, and the only
00:05:57concession to his age is that he has a little step ladder, step stool there to get on the
00:06:02horse.
00:06:04He would much rather swing himself over the back of the horse like he used to, and he
00:06:07walks with a cane now to help him, he's a little bit unsteady.
00:06:12After the preakness, apparently, I didn't witness it, I was told this by a couple of
00:06:16different people, you know, Wayne was making his way from where he watched the race to
00:06:22the infield, NBC, Kenny Rice was with him on part of that journey talking to him, but
00:06:27as he was coming down some steps, I guess someone saw an elderly 88-year-old guy, Wayne
00:06:33Lucas, and decided to try to give him some help, and held their hand out for Wayne to
00:06:37grab their hand for assistance going down the steps, and Wayne hit him with his cane.
00:06:44He was like, whap, get out of my way, I don't need your help.
00:06:51He's remarkable.
00:06:52Now, I mean, honestly, if we're talking about Wayne Lucas winning the Derby on the podcast
00:06:57five years from now, or 10 years from now, see, that's crazy, he's going to win a race
00:07:00at 98 years old, well, who thought he could do it at 88, so why not, anything is possible,
00:07:06he's obviously not going to retire, ever, you know, he'll draw his last breath on the
00:07:11back stretch of a racetrack, maybe on that pony, but let's get back to the race itself
00:07:16now, and, you know, we're all glad that Wayne won, almost everybody is, I didn't see the
00:07:21horse winning the race, I really didn't, for a lot of reasons, his buyer numbers weren't
00:07:25very good, he appeared to be better at round one turn based on the pack day mile, but what
00:07:32I didn't know, two things, that he was still improving, and that the racetrack was probably
00:07:37conducive, I don't know if it was a biased racetrack, but you get out front in the mud,
00:07:42that's usually a pretty good way of winning races, so, you know, am I shocked that he
00:07:48won?
00:07:49Not quite, but I was very surprised, I did not like him one bit, Zoey, what happened,
00:07:54why did he win the race?
00:07:56I mean, I was as shocked as anyone that he was on the lead, to be perfectly honest, I
00:08:01bet on him in the pack day mile, because there was a ton of pace in there, I'm like, this
00:08:06is a horse who needs pace to run at, and that's exactly what happened in the pack day mile,
00:08:11we come back to the preakness, and all of a sudden he's on the lead, I was like, where
00:08:15the hell did that come from?
00:08:16I don't know, Frankie was strangling his horse in the middle of the racetrack to try and
00:08:20stay off him, maybe he should have gone on as well with imagination, I don't think imagination
00:08:24is good enough, to be perfectly honest, and he's still got some growing up to do, but
00:08:29I didn't see that coming, and, you know, if Wayne Lucas is the story, how about the jockey?
00:08:35I mean, how fantastic was that for him?
00:08:38Watching horse racing in 2019, to winning a classic race in 2024, after only riding
00:08:44for a couple of years, I mean, that's terrific in and of itself, and the fact that Wayne
00:08:49had enough moxie and enough balls to leave him on the horse.
00:08:55Look, I mean, we all know Wayne, we've been around Wayne for decades, and we know that
00:08:59Wayne likes to be in these major races, I don't know if it's as much for himself as
00:09:05it is for wanting to give his owners the experience of being in these major races, and Wayne is
00:09:13certainly one who is willing to take a shot, and to run long shots in some of these major
00:09:19races, and it's paid off on occasion, as we have seen.
00:09:23They wanted to get this horse into the Kentucky Derby, they tried hard, they sent him from
00:09:28Oaklawn Park to the Jeff Ruby Stakes in hopes of getting points, and he ran pretty well,
00:09:32it was wide, he actually ran a pretty good race in the Jeff Ruby, but he still didn't
00:09:36have enough points, so they brought him back two weeks later, and ran him in the Bluegrass
00:09:41Stakes, and that didn't end well, he ran a very dull race in the Bluegrass, so because
00:09:46they didn't have enough points to get him into the Kentucky Derby, they ran him instead
00:09:51on the undercard in the Pat Day Mile, and Jerry Bailey and I went to talk to Wayne before
00:09:57that race, and Wayne said, you know, we tried to get this horse in the Kentucky Derby, but
00:10:02in hindsight, I think this horse is probably going to be better around one turn.
00:10:08And the horse wins the Pat Day Mile, and I went back to watch the race about a half hour
00:10:12ago, just to see, you know, did I miss something in the Pat Day Mile, is there something there
00:10:17that I should have seen?
00:10:19And what was interesting about that race is that after a quarter mile, he was on the lead,
00:10:23there were four horses stacked across the racetrack, and he was between horses, and
00:10:27it was a lively pace, I mean, they went 44 and change for the first half mile, and then
00:10:31when they hit the turn, he couldn't keep up, and he wasn't taken back, he dropped back,
00:10:38and at the top of the stretch, it looked like he was going into reverse, it looked like
00:10:41at one point, he might have been fifth or sixth, maybe three lengths off the pace,
00:10:45and going the wrong direction, and then suddenly, the last 3 16ths of a mile, you know, he just
00:10:51outfinished all the other horses, he finished way better than the other horses, and he finished
00:10:56the Pat Day Mile as if he wanted more distance, right, I mean, that's the look that he had
00:11:04during the last part of that race, okay.
00:11:07So now, Wayne had already told us that we thought the horse would be better around one
00:11:11turn, and then suddenly, two weeks later, we see him not only around two turns, but
00:11:15we see him running the longest distance of any race in his life, and the confusing part
00:11:20that horse players had to try to deal with, if this was a trainer who was known for being
00:11:26exceptionally conservative, let's say it was Graham Motion, okay, who runs a horse in the
00:11:31Pat Day Mile and comes back two weeks later, and runs him in the Preakness, okay, you'd
00:11:36be thinking, wow, you know, this is really out of character for Graham Motion, he's so
00:11:40conservative, he must really, really, really think this horse is going to win.
00:11:45But what throws everybody for a curve with Wayne is that he's always so willing to take
00:11:50shots that you don't know if he's running the horse in the Preakness because he's coming
00:11:55off a good race, what the heck, I'll take a chance, the owners deserve the opportunity,
00:12:00the owners deserve the fun, you know, who knows, or if, you know, if it was because
00:12:05he really, really, really thought that the horse had a great chance to win.
00:12:09The strategy was to go to the lead.
00:12:12That was the strategy in the race for Wayne with Seize the Gray beforehand, and the strategy
00:12:18for the Baffert Camp, as Bob told us, he said, I think my horse will be better with a target.
00:12:26And he was hoping that Seize the Gray would go to the lead, right?
00:12:31So you had the combination of a muddy racetrack, I mean, who knows how much that favored Seize
00:12:34the Gray, maybe he liked it more than the other horses, potentially really speed favoring.
00:12:40And the third component is they didn't think he had a chance to win.
00:12:44The competition didn't think he had a chance to win.
00:12:46So they just left him alone on the lead.
00:12:48All right, you know, Frankie DeTore, Wayne wants the lead, this is perfect, we'll let
00:12:51that gray sucker just take the lead, we won't pay any attention to him, we'll just sit,
00:12:57four paths outside of him, and we'll have him whenever we want him.
00:13:00I think the whole field thought that way, even at the top of the stretch.
00:13:05And I mean, what a story it was that this horse just held on and kept going.
00:13:09Randy, you touched upon something, we're recording this on Tuesday, it'll be in Wednesday's
00:13:15Thoroughbred Daily News, I touched on something that you just brought up.
00:13:19I opined that there isn't another trainer in the country besides Wayne Lucas that would
00:13:26have run this horse in the Preakness after winning the Pat Day mile, coming back in two
00:13:29weeks, added distance, all those factors.
00:13:34And all the years I've been doing this podcast and riding, it just drives me crazy that the
00:13:41sport has become where the extra caution is just, to me, ridiculous.
00:13:49Horses are not meant to run three, four times a year, they don't need eight weeks between
00:13:53races.
00:13:55Look, I'm not a trainer, I'm not an expert, but that's just common sense to me, especially
00:13:59since when you and I were little kids going to the track, horses would run 25 times a
00:14:03year type of thing.
00:14:05So I think Lucas deserves a lot of credit for that.
00:14:09And I think owners should pay more attention to it, because if Lucas wins about, he'll
00:14:14win about 12 to 15% this year based on the kind of year he's going.
00:14:18Chad Brown's going to win 25, okay, Chad Brown has a better winning percentage.
00:14:23If Chad Brown runs your horse four times, and Wayne Lucas runs that same horse 12 times,
00:14:27aren't you better off with Wayne Lucas?
00:14:32Horses are different animals now than they used to be, and every horse is different.
00:14:35They need time.
00:14:36I mean, I'm out there each and every day and you're not, horse welfare is paramount now
00:14:44in this day and age, and some horses can't run back every two weeks.
00:14:49It's just an impossible fact, and I know this IRF bill to no end, but that's just plain
00:14:55and simple.
00:14:56It's, yeah.
00:14:57Oh, Zoe, you drank the Kool-Aid.
00:15:01I don't think that, in my opinion, just because the one, two, three finishers in the Preak
00:15:06mistakes were all coming back in two weeks, that Todd Pletcher and Chad Brown and all
00:15:11these other trainers are all of a sudden going to start saying, oh, okay, it's all right
00:15:14to run our horse back in two weeks.
00:15:16We'll start doing this more often.
00:15:18And for the people who say, oh, well, this proves that the Triple Crown doesn't need
00:15:22to be changed, the races don't need to be spaced out.
00:15:25The problem is not that horses can't run back in two weeks.
00:15:29The problem is that the Preakness field has been dramatically weakened, steadily getting
00:15:34weaker and weaker and weaker because trainers don't want to run back in two weeks.
00:15:40That's the issue.
00:15:41It's not whether they can or not, it's that they don't want to, and, you know, I mean,
00:15:45by extension, you figure they don't want to because they figure it's not best for their
00:15:48horses.
00:15:49So, I don't think it changes the equation of whether or not the Triple Crown spacing
00:15:54needs to be changed, but I did think it was refreshing that the top three finishers were
00:15:59all coming back in two weeks.
00:16:02The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:16:05The TDN named two rising stars this week as Bolt Divine.
00:16:10Take a look at this one.
00:16:11This one looked really good.
00:16:12Cruise home to an easy winner in her debut at Santa Anita this past Saturday, and on
00:16:18Thursday, Donegal Momentum crushed the field of Maidens by an easy eight and a quarter
00:16:23lengths on his debut.
00:16:25That's the second TDN rising star for Coolmore's Uncle Mo this month alone.
00:16:31What do they have in common?
00:16:32They are both Keeneland graduates.
00:16:34Make plans to attend this year's Keeneland September Sale, which begins on September
00:16:39the 9th.
00:16:40We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:43Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
00:16:49On behalf of the management and staff of Keeneland, I would like to welcome you to the September
00:16:53Yearling Sale.
00:16:54Good to have you back with us.
00:16:55The energy at Keeneland Book One is unlike any other sale that you'll go to.
00:16:59It is the marketplace.
00:17:01The center of the horse universe.
00:17:03It's electric.
00:17:04You can't replicate the urgency that's at Keeneland September.
00:17:06Quality in quantity.
00:17:08Keeneland September Book One.
00:17:10Every breeder's dream.
00:17:16Can't get out of my mind.
00:17:17I saw him down at OBS for the T-Roll Sale.
00:17:19His breeze was spectacular.
00:17:23And then top of the sale, everything he did in his career, breaking his Maiden sprinting
00:17:27on the dirt.
00:17:28Very, very impressive debut.
00:17:31Winning a grade one, stretching out.
00:17:33Breezing through the stretch.
00:17:34He's the real deal.
00:17:35And then the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.
00:17:38He's just too good.
00:17:39Cornish wins the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:17:43And then going on and being a champion two-year-old, extremely difficult to do.
00:17:48Obviously, Quality Road has done enough for all of us to understand what he's doing.
00:17:51I thought Wasted Tears was a very, very good mare, a Nashman mare.
00:17:54She obviously won the Ginny Wiley stakes.
00:17:56Also, a course record holder in the Ouija board.
00:17:59So really good female family.
00:18:01Good sire line.
00:18:02Was delighted with him physically and was excited to breed to him.
00:18:05It's very important for us to breed physical to physical and try to get the best physical
00:18:10cross.
00:18:11We're very happy with the foal we've gotten.
00:18:13He's got a great natural shape to him.
00:18:15Great hip.
00:18:16Got a lot of power behind.
00:18:17Very nice balance to him.
00:18:19Plenty leg.
00:18:20You always like to see a horse have enough leg.
00:18:22Also, he's a very intelligent foal.
00:18:26You know, pricks his ears.
00:18:27Has good presence to him.
00:18:31This is a Cornish filly out of Anima Gemella.
00:18:34Been a standout since she was born.
00:18:37Very strong.
00:18:38Very well made.
00:18:39Good mover.
00:18:40Really, you know, everything we were hoping for.
00:18:42You know, he's got a really sharp eye.
00:18:47Good shoulder.
00:18:48Neck sass.
00:18:49Nice top line.
00:18:50I like the way he finishes out behind, but he really sort of travels over the gown smoothly
00:18:54and just has a real sharpness to him about his body and is exactly what I was hoping
00:18:58for.
00:18:59But I mean, we all know that hopes and dreams are not actually what they always pan out
00:19:01to be.
00:19:02And when they pan out, you're double down.
00:19:15This week's fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Audible, one of those fast sires
00:19:19of Windstar Farm.
00:19:21Audible, making himself heard as a second crop sire.
00:19:24This week, Audible had two new winners, Please Stop Talking and Lucky Speech, and two graded
00:19:30stakes placings on Preakness Weekend at Pimlico.
00:19:34Called another play, it was third in the grade two, Black-Eyed Susan, and Cats by five finished
00:19:39second in the grade three, Chick Lang Stakes.
00:19:42Audible is now the second of the leading second crop sire by earnings.
00:19:47Black-type winners, graded stakes runners, and graded stakes winners.
00:19:53Fastest horse of the week, we don't need to spend too much time on, Seize the Gray, had
00:19:57a 100 buyer speed figure in the Preakness, which topped the list of buyer performances
00:20:02on an otherwise slow week for graded stakes.
00:20:04Of the 10 graded stakes races run in North America last week, eight of them were at Pimlico
00:20:11on Friday or Saturday, and Seize the Gray topped the list with that 100.
00:20:24The TD and Writer's Room brought to you, as always, by Linton Green and his Green Group,
00:20:29tax accounting and advisory firms specializing in this thoroughbred industry, and especially
00:20:34saving you money on your taxes.
00:20:38We're pleased to be joined now by the Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:20:40It's Michael Behrens.
00:20:41He is the founder and CEO of MyRaceHorse.com, and you guys all know what they accomplished
00:20:46over the weekend.
00:20:47The Preakness victory with Seize the Gray, trained by Wayne Lucas.
00:20:50Michael, thanks for joining us.
00:20:52My first question is about the Lucas situation and the angle with him.
00:20:57A lot of owners over the years have frankly turned away from him.
00:21:01He's too old.
00:21:02The games kind of passed him by.
00:21:04His winning percentage was going down every single year.
00:21:07What gave you the confidence to pick Wayne Lucas to train this horse?
00:21:12Well, it started from a lot of nostalgia, I'll tell you.
00:21:15I grew up in Southern California, in Glendora, California, and Mr. Lucas was on the top of
00:21:21his game.
00:21:22Everything that was good went through his barn, and all the big races that I went to
00:21:25were Lucas.
00:21:27As I got into MyRaceHorse, and I saw him getting some nice horses up at Saratoga and Oak Lawn,
00:21:31and I saw what he was doing, the chances he was getting, I was getting impressed.
00:21:36Obviously, as a huge fan, as a living legend of our game, and then seeing him kind of reemerge
00:21:42with a couple of horses that I thought he was really doing well with, when we bought
00:21:46this horse at the Fasig sale, I turned to the team and I said, this is where I want
00:21:49to go.
00:21:50I asked them if they thought this was the right type of horse for his program.
00:21:53We know that he's got a certain style, and there's a certain type of horse that can fit
00:21:57that program.
00:21:58They gave me the big thumbs up, and that's how it all started.
00:22:01So the logistics here for Seize the Grave, for people that aren't that familiar with
00:22:05the MyRaceHorse operation, 5,000 shares were offered at $127 a share, correct me if I'm
00:22:14wrong about any of this, sold out within a matter of weeks, 2,570 different owners
00:22:23from 42 states, including 48 from Maryland.
00:22:28How in the hell do you deal with this many owners, just the sheer logistics of it?
00:22:36Tell us about that.
00:22:37Yeah, it's taken us some time.
00:22:40That's fair.
00:22:41So we started this business in 2019 under the premise that everything was moving fractional.
00:22:46So my background has been in ad tech and marketing for the last 20 years.
00:22:49I'm not a horse guy.
00:22:50Well, now I'm becoming one, but it's been a couple of classic wins.
00:22:53But prior to this, it was more ad tech and marketing.
00:22:57And you can see that people were solving ridiculously hard problems by using more modern technology.
00:23:03And so you think about what we have in the mobile phone, and the mobile phone had not
00:23:06been really applied to racehorse ownership.
00:23:08It hadn't been applied to racing in a very innovative way.
00:23:12We thought that we could curate the crowd, we could bring them together, we can give
00:23:16an amazing experience, 90% driven through a digital environment.
00:23:20And then we would get creative and try to figure out if we could get the last 10%.
00:23:24And that has been super hard.
00:23:25It really has.
00:23:26Like, I mean, bringing people out to the track and getting barn visits and paddock passes
00:23:30and all that kind of good stuff.
00:23:32It isn't easy.
00:23:33But the team has perfected over the last four years, and I think we do a pretty darn good
00:23:36job now.
00:23:37And how much did the late B. Wayne Hughes help with the initial rollout here of MyRacehorse?
00:23:44And it's, you know, it's first sort of leap into public consciousness.
00:23:49I mean, I think help kind of feels like just too passive a word.
00:23:52I mean, I had the idea, I had the vision, I got the regulatory approval, and I built
00:23:56the tech.
00:23:58But it was his innovation, his business savvy, his command of this industry, and where he
00:24:03could see this going that just took me to a whole nother level.
00:24:05I didn't go to grad school, but I felt like the couple of years that we worked together,
00:24:09I had done it, you know, two times over.
00:24:11He's an innovator.
00:24:12He's unbelievably savvy when it comes to business.
00:24:14He really, really loved horse racing, right?
00:24:17So his ability to bring his business savvy, his entrepreneurial spirit, and his passion
00:24:21for racing.
00:24:22And then I think what I brought to the table was some innovation, some operational expertise,
00:24:27and kind of our combination was pretty good.
00:24:30B. Wayne and now D. Wayne.
00:24:31How about that?
00:24:32Yeah, right?
00:24:34Nice, nice, nice.
00:24:35Nice, nice, nice.
00:24:36Exactly.
00:24:37My racehorse has been called the face of the people, and it really all started with Authentic.
00:24:42I mean, how do you react when people say, oh, my racehorse, the face of the people?
00:24:46Because when you guys first came around, I can remember looking at the app on my phone.
00:24:50I'm like, oh, it's kind of interesting because I downloaded it.
00:24:53I'm like, have you heard of this?
00:24:55My racehorse?
00:24:56Never heard of it.
00:24:57I'm like, that's kind of neat.
00:24:58And then lo and behold, you get a little piece of Authentic, you win the Derby, now you've
00:25:02won the Preakness, you are the face of the people.
00:25:05Yeah.
00:25:06I mean, being the face of the people, I'll take that all day long.
00:25:10I mean, when we started this, that's exactly what it was.
00:25:14I mean, the idea was that when I looked at my racing forum, when I went to the races
00:25:19and I saw who owned the horses and they own countries and they own big companies and they
00:25:24own big hedge funds, I couldn't see a reason that we couldn't curate the millions of people
00:25:30that love horse racing.
00:25:31I mean, what was the stats for the NBC on Derby, 16.7 million people.
00:25:38There's still a lot of energy and a lot of excitement, a lot of passion around horse
00:25:40racing.
00:25:41And I thought, let's curate it.
00:25:43Let's go ahead and compete.
00:25:44We can outbid anybody if we can all throw 100 bucks in together.
00:25:47And for the fact that four years later, you're saying that a few people out there say that
00:25:51we're the face of the people, I'm proud of that.
00:25:55Michael, apparently you and Wayne Lucas didn't get the memo.
00:25:59You're not supposed to run horses back in two weeks.
00:26:02Can't do that in horse racing anymore.
00:26:05Was that your idea?
00:26:06Was it Wayne's idea?
00:26:07A little bit of both.
00:26:08It definitely wasn't my idea.
00:26:10I think that, I mean, I'm with Mr. Lucas for a reason and I have enjoyed this journey
00:26:16tremendously.
00:26:17He has shared all the insight and all the experience that has propelled him to the success
00:26:22that he's had.
00:26:23I've had a little bit of a taste along this journey.
00:26:27He's completely generous with his thinking and his time and his strategy and what other
00:26:32considerations going into it.
00:26:34So, I mean, it wasn't like this binary decisive plan.
00:26:37I mean, he lets the horse tell him.
00:26:39He's unbelievable kind of reactionary to what he's seen from the competition, from the horse
00:26:44itself.
00:26:45And so he sets out an aggressive target.
00:26:48He's very comfortable, continue to reassess in a highly iterative way.
00:26:52And he keeps you informed about the whole thing.
00:26:54But we're down in Australia as well, right?
00:26:57We have about 60 horses out in Australia and this isn't really that uncommon anymore.
00:27:00I spend about a third of my time with the Australian stable and they have this carnival
00:27:04concept.
00:27:05These horses go on spells for a couple of months and they come out and they run every
00:27:08couple of weeks during the carnival and they get turned back out again and they compete
00:27:12at the highest level.
00:27:13So, we're seeing it in our Australian stable very, very common.
00:27:16When you see it here, it gets the reaction that you just had.
00:27:19But the reality is, I think if you take a step back and look at global racing, it's
00:27:22kind of more of us that kind of have this idea that we can't run every couple of weeks.
00:27:26So maybe we're the outlier.
00:27:29So when you take an 88-year-old trainer, Michael, an old timer, sorry Wayne, sorry for saying
00:27:35that.
00:27:37And now you merge him with this newfangled ownership strategy of apps and micro shares
00:27:45and 2,570 owners.
00:27:49You would think that it wouldn't necessarily be a marriage made in heaven, but Wayne seems
00:27:54to get a kick out of it.
00:27:56He's like, you know, I don't know how many people own this horse.
00:27:58I have no idea.
00:27:59This winner's circle is going to be really crowded.
00:28:02How much has he embraced it?
00:28:03I mean, actually, that was more my concern when he asked originally about going to Mr.
00:28:08Lucas and, you know, kind of at the, you know, maybe the twilight of the career, whatever
00:28:12it may be.
00:28:13I mean, I knew he was an amazing horseman.
00:28:15I had no doubt that he was going to take care of this horse and put him in a good spot.
00:28:18I was actually more concerned with what you just brought up right there.
00:28:20It's like, is he going to embrace the idea that we're going to bring 2000 people and
00:28:23that people are going to show up to the barn once a while unannounced and winnow circles
00:28:26are going to be crazy and people are going to be posting all over social media and questioning
00:28:30his decisions.
00:28:31And they do.
00:28:32And I didn't know how that was going to be.
00:28:34And then watching him and watching him interact with people, he has been so unbelievably generous
00:28:38with his time and his time is such a precious commodity.
00:28:42Our owners, our partners absolutely love it.
00:28:44I mean, I was at the alibi breakfast.
00:28:46I watched him this entire weekend.
00:28:48It was really the first time I got to see him live with our partners.
00:28:51And there was so many of our partners out at Preakness and they were stopping him and
00:28:55he was telling stories and signing autographs and taking pictures.
00:28:59And he did it with a smile.
00:29:00He did it with thoughtfulness.
00:29:02He took his time.
00:29:03He wasn't dismissive.
00:29:05And it was unbelievable.
00:29:06So, I mean, what you saw on the media, I mean, that was a microcosm of what he was doing
00:29:10behind the scenes with people he met throughout the whole weekend.
00:29:13It was, it blew me away.
00:29:14I was thrilled for the business.
00:29:17I was thrilled for the partners.
00:29:18I was pleasantly surprised.
00:29:19And then I sat down with him, I don't know if it was the day after or the day before,
00:29:23and we were sitting there and talking with him and his wife.
00:29:25And then he started giving me business ideas on the app.
00:29:28He's like, hey, you can change this and do this and all this kind of good stuff.
00:29:32Not only is he a Hall of Fame trainer, he seems like a pretty darn good ad tech guy.
00:29:36Yeah, he's always been ahead of the curve.
00:29:38If you think about when you were watching him from Glendora back in the, you know, the
00:29:4280s, 90s, where he had multiple stables on multiple coasts, he he's a guy that everyone's
00:29:48based their stables on people that have multiple stables.
00:29:52Now, as the years have gone on, his have got smaller, but he's always been a guy to embrace
00:29:56people like watching him at Oaklawn bring all the kids into the winner's circle.
00:30:00Like he's he's a guy that truly loves it.
00:30:03Yeah, he's knocking on a little bit.
00:30:05But to watch him in the winner's circle, I was stood at the top of the chalet when they
00:30:10let the horse in.
00:30:11And, you know, you had a small ish group of owners all chanting, seize the gray, seize
00:30:17the gray. And for me watching it, it was just such an awesome experience.
00:30:22I just can't imagine how you were feeling that day watching this guy come in with a
00:30:27horse that you guys have picked out.
00:30:30Oh, yeah, I mean, I was it was I actually I got really caught up in it and I try to
00:30:34be very cognizant and aware that I don't own the horse, that I literally am a conduit,
00:30:40a facilitator to bring the crowd together.
00:30:42They own the horse.
00:30:43It's their horse.
00:30:44They have the equity in the horse.
00:30:45And I try to respect that and appreciate that.
00:30:47But I got to say, when I was up there and I was watching exactly what you just described
00:30:51and him bringing that horse in, I mean, it was definitely a lot of pride for me.
00:30:54I was I was I was thrilled and I heard the chant and it was a really cool moment.
00:31:00And then when I looked up over the hedges and I saw another hundred my racehorse people
00:31:04out there on the hedges, respecting the fact that everybody can come in the winner's circle
00:31:08and all their joy.
00:31:10It was crazy.
00:31:11It's like the joy I was feeling.
00:31:12I then saw it across a hundred other faces that were there.
00:31:15It was it was it was a really cool moment.
00:31:16And then watching Jaime Torres and his joy and his family.
00:31:20I mean, this this this game is fun.
00:31:23It's thrilling.
00:31:24We use the word thrill a lot.
00:31:25Right.
00:31:26But there's it also creates a lot of joy.
00:31:27Well, speaking of that, Michael, I'm going to go back to your reaction in the winner's
00:31:32circle on NBC television.
00:31:34I think the word surreal has become a cliche.
00:31:37It's thrown around too much.
00:31:38But if it ever fit, you look like you didn't know what planet you were on.
00:31:42I mean, you were shaking your head.
00:31:44I can't believe it.
00:31:45I can't believe it.
00:31:46You know, if I were to ask you what day of the week it was, you would have said Thursday.
00:31:49So, you know, if you could expound on that, the feelings that resonated with you and what
00:31:55it felt like to be standing in that winner's circle and to and also moments earlier, seeing
00:32:00this horse cross the wire first, I mean, a couple of things.
00:32:03This is my business.
00:32:04Right.
00:32:05My business is to build my racehorse and try to bring many people in.
00:32:08So I spent the weekend trying to make sure that I delivered on my business and I got
00:32:12the partners access to what they get access to.
00:32:14And I got content for all the people who are at home and are having to watch their horse
00:32:18run the preakness at home and getting the event stuff and working with the horseman's
00:32:21relations and making sure we had that all squared away and working with Wayne and getting
00:32:24updates.
00:32:25And so I go into it, you know, understand the fact that this is my business.
00:32:29I have two thousand five hundred and seventy shareholders that I have to basically provide
00:32:33value to.
00:32:35And that's what I do when I come to the races.
00:32:38But at that moment, I kind of forgot about the business.
00:32:41I just won the preakness and it sunk in that we just won the preakness that, you know,
00:32:45that the whole group on the preakness that I don't even let I don't even let my mind
00:32:48on a day like that kind of go to what if we win.
00:32:52It's so much more about kind of planning for the day, making sure it goes well, all the
00:32:56logistics having come in.
00:32:57So I think what happened was I didn't really give myself permission to think about what
00:33:02if we win.
00:33:03And so I just didn't prepare for it.
00:33:05I didn't see it.
00:33:06It just kind of came out of the blue.
00:33:07And so that reaction was just kind of shock.
00:33:10And, you know, we did it once.
00:33:12It felt like light in the bottle in 2020.
00:33:14And in really in 2020, it was amazing, but it was COVID restricted year.
00:33:19And, you know, my wife wasn't there to celebrate with me.
00:33:21I didn't have hundreds of partners out there.
00:33:24You know, it was a little bit of an odd celebration.
00:33:26It was amazing to win the Kentucky Derby, but there was something different about it.
00:33:32And so to have it with the crowd that we had, a number of partners are out there to be such
00:33:37an important race, you know, with Lucas, you know, a childhood hero of mine, right?
00:33:44I don't know.
00:33:45I was overwhelmed.
00:33:46I was a little bit embarrassed, but it was raw.
00:33:48It was real.
00:33:49And I was just happy.
00:33:51So let's talk business now for a second.
00:33:54I haven't looked this up.
00:33:55I'm just operating on memory here in 2020 with Authentic when Wayne Hughes allowed you
00:34:01guys to buy in to Authentic.
00:34:03Was it like 12%?
00:34:0412%, yeah.
00:34:0512%.
00:34:06Okay.
00:34:07So you were a minority owner, right?
00:34:10So now fast forward, you're at the Preakness as a 100% owner of this particular horse,
00:34:19right?
00:34:20And the attention that you got with Seize the Gray and you being on the podium and everybody
00:34:29hearing about MyRaceHorse and all the owners and NBC interviewing some of the owners about
00:34:34their experiences.
00:34:36How much do you think this can do for MyRaceHorse going forward?
00:34:40I mean, if the last 48 or now 72 hours is any indication, this is the step change that
00:34:47businesses look for.
00:34:48I mean, the Derby is what people would basically believe would be that step change.
00:34:53But you're right.
00:34:54We own 12.5% of it.
00:34:55You know, it wasn't 100% ours.
00:34:57We didn't get all the coverage.
00:34:58It wasn't just about us.
00:34:59And it shouldn't have been.
00:35:00I mean, B. Wayne Hughes has done so much for this game.
00:35:02It should have been about him and what he accomplished.
00:35:04And that was his Kentucky Derby win and spent their farms.
00:35:07And I think that was fair and just.
00:35:10So it was a good moment for us.
00:35:12It brought us a lot of credibility.
00:35:13But we also paid a lot of money to buy in after he was already a grade one winner into
00:35:18that horse.
00:35:19We had to buy in with kickers for what he wound up performing.
00:35:22So the financials basically maybe were not as attractive as people would think when you
00:35:26buy a racehorse that goes off and does that.
00:35:29You did share the spotlight.
00:35:31In this situation, this is a horse that we did buy.
00:35:34We bought it for $300,000 at a yearling sale that we spent all days going up and doing
00:35:40inspections and picking that horse.
00:35:42And people took the risk to buy an unraced horse.
00:35:44They put that money in.
00:35:45So not only do we get all the attention, the publicity, but we also are going to be able
00:35:52to capitalize this financially a lot more than we were authentic.
00:35:55Now, it's not fair to say authentic.
00:35:57Authentic, we haven't capitalized on financially quite yet because it was set up to be a stallion
00:36:01deer deal.
00:36:02So if obviously his babies hit, that could be extremely financially rewarding.
00:36:06But I think in this situation, winning that race and being able to have a horse that we
00:36:11paid a relatively modest fee in this day and age, it seems so odd to say $300,000 is a
00:36:16modest fee.
00:36:17But the fact that we did pay $300,000, the fact that everybody's going to benefit both
00:36:21in the racing and on the stallion deal if one comes together, which you think out of
00:36:26Arrogate and what he's accomplished the last three weeks, there's a good chance that happens.
00:36:30I'm super excited that that part of the business is now going to get its day in the sun.
00:36:37It's just so cool to think that you own 100% of that house.
00:36:41All right.
00:36:42So let's talk about the nuts and bolts.
00:36:44I am stupid enough not to have bought a share in Seize the Gray.
00:36:48However, I'm still kicking myself.
00:36:51If I had bought a share in Seize the Gray, how much would it have cost and how much would
00:36:58I get for winning the Preakness and then a stallion deal?
00:37:03Let's talk about the money, like for my minor outlay to begin with.
00:37:07Perfect.
00:37:08So you can, I mean, and just for anybody who doesn't know how the MyRaceHorse model works,
00:37:12we don't limit you to buying one share because it's a lot like the stock market, right?
00:37:17If we want to buy Tesla, maybe I buy one share, Bill wants 10, Randy wants 100 shares, right?
00:37:22We just basically increase it predicate based on whatever we want.
00:37:26The minimum is our kind of our share price.
00:37:30So the share price for him was $127, right?
00:37:33So it was $127 to buy in and that basically covered the cost of the horse.
00:37:40It covered mortality insurance for two years.
00:37:44It covered training for two years, vet care for two years, any administrations and accounting
00:37:49fees that go with owning a horse because nobody pays another dollar when they invest in MyRaceHorse.
00:37:55We have to collect everything up front because the one thing which is really difficult about
00:37:59our model is that nobody wants to give RaceHorse ownership a try if there's any potential ongoing
00:38:04liability.
00:38:05I don't care if it's a dollar a month.
00:38:06That is like game change.
00:38:07All the focus groups that we did, right?
00:38:09I'll go ahead and try this RaceHorse ownership thing, but don't ever ask for another dollar,
00:38:13right?
00:38:14So we have to pre-fund it all.
00:38:15So that $127 included everything.
00:38:17So anything that's not for the horse actually just goes in a cash account.
00:38:20It just sits there, we pay off the bills and Lucas sends his bill and the transport companies
00:38:24and the vets and all that stuff, they send their bills.
00:38:26It's taken out of that.
00:38:27And if there's anything left over at the end, then we just kind of give that back to the
00:38:31original investors.
00:38:32So the $127 was for the horse and that money, which is their money, but we just have to
00:38:36pre-collect it, right?
00:38:37So he won his maiden race.
00:38:39He then also won the Pat Day mile.
00:38:41So going into the race, he had already collected $70 in dividends.
00:38:45So so far, you had gotten $70 in your MyRaceHorse app paid back to you based on excess money.
00:38:50So when I say excess money, we have that cash reserve account.
00:38:54When there's more than we think we need for the next two years of training, we just pay
00:38:57it off.
00:38:58So really what we're paying out is just excess cash in the company.
00:39:01And the company is just one thing.
00:39:03It's a horse.
00:39:04So when that horse produces a bunch of revenue, there's more than enough money to pay.
00:39:08Excess cash gets paid out.
00:39:09So we had just won a race two weeks ago to Bill's point.
00:39:13So there was all the money was in the account.
00:39:15There was no need to keep any of it.
00:39:17So basically $156 is getting paid out on that race alone.
00:39:22So you have the 70 before, you have the 156 there.
00:39:25So now you're what, 226 on a 127 share.
00:39:29And you haven't even got into where the real money in horse racing comes nowadays, especially
00:39:33in the US, which is a stallion deal.
00:39:36So I'm not even going to throw out a number there.
00:39:39But let's say that at this point, let's say, let's just for simplicity, if it was $10 million,
00:39:45you're looking at $1,000 per person gross.
00:39:47I mean, there's going to be expenses and things like that to get there.
00:39:51But that's a pretty decent payoff for 127.
00:39:53Michael, before we let you go, I've talked to you about this before.
00:39:57I'm a customer.
00:39:58I've invested twice in my racehorse.
00:40:01Neither one of those horses could outrun Randy, unfortunately.
00:40:05That's part of the game.
00:40:07But I want to, rather than ask you a question, I just want to make a statement.
00:40:11And I'm not saying this just because you're on.
00:40:14But I've thoroughly enjoyed it, even though my horses were not successful.
00:40:19The question, either Zoe or Randy, I don't remember what it was, like, how on earth do
00:40:23you handle all of these people?
00:40:26You do.
00:40:27You do a really good job.
00:40:28I always felt informed about what was going on and at each step along the way, what to
00:40:35expect.
00:40:36Now, because I just gave you a lot of free publicity, maybe you can tip me off on who's
00:40:40the one I should invest in now.
00:40:42You know what's so crazy about that?
00:40:44We bought two horses at that sale.
00:40:47And we surround ourselves with really good horsemen.
00:40:50Both those horses went down to Wavertree and we've got our bloodstock team and racing team
00:40:54looking at it.
00:40:55And it was the other horse.
00:40:56It was an audible affiliate that a lot of people thought was going to be the one that
00:40:59might be the stakes horse.
00:41:00He's the gray was kind of this kind of lazy dude.
00:41:03He just didn't really do a lot.
00:41:04You never get out.
00:41:05You never can kind of outwork him, but it just kind of did enough and didn't show it.
00:41:08So, you know, I always my friends and family will call and try to say, oh, which is the
00:41:13right one?
00:41:14And in this game, we buy everyone we buy, we think is going to be a star.
00:41:18And then you just never know which one's going to surprise you.
00:41:20Sometimes they grow up.
00:41:21I mean, if you look at Caesar Gray, it's not the same horse, right?
00:41:23You look at his physical stature now, it's not the same horse.
00:41:27Sometimes it's the heart, right?
00:41:29Sometimes it's just their heart and their desire to win.
00:41:31Others just don't love racing, whatever it may be.
00:41:33You don't know.
00:41:34There's so many intangibles, which I think will make this game so special.
00:41:37We can try everything.
00:41:38We're the best people together.
00:41:39We have made the most well-informed decisions and then today, there's just these uncontrollable
00:41:44forces that allow Saturday to happen.
00:41:46And so that's what makes it so, you know, so thrilling.
00:41:50So I have one additional question, Michael, and I'm just curious about this.
00:41:54I mean, way back when, Cott Campbell was one of the original people that were involved,
00:42:00was involved in fractional ownership of resources through Dogwood Stable.
00:42:04And now there are more partnerships like that than you can even keep track of.
00:42:11You know, five, six, seven years ago, the Avengers sort of pioneered the concept of
00:42:16combining a lot of very wealthy owners into one big ownership group, buying a bunch of
00:42:21yearlings and hoping a few of them scored big as stallions.
00:42:26Now that my racehorse has experienced this success, are you expecting some competition
00:42:31in that sphere?
00:42:32Definitely.
00:42:33Definitely.
00:42:34I mean, I think that when you look, it is not an easy endeavor and I think it takes
00:42:38a significant amount of capital to build.
00:42:40So the one obstacle we have is this is, to be fair, Thoroughbred Racing is not really
00:42:47on the radar for many entrepreneurs and investors in Silicon Valley.
00:42:52You're just not seeing a lot of people basically saying, this is where we're going to deploy
00:42:54our capital.
00:42:55We're going to bring some disruption to innovation here.
00:42:57We're into this business for well over $10 million in terms of building out the infrastructure,
00:43:01the regulatory construct.
00:43:03So this is not something that you can just be passionate and excited by and you see an
00:43:07opportunity and want to go for it.
00:43:09If you want to build out the legal infrastructure, the tech infrastructure, the staff infrastructure,
00:43:14the building of the brand, it's going to take an investment.
00:43:16Now I think when somebody can take a step back and see actually how big the global horse
00:43:21racing market is and they can see what can be accomplished, but it's no easy feat.
00:43:25So if someone's going to come in, they're going to have to get really well funded.
00:43:29That will be a barrier to entry.
00:43:31So I feel like we've got a pretty good head start, but no one's just going to let us have
00:43:35it and I'll take it for a little while and we'll enjoy it for a couple of years.
00:43:39But I'm sure in a couple of years, somebody else will be on here and they'll be doing
00:43:41something similar.
00:43:42And hopefully we continue to execute well and people enjoy buying with my racehorse
00:43:46and we're a leader in this space, but I don't think we'll be solo.
00:43:49Michael, I got one more.
00:43:51I'm in Maryland at the Timonium sale.
00:43:54It's Tuesday.
00:43:55You guys already teamed up with Romero Restrepo, Marquis and the Delgados to buy a $450,000
00:44:03Bolt D'Oro Philly yesterday.
00:44:05Are you going again today?
00:44:07Can I get my hand up on something or are you guys just going to buy everything here?
00:44:10We're not going to buy them all, but we're not done shopping yet.
00:44:16So that was a really nice Bolt D'Oro Philly.
00:44:19Really nice to partner with them.
00:44:21I didn't know them very well, but kind of met the sale.
00:44:23They were really high in the Philly as well.
00:44:25And it's nice to have partners that appreciate what we're doing.
00:44:28We also have a common belief that the horse was potentially a really good one.
00:44:35So I'm excited to be with them.
00:44:36I bought one later in the day as well with Peter Lidell, who we've partnered with before.
00:44:41And we've got a couple more on the shopping list today.
00:44:44The app has been going crazy.
00:44:45I don't think you guys can hear it, but it just keeps dinging with new people signing
00:44:48up and downloading.
00:44:49So it's been really fun for me as an entrepreneur to see this many more people now getting involved
00:44:54and wanting to get involved in horse racing, rising tides lift all ships.
00:44:58So if a moment like that can bring a few more thousand people into the game, they go tell
00:45:02one more friend, network effect takes over.
00:45:04That's really what it's all about.
00:45:05You need network effect right now.
00:45:07And I think we have an opportunity where 2,570 people are all going to go tell 10 people.
00:45:12If a couple of those people try it out, just kind of do the compounding math, it gets fun
00:45:16pretty quick.
00:45:18And knowing Wayne, he is reminding you that he will be available.
00:45:21He has already told me that he is looking to load up on some more two-year-olds.
00:45:26There you go.
00:45:27There you go.
00:45:28Well, Michael, congratulations on your success in the Preakness.
00:45:31And it was such a great story.
00:45:33I mean, we wanted to, of course, see a horse win the Triple Crown.
00:45:36It didn't happen.
00:45:37But I think the second best story was Wayne Lucas winning Preakness stakes after all these
00:45:42years and you were a big part of that.
00:45:44Thanks for joining us on the TDN podcast.
00:45:47Best of luck with the horses you buy at Timonium and best of luck with Seize the Gray in the
00:45:51Belmont stakes.
00:45:52Thanks.
00:45:53Appreciate it.
00:45:55As the Green Group Guest of the Week, Michael Behrens will receive a free one-hour tax consultation
00:46:00with the Green Group.
00:46:01Len Green has always been a firm believer that success in sports translates well into
00:46:05success in the entrepreneurial business world.
00:46:08And as an active participant in the sport of thoroughbred racing, he uses his experience
00:46:13to help others in the industry navigate all those complicated tax rules.
00:46:17For more information on how the Green Group can help you, visit www.greenco.com.
00:46:26When it comes to the horse industry, tax laws are complicated and unique.
00:46:30That is why most people overpay on their taxes.
00:46:33Why not get a second opinion from the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred
00:46:37industry?
00:46:38With over 800 clients in the horse business alone, the Green Group has the expertise to
00:46:43save you taxes.
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00:46:49the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:46:51We save you taxes.
00:46:53Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Len Green, has owned and bred some of the
00:46:58best racehorses in the history of the sport.
00:47:01His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious
00:47:05honors.
00:47:06Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge combined with current-edge tax-saving strategies
00:47:12produces positive tax-saving results for clients.
00:47:15Take advantage of this special offer.
00:47:17The Green Group will give you a complimentary and confidential review of your tax return.
00:47:23Contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:47:30Don't miss Penn National's signature event, Penn Mile Night, Friday, May 31st at Hollywood
00:47:40Casino at Penn National Racecourse.
00:47:43There are two Pennsylvania bread steaks, each with a $100,000 purse, plus the $150,000 Penn
00:47:50Oaks.
00:47:51It's all capped off by the $400,000 Grade III Penn Mile.
00:47:54Before the races, don't miss our special meet and greet with our guest race caller, Larry
00:47:58Colbus, Friday, May 31st at Penn National, First Post, 5 p.m.
00:48:04This week, we welcome back a sponsor from last year, the Penn Mile.
00:48:07Friday, May 31st is Penn Mile Day at Penn National.
00:48:10It features six steaks races topped by the $400,000 Grade III Penn Mile.
00:48:16Penn Mile noms include the top four finishers from the Grade II American Turf at Churchill,
00:48:20that's Tricary, Formidable Man, Lagnos, and Gugino, along with Neat, Twirling Point, and
00:48:25my personal favorite, the Jersey Bread star, Bookum Danno.
00:48:29Oh, I'd love to see him run in that race.
00:48:31The day also features the Penn Oaks, where Cherie DeVoe has nominated her Grade I winner,
00:48:36She Feels Pretty.
00:48:37Leifard, where Butch Reed has nominated Nisi Marie and Morning Matchaboo, and the PA Bread
00:48:42with Anticipation Steaks.
00:48:44Well, we've looked behind us at the Triple Crown races, the Derby and the Preakness.
00:48:49Now, let's look ahead to see what's going to go on in the Belmont Steaks, as well as
00:48:53maybe project what's going to happen with this three-year-old group through the rest
00:48:56of the year.
00:48:57I mean, right now, obviously, the division is way wide open, led by Mystic Dan.
00:49:01I suppose if the Eclipse Awards were voted on today, he would certainly be the winner.
00:49:05You have Seize the Gray, and now you've got the new Fresh Horses coming into the Belmont
00:49:09Steaks.
00:49:10So I'm wondering, who is going to be—Randy, last year at this time, you were the president
00:49:16of the Two Phil's Fan Club, because you looked at the first two legs of the Triple
00:49:21Crown.
00:49:22He didn't run in the Preakness, but he ran in the Ohio Derby, and you were convinced
00:49:26that this was the guy.
00:49:27Okay, he got injured, so we never got to see if you were right about that or not.
00:49:31But who is this year's second-half horse?
00:49:35I mean, the obvious one to me is Sierra Leone.
00:49:37We'll see how he does at the Belmont.
00:49:40Fierceness, you never know with him.
00:49:42I think he's going to bounce back and run big in the Belmont.
00:49:44Why wouldn't he?
00:49:45He runs well every single other race.
00:49:47Now it's the on-race for him.
00:49:49But just give us your thoughts on this crop going forward, and come October, leading up
00:49:54to the Breeders' Cup, which one of these guys are we talking about?
00:49:57You know what's pretty odd?
00:49:58When you go back and you look at all of the Triple Crown prep races, and the Derby and
00:50:03the Preakness so far, I mean, I don't know if it's odd or not, but seemingly every winner
00:50:08has been the horse that gets this great trip.
00:50:11As Mystic Nan in the Kentucky Derby sees the Gray in the Preakness, I mean, you can go
00:50:16back through a lot of the prep races as well, and the horses that get the trip have been
00:50:21the ones winning, and that's why you have so many different winners of these three-year-old
00:50:25races as the season progresses.
00:50:27I think right now the three-year-old division is wide open.
00:50:29Sierra Leone is the only one that really seems to be able to put good races together back
00:50:35to back regardless of trip, and of course you've got the whole thing with Sierra Leone
00:50:39about the lugging in that's got to be fixed.
00:50:42But to me, Sierra Leone and Fierceness look like the two major domos in the Belmont States.
00:50:51Fierceness probably, I think, might be able to be the controlling speed, and if that's
00:50:57the case, he'll be awfully tough to beat, even if Sierra Leone fires.
00:51:02Looks like a pretty full field.
00:51:03I'll be surprised, maybe I'm wrong, I'll be surprised if Mystic Nan comes back and runs
00:51:09in the Preakness after having run in the first two legs.
00:51:14Kenny McPeak is not, you know, immune to gambling and rolling the dice and being aggressive
00:51:19with his horses.
00:51:21So aggressive, in fact, that he's even said that he would run the Philly Torpedo Anna
00:51:26in the Belmont, perhaps, if Mystic Dan does not run.
00:51:31And then you would have some of your other suspects.
00:51:32Honor Marie had a really rough trip in the Kentucky Derby.
00:51:35He was pretty much wiped out early, although he's a come-from-behinder anyway.
00:51:39They're talking about running him.
00:51:41Dornach, Antiquarian, the Wine Steward, Mindframe, possibly, I think that horse of Pletcher's
00:51:50that has started off his career with a couple of big wins, including on the undercard at
00:51:53the Derby weekend.
00:51:55So yeah, it should be a pretty good Belmont at a mile and a quarter, which I think will
00:51:58inflate the field a little bit.
00:52:01And I believe that's really going to be the key, is going to be the mile and a quarter.
00:52:06Because if it's a mile and a half, you know, you're probably going to struggle to find
00:52:10eight horses to run in it against Sierra Leone.
00:52:13But at a mile and a quarter, you've got all kinds of people wanting to try and a mile
00:52:17and a quarter, especially at Saratoga.
00:52:21We're not talking about a mile and a quarter at Belmont.
00:52:24We're talking about a mile and a quarter at Saratoga.
00:52:26I'll be extremely interested to see if Torpedo Anna does indeed run, because she'll be the
00:52:33pace of the race if she does.
00:52:35And we're obviously filming this on Tuesday, so things can change even before this airs.
00:52:40But fillies in the Belmont have proven to do very, very well over the years.
00:52:46Sierra Leone comes in with a good work.
00:52:48We'll show that in just a little bit from XBTV.
00:52:52I would imagine he'll run in some different equipment.
00:52:55But you know what?
00:52:56When he works in the morning, he stays pretty straight.
00:52:58I think he's looking for the rail more than anything.
00:53:01So the only thing that could really help him out is if he ever gets drawn on the rail,
00:53:05just stay there.
00:53:06Don't try and go round horses.
00:53:08Let him lug in on the inside rail and perhaps change some equipment.
00:53:13I believe it may be the best Belmont at a mile and a quarter that we've seen in a very
00:53:17long time.
00:53:18I'm really looking forward to it.
00:53:20We didn't mention seize the gray.
00:53:21I mean, Wayne has already said he'll probably run in the Belmont if he comes out of it well.
00:53:26I think fierceness would be the speed of the race instead of Torpedo Anna, my personal
00:53:29opinion.
00:53:30I think the only reason they were on the lead in the Oaks with Torpedo Anna is because she
00:53:34drew inside.
00:53:35She broke well.
00:53:36There wasn't a lot of other competing speed in there, which that wasn't really her typical
00:53:41She certainly ran a hell of a race on the lead.
00:53:44Fierceness, I think they pretty much, I don't want to say they know because in the Breeders'
00:53:49Cup Juvenile, he said just a little off the pace.
00:53:52But after the Kentucky Derby, I would think they want him on the lead, if at all possible
00:53:56in the Belmont.
00:53:57Now, Randy, after the trip seize the gray had in the Preakness, why would he not be
00:54:02a pace after going after fierceness?
00:54:04Yeah, you know, I wasn't even thinking about seize the gray.
00:54:07I was, you know, I was thinking about some of the other horses in there.
00:54:10But yeah, the way he ran, a lot's going to depend on post position.
00:54:15If fierceness is drawn inside of seize the gray, then no pun intended, I think they'll
00:54:21try to seize the lead with fierceness.
00:54:23But if it's on the, if she was on the other foot and it's seize the gray drawn inside
00:54:29of fierceness, they might try to work out another trip like they had in the Breeders'
00:54:32Cup Juvenile where fierceness is sitting just outside of one horse on the lead.
00:54:37And maybe we'll see the fierceness that we saw then, like you say, it seems like every
00:54:40other race for him.
00:54:41The TDN Riders Room is brought to you not only by the Penn Mile, but also by the Pennsylvania
00:54:48Horse Breeders Association.
00:54:49The PHBA's 45th Annual Iroquois Awards were presented on May 10th, and Angel of Empire
00:54:56received dual honors as the 2023 PA Breed Horse of the Year, as well as the champion
00:55:02three-year-old male.
00:55:03Angel of Empire, of course, won the Arkansas Derby, was third in the Kentucky Derby.
00:55:08His earnings last year of nearly $1.5 million also topped the list among all PA breeds.
00:55:13Angel of Empire owned by the Albaugh Family Stable and was bred by Forgotten Land Investment
00:55:18and by Black Diamond Equine.
00:55:20Other divisional PA Breed champions included the 2022 PA Breed Horse of the Year, Caravelle,
00:55:28who for the second straight year was named champion older female, champion turf female,
00:55:33and champion female sprinter.
00:55:35For the complete list of PA Breed winners, visit pabread.com.
00:55:40The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program in the entire United States.
00:55:45When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket, and we are trying
00:55:48to provide the lottery ticket that the likelihood is to hit the jackpot.
00:55:53Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:55:57Uncle Heavy laid it's a photo finish.
00:56:01Pennsylvania and the PHPA have the best state bred program in the country bar none.
00:56:06The winner, Uncle Heavy, he's a three-year-old bred in Pennsylvania.
00:56:10With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
00:56:16been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:56:22Race money in Kentucky is at an all-time high.
00:56:25As is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:56:31Kentucky breds.
00:56:32Breed them.
00:56:33Raise them.
00:56:34Race them.
00:56:36We all win.
00:56:40The focus of the racing world last week, of course, was Maryland, but the winners of the
00:56:45graded Maryland Sprint, and Chick-fil-A, and Gallaret, and Pimlico's Special, and
00:56:51Black-Eyed Susan, and Preakness were all bred, drumroll please, in Kentucky.
00:56:57Actually, no drumroll was necessary.
00:57:00That's to be expected.
00:57:01On Friday, Gunsong became the 15th Black-Eyed Susan winner in the last 16 years to be bred
00:57:07in Kentucky.
00:57:08One of those years in Ontario bred snuck in there.
00:57:10And Seize the Gray was the 10th straight Kentucky bred winner of the Preakness, and
00:57:15the 18th in the last 19 years.
00:57:18Congratulations to their connections, and remember, Kentucky breds.
00:57:22Own them.
00:57:23Breed them.
00:57:24Race them.
00:57:25We all win.
00:57:26Well, there was some news off the racetrack during Preakness week, and it involved trainer
00:57:30George Weaver.
00:57:31And a couple weeks ago, we found out that Hi-Woo had accused him of having a racehorse
00:57:37that had metformin in his blood.
00:57:40So he was able to send out for a split sample.
00:57:43The hope among his team was that that split sample would not show the drug in the horse's
00:57:48system, but it did.
00:57:50So that was the last grasp at that time.
00:57:53There are some more things they can do legally, but as we speak now, he's shut down.
00:57:58He cannot run.
00:57:59He cannot train.
00:58:00I believe he's got about 75 horses, and they have to be distributed to other trainers.
00:58:04We've had this same debate on this show numerous times, and the same thing comes up.
00:58:09And I don't have all the answers, but I do know this.
00:58:13George Weaver doesn't cheat.
00:58:16He's as honest a guy as you could find.
00:58:19And sometimes, maybe we need to be more careful of this, that who are the bad guys and who
00:58:24are the good guys.
00:58:25But you know what?
00:58:26No, I'm okay with this.
00:58:28He's one of the good guys.
00:58:29The fact now that he's facing a possible two-year suspension for a drug that is very common
00:58:37in usage in humans, it's the third most prescribed drug in the country.
00:58:42The groom of the horse was on metformin.
00:58:45I know HISA slash HIWU has a tough job.
00:58:48I know they're trying to clean up the sport, but there's been too many of these.
00:58:51You're going after guys that didn't do anything wrong and involve environmental contamination.
00:58:58Like I said, I don't know what the answer is because you can't say, we're going to pick
00:59:01out on our own who are the good guys and who are the bad guys and just take a wild guess.
00:59:05Okay, George Weaver is a good guy.
00:59:08And then if it had been Jorge Navarro hadn't tested for something like this, we'd say,
00:59:12oh, he's a bad guy, throw the book at him.
00:59:15But Randy, it's disturbing.
00:59:17And I'm sure when it's all said and done, he won't have to serve two years, but he might
00:59:21have to serve six months or something when I think every ounce of conventional wisdom
00:59:26and common sense tells you he's not guilty.
00:59:28Well, hopefully he won't even have to serve six months.
00:59:30I mean, we all know George Weaver.
00:59:32We all like George Weaver.
00:59:33But look, it's not as if HISA is going after trainers.
00:59:38It's not like they're saying, okay, we're going to go after this George Weaver guy.
00:59:41Okay.
00:59:42The horse tested positive for metformin, which is a banned substance.
00:59:46And it was a banned substance even before HISA and HIWU came into existence.
00:59:52I mean, I think one of the things that we're seeing since HISA came online, I think we're
00:59:59seeing how bad the post-race testing was around the country prior to HISA.
01:00:06Right?
01:00:07I mean, they tested supposedly for metformin for years.
01:00:11And the positives for metformin with the same level you would think of environmental contamination,
01:00:15right?
01:00:16The same people taking diabetes drug, where it's very rare to see a metformin positive.
01:00:22And now all of a sudden, you know, with the improved, the enhanced testing, I think what
01:00:26you're seeing is, you know, obviously a lot more people testing positive for something
01:00:29like this.
01:00:30I mean, like you said, as much as we like George Weaver, you can't try to separate good
01:00:40guys from bad guys ahead of time.
01:00:42All right?
01:00:43These are good guys.
01:00:44They're going to be okay.
01:00:45We'll just give them a little slap on the wrist.
01:00:47These are the bad guys.
01:00:48If it happens to them, sorry.
01:00:50Right?
01:00:52I mean, there is no known therapeutic use for metformin in horses, which is why it's
01:00:57on the banned list.
01:00:59It's really kind of up in the air, really, whether it's got any performance enhancing
01:01:03qualities or not.
01:01:05If you Google metformin, it's all over the board.
01:01:07I don't think most people believe there's any performance enhancing qualities to it.
01:01:12Certainly don't believe that's why it was in George Weaver's horse's system.
01:01:17But look, I mean, in a situation like this, I mean, HISA and HIWU have already adjusted
01:01:23some of the rules to make it easier, to make it less expensive for trainers to contest
01:01:28this and say, look, the groom that took care of the horse is a diabetic.
01:01:33You know, here are all his prescriptions over the years.
01:01:35This was environmental contamination.
01:01:37I'm sure that's what Drew Mollica and his attorney and George Weaver are doing right
01:01:42now.
01:01:43And I'm pulling for George Weaver just like I know you two guys are.
01:01:48But you know, the simple fact of the matter is that horse racing is in this spot right
01:01:55now with HISA, with HIWU, with enhanced testing, with more serious rules, because the sport
01:02:02of horse racing did not clean up its own act over the years.
01:02:08And the state racing commissions were woefully inadequate in enforcing drug regulations.
01:02:14This is where we're at.
01:02:16And you know, I mean, that's that's the bottom line.
01:02:21And hopefully George Weaver can can can can fight this and come out on the right end of
01:02:26it as much as possible.
01:02:30What he said, exactly what he said, Randy, and you hit the nail on the head with the
01:02:35enhanced testing, because I've never heard I don't have diabetes.
01:02:39I've never heard of metformin.
01:02:40I'm like, what the hell is that?
01:02:42And now all I'm hearing is metformin.
01:02:44And yes, it's it started with Jonathan Wong.
01:02:48Jonathan's been out on the shelf since February.
01:02:51No one's screaming for him.
01:02:52Maybe they should have started screaming for him.
01:02:54Maybe George Weaver should have started screaming for him back in February.
01:02:58I truly believe that they're going to try and figure something out, at least with metformin.
01:03:03The one thing we've seen with Hivoo and Heisser is that they're adaptable and they have been
01:03:08able to change things around.
01:03:10Love them or hate them.
01:03:11But you hit the nail on the head with the advanced testing, enhanced testing, and the
01:03:16fact that horse racing itself has proven over and over the years that we can't police ourselves.
01:03:22We've been inadequate.
01:03:24We have not been able to police ourselves.
01:03:26So they've come in.
01:03:27Things are going to change.
01:03:28I truly believe that George Weaver is going to get turned around.
01:03:32It might serve 30 days.
01:03:34Let's hope that is going to happen.
01:03:36And we're going to see the contamination with metformin, the third largest prescribed drug
01:03:42in the world right now.
01:03:44They're just going to like X that off the sheet.
01:03:48So that's what I was hoping for.
01:03:50He was the seventh person to get a metformin positive.
01:03:54And you know, a lot of the other people would be in the same group where we would all sit
01:03:58around.
01:04:00Trainer X is a good guy.
01:04:02He never would have done anything like this.
01:04:04I had one suggestion, especially, Randy, that you said that you've researched it and looked
01:04:09at that.
01:04:10Nobody seems to be on the same page, whether or not it's a performance enhancing drug.
01:04:14So I mean, it's not like EPO or something like that, where you just know that it was
01:04:20put in the horse's system for no other reason than to get them to run faster.
01:04:24How about taking this particular drug and recategorizing it to the controlled substances,
01:04:30which are no big deal.
01:04:31When a guy gets a positive for that, they usually get like five days or something like
01:04:35that.
01:04:36And if George Weaver got a five day suspension for metformin, we say that's unfortunate.
01:04:39But you know, you don't have to disband your entire barn.
01:04:41You get certified days and everything will be fine.
01:04:44So I think that's something that HISA slash HIWU needs to look at.
01:04:48And it might wind up that way.
01:04:49I mean, Lisa Lazarus has been quoted as saying that one reason metformin is categorized where
01:04:54it's at is because of the ambiguity about whether or not it can have any performance
01:04:59enhancing qualities.
01:05:01Perhaps in the future, they'll put things on a scale and they'll weigh that uncertainty
01:05:06with all of these environmental contaminations from a commonly prescribed drug.
01:05:11And they'll decide to do exactly what you said.
01:05:14But in the meantime, you know, they've given trainers the avenue to try to fight this thing.
01:05:20And hopefully George Weaver can come out on the right end of it.
01:05:23He went out a winner, which is good to see.
01:05:25Crimson Advocate.
01:05:27At Gulfstream Park.
01:05:28That's right.
01:05:29And a little steak there.
01:05:32Do want to remind you that the TDM Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:05:36Now we touched on this earlier, the XBTV Work of the Week is not only domestic product,
01:05:43but also Sierra Leone seen working here together at Saratoga this past Saturday.
01:05:48Now Sierra Leone is on the inside.
01:05:51Chad must have been listening to me.
01:05:52But this horse on the inside is in the yellow shirt, not lugging in.
01:05:56And he's working along with domestic product who is on the outside.
01:06:00He's always the flashier workhorse of the two.
01:06:03And they zip around there.
01:06:04No problem whatsoever.
01:06:06You're watching the work.
01:06:07You're thinking that domestic product has got him right at the wire.
01:06:10But as always, Sierra Leone pops his head down to the ground and gallops out very nicely
01:06:16in front.
01:06:17Sierra Leone looks like he's Belmont bound.
01:06:20And we don't know where we'll see domestic product next time out, but they sure look
01:06:24good here.
01:06:50All the thrills.
01:07:02Fraction of the bills.
01:07:06Experience the power of the partnership.
01:07:12Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:07:19West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:07:23Visit westpointtb.com.
01:07:27The TD and Writer's Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds, which has been
01:07:31active this week along with Zoe, along with Michael Behrens at MyRacehorse, and the Fasig-Tipton
01:07:37Mid-Atlantic sale of two-year-olds in training at Timonium.
01:07:40You can see all of West Point's latest purchases at westpointtb.com.
01:07:46Now looking ahead on Saturday, West Point's five-year-old German bred mare, Atomic Blonde,
01:07:50tries to turn the tables on Chop Chop in the $250,000 Kirtana stakes at Churchill Lounge
01:07:56at a mile and a half on the turf.
01:07:58Chop Chop and Atomic Blonde finished 1-2 recently in the Bewitched stakes at Keeneland just
01:08:03last month.
01:08:04The European import, Atomic Blonde, owned in partnership by West Point as well as trainer
01:08:08Christophe Clement.
01:08:10Atomic Blonde is seeking her first graded victory, but has placed in six graded stakes,
01:08:16four of those in the United States.
01:08:18To learn how you can join the West Point family and perhaps be vaulted into the world of instant
01:08:23camaraderie, visit westpointtb.com.
01:08:31Well, that's a wrap on this week's show, and I want to thank my partners, Zoe Cabman and
01:08:35Randy Moss.
01:08:36I also want to thank our producers, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, and Aliyah LaRocca,
01:08:41and our new sponsor, Dude Wipes.