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00:00:30Welcome to another edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:34My name is Bill Finley. I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and the president of the Bookumdano Fan Club.
00:00:39In mourning right now, although he ran a hell of a race. We'll talk about that.
00:00:44I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, surrounded by stacks of charts and past performances and papers and books.
00:00:52And as I'm trying to get ready in desperation for the Breeders' Cut.
00:00:57I just want to know, do you like take three suitcases with you, Randy, for all your books?
00:01:02And just like, do you need a porter when you check in to your hotel at Del Mar?
00:01:07Back in the day, Zoe, I had these giant Home Depot plastic bins that would go in the network TV truck.
00:01:16Seriously?
00:01:17Oh, yeah. I had just loaded. I mean, they were like 200 pounds apiece.
00:01:22It took two guys to carry these bins out and I had three or four of them everywhere I went.
00:01:27But now, thankfully, there's been inventions like the iPad and it makes it makes life a lot easier.
00:01:34Although I've still got all these papers, it's transferring them from paper to the iPad now that becomes the problem.
00:01:40But I'm not going to do that.
00:01:41You seem old school. Like you're old school. You're still going to have all your papers.
00:01:45Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:01:47Yeah. But not bins and bins and bins of old blood horses.
00:01:52And no, not not anymore.
00:01:55All right. Can we move on and talk about horse racing here, if you don't?
00:01:59Yes. Yes.
00:02:01These weeks in and around the Breeders' Cup are very slow, very slow.
00:02:05Newsweek's generally not a lot of things happen on the racetrack that worth noting.
00:02:09But there was a race Saturday that I think everybody should be paying a lot of attention to.
00:02:14It's a fascinating story. Rated by Merit is owned by Vinnie Viola and won the second of the third leg in the Florida Stallion Series.
00:02:22It's going to win the next leg. He's undefeated, but he's his breeding here.
00:02:27Viola is the guy who goes to the sales, thinks nothing is spending nine million dollars on horses.
00:02:32The sire is twenty five hundred dollar sire.
00:02:35And they bought the dam at Keeneland November for nineteen thousand dollars.
00:02:39And look how he came up with his best horse.
00:02:41And, Randy, you can comment on this, too.
00:02:43He is now officially the fastest two year old of twenty twenty four as he got a ninety nine for that race at Gulfstream.
00:02:51Is he is he for real? Are we just getting too excited about him because he's beating up on bad company?
00:02:56Oh, I think he's totally for real. He got a ninety two buyer when he broke his maiden at Gulfstream.
00:03:00That's when he first burst onto the radar of horse players around the country and racing fans.
00:03:07And he won that by a poll. And then he won the Dr. Fager by six plus links with the ninety three buyer.
00:03:14And then he comes back with the ninety nine and all the horse that he's been running against in his last two starts.
00:03:19A horse by the name of Neo Equus trained by Saffy Joseph is inexpensive, but a pretty darn good horse himself.
00:03:28So rated by merit, he's not only a great story because of his background and his pedigree and things like that, but he's a very fast horse.
00:03:39Yeah, we're not getting ahead of ourselves whatsoever.
00:03:42I mean, a ninety nine by a speed figure is good enough in any books.
00:03:46I don't care if he's just running against Florida breads down there.
00:03:49And it's really a tribute towards Vinnie Viola's breeding program, Monique Delk, who oversees it for the late, great Jimmy Krupe.
00:03:58Like this is a team effort and it's just great to see it flourishing down there in Florida because Jimmy Krupe was just an amazing man.
00:04:07If you ever got to meet him, you were truly blessed.
00:04:09And that Monique, who was by his side every step of the way, has stepped into that role and done such a good job.
00:04:16Batillion Runner was around when Always Dreaming was around, but Always Dreaming kind of took some of his thunder.
00:04:22I believe he has 30 foals of racing age from a very small book.
00:04:27He stands privately at Ocala Stud, just 17 starters.
00:04:32So this is by far, obviously, his best horse to date.
00:04:36But just kudos to them down there in Florida.
00:04:40For both of you, should he be running in the Breeders' Cup?
00:04:44Or do you think they're doing the right thing by waiting till next year to go against Open Company?
00:04:49I think they're doing the right thing.
00:04:51Yes, exactly.
00:04:53Yeah.
00:04:55Zoe got into a lot of the background on this horse.
00:04:57I mean, he's apparently sort of like a personal favorite of Vinnie Viola and his wife, Teresa.
00:05:04So it's as much emotional as anything else.
00:05:06We talk about speed figures and rated by merit.
00:05:08When Batillion Runner broke his maiden at Gulfstream Park on New Year's Eve of 2016, he got a buyer speed figure of 98.
00:05:17Then he came back and he won an allowance race.
00:05:20Then they put him, they entered him actually in the Florida Derby, as well as Always Dreaming, who was co-owned by Vinnie Viola,
00:05:28as an insurance policy, just in case Always Dreaming was injured or got sick and couldn't make the Florida Derby.
00:05:35Always Dreaming went on to win the Florida Derby.
00:05:37So they scratched Batillion Runner, rerouted him to the Wood Memorial, where he was second to Irish War Cry,
00:05:43and finished in front of Cloud Computing, who went on to win the Preakness.
00:05:46Then the wheels kind of came off Batillion Runner.
00:05:49He had a series of ailments.
00:05:51They finally retired him in September of his three-year-old year.
00:05:54And Viola decided, I'm going to make this horse a stud.
00:05:57I like this horse.
00:05:58Sent him to Ocala.
00:06:00He hasn't been bred to many mares, but this is a nice horse.
00:06:05Bill, did you see what he did?
00:06:09I was halfway down the rabbit hole and Randy just came up behind me.
00:06:14And he just ran me over and took off.
00:06:19I was in that hole.
00:06:21I was in the rabbit hole.
00:06:22Do you see that?
00:06:23I can go farther down.
00:06:26The damn banner waving, he traces back to Up the Flagpole, who was one of the best brood mares of the late 19th, 20th century.
00:06:35But I could go deeper.
00:06:37But I pulled up, Zoe.
00:06:38I pulled up.
00:06:39All right.
00:06:40Saving your best stuff for the NBC broadcast.
00:06:43So a really good guy and a good jockey, Rajiv Marat, came back and rode Sunday at Gulfstream.
00:06:50It was his first ride in two and a half years.
00:06:53People may not remember him because he was sort of out of sight, out of mind.
00:06:56He was never a top jockey in New York, but he was in the top six or seven.
00:07:00He was somebody who won a lot of races.
00:07:04It's great to see him back, a very nice guy.
00:07:06I texted him because I thought he must have got hurt.
00:07:09It says, Hi, Bill.
00:07:10Nice to hear from you.
00:07:11I stepped away to diversify myself outside of horse racing.
00:07:14I co-founded Road Jockey LLC, which is a tech development company and also the franchisor of the Road Jockey e-commerce marketplace.
00:07:21Our J-L-L-C clients include Metastride Horse Owners World and Courier Driva Limited.
00:07:26There's a misconception that was due to injury.
00:07:28Let me know if you want to talk about it.
00:07:29So he was not injured.
00:07:30He just decided to do something else.
00:07:33But I guess, Zoe and you obviously are the best to talk about that.
00:07:37Does that bug take a hard time to go away?
00:07:40Like, you know, when you think, geez, maybe I'll give this one more try?
00:07:44Yeah, I guess it does.
00:07:45And, you know, he's either got a baby that just arrived or one that's imminently coming along.
00:07:51I know he already has one child already with his wife.
00:07:54And, I mean, I've got to be perfectly honest.
00:07:57I don't get it.
00:07:59He was very good on the telecast with Fox this summer.
00:08:02I know he wants to be in Florida full time.
00:08:06He's got a house down there.
00:08:08But, I mean, he's obviously a smart guy.
00:08:10He's got a bright future beyond horse racing.
00:08:12And at the end of the day, it's goddamn dangerous out there.
00:08:16You've got a baby that's just arriving and you have an opportunity to have a safe life sitting at the desk.
00:08:25I don't get it.
00:08:26I wish him the best of luck on his quest to 2000.
00:08:30But, I mean, part of me is like, why?
00:08:32It's such a dangerous game that you're playing.
00:08:35And, yes, I do get the bug and everything else that goes with it.
00:08:40But he's a smart guy that has plenty of opportunities to do other things.
00:08:45And it's not like he's 25.
00:08:48Do you know what I mean?
00:08:49I don't get it.
00:08:50I wish him all the best luck in the world, Rajiv.
00:08:53I really do.
00:08:54Yeah, and he's not far away to get 2000, 1939.
00:08:57So, I appreciate your honesty on that.
00:09:00That was a very good answer.
00:09:02And, you know, having never ridden a horse, obviously, you know, I can't feel what it's like compared to you.
00:09:07But I agree.
00:09:08Jerry Bailey would tell me, I was talking about back when he was still just retired.
00:09:13He said, Roger Clemens, steroided out of his mind, was coming back every year and winning 20 games and everything.
00:09:20And I said, Jerry, why would you quit, ever quit?
00:09:23Why don't you do what Clemens does?
00:09:25He's still throwing 100 miles an hour at 42 years old.
00:09:28He says, because when he goes home at the end of the day, there's no chance it's going to be in an ambulance.
00:09:33And for me, there is that chance, and I'm not going to take it anymore.
00:09:38Yeah, but Jerry was, what, 48, 49 years old, something like that, when he decided to retire.
00:09:44You know, I think the 300-pound gorilla in the room here, and look, I love Rajiv.
00:09:48I mean, he's one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet.
00:09:51When he was riding at his very best and winning a lot of races, you could tell by talking to him, he was one of the more intelligent guys in the jockstroom.
00:09:59He's showing that now with his success in the business world in the Caribbean.
00:10:03But when he stepped away, it's not like, you know, he was in demand to ride all these grade one stakes winners in New York.
00:10:11His career had kind of taken a bit of a nosedive.
00:10:14So it was easier, I think, for him to make the decision at that point to step away than if he was making all these millions of dollars a year riding.
00:10:23So I think that's part of the story as well, but it's nice to see him back, if that's what he wants to do.
00:10:30Well, certainly seems like that is what he wants to do, and I wish him well.
00:10:33And let's hope that he wins a lot of races and stays safe.
00:10:37That's the story of Rajiv Moran.
00:10:40I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:10:44Now listen up, the catalogue for the inaugural Keeneland Champion Sale to be held the Wednesday before the Breeders' Cup in the Del Mar Paddock is out.
00:10:53And it features 12 exciting offerings.
00:10:56Among the offerings is a 50% interest in the dirt mile bound Mufasa, a 25% interest in grade one winner Gold Phoenix,
00:11:06who is being pointed towards the turf, and a 25% interest in Kilwin in the juvenile fillies turf.
00:11:14But there's also something for Bill Finlay.
00:11:17Listen to this.
00:11:18A 25% interest in none other than Bookham Danner.
00:11:22We should play the drinking game with this one.
00:11:24Every time you mention Bookham Danner, we should drink.
00:11:27All right.
00:11:28Well, this is your chance.
00:11:29Randy, what are you going to get Bill for Christmas?
00:11:32Have you booked him for Christmas?
00:11:35I mean, 25%?
00:11:37I think we should pitch in and get Bill a quarter of 1% of Bookham Danner.
00:11:45And you know what?
00:11:47I can't afford it no matter what.
00:11:49But I don't think he's going to sell for that much because he's a gelding.
00:11:53People want to go.
00:11:55Over under a million dollars.
00:11:57What do you think, Zoe?
00:11:59I'm going to plead the fifth on this one because I absolutely have no clue.
00:12:04But I know a lot of people will be interested.
00:12:06And if you are, you can go to find out more at championship.keeneland.com.
00:12:13Bill will be the first one on that.
00:12:15He's writing it down right there.
00:12:16I'm going to say slightly under since he's a gelding and he's a sprinter.
00:12:20Yeah.
00:12:21Okay.
00:12:22Eight?
00:12:23Are we thinking eight?
00:12:24Over under eight for Bill.
00:12:25Yeah.
00:12:26Yeah.
00:12:27That's good.
00:12:28All right.
00:12:29So can somebody lend me $200,000 to get involved?
00:12:32I'll pay you back.
00:12:33I'll be good for it.
00:12:34Yeah.
00:12:35Looking for bloodstock that shapes the world?
00:12:38You can find it here.
00:12:40Foundation mares that will shape the breed.
00:12:44Weanlings with prime potential.
00:12:46Your next moment in the winner's circle.
00:12:49It's all waiting for you here at the world's marketplace.
00:12:53Keeneland November breeding stock sale.
00:12:55Where the future is found.
00:12:58Beginning Tuesday, November 5th.
00:13:07The fastest source of the week this week is going to be pretty interesting to a lot of people.
00:13:10And as always, it's brought to you by this time one of the new fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:13:16And that would be Heartland.
00:13:18Brand new for 2025 in the Stallion Barn at Windstar.
00:13:21He has a champion's pedigree.
00:13:22Heartland is by justify.
00:13:24And he's out of the dam of former two-year-old champion Classic Empire.
00:13:28He was also a TV and rising star back in the day when he scored a very impressive debut win at Del Mar going five and a half furlongs.
00:13:37That was faster by the speed figures, Heartland's debut win, than any other two-year-old at Saratoga or Del Mar that summer.
00:13:45He got a 90 buyer speed figure, which ties him with just steel for the fastest of any of the justify two-year-olds.
00:13:53Or at least that year.
00:13:55He's the second fastest justify two-year-old ever behind only Arabian Lion.
00:14:00And Heartland will stand at Windstar for a fee of only $10,000.
00:14:05And as they like to say at Windstar, breeding to Heartland is justifiable.
00:14:11Now for the fastest horse of the week.
00:14:14He ran at Santa Anita.
00:14:16He ran in the first race on Saturday.
00:14:19And he ran the fastest buyer speed figure of any horse this year in Southern California.
00:14:26His name is Accuracy.
00:14:28And he won a maiden race at a mile and a 16th at Santa Anita by 15 lengths with a buyer speed figure of 108.
00:14:37Owned by Mike Rapoli.
00:14:39Trained by Mike McCarthy.
00:14:41Went to the lead.
00:14:42Opened up.
00:14:43Drew off at will.
00:14:44Now the racetrack was playing very strongly.
00:14:47Appeared to be on paper in favor of inside speed.
00:14:50But how good might Accuracy be with that 108 buyer speed figure?
00:14:56He is, or she rather, I say he.
00:14:58It's a she.
00:14:59It's a three-year-old filly.
00:15:01Okay.
00:15:02And Accuracy is a daughter of Arrowgate out of a mare named Bickerson's who once upon a time ran for Kelly Breen in New Jersey and New York.
00:15:11And actually competed in the Breeders' Cup juvenile fillies.
00:15:14So there's some pedigree there as well for Accuracy, the three-year-old filly that is our fastest horse of the week.
00:15:20Welcome in now the guest of the week, trainer Chad Brown.
00:15:30And obviously with the Breeders' Cup coming up, his stable is very busy.
00:15:33Chad, I think I got this right that you have eight horses pointing for the Breeders' Cup.
00:15:37We can go over the list a little bit later if I missed any.
00:15:39But as a group, as a whole, I mean, you've had a lot of really good Breeders' Cups.
00:15:44Could this be your best group you've ever brought into the Breeders' Cup?
00:15:47Well, it's not the most I brought in there.
00:15:49But overall, top to bottom, there's a chance it could be, particularly with my dirt horses.
00:15:55I've never brought in this many live dirt horses, I'd say.
00:15:59I've been stronger in different years on the turf, though.
00:16:02Chad, before we really dive into your horses, I noticed you have a beautiful backdrop there.
00:16:07And there's a big, shiny silver trophy right behind you and an Eclipse Award.
00:16:12Which ones are those on display over your right shoulder?
00:16:15Oh, they're just different.
00:16:17That big Eclipse Award is Lady Eli over there.
00:16:20And the shiny one is one of those.
00:16:24It's from Belmont Park, a leading trainer.
00:16:27Different stuff through the years I've been lucky enough to get.
00:16:29So we put it somewhere.
00:16:31This is probably the only chance people get.
00:16:36So Lady Eli, she obviously holds a place near and dear in your heart.
00:16:40Would she be like the number one in your heart going forward?
00:16:45Yeah, her, bricks and mortar, probably.
00:16:47I mean, he was a great horse.
00:16:49I want to talk about trophies.
00:16:50I want to give a shout-out to Mr. Duchessois, who was a great guy.
00:16:54The Arlington Million Trophy right there.
00:16:57Wow.
00:16:58That's the best trophy that you would ever get as a trainer.
00:17:01I can attest to that.
00:17:03It is a fabulous trophy.
00:17:05He was a super, super class guy.
00:17:08Not only did he have one of the cleanest, nicest facilities, he gave you the nicest trophy.
00:17:13And they brought that thing in a brink truck with two people.
00:17:16It was a big formal delivery every year if you were lucky enough to get it.
00:17:20And always top class, Mr. Duchessois.
00:17:24So that's one of the – those trophies are my favorite, the Million.
00:17:29Chad, I was talking to you a couple of weeks ago, and you had a criticism,
00:17:33which I think is well worth going over again,
00:17:36that the Philly and Mayer Turf Race is around three turns this year,
00:17:39and a mile and three-eighths.
00:17:41And you pointed out that the American grass fillies have no other races like this.
00:17:45So it's kind of like you're sticking them in a situation where they would be unfamiliar to it,
00:17:49maybe an advantage to the Europeans.
00:17:51Does that still bother you a little bit, and did it affect any of the way you place your horses?
00:17:55Yeah, it does bother me.
00:17:57I've been a very active participant in the Breeders' Cup.
00:18:02I consider them one of my business partners.
00:18:05That's how I think of things with people I do business with in this industry.
00:18:09And they put on a wonderful event.
00:18:10It's evolved tremendously through the years.
00:18:13I have so many compliments.
00:18:14But with that decision, and I've been told it's because of the tight turns at the track.
00:18:18And I understand when you move venues around, the tracks are configured different.
00:18:22And there's certain distances you just can't do.
00:18:26I get it.
00:18:27But I just can't understand why you're going to have Championship Day for that division,
00:18:35Philly Bears on the Turf, and the race is carded at a distance that there's not one grade one the whole year in this country for Philly Bears on the Turf.
00:18:46So how can you call it a championship race?
00:18:49And there's got to be some give and take there.
00:18:52And I understand there's European races that are, but there certainly isn't an American.
00:18:57We're hosting it.
00:18:58And have it at three turns as well.
00:19:00So it doesn't make any sense to me.
00:19:03They had it a mile and a half years ago.
00:19:05And actually Euro won the race.
00:19:07So at Del Mar.
00:19:09So it doesn't make any sense to me.
00:19:12And I'm disappointed they didn't even ask me for an opinion on that.
00:19:16Someone has won the race several times.
00:19:18And I run a lot of horses.
00:19:20I'll never understand that decision.
00:19:23That being said, who are you pointing to that race?
00:19:28Nobody.
00:19:29Nobody.
00:19:30Okay.
00:19:31No, I don't.
00:19:32It's not a race I was going to point towards.
00:19:37And look, when I say that, I'm not acting pouty about it.
00:19:40I've won the race at a mile and three-sixteenths.
00:19:44I've won the race at a mile and a quarter.
00:19:46And I've won the race at a mile and three-eighths at Churchill.
00:19:48So I've won the race at all the distances.
00:19:50So it's not that we don't some years have a horse that can win it.
00:19:54I just don't.
00:19:56To have no races that lead up to the race that are great ones, in America,
00:20:01generally, there are slower horses that are running in there.
00:20:04Those are the B horses.
00:20:06The top fillies and mares on the turf, as you all know from covering the sport
00:20:09as closely as you do, are between a mile and a mile and a quarter for fillies
00:20:14and mares, around two turns, all the great ones.
00:20:17So, no, unless I have a Euro sort of transplant to me and the connections
00:20:23want to run, I'm not interested in running in the race around three turns anymore.
00:20:27I don't campaign my grade-one fillies and mares on the turf all season in America
00:20:32in two-turn races to then experiment in a three-turn race for Championship Day.
00:20:37I'm not going to do it.
00:20:40That being said, you do have several Euro imports, including Zulu Kingdom,
00:20:45who, to me, it looks like he might give you a heart attack every time he runs
00:20:49because he just seems to get there in time.
00:20:52How good do you feel he really is up against some of the best that Europe
00:20:56could be bringing over?
00:20:58Yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly what's coming over.
00:21:00I've always just focused on just getting my horse to the race if I think they fit.
00:21:04The horses came into me in super condition, you know, little adjustment to training
00:21:10our way and get into our program, but physically the horse looks great,
00:21:13but he came into me that way.
00:21:15He was a well-trained horse early in his career.
00:21:18We're lucky enough to get him.
00:21:20Yeah, he's had a couple of close finishes there, but I'm so proud of him at his age.
00:21:24He gets pocketed up and travels behind horses like an older horse and has a good kick.
00:21:30I even think a slight cutback to a mile will actually benefit him.
00:21:34I just feel like he's got a very strong kick.
00:21:38It might not be that far, and at a mile with just a little more pace in front of him,
00:21:43I think we'll see even a better version of him.
00:21:46Do we know who's going to ride him yet?
00:21:47Because Joel rode him last time and then Pratt rode him the time before.
00:21:50Is that secret information?
00:21:52No, I'll tell you right now.
00:21:54Pratt's going to ride the horse back.
00:21:56He couldn't be there that day because he had obligation out of town that he let me know
00:22:00very much in advance for, so we're going to give him that mile back.
00:22:04That always works its way out because Joel's been great for us,
00:22:08and oftentimes the ball lands his way too, so I have plenty of stuff down the road for him.
00:22:15Chad, I was wondering about Sierra Leone.
00:22:17He was so highly regarded earlier in the year, has had some bad luck,
00:22:21but getting him to the winner's circle has not been easy to achieve.
00:22:25You've given him a nice long layoff.
00:22:27How does he look coming into this race?
00:22:29His little quirks and eccentricities, they're still something that worry you.
00:22:33Yeah, he's doing super.
00:22:36I think he's been probably lost in the eye of maybe the media as far as where he stands
00:22:45within the crop because he hasn't really come through this summer from the derby on,
00:22:49but all those races have been at Saratoga, and at the end of the day,
00:22:53he ran solid races, but he never quite ran the same over that track.
00:22:57I'm not going to make excuses.
00:22:59All the horses need to run over the same track.
00:23:01I chose to run them there three times.
00:23:03I liked them in all three races.
00:23:05Of course, he's been training super, but looking back on it and all his races,
00:23:10they do seem to be, even though his figures would suggest he's running as fast as ever,
00:23:15visually, the last part of his race, he hasn't been quite a win candidate near the wire
00:23:22like he was in all of his other starts.
00:23:24I'm looking forward to get him away from Saratoga.
00:23:28Del Mar can be tricky.
00:23:30Obviously, it's a bit of a shorter stretch.
00:23:32It tends to favor a speedier horse.
00:23:34I do wish it was at Santa Anita this year.
00:23:36I think that might play a little fair.
00:23:38However, he's never run there, and he very well may love the track,
00:23:44and if the pace sets up the right way, I do expect him to run well.
00:23:48We've moved him down to Belmont, and really the horse has been training terrific.
00:23:53I'm actually taken back on how consistent and durable he is to have breezed this last week
00:23:59as good as he breezed the week before the derby.
00:24:02No different, and it's hard for a horse to maintain that form in the mornings.
00:24:08Yeah, he's a dude.
00:24:10Chancellor Patrick, I had the privilege of I always seem to grab you right at the beginning
00:24:15of the Saratoga meet and be like, hey, Chad, who's your best two-year-old?
00:24:19Who do you like? Who do you like?
00:24:20And in fairness to you, you're like, I've got this McKenzie colt, and I really like him.
00:24:25I've got three McKenzies, but there's this one colt, and it was him.
00:24:30Chancellor Patrick, do you feel like you've been justified because you have liked him
00:24:36from day one, and to do what he's done in a short period of time,
00:24:40it looks like sky's the limit for him.
00:24:43Yeah, well, thank you. Normally you're telling me by about week two or three
00:24:47who my best horses are, and you're normally right.
00:24:50So it's nice when it works out.
00:24:54When horses run to their early works, eventually when they get to the races,
00:24:58it's nice for a trainer. And through the years, I've had some special horses.
00:25:01After just a work or two, they look exceptional. Jack Christopher comes to mind.
00:25:05Ways and Means comes to mind. Those horses look terrific right off the bat,
00:25:09which is oftentimes you change your mind.
00:25:12We get more pressure on the two-year-olds and get them further along in the works.
00:25:15This guy was a star from day one, and he ranks way up there.
00:25:20From the horses that I've had win the champagne and then going to the Breeders' Cup,
00:25:24he certainly feels like the best chance we've had.
00:25:27He's another horse like the last horse we spoke about, Sierra Leone.
00:25:30He's going to Del Mar. He's likely to give himself a lot of work to do
00:25:33because he's not a fast horse early.
00:25:36But he has a really strong plate kick, and he has a mind like a three-year-old.
00:25:41I've said it in a few different interviews, but for a trainer training two-year-olds,
00:25:46when you have a horse that's advanced a whole year in their mind dealing with them,
00:25:51it gives you a huge advantage when you put them in the starting gate.
00:25:55This guy trains like he's an older horse, which is nothing that we've taught him to do.
00:25:59That's just him.
00:26:02Does it concern you? Because I watched him intently in his last race.
00:26:06He broke with the field, but he just drops back.
00:26:10He's like, OK, you guys, go ahead. I'll give you a few minutes head start
00:26:14because I know I'm going to run you down. But how much of a concern is that for you?
00:26:18Do you feel you can change it or you're going to leave him?
00:26:22Yeah. So a horse like this, in his last race, he finally broke clean like you said.
00:26:29In his first two, I said, well, maybe it's because he's had trouble leaving the gate.
00:26:34Even in the hopeful, a jockey lost both of his stirrups leaving the gate.
00:26:37So those are good excuses. But last time, he broke right with the field,
00:26:40and they did run him off his feet a little bit.
00:26:43You hope with more racing experience, he just gradually gets a little sharper.
00:26:49Just the pace alone will put him closer in his races.
00:26:52That's what I hope happens. As long as he keeps running well and winning,
00:26:56I'm not looking to change too much or insert myself into the process
00:27:02or overemphasize myself in the process too much with horses.
00:27:05If they're doing well, happy with what they're doing,
00:27:08although I would love him to have a better position,
00:27:11I'm not going to go ahead and try to be too creative there.
00:27:16We'll see how he does over there. As he gets on the trail next year,
00:27:19if he's good and healthy, we'll just see how he does.
00:27:22If we need to make any adjustments, we'll try it.
00:27:25Chad, none of your horses will be big prices, but is there someone among your team
00:27:30that you think is going to run better than their odds suggest?
00:27:33Who's going to be your surprise horse on Saturday?
00:27:36I know this guy's getting ready for a big one.
00:27:38Yeah, that's a great question because they're all likely to take a lot of money.
00:27:47I would say domestic product, this horse, I'm taken back on that one,
00:27:55how much he's improved. I always liked the horse.
00:28:00You can see with his form, I haven't always managed him directly.
00:28:05He sprinted, he's going six furlongs. We loved him.
00:28:09Then he didn't run well.
00:28:11Then I ran him a mile and eight, which I never stretch him out that far
00:28:14due to other circumstances. He got sick and the race didn't go.
00:28:20I took him to Tampa. I don't use that track a lot for my dirt horses.
00:28:25Now I have him in a place at a distance we know that he likes.
00:28:32He's just training out of his mind.
00:28:36I didn't know he had it in him to train this spectacularly.
00:28:39Arguably, it's the best training horse I have.
00:28:42Can he go two turns? I think so.
00:28:45We did cross center him in the sprint just to take a look.
00:28:48I am planning on running him a mile.
00:28:50He's undefeated at one turn in the maiden race that was three quarters,
00:28:54but he's certainly better at one turn between the Dwyer and the Jerkins.
00:28:58He has won it two turns in the Tampa Derby.
00:29:02If there's a good pace, it looks to be one of the more competitive races on the car,
00:29:06the dirt mile. We're going into one of the tougher races.
00:29:10I don't know exactly where he'll follow the wagering,
00:29:13but it looks to be a good race to wager on. I quite like the horse.
00:29:17It looks like it's going to be probably one of the best betting races on the card.
00:29:21Let's talk about the other mile, the turf mile, the mile with Carl Spackler going in.
00:29:26This is never an easy race whatsoever, but he's obviously coming into it at the top of his game.
00:29:32Yeah, he really is this horse.
00:29:35He's another horse that's gotten just a little bit faster and better than I would have even hoped or expected.
00:29:42I always thought he was going to be a grade one horse at some point.
00:29:46We quite liked the horse before he ever ran,
00:29:49but he's got the level now to be contending for a Breeders' Cup race.
00:29:54That's even a little higher than I thought he'd get to. I'm so proud of the horse.
00:29:58He's just doing super and he's got a good shot.
00:30:01In that race, we ended up pre-entering two more horses in there.
00:30:05Gina Romantica ended up getting pre-entered in there.
00:30:07We're going to discuss that more with Mr. Brandt and Chili Flag,
00:30:10which will be her last race with us.
00:30:12She's due to sell at Fazzy Tipton a couple of days after the Breeders' Cup.
00:30:18Those connections wanted to give it one more race with her before we sell her.
00:30:22We'll see how they do.
00:30:24Chad, let's talk about ways and means.
00:30:26She's obviously a very talented filly.
00:30:28Some trainers, and I think this has grown more so over the last few years,
00:30:32are reluctant to run three-year-olds against older horses.
00:30:36She's a three-year-old. She won the test. She's very, very good.
00:30:39Did at any point you ever say,
00:30:41no, I'm going to wait until next year for the Breeders' Cup?
00:30:43Yeah, that's a great question.
00:30:45I did think about that in the summer.
00:30:47Owner Seth Plarman and I talked about her prior to the test,
00:30:50thinking she had a couple little minor things after the Oaks.
00:30:55I said, well, if we can just get her to the test and she does good in there,
00:30:58let's maybe put her away until next year.
00:31:00We did talk about that.
00:31:02Then I just said, she came out of the race pretty good.
00:31:05Let's just take it week to week.
00:31:06We really didn't zero in on the Breeders' Cup until maybe a month from the test.
00:31:12I said, no, let's prep her in a race against older horses and see how she does there.
00:31:19She's just maintained great form.
00:31:22I think it's well worth a chance, even against older.
00:31:26It's going to be a tough race.
00:31:28I think the other key to her could be the draw.
00:31:30I think this filly is much better in the clear.
00:31:32If she can draw towards the outside and work out a trip with clean silks and clean face,
00:31:37I think it gives her the best chance.
00:31:40What are your shipping plans, Chad?
00:31:42I know Asmussen's coming early.
00:31:44How are you getting here and when are you arriving?
00:31:47I feel like trainers have their own feeling or preference or routine that works for them.
00:31:54I've seen that through the years.
00:31:56For me, I like going in the week of the race.
00:31:58When I work for Franco, that's what he always did for big events.
00:32:02I like to do all my main training at my home base, which is usually Belmont.
00:32:07I launch from there.
00:32:10I don't like doing any local works.
00:32:13Unless it's Derby week, that's a whole different animal.
00:32:16Outside of that, I never work locally for races.
00:32:20My preference is to ship the week of.
00:32:22All the final works will be this weekend.
00:32:25On that Sunday and Monday with a couple of different flights, all the horses will get there.
00:32:29Chad, you've won about everything there is to win, but two major things are not on your resume.
00:32:34The Kentucky Derby and the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:32:36Which one do you want to win more at this point?
00:32:38The Classic, actually, I'm going to win this year.
00:32:41The best ship has sailed this year.
00:32:44I guess the Classic, for right now, to be in position with a horse that I really feel when the gates open,
00:32:51I'm watching the race with a chance to win.
00:32:54In these Breeders' Cup races, I try to bring horses that are competitive and can win.
00:33:00I feel like I have a good group led by him in the richest race on the card.
00:33:06Then after the Breeders' Cup, we'll start looking at those two-year-old colts to see who's in there to give us some hope.
00:33:13Like you said, two races at the very, very top of my list.
00:33:17My team, they would love to win either of them.
00:33:20Chad, you've become a big supporter of Flavian Pratt.
00:33:23You've given him mounts on most of your horses now.
00:33:26When did you start to see that he was the rider you wanted to be involved with, and what has he meant to your program?
00:33:32I've used him a little bit here and there.
00:33:34When he got the mount on domestic spending, and I got to work with him more on that horse,
00:33:40I held it in high, high regard.
00:33:44Irad actually had a choice between Colonel Liam and him, and that's one race he chose for the horse.
00:33:52He sort of opened the door for Flavian to start working with him.
00:33:57That happens sometimes.
00:33:59No disrespect to him, because we try to give him as many mounts as we can, too.
00:34:04Irad and our team have had an unbelievable partnership, and that's still going on strong.
00:34:12But when I started to work with him with that horse, that really had me communicating with him more.
00:34:21The more I did, the more I started to pay attention to what was going on, and the more opportunities he started to get in our barn.
00:34:28He's made the most of them.
00:34:31First and foremost, he's a gentleman.
00:34:33He's so easy to work with.
00:34:35He's so easy to communicate with my clients in the paddock and such, pre-race and post-race.
00:34:42He just works at it.
00:34:44He wants to get better.
00:34:45I remember asking him, you're going to move all the way to the East Coast?
00:34:48You have your pick of everything on the West Coast.
00:34:53He said, I want to win an Eclipse Award.
00:34:55I don't think I have enough.
00:34:57There's not enough horses to go around out West to compete nationally for an Eclipse Award.
00:35:02This is what I want to do.
00:35:04We're happy to have partnered with him, at least on some of his success.
00:35:09Not nearly all of it.
00:35:11He's won so many big races without the help of our barn.
00:35:14But our partnership certainly has contributed to him being in position to get his first Eclipse Award.
00:35:19I'm very happy for him if that happens.
00:35:23Yeah, he's definitely in line for an Eclipse Award.
00:35:26Have you ever seen him drive a harness horse?
00:35:28He's pretty damn good on one of those as well.
00:35:30When he had that charity event over there, I started with Stainer Bridge way, way, way back.
00:35:34We talked about that a little bit.
00:35:36I went over there last year to Saratoga to see him.
00:35:39If this jockey thing doesn't work out, he's got a full book of mounts.
00:35:47One more question for me.
00:35:49You won your first Breeders' Cup race in 2008 with Maram right here at Santa Anita.
00:35:55You've won, I think, 18 or 19 since.
00:35:58Do you ever just sit down, maybe look at your trophies and just look around and be like,
00:36:03boy, what a ride.
00:36:05What a ride it's been.
00:36:07And you're still so young.
00:36:09No, you know what?
00:36:11You know what?
00:36:12Honestly, the game, it moves so fast.
00:36:16There's so many things going on.
00:36:18It's nice to have them.
00:36:19They really only turn out for something like this.
00:36:22The trophy's out.
00:36:26No, really, you don't have time.
00:36:28Everything moves so fast.
00:36:29I mean, don't get me wrong.
00:36:33Our team internally does take some time to enjoy the accomplishments.
00:36:39We share in the celebration and the accolades and such, as you've seen through the years with my team.
00:36:45And there's a great appreciation for it.
00:36:48And certainly, we have some downtime in the winter.
00:36:51You see my program.
00:36:52You see I don't run a whole lot in the winter, particularly down south.
00:36:55And I'm lucky I can have it that way now.
00:36:58But you're always moving forward.
00:37:00You're always trying to, you know, look at this Breeders' Cup.
00:37:04I mean, every year, you have the Breeders' Cup, and you blink, and two days later, these horses are retired or sold, or you're saying goodbye to them.
00:37:12It's really hard.
00:37:13It's a rollercoaster of emotion.
00:37:15So, we just try to stay in the middle, you know, emotionally and not get too high or too low.
00:37:21But, you know, when there's a little quiet time to reflect on what we've done through the years, and we have a lot of the same team members from the first Breeders' Cup to the 18th,
00:37:32it's nice to feel that sense of accomplishment as a team.
00:37:36Yeah.
00:37:37Chad, how record-oriented are you?
00:37:39Like, how much do you pay attention to, you know, the very things that we've been talking about?
00:37:43I mean, there's some of these races out there, like the Philly Merit Turf Races.
00:37:46You've won six out of the last seven years, and you're a young guy.
00:37:50I mean, you're going to be around for a long, long time to come.
00:37:52You know, do you ever envision 25 years from now, and, you know, that trophy case behind you, you'll need six of them?
00:38:02You know, I don't.
00:38:05The nice thing about what you just said is when I'm getting interviewed after a race, and whoever's interviewing me might say,
00:38:11this is the seventh year in a row or seventh out of eighth your team won it.
00:38:15I get more satisfaction or a smile out of me when I hear that when I didn't know it.
00:38:20So, no, look at it.
00:38:21Like this Athenia race you won the other day.
00:38:24You know, I was told in the winner's circle about that.
00:38:27I said, I didn't know we won that race that many times.
00:38:30I just, moving forward, it's not that I don't appreciate it.
00:38:33It's just that I think if you just keep looking forward and not dwelling too much on what you accomplished,
00:38:39you just, things sort of rack up, you know, the wins or the accomplishments and such.
00:38:44And we just always just trying to spot the horses, take good care of them, put them in the right races, service our clients.
00:38:51I want to make sure they're happy and just sort of moving along.
00:38:54But, yeah, there's a time and a place to sort of reflect or sometimes I'll read in an article
00:39:00and I will get some satisfaction there for a moment and say, wow, I didn't.
00:39:05I might even look back and say, no, I test my memory.
00:39:08You think I'm, you're saying young.
00:39:09I feel like my memory is going a little bit.
00:39:11So, before I look it up, which horse is won?
00:39:15And I don't always get it.
00:39:16So, I got to go back.
00:39:19Very good.
00:39:20You, just one quick one.
00:39:22Sorry, we could keep you here all day.
00:39:24You mentioned being quiet in the winter with Belmont Park.
00:39:28It's a long way away.
00:39:29Opening back up and say, 26 and then having an all weather track for the winter.
00:39:33Could you envision yourself leaving some horses in New York year round?
00:39:38I do leave horses in New York.
00:39:40It's a great question.
00:39:41I'm happy you asked me that.
00:39:42I do leave horses year round in New York, but it'll just change what I leave in New York.
00:39:49Right.
00:39:50What won't change is with the synthetic track, and it's been brought up at some meetings with horsemen and such.
00:39:57I think the feeling was initially before I showed up and spoke at one, like, oh, I'm all for the synthetic track because I'm a turf trainer.
00:40:05Not true.
00:40:06The synthetic would be safer in the winter, and it allows Naira to install a dirt track that's probably better from April to December, but it's freezable.
00:40:17If you have a track that doesn't freeze, a dirt track, it's likely not as good a track in the summer because it's sort of a winterized track you're running on all year.
00:40:28That's my reason for supporting.
00:40:30Not that I'm probably going off more than you want me to, but if anyone listening wants to hear my view on it, I'll tell you.
00:40:35The synthetic track provides you a chance to shut the main track down on the dirt and have a better track with a clay sort of base under it that's freezable.
00:40:46The winter racing will change, for sure, with synthetic.
00:40:50I'll leave a different type of horse in there.
00:40:52I've always left horses in New York all winter and supported it.
00:40:54It'll just be a different type of horse.
00:40:56Will I be leaving high-level turf horses in there because there's a synthetic track and maybe a small stakes program?
00:41:03No, I won't change what I'm doing.
00:41:05My higher-level turf horses won't be racing in New York all winter on synthetic.
00:41:10Chad, that was terrific.
00:41:12Best of luck in the Breeders' Cup.
00:41:1419 career wins.
00:41:16I would imagine you might win a couple more next week.
00:41:20Great to talk to you.
00:41:21Thanks so much.
00:41:22Good luck out at Del Mar.
00:41:24I'm happy to have any time.
00:41:25Keep up the good work.
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00:43:26Leads us into this week's edition of First Things First.
00:43:29Now this week, I was kind of thinking, well, who am I going to get?
00:43:32And he popped up on my screen as a work, and it was Eagles Flight.
00:43:37Who, I hear you say, Bill's like, who the hell's Eagles Flight?
00:43:40Well, of course, he's the half-brother to Flightline, and I called up the trainer,
00:43:44John Sadler, just to find out, where's he been, John?
00:43:54Look at this, John and Doodle.
00:43:55John, a quick little chat about Eagles Flight.
00:43:59How's he doing? Where's he been? Where's he going?
00:44:01He's doing great. He had a beautiful work last week,
00:44:05and he's training towards the start of Santa Anita.
00:44:08He hasn't picked a race yet, but he's coming back really strong.
00:44:13Do we know, did he just need time between his starts?
00:44:17What was going on with him?
00:44:18He had a little issue, so we had to give him a break, but he's doing great now.
00:44:24What does he look like now? Is he filled out, grown up?
00:44:27He looks really well. He's a good-looking horse.
00:44:31He looks like himself.
00:44:34Whoops, there goes the dog.
00:44:36There goes the dog. The dog says it's time to go.
00:44:39Are there any similarities yet between him and Flightline?
00:44:43Too early to say that.
00:44:47They're different horses, but they're both nice horses.
00:44:51Looks like you're taking your time with him.
00:44:53When could we hopefully see him reappear?
00:44:56Is he going to be on the same Flightline schedule?
00:44:59He's going to hopefully be ready for the Nile.
00:45:03Perfect. I'm going to go see him. Thanks, John.
00:45:12Thanks so much to trainer John Sadler.
00:45:14We'll continue to progress the half-brother to Flightline.
00:45:17That is Eagle's Flight.
00:45:19We want to remind you that we will carry on at Santa Anita on Friday
00:45:23with a double carryover going into the PIC6.
00:45:26So get your handicapping going.
00:45:28We'll, of course, have racing Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
00:45:31On Saturday, the Pumpkin Patch Fall Festival continues.
00:45:36We'll also have Smorgasbord Pizza Party. That's for you, Randy.
00:45:40And then everybody's favorite on Sunday, Pinktober,
00:45:43as we invite Pink's Hot Dogs in to basically raise money
00:45:47for the American Cancer Society.
00:45:50So do join us at Santa Anita all weekend long.
00:45:54The most talked-about race so far at the Keeneland meet,
00:45:57I don't think, has been the Breeders Futurity or the Spinster
00:46:00or something like that. It was a 20-maiden-claimer.
00:46:04And the reason why is a jockey, Luan, is it Mikado or Machado?
00:46:09Do you guys have an opinion on that?
00:46:11I'm going to call him Mikado, Luan Mikado, who rides next, by the way.
00:46:15So we're going to get into that as well.
00:46:17He misjudged the finish line at Keeneland.
00:46:20He stood up the first finish line not realizing that the race
00:46:23actually ended at the second and main finish line.
00:46:26Zoe, so he got us this three-day suspension, $2,500 fine.
00:46:30I'm fine with that. I mean, he obviously made a mistake.
00:46:34You're not going to go nail the guy for giving him
00:46:36a six-month suspension or something like that.
00:46:38But Zoe, have you ever encountered a situation like that,
00:46:42ridden in a track with two finish lines?
00:46:44Oh, yeah. Yes, I have. And it happens. I mean, it really does.
00:46:50And I know I feel bad for the people that gambled on the race.
00:46:54I know Twitter blew up over it, people having picked fives to him
00:46:58and all kinds of stuff. But at the end of the day,
00:47:00when you're gambling on horse racing, you're worried about two things,
00:47:06the horse and human error both comes into it.
00:47:09Now, say he'd have run into a roadblock at the half-mile pole and got beat.
00:47:13He's going to get beat anyway. So he got beat by misjudging the finish line.
00:47:16If you're gambling on horse racing, you have to factor in that there's
00:47:20human error in there as well, whichever way it turns out to be.
00:47:24So I'm tired of hearing about it. I feel bad for the guy.
00:47:28But boy, oh, boy, did he get some redemption this weekend
00:47:31with a couple of his rides that he put on that we'll talk about.
00:47:34So, yes, it sucks. It does happen. I don't know there's a way around it.
00:47:40The only way around it is to get rid of the two finish lines.
00:47:43But how are you going to do that with track configurations?
00:47:46I wonder about that, though. Keeneland can run.
00:47:49So they run the mile in a 16th race, finishing up at the first finish line.
00:47:54I don't see the great necessity of that, to be honest with you.
00:47:59Randy?
00:48:00Well, they run a mile. The reason that they run.
00:48:03So Keeneland is a mile and a 16th in circumference.
00:48:06And the reason they start and finish at the 16th pole is to give jockeys
00:48:12a safer run into the first turn.
00:48:14Otherwise, because the finish line is really far down the homestretch.
00:48:18So there would be literally no distance to speak of
00:48:23between the starting gate and the first turn,
00:48:25unless you pull the starting gate way, way, way back,
00:48:28like they do at some tracks and have these 200 foot run up.
00:48:31And if you're going to do that, you might as well have two finish lines.
00:48:34Well, what confused Machado so much is that at a mile and a 16th,
00:48:40you have the alternate finish line at the 16th pole, two turn race.
00:48:44But this was a mile and an eighth, also a two turn race,
00:48:48except the mile and an eighth races go to the regular finish line.
00:48:51And his horse had like a five or six length lead in mid stretch.
00:48:54He crosses the 16th pole. He thinks he had the race run.
00:48:57Social media absolutely destroyed this young man.
00:49:01Ridiculous. Some of the things that were said on social media,
00:49:04it was just an accident. If you bet on football and the officials blow a call,
00:49:09how many times have we seen that happen?
00:49:10That's not even human error involving the players.
00:49:13That greatly impacts a lot of the football games, college and pro.
00:49:17You just have to kind of take your lumps when that happens.
00:49:20There are some people who were even talking like conspiracy,
00:49:25like the young guy, like the guy threw the race on purpose.
00:49:29Now, yeah, I don't want to go down this rabbit hole,
00:49:32but if Luan Machado wanted not to win with that particular horse,
00:49:38do you think he would have opened up six links in mid stretch?
00:49:41I mean, give me a break here. The kid just made a mistake.
00:49:45His three day suspension is I think the 27th, the 30th and the 31st,
00:49:50because entries had already been taken for this past weekend's races.
00:49:55And to his credit, after that,
00:49:57he bounces back with two graded stakes wins at Keeneland on the weekend after
00:50:02that Wednesday debacle. Good for him.
00:50:06Now another Luan Machado's best mount is next,
00:50:10a horse that we've been talking a lot about and we've been going back and forth
00:50:14on this. I know Randy and Zoe are in one camp and I'm in the other,
00:50:17but Doug Cowan's trainer has now said this horse will run in the Breeders' Cup,
00:50:22the marathon specialist.
00:50:23He hasn't decided yet whether he should go in the turf at a mile and a half
00:50:27and be a better distance for the horse or on the dirt and the classic at a mile
00:50:31and a quarter, which would be a better surface,
00:50:34but not necessarily a better distance. I've been advocating this all along.
00:50:38I still believe it. I'm glad they're doing this.
00:50:40It's going to add a real nice element to the Breeders' Cup.
00:50:43And what do they have to lose?
00:50:45So I have, I have a question for you too.
00:50:48The owner and Cowans are leaning toward the classic by the way, over the turf,
00:50:52although they still haven't made a final decision.
00:50:55I want to give you three Breeders' Cup classic horses,
00:50:58and I want you to rank them in your order of preference in terms of their
00:51:04chances to win and whether they deserve to be in the classic field or not.
00:51:07Okay. Dermasotogake, Pyrenees, and next.
00:51:15Okay. Now what's the question then? I'm sorry, Randy.
00:51:18Rank those three in order that you think they deserve to be in the classic.
00:51:24Derma one, next two, and the other guy three.
00:51:29Pyrenees three. Would you say the same thing, Zoe?
00:51:32I mean, I don't think next should run in the Breeders' Cup period.
00:51:37That's just my thought. But if you're looking for horses in the rankings,
00:51:43I would put next number one. Okay.
00:51:47Dermasotogake has got a duck egg this year. I mean, like, is he going to get in?
00:51:53He might not. See, the reason I'm asking this question.
00:51:57Yeah. This is what the, in all likelihood,
00:52:01what the Breeders' Cup selection committee is going to be faced with.
00:52:05One of those three horses is going to wind up on the also eligibles.
00:52:09Kenny McPeak is going to enter rattle and roll.
00:52:12It already has pre-entered him, apparently. And he's a non-issue.
00:52:16He's not going to make it into the field.
00:52:18He would be ranked 16th of the 16 horses expected to be pre-entered.
00:52:23So one other one is going to be ranked number 15 and be on the outside looking in.
00:52:28Tappet Trice is probably going to be selected since he just won the Woodward, right?
00:52:32So those three, I think, are the ones that the committee is going to have to decide between.
00:52:37One of them is going to be the odd horse out, so to speak.
00:52:41I think it's probably going to be Pyrenees,
00:52:44but it could be Dermis Otagake or it could even be Next.
00:52:49I mean, you've got to go by the form, really. It can't come from the heart.
00:52:54If you're looking at the form, Next is 4 for 4. He's got a grade 2 and a grade 3 this year.
00:52:59Dermis Otagake has a big 0 this year. Pyrenees has a grade 3.
00:53:05Tappet Trice, obviously, a grade 2 and a grade 3.
00:53:08And Rattlin' Roll, he's not getting in.
00:53:10So the one horse getting in, if you're just going by the numbers and not going by someone thinking,
00:53:17Next is getting in.
00:53:20Randy, I'm not entirely sure how this works.
00:53:23They don't have a point system, so the 16th horse with the fewest points isn't going to get into the race?
00:53:32Here's the way it works.
00:53:34For the Breeders' Cup Classic, the maximum number of horses that can run is 14.
00:53:40They take half of that number.
00:53:42So seven horses in the Breeders' Cup Classic will be chosen by the committee.
00:53:47And the other seven will be either a combination of win-in-your-end Breeders' Cup Classic victories or points.
00:53:54In this situation, I think we have four win-in-your-end Breeders' Cup Classic horses
00:54:00that are going to make it into the Classic field, including Mitztow, who won the Pacific Classic,
00:54:04who might be near the bottom of the rankings otherwise.
00:54:07And then point-wise, you'll have Fierceness and you'll have Sierra Leone, right?
00:54:15And I think there's one other one on the list there that's for sure going to –
00:54:18oh, Highland Falls is going to get in on points if he didn't get in Breeders' Cup.
00:54:22Anyway, that's how you do it. Seven and seven.
00:54:25Isn't it cool, though, to have an oversubscribed field for one?
00:54:29Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
00:54:30Oh, yeah. For the Classic, yeah.
00:54:33I mean, you don't see that all that often for the Breeders' Cup Classic. That's cool.
00:54:39The TD and Writer's Room, also brought to you by Kentucky Breads, who have been on a world tour in 2024.
00:54:46City of Troy was the European two-year-old male champion last year.
00:54:52Opera Singer was the European two-year-old Philly champion of last year.
00:54:58And both now have won Group 1 races again this season at age three.
00:55:03City of Troy has won three Group 1s to make him one of the favorites in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:55:07Opera Singer won the Grade 1 Nassau stakes at Goodwood.
00:55:11In all, Kentucky Bread two-year-olds have won three of eight Group races for juveniles at Royal Ascot the last two years.
00:55:19Shareholder won the Norfolk this year. Valiant Force won the Norfolk last year.
00:55:24Those are both Group 2s. And Crimson Advocate won the Group 1 Queen Mary.
00:55:28In addition, you've got Rama 2L, who will be expected to run in the Breeders' Cup Mile after winning a Group 1 in the 4A in France.
00:55:37A lot of success by Kentucky Breads across the pond.
00:55:41And it might continue here at the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.
00:55:44Kentucky Breads breed them, race them, race them. We all win.
00:55:48With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round.
00:55:54There's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:56:00Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high.
00:56:03As is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida, and New York.
00:56:09Kentucky Breads breed them, raise them, race them. We all win.
00:56:17Be a smarter better with XBTV.
00:56:20The best horses.
00:56:24With thousands of exclusive morning workouts.
00:56:31All at your fingertips and delivered right into your inbox.
00:56:36Everything you need to be informed.
00:56:39Be smart. Bet smart. With XBTV.
00:56:47TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:56:50And this week's XBTV Work of the Week is Tenma,
00:56:54a candidate for the $2 million Breeders' Cup Juvenile fillies.
00:56:57Now, Tenma worked five furlongs out of the gate.
00:57:01Her company with her is a filly named Cassaloo,
00:57:04who's going to run in the Anokia Stakes on Friday.
00:57:07She will actually work six furlongs here.
00:57:09But Tenma works a very nice 5.8 in 1.01, which is to the eighth pole.
00:57:15Tenma won the grade one Delmar debutant going seven furlongs
00:57:19and then was third in the grade two Oakleaf,
00:57:22making her two-turn debut on October the 5th at Santa Anita.
00:57:26Tenma was an $850,000 two-year-old purchase by Susan and Charlie Chu.
00:57:32And she is trained by Hall of Famer Bob Baffert.
00:57:36Well, if you're playing a drinking game with how many times you say Dano,
00:57:39you're going to get it wrong.
00:57:42And, you know, I do this because, I mean,
00:57:44he's not the greatest horse in the world, I understand that.
00:57:46But it's so cool to me as a New Jersey person to see a New Jersey bred do so well.
00:57:51I loved him in the Perryville.
00:57:52He got kind of a bad trip.
00:57:53He got kind of bunched down on the inside a little bit.
00:57:57But at the end of the day, I don't think he had much of an excuse.
00:58:00He got a running lane.
00:58:01And then the 14 horse draws in off the also eligible list
00:58:05and pays a zillion dollars to beat him.
00:58:07So I am proud of my friend Bookham Dano.
00:58:09I'm trying to find out what they're going to do with him next.
00:58:12I have not heard back from the connections.
00:58:14And but they are still looking to get him to Saudi Arabia.
00:58:18And before that, they're talking about running in the Saudi Gold Cup,
00:58:21Saudi Cup, 20 million bucks for a horse that's never gone beyond seven furlongs.
00:58:26Well, they think he can do it.
00:58:28It's a one turn.
00:58:29It's one.
00:58:30That's what he said.
00:58:31Yeah.
00:58:32Said if it was two turns, he would never do it.
00:58:33Yeah.
00:58:34So who was the winner of the Perryville?
00:58:35Brunacci?
00:58:3628 to one?
00:58:37Luan.
00:58:38Brunacini.
00:58:39Brunacini.
00:58:40Brunacini.
00:58:41I mean, that was a good ride by Machado.
00:58:44A really good ride.
00:58:46How about that?
00:58:4728 to one.
00:58:48And then the next day in the Raven Run, it was won by Emery.
00:58:52And what's interesting there is that she was second behind Ways and Means
00:58:55in the test in her last start.
00:58:57So the fact now Ways and Means looks all that much better
00:59:00since the filly that she beat pretty handily came back
00:59:02and won a big stake at Keeneland over the weekend.
00:59:05As if Ways and Means needs to look that much better, right?
00:59:09And she already looks.
00:59:10Let's get back to Bookumdano for a second.
00:59:12Was your favorite TV show growing up, Hawaii Five-0, by any chance?
00:59:17I really liked the show.
00:59:18I don't know if it was my favorite show, but, yeah, it was a great show.
00:59:21Okay.
00:59:22All right.
00:59:23Now, look, I thought Bookumdano had plenty of enough of an excuse in there.
00:59:27First of all, he was tightened up at the top of the lane and had to,
00:59:32you know, IRAD had to wait for just a second.
00:59:34They only got beat a neck.
00:59:36But I think the big thing is it was a stakes race,
00:59:40but for all intents and purposes, it was a handicap race
00:59:43because Bookumdano carried 123 pounds, having won a grade one stakes this year
00:59:48and spotted five pounds to Brunacini and to Knightsbridge,
00:59:53who dead heated for third with Epic Ride.
00:59:55So a neck, five pounds, it's, you know, plenty of reason to think
01:00:00that Bookumdano was the best horse in the race.
01:00:02But with his running style, Bill,
01:00:04you're just going to have to get accustomed to taking some tough beats
01:00:06every now and then.
01:00:07That's the problem with him.
01:00:09200,000.
01:00:10That's all you're going to need, Bill.
01:00:11200,000.
01:00:12Get that 25% share in Bookumdano.
01:00:15When we get off the air, I'll give you my Zelle account number.
01:00:18All right.
01:00:22So, again, not a whole lot going on this weekend.
01:00:25Some decent races at Keeneland.
01:00:27Belmont at the Big A has a pretty good lineup of races as well.
01:00:31This is kind of the prep for the cigar mile day, for the most part.
01:00:37And the Mother Goose is still around, grade two, 250,000.
01:00:41Gunsong is going to be the favorite.
01:00:43And, again, you can answer,
01:00:45this horse will help you answer some Breeders' Cup questions.
01:00:48She lost by a mere neck to Torpedo Anna in the Cotillion.
01:00:52If she runs out of her, runs her eyeballs out,
01:00:54that's going to make Torpedo Anna look much better.
01:00:56If she doesn't do much here,
01:00:58I think you might want to look back at Torpedo's Anna Cotillion
01:01:00and say it was not one of her best starts.
01:01:03But, so, Gunsong for Trainer Mark Hennig and John Velasquez,
01:01:07probably the ones to beat in there, but we shall see.
01:01:10Gunsong and Tarifa.
01:01:12Yeah.
01:01:14She's good.
01:01:15Watch out for Chad's horse.
01:01:16I stupidly forgot to ask Chad about headline numbers,
01:01:19but he's got two in there.
01:01:21What about all the progeny in Gunrunner in this race?
01:01:23There's three and also the half-sister to Gunrunner,
01:01:27and that's Pretty Anna, who Chad Brown trains.
01:01:30It's basically the Gunrunner handicap.
01:01:32Wow.
01:01:33Yeah.
01:01:34Yeah, and three cheers to Mark Hennig for picking the right spot
01:01:39for this filly, right?
01:01:41Because they were toying with the idea of running her against Idiomatic
01:01:45and against Torpedo Anna in the distaff.
01:01:47She was on the short list of horses for a while for the distaff
01:01:50while they were trying to decide back and forth.
01:01:53Ultimately, they opted into a spot where she's got a solid,
01:01:57really good chance to win.
01:01:58She'll be the favorite, which she would have been 20-1 in the distaff.
01:02:02Right.
01:02:03Well, we can't let you go without getting a little bit more
01:02:05of some insights into the Breeders' Cup.
01:02:07Of course, with the pre-entries aren't out yet,
01:02:09we can't really dive into things.
01:02:11Randy, you said how many are going to enter the Classic?
01:02:14Right now, it looks like 16 are going to go in,
01:02:20the pre-entry stage of it.
01:02:22And that's pretty solid.
01:02:23I mean, they're all saying that they're going to pre-enter.
01:02:26Right.
01:02:27Yeah.
01:02:28So just a little…
01:02:30Go ahead, Randy.
01:02:31Let me just follow up on what we said a little bit earlier
01:02:34just to clarify for everybody how the selection works
01:02:38for the Breeders' Cup.
01:02:39The four horses that won Breeders' Cup Challenge races are Arthur's Ride,
01:02:44City of Troy, who won one in the UK, Highland Falls,
01:02:48and Mick Stowe in the Pacific Classic.
01:02:50That's four.
01:02:51So you have three more that are going to get in on points.
01:02:54Sierra Leone had 34 points, Fierceness 27 points,
01:03:00and Skippy Longstocking is seventh on that list with 24 points.
01:03:06So Skippy would automatically get in the Classic
01:03:09if they choose to run him in the Classic as opposed to the Dirt Mile.
01:03:14Last year, Sappy Joseph opted to run in the Dirt Mile
01:03:18because he said it gave him a much better chance to win.
01:03:20We'll see what happens with Skippy Longstocking there.
01:03:23Then you've got Newgate, who probably is going to get in.
01:03:26He's a Grade 1 winner this year in the Santa Anita Handicap.
01:03:29Selection Committee will take him.
01:03:32Tappet Trice we talked about.
01:03:33He'll probably get in on his Woodward win.
01:03:36And then we have the horses that I was telling you about that are going to be…
01:03:41You've got Ushpatisoro who's going to get in.
01:03:43Forever Young is going to get in.
01:03:45He's going to be chosen.
01:03:46You know Senor Buscador will be chosen based on the Saudi Cup.
01:03:49So that leaves Dermosotogake, Pyrenees, and Next.
01:03:53They've got to take Next just because of the story
01:03:58and it makes it more compelling for your spot.
01:04:01Take him or else.
01:04:02I'm not happy to hear that.
01:04:04Then maybe if he does…
01:04:06Well, is the turf oversubscribed?
01:04:08Then he can just go run on the grass.
01:04:09The turf is probably not going to be oversubscribed.
01:04:12It's going to be right up to the 13-14 horse limit.
01:04:16But right now it's looking like it will not be oversubscribed.
01:04:19Right.
01:04:20So between the three of us, we've seen an awful lot of Breeders' Cups
01:04:22either live or on television.
01:04:25Let's just do a fun little exercise to keep the Breeders' Cup as an important topic today.
01:04:31What is your favorite Breeders' Cup race of all time, Randy?
01:04:36I've been to every Breeders' Cup except the inaugural in 1984
01:04:43and the 1995 Breeders' Cup when I was in management at Oaklawn Park.
01:04:49All the other 38 previous Breeders' Cups I've actually seen in person.
01:04:54And it is damn tough to pick a race.
01:04:58There's been so many good races and good stories, right?
01:05:02I always talk about Arazi as being the single best move I've ever seen.
01:05:09To this day, the most electrifying move I've ever seen in any race, any day, any track
01:05:16in the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
01:05:17But I think I would pick, and some people are going to call me a sourpuss for this,
01:05:23I would probably pick the 2011 Breeders' Cup Classic with Blame edging Zenyatta in a photo finish.
01:05:33Now, I know a lot of people are heartbroken that Zenyatta didn't win.
01:05:36The reason why I picked that race, that was the best race Zenyatta ever ran.
01:05:41The best race of her life in the only race she didn't win.
01:05:46She was running on dirt as opposed to synthetic, right?
01:05:50She had been running on synthetic in Southern California in a lot of super slow-paced races,
01:05:55and she was trailing the field in those.
01:05:57You knew she was going to be 20 lengths back in the first part of the race.
01:06:01And lo and behold, she was.
01:06:03I thought given all that on dirt, she had no chance to run down Blame.
01:06:08She was a heavy favorite.
01:06:09And yet here she comes, just storming down the lane and almost got there
01:06:14in what I thought was the best race she ever ran.
01:06:19Zoe?
01:06:20Well, I met Randy in Go the year before when she won.
01:06:24And obviously I'm not as old as you two, hate to say it, so I haven't seen quite as many.
01:06:32My first one I did actually witness was in 2000 when it was at Arlington Park.
01:06:36I took off the last race of the day because I had friends in town.
01:06:40And we had box, and it was amazing.
01:06:43I think Mike Smith won four races.
01:06:45But the one I really remember had to be Zenyatta.
01:06:49It was in the HRTV heyday at Santa Anita, so we'd covered it all week.
01:06:55And I don't know, I just can't remember why I found myself in the top
01:06:59of the grandstand, you know, above the turf club.
01:07:02I was right at the top of the grandstand, and I will never forget her coming,
01:07:07motoring down the stretch, and we all thought it was hopeless.
01:07:10And I can still to this day feel the roar of the crowd.
01:07:14And it was almost like they were taking the roof off at Santa Anita when she won.
01:07:20It was probably the most amazing race I've ever seen in my life.
01:07:23You had to be there, and you had to be in the grandstand.
01:07:26It was amazing.
01:07:28Well, being the New York homer that I am, and it's been a few government times,
01:07:33I've got to go with one of the greatest moments in the stable of Shug McGahee
01:07:38and the Phipps family, 1988 Breeders' Cup to staff,
01:07:42Personal Ensign, her undefeated career on the line,
01:07:45coming in against Winning Colors for Wayne Lucas.
01:07:48The 16th pole, she had no chance to win, none.
01:07:52And the great winning streak is going to go down the drain,
01:07:55and it's going to be a sad occasion.
01:07:57Sure, it's fine that Winning Colors won.
01:07:59She's a nice horse, but Personal Ensign is extra, extra special.
01:08:02Somehow she just found a gear, and sheer class determination got up in time
01:08:07and I don't think I'll ever see a Breeders' Cup race that was more exciting than that.
01:08:11I know Randy doesn't necessarily agree.
01:08:14Oh, I mean, she's a fantastic Hall of Fame horse.
01:08:18There's so many races to pick from.
01:08:20The Breeders' Cup turf of four or five years ago, was it Enable and Magical?
01:08:25Was that the horse that Enable was hooked up with, which was a fantastic race?
01:08:30I think so.
01:08:31Okay, you've got—
01:08:32You have to hold the thumb bird you mentioned earlier.
01:08:34Yeah, that was unbelievable.
01:08:36Arrow Gates winning the Classic against California Chrome.
01:08:39Those two horses were just absolutely laying it down and running.
01:08:43And you could pick a lot of others, too, that were just fantastic races.
01:08:47So we've been really fortunate to see a lot of fantastic efforts at the Breeders' Cup.
01:08:53All right, so I'll go first on this question.
01:08:55What are you most looking forward to this year's Breeders' Cup?
01:08:58Going first, because I think I'm going to steal the same answer that both you guys came up with.
01:09:02But the City of Troy in the Classic.
01:09:05You know, it's such a good horse.
01:09:09It's such a mystery.
01:09:10You know, he could win by seven, eight lengths, or he could finish next to last.
01:09:14You don't really know, but I trust Aiden O'Brien.
01:09:16I mean, he would not be putting this horse in the race if he was not very certain that he would handle the dirt.
01:09:23So if he handles the dirt as good as he is, I think he probably will win.
01:09:26But, you know, it's not going to be easy.
01:09:29But I can't wait to see this horse and see what he can do.
01:09:33Zoe?
01:09:34Yeah, I'm right with you.
01:09:35That and the Juvenile as well, because we always look forward to the Juvenile.
01:09:39Because as soon as that's run, we'll be talking about the Derby next year.
01:09:43So those two, I actually can't wait to physically see City of Troy in person.
01:09:49Because I know when he first started off this year, people were just saying how small he was.
01:09:53That was the whole big thing.
01:09:54Well, he's not very big.
01:09:55He's a little horse.
01:09:56And then you had Aiden O'Brien invite the cameras in.
01:09:59And he took the tack off and was, like, measuring him with his nose and saying he's 16.1.
01:10:03You know, he's this and that.
01:10:05So I want to see him in person up close and personal.
01:10:09Look, Aiden O'Brien has run 17 horses in the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:10:13All but about five of them were bred strictly for turf and had zero chance to win.
01:10:20And yet he ran them anyway.
01:10:22Because Coolmore are, you know, the ultimate sportsmen.
01:10:27And they desperately want to win the Breeders' Cup Classic.
01:10:30And they keep trying.
01:10:31And they keep trying.
01:10:32And they keep trying.
01:10:33And this is going to be fascinating on so many different fronts.
01:10:37Because you've got here they're so excited about it.
01:10:41Because, number one, they're trying to find a stallion to replace Galileo.
01:10:45And here you have City of Troy, who's by justify an American Triple Crown winner out of a Galileo mare,
01:10:51who is a very, very good race horse herself.
01:10:54This horse could be just the next major stallion.
01:10:58Coolmore salivating at the thought that he could win the Breeders' Cup Classic
01:11:02to go along with what he's already done winning the Epsom Derby, right?
01:11:05But is he going to take after Justify?
01:11:09Or is he going to take after the damn side, Galileo?
01:11:13Galileo's are atrocious on the dirt.
01:11:17Horrible on the dirt.
01:11:19And physically, I think we've talked about this,
01:11:21he looks more like Galileo than he looks like Justify.
01:11:25I don't know how much that matters, right?
01:11:29And there's also this.
01:11:32Even if City of Troy handles the dirt, even if he takes to the dirt,
01:11:37even if he handles the kickback,
01:11:39that doesn't necessarily mean he can outrun Fierceness and Sierra Leone and Forever Young.
01:11:47Those are three really, really good three-year-olds.
01:11:50So that just adds further.
01:11:52If he wins by eight lengths, like you pointed out,
01:11:55I mean, I'll bow to City of Troy as flight line material,
01:12:00because I think this is a good race.
01:12:02Who's your pick today, Randy?
01:12:06Before the post-position draw, which I think will be important, it would be Fierceness.
01:12:11Okay.
01:12:13If he's stuck down on the inside, right?
01:12:17I would have to give it a serious reconsideration.
01:12:21Maybe Forever Young in that scenario.
01:12:24And you like City of Troy right now?
01:12:28I guess.
01:12:31I'm kind of on the fence.
01:12:32I want to see him.
01:12:33I'm not making any—I have to see him.
01:12:35I'd like to touch him.
01:12:37Do you think he'll let me touch him?
01:12:39What do you like, Bill?
01:12:42It's too early.
01:12:43I'll know when I open up the past performances.
01:12:45But, you know, like I said, as a fan, though, I would like to see City of Troy win.
01:12:50But I'm not sure who I'm going to pick in there yet.
01:12:52It's going to be a hell of a good horse race, though, that's for sure.
01:12:55This week's Breeders' Cup Connections is a special one and a tearjerker.
01:13:00Make sure you watch this, Randy and Bill.
01:13:02Katie Petruniak talks to Jeremy Fennell about his path to addiction and back
01:13:08with the help of stable recovery and trainer Will Walden.
01:13:12Fennell is the rider of Minaret Station, who is heading to the Breeders' Cup Juvenile
01:13:15Turf at Del Mar November the 1st.
01:13:18You surely won't want to miss this one.
01:13:24Coming from South Dakota to Kentucky, it's a big step of class of horses and people,
01:13:30you know, and that's what I love about where I'm at.
01:13:34Minaret Station came to our barn.
01:13:36He was just, you know, he's always been a character, you know, when he first got there.
01:13:41And I started galloping him and stuff.
01:13:43And, man, I mean, he's progressed so much.
01:13:47So we have a really strong connection with each other.
01:13:50And galloping-wise, I mean, he's an unbelievable type of horse that I've ever been on.
01:14:02All the thrills.
01:14:06Fraction of the bills.
01:14:11Experience the power of the partnership.
01:14:17Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:14:24West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:14:28Visit westpointtb.com.
01:14:32The Canadian Riders Room, brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:14:35And West Point wraps up the Keeneland fall meet with Leray in the Valley View Stakes on Friday.
01:14:41That's a grade two.
01:14:42And then Depiction in the Bryan Station Stakes on closing day Saturday.
01:14:47That's another grade two.
01:14:48Leray's that French import that we talked about a while back when she won the Winter Memories at Aqueduct.
01:14:54That was her U.S. debut.
01:14:56It was her third win in a row overall.
01:14:58And now Leray will go for four in a row on Friday.
01:15:01Meanwhile, Vava is finishing up her preparations for the filly and mare sprint out of Del Mar for the Breeders' Cup for West Point.
01:15:07And the co-owners, Vava, will fly to Del Mar Sunday with the rest of the Breeders' Cup hopefuls trained by Cherie DeVoe.
01:15:16To learn more about West Point Thoroughbreds, you can log on to westpointtb, as in thoroughbred.com.
01:15:27That is a wrap on this week's show.
01:15:29I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabot, our guest of the week, Chad Brown, and our editors and producers, Katie Petrunia, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:15:38Hope you had some fun listening to us today.
01:15:40Catch up with you next week.