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00:00:18For the love of the horse.
00:00:21For generations to come.
00:00:25And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room podcast for May 30th, 2023.
00:00:31My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:32I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News and co-host of the
00:00:35Down the Stretch Show with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:38Hi, I'm Randy Moss of NBC Sports and also the Byers Speed Figure Team.
00:00:44Zoe Catman here with First Racing.
00:00:46Doodle in the background.
00:00:47He's finally here over my left shoulder.
00:00:50I want to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:00:54I was going to say that, Zoe.
00:00:56You didn't need to take it away.
00:00:57I was so psyched to get that right.
00:00:59But this week I was all set to get it done.
00:01:02Okay.
00:01:03So obviously on the show we have to talk about the ongoing situation,
00:01:07Churchill Downs.
00:01:08Let's just put that on hold for now because I didn't want to start off,
00:01:12you know,
00:01:13with doom and gloom because there's just been so much of that lately.
00:01:16It gets a little depressing.
00:01:17I want to start off with a very interesting concept that was announced last week.
00:01:22The National Thoroughbred League is going to start up on Labor Day weekend at
00:01:26Kentucky Downs.
00:01:27In a nutshell,
00:01:28it's trying to take horse racing and turn it into a team sport.
00:01:32There's going to be horses representing six different cities.
00:01:35They're going to be a team.
00:01:36They're going to compete against one another at different races,
00:01:39five series of races around the U.S.
00:01:42Emerald Downs are going to go to.
00:01:44They're going to go to Tampa Bay Downs for the end.
00:01:47The winning stable will collect $1 million.
00:01:50And the people behind it are saying that,
00:01:53you know,
00:01:54why can't horse racing have what other sports have?
00:01:57In baseball,
00:01:58you don't root for an individual player.
00:02:01You root for your team.
00:02:03I root for the Boston Red Sox,
00:02:05which is sometimes a tough thing to do.
00:02:08But this concept coming to Thoroughbred Racing,
00:02:11it's an interesting idea.
00:02:12I'm going to be upfront about it.
00:02:13I don't think it'll work.
00:02:15But having said that,
00:02:17good for these people for trying something new and different.
00:02:21And maybe I'll be wrong.
00:02:22Maybe it'll be a big success.
00:02:24It is really outside the box.
00:02:26And we always complain that racing doesn't do enough beyond the status
00:02:31quo or doesn't do enough to try to attract new fans.
00:02:34Then if we say that we shouldn't complain about this,
00:02:36who knows?
00:02:37Maybe it'll be very successful.
00:02:38That's exactly the way I feel, Bill.
00:02:41You know,
00:02:42we don't get enough new ideas like this in Thoroughbred Racing.
00:02:45And so I would love to see it succeed.
00:02:48I also have reservations,
00:02:52primarily from a financial standpoint of how it can make money.
00:02:57But then I remind myself,
00:03:00I was in the newspaper business back in 1983.
00:03:03When the Breeders' Cup concept was first announced,
00:03:06and I wrote a lot of stories about it,
00:03:08and there were a lot of people in the sport that did not believe that the
00:03:13Breeders' Cup was a good idea,
00:03:15did not see any way that it could make money and it could be successful.
00:03:20And lo and behold, now here we are in 2023.
00:03:23And it's one of the highlights of the calendar.
00:03:26From a financial standpoint,
00:03:29each of the six teams is going to have a six-horse stable at the outset.
00:03:34So that's 36 horses that have to be purchased.
00:03:38And the quotes in the Daily Racing Forum article that I read from Matt
00:03:43Hegarty was that the goal is to buy horses privately that are upper
00:03:48allowance or lower stakes caliber.
00:03:51Ballpark is going to have a six-horse stable.
00:03:56Ballpark, I would put that at about $200,000 a horse, times 36.
00:04:06That's $7.2 million of an outlay,
00:04:11plus the $1 million grand prize at the end.
00:04:14That's $8.2 million.
00:04:16These horses have to be trained.
00:04:19The auction is going to take place in July.
00:04:22So you're talking basically six months.
00:04:25Conservatively, that's another half million.
00:04:28So now we're up to $8.7 million.
00:04:31And in order to make money on this,
00:04:33they're saying that they're going to make money on sponsorships and on ticket
00:04:38sales to events that are associated with the five racing days.
00:04:45Events, if you're going to sell tickets to events and you're going to make any
00:04:49money off of it, the events cost a lot of money to stage and put on as well,
00:04:55plus advertising for those events, travel for the racehorses.
00:04:59Now you're up over $9 million in outlay that you're going to have to try to
00:05:04make.
00:05:05So among all the challenges, logistical challenges,
00:05:08keeping the horses healthy, et cetera, et cetera,
00:05:11the financial part of it is going to be, I think,
00:05:13the biggest nut to crack.
00:05:15I'm rooting for them.
00:05:17While I can't form,
00:05:18I hope they can make it work because racing needs new ideas,
00:05:21but it's going to be a tough go.
00:05:23It's definitely going to be a very tough go.
00:05:25In fact, I was speaking to Tom Lute,
00:05:27who's going to be the president of the NTL,
00:05:29the National Thoroughbred League,
00:05:31just the other day about this when the press release came out.
00:05:33I'm like, hey, Tom, what gives with this?
00:05:35Why are we just hearing about it?
00:05:37And he said, it's been in the works for a while,
00:05:39and they're just trying to bring new people in.
00:05:42He said, we're not here to try and please people already in the business.
00:05:46We're trying to bring in new people.
00:05:48I did a little bit of research on it earlier today,
00:05:52and I found it in Rolling Stone magazine.
00:05:55Rick Ross and Nelly, the New York Giants,
00:05:58Kayvon Thobedo trying to get into horse racing.
00:06:01They're all going to own a stake in one of the teams.
00:06:04So they're trying to bring people into the sport of horse racing,
00:06:08and there's no way we can sit here and not trying to bring new people in.
00:06:13Now, I don't know how the money's going to work.
00:06:15You have the guy in charge of Forbes who's going to be in charge of all the money.
00:06:20They have a big team behind it.
00:06:22Chantal Sutherland, Mike Smith are going to be on as advisors.
00:06:25They've got a whole team set in place.
00:06:27How it's going to work, I don't know.
00:06:29I do know that the Thoroughbred League in England started a few years ago,
00:06:33and that was met very dubiously, especially over in England.
00:06:38And I think it's in its third year now.
00:06:40They got Frankie DeTorre on board in his final tour.
00:06:43They have six teams.
00:06:45I think it's Wales, London, the Midlands, all kinds of teams going together,
00:06:51and it's actually gained some traction, and it's taken a little bit of time.
00:06:55You have all kinds of trainers that have signed up for it, even Sir Michael Stout,
00:06:59Donnacher O'Brien, Aidan O'Brien.
00:07:01They're all on the roster of trainers.
00:07:04So these are people that are making things happen,
00:07:07and the fact that it's survived its infancy in England
00:07:11gives me a little bit of hope on how this is going to move forward
00:07:14because things move a lot slower in England.
00:07:17People are a lot more stuffy and resistant to change over there.
00:07:22The fact that they've got some kind of traction going
00:07:25and they've got the likes of Michael Stout and Frankie DeTorre on board
00:07:29is a thumbs up.
00:07:30So anything that's going to try and bring new people to the sport, I'm all for.
00:07:34And I wish them the best of luck.
00:07:36I really do.
00:07:37I'm really looking forward to it.
00:07:38They're going to have a big concert in Nashville,
00:07:40the first foray into the races will be at Kentucky Downs,
00:07:44which I don't think you could find a better spot.
00:07:46It's a fabulous boutique meet.
00:07:49There's plenty of room for everyone.
00:07:51So I think they're going to have a great time.
00:07:53It'll be fun to try and grab a ticket and go along and see what's going on.
00:07:57I don't know who they're going to have play, but it's going to be somebody big,
00:08:00for sure.
00:08:01Yeah, we'll find out about that.
00:08:02But a couple of things to keep in mind,
00:08:04the ticket prices are up for Kentucky Downs
00:08:07and the VIP admission is $350.
00:08:10That's kind of a tough sell as well.
00:08:13And Randy, what you said about the economics of it,
00:08:18I'm going to go one step further.
00:08:19I think they're going to find out very quickly that six horses per team is not enough.
00:08:24Right.
00:08:25We know how these horses, how fragile they are.
00:08:28Somebody has a cough one day,
00:08:31you need to replace them in the lineup, so to speak.
00:08:36So we'll find out about that.
00:08:38The other thing, too, is I think it's not just horse racing.
00:08:42Everybody's trying to be Formula One auto racing now.
00:08:45And I don't know the first thing about Formula One.
00:08:47I don't care, but I know it's the hottest thing in the world.
00:08:50And what they did was they turned it into events.
00:08:54It's not just a race.
00:08:56It's a big event.
00:08:57They have this Netflix series that has been apparently wildly popular.
00:09:00I watched one episode.
00:09:01I was bored and I never watched another one again.
00:09:04But they're going to have someone behind the scenes filming this.
00:09:08Chad Brown has signed up to be the trainer of Team New York.
00:09:12So they'll be following Chad behind the scenes and whatnot.
00:09:16So some interesting concepts there.
00:09:18But Randy, I think you hit the nail on the head.
00:09:21But having said that, they look like they got a lot of backing.
00:09:25These are not people scraping together nickels to put this together.
00:09:29Yeah.
00:09:30I mean, I looked at the timing of it.
00:09:31It's going to start on Labor Day weekend.
00:09:33It's going to end on December 31st.
00:09:35If you run these races every four weeks,
00:09:39then you could have five weeks into December 31st.
00:09:43So the spacing of the races seems to work okay.
00:09:46They're going to run three races at a time on those five different weeks.
00:09:50And so I just kind of thought, okay,
00:09:52it'll probably be like a mile and a sixteenth on dirt,
00:09:56six furlongs on dirt, and a mile on the grass.
00:10:00So each team with six horses will probably have to have two in each category.
00:10:06And like you said, I mean, I just don't think that's enough,
00:10:11given the attrition rate of today's racehorses.
00:10:14That's just going to be one of the challenges.
00:10:17But, hey, you know, they got a lot of things, it sounds like,
00:10:20that they've got a head start on and a lot of big names in the pipeline.
00:10:25So let's hope it works.
00:10:27Yeah, and I actually tackled Tom about that
00:10:30and the buying of the horses and said, you know,
00:10:32he's going to go out and start buying horses.
00:10:34And I'm like, well, and now the press release came out,
00:10:37a lot more people have gone to Tom and said, well, what about this?
00:10:41And what about that?
00:10:42The subject came up of why not lease some horses off a trainer
00:10:46at the particular racetrack you're going to?
00:10:49But they want to keep the same horses so they can have a following,
00:10:52so to speak, and take these horses around to the different tracks
00:10:56and make stars out of them, which is fair enough,
00:10:59but it's going to be a tough task.
00:11:01Yeah, and also they've said these horses are not going to race
00:11:04outside of the league.
00:11:06So if some horse gets on fire and wins three in a row
00:11:09and is running 102 buyer figures, we're not going to see them,
00:11:12so they say, in anything but the league races.
00:11:15So that's another interesting factor as well.
00:11:19What's going on at Keeneland, Zoe?
00:11:21The TDN Racer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland,
00:11:24home of the World's Yearling Sale.
00:11:26The energy, magic, and momentum of a September yearling sale
00:11:30returns September the 11th through the 23rd.
00:11:33Learn more at theworldsyearlingsale.com.
00:11:40If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:11:47It would say, this is a racing,
00:11:50this beating heart in the heart of horse country,
00:11:55steady and strong beneath the roar,
00:11:58reminding us why, for the love of the horse,
00:12:03for generations to come.
00:12:07Vote for a horse with strong family values
00:12:10and the performance to back it up.
00:12:12It's going to be early voting in the opener.
00:12:15And early voting wins the withers, wire to wire.
00:12:19He took his campaign to Pimlico with a classic win
00:12:22in the grade one Preakness Stance.
00:12:24Epicenter trying to gain length.
00:12:26It's early voting to take it from Epicenter,
00:12:28a length of the half.
00:12:29Early voting, Gunrunner's only classic winner.
00:12:33New to Coolmore America.
00:12:37The TDN Racer's Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:12:40It was a big holiday weekend for Coolmore side runners.
00:12:44Over in France, American Pharoah's group one winner
00:12:47above the curve returned to her winning ways on Sunday
00:12:50with a two length victory in the group two Pre-Carida
00:12:53at St. Clu.
00:12:55Classic Empire's consistent daughter, Classy Edition,
00:12:58won her fourth career stakes race at Belmont
00:13:01in the critical eye stakes on Memorial Day.
00:13:04And Justifies, Justin's legacy proved to be another
00:13:08to keep an eye on Sunday when the colt romped
00:13:11in a five length maiden special weight victory at Goldstream.
00:13:15Meanwhile, CRK Stable's Smart Mo caught the eye
00:13:19at Santa Anita Friday with a debut winning maiden
00:13:22special weight performance for trainer John Sheriffs.
00:13:25All in all, not a bad weekend for Coolmore sires.
00:13:29You know what?
00:13:30That's a good time to find out what's going on
00:13:32at Santa Anita with Zoe Cabman.
00:13:34Here you go.
00:13:35First things first at Santa Anita.
00:13:37Wow.
00:13:41Here we are, Doodle.
00:13:43Three grade ones, a great day of racing
00:13:46and a win you're in.
00:13:48We deserve a drink.
00:13:50Cheers.
00:13:51And it's Macadamia and Tiago Pereira to win the game.
00:13:56She just developed into a nice classy filly.
00:13:59She didn't come here that way.
00:14:01She just came here just working, feel good,
00:14:05want to kick up her heels in the stall.
00:14:07But I think, you know, as she's gotten older
00:14:09and she's matured, she's put it all together
00:14:12and thankfully it was for a grade one win here.
00:14:15It's Exalted holding on.
00:14:17Exalted is a grade one winner.
00:14:20You love it when a plan comes together.
00:14:22The grade one win and you're in, she make a bow.
00:14:25Can't say that was the plan to get it.
00:14:27I did the first condition, yeah,
00:14:29and then the second condition, no.
00:14:31Let's see how it goes.
00:14:32I made a mistake.
00:14:33That was, I was given a prop.
00:14:35Whose idea was it to put him on the grass?
00:14:37Come on, be honest.
00:14:38Whose was it initially?
00:14:40Well, that was my idea, but I just felt like
00:14:42it was two years late.
00:14:44It's better late than never, they say, right?
00:14:47How are you feeling right now?
00:14:48I'm feeling awful good.
00:14:49I mean, to win a shoemaker mile, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty fun.
00:14:53Just thrilled with how well the jockey rowed our horse.
00:14:58And we are thrilled that you won.
00:15:00Congratulations.
00:15:02Parolee game as ever on the outside,
00:15:04but Defunded is too strong.
00:15:06And he takes them all the way in the Hollywood Gold Cup.
00:15:09Defunded takes the grade one Hollywood Gold Cup,
00:15:12launching this guy with the white hair, Bob Baffert,
00:15:15into history, becoming the all-time winningest trainer
00:15:18in Gold Cup history.
00:15:20How are you feeling with this win?
00:15:21You know, he's a tough horse.
00:15:23And this horse today, I just, he got the lead
00:15:25and he wasn't going to let anybody pass him.
00:15:27So, you know, he's just improving, getting better.
00:15:30And the mile and a quarter,
00:15:31I was happy to see him get a mile and a quarter.
00:15:34Just a reminder, racing does continue this Friday
00:15:37with a one o'clock post time at Santa Anita.
00:15:40And we will have stakes action this weekend
00:15:43with the Summertime Oaks on Saturday
00:15:45and the Affirm Stakes on Sunday.
00:15:48So on Monday at Santa Anita, three grade one races,
00:15:52the Hollywood Gold Cup, grade one purse, 400,000,
00:15:56the shoemaker mile, and also the gamely.
00:15:58The story of the day,
00:16:00well, there was a couple of stories of the day,
00:16:02but, you know, we focus in on the Hollywood Gold Cup.
00:16:05And, you know, I think most people would agree with me.
00:16:08I said that this is not a very inspiring division,
00:16:11the older dirt males.
00:16:12But right now, the funding is as good as we have out there.
00:16:15You know, he's been consistent.
00:16:16He won the Californian.
00:16:17He comes back and wins this race for Bob Baffert.
00:16:20Another interesting thing about this is that
00:16:22you think of Baffert, oh, he's just a three-year-old guy.
00:16:24He doesn't ever have good older horses.
00:16:26Well, how about the fact that he's one of the first
00:16:28Well, how about the fact that he's won this race now nine times?
00:16:32So Zoe, what resonated with you
00:16:35from that big Monday card at Santa Anita?
00:16:37Wow. A gate-to-wire explosion by Defunded
00:16:40was pretty awesome, to be honest.
00:16:42Juan Hernandez rode him on point to the mark.
00:16:47He's always a great workhorse, especially at Santa Anita.
00:16:50This is his home track.
00:16:51He went one better than he went last year when he was second.
00:16:55And it was really cool to see Mike Pegram
00:16:58in the winner's circle with Carl Watson
00:17:00because they were the guys that gave Bob
00:17:03his very first Gold Cup victory back in, was it 92?
00:17:07I can't remember.
00:17:08It was back with Real Quiet.
00:17:10So this, the ninth one, is the record breaker
00:17:13and the first one with Real Quiet.
00:17:15So Defunded was stellar.
00:17:18I'm not sure about Country Grammar.
00:17:20He kind of stubbed his toe a little bit.
00:17:22I'm not sure coming back quite so quickly
00:17:25from a grueling campaign was what he really wanted to do.
00:17:28He never really shows that sparkle,
00:17:30but he didn't grind on like he usually does.
00:17:33So a little disappointing from Country Grammar,
00:17:35but Defunded really was a force to be reckoned with.
00:17:38And that puts him right in the mix
00:17:40for the Breeders' Cup Classic,
00:17:41which will be right here at Santa Anita.
00:17:43Also, the big story that shoemaker Maya was exalted,
00:17:45and boy, has this horse turned his career around
00:17:47for Peter Urton, was just an okay dirt horse.
00:17:51He's now a terror on the turf.
00:17:53Four for four, his second graded stakes went in a row.
00:17:56A grade one winner now.
00:17:58They didn't make the switch with him
00:17:59until he was six years old.
00:18:01But it's like the reverse cigar here.
00:18:04Better late than never.
00:18:05And Zoe, that's a winning you're in
00:18:08for the Breeders' Cup Mile,
00:18:09a long way to go for the Breeders' Cup.
00:18:12And Randy, feel free to weigh in on this as well
00:18:13if you'd like.
00:18:14But right now at the Turf Mile Division in America,
00:18:18he's as good as anybody else I would imagine.
00:18:21He was terrific.
00:18:22And I don't know if it's just the turf course
00:18:24or he's a true, true out and out turf horse
00:18:27because it's a big heavy horse.
00:18:29He looks like a dirt horse.
00:18:30I can see why Peter was so reluctant
00:18:33to run him on the grass in the first place
00:18:35because he's a big old clunky old thing.
00:18:38But God, he loves this turf course.
00:18:40And they went fast.
00:18:41And he was right up there with them.
00:18:42It almost looked like Juan Hernandez
00:18:44winning his second grade one on the day
00:18:46was almost moving a little bit prematurely
00:18:49and going after the winners.
00:18:51But boy, he ran a good race.
00:18:54The favorite, the Pratt Road.
00:18:57What's his name, Randy?
00:18:58Why can't I think of it off the top of my head?
00:19:01Hong Kong Harry.
00:19:02Hong Kong Harry.
00:19:03He got stuck in traffic and was stymied a little bit.
00:19:05I'm not sure anyone was actually going to beat Exalted
00:19:08on the day.
00:19:09And I asked Peter afterwards, I'm like,
00:19:11who was the genius that suddenly decided
00:19:14at five years old to stick him on the turf course?
00:19:17And he was like, well, it was me.
00:19:19It was me.
00:19:22But eventually, but it's a cool story.
00:19:25It really is, Randy.
00:19:26Yeah.
00:19:27The pedigree doesn't exactly scream turf.
00:19:29He's about twirling candy out of a gilded time mare.
00:19:32But obviously, when they finally got him on it,
00:19:36he was a superstar and about defunded.
00:19:40By numbers, the horses in the East Coast, your Smile Happys,
00:19:45your West Will Powers, your Art Collectors are better horses
00:19:51by the numbers.
00:19:52But I'm not so sure the numbers really do justice to defund it.
00:19:57All you have to do is look at his race before last
00:19:59in the Californian, where he completely missed the break
00:20:03and still circled the field and drew off and won by three lengths.
00:20:08And with the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita this year,
00:20:11I mean, that's going to be, he's going to be tough to beat
00:20:14if he holds form between now and then.
00:20:17So, yeah, some big grade ones at Santa Anita.
00:20:20But those two, I think, really are the most interesting two.
00:20:23Well, we have Macadamia as well.
00:20:25She took down the game lead for trainer Phil D'Amato,
00:20:28his first grade one win in the race with Tiago Pereira,
00:20:31who's been on an absolute tear.
00:20:33She's a tricky mare to ride.
00:20:35She's tough in the morning.
00:20:36She'll drop the rider in the morning.
00:20:38Tiago goes out each and every week, every week,
00:20:42and works her on the training track without fail.
00:20:45So kudos to him.
00:20:46But I wanted to mention one more horse who we will see
00:20:49in the Breeders' Cup sprint, Spirit of McKenna.
00:20:52Did you guys see how good he was in the triple bend on Saturday?
00:20:55He is a beast.
00:20:57And he is a beast to look at.
00:20:59He is one of the most beautiful horses you can see in the flesh.
00:21:03Like, go sapper out of a gilded time mare.
00:21:05If you can put the description or the picture of what a horse
00:21:09should look like with that kind of breeding, it's him.
00:21:12He is amazing.
00:21:16Well, Randy, let's get to a subject I know we don't really want to talk about,
00:21:19but we have to, because this situation in Churchill Downs
00:21:23is just raging out of control.
00:21:25And it reminds me a lot of what happened at Santa Anita in 2019
00:21:29for two reasons.
00:21:30Number one, it's a terrible story.
00:21:32Number two, the mainstream media has latched on to this.
00:21:36And we now have 12 horses that have died at Churchill Downs
00:21:39since they started with Wild on Ice, breaking down,
00:21:43leading up to the Kentucky Derby.
00:21:45And, you know, please don't blame the media for this.
00:21:48They're covering a news story that is something that needs to be covered.
00:21:53But, you know, we all, when this happens, we all really worry about
00:21:58what we call the social license, racing social license,
00:22:01that has been given to it to continue to operate.
00:22:04And I don't think racing is going to suffer any drastic changes
00:22:09or any tracks that can go out of business or anything like that
00:22:13or any state's going to shut racing down within the next few years.
00:22:17But how might this affect things going down the road?
00:22:20And, you know, where are we going to be 25 years from now
00:22:23is really a big part of the discussion.
00:22:27I wish I had the answers.
00:22:30But a couple of good things have happened.
00:22:32And today we had a press conference over HISA,
00:22:35talked about what they're doing to try to control the situation
00:22:39and get a handle on that.
00:22:41They're working in consort with the Kentucky Racing Commission
00:22:44and Churchill Downs to see if they can come up with anything
00:22:47that is a common factor that has led to these horses breaking down.
00:22:51And Lisa Lazarus has said that they can't find anything wrong with the track.
00:22:55So they don't know really what the story is.
00:22:58But at least they are working on that.
00:23:01A couple somewhat minor things.
00:23:03I mean, it's cliche to say this, but again,
00:23:06the sport has to do everything possible in its control
00:23:12to get this situation under control and to try to take these numbers
00:23:17and to lessen them as much as we can.
00:23:20And I don't think it's really appropriate to point any fingers at Churchill Downs.
00:23:24I don't know that they've done anything wrong.
00:23:26But I will bring up one example of where maybe racing, you know,
00:23:30should have thought something like this through.
00:23:32In New York, there's a rule called the poor performance list.
00:23:36And if a horse loses by 25 lengths or more,
00:23:39they go on this poor performance list and they can't get off of it
00:23:42until they have a satisfactory workout and it is examined by a veterinarian.
00:23:48And I think the reason why, I know the reason why,
00:23:50is if a horse is losing by this many lengths,
00:23:54it may not be because the horse is slow.
00:23:56It could mean that the horse has some sort of problems
00:23:59that is keeping it from performing.
00:24:01The horse that broke down most recently, Kimberly Dream,
00:24:05had lost her last three races by a combined 65 and three-quarter lengths,
00:24:10including one where she lost by 32 and a quarter lengths.
00:24:13I can argue that horse should not have been racing.
00:24:15And I think a lot of people would agree with me.
00:24:17But you know what, even if I'm right about that,
00:24:19that gets the number down to 11, and 11 is awful.
00:24:22It's just maybe not quite as awful as 12.
00:24:24That's one little thing that I would hope that Churchill Downs
00:24:27and all racetracks would look at immediately as we're looking for
00:24:31what can we do to make changes to make the situation better.
00:24:35Yeah.
00:24:36Heiss is holding a veterinary summit in Kentucky, in Lexington,
00:24:41where they're going to try to address the situation.
00:24:44And in the Daily Racing Forum, Matt Haggerty reported from Lisa Lazarus
00:24:50that she's had talks with Churchill Downs management
00:24:53about the possibility of suspending racing at Churchill for the short term
00:24:58until they can get a grip on what's going on.
00:25:00Now, that's just conjecture.
00:25:02That's not anything for sure.
00:25:04But it just shows you the level of concern that there is about the situation
00:25:11right now, and there needs to be a level of concern.
00:25:15People, I think, too often, Bill, within the sport of horse racing,
00:25:19and it's human nature, I think, they want to try to focus in on one factor,
00:25:28one factor, one thing that's causing problems, regardless of what problems are,
00:25:34when normally it's much more complicated than that.
00:25:38It's what they call multi-factorial.
00:25:41There are various different things that combine in a perfect storm,
00:25:45along with randomness, to cause something like this.
00:25:49Generally, it's got something to do with the racing surface.
00:25:52Now, Churchill Downs says they have had three different examinations
00:25:58of the racing surface, found nothing wrong, but they're calling in Dennis Moore,
00:26:02who's one of the country's foremost experts on racing surfaces.
00:26:06They've already had McPeterson look at it.
00:26:08But Dennis Moore is now going to give a fresh set of eyes
00:26:11on exactly what's going on with the surface.
00:26:14But as the studies have shown over a long period of time,
00:26:19the big majority of the horses that suffer catastrophic breakdowns
00:26:24have some sort of undetected preexisting injury that leads to it,
00:26:30that creates a weakness that then leads to a catastrophic breakdown.
00:26:35And the answer is going to have to be the same at Churchill Downs
00:26:39as it was at Santa Anita, and it's going to have to be the same
00:26:42at other racetracks around the country who felt like they could kind of put this off
00:26:46because it might be more expensive and because, oh, this is Santa Anita's problem.
00:26:51It's not our problem. It's everybody's problem.
00:26:54They're going to have to come up with a technology,
00:26:57which is in the beginning stages out there, but just more veterinary presence,
00:27:03more examinations, more x-rays, more everything to try to identify
00:27:11these problem horses before it gets to the point where we have
00:27:16what's going on right now at Churchill Downs.
00:27:18So it's various, and what you pointed out about, you know,
00:27:23poor performance in horses that can sometimes lead to outcomes like this.
00:27:29There are a lot of things that are going to have to be considered.
00:27:32It's not just one answer. It's not just one magic wand.
00:27:36But it's something the entire industry, not just Kentucky,
00:27:40not just Santa Anita, is going to have to look long and hard at.
00:27:44Right. So, Randy, I've got a little bone to pick with you.
00:27:46You twice referred to stories written by Matt Haggerty in the Daily Racing Forum.
00:27:50You got me in a thoroughbred, didn't you?
00:27:52I wrote both those stories, too.
00:27:54Sorry about that, Bill.
00:27:56All right.
00:27:58Bring a little light to an otherwise dreary, awful conversation that we're having here.
00:28:03Hey, Randy, in tomorrow's Thoroughbred Daily News,
00:28:05which I know you will be reading now because I chastise you.
00:28:08Earl Mack, very prominent person in racing and, you know, great guy.
00:28:13He's come out with something that I think I talked about with you last week.
00:28:17When we say as a unified group, those of us in horse racing,
00:28:23which means journalists like ourselves, broadcasters, trainers, owners, racetrack management, et cetera,
00:28:29we tell the public that we're doing everything in our power to make the situation better.
00:28:36Well, we're not because the most obvious solution is right in the face.
00:28:42And I know it's not going to happen because of the economics of the sport.
00:28:46But when horses break down, I'm repeating what I said last week, but I want to say it again.
00:28:51When horses break down, I'm three and a half times more likely to break down a catastrophic injury in a dirt race than a synthetic surface race.
00:29:00Then, you know, why are we not going back to synthetic surfaces?
00:29:04I think we gave up on them way too early. And again, it's a pipe dream.
00:29:09I know it's never going to happen, but, you know,
00:29:13isn't it time for people to start taking that a little bit more seriously? I think that it is.
00:29:17Yeah, I mean, New York, when they had a spate of breakdowns a while back, I want to say the mid-20-teens,
00:29:28they instituted some changes and such, including maintenance of the racetrack,
00:29:36that brought the injury rate down not to the synthetic level, but extremely low in New York racetracks.
00:29:45And now that's kind of begun to tick back up a little bit.
00:29:48But yeah, I mean, horse racing can't say that we've done everything.
00:29:53If there is a surface change out there, that could make a huge difference.
00:29:58But I agree with you. It obviously was tried in California at all three Southern California tracks.
00:30:06The reviews were mixed, although the catastrophic breakdown rate plummeted.
00:30:13And I don't think it's going to happen either, just because of the economics of the sport
00:30:17and the fact that you've got decades and decades of breeding for dirt and synthetics is not dirt.
00:30:24And that would have to change as well. But, you know, it is something that maybe more tracks should take a look at.
00:30:30Yeah, I mean, that's definitely I agree with you. I mean, it's one of the answers, but it's not going to happen.
00:30:38But please read Earl Mac's op-ed in the Thoroughbred Daily News because he makes some very good points about that.
00:30:45The other thing, too, is that, you know, if something's going on in your racetrack, pick up the phone and call Santa Anita.
00:30:53I want to know everything that you did. I don't care how much it cost.
00:30:59I don't care how much extra effort it was.
00:31:02Again, it's not the be all and end all. Horses still break down at Santa Anita, but rather, you know, it's become a rather rare happening out there.
00:31:13I hope somebody at Churchill Towns has picked up the phone, called, you know, Belinda Stronach or, you know, somebody at Santa Anita and said,
00:31:25tell us how you did this, and we're going to follow every single step that you follow because, you know, this was a huge problem there.
00:31:32And it's still a problem, but it's a lot less of a problem.
00:31:35So, you know, call Aiden Butler, call somebody that works for Santa Anita and pick their brains about this,
00:31:41because they have done a better job than really anybody else in the industry addressing these problems.
00:31:46Couldn't agree more. And hopefully we'll have some brighter news to report in coming weeks about this particular situation.
00:31:52Meanwhile, on a much lighter note, the TD and Riders room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association,
00:32:00the two big Pennsylvania breads that everybody's been talking about, Caravelle and Angel of Empire.
00:32:06There's news on Caravelle. She won't be going to royalize Ascot after all.
00:32:11They are now going to point Caravelle for the Jiper stakes at Terp Sprint on the Belmont Stakes undercard on June the 10th.
00:32:18As far as Angel of Empire, right now, all systems go for the Kentucky Derby third place finisher to come back in the Belmont Stakes,
00:32:26along with his stablemate Hitch Shove in the Brad Cox barn.
00:32:31Bill, I thought Angel of Empire ran a very solid race in the Kentucky Derby.
00:32:37I know the pace helped him, but I thought he was going best of all in the last furlong to finish third.
00:32:45Yeah, Randy, we've still got a week and a half or so to make our Belmont picks.
00:32:48But if you put the proverbial gun to my head, I think I might pick him right now.
00:32:53I've kind of soured a little bit on Tappet Trice because I didn't like his Derby.
00:32:56I mean, we had talked after the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:32:58Well, we know who's going to win the Belmont. Now it's going to be Tappet Trice.
00:33:01And he's going to be really overbet in there.
00:33:04But Angel of Empire, you can't fault him. He ran a great race in the Kentucky Derby.
00:33:07Yes, the pace was to his benefit, but he was right in there fighting to the end.
00:33:11And it does look like a horse that can go a mile and a half.
00:33:14So I might be picking the P.A. Brett in the Belmont Stakes. We'll find out.
00:33:17I like Angel of Empire. Give me some of that Angel of Empire.
00:33:21How many is Pletcher going to have in there?
00:33:24How many what?
00:33:25How many is Pletcher going to have in there and Cox?
00:33:27I mean, are they going to have the bulk of the field?
00:33:31Oh, I think two each. Wouldn't it be right now? Tappet Trice and Forte and Hitsho.
00:33:36Oh, I know. I believe Brad Cox is considering a third horse in there.
00:33:39But his big two will be Hitsho and Angel of Empire.
00:33:42And as we were recording this on Tuesday, it looks like all systems are go for national treasure.
00:33:47He has worked to the satisfaction of his team at Belmont Park.
00:33:50It looks like he is a go in the Belmont Stakes, which is good to see.
00:33:54The Preakness winner coming back in the third leg of the Triple Crown.
00:33:57We don't even get that all the time anymore.
00:33:59As everybody wants to head to the hills after the Kentucky Derby is over.
00:34:04So, you know, reasons why we should change the Triple Crown. Right, Randy?
00:34:08I finally talked you into it, right?
00:34:13All right. That again brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:34:18Coming up next, the Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:34:21Here's a hint. Ready?
00:34:23And down the stretch they come.
00:34:25This is going to be fun.
00:34:27The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:34:32Six races for PA Sired, PA Bred two-year-olds at parks.
00:34:36Two $100,000 contests at five and a half furlongs.
00:34:40On August 21st, PA Day at the Races.
00:34:43September 23rd, PA Derby Day.
00:34:46As two races at six and a half furlongs.
00:34:48Both with a $150,000 purse.
00:34:51And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
00:34:55For more, go to pabred.com.
00:34:58The Fastest Horse of the Week is brought to you by Windstar Farm.
00:35:03And the Sire Jacob West once called, quote,
00:35:06hands down one of the most physically impressive horses I have ever seen.
00:35:12More on that stallion later.
00:35:14But first, the Fastest Horse of the Week, based on buyer speed figures,
00:35:19is defunded with his win in the Hollywood Gold Cup.
00:35:24And by the way, three cheers for Santa Anita going back to that name.
00:35:26I know they didn't just do it this year, but instead of Gold Cup, it's Santa Anita.
00:35:30A nod to history.
00:35:31The Hollywood Gold Cup won by Defunded, who is head and shoulders right now.
00:35:37The best older horse in California.
00:35:39Again, only a $100,000 buyer speed figure.
00:35:42But I don't think that quite does the horse justice the way he's been dominating his competition out there.
00:35:48Even when he didn't get off to a fast start a couple of races back in the Californian, right?
00:35:53The three amigos, Pegram, Watson, Whiteman, getting back on track after, of course,
00:35:59they lost having a meltdown at Pimlico.
00:36:01So that's a nice little turnaround for them.
00:36:03It just shows you in horse racing, you can be down one week and sky high the next.
00:36:08So congratulations to all involved in yet another, a ninth Hollywood Gold Cup win.
00:36:13We said that earlier for trainer Bob Maverick.
00:36:15Defunded the Fastest Horse of the Week.
00:36:18Now, for that Fast Siren Win Star, Independence Hall.
00:36:23He was an undefeated juvenile.
00:36:24Set a new stakes record in the Nashua, earning a 101 buyer, winning by a dozen lengths.
00:36:30He was a stakes winner at two, three, and four.
00:36:32From six and a half furlongs to nine furlongs.
00:36:35All track conditions.
00:36:36Went wire to wire to win by seven and a quarter in the Fayette with a 105 buyer.
00:36:41And he's from the immediate family of Breeders' Cup sprint winner, Desert Stormer,
00:36:45and multiple grade one winner, Better Lucky.
00:36:48There's a lot to like there.
00:36:50From Independence Hall, standing for $10,000 at Win Star.
00:36:57Now, the Green Group Guest of the Week brought to you, of course, by the Green Group,
00:37:01a tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:37:05For more information, go to www.greenco.com.
00:37:12And we bring in now the Green Group Guest of the Week.
00:37:14This is a special treat for me.
00:37:16Green Group Guest of the Week is legendary announcer, Dave Johnson.
00:37:19And I don't throw that term out loosely.
00:37:21He is indeed a legend.
00:37:22And he's been my broadcast partner in Sirius XM Radio for these last 17, 18 years.
00:37:27We're down the stretch.
00:37:28And it's always great to have Dave on and talk to him, go down memory lane.
00:37:31But especially with the Belmont stakes coming up,
00:37:34because this is the 50th anniversary of Secretariat's win in the Belmont.
00:37:38And Dave Johnson was on the roof of Belmont that day,
00:37:41calling the race for the New York Racing Association.
00:37:44And Dave, welcome.
00:37:45And in between the Belmont,
00:37:48and the last time you saw Secretariat at a New York track was the Wood Memorial,
00:37:52where he was defeated.
00:37:53How much did things change over those seven, eight weeks or whatever?
00:37:57It was amazing, Bill.
00:37:58And it's good to be here with my old buddies today.
00:38:01When he left after the Wood, he had been defeated.
00:38:05And he was a loser, basically.
00:38:07Even though when he went to Kentucky, he was still the favorite in the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:11But the point was, he had been defeated.
00:38:13And if he lost the Kentucky Derby, he was definitely going to be retired.
00:38:19So with the Kentucky Derby on the horizon, he won it.
00:38:23He won the Preakness.
00:38:24And when he returned to Belmont, he returned not as a loser from the Wood,
00:38:29but on the cusp of greatness, because he was one mile and a half away from immortality.
00:38:36So that was quite a switch from as he left Belmont and when he came back.
00:38:41Well, Dave, we know you're a man of many talents.
00:38:43You're a renaissance kind of guy.
00:38:45Not just race caller, but you've been involved with Broadway, Sirius XM.
00:38:51I didn't realize, though, that you're actually a record producer as well.
00:38:57You remember this?
00:38:59I do.
00:39:00And there's a story behind it, Randy.
00:39:03When I was working as the track announcer for New York Racing Association,
00:39:07we went into December for the first time.
00:39:10And I went to my boss, Jack Crumpy, and I said, this would be a great giveaway.
00:39:17It was only a dollar.
00:39:19It was one dollar to produce.
00:39:21And I said, let's give it away on the first Saturday.
00:39:24And anybody who comes in gets the secretary.
00:39:27He was a huge star.
00:39:29And I love Jack Crumpy, but he said to me, well, it's a record?
00:39:34And I said, yeah.
00:39:35He said, who has a record player?
00:39:37I don't have a record player.
00:39:39And that was the end of that.
00:39:41So I produced it.
00:39:42I sold it through the racing forum.
00:39:45I think we sold 10,000 of them for $8 or $10 a piece.
00:39:49And then I sold them on cassettes.
00:39:51That doesn't seem like it, Randy, but it was 50 years ago.
00:39:56I don't know how I wound up with it.
00:39:58I think Don Grisham gave it to me as a Christmas gift.
00:40:01It's got 15 of your race calls of secretariat's races on here.
00:40:06No, no.
00:40:07I called 16, but I used a lot of other people.
00:40:11I used Phil Georgieff and other announcers.
00:40:16I called 16 of his races, but there's not 16 of mine or 15 on there.
00:40:22Well, I have two questions about the record.
00:40:25First of all, you used Ray Haight's call of the Belmont Stakes instead of your own.
00:40:31I did.
00:40:33Why?
00:40:34I just wanted to have more sounds on it.
00:40:37There were enough of mine on there.
00:40:40I don't know how many.
00:40:41I think I had eight or 10 of mine.
00:40:44I wish I had used mine on it.
00:40:47It also has your call of his final race in the Canadian International at Woodbine.
00:40:52How did that come about?
00:40:54Wyn Elliott sent me up to Woodbine to do the final race on CBS Radio, which I did.
00:41:01He was a great lover of horse racing, Randy.
00:41:04He had Sports Central all weekend, and he did racing from all over the country as part of it.
00:41:10So I got to go up to Canada and call the race up at Woodbine in the fog and the mist.
00:41:18Think of the pressure on Eddie Maple to ride the big red horse that day.
00:41:23It was amazing.
00:41:25Dave, so great to have you here.
00:41:28Zoe!
00:41:29Because I'm obviously so much younger than Randy and Bill.
00:41:34And me!
00:41:36Exactly.
00:41:37I wasn't privy to all of your race calls.
00:41:40Can you please give me a race call?
00:41:43Come on, Dave.
00:41:45Oh, it's Randy in front by half a length.
00:41:48And here comes Zoe on the outside, coupled with Louise's jambalaya.
00:41:55That would be the jambalaya handicap.
00:41:58Bill Finley in the middle of the racetrack.
00:42:00And down the stretch they come!
00:42:02Bill Finley!
00:42:03Zoe between horses!
00:42:04Randy at the rail!
00:42:05It's a photo finish!
00:42:07What a race!
00:42:08What a crew!
00:42:11That's awesome.
00:42:12I haven't called a race in a long time, Zoe.
00:42:15That is awesome.
00:42:16But I wanted to ask you, and down the stretch they come, where did that come from?
00:42:21How did you moniker it?
00:42:23And why is it trademarked?
00:42:25I was using that call when I was at Fairmount Park in the 1960s.
00:42:31It's fantastic.
00:42:32Yes.
00:42:33And I got the job at Santa Anita.
00:42:37And the racing sound system there was the same one when I worked there in 1970s as in the 1935 movie Mark's Brother's Day at the Races.
00:42:51And in order to be heard over any kind of a crowd, you had to put a rumble underneath.
00:42:57You had to sort of emphasize it.
00:42:59And so that was a phrase I used a lot.
00:43:02And down the stretch they come, so and so.
00:43:04But when this big old white horse, Bygers, was on his way to the Santa Anita Derby, the handicap, the big cap.
00:43:12Larry Sterling.
00:43:13We had, and what an eye appealing horse.
00:43:17He used to wheel to the middle of the track and smoke home with Daryl McHarg aboard.
00:43:22But in order to be heard, I pushed it.
00:43:25I pumped it.
00:43:26And down the stretch they come.
00:43:28And then, Zoe, people started to say it back to me.
00:43:32And then the Los Angeles television stations would pick up the call of the race for the evening news at that point.
00:43:41No matter where I said it, at the top of the stretch or the eighth ball or wherever.
00:43:45I was down in Atlanta with my sister one time.
00:43:48And as we were coming down some steps, a man said to me, and down the steps he comes.
00:43:53That's how it happened.
00:43:57David Letterman certainly liked it as well.
00:44:00Oh, he loved it.
00:44:01He said he would jump up on the couch up and down during the stretch drive.
00:44:05But I did trade market, and we've raised almost $300,000 through our good friend, Drew Malika, who handles all the contracts and the money.
00:44:16And we've given every penny of it away to racetrack charities, to scholarships, retired jockeys, horses, foundations.
00:44:26It's been a wonderful moneymaker win-win situation.
00:44:30And that's how it came about.
00:44:31Dave, tell Zoe, who wasn't even born in 1973, unlike us old guys.
00:44:38People talk a lot about the country at that time and how coming out of Watergate, coming out of Nixon, coming out of the Vietnam War.
00:44:47Randy and I were alive.
00:44:48I was too little to really be able to process this sort of things.
00:44:52But people say this country needed a hero.
00:44:55Here comes this beautiful, magnificent horse who filled the void.
00:44:59Tell us about that.
00:45:01Well, just to put it all in perspective, I'm 82 now.
00:45:04So I don't know how old you guys are, but you're a lot younger than I am.
00:45:08So while I was calling the races, and I was really good at it, but I was also younger.
00:45:16But in Watergate and Vietnam, and it was before people scratched off lottery tickets and before sports books, racing was the great place to go and make a legal bet.
00:45:32And then along comes this great horse with a great crew.
00:45:37Just think of the crew that it had.
00:45:39Lucian Loren training and Ronnie riding, Ronnie Turcotte.
00:45:43And Mrs. Tweedy was a great cheerleader.
00:45:46She captured the audience.
00:45:50And when you'd see her on television rooting for her horse, you wanted her horse to win.
00:45:55So it was all of those things that came together with this magnificent animal.
00:46:01I mean, Secretariat just came at the right time and with the right people.
00:46:06And the sport didn't have the problems, Bill, that it has now with so many diversions.
00:46:14It was a great place where I could make a record, or Bill Knack could write a book, or we could have a television show about it.
00:46:22And people loved Secretariat and loved the story.
00:46:28And it was a hell of a story.
00:46:30Well, Dave, you saw your share of all-time greats even before Secretariat.
00:46:34Maybe not at Fairmont Park.
00:46:36I love Fairmont Park, but we won't go quite that far.
00:46:41When was it, since you called all of his early races, when was it that if you recall, first saying to yourself, wow, this horse could be really something extra special?
00:46:55Well, Randy, it was before he ever ran.
00:46:59You know, he ran on July the 4th, the following year that Reva Ridge won the Derby in the Belmont.
00:47:08So Reva Ridge had just come back from winning, from losing the Triple Crown, but winning the Derby in the Belmont.
00:47:15So Reva Ridge was a star and Secretariat had never run.
00:47:22But everybody at the track knew about this big red horse that Lucian Loren trained that flew like the wind in the morning.
00:47:31And everybody was waiting for this big old horse to show up on the racetrack for a bet.
00:47:37Yeah, yeah. So we could bet the horse.
00:47:39You know, the horse went off at three to one with Paul Feliciano aboard.
00:47:43Why did Paul, an apprentice jockey, ride?
00:47:46Because Lucian wanted to get a better price.
00:47:50So we all knew about Reva, we all knew about Secretariat because Reva Ridge had been a big star of the year, but everybody knew.
00:47:59And so when he lost his first race, we knew that we could give him another chance.
00:48:06And so, of course, then he won his next race and broke his maiden.
00:48:09And then. I mean, the Sanford and the hopeful and, you know, it was quite a it was quite a two year old year.
00:48:16He was horse of the year as a two year old, Randy, which is unheard of.
00:48:20Yeah, really, really unheard of.
00:48:23What a terrific time to be in racing and witness Secretariat and call his races.
00:48:30And and we've gone from that to where we are now.
00:48:33And I don't know if you realize this, but Bill has finally jumped on the soapbox with Randy.
00:48:38Oh, he knows, he knows.
00:48:40Triple crown. I mean, I didn't think this could ever possibly happen.
00:48:44What are your thoughts on it? I'm pretty sure I know what you know.
00:48:47I don't think it'll change in my lifetime, but it could.
00:48:51And I and I totally understand that it could.
00:48:55And if it does, that's fine. But then that then you're going to have to put a little asterisk next to any horse that wins.
00:49:02And and so that's the reason.
00:49:06Just think of what Secretariat did in winning the Triple Crown.
00:49:10He won the Bayshore and then he won the Gotham Mile.
00:49:14And two weeks later, he won the Wood.
00:49:16And two weeks later, he won the Derby. And two weeks later, we won the Preakness.
00:49:19What would anybody do that today? Look what happened at the Derby.
00:49:23Only one horse came back out of the Derby field because the pressure was on him.
00:49:28And I hated him. I bet the winner in the Preakness, as Bill will tell you.
00:49:33Secretariat were racing today. They would have passed the Preakness.
00:49:36And, you know, I mean, that would have been the modern thing.
00:49:38Oh, he's tired after running in the Kentucky Derby. He needs a break.
00:49:42We'll see at the Travers. Oh, my goodness.
00:49:44They would have passed the Preakness. Right. OK.
00:49:47So, Dave, let's talk about the race call.
00:49:50And, you know, so you're two minutes and 24 seconds.
00:49:53You're on the microphone giving this call.
00:49:56What do you remember most about not the race, but your race call?
00:50:01And how did it feel to see something unfold in front of you?
00:50:05In front of you, that was something I think most people didn't think they could ever, ever see.
00:50:09Oh, you know, I could see a horse in my Triple Crown race by 31 lengths.
00:50:13No, I thought he would win. I know Lucian Lauren thought he would win by 10.
00:50:19He told that, you know, before the race, he said, I think I'll win by 10.
00:50:23Ronnie thought he would win.
00:50:25The thing, Bill, that I remember the most about my call was coming through the stretch.
00:50:32And you have to remember, 50 years ago, we as announcers all around the country,
00:50:38we were prohibited from calling the finish unless we were doing it on a radio or TV.
00:50:43And I wasn't. I was calling it for the track.
00:50:46And we couldn't call it under the wire because there was something called the Wire Act of 1938.
00:50:53And it prohibited the result of the race getting outside the confines of the racetrack until the next race was run or official.
00:51:02You remember, I don't think you remember, Zoe, but Bill and Randy,
00:51:07remember when there used to be a string of telephones and before the first race, they would lock them up with chains?
00:51:13Yes.
00:51:14So that was immediately, I was handcuffed there.
00:51:19But the other thing is that I used in my later years, jockey names and trainer names a lot on television is working with Randy on so many shows.
00:51:31But back then at the New York Racing Association, I couldn't do that.
00:51:36My boss, Pat O'Brien, Pat Lynch, got a an interoffice memo was before emails.
00:51:44And it said, please inform Mr. Johnson that this is not jockey racing, it's horse racing.
00:51:50Don't use the names of jockeys in the call. Well, that's changed a lot.
00:51:54I think I helped change and Tom Durkin really helped change that a lot, which is great.
00:51:58So I remember, though, in the stretch drive, I called Secretariat in front by 25 lengths at the 16th pole.
00:52:09And I had never called a horse in a race other than a steeplechase race.
00:52:14There were some steeplechase races that were 25 lengths, but never in a race at Belmont.
00:52:22And so I called him in front by 25 lengths at the 16th pole.
00:52:26And then I shut the mic off at the 70 at 70 yard mark, saying, you know, it was Secretariat wins the Triple Crown or something.
00:52:35I don't think Naira has the call. Somebody pilfered it, I guess.
00:52:40But that's that's what I remember, how how gigantic the margin of victory was.
00:52:46And it seems like yesterday, Bill, doesn't seem like 50 years ago.
00:52:51So, Dave, you referenced Tom Durkin as we get ready to head into this year's Belmont Stakes.
00:52:55What are your thoughts about Tom making a comeback in the Belmont Stakes for Fox?
00:53:00And does it and does it at all make you wonder? Hmm.
00:53:04I wonder if I could come back for a one off like that.
00:53:07Well, first, let me answer that first. I said to my friend, Tom Werbel, and I said, I wouldn't come back and call that race for a million dollars.
00:53:16And Tom said to me, if my dad was your agent, it would be five million.
00:53:23But I think it's great. And I talk and email with Tom all the time.
00:53:29As a matter of fact, we emailed yesterday and today.
00:53:32And I reminded him that I said that if Fox has the eight year contract that you can do all eight years and still be at the finish of that eight years younger than I am today.
00:53:46So I think he's I think it's a great thing that I think Fox is is very smart doing it.
00:53:53It's a brilliant move. Especially without a triple crown possibility.
00:53:58So I think it's great. And he's going to be Tom's terrific.
00:54:02He he's out there practicing all weekend at Belmont Park, calling it.
00:54:08And as he said to me, he said, I don't I didn't I didn't call into tape.
00:54:12There are no more tapes. He said, I use my iPhone.
00:54:17Modernization at its best. Well, Dave, you're an extremely young looking 82.
00:54:23What do you do for fun nowadays? We know you do the radio show.
00:54:26Are you going back to ask it this year? I wish I could.
00:54:29No, I haven't. I won't be going back to ask it.
00:54:32But I do the radio show from where I'm sitting right now.
00:54:35And Bill and the producer are on the other side of the room.
00:54:40I was watching Fairmont Park earlier today. And Kim Sampson, by the way, Bill, she was on our Sirius XM show.
00:54:49She's 63 years old. She won the third or she won the fourth race, I believe.
00:54:53How about that at Fairmont Park? So, you know, us old timers, we're OK.
00:55:01Dave, after the Belmont, I think, you know, people who were in racing that day said we'll never see anything like this again.
00:55:08And we really haven't. But last year we saw maybe the closest thing to Secretariat's achievements we saw with Flightline.
00:55:16How do you compare the two? And what did you think of him?
00:55:19There was a lot of comparisons and they used the word Secretariat a lot talking about Flightline.
00:55:24But he had such a limited career. And what was it, six races? How many did he did he run? Six?
00:55:30Six races. And I just didn't I just didn't like I didn't like the comparison because he never really did what Secretariat did in that short amount of time.
00:55:42And on various distances, sprints, distance, turf, dirt, slop, fast, firm.
00:55:51But he was he was extraordinary. And I didn't think as as we talked through the year before,
00:55:58I don't I didn't think I'd ever vote for a horse of the year with six starts or a horse into the Hall of Fame.
00:56:03But he deserves it. He was great. It was that was that was terrific, but didn't do what Secretariat did.
00:56:10So I don't think you can compare him. Can you compare them, Randy, Zoe?
00:56:15Mike, from just in terms of brilliance, I think he probably was the most brilliant horse we've seen since Secretariat.
00:56:25Maybe Spectacular Bid would be in there, you know, but I agree with you on accomplishments.
00:56:32I don't think you can. Obviously, you know, Secretariat did so much more with 21 lifetime starts, packed a lot of of firsts and a lot of records into that 21 race career, didn't he?
00:56:44And I think it goes that, you know, back in the day, they weren't afraid to get a horse beaten like he was beat.
00:56:51Who cares? Let's run him back in two weeks. Let's try him on the grass. Let's do that. And he was still brilliant.
00:56:57So it's it's chalk and cheese. You can't compare horses nowadays to back then, because nowadays you've got a good cult.
00:57:05Everyone wants to keep him undefeated, which means running them every three months, apparently.
00:57:10So it's just apples and oranges. I don't think we're ever going to see that kind of campaign again, which is a shame.
00:57:17And and with the Belmont coming up, that was the highlight, at least for me, of his career.
00:57:24I mean, it was the pinnacle. It was the greatest spectacle in my lifetime of watching horse races, what he did that day.
00:57:35If you brought any horse in the world.
00:57:38To the Belmont that afternoon at a mile and a half.
00:57:44Secretariat beats him. It was it was just spectacular.
00:57:49It was the greatest moment for me in horse racing was his victory in the in the Belmont.
00:57:56I don't think you'll ever match it. Dave, you'd be a better person to weigh in on this than me.
00:58:00But I've said that you take any horse in the history of horse racing, have them run the best races of their life.
00:58:07I mean, Man O'War would not have beaten Secretariat that day.
00:58:11I don't think so. I mean, they were lost by 31 lengths, but I really think that I mean, that's one of those hypotheticals you can never prove.
00:58:18But I think his greatness was so that race was I mean, it was miraculous.
00:58:22It's something you can't even believe that this is happening.
00:58:25And it was nobody could believe it happened. And and the people who knew racing in the stands and in the press box,
00:58:33I heard about people in the press box saying, oh, Ronnie's going to get him beat. He's going too fast.
00:58:38It's it's impossible to keep this, you know, 12 seconds.
00:58:42And it's impossible. Damn, the horse did it. You know, it was amazing.
00:58:48Yeah. So I I'm old, but I didn't see Man O'War Bill.
00:58:55I thought you called his first race in Jamaica or something like that.
00:59:01All right. Well, Dave, this has been a real treat. I get to talk to you every Saturday.
00:59:04It's nice on Sirius XM down the stretch on Channel 85 from 10 to 1.
00:59:09A great treat to go down memory lane with you.
00:59:11And we'll have some fun on the radio show as well as we approach the 50th anniversary of the greatest performance in the history of horse racing.
00:59:18Thanks, Bill. But thanks for having a little chat with these two.
00:59:22I've worked with Brandi so many Saturday afternoons on ESPN and Zoe and I.
00:59:27We got to get some more gumbo down to Louise Louise's. All right.
00:59:31Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Dave. Thank you, Dave.
00:59:35And as this week's guest of the week, Dave will receive a free one hour tax consultation from the Green Group.
00:59:42If you want to learn more about how they can save you money on your taxes again, that Web site is www.greenco.com.
00:59:51Are you paying too much in taxes? The Green Group can help.
00:59:55There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
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01:00:52With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
01:01:04Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high as is average purse per race, outpacing California, Florida and New York.
01:01:13Kentucky Breads, breed them, raise them, race them.
01:01:18We all win.
01:01:23The TD and Riders are brought to you by Kentucky Breads.
01:01:26Following Mayasia's win in the Kentucky Derby, Kentucky Bread, National Treasure, became the ninth consecutive Kentucky Bread to win the Preakness Stakes.
01:01:36You too can reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
01:01:40And you talk about money.
01:01:42Combined purse money paid at an all-time high, $165 million in 2022, way up from $134 million, which was big enough, in 2021.
01:01:53Average field size in Kentucky, 8.4, higher than Florida, New York, California.
01:01:58Average money per race, purse money, $77,000 plus, outpacing all other racing jurisdictions.
01:02:06With some of the fullest fields in the country, quality racing year-round, there is no better time to breed and race in the bluegrass.
01:02:16And if you believed in Kentucky Breads, maybe you would have had Rich Strike as the winner of last year's Kentucky Derby at 80-1.
01:02:22An underlay to me at 80-1, by the way.
01:02:25But let's not pick on Rich Strike because he is a neat horse and did some, that was such a memorable race.
01:02:31But this whole saga of the movie and the owner fighting and the trainer fighting and Eric Reid resigning, the next chapter has been written now.
01:02:41And Rich Strike is going to none other than Bill Mott to be his new trainer.
01:02:46Don't think the owner, Rick Dawson, could have picked a better person.
01:02:49Bill Mott is as good as it gets in this business, but he's going to have his work cut out for him.
01:02:56Not only has he lost six straight since the Kentucky Derby, but his recent form has been very poor.
01:03:02And in a story that Randy didn't read because he was busy reading the racing form, I talked to Rick Dawson and he said,
01:03:07The next race, I just want him to be competitive.
01:03:11Just don't want him to run up the track and see where we go from there.
01:03:14But Randy, can Bill Mott work some magic with Rich Strike?
01:03:18I think that sounds like your quote of Rick Dawson.
01:03:22He's striking the right tone right now about Rich Strike because he's really got to turn it around.
01:03:27His form is deteriorating. He had a bad race with no obvious excuse in the Clark.
01:03:32And then they gave him time off and said he was training really well.
01:03:35And he basically just ran around the racetrack behind the field in the alley Sheba on on Oaks, on the Oaks undercard, Churchill Downs.
01:03:43So that's two. Honestly, that's two allowance caliber races back to back for our upset Kentucky Derby winner.
01:03:51So these they've really got to turn things around if the horse is good enough to turn things around.
01:03:58And that's an if then Bill Mott will get the best out of it.
01:04:02You know that he's still eligible for a sale of that condition.
01:04:06So he's got many, many ways to go. Physically, he looks in good shape.
01:04:10I've watched him in the paddock at Churchill and he's a beautiful looking horse.
01:04:15And they're going to give him a little bit of respite.
01:04:18He's at Blackwood right now, just going through the motions before he gets to Mott.
01:04:23I think he's going to get three horses from Rick Dawson and the other ones are going to go to Jerry O'Dwyer.
01:04:29But I mean, look what Mott did to the horse that won the Pacific World Cup.
01:04:34My gosh, my brain's not a collector. He turned the horse around.
01:04:38The horse was good initially. Tom Drury did a great job with him.
01:04:42And then he went down and then Bill got him and he went up again.
01:04:47So Bill's a magic maker and we'll see what he can do with Rich Strike.
01:04:51I wish him the best of luck. I really did.
01:04:54Yeah. And Dawson said that he hopes to have the horse ready to run in Saratoga.
01:04:58Maybe the Whitney, perhaps the Jockey Club Gold Cup at a mile and a quarter would be more his cup of tea.
01:05:03Fusayichi Pegasus passed away this week, famous for winning the Kentucky Derby in 2000.
01:05:08Also famous for selling for back in the day before, you know, $4 million.
01:05:13It was really $4 million back then. Sold for $4 million at the Keeneland sale.
01:05:18It used to be held in July. I'm just trying to think that's probably about $10 million in today's dollars.
01:05:23And Randy, what are some of your memories of Foo Peg?
01:05:26Foo Peg. Well, I remember that Neil Drysdale did not like his horse being called Foo Peg.
01:05:31I know that. He thought that was a very undignified name for a Kentucky Derby winner.
01:05:36It was a fun time covering that horse because for many reasons,
01:05:41it was fun to hear Neil banter with the media.
01:05:45You know, Neil Drysdale was not one to really love the throngs of media that at the time,
01:05:51descended on the backstretch at Churchill Downs.
01:05:54And there would be some repartee between Drysdale and the media.
01:05:58You know, pity the media member who would come up to Drysdale and say something like,
01:06:03So Neil, your horse looked really good in the Wood Memorial.
01:06:07And then there would be silence and Drysdale would say, And your question is?
01:06:13But I was actually had a funny exchange with Drysdale.
01:06:18If you remember, before the Wood Memorial, the horse had all kinds of antics in the morning.
01:06:24TVG had him flipping on their work show to the ground, going to the ground one morning before the Kentucky Derby on the backstretch.
01:06:33The horse was just playful in Drysdale's words.
01:06:36Drysdale said he would be worried if the horse stopped doing things like that.
01:06:40But before the Wood Memorial, he froze in the walk to the starting gate and they couldn't get him going again.
01:06:47And he delayed the start. And finally, they got him going and they got him to the gate.
01:06:52So I'm kind of shooting the breeze a little bit with Jay Hovedy.
01:06:57And I said, Yeah, I wonder if Neil's concerned about about the crowd and about FUPEG with 150,000 people and all those people in the infield, you know, by freezing up again.
01:07:09And Jay said, Why don't you go ask him? And I said, Sure.
01:07:13And Jay said, Can I tag along? Yeah, no problem.
01:07:17So I went up to Neil and I posed that question.
01:07:21And Neil went, Hmm. So how far does he have to go from the finish line to the starting gate?
01:07:28And I said, About a quarter of a mile.
01:07:31How fast do you think the horse can run a quarter of a mile?
01:07:36I said, Well, easily 22 seconds. And how much time do I have to get him to the gate?
01:07:41I said, Well, you got nine or 10 minutes.
01:07:45He said, I think we'll be OK.
01:07:49But it was he was quite the worst. It was it was a flop as a stallion, though.
01:07:54He really was. The answer to a trivia question.
01:07:58I'll be floored if either of you two can get this trivia question.
01:08:02Name the horse, the American based horse that won more money than any son or daughter of Fusayuchi Pegasus.
01:08:09This is number one on the famous idea.
01:08:12International star. I didn't get a chance to guess.
01:08:17You wouldn't have guessed international star. Oh, yeah, for sure.
01:08:20I don't know. He did sign six champions.
01:08:23So in Japan or all over, all over.
01:08:28So that's Australia. I was actually there when he was sold.
01:08:33It was I looked it up because I know I was there the 21st of July, 1998.
01:08:39I was actually working the July sale. That was back when the July sale was fun at Keeneland.
01:08:44Everyone got dressed up. It was like going to Saratoga.
01:08:47And I was working. We all heard about this horse that was going to make all the money.
01:08:51So we got done. And it was when the old bar at Keeneland was just a regular old bar.
01:08:57You could take your dogs in there. And we all ran up to the grandstand and grabbed our beer and watch this horse.
01:09:02Because I wasn't there in the 80s when Snaffy Dancer sold for 13 million or what have you.
01:09:08Well, we ran up and watched himself. And I was galloping horses at Keeneland for Chris Specker.
01:09:14John Ward purchased the horse for Mr. Segaguchi and he broke him at Keeneland at his training center.
01:09:22I can remember seeing him. He was always a pain in the ass.
01:09:28He was a show horse guy that was the only one that could get on him for John Ward.
01:09:33This guy was about 200 pounds. And we would just see this one colt just rearing up constantly, constantly.
01:09:40And we're like, oh, is that the one they paid all the money for? Good luck with that one.
01:09:44The four million dollar yearling. And then he wound up going out to Neal Drysdale.
01:09:49And Andy Dernan used to get on him every day.
01:09:53Poor old Andy might have to go to the car for some liquid courage before he got on him every day after the break.
01:09:58Because if he wasn't rearing up, you don't know what he was doing.
01:10:02Every day he would rear up going to the track and Neal, it's OK, just give him a pet, Andy.
01:10:08Just give him a pet. And that was just what Fusayichi Pegasus did.
01:10:13Neal trained into the minute. Andy Dernan rode into the minute every single day.
01:10:18And Andy is a fabulous rider. He's still galloping to this day. One of the best riders you'll ever see on a horse.
01:10:23This fascinates me about genetics. Right. Fusayichi Pegasus spent more time on his two hind legs almost than he did on all four legs.
01:10:31Right. About eight or 10 years later, I'm somewhere on the backside and some horses, you know,
01:10:39walking around the barn and comes out, rears up on his hind legs and the trainer goes, damn, Fusayichi Pegasus.
01:10:46And I said, what do you mean? He said, it's a sire. They all do it.
01:10:51The only Fusayichi Pegasus I've seen loves to rear up on his hind legs. How weird is that?
01:10:57He was good at it. He barely ever toppled over. And Andy knew. He knew just how far he could take him.
01:11:06Well, far like the Fusayichi Pegasus. Yeah, absolutely.
01:11:11The next big TV workout of the week is Anyhoo. When I asked Sue Finley to get this work, she's like, who?
01:11:17I'm like, Anyhoo. Anyhoo. Anyhoo worked five furlongs on May the 28th for trainer John Sadler,
01:11:23in company with her stable mate Battle Coral, always going better than a company.
01:11:28She is a perfect two for two and did actually ship to Churchill Downs Derby Week to run.
01:11:33She got a temperature on the plane and was subsequently not entered.
01:11:37She is slated to run in Saturday's Summertime Oaks at her home base at Santa Anita.
01:11:42You better bet on her. She looks terrific. We'll be back after this message from XBTV.
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01:13:23That's a wrap for another edition of the TDN Writers Room.
01:13:26I want to thank my cohorts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman, the Green Group Guests of the Week, and my good friend, Dave Johnson.
01:13:32Our co-producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca, our editors, Aaliyah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:13:38And we had two mascots this week, Doodle and Lucy.
01:13:42So where'd they go?
01:13:43Lucy's producing pacing back here. She's hungry. She's on the rampage.
01:13:48All right, Lucy, we're almost done. Randy will feed you dinner in just a second.
01:13:52So anyways, thanks for viewing us. Thanks for listening.
01:13:55We'll talk to you next week here on the TDN Writers Room.