Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Well the Belmont Stakes is in the books and so is the 2023 Triple Crown and that's what
00:00:33we'll be talking about today on the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:36My name is Bill Finlay, I'm correspondent for the TDN, also co-host of the Down the
00:00:40Stretch Show with Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:42Hi, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports and the Buyer's Speed Figure team.
00:00:48Zoe Cabman here with First Racing and it looks like I've got a touch of bedhead going on.
00:00:52I literally, well I woke up hours ago but I have obviously not taken a shower yet so
00:00:57excuse the mop.
00:00:59I know you're jealous, Randy.
00:01:00Me too, I've got a little bedhead going on, on this side only, you probably can't tell.
00:01:05You're excused, Zoe.
00:01:07I want to remind you that the podcast is brought to you each and every week by our good friends
00:01:11at Keeneland.
00:01:12Okay, so the Belmont Stakes and Jenna Antonucci, who will be on a little bit later on the podcast
00:01:16as the Green Group Guest of the Week, was obviously the star of the show along with
00:01:20Archangelo.
00:01:21But anyways, guys, the reason why this is going to go down as the most popular of the
00:01:28three Triple Crown races, the ones I think we will, the one we will be remembering five
00:01:32years from now when we're still on the podcast talking about, which we will be doing, I promise
00:01:37you that, is because of the story.
00:01:40This is one of the things we'll talk to Jenna Antonucci about a little bit later.
00:01:43It's no secret that horse racing desperately needed a feel-good moment and boy did this
00:01:49horse and the trainer Jenna Antonucci provide it.
00:01:52$35,000 yearling trained by a female, trained by someone with a small barn, goes out and
00:01:57gets the job done.
00:01:59Not a lot lately have we had to smile about, Randy.
00:02:02Even on Belmont Day as well, there was a fatality.
00:02:05Let's not forget about that.
00:02:06It happened in the race after the Belmont Stakes.
00:02:08But wasn't it nice to actually have something to be happy about for a little while?
00:02:11Oh yeah, and as you said, we'll hear more from Jenna a little bit later.
00:02:15What a great ambassador for the sport she has turned out to be and the plethora of interviews
00:02:20that she's had to do over the last 72 hours.
00:02:23And the horse is cool himself, you know?
00:02:25I mean, he obviously wasn't as heralded as some of the other horses he was running against
00:02:31in the Belmont Stakes.
00:02:32But in watching the race on Saturday, as a fan, unusually for me, and as someone who
00:02:38put a pretty sizable bet on Tappet Trice, I was watching Tappet Trice.
00:02:43I was watching Angel of Empire.
00:02:44I was watching Hitch Show.
00:02:47Part of me was wondering why the heck they were being ridden from the four and a half
00:02:51furlong pole.
00:02:51But a little more on that later, maybe.
00:02:54And then I look over as they're literally under a drive with three-eighths of a mile
00:02:59to go.
00:02:59And I look down and there's this horse, Arcangelo, who's one off the rail, who's sitting there
00:03:05and Javier Castellano is just absolutely chilly and waiting while the other horses are being
00:03:10ridden along.
00:03:11And I thought, this race is over.
00:03:13I mean, this horse has clearly got way more left in the tank.
00:03:18And it's tempting to write it off in part as a trip thing, because he got through inside,
00:03:27turning for home out inside of National Treasure.
00:03:30But in watching the race over and over and making notes on it, Arcangelo would have won
00:03:34the race if he had sat and waited and came around National Treasure at the top of the
00:03:39stretch.
00:03:39It didn't matter that he got through along the inside.
00:03:41There was just so much more left in the tank.
00:03:44He was so much more responsive to Castellano, moved up a little bit, made a nice little
00:03:51surge midway, really early on the back stretch to get a good position when he steered him
00:03:56off the rail.
00:03:57He was just a better horse in the Belmont Stakes, at least on Saturday, than the other
00:04:03more celebrated horses he was running against.
00:04:06Yeah, guys, just an absolutely terrific outcome.
00:04:09This is the only outcome that horse racing needs at this very time, is Jenna Antonucci,
00:04:16Arcangelo, the horse they paid $35,000 for, Jenna, who won her first grade one race.
00:04:23The whole story of it, the plan that came together, she's always been targeting this
00:04:29race.
00:04:29They put up $50,000.
00:04:30He won the Peter Pan.
00:04:32You know, not just because I'm a woman, but it just gives everybody hope.
00:04:38This is what horse racing needs at this time when we continue to shoot ourselves in the
00:04:44foot.
00:04:44We continue to argue and bicker and point fingers.
00:04:49This is exactly what we need.
00:04:51We can't thank Jenna enough for getting on this national platform and not beating her
00:04:56own drum, but beating the drum for all of us.
00:05:00I think it's absolutely terrific.
00:05:03Another storyline, of course, was the jockey as well.
00:05:05Randy mentioned the trip that Arcangelo got.
00:05:08I do agree with you, Randy.
00:05:09I think the horse would have won under virtually any circumstances if he had gone around, but
00:05:15let's not de-emphasize or diminish the quality ride that Javier Castellano gave this horse.
00:05:22It was an absolutely perfect ride, cutting the corner, coming in on the inside.
00:05:26Jenna Antonucci, she says later on when we talked to her, she thought the rail was dead.
00:05:30I thought that was an interesting observation, not something that I saw.
00:05:34Here's another guy, a class act, who came into this year having never won the Derby
00:05:39or the Belmont.
00:05:40He hadn't won the Preakness.
00:05:42A guy who wasn't struggling, but it looked like he was at the tail end of his career,
00:05:48not getting the kind of mounts or winning the kind of races that he had maybe six or
00:05:52seven years ago.
00:05:53Now, he's the story among the jockeys, having won the Kentucky Derby and the Belmont and
00:05:58with an absolutely brilliant ride in the Belmont Stakes.
00:06:01It also brings up a very interesting possibility on Travers Day, Major Arcangelo are in the
00:06:06starting gate.
00:06:07Who's Javier riding?
00:06:08Your thoughts on Javier Castellano, Randy?
00:06:12What's the odds that this year you could have two Hall of Fame guys, I guess you could say
00:06:18in the twilight of their career.
00:06:20Certainly, that's the case for John Velasquez and it's sort of semi the case maybe for Javier
00:06:24Castellano in his mid-40s.
00:06:26Castellano having never won the Derby or the Belmont and Johnny Velasquez having never
00:06:30won the Preakness.
00:06:31All three of them had multiple opportunities to win all three races and it all gets taken
00:06:36care of in one triple crown sequence.
00:06:40The odds against that would have to be staggering and it's just another example of how when
00:06:49you get to that level, the very best jockeys in America, if they're given the right horses
00:06:54to ride, they get the job done and Castellano certainly did with Mage and also with Arcangelo.
00:07:00Good rides both.
00:07:01Wow.
00:07:02I didn't even think about that.
00:07:04That's a really cool statement.
00:07:06You only had to go a little bit into the rabbit hole to get that one, Randy.
00:07:11That's really cool.
00:07:11Johnny V and Javier, two of the classiest guys that you will find in the jocks room.
00:07:16Just ask their families and their wives and their kids.
00:07:20They're good guys and they are really, really easy to work for.
00:07:24He wins a race.
00:07:26Tap it thrice.
00:07:26I was with you, Randy.
00:07:27I'm on him.
00:07:28I'll never be on him again.
00:07:29He can win without me.
00:07:30That's the only time I was on him.
00:07:32I thought Forte ran a remarkable race to finish where he did.
00:07:37It just seems like the race is never quite long enough for him.
00:07:41Is that possible?
00:07:43I mean, it's like he only ever gets into gear at about the 316th pole, no matter how far
00:07:48you run him.
00:07:49He could run him six furlongs and I think it would be the same thing.
00:07:52I thought he ran terrifically.
00:07:54The top three really all ran well.
00:07:57Forte wasn't really like that earlier in his career, but the Florida Derby and the Kentucky
00:08:02Derby were almost identical in that he was in contention, especially in the Belmont stakes.
00:08:09He was only a couple of lengths off the pace in the first turn and early on the backstretch,
00:08:13and then suddenly he drops back.
00:08:16It looked like he was going to finish in the back half of the field as the horses reached
00:08:21the turn with about a half mile to run under a ride and going nowhere.
00:08:26And then just as he did in the Florida Derby, he picks it back up again and comes trudging
00:08:30along.
00:08:32I don't know why Luis Saez moved as early as he did on Tapitrice.
00:08:38Initially, I gave him the benefit of the doubt because that horse, once he gets going, you
00:08:43really don't want to get in his way.
00:08:45But at the 5.8 pole, at the 5.8 pole, Luis Saez slapped him on the shoulder.
00:08:51As I'm watching the head, I'm like, okay.
00:08:54And then when he moved outside of Angel of Empire at the 4.5 pole, Flobby and Pratt on
00:09:01Angel of Empire looks outside and sees Tapitrice on the engine and says, well, I guess I got
00:09:04to go.
00:09:05And both horses were being ridden with more than a half mile left in the race.
00:09:11And then hit show went.
00:09:13And suddenly all these guys are acting like they got a flight to catch.
00:09:16And you look down and here's Javier Castellanos sitting on the inside, just as chilly and
00:09:20just as patient as he can be and all the horse in the world.
00:09:23And this race is over, you know.
00:09:26And that's exactly what happened.
00:09:27Tapitrice did his thing, broke slowly from the gate, was rushed up.
00:09:33I guess that's just going to be him.
00:09:35And I'm with you, Zoe.
00:09:37I've lost my last dollar on Tapitrice.
00:09:39All right.
00:09:40Let me throw a little cold water on this love affair with Forte that you guys have going
00:09:44on.
00:09:44Sure, he ran fine.
00:09:45But if Todd Pletcher was not using the 10-week layoff and the bruised foot in the Kentucky
00:09:50Derby as an excuse beforehand, you don't get to use it afterwards.
00:09:54He's a good horse.
00:09:56This thing where he does, where he looks like he's idling and then punches in a little bit
00:10:00last eighth of a mile.
00:10:01Well, he's got to overcome that.
00:10:03And it doesn't look like he has.
00:10:05I just think he wasn't good enough on this day.
00:10:08And I still wonder how well he's made that transition from two to three.
00:10:12I mean, he's far from a bum.
00:10:13I mean, he's won the Florida Derby, Fountain of Youth, and not second in the Belmont.
00:10:16But I think it's fair to say that he hasn't quite lived up to expectations.
00:10:20Tapitrice, if he can't win the Belmont, the race that was tailor-made for him with everything
00:10:27we talked about with his breeding, his running style, the trainer who excels in the Belmont.
00:10:31Another one, he's a very good horse.
00:10:34But is he a star?
00:10:37No.
00:10:38Is he one of the two or three best three-year-olds?
00:10:40Probably not.
00:10:41But I want to grab that conversation.
00:10:45Now we look forward, obviously, to the Haskell Travers, Pennsylvania Derby, Breeders' Cup
00:10:49Classic.
00:10:50The three-year-old championship is completely wide open.
00:10:52Everybody's won one race.
00:10:55Randy, who would you expect would be the best horse among this crop going forward?
00:11:02I don't have a firm answer to that myself.
00:11:04I think Arcangelo has as good a chance as anybody to be the answer to that question.
00:11:10I would say choice A or choice B.
00:11:15Arabian Knight or Arabian Lion would be the two that I think would be the horses to watch
00:11:24for the second half of the year.
00:11:26Zoe would know much more about this than me, but I've heard nothing but rave reviews about
00:11:31the way Arabian Knight has been training in California.
00:11:34He apparently is Bob's first choice for the Haskell.
00:11:39And then Arabian Lion, I mean, I think if Arabian Lion had been entered in the Preakness,
00:11:44and I understand why he wasn't, but if he had been entered in the Preakness, he would
00:11:48have won the Preakness.
00:11:50And he ran faster on Belmont Day than any of the three-year-olds did.
00:11:55Albeit it was at seven furlongs.
00:11:57But still, I mean, Arabian Lion is really clicking on all cylinders now.
00:12:02So I think it's a pretty strong one-two punch for Bob Baffert heading into the second half
00:12:07of the year.
00:12:08And I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of those two horses wind up being three-year-old
00:12:11champion when all is said and done.
00:12:14I agree with you completely.
00:12:16And yes, Arabian Knight is going towards the Haskell.
00:12:19We'll take a little look at him in XBTV's Work of the Week a little bit later on.
00:12:26Bob confirmed by text yesterday that he is, in fact, going to the Haskell if Arabian Lion
00:12:31doesn't make it.
00:12:32I mean, they're two very good horses.
00:12:33And I get confused.
00:12:35So Bob just says he just calls them Knight and Lion, because otherwise it's just too
00:12:40confusing.
00:12:41So I'm just going to stay with that because I keep muddling them up.
00:12:44But they're good.
00:12:45Very good.
00:12:46So guys, let's get away a little bit from this year's Belmont Stakes and talk about
00:12:50something we addressed with David O'Rourke last week.
00:12:53And where the 2025 Belmont Stakes may be run.
00:12:58He said Saratoga was a possibility.
00:13:00Now the Naira's come out with even stronger statements that they are looking to perhaps
00:13:06run the race there in 2025.
00:13:07I think that would be the coolest thing in the world.
00:13:09I once thought, though, that nobody's brought up the distance of the race.
00:13:14I think it should be run at a mile and a quarter.
00:13:17You run a mile and a half race at Saratoga, you start on the turn.
00:13:19How are you going to do that?
00:13:21And there is precedent.
00:13:22The COVID Belmont was run at a mile and an eighth.
00:13:25So anyways, that's a fascinating topic.
00:13:29Boy, to see a Triple Crown race run at Saratoga would be really off the charts.
00:13:33Yeah, I'm more concerned about when it's going to be run than where it's going to be run.
00:13:39Because we've talked about ad nauseum.
00:13:42This Triple Crown is just another example of how the spacing needs to be changed.
00:13:48So maybe that'll be the impetus for the move to space these races out if you run the Belmont
00:13:56at Saratoga.
00:13:57Maybe that'll be the first step toward that process.
00:14:00I don't know.
00:14:01I'm not holding my breath.
00:14:01I know that much.
00:14:03It would be terrific if it was run at Saratoga.
00:14:05That would be awesome.
00:14:06I could spend three months there instead of two.
00:14:09Great.
00:14:11I want to remind you, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:14:15John Ebert of Blue Rose Farm.
00:14:17We'll hear from Jenna Antonucci a little bit later on.
00:14:20They purchased Archangelo for $35,000 at Keeneland's 2021 September Yearling Sale.
00:14:27And he won the 155th running of the Belmont Stakes,
00:14:30making Jenna Antonucci the first woman to train a Belmont winner.
00:14:36Keeneland is home of the World Yearling Sale.
00:14:39The energy, magic, and momentum of the September Yearling Sale returns September 11th
00:14:45through the 23rd.
00:14:46Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:14:49We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:14:55If this place could talk,
00:15:00it would roar.
00:15:02It would say, this is a racing.
00:15:06This beating heart in the heart of horse country.
00:15:11Steady and strong beneath the roar.
00:15:14Reminding us why.
00:15:17For the love of the horse.
00:15:19For generations to come.
00:15:23Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate-to-wire win in the Florida Derby.
00:15:28Champion three-year-old.
00:15:30Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:15:3611 triple-digit bias.
00:15:38Maximum Security, he smoked them in the cigar mile.
00:15:42Grade one winning four-year-old.
00:15:44Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:15:48Secure your mare's future.
00:15:51Maximum Security.
00:15:53The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:15:56On Bahamont Stakes Day, the day that turned Justify into a superstar,
00:16:01Arabian Lion gave Justify his first grade one winner in the Woody Stevens Stakes.
00:16:06And that was from his first crop of three-year-olds.
00:16:09Arabian Lion ran a 1.09 bias speed figure, the fastest of any three-year-old this year.
00:16:16Meanwhile, also on Saturday right here at the Great Race Place,
00:16:20Adair Manor won her third of graded stakes with a decisive win
00:16:24in Santa Anita's Santa Margarita Stakes for her sire, Uncle Mo.
00:16:29But they weren't the only Coolmore sires to have a big race weekend.
00:16:33Munnings had a Belmont Stakes weekend double when Closing Act took the Astoria Stakes,
00:16:39and Elle Street Lady won the Jersey Girl.
00:16:42On this week's edition of First Things First,
00:16:44I caught up with the Chosen Vron, who's in the midst of a seven-race win streak.
00:16:56And they're off.
00:16:58And here comes the Chosen Vron, just ambling up to the top pair.
00:17:03And the Chosen Vron, cruise control, comes to get the lead at the top of the stretch.
00:17:10But what a performance from the Chosen Vron, one of the best cowbreds we've seen in years.
00:17:17The Chosen Vron, an absolute thrashing in the Thor's Echo.
00:17:23Myself and Doodle are off to find the Chosen Vron, who may be,
00:17:27quite simply, the best cowbred of all time.
00:17:30And if he's not the best of all time, he most certainly is the best of his time.
00:17:36Here he is, the little engine that could.
00:17:39He's looking at Doodle.
00:17:45Had a little bit of downtime with him when he was three.
00:17:48But basically, he's just got a heart of gold and he's tough to beat.
00:17:53He just knows where the wire is and he wants to get there.
00:17:55And everybody that rides him loves him.
00:17:59And is this one of your favorite horses?
00:18:01This is my favorite horse.
00:18:04Is he easy to gallop, Jacob?
00:18:06He's pretty, pretty, pretty tough guy.
00:18:09But, you know, I don't give you no intentions to get tough.
00:18:12But he's honest, honest guy.
00:18:14You know, he don't, he's not that tough, but he can pull tough, you know.
00:18:20What do you think about his races?
00:18:21Because he's pretty game, huh?
00:18:23You know what?
00:18:26Honestly, what these guys make me do every day, it works for him real good, you know.
00:18:35Eric's put me to work.
00:18:47Apparently, I can still walk a horse.
00:18:49Eric, you owe me 20 bucks.
00:18:5120 bucks here.
00:18:53Things I do for a living.
00:18:56Racing continues this weekend at Santa Anita, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
00:19:08It's closing weekend as we celebrate Father's Day on Sunday.
00:19:12We will have a special 12 o'clock post, a mandatory payout in the pick six.
00:19:17Do come and join us for our signature race.
00:19:19We'll have the possibly perfect and the one and only San Juan Capistrano.
00:19:24So we talked earlier in the podcast about what a feel good story and Jenna Antonucci
00:19:30and Archangelo were, and there was another pretty darn good story again on Met Mile Day
00:19:36slash Belmont Stakes Day.
00:19:38That just wonderful card that the New York Race Association put together, including sixth grade
00:19:43one races of the undercard.
00:19:45Clearly, the Met Mile was the highlight of the afternoon for a number of reasons.
00:19:49I mean, we've known the Cody Dorman story before.
00:19:52I've got a lot of publicity, including on the Breeders' Cup show and which Randy was
00:19:56a part of on NBC.
00:19:58But, you know, such a cool thing to see this horse win and the story of the young man with
00:20:03the born with the handicaps.
00:20:06But let's look at the racing aspect of it.
00:20:09This is the best horse in the country.
00:20:10I don't I'll see if I don't think either one of you want to disagree with me.
00:20:14I'll be willing to hear what you have to say.
00:20:17But, you know, he's just going out there and getting the job done every single time out.
00:20:22And this time he didn't have things go his own way.
00:20:25He broke slowly.
00:20:26He was last early, and it was not at all a problem as he got the job done quite comfortably
00:20:33for trainer Bill Mata and Junior Alvarado.
00:20:35And one of the things that I thought that was the story after the race, Mata says the
00:20:40Whitney is a possibility, and that would be really exciting.
00:20:45He's kept this horse generally at a mile or shorter, and he's had all the success.
00:20:49But, you know, could he go a mile?
00:20:51Why not?
00:20:52I really hope they go in that race and, you know, see what that would lead to if he wins
00:20:55the Whitney.
00:20:56But, Randy, again, a very good horse on a roll.
00:21:01The other option they would have would be to go back in and run in the forego and try
00:21:06to win it again for the second straight year.
00:21:07But Mata already has Judd Mott's elite power who won the True North on Friday pointing
00:21:13for the forego.
00:21:14So why not take this horse and run him in the Whitney?
00:21:17You said he's got two chances around two turns in his career.
00:21:20His second lifetime start, he ran a mile and an eighth.
00:21:23And if you go back and watch the video of that race, he had no idea what he was doing.
00:21:27He was totally green.
00:21:28He was rank.
00:21:29He broke slowly like he's done a lot of times in his career.
00:21:33He just wasn't a polished racehorse.
00:21:34And then the second loss was in the Challenger at Tampa Bay.
00:21:37It's the only race he's lost in his last 10 starts.
00:21:40He was beaten by only a neck.
00:21:41But that was really before Cody's wish began his ascent to become the kind of horse he
00:21:48is right now.
00:21:48You look at his pedigree.
00:21:50He's by curling out of a tappet mare.
00:21:53That's the two biggest stamina influences in American thoroughbred racing right now.
00:21:57Why would this horse not be able to handle a distance of ground?
00:22:00And certainly his running style would lead you to believe that extra distance would be
00:22:05no problem whatsoever.
00:22:06So Zoe, I'm like, Bill, I really look forward to seeing this horse run in the Whitney if
00:22:10that's what happens.
00:22:11Randy, don't forget he won the Breeders' Cup dirt mile around two turns.
00:22:14Well, that's true.
00:22:15That was a two-turn race and not a one-turn race.
00:22:18You're right.
00:22:18So that's further evidence about why they should stretch him out.
00:22:22Hey, he could be the next flight line.
00:22:24It's a terrific story.
00:22:26He's a terrific horse.
00:22:28The thing that really interested me from listening to Bill's comments was that he said he loves
00:22:34to run the turn.
00:22:35And that is evident when you watch him run.
00:22:38Not many horses can sustain that big sweeping move that he has around the turn.
00:22:42Some horses love bull rings because they love to run the turns.
00:22:45He loves to run the turn.
00:22:46And that is why he's been so absolutely devastatingly brilliant around one turn.
00:22:52Now, when he goes back to two turns, obviously, he's got two turns to run around.
00:22:57So why wouldn't it be better?
00:22:58Well, I don't know.
00:22:59I mean, he was pretty darn good in the Breeders' Cup dirt mile.
00:23:03Terrific.
00:23:04I mean, he is, for me, the next flight line.
00:23:08And we get a chance to see a whole lot more of him than we did a flight line.
00:23:13High praise from Zoe Cabman about the Met Mile winner, Cody Swish.
00:23:17So we don't have time, but we could spend five hours on this podcast going over all
00:23:21the other races of the car.
00:23:22So I'm going to cut a little bit short and just ask, I think each of us will weigh in
00:23:26with what was our highlight of the day.
00:23:29And mine was the Pennsylvania bred Caravelle.
00:23:31Congratulations to the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:23:35Dead heated for fourth in the Belmont.
00:23:36Didn't run badly, but didn't get into the winner's circle.
00:23:39But Caravelle, the other big name Pennsylvania bred out there right now.
00:23:43I didn't think she had a prayer to beat Casa Creed.
00:23:46I loved Casa Creed in this race.
00:23:49Absolutely.
00:23:50Trying to win the race for the third straight year.
00:23:53I thought Caravelle was going to be a little bit caught up in a possible speed duel.
00:23:57I didn't think that six furlongs was her best distance.
00:24:01I thought she was more than that.
00:24:02You're shaking your head.
00:24:03So I'm just being honest that five and a half furlongs was her perfect distance.
00:24:07And boy, did she prove me wrong.
00:24:09She is so cool.
00:24:10And who doesn't like a filly who has raced in her last four starts, three of them have
00:24:18been against males, and she's won all three of them in this niche category of turf sprints.
00:24:25She obviously has no equal.
00:24:27And I'm sure Brad Cox will plot a course that will lead her to the Breeders Cup and a possible
00:24:33repeat of that.
00:24:33So I have a question for you.
00:24:35Do we know yet?
00:24:36Will the Breeders Cup turf sprint be six and a half down the hill at Santa Anita, or will
00:24:40it be run on what they call the flat course?
00:24:42Do we know, Randy?
00:24:44I have a feeling it's...
00:24:45I have a feeling that's already been decided.
00:24:47I don't know what it is off the top of my head.
00:24:49I'd be shocked if it was six and a half down the hill.
00:24:53I would expect it to be run like probably five and a half furlongs on the flat, which
00:24:59they've been running for the last couple of years now.
00:25:01Yeah, that's what I think it's going to be.
00:25:03And Bill, it was a foreshadowing.
00:25:05The girl beating the boys.
00:25:07There you go.
00:25:08That was basically the foreshadowing of Belmont Stakes Day.
00:25:11It was all about the girls.
00:25:12Finally, unlike this podcast, it's ladies first.
00:25:20All right.
00:25:20I wanted to mention Clariere, talking about the ladies.
00:25:24Terrific.
00:25:25It's so cool to see her running this year when they could have easily retired her.
00:25:30She could have been a broodmare already, and it's giving us something to follow.
00:25:35She was absolutely phenomenal.
00:25:37As for Secret Oath, she didn't fire her best racers.
00:25:40They're always at the beginning of the year.
00:25:41She can't seem to keep up with the workload, so to speak.
00:25:46But Clariere in the Ogden FIPS was just terrific.
00:25:50Yeah.
00:25:50I mean, three cheers to Barbara Bankey for keeping Clariere going.
00:25:56You could say the same thing to Peter Brandt about Peter Brandt.
00:26:00And in Italian, who won the Just a Game on Friday.
00:26:03They're both five years old.
00:26:04You can say the same thing about Godolphin and Cody's Wish.
00:26:07A lot of outfits would have retired Cody's Wish to stud after winning the Breeders' Cup
00:26:11Dirt Mile last year, but they thought they had more to gain by keeping him going.
00:26:15A lot to choose from here.
00:26:17I thought Clariere overcame a slow pace and really, really ran well to win to beat search results.
00:26:25I'll go with Up to the Mark in the Manhattan.
00:26:27I think he is the best turf horse in America.
00:26:31He was good at a mile and a mile and a sixteenth.
00:26:34I think he was better at a mile and an eighth at Churchill Downs.
00:26:38And I think he's even better at a mile and a quarter at Belmont Park in the Manhattan.
00:26:43So it looks to me like the way this horse runs is running style.
00:26:47He finished the Manhattan his last quarter in 23 and one going a mile and a quarter,
00:26:52which is outstanding.
00:26:54I think he's more of a mile and a half Breeders' Cup turf prospect going forward
00:27:02than he would be a one mile prospect going the other direction.
00:27:07But I think he's just a really, really nice horse who is running exceptionally well right now.
00:27:16The TDN Rider's Room is also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:27:21We've talked a lot the last few weeks about Angel of Empire, Pennsylvania bred.
00:27:25Why was he so close to the pace in the Belmont Stakes?
00:27:27I have no idea.
00:27:28But Caravelle, as Bill just pointed out, also a Pennsylvania bred.
00:27:31And when we talk about Caravelle, one thing that we haven't really touched on yet is the
00:27:36fact that she was rerouted.
00:27:38Remember, initially, after winning at Churchill Downs, the plan, the erstwhile plan,
00:27:43was to send her to England to run in the King's Stand Stakes Royal Escort.
00:27:48Brad Cox called an audible, thought she'd be better off staying in the United States
00:27:52for the JIPER.
00:27:53And boy, what a big win she had here.
00:27:55So she is now on course, especially since the JIPER was a win in your end.
00:28:00She would have been on course anyway, though, for a repeat, for a chance at a repeat,
00:28:05of course, in the Breeders' Cup turf sprint November 4th at Santa Anita.
00:28:09We'll be right back after this message from the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association.
00:28:14The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
00:28:18Six races for PA sired, PA bred two-year-olds at parks.
00:28:22Two $100,000 contests at 5 1⁄2 furlongs on August 21st, PA Day at the Races.
00:28:29September 23rd, PA Derby Day, as two races at 6 1⁄2 furlongs, both with a $150,000 purse.
00:28:37And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
00:28:41For more, go to pabred.com.
00:28:44Since the Belmont Stakes undercard Friday and Saturday, it was almost like a mini Breeders' Cup.
00:28:50It's no surprise that the fastest horse of the week came out of that weekend at Belmont Park.
00:28:55Which horse was it?
00:28:56We'll get to that in just a minute.
00:28:58Remember, fastest horse of the week is brought to you by the fast stallions at Windstar Farms,
00:29:02such as Global Campaign.
00:29:05His sire, Kerlin, won the Woodward at age four.
00:29:08So did Global Campaign, going wire to wire and earning a 104-buyer speed figure.
00:29:13He also ran the second-fastest mile and an eighth ever in the Peter Pan Stakes,
00:29:18earning a big speed figure with a mile and an eighth and 146.71.
00:29:22He won six of his ten starts, three graded stakes, four triple-digit buyers.
00:29:26And also, don't forget, there's some pedigree there.
00:29:28He is a half-brother for last year's leading first crop sire, Bolt Dorough.
00:29:34Global Campaign's first yearlings will sell this summer.
00:29:38Now back to that fastest horse.
00:29:40No surprise, it's Cody's Wish.
00:29:42We've talked about him and what he did in the Metropolitan Handicap, the Met Mile.
00:29:47He also earned a buyer speed figure of 112 in that race, the fastest buyer of his career.
00:29:54So Cody's Wish not only continues to win from a speed figure perspective,
00:29:58he is going up and up and up.
00:30:01The TD and Writers Room is brought to you by The Green Group, a tax accounting and advisory firm
00:30:06specializing in the thoroughbred industry and especially specializing in saving you money on taxes.
00:30:15Welcome in now, The Green Group guests of the week.
00:30:17No surprise here.
00:30:18It's who else but Jenna Antonucci, who's coming off that very memorable and historic win in the Belmont Stakes.
00:30:24Jenna, thanks for joining us.
00:30:26My first question is this.
00:30:28This race has become such a big deal for a lot of reasons, and I think one of the main reasons is
00:30:35because at a time when horse racing was having so many problems,
00:30:39this was a feel-good story that put a smile on everybody's face.
00:30:44And boy, did horse racing need that.
00:30:46Has that resonated with you?
00:30:48And what do you think about that?
00:30:50Thanks, Bill, for having me.
00:30:51It's resonating more afterwards from probably a different point of view than might be initially thought.
00:31:01From trainers that you're cordial with and you say hi to, and everything's in passing at the speed
00:31:07of which our industry goes, reaching out and just having nice and supportive, positive things to say.
00:31:15We often get a pretty bad wrath for not coming together as an industry or working together
00:31:21and having that camaraderie.
00:31:22So from that point of view, I hear them.
00:31:25I'm appreciative of them.
00:31:27And it's having the respect of your peers is, I think it's nice and it's important in what we do
00:31:33to work forward in our industry and to work together.
00:31:36And meeting some random people, we literally went to Krispy Kreme this morning.
00:31:41Yes, they were hot now.
00:31:44It was just meant to be.
00:31:45So randomly, a couple of ladies were in there and my best friend was getting something modified
00:31:52in her coffee.
00:31:52And it just kind of the conversation just happened.
00:31:56And they were like, you're her.
00:32:00You're the one that, oh, my God.
00:32:01And they were literally from Sweden in New York City and were starting to cry.
00:32:07I'm like, please don't cry.
00:32:08Please don't cry.
00:32:08Please don't cry.
00:32:09So from that point of view, it's crazy, honestly.
00:32:15And I'm so profoundly grateful and appreciative of, A, this horse and just to be able to steward
00:32:23him and to literally be on his tail strings on all this is amazing.
00:32:31So we understand that in the wake of the Belmont, Jenna, you've actually had to get somebody to
00:32:35sort of be your press agent to deal with all the requests.
00:32:39What has your life been like the last 72 hours?
00:32:42Honestly, Randy, I'm just trying not to screw up.
00:32:45And so I know there's obviously we have a business to run.
00:32:50It doesn't stop running.
00:32:51And I don't want to lose focus of making sure paying attention to the details of the horses
00:32:55that are in our care currently.
00:32:57And so leaning into the NTRA and Tom Rooney and Megan has been paramount.
00:33:05Tiana, who happens to be my sister-in-law and has always done all of our social media
00:33:10and our website stuff, I just felt it was smart to take that half a step back and say,
00:33:16listen, I'm going to need help with some of this stuff, because if we are as an industry,
00:33:22given a little platform to to talk about what we're doing and to talk about how we're trying
00:33:27to do things better and and this inspires some people to do better in and out of our
00:33:34industry, then I just I'm trying and I'm trying to just not screw it up.
00:33:39Jenna, you seem to have been just about everywhere.
00:33:43I don't really follow Fox News.
00:33:45You're on Fox News.
00:33:46You're you're all over the place.
00:33:48And you basically been an inspiration to people who may not have ever even heard of Jenna
00:33:54Antonucci, not heard of the Belmont Stakes.
00:33:56But I want to ask you, in the heat of the moment, you gave one of the best quotes I
00:34:01think anyone could ever give in the heat of the moment.
00:34:05If you can't find a seat at the table, find your own table.
00:34:09How did you come up with that after your horse just won the Belmont Stakes?
00:34:13How did you have the wherewithal to even think clear enough to say that?
00:34:18Did it just come to you naturally?
00:34:20You know, it's you eat a lot of poo when you're building in this industry.
00:34:24And, you know, you take it on the chin and and and that's not a complaint, you know,
00:34:31by any stretch.
00:34:32I'm quite fine taking some of those on the chin.
00:34:35And there have been plenty of opportunities that you yearn for.
00:34:39And again, not just in this industry.
00:34:40I think that's I think the reason it's resonating is because it is across life where you you
00:34:47see things through an optic, you see things through a point of view, you you assume what
00:34:53those things may be that you are absorbing.
00:34:55And sure, there have been opportunities that I have wanted or that I have been asking for
00:35:01that the answers were no.
00:35:02And no is two letters.
00:35:03It doesn't define where you're going and what you're doing.
00:35:07It's a no right now, but it may be a yes later.
00:35:09So handle yourself appropriately.
00:35:12But if you're not happy with what's happening in your space, don't be a victim to that.
00:35:17And it's up to you to take ownership of that and to pivot.
00:35:20And so I think in the in the that moment, you know, it just metaphorically just literally
00:35:29wasn't scripted by any means.
00:35:30I wish I was that smart to do those kind of things.
00:35:33But, you know, I'm such a stay in the moment person because the disappointment can be so
00:35:38profound and extreme in our industry.
00:35:40And you think you're going to hopefully do this and that.
00:35:42And then you you get there mentally a little bit.
00:35:45And then all of a sudden you're like, that didn't happen.
00:35:47And I'll attribute golf.
00:35:49I played a lot of golf before.
00:35:51And you really have to stay present and in the moment for, you know, your your cadence
00:35:57and your rhythm and your heartbeat and all those kinds of things.
00:35:59So I think it just kind of happened, Zoe, because it was just a it's true.
00:36:04And it resonates with me.
00:36:06And I've worked really hard over these last several years to make our own table and to
00:36:11work with people that I enjoy, not just in my team, but other part and other owners and
00:36:17the people that we have that have believed in me and have believed in us and what we
00:36:22do and putting good people around us and being OK to say no, that we're all kind of
00:36:30rowing in the same direction.
00:36:33And so I think that's the root of it all.
00:36:35And also part of it is in that moment, yes, there was a little bit of vindication, you
00:36:41know, where we did it.
00:36:42Our team did it.
00:36:44When you're told for so long, you can't have this and you can't have that.
00:36:47No, it's not your time.
00:36:49And sit over there and get out of the way.
00:36:51And so just in that moment, it's like, no, here's our table.
00:36:54We are not getting out of the way.
00:36:56Jen, I imagine one of the goals now is that you have horses of this caliber come into
00:37:01your barn fairly regularly.
00:37:02I mean, you might not get a grade one Belmont Stakes winner every year, but you want to
00:37:07move on, I would imagine, deal with good horses.
00:37:10What has this done for your career?
00:37:12What do you hope it will do for your career?
00:37:15Bill, my focus is to deal with good people and with dealing with good people, good things
00:37:21will happen.
00:37:22And our focus will never change with that.
00:37:24Horses, we're going to do our best to steward the best possible outcomes for the horses
00:37:29that come in our hands.
00:37:30That's always been a core foundation of who I am as a person.
00:37:34I've said it from day one.
00:37:35I'll never train a million horses, but any horse that comes to our hands, we're going
00:37:38to do our absolute best to responsible decisions and steward the best possible outcomes we
00:37:44can, no matter what those outcomes are.
00:37:46And so my focus will be to continue to surround myself and our team with good people so that
00:37:53we are having fun and we are enjoying this experience and we are doing our best to show
00:37:57the best in horse racing.
00:37:59I just wish I could get my golf game going to where it's just a fraction as successful
00:38:03as you winning the Belmont Stakes.
00:38:06From what I understand, from what I've read in the not so distant past, you were training
00:38:11retired thoroughbreds for a new career in the hunter-jumper business and such.
00:38:17How and maybe more importantly, why did you go from that to being a full-time trainer
00:38:24of thoroughbred racehorses?
00:38:27Because I must be a little bit insane.
00:38:29There was the perception of the lack of politics in racing.
00:38:35I can honestly say at this point, I definitely over-sent that idea a little bit.
00:38:42But what I will say is on the racetrack, there is no politics when they're running.
00:38:49And when those horses are giving you everything, that is pure.
00:38:53And that is amazing for me.
00:38:56But my initial drive for that, Randy, was just I wanted to better retrain thoroughbreds
00:39:03for their next careers.
00:39:04I wanted to understand the breaking and training process.
00:39:07Why when we were asking them to go left, they wanted to go right?
00:39:10Why when I was asking for a lead change, they thought my leg was a fly on their side?
00:39:15Just some of the random little nuances that are so important for when they go on to become
00:39:21a show horse or a pleasure horse.
00:39:23They have to re-assimilate and they have to find a new normal.
00:39:26And so I was hungry for that knowledge and that experience so that I could help them
00:39:31transition more quickly.
00:39:33And not have those hiccups of not understanding why and what.
00:39:39And I just honestly got bit by the speed and the adrenaline and the sheer athleticism and
00:39:44who they are.
00:39:45And they're just so smart that it was like, oh, this is kind of OK.
00:39:50I think I like this a lot.
00:39:52Jenna, can you explain to me your approach a little bit more?
00:39:56Horse forward, horseology, your farm in Ocala, and some of your team that helps you.
00:40:02Because I know Fiona Goodwin and Katie Miranda are a big part of this.
00:40:06They are.
00:40:07And I think everyone's kind of learning what horse forward means.
00:40:11I'm not a race chaser.
00:40:13Yes, there's condition books and there's stakes and those are goals.
00:40:16And we're going to back into those.
00:40:18We're going to set reschedules based around them.
00:40:20But if we're going to miss them, we're going to miss them.
00:40:22And hopefully we're not missing the big stage.
00:40:24And we didn't miss it this week.
00:40:26So it's very much slow down a minute and listen to the horse.
00:40:31Look at their eye, read them, listen to their body language.
00:40:34As you know, Zoe, they never stop talking.
00:40:36They're so chatty.
00:40:37There's so much personality.
00:40:39If we're missing something in a personality, if something isn't coming out where the horse
00:40:43is just nonstop chattering at you, why?
00:40:47What are we missing?
00:40:47What can we do?
00:40:50Are we missing anything soundness wise?
00:40:51Do we need to find a chiropractor for this fella?
00:40:54Is there something that's just not right with this one?
00:40:57And so that's really the foundation and the core is to join with these horses and teach
00:41:03these horses and let them find their full personality.
00:41:06And we feel strongly that if you're allowing that to happen, then whatever level they're
00:41:11going to be, you're going to maximize.
00:41:14And it may be that 12 claimer and it may be a grade one horse, but if they're a happy
00:41:18horse, they're going to give you everything they have.
00:41:20Jen, I think your second best quote during all this is there is no politics when they
00:41:24are running.
00:41:25You're good at this.
00:41:27I'm coming up with really germane statements for capturing the moment.
00:41:32Let's talk a little bit more about the horse.
00:41:35One of the other things that made it a little guy does well story is the yearling price,
00:41:40$35,000.
00:41:41You're facing off against a horse cost $1.3 million in Tappet price.
00:41:46Not at all unusual to see the seven figure horses in there.
00:41:49How involved were you in the purchase of him and what was the story that he sold for so
00:41:53little at the sales?
00:41:54I was not involved.
00:41:56John Ebert did the buying of his horse.
00:42:01He's a guy that just kind of flutters around the sale and in obscurity, likely not going
00:42:06to be so obscure now.
00:42:07But he, I laugh at horses that we have from all quite quirky.
00:42:11They all have a different personality and it became a saying of like, oh no, what has
00:42:16he found now?
00:42:17And what kind of, you know, quirkiness are we going to have to deal with?
00:42:20So I just think, Bill, that it was at a time where Aragate was still alive.
00:42:25I think I have that, that fact, right?
00:42:27And it was, shall we dare say the hump year, nothing had started running yet.
00:42:32No one knew, no one knew we wouldn't have him anymore.
00:42:35And he was the sum of a lot of parts.
00:42:37He initially went to Clovis Crane for the first couple of months before coming down
00:42:40to us.
00:42:41And he just was a big kid, you know, that unbridled song, you know, thread that comes
00:42:47through there.
00:42:47He has a little bit of a lighter build, shall I say, just with a little bit more refinement
00:42:52and how he carries himself across the racetrack where Aragate was a bit heavier of a horse
00:42:57and hit the ground a little bit harder when he ran.
00:43:00So I think from that regard, it's a huge asset to this horse that he has some of that
00:43:05Aragate brilliance and that speed.
00:43:08And obviously the stamina aspect coming through the tappet and the unbridled side, unbridled
00:43:13song side.
00:43:14So in doing my Genta Antonucci research, I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong.
00:43:22There was only one other time in your career where you have trained a horse to run a mile
00:43:27and a half or further on dirt.
00:43:30It was in the Birdstone Stakes back in 2014, a long time ago.
00:43:36So when you're getting this horse ready to run a mile and a half coming off the Peter
00:43:39Pan, is the cake basically baked at that point, so to speak?
00:43:45I mean, he didn't breeze again for 18 days after the Peter Pan, which is pretty normal.
00:43:50What did you do or anything you really could do to get this horse up to the mile and a
00:43:55half performance or was all the work already done?
00:43:58I think at this point, you're not going to put an extra half a mile of fitness underneath
00:44:05a horse.
00:44:06That's just not going to happen.
00:44:08I'm not training jump horses and steeplechase horses, and we're not going to go out and
00:44:13gallop three miles a day.
00:44:15I don't think when you're going a mile and a half, you want that kind of training under
00:44:19a horse.
00:44:19You still need that rapid fire, short muscle to work.
00:44:26The turn of foot that he shows is in him.
00:44:29So I do think as fit as they are, he ran a mile and an eighth well.
00:44:34He overcame a pace in their well.
00:44:37He galloped out big as well.
00:44:40We increased our daily gallop a little bit.
00:44:43And again, horses only have a certain amount of mileage in them, just like a car.
00:44:47And so we have such a big foundation already in place with him.
00:44:52It was just making sure we had just that little bit more.
00:44:55So I probably wanted to make sure we maybe had a 16th more in him or an eighth more in
00:45:00him.
00:45:00And that was why we designed our breeze the way that we did.
00:45:03And we did our what ended up being a timed open gallop for him a few days prior, which
00:45:09just as a lung opener for him and him just finding his cadence.
00:45:14And that was literally the last thing that I told Javier.
00:45:17You know, it's and we talked about it the day before.
00:45:19It's just find a rhythm with him.
00:45:20And I do think there's an element when you're going that far that a horse wants it or not.
00:45:25Yes, the fitness clearly has to be there, obviously.
00:45:29But there's a desire and a want at that point because they are all fatiguing at that point.
00:45:33No matter how fit they are.
00:45:35And so for us, it wasn't a huge pivot and a shift for him.
00:45:39It may have just been fine tuning a couple of things for him.
00:45:43Jenna, was was there a concern?
00:45:45Because wasn't one of his final breezes kind of unplanned?
00:45:49He was supposed to just let me just whiz around there.
00:45:53How did you feel?
00:45:54The media ran with that one.
00:45:56We thought it was hilarious and how they were interpreting it.
00:45:59If you look at Robert in the picture that was taken that day,
00:46:03we totally busted his chops about it because it wasn't that,
00:46:07you know, he can be very forward when he trains.
00:46:10His workout pattern is there.
00:46:12We didn't need a 59 breeze in this horse going a mile and a half.
00:46:15And so it was literally a two minute leg day.
00:46:18And Archangelo's two minute leg happens to be a little quicker than other people's
00:46:23idea of a two minute leg.
00:46:25So, you know, it was just meant to be exactly what it was.
00:46:29I think everyone got a little ruffled about it.
00:46:31That's fine.
00:46:32That's on them, not on me.
00:46:34He came.
00:46:34I was on the pony, came back to the back side.
00:46:36And Robert was like, just shaking his head.
00:46:38I'm like, you're killing me Smalls.
00:46:39I'm like, I'm going to get so lit up for this.
00:46:41I'm like, but it is what it is.
00:46:43And he needed that Javier's breeze beforehand was exactly what Javier needed for that day.
00:46:50And I needed to make sure that I could put the saddle on him on Saturday.
00:46:53So that was why we did what we did because we were getting a little,
00:46:58you know, a little sharp, a little early.
00:47:00So I wanted him to take a breath there, guy.
00:47:04Jenna, you mentioned that he can be a little bit quirky and that John Ebert buys quirky
00:47:10horses.
00:47:10Can you expound on that a little bit?
00:47:12And how did you meet John?
00:47:13Were you whistling at him at Keeneland?
00:47:15Not him.
00:47:16No, not him.
00:47:17Katie was whistling for me.
00:47:21We were in the back ring watching something come up.
00:47:23And Katie was trying to get my attention from across the back ring at Keeneland.
00:47:28And she whistled and he happened to be standing next to her.
00:47:31And he was like, hey, whoa, like, you know, come on now.
00:47:34And and there was some a level of sarcasm that threaded through.
00:47:40And it was just one of those things where John was like, oh, my God, I think I found
00:47:43my people, you know, and it just evolved from there.
00:47:46And John's had his own experiences in the industry.
00:47:50And I'm super grateful that we fit what he was looking for.
00:47:54And it just seems to have been the right time.
00:47:55And the powers to be above us, you know, kind of letting all things and synergies come
00:47:59together.
00:48:00As far as the quirkiness in Archangelo, he's a big personality.
00:48:05And I think it's super important for horses with big personalities to show them.
00:48:11When we try and compartmentalize them too much to make ourselves comfortable, I think
00:48:15we dampen them.
00:48:16And you can dampen their spirit and their fight in them.
00:48:19So he's a round pen guy twice a day.
00:48:22I know people sometimes get like horrified.
00:48:24Oh, my God, something could happen.
00:48:25I promise you, if I leave that horse in the stall and don't let him have his round pen
00:48:29time, something's going to happen.
00:48:30And so, you know, we take all the necessary safety precautions and whatnot, but he needs
00:48:35his time to have his space and to be able to get out some of that kid energy and just
00:48:40be in his own space for some time each day.
00:48:43He usually goes out there at least twice a day to be as much of a horse as possible.
00:48:47And, you know, he's just quirky.
00:48:49You know, he wants to have the time to stand on the track and to look around and to take
00:48:54it all in and make sure someone doesn't want to take a picture of him.
00:48:57He just knows he's pretty.
00:48:58And he's just that guy a little bit.
00:49:03Just like Randy.
00:49:05Just like Randy.
00:49:06Yes, yes, exactly.
00:49:11So I heard you mention, Jenna, several times now that this is an example of how many horse
00:49:19men and horsewomen out there can succeed if given the opportunity with the right horse.
00:49:25I've heard you talk about how owners and racing managers tend to overemphasize win
00:49:32percentage of trainers, among other things.
00:49:35And you had a funny story about a conversation with a handicapper who didn't know he was
00:49:41talking to you referencing win percentage.
00:49:44Can you kind of tell us about all that a little bit?
00:49:46Um, you know, I've I've spent probably my lifetime going against the current and not
00:49:52on purpose, just trying to see past the BS sometimes.
00:49:58And I don't like for anyone's voices to be silenced.
00:50:03And I don't like for anyone to feel like they're not relevant and they're not important.
00:50:06And that's something that, you know, I see everybody.
00:50:10You know, I'm grateful for every single person that works on that racetrack, whether
00:50:14they're a security guy, someone picking up garbage, someone, whatever they're doing,
00:50:19they're they're doing the best they can in their capacity.
00:50:22And without them, the rest of it doesn't work.
00:50:25And so I think that's just something that I've always pulled forward.
00:50:27You know, the the sacrifice and the commitment that a lot of our help gives to provide for
00:50:32their families, you know, whether they're here on a visa program and they don't are
00:50:36not with their families all the time.
00:50:38That sacrifice is just something that is profound to me.
00:50:42You know, this is this is how they're making it happen in their space.
00:50:46And so I probably sent it a little hard with Steve Beck yesterday on that.
00:50:51But I do think people need to own their space and be more accountable.
00:50:56And, you know, I think agents, you know, they're doing their best to get money into the business
00:51:02and investors and owners in here.
00:51:04And they don't want to be wrong.
00:51:06And they're, oh, if I'm wrong, I may lose this guy and this guy might go somewhere else.
00:51:11And when we start making fear based decisions, we make bad decisions.
00:51:15And, you know, we need to be able to sell our sport to new people in a way that isn't
00:51:21just a a percentage.
00:51:24You know, it's not rocket science.
00:51:27If I have one runner and the big guy has five runners, if I lose one, it's going to take
00:51:33me an entire racing cycle to try and overcome the loss on a percentage.
00:51:38It's basic math.
00:51:41This isn't anything cosmic.
00:51:42And so I think we continue to do our industry a huge disjustice by trying to use that number
00:51:48as the great equalizer.
00:51:50And that's up to people above my pay grade to figure out how to represent the middle
00:51:56guy better.
00:51:57You know, whether it's doing a different tiered system of people with this amount of starts,
00:52:02you know, here's a statistic for them and people with this many starts, here's a statistic
00:52:06for them.
00:52:07We don't have the luxury of sending the million dollar horse to a B level track to get the
00:52:11win to erase the three other losses.
00:52:15And that's just reality.
00:52:16It's not just my reality.
00:52:17It is the reality of our industry.
00:52:20And it is continually what puts us behind the eight ball and the perception of, listen,
00:52:25I know the big guys.
00:52:26They've been wonderful to me.
00:52:27I don't have a disparaging thing to say about any of them.
00:52:30They've been gracious through all this.
00:52:31They've all reached out and they have their place.
00:52:35And their place is very important.
00:52:38But a healthy industry needs a middle market.
00:52:40And it needs the Monday through Friday runners to be able to have the Saturday runners.
00:52:45And we can make it different.
00:52:47And it's every single person contributing to that and bloodstock guys and gals and whatnot
00:52:53being brave enough to be wrong if they're wrong.
00:52:56But how horses go on once they leave certain barns or if they're claimed or do they not
00:53:01go on and seeing the backside and seeing people how they handle themselves and how
00:53:06they handle their barns and whatnot.
00:53:09That's how we continue to improve it and give the non-designer label an opportunity.
00:53:15And as you've been on the Jenna Antonucci media tour the last three days with outlets
00:53:21like Fox that may not know much, if anything, about horse racing, is there one single overriding
00:53:28message that you're trying to deliver to people watching that may not know all that
00:53:32much about the sport?
00:53:34It's amazing.
00:53:35And it's full of amazing people.
00:53:38And I'm very aware and we'll talk about the taboo topic.
00:53:42I don't have a problem talking about it, you know, breakdowns and fatalities.
00:53:45And I very clearly understand that the general public views our industry as we're profiting
00:53:52from horses and we're killing them.
00:53:53Like let's be honest.
00:53:54Right.
00:53:55And that's the key thread that we are all trying to navigate and do better with.
00:53:59So if we aren't telling our story and if we aren't sharing with people how we're doing
00:54:05better, whether you want to lean into HYSA or not, we have to and we are.
00:54:12We are doing better and we will continue to do better.
00:54:16And it's setting realistic expectations and educating people on what amazing things happen
00:54:23and what amazing lives these horses have and how much they enrich life for so many people.
00:54:29And it's not just about chasing a trophy or a win percentage and putting more color in
00:54:35what we do and not such a black and white, sterile, starchy response to everything, because
00:54:41I think that's very disenfranchising for people and it makes us look like we don't care.
00:54:47And that couldn't be further from the truth.
00:54:49Jenna, I just have one more on a brighter note.
00:54:52I can remember talking to you in March at the OBS sale and you were there with Manny
00:54:58and we're chatting away and you're like, oh yeah, the big horse.
00:55:01And I'm like, who's the big horse?
00:55:03And you're like, looked at me like I was crazy.
00:55:05You're like, Archangelo.
00:55:06And I'm like, Christ, I don't know who this guy is.
00:55:09So you're like, well, we're going to run in the Peter Pan, Zoe, all right.
00:55:12I'm like, okay, okay.
00:55:14So we had a good chat about him and you were telling me about, you know, how amazing he
00:55:17was and everything.
00:55:18And then I walked off and I'm Googling, I'm like, Archangelo, I'm like, oh, he just broke
00:55:22his maiden.
00:55:23Okay, great.
00:55:24You're like, we're going to run in the Peter Pan.
00:55:26What a plan to come together.
00:55:29He broke his maiden in March, you run in the Peter Pan, you had a plan.
00:55:33So how exactly did you feel watching that big baby cross the wire in front in the Belmont
00:55:42Stakes?
00:55:43Can you just take us through how you felt when you were screaming and just saw him get
00:55:48the lead?
00:55:49You must have thought I was crazy in March, and that's okay, but you know, sometimes you
00:56:15gotta swing.
00:56:16And that was part of what I said in the coming days too, is like, they're going to expect
00:56:23me to be wrong.
00:56:24I mean, I have like the hall pass to swing away.
00:56:27Oh, it didn't happen.
00:56:28No big deal.
00:56:29You know, move over here again.
00:56:31So like, really, I had the hall pass.
00:56:33I had nothing to lose to try it and to do it even with the Peter Pan and even coming
00:56:38forward to the Belmont Stakes.
00:56:39And John is extremely involved in our path.
00:56:42And, you know, after we broke our maiden, I sent him the next 90 days of stake opportunities
00:56:49from obscurity to the big stage.
00:56:53And it was, if this doesn't happen here, here, you know, it was just all the if scenarios
00:56:57because managing business, that's the other part of this, you know, it's just finding
00:57:01all your, what you have to do.
00:57:03And it just was the right move for this horse and this time.
00:57:09And that's how we got there.
00:57:11And it was the great ask.
00:57:13You know, we weren't going to duck anybody.
00:57:15I'm not a ducker.
00:57:16Like, if we're in the gate, let's do this.
00:57:18And so it just, I think, happened a bit naturally.
00:57:24Didn't want to hard commit to things because I wanted the horse to have the breathing room
00:57:27he needed if we felt he needed more time and playing the woman card.
00:57:33Just kidding.
00:57:34You know, being noncommittal.
00:57:36Total joke.
00:57:37Total joke.
00:57:38Just wanting to give the breathing room to this horse, to let him be him.
00:57:44And I know that sounds just so fundamental, but it really was.
00:57:46And he did great.
00:57:48Obviously, Javier continued to learn about the colt through the Peter Pan.
00:57:53And I think the part of the film that I look a little insane on, it was when the rail opened.
00:58:02I think one of the details that hasn't been talked about, the rail was a bit dead Belmont
00:58:08Day.
00:58:09And so we traveled most of our trip on a dead rail, which is crazy to me.
00:58:13And Johnny just fanning those guys wide like he should do.
00:58:17He knew a horse was behind him, but he didn't know which horse was over there.
00:58:21And when he fanned them, that's the video clip when I went, because it was like, oh
00:58:28my God, are you kidding me?
00:58:30It was like, oh, here you go.
00:58:33And so that's when we went crazy.
00:58:35Our plan was to take the jump on them.
00:58:38We knew we had a longer sustained run than most others do.
00:58:43And we knew we had a high cruising speed.
00:58:45That's not a secret.
00:58:46Everyone knew that.
00:58:47So yes, our plan was to get the jump.
00:58:49And Javier had the plan of getting in front and putting his horse in front of everybody
00:58:55and making them come around us if they could.
00:58:58And so my lack of connection to reality and that stretch run was just the fact that we
00:59:07got a rail trip, cut the corner, and got a jump on.
00:59:10It was like, holy crap, it worked.
00:59:12And then just go, buddy, go.
00:59:14And Javier, you better ride your tail off, my friend.
00:59:17And he did.
00:59:18And the rest is, I guess, literally history.
00:59:22John, one more question before I let you go, because we've left out one of the most important
00:59:28topics of this whole story.
00:59:31How big a deal is it to you, and how important is the whole female issue, the first to win
00:59:35not only the Belmont stakes, but a triple crown race?
00:59:39Thanks for that, Bill.
00:59:40I'm the benefactor of an amazing horse.
00:59:44And with whatever opportunity that throws my way, my job is to continue to steward this
00:59:50horse and any horse.
00:59:52And if it gives me a little sliver to help steward this sport and to a better, healthier
00:59:56direction and to share our story, then I feel in any industry that you're in, you should
01:00:02always give back to the industry.
01:00:06Obviously, my big part of aftercare and advocating that is just a corner of who I am with everything.
01:00:15And so I think that's what it means to me.
01:00:20And if it makes a little girl dig a little harder and try a little harder and get a shot
01:00:25in the chin and continue to move on, then I'll own that space.
01:00:28It makes me a little bit uncomfortable, because I'd rather be at the farm where it's quiet.
01:00:33But that's fine.
01:00:34And I'll find my footing with all of that.
01:00:36But we have a responsibility to not only the sport, but to the horses to continue to work
01:00:41hard for them, because they give us everything.
01:00:43What we do is an absolute privilege and a blessing.
01:00:46Yeah, I would say that was absolutely great stuff and much appreciated.
01:00:51I know you're getting on everybody and Fox and CNN and everybody's pulling at you in
01:00:56a bunch of different directions.
01:00:58Thanks so much for taking some time out of your busy schedule.
01:01:02Again, congratulations on a wonderful victory.
01:01:04It was good news for horse racing.
01:01:06Isn't that nice?
01:01:06Thanks so much, Jenna Antonucci.
01:01:08Thank you, Bill.
01:01:09Thanks, Zoe.
01:01:09Thanks, Randy.
01:01:11As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Jenna Antonucci will receive a free one hour
01:01:16tax consultation from the Green Group.
01:01:19For more information on what the Green Group can do for you, go to www.greenco.com.
01:01:26Are you paying too much in taxes?
01:01:28The Green Group can help.
01:01:30There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select the Green Group
01:01:34as their tax advisors.
01:01:36They save you money and share successful strategies.
01:01:40Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Len Green, has owned and bred some of the
01:01:45best racehorses in the history of the sport, like Eclipse award-winning champions, Jay
01:01:50Walk and Wonder Wheel.
01:01:51His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the game's most prestigious
01:01:56honors.
01:01:57Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge, combined with cutting-edge tax
01:02:02saving strategies, has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group
01:02:07the top-rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business.
01:02:11For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100 or visit our website
01:02:19at www.greenco.com.
01:02:22The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
01:02:27With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
01:02:33been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
01:02:39Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing
01:02:44California, Florida, and New York.
01:02:47Kentucky breds.
01:02:49Breed them.
01:02:50Raise them.
01:02:51Race them.
01:02:53We all win.
01:02:57Eight of the nine Belmont Stakes runners were Kentucky breds, including the winner,
01:03:03Arcangelo, bred by the Don Alberto Corporation, Chilean-based, but also now with a farm in
01:03:08Kentucky.
01:03:10Remember this.
01:03:11Three different horses won the Derby Preakness in Belmont this year, three different last
01:03:15year, three different in 2021.
01:03:18All nine of those horses were Kentucky breds.
01:03:22Kentucky breds also swept both grade ones on Friday, five of the sixth grade ones on
01:03:27Saturday, with Caravelle, the Pennsylvania bred, being the only exception.
01:03:31You can find your next Kentucky bred, Zoe will be there, at this week's OBS June Sale.
01:03:37Well, there were a couple off-track stories during the week, and I want to start with
01:03:41one that involved Linda Rice.
01:03:44You probably know the background of that.
01:03:45She was suspended originally for, or not suspended, they were going to revoke her license,
01:03:49the New York Gaming Commission, for three years, alleging that she was getting a favorable
01:03:55treatment from the racing office at Naira, that they were telling her which horses were
01:03:59in races, and then she was being able to pick her spots here and there.
01:04:04Some allegations that she was paying for this information, she disputed that.
01:04:09Well, they went to court, and boy, did the court come down heavily on Linda Rice's side,
01:04:17calling the suspension entirely unwarranted.
01:04:23If you read the decision from, it was an appeals court, federal appeals court, that basically
01:04:29they came to the conclusion that everybody was getting some information.
01:04:35They wanted to say, well, you could tell them this about a race, but you couldn't tell them
01:04:39that, and then they brought in PJ Campo, the racing secretary.
01:04:44He said this was no big deal, and then Martin Panza, who was director of racing at the time,
01:04:49contradicted him.
01:04:49So you had two former Naira executives giving different stories, but we've seen a pattern
01:04:56from the New York Gaming Commission where they've just been too heavy-handed, where
01:05:01they suspended the clock of Richie Gazer for doing absolutely nothing, and they got slapped
01:05:07around pretty good by the court.
01:05:09Linda Rice likely will still have to pay a fine of $50,000, so it's not like she was
01:05:14completely pristine and pure in this.
01:05:18There were some allegations that maybe they took this thing too far, but it amounted to
01:05:22much ado about nothing, and Linda Rice wins big.
01:05:26This is ladies' day.
01:05:27We talked to Ginta Antonucci, Caravelle beat the boys.
01:05:30Zoe, you go first here.
01:05:34I think it's great they finally made the right call, because anyone knows you call the racing
01:05:40office, they'll come and hustle you to run a horse in a race.
01:05:44This stuff goes on everywhere, and you'll know.
01:05:47You'll talk to a jocks agent.
01:05:48Hey, is so-and-so going in here?
01:05:50Is so-and-so going in there?
01:05:52It happens, and for them to make such, such a big deal over it, just because Linda was
01:05:57the leading trainer at the time, get over it.
01:06:01They did make the right decision, for sure.
01:06:03So good for Linda, and yes, she will have to pay a fine, and she has no problem with
01:06:08that.
01:06:09The court also ventured into the area of whether or not her gender had something to do with
01:06:14this.
01:06:15I don't think it did, but the court said, not to be overlooked, is that the petitioner
01:06:20is the only trainer ever disciplined by the respondent for this rule's violation.
01:06:24A troublesome point, given that the petitioner is the only female trainer ever to win a training
01:06:29title at a New York track.
01:06:30OK, so off-track news.
01:06:31Linda Rice had a good week.
01:06:33Kent DiZarmo did not.
01:06:35The story broke on Saturday.
01:06:37It came up on the CHRB, California Horse Racing Board website, that DiZarmo going forward
01:06:43is going to have to conduct a breathalyzer test every single day before he gets on horses
01:06:50in the morning, before he rides horses in the afternoon, and the reason is because we
01:06:56learned now that he failed a breathalyzer test at Santa Anita on March 31st.
01:07:01It's sad.
01:07:03It looked like, you know, we've heard it a dozen times out of him, but once again, it
01:07:06looked like maybe he had gotten things under control, but apparently that is not necessarily
01:07:13the case.
01:07:13I feel bad for him, but at some point, I mean, it's not three strikes you're out.
01:07:18It's 12 strikes you're out in his case.
01:07:23I do think if he fails a breathalyzer test that he's going to have to be held to, that
01:07:31it probably would be the end of his career.
01:07:32I don't hope for that.
01:07:34I hope for him to get his act together, but this was not a good moment for Kent DiZarmo,
01:07:40and obviously the troubles you would think are still with him.
01:07:44I could argue the fact he's actually had a very good weekend.
01:07:47He had two three-day win days this weekend.
01:07:52That happened back in March.
01:07:54He was taken off his mount that day.
01:07:57He was back the next day, and no one really knew what was going on, and it's all to do
01:08:02with due process, and they had to go through the process and decide what they're going
01:08:06to do with him, the CHRP.
01:08:07I don't really know anything about it, but in the interim, he's been exemplary, so I
01:08:14don't know how many strikes he's got.
01:08:16I don't know.
01:08:17I'd assume that this would have been the last one, but he's back.
01:08:21He's working horses, and he's riding terrifically, so if he's allowed to go on, I'm not going
01:08:27to make judgment on that whatsoever.
01:08:30That's not my call.
01:08:32But he is riding terrifically.
01:08:34Yeah.
01:08:35Most of what I don't understand about this whole thing is just it's a common refrain
01:08:40nowadays in horse racing.
01:08:41It's just the administrative part of this, okay?
01:08:46If the California horse racing authorities believe that if he fails a breathalyzer test,
01:08:53he then poses a danger to the other jockeys and to himself if he's riding and needs to
01:08:58be just immediately put on ice.
01:09:03He failed a breathalyzer test in April, and they didn't get around to this ruling until
01:09:09June, and in the meantime, he's been riding on a regular basis and, as Zoe pointed out,
01:09:15winning.
01:09:16Why a two-month delay?
01:09:19The whole thing is just, I don't want to say bizarre, but it's just very, very unusual.
01:09:26I would love to see him get his act back together.
01:09:29He's 53 years old.
01:09:30The fact that he has a drinking problem and he's still winning races the way he's winning
01:09:36just points out what a talented rider Quinto Sarmo actually is.
01:09:41But this whole thing, to me, just smells of Pat Valenzuela all over again.
01:09:46And you'd like to be optimistic, but at this point, it's becoming tougher and tougher and
01:09:52tougher to be optimistic.
01:09:55Thanks, BTV.
01:09:55Work of the week is Arabian Night.
01:09:57We mentioned him earlier, so let's take a look at that half-mile work.
01:10:01This was going in 47-2 last Saturday at Santa Anita and his most serious work yet on his
01:10:09way back to the races.
01:10:10Arabian Night was an impressive winner on the Breeders' Cup undercard and ran his record
01:10:15to a perfect two-for-two in the Southwest Stakes for trainer Bob Baffert.
01:10:19The son of Uncle Mo is targeting the Haskell per Bob Baffert, and this was an absolutely
01:10:26terrific work.
01:10:27We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:10:58All the thrills.
01:11:02Fraction of the bills.
01:11:07Experience the power of the partnership.
01:11:12Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:11:19West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:11:24West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:11:28Visit westpointtb.com.
01:11:31TDN Riders Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:11:34Joining a West Point partnership can launch you into the winner's circle and give you
01:11:38instant camaraderie with your fellow owners.
01:11:41Parnak, the French bed filly that we talked about last week, ended up winning on Sunday
01:11:45at Belmont for trainer Christophe Clement.
01:11:47That gives West Point 32 wins on the year.
01:11:50This weekend, they have Mount Up looking to break his maiden at Belmont.
01:11:53It was a $400,000 yearling buy and was second on debut last October.
01:11:58It's now coming in off the layoff for Todd Pletcher, West Point Stable, Vinnie Vaillo,
01:12:03St. Elias Stable, and Rob Maschiello.
01:12:06Well, that is a wrap on another edition of the TDN Writers Room, a post-Belmont edition.
01:12:12I want to thank my cohorts, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:12:15Special shout out and thanks, Jenna and Antonucci.
01:12:18Just a terrific interview and nice of her to take some time out when she's being pulled
01:12:23by every media outlet in the country, it seems.
01:12:26But good for her.
01:12:27Also, our co-producers, Katie Petruniak, Anthony LaRocca, our editors, Leah LaRocca and Nathan
01:12:33Wilkinson.
01:12:33And I know Lucy must be back there somewhere, Randy, right?
01:12:36There you go.
01:12:37She's out.
01:12:39All right.
01:12:41That's a wrap, everybody.
01:12:42We'll talk to you next week.