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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Good afternoon, it's Wednesday, April 5th at 1232 in the East Coast and welcome to another
00:00:33edition of the TDN Writer's Room Podcast.
00:00:35My name is Bill Finley and I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, also host
00:00:39the Down the Stretch show on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:42Tune us in on Saturday mornings, Channel 85, 10 Eastern.
00:00:45Hi Bill, hi Zoe, I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:49Zoe Cabman here with First Racing.
00:00:51I'm missing Doodle, he's having a meltdown, I shaved his tail, I put a cone on him yesterday,
00:00:56so he's not happy.
00:00:58So if you see him running around here, I don't know what's got into him, but there we go.
00:01:04But of course, we can always count on Lucy to be a part of the show.
00:01:08She's as vigorous and feisty as ever, I see there, Randy.
00:01:14Still not sure that dog is actually alive, but anyways, alright, so lots to talk about
00:01:20obviously at that time of year with all the Triple Crown preps, let's go back to the major
00:01:24race of last weekend, or one of a couple of major races, was the Florida Derby.
00:01:29And you know, I saw somebody showed a split screen of the race and Mike Rapoli, and as
00:01:37this is unfolding, and you see this look of concern on his face, he looks like he wants
00:01:41to die.
00:01:42And then all of a sudden he kind of brightens a little bit, and then he just, it's like
00:01:47a sense of relief.
00:01:49And you know, what do you make of Forte's Florida Derby?
00:01:52That's a question everybody's asking.
00:01:55People said he had a bad trip.
00:01:56I don't think he had a bad trip at all.
00:01:57I think Gerard Ortiz did a very good job, matter of fact, working out a decent trip
00:02:01from the 11 post.
00:02:03But on the turn, when Mage blew by him, you wouldn't give him any chance to have won this
00:02:11race.
00:02:12Reminds me a little bit about what we said about the other pletcher horse, Tappit Trice,
00:02:15in the Tampa Bay Derby.
00:02:16But lo and behold, at the finish line, he's the winner, last 16th of a mile, he put his
00:02:21head down and dug in and got the job done.
00:02:24I don't think any less of him after this race, but Randy, I don't think any more of him after
00:02:29this race.
00:02:30I like this fountain of youth better, to be honest with you, but he's a deserving favorite
00:02:33for the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:34We'll see what happens this weekend.
00:02:35He's an awfully good horse.
00:02:36That's my take.
00:02:37Yeah, it's an interesting race to try to analyze going forward to the Kentucky Derby.
00:02:43If you could put a lie detector on Luis Saez, I think he was probably just as concerned
00:02:47as Mike Rapoli at about the 5.16 pole when Mage blew his doors off there around the turn.
00:02:53And I don't buy the notion that Ayran Ortiz was just sitting there with a handful of horse
00:02:58playing possum.
00:02:59Because if you watch him, he was riding Forte from the time they got into the turn all the
00:03:04way through the finish.
00:03:05I'm not saying he was in a drive, but he was not sitting there under a hold, right?
00:03:09I mean, Mage just had a better turn of foot around the turn than Forte did.
00:03:16There are reasons to be encouraged, I guess, and I think there are reasons to be discouraged
00:03:24looking ahead to the Kentucky Derby.
00:03:27Reasons to be encouraged.
00:03:29I thought he held serve.
00:03:31I agree with you that visually it might not have been quite as impressive as it was in
00:03:35the Fountain of Youth, where he showed a little bit more of a flash of brilliance when he
00:03:41darted around those horses at the top of the stretch and quickly opened up.
00:03:45Their speed figure went down a titch from 98 to 95.
00:03:49That doesn't bother me at all because of the trip.
00:03:53You can't just take a number completely out of context with how the race was run.
00:03:58In the Fountain of Youth, Forte was two wide around the turns.
00:04:02In the Florida Derby, because of the post position, he was roughly three wide around
00:04:06both turns, which was a victory considering his number 11 post.
00:04:11What not to like?
00:04:15To me, he was a grinder in the Florida Derby, as opposed to Mays, who showed that quick
00:04:19turn of foot.
00:04:20He just grounded out and yeah, he finished with a nice final furlong and final 16th to
00:04:25get the job done.
00:04:26But in the Kentucky Derby, oftentimes to hit those holes, riders need horses that are a
00:04:31little more handy and not so much of a grinder as Forte was.
00:04:38And even though you can make the case, look, if you knew nothing about these horses going
00:04:44in, nothing at all, and you watched the Florida Derby, and it was the fifth race on Friday
00:04:51at Gulfstream Park, you would come away from that race thinking that Mays was the better
00:04:55horse.
00:04:56You would.
00:04:57I mean, Mays broke slowly again, made what might have been a premature move, I'm not
00:05:03so sure about that, but five wide, four to five wide around the turn, and then ran out
00:05:08of gas in the final eighth of a mile.
00:05:11Maybe Mays doesn't want to go that far.
00:05:14Maybe he doesn't want a mile and an eighth, and maybe Forte just capitalized on that in
00:05:18the last part of the race.
00:05:19I don't know.
00:05:21But the way Forte finished in relation to Mays was impressive, but by the clock, especially
00:05:28compared to the Arkansas Derby we're going to talk about later, I have some cause for
00:05:33concern about Forte.
00:05:35And I think you hit the nail on the head.
00:05:37That was exactly how I was going to explain it.
00:05:40If you didn't know who the two horses were and you watched the race visually, you would
00:05:44have said that Mays was the better horse.
00:05:48He was last down the backside, Forte was in front of him.
00:05:52That move he made at the three-eighths pole was turf-like.
00:05:56He showed a turn of foot that I've not seen in any Derby horse.
00:06:00Maybe the horse of Cox's that actually won the Arkansas Derby, maybe that would be the
00:06:06same kind of turn of foot, but Mays was visually impressive.
00:06:10What I took from Forte was that he did show some grit and determination, but my biggest
00:06:16concern would be, did it gut him?
00:06:20That was a tough race.
00:06:21I know everyone said he pricked his ears at the wire and there was more in the tank, but
00:06:25that's exactly what you're supposed to say if you're in the Fort camp.
00:06:29I don't know.
00:06:30I want to see him bucking, kicking, and squealing, and just knocking the shed row down going
00:06:36into the first Saturday of May.
00:06:39There were a couple of pictures of him laying down in the stall.
00:06:41I don't know if he laid down for three days.
00:06:43I would have laid down for a week if that was me running like Forte in the Florida Derby.
00:06:49I think he laid it all out there.
00:06:51I'm hoping it wasn't his Kentucky Derby because he ran too hard to lose and he didn't lose.
00:06:59I don't know.
00:07:00That was a tough race on him.
00:07:03Beyond the first and the second place finishes, I don't know, but visually, I would definitely
00:07:08take Mage.
00:07:09As Randy said, maybe Mage has distance limitations, but he's not as experienced.
00:07:17Maybe he thought the finish pole was the 16th pole.
00:07:20Maybe he idled a bit.
00:07:21I don't know.
00:07:22It was a puzzling race for me, especially the final time that we're going to get into
00:07:27as well.
00:07:28Go ahead, Randy.
00:07:29When you look ahead now to the Kentucky Derby, we think Mage ran a really good race in relation
00:07:38to Forte.
00:07:39You can make the case that Mage ran a better race than Forte.
00:07:43Forte probably deserves to be the Kentucky Derby's favorite just because of his consistency
00:07:48and his body of work.
00:07:50Even though Mage ran so well in the Florida Derby, look, he's had three lifetime starts.
00:07:55The first start, a one-mile maiden race, he hesitated at the start.
00:08:01He ran up quickly and was on the pace anyway.
00:08:04Second start in the Fountain of Youth, he broke into the side of the gate.
00:08:07In the Florida Derby, again, he hesitated at the start.
00:08:11He's three for three now in that category.
00:08:13You can't expect him to do anything different in the Kentucky Derby.
00:08:16If he again breaks sluggishly in the Kentucky Derby in a 20-horse field, he's in a world
00:08:20of trouble.
00:08:22Even though he might have looked as good as Forte, all things considered, in Florida,
00:08:26when you play it forward to the Kentucky Derby, it's very difficult to think that Mage will
00:08:33run as well as Forte given that.
00:08:35All right.
00:08:36Guys, we need to calm down a little bit about Mage.
00:08:38I love this race, too, but Forte beat him two in a row in here, so where are they all
00:08:45going to become Traverse Time?
00:08:46We'll find out.
00:08:48Yeah, he obviously ran a very good race, but just take it easy here a little bit.
00:08:52Okay.
00:08:53All right.
00:08:54Now, Randy, the other story, and we've talked about this before, and it just makes me cringe.
00:09:02You're the guy who's always on top of these things.
00:09:04They got the time wrong with the race.
00:09:07It was about nearly a second.
00:09:10As you pointed out, you had to change the buyer figure.
00:09:14I'm going to make the same point that I've made in print, that I've made talking on this
00:09:18show.
00:09:19How is this possible that this sport in 2023 can't tie a goddamn horse race?
00:09:24How difficult is that, and why do we not have these problems in other sports?
00:09:29It makes the sport seem amateurish to me, and somebody's got to figure this out and
00:09:33fix this.
00:09:34Ben, in any case, why don't you tell us the story of what happened here with time?
00:09:36Well, look, this is going to surprise you.
00:09:39I'm not that negative about what happened with the final time in the Florida Derby.
00:09:48Let me briefly explain that.
00:09:53Gulfstream Park has gone to wireless beams for their final times, as opposed to the GPS
00:10:01that GMAX uses at some other places, that has proven to be very faulty.
00:10:06The beams have been performing exceptionally well throughout the Gulfstream Park meeting.
00:10:11They've been yielding accurate times at Gulfstream.
00:10:14When you have a photo-eye beam, whether it's at Naira or Churchill Downs or Gulfstream
00:10:20or anywhere that has a malfunction like this, it's almost with 100% certainty that what
00:10:27happened is somehow, some way, the beam got tripped before the horses hit the finish line.
00:10:35It can be caused by a variety of different things, by birds, by someone in the way, someone
00:10:40with an arm in the way.
00:10:42Ben, there's no head-on replay, unfortunately, which is amazing by itself, of the Florida
00:10:48Derby to be able to look and see if anybody was standing around the outside rail about
00:10:52where the beam is.
00:10:53You see this happen from time to time everywhere.
00:10:56In the Breeders' Cup Classic last year, when Epicenter was injured on the backstretch,
00:11:00the outrider, who was way up by the half-mile pole, took off on the outside rail to try
00:11:05to tend to Epicenter, and he tripped the beam that screwed up the six-furlong fraction.
00:11:10Stuff like that happens.
00:11:12To me, the bigger problem at Gulfstream Park is that all the fractional times are still
00:11:15timed by GPS, and they're all bad, right?
00:11:19But the final time, this was just a one-off.
00:11:22This was just an unfortunate incident that could happen anywhere with a working beam
00:11:29that just gets tripped early.
00:11:31And I'm glad we caught it, and I'm glad Craig Malkowski and David Aragona deserve a lot
00:11:37of credit for catching it, and I'm glad that it was officially changed without a beef.
00:11:43The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:11:46Last September, we witnessed an unprecedented energy, magic, and momentum with the highest
00:11:52grossing auction in Keeneland history.
00:11:55And this year, it all returns at the September Yearling Sale.
00:11:59Entry deadline is May 1st.
00:12:02Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:12:05We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:12:26Steady and strong beneath the roar.
00:12:30Reminding us why.
00:12:32For the love of the horse.
00:12:35For generations to come.
00:12:39He was just put together like a machine, and he had a great mind.
00:12:42Everything about him was what you'd want.
00:12:44Tis the law!
00:12:45Pops the cork and the champagne!
00:12:47Tis the law is gonna win the first leg of the Triple Crown!
00:12:51I've never seen him get tired.
00:12:53Respect the law!
00:12:54Tis the law!
00:12:55His structure is just perfect.
00:12:57His bone is perfect.
00:12:59He's left the others behind!
00:13:01He's gonna win the Run Happy Travers!
00:13:03He's everything you would look for in a horse.
00:13:09The TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:13:12Coolmore Sire Classic Empire became the first of third crop sires to get a grade one winner
00:13:18this weekend when Angel of Empire emulated his sire with a dominant win in the grade
00:13:23one Arkansas Derby.
00:13:25Classic Empire is second on the Derby Points leaderboards with 154, behind only Forte.
00:13:33And Uncle Mo's hot streak continues.
00:13:36His daughter, Falconette, won her second stakes rate of the year in Sunday's Top Flight Stakes
00:13:41at Agrabah.
00:13:43Well, the other big race over the weekend besides the Florida Derby was, of course,
00:13:46the Arkansas Derby.
00:13:47We're going to talk to Brad Cox a little bit later in the podcast as he's this week's Green
00:13:51Group Guest of the Week.
00:13:52He, of course, is the trainer of Angel of Empire, the winner of the Arkansas Derby by
00:13:57four and one quarter lengths.
00:13:59Well, we know that Forte is, quote unquote, the horse to beat in the Kentucky Derby, despite
00:14:05some of the things we said about his Florida Derby not being great.
00:14:07But unless something really crazy happens this weekend, he'll be the favorite in the
00:14:11Kentucky Derby.
00:14:12But who is number two on everybody's list?
00:14:15And I think we now have a clear number two.
00:14:17I mean, Angel of Empire looked really good winning this race for Brad Cox.
00:14:21He won by four and a quarter lengths.
00:14:23And, you know, this is just a horse that's in good form, is getting better all the time,
00:14:27is obviously in the right hands.
00:14:28Can he win the Kentucky Derby?
00:14:29Absolutely, he can.
00:14:30I mean, maybe even if Forte runs his A race, I wouldn't think it's out of the question
00:14:35that Angel of Empire could beat him.
00:14:38Some of the other storylines, the Arkansas Derby, I thought, were that a couple other
00:14:42horses that were highly regarded contenders for the Kentucky Derby, they might make the
00:14:47Derby, but they kind of ran themselves out of the picture so far as the top horses.
00:14:52You had King Russell at 58 to 1, was second.
00:14:55Reincarnate, who had that tough trip in the Rebel Stakes, he was kind of a blah third.
00:15:00Rocket Kan, who won the Holy Bull and was second behind Forte in the founding, he was
00:15:05kind of a blah fourth.
00:15:06And Red Rocket won, even with the blinkers on, showed it was up to his old tricks.
00:15:11He's a million miles behind and closed just for sixth.
00:15:14So I don't see anybody coming out of the Arkansas Derby as a major Kentucky Derby threat
00:15:19other than Angel of Empire, but lots of like about his race, Randy.
00:15:22Yeah, I mean, I was very impressed with it.
00:15:25And Zoe, I know you are too.
00:15:27You've already talked a little bit about Angel of Empire.
00:15:30Do you really like it as much as Bill?
00:15:33Yeah, I mean, his final time was terrific and he showed just the right turn of foot
00:15:39and he's tactical enough to where he's not going to be sitting last in the final flight
00:15:45of horses.
00:15:46I think that Flavian knows him well enough now.
00:15:49He can put him just about anywhere he wants.
00:15:52So he's going to have a tough decision.
00:15:54But as we know, there's always going to be horses falling by the wayside.
00:16:00Six weeks away now, I don't even know, but things are going to happen.
00:16:04It's going to be jockey changes all over the place and jockey merry-go-round.
00:16:10It really is.
00:16:11But I thought his race was fantastic.
00:16:13And how about Blaine, broodmare sire of him and also the sire of wet paint who took down
00:16:18the fantasy.
00:16:18So a huge weekend for him.
00:16:21Zoe, I've got a question for you as well.
00:16:22We're going to talk to Brad Cox a little bit later about the jockey situation.
00:16:26Flavian Pratt happens a lot with top jockeys this time of year, has got some tough decisions
00:16:33to make.
00:16:33He rides Angel of Empire.
00:16:34He also rides Kings Barn, Louisiana Derby winner for Todd Pletcher.
00:16:38You're an old jockey.
00:16:39What would you have done?
00:16:40What are you going to do with those two horses?
00:16:42And I know you're going to wait to the last possible minute.
00:16:45But if Brad Cox says, Zoe, I need an answer now, who are you going to ride in the Kentucky
00:16:49Derby?
00:16:50Who is it?
00:16:51Well, I mean, ideally, you do need to wait to the last minute for all the reasons I just
00:16:56stated.
00:16:56But I think I'm going with the Arkansas Derby winner, honestly.
00:17:03That's me.
00:17:04Randy's not in an agreement.
00:17:05And, you know, we still have Go Rocket Ride to go forward in the Santa Anita Derby that
00:17:10he rides and was just a bang up second in the prep for that.
00:17:13But if I was Flavian right now, today, and it was next week and had to make a decision,
00:17:20most definitely, I would go with that horse.
00:17:22I mean, Kings Barn obviously looked really good in the Louisiana Derby, but he did have
00:17:27the benefit of an uncontested early lead and very soft fractions, which you know is not
00:17:32going to happen in the Kentucky Derby.
00:17:33Doesn't mean he doesn't have to have the lead.
00:17:35But when you're looking to me, if I was Flavian Pratt's agent, you got to look at all these
00:17:39things to try to make a decision.
00:17:41And I totally would pick right now Angel of Empire over Kings Barn.
00:17:45Go Rocket Ride.
00:17:46Pratt also rides in the Santa Anita Derby.
00:17:48We'll see how he runs.
00:17:49Like I was super impressed with Angel of Empire and the way he won.
00:17:54When you look at the breakdown of sectional times, 16th of a mile by 16th of a mile on
00:18:02the Equibase charts, what you'll see is that Forte ran faster down the backstretch at almost
00:18:12every point and early on the second turn than Angel of Empire did.
00:18:17And then when the fields roughly hit about the 3-8th pole to the 5-16th pole, it completely
00:18:24turned around.
00:18:25And Angel of Empire finished up substantially faster than Forte did in the Florida Derby.
00:18:32Now, when you look at data like this, especially as it pertains to the Arkansas Derby, there's
00:18:38one thing you always have to keep in mind.
00:18:40And a lot of people don't know this.
00:18:42The stretch run at Oaklawn Park is slightly downhill.
00:18:47So you're always going to have, all things being equal, slightly faster closing fractions
00:18:52at Oaklawn than you will at Gulfstream Park.
00:18:55But in this case, the difference was substantial between Angel of Empire and Forte.
00:19:01More than just the downhill stretch would influence.
00:19:04So that's why right now, between the two, I prefer Angel of Empire for the Kentucky
00:19:12Derby over Forte.
00:19:14And there's another part of that as well.
00:19:16Forte, in his numbers, looks like he has not moved forward from his two-year-old form.
00:19:24It looks like he's kind of keeping on the same level, right, where Angel of Empire continues
00:19:29to improve with every race.
00:19:31And I think he's got still more improvement left in him when they stretch him out to a
00:19:35mile and a quarter, given his running style and the way he finished in Arkansas when they
00:19:40get to the Kentucky Derby.
00:19:41I thought it was an outstanding race.
00:19:42And you can also make the case that the field that he beat in Arkansas with Reincarnate,
00:19:48the winner, I guess it was the Shamstakes, Rocket Can, who was second to Forte in the
00:19:53Holy Bowl, Red Root One, who had had a couple of really nice stretch runs, that the Arkansas
00:19:58Derby field was deeper than the Florida Derby field.
00:20:01And Angel of Empire made it look pretty bad.
00:20:04Gus, we're never getting Todd Pletcher on here again.
00:20:06We're trying to steal his jockey off of Kingsbarns.
00:20:09We don't like Forte.
00:20:11I'm like, the chances of getting Todd Pletcher on here again are going to be slim enough.
00:20:15I'm sorry, Todd.
00:20:16And I hope your horse is, like, bucking and kicking in the shed row today.
00:20:21Personally, way too often.
00:20:24When we say that we like horse A over horse B, a trainer of horse B will sometimes be
00:20:29like, you personally insulted them because it's handicapping.
00:20:33It has nothing to do with the, you know, the people.
00:20:36Yeah, knowing Todd Pletcher, I don't think he's going to get to, he's not a man that
00:20:39gets bent out of shape about too many things.
00:20:41So I think he'll take this in stride.
00:20:43So the other big story at Oakland over the weekend.
00:20:45Now, I've had the thankless job of doing the TDN's Kentucky Oats countdown.
00:20:50And I've been writing this damn thing since January.
00:20:53And I'm just dying for somebody to do something, to get excited about it, to make it clear,
00:20:57number one, it finally happened.
00:20:59Wet paint.
00:21:00She was knocking on the door.
00:21:02She ran really strong race in the fantasy.
00:21:05Again, we're going to hear from Brad Cox a little bit later.
00:21:07Paul thinks it was her first ever race on a fast dirt track, which is just, I don't
00:21:12think that was something she had to prove, but it's just kind of an interesting footnote
00:21:15to the race.
00:21:16We'll see what happens this weekend, particularly in the Ashland, where Wonder Wheel, we'll
00:21:21see if she can bounce back from her defeat to the immortal dreaming of snow in the Suncoast
00:21:27stakes way back in February at Tampa Bay Downs.
00:21:30But Randy, I finally found my number one.
00:21:32It took me till April 1st to find the thing.
00:21:35I got one finally.
00:21:36Wet paint.
00:21:37She's number one.
00:21:38Oh, she looked really good.
00:21:39She looked really good in the fantasy and kind of like Angel of Empire from the Cox
00:21:42barn.
00:21:43She's looking a little bit better every time she runs, right?
00:21:46I mean, I guess there was some question of her going into the fantasy simply because
00:21:52her two most recent races with the same running style way back in the back in a huge stretch
00:21:57were on sloppy racing surfaces.
00:21:58And yes, you know, slop favors speed more than it favors to come from behind her, and
00:22:03she won anyway.
00:22:04But there was always that little nagging question.
00:22:06Would she be as good on a fast track as she was on a wet track?
00:22:09And she certainly answered that question in the fantasy.
00:22:12She's not poetry in motion, right?
00:22:17She swings out pretty badly with her left front.
00:22:20She's got a paddling action.
00:22:22You know, it doesn't look smooth at all when you watch her run down the lane until you
00:22:27look at how fast she's going in relation to the horses around her.
00:22:30Then she looks a whole lot better, right?
00:22:33Yeah, she's terrific.
00:22:34She was just...
00:22:36I enjoyed watching that race.
00:22:38It was just poetry in motion for me.
00:22:41I don't care how she moves.
00:22:42She moves a lot quicker than the rest of them.
00:22:44So wet paint, definitely moving forward.
00:22:48Unless, you know, we have a monster come out of the Santanita Oaks this weekend, and it's
00:22:52proven to be a pretty good field.
00:22:55So, Randy, you're Mr. Hot Springs.
00:22:56And, you know, it's not a new story, but it's still something to me that's so remarkable
00:23:01in this day and age, you know, not to pick on poor aqueduct, but will there be 2000 people
00:23:07there for the Wood Memorial on Saturday?
00:23:09I'd set the over-under at 2000, might bet the under on that.
00:23:13And, you know, we have these pockets of racing where people turn out, Del Mar, Saratoga,
00:23:18et cetera.
00:23:19But Oakland Park, how do they keep doing this?
00:23:2265,000 people at the Arkansas Derby.
00:23:27And they showed the picture of the apron I saw somewhere.
00:23:30You would have thought it was 1939 based on, you know, the mass of humanity there.
00:23:37And, you know, hey, they deserve all the credit in the world.
00:23:40They do a great job.
00:23:41But, you know, what is it about this?
00:23:43They get good attendance throughout the meet.
00:23:45But how is this phenomenon existing in a day and age where nobody goes to the racetrack
00:23:50anymore or seemingly nobody goes to the racetrack anymore?
00:23:52Yeah, it is remarkable.
00:23:54There are.
00:23:55Yeah, I was born and raised there.
00:23:56And it's been this way for a long time.
00:23:59Right.
00:23:59I mean, back in the I remember back in the late 1970s, early 1980s, The New York Times
00:24:06sent Steve Crist to Oakland to report on the Oakland phenomenon.
00:24:10Sports Illustrated sent Bill Leggett to Oakland Park to report on the Oakland phenomenon.
00:24:14And it's still going strong.
00:24:16I mean, the crowds are, believe it or not, are not as high now as they used to be in
00:24:23the mid-1980s.
00:24:24But when you can get 65,000 people at the track on Arkansas Derby Day in 2023, compared
00:24:31to, you know, what even Santa Anita is going to get for the Santa Anita Derby, it is pretty
00:24:36remarkable.
00:24:36I think there's a couple of main reasons for it, among others.
00:24:41Number one is that for decades now, when you go back to the 70s, there was no competition
00:24:49for Oakland Park in the geographic area around Hot Springs.
00:24:54You'd have to go all the way south to New Orleans, all the way west to El Paso, all
00:24:58the way east maybe to Latonia, which was running then, that's what it was called, north to
00:25:02Chicago.
00:25:03There's this huge gap in the middle of the country before simulcasting, when if you wanted
00:25:08to bet on the horses, you had to go to Oakland Park.
00:25:12And Texas, the oil boom was big, and all the Texas oil men wanted to gamble.
00:25:18And it was just a flock to Oakland Park.
00:25:21And they became accustomed to coming to Hot Springs to go to the races and had a good
00:25:26time coming to Oakland.
00:25:28I think you're still seeing remnants of that.
00:25:34On track, it's fun to go to the races in Hot Springs and people really like it.
00:25:38You know, I'll put it this way.
00:25:40It really is the only game in town.
00:25:41I know Gary Stevens spent a few winters there.
00:25:44His first winter there as a jocks agent, it was like he was a Hall of Famer once more
00:25:51in the prime of his riding, because Gary couldn't go anywhere without signing autographs
00:25:56and just had an absolutely amazing time.
00:25:59So it truly is the only game in town.
00:26:02People live, breathe, and eat and sleep horse racing in Arkansas.
00:26:08Spending a couple of winters there, I can attest to the fact it is the only game in
00:26:12town.
00:26:13Yeah, terrific job by everybody involved.
00:26:16Hey, let's find out what's going on at Santa Anita.
00:26:18Zoe Katman's weekly segment, First Things First.
00:26:30From Saudi Dubai to Santa Anita, it seems like the Japanese horses are everywhere.
00:26:37Mandarin Hero is the first one to run in the Santa Anita Derby.
00:26:41I'm going to find out just how good he is.
00:26:48Tell me about the work.
00:26:55Well, the train I want is just nice and easy and stretch out.
00:26:58I'm trying to not go too fast.
00:27:00It's kind of like a 53, 55.
00:27:02That's the Japanese style.
00:27:03And he's feeling like OK and just handling well.
00:27:07On Thursday, you're going to breeze him out the gate?
00:27:10Yeah, from the gate.
00:27:11He's like a Japanese style.
00:27:13I would say maybe a little slow at the beginning.
00:27:15And we'll check how good from the gate and just try to get the hustle and try to stay on the
00:27:22race.
00:27:23How exciting is it for you to ride the first Japanese horse to ever run in the Santa Anita
00:27:28Derby?
00:27:28Really proud of the opportunity.
00:27:32Especially the Derby, it's going to be a little bit small field.
00:27:36In Japan, it's going to be always like 12, 14, 15 horses.
00:27:40So the horse should be more feeling like easy and comfortable from the race.
00:27:45Yeah, less horses, less traffic.
00:27:47Yeah.
00:27:48Easier for you, right?
00:27:48Yeah.
00:27:51Good luck.
00:27:54He already worked 53 and 3.
00:27:57No track records broken, but he will go on Thursday and break out of the gate.
00:28:02I'm liking what I see from Mandarin Hero.
00:28:04Cool, calm and collected.
00:28:07So join us this weekend at Santa Anita Park.
00:28:14A new post time on Saturday and Sunday will be 12 p.m.
00:28:18And bring your own shoes and join in the Derby Day 5K.
00:28:22We'll watch some of the best horses compete in the Santa Anita Derby and the Santa Anita Oaks.
00:28:28Horseplayers will love the mandatory pick six payout, which is expected to exceed
00:28:32three million dollars.
00:28:33And this weekend is just not for the grownups.
00:28:36Bring the kids for the spring carnival and Sunday's Easter egg hunt.
00:28:41The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association,
00:28:45the PHBA.
00:28:46And guess who is a Pennsylvania bred?
00:28:48That's right.
00:28:49Angel of Empire, the Arkansas Derby winner,
00:28:52who now is second on the points list for the Kentucky Derby, only to forte with 154 points.
00:28:58And what is it about the Arkansas Derby and Pennsylvania bred?
00:29:02It's been 19 years since Smarty Jones won the Arkansas Derby as well.
00:29:07Perhaps the best known Pennsylvania bred of all time.
00:29:11Angel of Empire was bred by Forgotten Land Investment Incorporated and Black Diamond
00:29:16Equine Corporation in Pennsylvania.
00:29:20Good things happen when you breed in Pennsylvania.
00:29:22For more information, visit www.pabred.com.
00:29:27Here in Pennsylvania, we're proud of our breeding program, the best in North America.
00:29:32But we're also proud to be leaders in this industry.
00:29:35The PA Horse Breeders Association is funding cutting edge research at PenVet to detect
00:29:40gene doping in thoroughbreds.
00:29:42And we endorsed the SAFE Act to help protect the most vulnerable horses.
00:29:47Plus, we're pleased to support the aftercare programs set up by our horseman's groups.
00:29:51Just a few of the reasons why you should join us in Pennsylvania,
00:29:55the premier place to breed and race.
00:30:00What makes Woodford special is the attention to detail.
00:30:05Everyone on the team is doing their job.
00:30:07They're well qualified.
00:30:09They show up to work and they work hard and they care about the horse.
00:30:12And I think that's a reflection on John Gleason's program.
00:30:17He gives me good information.
00:30:19He always, he has a very good understanding of the horse's well-being, where they're at
00:30:24physically and mentally.
00:30:27In equine nutrition, there's a triangle, management, genetics, and nutrition.
00:30:32And John's criteria to accomplish that is at the highest pinnacle.
00:30:40I started breaking quarter horses for people when I was 15.
00:30:43You know, people send me quarter horses to break.
00:30:45That's all I've done.
00:30:46You know, I don't hunt.
00:30:47I don't fish.
00:30:48I focus on training the horse.
00:30:49I think about training horses on eating dinner, laying in bed before you go to sleep.
00:30:54If you roll over in the middle of the night, I think about a horse.
00:30:56And as you know, it's all consuming.
00:30:57And I think to be successful, it has to be.
00:31:03The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Woodford Thoroughbreds,
00:31:07a 1,000-acre world-class facility in Reddick, Florida.
00:31:11Breeding and selling their own stock, as well as offering breaking and
00:31:14training services to outside clients.
00:31:17Discover the Woodford edge.
00:31:19Over the weekend, Sunday Shoes became the fifth Woodford bred horse to become
00:31:24a black-type winner when she won the Serena Songstakes at Turfway on Saturday.
00:31:29The Wesley Ward trainee was a $500,000 Keeneland September yearling
00:31:34and is now two-for-two in her racing career.
00:31:39The fastest horse of the week is presented by the Fast Stallions at Windstar Farms,
00:31:44such as this week's featured stallion, who has a pedigree
00:31:48that is all the rage right now.
00:31:50More on that in a minute.
00:31:52The fastest horse of the week, Straight No Chaser, shipped from Santa Anita to Oaklawn
00:31:57for a $125,000 allowance race Saturday that he dominated by seven and a quarter lengths.
00:32:03Six furlongs, 109.05.
00:32:05A buyer's speed figure, 101.
00:32:08The four-year-old son of Spicester is owned by My Racehorse, trained by Dan Blacker.
00:32:12Previously at Santa Anita, he had made a run at Teba at the quarter pole of the Malibu
00:32:17and then finished third in the Palos Verdes.
00:32:20He has a promising colt, and Straight No Chaser is the fastest horse of the week.
00:32:25And by the way, Straight No Chaser is also out of Margarita Friday,
00:32:29and I have to hangover Saturday and sober on Sunday.
00:32:33Now, it's yo time.
00:32:36The Windstar Stallion of the week, Yoshida.
00:32:39Way back in 2015, Windstar's Elliot Walden went to Japan on a mission to bring
00:32:43Sunday Silence blood back to America.
00:32:46He returned with Yoshida, the son of Hearts Cry, grandson of Sunday Silence,
00:32:51who went on to the U.S. to win grade ones on dirt and turf,
00:32:54made $2.5 million with five triple-digit buyers, and oh yeah,
00:32:58he beat Horse of the Year Bricks and Mortar twice.
00:33:01Now, Yoshida's first two-year-olds are led by a $180,000 filly who breezed 10 flat at OBS.
00:33:09You can get in on that Sunday Silence blood that's dominating internationally.
00:33:13It's yo time.
00:33:14Yoshida stands for just $10,000 at Windstar.
00:33:21The Green Group is an accounting and tax consulting advisory firm
00:33:24specializing in the thoroughbred industry with over 500 clients in the horse business
00:33:29and proven strategies to save you on your taxes.
00:33:32Learn more about how the Green Group can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:33:38Here's our first repeat Green Group guest of the week for 2023,
00:33:43which shows you how caught Brad Cox has been.
00:33:45We talked to him earlier in the year.
00:33:47Have to have him back on again,
00:33:49especially after the Arkansas Derby where Angel of Empire was a very impressive win,
00:33:53giving the Brad Cox stable another big feather in its cap on the road to the Kentucky Derby.
00:33:58Brad, welcome.
00:33:58I'm going to try to break some news here first.
00:34:01Angel of Empire, terrific race, written by Flavien Pratt.
00:34:04Flavien Pratt wins the Louisiana Derby for Todd Pletcher.
00:34:09He's got a dilemma.
00:34:10Have you heard from his agent?
00:34:11What's the deal for the Kentucky Derby?
00:34:14I know he's riding a horse in California this weekend that he likes a good bit.
00:34:19I spoke with his agent yesterday.
00:34:22Basically, we'll get through this weekend's round of preps and probably after Easter,
00:34:28come Monday, we'll probably have to sort some things out and start getting the huddle
00:34:33and figure out some game plans in regards to the jockey situation for the Derby.
00:34:37Wasn't it Brad Cox who was quoted recently as saying that it's something like,
00:34:42you've never not been able to find a jockey to ride one of your horses or something like that?
00:34:47Yeah, yeah.
00:34:47Dave Grinning, we had a conversation.
00:34:50So yeah, no, listen, there's going to be a lot of, I think, you know, once again, I mean,
00:34:54there's some, these top guys, you know, owners, trainers want them on their horses and Flavien's
00:34:59obviously had success in the last few Derby preps, 100-point races.
00:35:06Ultimately, he's going to be the guy that makes the decision, not me.
00:35:08I can't twist his arm, but, you know, we'll see how things work out after this weekend.
00:35:12That was Go Rocket Ride you were referring to that he's riding in the Santa Nina Derby
00:35:16Saturday for Richard Mandela.
00:35:18So back to the Arkansas Derby.
00:35:21Angel of Empire took a big step forward from the Smarty Jones,
00:35:26the second place finish to the Risen Star at a mile and an eighth.
00:35:29Then another big step forward really in the numbers and visually into the Arkansas Derby.
00:35:36How encouraged are you by his forward development and by the distance capability
00:35:43now with a mile and a quarter of the Kentucky Derby coming up?
00:35:47I think he's capable of winning the race.
00:35:50I mean, I think he showed that on Saturday.
00:35:52I think, you know, I think based on figures, it was a little bit of a question mark,
00:35:56but I think he answered a lot of questions and he stepped up big time on Saturday.
00:36:00And honestly, I saw him Sunday morning.
00:36:02He looked good.
00:36:03I left Oakland on Sunday and I saw him this morning at Churchill.
00:36:07He arrived early.
00:36:07We got him out of break time.
00:36:09Daylight went over him really, really well.
00:36:11And I love the way he pranced up the road or trotted up the road, I should say,
00:36:14and how he physically looks.
00:36:16So I feel pretty confident that we're going to see, you know, listen, we got a lot of work to do.
00:36:21We've got three works, but I'm very excited about what he was able to accomplish on Saturday.
00:36:27And I do think he does need to take another step forward based on figures.
00:36:30I think he's capable of doing he'll, he'll let us know in a few weeks,
00:36:33but I'm happy with what I saw physically from him out of the race.
00:36:37Brad, the thing that I loved about his run was his final eighth of the mile.
00:36:41It was the fastest of any prep thus far.
00:36:45And I think his last race was the second fastest.
00:36:48How encouraged are you by that?
00:36:50Especially after watching how the Florida Derby took place and the last eighth of a mile there
00:36:57between a mage and Forte.
00:36:59Two totally different racetracks.
00:37:01So I don't know if you can really compare them.
00:37:04Obviously, Forte is a champion and is the deserving favorite in the Kentucky Derby
00:37:10and has done nothing wrong.
00:37:11So listen, we have to somehow close the gap.
00:37:15We have to get better.
00:37:16And we may have to have Forte stump his toe in order to beat him.
00:37:20But 20-horse field, it's a demanding, challenging race, bottom line.
00:37:28And if you make the field, that's why you go.
00:37:30So many things can happen.
00:37:31We saw that last year.
00:37:33You don't mind that bird was an example of, you know, long shots winning the race.
00:37:36That may not necessarily be the best horse,
00:37:39but they have the trip or they have the racing, so-called racing luck on that day.
00:37:44So, you know, look, very happy with where this horse is.
00:37:48And I don't really think you can compare those races
00:37:50just based off the configuration of the track and the layout.
00:37:54Brad, he's a $70,000 yearling.
00:37:56Two of his first three starts were at Indiana Grand.
00:37:59Do you look back at him now and consider him an overachiever?
00:38:02Yes, and not because I started him in Indiana.
00:38:04He was a Pennsylvania bred.
00:38:06And at that time, we were running at Ellis Park,
00:38:08and he missed out on a good bit of money not being a Kentucky bred.
00:38:11So we do that.
00:38:12We'll ship these horses to Indiana sometimes if, you know, it's close to home.
00:38:16But, you know, we liked him a lot first time out.
00:38:19I was at Saratoga the day one and expected him to run well, and he did.
00:38:23And, you know, honestly, I'd be the first to admit I made a mistake with this horse.
00:38:27I entered him in a race at Parks.
00:38:29It was, I think, a seven-eighths of a mile.
00:38:34It was a stallion PA bred race.
00:38:37Well, I didn't realize it was a stallion race.
00:38:38I actually entered the horse.
00:38:41Parks took the entry and called me an hour later and said,
00:38:43hey, this horse can't run.
00:38:46He's not a stallion, you know, by a Pennsylvania accredited sire.
00:38:51And I was like, oh, well, I didn't realize that.
00:38:54So I was like, man, he's ready to run.
00:38:56I've got him, you know, ready to go.
00:38:59So I was like, you know, look,
00:39:00Kentucky Downs has this race for horses that were sold at Keeneland.
00:39:05$250,000.
00:39:06I was like, I don't know if you like the turf, but $250,000 reasons to try.
00:39:10Took a shot.
00:39:11He hated it.
00:39:13And got him back on the dirt and obviously he's performed very well.
00:39:18So a lot of people have mentioned in the past, Brad, about how the Arkansas Derby
00:39:22in some aspects is a nice dressed rehearsal for the Kentucky Derby.
00:39:26Oftentimes, it's the biggest crowd a three-year-old has run before to that point.
00:39:33Breeders' Cup maybe can have a lot of people as well, but Oaklawn's got people in the infield.
00:39:37When you saddle in the infield, it can be a little unnerving to some horses.
00:39:42Uh, how do you feel about that Angel of Empire having gone through that and then run so well
00:39:49as he gets ready to head to a zoo in Louisville?
00:39:53It only gives you confidence moving forward.
00:39:54Obviously, we'll school him Derby week a time or two, but it does give you confidence.
00:39:58And I said to Jason Looch from, you know, All Ball Family Racing, I towed him in the paddock.
00:40:03I said, this is the type of horse right here that will handle the Kentucky Derby.
00:40:08He just stands there, you know, to be saddled.
00:40:12He walked out onto the grass once we saddle and we took his halter and shank off.
00:40:17And, you know, he presented himself really well.
00:40:19He was on his toes, but he wasn't getting hot.
00:40:21He was feeling good.
00:40:23He continued to do that once he got to the pony, but not over the top.
00:40:27So, you know, I think he's the type of horse that can definitely handle the crowd and the
00:40:31atmosphere.
00:40:33Let's talk about Wet Pain.
00:40:35She's undefeated on dirt, how she handled things, how her progression has been.
00:40:40And does she give you a heart attack when she's running?
00:40:42Because she is super black.
00:40:44You can't even see her.
00:40:46Yeah, she's, you know, she really has.
00:40:51It's funny because we started her on the grass and we liked her first time.
00:40:54And then we run her in Indiana and her second start on the mud.
00:40:58Well, it ended up being muddy.
00:41:00But yeah, I mean, she came from nowhere that day in Indiana.
00:41:04She just doesn't have any early speed.
00:41:05And it's her.
00:41:06And Flavian came back the other day.
00:41:09And he's obviously rode her in her last three starts, but he came back the other day.
00:41:12She has a turn of foot like a grass horse.
00:41:14I said, well, that's where we tried it.
00:41:16We tried the turn, obviously.
00:41:19But she does have a tremendous turn of foot.
00:41:21I did feel very, very confident that she would handle a fast track just based off how her
00:41:27works have actually gotten better at Oakland throughout the winter.
00:41:30Her first work back from the Martha Washington.
00:41:33It was OK.
00:41:34It was by herself.
00:41:35It was actually like a half and 52.
00:41:36And I was like, oh, wow.
00:41:38Brought her back, breezed her the next week.
00:41:40She breezed lights out.
00:41:41And her three works leading up, or maybe it's two, leading up to the fantasy this weekend
00:41:46were really, really good.
00:41:47So we had confidence that she would handle a dry track.
00:41:51Brad, now that we're on to the subject of your three-year-old fillies, why don't we
00:41:54touch briefly upon two others that are coming up in major races?
00:41:58You have Punchbowl Friday in the Ashland Stakes at Keeneland.
00:42:01I've heard that you are very high on her, even though she's lightly raced.
00:42:06And I also want to ask you about Botanical, who has also looked terrific.
00:42:09But the question is, is she just a synthetic surface horse?
00:42:13Your take on both those two.
00:42:15Punchbowl, very talented filly.
00:42:16We are throwing a lot at her a short period of time.
00:42:20I ran her back quick off breaking her maiden.
00:42:22She did come from off the pace to break her maiden.
00:42:24So it gave me a little bit more confidence and made me think maybe it didn't take as
00:42:28much out of her once we stretched her.
00:42:31Her last race, you know, listen, she kind of got pressed the whole way, but she responded
00:42:36well, gouted out well, thought it was a solid group of fillies.
00:42:41And her three works since have been very, very good.
00:42:44We just shipped her to Keeneland.
00:42:46She settled in fine.
00:42:47So I'm optimistic that with a good trip, she'll be hopefully a Greybone winner after Friday.
00:42:51We'll see how it goes.
00:42:52So once again, we are throwing a lot at her in a short period of time, but she's taking
00:42:56it.
00:42:56Botanical, look, she worked pretty well on the dirt last summer and fall leading up to
00:43:05her debut.
00:43:06She obviously had some success.
00:43:07Well, she was second at Keeneland on the turf and then, you know, had a great winter, bottom
00:43:14line, at Turfway.
00:43:17To answer your question, I'll probably know more in a couple of weeks.
00:43:19She is at Churchill.
00:43:20She is training.
00:43:21She handles the dirt great, you know, the mornings in her gallops.
00:43:24But, you know, we're going to start doing a little bit more.
00:43:26She's going to have her first work scheduled for Friday, as long as the weather holds off.
00:43:32But, you know, we'll know more in a couple of weeks.
00:43:34I think we'll get a pretty good line on if she's going to transfer over to the dirt based
00:43:38off her works there at Churchill.
00:43:40And then also this weekend, Brad, we've got the Wood Memorial at Aqueduct in the blue
00:43:44grass, obviously.
00:43:45Keeneland, I haven't seen the entries yet, but you're expected to run hit show and slip
00:43:51Mahoney in the wood.
00:43:53Is that still on target there?
00:43:55OK, let's let's talk about those two first hit show coming off a five and a half length
00:44:00win in the in the Withers.
00:44:02But when you see rankings and when you hear people talking about the best, the very best
00:44:06three year olds in the country, you don't hear his name come up that often.
00:44:10Is he maybe not getting the credit he deserves, in your opinion?
00:44:15Well, I don't know.
00:44:18We'll find out Saturday, bottom line.
00:44:20I'm hopeful they'll be talking about him after Saturday, and I think they will.
00:44:23He's a good colt.
00:44:23He really is.
00:44:24He's proven at a mile and an eighth already.
00:44:27He's proven at Aqueduct, you know, the West.
00:44:30We're good with going back up there.
00:44:31We brought him back down to the fairgrounds to train, to have all of our options in play
00:44:37in regards to the Louisiana Derby, Arkansas Derby, even the bluegrass.
00:44:41I actually sent him up to Keeneland.
00:44:42I sent him with verifying.
00:44:44It was kind of a midway point for him.
00:44:46He stayed there a few days.
00:44:47He breezed.
00:44:48He looked great, phenomenal out of the work.
00:44:50And we put him on a van Monday morning and he settled in at Belmont.
00:44:54He's been through this before in regards to the whole
00:44:57being at Belmont, shipping over to Aqueduct.
00:45:00He handled it well.
00:45:00He's a smart horse.
00:45:01And I think he's a very good colt.
00:45:04And what did you make of Slip Mahoney's interesting trip last time out in the Gulf?
00:45:09Yeah, he's obviously got to get out of the gate.
00:45:11And it will be his first run around two turns.
00:45:12And I do think he's going to be better around two turns.
00:45:15So I expect him to move forward as well.
00:45:17So I really like our hand we have going into the wood, both horses.
00:45:22And talk to us about the bluegrass and give me some winners this weekend.
00:45:27I'm looking to bet some winners in Keeneland.
00:45:31I'm hoping verifying is one of them.
00:45:32I mean, he's, you know, he's a good colt.
00:45:35He really is.
00:45:36He ran big in his three-year debut at Oakland.
00:45:38I thought his last race, you know, he was he was
00:45:43he just kind of lost a little position, I think, from the three-eighths of the quarter.
00:45:46I thought he was set in a good spot.
00:45:48It's just like he just didn't really go forward there.
00:45:51In a key part of the race, and he went from laying third or fourth
00:45:54and ended up like eighth at the eighth pole.
00:45:57And it's like, wow, he's retreating.
00:45:58And then he kind of re-rallied and got going again.
00:46:00So a little bit of an odd trip.
00:46:01I don't really know what to make of it.
00:46:03I'm hoping that he's better than that and he'll get a little better trip or,
00:46:08you know, maybe stay a little more focused or involved.
00:46:11I don't really know what to make of that Rebel trip.
00:46:14I know he's training well.
00:46:15He worked with Hitchel on Friday morning at Keeneland.
00:46:19They work very, very well together.
00:46:21So I expect him to run big.
00:46:23So Brad, if things fall right for you,
00:46:25you could win two grade ones in two days at Keeneland and the Ashland and the Bluegrass.
00:46:30Just in general, you know, what does Keeneland mean to you?
00:46:32How much you prioritize that meet?
00:46:34I mean, clearly it's in the same breath of Saratoga now as one of the great beats in U.S. racing.
00:46:39Yeah, there's no doubt.
00:46:39I mean, obviously, I'm from Kentucky.
00:46:41It means a tremendous amount to me.
00:46:43We try to come out and with some of our better horses
00:46:48and we point for the meet.
00:46:50But it is, it's, you know, it really, you know, listen,
00:46:55Turfway's really gotten good in the winter.
00:46:57But I mean, it's almost like it's the start of the spring, basically, for racing.
00:47:02It really kicks off the spring.
00:47:03I mean, obviously, you've got Chad and Todd play huge roles in that meet.
00:47:08They're two of the best there are.
00:47:09And they bring their best for that meet as well, along with Saratoga, like you said.
00:47:14So the spring and fall meet are extremely tough to win at.
00:47:17And we definitely try to be competitive in one of the players there, for sure.
00:47:21So to summarize here with your three-year-olds, you've got Angel of Empire and Jace's Road
00:47:27that already have, certainly Angel of Empire, but also Jace's Road,
00:47:30really already have enough points.
00:47:32You would think for Jace's Road to secure a spot in the derby,
00:47:35you're looking for points for verifying and more for Hitchoe and Slick Mahoney.
00:47:40Instant Coffee right now is number 22 on the list before the final round of
00:47:47preps.
00:47:48So it looks like, unless we see some dropouts, from a points perspective,
00:47:5332 points that he has might not be enough to get him into the derby field.
00:47:58Are you tempted at all, maybe, to bring him back into Lexington or something like that?
00:48:04I don't think so.
00:48:05I don't think we'll bring him back into Lexington.
00:48:08I think we would just take our time with him, maybe train him up to the derby, kind of see
00:48:12how it goes, and hopefully have a little bit of an idea a couple weeks leading up to it,
00:48:17or a week out, maybe if we'd have a shot of getting in.
00:48:23Listen, there's other great races, the Peter Pans.
00:48:26Listen, it's not the Kentucky Derby, but there are other options.
00:48:29There's the Peter Pan the week after the derby, and then there's also the Preakness just two
00:48:33weeks later.
00:48:33So we're still trying to develop the horse.
00:48:37It is unfortunate.
00:48:38I feel like a horse that's accomplished as much as he has with winning the race at Churchill
00:48:43and the LeComte, it almost makes you get to the point where you want to start waiting
00:48:52with these horses a little bit more.
00:48:55Listen, he's on the outside looking in.
00:48:57Obviously, the longer the derby road goes, the point races become more valuable.
00:49:06They tinkered with it a little bit.
00:49:07I was talking to someone the other day, some of these horses are picking up 20 points for
00:49:11running fourth in some of these preps.
00:49:13I'm not certain that's the right thing to do.
00:49:15But listen, it all plays itself out.
00:49:17It plays out.
00:49:20Brent, can we expect to see you run in any two-year-old races at Keeneland?
00:49:24Or are you...
00:49:25No.
00:49:27No, no, I told someone the other day, I've only run one two-year-old going four and a
00:49:31half at Keeneland.
00:49:33She was a good third.
00:49:35But yeah, it's not really our thing.
00:49:38We don't really get them cranked up that early.
00:49:40But we do have two-year-olds that are breezing already, but not quite ready to run.
00:49:44Well, some great insights from Brad Cox.
00:49:46He's got a busy weekend coming up with the Wood Memorial, the Bluegrass, also the Ashland
00:49:50on Friday at Keeneland.
00:49:51Brad, thanks so much for your time and continued success on the roads of the Kentucky Derby
00:49:55and Kentucky Oaks.
00:49:56Thanks for having me on.
00:49:58As our first repeat guest of the week, Brad Cox will receive another free one-hour tax
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00:51:16With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year-round, there's never
00:51:22been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in Kentucky.
00:51:27Purse money in Kentucky is at an all-time high, as is average purse per race, outpacing
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00:51:46The TD and Riders Room is brought to you by the Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders.
00:51:50Florida Derby winners are bred in Kentucky.
00:51:53Forte.
00:51:54Kentucky bread.
00:51:552022 champion two-year-old Colt, obviously solidified his position as the Derby favorite
00:52:00with that win in the Florida Derby.
00:52:01He's topping the road to the Kentucky Derby leaderboard.
00:52:05A Kentucky bread.
00:52:06Forte does it again.
00:52:07Kentucky breads.
00:52:08Breed them.
00:52:09Raise them.
00:52:09Race them.
00:52:10We all win.
00:52:12Well, it's the last round of Kentucky Derby preps coming up this week.
00:52:15The major ones.
00:52:16We still have the Lexington a little bit later, but we have the Bluegrass, the Santa Anita
00:52:20Derby, and the Wood Memorial.
00:52:22All right, Manny Moss, what time on NBC and what channel?
00:52:26It is NBC.
00:52:26I warned you last week.
00:52:29I had the channel.
00:52:30I was ready for the channel.
00:52:31I wasn't ready for the time, Bill.
00:52:32You threw another curveball at me.
00:52:34It's a two-hour show.
00:52:36We're showing the Shaker Town from Keeneland, right?
00:52:39The five and a half for long sprint, as well as the Bluegrass and the Santa Anita Derby.
00:52:46Time, TBD.
00:52:47I'll get back to you on that one.
00:52:49Okay.
00:52:50You can't say I didn't warn you, Manny.
00:52:53But anyways, there's some very interesting races, some interesting horses.
00:52:57The horse that we can look at the overall picture or look at each individual race, however
00:53:02you guys want to do it.
00:53:04I think the horse that I'm most interested in this weekend is Tappet Dreiss in the Bluegrass.
00:53:08I mean, obviously, practical move in the Santa Anita Derby is a solid favorite there.
00:53:14He's been doing everything right for Tim McDean.
00:53:16But going back to his Tampa Bay Derby, that was a race just like, again, like Forte in
00:53:21the Florida Derby.
00:53:22Didn't really know exactly what to make out of it.
00:53:25And I want to see him, I need to see him put in a big race in the Bluegrass, move forward
00:53:32and look like he's coming into the Kentucky Derby the right way, like he is improving
00:53:37and is going to be a top horse in there.
00:53:39If he runs his A race in there, he probably should win.
00:53:44What do you do with blazing sevens, though?
00:53:46Wins the champagne for Chad Brown last year and runs just awful in the Fountain of Youth
00:53:51in his three-year-old debut.
00:53:53Not like Chad to bring these horses back off terrible races like that without a long layoff,
00:53:57but he is bringing them back.
00:53:58So, and the Wood Memorial is, you know, kind of a race that has, unfortunately, it's kind
00:54:04of deserves its second grade two status.
00:54:08There hasn't been a Kentucky Derby winner to come out of the race since Funnyside in
00:54:122003.
00:54:13The last winner of the Wood Memorial to win the Kentucky Derby had to go all the way back
00:54:16to Fusaichi Pegasus in 2000.
00:54:20So, I think of the three races, that's the one that probably will have the less impact
00:54:25on the Derby.
00:54:26The hit show for Brad Cox looks pretty tough in there.
00:54:29But your overview of this weekend, Randy.
00:54:32Yeah, the Bluegrass, there's a lot of storylines in here from just a handicapping and a race
00:54:36perspective that I'm interested in.
00:54:38Can Tapitrice show a little bit more maturity than he did in the Tampa Bay Derby, where
00:54:42he had to be really ridden and look like he was going nowhere until suddenly deciding
00:54:47to run at the quarter bowl and looking really good coming from home?
00:54:49Is he going to be more professional?
00:54:51Was Verifying's bad race in the Rebel due to a sloppy racetrack?
00:54:55Is he going to bounce back and run to that earlier form?
00:54:57What happened to Blazing Sevens?
00:54:59Brad Cox, excuse me, Chad Brown says he didn't like the track at Gulfstream Park.
00:55:03He was beating 26 lengths, but he's giving him another chance here.
00:55:07Is Raze Kane, I mean, you know, what do you make of his Gotham?
00:55:10It looked visually very good, but, you know, it was a horribly muddy racetrack and it played
00:55:17toward horses that came from behind.
00:55:20We'll see about him.
00:55:21In the Wood, there's been not only no winner since Funnyside, if I'm not mistaken, I don't
00:55:26think there's been a second or third place finisher in the Kentucky Derby coming out
00:55:31of the Wood Memorial since 2003.
00:55:34It's in a horrible slump.
00:55:36And, you know, maybe Hit Show's good enough to take a step forward.
00:55:39To me, he's the solid favorite on paper with Brad Cox's other horse, Slip Mahoney, right
00:55:44behind him.
00:55:46I'll be interested to see if they can take a step forward, Zoe.
00:55:49Yeah, it's going to be a 12-horse field, so it'll be a good race to watch.
00:55:53I'm not sure we're going to see the Derby winner come out of the Wood Memorial.
00:55:59Shadow Dragon, to me, could be interesting.
00:56:01I mean, you could literally, in my opinion, throw a dart at the Wood Memorial and you
00:56:06could get the winner.
00:56:07It'll be a very good betting race for those of you wanting to bet on it.
00:56:10As far as the Santa Anita Derby, I think that's going to be a terrific race.
00:56:15We're going to see Practical Move coming in there.
00:56:18We see Go Rocket Ride coming in there, and there are several others.
00:56:22I mean, if you could just pick the winner right now without it being Practical Move,
00:56:27who are you going for?
00:56:28All right, does anybody give the Japanese horse, Mander and Hiro, a chance, considering
00:56:32what these Japanese horses have been doing?
00:56:34Now, I don't know much about Japanese racing.
00:56:36My understanding is he hasn't really been performing on the A-Circuit.
00:56:39Correct.
00:56:40He's more of the B-Circuit type horse.
00:56:43That would lead me to believe that he's in over his head.
00:56:45Randy, you were nodding about that.
00:56:46Yeah, the A-Circuit tracks are the JRA tracks, the Japanese Racing Association.
00:56:51The B-Circuit tracks is the NAR circuit, National Association of Racing.
00:56:56And if you go back and you watch the video, like I did, of Mander and Hiro's recent races,
00:57:02yeah, he looked okay.
00:57:04But if this Japanese horse kicks butt in the Santa Anita Derby, then I can tell you one
00:57:11guy that's going to be all over Dermis Sotogake when we get to Kentucky.
00:57:14I promise you that.
00:57:17Zoe, to answer your question, Go Rocket Ride would be the horse, I think, if Practical
00:57:21Move, if you would cross Practical Move off the list.
00:57:25Okay, so you've got Go Rocket Ride, you've got National Treasure.
00:57:29Looks like he's most likely going to run.
00:57:31Obviously, we're recording this on Wednesday morning.
00:57:34Skinner, nobody likes Skinner?
00:57:36I mean, he's a rapidly improving sort going in there.
00:57:40I mean, can he clunk along for a piece of it?
00:57:43He could do that, but can he beat Practical Move?
00:57:45I think that's the other story.
00:57:47I mean, I didn't see enough out of him to think he's going to make up that difference
00:57:51between the San Felipe and the Santa Anita Derby, but an interesting horse.
00:57:54And to correct the record on the Wood Memorial, right?
00:57:56Since Funnyside won the Derby in 2003, the Wood Memorial has produced 40 horses that
00:58:03have gone on to run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:58:05No firsts, no seconds.
00:58:08One third, Tacitus was moved up by DQ and maximum security was taken down.
00:58:14Tacitus was moved up from fourth to third in 2019.
00:58:17And that's the only horse that's finished one, two, three in the last 18 runnings of
00:58:22the Wood Memorial coming into the Kentucky Derby.
00:58:24That's my file, Zoe.
00:58:26All paper.
00:58:27You love this, I know.
00:58:29Yeah, you're giving me a headache right there.
00:58:33So we got Faser coming in there.
00:58:35She's four for four.
00:58:36Tell me no lies.
00:58:37Clearly unhinged for me coming in for Michael McCarthy is the one that nobody's talking
00:58:43about watching her work.
00:58:44I watched her school the other day.
00:58:46God, she is beautiful.
00:58:48She's in there, Princess Bettina.
00:58:50Window shopping just broke her maiden by 12 for Dick Mandela.
00:58:54Van Agaza, who won a two horse race, she might be in there as well.
00:58:58It's actually shaping up to be a really good race.
00:59:01Well, Zoe was talking about the Sandinita Oaks.
00:59:03Let's talk about the Ashland on Friday.
00:59:05Entries have been drawn for that, so we know the field.
00:59:07To me, the story is Wonder Wheel.
00:59:08Is she going to bounce back and be the old Wonder Wheel of last year?
00:59:11We'll have to find out.
00:59:13But it's a very interesting race.
00:59:15Julia Shining, who ran that same race, the Suncoast Stakes, and was just OK.
00:59:20And then Punchbowl, who Brad Cox has, that looks like she's an up-and-comer.
00:59:25I would think that, especially if Wonder Wheel runs a big race and looks like the Wonder
00:59:31Wheel of last year, that would vaulter over Wet Paint, I would think, to be the Kentucky
00:59:36Oaks favorite.
00:59:37But it would take nothing less than that, as Wet Paint is looking very solid right now.
00:59:41But all eyes will be on the Ashland Friday at Cambridge.
00:59:44Punchbowl for me.
00:59:46I think I loved Punchbowl's last race for Oaklawn Park.
00:59:50You know, Cox has already got Wet Paint, but I think Punchbowl might be as good as
00:59:54Wet Paint, we'll see, in the Ashland.
00:59:56But, you know, Julia Shining, Pride of the Nile coming in from California, Wonder Wheel,
01:00:01I still think Punchbowl and Flavia and Pratt's the worst to beat, in my opinion.
01:00:05I'll take Julia Shining and get Top back on the show next week.
01:00:14The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:00:17And guys, how about an XBTV Workout of the Week?
01:00:21And it's almost like five or six for the price of one as we pick up Practical Moves scene
01:00:27working here.
01:00:28Now, he's on the inside with the blue pad with the white trim.
01:00:32And he actually sets off with no horses around him and is quickly taken over by one Laver
01:00:39there in the red cap, riding one for John Sadler, another one of John Sadler's.
01:00:43And I think that's a Mark Glatt on the outside.
01:00:45Can you just imagine what Tim Yaktin is thinking right about now, Randy?
01:00:49Yeah, there are.
01:00:50And there's going to be another horse that joins him in the stretch as well.
01:00:53There are races that fill at Santa Anita with fewer horses than this.
01:00:57So this was supposed to be, correct me if I'm wrong, Zoe, this was supposed to be a
01:01:01solo workout by Practical Move?
01:01:03No company?
01:01:04Yeah, absolutely.
01:01:05A solo workout.
01:01:06He set off on his own and the pair of Sadlers came up behind him.
01:01:10And I think they were all going five furlongs.
01:01:12And what you're seeing here is pretty much a carbon copy of what happened in the prep
01:01:17leading up to the Santa Anita Derby.
01:01:19Sitting in the pocket, I will say he's a bit more relaxed than he was in the race.
01:01:23There are six horses there.
01:01:24So I guess what people want to know, if they're handicapping the race, does this matter?
01:01:28Is it good?
01:01:29Is it bad?
01:01:30What do you think?
01:01:31It's not what Tim Yaktin wanted specifically, but you can see he's still in hand.
01:01:37And if you watch this work in its entirety, all the way to the 7.8 pole,
01:01:41he gallops out in front of each and every horse, which I think is key.
01:01:46Don't just chop the work off at the end.
01:01:48Watch the gallop out all the way around.
01:01:50And he does tank the horses at the end of the work.
01:01:53Not exactly what Tim Yaktin was expecting, but nonetheless, I thought that was a good work.
01:01:58He's not a flashy worker in the morning, Practical Move.
01:02:01So while it's not ideal, that's good enough for me.
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01:04:03This week's Remy Block cartoon runs every Friday and the TDN is in.
01:04:06It's kind of a different wrinkle on harrowing the track.
01:04:09Take a look at it.
01:04:10It's very interesting.
01:04:11All right.
01:04:11So that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:04:13Hope you enjoyed it.
01:04:14I want to thank our green group guest of the week, Brad Cox, my co-host Zoe Cabin and Randy Moss
01:04:20and also our producer Katie Petruniak.
01:04:23She's our assistant producer.
01:04:25Oh, there's there's Lucy.
01:04:27Yeah, I was going to get to Lucy.
01:04:28I was going to thank her.
01:04:30Our producer, mean Bill, wondered if you were actually alive.
01:04:36Lucy tells me, by the way, you walk it around, Lucy.
01:04:39Lucy tells her it's four to six for NBC, by the way.
01:04:42All right.
01:04:43Four to six on NBC.
01:04:44And last but not least, our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Leo LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:04:49Once again, that's a wrap.
01:04:50Thanks for tuning us in.
01:04:51We'll be back next week on the TDN Writers Room podcast.