Our Stories: An Interview With Mystika Silverberg - Episode 176 Branham Research - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast  Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/branham  John invites Mystika Silverberg, A former member of a New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) church, Mystika Silverberg, to share her escape from the NAR. Mystika, a licensed mental health clinician and street preacher from Upstate New York, discusses her involvement in the NAR movement and the challenges she faced. She describes how she was drawn to the movement, believing it to be the true representation of the church. Mystika recounts how she was identified as an evangelist by a church leader and how this recognition made her feel valued and significant. She explains that her involvement in the movement led her to become deeply involved in deliverance ministry, where she dealt with people believed to be demon-possessed.  Mystika also discusses the fear-based environment of the NAR church, where members were constantly on guard against demons and witchcraft. She describes bizarre and unsettling incidents, such as a church leader manifesting a "python spirit" and the ensuing chaotic deliverance session. Despite the support and recognition she received, Mystika eventually began to question the teachings and practices of the NAR movement. Her growing doubts, combined with prayer and the support of concerned friends, helped her break free from the church. Mystika emphasizes the importance of personal Bible study and understanding scripture to avoid being misled by false teachings.  00:00 Introduction 01:12 Mystika's Background and Entry into the NAR 04:05 Description of the Church and its Beliefs 06:08 Seven Mountain Mandate and Church Structure 07:32 Mystika's Role and Experiences in the Church 09:07 Encountering Deliverance Ministry 12:06 Gender Roles in the Church 14:15 Mystika's Recognition as an Evangelist 18:07 Changes and Challenges within the NAR 23:32 Importance of Prayer and Community Support 26:23 Understanding Deliverance Ministry 31:03 Impact on Children and Family Dynamics 39:01 Networking and Influence within the NAR 47:53 Leaving the NAR and the Consequences 57:01 Absurd and Disturbing Experiences 1:00:07 Reflections and Advice for Others  ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00:00You

00:00:30Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research podcast

00:00:36I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham historical research at William dash Branham org and with me

00:00:44I have my very special guest Mystica Silverberg former member of the NAR

00:00:51Mystica it's so good to have you on today. We've been chatting offline off and on now for how long has it been a couple weeks

00:00:58I guess and you have quite a story to tell about your experience in the NAR and

00:01:04I'm very excited to get into this and let other people listen to it

00:01:08So maybe it'd be a good idea if you were just to take a few minutes and tell everyone a little bit about yourself

00:01:14Well, thank you so much for having me. I

00:01:17Have been praying for this for quite some time to be able to share my story

00:01:21Um, but it's not easy to do. It's definitely not easy to do. I am nervous

00:01:28So I'm letting you know just like you asked guest. I'm a bit nervous, but I'm gonna try to relax

00:01:35Yeah

00:01:37Just thanks for having me on. I do have quite a story. It seems like

00:01:42It's so big so much has happened

00:01:46So I really appreciate you having me so you can help me to hone in on

00:01:51Specific details and whatever might help the audience a little bit about myself. I am a mom of three. I

00:01:59Live in upstate New York born and raised in upstate, New York, and I am a licensed mental health clinician and

00:02:07I love and feel called to evangelism. So

00:02:12Really street preaching would be what I feel called to do

00:02:17Awesome. Well, there's no need to be nervous. I'm just your average. Well, maybe below average guy

00:02:24Just having a you know casual conversation. So there's no need to be nervous about this. We are

00:02:31You know as as I've explained before we began recording

00:02:35We're starting to tie the links between the New Apostolic Reformation and some of its predecessors the latter rain ministry

00:02:43How that developed from Pentecostal ism, etc

00:02:46And I'm learning that there's just so many different varieties. Are you able to give any details maybe without mentioning names?

00:02:53but details of the style of church that you were in that the type of the flavor of

00:03:00The NAR that you were in

00:03:02Sure

00:03:05So the church I will say is local I'm in a

00:03:09Suburb of Syracuse, New York, and so this is a local church probably about 15 minutes from me

00:03:18I

00:03:19Don't think I'm afraid to share

00:03:22But I have friends that are still in this church and I am sad for them

00:03:27I am scared for them and I I just don't want to I don't want to hurt anybody

00:03:33So I won't share the name of it yet

00:03:37But what type of NAR, you know, I didn't even know what NAR was

00:03:41I didn't even know I was in an NAR church. I did not know I was in a cult

00:03:46I thought I was in the best church around

00:03:50So when you say what kind of NAR church, I'm not sure what that means

00:03:56I just know in general what New Apostolic Reformation looks like

00:04:02So I'm learning this as we go but the NAR is this wide variety, it's like a Heinz 57 religion almost you've got

00:04:10You know everything from on the extreme end

00:04:13You've got the Christian nationalists and Christian identity folk some of them, you know

00:04:17network through the these apostolic networks that build the NAR framework all the way to the other side where you've got the

00:04:24I don't know the Hollywood style lights cameras action

00:04:27Mega churches where they're driving the the fancy Cadillacs all the way down to some of the Pentecostal sects

00:04:34Which are still in that same, you know, maybe not the same exact network, but they're all networked together

00:04:40through this

00:04:42Apostolic network strategy. Are you able to give any details like was it a big mega church that you're in?

00:04:49Was it a small church? What what would you how would you describe the church that you were in?

00:04:54Okay now I know exactly what you mean

00:04:56So because I am actually learning all this in hindsight and trying to catch up on what all this stuff was

00:05:03Because or is because honestly I was looking for a simple church. I was looking for a normal church

00:05:10you know, I was looking just to be part of a church family and learn the Bible and you know, I

00:05:17Didn't know any of this even existed. I

00:05:20Actually belonged to a I would consider it a mega church in this area not super big

00:05:27but for this area, it's pretty well known and I attended that church for probably 11 or 12 years and

00:05:34Then I left I felt

00:05:38That I the Lord was calling me out of that church

00:05:41So I I prayed about it and I left and then I ended up at this church

00:05:47Which if this is what you're talking about they believe in the seven mountain mandate

00:05:54Which I didn't learn till way after I started going to it

00:05:59but yeah, they believe in the seven mountain mandate, so they they operate from a we're a

00:06:06Kingdom church we we focus on the kingdom of God and manifesting the kingdom and

00:06:12We're the elite squad that helps usher in the the return of Christ

00:06:18Although they never actually said those words, but that's what we were

00:06:22We were like an elite army as a matter of fact, there was one point where they gave us dog tags

00:06:28Wow a dog tag. So it sounds like you were in a military platoon almost, you know, that's the subject

00:06:34I've been working on my NAR book. I've been studying the

00:06:38Trail that leads from Christian identity and you know, actually before that it was British Israel ism

00:06:44so from British Israel ism all the way through the

00:06:47Pentecostal movement latter rain all the way up into charismatic and the NAR and

00:06:53I'm learning that all of this ties together

00:06:55It's not the NAR has really introduced nothing new but seven mountain mandate

00:07:01For example, you can go back through time through all of these various movements in the way that they were

00:07:07Weaponized religion was weaponized for political purposes and they had you know, like the government mountain

00:07:14So-called mountain I'll quote it

00:07:17In the seven mountain mandate. Well, they were doing the same thing, you know back in the 40s and it led to some

00:07:23Some criminal trials, which I won't get into in this episode

00:07:26But John McKinnon and I have been going through that in our weaponized religion

00:07:31series of the podcast and we've been you know, we started with the

00:07:36The birth of the Ku Klux Klan which they weren't necessarily Christian identity

00:07:41But they fused together with Christian identity and many of the key players in the Klan were

00:07:47working with key players in the Christian identity movement and then all of that exploded into

00:07:53The the government is being controlled by Satan and the demons are there and we need to you know back then they said we need

00:08:00To overthrow the government and you know, you consider what's happening today. It's it's a little scary

00:08:06Especially whenever you've got, you know groups that are giving people dog tags

00:08:10That's that's quite incredible. But I've like I said, I've been working on the new book and I last weekend actually I

00:08:18Got to the last page and so we've started the editing process and I think I can't remember when this

00:08:24When this episode comes out, but it might come out after the book is published actually

00:08:30We're getting very very close but you know when you consider all of this from you know

00:08:35from the early days of British Israelism where they come up with this false notion that the

00:08:42Nations of you know

00:08:43The North America and the British Isles were the descendants of the ten lost ten tribes of Israel all the way up to Christian

00:08:51Church is giving people dog tags. It's

00:08:54incredibly shocking

00:08:55Yes. Yes Wow and see this is

00:08:59Fascinating to me because I was never a person that believed in labels or

00:09:08The different or what's the word I'm looking for denominations I wanted to be part of a non-deny

00:09:15Non-denominational church. I didn't want to be associated as a Baptist a Pentecostal a Catholic

00:09:21I just wanted to be a believer in Christ that

00:09:25Believed in having a relationship with God, so I didn't that would be the last thing I would I

00:09:32Knew nothing of the sort, you know

00:09:34And so yet in listening to some of your teachings and some of the history looked into I would say that this

00:09:43Place, I'm not even sure that you would call it a church. Unfortunately would lean toward the latter rain type

00:09:51Like they would have no idea that that's what's come down the pike

00:09:56but that's what they would line up to in my humble opinion and

00:10:01Understanding what the latter rain movement was about and if you hear noise in the background

00:10:06That is my son playing a game way upstairs, but he's loud. So I

00:10:11Wish I was actually up there with him

00:10:12I one of the problems I had this weekend is I was you know

00:10:16Trying to edit my book and I got distracted because I got a new controller and I was playing the old

00:10:22Super Mario Brothers, so I I kept having to stop writing the book to play Super Mario Brothers

00:10:30Yeah, he's really really brilliant and he actually created his own game which he told me at 12 years old

00:10:38He's gonna be making money off of soon. I'm waiting for them

00:10:42Wow, so I'm incredibly curious about your being an evangelist in the movement, you know in the latter rain

00:10:49There were female prophets and apostles. They had the you know, the five-fold ministry thing and females were a part of it

00:10:57But there were groups that developed who were strongly opposed to any female

00:11:02Basically any female who wasn't chained to the stove if you really listen to what they were saying

00:11:07And I grew up in the Branham movement and that's the way it developed

00:11:11even though in the early years William Branham worked with females and female ministers and he even had a female minister in his church, which is

00:11:19Another story for another day, but as this developed into a more destructive cult he and many others

00:11:25They strongly began to condemn any female who had any active part in the ministry

00:11:31Not just even being a pastor like, you know, a lot of them go to that scripture about the the female

00:11:39Usurping authority, but they they took it a step farther. They wouldn't let the females do anything and so

00:11:44Female evangelist and the movement that I came out of would be taboo

00:11:48I'm curious in your experience, you know dealing with this and the new modernized version of this

00:11:54Have you ever encountered any any of that weirdness from being a female?

00:12:00No

00:12:01Actually quite the contrary

00:12:04in

00:12:05The reason I'm bringing up the previous church that in hindsight looks like heaven to me

00:12:11um

00:12:11I thought it was the worst church in the world once I came to the new church and

00:12:17they actually the new church talked about very badly talked about this other place and

00:12:23Said, you know, they didn't have an understanding of the five-fold ministry

00:12:26They didn't know what they were doing and you know, so it but in hindsight like I probably never should have left there

00:12:32but I I think I'll keep bringing that up because

00:12:38It shows how I was prime bait

00:12:42For the NAR even though they had they weren't trying to suck me in, you know

00:12:48I just fell into it

00:12:49I was a great candidate because I came out of a church. Like I said, that was rather large

00:12:55I was nobody. I attended this place for 11 years. They probably didn't know my first name

00:13:01They probably didn't know when I came. They probably didn't know when I left they I

00:13:07Never spoke at this church. They never told me what gifts I had or what I didn't they you know, it was like I

00:13:14Learned I got biblical knowledge and I think the pastor is amazing. They're still do but I wasn't

00:13:23Anyone special I wasn't anyone important and I came from a life of that

00:13:28so a life of

00:13:29Rejection a life of being misunderstood a life of being picked on and cast out and left out and all of that

00:13:35So you take that?

00:13:37little girl Mystica

00:13:38And then the one that went to this church where I was nobody and then I walk into this new church

00:13:44And this is going to answer your question. I promise then I walk into this new church

00:13:49And this isn't even when I started attending I had gone to this church to tell them about a tent revival that me and my

00:13:56friend were

00:13:58Putting on a big tent revival in Tully, New York

00:14:01I went around to different churches to tell them about it and invite them

00:14:06So I had just walked in just to tell them about this revival and I walked in and this

00:14:12so-called apostle

00:14:14Pointed me out immediately stopped everything he was doing and said that's an evangelist

00:14:21well, he had me at that's an evangelist because

00:14:26Even though I always believed I was a person of humility

00:14:31That spoke to every feel

00:14:34That was in me if that makes sense it hit every

00:14:37Thing that I needed as a broken person as a person of church her a person

00:14:43it just was like I'm a what and

00:14:47You know

00:14:48So he said that as an apostle I later found out he could call out your gifting

00:14:55And I was a not just a person with the gift of evangelism, but a fivefold

00:15:01Sit in the office of an evangelist and

00:15:05So that I can talk about that later so in that place

00:15:10Women were never told they could not be this or that there was no boundaries for women matter of fact

00:15:18I was never even taught that the scripture said that you know women are not to be pastors

00:15:25so it was very liberal with a

00:15:28Woman could be anything and actually so it was like too far to the other end of the spectrum if that makes sense

00:15:36so I

00:15:38Never thought of myself as an evangelist. I just

00:15:41Did what I did that was a function of who I was and that's what I love to do and felt drawn to do

00:15:47I didn't know that I had to have some official title, you know, and I didn't know that it was would even be wrong for me

00:15:54I didn't see myself teaching. I just saw myself sharing the gospel on the streets and leading helping lead people to salvation

00:16:02Well, and that's the way it should be, you know people pointing to themselves. They

00:16:07Ultimately, they're distracting from Jesus when they try to point to themselves and in doing so they

00:16:12Risk becoming a cult leader. I mean pure plain and simple

00:16:17So you were wanting to become an evangelist you're starting to find your calling

00:16:23Did you I'm curious was this the NAR group that were that were working with you and supporting you

00:16:30Did you get any support from this NAR Church?

00:16:33Yes

00:16:35Let me correct you though. I wasn't wanting to be an evangelist to me

00:16:40I just had that gift and I was just doing it came natural to me

00:16:44So I wasn't looking to be anything and I wasn't looking for any title. I didn't even know what five-fold ministry was

00:16:51I didn't even know what in the office of an evangelist was so

00:16:58It's very good that you want you had the desire to do that

00:17:01You know

00:17:02I we've talked beforehand before we got on this recording and I just I have no desire to be a minister or

00:17:09Evangelist, it's definitely not my calling

00:17:12But um, I you know, it's odd

00:17:14I grew up raised to believe that it was wrong for a female to do this and you know

00:17:19There's great women in the Bible. You've got Deborah. You've got Phoebe

00:17:23I'm sure you're aware of all the names

00:17:25But there are there are so many women that took an active role and it's it's very encouraging to see somebody

00:17:31Who felt that they had that calling?

00:17:35So I'm curious though

00:17:37having been brought into this like you were a lot of times when people get into that pyramid hierarchy of the

00:17:45You know the five-fold ministry where you got the Apostle at the top is the king

00:17:50As soon as they enter that hierarchy it starts to change them in various ways. Did you did you experience any?

00:17:57Any changes in yourself because of being brought into this?

00:18:01Yes, because like I said, I wasn't I wasn't looking I was just

00:18:06Living my life doing what I felt drawn to do and I was very content with that

00:18:10So I was already out on the streets. I was already boots on the ground

00:18:14You know, I was already

00:18:16In that capacity. I was constantly praying for people sharing the gospel with people. I was already doing that and

00:18:25Obviously this man knew that I had a gift of evangelism because I was doing a tent revival

00:18:33So, you know, that's not rocket science. Like it didn't take any like God telling him, you know, no that I was

00:18:41Operating in that gift

00:18:43So he capitalized on that when I walked in he made me stand out in the crowd

00:18:50helped me to feel very

00:18:52wanted and important and

00:18:56They just happen to need an evangelist to

00:19:00Create their fivefold. So they had a prophet a house prophet. They had the I

00:19:07Guess I'm a little unclear as if he was a pastor at the time or an apostle

00:19:14So we'll just say they had the apostle they had the prophet

00:19:18They they didn't have a teacher and they didn't have an evangelist yet

00:19:23Yeah

00:19:24I suppose that would change anybody's life and you know

00:19:27the more I dig into the way in which they these people have taken the

00:19:32The verse is completely out of context to make an authoritarian

00:19:37Hierarchy of the fivefold ministry where you've got the Apostle as a king and you know, the layers beneath him

00:19:43it's just so odd to me because

00:19:45You know the word apostle itself

00:19:48It just simply means a messenger who's carrying forth a message and he's going out. He's actually doing the work of a

00:19:55Postman a servant. He's he's a person who is

00:19:58Dedicating himself to going out among the people and spreading the gospel to lands that couldn't otherwise get it and

00:20:06You've got these guys who are building up ministries and plush mansions and you couldn't you couldn't force them to go out?

00:20:13So, you know, I'm it's odd to me how this has progressed in such a unusual way

00:20:20It was very convenient. He was interchangeable to whatever fit the bill and I

00:20:26Always knew him as

00:20:28Apostle so-and-so because he was also affiliated with I'm sure you're familiar with healing rooms

00:20:34We have a healing rooms branch here

00:20:37and he was also part of that and I went to that as a broken person a couple times for for prayer and

00:20:43He prophesied over me

00:20:46So it was like I was being groomed and I don't even know that he knew he was doing that and I don't even know

00:20:53That I knew I definitely didn't know

00:20:56but yeah, I

00:20:59Just I fit that bill and he

00:21:03I'm not sure what he was at the time, but I just know that recently before I left he made an announcement

00:21:09that was very very crucial and in my

00:21:14Understanding what this actually was and that he he was no longer a pastor

00:21:20He said this publicly in a service. He was now an apostle

00:21:24He was he was moving into the role that he already had the title for

00:21:30Okay, so he needed to get out of the pastoral role and we as a congregation

00:21:35We're making that difficult for him because he was always getting calls and always having to do the pastoral care and always having to do

00:21:43The counseling and he didn't want to have to do that anymore

00:21:46And so we really needed to let him be what he was supposed to be which was an apostle

00:21:53And so he was no longer gonna be in that role. So there was an official

00:21:57You know where he officially told us that so I guess he was always an apostle

00:22:03But just had to be a pastor. The whole idea is just so odd to me and foreign

00:22:09You know, like I said, I I have no calling or desire to be this but some people like, you know

00:22:15this gentleman he may or may not have already had his sights set on becoming an apostle because

00:22:22That's the king among the you know, all of the the peasants in the in the NAR the way they set this up

00:22:28But once you enter into that structure that pyramid structure of a theory authoritarian control

00:22:35You you know, so you became an evangelist they set you up where you're starting up that ladder and once people enter that

00:22:42It's very difficult for them to get out from what I understand

00:22:46How how are you able to overcome that that mentality of being in this?

00:22:51Did how did that affect you?

00:22:54God and the power of prayer

00:22:56I never understood the power of prayer as much as I do now as far as people praying for you

00:23:03Because there were people that really respected me and loved me

00:23:08But saw what I had slipped into which became a full-blown deliverance ministry, which I haven't talked about yet

00:23:16That was actually separate from the church

00:23:18but you know, they they knew what I was doing and I ended up with like a worldwide deliverance ministry and

00:23:27Had people not been praying for me and had I

00:23:32Not had the Holy Spirit in me working and helping me to get out of that

00:23:38I I don't know that I ever would because I

00:23:41really

00:23:43loved the feeling that I was getting the emotion and the feeling that I was getting and the

00:23:50notoriety that I was getting

00:23:52Even though I never

00:23:54It's just so crazy to me even saying that because gosh, I always thought I was a humble person

00:24:00I I actually never wanted to be a leader. I never wanted to be on

00:24:05Front Street. I never want to be on camera none of that

00:24:09But as this was going over the years and building and building it was like, okay

00:24:16Yeah, and then I started to be able to publicly speak and publicly teach and I was like wow

00:24:21I can do this and so but had it not been for prayer and it had it not been for the Holy Spirit

00:24:27I would still be in it today

00:24:28There were a few people that came to me once I started talking really differently on social media that were like

00:24:36Yeah, she's finally out of that and they contacted me and they're like

00:24:41So, let me tell you how I've been praying for you. And of course it just put me to tears. I

00:24:47Actually had someone mailed me a book right to my house the counterfeit kingdom

00:24:55It's a good so and they yeah

00:24:57yeah, and I and I I have to admit right here in front of everyone that I

00:25:03Only read half of it because that's what I do with every book I read half of it and

00:25:12Even if I love it, I only read half of it

00:25:15I've been doing so much research. I I've read that book

00:25:19I own a copy of it

00:25:20but the way that I read is I I bet the digital versions of it and a lot of times I'm reading just simply by

00:25:27Search queries and I think I've read that entire book but not in the order in which it was written

00:25:33But instead by by these search queries, right?

00:25:36you know, that's true for me too because I find myself going back to it when I need to and

00:25:43Reading parts that I didn't read before and it's nothing about the author or not being a good book

00:25:49It's just me, you know, I just never get through a whole book. It's just my mo

00:25:53So but yeah, there were people that were praying for me she probably was

00:25:58Ready and waiting to mail me that book and didn't know how many years it would take, you know, so I'm just

00:26:06Rejoicing every day that I'm out of that. So you mentioned deliverance ministry, which is fascinating to me

00:26:13There's so many different ideas of what this is and new inventions of what is a deliverance minister?

00:26:19And I'm curious for your group. What what does that mean to you when you say deliverance ministry?

00:26:25What does it mean to be a deliverance minister?

00:26:28There is no such thing actually

00:26:33And I was I was trying to find it before I got on this with you because I was gonna read them to you

00:26:39I'll send them to you another time, but there were a list of probably ten things

00:26:44the whole time I was in this and

00:26:47Doing deliverance ministry that were I would call it checks in my spirit like things that make you go

00:26:54Hmm type things that never sat well with me

00:26:57But I just kept pushing away and saying and don't worry about that. Mystica. Don't worry about that

00:27:03it'll make sense some other time like

00:27:06so even with the deliverance ministry that I got deep into I

00:27:11Would not allow anyone to call me a deliverance minister and they would try to force me into that and I would say I

00:27:20Have never seen a such thing in the Bible. So I just don't feel comfortable

00:27:24With you calling me a deliverance minister. What I was convinced of however, is that I was an evangelist and

00:27:33because I was an evangelist I was going to have to deal with demons with people being demonized and so

00:27:41I

00:27:42Reconciled that because it got coupled in with this NAR church

00:27:45The previous church had nothing to do with demons. No one in 11 years ever manifested a demon lo and behold in their service and

00:27:54I knew nothing about that. But when I got more involved on in street ministry

00:28:00I was dealing with people being demonized and then here I got connected with this church who fully believed and taught

00:28:08Specifically that a born-again believer could have indwelling demons

00:28:13so I'm like, aha, okay, I

00:28:16Need to do this because this is gonna be what I'm gonna encounter and it just kind of was the perfect storm is

00:28:24Like the small version of a long story of how that happened. And once I started doing that I

00:28:30Started to get a name for myself that I wasn't trying to get and it seemed to be working

00:28:37There so I thought and so the people thought

00:28:41All I was doing was just messing around with demons all the time

00:28:45I mean the demons were very real, but these people were converts

00:28:49I thought that they were converts and they thought they were converts

00:28:52So I I fully believed that a born-again believer could have demons in them

00:28:58And this church taught that so instead of the church correcting me on biblical

00:29:04Matters and saying wait, wait, mr. Good. Let's talk about this. This is not what the Bible said. They fully supported that and

00:29:13It just if that makes sense it just became a perfect storm and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger

00:29:18So yeah, I would pray for people

00:29:22Not as a deliverance minister because there was that part of me that knew the truth

00:29:27It was always the truth mixed with a lie and

00:29:30I knew the truth that a deliverance minister didn't exist and it always got under my skin when people called themselves that so like the

00:29:38Demon slayers out there on social media. I'd be like, why are they calling themselves a demon slayer?

00:29:43Why are they calling themselves a deliverance minister? That is not biblical

00:29:48But everything I was doing was I don't want to say I wasn't biblical because people are demonized

00:29:54But people need the gospel and so when you're translated according to Colossians 113

00:30:01When you are truly converted you're you are taken out of the kingdom of darkness and put into the kingdom of his son

00:30:07He is Christ is the deliverer

00:30:11So that is the deliverance right there

00:30:14And then what you what you deal with is your sin thereafter in your walk of salvation. I had this all twisted

00:30:19I thought that every bad behavior was a demon

00:30:23Yeah, so if we just get rid of the demon you'll be fine and this is completely

00:30:28Fostered and supported and amped up by the church that I was in

00:30:31I'm convinced that these deliverance ministries is no different than all of these churches

00:30:37They're just simply trying to create the idea of Ghostbusters in the church, but they don't get the cool gadgets

00:30:44It's so much more fun when people when it gives us something to do now you take me I'm a clinical

00:30:53Therapist I help people for a living. That's obviously a gift that God has given me, right?

00:30:58So I am by nature a help helpful person and I actually care about the gospel and I care about people coming to Christ

00:31:06What a mix if that gets the little

00:31:11Even a little bit twisted with the wrong understanding of Scripture. It can create a monster

00:31:17so yeah, I

00:31:19It was so fun, it was so

00:31:23You know John I gotta admit

00:31:25I'm a fighter like by nature. Like I like to fight I

00:31:30Went into the military. I don't know if you know that but I was actually in the army

00:31:35and

00:31:37That that is a part of me I think I have that aggressive side, you know

00:31:41we all have different parts of our personality and I think I have just

00:31:45An aggressive side and that said that aggressive side that I got to fight

00:31:50I got to fight demons every day and I think that's what people like

00:31:55Don't don't we by nature have well, you know, especially men have an aggressive side

00:32:01so these demon slayers get to aggressively go after demons every day and it like if that makes sense, that's how I

00:32:08That's how I understand it. Now. Is it?

00:32:11It gives us something to do it gives us something that's important

00:32:15It makes people feel like they're getting free and we're helping them to do that. So it just hits all those things

00:32:23Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism?

00:32:30transition through the latter rain

00:32:32Charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation

00:32:36You can learn this and more on William Branham historical research's website

00:32:41William dash Branham org on the books page of the website

00:32:45You can find the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley

00:32:50Stephen Montgomery John McKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book

00:32:58You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements

00:33:04If you want to contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top

00:33:10And as always be sure to LIKE and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching

00:33:17On behalf of William Branham historical research. We want to thank you for your support

00:33:22So I grew up in the Branham cult and we didn't have what we called the quote-unquote deliverance ministers

00:33:29But we had the same thing the ministers gave this very fantastic world where everything's a demon you could accidentally

00:33:36Catch a demon if you went outside and you know for the adults

00:33:40They're looking to these ministers to be the ones who can help them get rid of their accidentally caught

00:33:47Demon, which is so so odd when you think of it, but for a children for children that are in the movement

00:33:53this is problematic because they believe this stuff to levels beyond what the adults do in my opinion and the children really really

00:34:01Struggle because they fear these demons and oh my gosh

00:34:04If I go outside and do the wrong thing say the wrong thing

00:34:07I might actually get this demon that comes in my body and and then have to go through this through this horrific process of being

00:34:14Exercised or whatever they call it, but I'm curious for in your movement. Is it the same?

00:34:20How how does it affect the children and do they suffer in the same way

00:34:24Yes, that was a very well at the time

00:34:28I thought was so amazing that children got to be part of the real

00:34:33What real church looks like because I had the mindset for so long that the church had to stand up

00:34:40The church wasn't speaking up. The church was afraid of deliverance

00:34:43The church was afraid of demons and now I was finally part of a place that wasn't afraid of the gospel

00:34:50See, that's what that became. The new gospel was the gospel that had to do with

00:34:56Taking Satan down every day and and the Bible warns us of that like that's a different gospel

00:35:01But I I thought it was the real gospel. So

00:35:05yeah, we were

00:35:06you hit the nail on the head when you said fear-based because

00:35:10That's that was that's the underlying thing of these

00:35:15Organizations is fear. It's all based on fear and you're always afraid of getting a demon in you on you

00:35:22around you it's all it's

00:35:25Don Hill talks about this. She put it the best way when she said they make Satan sovereign. So

00:35:33They would never admit to that

00:35:34They look at you like you were crazy if you said you were making Satan sovereign

00:35:38But Satan was constantly talked about demons were constantly talked about now you have children in that mix

00:35:44Which at the time I thought what a beautiful thing

00:35:46How weird is that right that I thought that was good because I thought they were getting real life

00:35:52Real church and that that would help them to grow up to be able to be fighters for the gospel

00:35:58So I thought it was an amazing thing

00:36:00But there are many young children in this place and

00:36:06they are expected to

00:36:08Sit through hours and hours of that of letting what they would call God move letting the Holy Spirit move

00:36:17And whatever might happen so children are constantly seeing demons manifest in people and all of these things

00:36:25They

00:36:26Recently, I don't want to say they don't have a children's ministry because I know that was something that people kept saying

00:36:33Look, we can't have our children sitting through hours of this not because it's bad to expose them to but it's hard to keep them

00:36:41Occupied so they might have something going on for the children at this point. But yeah kids were involved and my children I

00:36:49I

00:36:51Used to bring them to the previous church that I attended which compared to this was completely normal

00:36:59okay, and

00:37:00There was actual children's ministry for them to attend there and they were actually learning a lot of biblical truth there

00:37:07and then I left and I went to this place and

00:37:12I tried to bring them and they were like

00:37:16mom

00:37:18What what is it looked like a circus to them? I mean

00:37:22You had full reign to worship

00:37:26However, you wanted and don't get me wrong

00:37:29You should be able to worship how you want

00:37:31But there was it was so to one end of the spectrum of being so liberal with there wasn't any rules and regulations

00:37:38So you could be just you could be laid at the altar

00:37:42you could be slain in the spirit and and literally laying in the middle of where they were the

00:37:49Pastor was teaching and he would just walk over you. You know, you could be

00:37:54Off-brain and in tongues for four hours

00:37:58You could be prophesied you you can do whatever you wanted to do

00:38:02So it was a circus is what it was. There was no rules or regulations, which at the time I thought was amazing

00:38:09And I thought that would be so good to expose my children to but they knew enough to say I

00:38:16Don't want to be any part of that and it was like I was upset

00:38:21But at the same time that part of truth that was in me knew they shouldn't be exposed to that if that makes any sense

00:38:27So I never forced it. So unfortunately

00:38:30They became unchurched for some years because I would just go without them

00:38:36So because of this new quote-unquote

00:38:39Gospel it took your children further away from the church

00:38:42and you know

00:38:43that's one of the real problems with this type of religion the family unit in most cases that

00:38:49that you see with these things the family unit gets totally destroyed and

00:38:53the sad part of it is

00:38:55The church doesn't really care about that so much. It's all about empowering the central figure and if they're a

00:39:02Church and the NAR network, it may not even be that church that has the central figure

00:39:06It may even be another church and it's all about empowering that central figure. It's you know, I mentioned earlier

00:39:13It's like Ghostbusters, but it's it's entirely worse than this

00:39:16it's as if you had entire networks of Ghostbusters and you've got you know, the

00:39:22Ghostbusters unit on the the East Coast in New York and then you've got the Wild West deliverance guy who's out west and all of these

00:39:30You know all of these collaboration between these NAR figures

00:39:35It's honestly that's the real power that the NAR holds over the churches this vast network. That's all

00:39:42interconnected and the transference of nonsense from one network to another and it's

00:39:48In the end, it's replacing sound theology

00:39:51They're just all of this nonsense goes through the network and the sound theology just gets overwritten

00:39:57Did you ever witness this were there ever like

00:40:01You know the church that you were in was it connected to other churches and did those other churches have deliverance ministers that?

00:40:08Might have influenced your church

00:40:10Yeah, I really love the way that you put that this networking thing site

00:40:14I never really thought about it that way, but you're right. It's such an integral part

00:40:18they almost can't survive without it and it just gets bigger and bigger because of that so

00:40:24Somewhere in the mix of all of this in the beginning when I was attending this this

00:40:30cult

00:40:32Is it okay for me to I feel wrong referring to it as that it just seems so harsh

00:40:37but yeah, it is the truth, so I

00:40:40still feel bad for calling it that but

00:40:44when I first started attending as

00:40:47a member

00:40:48they

00:40:49Didn't focus a whole lot at that time on deliverance and talking about

00:40:56Demons and how to deal with them. They were more focused on like latter rain stuff

00:41:01So ramping us up to be you know, ushering in the kingdom on earth and things like that

00:41:07I actually they could probably blame me for making more of an emphasis on deliverance

00:41:13Because here I was kind of doing my side thing

00:41:16With street ministry and and getting into deliverance and I sort of

00:41:22Pushed that but it wasn't hard because like it was the prime environment for it if that makes sense

00:41:27So I take responsibility for that where I kept saying, you know, we need to do more deliverance

00:41:33We need to talk about that more. And so I sort of pushed that I had met a man who became my mentor

00:41:43Just

00:41:45On Facebook, he's I I saw a post that I really thought was amazing and I ended up reaching out to him and just saying

00:41:52Hey

00:41:54You you know a lot about deliverance

00:41:56We at this church need to come up to that level a little bit more. We don't seem to understand that

00:42:03Do you think you could come?

00:42:05to this and he he was from

00:42:10LA

00:42:11he was from LA I believe and

00:42:14Do you think you could come here and teach us and he was like, yeah, and I was like, wow, that was easy

00:42:21I was like, this is how that works because like you said he wanted to network

00:42:26he was full-time ministry and needed to be able to get from place to place and

00:42:32So having someone that wanted him to come was always gonna be a yes

00:42:37And I thought that was because I had some great anointing to connect people

00:42:42But it was so easy. So he came and

00:42:48We would do what you call camps so

00:42:52Some of them would be hosted at this church. Some of them would be in a park

00:42:55Some of them would be at a house wherever we could get a camp together

00:42:59and I would sort of plan that event get people to come market it have him come and

00:43:07you know

00:43:09He would stay wherever and we would have these camps and we did these about every three months

00:43:15So he kind of kept that momentum coming. He'd make a real nice flyer

00:43:19I'd start giving out the flyer and he would come and again, sometimes they would be at the church

00:43:24sometimes they work but he formed a relationship and alliance with this church because I invited him to come so

00:43:33Yeah, he became a very important part of this for me because I really relied on his teachings his knowledge of the kingdom of darkness

00:43:42And the hierarchy of hell and his knowledge of what every demon

00:43:47did and how to get rid of every demon I really relied on him as

00:43:53The person to teach me those things, you know, and of course he would say he had these

00:43:59Amazing encounters I had never heard of before

00:44:03I don't mean to go on and on but if I may

00:44:07Share a little bit about these encounters that because this really

00:44:14Interested me and made me think that I wasn't on the level of other people and I needed to achieve that

00:44:21So I had to get to where I was having encounters and he would say, you know

00:44:25He flew over oceans to other countries and you know, God

00:44:32Told him to eat a

00:44:36Sailboat

00:44:37and he put the sailboat in his mouth and and then said now I'm gonna take you around the world and he ate it and

00:44:44What the sailboat tasted like I mean these crazy encounters that he had were so fascinating to me. And so I thought I

00:44:52Had this anointed man of God that actually would even give me the time of day to take me under his wing

00:45:00You haven't been anointed until you've eaten a sailboat. I

00:45:04Almost stopped myself if you could see the hesitation with saying that because I feel wrong for sharing that because it's such a like personal

00:45:13Encounter that this man had but I mean he publicly shared this plenty of times

00:45:18By hearing it back just sounds crazier and crazier every

00:45:24You know, I said it was like Ghostbusters, but it's actually more like Dungeons and Dragons

00:45:29And and that's the power of this NAR network. You've got people who are claiming these fantastic things, right?

00:45:36and then they become

00:45:39They're mysterious to the rest of it and the people who aren't connected directly to them and see how they actually are

00:45:45They become legends across the network and then that spreads throughout all of the other networks and they build this big

00:45:52this big unbelievable name for themselves and

00:45:55All they're doing is just playing an adult version of Dungeons and Dragons or Harry Potter or whatever it is, right?

00:46:02And you know, I again I want to take public

00:46:07responsibility because I

00:46:09Helped foster this again. I brought up deliverance ministry

00:46:15I

00:46:16Asked, you know, can I bring a possible so-and-so here and he's gonna teach us this. Yes, they said yes, but I pushed it

00:46:23Because you know what? It's

00:46:25Interesting, you know the gifts come without repentance

00:46:28We all have spiritual gifts and and I have this gift in me like

00:46:33the worldly version would be the gift of gab, you know, like I can I

00:46:39Can connect people I can talk my way through things. I can get you to bite, you know

00:46:45I can and it's not like I'm trying to take advantage of you, but it's just because I have that personality

00:46:52You know and that

00:46:54charismatic

00:46:55Side of me so it was easy for me to connect with people and then what happened was I created a monster

00:47:03Now I got him connected to all these other people in this region and he's never even stepped foot in Syracuse

00:47:10And now and to this day, you know, they they call him a son

00:47:15You know, I mean so now he's all connected to them and then he ended up being the person to turn me in to the church

00:47:23Even though I had already left to say she doesn't believe in modern-day apostles anymore

00:47:29She must not have the Holy Spirit and that's when they made a public

00:47:35Declaration at their church on a Sunday service where I was not there and they said that I need to be marked and avoided

00:47:44Because they had gotten a call from my mentor and they were already on to me and that just sealed the deal that I had

00:47:51gone rogue I

00:47:53Was to be avoided. So that's when things got

00:47:58Difficult for me because I lost friends I had people actually block me not talk to me think I was cuckoo for Coco Paws

00:48:05I mean really

00:48:07Because of that so so you went from being a ghostbuster to having the scarlet letter

00:48:13Exactly

00:48:16Only me

00:48:18I'm laughing because it's

00:48:20This whole thing is absurd. I think of all of these adults and they're playing all of these

00:48:26Fantasy kids games, you know, they're becoming Ghostbusters and Dungeons and Dragons Harry Potter and

00:48:31But I'm sure that was hard. It's really sad when you went through it, you know, these guys have the power

00:48:38Because they projected this power on the people that they can just rob you of your entire life and take it away

00:48:44And I'm certain that was hard to go through and it's enough to wake anybody up. It really is

00:48:49This is it, you know, it's not funny like Ghostbusters

00:48:53This would be like if Stephen King were to write a book about a church and you're the you're the person that's being affected in

00:48:59The book it's terrible

00:49:01But so if you could

00:49:04Considering that and knowing where you are today if you could go back in time and give yourself a warning about the NAR

00:49:11What would that warning be?

00:49:13Mystica is

00:49:15this stuff in the Bible

00:49:18Is it biblical because John I gotta admit I was I was sort of a lazy Christian

00:49:24I didn't want to read my own Bible

00:49:26I'd rather have you read the Bible for me and to me and you tell me what it means and if it makes sense

00:49:33I'll I'll bite I'll believe that because I wanted to do the hands-on stuff to me. That was the that was the schoolwork

00:49:40I didn't want to have to read the Bible and take the notes and really be a Berean of the word

00:49:46I'd rather be in the trenches and you just tell me what the Bible means. So had I just I

00:49:53I did read my Bible, but I didn't read it enough. I didn't study it and I didn't even know how to read it

00:49:59I was I

00:50:02You know just to go back a minute. I grew up in a half Jewish

00:50:09Half I guess I mean they believed in you know Christmas and things like that. It was very confusing

00:50:15I don't even want to say half Christian. I didn't have the foundation of the Bible. I didn't have the foundation of church

00:50:21I didn't even have people in my family. I could go to and ask questions about the Bible

00:50:26So I don't make I'm not using that as an excuse

00:50:29but again, that was just another reason why the perfect storm happened because of

00:50:34The past that I had I didn't have that foundation. So I just wish that I had said

00:50:42Mystica just

00:50:44Read the stuff for yourself and see if it's in the Bible

00:50:48And it's so crazy because these

00:50:50So-called churches they read the same Bible as you and I do and they have biblical backing for

00:50:58everything they say

00:51:00But they're reading it from an isogenical standpoint. So

00:51:07You you believe what they're saying because they say here's the scripture so the seven mountain mandate

00:51:12There's there's scripture for that. Don't ask me what it is

00:51:15I have it written down

00:51:16but there's there's a scripture that talks about that stuff and they just

00:51:20Expound on it and then they put themselves in it and make it all about them and it becomes

00:51:26That man centered and not God centered. So I I guess I just wish that I would have been a better

00:51:33Burian of the word

00:51:35Myself, and I think I would have picked up on this way before

00:51:40It happened

00:51:42I'm struggling so hard not to laugh through this episode. It's just

00:51:46it's so weird you think of these adults and they're playing Harry Potter and Ghostbusters and

00:51:51All of these weird things and I'm just I'm curious and fascinated all at the same time

00:51:57What was what was the weirdest thing that you saw as a Ghostbuster?

00:52:02I really don't want to admit this and this is another thing that I feel bad about because I genuinely love these people

00:52:09Every one of them. I genuinely love and have hope for their salvation. I'm not mad at any of them

00:52:17but the strangest thing happened right before I came out of this to

00:52:24Two strange things one of them was we would often have these

00:52:29extracurricular

00:52:30Classes where we would come and I know some churches have other evenings

00:52:36That they have church or days so that more people can come but this wasn't really other church services

00:52:42These were classes. He would usually call them prophetic classes and that would kind of get us in like ooh

00:52:49What's what's you know?

00:52:50Is he gonna prophesy are we gonna get a word and that was sort of pull us in and we'd have these prophetic

00:52:55classes and that was for the people that were really serious about church and you know, if you didn't attend it'd be like

00:53:02How can you be an up-and-coming leader you're not coming to this extra stuff so you would kind of get reprimanded so anyways, I

00:53:10Digress one of these particular

00:53:13Wednesdays, I think it was

00:53:15we came ready to have prophetic class and

00:53:19He says we're gonna do something a little different tonight. I

00:53:26The Lord has been speaking to me about something and we have to deal with it

00:53:31and

00:53:33He goes on to tell us that he believes that there is a witch I believe in the church

00:53:38there was always a witch someone was always a witch or multiple people were witches and

00:53:45this particular which had brought in a Python spirit and

00:53:50And I'm sorry if anyone ever

00:53:53That attends this place hears this and I'm not saying it word-for-word because it was also confusing that I couldn't keep track of it

00:54:00So this is the best way I can remember it

00:54:03and

00:54:04That something about the Python spirit and the Python spirit

00:54:09was bothering him as the leader and

00:54:13We needed the war and the spirit against this thing

00:54:17So we didn't get to know who the witch was, you know, we just had we could do the background work of warring

00:54:23So, of course, we were always ready to fight. We were always soldiers

00:54:27we got up and we started warring in the spirit, whatever that means and

00:54:32all of a sudden

00:54:35The leader pastor apostle, whatever he

00:54:40Started to to act like he was in distress now

00:54:43I didn't know that we were specifically praying for him and I'm not even sure he he was wanting that but he started to

00:54:51Act funny and he started to act like he was in physical distress and all of a sudden

00:54:57He fell on the floor like hard. We were like, oh my gosh our apostle

00:55:04is he okay and

00:55:06he starts to I don't know how else to describe it, but

00:55:11Take on the attributes of a snake

00:55:14and started

00:55:16Moving around like a snake

00:55:19I was trying to make sense of this now, of course here. I am the deliverance person and they're mystica

00:55:25You gotta pray for for so-and-so so I come over and i'm trying to help and all of a sudden he grabs

00:55:34my

00:55:34ankle

00:55:36Not like help me up mystica, but like i'm gonna get you mystica

00:55:44And I like

00:55:46Almost fall

00:55:48You know

00:55:49Everyone's in a frenzy

00:55:50And I almost fall and then there's another leader

00:55:54up-and-coming leader there and and and he grabs onto her ankle and now she's trying to get away and now this is just a

00:56:00crazy bizarre

00:56:04I don't know what to call it. Um deliverance session for our very own leader because he has a python

00:56:12and um

00:56:15It just got crazier after that so

00:56:18Yeah, but but I supposedly cast that thing out of him and I got a call the next day thanking me

00:56:26So you've got ghostbusters and harry potter and well, I don't know x-men and now you're introducing role-playing into all of this

00:56:33Which makes it it takes it to a whole new level

00:56:37More and more complicated and try going home and making sense of how your very own leader

00:56:43Manifested a python and actually tried to hurt you trying to make sense of that

00:56:50Yeah

00:56:52um

00:56:52The other thing that I wanted to say is something that stand out is kind of a crazy thing to do with deliverance

00:56:58Is the actual reason?

00:57:00That I left because it wasn't because I came to understand this place was nar

00:57:06It wasn't even because the leader manifested a demon. I still was committed to this tribe

00:57:13but

00:57:14There came a day where we were in church service on a sunday

00:57:19And there was a worship team. They did what you call prophetic worship

00:57:22I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but they believed in just moving in the spirit

00:57:26So they didn't have songs that were planned out. They would just worship

00:57:30prophetically and that was

00:57:32the best

00:57:33Way to worship prophetically

00:57:36And that got into some crazy things involving swords and flags and you name it

00:57:42What's going on? Okay

00:57:44um

00:57:46It's not funny. I don't mean to laugh. It's just so crazy

00:57:49and

00:57:50so

00:57:51the leader

00:57:53Would he he called us all up to the altar to step into the river?

00:57:58Of the holy spirit because god was there and we needed to step into the river and and be cleansed or

00:58:05Whatever we were getting in the river for so everyone headed up to the river at the altar

00:58:12and

00:58:13I even though I was a person that was sort of an up-and-coming leader and i'd be someone that would normally be praying for people

00:58:19I was coming to get mine whatever was in that river

00:58:22So I was headed up to the altar and all of a sudden as i'm walking up

00:58:27this

00:58:29Person who was I considered a good friend of mine and part of the ministry team comes sort of

00:58:36Charging at me just very quickly comes to me and says

00:58:39And there was all this music and I could barely hear and i'm pretty sure she says don't touch her and i'm like

00:58:46Don't touch her. Don't touch who?

00:58:48I'm like and then she disappears and i'm like what is going on and then it all made sense to me

00:58:54Her mother was there

00:58:57and

00:58:58she

00:58:59The one that approached me didn't want me to touch her mother

00:59:01She thought I was coming to lay hands on her mother and pray for her

00:59:04When I was just coming up to the altar like everyone else and she didn't want me to impart demons

00:59:09Into her mom. So that day she had it in her mind that I was a witch or I had demons as we always

00:59:15Did we always looked at each other sideways?

00:59:19Like who has the demons next who's the witch in the house? We were always paranoid and in fear

00:59:26That don't trust them

00:59:27They're probably the one with the demon so don't get it twisted mystica who's the deliverance minister

00:59:34She's probably a witch so she had it in her mind

00:59:37I was a witch didn't tell me thought I was going to impart them into her mom

00:59:40Came at me and that's when I was like I left

00:59:44I was very hurt. I left and I was like now i'm gonna wait and see if this gets dealt with

00:59:49And that's when everything started to unravel while I took this couple weeks off

00:59:55All I can attribute that to is god

00:59:59Because it all just and I started looking up things and that's when I found nar and i'm like

01:00:04What is that? And I was wow, it just all unraveled

01:00:08How did I know that we were going to end up this episode with wanda the good witch

01:00:14It's yeah, it's so absurd man

01:00:16It's okay for a children's game if we were playing a children's game

01:00:20This would be okay, but this is not a children's game. I feel awkward

01:00:25I feel awkward as an adult telling other adults that church is not supposed to be like a children's game

01:00:31What are you guys thinking?

01:00:34If I had known what dungeons and dragons was maybe that would have been my warning

01:00:38I would have been able to recognize it if I had known what harry potter was about and dungeons and dragons

01:00:44I might have been able to recognize the nar but

01:00:47I didn't know about that stuff

01:00:50So mystica's advice to everyone listening is go learn how to play dungeon

01:00:54I'm joking. Don't don't do that. But

01:00:57So as weird as this sounds as odd as this sounds this is commonplace

01:01:01this is spreading all throughout the world and these nar churches this these fantasy games and

01:01:08Anyway, i'm so glad that you came on to tell us

01:01:11about harry potter and wanda the good witch well, it's my pleasure and

01:01:17I can't believe how crazy it sounds as i'm

01:01:20Testifying to it, but that is that is the real story

01:01:24yeah, thank you for having me and thank you for taking the time to hear me out because

01:01:29I am in that process of being deprogrammed and coming out of and relearning and

01:01:37Losing relationships and i'm not looking for sympathy, but it's it's it's hard

01:01:42So this is rather therapeutic to be able to to talk about it and have someone understand it and recognize it for what it is

01:01:49So I appreciate you. Well, thank you. I'm certain that all of our listeners are going to be excited encouraged and

01:01:56Confused at all of this nar mess that we have

01:02:01As I mentioned earlier in the podcast i'm working on the new book

01:02:04it hopefully will be out by the time that this podcast airs if not shortly after I think we're targeting september 1st, but

01:02:11If you enjoy this and you want more information

01:02:14You can check us out on the web

01:02:16You can find us at william-branham.org

01:02:19And when it comes out for an overview of the dark side of the nar you can read weaponized religion from christian identity

01:02:26To the nar which will be available on amazon kindle and audible

01:02:41So

01:03:11You

01:03:36You

Our Stories: An Interview With Mystika Silverberg - Episode 176 Branham Research

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