Support the show:
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
John Collins and John McKinnon examine the intricate history of the Pentecostal movement and its ties to the New Apostolic Reformation. We explore how early Pentecostal leaders, such as Roy Davis and William Branham, utilized media and entertainment to build their religious platforms. They discuss Davis's efforts to merge his Pentecostal sect into a larger body of Pentecostals, his influence in laying the foundation for future movements, and the significant role of music in attracting followers. The conversation highlights Davis's controversial actions, including his criminal activities and manipulation of identities, and how these shaped the early Pentecostal landscape.
00:00 Introduction
01:33 Early Pentecostal Roots
05:34 Media and Music Influence
08:50 Legal Troubles and Migration
13:29 William Branham's Rise
18:50 Christian Identity Connections
24:55 Prison Sentence and Aftermath
31:10 Formation of Networks
36:20 Role of Music in Revival
42:30 Criminal Activities and White Supremacy
47:10 Branham's Leadership Transition
50:40 Post-Prison Activities
56:01 Conclusion
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
John Collins and John McKinnon examine the intricate history of the Pentecostal movement and its ties to the New Apostolic Reformation. We explore how early Pentecostal leaders, such as Roy Davis and William Branham, utilized media and entertainment to build their religious platforms. They discuss Davis's efforts to merge his Pentecostal sect into a larger body of Pentecostals, his influence in laying the foundation for future movements, and the significant role of music in attracting followers. The conversation highlights Davis's controversial actions, including his criminal activities and manipulation of identities, and how these shaped the early Pentecostal landscape.
00:00 Introduction
01:33 Early Pentecostal Roots
05:34 Media and Music Influence
08:50 Legal Troubles and Migration
13:29 William Branham's Rise
18:50 Christian Identity Connections
24:55 Prison Sentence and Aftermath
31:10 Formation of Networks
36:20 Role of Music in Revival
42:30 Criminal Activities and White Supremacy
47:10 Branham's Leadership Transition
50:40 Post-Prison Activities
56:01 Conclusion
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00You
00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research
00:35podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham
00:40Historical Research at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host,
00:45researcher, and friend, John McKinnon, the author of The Persuasive Preacher, The
00:50Gifted Prophet, and The Noble Politician. And together we're discussing
00:55weaponized religion, how Christian identity fused with early Christian
00:59fundamentalism and politics to form the foundation for the new Apostolic
01:05Reformation. John, it's good to be back and to be recording all things Davis, and
01:11though the audience may think otherwise, you and I did not plan this. Our color
01:15coordination, we apparently have the same exact taste in shirts, so it was not
01:23planned. I picked this shirt, but anyway, it's good to be back and to talk about
01:28this era, because for me, as a musician, this is just fascinating to think of the
01:35roots of how this grew, because Davis, we've talked about his Pentecostal
01:41attempt at, you know, he actually was somewhat successful in creating his own
01:45Pentecostal sect, of which William Branham was a bishop, and this is coming
01:52all during the years in which the, before the UPCI was formed, but you can
01:58clearly tell that it was with the intent to merge all of this into the big, larger
02:04body of Pentecostals. And we see some evidence of that as we go into the 40s,
02:09late 40s, but anyway, this, you know, it didn't take roots as far as he
02:17wanted, apparently, and he used his influence in media, which, if you think
02:23about what's happening with all of these megachurches and, you know, the
02:29Charismania, the NAR, all of these different movements, how they've leveraged
02:33entertainment to build their platforms, you can't say that Davis was the reason
02:38why they're doing it, but you can say that he definitely played a part in
02:42laying the foundation of what was to come.
02:44Darrell Bock Yeah, John, it's good to be back and recording
02:47again and following Davis' trail. You know, Davis was one of the, you know, people
02:55that started using music and entertainment to attract a crowd, and he
03:00did that wherever he went. You know, even from the earliest days, you know, we read
03:03when he got started, he was known as a singer. So he's always been very
03:08talented in that area, and, you know, it's not surprising that that's how, you
03:15know, the churches that are forming today under that umbrella of new NAR, they use
03:21music quite a bit. You know, that's one of the hooks, and people love
03:26music. They're attracted to music. You know, you can – I was watching some YouTube
03:29videos last night of somebody that plays the piano, and it just attracts a
03:35crowd everywhere you go. If they played in a mall or wherever, you know,
03:38people are just amazed at music. It just has an attraction. So it's very natural,
03:43and most people love to hear music and sing along and so forth. But Davis,
03:50back in Jeffersonville, you know, he had started, you know, his sect of
03:54Pentecostalism, the Pentecostal Baptist Church, and we have strong evidence he
04:00established many churches in the area, several churches in that area that was
04:05used and using that area as maybe a home base for a time. And then, you know,
04:10being under the pressure he was from the law and from the time he took Allie Lee
04:16in his home when he brought her from Chattanooga in 1930, you know, he got into
04:21trouble there, and there was just a big stigma over her living with him. You know,
04:26she was living with him since 1930, and here we are in 1933-34, and, you know,
04:33Branham had come to his own by that time and was able to handle, you know,
04:37multiple churches in the area, like Milltown Baptist and other churches that
04:44he would go around and minister to. So he was at the point in time that, and he
04:50had that 1933 baptismal service, the tent revival, so he got a good start and
04:54actually took over Davis' church when it burned in 1934, and they began to meet
05:01until they could, you know, build their own church later on in 1935-36, as we
05:06read and as the deeds show. But yeah, Branham was very well enabled to take
05:14over the church there, so Davis had no reason to stay. He had all the reasons in
05:18the world to leave, you know, for the legal reasons, being in trouble with the
05:22law and the stigma with living with Allie Lee that he could go, and the fact that
05:28the West was a fertile ground for him, so I believe his mind was set on the West,
05:33and he would just come back east from time to time to check on things, is what
05:36it seemed like to me.
05:37Dr. Darrell Bock Right, and one thing I want to bring up that's happening during
05:41this era, this is what tipped me off that this was a much larger operation than
05:46just a single church and Davis trying to hide out. He was establishing a
05:50Pentecostal cult, and in the year 1934, in May, there's an article that is
05:58from the Commercial Appeal that says Davis may move church seat, and this is
06:04the article that lists Davis as holding the national headquarters of the
06:10Pentecostal Baptist Church, and it says it may be moved from Jeffersonville,
06:14Indiana to Memphis, and there's a few things to note in here. National
06:19headquarters implies that there are, you know, different branches of this thing,
06:25and different locations having it, which we've identified, at least in Milltown.
06:30We have not yet identified all of them, because it's kind of scattered and
06:34unknown history, but he was the editor of the Pentecostal Baptist Witness, so the
06:40Pentecostal sect had created its own newsletter, which was common among all
06:45Pentecostal groups, well, many Pentecostal groups of the era, and he is
06:52nationally recognized. He's holding preaching every night, it's on the radio
06:56every morning at 1030 a.m., and the services begin at 745, so they were
07:05recognizing that this is a key figure in the religious world who may be moving
07:10his headquarters out of Jeffersonville to another area. It doesn't look like
07:16that happened, but had it happened, this would have put Branham much earlier than
07:22he became the head of this church. It would have put him the head at, you know,
07:26around 1934, because Branham was, at this point, he, from all appearances, was
07:31Davis's second-in-command in this Pentecostal sect, so it is significant.
07:37Now, some things happen later, which kind of derail all of Davis's plans, but we'll
07:44get into that a bit, but it looks like the first attempt would have been
07:48largely successful had Davis not been such a dastardly con artist.
07:55Yeah, if Davis had kept his nose clean, you know, he might have had quite a
08:00following with him and Branham teamed up together, but of course, you know, the way
08:05he was, they couldn't stay together. But we'll find eventually they come
08:09back together in just a few years, you know, from the time, you know, Branham took
08:12over the congregation in 1934 and became the head of the area there. It was
08:18only, you know, a few years later, you know, ten years later, probably, whenever
08:23they rejoined, and it's kind of interesting that they even, you know,
08:27rejoined together, as we found out in 1950 when he put the article in The Voice
08:33of Healing, and we'll get to that at some point. But, you know, Davis took his
08:38talents and his, I would say, his common-law wife, because she was, by this
08:42time, she was known as a common-law wife by legal standards.
08:47But music, you know, is very heavily used in the NAR, and I actually
08:54heard T.O. Osborne say one time, and of course he was a very big revivalist and
08:58very well known among the message ranks as well, but he said music is one of God's
09:04tricks. And, you know, I think it's not only God's tricks, but it's also the
09:09devil's trick. You know, music has a way of swaying people's opinions and, you
09:13know, minds and thoughts. So it's used in this industry of the NAR
09:19churches. You remember just recently the revival that was broke out in Asbury.
09:24What were they doing the whole time? They weren't preaching the Word, they were
09:27singing. You know, it was all about singing and worship, and, you know, people
09:32really get into that. And that's important, too, but it can't be the only
09:36thing. But music's used quite a bit, and of course it appeals to the people that
09:42like the rock concert type of atmosphere in church, and they've managed to be
09:47popular, you know, to get it to where it can be like people are used to in the
09:52world. So they gladly come to church, you know, because they experience the same
09:56thing. But Ally Lika Singh, she was a very talented singer. She and Davis was
10:02talented in singing, playing instruments, and in their advertisements as they
10:07started touring, they became nationally known, as you said, and they also were
10:12advertised as nationally known radio singers. So they were on the radio. He was
10:16spreading his sect in that way, and he started taking to the media quite a bit.
10:22But the West Coast, I believe, all the way from British Columbia, Canada, down to
10:27Oregon, because when Lindsey was out in Portland, Oregon at the time, and all the
10:32way to Los Angeles, there's real fertile ground for the propagation of Pentecost
10:36churches and Christian identity, and there was a lot of concentration of that
10:42thought out there in the West Coast. So Davis likely, you know, migrated out there
10:47because it was a real fertile ground for him to develop his sect. But Ally Lee
10:54had been living with him for about five years now, and he still pastored off as
10:58his daughter, you know, even though during this time, during their radio appearances
11:03or during their tour as the team called Jack and Granny. Another
11:09interesting thing, while Branham stayed back in Jeffersonville, you know, he
11:12pastored more than one church in the area. He wasn't only the pastor of the
11:16Branham Tabernacle, which was Davis's congregation, but he was also pastor of
11:20the Milltown Baptist Church nearly all the way to 1951, when he became nationally
11:26known, you know, after his tour to South Africa, he became so well known, I guess
11:30he had no longer had time to be called a pastor there, but I have it on tape where
11:34he was saying he was pastor on tape in 1951. And he found that he could sway
11:41audiences by this time, you know, he had come into his own, but he could stretch
11:46stories and just tell outright untruths or lies while being on the road, because
11:52people couldn't verify the story a lot of times, but we do find out that he gets
11:56caught on a few of these lies in the newspapers back home, because people
12:01are trying to check this out, you know, early on. But he did this just to boost
12:05people's beliefs in him as being a man of God with power and being able to, you
12:10know, being able to do miraculous things. And the early sermons, you know, if you
12:15go back to the 1947 sermons we have, and I'm sure there's much earlier sermons
12:19somewhere, maybe in the vault, that's not been released, but these have a lot of
12:24clues, and that's what I've been focusing on a lot is the early sermons, 1947. But
12:31he mentions in Faith is the Substance in 47, he said, I was at my church, the
12:36Milltown Baptist Church, where I went to hold a revival. So there's a
12:40statement that I was at my church, the Milltown Baptist Church, and he said,
12:45many of you have seen the little book called Jesus Christ, same yesterday, today, and
12:47forever. Well, that little book has been hid for a very long time. I think when I
12:52read that quote years ago, I wanted to find that book, because I wanted to read
12:55it, you know, I want to read all things Branham. So I look for it, it's been hid.
12:59You know, Voice of God didn't have it, and I'm so glad that in your work, John, that
13:04you were able to find a copy. I think it was published on the Internet at some
13:08point, so I was able to read it. And back then, I didn't read it with a discerning
13:12thought. You know, I was reading it under the auspices of the message, so I didn't
13:17really look at it critically. And it really contradicts his angel story and
13:23the start of his healing ministry by the dates in there, and by what he says, and
13:28how his healing ministry came to him. I mean, he says it came to him in the
13:311930s. And so that little booklet, of course, has to be hid, because the truth,
13:37you know, would come out, and we would be seeing something, a different side of
13:42this. But it's good that they've published it by now. But as he's talking
13:49here in this sermon, he says, you know, no one believes me. He said, no one even
13:54raised from the dead, they don't believe it. And he says, by the way, a man that
13:58laid in the morgue, pronounced dead by three doctors. I went in to where he was
14:03at. He's driving a Pennsylvania locomotive tonight, and they still don't
14:07believe. That's true. That is true. They won't believe. So what is he saying
14:11there? He said he went into a morgue, and a man was laying, you know, he could
14:15have been embalmed by that time, who knows. But he was pronounced dead by three
14:19doctors. And then he says he raised him from the dead. Now, that's pretty
14:24miraculous, and him making that claim while he was out in the field, just one
14:29way. But there is an article. It was in July 23, 1947. This is just after the
14:35sermon that he preached, where he said he raised somebody from the dead. But he
14:38was in Canada preaching, and also said the same thing. He was making these
14:41claims. But somebody from Winnipeg was asking about it, Ted Schrader, about the
14:48details of this. Can anybody, can you please wire the details of whether or
14:52not this is true? You know, what's the man's name, cause of death, name of
14:56morgue, when it happened? And they were trying to find the details of it. And
14:59the newspaper's right back, says, we don't know of any story like this that
15:03ever occurred. He says, we've been reporting the news for 75 years, and
15:08something of this magnitude would have surely been known, and we would have
15:13definitely reported on this. So it's pretty obvious that this was a made-up
15:18story. Now, the minister, he just got started out. Why would he be telling
15:23these big lies, starting out in his ministry? You know, it just shows you
15:27that, you know, he's out for some obvious reason to boost his own, you
15:32know, boost his own popularity, it sounds like.
15:35Darrell Bock Yeah, it does. You know, he's going around like the snake oil
15:40salesman in the old westerns, making these boisterous claims. And back then,
15:44people didn't have really any way to verify those claims. They just had to
15:48take the man at his word. And unlike the snake oil salesman, this is a man who
15:55is claiming to be a Christian, and so they were more likely to agree with
15:59whatever it was that he said. They thought, why would a Christian lie? And
16:04this turned into such a big deal. Another thing I want to focus on, you
16:09mentioned the cult had not originally published that article. It's interesting
16:16that I'm finding this is common among all cults. They like to conceal all of
16:20the critical information. And the pattern is, if they can hide it, they will. But
16:26when it becomes exposed, like you also said, somebody told me that they had
16:31started publishing this document now. It totally undermines the entire history
16:36of Branham. I mean, I grew up with this history. We all said that he started
16:42his ministry because an angel came in either 1947 or 1948. Well, here's a
16:47document from William Branham himself saying it was 1945 that his ministry
16:53began. And there is no angelic claim. It's a different, much like the raising
16:59from the dead story, it's a different fictional story that was used. And I've
17:04had this happen a few times with the Branham Organization. Something that has
17:08been concealed, as soon as I give it some attention, then magically it appears,
17:13and they start selling it. Or in the case of the Jim Jones, and somewhere you
17:21can go back in their history of their edits, and you can see this, but I began
17:25working with the Jonestown Foundation and discovered that there wasn't just one
17:30single instance of William Branham with Jim Jones. There was an entire
17:34campaign series. And somebody had misfiled the Jones episodes or the Jones
17:41sermons into a different year. So if you're looking through and you find Jim
17:46Jones in this one sermon, you say, oh, there's just one, and then you kind of
17:50discount it. But I've noticed that since I began working with the Jonestown
17:55Foundation and referenced the actual sermons that were in the wrong years that
18:01they were filed, now they're magically in the correct years. So, John, people
18:06like you and I have the way to correct history, and that's actually, that's
18:10powerful if you really think about it.
18:12Dr. John Greene Yeah, it really is. And I think the, I've heard it said, I've
18:17been watching another podcast, but the man there is talking about some history
18:21about a local hero that people, you know, just exalted up to a hero status,
18:28and he's finding out the truth of these things and bringing it out nowadays. And
18:31he said, the truth has no agenda. I thought about putting that behind me as
18:35well in a big letter. Truth has no agenda. And he's right. You know, when you
18:40just want to tell the truth, you have no reason otherwise, just tell the truth.
18:45And that's very important, I believe, what we're doing, because it's going to
18:50hopefully help people start critically thinking about these things because, you
18:55know, many people's never encountered this data, and it just contradicts
18:59everything in their mind, how they've been brainwashed into thinking some of
19:03these things are true when they're really not. So, it just takes a while to wake
19:07up sometimes. I'm hoping some of these things will wake people up.
19:11So, around 1936, you know, Roy then took Ali on the road with him to begin that
19:17singing ministry, and they called themselves Jack and Granny. And he was going
19:21back to the time where he called her Granny in his church, basically to hide
19:25her identity, because somebody named Granny, you think of an older lady. And
19:31also, she's not called by Ali Lee, because that would give her away,
19:35definitely. So, it was just a nickname, but it was a way for him to hide her
19:39identity, you know, after he got in trouble with the Mann Act and the arrests
19:42that he had, you know, he just definitely wanted to keep her on the low
19:46profile as long as he could. He began calling himself Jack, you know, and that
19:51was another alias that he used. He was known to use several aliases, but Jack
19:55became his new name, Jack Davis, the minister. That was, it prevented people
20:01from talking about him as he went through the country as Roy Davis, you
20:06know, because everybody was familiar with Roy Davis in Oklahoma and Texas,
20:10where he was from, and they had gotten to know his reputation. So, Jack became
20:15a new name for him. The people didn't know him. And it was just to hide his
20:19past, and so he called Ali his daughter. So, he was able to hide the fact that,
20:24you know, she was really his live-in wife, but he called her his daughter
20:27because of their obvious age differences. And it was eight years later,
20:32after this, in 1943, that she really became his wife as he went out west,
20:38because at that time he couldn't hide it any longer. They were kind of openly,
20:42you know, acting as husband and wife. So, he did some strange things, which we'll
20:45go into during that wedding, as far as about lying
20:50about their ages. But one of the first stops on the road
20:53was Oklahoma, and he knew some of the people there, actually, and they
20:56knew him. He was able to reconnect with them and
21:00begin that singing tour. And on the Maydale record in September
21:0510th, 1936, so we know he was out there then, it
21:09says, Jack and Granny of Radio Fame will sing in Maydale.
21:13And there was a reverend of the Nazarene Church, Pentecostal Church.
21:17The arrangements were made for Jack and Granny on Thursday and Friday nights,
21:21and the public was invited to hear the reverend and Jack and Granny.
21:26So, that was one article there. Then, on September
21:3017th, 1936, it says the guests, Jack and Granny,
21:35guests of Rotary Radio Artist Entertained Members of the Rotary Program.
21:40And so, they were singing around this area in Oklahoma.
21:44And it says, for 30 minutes, they delighted the club members with songs
21:48accompanied by guitar, piano, accordion, and the piano. So, it
21:52says, these entertainers are gifted artists in their line,
21:55furnished one of the most delightful entertainments that has been given
21:58to the club in months, many months. So, that was another article that was
22:02written. So, what stands out in this next article I'll mention is
22:07the fact that they reveal to the public they knew the true identities of Jack
22:11and Granny. So, when I found this, it was really, it
22:14was like a treasure to me, because, you know, you can make the
22:18argument, well, Jack and Granny, that's not Roy Davis and Ali Lee,
22:21because that's what the purpose was, to hide it. And so,
22:25people reading it today could tell you, oh, that's not who they are.
22:29But this was in the Daily Ardmorette, November 25th, 1936.
22:35It says, all churches to unite in Thanksgiving observance at the Methodist
22:38Church in Maydill, Oklahoma. And so, they were joined by,
22:43you know, the pastors and so forth. It says, in the evening, the party
22:47attended the Nazarene Revival in Ardmore, being conducted by Reverend
22:51Roy Davis and Daughter. And he says, remembered here as Jack
22:56and Granny. So, right there, the paper publishes the
22:59fact that they are Jack and Granny. But here he is using his real name
23:03again, Roy Davis, E. Davis, and Daughter. But he's still
23:06hiding the fact that Ali Lee is his secret wife at this time.
23:11And then there was another one conducting service at the Soldier's
23:16Home, that same reverend from the Nazarene Church.
23:20And this was at a Confederate home at Ardmore.
23:25And Roy E. Davis and Daughter, they will be remembered here
23:29to the citizens here as Jack and Granny. Again, they reveal their identities
23:33there. So, then finally, they publish their picture in the Big Pastor News on
23:37December 3rd, 1936. So, they were very busy in 1936.
23:41And they basically put their picture, Roy Davis and Ali Lee
23:46as Jack and Granny. And it's good that we have that picture there, because
23:49there's not very many pictures of Roy Davis around,
23:52and definitely not many of Ali Lee. Roy Davis is now traveling in 1937,
23:57holding revivals in Louisiana. This is in Bossier,
24:02Louisiana. And this is where it's announced that he's formally connected
24:06with the late John Roach Stratton in New York.
24:10And this is where he kind of stretches the truth by a whole lot,
24:14you know, just as we know they all do. He says he's given himself over to
24:18evangelism in the homeland and on foreign soil, and now conducting a
24:23revival in the Assembly of God church here in Bossier City. Then
24:28he said, along with the preaching, there's gospel radio singers of renown
24:32will give a performance. And, of course, that's Jack and Granny.
24:36And then it says he was three years editor-in-chief of the Pentecostal
24:40Baptist Witness. So, there's that article about the publication that
24:45they were publishing for his Pentecostal Baptist church. And he said
24:49he was editor for that for three years as a national weekly devoted to
24:54religion and science. So, the public's invited to attend that.
24:57So, that's in 1937. So, he's really, you know, traveling around the country
25:02there, going from Oklahoma, Louisiana, and who knows where else. I'm sure
25:06Arkansas was another place he ended up. Yeah, I remember whenever you and I were
25:11years ago going through the Jack and Granny back and forth via email, I
25:16didn't believe it. I didn't believe that that was who would become his
25:20future wife. It said, no, it's his daughter, man. And, you know, I don't
25:24know why it didn't click, but I thought at the time my thinking was there's
25:30no – he's already gotten away with so many things. There's no way he got
25:33away with this as well. And sure enough, after you showed me all the
25:38evidence, this man got away with that too. He's literally traveling with
25:42this young girl who later becomes his wife, and he's hiding her in plain
25:47sight. And, you know, when you think about the early revivals, at least from
25:54the perspective that we've been covering, you can't say that about all of
25:57the revivalists, but there are a number of men that we've identified who
26:03they're really crooked people. Some of them have history with the mob, you
26:07know. Some of them have criminal history, like Davis, every state. And
26:12they're literally hiding in plain sight, and they're using religion as the
26:16means to hide. And that was a concept that it really took me a long time to
26:22grasp, the fact that you could do that. Because the Prohibition, for example, I
26:27began researching, well, what happened whenever – before Prohibition ended,
26:34these guys who were supplying the illicit liquor to the world, they were
26:40like, you know, prestigious. They're almost like today's Hollywood actors,
26:46you know. These guys were famous. They dressed, you know, just looked like Tom
26:52Cruise, some of these guys, right? But then, whenever anybody can get liquor,
26:57and you don't have to go through the mob to get it, well, suddenly they're
27:00nothing more than petty criminals. And what happened? And I started watching
27:03documentaries of how many of them hid. In fact, I can't remember the name of
27:09the place, but there was one location that they had literally burrowed into a
27:14side of a mountain, and they had put a hotel right on the face of the mountain.
27:19And you go into the hotel, and it's a normal hotel, but then there was a
27:23secret tunnel that led to this whole labyrinth where all these mobsters were
27:27hiding. And places like this make you think, well, it all went underground.
27:31But then, in the same documentary, or series, I think it was a series,
27:36they started talking about some of the people hid in plain sight. And I got to
27:40thinking about religion, and at that point, I didn't know everything I knew
27:45about Davis, but I knew Davis had some extensive criminal history, and he seemed
27:51to never get caught. It seemed to me, at that point, that hiding in religion was
27:56actually safer than hiding in some labyrinth underground, where suddenly,
28:02if one person gets exposed, they all get exposed. Well, with Davis, it's very
28:06hard to even catch him. He's going from town to town, and he has different
28:10names, different groups that he's with. One area, he's a Baptist, another area,
28:17he's a Pentecostal. And from there, my mind leaped to, wait a minute, Branham
28:21also claimed to be a Baptist and a Pentecostal, and his father was working
28:26supplying liquor directly to Al Capone through Otto Wathen, and many connections
28:33began to form in my mind that you'll never prove all of them, but it's fascinating
28:38to think about, because this appeared to be a common thing. But you're right,
28:43Davis is doing this, he's doing it in plain sight, and what he's doing is building a
28:49network. And if you think of the NAR how it came to be, its power really isn't
28:57the doctrines or the teaching or even the money, the real power comes in the
29:01network, because you have this collaboration of separate entities that
29:06you could take any two churches in the NAR network, and you can say, these are
29:12different churches, they're not even, you can't call this NAR. In fact, I watched
29:17a debate where some guy was saying this, what is NAR? But you have to understand
29:22first the network, and Davis is doing this, and he's one of the earliest men
29:27that I have seen that does it, and does it like the NAR does, because he really
29:33doesn't care what you believe or what your denomination of faith is. You're in
29:38this network that can support him, and then as he's touring from town to town,
29:42his fame feeds the network. And so this was an elaborate scheme concocted by
29:49Davis that very, very similarly relates to what we see today.
29:55Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started,
29:58or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the
30:02latter reign, Charismatic and other fringe movements into the new Apostolic
30:07Reformation? You can learn this and more on William
30:11Branham Historical Research's website, william-branham.org. On the books page of
30:16the website, you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley,
30:22Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others, with links to the paper, audio, and
30:27digital versions of each book. You can also find resources and documentation on
30:33various people and topics related to those movements. If you want to contribute
30:37to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at
30:42the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video
30:47version that you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Branham
30:50Historical Research, we want to thank you for your support.
30:54It's kind of funny that you mentioned, you know, Roy was always very hard to
30:58catch because he used so many different names. You know, he used Lon Davis a long
31:03time ago back in Georgia. Now he's using Jack Davis, and once in a while his name
31:08will appear as Roy Davis in the papers, but he's just trying to hide. And hiding
31:13in plain sight, you know, using religion just seems to be, like you said, the best
31:17way to, you know, keep yourself out of trouble. And while under the table, behind
31:22the scenes, you're doing all this other, you know, evil activity. So it is a way
31:28that it kind of pulls the wool over people's eyes to say you're a good man,
31:32but you can kind of do what you want to behind the scenes. And you see that a lot
31:37in the ministers that has risen up today. You know, behind the scenes, they're
31:41actually a different person than they are presenting before the public as a
31:45minister. You know, they've done some things, maybe that would disqualify them
31:49to be a minister. And we're seeing some of them stepping down today. The ones
31:53that do step down after doing things that really would disqualify them,
31:56probably the most, you know, you could probably just applaud them for that. But
32:01those that step down for a week or two and then come right back and start
32:08ministering again, you know, those you have to really question. Is their
32:11repentance really genuine? So Roy was really hard to catch during these times,
32:17but, you know, I think we'll find out here in a few years, he almost gets his
32:21due, you know, from the law, and he almost gets to serve his time that he
32:26really deserves to spend in jail. But the network is very important. I think
32:30years ago, back when, you know, I was in college, you know, we talked a lot
32:36about, you know, churches coming together in the world I was in, you know,
32:40about how to get the churches all together, because they're all different
32:43doctrinally. You know, you can't ever agree on it. So a person made a
32:48statement to me one time, you know, we'll never be one doctrinally, but we'll
32:52be one, you know, spiritually, I guess. But I think it's more about being one
32:56in their goals, because look at the kind of people that's in these
32:59organizations, but they still come together, and they cover for one another,
33:04and they all have secrets to hide. You know, some do have more secrets than
33:09others, but they all cover for one another, because the end goal is what
33:14they're all after, you know, which is the dominion, you know, taking over, you
33:19know, the nations and ruling the nations, supposedly as manifest sons of
33:25God, as this hierarchy structure they've got, bringing back the apostolic
33:31apostles, prophets, and so forth to rule. And they feel like that that's going
33:35to be their destiny, is to rule the nations. So we say that, you know,
33:41doctrinally it doesn't really matter. Doctrine doesn't matter to them. It's
33:44all about our end goal. As long as you're on the train for the end goal,
33:48you're in. So that's how it works. So he travels all around.
33:54Davis does. And he ends up back in Jeffersonville, because evidently he had
33:59been going back and forth, because there's a dispute with him about the
34:03revival that he had there. This was 1937. The Volunteers of America had a
34:08dispute over him over something petty. It was a piano and maybe a pulpit that
34:13they were disputing over. It was the Major Olray and Reverend Davis in this
34:17New Albany dispute. And so, you know, he had to come back for that complaint
34:23against him, because they probably stole the piano and the pulpit. You know, for
34:27what reasons, I don't know, because that's so petty. And then by 1939, Davis
34:32gets in trouble again with the courts over an automobile he took out of state,
34:36which was not paid for, and belonged to another person. So they had a mortgage on
34:40it, they said. And also he jumped bond from Arkansas, came back to
34:44Jeffersonville, where he was extradited back. So really him coming back to
34:48Jeffersonville was probably to get away from the law, but he was extradited back.
34:53They actually had an order for him to do that. It was signed by the governor.
34:57This was in 1939 in January in the Cincinnati Inquirer. So he said Governor
35:04Chandler signed that as officers from Arkansas appear with Indiana warrant to
35:10pick up Davis. So he ordered that extradition from Louisville to Hot
35:14Springs, Arkansas, to face a charge of removing from that state an automobile
35:19on which a miserous Kate Gay held a mortgage. So he was starting to get
35:24catch up with him about his doings. And also in the same article, you know,
35:29Davis said, Davis is kind of strange, you know, he must have been involved some
35:33pretty crooked things. Because in the same article, it says Davis, a
35:38miserous gay had permitted said miserous gay had permitted him to take the car
35:41out of Arkansas and charge that those in control, whoever they were in quotes,
35:46at Hot Springs saw his return, because of his participation in the investigation
35:51of a murder case. And he says even this, I won't live as if I go back, he
35:56declared at the hearing, he says, I believe I'll be ambushed. Davis said he
36:01lived in Jeffersonville since last November, and had preached at Louisville.
36:05So see, this is a 1939. So he must have come back in 38. And had lived in
36:11Jeffersonville a year there after his singing tour, you know, in Oklahoma. So
36:15he must have been building up his organization there. So it's kind of
36:19strange, you know, Branham by this time was, you know, pastor of a solid church
36:23there. Davis had no church in Jeffersonville, but he came back. So
36:26obviously, they were probably connected again together right there. I'm sure
36:29they were. I'm sure he reconnected with Branham. And we just don't know about
36:34it. We don't have any evidence in the papers about it. But it also mentions in
36:37this article, it says his daughter, who he described as a radio performer was
36:43present at the hearing. So we see that's Allie Lee, they don't mention the name
36:46of the girl, but it was a radio performer. So we do know that Jack and
36:51Granny were radio performers. And so we know that's exactly who that is. So
36:55sometime between 39 and 41, Davis does get to serve some time in a real prison,
37:01probably at least to 1941-42. Because he did fill out a draft card, I do have a
37:07copy of a draft card in 1941. It's kind of interesting that, you know, why did
37:12he fill out a draft card? He's already pretty old by this time. But there was
37:16a such thing called an old man's draft for the World War Two. You know, not
37:20only were there the young servicemen that from 18, 24 years old that were
37:24being drafted, but there was also the old man's draft. So they went all out
37:28during this war. And they actually drafted people that were a lot older,
37:33just in case they needed them to call them up. So he does. But it's funny that
37:37this is in 1941 or so. He mentions his address is in California. So he has
37:45moved within a couple of years from Jeffersonville. He may have served some
37:50time in prison and then moved all the way out to California. So he's
37:53definitely on the move. And that's probably after his release from prison.
37:58And Ali Lee is on his draft card. She's listed on there as somebody to notify
38:03in case of emergency. And at the same address. So they're both living together.
38:07We know that they were still not married at this time. That's a very key,
38:13crucial thing as you're studying, you know, the history of this is that they
38:17were not married until 1943 in January, but she's listed as living with him on
38:21this draft card. It was two years later that they got married, but that's after
38:25they've been living together for 13 years, you know, and by the time they got
38:29married, they lied about their ages. And so he was spending some time in prison,
38:36you know, and Ali Lee stayed with him during that time. She didn't leave him,
38:41obviously. But when they went down to Mexico, you know, Davis was 54 by this
38:47time and Ali was 29, 1943 in January. And they actually went down to Mexico to
38:53get married. I guess it was again to hide, you know, if they do it in Mexico,
38:57the people in America won't be able to get those documents. And when I came across this,
39:02this was amazing. I had to go into ancestry.com and actually sign up for getting documents out
39:08of the country when I found out he was married in Mexico. And I came across that I said,
39:12well, I've got to get this document. So I really I signed up to get worldwide documents.
39:18And it was so great that I got the it was all in Spanish, but I got their actual wedding document
39:24where they were married in Mexico. But I do know their ages listed in that document was
39:30Davis listed himself as 47. And Ali listed herself as 24. So they both went five years
39:37prior at least, because he was actually 54 years old, she was 29. So they back they backdated their
39:44ages. So so then when they were in California, they could tell everybody, yeah, we've been
39:48married for the last five years, because their ages were at least five years, you know, beyond
39:53that. So I think that was a ploy. Because why else would they have reason to lie about their
39:57ages, you know, they've been living together for so long, they didn't want to present to the public
40:01that, hey, they were living together, you know, immorally. So said they lied about those ages
40:07for that reason, I believe. He lists his current status as divorced on that and his birthplace,
40:12Omaha, Texas, Ali listed herself as single, her birthplace is Dalton, Georgia. So once that
40:19wedding was official, they no longer had to hide under that banner of jack and granny,
40:23although they use it at times, while they're in California, but they no longer had to hide,
40:28they could come out and say, we're now married. And we've been married for several years,
40:31you know, and nobody would know the difference. So. So then, then you can talk more about the
40:37prison sentence, john, because I'm not as familiar with that. But I think I traced it down in my book.
40:42But I definitely think you know more about that than I do. One thing I want to circle back to
40:47I've actually never published this. And you know, I've never said it. So it'll be maybe news to you.
40:54I don't know if you've caught it. But you mentioned that there was a theft of a piano.
41:00And I remember when it was, I think it was searching for vindication.com is the one that
41:06first found that article. So William Branham, the church that he attended, apparently had a stolen
41:11piano. And he would, I should say that differently, the church that he was a bishop of,
41:17he was literally the second in command, their piano was a stolen piano. And it, you know,
41:24it talks about Davis getting in trouble is Davis that was behind the theft, apparently, but
41:30there were some names in it that I didn't catch it until years later. But it mentions that the
41:38volunteers were represented by Thomas Cahill, a Louisville attorney. And it mentioned some names,
41:44Charles R. Turner and Captain W.O. Ulbray. And so you've got Davis, who's leading all of these,
41:52you know, white supremacy stacks. And this is now we're getting into the years where Christian
41:58identity is actually forming. So Davis is a key figure in a movement that eventually would
42:05tightly collaborate with Christian identity, because many of the premises were very much
42:11aligned. And so you picture Davis and all of his organizations as the bad guy. Well,
42:17now you've got the volunteers who are rising up against Davis. And hey, this guy stole a piano.
42:22Let's, let's take the bad guy. Let's, you know, do whatever we can to get the people their piano
42:29back. Well, this is widespread. You have the forces of good rising against the forces of evil.
42:37And Ulbray comes into play years later. Davis and remember in Jeffersonville,
42:45which is a incredibly small town after the flood, especially Jeffersonville had a sudden
42:52surge of Pentecostals. It was really weird because it wasn't just Davis that came.
42:57Davis came with his brother, Dan Davis. And what are the W O I can't remember his initials, but
43:03all these guys came. Well, Dan Davis started a Pentecostal church that was literally just a
43:08few blocks away from Davis's church. So you had two Pentecostal competing organizations
43:15by two brothers and both of them aligned with white supremacy. Well, over in across the river
43:22in Louisville, these guys, and this comes a little bit later, but these guys set up a,
43:28what was called the Bethel mission fund. And the name was a variation on a Baptist mission fund.
43:37So whenever the Baptists are collecting for their mission fund in Louisville,
43:42well, Davis could be on another street corner, a block away, collecting money for the same cause
43:47with almost the same name. And people would think they're giving money to
43:52the Baptist organization is really ingenious. What they did well in 1939,
44:01there's an article I found, and there's a whole series of articles where they're
44:05exposing what Davis and his brother were doing, which was an illegal thing. And remember,
44:11these are the years that William Branham was deeply connected with all of this.
44:14So Branham either was involved with it, or he had to have known that these guys were
44:19stealing money from the Baptist church, basically. But it mentions that these, this man,
44:26Olray, the captain and Turner collaborated to bring the indictment in criminal court against
44:31Dan Davis. And again, Dan is working with Roy. Roy is working with Branham. So this is a
44:39criminal organization that are working together. And so you've got all of these white supremacists
44:47who are, they have this underground network and Davis is creating a religious underground network
44:53and they're working towards the bad cause. At the same time you have all of this going on,
44:58you have the Christian identity movement, which is forming. And we've mentioned, I think you
45:03mentioned in this podcast, uh, Gordon Lindsay, William Branham's campaign manager was in the
45:08Christian identity movement. They were forming. There was, we'll never know the extent because
45:15it's all hidden information, but there was a collaboration that was happening as this was
45:20emerging. Right. And then we're getting into the years, uh, you mentioned the prison sentence and
45:27the years going that direction. Well, now you're getting into the years where the not Nazi
45:33sympathizers or what would become the Nazis, the German sympathizers were also getting in this
45:40weird mix because you have the night of the broken glass. I think it's 1939 November. You have, um,
45:49already the Anglo-Saxon federation, the one that Gordon Lindsay was in, it was forming and they
45:55were creating the anti-Jewish sentiment, which the white supremacists had the anti-black
46:01agenda. So now those two agendas were forming and they were forming this partnership.
46:07We had people like Captain Olroy, who is trying to bring all of this down. So there's a lot of,
46:13a lot of moving pieces here as all of this is progressing. But like you said, Davis does get
46:18caught. He goes to prison and, um, probably not going to talk much about the prison. You can go
46:24see the prison record up here. But what that did was in the, in the grand scheme of things,
46:31what that did was it set William Branham up to where he could have a greater power play
46:37in this movement that Davis had created up until the point of his, his, um, conviction and his,
46:44his prison sentence. Branham was like, he was the second in command. He was a leader of the
46:50Milltown Baptist church, I suspect, and Charles and I kind of agree on this. We think that there
46:57were others beyond just Milltown. There appear to be more. So Branham is a key figure. He's a bishop
47:04who's leading multiple churches at the same time that Davis is growing this Pentecostal organization
47:11whose headquarters is in Jeffersonville. Davis goes to prison. Well, then everything goes in
47:18disarray. Suddenly there's a power grab for the church and for a period of time,
47:25according to the newspapers, the church that Davis planted was actually ran by somebody else.
47:32I think at that time, Branham must have been in Milltown. We don't know yet,
47:37but whatever happens, that guy gets ran out of town. The church burns and Branham takes over
47:44basically the population of Davis's church transitions to what became the Billy Branham
47:49Pentecostal Tabernacle. And the name and its formation suggests that because Davis is now
47:56taken out of the picture, he's gone to prison. We don't know if Davis is coming back. Now Branham
48:02rises to the top of the organization and the organization shifts and changes its name.
48:09I think the latest I have seen the organization used was in a, I think it was 1951. William
48:16Branham says he's holding a Pentecostal Baptist revival, which that is the organization that
48:21Davis created. So this is during Latter Rain. As William Branham is a Latter Rain minister,
48:27he's still heading this organization. So Davis's prison sentence actually created the scenario
48:34where Branham could rise to the top. And then once he's at the top, as we'll get into this,
48:40it gets a little funny because Davis comes back on the scene and now Davis wants it all back.
48:47Well, Branham, he's grown so big himself that what do you do? I don't think Davis ever got
48:53control of what he created. Darrell Bock
48:55Yeah, that's an interesting take on that too. And I think the picture you're painting there is very
49:01much what reality was. Going back, I do know Davis used churches names. The church he was
49:09using in Nashville had a name. I don't remember what the name of it was, but he was using part of
49:14that name to call himself by that church name, which was the church that had left there was
49:20renting the building to him. And then he was actually called out in the newspapers for using
49:24the name because he was collecting funds and having revivals. And the people in the town
49:29thought it was under the auspices of the other church. So he was very sneaky in that. And they
49:34did the same thing up in Louisville. You know, when that Bethel mission, they were collecting
49:40funds under the name Bethel. And so that was another dispute. And so they were very sneaky
49:46in how they did that. And like you said, the Christian identity was really getting a foothold
49:52and forming as it had migrated from the British Israelism, because this was the American version
49:58of British Israelism became Christian identity and Lindsay being a part of that. And you wonder
50:03sometimes all these men, you know, eventually came back together, you know, even though,
50:08you know, Davis was out of the picture and Branham was on his own. But then here is Lindsay,
50:13you know, very much a part of all this. The Pentecostals was Christian identity. And now he
50:18joins with Branham. And perhaps, you know, he joined him for those reasons that, you know,
50:23Branham had a Christian identity sect, you know, or a white supremacist sect that he was part of.
50:30And Lindsay saw that and joined with him. But I think like you think is that Davis,
50:36Davis is all about power. So as soon as he got out of prison, you know, he wanted to find ways to
50:41build his, you know, group back up his reputation back up. And eventually back when he when he comes
50:48back into the picture in 1950. Yeah, it doesn't help Branham's reputation as an honest man at all
50:55with this article in Voice of Healing, you know, about all he says about him being his first
50:59pastor. But but to do after Davis gets out of prison to really build back his organization,
51:05he did what he did best was singing. And he went out to California. And amazingly, he can he
51:12organized this big singing convention. And it brought churches together, congregations together.
51:18So here they are using music to bring many people together, you know, various denominations didn't
51:24matter, you know, what denomination or that you were, as long as you, you know, you know,
51:29wanted to join with them, you were you had a part at the table. So he remained in touch with
51:35Congressman Upshaw, even Upshaw comes back into the picture now. And it's so strange that,
51:40you know, Upshaw would find a place out there. But it had to have been because, you know,
51:45Pentecostalism was strong. Upshaw was a great speaker. And to get their message out, they was
51:50they had an open door. And they had a very wide open door to go speak and to do what they wanted
51:56to do. But Upshaw was back from his Klan days. And now they were back in the same state together. So
52:02you wonder if they hadn't been talking with each other and decided to go out there to plant
52:07something. So by April the second of 43, they announced their singing convention
52:13in San Bernardino County. And Roy Davis of Upland was going to lead this and he's part of the
52:20southern meeting place with the Southern Missionary Baptist Church. And that's where the public was
52:25invited. So they talked about Jack and Granny being radio singers being present. So there again,
52:31it hails back to Roy and Allie. But Roy and Allie settled in Upland, California. And it's very near
52:38Congressman Upshaw. You know, another strange thing that, you know, Upshaw and Davis were very
52:43much connected back in the early days. And this is where it gets into something personal to me,
52:49because when I saw this connection, when you were bringing out this research to start with,
52:53before I ever, you know, dug into it myself, you know, seeing the Upshaw and Davis were connected
52:59and knowing how Davis and Branham were connected, you know, it just made all the sense in the world.
53:04By the time Upshaw was invited to the healing service in 1953 and supposedly got healed
53:11in Branham service and came out of the wheelchair and was supposed to have been crippled all this
53:16time when there's evidence back in the early 20s as a congressman, you know, he was not confined
53:21to a wheelchair, barely on his crutches and running around in halls of Congress as if he
53:27didn't need his crutches. You know, to me, it just it's it showed that there was some fraud there.
53:33And so it's very clear to me at that time. And that's really what sparked,
53:36you know, my mind and brought me out of my delusion. Finally, I had to admit that there's
53:41something crooked going on here. And I didn't know all the details at that time. So that's really
53:47what sparked it for me. And that's why I wrote the book idea just to hopefully spark it somebody
53:53else to show that connection. Because once you see it, you know, you can't can't unsee it at
53:57that point. So Congressman Upshaw addressed a church of the open door address on who shall
54:06rule the world by William Upshaw. You know, so that, that harks back to probably something with
54:12the NIR who's going to rule the world? Well, the Manifest Sons of God, you know, we're going to
54:16rule the world, according to their thinking. And then another one, there's an orphanage being
54:21started. And everywhere they went, you know, they always talked about orphanages, I guess it was a
54:25good way to get state money, you know, to take in some children. And of course, Roy Davis inflated
54:32the claims of how many children he took in, I think they had about nine, back when they put
54:38their picture in the paper. But I think he actually said he had about 75. And this is where his legal
54:45battles started with this orphanage here when they wanted to start this. So one of the things
54:50that the sect that Roy Davis was part of, you know, they always wanted to start orphanages. So
54:56we find back in Jeffersonville, they mentioned an orphanage maybe being started, never got off
55:02the ground. They did get this one off the ground in Upland. And so they started this orphanage,
55:07and they got this lady, Usher, to donate money to the cause. And there was a lot of
55:14bits and pieces here. We may not have time to go into it today. But he only took in about nine
55:19children. And he inflated his claims to say he had 75. And at that time, the state was giving
55:25money, federal government had a program to give money for the food. And he was he was actually
55:31called out on that, you know, they actually found out he was being he was lying about how many
55:36children he had. And Upshaw was a part of this, you know, Upshaw was his treasurer at the time.
55:41So we'll find out that they were promoting Americanism. They were preaching in the areas
55:46holding singing conventions, you know, starting an orphanage, just like they tried to do elsewhere,
55:54to get that state money, and to get people to donate to the cause, you know, that was promoted.
55:59And this lady, Usher, was really the one that brought him down, you know, she became kind of
56:04suspicious of Roy, after she gave him money, and she gave him a lot of her life savings at the time.
56:09So we're gonna find there's a lot of moving pieces there that we may we may go into here
56:14about Roy's and his orphanage. Picture a puzzle, you've got all of these places where the puzzle
56:19pieces connect. And we have solid connections between Angelus Temple and Christian identity.
56:25We also have Christian identity to Roy Davis and his agenda, Upshaw and his agenda. So it's not
56:32like they're directly connected, but it's a puzzle that it all fits together. So next episode, John,
56:39it's gonna be so crazy interesting. We're gonna try to untangle this big web that's been created.
56:47So if you've enjoyed our show, and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
56:51You can find us at william-branham.org. For more information about Roy Davis and William Branham,
56:57read The Persuasive Preacher, The Gifted Prophet, and The Noble Politician. For more information
57:03about the Dark Side of Latter-Rain, read Weaponized Religion,
57:06From Latter-Rain to Colonia Dignidad. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
58:03you