Support the show:
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
John invites Brantley Smith to share his background in Holiness Pentecostal and NAR environments. They share personal anecdotes and the challenges faced due to their upbringing in strict religious settings. The conversation touches on Brantley's journey through various religious movements, including his time at IHOP, and the theological similarities between different cults. They discuss the shared eschatological beliefs, revival meetings, and influential figures like William Branham and Paul Kane.
As the podcast progresses, the discussion delves into the interconnectedness of various religious movements and the surprising connections between prominent figures in these circles. Brantley shares his experiences at IHOP, highlighting the intense environment and the impact of leaders like Paul Kane. They also discuss the broader implications of these movements, including the political and social aspects that shape their teachings. The conversation is interspersed with personal stories and reflections on the psychological effects of growing up in such environments.
00:00 Introduction
02:14 Brantley's Background and Upbringing
04:30 Similarities in Eschatology Across Cults
06:09 Alcohol Policies and Personal Experiences
10:04 Paul Kane's Influence and Personal Encounters
14:31 IHOP's Revival Visions and Their Impact
17:29 Questioning Cult Teachings and Personal Realizations
21:19 The Role of Music in Indoctrination
24:02 Manipulation and Control Tactics in Cults
28:30 The Struggles of Deprogramming from a Cult
32:38 Psychological Effects of Cult Upbringings
36:56 The Broader Impact of Religious and Political Agendas
41:52 Reflection on Personal Growth and Empathy
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
John invites Brantley Smith to share his background in Holiness Pentecostal and NAR environments. They share personal anecdotes and the challenges faced due to their upbringing in strict religious settings. The conversation touches on Brantley's journey through various religious movements, including his time at IHOP, and the theological similarities between different cults. They discuss the shared eschatological beliefs, revival meetings, and influential figures like William Branham and Paul Kane.
As the podcast progresses, the discussion delves into the interconnectedness of various religious movements and the surprising connections between prominent figures in these circles. Brantley shares his experiences at IHOP, highlighting the intense environment and the impact of leaders like Paul Kane. They also discuss the broader implications of these movements, including the political and social aspects that shape their teachings. The conversation is interspersed with personal stories and reflections on the psychological effects of growing up in such environments.
00:00 Introduction
02:14 Brantley's Background and Upbringing
04:30 Similarities in Eschatology Across Cults
06:09 Alcohol Policies and Personal Experiences
10:04 Paul Kane's Influence and Personal Encounters
14:31 IHOP's Revival Visions and Their Impact
17:29 Questioning Cult Teachings and Personal Realizations
21:19 The Role of Music in Indoctrination
24:02 Manipulation and Control Tactics in Cults
28:30 The Struggles of Deprogramming from a Cult
32:38 Psychological Effects of Cult Upbringings
36:56 The Broader Impact of Religious and Political Agendas
41:52 Reflection on Personal Growth and Empathy
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00You
00:00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research
00:00:35podcast. I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham
00:00:40historical research at william-branham.org and with me I have my very
00:00:45special guest Brantley Smith graduate of IHOPU. Brantley it's good to have you on
00:00:51here and to the audience who can't see it this is the second time in a row I've
00:00:57had Brantley on because I accidentally forget to hit record right before this
00:01:03so embarrassing for me but the second time is always better than the first so
00:01:08I'm glad we're going through this a second time but so be good if everybody
00:01:19could get to know you a little bit more so maybe if you could tell everybody a
00:01:23little bit about yourself. Yeah so my name is Brantley and I live out in
00:01:29Virginia Beach Virginia got a wife and two kids 33 years old now I have grown
00:01:35up in environments I guess that most people here would recognize as NAR type
00:01:41environments my extended family grew up to my great-granddad were holiness
00:01:46Pentecostal people so I never saw my grandmother in anything but a dress and
00:01:54like no makeup or earrings or anything like that until the Brownsville revival
00:01:58in the 90s then that's whenever she found her freedom she said and so had a
00:02:03very legalistic kind of upbringing and then started leading worship in church
00:02:09when I was 14 years old so been doing that and still doing that working at a
00:02:13church here in Virginia Beach doing some worship stuff and ended up going
00:02:18to the house of prayer when I was 17 years old and still trying to figure out
00:02:23how to live life after all that so. Well it's so good to have you on here to talk
00:02:27about IHOP and we have a lot of history in common based on the things that we
00:02:32discussed previously and you know even though you did not you were not born and
00:02:39raised in IHOP and came into that specific cult later I'm certain that
00:02:44prior to this you shared some of the themes that I can relate to in my time
00:02:50in the Branham cult and Branham religion we were talking about how some of the
00:02:57eschatology for example was very similar to what Branham had and these things
00:03:03these themes are very common among all of the religions and I recently I've got
00:03:09up on my monitor right now a photograph that somebody sent me of a revival that
00:03:14was held with William Branham and Nathaniel Urshan which will blow
00:03:19people's minds right because a lot of this history has been covered up but as
00:03:24you go back and you start to untangle all of these roots that were tracing not
00:03:30directly you know not ending with Branham but through Branham into other
00:03:34movements he was like the central hub you start to realize that themes of
00:03:38theology just kind of flowed through all of these groups. Yeah I'm surprised I'm
00:03:43so grateful for all your podcasts and stuff that you're doing John because I
00:03:47was unaware of all the different crossover points even before we get to
00:03:53the big one of Paul Cain and IHOP like even like Amy Simple McPherson had no
00:03:57idea that she was involved with these people she was in a total different
00:04:01world had conversations with people about John G Lake and some of these
00:04:05other guys the the gods generals I think your audience is familiar with that term
00:04:10that were idolized and stuff and just had no idea that there was so much
00:04:14cross-pollination between these movements and I joked with you you know
00:04:18off-air that you've kind of brought out my my conspiracy theorist that the cult
00:04:23put in me to begin with you kind of brought that back out I had to kill that
00:04:26now it's now it's showing its head again what are these guys up to but the
00:04:31Paul Cain connection for me was huge because I knew nothing about Paul Cain's
00:04:37life prior to him being a Kansas City prophet didn't know he had a life prior
00:04:41to that to be honest you know share with you earlier that I got to IHOP I was
00:04:46there from 2008 to 2012 and Paul Cain was there physically present on IHOP
00:04:55property the entire pretty much the entire time that I was there and I had
00:05:00no clue he had his public fall from grace I guess his final one in 2006 ish
00:05:05somewhere in that that ballpark and they had him hold up there on Shiloh
00:05:11property their little retreat property had a little house out there and they
00:05:15did their best to keep him there to make sure he wasn't doing anything too crazy
00:05:19but I don't think they were too successful at that but we always heard
00:05:23stories about IHOP's drinking policy so IHOP used to which me growing up
00:05:29holiness Pentecostal alcohol was always a no-no like it wasn't the only time it
00:05:33was accepted and still accepted in my granddad's house is cough syrup that's
00:05:37what we call it which is just moonshine and some honey and some some other stuff
00:05:41but that's there's an exception for that a little wine for the stomach you know
00:05:45but I get to IHOP there's no drinking policy and I found out just like this
00:05:49past year is talking with friends and hearing behind-the-scenes stories and
00:05:51stuff the big reason there was a alcohol ban was because Paul Cain was
00:05:54doing crazy stuff as an alcoholic they're on the missions base and get
00:05:58other people to drink and it just got out of hand and so it's it's crazy just
00:06:04how connected these worlds are whenever it comes to men of power and politics
00:06:10and all that stuff too it's it's insane yeah it's shocking you know I grew up in
00:06:15a in a different cult but you know it was you might consider the grandfather
00:06:20to the IHOP in some certain ways and the alcohol thing I'll never forget after I
00:06:27had left this cult I think I've talked about this before but I had severe
00:06:32depression especially after leaving I was you and I talked about this a bit
00:06:39too I wasn't I was nearly crippled with it the depression from leaving and there
00:06:44was a buildup of depression right before leaving and I'll never forget I was
00:06:48working with a client down in Atlanta and a lady we were at this fancy I think
00:06:54was a Regency Hyatt and they had nothing but top-shelf liquor and when the
00:06:59waitress or waiter came around to your table it wasn't water that they poured
00:07:03in they poured very very expensive wine and I'm like I'm thirsty what do I drink
00:07:08I can't drink this stuff and but yet at the same time I no longer believed it
00:07:12was wrong I had studied you know enough to know that it's not it's not the way
00:07:17we were taught and long story short I tried just a sip off of the wine after a
00:07:23lot of peer pressure and the my depression felt like needles going in
00:07:29and out of my head at all times and that night after just and I seriously it
00:07:34wasn't much more than a tablespoon or two but the the pressure left and the
00:07:40anxiety there's just enough to cut a little bit of the anxiety and so I came
00:07:46back home and I started drinking just a glass and it tasted Nat it tasted to me
00:07:52like cat pee smelled I would take a I would take like Sprite and I would mix
00:07:59it in there and I would drink it long story short after about three months I
00:08:03was actually able to come off of depression meds because the well it was
00:08:07cutting the anxiety and you know that and healing from leaving a cult so all
00:08:12all things together you like the Bible said take a little wine for your stomach
00:08:16well for me it was take a little wine for your head and and it worked yeah
00:08:20yeah that my crazy era you know people have their wild oats eras I've been
00:08:25pretty straight-laced being in the environment I have my whole life but my
00:08:28first time smoking and my first time drinking alcohol was all at IHOP and so
00:08:33I'm thankful for those friends that helped me broaden my boundaries there a
00:08:38little bit I remember that the first time I ever tried alcohol was at a small
00:08:42group then we did communion and they used real wine and I remember being so
00:08:49but it was a wine so it's really sweet so we took it and then we were asking
00:08:54for more afterwards yeah in the Branham churches they preached against what
00:08:59we're drinking wine was sinful in the Branham churches but for communion they
00:09:03gave you real wine so it's like this yeah what am I doing my sinning or am I
00:09:07not so they're just the primary dealer yeah but yeah you talk about Paul Cain
00:09:12and it's just so shocking to me the the fact that whenever I look at these
00:09:18groups and I had no idea how close they were but I was watching I hop from a
00:09:24distance before the big explosions that happened a few years ago and I'm looking
00:09:30at the similarity and I'm thinking oh wait a minute that looks really like the
00:09:34quote we escaped but they don't believe the same thing that's what I thought and
00:09:38it wasn't until I believe it was a it was one of the articles on Todd Bentley
00:09:45they're going into the Manifested Sons of God and the Joel's army I'm like oh
00:09:49my gosh this is Branham ism 101 where'd they get it and I found Paul Cain's name
00:09:54and you know all the pieces started tumbling together and from what I
00:09:59understand Paul Cain not just with IHOP but several of the other big names and I
00:10:04won't mention them but he he helped to establish a lot of the theology that
00:10:09came across the NAR networks and you know again it's Branham ism 101 that
00:10:15he's teaching them yeah Paul Cain that's how I ended up finding IHOP is at our
00:10:24church they were they were cleaning out a closet that was full of old tapes we
00:10:28got a staff member that had left and it was stuff that he had stashed in there
00:10:32and he was a real big prayer guy doing prayer meetings at our church and stuff
00:10:35and I found this tape on this table that was set up of free stuff for people to
00:10:40take it was a tape of Paul Cain and Mike Bickle and I must have known something
00:10:45about Mike at that point maybe I had come across Passion for Jesus and stuff
00:10:49at that point I can't remember exactly how the timeline played out but I'd read
00:10:52Mike's book and encountered some of the music and it's somewhere along the lines
00:10:56they they were pioneers and that they had their live stream going before you
00:11:01know even like twitch and some of the stuff that we have now that makes
00:11:04streaming so accessible you could pay I think it's like 10 20 bucks a month and
00:11:08I would use my own money I worked at a grocery store in high school and I would
00:11:12pay the subscription to listen to the prayer room but like one of the things
00:11:15that really hooked me was I found this tape of Paul and Mike and they were
00:11:20talking about Paul's IC stadiums visions is what it was which opens up I guess
00:11:25it's all at Arrowhead Stadium the way he describes it in Kansas City and
00:11:29there's reporters all lined up and they're all saying that there's nothing
00:11:33no news but good news today to report and they start laying out this huge
00:11:38picture of what's going on that blind that the the sick are being healed and
00:11:42the dead are being raised and it's being led by this group of nameless faceless
00:11:47people who are coming and they're there I can't remember the exact details but
00:11:50they're ministering in shifts and it was something like they're going three days
00:11:53or 72 hours something like that without food and water and then they would come
00:11:58in another team of nameless faceless people would replace them and and I'm
00:12:02listening this I just started driving at the time and had a tape but I only had a
00:12:05tape player this was probably like 2004 or 5 something like that and listen to
00:12:12that whole tape that day I remember sitting in my driveway and I was crying
00:12:15as I was listening to it because in our previous conversation we're talking
00:12:20about you know it's not just like one day somebody walks up to you and ask you
00:12:24to join a cult and you say yes it's like the stuff that had been like implanted
00:12:28in my heart and the way that I'm wired had set me up for that moment to say yes
00:12:33it wasn't like there was there was some soft cells before the hard cell and that
00:12:38was one of those moments that I was just like man this is what I want to do as a
00:12:42young 14 year old worship leader I was like man I want to I want to have this
00:12:46kind of impact because the only other like grandiose thing that I could
00:12:50compare to was like being a Chris Tomlin or something like that and doing
00:12:55music festivals doesn't sound half as cool as like seeing dead people come to
00:12:59life and people being killed and you know national media reporting it and
00:13:03part of it they were like the sporting events have all been canceled because
00:13:06stadiums across America are filled and I'm like I want to be a part of that and
00:13:09that started a deep dark hole I can imagine you know I'm a Kansas City
00:13:17Chiefs fan so I would actually be sad I would rather watch the Chiefs game and
00:13:23I've been a Chiefs fan since before it was cool to be a Chiefs fan oh it wasn't
00:13:27that you were hoping for the revival after they won the Super Bowl is the
00:13:36anxiety that happens what every time the Chiefs go to the Super Bowl and they win
00:13:39all of us in the post I hop community we have this anxiety of like oh no is it
00:13:43all true are we gonna find out that all this was true and revival is actually
00:13:47going to happen we all have slight panics yeah they set these things up and
00:13:52in such a way that they're they're recurring fears we have so in the Branham
00:13:56cult it was from the 40s 50s and 60s you had the communist scare you had all of
00:14:01the things that just wreaked havoc on people's minds in the 40s 50s and 60s we
00:14:07lived in the 2000s 2024s they're still teaching this and so and there were
00:14:13certain key quote-unquote prophecies that we would look for and one of them
00:14:18was that a female would become president well you have a 50-50 chance
00:14:24right so anytime there's a woman who is running for president oh all of the you
00:14:30know all the preachers are going on and on and right now Kamala Harris is the
00:14:33big thing she's the yeah she's gonna follow was the Antichrist when I was at
00:14:38it's just so they wreak havoc with your mind and they they like to we were
00:14:47talking earlier they they like to take things that can toy with your mind and
00:14:53set it up in such a way where they put you in an elitist category you mentioned
00:14:59looking forward to the people who were going to be dying because it it creates
00:15:04this mentality where you you just want to see it they've painted this picture
00:15:08of this fantastic war scene and you want to see it when Branham ism it was they
00:15:13were called cannon fodder and some of the cannon fodder which that phrase
00:15:18means in war these are the people that we don't care if they're gonna die or
00:15:22not they're the cannon fodder some of those cannon fodder people would be
00:15:26Christians and you look back and you think what in the world even if that
00:15:31were true if that were to be the case why would you preach about it this is
00:15:36something that should sadden you it shouldn't bring you to a state of
00:15:39happiness yeah and that was the first night that I went I had my parents drove
00:15:44me to Kansas City I was 17 years old I graduated high school year early to come
00:15:48and and go to the ministry school and we walk in that first night in the prayer
00:15:54room and they're having their weekend service there and Mike's preaching from
00:15:57Isaiah talking about who is this coming up from Edom with garb garments stained
00:16:01red and then he's talking about revelation and blood up to the horse's
00:16:04bridle and he's talking about Jesus slaying the kings of the earth and I
00:16:09think that should have been my first sign that something was off and even my
00:16:13parents sit there and listen to it and they're like this is weird but they
00:16:16really liked the music too so they were they were okay right after right after
00:16:20Mike finished preaching there was this this song and I look back at it and it's
00:16:25weird because I have good memories with this song but I also realize I'm like
00:16:28and that's part of the reason why I stayed is this song but there is this
00:16:31song called finally found where I belong is what it was called and the chorus was
00:16:36I finally found where I belong I finally found where I belong is to be with you
00:16:40and it's like you get a bunch of kids singing that in a prayer room and
00:16:43there's messaging all around this that this is where God wants you to be and
00:16:47you can't leave or you're gonna fall away like it was you know we were ripe
00:16:51for the picking there to go into that and then one of the things I had
00:16:56mentioned to you earlier was with the eschatology it was just so comical we
00:17:00would always have these Q&A's these we called them they called them e12's at
00:17:05one point that was like some kind of in time groups is what they were and we
00:17:08would we even did these with our the kids that would come for our summer
00:17:11awakening teen camps so these are like 10 to 18 year olds that we would come in
00:17:17and us being you know 20-something year olds would come here and indoctrinate
00:17:20these kids about Mike's eschatology and I was laughing because one of the most
00:17:26common questions that all the guys like to ask was do we get to kill people too
00:17:30and and we we didn't see any harm in it like we see Jesus killing people so
00:17:35we're like why can't we kill people too and it's so funny because we're so quick
00:17:39to point the finger at like other extremists and other religions and stuff
00:17:42and then here we are smiley white guy you know going do I get to kill people
00:17:47too and for some reason it's not as bad I don't get it well some of the some of
00:17:53the redneck churches down south I can picture names of people who'd be like
00:17:57yeah give me the gun it's it's scary it's uh you know I'm laughing at the
00:18:04absurdity it's a it's a horrific thing but it's scary what they teach you they
00:18:09adopt they indoctrinate you and in such a way that they can control you to the
00:18:12point where you you would gladly do these things and that's yes you know you
00:18:17look at Islam and people paint it all of Islam with the same brush but their
00:18:23Islam and their Islamic extremists and what you're what you're essentially
00:18:28doing is you're creating Christian extremists when you do this yeah whether
00:18:32they've acted out or not it's you know beyond the point but you mentioned
00:18:36Isaiah and one of the things that really shocked me once I became aware of
00:18:43what was going on in these churches the the Christian identity British
00:18:50Israelism framework what it did was it created this thing where you could take
00:18:56a single passage out of the Old Testament and then you could marry it
00:19:01with a passage from the New Testament both of them ripped out of context and
00:19:05then they could point it to to something that's happening today and usually these
00:19:11guys these cult leaders they will talk about the Old Testament prophets said
00:19:15such-and-such and they will paint this story in your mind where you can relate
00:19:22every single thing that he is saying doing living the way he lives directly
00:19:27to that prophet so you're thinking that prophet is oh is it the same is it the
00:19:31same then they do the same thing with the Apostles and the Apostles are
00:19:35pointed to Jesus but then they twist it such that the thing that's supposed to
00:19:40be pointed Jesus is pointing towards them their ministry their whatever their
00:19:45movement is doing and once I realized what what this was it's just so wrong
00:19:51it's not it's not even you know there's the phrase extra biblical or anti
00:19:57biblical it's not even that it's like they've weaponized phrases of the Bible
00:20:02to program heads to make them willing to like you said willing to kill people
00:20:06that is scary no it really is and you buy a hook line and sinker it's it's
00:20:15crazy because like we became apologists for the movement to in the sense that
00:20:19like all these crazy things like what Jesus killing people like where they
00:20:23would look at Philippians and say well every knee is going to bow and every
00:20:26tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and those who don't or they're
00:20:29they're gonna get the the chopping block kind of thing and it's like well it said
00:20:33every knee would bow and every tongue confess but somehow there's resistors
00:20:36like and those were categories that they would create resistors and reprobate
00:20:40like all these different things and it was always just kind of creating some
00:20:44kind of new boogeyman is what it was and so like the great falling away was you
00:20:49know one of the big things that were hung over our head and in Mike would
00:20:55talk about all the time he would say you know I see people come in in here
00:20:58all the time come in for six months or you know a couple years to do the school
00:21:03and then they go and they fizzle out he never would say that they're not
00:21:07Christians anymore or he would never say anything like that he would just use
00:21:11metaphors like that they just go and fizzle out or like you know they lost
00:21:15their purpose or whatever it might be they're not a part of God's plan
00:21:18anymore and and he would you know exalt these people who's like the people that
00:21:24do it decades he's like some people last ten years and burn out they don't
00:21:27make it you know he's like but God's looking for those who are in it for
00:21:30their whole life and you have that stuff like touted in front of you and that's
00:21:33what keeps you in it day after day and I had many moments where you know I
00:21:39thought that I was going to get out having conversations with people I was
00:21:42sharing one with you earlier where I had a worship team coach who pulled me
00:21:48aside he caught wind that I was planning on leaving after my first year of school
00:21:51and he says really like what are you doing like what's your plan he said
00:21:55you're gonna go home like what's your plan what are you gonna do when you go
00:21:57back home I'm like I don't know like go help out my youth pastor at my church
00:22:00like that was the best idea that I had as an 18 year old and and he tells me
00:22:05you know I wish I could tell a lot of these people to go home and quit doing
00:22:08this because they're wasting their time kind of thing like they're you know they
00:22:11don't they don't need to be doing this and he's like but you he's like you're
00:22:15gonna be doing this for the rest of your life and hearing a worship leader that
00:22:18look up looked up to and idolized say that just meant so much to me and and
00:22:25kept me in it kept me in it and there was so many moments like that where I
00:22:28had moments where I was trying to pull away and there would be some kind of
00:22:31exhortation again and it never was I think sometimes people they think about
00:22:36a cult and they think of you know men dressed in black and white vans pulling
00:22:41you back to the to the place and and I hop wasn't like that it wasn't that it
00:22:46was your friend telling you your roommate telling you hey don't give up
00:22:51don't quit and and I don't think any of them were being nefarious it was just
00:22:55the the mind control that was happening to the masses like they brainwashed us
00:23:00all and we were keeping each other in the fire is what was happening and I
00:23:04think that's one of the reasons why it was so hard to look at it and call it
00:23:07damaging and you know with Mike's allegations coming forward of all this
00:23:12sexual abuse of minors and other women and things and I think that helped
00:23:18people be able to go okay it's a cult because there's sex involved kind of
00:23:22thing which which was good for people to be able to do that to be able to take
00:23:26that step like I guess that's a positive that's came from that but I've had to
00:23:32you know you talked about Stephen Hassan earlier and one of my favorite things
00:23:36is bite model that he does the behavior control and information control and
00:23:40thought control and emotional control and like being able to like filter all
00:23:45my experiences through that now now I can give it a name and that's like so
00:23:49much of the work of like healing is being able to name stuff and articulate
00:23:52stuff and hear people say stuff and go oh I experienced that too you know yeah
00:23:58I remember when I read dr. Hassan's combating cult mind control the first
00:24:01time I I was out of the cult when I read it and I read it and I thought man this
00:24:07is so far out there it's not even close to what we escaped and I've read it
00:24:12multiple times now and at this point I've analyzed a lot of a lot of what we
00:24:17you're glitched are you your video still there I think is it working now yeah
00:24:23it's working now yeah I'll never forget when I read dr. Hassan's book combating
00:24:29cult mind control the first time I thought man this is so far out there
00:24:33this is not even close to what we came out of and I was out of the cult at that
00:24:37time and it wasn't until I've read it multiple times now but it wasn't until I
00:24:42understood the concepts of what he was trying to say it isn't that all cults
00:24:46are alike but they have a very similar framework and they like to tout phrases
00:24:52like the great falling away for example there's gonna be a great falling away
00:24:55well this is a good way to control the people because when you see somebody
00:25:00leave oh well they're part of the falling away they're of the bad guys and
00:25:04it's a good way to turn you know Christians against their brothers too
00:25:08because sometimes a Christian person decides to leave a church but in these
00:25:13cults they're part of the great falling away they the phrase that Branham ism
00:25:18uses they went out from us because they were not of us and you know it's so
00:25:24wrong when you apply that to another Christian person and they the the thing
00:25:30that the media has done you mentioned you know it wasn't obvious until the
00:25:35sexual connections the media has done a disservice I think to the cults because
00:25:42they always show only the extremes yes there's a sexual crime committed so this
00:25:48is an extreme this is an example of a cult or mass suicide whatever it is but
00:25:54there is a slow progression that builds up to that climactic moment and they
00:25:59another thing is a lot of a lot of times the media will paint the picture
00:26:03of people who join a cult as being unintelligent and you know that there
00:26:09may be some people who are in a cult but by and large the people who are
00:26:14intellectual or sometimes more susceptible to joining a cult because
00:26:19they you know they've worked with their minds all week long they come into
00:26:23church on Sunday and they really just want to rest and shut shut off the
00:26:28outside world and so they unfortunately they just disabled their critical
00:26:32thinking and so the pastors will start preaching and they will in these cult
00:26:38groups though you know but bring it down to an elementary level and they'll put
00:26:44out simple just crazy stupid things like we in Branham ism there was the fives the
00:26:51sevens and the threes and if you could and sometimes shapes too if it was a
00:26:55pyramid it was obviously spiritual and so they would break it down to these
00:27:00elementary level when you've shut off your critical thinking you're looking
00:27:04for these puzzle pieces that build into these broader pictures that they're
00:27:08painting and oh well that's a seven I can see seven in that category
00:27:12Branham had Branham said he had five angels and five spelled g-r-a-c-e and
00:27:20everybody's oh come on man I just want to know what kind of trip Bob Jones was
00:27:27on whenever I hop was given to him like what I want to know if he was sitting in
00:27:31the night hop at like 2 a.m. and just looked at it and started coming up with
00:27:34his acronym I don't know well that's part of Branham ism 101 to Branham often
00:27:40talked about how the only proper way to eat a pancake was to baptize it in syrup
00:27:45so I can get behind that yeah I often say that's the only thing that Branham
00:27:54got right yeah yeah I it's so interesting like the there I had
00:28:01somebody tell me I guess there's a couple months back really smart person
00:28:05who's like a they do strategy for companies and stuff and she was talked
00:28:10to stepping back and looking at what Mike had done with I hop and I hate to
00:28:14say it I might be giving him too much credit but I think the guy's a genius
00:28:16like thought it not a good genius but the guy's like brilliant or just very
00:28:20lucky or trained very well but he did a whole category creation thing like he
00:28:27invented intercessory missionary like what in the world is that that he made a
00:28:33whole new title of you come here you set in this prayer room and you get people
00:28:38to give you money to stay here you know the flip side of that is not many people
00:28:42gave us money to stay there that we were all poor and impoverished or
00:28:45whatever but he came up with all these different things he came up with the
00:28:47worship model you're talking about you know turning your brain off and stuff
00:28:52there was so much of what they called harp and bowl where we would sing you
00:28:56know spontaneously in the scriptures and we had different kinds of central we
00:29:00would pray for prayer topics but then sometimes we would just pray the Bible
00:29:03which was just singing I hops theology and most of it was just like slow and
00:29:08moody and lots of pads and reverb on guitars and ambient you know and it was
00:29:13it was it would lull you to sleep it would it would make you put your guard
00:29:16down but there was so many of these pieces put in place that just made made
00:29:21it a hate to say that this but it made a brainwashing factory is what I did and
00:29:29it got everybody you know on the same page and singing the same stuff and it
00:29:34got to the point to where I just been realizing this recently that allowed
00:29:40them to define so many things for me and I guess that's you know that's the
00:29:44information thought control kind of stuff of that I let them define who
00:29:50Jesus was and it had to line up with their definition even even if I saw
00:29:54something different in scripture or whatever one of the big ones was justice
00:29:58like their idea of justice like we would sing all the time a chorus that if it's
00:30:03not Jesus it's not justice we want Jesus we want justice and what that meant to
00:30:08them was if we're not preaching the gospel if we're not you know telling
00:30:13them our message then it's not justice you can go feed people you can go clothes
00:30:17people but if you're not bringing Jesus explicitly into it it's the work of the
00:30:23Antichrist and so like that's the they had a whole theology about a false
00:30:27justice movement in the Antichrist and it's just amazing like the the power
00:30:36that we gave to these people in our lives like now that the blinders are off
00:30:40I'm just like how in the world but it was a slow process it was you know it
00:30:45started when I was a kid and and climaxed there and the detangling was you know
00:30:50it took just as long it was taking just as long yeah I you're a musician and I'm
00:30:56a musician and I remember after I left this and I got to thinking back of the
00:31:03music we had such some of it was good I'm not gonna say all the music was bad
00:31:08but there were certain songs that were obviously cult songs and they were
00:31:12obviously with the intent to indoctrinate you some of them were about
00:31:17Branham and Branham and being the prophet and there we had songs like you
00:31:22know not to the level that you had but we had songs about we're we're the
00:31:27Christian army we're going to war this kind of thing which was kind of common
00:31:31back you know you go back into the early days of Pentecostal ism if you look at
00:31:37the timeline of the world wars and then look at some of that music that happened
00:31:41doing this exactly and though you know that's light-hearted to some extent now
00:31:49some of the verses I go back that's healthy or not but after I left I you
00:31:56know I have I had trouble even listening to Christian music because I realized
00:32:01how chant the chanting works it could indoctrinate you and you could not even
00:32:06know that you're believing something false just because you're chanting this
00:32:09music over and over and I'm I'm convinced if I had never been in this
00:32:15cult and I had chosen my own pathway instead of having a lot of it chosen for
00:32:21me I probably would have became a psychologist and I study the psychology
00:32:26of it to no end and I got into the study of the music and you know like I said
00:32:32people who come into these things they're tired they want to shut off the
00:32:36world and relax and just you know here's a safe place it's a church it's a safe
00:32:41place and it painted that way too yeah it's painted that way and so they you
00:32:46know in the it's hypercharged now but back in the 40s 50s and 60s you'd come
00:32:52into this holy music in this holy sanctuary the the Branham type churches
00:32:59you couldn't talk if you went into the sanctuary the ushers would come in and
00:33:03they would take you out and boot you out of the building if you spoke and so
00:33:07you're coming in and you sit down and there's this soft organ playing and your
00:33:12your heart rate slows down to that level because you're relaxed then the preacher
00:33:16starts preaching and he's also starting off really slow and he gives you this
00:33:22welcoming story that you can relate to and then speeds up throughout the course
00:33:27of the sermon until he's just yelling at you and so you have entered the state
00:33:34where it's almost like the abused child scenario you're you're isolating
00:33:39yourself mentally because you're being abused you're being emotionally abused
00:33:43and it's matching your heart rate so he's brought you into the state of
00:33:47hypnosis where you've shut off everything and now he can he can have
00:33:51his way with your mind you set me up for an alley-oop there because it sounds
00:33:56like if if you remove the Branham stuff from it it sounds just like the prayer
00:33:59room sounds like the from the ushers to everything and so like it's there was no
00:34:06talking in the prayer room I can't think of anything more cruel than putting four
00:34:11to five hundred people in a room which is is sometimes what it may be two
00:34:14three hundred something like that I don't want to exaggerate but like our
00:34:17big fasting days and things like that when it was like all staff prayer meetings
00:34:20you get all these people jam-packed in a room and then tell them they can't talk
00:34:23to each other like we're all sitting there you know exciting music this and
00:34:27that and if you went off into a side room and tried to have a personal
00:34:29conversation you'd get ran out and and if you went outside the prayer room
00:34:33you'd get in trouble because you're supposed to be in there keeping your
00:34:36commitment of your sacred trust of 24 hours a week and that's it's crazy how
00:34:42that happens and you talking about the songs we had a worship leader wrote one
00:34:48song Misty who's one of the main worship leaders there about the prophetic
00:34:53history and I didn't realize it till I was like probably two three years and I
00:34:56hop that that's what it's about because my it's funny because I had no biblical
00:34:59foundation before I hop and they gave me just enough biblical foundation to like
00:35:04believe them hook line and sinker like they were the first people that told me
00:35:07that are in articulated Jesus is fully God and fully man and I was like my mind
00:35:12was blown I was like oh my gosh like they're teaching me Christology and I
00:35:15learned what Christology was and like all these things so I was like why can't
00:35:19I trust them and then whenever we're having like our anniversaries and stuff
00:35:23like that she would break out this song of I've heard the story told of the
00:35:27prophet who prophesied of the rain that would come in the middle of the drought
00:35:31that would that would be a sign of the rains to come and then the chorus was
00:35:35I'm still waiting for the rain waiting for the rain and so in an act of
00:35:41rebellion earlier this year I posted about that song on social media and
00:35:45recorded a cover of CCR have you ever seen the rain yeah we had we had similar
00:35:55we had the song and they stick with you right even still today I'll be out
00:36:00working on my car and one of these things will pop in my head and I'm
00:36:03humming and I throw the wrench on the ground like get that out of my head yes
00:36:08and some of them are good and that's the problem like some of them are good
00:36:12melodies and like good jams it's just like yeah and we weren't I see we
00:36:17weren't allowed to live I did not know who CCR was until a few years ago we
00:36:20weren't allowed to listen to it because in the 40s 50s and 60s the era we were
00:36:25stuck in rock and roll was of the devil and so I had never heard it and I'll
00:36:30never forget I was listening my new music and suddenly midnight special came
00:36:35on to the radio and I'm like wait a minute that's that is the tune to the
00:36:40song that I sang growing up constantly I still had it stuck in my head we were
00:36:45singing let the Holy Ghost message shine your love ever loving light on you and
00:36:49some guy had just completely robbed whoever's the band I can't think of the
00:36:53band name but he had my family saying that song John I don't think I actually
00:37:00know midnight special I think I know the song you're singing well so you got to
00:37:07go here midnight special it's actually a good song but yeah they they use these
00:37:12techniques and I'm convinced that people like you know in today's world the cults
00:37:18I'm convinced that there was a strategy behind it because they're using the same
00:37:22exact strategies of the old years but they've removed what no longer works and
00:37:27they're attaching new things like one of the things is they love to do anything
00:37:34that can just completely rob you of your time if they can hijack your time they
00:37:40can hijack your mind and especially if they can keep your keep all your time
00:37:45focused on the cult then you're constantly bringing continually
00:37:49brainwashing yourself in the Branham cults we did this because we were
00:37:53supposed to listen to these cassette tape recordings of Branham but in today's
00:37:57world you know it's so much more powerful there's mp3s there's the videos
00:38:02now these many of the cults have YouTube channels and people are just pouring
00:38:07themselves into it have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement
00:38:11started or how the progression of modern Pentecostal ism transition through the
00:38:16latter rain charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic
00:38:21Reformation you can learn this and more on William Branham historical research
00:38:25is website William dash Branham dot org on the books page of the website you can
00:38:31find the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley Stephen
00:38:36Montgomery John MacKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and
00:38:41digital versions of each book you can also find resources and documentation on
00:38:46various people and topics related to those movements if you want to
00:38:50contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute
00:38:55button at the top and as always be sure to LIKE and subscribe to the audio or
00:39:00video version that you're listening to or watching on behalf of William Branham
00:39:04historical research we want to thank you for your support yeah it's interesting
00:39:09Mike had a one of his other teaching series so he had his sevens he had his
00:39:14seven signs of a cult and seven longings of the heart and he had you know all
00:39:18that stuff but he talked about power of a focused life is what he called it and
00:39:22he would talk about breaking your day up into 15 minute increments and talk about
00:39:25redeeming the time and how we'd all stand before Jesus and be accountable
00:39:29for every second of how we spend our time in our lives and I remember that
00:39:36it's funny like how our body tells us things like tells us that we're not safe
00:39:40and we don't know how to listen to it sometimes and sometimes we or at least I
00:39:45did I ended up calling it you know spiritual encounters or something I had
00:39:48a dream one time where it was like this military boarding school type thing and
00:39:54very in the spirit of Joel's army I guess is how I took it at the time as
00:39:59soon as I woke up the next morning I was like oh my gosh I was in Joel's army
00:40:04we're looking at this whiteboard me and my friends I guess whoever in the in the
00:40:08army with me and in this whiteboard it's got the whole week mapped out and I'm
00:40:13assuming it was the 15 minute increments I just remember seeing these blocks
00:40:16under each day of the week and stuff and seeing that everything was filled in
00:40:20that there was no free time and I remember looking at the board and of all
00:40:24things to ask and to ponder and wonder I look at the board and I go I don't know
00:40:28what I'm gonna have time to brush my teeth and I remember that like blowing
00:40:32me away but that is like I'm doing this thing I'm signing up I'm signing up
00:40:36again we're in you know Joel's army and training and you know we're getting
00:40:41equipped here Jesus is coming back we're not gonna fall away like all of it just
00:40:46yeah I wasn't certain that everybody in our church wore deodorant but it's you
00:40:52know it's a little bit worse if they didn't brush their teeth it's it's so
00:40:57insane I mean as a student I was so I had like is about three hours a day that
00:41:03we would take a class and it'd be one class would last three hours we'd take
00:41:06one class at a time and then we also had to do prayer room hours which were 24
00:41:10hours a week which usually ended up you could do those but almost however you
00:41:14wanted but you had to do 12 two-hour prayer meetings weeks what it was and
00:41:19so most people either do you know four days of six hours in the prayer room or
00:41:24six days of four hours in the prayer room and I worked for the internship at
00:41:30the time as well as kind of that's how I kept a roof over my head so I was kind
00:41:33of like a an RA for the internship I lived with the interns and made sure
00:41:37they didn't do crazy stuff and most the time I was the instigator of the crazy
00:41:41stuff but we won't get into that brought a little levity to the to the cult I
00:41:45guess but I would so I had requirements there as far as like my job to keep a
00:41:53roof over my house that over my head they so I had a bedroom there and then
00:41:57they gave us three meals a week out of the cafeteria is what they would let the
00:42:01staff do so I knew I was at least gonna eat three times a week and then outside
00:42:06of that I worked at a church on Sunday mornings it was the only time I got
00:42:10outside the bubble so it's it's a weird dynamic at IHOP like like I look like
00:42:16not to be arrogant but I'm like I'm a good musician I'm a good worship leader
00:42:19like I know that I'm good at what I do but good musicians and worship leaders
00:42:24and stuff are a dime a dozen at IHOP like everybody is a great singer
00:42:28everybody's a great musician worship leader and so I took this job on Sunday
00:42:32mornings at a local Methodist Church and I'd get paid a hundred bucks a week to
00:42:37go lead worship for them and then I could bring a team of like five people
00:42:41five or six people and they would pay them 50 bucks a piece so I had this
00:42:45little conglomerate of IHOPers who would pile in a van with me and we would drive
00:42:50to Shawnee about 30-45 minutes away go lead worship at this church and that was
00:42:54the only money that I made and so I had that you know 400 bucks a month and I
00:42:59got the roof and the three meals then somehow I lived off that like nowadays I
00:43:04don't know how that would have you know kept me afloat but I'm an adult with
00:43:08kids and a family and pay real rent you know I'm like I don't know how I
00:43:12survived but they did they filled our schedule completely with requirements
00:43:18every Friday and Saturday night we had required services we're supposed to be
00:43:22at so we never got the traditional weekend experiences and then sometimes
00:43:26you'd have to go depending on the season of that what was going on sometimes you
00:43:29had to be there Sunday morning service too and so it was they did a good job of
00:43:34keeping us busy all the time yeah I can't even imagine putting myself
00:43:39through that it sounds like so you're in the Joel's army it almost sounds like
00:43:45you're in a platoon right the way that they structure this I'll never forget I
00:43:52like I said I had examined Mike Bickle and IHOP from a distance just noticing
00:43:58odd similarities but it wasn't until I saw the Southern Poverty Law Center's
00:44:03big write-up on what's-his-name Todd Bentley whenever I really it really
00:44:09struck me Joel's army manifested sons of God that's Branham ism 101 and it even
00:44:16predates Branham to some extent because it's Christian identity theology and
00:44:20they're they're basically they were trying to form the notion that we were
00:44:26forming the final end of days warriors for the end of days battle between the
00:44:32forces of good and evil and you're going to be part of it because you're of the
00:44:35special group is that where the white supremacy stuff came into the Branham
00:44:40stuff was that linked to the Christian identity it's it's this big weird
00:44:44conglomeration of everything so Branham's mentor was the second in
00:44:48command of the 1915 Ku Klux Klan and later the Imperial Wizard so he got some
00:44:55of his ideas from that although a lot of it has been scrubbed you you won't
00:45:00find many many direct themes but what you will find is there was this growing
00:45:06there was this growing notion that from British Israel ism which is the weird
00:45:14anti-scientific anti-correct theology that the people of the American Isles
00:45:21and the British of the Americas and the British Isles were the lost in tribes of
00:45:25Israel well there became this the sudden notion that if you take some of the
00:45:32passages that were written to Israel in the Old Testament they apply but it's
00:45:37they only apply in part we have to have a new prophet to tell us how they apply
00:45:42to us today and so they would take weird weird things like so you need another
00:45:48cold yeah you basically need another cold so Branham took the prophecy of
00:45:53Nahum and he said now Nahum who oh by the way is writing about ancient
00:45:58Assyrians he's he and Nineveh and he it even says a prophecy to Nineveh I think
00:46:04at the top of the scroll Branham says he is describing Outer Drive in Chicago and
00:46:09what what they were doing I I studied you know I studied all kinds of things
00:46:16because I'm trying to figure out how and why people believe this nonsense
00:46:19there was a sudden unexplainable tidal wave that hit Lake Michigan and people
00:46:26died because all of a sudden out of the bloom out of the out of the blue there's
00:46:31this sudden tidal wave surging for no reason they can't figure it out now they
00:46:35have figured it out it is a you know it's a natural occurrence but back then
00:46:40nobody knew what this was and they'd never heard of this so they the people
00:46:45who were trying to build religion off of fear was claiming that this was God
00:46:49telling us the end of the world is coming and Nahum is writing about us
00:46:53right here in the prophecy so you had this weird mixture of people thinking
00:47:00that they're Israel and then you had all of the wars and the fears of another
00:47:05third world war so they were creating armies and then mix all of this with the
00:47:11British Israel theology because it's the notion that the Anglo-Saxon race
00:47:16were the descendants of the twelve tribes of Israel well people got to
00:47:21thinking oh well if I'm not if they're not Anglo-Saxon they must be the bad
00:47:25guys so then it turned into a racist theme and that just spread like
00:47:29wildfire it's it's crazy because like once you see some of this stuff you see
00:47:35it everywhere and it's like hard to unsee and that's like one of the
00:47:39scariest things like looking at right now and like learning some of these
00:47:42history things I don't know if you're familiar with I hope I say her name
00:47:46right but Kristen Dumais who did the Jesus and John Wayne book I don't know
00:47:51if you're familiar with her at all I've heard of it yeah she yes she she'd done
00:47:55a whole lot and she kind of dives into not as much the white supremacy side of
00:48:01Christianity I mean there's some of that at play but she dives into some of the
00:48:07red scare stuff and like I had no idea that Billy Graham was up there saying
00:48:13that you know these are the the devil's attacking America kind of like we're
00:48:18God's people and the communists are coming for us and it's a spiritual
00:48:22attack and this and that and I'm like like Billy Graham is like a hero like
00:48:26I've never heard anybody say anything bad about Billy Graham and I'm like you
00:48:29know like all these these positive things and I'm like I hear him saying
00:48:32this and I'm like oh my gosh like these guys like there's some kind of
00:48:35connection there's something like they're not coming up with this on their
00:48:39own but then you start to see like modern-day examples of it and you're
00:48:42just like oh gosh oh yeah makes you scared what exactly and that's why
00:48:48Christian poverty or southern poverty law poverty law published this they
00:48:52monitor the racist groups and extremist groups right well the the Joel's army it
00:48:59developed because of Christian identity and Christian identity was there were
00:49:04there were different aspects of it but one of them was they they took this book
00:49:09called the protocols of the learned elders of Zion which told of this Jewish
00:49:14communist plot against you know the world there's going to be global
00:49:18domination by the Jews and they've infiltrated the government this school
00:49:23systems they're now coming into media and television and anyway until weeks
00:49:28heaven mount utopias exactly you know I've been going through this every
00:49:33single thing that the NR has today I can find it in Christian identity which
00:49:37is really really scary but Billy Graham was he was a big part of this he he was
00:49:42pushing a lot of the same agendas and he even I can't remember what year that was
00:49:49but he had to go back and repent because of some of the anti-semitic things that
00:49:54he said because of the Christian identity themes that were there were
00:49:57dominating yeah it's it's it's it's crazy just like the because although a
00:50:04lot of these harmful things were experienced at IHOP that I experienced
00:50:07like you see a lot of them in broader Christianity and not to make like
00:50:13judgment statements about things and in people's beliefs and what they want to
00:50:17believe but in my experience growing up with ideas like like total depravity and
00:50:23being told that you know my goodness is nothing apart from God and that my
00:50:27righteousness is filthy rags and all these things being told that over and
00:50:31over does something to your psyche to where you begin to think that you're a
00:50:36worthless piece of junk and that there is no good in you and I remember that's
00:50:41whenever the wheels started falling off for me was in in 2020 I saw hopefully you
00:50:47know if people agree with this I can't they don't they don't whatever but for
00:50:52me I started seeing you know during the pandemic and all we had the BLM right
00:50:57riot protest stuff depending on what side of the aisle you call it different
00:51:00things and and I remember it was it was that day whenever if I can say it's not
00:51:08I hate even saying his name that's how much like division is around this stuff
00:51:11but I remember when Trump took that Bible and walked up the road to do that
00:51:15photo op in front of that church and they ended up you know I can't if it's
00:51:19National Guard or local police or Capitol Police whatever it was was going
00:51:22and moving these people out of the way so Trump could walk up to do a photo op
00:51:25with this Bible in this thing and I mean they're just brutalizing these people
00:51:29like just so he could take a picture and what I see is black people and gay
00:51:34people helping each other up and I'm like okay like the church has told me
00:51:39that these are bad people and that they can have no good like apart from God and
00:51:44I see you know one of the biggest demonized segments of society of the
00:51:49LGBT community I see them helping all these people and I'm like how can I look
00:51:54at that and call it bad it's just it's crazy how pervasive the just the
00:52:02supremacy kind of idea is and how much it's ingrained and I don't think it's
00:52:06talked about enough and I hop had some stuff like my there's somebody had a
00:52:12dream about Mike Bickle and an afro and they were talking about people coming
00:52:16out of hip-hop into I hop and and they like end up launching this whole
00:52:21african-american forerunner Alliance ministry and started doing conferences
00:52:26for black people and it was it was such a weird kind of thing but you could talk
00:52:30to any person of color who was at I hop and they were pushed to the sides they
00:52:35were only given a voice whenever it helped the greater good and they could
00:52:38control it if anybody started pushing back on anything they were put behind a
00:52:42soundboard or put in the back closet somewhere you know doing broadcast audio
00:52:46or somewhere where they can't make a racket and it's just the the roots of
00:52:52evil that happened in these places I'm like how dare y'all say that we have no
00:52:56good not and this is your fruit you know it's it's so wrong they dehumanize
00:53:02people and yeah the fact that you mentioned the word homosexual means that
00:53:08thanks to you I'm gonna have my inbox filled up my comment feeds filled up
00:53:12with people even the mention of the word people are so charged so it'll be
00:53:18charged against it and it's a pull you know there are scriptures that talk
00:53:23about homosexuality it is there it's black and white and that's it's listed
00:53:29as a sin there are other things that are listed as sin such as drunkenness and we
00:53:34talked about drinking earlier right well back in the 50s and 60s before the
00:53:40homosexual agenda was politicized it was the prohibition agenda and if you went
00:53:46back into that era if you were to mention alcohol like we did casually
00:53:51they would have received not you know emails but they would ever see people
00:53:56with ball bats coming up to get them it's it is a political weaponization of
00:54:01religion and it's the pro-life movement now I mean that was a big part of IHOP
00:54:06we were I never had any other option growing up I didn't even know I just
00:54:11knew we voted for pro-life candidates I remember at my home church growing up
00:54:15having pamphlets I'm pretty sure this is against tax code and stuff like that but
00:54:19they would have pamphlets of all the pro-life people so that you could take
00:54:22it to the poll and know who to vote for not on anything else just that they
00:54:25didn't believe in that abortion that was the sole determining factor they could
00:54:29be the biggest crook in the world but as long as they were pro-life you know
00:54:33that's what we did and I mean that they would have us go out and do I don't know
00:54:36if you ever saw the bound for life tape things where we put the red life tape
00:54:40over our mouths and they did a thing in DC for a while where they set up a house
00:54:44of prayer there with Lou Engle and would protest on the Supreme Court steps and
00:54:48and you start to hear some of these people put together there's lots of
00:54:52people who've talked about it putting these pieces together of the
00:54:54politicalization I can't even talk right of all of this with like the Pat
00:55:01Robertson's and the Falwell's and all these characters who that come together
00:55:05and you've realized you're like oh my gosh these guys are pulling all our
00:55:08strings and they're like trying to control all this it then you're like is
00:55:11America a cult I don't know yeah and into people like you and I who were
00:55:17empathy empaths we we really want to help people genuinely you and I had a
00:55:23conversation about this it's one of the things that really bothers me because
00:55:27you know I can't dehumanize a person even when I was in the cult I couldn't
00:55:32do this and I you know the fact I had a person who admitted recently on a
00:55:39podcast that years ago he had struggled with homosexuality and I actually had
00:55:45people that were blasting me because I didn't attack him for his past sin of
00:55:51homosexuality I'm like I can't I'm not like this number one I don't want to do
00:55:55it but it's not right and I'm not in a religion where I'm politicized where I
00:56:01have to hate people and I will never ever be in a religion like this the
00:56:06abortion issue you know I've watched I've watched women on the news who are
00:56:10crying because they're in a state where their their life is at risk they might
00:56:17because of the right the baby that's in them and I've watched some of these
00:56:21Christian ministers who say things like well if we allow this then we're opening
00:56:26the door to what you know widespread abortion so they're dehumanizing the
00:56:31person who actually might die and I can't be like this you know it's not me
00:56:36it's it's crazy how they they I mean we're programmed to look at people that
00:56:42way and to feel a personal responsibility for their decisions and
00:56:47and that's been one of the hardest things to be able to pinpoint like where
00:56:51that comes from for me is you know it's whether they're going to burn in hell
00:56:56forever and that fear and you can have that personal thing I remember you know
00:57:00growing up and in the churches I did we all had a prayer list and the souls we
00:57:03prayed for the souls we want to see saved and and we would grieve and grieve
00:57:09and grieve it's not that I don't you know I have space for for people to
00:57:12believe those things but the fact that it would derail my life based on choices
00:57:18that somebody else was making was just so interesting and and and I've seen so
00:57:24many lives damaged from that kind of stuff I have you know many friends
00:57:31because one of the things I hop engaged in pretty voraciously but they probably
00:57:35deny is conversion therapy type stuff and and I've seen the harm that that's
00:57:40had on friends I've seen friends who were forced into heterosexual marriages
00:57:44and see those things fall apart later because like that's you know the people
00:57:50have their opinions you can have your opinions on it but but I saw the the the
00:57:53harm that was left because of that because what what had happened and that
00:58:00that's that's everything that I do everything I've been doing we've been
00:58:03setting up you know support spaces and things like that for for a while and
00:58:08we've been hosting conversations on Friday nights and that's been one of the
00:58:11biggest things is we've been telling people is like you're gonna hear diverse
00:58:16opinions you're gonna hear things that you might not agree with and that's okay
00:58:21nobody's trying to change your mind nobody's trying to tell you that you're
00:58:25wrong like we're not trying to do any of that but we're trying to listen to one
00:58:29another that's what we're trying to do we're trying to listen to experiences
00:58:33which is one of the reasons why I appreciate Wesley's theology of giving
00:58:37experience a little bit of credence but you can't question somebody's experience
00:58:43and the harms that they experience their conclusions you might not agree with
00:58:46their conclusions of why that harm exists but we can all empathize and see
00:58:51it and understand it and call it harm like we can we can we can see that and I
00:58:56just wish we had more of that in the world and that's why that's why I do
00:58:59stuff like this is because I want people to see people as humans that's yeah huge
00:59:03it is huge it's you know the cults teach you a very black-or-white mentality it's
00:59:09either right or it's wrong it's either good or it's evil it's there's no in
00:59:14between and what it takes away is the element of growth to learn why it's
00:59:19right or it's wrong and you're not really allowed the questions of finding
00:59:24out what do you agree if it's right or wrong you're told you must believe it
00:59:28and when people leave these cults they're stuck with that mentality yeah
00:59:34and the simple process like I was born and raised in it I've never had a chance
00:59:39to even discover what was right or wrong I was told this is what God is and they
00:59:44painted this narcissistic God that honestly if I had have been able to
00:59:50critically think I would say I don't even like this God well why would I want
00:59:53to serve a narcissistic God and it's not the God of the Bible by no means but
00:59:59the problem is it's black or white and when people leave this they've been
01:00:02manipulated to believe that they can't have that personal growth and many of
01:00:08them are starting as if they're teenagers again spiritually and mentally
01:00:14so they have to go through that growth and many times I mean one of the first
01:00:17things that happens to a teenager is well do I even believe in God why do I
01:00:22believe in God my parents they're Christian why am why am I Christian just
01:00:26because they're Christian many teenagers go through this well people who
01:00:30deprogram from a cult and they deconstruct they're deconstructing a
01:00:35false God that really doesn't even it doesn't even match the Bible doesn't
01:00:39exist and they're questioning that God so they have nothing and if you try to
01:00:45force upon them what it is that they're supposed to believe you're no better
01:00:49than the cults and that's that's the reason why I have such an open platform
01:00:54I don't care who you are what you believe if you've been burned by a cult
01:00:57I'm gonna hear your voice if you're willing to share your story with others
01:01:01and other people can learn from it and who am I to say that you know people who
01:01:07have taken one path now won't come into a Christian path later I I'm not the one
01:01:12that makes that decision you know what I mean yeah yeah that's that's in the
01:01:15post I hop community I mean all of us came from a Christian background and so
01:01:19there's still a lot of that language and that's the primary way we still all
01:01:22communicate and but there's people all across the board of they may be you know
01:01:27their own version of Christian whatever that means to them they may have gone to
01:01:30like a more liturgical church now or they may be agnostic but some of them
01:01:34are still using the same language to grab their experiences but I love one of
01:01:39my friends was on a podcast the other day and and somebody had come kind of
01:01:44aggressively for the deconstructing folks I guess they're easy targets
01:01:47these days and in her response to him because he was trying to pigeonhole her
01:01:54into an answer and she's like you know I hear a lot of things said about these
01:01:57people she's like but what I hear them saying is Jesus would not treat people
01:02:01this way she's like that's what I hear them saying I don't hear them say hail
01:02:04Satan worship the devil I want to sin like I hear them say like this is not
01:02:09what Jesus looks like and we talked about earlier in our conversation like
01:02:14that's one of the things that like give me so much peace is is looking at all
01:02:19these threads throughout my life although Brantley 14 year old Brantley
01:02:23would probably look at 33 year old Brantley now and call him a heretic and
01:02:26fear for his eternal salvation but there's parts of 14 year old Brantley
01:02:32that's still me that still exists and and that's one of them is like I really
01:02:38believe and still frankly believe in in the things that Jesus did and taught and
01:02:43said and but like it's it's the least of these message it's like when do we hear
01:02:49that like it's so much of its supremacy whether it's Christian supremacy with
01:02:52Ten Commandments and forced you know Bibles and curriculums and things like
01:02:57that like I get like I've been there and I've supported those things at times but
01:03:05we just need to let people be and grow and people are good people we just need
01:03:11to let them be good people and good things will happen quit trying to
01:03:15control everything and it's sorry it's a tangent John it is for me too I mean
01:03:21I'm a people person I love all people you know I I would have Mike Bickle in
01:03:27this program if he'd do it I wouldn't agree with everything he said by no
01:03:33means but you know I being in the upper echelons of the cult that I escaped
01:03:41I sympathize with even the leadership because some of them had backgrounds
01:03:46that led them down the path that they went granted they are predators many of
01:03:51them maybe not sexually but they're spiritual predators many of them but I
01:03:57know and I I have I was close friends with William Branham's son maybe not as
01:04:02close as other people but he was a good friend of mine I I cried real tears when
01:04:06he died and that man is responsible if if you look at a from a Christian
01:04:12standpoint that man is responsible for several people who went completely away
01:04:17from real Christianity into this cult and this was not what you would consider
01:04:23as a good person by Christian standards but he was trapped into it also he was
01:04:29the son of the man who's doing the same thing I feel sorry for him yeah that's
01:04:33where it's so messy it gets so messy whenever it says the abused become
01:04:37abusers it's like these like mid-tier executives if you will in these
01:04:43organizations and it's it's like at what point does the culpability
01:04:47change hands and I don't think it's a question any of us can answer but we
01:04:53become that because that's what we were taught I mean I did some things to
01:04:57people that I had to apologize for later on I remember I had this one
01:05:03friend who back to the drinking found out that he was he was drinking he was
01:05:08I hop you student as I hop you we have to sign these agreements and we were
01:05:12trying to help this guy and I don't even think he was abusing alcohol but I
01:05:16didn't even have the the competency to know what alcohol abuse was I thought if
01:05:20you took a sip of alcohol it was alcohol abuse you know and this guy had like a
01:05:24six-pack in his fridge just like what it was so like I mean obviously if you
01:05:27drank all that at one time you'd probably have a good time but like I
01:05:30that's not what he was doing every day and it's probably very similar I can't
01:05:35remember if that was when we were talking here in this this recording or
01:05:38not but whenever you're talking about sipping alcohol and it helping your head
01:05:41like I mean it could have very well been something like that for this kid but the
01:05:46administrators found out and somehow me and my my roommates got pegged as the
01:05:51people to rehabilitate this guy and I remember he kept going back to alcohol
01:05:56kept going back to alcohol and I remember I was standing outside the
01:05:59music academy in the parking lot talking to this guy and I was just dumbfounded I
01:06:03couldn't figure out I'd gone to his house and poured out the beer in his
01:06:07front lawn with him watching he moved in with us at our house and he still
01:06:12couldn't stay away from alcohol so I'm sitting up there and I'm like man dude
01:06:16like I don't know what else to do I guess according to the Bible I'm
01:06:19supposed to hand you over to Satan I wasn't I wasn't just my jovial self I
01:06:26was dead serious like we're gonna have to hand you over to Satan because we
01:06:28don't know what to do with you and it's just it's it's crazy how you end up
01:06:34becoming a part of that system you do you end up abusing people yourself and
01:06:39it's something we all have to reckon with yeah it's hard and and I can't
01:06:43imagine being a minister and that's usually the last resort when they give
01:06:48up on you they will do this I'll turn you over to Satan we've been in real
01:06:52churches now where the minister some of the people man they can be pains but he
01:06:59tries to bear through it and you know how many times are you supposed to
01:07:04forgive them 70 times 7 I don't know that he's made it that far yet but you
01:07:09know who knows but so if you could say something to encourage people who have
01:07:15been in the IHOP or similar cults and have escaped what would you say to
01:07:20encourage them I think just just stay the course like listen to other people's
01:07:27experiences share your experiences with people who've done similar things there's
01:07:33tons of support communities and things out there to where you can find online
01:07:37if it wasn't for thank God for the pandemic that taught us all how to be
01:07:41friends on the internet without actually meeting in person that's opened
01:07:45up so many relationships for me I don't have hardly any friends here in
01:07:49Virginia Beach from being honest that I hang out with regularly but I have so
01:07:52many friends I'm on the phone with all the time or in Facebook chats with and
01:07:57find find those people who've experienced similar things as you and
01:08:01asking the same questions as you and and be gracious with yourself be very kind
01:08:07to yourself like you said earlier that you know it seems like the cults go
01:08:12after the intelligent people like it's not the the it's not the run-of-the-mill
01:08:17folks that fall for it sometimes it's the sincere the wholehearted and whatever
01:08:22your belief about God is now like if you still believe in God I think God sees
01:08:25that and honors that still I think that that you know those reaches that are in
01:08:29your heart for good and kindness and love that's still in your heart and
01:08:34that's not you know it doesn't just go away because you realized it was all a
01:08:38cult like you can still love and be kind and hold on to those things but don't do
01:08:44it alone because it's miserable alone I spent two years sick cuz I tried to do
01:08:49it alone disabled find some friends and it'll be a whole lot easier
01:08:55that's very good advice I'm so glad that you came on to share your story with
01:09:00others and I'm certain you'll be encouragement to other people so thank
01:09:03you so much for doing this absolutely thank you John well if you've enjoyed
01:09:08our show and you want more information you can check us out on the web you can
01:09:11find us at William dash Branham org for an overview of the historical research
01:09:16of William Branham and the healing revivals read preacher behind the white
01:09:20hoods a critical examination of William Branham and his message available on
01:09:25Amazon Kindle and audible
01:09:33you
01:10:03you
01:10:33you