Faith Assembly 2024 Update Part 1 - Episode 169 Branham Research - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/branham   Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   John and Chino discuss his recent meeting with members of the Faith Assembly, a controversial religious group. The conversation explores the connections between William Branham, Hobart Freeman, and the Faith Assembly, highlighting Branham’s teachings' influence on Freeman and the subsequent doctrinal and cultural impact on the Assembly’s members. Key themes include the scrutiny and criticism faced by the Assembly, the personal anecdotes of engagement with former ministers and members, and the ongoing challenges of addressing past controversies and doctrinal inconsistencies.  Notable points include the hosts’ reflections on their interactions with former Faith Assembly ministers, who shared their experiences and the psychological and doctrinal struggles they faced. The narrative underscores the complexities of leaving a religious group with rigid doctrines and the psychological toll it takes on individuals. Additionally, the discussion touches upon the broader implications of cult-like behavior in religious movements and the importance of addressing past errors and inconsistencies to move forward constructively.  Chino's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@chinodross  00:00 Introduction 02:01 Visiting Faith Assembly Members 05:28 Connection Between William Branham and Hobart Freeman 09:56 Perspectives on Cult Movements 13:32 Comparing Similar Cult Patterns 19:00 Leaving the Faith Assembly 25:53 Internal Practices and Leadership of Faith Assembly 32:26 Efforts to Contact Former Ministers 37:01 Interview with Former Ministers 44:42 Embracing Historical Mistakes and Moving Forward 48:02 Identifying and Addressing Doctrinal Issues 52:29 Challenges in Leadership and Accountability 58:00 Cult Personality Disorder and Rational Thought 1:00:03 Conclusion and Next Steps  ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00:00You

00:00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research

00:00:35podcast. I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham

00:00:40historical research at william-branham.org and with me I have my

00:00:45co-host minister and friend Cheno Ross pastor and the voice of understanding

00:00:51scripture and truth by Cheno D Ross YouTube channel and together we are

00:00:56discussing today the meeting that Cheno had between former members of the Faith

00:01:03Assembly and and his visit there so it's going to be an unusual episode but

00:01:07Cheno you and I've talked about this a bit before you went and after you know

00:01:13after you came back it's really interesting history and it puts things

00:01:18into a perspective that honestly you're not going to find too many examples of

00:01:24this out there people who are engaging the critics and then the you know the

00:01:31aftermath of what happened I the interesting we have not talked about

00:01:35this yet but I also received a email and ended up having a hour-long phone call

00:01:42not in the same exact way that you but also with a person who was skeptical of

00:01:47my information and I think the timing of those two come together pretty well I'll

00:01:52I'll share that with you as we get into this but tell us you know tell us a

00:01:57little bit about what happened whenever you went to have your visit with the

00:02:01people from Faith Assembly well you know John before I left I asked you and

00:02:06several other friends of mine completely in jest people have to understand my

00:02:11humor but I said if I don't return and they find a body floating in the river

00:02:15will you please come and identify body parts that is nothing but humor on my

00:02:21part I didn't suspect anything but generosity and hospitality from these

00:02:29men and that's exactly what I received but you know we're talking about

00:02:33something 40 years old so it's it's really nice when you can insert into

00:02:38this long historical dialogue you know something that is new and fresh

00:02:45something that is hot off the press and so how this came about was through

00:02:52obviously these podcasts of yours John and even the ones you had been doing

00:02:56long before you and I ever hooked up but after we had done a few of them I

00:03:01received a message on messenger on June the 28th of this year from an ex-Faith

00:03:11Assembly minister let me say to preface everything the people at Faith Assembly

00:03:19the vast majority like a hundred and one percent of them never heard my name and

00:03:25do not know who I am and did not know who I was back then that is not not true

00:03:31of the ministers even the ministers that I had never met and they had never met

00:03:37me in person they all knew who I was and it was simply because from you know

00:03:45when I was in my 20s back in the 80s prior to Dr. Freeman's death and post

00:03:50his death I was an outside critic of Faith Assembly and Hobart Freeman and

00:03:57the message even though I had been a part of it you know I when I was in my

00:04:02teenage years if Dr. Freeman said it I believed it that's all it took because I

00:04:09believed everything he was teaching was biblically based and I believed

00:04:13everything but I slowly grew away from what I felt then and still feel today

00:04:19are the erroneous parts of his interpretation of the Bible and just

00:04:24came to a lot better view of Scripture but I received this message on messenger

00:04:30from one of these ministers who said hey Cheno I really appreciated your last

00:04:35podcast with John Collins thanks for sharing all that so to get that from an

00:04:42ex-Faith Assembly minister who was way up in the hierarchy there was you know a

00:04:50pretty big deal that let me know people out there were listening to it so I just

00:04:54responded to him and said I appreciate the comment hope you'll continue to

00:04:57listen then on July the 5th I missed a call from him the same man and just had

00:05:05to listen to a voicemail that was all broken up I couldn't even make it out

00:05:09because he was in a bad reception area so I called him back he called me back

00:05:17we kept dropping the call but we ended up having an hour and 27 minute phone

00:05:22conversation on that day which was July the 5th and a couple of things came from

00:05:28that one he had a question and this is only something that you can really

00:05:34answer but he had a question for me because our first podcast was making a

00:05:40connection between William Branham and Hobart Freeman and he was just wondering

00:05:47what that connection really was you know I had explained I believe that he

00:05:53was heavily influenced by Branham's teaching on just in so many different

00:05:59areas but was there anything else that anything else you know of any kind of

00:06:06correspondence or back-and-forth or anything between the Branham camp and

00:06:11dr. Freeman you know besides personal testimony that I'm not yet allowed to

00:06:17share there's nothing that I can find documented the without giving the

00:06:24person's name I think I can probably say this Hobart Freeman had subscribed to a

00:06:29lot of materials that came from William Branham's campaign team and you

00:06:34probably you know being involved you probably aware he had some sermons by

00:06:39William Branham etc in his collection if you go to my website and you just

00:06:45type in Hobart Freeman in the search you'll see the research that we are able

00:06:49to publish minus that testimony which I again I cannot give that testimony now

00:06:55and outside of him teaching the same exact thing that William Branham taught

00:07:00using the same platform for divine healing and being connected to like the

00:07:08full gospel businessman which is one of the last organizations that sponsored

00:07:12William Branham's meetings after William Branham was deemed a heretic by the

00:07:17whole rest of the evangelical community Hobart was a part of that group which

00:07:22supported him and Hobart's church was I want to say it was like almost a bike

00:07:27rides distance from the Branham tabernacle wasn't that far it might be

00:07:3210 miles something like that so he's in the area they're in the same evangelical

00:07:38communities there there are a lot of a lot of ways in which he could come in

00:07:43contact with Branham's materials outside of the testimony I cannot link them

00:07:48directly so I did publish the research that I am able to but you know one of

00:07:54the things that I found is that whenever people are in these types of movements

00:08:00they have a perspective and that perspective oddly may not even match the

00:08:06perspective of the person who's sitting in the seat next to them one of the

00:08:10examples that I give for this is William Branham had the sermon that he claimed

00:08:16he was drawing on a chalkboard the so-called church ages and he claimed

00:08:21that God wrote on the board which is an outlandish claim if you think of this

00:08:26and I know people you know my my grandfather is the one who led the

00:08:31Branham tabernacle for 50 years I know people who were there during the event

00:08:34and I've talked to people who truly believe that God himself came down and

00:08:40he wrote on the chalkboard other people said that no they there was a light and

00:08:46it was the light was God and the gut the light lit up the chalkboard while other

00:08:51people there said that you know I was there I didn't see anything unusual

00:08:55there was a the building sits on the corner of two roads he said the person

00:09:00who spoke to me said I did see that some headlights you know from a car passing

00:09:05by came in the window another person was there and saw nothing no disturbance in

00:09:11the crowd whatsoever and then after the meeting everybody wasn't talking about

00:09:15God coming down in the building and writing on the chalkboard they were

00:09:19saying well where we're gonna go to eat brother I'm hungry so you've got all of

00:09:24these different perspectives and when you're when you're in this kind of

00:09:27movement you try to separate separate your perspective especially from other

00:09:34cults that cult is different than our cult we're not the same and so you make

00:09:39these you you build a wall of separation around your perspective so what I'm

00:09:45trying to say is this from a person who is never in that who is in something

00:09:50similar it looks if it looks like a duck walks like a duck talks like a duck

00:09:56right it's you know from somebody on the outside they can see it clearly but from

00:10:01somebody who may have been involved or was in involved there's this mental

00:10:06block from trying from being able to understand that no this was a clone of

00:10:11many other things and you can identify a hundred different clones that are just

00:10:16like it and I follow what you're saying I think the question directed at me

00:10:20was probably did I feel like there was that there was a conscious effort or

00:10:28attempt on Hobart's part to be the next William Branham and I said I don't

00:10:34really think that I didn't hear him say that I was I have been able to to trace

00:10:41a lot of his doctrines his latter reign his end time army so his teaching that

00:10:50denigrates women just so many things do and his view on the Trinity do go back

00:10:58to William Branham and we are and we know that William Branham felt he was

00:11:02if not a probably we need the definite article the end time messenger whether

00:11:10he was Elijah or whether he was the seventh angel you know he he was the

00:11:15end time messenger he obviously wasn't because he died but I have given quotes

00:11:21and timestamp from Hobart's messages where Hobart said God has revealed to

00:11:28them to him and other people about him that he has revealed the full faith

00:11:35message to only one man so I mean that's not saying Elijah or seventh angel but

00:11:44it's I mean it's still saying the same thing right that I am the last one well

00:11:51and it matches a pattern to I think another thing people who come into this

00:11:55you know they don't see the connection so they really haven't dug deeply but if

00:12:00you look at all of the groups that splintered from William Branham and even

00:12:04not just William Branham go back before this time to Dowey Frank Sanford Parham

00:12:10all of these guys they were teaching this framework that could allow an end

00:12:16time messenger and they were this Elijah ministry for example they were teaching

00:12:20that the Elijah was coming to restore the church to you know take the church

00:12:26prepare the church for the rapture etc and so men became delusional and they

00:12:33saw themselves to be this figure whether they use the term Elijah or not they

00:12:37were a restore of some kind well this happened over and over and over Branham

00:12:42got caught up in the same hype after Branham died we have examined you know I

00:12:48lost count of the number but many many different splinter groups who taught

00:12:52everything you just mentioned the divine healing manifested sons of God literally

00:12:57everything Branham taught but they were the answer to the end time church they

00:13:03were the the central figure who is supposed to prepare the truth or

00:13:07whatever they whatever is their platform so it matches a pattern and I think

00:13:12that's that's the more important part than even even if they had connected had

00:13:17Hobart not matched the pattern that Branham was establishing and following I

00:13:22would say the two are disconnected because they just met and so so they

00:13:26were in some sermons together who cares but the fact that Hobart matched that

00:13:30pattern tells me that there's a lot more there than meets the eye yeah I

00:13:34think you're right and I think any whoever the new one is on the scene

00:13:38always feels like I'm here to purify the one that just came just before me even

00:13:43though I hold a lot of the same tenants as my predecessor I have a better view

00:13:49of it they quote quote got off they got off I'm not getting off and I'm gonna

00:13:55purify that well anyway that I think was a question asked me that was one of

00:14:00the reasons for the phone call from one of the ex ministers but we had a

00:14:06fruitful conversation and as the conversation progressed I was very

00:14:12interested in seeing whether or not he and others would be willing to do a

00:14:19meeting and they suggested a zoom and I said how about a face-to-face I love

00:14:25face-to-face meetings although I don't mind zooming with you all the time I

00:14:29love face-to-face meetings and so you know he said well yeah let's set up one

00:14:35and what's the point or what's the purpose and I said well the first

00:14:39purpose is I would like to interview you that was the stated goal I would like if

00:14:44you're willing I'd like to interview you since you became one of maybe not

00:14:51one of the leader of Faith Assembly in its post Freeman days I'd like to

00:14:56interview you about the transition and so I you know I know I think I know a

00:15:03lot of what happened because I have other sources but I'd like to interview

00:15:09you and then he said yes let's do that and I said if anything's confidential

00:15:13it's confidential you just tell me that and and I'll keep it to myself and then

00:15:19we also kind of tossed around the idea big because I think he is as concerned

00:15:28and interested he and they as I am of helping the Faith Assembly survivors and

00:15:35by the way let me just say that he has rejected these strange and odd and weird

00:15:42things that dr. Freeman taught and what those are you know we could just give a

00:15:46list of them but the medical science stuff in particular they have rejected

00:15:53the extreme view that he taught as well as just this whole elitist cultish kind

00:15:59of approach that Hobart took to everything so they recognize that there

00:16:05are people out there because these men have gone in other directions of good

00:16:11Christian ministry they are not as in touch with ex-Faith Assembly people as I

00:16:18am or you are with X so he was flabbergasted to realize how much hurt

00:16:25and how real it is 40 years later how raw it is I get on these I talked to

00:16:35these people and I read their post or they send me messages on messenger or

00:16:39emails or they call or text me and when you have been it's just so powerful John

00:16:46when you have been locked in this institutional control of a religious

00:16:51cult where they have dictated not only your doctrines but how you think and how

00:16:58you process things how you view the world around you and they have this

00:17:04coded language that they all use you can't talk about deviled eggs they have

00:17:10to be stuffed eggs they have they have they have manipulated all of your

00:17:17language as soon as you put the brakes on hard to avoid an accident the blood

00:17:21of Jesus is the first thing out of your mouth and they still these people have

00:17:29affinity to that have complex problems with things like that 40 years later

00:17:37that's not normal when you leave a Baptist Church and decide to go to

00:17:41another Baptist Church or you leave a Methodist Church and decide to join a

00:17:45Presbyterian Church you don't carry weird baggage like that with you there's

00:17:52some doctrinal distinctions that you're gonna surrender and adopt but you don't

00:17:57you don't carry this schizophrenic split personality with you unless you

00:18:05have come out of one of these one of these movements one of these cults and I

00:18:10just say that's what has been such a huge problem with faith assembly I've

00:18:16been away from it so long that I don't deal with that but people who are fresh

00:18:23out of it are people who haven't purged themselves thoroughly enough even if

00:18:27they've been out of it for several decades I just think continue to

00:18:32struggle with things like that I just heard from a friend of yours this

00:18:38weekend who was a minister this was so interesting to me and I think you might

00:18:42have told me this before but it just didn't register and then I'll leave the

00:18:46Branham subject alone here but he was a minister in a church whose name was

00:18:54faith assembly and he said that was the main name and that was the name of our

00:19:00churches was faith assembly listen people out there this is no coincidence

00:19:06that Hobart named his church faith assembly no it's not you know you talk

00:19:13about leaving I'll never forget we actually left a Baptist Church we when

00:19:18we left the message one of the things that we just started trying out churches

00:19:22and one of the ones that we stayed at for a length of time was a Baptist Church

00:19:28and when we decided that it wasn't for us I'll never forget the fear we had

00:19:33this fear of leaving because we had been indoctrinated to fear leaving and we

00:19:39thought everybody's gonna snap out at a lash out at us and they were gonna

00:19:43rebuke us from the platform like they do in these cult churches and we left and

00:19:47everybody's well you know I'm really sad to see you go I hope you like your new

00:19:51church John I was floored man that's that's that's not normal that's not at

00:19:56least in my world that wasn't normal and I'm still friends I still go out you

00:20:01know have lunch or dinner with friends that I met there and it's just so

00:20:05different and that caused me to reflect on what we left and what we left was so

00:20:13odd I started to I'm a big sci-fi fan I think I've told you this I love these

00:20:18recurring themes of time travel and you know anything to do with time and it's

00:20:24like the there's a recurring theme in the sci-fi slash horror where people are

00:20:29stuck in a certain era and you probably I don't know if you've seen movies like

00:20:33this but it's it's as though we were stuck in the 1960s and the cult that we

00:20:38were in we dress like we act like we talk like it you mentioned you can't say

00:20:43deviled eggs well the language of the 60s if you vary from that and you enter

00:20:48modern things that people commonly say in language it's rebuked you know and

00:20:54worse than that stuck in the 60s back in the 60s people had a concept of history

00:21:00they would you know history is what makes people reflect and change for the

00:21:07better hopefully for the better and without history you're doomed to make

00:21:11the same mistakes well these cults erase their history and then they try to

00:21:16ignore that it even exists and so you end up being stuck in that time frame

00:21:21and it really shapes the way that people think about the cult and the way that

00:21:26they reflect and back to the point we were making earlier it also builds this

00:21:31this isolation of you know the invisible cult walls around your mind where you

00:21:38can't recognize other cults and the similarities between yours and theirs

00:21:42because you're you're literally isolated in your head Wow John they're just so

00:21:48much I mean we don't you and I could talk forever we could bore people silly

00:21:52or we could educate them incredibly about all of this yeah it's not just the

00:21:57doctrines at Faith Assembly it was that spirit and atmosphere yeah whenever you

00:22:02leave Faith Assembly it doesn't matter why you leave you're on bad terms

00:22:08you're on bad terms as soon as you leave I remember reading a post of a

00:22:11woman and her husband who had been a follower of Dr. Freeman they lived in

00:22:16New York State and decided like a lot of people did yeah I think the Lord's

00:22:21calling us to move there we don't want to just get tapes on the automatic tape

00:22:25mailing list we want to be there at the church at the Glory Barn or this was at

00:22:29Wilmot at the new building and so they packed up and moved moved to Faith

00:22:34Assembly as a whole lot of people did they stayed for six months and just

00:22:40decided we we really don't think we love Faith Assembly but we really think we

00:22:46don't need to be here they decided they were going to return to Indiana she said

00:22:51after a service she and her husband went up to tell Dr. Freeman because you all

00:22:55people would stand in line and you'd have a few minutes to converse with him

00:22:58before he'd go through a door behind the pulpit back into his office down some

00:23:02steps into his Lincoln or Cadillac and out the garage door out the back of the

00:23:07church she said we went up to share that with him and she said we just feel like

00:23:13you know we love you we love the word the pure uncompromising word that's

00:23:18being preached here but we just feel like the Lord wants us to go back to

00:23:22New York and she said when they shared that with Hobart he did this well okay

00:23:31that's what you feel the Lord wants you to do she said he just turned his face

00:23:37away from us and just said okay and she said that was the weirdest thing you

00:23:44know you would expect from your pastor thank you so much for being here and

00:23:51we're gonna miss you and we're gonna pray for you and God bless you and we

00:23:55don't want all the truth and all the good people living right here in

00:23:59Indiana we want them scattered out everywhere we'll pray for you know you'd

00:24:03expect something normal and it's when you leave that group I'm telling you it

00:24:10was not normal at all as you described earlier you leave a normal church and go

00:24:14somewhere else your friends you know they follow you you know with phone

00:24:19calls but not this group man you leave this group you have rejected salvation

00:24:26you have rejected God's message and his messenger and you know it's like they

00:24:31don't even care what happened to what happens to you from then on out if for

00:24:36no other reason even if you don't see all the doctrinal problems something

00:24:41like that just normal Christian hospitality just normal human

00:24:46hospitality and friendliness when you see that lacking that's a serious that

00:24:53is as serious in my mind as any kind of doctrinal thing because the early church

00:24:58was known for their love and for their generosity and for their hospitality so

00:25:04it's very demonic that's my that's my conclusion whenever they treat people

00:25:09like that it is a demonic influence I'll keep the names of the ministers

00:25:14confidential and by the way they didn't ask for that but I guess I will do that

00:25:19for now and we'll see what comes of it they shared various things with me I

00:25:24asked them we sat around the table in the conference room I asked them if

00:25:30anything is confidential tell me and I will keep it close to my heart and they

00:25:38there was nothing confidential now there were a few stories they told maybe I'll

00:25:44relate one of these where the minister who told me said I don't mind you

00:25:48telling this story just don't use my name as a source of it and and so I

00:25:55guess in sharing this story the other if there are other ex-faith assembly

00:26:02ministers listening then they will know the validity of all this because the

00:26:06only people who would know this would be ministers but as I said in just a few

00:26:12moments ago Hobart was up on the platform behind the podium when he got

00:26:17through there was a door behind the podium that led into just a little

00:26:22anteroom where he had a couch and a chair and a table and a bathroom and

00:26:29then he would leave when it was time for him to leave then when he came and when

00:26:35he left he didn't have to see anybody he didn't have to walk among all of us

00:26:41schmucks out there he could pull in his Cadillac it was a garage door he came

00:26:46right in the back of the big metal new building building he'd get out of his

00:26:52car walk up some steps go in his office no one saw him he saw no one no one saw

00:26:58him he stayed in that little room until it was his time to preach and then he

00:27:03had opened a door behind the podium and come out Jerry Irvin or whoever was

00:27:09leading worship would you know finish up a song or two and then dr. Freeman would

00:27:13and then the reverse of that is true when he was speaking so that little room

00:27:18behind the pulpit and podium was a little meeting room if he needed to have

00:27:22a meeting with a couple of congregants or with some ministers so on one

00:27:27occasion and he had meetings all the time back there but on this particular

00:27:30occasion a lot of the ministers and this was late this was probably 1984 the the

00:27:38top-tier ministers who had bigger followings bigger meetings and therefore

00:27:44bigger income were taking all of these hunting and fishing trips and it was

00:27:51just fun you know they were rock stars they'd get to go hunting elk here and

00:27:55bear there and on this fishing trip and that fishing trip and what was what was

00:28:00funny and you can hear it on their sermons you know they had copied their

00:28:04mentor when Hobart just he would pick a verse and then he'd just talk about his

00:28:09life for 20 minutes after that like let's get back to the verse we were

00:28:13supposed to talk about he would just tell stories they had learned that

00:28:17Hobart wasn't a hunter but they were so they'd tell the hunting story that I

00:28:21shot him at 233 yards and it was not a double lung shot and but there was blood

00:28:28and so we blood trailed him and he went over this ravine and through this thicket

00:28:34and there was a lot of that going on in the messages Hobart called ministers

00:28:41meeting and got those ministers back there and said you got to stop all this

00:28:45stuff preach the preacher message and leave all of these bloody and gory

00:28:50details out so I just share that to let people know that this was a minister at

00:28:58this meeting who also was in that meeting with dr. Freeman when he relayed

00:29:05all this to them the funny part of what you just said for all of the people who

00:29:09were in the William Branham cult who heard what you just said if you take

00:29:13Hobart Freeman's name out you're describing the Branham churches to the

00:29:18letter and it goes again it goes back to our earlier earlier point if it looks

00:29:23like a duck quacks like a duck smells like a duck my grandfather also copied

00:29:29that pattern from William Branham and when grandpa drove up to the church he

00:29:33had his escorts take him into that little room where he could hold his

00:29:37meetings with the businessmen and that's where he stayed you could not approach

00:29:42my grandfather when he was entering the building or when he was leaving the

00:29:47difference is grandpa did not drive a Cadillac he he did for a period of time

00:29:52have a Jaguar but he you know after a while he realized that people are going

00:29:58to realize that this makes him look like he's got a lot of money and so to to

00:30:03avoid that he sold it and got an Oldsmobile which was it was a nice

00:30:07Oldsmobile but they had the same exact pattern and they would escort you into

00:30:12this little room and if you had any private conversations with outside

00:30:16ministers or whatever it occurred in that room where nobody could hear them

00:30:21have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the

00:30:25progression of modern Pentecostalism transition through the latter reign

00:30:30charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic Reformation you

00:30:35can learn this and more on William Branham historical researches website

00:30:39William dash Branham org on the books page of the website you can find the

00:30:45compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley Stephen Montgomery John

00:30:50McKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each

00:30:55book you can also find resources and documentation on various people and

00:31:00topics related to those movements if you want to contribute to the cause you can

00:31:05support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top and as

00:31:09always be sure to LIKE and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're

00:31:14listening to or watching on behalf of William Branham historical research we

00:31:19want to thank you for your support the similarities are just fascinating John

00:31:25you know and I only know Freeman and Faith Assembly I don't know Branham and

00:31:31message and your grandfather the similarities are just amazing I think I

00:31:38will share a text however of that I sent to another high high-ranking ex-Faith

00:31:46Assembly minister because his name is going to come up his name as well as

00:31:53another former high-ranking ministers that did meet we all discussed should we

00:31:59try to contact these two men these two probably above any of the others have

00:32:08not come out and publicly repudiated and what everyone also wants apologize

00:32:17for their role in the past one of them has definitely drifted far away both

00:32:22have drifted far away one will admit it and one won't but anyway when you and I

00:32:27began our podcast once we had done a few of them I have been friends with Jeff

00:32:35Barnett for a long time Jeff Barnett actually came to my church one time

00:32:40years ago I had him in as a speaker because I wanted this was post Hobart

00:32:46Freeman's death now everybody who knows Faith Assembly John knows exactly who

00:32:51Jeff Barnett is Jeff Barnett goes back to the very beginning

00:32:55Hobart reached over a podium like in a home meeting and prophesied to Jeff

00:33:00Barnett gave him his ministry with the famous razor's-edge prophecy that you

00:33:07will cut a line so fine it'll be like a razor's-edge you'll be able to separate

00:33:12truth from error and that is so far from truth let me just say let me just say

00:33:18and I may be hated by some people I hope I'm not hated by Jeff but let me just

00:33:24say that that is a false prophecy as false as a summer day is long because

00:33:31Jeff has not been able to do that when you and I began in these podcasts I sent

00:33:36a I sent a text message to Jeff and I said this I sent this on June the 29th I

00:33:44just wanted to let you know that I'm in a series of podcasts concerning Hobart

00:33:49Freeman Faith Assembly and its other ministries it is all a part of John

00:33:53Collins historical research into the cult of William Branham John Collins

00:33:59grandfather was the pastor of the Branham Tabernacle and his podcast can

00:34:04be found on his YouTube channel these interviews are receiving a lot of

00:34:10attention on the various Faith Assembly and Hobart Freeman social media

00:34:16platforms if there are any items you would like to share with me or discuss I

00:34:23would be happy to talk with you the last time I talked with Jeff was last year we

00:34:28had a conversation about things in the past and about the breakup of Faith

00:34:33Assembly and Jeff has gone his own way and I don't I love Jeff I don't hold

00:34:38anything against Jeff but I didn't get any response from that I really didn't

00:34:44think that I would but I wanted to give him the opportunity he was one of the

00:34:49ranking ministers what I call tier one the tier one ministers were Hobart's

00:34:56sons-in-law and Jeff Barnett and a couple of other guys those were tier one

00:35:01ministers after Hobart died and things got a little shaky at Faith Assembly

00:35:06Jeff started a church down in Acton which is outside Indianapolis and I mean

00:35:12they built their own building this wasn't a little home church or meeting

00:35:16in the basement of the bank building up in Milwaukee Wisconsin as a meeting

00:35:20years ago did or the room underneath or above the fish store the exotic fish

00:35:25store this was their own building and he had quite a following now he's lost all

00:35:30of that following and he has I think become maybe in Assemblies of God

00:35:35minister now he's gone his own path but he still feels just like Hobart would

00:35:41say I still believe God William Branham is God's prophet because if you cut

00:35:45Branham out you know you're cutting a lot of your own stuff out Barnett has

00:35:49said to this day well yeah brother Freeman this he might have but he was

00:35:54still God's prophet you know he absolutely because you know since you've

00:35:58got your ministry from that man since Hobart got his ministry through Branham

00:36:03and through Anna Schrader you know you can't go back and cut these people out

00:36:08because you know you you cut your own mooring you cut the beginning to your

00:36:12own ministry so before I walked into this meeting with these ministers I

00:36:17sent Jeff another text and said I'm going into a meeting shortly with ex

00:36:21faith assembly ministers he didn't know that this you know that we had actually

00:36:26come upon a meeting together I'm gonna interview them about their experiences

00:36:31from the past would love for you to be a part of it join us let me know if you

00:36:37would be open to any frank and honest conversations and I noticed as I sent

00:36:42the text you know you can look on your text message and it immediately said

00:36:47READ read he read it immediately but I did not get any response from him and I

00:36:55was disappointed I would like to have I would like to have as many people there

00:36:59as possible but you know we just that just didn't happen the other one that I

00:37:05would like to have there is one of his Hobart's son-in-law Steve Hill Steve

00:37:11Hill goes back to the very beginning Steve Hill was preaching in the little

00:37:16coffee shop at the glory barn the Friday night meeting before they ever moved the

00:37:21church from its previous location to the glory barn that Steve was Steve goes way

00:37:26way way back and I I feel I feel some sympathy for Steve I'm trying to be

00:37:35sympathetic but I just want to be but I want to be totally upfront no holes

00:37:44barred I mean these are people's lives not only as Steve and his wife Pam who

00:37:50was Hobart's daughter and their sons Jonathan and Lance not only are these

00:37:54people's lives you know involved but so are hundreds and thousands of other

00:37:59people and so sometimes I might get criticized for well you're not

00:38:04sympathetic towards Steve Hill and I want to be sympathetic but there's

00:38:09thousands there's hundreds and literally thousands of other people that you have

00:38:12to be sympathetic to also and the ministers we ministers I was one of them

00:38:19but I wasn't there and I would definitely wasn't a tier one I'm like a

00:38:22peer one import is what I was when it comes to those guys there they had

00:38:30everything going for them they had big followings big audiences big incomes and

00:38:36so to have been a part I mean here's where we here's where we have to lay

00:38:42down the law to have been a part of that important leadership and to have parroted

00:38:50what Hobart said and every single one of them did there's no exception and

00:38:55they can't deny that if they do they're not being honest they took what he said

00:39:00and they parroted that and they had their little following which was really

00:39:05underneath Hobart's overarching following and the damage was done to all

00:39:10and people want accountability they don't even want you to apologize at the

00:39:16end of the day what they want you to do is say this is what I taught and I

00:39:20was wrong that's all you have to do it's just basic Christian integrity and

00:39:25transparency but people change their address and change their tune and and

00:39:31change the clothes that they wear and change their message but they haven't

00:39:37dealt with the past and that's what critically lacking here these ministers

00:39:43have to deal with the past and you and I talked before going on the air of

00:39:46someone you know who is who is dealing with you know just their own some

00:39:53personal guilt involved and you know we all have if we've ever been a public

00:39:58speaker you've taught something wrong you can't teach more than three messages

00:40:02and not have said something wrong and you look at someone like me John I've

00:40:07got over 2,000 messages I've got more than twice as many messages online as

00:40:12Hobart had and most of those were done in my 20s you think you can find

00:40:17something wrong somewhere in those 2,000 messages Oh Lord have mercy Lord please

00:40:22forgive me you know but what my claim is Lord you know help me grow and where I

00:40:30was wrong I will willingly and freely admit it but I'm not I can't go back and

00:40:34scrub 2300 that's what would required what I'm hoping is that people will

00:40:41hear sincerity through it all and they'll hear something off the wall when

00:40:46they listen to go man that's crazy I sure hope that guy doesn't believe that

00:40:50kind of stuff anymore and their assumption will probably be right I

00:40:56don't believe it anymore you know I've made more mistakes I think that I've got

00:41:01things right one of the problems that I have is I'm trying to piece together

00:41:04history that everybody has tried to cover up and when you do that you're

00:41:08going to get more wrong than you do right until you get all the pieces of

00:41:12history and you know I've come to the conclusion that these guys and I'm not

00:41:18saying that the ones that you spoke to are like this maybe they are I don't

00:41:21know but like in the churches that I grew up in these people liked their

00:41:28favorite passages of scripture that had their agenda but the ones that might

00:41:33have questioned that agenda they completely not just ignored but swept

00:41:38it under the rug they would never mention it for example you know you've

00:41:44got in these Pentecostal style churches they love Corinthians 1st Corinthians 11

00:41:49because it talks about woman having long hair it's a glory for her and I've heard

00:41:55I literally can quote that entire passage start to finish from age 10 we

00:42:01heard it so many times but they never went to the next verse that says but we

00:42:06have no such custom neither do the churches of God the very next sentence

00:42:11says this and it leads you down pathways once you figure out they've covered up

00:42:17that verse you want to know why at least I do so that got me into studying the

00:42:22quotes of Dionysus and what this passage was actually referring to the the women

00:42:28I think they called them the main ads that had the long hair and they pull the

00:42:31bobby pins out and then go rip the flesh off of animals in this culture that Paul

00:42:37is writing to it's crazy stuff right but they do not like where I was heading

00:42:43with this is they do not like to engage the scripture of iron sharpening iron

00:42:47because it's uncomfortable when you come in contact with somebody who disagrees

00:42:52with you being able to handle that disagreement in a Christian way is

00:42:57difficult and it takes a real I know it's not politically correct to say this

00:43:03anymore but I'll say it anyway it takes a real man to stand up and do an iron

00:43:08sharpens iron debate with a Christian in a Christian way it and if you're female

00:43:14I'll say it takes a real woman so that I'm semi politically correct it's hard

00:43:19it's not easy and they do not like it so that leads me up to I told you at the

00:43:25beginning I was gonna share a story with you my podcast because William

00:43:31Branham was the central hub to all of these different cults not just the

00:43:34Freeman cult I mean right now I'm working with people from I hop I'm

00:43:38working with people from various different groups that they all can tie

00:43:43back to Branham in one way or another and I've I've been in contact with some

00:43:49very unbelievable people and organizations one of them is a latter

00:43:55reign organization that if I mention the name everybody their jaws would drop

00:43:59like you mean you're communicating with them in a positive way and the person

00:44:04I'm in contact with at that organization day to like the men that you described

00:44:10have moved in the right direction and they're abandoning all of the false

00:44:15nonsense and heretical teachings that they had in the past and I see that as a

00:44:21good process they embrace their history they don't cover it up they embrace it

00:44:27and they say that was wrong yes we did this and now we're moving on and we had

00:44:32a probably two one-hour phone calls about that and then just I want to say

00:44:39it was Saturday sometime last week I got this phone call from a person he had

00:44:45found some mistakes that I made years ago in my research and he called me and

00:44:51he was a little surprised because I got excited that he found it and he was like

00:44:58man I really didn't expect this reaction I thought you're gonna be angry with me

00:45:02and I'm like no man in fact I'm going to invite him to the podcast I think he's

00:45:07accepted but I'm going to invite him as an example this is how you embrace the

00:45:14things that you got wrong and move in the right direction so I'm gonna invite

00:45:18him on he's gonna I don't even know what they are yet but he's gonna tell the

00:45:21world the things that I got wrong about it's about a historical timeline it's

00:45:28it's some it's interesting stuff but the point I'm trying to make is when you

00:45:33make a mistake you correct it and you move on and the problem is I get a lot

00:45:38of I get a lot of people who try to push me in that direction with whatever

00:45:42programming they've had and they've not critically thought enough to even find

00:45:48the facts to support their wrong way of thinking they just want to argue they

00:45:53want to halt the critical thinking they do not like the iron sharpens iron

00:45:58scripture that's in the Bible John we're not going to get anywhere on this one

00:46:02today I hadn't I've got all these you tell me when we need to stop and we'll

00:46:08have to do another one we'll have part two we'll have part two you're exactly

00:46:14right because what I'm hearing from some people is well what purpose does it

00:46:18serve to keep reliving our past that's past serves a huge purpose if you

00:46:25haven't identified and cleaned up the mess from the past that's why we're

00:46:34still here had everyone identified had all the ministers clearly identified

00:46:39cleared up the mess yeah we are needing to move forward but you can actually do

00:46:47both simultaneously you can move forward and you should you cannot just live in

00:46:53the past but while you're moving forward you have by of these mistakes

00:46:59and all of this this weird stuff that Hobart Freeman taught you've got to

00:47:03identify that say that was wrong I'm not going to try to repackage it I'm not

00:47:09going to do what everyone does well he didn't really mean that look Hobart was

00:47:15an excellent communicator he knew how to communicate exactly what he meant but

00:47:21what he also was in addition to being an excellent communicator is he had a fork

00:47:27tongue he was slippery he knew how to say something so you knew that is what

00:47:33he meant without being able to quote him he did it on divorce and remarriage he

00:47:40did it on all kinds of topics where you couldn't then come back and quote him

00:47:45and say well you said that because technically he didn't say that but he

00:47:51danced around it in so many ways and said I'm sure you understand what I'm

00:47:57saying now it should be clear without me having to say he would say things like

00:48:02that all the time so that's what I mean Hobart was he was a skilled communicator

00:48:08John so don't give me that well people misinterpreted him you could not

00:48:14misinterpret him he was very clear he knew what he wanted to say he knew what

00:48:20he wanted you to believe he knew how to say what needed to be said to get you to

00:48:26believe what he wanted you to believe so there was not any possibility of

00:48:31misunderstanding that is just that is the old smokescreen the straw man

00:48:37argument that people are bringing up to protect Hobart no we need to go back and

00:48:43label one two three four and it'll be a long list let's label the items and

00:48:49let's deal with these let's uncover what Hobart was saying let's recover the

00:48:55biblical teaching on it let's all say we're good now and then we can move

00:49:00forward but until then it's just going to be this cycle of yes you're you're

00:49:06just going to have to you're just going to have to relive the past and so

00:49:11unfortunately Jeff Barnett's not willing to go back and do that his wife Cindy

00:49:16wrote a really cool book about their life together from pre-faith assembly to

00:49:21post and she has a few statements in there where you know they left Faith

00:49:25Assembly but and I and I can't blame Cindy because Jeff is the minister he's

00:49:31he's the husband he's the pastor he's a minister in that family and I don't know

00:49:36what Cindy's personal private thoughts and beliefs are unless they are the same

00:49:40as her husband's but you can't go against that and Jeff's not gonna

00:49:44distance himself say Hobart if he claimed and he did to be a prophet he's

00:49:49a false prophet and then no that doesn't mean everything he taught was wrong

00:49:52absolutely not there are some wonderful things you get from Hobart's teaching

00:49:57and a wonderful spirit you get a love of Scripture and of wanting to know the

00:50:03Bible and read the Bible and study the Bible and practice the Bible I mean you

00:50:08get that from his teachings especially his early ones and let's don't just be a

00:50:13Christian let's be the best Christian we can be let's pray let's fast let's look

00:50:19for the second advent I mean he did not want to be just a stick in the mud

00:50:24boring Christian or Christian minister and neither do I want to be that neither

00:50:28should any of us want to be that that that kind of message is wonderful to

00:50:34hear but it's those particular points and then when you codify that into your

00:50:40own well now here this is our denomination now we don't believe in

00:50:45denominationalism but but we are our own denominational system we don't believe

00:50:52in a final authority beyond Scripture right but we have dr. Freeman and if he

00:50:58ever said anything like he outlawed hunting in one of his last messages if

00:51:02he ever says anything that is above and beyond Scripture we're gonna follow what

00:51:07Scripture no no we're gonna follow the Pope the Pope of Faith Assembly so all

00:51:14these little things we don't believe in they brought it into their own church

00:51:18whenever they he was very opposed to the church being an organization and I

00:51:24understand that and I appreciate that in the New Testament the analogy Paul gives

00:51:29the basic one is a body a human body that we are the body of Christ so we're

00:51:35we are an organism we are not an organization and he stressed that and

00:51:40part of that is healthy and part of that is valid that we're not a business

00:51:45corporation organization we should be a living body where all of the members in

00:51:51our body are all in loving support and and relationship to one another that's

00:51:59all good but as they practiced it they had a list of ten requirements to be in

00:52:07fellowship with Faith Assembly that's your doctrinal statement you can say we

00:52:12don't have any doctrinal statement we don't have any we don't have membership

00:52:16here because membership to them was you're on a church role and that's

00:52:21filed in an office somewhere we don't believe in church membership we're a

00:52:25living organism here but we have our list of ten requirements to be in

00:52:31fellowship with Faith Assembly and you have to agree with these ten

00:52:36requirements and it would be things like pray for the ministry support the

00:52:41ministry financially listen to the two tapes on the restoration of the biblical

00:52:46roles of husband and wife read the charismatic body ministry book they had

00:52:51their own list and one of the things on the list you can't criticize the

00:52:56ministry touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm so you just find

00:53:03just just ridiculous absurd contradictions and inconsistencies

00:53:10throughout dr. Freeman's ministry that were unnecessary if he would have just

00:53:16stayed with this loving presentation a general presentation of the church is an

00:53:22organism in the New Testament it is not a business financial organization that

00:53:29would have been acceptable and wonderful and fine but when you harp on these

00:53:35things so harshly and you do it in such an exclusive way we don't have any of

00:53:41this crap if I can use that word we don't have any of this in our church

00:53:45we're pure church we're an undefiled church we're not like the other churches

00:53:50out there and then you have the exact same things you just call them something

00:53:55different then I'll say I'll play the card hypocrite that's hypocrisy to do

00:54:01that you know let's don't criticize those people for doing that and become a

00:54:07Pharisee of all Pharisees and find ways we can bring it in to our own midst and

00:54:12I and I don't mean it in an unloving spirit at all but you could not out

00:54:17Pharisee dr. Freeman he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees and you could not out

00:54:22Pharisee him he would have rules and some of which were pretty good rules but

00:54:28then he would invent ways around them such as the healing you know you can't

00:54:33wear eyeglasses you can't use insulin you can't go to the dentist even a

00:54:38broken bone you don't use medical science you don't use crutches if you're

00:54:44sick get up out of the bed act your faith and be healed that's what he

00:54:48taught but what did he practice he had a short right leg caused by polio when he

00:54:55was 16 months old and so rather than limp like this he's got a shoe with a

00:55:02lift in it where he only has a slight limp now you tell me an honest Christian

00:55:10person you tell me the difference between wearing that shoe with a lift in

00:55:16it for his limp while he's waiting for the healing of his polio to be

00:55:21manifested you tell me the difference between that and someone putting on a

00:55:26pair of eyeglasses while they're waiting for their poor vision healing to be

00:55:33manifested those are the problems John that we've got in our background with

00:55:37Hobart and Faith Assembly that have made just some of the common people out there

00:55:42who don't who aren't ministers who don't have all this fancy education but who

00:55:47have some street sense who've made them hopping mad as they look back on this

00:55:53mess they came from saying why did I ever believe all of this mess because

00:55:59not only was it in these regards number one wrong but number two it was filled

00:56:06with contradictions and inconsistencies you know it's really odd because it's

00:56:12not really just William Branham that Hobart apparently copied for the

00:56:17framework of his cult Branham was indoctrinated in the way of John

00:56:22Alexander Dowie he was trained by Gordon Lindsay who was born in Dowie's cult and

00:56:28he was trained doctrinally by FF Bosworth who is a strong leader in

00:56:33Dowie's cult and the interesting part here is that Dowie had the same exact

00:56:40doctrines towards medicine no medicine you're not allowed it no all medical

00:56:45sciences of the devil he would say and you can go you can find newspaper

00:56:49articles and even his own writings that declare this and then when FF Bosworth

00:56:54taught it to Branham the government had kind of stepped in you can't really deny

00:56:58people their health even in religion and so Branham had to tame it down and then

00:57:03Hobart decided to challenge that rule and he just carried it carried Dowie's

00:57:08torch really is what he did but you know you're talking about the men who were in

00:57:15it in the way they defend it I actually feel a little bit sorry for them

00:57:18including Hobart Freeman because the when you examine these types of

00:57:25personality cults the cult leader usually has some sort of a mental health

00:57:29disorder at minimum they have narcissistic personality disorder but

00:57:34sometimes there's other complications with this and whenever people are

00:57:39assimilated into this and they adopt the cult identity sometimes they take on

00:57:45those personality traits and you can go look this up on the internet it's called

00:57:49cult personality disorder that there are different medical terms for what you get

00:57:55whenever you're in these types of cults and it's very similar if you're talking

00:58:01to a person who has the cult personality disorder or somebody who has a severe

00:58:05mental health issue rational thought does not engage and I can't I encounter

00:58:13it time and time again when people write into me I usually respond to everyone

00:58:17who writes and they'll start with a boisterous claim by their cult leader

00:58:22often it's William Branham because that's my website but they'll give the

00:58:27claim without the proof of the claim because these cult leaders Hobart

00:58:32Freeman included they often wanted to make claims such that you had to prove

00:58:36it didn't happen which is much much harder than proving that it did and so

00:58:42they would say well there here's the claim prove that it didn't happen and

00:58:45then whenever you supply all of that evidence I'll just use a generic example

00:58:51Branham claimed that Enoch lived 500 years on earth and walked with Noah and

00:58:57therefore Enoch represented the elite Church of Branham's cult that got

00:59:02raptured away to the sky while Noah was doomed to suffer the tribulation because

00:59:08he was an imperfect vessel even though the Bible said that Noah was the most

00:59:13righteous person on the face of the planet well prove it didn't happen it's

00:59:18really hard you can't go back and prove but as you supply the evidence that

00:59:23really suggests that's not true in this case the Bible clearly says Enoch lived

00:59:28only 365 years on earth well when you give that response they go back in a

00:59:34circle back to yes but the Prophet said this prove it didn't happen and they've

00:59:40just totally ignored the whole rest of your conversation so you enter this loop

00:59:44that never ends and I've learned in my engaging with people who have the cult

00:59:49personality disorder I'll go two times through the loop and that's it I'll just

00:59:54say well it's nice talking to you move on I mean what else can you do they've

00:59:59been they've disengaged rational thought and I feel sorry for them because in

01:00:03many cases they really can't help it they're not even aware that they have

01:00:07this disorder but it is a disorder but anyway we're we're an hour into this and

01:00:14we're probably not even halfway through the stuff that you have so let's end it

01:00:18here and let's go to let's come back again next time and we'll go through

01:00:22part two so much more to tell and I'm so interested to get to it if you've

01:00:27enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the

01:00:30web you can find us at William dash Branham org for an overview of the

01:00:35historical research of William Branham and the healing revivals read preacher

01:00:39behind the white hoods a critical examination of William Branham and his

01:00:43message available on Amazon Kindle and audible

01:01:13you

01:01:43you

Faith Assembly 2024 Update Part 1 - Episode 169 Branham Research

Category

Transcript

Recommended