Our Stories: An Interview With Erika Mooneyham - Episode 173 Branham Research - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/branham   Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts: https://william-branham.org/podcast   John invites Erica Mingham, a former message believer to share her story of leaving William Branham's "Message" cult of personality. Erica shares her personal journey of being raised in Tennessee, growing up within the message, and eventually questioning and leaving the movement. She discusses the impact of the message on her social life, education, and the difficulties she faced in reconciling the teachings with her personal experiences and observations. John and Erica delve into the issues of indoctrination, social isolation, and the manipulation of beliefs within the message. They also touch upon the roles of women in the movement and the challenges they faced due to the strict and often contradictory teachings.  As the conversation progresses, Erica describes the pivotal moments that led her to question the message, including discrepancies in William Branham's statements and teachings. She recounts the emotional turmoil and the sense of betrayal she felt upon discovering the inconsistencies and falsehoods. John and Erica also discuss the broader implications of leaving a cult-like environment, including the struggle to rebuild one's identity and belief system. They emphasize the importance of critical thinking and the freedom that comes with breaking free from oppressive religious structures. Both share their experiences of finding new paths and the ongoing journey of personal growth and healing.  00:00 Introduction 01:08 Erica's Early Life and Introduction to the Message 02:00 Joining the Message and Initial Beliefs 03:05 Social Challenges Growing Up in the Message 05:30 Differences in Upbringing and Education 09:00 Realizations and Questioning the Message 12:00 The Role of Women and Educational Barriers 15:00 Encounter with Contradictory Teachings 17:30 The Journey of Unlearning and Leaving the Message 20:30 Discovering Historical Inconsistencies 23:00 The Influence of Gnostic Beliefs 26:00 Key Moments Leading to the Decision to Leave 28:00 Emotional Impact and Grieving the Departure 31:00 Understanding the Psychological Manipulation 35:00 Challenges Faced by Message Leaders and Followers 38:00 The Freedom and Challenges of Post-Message Life 42:00 The Importance of Critical Thinking and Authenticity 45:00 Advice for Those Leaving Oppressive Religious Environments ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:00You

00:30Welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research podcast. I'm your host,

00:38John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham historical research at

00:42william-branham.org. And with me, I have my very special guest, Erica Mooningham,

00:47former message believer. Erica, it's good to have you on here and to share your story with the

00:54world about your time in the message and your escape from it. And maybe it'd be good if you

01:00just take a few moments and tell everyone a little bit about yourself. Yeah. Hi, John. Thank you so

01:06much for having me on here. So yeah, I was born and raised in Tennessee. And when I was a kid,

01:15I remember my grandmother always going to church and I started going with her to a church here in

01:23Tennessee. And honestly, because I wasn't exactly being taught at home, the message, I didn't

01:36understand it at first, but then I kept going. And what really started me into it was a cousin of

01:42mine said that I was going to go to hell because I wasn't wearing skirts and had long hair. And I

01:49thought, I don't want to go to hell. Right. So I started to go to church. And then in 2003, I went

01:58to a camp. And that's kind of when things changed. And I thought, okay, yeah, this is where I need to

02:04be. And then I stayed in it until 2019. So what was it like growing up in the message? How did

02:11you feel when you were around other people your age who were both in the message and some people

02:17who were not in the message? What was life like for you? Yes, that's a good question. I remember

02:25being told that it was being preached that we shouldn't have worldly friends. So it was really

02:31difficult at school because I thought I shouldn't have worldly friends because I can be influenced

02:38to go to the world if I did. So it was very I had to find friends that believe the same way or

02:45whatever. And I did have a friend growing up in high school that went to the same church. And I

02:51thought, well, I'll just be her friend at school. And it was a little difficult for me in that sense,

02:57which I think has caused me to be very socially awkward. Now, because I'm just like, I don't know

03:05how to really, I know how to talk to people, but not people that doesn't understand my background.

03:12It's a little difficult. As far as people in the message, where I was going to church,

03:19at first it was fine. And then another church family came from a different location, and they

03:26merged with our church. And it became very cliquish. And it was just really, it was difficult

03:32there too, just because of the cliquishness. You and I share that, believe it or not,

03:37although it probably doesn't seem like it with me doing the podcast, I'm a little bit socially

03:43awkward. I grew up, my family was a bit different. You know, we were called royalty. So the rules

03:50weren't the same for me, as they were other people in the message. But my father was one

03:57who was allegedly healed by William Branham. And his healing story was that he was a,

04:04he had rheumatic fever in high school. And after his alleged healing, he went on to win

04:12the physical fitness award in high school. And so my father was never against going to high

04:17school. But I grew up with many people who were homeschooled. And, you know, because of the harsh

04:25statements against the education system that William Branham made during the battle against

04:32civil rights, the battle for equality, you know, a lot of people mistook that to believe that you

04:39weren't supposed to even have education. So the fact that I went to high school at all is unusual

04:45in some cases. I know people who don't even have a, you know, a GED that were in this message.

04:51So I grew up somewhat socially awkward. The problem for me was, while being told it's okay,

04:59and, you know, obviously going to school, I also was listening to preachers who were saying things

05:04like, separate yourself from the world, and do not be equally yoked with the world. And they

05:11would tie that to people who did not believe the cult rules. And so on one side of my head,

05:17pulling this direction is my family saying it's okay. And then on the other side was all of the,

05:23you know, the cult indoctrination. So it made me somewhat socially awkward as well.

05:29Yeah, I totally understand that. And what you mentioned there about education,

05:37that was the same here, right? Like, women weren't really encouraged to go to college.

05:43So I didn't. And the woman's place was in the home, barefoot and pregnant. I mean,

05:48I'm in the South. So that's just the way it is barefoot and pregnant. And the thing is,

05:54is that if you don't get married at a certain age, and you're not fulfilling

06:01what you're taught that you're as a woman supposed to fulfill. So that's been a struggle

06:05there for me to along with the social awkwardness. Now it's well, I'm having my 30s, my late 30s,

06:13still not married. And I'm okay with it. Now. I'm totally okay. I can live a fulfilled life

06:20without that. But then I felt like something was wrong with me. Because I wasn't married,

06:27I wasn't fulfilling my calling as a woman. Right? I know other women who have, well,

06:33even women in the call when I was in it. I knew women who felt somewhat guilty because they didn't

06:38have somebody. Once they reach, there was a quote, unquote, age of marriage. And it feels

06:44awkward saying that now because that's ridiculous. But we had the age of marriage. And if you didn't

06:51find your companion by then, the women felt disgraced. Because, you know, the way the cult

06:58indoctrination, like you said, barefoot, pregnant chain to the stove. I know, I know women that have

07:05both sides of this, because I went to churches from, from Arizona to South Carolina, everywhere

07:11in between. And some cults had different rules. In some cases, I would go and there would, you

07:18know, women didn't have that constant pressure. And some women even went to get higher education

07:25before they got married, which for me was really unusual, because I actually listened to these

07:30recordings of William Branham. So I know what he said. But there were apparently churches that did

07:36not know the rules that they were supposed to follow. And there were there were women who,

07:43who lived that way. But then there was a lot more, you know, and I look back at many of the

07:47other churches, the majority of the women, their ambition in life, their sole ambition was just

07:53simply to get married and have kids. And now I look back at that, and they robbed so much more

08:01from the people than just money. I look at all of the unbelievable amounts of money that I gave

08:08in those tithe baskets. But more than that, they robbed our lives, and especially for the women.

08:15Yeah, I 100% agree on that. And, you know, I've seen women who are absolutely gorgeous and

08:26very intelligent women who could do so much with their lives, and they're still single,

08:32later 30s, maybe even early 40s. And it breaks my heart because it's this whole,

08:39you can't marry someone who is unequally dope to you. And if they don't believe the message,

08:44then you can't marry them. So that is so sad, because I learned later on, of course,

08:51unequally yoked. It that's not what that means. It's not about that. It's, you know, are you do

08:57believe in Jesus? Do you follow? Are you a Christian? Are you not a Christian?

09:01And I understand the fundamentals of being unequally yoked there, like you don't, you know,

09:07but at the same time, it's just so sad. It did rob a lot from women. And it breaks my heart,

09:16even for myself, like I still get into the headspace sometimes, like, you know, what is

09:22my purpose? Because my whole life, I've been told, that's my purpose, just to be married. And

09:29so now I've got to figure out what is my purpose, right? And, John, I want to share this. I had a

09:35thought not too long ago, that I wonder who I would be today, if I was my authentic self from

09:45birth and never influenced by anyone else's opinions. I'm still learning. What do I like?

09:52What do I not like? It's, it's been a journey for sure.

09:56You know, that's a big problem that many people face, especially the people that I've talked to

10:02in the support groups. The things that most people experience as teenagers,

10:09we did not experience, because we suppressed all critical thought.

10:13And part of development for a teenager is critical thought. You have to process who you are,

10:19why you believe what you do. If your parents are taking you to church,

10:23why are you going to church with them? I mean, those are normal thoughts that children have,

10:28but we weren't allowed to have those thoughts. And so when people escape and they start to

10:34deprogram, they suddenly realize that they're starting a journey that most people have started

10:40at probably age 11 or 12. And it is difficult. I had the same exact conversation, not two days ago,

10:48with another person. I look back at my life and, you know, we're doing well for ourselves, but

10:55I look back at some of the choices I've made and I'm not sure that I would have even made the same

10:59choices. I'm fascinated with psychology. And, you know, we, even though I did get,

11:07I did get higher education, I didn't finish it. I, because, you know, it was, it was discouraged

11:14to even go once I got into college and I got my associate's degree. I never went on to my bachelor's,

11:21but in hindsight, you know, looking through everything that I know now and all of my

11:27interests, I probably would have become a psychologist had I not, had I not been

11:31influenced by this thing. But remember, there were these constant phrases that kept coming out,

11:37psychology is of the devil. It's one thing I remember hearing growing up,

11:42because there were so many accusations against the faith healers that they were

11:47abusing psychology and mental techniques to try to influence the masses. And now that I understand

11:55how that works, they absolutely were doing this. And that fascinates me. The fact that they could

12:00even do it fascinates me. So I, I would not be the person that I am today had I, you know, had I had

12:08my authentic self. But one of the things that I tell people in the support groups is it's not

12:14really that uncommon. There are many people in the world who would have made different decisions

12:20had they not had a certain life experience, you know, good or bad. We, we came from a cult. So

12:27ours was bad. Other people have, you know, even sometimes good life experiences changed the course

12:33of, of their lives. But, you know, in the end, their choices that we made, and I look at where

12:41I am now, I'm not really that unhappy with it. I just, I would have ended up slightly differently.

12:46Yeah, I can definitely relate to you with not being unhappy with my life. I'm very happy where

12:53I am now. And I know that my journey and my path has led me to where I am. It's, it's actually been

13:02a very interesting and beautiful journey. And thinking back, like, I used to be so,

13:13I don't know the word for it. Maybe timid, more timid, very people-pleasing. I was always taught,

13:21like, keep the peace, don't stand up for yourself. Like, it's not, you know, and now, because I've,

13:28this journey, I have learned, like, healthy boundaries. That's not what I was taught. It's,

13:35it's just, I haven't seen healthy boundaries in the message at all. Growing up, I haven't really

13:41seen many boundaries. You know, where, where I went to church, there was a smaller setting than

13:47some, and everyone knew everyone, right? So I love where I am now, because it's huge. And

13:55people don't know your business unless you share that with them. And I was just really, like,

14:02that kind of person who didn't know the healthy boundaries, and now I've learned them. And now I

14:08can stand up for myself. I can still be kind with it, but firm. And boy, it's like where my boundary

14:14line is. So yeah, I totally get that. So describe your church a little bit.

14:20Whenever you were in the cult, and you were going to church, what was it like? Did you,

14:26did you have questions? Did they come whenever, did the questions come while you were in the cult,

14:32or did they come afterwards? Did you believe, I believed it hook, line, and sinker when I was in

14:37the message. And, you know, I really had no question for the first 36 years of my life,

14:4436 and a half. But what was it like for you? What was the church like? What were the people like?

14:50And were you fully indoctrinated, or did you question it?

14:54No, I was fully, fully in, like I said, back in 2003, I went to a camp. And after that,

15:02that's when I gave everything I had to it. No matter what, like I was decided,

15:09I'm going to walk this alone, because I know that this is this is it. So if I never get married,

15:14if I don't have support in walking this way, that's what I'm going to do. And for me,

15:21I was even the secretary of the church. I was the secretary, I was camera, sound, media staff

15:29at the church. And I was full on him. And I actually started, I never had questions. I never,

15:39it never dawned on me that this could be wrong. But I started talking to a guy, and then I

15:47eventually started dating him. And he had already left. And I told him like, I we cannot be together

15:54because we're unequally. And, you know, so he was like, Well, if the message is right, and I'm wrong,

16:04then please show me that it's right. And I was like, Okay, so I started on this journey,

16:10like, I'm going to bring him back in. And on this journey, I realized like, because he actually sat

16:16down. And he put together over 7000 quotes of William Branham saying whether he was a prophet

16:23or not a prophet. And it was the before and after he needed, you know, to make sure that the context

16:29was there. So it's not taken out of context. And he spent months doing this. Because, you know,

16:37we had agreed, we cannot be together unless we're agreeing. And he was like, Well, I don't,

16:42he didn't want me to stay in a cult. So he put this together, I was reading it, I remember

16:49laying on my couch. And I had hit a certain specific thing where I had heard I read where

16:57William Branham said, you know, believe me as your prophet, you believe I'm God's prophet.

17:03And then in a prayer, he says, God as your prophet. The thing is, is about this document,

17:08it was all dated. It was, you know, all in order, dated in order. So it's not like it was

17:14backtracking at all. And then suddenly, I read where he says, I'm, I never said I was a prophet,

17:22the people say that. I thought, I'm 40 something pages in here, like you've said that you're

17:28up the whole time. And I'm like, this isn't lining up. And so instead of calling him,

17:34I called a friend of mine who had already left. And I said, Hey, can you share your story with me?

17:40She said, Have you spoke with your pastor? I thought that was a great answer. And I said,

17:46Well, I've spoke with his wife, and she's telling me there are no answers.

17:51And I thought at that moment, even the pastor's wife is saying there's no answers. I thought,

17:56I can't follow something that I can't explain. I can't, I can't follow something

18:04that I feel like is a lie, because I just caught him in a lie, and it's not lining up.

18:10So then she told me, Erica, it doesn't line up. And that was my final decision.

18:16I remember doing that same exact exercise whenever we were leaving the message and

18:21you line all those quotes up. And, you know, it's more than just him

18:26saying something that's not true. As you line them up, and you're reading them chronologically.

18:32He's saying, I never said this. He's like you said, he's introducing himself as a prophet

18:38and his prayers, etc. But then you get down deeper into it. And you can see that he's even

18:43manipulating people into thinking that he's a prophet. And again, that's why I'm so fascinated

18:49with psychology as you read through this and see what that man was doing to the people's heads.

18:54It's unbelievable. I did a similar exercise on the collections, because he would often say,

19:01never once in my entire life have I ever taken a collection. And then another sermon,

19:06here, give me your money. And there's, there's one audio clip, I've put it out on the website

19:11somewhere, but he and Franklin Hall are together. And Franklin Hall is saying, what are we going to

19:17start with Brother Branham? And he says, money, that's it, money. And they're both laughing at it.

19:22Like, you know, it's, it's a game to them, because they just pass a basket and they get rich.

19:28And it wasn't until I think it was nine. I think it was 2015 or so. I found an article from the

19:37things early, it was late 40s, maybe 46 or 47, where it was describing William Branham's

19:44campaign team, the newspaper reporters had gone to see them, and going exiting the tent where

19:51they were holding the revivals, it took two big sturdy men to carry the boxes of money

19:57from from the tent revival. And I'm scratching my head thinking, well, that's that's before he

20:02ever made the statement, never in my life have I ever taken any money, and they've got boxes of

20:07money. So the whole thing, if you line it up, and take that exercise with almost every single thing

20:14that the man said, and you're going to find him saying polar opposite from one point to the next.

20:21Yeah, absolutely. And not only did his words not line up with his own words, but it doesn't line

20:26up with the Bible. I mean, I remember one day, I ended up moving in with my ex boyfriend. And

20:35I remember he came in one day, and he asked me specifically, Hey, was Enoch and Noah on earth at

20:43the same time? And I was, I don't know even how I knew. And I just go, No, he said, Are you sure?

20:52Because Brandon preached that they were. And we went through like so many different studies

20:59together, learning, unlearning and relearning together. And it's, it's mind blowing at how off

21:09of the Bible that he was. And that's the thing. If, if something's not lining up with the Bible,

21:17I cannot follow it. So right now at the church I'm at now, we're actually going through the

21:22book of Revelation. And it is very interesting, because the way we were taught is so different

21:31than the way it really is. And I love learning what the book of Revelation really says,

21:39just straight from the Bible and not with Brandon's interpretation of it.

21:45Yeah, there's just so much there that, you know, if you read the Bible, and you compare it to his

21:51sermons, it's clear that the man has never, ever read the book for his entire life. He's never read

21:57it. And yet, he even admitted, he said, I don't know the book real well, but I know the author.

22:04But then he proceeds to become a Bible teacher. And he's teaching things that aren't even in it.

22:09And whenever he tries to teach something that he thinks is in it, it's not in it. And I went

22:15through, again, I went through the same exercises studying Revelation and the statement about

22:21Enoch and Noah. That led me down a path that, gosh, I probably spent two or three years on,

22:27because the only place that I could find where you could make that connection was fragments of

22:33the book of Noah. We don't even have the whole book, and it's not even a biblical book. It's,

22:39I think it was included in maybe the Dead Sea Scrolls or something like this. But it was a

22:44Gnostic book, basically. And that led me down the path of Gnosticism, which was fascinating.

22:51I recommend highly that if anybody has left this movement or any of the splinter groups that

22:57developed from it to study Gnosticism, because that's exactly what this movement was based off

23:02of. But I agree. I began studying the Bible. I read it cover to cover and lost count. It was

23:1110 or 15 times. And as I'm reading it and I'm studying the things that he said so that I could

23:18be solid in my decision after leaving, there was just no comparison. The man had never,

23:24ever read the book. I definitely agree with that, John,

23:30especially when you start to realize all of the plagiarisms and all the things that he even says,

23:37like, came straight from God. It's fresh manna. And then you find out later someone's written a

23:43book about it or preached a sermon on it. And it's just so sad. It's sad. And that's why I had

23:54to walk away. And the thing is, is I have family members who are still in it. And I don't know how

24:01to approach that with them because it's just so sad. And it's not, it's not my place to just,

24:09like, start bashing. Of course, I don't, but start bashing the message or anything to anyone.

24:14But I had even brought up the Enoch and Noah thing to a family member. And the said family

24:20member looks at me and goes, well, maybe Brother Branham had a higher revelation. I'm like,

24:26more than the Bible? Higher revelation than the Bible? Like, maybe God told him something that

24:33he didn't put in the Bible. And I'm like, oh, wow. So there's just no talking to them. And it's

24:41sad because my heart goes out. I don't want anyone to be believing a lie. Right. And for anybody who

24:48was never in the message called of William Branham and is unfamiliar with what we're talking about,

24:55Branham's rapture theology, which was one of the most fundamental elements of his entire

25:01religion, was that the rapture that is soon to come in his interpretation of the Bible,

25:10the rapture that is soon to come would be similar to, he called it a type, the type of Enoch and

25:18Noah. And he said that Enoch lived 500 years on earth to live with Noah. And then Enoch was

25:27raptured away and Noah was imperfect. And he typed, he quote unquote typed Noah to the modern

25:36church. So he was essentially saying that Enoch would be raptured away like his cult of personality

25:42while the whole rest of the Christians on earth would have to suffer the tribulation.

25:47And that's his rapture theology in a nutshell. But to believe that rapture theology, you have

25:52to believe that the Bible is incorrect about the number of years that Enoch was on earth.

25:57The Bible says 365 William Branham and the fragments of the book of Noah. I think it's

26:04the fragments of the book of Noah say 500. But so you found this and you're starting to realize

26:11that William Branham's not quite honest or not quite reputable in his Bible teachings.

26:18What was the one thing that you would say that made you suddenly

26:22snap out of it and, and realize that the whole thing was a cult?

26:26Yeah, like I said, whenever I read that quote, that I never said I was a prophet, people say

26:33that I remember laying on my couch and falling, like I had a death in the family. And I grieved

26:41and I grieved and I grieved. But still, there was a little part of me that always questioned,

26:47well, questioned up to a certain point that question. Am I wrong? Am I missing something?

26:55Like, I, this can't be right. So I combed through study after study with my ex boyfriend, and

27:05we wanted to make absolute certain that we were not just missing something. So the biggest thing

27:12for me was that the more that we searched, the more that we found. And that was really

27:21devastating. And it wasn't, it wasn't he said, she said stuff. I remember my ex actually started

27:30me he has started me out on your, your podcast, john, and I had the YouTube ones. And I remember

27:39like, saying, I can't, you know, this is just a man's word. I can't do this. And which is why he

27:44put only one random quotes together. And I think it was really the cigarette pack that got me to

27:53it. Where he talks about how that there was a cigarette pack, the thinking men's culture.

27:59And one place, he says that he picked it up, and he turned it over another plate, you know,

28:05and they got revelation, or like the divine, you know, revelation to preach that from that. And

28:11another place. Oh, no, I didn't pick them up. I'd be destined to do a thing like that. Those things

28:17are nasty. And so I saw, okay, either you have lied about it, or you disobeyed God. If God told

28:27you to pick it up, and you didn't, you disobeyed, or you're lying about the whole entire story.

28:32And I just cannot follow something that is not, I mean, it's, it's a lie. No. And then you talk

28:43to other people, and they all have a different story. If this was true, then why is it that

28:49there's so many people that finally made their final decision on different stories? I can tell

28:56you, I've talked to several people, and I'm like, Oh, I didn't even know that story. And that's what

29:01led you out. Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started, or how the progression

29:07of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign, Charismatic and other fringe

29:13movements into the New Apostolic Reformation? You can learn this and more on William Branham

29:18Historical Research's website, william-branham.org. On the books page of the website, you can find the

29:26compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley, Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon,

29:32and others, with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book. You can also find

29:38resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements. If you

29:44want to contribute to the cause, you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at

29:49the top. And as always, be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that

29:55you're listening to or watching. On behalf of William Branham Historical Research, we want to

30:00thank you for your support. Yeah, and it seems so insignificant. You think about a cigarette pack,

30:05and that being able to help somebody just snap out of it. But I remember that, because that was a,

30:13it's not the thing that made me suddenly decide to leave, but it was a fundamental milestone in

30:18that decision. Because it's not just a cigarette pack that is the issue, and it's not even

30:25whether he disobeyed God that's the issue. He is clearly saying in one instance that either an

30:31angel or God spoke to him and said, pick the thing up. And then another one, he's saying that he's

30:37not. Well, when I carried that research out to its full and complete study that I could do,

30:46I found out that he stole the whole idea from Billy Graham. And it was a Billy Graham sermon,

30:53the thinking man's filter. And then suddenly I'm like, you know, this man was clearly lying.

30:59Not only was he lying, he was trying to steal ideas from other people so that he could lie.

31:05And I began to realize that, you know, there's too many things wrong with this. This is just

31:12one of a hundred things that I'd probably found by this point. But there are too many significant

31:17flaws in the message. And suddenly the thought hit me that I grew up and I didn't catch any of

31:25this, and how did I not catch it? I knew these tapes. I listened to them over and over and over

31:31again. And I look at the ministers. They have one job to do, one single job, and that's to study it

31:39so that they can preach about it. And every sermon, if you go hear a minister that's in the

31:44cult, they're not preaching Bible. They're saying William Branham said this and William Branham said

31:50this other thing and this other thing. So they're actually studying these sermons. They had to have

31:55known every single thing that I found with just, it wasn't long. I want to say it was like two or

32:01three months of searching. Some of these men have done this for 50 years. There is no way that they

32:06did not know that he lied about whether or not he picked up the cigarette pack. And so, you know,

32:13me being in the cult royalty, I'm suddenly faced with this even worse thought. Many men that I knew

32:20and respected, and some of the men were family. There's no way that they didn't know this, and

32:26they're also helping to spread the lie. You know, I know that I spoke to my pastor's wife, and I know

32:36other people who spoke to, well, ex-pastor, and I know other people who also brought up different

32:42things to him. And it's like if you are researching this and you're going back in here and trying to

32:50find answers for people who are coming to you with questions, there's no way that you can't not see it.

32:56And I actually heard one, I heard one minister, not my ex-pastor, but I heard a different one

33:04who literally said on one of his sermons that he studied it, he considered leaving the message,

33:13and then he decided not to. If you get to a point where you see so many issues that you consider it,

33:20I mean, I don't understand how you don't. You don't just leave it. And honestly, in my opinion,

33:26it just boils down to security, money, comfort, and it's like instead of

33:35seeing the truth and helping people to see the truth. What you said, though, about him stealing

33:42that from Billy Brahm, I came across the same thing because whenever I searched it in the table,

33:48the database, that's one of the first things that comes up is where William Brahm's literally

33:54saying, oh, did you hear that sermon from Billy Brahm? And he even tells on himself with that.

34:01And I was just like, oh my goodness. And I've struggled with the same thing. How did I not see

34:06it before? I mean, I was media staff. I was constantly putting in all of the sermon notes.

34:13I was constantly doing something. I was the secretary of the church. How did I not come across

34:19any issues prior to being shown all of these quotes? It's mind-blowing.

34:29It is very mind-blowing. And take it a step further. Think about the people who are working

34:35to help publish this stuff. For years, they have read it. They've indexed it. They have listened

34:42to the recordings over and over as they're making, quote unquote, making the quality better. I

34:48sometimes question that. But they go through this exercise. So they are deep in it in the same way

34:55that I was whenever I just suddenly started studying and realized that this whole thing was

35:00a lie. These people did this. They knew this. And I've heard the argument said by someone who

35:07escaped late in their life that maybe it's because the internet searches and the computer software

35:14searches are available. And they didn't have it back then. So maybe they just didn't notice it.

35:20But I look back at some of the people that I knew who left years ago, years before the internet,

35:27and they had those same indexes. You could easily go pick them up at Voice of God Recordings.

35:32And with the index, you've got topics and you can go search it. One guy, he told me his story

35:38of how he escaped and he didn't have an internet search. He just used the index and he was looking

35:44up everything that Branham said about the cloud, which pretty well everybody knows right now

35:49that that was completely false, that whole story. Well, he found out that it was false and

35:57he did so by looking at the index and he listened to the sermons. And he would just take notes of

36:02what Branham said on each sermon. And then when you line up what he said, time by time,

36:08none of it really matches. It doesn't make sense. And the whole story transitions. And, you know,

36:15years later, now we have the newspaper articles and we can see that he wasn't even in the state.

36:21He was helping a transgender person escape from death row. And the whole thing just,

36:27it's absurd when you think about it. So after you escaped, your life has changed and you're

36:35doing well for yourself. You understand the issues with being in front of people. I have the

36:43same thing. But what would you say is the number one freedom that you have with your new life that

36:49you did not have before? Just looking back, John, I see how much fear I lived in that I don't live

36:58in anymore. And it was all rules. And it was, if you do this, this is going to happen. If you do

37:03that, you're going to go to hell. I don't have that fear anymore. It's such a freedom to know

37:09what the Bible actually says. It's also a freedom to have a relationship. Now, what's interesting,

37:17people ask me now, like if I am a religious person, and I tell them, no, I'm not a religious

37:24person. I don't believe in religion. I believe in a relationship. Because to me, religion hurts

37:30people. And that's what I grew up in, that religion was hurting people. So I believe in a

37:37relationship. I am a Christian. And I, you know, I go to church and I just, we, I go to a church

37:45where we just go straight through the Bible. So we take a book of the Bible and chapter by chapter,

37:51and just find out what it actually says. And it's so freeing to know what the Word of God says.

37:57And now there's things, it took me a long time, took me a very long time to change any outward

38:04appearance, because it was, especially for women, all about outward appearance. So it took me a long

38:10time to get to that point. And once I got to that point, it was like I went so far with it. So,

38:16you know, I did, of course, cut my hair, trim it, I still do. And I, because I wanted to look healthy.

38:23I wanted to look good. And even with wearing pants, it took me a long time after I started

38:29wearing them to get to the point where, in my mind, that wearing dresses is okay. And it's

38:35very feminine, it's very pretty. And it's just because it's a thing for me, a trigger in my mind,

38:42that that's the way it always was. And now I'm at the point where I'm starting to find a balance.

38:48I tell people, it's funny, I tell people jokingly, but now that I look back, it's probably not

38:53jokingly, that at this point, I've probably done everything except get a tattoo. And that's

38:58probably on the list at some point. You know, but it's just, it's so freeing to know that it's not

39:06all about rules. And it's not if you mess up here that God is a God with a big stick ready to smite

39:13you. It's just freeing to know that. I had a person who had left a message and they were

39:18asking me, you know, they left a religion of rules. And it was awkward because as I was working

39:25in support groups, people would contact me privately and ask what the new rules are. So

39:31they were asking me, is it okay to get tattoos? And I'm not, you know, I'm not a minister. I'm

39:36not a pastor. I'm not the person to ask this question. And before I realized that that's how

39:43I had to answer every single question like that, I thought it was a little bit funny that they were

39:49asking me. And I said, well, the body's the temple. You ought to decorate it. And it didn't

39:55go over well, but that's just my nature. I'm, I think, I see the humor in everything, but not a

40:01pastor. I'm not the one to ask that kind of advice. Go get a pastor if you have those kinds of

40:06questions. But it's true. We were raised in a religion of rules, and that religion was very

40:12harmful. And I too have a distaste for the word religion because of it. In fact, and I'll admit

40:21this openly, I have a distaste for using the word Christianity even because in the message cult,

40:29Christianity was used to abuse the people. And whether or not the ministers believed in God,

40:36I actually question whether some of them actually did, especially William Branham. You don't lie

40:42like this and believe God. You just don't do it. So, I have questions whether or not they did.

40:47And whenever somebody comes up to me, in the business world even, I have this happen. People

40:54will come up and they will try to advertise the fact that they're Christian so that I'll

40:59give them a good deal or whatever in business. And that really tells me nothing about the person.

41:04Because of this lack of trust that was developed, I actually have more skepticism when they tell

41:10me this, which that's wrong. That's something that I need to work through. But I get exactly

41:17what you're saying. Whenever men have abused something like this, something that should be

41:23good, then you start to have problems with it. And so, what I go back to is I always go back to

41:31the passage that Jesus said, love God above all else, love your neighbor as yourself.

41:37And whenever I'm trying to rewire my thoughts about religion and Christianity, I go back to

41:43that verse. That's what it's supposed to be. What these men did with it was wrong. That's not what

41:49it should be. They abused it. And what they had was not religion. It was not Christianity.

41:55It was religion. It was not Christianity. It was just a false religion. And I try to rewire that.

42:01But I'll openly admit, I have the same exact struggle. Yeah, I don't see how someone that

42:08came through what we did wouldn't have that struggle. And I've been thinking lately too,

42:16like, what is people going to remember the most? What does people remember the most about us?

42:22It's not going to be like our hair or what we wore. We put so much thought into that,

42:27right? Like, what do we look like, our hair, you know, and things like that. Like, even,

42:33and I told someone the other day, like, even my eye color, whenever I'm no longer here on earth,

42:39like, some people are going to forget that. Even people that I pass on a daily basis,

42:44they're not going to remember anything like that about me. But what they are going to remember is

42:49how I treated them, is how they felt when they left my presence. And I think that's really what

42:55it boils down to is being a good person, a good, decent human being, being honest, and

43:03not pushing an agenda on someone that's your agenda. This is my personal opinion. This is

43:10how I live my life. And it's taken me a long time to get there. It's funny. I'm literally the least,

43:17the most least non, or the least judgmental person ever. And I was told, even by my ex before,

43:25like, I was told that I used to be super judgmental. Well, yeah, because that's how we

43:31were taught to be very judgmental of people and critical. I completely understand the, what you

43:37said earlier about the trust issues where you automatically start like having this thought in

43:44your mind, I don't trust you, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, we've been lied to most or almost all of our

43:52life. And that creates a huge trust issue. I have huge trust issues with that. And then it's sad

44:02because I thought about, I thought about what does the message produce in someone's life? Well,

44:11you know, like I said, with my ex, I was in a relationship with him. He had come out of the

44:17message as well. And the thing is, is that we still have that message mentality. And it was

44:23still there for him too. And there was a lot of like mental, well, some kind of control there,

44:30but there was more of like mental abuse and mental this, you know, like, as far as that goes,

44:35it's more very selfish, very selfish motives. But also, I think that the message produces a lot of

44:45narcissism. And I've seen that with the leaders I've seen it with, and it's more of a mental thing.

44:54Um, and that's damaging, because when you've gone through, especially covert narcissist,

45:02when you've gone through that mental abuse, people can't tell like they could if you were

45:06physically abused. And that's what it was in the message for me. And then I entered into a

45:13relationship that was basically the same thing that I couldn't see because you can't recognize

45:21red flags when they feel at home, right? So there was just a lot of that going on. Um, so my,

45:32my view of religious foundation, everything that I knew, like it just crumbled. And then

45:41not long after that, like my relationship crumbled, and then I had to just start

45:45completely over. And it's been hard. And it's definitely been a journey with that.

45:51It's a whole lot of work. That's for certain. I, you know, for me, it was similar. I can't

45:58really point to one single thing that caused me to, to decide to leave. And in fact, my story,

46:05I've shared a few times, but for me, it was like an almost instant on off, suddenly, I realized

46:11this whole thing is false. And one day I'm reading the Bible, same exact chapter. And the

46:16next day I read that same chapter, and it said two different things. And my, my head just kind

46:21of woke up, but there was a progression of me escaping. And I, I look back now at all of the

46:29things that I considered to be greatly important that caused me to decide to leave. And if I were

46:36to sum them up, really what happened was I came to understand that the cult dehumanized the people

46:43in it. I look at all, and I compare it back to that passage. Jesus said, love your neighbor as

46:49yourself. We didn't do that. You know, we did not love the other Christians in the world. In fact,

46:55you can listen to ministers. They would be happy if every single person who has left a message

47:01were to burn in hell forever. In fact, one, one minister said something very similar to that.

47:06They would be happy. And I can't live like that. I love all people. I don't want to see anybody

47:12suffer. I don't want to see anybody hurt, but we were manipulated to dehumanize people to such an

47:19extent that we wanted them to hurt. We wanted them to suffer. If, if the prophet said one thing,

47:26the quote unquote prophet said one thing and somebody didn't believe it, well, I wanted them

47:31to suffer because they didn't believe it so that they could see that the prophet was true. And

47:36that's, that's ridiculous. That is a dehumanizing religion. It's a false religion. So glad I'm,

47:43I'm so glad you're out. I'm so glad I'm out. If there was one thing that you could go back in

47:48time and tell your former self while you was in it to give yourself some encouragement, what would

47:54that be? John, I would tell my former self that one day it's going to be okay. One day you're

48:00going to be very, very strong. One day you're going to be able to stand up for yourself and

48:07make it in this world without all of these mental abused things going through your mind.

48:16You're going to be free. You're going to be free. And I just, I just, I love that there's a freedom

48:23there. And it's not, like I said, it's not all roles and it's not all of the mental abuse anymore.

48:31Well, that's very good advice. We, as our family left, we tried many different churches. And

48:38for me, I was really, I didn't know what I was searching for, but I came to understand that I

48:44was searching for a place where people weren't dehumanized and where that passage was actually

48:51the premise for the entire church's motivation. Love God above all else, love your neighbor as

48:57yourself. And the church that we, we went to a few of them, the one we're at now,

49:04they have a huge outreach program working with the people who are in need and people who are

49:12not as fortunate as we are. And I can get behind that. Whether you go to church or not, that's

49:17something that people should get behind. And I tell people who are in the support groups who

49:23have left the message, who are struggling with the idea of going back to church because of those

49:28trust issues, the question is often, which one do I go to? What denomination? And I instantly say,

49:34try them all. Go to one, find what you like, take note of it, find what you don't like,

49:40take note of it, and try another one. And in the end, you'll find a good fit for yourself,

49:47who you are and what you believe. And honestly, when you leave a cult,

49:53you go through this progression, what you believe one week may not be the same thing

49:57that you believe the next week. That's really hard, actually,

50:00because everyone has a different journey. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And

50:05I look forward to seeing you more in the support group. I'm watching you

50:11communicate with others, and you're starting to help others in the things that you're saying. So

50:16very glad to have met you, and very glad that you shared your story with us.

50:21If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.

50:24You can find us at william-branham.org. For an overview of the historical research of

50:30William Branham and the healing revivals, read Preacher Behind the White Hoods,

50:34a critical examination of William Branham and his message. Available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.

Our Stories: An Interview With Erika Mooneyham - Episode 173 Branham Research

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