Faith Assembly 2024 Update Part 2 - Episode 175 Branham Research

Name: Faith Assembly 2024 Update Part 2 - Episode 175 Branham Research
Uploaded: 2024-08-21T10:24:48+00:00
Duration: 1 h 2 min 35 s
Channel: William Branham Historical Research

William Branham Historical Research

last month

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John and Chino discuss recent developments concerning the Faith Assembly group, reflecting on how members have distanced themselves from the controversial teachings of Hobart Freeman. They share anecdotes about their encounters with the ministers and the evolving dynamics within the group, emphasizing the importance of owning past mistakes to genuinely progress.

Chino's YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@chinodross

00:00 Introduction
00:32 Podcast Welcome and Introductions
01:06 Reflections on Faith Assembly's Past and Changes
02:38 Update on Meeting with Ministers
05:11 Discussion on Doctrinal Issues and Personal Interactions
08:44 Experiences with the Faith Assembly Community
12:10 Visits to Historical Sites
15:05 Personal Stories and Encounters
18:11 Reflections on Cult Behavior and Relics
21:15 Dan's Story and Building Ownership
24:26 Comparisons with Other Cults and Mindsets
29:11 Analysis of Hobart Freeman's Teachings
33:32 Experiences with Faith Assembly Ministers
40:59 Personal Journey and Theological Growth
50:38 Importance of Theological Debate and Learning
57:01 Reflections on Authoritarianism in Religion
1:00:04 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

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Transcript

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00:00:00You

00:00:30Hello, welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research podcast

00:00:36I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham historical research at

00:00:42William dash Branham org and with me I have my co-host researcher minister and friend Cheno Ross

00:00:49Pastor and the voice of the understanding scripture and truth by Cheno D Ross YouTube channel

00:00:56You know last week we did not get into very much we we tried to get through the

00:01:02update on the Faith Assembly cult and

00:01:05The you know, I I hesitate to use the word cult now because like you said in in our last podcast

00:01:12Things have progressed in a different direction, but there's always that question for me when people don't really own their past

00:01:19I have to question how have they really changed how much have they changed and

00:01:24Based on what you said last time some people had and other people hadn't so I I have to raise the question

00:01:31I'm not going to call it a cult officially, but I do have some questions because you know

00:01:37Even in my life there are you know in marriage?

00:01:41For example when you're in marriage, which is a really good example of being in a religion

00:01:46You have your wife and children and if you make a mistake, the first thing that you should do is tell your wife

00:01:52Hey, I made this mistake and then work through it or if it's for one of your children, you know, I'm sorry

00:01:59I I got a little bit of upset whenever I shouldn't have or whatever it is

00:02:03not

00:02:04You know in this case several people died

00:02:07This is so much worse than something that happened in a family

00:02:10but in a family you own up to it and you progress in a good way you change and you learn from your mistake and

00:02:17I often tell people who are in the support group. It's not your past that really matters

00:02:22I don't care what you've done. It's really where you're headed, you know, or you're gonna repeat those same mistakes

00:02:27So I have a question when somebody doesn't own up to it

00:02:30But I'll set off that off to the side because I want to hear the rest of the update as well

00:02:36Yes. Yes. Well, let me help clear up some of that. I the ministers I met with I

00:02:42Definitely believe from everything they said and I have no reason to question them really

00:02:47I think they're good brothers in the Lord that they have a distance themselves from

00:02:53The past teachings of Hobart Freeman the ones they feel are erroneous and have owned up to them

00:02:59I mentioned a couple of other ministers a couple by name and I'm sure there are others that I didn't mention by name

00:03:05that have

00:03:07you know not been able to deal with the things in the closet in the past, but

00:03:12You know when I when I got to this meeting which was back in the middle of July July the 17th

00:03:21It began a little tense

00:03:23they knew who I was as I said in our last interview previously John just from I

00:03:29Had been the the pesky one on the outside who had had you know dare

00:03:35Challenge some of their beliefs and it's just it's you and I continue to talk about this same thing

00:03:41but

00:03:42If you're not allowed to challenge

00:03:45Beliefs if you as a public speaker can't handle that it's too hot for you in the kitchen. You need to find another job

00:03:53Because those of us who are speakers, I mean, I'm a professional speaker

00:03:57that's what I've done for a living and

00:03:59That means you're gonna you're gonna put your foot in your mouth and you're gonna cross your wires more than one time in your life

00:04:06And you just got to be able

00:04:08To handle that and that's why I didn't go back and scrub all of my past history just to be about impossible to do

00:04:15But you know, we've just got to be able to

00:04:19Whenever I would have said something in the past they would say oh, he's heretical. Oh, he's leaving the faith

00:04:25You know, but whether I'm here or not if I pass off the scene

00:04:29The issues don't pass off the scene all the problems stay there whether I'm there or not whether I'm pointing them out or not

00:04:37So I would say the meeting began a little tense because somehow we got

00:04:43Diverted on to because I mentioned that I thought dr. Freeman's view on the Godhead or the Trinity his definition

00:04:51The way he states it is definitely less than orthodox. I'm not accusing him of heresy

00:04:56I do believe I know that he believed in a father son and Holy Spirit as being

00:05:04Co-equal as far as deity is concerned, but his definition just showed me he'd been influenced by William Branham

00:05:11So in any event, we got off on a little rough note and then one of the brothers who was wonderful and gracious

00:05:18Stood up across the conference table leaned over and shook my hand and wanted to you know, wanted to reboot

00:05:24You know, let's reboot and when I got home

00:05:27You know, here's a text that I got from this brother. He said thanks so much for coming to visit us

00:05:32It was great to meet you and share together

00:05:35Please do forgive me for being rude to you early in our conversation. I'm sorry for that

00:05:42Wow, hey, man, wow, you know, I'm impressed because the ministers down there in the past

00:05:48They wouldn't come close to something like that and I don't even know that he was rude

00:05:53it's just you know when you're gonna debate and discuss and dialogue about

00:05:59theological issues, we're all pretty passionate about what we believe and

00:06:04even without

00:06:06Raising your voice or cursing at anybody and none of that happened for sure in the meeting

00:06:11You know, we all might get a little fired up. So I'm okay with that as long as everybody else is okay with that

00:06:17I'm okay with that

00:06:19That's a good sign, you know

00:06:22One of the proofs that really are the telltale sign like you said with what happened when Freeman was alive

00:06:29Whenever you leave if they begin character assassination

00:06:33That's usually a sign that they still have the cultish mindset and they wanted to it's a thought stopping technique

00:06:40If they can assassinate your character, then any questions that you've raised will be completely discredited by the people who are in it

00:06:48And I'll never forget when I first started doing this I'm one of these unusual people that see the good in everyone and

00:06:55I engaged everyone equally, you know, and I still wish I could do that

00:07:00It hurts me that I can't

00:07:01but if it was a cult minister who is engaging me or if it was just a regular person who

00:07:07Had been manipulated by the cult. I treated everybody the same because you know, we're all humans. We all make mistakes

00:07:14But I would find that they would be toying with me to trying to find

00:07:18something that they could assassinate my character with and then they would use it so now my guard has to go up and I hate

00:07:24That because it's not my nature

00:07:26And it went so far for me and not to distract from the story

00:07:31This is short, but I had this one cult minister who he didn't call me

00:07:36But his secretary called me I'd never met her or even heard of her and I got this phone call. Are you John Collins?

00:07:43I said, yeah, and she said are you the grandson of Willard Collins pastor the Bradham Tabernacle? I said, yeah, and she said, okay

00:07:49Thank you, and she started to hang up and I was like, wait, wait, who are you? Why did you call?

00:07:53Oh, I was just checking. Thank you and try to hang up again

00:07:57Well, this went on until I finally got out of her who she was and she was this minister's

00:08:02Secretary. Well, he I I'm just curious

00:08:05I watched some of the sermons upcoming and he had this whole

00:08:10Series of discussion in one of his sermons where he said I tried to reason with that John Collins and he's just so far gone

00:08:17The devil I can't remember how he put it but alluded that the devil had got me. Well, the man never even spoke to me

00:08:24and then years later, he left the message so it got even funnier and

00:08:29there like I said, there are people who own up to their mistakes and there are people who are not and

00:08:34I'll just leave it at that but it sounds like things went in the right direction for you

00:08:38So I'm hoping that things will progress in a good way. I

00:08:43Hope so to John the men were very cordial. They um, they put me up in a super nice

00:08:49Hilton motel they

00:08:51Covered which I did not ask for I even declined and they said no you are our guest

00:08:57So it's at our expense and that's non-negotiable. So I thought that's wonderful. That's hospitable. They were generous they

00:09:05Had a lunch catered in for us during our meeting it was a four-hour meeting by the way

00:09:11So, I mean we covered a lot of bases touched on a lot of things

00:09:14one of the ministers had some printed out material that I think he wanted to

00:09:21I'm not for sure because he they were going to hand it to me and then he said no

00:09:25I'm not gonna give this to you. He took it back

00:09:26I think it was points of disagreement or points of challenge or something

00:09:30But I think by the time we got to the end I saw

00:09:35Relaxation on the faces. I hope I'm interpreting that right?

00:09:37I guess time will tell but you know, I didn't I do not want to be

00:09:44Mean-spirited against anyone. I don't want to be critical of anyone for the sake of being critical. It's just unfortunately

00:09:52sometimes things have to be said

00:09:55Because of because of what's been said in the past and because of the damage that is called so

00:10:01Yeah, I took the opportunity

00:10:05And going up there John and your friends may or your followers your viewers may find something because people pictures

00:10:12But I just visited, you know

00:10:14It's like a blast from the past whenever I was taking my my trip up to Northern

00:10:19Indiana and then the wow of the now when I'm looking at like the old building and I mean

00:10:26I just took my time. I made a lot of stops on the way up there. So

00:10:31I've got a few of these

00:10:33photographs to show to you and

00:10:36First of all, I'll do some of dr. Freeman's house. I know you had put up some pictures from inside

00:10:44Hobart's house one of our earlier

00:10:46Interviews when we my wife and I were down there visiting June and had taken a bunch of pictures

00:10:53but this first picture is a

00:10:57Visit from back in the 1980s and

00:11:02Then you'll see in this next picture. It's the exact same view but taken last week

00:11:08and

00:11:09So you can see not much has changed

00:11:11And one of the people that I had a couple of great conversations with that

00:11:16Everyone who follows Faith Assembly will know is Jerry Irvin

00:11:20Jerry Irvin and you're not going to remember maybe John all of these names

00:11:24But Jerry Irvin was the psalm leader forever there whenever they left Hobart's house in clay pool before

00:11:32They landed at the glory barn the place in between was Jerry Irvin streetcar garage

00:11:39So he goes way back to the very beginning and so all the bushes and shrubbery that you see planted in

00:11:46Hobart's front and backyard

00:11:48Jerry is the one who went over there and helped stick all those in the ground for Hobart way back in the early to mid

00:11:561970s, so it was good to talk to Jerry and catch up and get some updates from him

00:12:04So this next picture is the front walkway just leading up to the door

00:12:10So if you're going to visit Hobart in June at any time you're walking down these cobblestone

00:12:15Steps and you're headed to the front door

00:12:17And then these next couple of shots just show

00:12:20The beautiful shoelace that his house was on

00:12:24That northern, Indiana area is just loaded with these wonderful lakes

00:12:30And it's a small lake shoelace was a small lake

00:12:33Hobart had his house over on I think one corner of the lake so you can see a view from his backyard out across

00:12:41The lake and then from across the lake looking back to his house

00:12:46when I got over on

00:12:48Backwater Road

00:12:50It was difficult to even find

00:12:53Where the glory barn used to be?

00:12:56So you'll see a picture of a cornfield

00:13:00And everything is gone

00:13:02Everything is gone. It's just it's kind of sad. You know, I first visited that place in

00:13:081976 48 years ago

00:13:11And you know who would have thought half a century later here. We are talking about it's all full of corn and

00:13:17The actual building is gone. The chimney is gone. The trailer is gone. The cabin is gone

00:13:24Paint flats upper room bookstore is gone

00:13:27Everything is gone

00:13:29And when I left there, I went over to what they call the new building in

00:13:35Wilmot

00:13:37so I have a picture of the front of the building back in the 80s and

00:13:42Then we've got this exact same view

00:13:46two weeks ago and

00:13:47Then again back in the 80s. You can see a couple of pictures inside the main

00:13:54auditorium we're talking about a

00:13:5730,000 square foot building

00:14:00This was a huge building

00:14:03but this is a

00:14:04during a worship service and then after a teaching service and

00:14:10Then our next picture that I'm showing you here is the main auditorium as it looks today

00:14:19So I had the

00:14:22Wonderful privilege of meeting Dan

00:14:25Who owns the building and I just Dan is wonderful Dan

00:14:30Actually Dan's let me get this, right?

00:14:34his

00:14:36Son had just married Jerry Urban the song leaders granddaughter

00:14:42So he had just seen Jerry at like a little wedding get-together a little wedding

00:14:48Social just a few weeks prior to me being down there now, I did not know Dan from any other context

00:14:54I just went by the new building and he's turned it into everything pontoon, you know

00:14:59It's a it's a boat place there because there's pontoon boats everywhere up there

00:15:04So all of the things accessories the cloth

00:15:07Seats the vinyl seats all the kind of stuff you'd need for a pontoon boat. That's what they do there

00:15:14So when he found out who I was and I said I'm working on in a series of podcasts and he said what's it about

00:15:21And I said, well, it's about the people that used to be in this building. He said, oh

00:15:26I got a lot of stories. I know a lot of stuff

00:15:29I could tell you all kinds of things and and and he did and I said now look Dan if any of this is

00:15:38Confidential you need to let me know

00:15:40If not, I might have a big mouth and I might I might share some of this and he said, you know

00:15:48He said I don't care. I mean, here's what Dan said. He said I'm an old man

00:15:52He said I've actually got cancer. I don't have much longer to live

00:15:55So he said what do I care about what people think about me and I said, you know

00:16:00That's a great way to go through life

00:16:01Whether you got cancer or not

00:16:03We all need to go through life with and you and I've said this John all people could say about me is either something bad

00:16:10That's not true

00:16:12So what it's not true or something. That's bad. It is true. Oh, well, it's true. You know, I can't deny it

00:16:18What can I do with it? You know, so I don't know why people get all uptight and

00:16:23nervous

00:16:25Over their reputation live the best life you can live and you're not going to do it perfectly and you're gonna offend people and say things

00:16:31you shouldn't say and hurt people's feelings and

00:16:34You know, it is what it is you apologize and you've got some bad marks on your report card and in some people's mind

00:16:41Those bad marks never go away

00:16:44I'm sorry that nothing I can do about the past. You know, it's just it is what it is. Yeah, that's one advantage

00:16:51I have over you my friend because the cold has assassinated my my character not just one cold

00:16:57I mean we're talking many at this point

00:16:59I I don't think you can break me down any further and once you're broken down to that level

00:17:03You can only look up so, you know, I have that advantage, but I'm curious

00:17:10So you mentioned where the glory barn was in the open field?

00:17:14In the Branham cult, these are called hallowed spots or you know

00:17:18There's all kinds of weird cult language that they use for it

00:17:21And I know people who make money off of giving tours to this place

00:17:27With the Branham it's even more interesting because they'll take you out in the middle of nowhere in Kentucky to show you where

00:17:33The alleged cabins location is which we've debunked the whole story that whole Branham's whole life story is fictional

00:17:45Yeah, and I've got you know, most of my family grew up around there so I have I have more knowledge than a lot of

00:17:50people but

00:17:51When William Branham first invented that story he said and now there's a whole neighborhood over where the cabin used to be

00:17:58So they're taking them to an open field where there is no neighborhood so even the locations wrong

00:18:03How is it with the Freeman cult? Do they give tours to this place or do you know?

00:18:08No, they don't as far as I know

00:18:10But here's but I but this leads me into some story that Dan told me as far as the glory barn goes

00:18:17Remember they left there in the spring of 78. There's just not a whole lot of people even left

00:18:23Whoever attended the glory barn and if they did John some of them were children and if you know

00:18:30These roads that run at right angles there in northern, Indiana and noble and Kosciuszko County

00:18:36It's just barren look farmland and it's it's there are no

00:18:41Roadmarks there. There's just no way to find things. It would be very difficult. They have to know it's on Backwater Road

00:18:48They have to know around how far off of whatever that was highway 5 or whatever it was to even find it

00:18:56But on the new building

00:18:58There are a lot more people because they stayed in the new building long after Hobart died in

00:19:041984 so Dan

00:19:07Who owns the building told me interesting stories one of which was this and I'll just throw it out there and let everybody make their

00:19:15own interpretation from it, but Dan said

00:19:18When he was in negotiations with Don Nye's

00:19:22family

00:19:24that was part of the Nye farm and he wanted to buy the building and he bought the building and

00:19:318.3 acres at the building, you know, he wanted that land around the building

00:19:39To backtrack for a minute or to fill in the details he bought that he said in

00:19:442006 paid a hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars

00:19:48for the building which was kind of run down by that time and

00:19:538.2 or 8.3 acres there. He was in negotiations. He had offered him a hundred thousand

00:20:00They turned him down

00:20:01He brought it up to 125

00:20:04They said okay

00:20:06We'll do that. They gave him a key

00:20:09He was going to go and make his last visit inside the building just to look at everything before they signed the papers

00:20:17He said Cheno I

00:20:19Unlocked that building and I walked in there and I got into the auditorium

00:20:23And he said I am NOT a religious man. I'm not a church man

00:20:28I'm not even a spiritual man and

00:20:31he said I got into the middle of that auditorium and a coal street ran up my spine and

00:20:38He said I turned around and ran out of there and I went and got my son my adult son up in Syracuse and brought him

00:20:45Back and we went in there together and I said, well did it happen again? And he said no

00:20:51That was one and only and I said Dan

00:20:54From my conversation with you and talking with you that I don't even you don't even come across to me as a superstitious man

00:21:02And he said I'm not superstitious about anything and he said but that was a weird feeling

00:21:07What that was I have no idea but to get to answering your question

00:21:13He said, you know for several months after he had bought and taken possession of the building

00:21:20He said I'd show up in the morning

00:21:22Get ready to unlock the door doors already unlocked. I'd go in there

00:21:27He said right there, you know, we hadn't done all of our remodeling, you know

00:21:32They've added walls and turned everything upside down and around in there right in the middle of the auditorium

00:21:38There was this young man just sitting there in a chair

00:21:42staring up where the pulpit and

00:21:44podium used to be I

00:21:46said

00:21:47dude

00:21:49What are you doing in my building? Who are you and

00:21:53He said oh, he said this is God's house

00:21:56He said this is God's house. And he said I just I just want to be here and feel it again

00:22:01He said that happened multiple times until I finally Dan said had to take the key away from him and say, you know

00:22:08This is private property. You can't come back here anymore. That's just one story

00:22:13I don't and they're sure John there are a lot more that probably followed the same line that you asked me about earlier

00:22:20It's crazy

00:22:21it gets to the point where it's almost like relics these people see the the building as a relic and it's a hallowed place because

00:22:28I had a friend of mine called me. I should pull it out. I'd have to go get it but

00:22:34They they sold this card I call it the cardboard box of idolatry

00:22:38They had all of these not real relics

00:22:41but actually duplications of the relics and they had things like a

00:22:44Bullet that had was the same caliber that had been fired out of William Branham's gun. I mean it was that level of weird

00:22:52and one of the things that they had in there was this pyramid rock which the you know

00:22:57The Branham ism was deeply into this pyramid ology stuff

00:23:01Well the back story to that is

00:23:04Branham's house was getting decrepit and people were starting to fall through the floors

00:23:09The men scooped up the rotten floor and they started making some of these relics with it. So you're worshiping rotten

00:23:16rotten wood

00:23:18But it's just the similarities are you know, I guess it's in every cult

00:23:22So I can't say that it's direct Branham ism, but it's just so odd to see that people

00:23:27Behave the same from one group to the next you know what I mean?

00:23:31Nobody nobody's as bad as the Catholics, you know, if they could find a chipped tooth of st. Peter's, you know

00:23:38You can make a billion bucks off of that and I've shown you before John

00:23:42I have my part of the chimney of the glory barn here. Oh, you're worshiping relics

00:23:48Let me tell you where this has been used for 25 years until I finally thought you know

00:23:54I'm just gonna take that home. This is the doorstop for the back door in my cabinet shop

00:23:59So that's why all the blue paint is rubbed off of it because it's just been a doorstop

00:24:04But you know, I thought it's pretty cool. I haven't worshipped it yet

00:24:09I don't have any plans on it, but it's made a great doorstop. It's a heavy piece of concrete

00:24:14I've often thought about taking some of the books and whenever I work on my car in the garage

00:24:18I can use the paper to clean my hands. That's about what I think of those relics

00:24:23Yeah

00:24:25Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism?

00:24:31transition through the latter reign

00:24:34Charismatic and other fringe movements into the new apostolic Reformation

00:24:38You can learn this and more on William Branham historical researches website

00:24:43William dash Branham org on the books page of the website

00:24:47You can find the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley Stephen Montgomery

00:24:53John MacKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book

00:24:59You can also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to those movements

00:25:06If you want to contribute to the cause you can support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top

00:25:12And as always be sure to LIKE and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching

00:25:19On behalf of William Branham historical research. We want to thank you for your support

00:25:24Well, let's get to the actual meeting then. I went there to interview them. That was the stated goal

00:25:32and when I got there, I

00:25:36Guess probably the reason that things started off a little rough

00:25:41Was because they were upset about a statement I had made on

00:25:47One of the podcast it might have been upset about a lot of statements, but I only heard about one

00:25:52But the one I heard about I'm gonna say eight to ten to twelve times

00:25:56They were upset about the statement and it got so

00:26:01Ridiculous that by the end because we'd go an hour into the meeting

00:26:05Yeah

00:26:06But we want to talk about and they've mentioned this statement again and it got so funny that by the end

00:26:10One of them said well, this is the last time it's the last time

00:26:14I'm gonna mention this statement and then as soon as he finished one of the others said

00:26:19Well, I want to talk about and the first one said we just said that's the last time and I said I guess you meant

00:26:25That's the next to last time

00:26:27That's how many times they brought it up and the statement that I made was this I said

00:26:33That the ministers under Hobart Freeman back in the day couldn't find their way out of a wet theological back

00:26:41and

00:26:43You know, I did not mean to hurt anyone's feelings

00:26:46I did not mean to offend anyone

00:26:48but I'm sure the ministers will attest to the fact that that was a bothersome statement so bothersome that

00:26:55they just brought it up an

00:26:58Unbelievable number of times even though we would get away from it and have good friendly discussion about other things

00:27:04But they wanted to come back to that but back in those days John there was

00:27:10There was a big group of ministers and they were all you know for the most part, you know

00:27:1590% of them were all young ministers under dr. Freeman

00:27:20I'm gonna read a little section from June's newsletter dated December of

00:27:261976

00:27:27When she said we just added parking space at the church for about a hundred and fifty more cars

00:27:32And we may be purchasing a mobile home to attach to it for more nursery space. This is when they're still at the glory wine

00:27:41However, all of this is just temporary until the Lord shows us what to do

00:27:45We do not want to run ahead of the Lord and as yet have not found another building with ample space on

00:27:51Sunday morning people arrive as early as 4 30 a.m. To get a front-row seat

00:27:57In fact, if they aren't in line by 7 30, they may not get a seat at all and the meeting doesn't start until 10

00:28:06The message coming forth in this hour is indeed precious and well worth standing in line for

00:28:13And you know all of this language, it's it's sweet and I guess there's some innocence in it

00:28:18but it's also draws you in to the fact that boy, we're the end time group and and

00:28:24You don't want to miss us and it's worth every dime you have to make sure that you're here

00:28:31Here's the point. I wanted to get to or the part many of the men are already in ministry

00:28:37the last count was

00:28:4037 separate weekly meetings in all the surrounding states

00:28:44Besides a special meeting for the ministers travel all over the United States

00:28:49We are constantly receiving letters from people who are hungering for God's Word. They are saying send us a teacher

00:28:57We know we are in a real time of preparation, but know that eventually

00:29:02Most of these will be going forth by the Holy Spirit to establish true New Testament churches in

00:29:10all parts of the world

00:29:13And I just have

00:29:16so

00:29:17so many observations about

00:29:20That statement that I'm just don't know that the ministers at Faith Assembly were aware of

00:29:26one of the things Hobart taught

00:29:29strongly and he got it from his predecessors as you are well aware, he was a big believer in

00:29:37Ephesians 4 11 the five-fold ministry

00:29:41the five-fold ministry God has

00:29:44Set these in the church. He's given gifts and they're Apostles prophets evangelists pastors and teachers

00:29:51and as I watched Faith Assembly kind of grow and develop

00:29:58The only thing I ever saw

00:30:01Were teachers. I didn't see any

00:30:04Apostles, I didn't see any prophets. I

00:30:07Didn't see any evangelists, although the George Rieser family down in Central America

00:30:12They were a cool family that I actually supported financially in the 70s when I was a teenager. They were down in

00:30:18Belize which is British Honduras

00:30:21there were no pastors except Hobart and

00:30:26Speaking of Hobart being the pastor Hobart talked all the time John that I spend 14 to 16 hours a day in my study

00:30:33studying praying preparing

00:30:36That's a common statement on his tape 14 to 16 hours a day

00:30:40that does not sound like a pastor to me a

00:30:43Pastor has to be available to his people a pastor has to do more. I'm glad that you're studying. Thank God for that because

00:30:51Pastors don't study enough, but you know, but don't go overboard

00:30:56You know, we've got to have a well-balanced ministry

00:30:59So when Jim says that we've got all of these ministers going out and we are you know

00:31:06We know this is temporary until the Lord leads them

00:31:08Well, when was that ever gonna be it was not gonna happen as long as Hobart was alive

00:31:13Those ministers if they will be honest, they'll know

00:31:17They had to be back at Faith Assembly to hear dr. Freeman teach. They weren't just allowed now

00:31:22They had said to him the Lord has called me to leave here and go

00:31:26You know and establish a church somewhere and I think a couple of people did that I'm sure dr

00:31:33Freeman would have probably been okay with that

00:31:36But if all 37 or they ended up with more like 40 if all 40 of them had said, you know

00:31:42We're gonna go establish a church. I don't think that's right

00:31:45I don't think Hobart would have wanted I would have allowed that

00:31:49They just kept growing and growing and getting bigger and bigger and what is also

00:31:54Interesting John that I think that probably none of these people are aware of is that at Hobart's own

00:32:02Lips for a church to get big is to be wrong is to go in the wrong direction

00:32:09So this is on tape the need for empowering

00:32:15Which was part of the book of Acts. It might have been the very first tape in the series on Acts done in

00:32:201974

00:32:2242 minute

00:32:2327 second timestamp. Here's what Hobart said in

00:32:27fact

00:32:28It's better not to get too big. It really is. It's better to have two bodies

00:32:35Than one five times this size in one place

00:32:40The size of that church when he said this was 250 people

00:32:44Five times that size would be twelve hundred and fifty people

00:32:49they ended up with

00:32:512,200 people and

00:32:53according to what Hobart said

00:32:55It's better to have two bodies than one five times this size in one place

00:33:00That isn't the same thing as saying remain small. I

00:33:04Said divide and conquer that is divide and spread. I

00:33:10Find that to be very interesting that early in Hobart's life

00:33:12He knew that you can't you can't continue just to grow in one place

00:33:17But as he began to feel like he was the only one

00:33:20Well, how how would you ever allow people to go off and be pastored by somebody else because they don't have the full-time message

00:33:27You're the only one who has that message

00:33:30So my statement that the minister Dunder Hobart couldn't fight their way out of a wet bag

00:33:36Theologically, you know, it's it's um

00:33:39It's based on the fact that I had I had heard I

00:33:44Had heard myself the messages at least from the team what I call the tier one ministers

00:33:51Bruce Kinsey and Steve Hill and

00:33:55Jeff Barnett the big ministers with big followings with a lot of people in their meetings

00:34:01I had heard their messages and you know

00:34:04I welcome anybody today to go back and listen to their messages from the late

00:34:091970s and early 1980s and if you think they're biblically and theologically sound, you know, that's your opinion

00:34:16I don't I think they were writing somebody else's coattails. Well, I know they were I'm a hundred percent certain

00:34:24They were writing somebody else's coattails. They believe what they were taught. They read the books. They were told to read

00:34:31They follow the interpretation that dr. Freeman provided for them. And if you ever came up with something

00:34:38Different and were to challenge him that would be a a rare thing

00:34:43He was the one who was in control. He was the one who had all the power and

00:34:51You know, I'm sorry, but we know that power corrupts and we know that absolute power corrupts

00:34:57Absolutely, and if you don't have some kind of system of checks and balances around

00:35:02You don't have you didn't have you don't have to call it a board of deacons or a board of elders

00:35:07But my goodness, you know the churches in the New Testament definitely had a plurality of leadership

00:35:13You might could find an exception where a church had six people in it because it was newly

00:35:19Arisen somewhere in the Mediterranean world, you know, I don't know

00:35:22We don't have those facts and statistics could you have a lone minister for sure?

00:35:27But I mean, let's don't look for the exception. Let's talk about what is normally going to be the case

00:35:31You're gonna have 30 40 50 100 200 300 people

00:35:36And so, you know, you're gonna need some other ministers

00:35:39So the ministers that I heard the ministers that traveled near me

00:35:42That I was actually able to meet that came to my study in my church and and talk with me

00:35:50They wanted to cast the spirit of Jezebel out of me

00:35:52They were all into spirits

00:35:54Everything has a spirit and everything has a name and we think you have a Jezebel spirit

00:35:58We think you have a critical spirit. You have an intellectual spirit. You have it. You're too logical

00:36:03you have a too logical spirit and

00:36:05You have a disruptive spirit and you have you have a spirit you want to cause problems all the time, you know

00:36:13But if I go away the problems are still there, right?

00:36:17Absolutely, you know, it goes back to it. We I talked last time about the the cult

00:36:25Disorder that that exists, but it's actually deeper than that. I've come to the conclusion

00:36:31You know when I first began this I too

00:36:34focused heavily on the theology and

00:36:37I saw it as a big, you know is this big

00:36:41structure that was built on sinking sand and the problem is that

00:36:45The men who try to uphold that a lot of times it's very hard for them to see below the surface

00:36:52Because in these cults, there's a false foundation

00:36:54With another false foundation built on top of that and yet another and another and another and then on the top

00:37:00They put this cheap vinyl down which may have some sound theology because you know, you're not gonna

00:37:07Worship something that's completely false, but it's got this hint of something

00:37:11That's really deadly underneath and nobody's really looking under the covers of this thing to see what's under there

00:37:17And the interesting part is every single thing

00:37:21Right down to the letter that you mentioned in this entire last segment where you were talking comes from Branham ism

00:37:27But I'll read you a quote. This is this is almost it may be the very month. It's either that or right before

00:37:34That Jim Jones of the Jonestown Massacre was introduced to become a leader in William Branham's cult

00:37:41William Branham says you see what formality does these big churches?

00:37:46Carnal-minded

00:37:47Quoting the scripture. Did you know that Satan quotes the scripture?

00:37:51He held a debate with Jesus and what he's saying there if you go down to its essence

00:37:56you're gonna have people who have critical thinking against our cult theology and

00:38:00They're of the devil because the devil can mimic this. That's exactly what they're saying

00:38:05And I I almost interrupted you with laughter when you mentioned the fivefold ministry. Good Lord, man

00:38:12They they teach this to the letter in the Branham cults, but if anybody were to claim profit they're immediately

00:38:19chastised and those who do claim profit usually go on to start their own cult and

00:38:24It isn't except for I think there's certain parts of Africa where some of the men do claim to be an apostle

00:38:31but

00:38:33I'm gonna use this word and it's politically not politically correct

00:38:37Quoting

00:38:38The people in the states who are in the cult they call those people did not jobs

00:38:43Because they've gone off into an apostleship. Well, there's just they're just following the same teaching man

00:38:48It's the fivefold ministry and not a single pastor does the duties as a pastor would in a normal church

00:38:56That is not called what they do is they hire a minion

00:38:59They hire this guy that has a title of assistant pastor

00:39:03And he's the one that they send out to do all the dirty work and dirty work meaning you have to go pray for the

00:39:08Sick and do your pastorly duties

00:39:10Usually the pastor is he's the king of his church castle and every single thing that you describe man

00:39:17It is Branham ism 101

00:39:20And I learned this every time you and I talk I keep saying I only know the Freeman background

00:39:26And I know a little bit of the Braddock sin that you do

00:39:29That was one of the things back in the day that I was somewhat critical of that I just don't understand this

00:39:37Fivefold ministry teaching but you have a one full ministry teaching you just have you're a teacher and you have all teachers and you won't allow

00:39:44anyone to be a prophet and

00:39:47Like you said, I think if you thought they were well, they're definitely a heretic and maybe they were I don't know

00:39:53But I'm just saying, you know, if at least let the men go out and become a pastor

00:39:59And not have to report back to faith assembly every time half is up behind the podium

00:40:05You know, I'm so thankful that I didn't go through faith assembly, even though let me just be clear again in my

00:40:11Late teens and early 20s. I believe everything Hobart said I didn't believe it because Hobart said it

00:40:18But I believed that everything he said he had scriptural backing for it

00:40:23You know, I didn't I was I following a man? Of course not. I wasn't following a man

00:40:28Nobody ever follows a man. I believe that everything he said he had because he'd quote a verse and I just wasn't smart enough

00:40:37Yet to figure out the time when he was quoting a verse and it was valid and when he was quoting a verse and it

00:40:43wasn't about

00:40:44Everybody in the videos everybody in the videos watching you trying not to laugh because I'm sitting here busting out

00:40:49I my mind went a completely different direction when you called him half. I'll just leave it at that

00:40:55We'll walk away from it. But oh my gosh

00:40:58Yeah to clear the air

00:41:00His full name is Hobart Edward Freeman

00:41:05Okay, so to clear the air he is truly half Hobart Edward Freeman. I don't want anybody to go down the wrong path

00:41:11This is this is the right path, but no in my early 20s. I believe everything. Dr

00:41:18Freeman said and I'm grateful for many things I learned from Hobart

00:41:22It's

00:41:23Unfortunate that things turned out the way that he did I've often thought about his death and you know

00:41:29Hobart was really ill John at the end of his life. I'm sure he was in a lot of pain and

00:41:37You know when he died he was no longer in that pain

00:41:41He got to be in the presence of his Lord and I'm I'm so thankful for that

00:41:46I'm thankful that he did not have to go through that

00:41:50The sicknesses and the illnesses that he was experiencing at the time and I can guarantee you whenever he got into heaven

00:41:56He immediately saw the foolishness of all of this

00:42:00Stupidity trying to tell people what kind of shoes to wear and what kind of pants and what kind of purses?

00:42:05He saw through all that immediately, but also his death was able to

00:42:11Free a lot of other people up as well

00:42:14Who were going to go on like myself and many other people to live another 40 or 50 or 60 years and

00:42:22be free from you know, the legalisms and and the bondages that he taught but

00:42:29you know, I

00:42:31obviously did not mean and do not mean to this day to offend anyone or to make light of anyone else's theological knowledge or

00:42:39education and

00:42:40I'm don't know it all by any means and I'm all I've you know back in the day whenever I would try to engage these

00:42:48people

00:42:49You know

00:42:49I was a pastor of my own church and it's a little bit of a lonely place and I understand what that's like and what?

00:42:56I was always hungry for were peers. I was I was really

00:43:01Hungry for peers. It's one of the reason I ended up going on to seminary

00:43:05Because you know if you're a pastor of your own church, you're kind of like the smartest guy there

00:43:09I mean you're supposed to be

00:43:13Theologically and biblically I think I was in my church

00:43:16But you know if I'm just comparing myself to a handful of people, I'm the smartest person there

00:43:22That's not saying very much right, you know

00:43:24If you can be in a group of a hundred million and be the smartest person you're pretty smart

00:43:28But I was desperate for peers. I wanted the theological banter

00:43:34I wanted the

00:43:35Arguing not in a mean spirit, but I wanted that that's not what this text says because read this

00:43:41No that you are wrong because read this, you know, because I think that's where you get somewhere

00:43:48you don't get somewhere when you just lay down on your back and let some steamroller roll over the top of you and

00:43:56Tell you these are all the answers the people that I teach now

00:44:00I had this saying and I tell them when I'm when I'm talking, you know, you're welcome to ask a question

00:44:04there are two kinds of questions that I will not answer number one a

00:44:09Question where if I answer it, I'm spoiling the surprise because that's going to be in my next teaching and number two

00:44:15I'm not going to answer those questions that I don't know the answer to you know

00:44:19That's the other question you had to refuse to answer because ministers feel

00:44:25Like they have some obligation to know everything

00:44:28Well, heck we don't know everything and you don't need to be under that obligation to know everything

00:44:34But and we need to be smarter than the congregation at least in biblical or why are we the leader?

00:44:40We need to sit down and let somebody else get up there

00:44:43But so these guys back in that maybe they have and I'm sure they have I know they have they have progressed

00:44:50Because we all have had 40 years since Hobart's death to progress in biblical and theological knowledge

00:44:56I'm talking about when I made that statement

00:44:59I'm talking about then they couldn't fight their way out of because if they could if you were biblically and

00:45:07Theologically sound why didn't they challenge Hobart? I was

00:45:11Why didn't they why didn't they band together? Why didn't two of them get together?

00:45:15Why didn't three of them in the mouth of two or three witnesses? Let every word be established. Why didn't they organize a little group?

00:45:22Why didn't they stop the madness? Why didn't they warn him or warn the people?

00:45:28That I'm just gonna leave question mark. That's just an open-ended question. Why didn't you do something?

00:45:35I was doing something about it from my you know distant

00:45:40Perspective I was writing letters. I was calling. Dr. Freeman on the phone

00:45:45I couldn't always get through to him and I understand that busy man. He's got a lot of people

00:45:49I'm a nobody but sometimes, you know, June would say, okay channel he'll talk to you and

00:45:55we would talk and you know, I know he read the letters until

00:46:00Probably he got to the point where?

00:46:03They were relatively

00:46:05consistent in their

00:46:07Criticism or their questioning and then when he sees my name and return address

00:46:12He just throws that in file 13, you know, that's gone. So John, I mean is is that not a fair question?

00:46:20Why didn't if you if you guys knew that this this belief on divine healing and this?

00:46:28144,000 and man-child and if you believe if you knew that was not biblical

00:46:35Why do you do something about it?

00:46:37Yeah

00:46:38you know, that's why I enjoy having people like you on the podcast because

00:46:43My personality so far different. It's like we're two opposite extremes. I

00:46:49I'm not a I'm very non-confrontational if you can't tell that already by my podcast and I see the good in all people, you know

00:46:59Well, no it it takes all people it all kinds of people to run the world and that's one of the concepts

00:47:05That's really hardest to grasp when you're in the cult. That's why I made the comment last time about the iron sharp sharpens iron

00:47:12They they don't like that at all. I

00:47:15My personality doesn't make me enjoy it as the thing

00:47:19But you know, so I see the humor and everything and I'm a big jokester. You know this from talking to me

00:47:26I had this

00:47:28In one of my first jobs, I had this really good friend and I should have never done this to him

00:47:32But I did every night after work for six straight months. I'm talking every single night

00:47:39I made sure that I worked 15 minutes longer than him

00:47:42Because I walked in his office every single night after he left and I would push his desk one millimeter closer to the wall

00:47:49And so he couldn't tell that it was being moved

00:47:53But after about four months or five months into he said man

00:47:56I just feel like I don't know John the walls are closing in I've started a diet

00:48:01You know, I'm I'm thankful he can thank me for his diet and his health got better

00:48:07Because of this for me, that's funny

00:48:09You know, I probably shouldn't have done that but where I'm headed with all of this is when you're being manipulated in a mind-control cult

00:48:17The changes are very subtle and I mentioned Jim Jones earlier

00:48:21Nobody joined Jim Jones is called the people's temple and said hey

00:48:26I want to go drink cyanide laced cool cool aid with the rest of the crowd and kill myself

00:48:30nobody does this you take small pieces and you move just like that desk you move it closer and closer and

00:48:37the people who are being manipulated often don't even realize that they are and

00:48:42All at the same time they're being trained with this very black or white mentality on

00:48:48Everything you're either with us or you're against us. You're either with the theology or you're a critic. It's that kind of thing. So I

00:48:57give them a little bit of grace because

00:49:00Me having been indoctrinated in one of these things I I was just like them

00:49:05I thought I had truth true word of God theology

00:49:08and I've learned that very little that I had was actually correct and at one point and

00:49:14Not many people are willing to do this. That's the sad part at one point

00:49:18I had to wipe the entire slate clean and I literally started from the very basics of

00:49:24Everything I started with is there a God and then I once you make that leap you go further and further and okay

00:49:31Is Jesus part of you know is Christianity the true religion and then you go further and further

00:49:36I I started from nothing and built up

00:49:39Most people what they like to do

00:49:41I mentioned the structure earlier with the cheap vinyl floor on the top

00:49:46What most people will do is they'll peel up the vinyl floor and let's see one layer below it. Yeah, that's bad

00:49:51Let's rip it out

00:49:52Let's put another vinyl floor over all of these layers and layers and layers and layers and layers of bad theology

00:49:59That's usually how it works. And so they may they may truly believe that they have sound theology

00:50:06Even back then some of the people who are waking up. I don't see what you said is really

00:50:12Negative it takes people like you to help people to wake up

00:50:17And that's why I invite people like you on the podcast because I can't do that my personality is so much different

00:50:22well, let me share personally John from from deep personal experience that I

00:50:30Can remember as a 25 year I'm 65 years old today, you know, I don't care what anybody thinks now

00:50:36I don't really mean that but I mean, I'm

00:50:40I'm pretty secure, but I'm willing to listen to anybody about anything

00:50:45But I'm not timid when I was 25 years old and I am going to try to address my mentor

00:50:52That was a difficult task

00:50:55If people think that I just thought oh, I know it all now. I'm gonna go correct. Dr. Freeman. They're totally wrong

00:51:02It was a difficult task. You can't even quite

00:51:07Understand it unless you've been through it unless you have been at that point in your life a really young minister

00:51:15Who was very much indebted to dr. Freeman for a lot of groundwork in my theology and my approach to scripture

00:51:23because

00:51:24The facts are I was very indebted to him

00:51:28but at the same time as as I've said over and over the

00:51:33Biggest blessing that God ever gave me at that time was keeping me from ever becoming a member of Faith Assembly

00:51:40Because I could have just been a clone like the rest of them and then had to fight my way out of it

00:51:45for God to have just

00:51:47Supernaturally called me from Mississippi to move to Minnesota. I didn't know anybody within hundreds of miles and I had been married

00:51:56Two weeks didn't even own a car had two thousand dollars to my name had a new bride

00:52:01We just packed up and moved and I just knew from the Lord

00:52:05I needed to go to the Minneapolis area and go west of that area. That's literally I rented a U-Haul drove out west

00:52:14Found an apartment rented it and unpacked and just sat down and food. What do I do next?

00:52:20I had no job had $2,000 did not own a car

00:52:24We called a bus to go to the grocery store and called a bus back home

00:52:29But within a matter of two months God just brought people into our life

00:52:34I met this person and I met this person and then somebody invited me to teach in a little home church way out in

00:52:41Southwestern Minnesota

00:52:42It seemed like it took me several hours to go there and I think I got two dozen eggs

00:52:47For my teaching that night. I said they sent home two dozen eggs. It was a farm another place. I went to

00:52:55full gospel businessmen's meeting that

00:52:58Invited me to speak at that and you know back in those days you leave with $50 or something

00:53:03But I was just on I was just on cloud nine as it were because I thought wow, you know

00:53:08This is coming to pass what God has called us to do that

00:53:11I finally got with this little group of people who literally said Jenna

00:53:16We have been praying for two years for God to send us a teacher. We know we need to learn things

00:53:22I didn't know much

00:53:23But the little bit that I knew was just a little bit more than they knew and and that's all it took

00:53:29But whenever I became a pastor, I just found out these little sayings of Hobart

00:53:35They just don't quite work that way because it's not exactly because I have people come and ask me a question after a teaching

00:53:43Well, what about this verse over here?

00:53:45And I'd go. Yeah

00:53:47What about that verse over there?

00:53:51And I feel sorry but my people were wonderful they loved me they were patient with me and I

00:53:58Was just determined that I was going to pour myself

00:54:01Into study and I was going to learn and my little income that I had I can remember I made myself a little study in

00:54:08our in our in my

00:54:10basement of my home in Waconia

00:54:13317 South Elm Street in Waconia, Minnesota

00:54:16And and when I would get some money, I would send off an order

00:54:21$22 for two books

00:54:23$35 for six books, whatever week after we

00:54:28Goodbye, you don't know who's liberal who's conservative who's neat neo-orthodox, you know

00:54:34Who is what it took me a little time to start to figure that out?

00:54:39And I just began to order and order and let me if you don't mind

00:54:43Let me throw in a personal story. I ended up living in New England end up going to seminary outside of Boston and

00:54:49and I went to a place to buy some books there and if anybody used to buy books back in the

00:54:5770s and 80s they'll remember CBD

00:54:59They were Christian book distributors and when I was in Minnesota, I bought everything from them

00:55:05So I'm in seminary outside of Boston Christian book distributors is also in that same area

00:55:10They were having some kind of it was in the fall some kind of you know

00:55:15promotional sale where they raised like the garage door on

00:55:19their facility and you can walk in and there was a long line of people and there was a

00:55:24Cashier at the cash register and everybody was checking out. So I had a stack of books. This is a true

00:55:31Story, I had a stack of books. I come up to the cashier and I don't remember why but in

00:55:37In paying for the books. They also want to know your name or something

00:55:41Maybe it gets you on a mailing list and she asked me. So what's your name? And I said Cheno Ross

00:55:47And she looked up at me and she said

00:55:50Did you say Cheno Ross this is a cashier and I said yes, and she said are you the

00:55:56Cheno Ross. I said the only one I know of fortunately and she said oh my goodness

00:56:04She said you're the person who's bought more books from us than anybody

00:56:08She said we got to stop. Come on. I want to enter

00:56:12everybody inside

00:56:13John they take me into the main office of the president there of CBD and they just I mean

00:56:20They just treated me like I was royalty. I was nothing but a schmuck

00:56:24You know, I was just this minister who loved to study theology and epistemology and apologetics

00:56:32I just love to study and they said we are so thankful to get to meet you and I'm a nobody

00:56:39I'm no celebrity, you know, I mean, I'm not Martin Luther or John Calvin

00:56:43I'm just me and they said, you know to show our appreciation

00:56:47Any commentary any theological word book study anything you want just take it. It's anything you want

00:56:53It's on the house today. And so I walked out of there was just loads of books that those people gave me

00:57:00so my point is I was doing my homework and

00:57:04Because I was doing my homework. It doesn't make me anybody special. It was my job

00:57:09You know, I felt if you're gonna be a professional

00:57:11It's your job to do your job and I'm can't write on anybody else's back to get into theological heaven

00:57:19You know, I've got to do this on my own. And so it was difficult for me very difficult

00:57:25I as a 25 year old to try to offer some critique and I was I guess naive

00:57:32Yeah, definitely naive to think that anybody would listen

00:57:36But I don't ever want to be that way in my life, I don't think I am to this day

00:57:40I'll have people in my where I teach now. They'll ask a question. Well, how do you square that with this?

00:57:48And I'll say that's a good question. And here's how I answer that. I don't take it

00:57:52I don't I'm not offended by I mean don't we want our students to end up smarter than us

00:57:58Don't parents want their children to end up better than they are themselves

00:58:03That's the whole goal if your goal is to always be the smartest one then you're failing in your mission

00:58:09You know, you want to be teaching those people so man their mind is clicking like this now

00:58:15they're thinking faster than you're thinking and

00:58:18Before you know it they caught you in something and maybe I'm overstating the case

00:58:23but my point is we just have to have a generous spirit and a real spirit that we

00:58:29That we want these that we want our people, you know, we want them to understand for themselves

00:58:36I tell them all the time if any man ever tells you believe this because I said it

00:58:43Walk out the door immediately

00:58:45That's the last time you ever ever ever ever

00:58:48Need to listen to him if he said believe this because I said it to you

00:58:53You believe it because you're convinced in your own mind and when I saw what was going on with dr. Freeman

00:58:59I thought it was like the Emperor had no clothes on and

00:59:04Everybody was afraid to tell him

00:59:07You know, and I just wasn't going to be a part of that if they recognize he didn't have clothes on. I

00:59:15Recognize that he didn't and I was gonna say something about it, you know channel people aren't going to know what to think of us

00:59:21Here we're talking about half and we're talking about CBD. And what are we selling here?

00:59:25you mentioned the

00:59:28authoritarianism of

00:59:30Theology and I think that's important for people to understand. I want to hone in on that just a bit

00:59:35because

00:59:37the way in which things were

00:59:40Especially in religion in the 50s and 60s and remember these these cults are really stuck in the 50s and 60s

00:59:47They don't even realize it, but that's the way it was you had

00:59:51Somebody who was your primary source your leader and everybody looked up to them and

00:59:57people over time have realized that that's a very ineffective strategy and

01:00:03Largely they learned this from other countries that had abandoned that strategy

01:00:08Decades prior but now in the IT world. We call it a crowdsourcing strategy

01:00:13One person gets some knowledge and they share it with others and other people use that knowledge and combine it with theirs and then their

01:00:21Knowledge comes up higher. Well, the first person who shared it

01:00:24He now learns from the other guy and he comes up to a higher plane

01:00:27so everybody's lifted up and in the way these authoritarian cults and

01:00:32Sad to say but largely Christian religion in general of the 50s

01:00:36it was a pyramid structure and the guy at the top is usually the one who

01:00:41Glorified himself in that control whether he wanted to or not

01:00:45Because these the figures it was the strategy everybody was doing and it was just common for the era

01:00:51now in today's world, that's not the way it works, but

01:00:54There's so much more we could talk about

01:00:57Still we haven't finished the full update. So we've gone over an hour

01:01:01Let's uh, let's cut it off here and let's come back and finish it up

01:01:05So if you've enjoyed our show and you want to learn more information, you can check us out on the web

01:01:11You can find us at William dash Branham org for an overview of the historical research of William Branham and the healing revivals

01:01:18Read preacher behind the white hoods a critical examination of William Branham and his message available on Amazon Kindle and audible

01:01:35You

01:02:05You

01:02:29You

Faith Assembly 2024 Update Part 2 - Episode 175 Branham Research

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