Our Stories: An Interview With Destiny Ngalula - Episode 155 Branham Podcast
Support the show:
https://www.patreon.com/branham
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John invites Destiny Ngalula to talk about her experience in William Branham's cult of personality, making an escape plan, her escape, and her newfound freedom. Destiny shares her journey of growing up in a highly religious household while attending public school. This dual experience led her to question the strict religious doctrines she was raised with. Her father, a preacher, enforced rules that clashed with the norms of her public school environment, creating internal conflict. Destiny describes her unique upbringing, characterized by frequent disagreements with her father over dress codes and other religious mandates. Her mother, though supportive, also faced the challenge of navigating these strict expectations. Despite the constraints, Destiny excelled academically and planned to use education as her path to independence.
As she matured, Destiny’s critical thinking grew stronger, leading her to question the exclusivity and rigid practices of the Message. Her father’s severe accident and subsequent need for intensive care became a pivotal moment, causing a shift in family dynamics and religious practices. Destiny reflects on the superficial nature of religious appearances within the Message and the importance of developing personal strength and a clear exit strategy for those wishing to leave similar environments. She emphasizes the value of education and independent thought, offering encouragement to others in similar situations to find their path and hold onto their convictions.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Welcoming Destiny Ngalula
00:52 Destiny’s Background
02:04 Education and Family Dynamics
03:05 Early Church Experiences
05:06 Questioning the Message
06:45 Public School Experiences
09:00 Church Politics and Funding Issues
11:06 Feeling Different in School
12:14 Conflict Between Church and School
14:22 Childhood Frustrations and Independence
17:06 Differences in
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
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– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
John invites Destiny Ngalula to talk about her experience in William Branham's cult of personality, making an escape plan, her escape, and her newfound freedom. Destiny shares her journey of growing up in a highly religious household while attending public school. This dual experience led her to question the strict religious doctrines she was raised with. Her father, a preacher, enforced rules that clashed with the norms of her public school environment, creating internal conflict. Destiny describes her unique upbringing, characterized by frequent disagreements with her father over dress codes and other religious mandates. Her mother, though supportive, also faced the challenge of navigating these strict expectations. Despite the constraints, Destiny excelled academically and planned to use education as her path to independence.
As she matured, Destiny’s critical thinking grew stronger, leading her to question the exclusivity and rigid practices of the Message. Her father’s severe accident and subsequent need for intensive care became a pivotal moment, causing a shift in family dynamics and religious practices. Destiny reflects on the superficial nature of religious appearances within the Message and the importance of developing personal strength and a clear exit strategy for those wishing to leave similar environments. She emphasizes the value of education and independent thought, offering encouragement to others in similar situations to find their path and hold onto their convictions.
00:00 Introduction
00:31 Welcoming Destiny Ngalula
00:52 Destiny’s Background
02:04 Education and Family Dynamics
03:05 Early Church Experiences
05:06 Questioning the Message
06:45 Public School Experiences
09:00 Church Politics and Funding Issues
11:06 Feeling Different in School
12:14 Conflict Between Church and School
14:22 Childhood Frustrations and Independence
17:06 Differences in
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Transcript
00:00You
00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research
00:35podcast. I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham
00:40historical research at william-branham.org and with me I have my very
00:45special guest, Destiny Galula, former member of The Message. Destiny, it's so
00:51good to have you here today to talk about your experience in The Message and
00:56to share your story of escape and we've chatted a few times via email but I'm
01:02wanting to learn more about you and I'm certain our audience is so maybe if you
01:07could just take a moment or two and tell us a little bit about yourself. So yeah
01:12my name is Destiny. I'm in my second year of my undergrad. I'm working to be a
01:19teacher. I'm actually from Canada and I basically grew up in The Message. I had
01:27a very unique childhood that most probably won't have in The Message so
01:33it's kind of like a different perspective. I grew up going to church
01:38but I also grew up going to public school so I had a very conflicted
01:44childhood of like what do I want to do what I want to be and I kind of
01:49questioned everything which is something normally people won't do so it kind of
01:54turned me into who I am now today. I am one of the unusual ones too. I also went
02:01to public school and my children did not which is interesting. We chose not to, my
02:08wife and I, but I'm one of the ones who was allowed an education but higher
02:13degrees education was frowned upon. Honestly for the churches that I
02:20grew up in it was heavily frowned upon until my aunt married a person who
02:27had a doctor's and some scientific degree and then suddenly it's okay for
02:32everybody to have a college education in the main sect of The Message which is
02:37also kind of odd but I did not question everything until I was gosh I was
02:44probably 36 years old before really the question started to surface so what was
02:49that like growing up and having questions about The Message? Yeah kind of
02:53to start the other day I was looking back at old family photos and I saw a
02:59picture of me and my older brother when we were young and in the background it's
03:04a church in the background and I really had a moment and kind of like thought
03:08about it and just was like wow this was really kind of what I was brought up in
03:13since I was a baby. My parents were watching church on their TV obviously
03:18because my mom had two under two so sometimes she didn't want to bring us to
03:23church and my dad was a pastor actually in a few of the churches we grew up in
03:32kind of growing up I remember not necessarily going to church often
03:38because my mom had us all at a very young age and she used to tell me like
03:45taking us out was a big chore so she liked to keep us inside sometimes tag
03:51teaming like taking two of us at a time because there's four of us and we're all
03:56pretty close in age so I don't really remember until we moved from the moved
04:06from Ontario, Montreal, Quebec area we moved all the way down to Edmonton which
04:13is west of Canada and when we moved to the west I remember my parents saying
04:19that we're gonna start going often and my dad was looking for some preacher
04:27position so I do distinctively remember going to three churches in my childhood
04:33but for like a period of time and I kind of remember before going for my first
04:41time consistently my parents kind of telling us about how we should act
04:46etiquette but before that I do remember often just my parents talking about like
04:56the rules that you had to follow and like the do's and don'ts kind of like
05:02the textbook. Some of the things and how I kind of had a very unique childhood is
05:09that I was often at heads with my dad because he was a preacher he was very
05:15strict on rules but I went to public school and my mom grew up Catholic so
05:21this was kind of new for not just us as kids but just for my mom as well where
05:26different things like the way I would dress me and my dad would always be in
05:31heads-on because he was like you need to wear skirts and dresses 24-7 and I was
05:37like no I want to wear pants and shorts like the other kids so that's kind of
05:42where in my childhood the question started I'd say when I was really young
05:47the moment I started school maybe four or five is when these questions started
05:53because of those fights of frustration because it wasn't what I wanted to do I
05:59did not want to do these things and often would butt heads with my dad my
06:05mom would vouch for me often she was the one she was the one buying me those
06:11clothes and that also put a strain in their relationship so I just remember
06:17oftentimes when my mom vouching for me being like don't tell dad I bought you
06:23this different things like that and so that was kind of my childhood growing up
06:30I was often at heads with my dad oftentimes my mom would vouch for me
06:36sometimes she'd be like we lost this battle you just have to conform but I
06:42just remember being very frustrated as a kid I wanted to do things like all the
06:48other kids and that's where those questions came from yeah it's much
06:52different for a guy because I was in public school and I could do a lot of
06:55the things that the other guys did because the rules for the girls are more
06:59extreme and the rules for the guys you know a guy doesn't really care if I'm
07:04wearing pants or shorts I'm and I just always wore pants when I was in school
07:09so it's so much different and I can't really even relate to it but I can
07:16relate to going to the multiple churches I went I wish I had only gone to three
07:20we went to several different ones and for me that was you know if I were to
07:27say that I had questions which I really didn't but there were times that I
07:31thought about the churches because you go to this one church and they have this
07:36thing that is their agenda and they just every sermon it's this this this this
07:41thing then you go to another church and it's a different agenda and the rules
07:45are different and the people are different and sometimes if you go to
07:49Church B they they don't fellowship with Church A because the rules are so
07:53different did you experience any of that when when you were shifting from church
07:58to church? I did kind of recognize that because I was so young and I also had an
08:04older brother I felt like my parents told him a lot of things that were going
08:09on and what other people were saying and he knows about like the different things
08:16going on that Church A does not agree with what Church B does and Church C and
08:22Church B are kind of in cahoots with each other so yeah it was a different
08:27world yeah and I remember going to some churches where the the church pastor or
08:35maybe a person in the church they feel like they had this prophetic gift and it
08:40was always so vague and weird I do remember clearly men getting up and
08:44saying that they had this thing from God and they whenever they start to say what
08:50it was it really had no meaning it was like it was so vague that you could
08:54apply it to anything and then you go to another church and they're like calling
08:58this guy out this sometimes there's a battle between the churches I don't know
09:03if you experienced that in Canada yeah I would say kind of the behind the scenes
09:09and issues and why we kind of switch churches I don't know a lot of
09:15information of this is kind of when I was a kid listening into my parents and
09:19other adults talking it had a lot to do with funding and where the money was
09:28coming from and where it was being spent one church was saying that this church
09:33is using their money for themselves or selfish and then this other church I
09:39don't know this is just like conversations I heard I hope that if I
09:45talk to my brother sometime in the future he can lean me into more about it
09:51but I just remember my mom saying like we're not gonna go there cuz they're
09:54corrupt and then her and my dad would get into this whole conversation but I
10:00was just too young to understand but now that I'm older I want to know more about
10:03it so tell us a little bit about what school was like I'm fascinated to hear
10:09that you were in a home where the two sides were kind of divided because my
10:15house it wasn't that way and so I had the cult mindset I was in school and I
10:21you know you're you're ingrained indoctrinated you're indoctrinated with
10:25this belief that you have ingrained in your head mentality of an elitist so
10:30there were other Christians who could have been my peers but I never got close
10:34to them because they weren't message Christians and so you saw yourself as
10:38somewhat better than those people and then at the same time you really did not
10:45want to get close because it's a doomsday cult you're living the end of
10:48the world and if there wasn't that synergy between your parents I'm not
10:54certain how much of that would have went into your I don't know what you call it
10:59the family dynamic sometimes focuses around the end of days so did you have
11:04any of those experiences did you feel you were different than other people at
11:08school I definitely 100% felt different and many ways I could say I felt
11:16different because of my family background not just because of the
11:21church just because of my parents are African they immigrated from Canada so I
11:26felt different I mean they immigrated from Africa to Canada so I felt
11:31different I felt different because I was being grown up in a certain way and
11:38I feel like at a young age I was very like I've always been a critical thinker
11:43because I noticed some things that were different and they told me that it's
11:49okay to be different it's okay to not be like the world because it's good we are
11:53better but I was questioning these things because in a way I felt sad in a
12:02way I felt kind of pity for them it's like oh if they don't follow our way
12:07they don't follow our church they're gonna go to hell and I felt bad I felt
12:12sad and I also felt different in the church because I was questioning things
12:18from a really young age I did not agree with everything they said I didn't
12:25really think that it applied to me and applied to my life so I did I did feel
12:33very different and I can remember kind of going to school and kind of I felt
12:41normal in a way going to school I felt that I could be myself less strict
12:49environment I could be free but there were little things that were different
12:53about me all the girls had their ears pierced and I didn't and I remember one
12:59day some kids being like oh my gosh you don't have your ears pierced like some
13:04little girls and though you know when one person says something the whole crew
13:10comes to know like what they're asking me questions and I remember kind of
13:16feeling embarrassed and saying like oh it's my religion it's what we believe
13:20and I just said oh well maybe one day I'll get them pierced I don't know my
13:24parents won't let me I didn't really give a reason why and some other things
13:30is that whenever we would go to birthday parties when we were younger we weren't
13:36allowed to wear nail polish we weren't allowed to get our nails done at all and
13:41birthday gifts would be makeup it would be jeans it would be like earrings no
13:49like nail fake nails and I remember seeing that and I'm like I want those
13:55things but it's against kind of what my parents believe in and that's where I
14:03kind of felt conflicted it's like well I can't make myself not want those
14:08things I want those things so that's kind of when I became where I began kind
14:14of questioning is this really something that applies to my life is this really
14:22like like why like why do I have to follow these rules and then I could say
14:28I kind of began feeling a sense of hatred like I just hated the way I was
14:34growing up and I hate I started hating going to church I wasn't really
14:39interested in it because I wanted to be like everybody else but I was forced to
14:45be in this environment and I felt like there was kind of no really way out
14:51until I was older so when I was younger I kind of already planned it out I was
14:57like I'm gonna do so well in school and that's kind of why I excelled so much in
15:02school and why it was so important to me for me to be my undergrad I was like
15:05I'm gonna move out of my parents house I'm going to move on live my life the
15:12way I want it to be I just have to get through this these years and my
15:16childhood yeah so I can say that right before I left the message I shared some
15:23of the same sentiment not because I wanted to paint my fingernails because I
15:27still am not really comfortable with that but I started noticing that the
15:33churches were very the religion itself was very superficial it was a religion
15:38of appearances and you had to keep up your appearances and that's different
15:44for the female half because on the female half you can visually see the
15:47differences there are women who have the long hair the long dresses no makeup no
15:51cosmetics fingernail painting etc for the guys you could have two guys one
15:58being a message guy and one not hanging together in the mall and you couldn't
16:03tell them apart for the most part you know so for me it was different for the
16:10males but there was also the superficial like appearance that you had to keep up
16:15you had to show yourself to be better than the other people and I began to be
16:21conflicted by this right before I left the message because many of my peers
16:26were good Christian people and they were genuine people and so that like there
16:32was this false sense of Christianity that you had to hold up you had to be
16:37one of the what are they called the chosen few the elite whatever you call
16:41yourself in this thing and you had to keep that up and and it was very taxing
16:47on your mind to try to do this and then you can be around another Christian he's
16:51just this genuine guy and he's just being himself and we're trying to be
16:56better than them so I while I don't share it with the painting of the
17:00fingernails I did share the appearance side of things because I come to realize
17:06right before I left that the whole cult was really nothing more than just
17:09keeping up appearances and in many cases it was a false front because the the
17:15things that they believed weren't really that Christian I do agree it was
17:20kind of that false front and I knew as a kid that I just couldn't fake it I went
17:26to public school I I broke many rules that usually people in the church don't
17:34really break but it's also because of that divided household there are many
17:38things that we did we lived in a neighborhood and most people usually
17:43live in properties somewhat out of town so I was exposed to a lot of that we did
17:53own a TV I had a phone and some kids don't really have that access to
17:58technology because it's seen that it's bad it's seen as you shouldn't really
18:04like stay away from that temptations are gonna come and yeah it was I was like
18:11this is kind of just like who I am this is kind of who I'm around I was around
18:15other Catholics because I went to a Catholic school my parents felt that
18:22putting me in public school like in Canada I don't know if there's like if
18:28it's different in the States I know in Canada there's two types of schools you
18:32could go to like the public board you can go to the Catholic board and they
18:37chose the Catholic board because like okay well it's not necessarily what we
18:42believe in but you're not exposed to the things that go on in the public board
18:47and yeah I was around that we prayed three times a day I was around this
18:54different religion and my family was also mainly Catholic on my mom's side so
19:01my parents were saying these things like people who don't believe in us is all
19:09the other religions are false kind of this feeling is that we're better and I
19:15began to question I was like well even though they don't follow these rules
19:20they still love God they still pray they still read the Bible is God also not
19:27with them either so that's where kind of these questions kind of form and I
19:33started kind of thinking very deeply about how I feel about being a part of
19:42the message and kind of realizing that I don't really align a hundred percent
19:50with what they believe in believe in and this is from kind of as a kid from a
19:56very young age a big thing when you messaged when you kind of brought up
20:02this front is that I have an uncle he's very very religious I would say he's
20:09very I think non-denominational Protestant I can't really describe his
20:17church but I visited his church a few times throughout my childhood and as a
20:24teen and I would say my teen years was when I kind of fully stopped being
20:32stopped mainly following the rules we also stopped going to church we'll get
20:37to hope it later but I remember just thinking about him and just his family
20:43and their faith and I was like wow there's really people that are devoted
20:49to being a Christian devoted to their faith and I was thinking about same
20:55thing with the message they're devoted but why do we think that we're better
20:59than someone else just because they don't follow the same rules I remember
21:04going to church and just looking at the way people dress in a modern church
21:10versus the message completely different obviously when you go to a more
21:17non-denominational Sunday's best is not really a thing everyone's so casual
21:23going to church it's like kind of like how people would dress going to work and
21:28I was like wow like you can just worship God and you should you can just believe
21:36in him just as you are and not just based off of appearance yeah it's such a
21:43change we do have Catholic schools in the States and it's always fascinating
21:48to me to find a person who was in the message who went to a Catholic school
21:51you're not the only one that I know that this is the case because the Catholics
21:56were supposed to be the enemy right yeah religion so yeah the parents who send
22:01them there it's like did they not understand the reason why this religion
22:05exists and it's just it's so ironic I I went to public school but not Catholic
22:12school and I have mentioned on the podcast I grew up without a television
22:17I've also mentioned on the podcast I also grew up with a television because
22:22there there are people who they will have it for a while and then they'll
22:26decide wait a minute William Branham said we're not allowed to have it so
22:30let's get rid of it and so then they get rid of it for a while and then it comes
22:33back and just back and forth so a majority of my life I didn't have one
22:38there were times that I did and right before I left it was the on off on off
22:45so we didn't have one right before before I moved to Jeffersonville and
22:50I'll never forget whenever we decided my parents decided no more television only
22:57thing I wanted to watch was Bugs Bunny in the cartoons man and I was like this
23:00is not wrong to watch Bugs Bunny I don't it was I guess I can say if there were a
23:05conflict that I had with the religion at that point it was that Bugs Bunny is not
23:10bad but that's that's the closest that I have to this but so you experienced your
23:16uncle's church which is a different church and you got to see both sides of
23:22you know non-cult Christianity and cult Christianity there are a lot of message
23:28people that don't get to see this so I I expect that probably was very conflicting
23:33for you to see you know family who were in Christian churches versus the message
23:38churches yeah it was very conflicting because I grew up more in the public area
23:47I had school friends who were not in message so I'd go to their houses and
23:53see how they lived their life and I was like wow that's kind of that sense of
23:58feeling very different I was like wow the way that they lived their life is so
24:04different from the way I live my life it's just it was just a really different
24:10world and it became so conflicting and I kind of took things from the way other
24:16people live their life and just wonder like why we couldn't be like them and
24:22like I started questioning a lot of things I was like why was I born into
24:28this kind of that like regret like I would have been better off in a
24:34different family but obviously in this life you can't choose like where you're
24:38born in you can't choose what type of family you have you kind of just have to
24:43learn to stick through it and I kind of had to learn throughout my childhood I
24:47would say with the TV thing very similar we had it for a few years they removed
24:55it had it they removed it and now we don't have one but we have laptops
25:02phones yeah we have a Netflix subscription so I could just watch it on
25:08the laptop but I do remember that sense of when they took the TV away that sense
25:17of boredom I would say I was in around like fifth grade when the TV was taken
25:24away because I just became so used to it it was other reasons to my why they
25:31took TV away not just for religious reasons they also felt that we were
25:35watching too much television and not doing our homework so another reason to
25:40add to it but I was just like wow I just want to watch Disney Channel that's all
25:47I cared about my friends will be talking about something that happened in a
25:53common show we watched and I'm like stop don't spoil it luckily for YouTube back
25:59then I remember people just used to upload like episodes on YouTube before
26:04they started flagging them now you can't but I remember just waiting like a
26:09couple days for it to be up to watch but that was kind of my experience with the
26:14TV as well yeah and so many people today like there are entire message churches
26:20that they're not aware they're not supposed to watch television which
26:23blows my mind because when I was growing up that was not a thing you weren't
26:27allowed but many of them do exactly like you say now they're watching Netflix or
26:32Disney and especially now that Star Wars has come on the Disney subscriptions
26:37half the message people now have a Disney subscription so they can watch
26:41this watch the little Mandalorian show and whatnot but yes just so it's just so
26:47odd and your experience also so it drove you to be more inclined to go to
26:55college and that that's fascinating because there are a lot of women
26:59especially that they were so indoctrinated that they may never go to
27:03college even after escaping some of them won't I'll never forget I went I went to
27:09college I was in the message but I had I'd got married before I decided to go
27:14and I'll never forget sitting there thinking about just being there because
27:19all of those years talking about how higher education is of the devil and
27:25then you get there and you're literally learning things about life you're
27:29learning I mean some of it is scholarly of course but some of the things that
27:33they're teaching you like I'm glad I went I wish everybody went what was that
27:38like for you when you went to college I would say by the time I started my first
27:45year of school I was way completely away from the message and now coming into
27:54school I'm learning so many things about the real world it's insane and I kind of
28:01wish that more people did go to school because you learn a lot of things and
28:05you are around many different people I've met a lot of people from different
28:12faiths different backgrounds and also people who look like me and you can kind
28:19of relate to them about specific cultural things where when you're kind
28:24of stuck in one culture you're not really exposed to that so yeah honestly
28:30just coming to college it's a whole new environment I would say lots of
28:37independence you learn so much about being independent because you have to
28:42nobody is going to chase you down the hallway to get your homework done like
28:48they did in high school there's no running away from your teachers it's
28:53either you pass or fail and it's kind of based on your worth ethic so I I do like
29:02I do really like school and I would also say my parents were very pro school
29:08which is different from most people they were very pro like go to school get your
29:15degree I would say kind of in a sense not comes from a religious standpoint
29:21it comes from their background in Africa their culture because African parents
29:32are very hard on their kids about school and making sure that they're raising
29:37them to be successful because they don't want you just to sit around at home not
29:43get a degree what is your grandma gonna think what are the people back home are
29:49gonna think what my mom would say so yeah my mom pushed many different
29:56careers on us my mom was like you need to go to university be a doctor or be a
30:06lawyer she wanted something in a career of high success because that is what she
30:11seeked for us my dad also still to this day still seeks those things but he wants
30:19at least one of us to go in the medical field because that's where he worked and
30:24about school I also remember often my mom going back to school so I don't
30:31really understand the situation I do know she went to school before
30:35immigrating to Canada she has a degree from the University she went to but
30:42sometimes when you have a degree from another country it's not really accepted
30:47in the new country so she went back to college I think she has her ECE early
30:53childhood education she has a university degree or college degree of some sorts
31:01she has many different degrees I just remember when I was in school when I
31:08like grade one grade two I do remember her often studying being in school my
31:15dad obviously was a nurse and went to nursing school so he encouraged at least
31:20one of us to follow along his path of medicine or being a pilot one of his
31:28dreams is for one of us to do those things and yeah school is a very
31:33important factor in my household well that's good in the Jeffersonville area
31:39there was a phrase I think it came directly from William Branham but it
31:42something to the effect if you're gonna be a thief be the best thief you can be
31:47which you know when you're talking about be a doctor be a lawyer be there's so
31:53many better aspirations and they could choose than a thief but that's that's
31:57kind of the way it was and I'm sure certain that was with you know with a
32:01completely different understanding they were they were talking about just simply
32:05be the best you can be but it's really good that you went to college or are
32:09going to college and working towards your degree congratulations on that so
32:15do you remember whenever your family migrated to Canada I was actually born
32:21in Canada my parents moved Oh way before I was born some somewhere between 1995
32:31until 2000 is when they met and then all of us were born right after that
32:39but I was born in Ontario and I do remember kind of little bits of my
32:47childhood in Ontario in the Quebec but I do mainly mostly remember my time in
32:55Alberta and I lived in Edmonton and my parents were very heavy on like school
33:02getting a good education because that's kind of what they did that's kind of
33:07what they know and especially if you are a newcomer you you have to kind of
33:13play the game of doing the best you can to survive which is going to school and
33:21getting a degree of some sort and getting a good job and that was the main
33:28thing my parents were like you need a good job you need to thrive you need to
33:31survive you need to make sure that you are educated you are doing well in your
33:39career so they instilled a lot of those things into us oftentimes in our
33:45childhood have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started or how the
33:51progression of modern Pentecostal ism transition through the latter rain
33:55charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic Reformation you
34:00can learn this and more on William Branham historical researches website
34:04william-branham.org on the books page of the website you can find the compiled
34:11research of John Collins Charles Paisley Stephen Montgomery John MacKinnon and
34:16others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each book you can
34:22also find resources and documentation on various people and topics related to
34:27those movements if you want to contribute to the cause you can support
34:31the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top and as always be sure
34:36to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're listening to
34:40or watching on behalf of William Branham historical research we want to thank you
34:45for your support so one of the things that you said that I really liked it
34:49because it's the same exact thing that I tell people in the support groups is
34:53that you must have a plan why why you're in the cult and then you realize
34:57that something is wrong especially if you're not yet of age to move out have a
35:02plan be ready to be ready to move out because there are a lot of people who
35:08are wanting to leave the message some of them living with their parents and they
35:13just have no exit strategy what was it that made you decide to to form that in
35:20your mind because you you're doing really well for yourself and it seems
35:24like you have put into motion things that you know many people don't even
35:28understand how to do well I would say it kind of started when I was young that
35:37frustration of going to school and being forced to not wear what I wanted to wear
35:46and the fights that would happen early morning and just the frustration I felt
35:52of growing up in the environment I grew up in and feeling kind of I don't really
35:59relate I don't want to be a part of this I want to move on in my life so the best
36:08exit strategy I could think of and of course my parents would wanted this for
36:15me was to be successful in school and in that strategy I would think that by
36:21me doing well in school getting a degree getting a good job and marrying someone
36:28that may not be in the message but at least we have a good job we have a nice
36:35house and they have a bunch of grandkids they'll be happy not as disappointed in
36:41me and it's kind of funny I had that exit strategy because my life changed a
36:48lot in my teen years once we moved back to Ontario I would say I was starting
36:58about to start high school when we moved back to Ontario and that's always been
37:04my exit strategy I remember talking with my parents I'm gonna move out for school
37:09and I already planned it out I was personally if we stayed in Alberta I
37:15was gonna go to this school called U of A University of Alberta I planned on
37:21living in a dorm and then when I met friends move in with friends but I mean
37:28we ended up moving here in Ontario and I was telling my mom that I want to move
37:34west for school at one point I told her I wanted to go to Toronto for school and
37:41that was actually a plan and I remember around your 11th grade year 12th grade
37:48year before you apply to schools you have to take specific courses and I
37:53remember I was taking specific courses for a program in that school hoping to
37:57get accepted in in Toronto but many things changed I was saying or part of
38:04the reason why all of us can collectively stopped going to church was
38:09my dad had an accident we were still going consistently before his accident
38:15he got into a car wreck which was really bad and still now he's on medical leave
38:22he won't be going back to work anytime soon that I can think of and this was
38:26about two almost three years ago and I remember when it happened kind of being
38:35a tragic event that changed us and there wasn't really much leeway of what I
38:43could do now when it came to leaving away for school because going to school
38:51was expensive and who was gonna fund it my parents I had to start working myself
38:57again I had to start saving up and then it kind of came to a point towards the
39:06end of my teen years me kind of realizing it's probably best to stay
39:11home and I would say by the time we had stopped going to church my dad because
39:18he is ill has turned a little bit more lenient on me I remember there was a
39:24little bit of fights but it kind of came to the point as I got older 16 17 18 my
39:32dad said I'll just let her be so I am able now to do a little bit of whatever
39:40I want not really not really under the roof but in a sense of my childhood of
39:47what I've been restricted on I can do my hair whatever I want if I don't if I
39:52want to dye my hair pink although my hair pink I know that was a big thing
39:56now you can do color your hair I won't dye my hair pink but if I wanted to I
40:03could wear makeup more but I've kind of always have just some it's kind of funny
40:11I've seen these things online of what guys think what know what makeup looks
40:16like but girls are actually wearing lots of makeup kind of that thing and I could
40:23get my nails then now that I'm older because I have my own money I have a car
40:28I'll just drive to the nail salon you can't stop me so so it's different
40:37things like that that kind of changed the trajectory of my journey kind of
40:46leaving I would say in a sense that when I look back to when I was a kid I view
40:53it as I was in it but not really in it because I just lived a completely non
41:01like cult conventional life I live so outside of it and there's so many things
41:07that I could think of as a kid that I did that isn't really allowed especially
41:13as a girl as a woman I can think about me going into school sports and that's
41:21really nothing you do as a girl you kind of learn to be at home with mom and
41:27about how to be a good wife but I would say yeah some of those values were
41:33instilled but my parents were so focused in school and education that when it
41:39came to extracurriculars they're like oh oh well you know you're doing good in
41:43school sure join an extracurricular well that's very good that you have your
41:48independence and I'm sorry to hear about your father that you know for people who
41:53are in a divine healing cult which this was it's one of the things that shakes
41:58everybody's face because when something bad happens they have I was had this
42:04conversation recently with another person in an interview but it's almost
42:07like they have this rabbit's foot God as long as you have the message God and you
42:12can rub the rabbit's foot you get the good luck that nothing is going to
42:16happen to you whether it's an accident or health issues etc and part of my
42:22journey coming out I had a family member that got critically ill almost
42:27died in fact it's a miracle that he is alive but the way that it happened and
42:33the severity and the aftermath the con the consequences of going through this
42:39this very horrific tragedy made me realize that there was no rabbit's foot
42:45God there are people who are in this message they have accidents they get
42:49sick they they have cancers many people who have these things they claim that
42:54they're healed from them and then they die while they're still claiming to be
42:58healed from them so that was towards the end you know right before I left I
43:03started just really thinking about the religion itself what it was and how wrong
43:09it was that we tried to keep up this appearance that we believe these things
43:14when they and in fact they weren't true did you ever did that cross your mind at
43:20all whenever your father started going through what what he went through yeah
43:25just I kind of remembered first few months of a my dad saying things like oh
43:33I'll be okay I'll be back to normal very soon I will go to work very soon I'll be
43:40able to drive again very soon but as time went on he's gotten much worse the
43:50results from the doctors did not look too good and it looks like he will need
43:57a lot of intensive care for I don't know how long or if we'll ever be healed or
44:07back to normal but I remember looking back at those days because just seeing
44:13that just drastic change of from who he was before to now it's just shocking it
44:20was it was a very shocking moment in feeling and I did believe what he said
44:26because he seemed very optimistic I didn't really think of it as him saying
44:30that I'm gonna be rapidly healed he kind of gave a timeline of oh by like
44:35December I'll be walking again it's fine but then as time went on I kind of
44:41accepted that this is kind of the new journey and course of action that we're
44:49in where I know in the church rapid healing is like a main part of it it's
44:58the main part of that oh God will heal you just pray just believe but in a way
45:04kind of how I knew my thinking was differently although this was a tough
45:10event for a family in a way I was like maybe this is just story that was meant
45:16to happen if I was going to go back to before the apps accident and if I were
45:22to known that this was going to happen I wasn't gonna believe it I was gonna
45:27think that this is crazy no way that this would happen to my dad but that
45:35this was kind of a thing that just changed our life and this is the way our
45:41story is supposed to go that's what I kind of realized that my thinking was a
45:47lot different I would say right before the big event that came to this
45:56development that just kind of realizing over when I'm older that no I don't
46:01really believe these things or I ever believe these things was a few months
46:09before his accident my dad asked the younger three of us so I had I'm the
46:16second oldest and I have a sister below me and a younger brother and I remember
46:23him asking us who wants to be baptized and I remember saying no right away I
46:29just didn't feel ready and I remember kind of this pressure coming like you
46:34have to do this you need to and I just remember like it caused like a kind of
46:41like a fight between me and my parents like no I don't want to do this I was
46:48kind of kicking and screaming like no I don't like I can't I can't because I
46:53just felt it in my heart that I couldn't do it I just didn't believe these things
46:59I just didn't feel in my heart that me getting baptized in this church was the
47:06right thing and of course my siblings did it because they're like what's wrong
47:12with it this is just kind of what we know I would say out of the four of us
47:19like I would say mainly my younger brother still listens to sermons still
47:26is kind of indoctrinated in it but we all kind of grew up the same way we're
47:32kind of more I don't know how to describe it like out the church like no
47:39more things about the world but I just remember just not feeling ready and not
47:46feeling that it was right and that it was just something laying in my heart
47:51that it wasn't and that was the decision I made and I feel like when it comes
47:57kind of with the divine feeling and the divine healing is that I do believe that
48:07God can heal God can create miracles God can help you out of any troubles that
48:15you're in in your life but it's not like a poof of a magic wand like snap of your
48:20fingers it's gonna happen it also I also do believe that maybe it's meant to be
48:26because I remember the morning before my dad got into his wreck he dropped me
48:34off to a volunteer assignment that I had and I just remember having this like
48:42daunting feeling in my heart that something wrong was gonna happen I
48:47don't know how to kind of explain it or what that really means I've talked to my
48:56uncle about it kind of for his perspective because he doesn't really go
49:00to our church and he said maybe it's just like divine intervention
49:07or sometimes it's your conscious I don't know it's just that I had that feeling
49:16kind of in my heart that something was gonna happen and it did and now kind of
49:24understanding that I had that feeling I can see situations differently that
49:30sometimes these things are meant to be sometimes this is God's story to write
49:36and maybe your story is that you're gonna have to go through this tough time
49:41of recovering from an illness for an injury and sometimes your story ends
49:53with you of this illness but you never know and that's kind of where I am with
50:00kind of the radical healing kind of points yeah I'll never forget that
50:06feeling whenever we first started attending a church that wasn't a message
50:11called church trying to wrap my head around that because I was indoctrinated
50:15for 37 years to think that we had the power to change the course of history
50:21and then watching people get sick into in a church that wasn't a divine healing
50:28culture that was that was the way that it was that was the response from the
50:34pastor this is the way this is happening this is meant to be we want to pray for
50:39you God can heal you you know God heals but right now this is God's plan that
50:44that this is what the family's going through and I remember thinking you know
50:50you're indoctrinated to think he's a hypocrite for saying this and he's just
50:54simply stating the facts you know this is this is what's happening to you and
50:57it was more of a rally cry to bring all of the community of the church together
51:02to help the person to help the family and I just remember thinking how
51:07different that was because in the same scenario I've been in cult churches
51:11where if the person had it there was no rally cry for help they were just kind
51:17of on their own and if they continued to have it it meant they did not have
51:21faith to heal themselves and so people started looking at them differently and
51:25so now you've got a cult who has isolated themselves from society and
51:30then you've got a person in the cult who's further isolated and I started
51:34seeing how all of this was just so wrong you know but fortunately for you you saw
51:39it before leaving I saw it long after leaving if you could give some advice to
51:44people who have not yet made their strategy to exit there are a lot of
51:50people who have contacted me who some of them still living with their parents
51:54they want to make their escape what advice would you give to somebody who's
51:59planning their escape I feel like for me and how I grew up I think it's just I I
52:09have very thick skin and just having strength is just your biggest like
52:17advice and your biggest help because it can be it can be hard it can be hard
52:23leaving a community that you were a part of and going out to the world it's like
52:29us releasing a five-year-old into the world they haven't really lived life yet
52:34they still need to be raised by their kids be raised by their parents they
52:39still need to have that nurturing and if that kind of makes sense that analogy
52:46just like being released to the world cold turkey not really knowing what's
52:52next and I'd say just having strength there were many times throughout my
52:59childhood where I felt the sense of like I just can't do this I just want to
53:06run away frustration pain and just not wanting to live like this but sometimes
53:13it's okay to put your foot down and say and now just it's not really the life I
53:20want to live and it's not necessarily being selfish it's kind of just like
53:25sticking up for yourself and just realizing that their values may not
53:30align with yours and maybe that's just like the story that God is giving you
53:37that he's giving you this environment for you to break through and just figure
53:44out who you are and be yourself even though I look back at my childhood and I
53:53have those thoughts sometimes like why was I born in this family or I wish for
53:58something else I feel like it was meant to be because now that I'm out and now
54:06that I am getting ready to be on my own path as an adult and start my own family
54:16and live kind of a life different from that that experience kind of gives you
54:23kind of the strength to navigate the world and it is gonna be hard you're
54:27gonna ruffle some feathers you're gonna have tough relationships I'd say with my
54:32parents although I still live with them but soon fingers crossed soon and
54:41throughout my second or third year of post-secondary I can move out but it can
54:50be hard it can be hard having to stick under the same roof and conflict you
54:57butt heads and I butt heads with my parents and it just kind of comes with
55:02that it kind of comes with living under the roof and just under also
55:06understanding that it's kind of a part of life living under the same roof with
55:10your parents just you start having your own ideas of how you want to raise your
55:16family and how you want to live their life and it may not a hundred percent
55:20align with your parents as ideas I feel like everyone goes through that whether
55:25you're living in a cult whether you are religious or not religious and I've had
55:32friends who are Muslim who feel the same way it's kind of a lot along with just
55:40growing up and realizing what you want how you want to live your life and
55:46figuring out who you are I think that's good advice it's part of the journey to
55:52becoming an adult in most families but in the cult they kind of suppress that
55:56you don't you don't really have that growth and it's unhealthy for a family
56:00not to have conflict because you don't learn how to properly handle conflicts
56:05if you never have a conflict right so I think that's very good advice but thank
56:10you so much for doing this with us today I'm sure you're going to help a
56:14lot of people become encouraged by hearing your story yeah thank you for
56:19having me and I hope that people who listen to this realize that having
56:26strength is important and that sometimes when you leave you may not have the best
56:32relationship with your family afterwards and I'm still working through that but
56:38time will tell and I really hope that anyone that's leaving and is going
56:44through conflict with their families that they're able to get through that
56:48and just pray just pray and do a lot of just like self work in yourself and how
56:55to approach these conversations with them because it can be yep going through
57:00those conversations of why you don't believe in what they believe they will
57:04they have lots of defenses it gets it gets really complicated yes it does well
57:13if you've enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on
57:16the web you can find us at William dash Branham org for an overview of the
57:21historical research of William Branham and the healing revivals read preacher
57:25behind the white hoods a critical examination of William Branham and his
57:29message available on Amazon Kindle and audible
58:29you