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00:00:00They say, the harder the work, the greater the reward.
00:00:18This is our life's work.
00:00:21Good morning.
00:00:25It is 9-12, Wednesday, March 23rd.
00:00:28This is the TDN Writer's Room, presented by Keeneland.
00:00:31My name is Joe Bianca.
00:00:32I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News, and I want to congratulate John
00:00:35for winning the three-year-old Derby Fantasy Contest, because Bill said last week he had
00:00:39a better chance to win that than Richmond had of beating Iowa, and they did it.
00:00:44No.
00:00:45Get, play the videotape.
00:00:46Hi, I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:49I did not say that.
00:00:50I said of them winning the NCAA Tournament, a big difference.
00:00:57Bill Finley, you are a lightning rod, as usual, and I'm using that term almost literally
00:01:02based on some of the responses that we got for a couple of articles you wrote that we'll
00:01:06talk about a little bit later, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
00:01:09Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable, and I can't wait to talk about the most shocking
00:01:16article that Bill Finley has written in, apparently, his career, and that is about Jorge Navarro.
00:01:22That's saying a lot, too.
00:01:24The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:01:26Mark your calendars for the April Horses of Racing Age sale, which will be after the races
00:01:30on closing day of the Spring Meet, Friday, April 29th.
00:01:34Entry deadline for the print catalog is April 1st.
00:01:37Approved supplements will be accepted until sale date.
00:01:39Looking forward to that Spring Meet countdown.
00:01:42Now it's over two weeks away.
00:01:44Can't wait to see it.
00:01:45Can't wait to see all the babies out on the track.
00:01:46Can't wait to see the spring colors at Keeneland, and can't wait to be there with you guys also.
00:01:52We finally got maybe, hopefully, kind of, sort of, a conclusion to the Bob Baffert and
00:01:57Kentucky Horses Racing Commission saga earlier this week.
00:02:01The Franklin County Administrative Law Judge, Judge Thomas Wingate, denied Baffert's attempt
00:02:09to get a stay, and also Ramirez-Adan's attempt to get a stay of their penalties and their
00:02:13suspensions from the Medina Spirit case.
00:02:16He said that they have until April 4th to try to appeal to an appeals court judge.
00:02:23If that doesn't happen, or if the appeal is denied, Bob Baffert will be suspended for
00:02:2790 days, starting April 4th, and it will go through about July 3rd.
00:02:34He's going to miss Triple Crown season if that happens, but he'll be back plenty of
00:02:37time for Saratoga and Del Mar and the Breeders' Cup, so I think he'll be just about all right,
00:02:42but what do you guys think?
00:02:45Yeah, Joe, this was a big deal, and I continue to be surprised by this, that he's not been
00:02:50able to get a stay of the suspension, but the court upheld the Kentucky Racing Commission.
00:02:55Now there are, he's now going to go to the next level of court, but, and again, you have
00:03:00to always preface by saying this, we're not lawyers, we don't really understand all the
00:03:03nuances of this, but it would be hard to believe that this next court is going to overrule
00:03:08the Judge Wingate, but this is big for a number of reasons.
00:03:12Not only what you said, it may finally come to a conclusion, at least the Kentucky Horse
00:03:17Racing Commission suspension, remember, we still have the Churchill ban to deal with,
00:03:22but the reason why this is so big to me is that because in all other cases where a guy
00:03:29gets suspended, we turn the barn over to our assistant, we lay on our couch and call in
00:03:36on the phone every morning and say, glowworm for furlongs.
00:03:40In California, for a 90 day suspension, you cannot do that.
00:03:44The barn has to be dispersed, you cannot put the horses under the name of an assistant
00:03:50or any employees that work for you, or for, under the name of a relative.
00:03:54So presumably one of two things would have to happen, or maybe a combination of both.
00:03:59A new trainer, somebody would have to come in and totally take over the operation, or
00:04:04every owner would have to think for themselves and go and put the horses into someone else's
00:04:09barn.
00:04:10Now, maybe he'll win on appeal, but, you know, Baffert has been losing every single
00:04:16round of this lately and losing big time.
00:04:19You know, I guess maybe we want to talk about this more, maybe John has an opinion on this.
00:04:23Is it time for him to just, you know, throw in the towel here?
00:04:27You would think that at some point in time, you would say, with all the legal fees and
00:04:32all of the issues that are going on, and the fact that he's just not winning in any of
00:04:37these courts, whether it's irrespective of what level, that at some point you throw in
00:04:43the towel.
00:04:44But, you know, how do you make that decision?
00:04:45Because Baffert was basically, and his attorneys were basically saying that by having to be
00:04:52under this suspension, it was going to cause irreparable harm and monetary issues with
00:05:00regard to his business, that he would have to, as Bill said, pack up his shit and move
00:05:07on, basically, and the horses would have to be dispersed.
00:05:09And, you know, so far, to my surprise, you know, Baffert's owners have been very loyal.
00:05:15There have been very few defections, and of those, there haven't been the high profile
00:05:20people that we originally thought, that I originally thought, were going to be, you
00:05:24know, leaving the Baffert barn.
00:05:26But you'd have to think that with this court mandate now, or excuse me, with this court
00:05:31decision based on the suspension, that, you know, if there is a disbursement that maybe
00:05:38some of these owners don't return, that is to be seen.
00:05:41I would have to think that if I had a horse personally, if I had a horse that was a derby
00:05:46contender and I was looking at the way that things were playing out, at some point in
00:05:51time I'd have to say to myself and to my family, who I report to, for the best of this horse,
00:05:58we need to move it to a place where the horse is going to be able to compete at the highest
00:06:03level at the derby and at the Belmont and, you know, at the Naira tracks and the Churchill
00:06:07Downs family tracks.
00:06:09So at some point in time, I think you have to, you know, look at it from the owner's
00:06:14standpoint and say, enough is enough.
00:06:16I can see the rutting on the wall.
00:06:17I need to move over.
00:06:19And I can come back if, you know, if things play out differently, if I want to support
00:06:23my trainer.
00:06:24And then from Bob Baffert's standpoint, I think you have to say, you know, how much
00:06:28more time, energy, et cetera, resources am I going to throw at this before I realize
00:06:34that things are stacked against me now and whether it's because of things that I've done
00:06:40as a trainer and or, you know, situations with the powers that be and also the flavor
00:06:46of the way the industry is going right now, I need to kind of do a better job of reading
00:06:51what's going on and maybe accept the punishment and not happy about it.
00:06:56I'm not going to admit guilt, but maybe I just go ahead and accept it and then come
00:07:00back in a few months and try again.
00:07:04The other thing that I thought was really interesting from the court, and I'm going
00:07:08to TD Thornton did a phenomenal job of in an article.
00:07:11I'm not just saying that because he's on the home team.
00:07:13I actually read the article and actually understood what it was.
00:07:15So obviously it was pretty easy to delineate if I can get it.
00:07:20But the judge came down and actually had a very interesting ruling, I thought.
00:07:25And that is, he said, you know, Bob Baffert's argument was that, you know, my horses are
00:07:31poised for the Kentucky Derby and the Triple Crown, and I am going to lose my reputation
00:07:37and my business if my horses aren't able to run in the in this year's big races.
00:07:43And the court came out and said, basically, your athletes have a finite period of of
00:07:50earning money.
00:07:51But you're a trainer and a trainer is basically a coach or a CEO.
00:07:55And as such, every year you get a new crop of athletes that come in.
00:07:59So you as the coach slash CEO don't have a shelf life.
00:08:04Your horses, your athletes have a shelf life.
00:08:06And I thought that was a very interesting distinction that the court made and allowed
00:08:12me to kind of think about it, you know, in a broader sense.
00:08:15And I agree with that sentiment that, you know, that the trainers are the are the above
00:08:20the athletes and the athletes come and go.
00:08:23They get claimed.
00:08:24They get hurt.
00:08:25The new ones come in.
00:08:26You go to sales, you know, you restock the group and you move forward.
00:08:30But I thought from a legal standpoint, that was really intriguing to me.
00:08:33Yeah, no, I wanted to read that quote, too.
00:08:36And just, you know, for this whole discussion, if we could just have like an arrow that's
00:08:39pointing to me that says not a lawyer, like that'd be great.
00:08:43We always have to have that disclaimer.
00:08:45So the judge dismissed the argument that first of all, that stays are automatically granted.
00:08:49Like they tried to make that argument that like it's usually a formality that the stay
00:08:53of the suspension is granted.
00:08:55He said that requests should be evaluated on a case by case basis, which is precedent
00:09:00isn't law.
00:09:01And he said economic harm is not irreparable harm, which was the key.
00:09:05And yeah, Bob Baffert will lose some income for a few months, but he won't be irreparably
00:09:10damaged by that.
00:09:11And he has plenty of time to recoup the loss.
00:09:13And here's the money quote that John was referring to.
00:09:16Does athletes have a finite period of eligibility or peak performance?
00:09:20However, Baffert is not an athlete.
00:09:22He is a trainer, much more akin to a coach.
00:09:24Unlike certain athletes whose careers are subject to a small window of eligibility or
00:09:28period of peak performance, Baffert's career has spanned decades and will continue following
00:09:33this brief suspension.
00:09:34In fact, Baffert has expressed his interest and intent to continue in his chosen profession.
00:09:40The horses under Baffert's care, the athletes do possess a finite window of eligibility
00:09:44and peak performance.
00:09:45However, those horses can still race.
00:09:47Any harm that Baffert will suffer from not participating in the 2022 Triple Crown or
00:09:52other races during his period of suspension will result in only monetary loss.
00:09:56That made total sense to me as, again, not a lawyer.
00:10:00And according to TD, Wingate's court has a reputation for standing up to state agencies
00:10:05like the KHRC.
00:10:06So they can't claim yet again that they got an unfair shake.
00:10:09So basically, they have 12 days, including today, to seek relief with the Kentucky Court
00:10:15of Appeals, which they haven't done as of recording, but they probably will.
00:10:17They're probably doing it right now as I'm speaking.
00:10:19And if that's unsuccessful, the suspension is going to be in April 4th, lasts until July
00:10:243rd, like I said.
00:10:25So he's going to miss the Triple Crown.
00:10:26He'll be back in plenty of time for the big summer and fall races.
00:10:29And life will go on.
00:10:31Bob Baffert will still win plenty of big races until the day he stops training, which made
00:10:36the argument that a three-month suspension would be some kind of death blow to his career
00:10:40such a joke this whole time.
00:10:41And I'm glad the judge didn't fall for it.
00:10:44Yeah, Joe, that's one thing I totally agree with you on.
00:10:47And you understand why the lawyers say this, but when Bob Baffert's standing in the winner
00:10:52circle for the 2027 Derby, and boy, how awkward is that going to be when he has to Bill Carstensian
00:10:58has to give him the trophy for that?
00:11:00Because that's going to happen.
00:11:01You know, as long as he continues to produce like he does, this will cause damage in the
00:11:05short term.
00:11:06There's no doubt about it already has and will cause quite a bit of damage.
00:11:09I mean, you know, even though he didn't lose a lot of horses, he lost life is good over
00:11:13this.
00:11:14So, you know, he's the best horse in the country right now.
00:11:16But yeah, you know, Bob Baffert is going to be fine.
00:11:19So, you know, I understand what they say, but I'm getting a little tired of hearing
00:11:22that.
00:11:23This is going to ruin this man's career.
00:11:24How can you do it?
00:11:25You know, Bob Baffert, when this is the 90 days are up, like you said, Saratoga, Del
00:11:29Mar, etc.
00:11:30And then, you know, presumably he'll miss the 22 and 23 Kentucky Derbys, and he's going
00:11:34to have five horses in the 2024 Kentucky Derby because that's who he is, Baffert.
00:11:38And he's got, you know, he's getting up in years, but he's not, you know, at a point
00:11:42where anybody's turning away from him or anything like that.
00:11:45He's still very much in demand.
00:11:47Bob is going to be fine.
00:11:48I think the other the other interesting takeaway was at the very end of the summary by Judge
00:11:56Wingate, and it talked about the fact that I'm going to quote the KHRC states that Baffert's
00:12:01pattern of medication positive is off the charts and the KHRC relevant rule only contemplates
00:12:07penalties for trainers with up to three prior medication positives in the past 365 days.
00:12:13Given the amount of medication positives, plaintiffs do not present a likelihood of
00:12:19success on the merits.
00:12:21So I thought that was very interesting that Judge Wingate actually put into the wording
00:12:26of his of his review that there was a cumulative effect of all of these past positive medication
00:12:37positives and that that's why the KHRC had the ability to do this.
00:12:42So I know people are all up in arms about, well, whether or not Medina Spirit, you know,
00:12:47was really enhanced.
00:12:49His performance was enhanced because of what happened.
00:12:52But you know, we've always said that it's not it's not a matter of that race.
00:12:56I mean, yeah, that was obviously the highest profile race we have in the industry.
00:12:59But it's all these other cumulative issues that warranted, you know, this situation.
00:13:05So to me, when Bob Baffert comes in and his attorneys come in and say that this is going
00:13:10to ruin my career, the suspension is going to ruin my career, that's not that's not true.
00:13:16What's hurting your career is these cumulative positives that are now amassed.
00:13:23And it's all these little kind of one offs.
00:13:24It's kind of, you know, a death by paper cut.
00:13:27It's happened a bunch of times.
00:13:28And that's why you're in the situation you are right now.
00:13:31It's not about whether Medina Spirit, in my opinion, whether or not Medina Spirit had
00:13:35ass cream or was injected.
00:13:38It's all these other issues that, you know, little issues that have built up over the
00:13:41years.
00:13:42And the court actually endorsed that same sentiment.
00:13:45Right.
00:13:47And that's the whole thing is that this is what we talked about when the Medina Spirit
00:13:50controversies first started, is that, you know, the outrage isn't necessarily about
00:13:53Medina Spirit and this one drug.
00:13:56It's about the totality of Bob Baffert's record and the fact that he keeps putting himself
00:14:00in these positions.
00:14:01And John, you know, said before, you know, maybe he can just take a step back and say,
00:14:05you know, I screwed up.
00:14:06I'll take the 90 days.
00:14:07I don't think that's going to happen.
00:14:08I don't think that's ever going to happen with Bob Baffert.
00:14:11And there was a there was a brief moment in time, if you remember, after after the
00:14:16charlatan and the Kameen positives where Bob Baffert basically said, you know, I'm going
00:14:22to try to do a better job.
00:14:23I'm going to hire maybe an ombudsman for my for my stable to try to try to keep things
00:14:29in order.
00:14:30And then what happened a couple of months later, Medina Spirit fails a drug test in
00:14:33the biggest race in the world.
00:14:35So I don't know why he had that brief moment of clarity that some things are his fault
00:14:40and he had some some some kind of, you know, housekeeping to do.
00:14:45But, you know, that turned into cancel culture and I'm being railroaded and it's a witch
00:14:49hunt and blah, blah, blah.
00:14:51So but like I said, this judge supposedly is usually pretty sympathetic to the trainers
00:14:55and even he shut them down.
00:14:56Reminds me of like the election fraud when they kept going to these Trump appointed judges
00:15:00and they kept saying, no, there's no fraud.
00:15:02And that still wasn't enough.
00:15:03So, you know, it's like I said, life will go on if Bob Baffert has to serve this 90
00:15:07day suspension.
00:15:08He'll be he'll resume training again and win plenty of big races.
00:15:12I don't think anybody needs to shed any tears for him, but hopefully hopefully at least
00:15:16this this kind of this long legal, you know, mumbo jumbo process is over.
00:15:22But we'll see.
00:15:23And just I know we've been getting some tweets and everything like that.
00:15:26So so please understand we are not transferring.
00:15:28Stay on our good side to Bob Baffert.
00:15:30Just enough.
00:15:32Put that to rest versus not going there.
00:15:35I'm trying to get a future bet down first.
00:15:38We'll see.
00:15:39We'll see where hands have gone.
00:15:40But that's that's my intention.
00:15:43Are we going to do that?
00:15:44Horse is a Canadian bred, by the way, stay on our good side.
00:15:46Are we going to do a road show?
00:15:48The Queen's going for the Queen's play?
00:15:51Yeah, I'm sorry.
00:15:53Well, we'll have to we'll have to work on that.
00:15:55Well, I know I know we're pivoting, you know, away from the Bob Baffert.
00:15:58I think we're all done with that with that with that story at this point.
00:16:01Yeah, let's let's see if we can do that.
00:16:03I know that probably the powers that be, the TDM would send us up to Canada.
00:16:08In Thanksgiving, because it's probably really inexpensive to go up there,
00:16:11you know, during during, you know, the cold weather months.
00:16:13But I think maybe we should push for the Queen's play.
00:16:16There you go.
00:16:17After that, we'll go to the we'll just keep going further and further north.
00:16:19We're like the Siberian Derby next.
00:16:22It's Arctica Derby.
00:16:23You can see Russia from there.
00:16:26The TDM Writers Room was brought to you by Keeneland.
00:16:28It was announced this week that tickets for the 2022 Breeders Cup
00:16:31World Championships cannot wait.
00:16:33Posted at Keeneland will go on sale Monday, May 9th.
00:16:37So be the third year that the meet is hosted at Keeneland.
00:16:40Really looking forward to it.
00:16:41It was there in 2015.
00:16:42We all remember the American Pharaoh Tour de Force and the Breeders Cup Classic.
00:16:45And then two years ago, it's kind of the COVID affected year.
00:16:48Still a great, great event and authentic winning the Breeders Cup Classic.
00:16:52You can learn more about purchasing tickets at BreedersCup.com slash 2022.
00:16:57Also, one last reminder that the entry deadline for the print catalog
00:17:00for the Keeneland April Horses of Racing Age sale is April 1st.
00:17:04That's next Friday.
00:17:05Get those entries in.
00:17:06The sale will be held on closing day, Friday, April 29th.
00:17:09After the races have concluded, Keeneland sales is a proven record
00:17:12of success on the racetrack, and the April sale is no exception.
00:17:15Notable recent graduates of the April sale include grade one winner
00:17:18and millionaire and now stallion, Higher Power.
00:17:21We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:17:28Keeneland Racecourse is the most beautiful racetrack in America, hands down.
00:17:34Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you to the breeding stock sale.
00:17:37Book one. Good to have you back with us.
00:18:04Oh, hi.
00:18:18They're off in the Breeders Cup Classic.
00:18:24Maximum Security proves he's the real deal with a gate to wire
00:18:28win in the Florida Derby. Champion three-year-old.
00:18:31Maximum Security has won the TBG.com Haskell Invitational.
00:18:37Eleven triple digit buyers.
00:18:39Maximum Security, he smoked them in the Cigar Mile.
00:18:43Grade one winning four-year-old.
00:18:45Maximum Security takes them all the way in the TBG Pacific Classic.
00:18:49Secure your mare's future.
00:18:52Maximum Security.
00:18:54The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:18:56The stallions at Ashford Stud are hot on the derby trail with Forbidden Kingdom,
00:19:00Son of American Pharaoh, and the winner of the Grade 2 San Vicente
00:19:03and Grade 2 San Felipe Stakes.
00:19:05Missed a workout last week because of a little bit of a temperature,
00:19:07but I think he's still going to be able to make the Santa Anita Derby.
00:19:09Morello was an undefeated son of Classic Empire.
00:19:12I actually looked at the sheet numbers and Morello was right up there.
00:19:15Morello was like top two or three among the three-year-old Colts
00:19:19right now with his sheet numbers.
00:19:21So looking forward to seeing him run next.
00:19:22We'll see in the Wood Memorial potentially.
00:19:24We also had, obviously, Classic Causeway by the late Giants Causeway
00:19:28winning the Tampa Bay Derby in the Sam Davis and Grade 2 winner,
00:19:31a Remsen winner, Mo Donical, who's the son of Uncle Mo.
00:19:35And I know John's got a few mares that are in full or producing
00:19:38fulls by Ashford Stallions, no?
00:19:41Yeah, both, Joe.
00:19:42Thanks so much.
00:19:42Yep.
00:19:43Our Grade 2 winning mare, Art of Olmos, just was pronounced in full
00:19:48Uncle Mo on a full share with, you know, with our friends at Coolmore.
00:19:51So we're very excited about that.
00:19:52We had a nice American Pharaoh Colt two weeks ago and another one of our mares
00:19:57just had a Justify filly that we're very excited about.
00:20:00And I don't usually do this, but Joe, we actually are.
00:20:04When I went to Ireland this year and brought back some racehorses,
00:20:08I partnered up with Niall Brendan on a Justify filly, actually,
00:20:11that is going to be selling at the April OBS sale.
00:20:13It's a Justify out of the mare, Costa del Sol.
00:20:17And she will be breezing at the OBS April sale and selling at the OBS April sale.
00:20:23And I'm very, very excited to have a part of a Justify.
00:20:25It's the right year to have Justify.
00:20:27Hell yeah.
00:20:27And, you know, just to mention that OBS April catalog came out yesterday or two
00:20:32days ago, and we also got some notes from the OBS March sale last week relative
00:20:36to Coolmore, our American Pharaoh had a filly sell for $1 million.
00:20:40She was the most expensive filly of the sale going to Donato Lanny.
00:20:43And First Crop Sire Mendelsohn, who's definitely getting a lot of buzz
00:20:47right now, had four six-figure horses during the second session, including
00:20:50a $400,000 filly selling to Jonathan Thomas.
00:20:53Bill actually did a story over the weekend talking to some of the consignors
00:20:57and buyers down at Ocala, and Mendelsohn was a pretty popular pick to be the
00:21:02first, the leading First Crop Sire.
00:21:04So definitely got to keep an eye on him as well as the Justifies.
00:21:08So there was a story last week reported in the TDN by our own Bill Finley
00:21:11that Jorge Navarro is going to jail.
00:21:14He got a little bit of a delay because I think he needed eye surgery before he
00:21:17had to report to the low security facility that he's going to be spending
00:21:21the next five years or thereabouts in.
00:21:24I don't think there could be anybody possibly in the racing world that had
00:21:28any sympathy still for Jorge Navarro or was a Jorge Navarro stan, as they say.
00:21:33But I think we were proven wrong because Bill got some interesting
00:21:36feedback from his story.
00:21:39Yeah, I sure did.
00:21:40And you know, it's funny, this was kind of just a straightforward story.
00:21:43I mean, it was just reporting that he went to jail.
00:21:46He's in prison in a place in Miami.
00:21:48And, you know, how long he's going to be there for, what it's like, et cetera.
00:21:51And boy, you know, I didn't expect to really get anything.
00:21:55And I want to preface this by saying if if I'm within the next couple of days
00:22:00struck and killed by lightning, you'll know why.
00:22:03OK, because apparently not only did I piss off somebody by the name of Vivian
00:22:07Hernandez, I pissed off God.
00:22:09Yes, I did.
00:22:11Anyway, so bear with us, because this will be worth this can take a little
00:22:14while, but it's worth reading.
00:22:15Dear Mr. Finley, I read your article.
00:22:17And really, I am appalled at it, that a publication like this one would print
00:22:21something like what you wrote really bothers me.
00:22:23I had horses with Jorge Navarro since he started.
00:22:25I have won and lost as everybody in this business.
00:22:28He always treated my horses with great care.
00:22:30And for a fact, I still have old ones retired that were under his care.
00:22:34And they are as healthy as they can be.
00:22:35They over 20 years, they were over 20 years of age that you have so little
00:22:39respect for his family and kids to write all this garbage that you do not know
00:22:43anything about is absolutely disgraceful.
00:22:46I was at the track as an owner, breeder and caretaker for over 40 years.
00:22:49I know a lot of people in this business, big ones that I that are unknown and
00:22:55trust that were unknown.
00:22:56And trust me when I say that not only will I unsubscribe to this publication, I
00:22:59will call each and every person I know to do the same.
00:23:02So the the the rate of clicks on the TDN website goes down by 50 percent.
00:23:07This is obviously the reason to from your writing.
00:23:11I can see that you have never been inside the care of the horses and you don't know
00:23:15anything about it.
00:23:15Or he was a caring person.
00:23:17Yes, a caring person.
00:23:19And if I have read all the articles, right, they only prove the case from
00:23:22conversations that I'm sure you and all of us have had a time in our lives that
00:23:26are really not even true.
00:23:27And John, I'll talk about all the time about all the horses we draw.
00:23:30And we just make it up because it's funny.
00:23:32Yeah, he declared himself guilty because of the courts in this country which are
00:23:37screwed up. And as you know, one to give him 20 years for what?
00:23:40What did they prove?
00:23:41Now, this is my favorite part, but I am not worried about you because I know that
00:23:44God will take care of you.
00:23:46And when he does, God help you for doing what you have done.
00:23:49What about Bob Baffert and company?
00:23:52I never saw you writing these horrible things about him.
00:23:54And he has killed many, many horses.
00:23:56Or is it that you are against Latinos or jealous of what Jorge did?
00:23:59Whatever it is, I am sure God will make sure you are taken care of.
00:24:03Vivian Hernandez, Johnny, using that pen name again, Vivian Hernandez.
00:24:07I thought that was a relative of yours.
00:24:08And listen, Bill, there are a lot of articles and a lot of times that being on
00:24:13the show with you where I feel like that you're so off the rails that you should be
00:24:17struck by lightning. This was not one of them.
00:24:19This was not a case where I would say, boy, that Bill Finley, he really, really went
00:24:24out on a limb and he's just so screwed up.
00:24:26He's way off. I can't.
00:24:28I mean, it blew my mind, first of all, that somebody would would actually, in all
00:24:33honesty, believe that Jorge Navarro, you know, was good to his horses, you know,
00:24:39and that was number one.
00:24:40Number two was that, you know, that you were singling out this guy, you were singling
00:24:44out, you were looking to for a reason to just screw over his reputation, his impeccable
00:24:50reputation as as a trainer and that you are so racist that you would do this.
00:24:55And how dare you?
00:24:57But the funniest thing out of the article that I think me personally, I took away was
00:25:02funny as you know, I was at the track as an owner, breeder and caretaker for 40 years.
00:25:06And I know a lot of people in this business, big ones, you know, and and that
00:25:10I'm going to and I'm going to unsubscribe this publication and call each one of them
00:25:15and have them unsubscribed.
00:25:17Well, listen, Vivian Hernandez, I've also been in the business for 40 years as as an
00:25:21owner. And I've been on the barns and I've worked with with a number of trainers.
00:25:24And I can tell you that you are batshit crazy if you think this guy was good to his
00:25:30horses, you know, from Kramer A to X, Y jet.
00:25:34There's no way in God's green earth.
00:25:36And I'll use God, since you brought it up, that this guy is in prison because the court
00:25:40system is screwed up.
00:25:41It's because he admitted on, you know, on record and on file with the FBI, he admitted
00:25:49to taking care of these horses and drugging them.
00:25:53And that is why he is in jail.
00:25:55It's not because of the system.
00:25:56It's not because of that, that God said, oh, well, he's too successful.
00:26:00I need to humble him.
00:26:01There is no higher power in this other than the court system.
00:26:05So please, please call all the people, you know, the big owners, the small owners, and
00:26:10tell them to stop listening to us, because I don't want you as a fan.
00:26:14You are just so out of your mind crazy.
00:26:16And I agree with you on one thing.
00:26:18Bill Finley does need to be knocked down a peg occasionally, but he does not need to be
00:26:22struck. That's what this show is for, is to take Bill gently down a peg every once in a
00:26:26while. No, but like the funniest part is that he pled guilty.
00:26:29It's not like he went on trial, he lost, he pled guilty, he said these things, he said
00:26:34this is what I did to these horses.
00:26:37Yeah, but Joe, come on.
00:26:38He was just kidding around when he said, I pumped this horse full of drugs.
00:26:44I look at my crocs, I'd say the juice man, that's all.
00:26:46Bill was reading that very heartfelt letter.
00:26:49The editor could we just put up the juice man crocs the whole time?
00:26:53That seems to unravel any kind of sympathy that anybody should ever have for Harry
00:26:57Navarro. Forget all that.
00:26:58So this is the in the many years I've been doing this is absolutely the best letter I've
00:27:04ever gotten. It is.
00:27:05And you've gotten some crazy ones for sure.
00:27:08Yeah. Now, Bill, all kidding aside, like, have you gotten other letters to the editor
00:27:14that responses not on Jorge, but just on other articles you've written where you've been
00:27:17like, hey, you know what, maybe maybe I did make a mistake or maybe I should think about
00:27:21this side of it.
00:27:23I mean, some people have like legitimate criticisms, right?
00:27:27Not this lady, but.
00:27:29Yeah, of course. I mean, you listen to that, but it's so far removed from this craziness
00:27:34that, you know, you can't even put them in the in the same sentence or whatnot.
00:27:38But Vivian, if you're watching, keep it up.
00:27:41I mean, I'll get enough.
00:27:43I'd love to hear from you again.
00:27:44This was really.
00:27:45Does she need a green room guest of the week?
00:27:48Consultation. That's the question.
00:27:52Yeah, I mean, the comment section is definitely fun sometimes with that one window.
00:27:56Above and beyond.
00:27:57Yeah, I kind of want to transition out of that.
00:27:59You know, there's no easy transition from that.
00:28:03Also, I just love that she said, like, I've never heard you say anything about Bob Baffert.
00:28:06Never, never watched the show because I am I am sick and tired of talking about Bob
00:28:11Baffert. And I've gotten some some angry comments in the past about things I've said about
00:28:15Baffert. So, you know, definitely tune into the show if you want to see us bash some other
00:28:20trainers because we'll do it. We're not scared of that.
00:28:22Yep. And then and white, white minority, like we're an equal opportunity basher.
00:28:27If somebody is screwing up with with our industry, I don't care what they look like or
00:28:31where they come from. We're going to we're going to call it out.
00:28:33Yeah. Well, although some people some people say that we don't we don't call out the
00:28:37you know, the jockeys enough, which I which I also thought was a star.
00:28:41Well, just wait until the Jason service trial starts, because we're going to have a field
00:28:44day with that. If you think that we're only bashing Latino juicers.
00:28:49Right. Anyway, just moving on from that, I wanted to transition to some good news.
00:28:52Like, I really didn't want to spend any time on the Navarro going to prison thing until
00:28:56Bill got that got that letter and then that it made sense.
00:28:59But there was some good news in the past week or two.
00:29:02There was a story. And this kind of goes to my point that I've made in the past about
00:29:05how, you know, if it bleeds, it leads when the when all the horses were breaking down
00:29:09at Santa Anita front page, Washington Post, NBC, CNN, all
00:29:15this stuff about how the horses were dying and horse racing was such a scourge.
00:29:20There's a tiny story in the Pasadena Star News last week that said that the headline
00:29:25is California and Santa Anita see huge declines in horse deaths following reforms.
00:29:31This is what I was talking about, that the the good you do in that regard is never going
00:29:35to get reported the way the sensationalism of the catastrophic breakdowns
00:29:41did. And I'm not saying that that should not have been reported.
00:29:43That was obviously a major story in 2019.
00:29:46But how about this could be a major story, too, is this horse racing deaths in
00:29:50California have been cut in half in two years and plummeted to the lowest level since
00:29:541990 as a result of reforms implemented after dozens of deaths at Santa Anita racetrack
00:30:00in 2019 from the California Horse Racing Board's annual report on the state of the
00:30:04sport, which was released earlier this month.
00:30:07Seventy two horses died in California during the twenty twenty twenty twenty one season
00:30:11that ended in June. That's down from one hundred forty four deaths from twenty eighteen
00:30:15to nineteen and a far cry from the two hundred seventy eight deaths in twenty eleven and
00:30:20twelve, which is the worst year on record in the past decade.
00:30:23At the same time, the number of horses racing has dropped only seven percent in that two
00:30:27year period. So it's not just that they shut down racing and they had fewer horses
00:30:31racing. It's it's really that they have done the right things.
00:30:35And I got to give a shout out to everybody in California who is taking this on because
00:30:40it was such it was such a horrible place to be in in twenty nineteen to be that the
00:30:44center, the eye of that storm.
00:30:46And it was a firestorm.
00:30:48And, you know, there's just there's so many things that they've done, not only on the
00:30:52racing side, but on the trading side, on the evaluation side.
00:30:55In the C.H.R.B. meeting the other day, they were talking.
00:30:57They were talking about their their accident task force where they're trying to learn
00:31:00more about why horses break down and horses get injured.
00:31:03And they're doing a lot more, a lot more kind of pre-diagnostics, working with UC
00:31:09Davis to try to catch catastrophic injuries before the horses actually break down.
00:31:13So this is something that really should be leading and should be should be part of, you
00:31:18know, the the positive PR push that we never get in racing is this kind of news.
00:31:23What do you guys think? What's your reaction?
00:31:24Yeah. And Joe, this is terrific news.
00:31:26And I do agree. And I understand the media.
00:31:28You know, I'm not saying that condoning the way this has been covered because you
00:31:33write it is unfair.
00:31:35But a couple of things.
00:31:37First of all, this is not just a California story.
00:31:40It's a national story.
00:31:41And if you go to the injury database in 2009, the rate of injuries and the deaths were
00:31:49two per one thousand starters.
00:31:51It's now down to one point four one.
00:31:53Now, you know, is one point four one OK?
00:31:56No, it's not OK because we want to get it down.
00:31:59I mean, we all know that it's never going to be zero.
00:32:01But this leads me to believe that they've made this much progress in this short a time
00:32:05in California.
00:32:06Well, a couple of things. First of all, let's hope that every other racing state is
00:32:09paying attention to what they're doing is going to emulate what they do in California.
00:32:13And it leads to to me the optimism that can we get these numbers down even further?
00:32:19And, you know, it's funny, even in the story in the Pasadena Star News, PETA actually
00:32:24has a fairly nice thing to say about this, which was was pretty shocking in there, you
00:32:29know, kind of commending the Stornick Group because, you know, everybody, you know, it
00:32:33would be also Delmar and Golden Gate as well.
00:32:35But, you know, the Stornick Group in Santa Anita is kind of front and center because
00:32:38that's where all these breakdowns occurred back in 2019.
00:32:41But, you know, great news.
00:32:43Let's keep it up and, you know, let's get keep let's keep getting that number down
00:32:47every single year. Let's have this conversation this time every single year about, hey,
00:32:51the number went down another 20 percent and went down another 15 percent.
00:32:54And, you know, maybe that will happen.
00:32:56Well, it looks like that the pendulum is swinging in the positive direction and it took a
00:33:00lot to get it there to get it moving in the right direction.
00:33:04But certainly with the leadership of the Stornick Group and some of the other major
00:33:08racetracks that are actually investing money into the race surfaces, not only to make
00:33:14them safer, you know, the dirt track safer, but, you know, Gulfstream is going to tear
00:33:20up their turf course again this summer.
00:33:23And it's like the second time in three years because they just feel like that it's
00:33:26not where they want it.
00:33:28And they don't have to.
00:33:29I mean, people go to Florida during the winter time to race there because of the
00:33:32weather. And they really don't have to put a dime into the surface if they didn't
00:33:36want to. So they're definitely committed to making it a safer track.
00:33:41They implemented, you know, a multimillion dollar surface by putting a third racetrack
00:33:46there. Belmont's talking about putting in an all weather track.
00:33:50You know, the sales companies collectively got together, the ones that are selling
00:33:55two-year-olds and changed the medication rules to make them stricter.
00:33:59So that way, horses that are two-year-olds that are breezing at the under-tax show have
00:34:03a much more stringent medication protocol that they have to follow.
00:34:07And guys, you know, when was the last time we watched a really big race day on TV and
00:34:12had a mishap or had a breakdown?
00:34:15And when we first started the show, I remember very distinctly we had the conversation
00:34:19of, God, I just hope all these horses finish because it's such a black eye every time a
00:34:23horse breaks down on national television.
00:34:26And knock wood, that hasn't happened in a really long time.
00:34:28And I think that speaks highly about the racetracks themselves, the management, the
00:34:33racetrack, you know, the actual physical racetrack itself, and also the pre-race
00:34:38protocols that you have to go through in order to get horses to run.
00:34:42And again, I know from running in some of these bigger races, it is really a good
00:34:48process you have to go through, jump through a lot of hoops to get horses to run in the
00:34:52Kentucky Derby and or the Breeders' Cup.
00:34:55I mean, literally we have for the Breeders' Cup races, we had a vet, a different vet look
00:34:59at our entries every single day for six days in a row.
00:35:03You had like literally half a dozen different vets.
00:35:05So it wasn't just like one person looking at the horse saying, yeah, I think you can
00:35:08live with it. I mean, there were six different eyeballs, sets of eyeballs that were on
00:35:12these horses. So I think a combination of all of those things have led to this positive
00:35:17influence and made it safer for the horses.
00:35:20And I agree with your sentiment.
00:35:21I hope that we continue to have this conversation and that percentages continue to go in
00:35:25the favor of the athletes.
00:35:26When I remember covering the 2019 Breeders' Cup out at Santa Anita, and it was just
00:35:30there's just this black cloud hanging over this event, like with all the protests and
00:35:35all the negative news stories.
00:35:36And I remember like watching the races and like counting the horses as they crossed the
00:35:40line just to make sure. And we almost got through the whole thing.
00:35:43And then, of course, we had the horse breakdown in the Breeders' Cup Classic at the
00:35:46very end. But, you know, there's just I we talk a lot about the stuff that does not get
00:35:51fixed and does not get even worked on in racing.
00:35:54And I do think that there are so many people, so many more people now compared to a
00:35:59couple of years ago who really are trying to put the horse's safety first.
00:36:03And I think that that's something to really be applauded and really, you know, take hold
00:36:08of as something that that shows you that this sport can have a future and can be, you
00:36:14know, a bustling industry for years to come.
00:36:16And yeah, I just I don't think there were enough people pre-Santa Anita and pre the FBI
00:36:21indictments that really cared that much about the horse's safety.
00:36:25They just they were just trying to cash the checks and kick the can down the road.
00:36:29Now, the only thing left to me is, can we get drug reform?
00:36:33Can we get nationally instituted drug reform?
00:36:36Because that took a big blow, obviously, when USADA backed out.
00:36:40To me, that's the final piece, because I think at least the major tracks are doing
00:36:44everything they can now to make the racetrack safer, to be better about deciding who gets
00:36:50to run, who gets scratched.
00:36:52I think there's so much good work being done and people have gotten their heads out of
00:36:56their asses in this industry.
00:36:57Just we just need that universal, unified drug policy in America.
00:37:03And we'll see if we're going to get it.
00:37:04You know, I don't have high hopes now, but I do think that that's kind of the last
00:37:08missing piece in this regard and making the horses as safe as they can possibly be.
00:37:13But yeah, this is a great story.
00:37:14And I think there's a lot of people in California who deserve a lot of kudos.
00:37:18Just one other thing I wanted to mention from the CHRB's recent meeting is that a lot
00:37:24of people were up in arms because there were no penalties from the whole modern games
00:37:27fiasco in the juvenile turf where you scratch and then reenter and then scratched again
00:37:31and then won for fun with purse money only.
00:37:34Expressbet and First Racing, which are a subsidiary of the Stronic Group, have now
00:37:39instituted alternates so you can do you can do like a primary alternate and pick fours
00:37:44and pick fives, which should have been something that's been that's been a thing this
00:37:48whole time. That should have been easily, easily correctable.
00:37:52But it's good to see the Stronic Group and Firstbet and Expressbet taking that on.
00:37:58I just wanted to also mention one other good news story from this week, our associate
00:38:04producer Katie Petrunia, who does a great job not only on this show, but a great job
00:38:08on her stories and her videos, puts out a new video basically every day.
00:38:12Katie's a real workhorse. She did a story this week on the TaylorMade School of
00:38:17Horsemanship pilot program, which is something that that takes people who are
00:38:21struggling with substance abuses and maybe be living in transition housing and lets
00:38:26them come out and work with horses, work on the farm.
00:38:29It was Frank Taylor's idea over at TaylorMade, and it seems to be working really well.
00:38:33And it was an interesting there was an interesting angle to the story about how this
00:38:36kind of thing, if it's adopted, you know, in bigger in bigger capacities, maybe
00:38:41nationwide, could help address the labor shortage, because that's something that we're
00:38:45dealing with in horse racing as well is not having enough people to work on the
00:38:49backstretches. And, you know, it looks like it's early days, but it looks like this
00:38:53program is helping a lot of people and also helping the industry a little bit, too.
00:38:57So I just wanted to give a shout out to Katie and and just hope that program keeps on
00:39:02rolling, because that's that's another good news story that we should be talking
00:39:04about. The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders
00:39:08Association. The PHBA is announcing a trainer bonus for their upcoming two-year-old
00:39:12stallion series, which we've talked about on the show.
00:39:14At the end of the four-race series, bonuses totaling $50,000, a good chunk of
00:39:19change, will go to the trainers of the horses with the most points. For the
00:39:23trainer of the horse with the most points, first place will receive $25,000,
00:39:26second will receive $15,000, and third will receive $10,000. So that's a pretty
00:39:31decent amount of money for those new races. All PA-sired PA breds are
00:39:35eligible, but they must also be nominated. The early nomination deadline for the
00:39:39series, which starts August 22nd, is July 11th. You can learn more at
00:39:43pabred.com. There are also several standout Pennsylvania breds at the OBS
00:39:48March sale, including six-figure two-year-olds by First Crop Sires, Bolt
00:39:52Dorough, Cloud Computing, and Collected, as well as a filly by Pennsylvania Sired
00:39:56Peace and Justice, who sold for $150,000 to the homies at West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:40:01You can find your next Pennsylvania bred at the upcoming Fasig-Tipton Gulf Stream
00:40:05sale. We'll be right back after this message from the PHBA. The PA Horse Breeders
00:40:10Association introduces the Pennsylvania Stallion Series. Four brand-new races to
00:40:15be run at parks for PA-sired PA bred two-year-olds. There are two $100,000
00:40:21contests on August 22nd, PA Day at the Races. September 24th, PA Derby Day has
00:40:27two more races, each with a $200,000 purse. The PA Stallion Series, yet
00:40:32another reason why Pennsylvania is the premier place to breed and race. For more,
00:40:37please visit pabred.com.
00:40:45The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Canterbury Park. That Canterbury meat
00:41:14opens May 18th, and now we welcome to the show the Senior Vice President of
00:41:18Racing Operations at Canterbury, Andrew Offerman. Thanks for coming back on, man.
00:41:21Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. Of course. So, we just wanted to talk a
00:41:24little bit about the upcoming meat and the programs that you guys have. One of
00:41:27the ones that I thought was particularly interesting is the specific incentive
00:41:31for the Illinois Horsemen, because that's, you know, that's something that's a
00:41:34little bit up in the air right now, where a lot of those Illinois guys and gals
00:41:37are gonna run, and that Arlington Park isn't there anymore. Have you been
00:41:41in contact with people from Illinois Racing? Is that why this program came
00:41:44about? Yeah, absolutely, and we'll see if there's more to come in that program in
00:41:49the coming weeks, but we have been talking with them closely and obviously
00:41:53trying to be respectful of the situation as well there, but, you know, understanding
00:41:57that there's kind of a significant void, at least in part of the summer in the
00:42:01Midwest, trying to figure out creative programs that might be interesting to
00:42:05people that have historically raced in Illinois. To stick in the Midwest was
00:42:09important to us this summer, so that's why you're seeing kind of the extra
00:42:11thousand-dollar incentive that we've put in place this year for horses that have
00:42:15previously run in Illinois. They come up to Minnesota this summer. Andrew, we've
00:42:20talked a lot about the takeout at Canterbury, and I want to bring it up
00:42:23again. The industry-low 10% takeout on the PIC 5 and PIC 6. How
00:42:28has this worked out for Canterbury? You know, you've had, I believe, is it
00:42:32two years now to assess this? If you could just say, you know, take a look back
00:42:35at the program, how it's worked for both Canterbury and for the vetters. Sure. I
00:42:40mean, obviously, I think from the vetters' perspective, it's been super well
00:42:43received based on the feedback that we've seen and kind of the participation
00:42:47in those pools, specifically the PIC 5 over the last two years. It's really
00:42:51skyrocketed. You know, we have played around with a lot of different takeout
00:42:55changes over the years, and this one in particular was really used as a
00:43:00promotional tool to get awareness to our product, understand, you know, at least
00:43:04when we started that at the beginning of COVID, we were running a Monday,
00:43:07Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday schedule. We've changed that schedule somewhat
00:43:11now, but it was to get some awareness to what our product was and what we were
00:43:15all about. And I think that it's certainly delivered when you look at our
00:43:18handle numbers over the past two meets, over 120% growth in that product. And I
00:43:23think that that's not solely attributable to low takeout, but that's
00:43:27certainly been one of the tools that we've used to get attention to our
00:43:29product, and I think it's been super well received by the vetters across the
00:43:33country.
00:43:35Andrew, one of the things that I know a lot of fans, you know, have told us in
00:43:39the past that they love these boutique meets, and they also love the fact that
00:43:43when racetracks kind of cluster together, a really big day of racing,
00:43:48you know, where you get three, four, five, six steak races in a day, and it
00:43:51just makes for a really good atmosphere, you have top horses there. And I've
00:43:56noticed when going through your steaks schedule, that that's kind of what
00:43:59you've patterned, you know, your your steaks weekends around. Tell us a
00:44:04little bit about some of the upcoming big weekend steak weekends that you guys
00:44:08have coming up.
00:44:09Sure, our biggest day of the year is always Mystic Late Northern Stars Day
00:44:13with five or six steaks races, that'll be on Wednesday, June 22, this year. And
00:44:18we've been, you know, grouping steaks kind of into those five or six steaks
00:44:22days for probably the last five or six meets trying to kind of focus our
00:44:25attention on those significant days at Canterbury and have paid off
00:44:29specifically last year with a record Canterbury Park record handle day on
00:44:35that day. So we're looking forward to big things to come again this year on
00:44:38Wednesday, June 22.
00:44:40Just wanted to ask a similar question to Bill, but going back to my question
00:44:44about the incentives, what kind of effect have you seen on like field size
00:44:49on the number of barns that are over there? What Yeah, like how well has that
00:44:52worked in terms of increasing the horse population?
00:44:55Sure. So we run several different incentive programs, one's $1,000 shipping
00:45:00bonus. For anybody that participates in May, we spoke briefly about the
00:45:04Illinois bonus program, we also do some qualified shipping loan programs. And
00:45:08we see, you know, spikes in field size at the beginning of the meat as a
00:45:12result of those programs. And I think that that's important kind of as a
00:45:15seasonal meat, as a boutique meat as meat that still draws horses from, you
00:45:19know, several different racetracks across the country, we really don't have
00:45:23the benefit of that natural circuit that you see in some other places. So to
00:45:27start a meat strong with good field size, I think is very important to us,
00:45:31is we kind of capture betters attention and get people's interest in our meat
00:45:35at the beginning, and then try to hold it throughout the summer. So
00:45:38historically, we've seen, you know, the benefit of that program is that the
00:45:41first several weeks of the meat, the average field size is usually close to a
00:45:45horse above, you know, what you see kind of throughout kind of that lull that
00:45:49occurs maybe in June, before two year olds are ready, and then our meat
00:45:52typically picks back up again in July and finishes strong usually throughout
00:45:56August and September. But, you know, with horses coming from five or six
00:46:00different racetracks, lengthy and expensive ships for a lot of those
00:46:04horses to get here, it's important for us to put things in place to make
00:46:07sure we start the meat strong.
00:46:10Yeah, I think you guys do a lot of good stuff in terms of promotion. I
00:46:14think you get a lot of a lot of people out to the track,
00:46:16I think relative to other smaller, medium sized tracks, what's your
00:46:19attendance? What's your attendance like? And are there any things that
00:46:22you do to get regular just, you know, casual fans out to the track?
00:46:26Sure, pre pre COVID, we averaged about 6500 people a race car. And then
00:46:32obviously, you know, throughout COVID, that's changed a lot as we had to
00:46:35modify our business model substantially in year one. Last year, I think when
00:46:39we spoke, we were playing around with the schedule that was going to be
00:46:42Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday. And that was significantly
00:46:46successful in bringing some large crowds back to our facility on Sunday
00:46:50afternoons, kind of a more traditional time for them. And the added benefit
00:46:54for us is that we were able to hold on to the majority of our
00:46:56off track handle on Sunday afternoon. So this year, we're playing around a
00:47:01little bit further and running a Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday night,
00:47:05Sunday afternoon program in hopes to kind of recapture maybe about the last
00:47:0920% or so that on track business that that we lost over the last couple of
00:47:15years. So we're hopeful that we can bring back kind of a full complement of
00:47:19our on track business and blend that with some of the success that we've
00:47:23seen off track over the last couple of summers.
00:47:26Listen, and we'd love to see it. I really appreciate you guys are so there's
00:47:29so much talk about the smaller and mid level tracks that are kind of going by
00:47:33the wayside. But you have a revolutionary area idea, which is to try
00:47:37things to try things to get people to show up and bet on your track. And I
00:47:41think you guys are doing a terrific job. So thanks for coming on talking to us,
00:47:44Andrew, best of luck with the meet, which starts May 18.
00:47:48Appreciate it. Thank you very much, guys.
00:47:50The green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group and
00:47:52accounting tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
00:47:56industry. With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven
00:47:59strategies to save you taxes learn more about how they can help you at
00:48:02www dot green co.com. So we're thrilled to bring on this week Hall of Fame
00:48:08jockey and an excellent TV analyst on the Fox Sports and Naira show. Gary
00:48:12Stephens, thanks so much for coming on.
00:48:14Yeah, it's nice to finally be on here. I was supposed to have done it a
00:48:17couple of times. We're finally here, guys.
00:48:19Good to see you, man. I wanted to ask off the jump about D. Wayne Lucas and
00:48:23secret oath, because obviously you have that shared history with him with
00:48:27winning colors. You know, he's never afraid to step outside the box. A. Why
00:48:31do you think that is? Why do you think D. Wayne is so willing to take these
00:48:34chances? And B. Do you see any kind of similarities in the situations between
00:48:38secret oath and winning colors?
00:48:40Yeah, well, Wayne has never been afraid to jump outside the box, and I think
00:48:45in today's times with a lot of negativity going around surrounding our
00:48:50industry right now and indecisiveness and whatnot, I think this is a feel
00:48:56good, feel good story. And Wayne has always been about this sport 100%. He's
00:49:01the best ambassador that we've ever had for the sport. And if we have a czar,
00:49:06it's him. And listen, the similarities. Two very good feelings. People have
00:49:15asked me, is she anything like winning colors? I actually think what I'm seeing
00:49:19in the mornings, she may be better than winning colors. She's got a different
00:49:24style than winning colors. She can sit. She loves to sit off the pace and be a
00:49:30stalker and accelerate. She's got brilliant acceleration for a dirt horse,
00:49:35almost like a turf horse. When she drops and puts in her kick, she gets it over
00:49:41with in a hurry. Granted, she's been running against Phillies, but I think
00:49:46there's a lot more in the tank than what we've seen. And just because he runs in
00:49:50the Arkansas Derby doesn't necessarily tie his hands into running in the
00:49:54Kentucky Derby. And he's well aware of that. He's got Theriault Road as well
00:50:00headed for the bluegrass. So Wayne's always been a great decision maker. And
00:50:05like I said, he's not afraid to step out of the box.
00:50:08Gary, I want to stay on the same topic because it's so interesting. And
00:50:11obviously, as Joe pointed out with you and winning colors and Lucas, you have a
00:50:15history there. But I want to ask you, you surprised me a little bit because I
00:50:18know what Wayne has said. But if the Philly wins the Arkansas Derby, I don't
00:50:24see any scenario where she doesn't go in the Kentucky Derby because that's
00:50:27Wayne. He goes for it. I mean, he's never shy. I can't see him backing up and
00:50:33say, no, no, no, we just beat all the boys. Now we're going to go for the
00:50:36Phillies. Am I maybe right about that in some extent?
00:50:40I think you're probably 100 percent right. If she wins, if she wins the
00:50:45Arkansas Derby and she's healthy and continues to thrive as she has, I think
00:50:53we will see her the first Saturday in May. That's yet to be determined. She's
00:50:59going to have to run a powerful race. And I would say if she gets beat and
00:51:04Ethereal Road should should happen to win the Bluegrass stakes, then he's
00:51:09going to have to think things out and decide what he wants to do. But listen,
00:51:13I think it's great for the sport. He's always been great for the sport. And all
00:51:18these years later for this to be happening right now at this point in his
00:51:22career, it's a blessing. I see Wayne's I mean, when I hang out with him in the
00:51:28morning, just the two of us, we talked about a lot of different things. And but
00:51:33it's all been surrounding sacred oath or sacred oath since, you know, her last
00:51:42couple of victories, especially, you know, I wanted to stay on the topic of
00:51:46the Derby trail because we we talk a lot about the Kentucky Derby contenders on
00:51:50the show every week. I think our consensus is that there's not one horse,
00:51:55one superstar that scares you right now is a lot of nice horses. But what what
00:51:59is your what are your impressions as we head into April on the three year old
00:52:02class this year?
00:52:04Well, I think that classic causeway is caught my eye the most and I followed
00:52:11him since before he ever ran his first race. Did you know I was at Churchill
00:52:17Downs doing Fox's America's Day at the races all summer last summer, also
00:52:23hustling books for being an agent for Drayden Van Dyke. So I was riding, you
00:52:28know, a handful of horses for Brian Lynch. And he had told me about this
00:52:32cold early on that he thought that, you know, he he was above average, said he's
00:52:37something special. And I think that's the amazing part is when these horsemen
00:52:42when these trainers are able to, you know, find these these babies that they
00:52:50know are special, they they see from the ground what I used to feel on a horse's
00:52:56back. And it's a it's a pretty good feeling. And it's a great feeling of
00:53:00confidence that you have. I remember back the first time that I rode Braco,
00:53:05who I wound up winning the Breeders Cup. Juvenile Lonnie went on and won the
00:53:10Derby and onto the Kentucky Derby. A rough trip. But I remember the first time
00:53:15I ever breezing was a half mile for Andy Winnick. And I came back and I said,
00:53:21I'm going to win the Breeders Cup juvenile on this horse. He said, dude,
00:53:24it's like May and we haven't even started yet with this horse. He said,
00:53:29how are we going to do this? Well, it happened. And it's just you get that
00:53:33feeling. And I think that the top top horsemen, they can sense this as well
00:53:40and sense it early on. And they've started that journey well before any of
00:53:46us have ever heard of a horse like Classic Coswin.
00:53:50Gary, allow me to switch gears a little bit. And obviously, you know, you're a
00:53:54jockey that's known throughout the country, but we still always think about
00:53:57you as a Southern California rider more so than anyplace else. Were you
00:54:01surprised by the two jockeys, particularly Flavien Pratt and then Umberto
00:54:05Brespoglia as well, saying they're pulling up stakes and coming east?
00:54:10No, I wasn't at all. Matter of fact, I thought that this move would have come a
00:54:17couple of years ago, to be quite honest with you. You've seen we've all seen the
00:54:21success that Flavien has had, you know, when he's traveled to the East Coast,
00:54:26Chad Brown always willing to put him put him on horses more than willing. It
00:54:33seemed like he was kind of his go to guy when he come out there. Look, he's
00:54:38climbing into what I consider the toughest jockey colony possibly in the
00:54:44world. I'm not just going to say in North America, but possibly the world. I
00:54:48mean, you got the Ortiz brothers, Manny Franco. I mean, the list goes on and on.
00:54:54I don't want to miss anybody. But and I think that Umberto also, you know,
00:55:01you've got to think about the future and I'm not going to sugarcoat anything. We
00:55:05see the numbers in the smaller fields in Southern California. And that's one
00:55:10reason I'm in Arkansas right now with Giovanni Franco and Tiago Pereira, you
00:55:16know, very good riders that they were sixth, seventh on the list and people's
00:55:22choices and when they're running, you know, shorter fields and and multiple
00:55:26trainers have have multiple entries in these short fields. It doesn't it
00:55:31doesn't leave a lot of crumbs for the rest. And granted, Flavien Pratt has
00:55:36completely dominated over these past couple of years and people. Why is he
00:55:41picking up? I think that he's making a long term decision. He's got two young
00:55:46kids and and he's got to raise them. And, um, I don't want to get into
00:55:52politics or anything like that with the state. But there's there's a reason that
00:55:57people are leaving California and it's not always job related. You know, you
00:56:02brought up some of the jockeys in New York and I agree with you that it's the
00:56:05strongest colony in the world. You're kind of that kind of thread between the
00:56:10great writers of the 80s and the 90s and into the 2000s. You've seen so many of
00:56:14these guys ride at their at their peak and you're obviously among the greats.
00:56:18But, you know, I wonder if there's any kind of trend maybe that you've noticed
00:56:22over time, any kind of way that the jockeys have either gotten more talented,
00:56:25changed their riding style. How would you compare this era right now with the
00:56:29Ortiz's and Luis's to some of the earlier jockeys you rode with? Look, I
00:56:34mean, Angel Pardero's, the Lafitte Pink Eyes, Bill Shoemaker, Eddie
00:56:38Delahousie. I mean, again, I don't want to forget anybody. They were great,
00:56:43great riders. I'm proud that I was able to compete with the guys that I was
00:56:48able to compete with in the mid 80s all the way through the decades that you
00:56:53just mentioned. I believe that at that time when I came around in California,
00:56:58it was it was like the tide kind of shifted from the East Coast to the West
00:57:03Coast. I won't say that we were dominant, but we were we were strong. It was
00:57:07equally equally strong. I think we've seen that that tide move back over
00:57:13the past 15 to 20 years to the dominance has come on the West Coast. And I'm not
00:57:20taking anything away or to the East Coast. I'm not taking anything away from
00:57:24the West Coast jockeys. It all depends on opportunity. And if you're not
00:57:29getting the opportunity, you're not getting to ride races to improve upon
00:57:33yourself. Listen, when you've got a group full of riders in a jockey's room
00:57:37going out competing with the best of the best every day, it makes you better.
00:57:42And as you get better, it's like any sport. We see these athletes, whether
00:57:47it's basketball, football, any sport you want to pick. We see these young kids
00:57:53that are doing Magic Johnson back in the day, Jordan. And and they just I mean,
00:58:00they're repeating their moves as young kids trying to emulate these guys. And
00:58:05through that, they get better and better and better. And I think that, you know,
00:58:10I see a lot of Angel Cordero in a lot of these jockeys. And from that, these
00:58:18young kids are there. They're emulating the Ortiz brothers and the Tyler
00:58:25Gaffney owns, if you will. There's a lot of talent out there. And, you know,
00:58:31there there are a lot more opportunities on the East Coast from when you come to
00:58:36the other side of the Mississippi from from California. There's a lot more
00:58:39racing opportunities than what there is. And then if you're on that island in
00:58:45California, and that's sort of what it's turned into.
00:58:48Gary, back to the Rispoli Pratt thing. It's bad news for California racing, but
00:58:53it's gonna be good news for somebody because there's an awful lot of wins out
00:58:57there. Just waiting for a jockey to pick them up. We have Juan Hernandez is
00:59:02probably the most likely but maybe is there anyone I mean, I know you hope
00:59:06it's your two riders and maybe it will be but um, you know, when we're having
00:59:10this conversation this time next year, who's who's filled that void in
00:59:13California? Who do you see being? Yeah, maybe not the new Flavian Pratt because
00:59:18that's too much to ask. But the, you know, the person who really took
00:59:21advantage of this situation out there?
00:59:23Well, I think one will, obviously, there's no question in my mind. He was
00:59:29already, you know, getting to that position with the good call to forgive
00:59:35me right now with the good cold Richard Mandela's as kingdom. Yes,
00:59:40unfortunately, he must have worked the other day. And hopefully that doesn't
00:59:43keep him out of the Santa Anita Derby. Hopefully everything gets all right
00:59:47there. But he's become the kind of go to guy that when they couldn't get
00:59:51Pratt. And that's a little bit what happened to me when I first went to
00:59:55Southern California as far as the pink eyes and shoemaker and Della who sees
00:59:59and Holly and, and everybody, if you put yourself in a position that you've
01:00:04worked horses or whatever, and, and Flavian Pratt's Pratt's got multiple
01:00:10options, you became the go to guy. And once you rode and won that horse, and
01:00:14they saw talent there, you didn't lose them out, you kept building up
01:00:18momentum. And that's what I see happening with with one, but there's
01:00:21going to be some guys step in there. There's talk that Ramon Vasquez is
01:00:27going out. You know, if California loves new faces, and they love faces that
01:00:33have gone away for a while and come back. But as far as my two jobs go
01:00:37right now, we don't anticipate and go back to Southern California. That's not
01:00:42in the cards at this point in time.
01:00:45Interesting. You know, there's an incident I wanted to ask you about in
01:00:48the in the fountain of youth, I'm sure you saw it the Paco Lopez incident
01:00:51where that horse came out and you had the two horses clip and stumble and
01:00:55lose their riders. Thankfully, everybody was okay. You know, Paco has a
01:00:58reputation for that kind of thing. Yeah, as far as I know, he hasn't gotten
01:01:01suspended for that yet. But he has gotten suspended for careless riding in
01:01:04the past. Do you think that that's something that the Gulfstream stewards
01:01:07and maybe some other track officials need to come down harder on him so that
01:01:11stuff doesn't happen as much?
01:01:12Well, I think that this is almost like, like the little boy that cries wolf,
01:01:19you know, all the time all the time. And all of a sudden, you cry wolf in
01:01:25there actually is a wolf. But my point here being it's it's 2022. Where is our
01:01:33technology? Why do we not have a drone or something with overhead shot? Because
01:01:38I did not see one angle that that proved him guilty of any foul. You know, when
01:01:46the incident happened, it was tight quarters and there wasn't room for any
01:01:51And I'm not sure that junior Alvarado wanted to be where he was at that point
01:01:57when when it happened, they were coming off of the turn. And there was not one
01:02:01angle that I saw where I could I could put blame on anybody. There was pressure
01:02:07on the outside. He he was holding his own ground. And listen, I watched these
01:02:14races and you know, he's a very talented rider and he cuts a fine line and
01:02:20there's been some crashes and dangerous situations. But this particular instance,
01:02:26I can't put any blame on him is specifically and I'm just I'm trying to
01:02:31be fair here. Let's get some technology going where these stewards have better
01:02:37views than what they have. It's 2022.
01:02:40Gary, you're wearing many hats now, including your work on America's Day at
01:02:43the races on Fox Sports Network. And I've asked this to several people that we've
01:02:47had on from that show. We're all wondering, what's it doing for racing?
01:02:52And we know it's a good thing, no doubt about that. But what kind of feedback
01:02:57have you heard? Do you think the show is creating new racing fans? And if so, you
01:03:01know, to what extent or what kind of impact has this had? You know, this is
01:03:05something that, you know, we used to have 10 hours a year of television for all
01:03:08the entire sport. Now we've got 10 hours a day, thanks to Fox Sports and you guys.
01:03:14I think it's definitely built new fans. And, you know, I hate to say it, but the
01:03:21pandemic, as many folks in the world that we lost, you know, to COVID-19, it
01:03:33could quite possibly have helped horse racing in a big, big way. And I'm not
01:03:39possibly it did. And, you know, we were the first game in town that was, that
01:03:44was able to be broadcast a sport, you know, everybody shut down. And because of
01:03:51our outdoor and dealing with horses and stuff, we were able to continue on and
01:03:58bring, bring horse racing into homes at a horrible, horrible time. And it looks
01:04:04like now we're finally on our way out of this. Everything's changing back.
01:04:09But during that time, I mean, look, I, I, I clicked on Fox Sports to see what's on
01:04:15all the time. And, you know, there's a lot of young people that love other
01:04:21sports and we were the only sport there. And all of a sudden they're watching and
01:04:25they're seeing there's, you know, we can't get any action on basketball,
01:04:29football, or anything else right now. Why don't we bet on some horses and learn
01:04:32about this game a little bit. And I think that we've done a really good job, you
01:04:36know, toning down things, not dummying up the game, but trying to explain things
01:04:42as best we can to the new viewers. And we're constantly reminded that from our
01:04:48producers and Tony Alivato, Eric Donovan, all of our staff, look, just make this
01:04:54appreciable to the people that don't understand the game. And, and for the
01:04:58people out there that understand the game, like you all do, and breeders,
01:05:03owners throughout the country that do watch our show. That's the reason we
01:05:07speak sometimes as we do, just so we know that we've constantly got new viewers
01:05:13coming in and we want to keep growing. Not only me personally, I want to just
01:05:19keep growing the sport period.
01:05:21Yeah, and I think you guys do a great job of straddling that line between not
01:05:25being too complicated, not dumbing it down too much. And the other thing I like
01:05:28about that show is you have a diverse array of expert voices. Obviously, you
01:05:33was been a Hall of Fame jockey, you have Maggie down the paddock examining the
01:05:36horse flesh, you have the handicappers like Andy and Jonathan. I wonder if
01:05:40there's anything that maybe you have learned from sitting in that different
01:05:43perspective and working with all of those, you know, that array of people who
01:05:47know a lot of stuff about the game from different perspectives.
01:05:51Yeah, and also Richie Migliore, you know, who I have great respect for. And we
01:05:58think a lot alike. But I think it's it's like I was talking about, you know,
01:06:04when we had such a diverse and great jockey room in California for so long
01:06:10when I during my growing years, it can only make you better. And we have a team
01:06:15that we, I think, strive to make each other better and we do make each other
01:06:20better. And I think we all respect each other's opinions. Yeah, me and Andy, we
01:06:25have our moments, but it's it's all good when when the camera's off and it's not
01:06:30that I get I get rattled a little bit. And he's got himself a little little bit
01:06:34of an attitude to, you know, but I think we all compliment each other, hopefully.
01:06:42And I get a lot of feedback through social media. Some of it, you know, I
01:06:48ignore and and whatnot. But it's a great team. And I'm just appreciative that I'm
01:06:54there. So with that, you got to check out the Fox Sports TV show. If you
01:06:58haven't seen it already, Gary's great on it. Everybody's great on it. It really
01:07:02brings you to the track on those days where you might not be able to make it,
01:07:05especially at Saratoga. Gary Stevens, thank you so much for coming on and
01:07:08talking to us. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the time. The
01:07:13Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an
01:07:15accounting, tax, consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
01:07:19industry. As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Gary Stevens will
01:07:22receive a free one hour tax consultation. Learn more at greenco.com.
01:07:27We'll be right back after this message from the Green Group.
01:07:30Why do the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen select the Green
01:07:33Group as their tax advisor? We simply save them money and know how to make
01:07:37them more successful. Over the past 40 years, founder Leonard Green has owned
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01:08:21The TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV. The XBTV Workout of the Week
01:08:41this week features a pair of Kenny McPeak Kentucky Derby hopefuls, as we're
01:08:44seeing right now. Rattle and Roll and Smile Happy worked in company on March
01:08:4819th at Gulfstream going five furlongs in a very swift 58.81. Kenny hasn't
01:08:54decided yet for Smile Happy where he's going to go either in the Bluegrass or
01:08:57in the Florida Derby. The Rattle and Roll, as we're going to talk about in a
01:09:00little bit, is aiming for the Grade 2 Louisiana Derby this Saturday at
01:09:04Fairgrounds. And as always, you want to see those workouts as we ratchet up and
01:09:08get closer to the Derby, you can go to XBTV.com to search the horse. Most
01:09:13likely they'll have it. They've got a great, great repository of all those
01:09:16works. Go check it out. We're actually going to talk about some racing now.
01:09:19There's some decent racing this weekend, better than decent. We've got the
01:09:22Fairgrounds Louisiana Derby card, which is a great stakes-laden card. They have
01:09:27four graded races, five stakes overall. You can get all stakes, pick five. And
01:09:32then we have the Dubai World Cup on Saturday as well. We're going to get to
01:09:35both. I just wanted to get some thoughts from the guys about what they're
01:09:39looking forward to on the Louisiana Derby card. I think I'm going to steal
01:09:42it and say Echo Zulu. I feel like you guys are going to say Echo Zulu too.
01:09:45I'm sorry, John. I couldn't help it.
01:09:48That's my new gamine. That's my new gamine, for God's sake.
01:09:52Right. Yeah. I mean, the funny thing about the Louisiana Derby, Joe, is it's
01:09:57not as good at races to prep the Risen Star because the Risen Star included
01:10:01Zandon and Smile Happy. They're both going in opposite directions or in
01:10:05other directions. So, you know, Epicenter has an easier task in this race.
01:10:12It's a way better race than the first ball.
01:10:15Yeah. You know, which is when do you ever see that? I mean, he should
01:10:18probably win again, I would imagine. I don't know exactly what he's going to
01:10:22prove in this if he goes out there. And yeah, I mean, at the risk of just
01:10:26duplicating what you said, but to me, the story of the day is Echo Zulu. You
01:10:31know, Steve Asmussen is something unusual here. He's only given her one
01:10:35prep for the Kentucky Oaks. Most trainers will give the horses at least
01:10:38two. He's been, you know, she's really been under the radar. She comes in
01:10:41here ready to go. And, you know, the thing is, we don't always see three
01:10:46year olds make that transition from two to three. It trips some of these
01:10:50horses up. Is she going to come back as good or maybe even better as she was
01:10:55last year? You know, because she was a filly, she got a little bit
01:10:58overshadowed by the Colts and everything and in the Breeders' Cup
01:11:02Juvenile and whatnot in Corniche. But she was absolutely phenomenal last
01:11:08year. And the other thing, too, is, you know, that kind of plays into it
01:11:10because I'm interested in this whole story of Secret Oath, which we haven't
01:11:13talked about today. But could if Echo Zulu comes back and just wins by the
01:11:18length of the stretch, gets 104 buyer or something like that, could it be
01:11:22more difficult for Secret Oath to beat Echo Zulu in the Oaks or to win the
01:11:27Kentucky Derby? That's actually a conversation worth having if, in fact,
01:11:31Echo Zulu comes back and runs the kind of race that I think works.
01:11:33Well, not to pat myself on the back, but I will say that if you go back to
01:11:37last week's show, somebody, one of the three of us said that the three-year-old
01:11:41filly group was actually deeper than the three-year-old Colt group. Was it
01:11:45Joe Bianca? No. Did Vivian Hernandez mention it in Bill Finley's skating
01:11:50article? No. Oh, it was me. It was me. It was me. Yes. So I'm very excited to
01:11:55see Echo Zulu come back, you know, make her 2022 debut undefeated and just
01:12:00looked like the class of the field last year. But I'll tell you what, guys,
01:12:03there are a couple of fillies in here that I wouldn't be surprised that could
01:12:06give her a race. Sequist, who is owned by our friends over at West Point
01:12:11Thoroughbred, I think is a legitimate filly as well. And then there's a
01:12:15sneaky horse in there, Hidden Connection on the outside, that is owned by our
01:12:18friends at Hidden Brook Farm and trained by Brad Calhoun, who ran a very
01:12:23sneaky race last time in the Race Alexandra and just got tired and faded
01:12:29to fourth after setting the pace in that race. And I really feel like that was
01:12:33her tightener. So, you know, she may have needed that one, but let's not
01:12:37be, you know, silly. I mean, Echo Zulu is still the class of the field and
01:12:40certainly from the one hole should go right to the front and probably improve
01:12:44from there. At least that's what everyone is hoping for, because I would
01:12:47love to see 100% Echo Zulu coming into Derby weekend, whether the Oaks or the
01:12:53Derby, doesn't matter. But coming in and being cranked up and ready to go
01:12:57100%, you know, for that weekend. I'm also interested in watching the
01:13:03fairgrounds. I know fairgrounds, excuse me, the Louisiana Derby at the
01:13:05fairgrounds. I know it's not as good of a race as the previous one, or even,
01:13:11you know, the LeCamp for that matter. But there are nine horses in the race,
01:13:15four of which are represented in our contest. But even more importantly, six
01:13:19of them guys, six of them were Keeneland graduates, you know, that went
01:13:23through the sales at various sales at Keeneland and are now showing up in
01:13:27this, you know, legitimate Derby prep. So to me, that's also of great
01:13:31interest. Proxy is running in the New Orleans Classic, the grade two, which I
01:13:36think is going to be exciting to see him come back. You know, we're fans of
01:13:41Michael Stidham, so I want to see, you know, that horse run really, really
01:13:44well. And then the other Derby prep that we haven't mentioned yet is the Sunland
01:13:48Park Derby, which is, you know, for 50, it's a 50 point race, you know, and
01:13:53Slowdown Andy, which was on my stable group, is the two to one favorite in
01:13:58that for Doug O'Neill and looks to hopefully pick up the 50 points and get
01:14:02me back into the race of our contest. Because at the end of the day, that is
01:14:06the most important thing we talk about. Of course, of course. And you know, if
01:14:10Slowdown Andy can't take you to the promised land, John, I think you might be
01:14:14a little assed out, as we say in Brooklyn. Just other action, as John
01:14:19mentioned, there's four horses in the Louisiana Derby that are part of our
01:14:24team. Al's got a duo in their uncoupled entry of Zozos and Rattle and Roll. Sue's
01:14:30got Pioneer Madonna, Madonna, Pioneer Medina on her leftovers team. And of
01:14:36course, Bill has got Epicenter, who's carried him to first place. So far, I
01:14:40misspoke earlier, there's eight stakes, eight stakes races at fairgrounds on
01:14:44Saturday. Three of them are Louisiana bred and we have five open stakes to
01:14:49close the cart. And then overseas, we got the Dubai World Cup, actually a monster
01:14:53cart with a ton of money up for grabs. Some pretty good American
01:14:58participation, not just in the Dubai World Cup. Just going to run down a
01:15:02couple of other notable horses that are running before we get to the big race.
01:15:06We've got Yubir, who was named champion turf male in America after his Breeders
01:15:11Cup turf win last year. He's going to be in the Shima Classic, big, big strong
01:15:16looking field in that race. The Dubai turf has Colonel Liam, we talked to Todd
01:15:21Pletcher recently about him going there and he did get on the flight with Life
01:15:25is Good. Dr. Scheibel in the Dubai Golden Shaheen, also Everfast, Drain the
01:15:30Clock, strong constitution for Doug O'Neill. Switzerland, who used to be an
01:15:36American horse and has really taken over in the Middle East. Wonder where Craig
01:15:41is, who's a Mid-Atlantic based horse. So we got a lot of US horses in the Golden
01:15:46Shaheen. In the outpost sprint, we've got Casa Creed, who I'm a fan of, Get
01:15:50Smokin' as well. Let's see, what else we got? UAE Derby, Pinehurst. Bill was
01:15:55mentioning this off-air that this would be Pinehurst's last chance
01:15:59basically to accrue points for the Derby, but he's still trained by Bob
01:16:04Baffert, so it doesn't look like that's going to happen. And in the Godolphin
01:16:07Mile, shout out to New York-bred Bankit for Steve Asmussen and Winchell
01:16:12Thoroughbreds and Willis Horton Racing. Son of Central Banker, who's going to be
01:16:15in the Godolphin Mile. But obviously all eyes are going to be on Life is Good in
01:16:19the Dubai World Cup. It's an 11-horse field going a mile and a quarter. That's
01:16:23the big question with him. I haven't looked at the the PP specifically to see
01:16:27if there's any other speed. I can't imagine there's someone that's going to
01:16:30want to run with Life is Good early. I think most people are going to try to
01:16:33take back and hope that that last furlong does him in. He was slowing down
01:16:37a little bit at the end of the Pegasus, but you can always have that debate
01:16:39about whether or not Irad was easing up on him or he was getting tired. What are
01:16:44your guys' predictions? Do you think we're gonna see Life is Good
01:16:47have that powerful, powerful performance that he had in the Pegasus and the
01:16:50Breeders' Cup?
01:16:52Yeah, I don't see why we wouldn't, Joe. And, you know, this isn't a good race,
01:16:57especially, you know, Hot Rod Charlie's the new one to the mix in here after the
01:17:00Saudi Cup. But, you know, after he thrashed the horse of the year, Nick's
01:17:04Go in the Pegasus World Cup, you know, I don't think there gets to be much
01:17:08bigger of a test than that. You know, I'm looking at this race more as a fan
01:17:12than as a better or anything else. You know, we think this horse is really,
01:17:17really special. And, you know, unfortunately, in this day and age,
01:17:20you're probably gonna get to see him run for three, four more times. So let's
01:17:24just enjoy it when he does go out there. And, you know, I would be
01:17:28disappointed if not only if he lost, but I would be disappointed if he didn't
01:17:33win decisively by four or five legs. Because, you know, the hype, I think, is
01:17:39real with this horse, and I'd like to see him go out and prove it again.
01:17:41A mile and a quarter is gonna be tough. A mile and a quarter is gonna be tough
01:17:44in the fact that he had to ship around the world. But yeah, dollar for
01:17:48dollar, he's the best horse in the country, if not in the world. And
01:17:52that's what he's trying to prove. Joe, you know, you made me chuckle before
01:17:56when you were talking about how this horse jumped on the plane and it came
01:18:00over to, you know, overseas. I know when I'm on a plane flying commercial,
01:18:05you know, that I'm always watching the aisle and handicapping who I
01:18:10want to have sit next to me. Do you think, like, life is good with sitting
01:18:13there on the plane going, please don't let Bankit, come on, don't let Bankit
01:18:17sit. Oh, no, come on, Pinehurst. We want Pinehurst. You think, like, the
01:18:20horse was, like, handicapping and hoping to see who's going to be, you
01:18:24know, traveling next to him on the flight?
01:18:25Or maybe, like, Primarium is a snorer.
01:18:27Right, exactly. Do you guys do that also when you're on planes? Do you,
01:18:33like, handicap the seat?
01:18:34Well, I don't know if you know this, John, but on commercial flights, they
01:18:37assign you seats. They give you the seats. It's not just a free... John
01:18:41hasn't flown commercial in so long, he forgot how it worked. They don't
01:18:44just open the plane doors and everybody, first come, first served.
01:18:47They give you a seat.
01:18:48Right. But you don't know, if you're not traveling with somebody, you
01:18:51don't know who that empty seat next to you is going to be filled by.
01:18:53Oh, yeah, yeah. When they come down the aisle, you're like, please not
01:18:57him. Please not him.
01:18:57Exactly. Exactly. Please not the guy with the open container of food or,
01:19:01you know, or please don't have the, you know, please don't have Bill
01:19:04Finley sit next to me because the plane's going to get struck by
01:19:06lightning.
01:19:06Thanks, John.
01:19:07You know, Bill, you probably remember this. Remember People's Express?
01:19:12Sure, of course. Yeah.
01:19:13So, Joe, there was an airline called People's Express and it was
01:19:15literally $29 to fly basically anywhere on the East Coast. But the
01:19:19$29 only got you the actual bottom of the seat. You had to pay extra for
01:19:25like the back of the seat, for the air you breathe, for like... And what
01:19:29they would do is like everything was like a one-up charge. And depending
01:19:33on what you wanted to buy or spend, you know, you could you could like
01:19:36get a fancier seat or a better part of the seat. But it would be like a
01:19:40cattle, you know, charge when they open the gate. They would basically
01:19:44literally say, everyone who's on flight 28 to Newark, please come to
01:19:48gate 52. Like you didn't know what gate it was either. It was kind of
01:19:51like Russian roulette. And everyone would like run to the gate and stand
01:19:54in line and then you would jump in whatever seat you wanted to. And that
01:19:57was like the first really big, you know, way of flying no-frills was
01:20:02People's Express. And they would literally come down the aisleway with
01:20:06a credit card machine, with like the old-fashioned credit card receipt
01:20:10machine. And you would pay for the flight before they took off. They
01:20:15would take everyone's money because they would basically be like, oh,
01:20:17okay, you're breathing air. So that's another $28. And you have a bag that
01:20:21is overhead. So we're going to charge you an overhead fee. But that was
01:20:25like, that was People's Express. Remember that, Bill?
01:20:28No, absolutely.
01:20:28Well, a lot of airlines do that now where it's like, oh, you wanted to
01:20:31take a bag with you. Well, that's going to be another 50 bucks. We didn't
01:20:35know people wanted to travel with a bag. This is like the hackiest thing
01:20:38ever. What's the deal with airline food? It's been a good show. We're
01:20:44rolling. So might as well get all of our grievances out now.
01:20:50They're festivus. Festivus, you know.
01:20:52I got a lot of problems with you people.
01:20:58The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds. Joining
01:21:01a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of
01:21:03instant camaraderie among people surrounding high-class horses and stakes
01:21:07action for a fraction of the cost of trying to do it on your own. You can
01:21:09learn more at westpointtb.com. It was great to talk to Terry Finley last
01:21:14week ahead of OBS March. They came out of the OBS March sale with 12, a
01:21:18full dozen new two-year-olds. You can go on their website now, westpointtb.com
01:21:22and check out their latest availability. They have a Bernardini Colt and a
01:21:25Practical Joke Colt, both going to John Sadler. Collected Colt going to
01:21:30Sharita Vo. Motown Colt going to Steve Aspussen and a Peace and Justice
01:21:34filly, who we mentioned earlier in the PA Bread spot, heading to Christoph
01:21:38Clement. So West Point, always very diverse with the trainers they give
01:21:42horses to. I think that's always a good call because then you don't get put
01:21:45on the shelf. Like, you know, if you have a ton of horses with one
01:21:49trainer, there are some horses that might not be able to get on the track.
01:21:52You might be competing with yourself a little bit. So shout out to Terry and
01:21:55all the partners at West Point for a very successful, we'll say, OBS March.
01:22:00Got a lot of horses, got new horses in the barn and we look forward to seeing
01:22:03all those two-year-olds on the track. We'll be right back with this message
01:22:07from West Point Thoroughbreds.
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01:22:36Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:22:40We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:22:42We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:22:44We're always with your horse, every step of the way, when it comes to
01:22:49Just driving up and down the road every day, there's not a time that I don't
01:22:53look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal, the people that
01:22:56come to invest in the game.
01:22:58I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can, because
01:23:00we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:23:05The TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:23:08If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business could
01:23:11benefit your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:23:13Visit legacybloodstock.com to learn more about the legacy bloodstock program.
01:23:17Give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:23:19They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own.
01:23:21At the OBS March sale, Colt by More Spirit sold for $700,000, bred by Brad King.
01:23:27He was the third highest priced More Spirit yearling last year when he went
01:23:31through the legacy consignment for $160,000.
01:23:34Great job.
01:23:35Great prep work by Legacy on that front.
01:23:38And so far in 2022, Legacy is responsible for 50 winners.
01:23:41We're up to 50 now with earnings of $1.6 million.
01:23:45Shout out to Tommy and Wendy and the whole team at Legacy.
01:23:48Always doing a great job.
01:23:49All right.
01:23:50So that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN Riders Room presented by
01:23:53Keeneland.
01:23:53A reminder to get those entries in for the Keeneland April Horses of Racing Age Sale.
01:23:57The sale is April 29th.
01:23:59The entry deadline is April 1st, which is next Friday.
01:24:02And that is one week away from the start of the Keeneland Spring.
01:24:05We cannot wait.
01:24:06I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green, our excellent Green Group guest of the week,
01:24:10Gary Stevens, our producer, Patty Wolf, our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
01:24:14and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aaliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:24:18Thank you all so much for watching.
01:24:20See you next week.