The Jeremy Kyle Show (17 Feb 2017)
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CreativityTranscript
00:00You are watching On Demand. Please do not try to vote or enter any competition or other interactivity in this programme, as it may not count and you may still be charged.
00:10On today's show...
00:20You said to my team that growing up, Chloe used to be a girly girl.
00:24She wore pink, she had long hair, she was pretty.
00:27I know that this is what I want to do and, you know, if I do die on the table, at least I know that I was dying whilst becoming who I was meant to be.
00:36I'm going to have to say you have to go with what he wishes because you can tell by just looking at him, he's hurting.
00:42You say that you support me through this, I don't always feel like you do.
00:49I thought, well, he left his Facebook open. I just had a little nosey and I found a couple of messages to a girl.
00:57Look me in the eyes, do you think he's going to fail?
00:59Um, 50-50.
01:01People in this lovely audience think that Pete is a cheat. Quite a few hands there.
01:05Since the start of your relationship with Louise, have you had sexual intercourse with anyone else? We asked Pete, he said no. Why do you say no?
01:12CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
01:31Hello, my friends, good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
01:34My first guest today, Julie, says that since she found out that her granddaughter has decided she wants to undergo gender reassignment surgery,
01:41this lady's been left devastated and insists that she cannot really accept her decision.
01:45Julie says that in her eyes, she will always see her as a little girl who was raised
01:49and she cannot even bring herself to call her the male name her granddaughter has chosen.
01:53Charlie, today, grandmother Julie wants to try and convince her granddaughter that if she does go through with this, she will regret it.
01:59Julie's on the Jeremy Carr Show, that way.
02:01CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
02:05Hello.
02:08So nice to meet you. How are you? I'm OK.
02:10I think it's very easy to get lost in, you know, I'm transgender, I want to change,
02:16and we've talked over the last 12 years about how difficult that must be to be born into the wrong body,
02:21but I want to focus on you to start with. Um, Chloe wants to be Charlie. Do you still call Charlie Chloe?
02:28It's difficult. I do sometimes. I try to call her Charlie, but she's still Chloe to me.
02:36You said to my team that growing up, Chloe used to be a girly girl.
02:40She wore pink, she had long hair, she was pretty. For her birthdays, it was dolls and stuff.
02:46And for you...
02:48That was just about 19, 20 months ago.
02:54And she was on holiday with me in Cyprus, that was my old apartment. There she is.
02:59We had fun as two girls.
03:03And in 19, 20 months, it's completely turned around.
03:09How do you feel about that? How did you first find out? Tell me from your point of view.
03:14Um, yes, there we are.
03:16Is that one of the worries, that it's happened so quickly?
03:18Yes. Um, a little bit of background.
03:22I raised Chloe for the first six months of her life.
03:26And then, um...
03:29You're very close, aren't you?
03:31Very close. I was the first person to hold her when she was born.
03:35And I have three children myself.
03:38And when they put her in my arms and I held her, that baby opened her eyes and looked at me.
03:43And it was all seeing, all knowing.
03:47I've never experienced that with my own children.
03:50What's this done to you?
03:52Shocked me.
03:54I love her, him to bits.
03:57That's why I'm here now.
04:00I was supported to the ends of the earth.
04:02I've come...
04:09You've told my team I'm old-fashioned. I wonder if it's a phase.
04:14Um, I have wondered if it's a phase.
04:17Because, um...
04:20Growing up, she had a lot to do with me and I had a lot to do with her.
04:24We did lots of things together.
04:27I even took her to Allthought.
04:29I'm very interested in history.
04:31I told her all about the late Princess Diana.
04:33And we went to Allthought.
04:35And we've done many things like that.
04:37And the old Spencer picked her out.
04:40He went up to her with her long blonde hair, ruffled her hair and said,
04:44''My goodness, you're a beautiful little girl, aren't you?''
04:50And, yes, she was.
04:52Do you see this decision, this change in her lifestyle,
04:56and the dramatic change it is,
04:59as some sort of failure on your behalf?
05:04I worry that when she was upset
05:08and often pleaded with me
05:11to allow her to live with me permanently.
05:14And I often wonder if, at those times,
05:17if I hadn't been a little bit braver and a little bit firmer
05:21and fought harder for her.
05:23God, I love you. I think you're amazing.
05:26APPLAUSE
05:28You remind me of my mum.
05:31No, no, no, no.
05:32You remind me of my mother, absolutely, selflessness.
05:35And I absolutely wanted you to come out
05:37and I absolutely wanted you to be able to be honest.
05:40You worry that she's going to regret this, don't you?
05:43I worry for lots of reasons.
05:46Chloe has been having seizures
05:50since approximately the age of ten,
05:53but not regular, very sporadic seizures.
05:57But I had a son, my firstborn,
06:00and I loved him dearly.
06:02And when he was about ten years old, he had his first seizure.
06:06And they continued throughout his life.
06:09And on and off, periodically,
06:11he'd go a year or more without a seizure.
06:14And when he was 36,
06:16he died in his sleep from sudden death epilepsy.
06:19What do you think that's got to do with her wanting to be...
06:22Well, I'm afraid that the seizures that she's having,
06:26she's going down the same path as her uncle, my son.
06:29And I'm frightened for her.
06:31Would you support her ultimately in whatever decision?
06:33Oh, gosh, yeah. Oh, yes.
06:35I love her to the moon and stars.
06:37APPLAUSE
06:40It's very difficult, but I love her.
06:43I'm looking at Will, cos we've done this before.
06:45She's like your mum, she's like my mum.
06:47I absolutely today wanted...
06:49I don't want anybody to go,
06:51oh, old-fashioned, what does she understand?
06:53It's a different world.
06:55It is a different world.
06:56I'm going to respect Charlie and call Charlie Charlie,
06:59but my nan needs to accept me for who I am today.
07:02I'm doing this with or without her blessing,
07:05but more importantly in my life, I want her blessing.
07:07I've always felt like I was in the wrong body.
07:09Charlie's on the Jeremy Carr Show. Thank you.
07:11APPLAUSE
07:26APPLAUSE
07:30That's some dame there.
07:33How much of a grandmother is she?
07:36A hell of a one, yeah.
07:38I don't know what I'd do without her, if I'm being completely honest.
07:41I really don't.
07:42Do you understand? I mean, I can tell instantly that you do.
07:45Before we talk about you never felt complete,
07:48you bind yourself, all those things.
07:50And I've done this story before,
07:52but I don't think have I ever spoken to somebody like Julie in this instance.
07:57Do you understand her confusion, her lack of understanding,
08:00her fear, her ignorance, whatever you want to call it?
08:03I do, yeah.
08:05We've spoke about it on a number of occasions.
08:08We've spoke about, you know,
08:10she's scared that if I was to go through all this procedure
08:14that, you know, I might regret it afterwards.
08:17We've spoke that she's scared that if I was to go under a knife
08:21and I was on the table that, you know,
08:24something serious could happen whilst under anaesthetic.
08:27We've spoke about all these things.
08:30But at the end of the day, I know that this is what I want to do.
08:34And, you know, if I do die on the table,
08:38at least I know that I was dying whilst becoming who I was meant to be,
08:42you know, and that's all I want, that's all I want.
08:45And more than anything, I want you...
08:48I don't want you to die.
08:50I know, but more than anything, I want you to really...
08:56Like, I want to know that I've definitely got your blessing,
08:59cos I can't go forward and take that next step
09:02without knowing that I've got your blessing,
09:04and I don't want to have to go forward without it and end up losing you.
09:08I really don't.
09:10You'll never lose me, because I'll always be there for you.
09:14I just want to be certain,
09:17and you to be certain more than me,
09:20that you're doing this for the right reasons,
09:24that you're not doing it because you may feel that you missed out,
09:31whereas you didn't.
09:33I want you to do it because you really, with your whole heart and soul,
09:38believe you're a boy.
09:40And I don't care whether you're a boy or the man in the moon,
09:45or you're Chloe, I will always love you unconditionally.
09:48APPLAUSE
09:50I'll tell you what I want to do.
09:54I thought we'd do this slightly differently.
09:56Really great to meet you, and just the way that you talk, I can tell.
09:59You'd have to be pretty stupid to go into something like this
10:03without a huge, huge thought.
10:05Completely by Julie, completely by you.
10:08After the break, though, we've got some guests that you might recognise
10:11who we actually believe, for both of you in separate ways,
10:16will benefit you enormously at this time.
10:18We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.
10:20I'm going to have to say you have to go with what he wishes.
10:24He's hurting, and don't push him away.
10:27As much as, you know, you say that you support me through this,
10:30I don't always feel like you do.
10:33That's the hardest thing that I'm dealing with, with all of this.
10:36It's not the fact of, you know, being out about it,
10:39and, like, people's reactions, it's how you feel about it.
10:47You want to live?
10:48Yes, I do. Why?
10:50I love my family.
10:54I need this more than anything.
10:55I don't want to be anywhere else other than here.
10:57This is the best chance to change your life forever.
11:04And the only way is to go up, and we will help you get there.
11:08Residential rehab is the way forward.
11:11I know.
11:12We want to do our best for you and your family.
11:14I swear to you, this is the best chance.
11:17We will do whatever we have to. Look at me.
11:19I promise you, that is the beginning of the rest of your life.
11:27You are the child's biological father.
11:30Let's get Tom to meet his dad for the first time that way.
11:38If you'd like to appear on the show when you're 16 or over,
11:41then email talk at ITV.com along with your number.
11:44You need to text the word TALK plus your name to 63334.
11:48Text costs 25 pence plus one standard network rate message,
11:51or you can call the team today.
11:52It's 09011.
11:54It's 123456.
11:56Calls cost 25 pence plus your network access charge.
12:08Welcome back. Before the break, Julie and Charlie.
12:10Julie explaining that as Charlie's grandmother, she brought her up.
12:14This girl, Chloe, has become Charlie.
12:17You've talked about, you know, the whole process.
12:20You are... You haven't had any physical changes?
12:24No, I'm still pre-testosterone and everything like that,
12:27but I have done a lot of research into it,
12:29and I am currently on the waiting list for a gender identity clinic.
12:33He looks so switched on.
12:36I speak to a lot of people who I think...
12:39I don't know for what reasons, but when I look at Charlie,
12:43he has your calmness, he has your intelligence, he has your foresight,
12:47and I think that says an awful lot.
12:49I wanted to introduce you to a mother and her son.
12:55Kelly went through exactly the same,
12:58and Luke has gone through this process,
13:01and this mother has some really interesting words, as does Luke.
13:04Kelly and Luke are on the Jeremy Carr Show.
13:06APPLAUSE
13:22Hi, Liam.
13:25How are you? I'm fine, are you? I'm all right.
13:28How are you, Kel? Brilliant.
13:30You heard what Julie was saying, and I think it's really important.
13:33I wanted to say this on today.
13:35I really think her attitude is important to highlight,
13:38because I think it's very easy to hide behind,
13:40oh, that's outrageous, what does she know? She's 60+.
13:43You get where she's coming from, right? Very much so, yes.
13:47But I'm going to have to say, you have to go with what he wishes,
13:51because if he knows what he wants inside,
13:55and you can tell by just looking at him, he's hurting.
14:00He's hurting, and don't push him away.
14:03No, I wouldn't, ever. You know...
14:07It's just so sad.
14:09When did you know that your daughter was maybe boyish?
14:17Probably the age of 11 or 12.
14:22See, that's the difference.
14:24This has only come about...
14:27I know she says not, but then...
14:30How long have you felt like this, Charlie?
14:32A very, very long time.
14:35You know, when I was, you know, 10, 11, I didn't feel quite right.
14:40Why did you never tell your grandmother, the closest person in your life?
14:44Because I wasn't sure if I was correct or not.
14:47And I wanted to make sure that I was dead certain.
14:50You see, you see, Julie, that's intelligent.
14:55That flies completely in the face of what I said,
14:58that I've had, not Luke, but I've had people on this show,
15:02and you do actually think, hold on a minute,
15:04you're doing this for the right reasons.
15:07And I think just because you haven't known about it
15:10for perhaps the last two years, doesn't mean it hasn't been there.
15:14Difficult, though, isn't it, Kelly?
15:16When Luke announced and went through, it was difficult for you.
15:19I remember speaking to you about it.
15:21Very, very difficult.
15:22I feel the emotions that you're going through, listening backstage,
15:25you know, and I feel for you.
15:27But I'm scared that if you don't accept him, you know,
15:32where's it going to be, where's it going to, you know...
15:36I know you say you're going to be there forever for him,
15:39but inside, you don't know his feeling, you can't be inside him.
15:42No, I can't.
15:44But, of course, I'll accept him. I love him unconditionally.
15:47I know, I can see that.
15:49He's my world.
15:51Luke, do you understand where Judy's coming from?
15:53I do, yeah.
15:54Obviously, coming out as transgender, it's a big, like, thing.
16:00And you do just have to, like, obviously accept the person,
16:05ease it deep down.
16:07I've known I was trans since I was about five,
16:09but I only came out to Mum when I was about 11, 12.
16:13Because, obviously, you are scared of coming out to your parents
16:16or people who are looking after you.
16:19And I've also been through the suicide stage,
16:22and that's why I've come here today,
16:24because I don't want Charlie to be in the same boat as I was.
16:26That's what Kelly's, I think, pinpointing,
16:29that if the person isn't allowed to be the person,
16:32for whatever reason, and I'm not blaming you, by the way,
16:35I'm not against you, I've said that all along,
16:37society, pressure, family, whatever, embarrassment, depression,
16:41suicidal thoughts, those are the fears, right?
16:43Yeah, definitely.
16:45Charlie, you've got questions as well, haven't you?
16:47Yeah.
16:49Obviously, when I came out about it, I wasn't...
16:52I was very, shall we say, scared.
16:54How did you kind of, like, deal with it?
16:56How did you deal with people's reactions?
16:59I didn't, basically.
17:01I got bullied, I got pushed down corridors and stuff,
17:04but you just face it, and at the end of the day,
17:07you are who you are, you're born this way.
17:10But my family, they have been quite supportive,
17:12so I've been lucky that way.
17:15So I haven't really experienced any difficult situations.
17:18I guess the thing that comes out in all of this is,
17:21life's hard enough, it's short enough, it's precious enough,
17:24we have to be who we want to be and love who we want to love
17:28and be with who we want to be with, don't we?
17:30APPLAUSE
17:36The process is a very thorough process,
17:39and a process that involves huge, huge counselling and work on whatever.
17:43I get the distinct impression, Jules, that, for Charlie,
17:47he wants you to be part of that.
17:49In fact, you are the most important...
17:51Is she the most important thing in your life?
17:53By far. I mean, she is the only family that I have left.
17:56That's amazing.
17:57You know, she's stuck by me through thick and thin,
18:00but as much as, you know, you say that you support me through this,
18:04I don't always feel like you do.
18:07And that's the hardest thing that I'm dealing with, with all of this.
18:11It's not the fact of, you know, being out about it,
18:15and, like, people's reactions, it's how you feel about it.
18:18And I don't want to let you down.
18:20You don't let me down. I know, but I feel if I was to go through this
18:24and, you know, you're not 100% in my corner
18:29and you're not calling me my name
18:32and you're not calling me my right pronouns,
18:35that I feel like I'm going to let you down.
18:37And I don't want to have to feel like that.
18:39I don't want to have to carry on going forward with this, all of this.
18:43Can I jump in for a reason?
18:45And I'm not, I'm just being totally honest,
18:47and everybody will say, well, you've nailed your colours to a man.
18:50I don't think there's much more that she can do,
18:53a nice, classy, 63-year-old woman,
18:56than come on The Jeremy Carr Show to support you.
18:58And I think, and get your desire for tolerance,
19:01don't know what you think,
19:03but I think there has to be tolerance on both sides
19:05and I think you have to be patient to allow Julie
19:08to get to a point where she understands it and embraces it.
19:11And I think today is part of that process
19:13and I think it's a case of communication,
19:16but I really want you to try and understand
19:18how difficult this is for Julie
19:20and for Julie to understand how difficult this is for you.
19:22That's what I think.
19:24It does take time, it does.
19:26And like you say, with the pronouns, even now I get it wrong.
19:29And he'll go, Mum!
19:31You know, but it does come with time, but...
19:35We talked last time as well, you grieve.
19:37You know, I've had families of transgender
19:39and they've said, you know, you have to grieve,
19:41you lost your little girl, you lost your little boy.
19:43But I think we hold on to the fact that it is about...
19:46It's a far-off sound.
19:48Oh!
19:55You're a pretty little girl, but you're a handsome young man too.
19:58I knew, I knew.
20:00God, you are my mother.
20:02A pretty little girl, but a handsome young man too.
20:05APPLAUSE
20:07What I'm going to ask is,
20:09we'd like the four of you to spend a bit of time backstage
20:13and impart some of your wisdom.
20:15Really, really appreciate it. Guys, always lovely to see you.
20:17Thank you, Charlie.
20:19And Julie, such honesty, really candid.
20:22Thank you all very much.
20:23Would the four of you like to go that way?
20:25Give them a round of applause. Thank you.
20:27CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
20:30CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
20:35Good afternoon, Ryan.
20:36My next guest today, Louise, says that she's utterly convinced
20:39her fiancé has been cheating.
20:40She says that just weeks ago she found flirty messages
20:43between her fiancé Peter and two other women,
20:45one of whom he asked for a threesome.
20:48CHEERING
20:49Louise says that she has been left devastated...
20:53Thank you, madam.
20:54..by the revelations,
20:55especially because she's currently pregnant with their first child.
20:58Louise may have done a lot more than just sexting
21:00and says that if he's been cheating, the engagement is off.
21:03What the hell's sexting?
21:04Louise is on the Jeremy Carr Show That Way.
21:06CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
21:13Are you all right?
21:14I don't know why I ask people if they're all right,
21:16cos if you're all right, you wouldn't be here.
21:18Well, you're not all right. Bless your heart.
21:20Now, you've been with Peter for 11 months.
21:22Yeah.
21:23Engaged for a month.
21:24Yeah.
21:25And that's as a starting... And you're pregnant?
21:27Two weeks. Planned.
21:28Right. Planned? Yeah.
21:30Now, you get engaged a month ago,
21:32but before that, you discovered messages.
21:34So why did you get engaged to him?
21:36No, I got engaged to him before I knew about the messages.
21:38What did you...?
21:39The messages were sent basically a few months into our relationship,
21:42but, um...
21:44You didn't find them until after...?
21:46I didn't find them until a few weeks after we got engaged,
21:48so, to me, it's new information.
21:49What did you discover?
21:50Because you say, we went to school together.
21:52This is brilliant.
21:54Tell them where you reunited.
21:56At the car boot sale.
22:00I hate cars.
22:01Sounds romantic, right?
22:02He gave me... This is brilliant.
22:04Two free Belgian buns.
22:07Bless him.
22:09I love Belgian buns.
22:10I don't know why we're having this conversation.
22:13No, actually, he bugged you a bit, didn't he, to go out?
22:16Or did you bug him?
22:18Um, I would say I rang him,
22:20because he gave me his phone number straight away after the car boot.
22:23If you give a woman two Belgian buns, you are wanting something bad.
22:28Um, it was a few months later I got in contact with him
22:31and we started talking, went round.
22:33We were, say, friends for a little while,
22:36but then he waited three weeks to ask me out for Valentine's Day.
22:43You love this man, don't you?
22:45With all my heart.
22:47The relationship has been perfect.
22:49He treated me to dates, I felt like a princess.
22:52And then, from nowhere, he made this suggestion about,
22:55could we have a baby? It was his suggestion, it was planned.
22:58You felt this was a great idea and everything was good.
23:01It took me a month and a half of convincing.
23:03Because we'd been together such a short time,
23:05I wanted to make sure that things, even though the relationship felt right,
23:09I didn't want to rush into anything.
23:11I like you very much, you're very, very good.
23:13Um, you found these messages.
23:16Yeah.
23:17Where, how, what did they say?
23:19Well, he uses my Facebook to contact his family.
23:21We have our own Facebook accounts, basically,
23:24and I, um, one day I thought, well, he's left his Facebook open.
23:28I just had a little nosy, I had no reason to doubt him,
23:31and I found a couple of messages to a girl.
23:34He made a little joke saying about some sex toys and a threesome,
23:38and he's like, no, no, no, I didn't mean me have a threesome.
23:41You don't know what to think, you're pregnant, you're in love,
23:44it took you a while to agree to this engagement.
23:46You say, it's disgusting, I'm 50...
23:49You are 50-50 that this boy's cheated?
23:51Well, he used to accuse me, but I've never really given him any doubt.
23:54I've been honest with you producers, but that's another show.
23:56I've never actually properly cheated on him.
23:58It's not just this one woman, is there? There's somebody else.
24:01Yeah, he had a friend, they had a date a few years ago, kissed,
24:05um, didn't feel right, they went their separate ways after,
24:08you know, went to the movie.
24:10And he confided in her about our relationship,
24:13and that I didn't mind as a friend,
24:17but the problem is it matters to me
24:19when you're talking about my personal life.
24:21What was he talking about?
24:23He was basically talking about what time I woke up, um, sleeping,
24:27what I wear make-up for work, how, um...
24:30And me. I used to have, um...
24:35I thought you said a fat belly.
24:37I was like, well, you've done very well, love.
24:40I'll have a fat belly soon. Right.
24:42Um, no, it was before I got with him.
24:44A Friday nighter?
24:46No, I'd say more of a Thursday. I'm joking.
24:50Right, anyway, back to the story.
24:52I'm 50-50, he's cheated, I don't trust him, he acts suspicious,
24:55and our sex life's gone down the carsie.
24:57Uh, yeah, sex life, we don't have it as much anymore.
25:00I'm just... You're pregnant, he's probably trying to be...
25:03I'm just, um... I'm 50-50, right,
25:05because I can name you, like, basically five things what he's done.
25:09He's basically told her about our sex life, all right.
25:12He's made out like I'm some control freak,
25:14like, stops him from seeing his friends,
25:16just cos we went up to see her and he didn't see her.
25:19I paid for the trip, he told her that he paid for the meal,
25:22and he didn't. Um...
25:24How can I put this?
25:25He's basically told her about personal things,
25:27about my work life and stuff.
25:29He's also, um... He's told her that he's got a thing for her.
25:32He said, oh, they both said, it's a shame we don't live...
25:35He says he's got a soft spot for her.
25:37So, you're 11 weeks pregnant, you're in love with this guy,
25:40he's come to do a lie detector, we're going to break,
25:42he's coming out, he's going to do the results.
25:44Look me in the eyes, do you think he's going to fail?
25:46Um, 50-50.
25:47What if he does fail, sweetheart? You're bringing this child up alone.
25:50Well, I'll never stop him from seeing his baby, I believe that's wrong.
25:53But you'd be a single mum, it's all over.
25:55What can I say, um... Well, yes or no.
25:57My perfect family dream would be shattered, yeah.
25:59And interestingly with you, you said it took time.
26:02He will be here, Peter, let's not prejudge him,
26:04and those all-important lie detector results are the next,
26:06we'll be right back, don't go anywhere.
26:08A lot of audience think that Peter's a cheat.
26:10Quite a few hands there.
26:12Since the start of your relationship with Louise,
26:14have you had sexual intercourse with anyone else?
26:16We asked Pete, he said no, why'd you say no?
26:21Have you got a jealous partner?
26:23Are you the one that cannot control your jealousy?
26:26If you're 16 or over and you want to be considered for the show,
26:29text the word TALK TODAY plus your name to 63334,
26:32text cost 25 pence plus one standard rate message.
26:35If you want to join my team today, it's 09011, it's 123456,
26:40cost 25 pence plus your network access charge,
26:43or email TALKATITV.COM to get in touch with one of my team.
26:56Welcome back, we're speaking to Louise.
26:58Maybe you get the answers that you want,
27:00it could just be that people are stirring it,
27:02maybe he's just been a bit of an idiot.
27:04I don't have a serious girlfriend, she's the only woman for me.
27:07I'd never cheated on her. I did text girls.
27:09I was letting off steam.
27:11I'm going to show this woman I love her.
27:13She was moaning at me at the time.
27:15Basically, he says he made a mistake, it didn't become physical,
27:18and he loves you and today he will prove,
27:20and I hope for you, because you're a nice lady,
27:22that you get what you want. Shall we get him out?
27:24Yes, please.
27:25Pete is on the Jeremy Carl show that way.
27:27CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
27:35How are you, Pete? Yeah, I'm good.
27:37Welcome to the show.
27:39I did sex text. What does that mean, sex text, sex text?
27:45Basically talking sexual to another woman through text.
27:48Why would you do that when you've got this woman at home?
27:51I didn't intend that to happen, to be honest.
27:54Would you like a threesome?
27:56I meant to say, how's the weather where you live?
28:00What do you mean, you didn't expect that to happen?
28:03The conversation started off normal,
28:05but then they started talking like this.
28:08Oh, they dragged you into it?
28:10No, I'm not saying I shouldn't have done what I've done.
28:13You told my team that Louise was constantly nagging you.
28:16What was she nagging you about?
28:19At this point, it's just about...
28:22Helping in the house, really.
28:24Like, helping me with, like, cleaning up the place and stuff.
28:27Welcome to reality, mate.
28:29She moaned at you about the ironing and the cleaning and whatever.
28:32William, has that ever happened to you?
28:34Oh, no, you've never lived with somebody, you're a commitment phobe.
28:37Anyway, back to the story.
28:39The conversation escalated to sex, but I feel bad about that.
28:43The problem is, you say, that she's insecure.
28:46Yeah?
28:48What better way to treat an insecure woman than sex text some other women?
28:52Fantastic. You haven't got much to say, have you?
28:55Did she cheat?
28:57No, I didn't. I admit...
28:59I shouldn't have done the texts, OK? I admit that.
29:02She's pregnant, mate. You wanted her to be pregnant. She's desperately...
29:06I'm going to step up to be a decent person for that.
29:09If I can't have him, and he fails to slide a text in a day,
29:12at least I know this child that we planned, at least I'll have a part of him.
29:15You've deleted Facebook completely now.
29:17Yeah, because it's just ruined our...
29:19Yeah, but that makes her feel suspicious, I suspect, right?
29:22Is that right? Look at what this is doing to her.
29:24I know.
29:26I love this man.
29:29I love Louise as well, with all my heart, like she said.
29:32Shall we do the results? Lovely, that, wasn't it?
29:35I've got questions that were asked of Peter, the answers that he gave,
29:38and whether he was telling the truth,
29:40and I hope people in this lovely audience think that Peter's a cheat.
29:43Quite a few hands there.
29:47Are you all right, both? I'm all right. I'm just a bit nervous, that's all.
29:50How many of you thought he cheated?
29:54Since the start of your relationship with Louise,
29:56have you had sexual intercourse with anyone else, we asked Pete.
29:58You said no. Why did you say no? Because I'm telling the truth.
30:01Your boyfriend was telling the truth.
30:09Since the start of your relationship with Louise,
30:11have you had sexual contact with anyone else?
30:13He said no, because he was telling the truth.
30:18Lou, you watch this every day, yeah?
30:21What is it? A full house.
30:23He passed every single question.
30:26APPLAUSE
30:34Difficult time for you with the baby, difficult time.
30:36You made a mistake. Everybody makes mistakes.
30:38You all right, pal? Yeah. Thank you.
30:40Listen, you came here really, really nice to meet you,
30:42and enjoy what should be a great time, all right?
30:45Enjoy the baby, enjoy each other. Thanks for coming on.
30:47Get out of here. Give them a round of applause.
30:49CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
30:55Good luck to them.
30:56Right, my next guest today, Sophia, is here,
30:58and she's convinced her partner, Jason, is a cheater.
31:00In other words, she says she's found messages from another woman
31:03to him which he responds with kisses at the end.
31:06She also says that just two hours after they broke up last week,
31:10he went to another woman's house and stayed the night.
31:12He says he stayed on the sofa. She thinks he was somewhere else.
31:15He said if he fails the lie detector, she says, it's over.
31:18Does she really say that? Does she mean it?
31:20Sophia's on The Jeremy Carl Show. That way!
31:22CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
31:25How are you?
31:27How are you? You've been with him a year!
31:29Yeah. Do you love him? Yeah, I do, yeah.
31:31Well, you didn't until you found out.
31:33Well, anyway, right, let's talk about this.
31:35You've been with him a year. How do you meet?
31:37Well, I've known him for years.
31:39I lived in a mother and baby unit,
31:42and basically he lived next door in the flat with his ex-missus.
31:48Do you feel like this man rescued you?
31:50Yeah, cos he's definitely changed and, yeah, changed me.
31:54Now, probably because of that, and I'm not being disrespectful,
31:58there are many reasons why people feel insecure,
32:00but after a few months, things started to change a little bit,
32:03the dynamic. What happened, darling?
32:06Always on his phone. Phone was on silent.
32:10Turned the blame onto me with cheating.
32:14You know, accusing me, basically,
32:17trying to put me down a little bit now and again.
32:20There were messages with kisses at the end?
32:22There was messages with kisses,
32:24and he'd had a sexual relationship before,
32:27and the both women that he went to,
32:30obviously, when he went to the houses,
32:32he'd slept with them both previously, before me anyway.
32:35So when he stayed on the sofa with the woman?
32:37Yeah, he claims he was just on the sofa and he was just on his phone,
32:41but that's what I'm here for today, to find out.
32:44He says that's a bit rich from you.
32:46You go so far as to have men that you've slept with round to your flat.
32:49No, I don't. I've got a little girl, I'm a full-time mum.
32:54You know, I love him, but bye's the bye.
32:56I don't even have the time for that, because, you know...
32:59But he's lying about that?
33:01Yeah, he is. I do talk to men,
33:03but, you know, I don't change my Facebook password, he has.
33:07I don't even know what that means.
33:09I want to marry Jason, but if he fails the lie detector,
33:13I can't be with this guy. Is he the father of your baby?
33:16No, he's done a really good job. He's brought her up, so...
33:20How old is she? She's two and a half.
33:22You love him? Yeah. So you want him to pass?
33:25Yeah, my little girl loves him.
33:27When you went up to him and you went,
33:29you know, I've seen these messages, how does he react?
33:32Does he look guilty? Does he...?
33:34He just says, well, I can't, I talk to a female,
33:36and the messages are obviously a little bit more, to me,
33:39suspicious of if it's just a mate.
33:41Is that because he's done it in your mind before
33:43or because you're doing the dirty behind his back,
33:45and it's your conscience speaking?
33:47I've been cheated lots of times before, so it's partly my feelings,
33:51but I think something's gone on, so...
33:53If I was to say to you, lie detector-wise,
33:55how sure are you that he's going to fail, percentage-wise?
34:0080%. 80% sure he's going to fail.
34:02Very interesting statistic. You wait.
34:04Our next contestant is on the Jeremy Carl Show. That way.
34:1480% you're going to fail.
34:16I don't think so, mate. All right, mate?
34:18Yeah, mate. How's it going?
34:20Not too bad, how are you, Jez? Jez, that's nice.
34:22I'm all right, don't worry about me, nobody usually does.
34:24I can't wait to prove her wrong.
34:26That's what I'm here for.
34:28You didn't lie on the sofa, did you? You jumped in the sack with her.
34:31We'll soon find out in a minute.
34:33This other woman? Yes.
34:35Why did you go there? Cos I didn't want to go that night.
34:38It's my friend, I've asked her, she said,
34:40come on, I slept on the sofa. Did you tell her straight away?
34:43I've told her, yes. What about these, she says no,
34:45but does she have male mates round to her...?
34:47Yes, she does. And she has slept with them.
34:49One's gay, by the way.
34:51Maybe if they're gay, I can't mention names,
34:53but I've asked you before, have you slept with them?
34:55You said no, six months on the line, you tell me.
34:57That was years ago, we're going back about three years ago.
35:00I've asked you when we got together, you still said no,
35:03six months on the line, you tell me.
35:05No, that was about three years ago.
35:08She needs to understand that just because she's been cheated on
35:12in the past, not all guys are the same.
35:14I love this woman and I respect her enough not to ever cheat on her.
35:18That's correct.
35:20Why is that not enough for you? Look at him.
35:23That's nice and it is very fair and often.
35:26I love him to bits and he's fantastic, he's done a great job.
35:29He says he wants to marry you but you need to stop mithering.
35:32I'm only mithering because I've seen the messages and then...
35:35Oh, right, hold on a second.
35:37You put a kiss at the end of a text message?
35:39Yes, and she does it with her friends as well.
35:41Graham does it with me!
35:43I've got the screenshots and obviously that's just...
35:46All right, mate, are you OK, mate, with a kiss? Is that flirting?
35:49Do you send kisses to girls that you're not in a relationship with,
35:52girl mates?
35:54How many people would send a text message to a friend,
35:57a good friend with a kiss at the end of the opposite sex,
35:59and think that was OK?
36:01You send me text messages with kisses on, don't you, Graham?
36:04Yeah.
36:06It doesn't mean that... At least he admitted it.
36:08It doesn't mean that there's anything untoward.
36:10I look at this guy and I'm trying to work out why you don't trust him.
36:13Cos it was hours after we'd split up and when he...
36:16Had nowhere to go, it was Friday the 13th, she threw him out.
36:19He left his Facebook logged in my phone,
36:21didn't think I'd read those messages,
36:23so he would have planned to go to this girl's house
36:25without me knowing anyway because he knows how I feel about her.
36:28So this isn't something like just a normal mate,
36:30this is who he's had a sexual relationship with.
36:33Have you ever cheated on him? No.
36:35Have you ever cheated on her at all?
36:37And I was even saying if I needed to come back for a lie detector,
36:40I would, to prove my innocence just as much as he is.
36:43I don't know, and I could be wider than that,
36:45but I'm pretty, pretty convinced, and if you let me down,
36:48I will batter you verbally just so you're away.
36:50I'm pretty convinced this goes back to when you had the dirty done on you.
36:54How many people in this audience think that he's going to pass?
36:58Pass.
37:01Yeah.
37:02What happens if he's failed?
37:04Devastated and we'll have to figure it out for the little girl,
37:08won't we, as well as ourselves, so...
37:12If he passes, will you let go of the past?
37:16Yeah, I'll have to get my trust together.
37:18It was 1st February last year, have you had sexual intercourse
37:21with anyone other than Sophia?
37:23My girlfriend said no, I'd say no.
37:25Tell her the truth.
37:26Of course he's telling the truth.
37:34I have to say, the coolest man we've ever had in a lie detector
37:38has not even broken sweat past every single question.
37:44What's that?
37:45Calm down.
37:47I'll tell you the truth, don't I?
37:49I'm not lying.
37:51From the start, I'm not a cheater, I've never been a cheater.
37:54You can't have feelings when you've had it done before.
37:56Yes, that's a pass. Everyone's got a difference.
37:58Do you know what I mean? But I'm not a cheater, Sophia.
38:00Well, you've committed 20% and I apologise.
38:02I told you this, yeah, 20%, I'm going to fail.
38:04Oh, that 20%, just, well, I don't know what to say, mate.
38:07APPLAUSE
38:09I want you to win back, obviously, your life's in danger,
38:12for two of her points.
38:13Can you get past your frustration cos you've proved your innocence?
38:16I know for a fact I weren't a cheater, so...
38:18Why do you think she is, then?
38:21I'm being completely... She hasn't.
38:23I'm not saying she hasn't, it's just the lies, Jezza.
38:25No, no, I get that, but can I just say something?
38:27Do come back, we're more than welcome to that,
38:29but I just, for me, it's really simple.
38:31Some people can spend their lives in relationships,
38:33moaning and bitching and looking for problems and making problems,
38:36and why don't you just go and get on with your lives and be happy?
38:39Because I can tell you categorically,
38:41by all means, come back, she ain't cheated, he hasn't cheated,
38:43you've got a good chance here, just take the most of it, you know?
38:46There's a lot of people that don't have that opportunity, yeah?
38:48By all means, bring you back, well done for coming on,
38:50thank you very much indeed, go together, all right?
38:57You say I've had doubts since I was a teenager
38:59as to whether Josephine's your full sister, right?
39:01Yeah.
39:02You feel like you don't belong, and that led you to change your name?
39:05Yeah.
39:06Why?
39:07Just felt like I wasn't part of the family any more.
39:09The DNA test has got to show that Robert and Josephine,
39:12we've done a sibling DNA test, difficult one to do, very thorough.
39:19So this just in, and it's breaking news this morning, apparently, Graham,
39:23something big is happening in Media City.
39:25Yeah, let's find out what's happening from our weatherman.
39:27There's a storm brewing, Mr Kyle.
39:34Good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
39:42You've been...
39:45Come on, Bob!
39:48Get out of my studio, get in there.
39:54Get off him, get off him.
39:55I'm bringing him up.
39:57Come here, come here, come here.
40:01Hi.
40:04Get away, get away.
40:08You're on stage now.
40:12Don't you dare!
40:18No!
40:34It's the UK's most controversial talk show.
40:37We've been waiting a year and a half for this.
40:39Cannot wait.
40:41An internet sensation.
40:44Thank you very much.
40:53Thank you, Jeremy.
40:54Raw emotion.
40:56Is my daughter having an affair with my husband?
40:59I have never seen anything like that in my life.
41:02Explosive results.
41:04No, she's there, the other side of the door.
41:06I'll sit with his best friend, yeah, yeah.
41:08Hey, Tom, Dickie, how are you?
41:10Absolutely outrageous.
41:12Light-changing moments.
41:15I don't want you on this show, so why don't you do one, then?
41:20All at 9.25.
41:22What did you just call me? Stand up.
41:24This lady found out James is now living as a woman.
41:37Unmissable TV.
41:40Do you need to find out who is the father of the baby?
41:43Do you need that all-important DNA test?
41:46If you're 18 or over and you want to be considered for the show,
41:48text the word TALK today, plus your name, to 63334.
41:51The text costs 25 pence, plus one standard rate message.
41:54You can call my team today.
41:56It's 09011, it's 123456.
41:59Calls cost 25 pence, plus your network access charge.
42:02Or email TALK at itv.com to get in touch with one of my team.
42:09APPLAUSE
42:15Thank you very much indeed. Welcome back.
42:17My next guest today, Robert, says that after years of doubt,
42:19he needs to find out whether Josephine,
42:21the woman he was raised to believe was his sister,
42:23is in fact a full or half-sibling.
42:25Robert says that he looks nothing like anybody else in his family
42:28and he feels as though he's been pushed out all his life.
42:30He says his and Josephine's relationship has completely broken down
42:34and he blames her for not making more of an effort with him
42:38An emotional day, a big day.
42:40Robert is on The Jeremy Carl Show. That way.
42:42APPLAUSE
42:48Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming on.
42:5135. Yeah.
42:53I changed my name by deed poll because I'm sure we have different dads.
42:57You say I've had doubts since I was a teenager
42:59as to whether Josephine's your full sister, right? Yeah.
43:02You say...
43:04See, what you're saying is completely different to where
43:06you say your relationship with her has broken down completely.
43:08She says, I don't know what he's talking about.
43:10You say I've had a weird feeling, like there's no connection.
43:12You think you're mixed race.
43:14That's correct, yeah.
43:15Cos I've been told I've got a bit of mixed race in me.
43:18I have big, bushy afro hair.
43:20Yeah. When it does grow, yeah.
43:22She's small and stocky. I'm tall and thin.
43:25Yeah.
43:26Steve and I are brothers and he's very tall and chunky.
43:28I'm 50-50 as to whether we're related.
43:31You looked at baby photos. I see no similarities.
43:33What were you told growing up?
43:35You were obviously with her. You were brought up with her.
43:37Why now? Why 35 years of age?
43:39I wasn't told directly.
43:42It's just the way that I was always felt.
43:45How?
43:46The way I was being pushed out sometimes,
43:48on days out at the park.
43:51Things like interaction with the family, family parties.
43:54It just felt like sometimes I was there, sometimes I wasn't.
43:58Your dad died 10, 12 years ago
44:01and you say from that point the family distanced themselves from you.
44:04Yeah.
44:05And that's another reason why you would feel the way that you do.
44:08You feel like you don't belong.
44:10And that led you to change your name.
44:12Yeah.
44:13Why?
44:14It just felt like I wasn't part of the family anymore.
44:16That's quite sad.
44:17Because there wasn't no contact there.
44:20There wasn't coming round to see me.
44:23If I tried to contact them by phone or anything like that,
44:26sometimes...
44:27Is that you and your dad?
44:28Yeah, that's me and my dad, yeah.
44:30There's just no resemblance there whatsoever.
44:34LAUGHTER
44:36Go and stand next to that photo a minute of your dad.
44:42No, that's not your dad, that's you, isn't it?
44:46The absolute spitting, bloody image of your dad.
44:49I don't think that.
44:50Absolutely. Is he not the spitting image of his dad?
44:53Yeah.
44:54Now, Michael, Mo's Michael...
44:56He's my brother.
44:58He says, growing up I had a great relationship with my brother,
45:01we never even ever spoke about him having any doubts.
45:03In fact, his doubts have come as a huge shock.
45:05I know my brother always felt different
45:07as he believes he has different build and he has afro curly hair
45:10when we all had straight hair.
45:12This can happen. My brother's being silly.
45:14But I really hope he gets peace of mind today.
45:16I'm 100% sure he's my biological brother
45:18and regardless of the result, nothing will change between us.
45:21We'll always be brothers and I hope we can put this behind us
45:23and get the result that he wants.
45:25But, you know, I've said it before, I'll say it again,
45:27on this show people have gut feelings, they have concerns
45:29and they need to deal with them. This is massive for you.
45:31Josephine says, my brother seems to want a DNA all of a sudden,
45:35he thinks he's a different dad. It's totally and utterly crazy.
45:38Josephine's on the Jeremy Carr Show, that way.
45:40APPLAUSE
45:50Josephine, welcome to the show.
45:52Although I look at Robert and I put him next to a picture of your dad,
45:56do you have doubts?
45:58No.
45:59None whatsoever? No.
46:01I've always been like, since Robert's had these doubts,
46:05I've been 80% sure that he's my full brother.
46:0780%? So you do have doubts?
46:09Just a little bit.
46:11Because in some of the pictures,
46:14there isn't any similarities between him and the rest of us.
46:18He says, and it's for you to say this, Robert, not really me,
46:22he feels pushed out. Tell her.
46:25Yeah, I just feel like, you know, when you've got parties and stuff like that,
46:29I've looked at photos and I'm not even in them photos.
46:33I just feel like I'm being pushed out all the time.
46:35Well, if you've ever pushed out, I've never intended to do that.
46:39Did you ever tell your dad your doubts? No.
46:42So for you, there's just all of this stuff swirling around in your head
46:46and you're not sure. No.
46:48Josephine, you say, no matter what happens today,
46:52he'll always be my brother. Yeah.
46:54He'll need and get that closure.
46:57But you say you understand how nervous he must be
46:59and how difficult this must be for him. Yeah, I do.
47:02Sounds crazy, pal, but if you've got something like that in your head,
47:05in many instances you have to deal with it.
47:07At least you've come to the right place and we can get the definitive.
47:1035 years. If you were asked, you know,
47:12when do you remember starting to have these thoughts?
47:15I'd say about four months ago.
47:18And, you know, got to deal with it, right? Yeah.
47:21Shall we do it?
47:2335 years, you want to know if Josephine and Michael are full siblings.
47:27You OK? Difficult, right?
47:29Really, really easy for everybody else to go,
47:31what are you talking about? I don't know.
47:35The DNA test results show that Robert and Josephine,
47:38we've done a sibling DNA test.
47:40Difficult one to do. Very thorough.
47:44You are full siblings.
47:46CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
47:58I can see what that means.
48:01I think you need to go to Specsavers, pal,
48:03cos you and your dad are absolute twins. You all right, happy?
48:06Yeah, very. Very happy.
48:08Does that sort of put a ceiling on it, that puts closure on everything, right?
48:11Yeah, finally. Really pleased that you came here.
48:13Why did you push him out? I don't intend to push him out.
48:15What do you have done? It's all your fault,
48:17so make sure he feels better, cos he's your brother, all right? Yeah.
48:20Big smile. Get out of here. Give him a round of applause.
48:22CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
48:24Nice to end my answer this morning out of time.
48:26Don't forget, if you want to be here, you need my help.
48:28Visit my website. The details are on screen to the guest,
48:30to the audience and to you at home.
48:32Thanks for watching. We'll see you very soon.
48:34Take care, but bye for now. Thank you.
48:36CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
48:50THEME MUSIC