Drake Maye's hidden progress, Pats-Eagles notes and a Matt Judon theory | Pats Interference
After reviewing the film of the Patriots' preseason loss to the Eagles, Andrew shares where Drake Maye is making progress, how close he is to the starting job and hands out game balls. Later, he answers your mailbag questions and shares a theory about how the Matt Judon saga came to a close.
0:00 - Intro
2:05 - Key plays analysis
4:41 - Quarterback starting timeline
7:01 - Jacoby Brissett's performance
10:39 - Offensive line struggles
12:25 - Maye's performance review
14:06 - Offensive line concerns
15:39 - Defensive tackle struggles
17:20 - Special teams emphasis
19:40 - Mailbag questions answered
22:59 - Player size concerns
25:03 - Quarterback timeline discussion
27:29 - Tackles market analysis
29:14 - Development plan working
33:56 - Judon trade analysis
36:15 - Sacrificing today for tomorrow
40:20 - Time is beauty of rebuild
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0:00 - Intro
2:05 - Key plays analysis
4:41 - Quarterback starting timeline
7:01 - Jacoby Brissett's performance
10:39 - Offensive line struggles
12:25 - Maye's performance review
14:06 - Offensive line concerns
15:39 - Defensive tackle struggles
17:20 - Special teams emphasis
19:40 - Mailbag questions answered
22:59 - Player size concerns
25:03 - Quarterback timeline discussion
27:29 - Tackles market analysis
29:14 - Development plan working
33:56 - Judon trade analysis
36:15 - Sacrificing today for tomorrow
40:20 - Time is beauty of rebuild
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Transcript
00:00All right, it is late Friday, so it's time to bring back an oldie but goodie, solo episodes,
00:17a lot of film talk.
00:18You know what this means.
00:20Andrew drinks alone and talks to himself.
00:23We have Estella here coming off a preseason game.
00:26Preseason film is rough.
00:27If we're being honest, we're all very happy to see the football.
00:29I'm excited that Drake May played well.
00:31You're probably more excited than I am.
00:34Not that interested in studying the finite minutiae of everything that went on really
00:39in the fourth quarter of that game.
00:40I did it.
00:41It's my job.
00:42I love football.
00:43I'm also ready for the real version.
00:44Now, the little glimpse that we did get after Tuesday's joint practice, talked about that
00:48plenty last week with Doug, was good.
00:52Drake May, impressed.
00:54He got to play with the starting offensive line.
00:56I think the heavens opened up and there was a big, giant pair of hands that came down
01:00and said, thank you, from above, from every dead Patriots fan to Gerard Mayo, thank you
01:04for protecting him, our future, and our franchise, and all our hopes and dreams.
01:08Now, Drake May, it's funny, when you look at the stat sheet, 6 of 11, 47 yards, 3 rushes.
01:16They docked him for the bad snap, 1 rush, negative 5 yards.
01:19Let's skip that.
01:20Really, 3 rushes for 20 yards and a touchdown.
01:23His longest completion was a 23-yard screen.
01:27This is a dude who went 5 of 10 outside of that screen for 24 yards, and here we are
01:32all celebrating that he had this miraculous day and is ready to seize a job.
01:38But you know what?
01:39We're right, because this was a great game from Drake May, and it's funny, I will tell
01:43you exactly why right now, and it wasn't just that he launched the ball on a dime to Javon
01:49Baker, 48 yards downfield, and had this nice progression read that led to a connection
01:53with Baker for 12 yards, his longest actual downfield completion.
01:56It was the little details that happened before each of those plays that says to me, he can
02:02start earlier than I expected, and here's why.
02:05Drake May, let's start with the first play.
02:07It was on his first drive, 3rd down, 3rd and 6th, he just scrambled for 5 yards.
02:12He's got 2 receivers to the right, 2 receivers to the left.
02:15He takes the shotgun snap, looks to the right.
02:17He's got a little high-low combination, 2 out-breaking routes, the Eagles are in mid-coverage,
02:21both of these are cover.
02:23So he goes from read 1 to read 2, back to 3.
02:26This is a backside dig, a very common route where the front side of wherever the play
02:31is designed to be man or zone coverage gives you an option on the backside because the
02:35dig is good, it's an in-breaking route, generally against man.
02:38If it's a 2-high structure, the middle of the field is often open, you're talking about
02:41middle of the field open with 2, it's closed if there's a single high safety, and you can
02:45hit him over the middle, and it also threads the needle between 2nd and 3rd level defenders.
02:49Backside dig is very popular in the NFL.
02:51He looks to Baker, not only finds him as the 3rd read, but resets his feet and delivers
02:57the ball within 2.5 seconds and gets the first down.
03:01This was a throw he made as Baker broke off on his route, it was one after he had gotten
03:06to, after going 1 to 2, and as I said, resetting his platform in the pocket, something that's
03:10a little different for Drake May, who's very accustomed to just throwing the ball wherever
03:14he wants because that's a God-given talent that he has in his right shoulder and his
03:18right arm.
03:19Good, fundamental quarterbacking from him.
03:22Next play, the Baker bomb.
03:23This one, I'm just going to say drop.
03:24Man, if it hits you in the hands, if it hits you in the arms, that's a drop.
03:283rd quarter, another 3rd down, he's looking deep for Baker.
03:32It's another pressure, so he gets the ball unloaded deep, has other options, finds him
03:36deep.
03:37May drops back from under center, excuse me, no it was a shotgun, and he has pressure immediately
03:44to his right.
03:45I'm a big fan of Robinson, big fan of Lane Robinson, but today he gave up on this particular
03:49snap a hurry.
03:50May keeps his eyes downfield.
03:52He slides a little bit left in the pocket, looks back right to Baker, then steps up and
03:57very casually, effortlessly drops this bomb to him all the way downfield.
04:02This was not just avoiding pressure and a possible bad consequence, right?
04:06A sack, a hurry, a hit, whatever it was.
04:09It was keeping your eyes downfield, the kind of courage required of all quarterbacks, and
04:12then delivering a pinpoint pass in a way that I don't think any of us watching Patriots
04:16football the last five years could have imagined unless Billy Zappi or Mac Jones had taken
04:21kind of a crop step and launched with their full body to get the ball that far downfield.
04:26Meanwhile, it's a flick of the wrist for Drake May.
04:28So we were all impressed with the throw, but it was his ability to reset, adjust to pressure,
04:34flip his feet and go through reads in both instances that to me made me optimistic.
04:39Now this all said, you want to know how quickly he can start?
04:42I said it'll be earlier than I expected.
04:44Heading into the week, I would have still said peg around Thanksgiving, maybe it's early
04:47November.
04:48No one really knows.
04:49We're all finding out together.
04:50I'd be a little bit more comfortable earlier because of plays like this, in concert with
04:55the progress he showed on Tuesday, where the big headline was, yes, he had no shot in his
04:59two minute drill, joint practice, three sacks, four plays, we all saw it.
05:02My opinion, he was a better quarterback than Jacoby Brissett that day.
05:06That was also the first day I've been able to say that in 14 practices firmly, you could
05:10argue for maybe one or two other days.
05:12In my opinion, he certainly was against the Eagles on Thursday night.
05:17As we get now into the good and the bad and the game balls, I'll just leave it up on this.
05:22May who I wrote about immediately after the game in those two plays.
05:26And then one more, which followed the dig route completion in the second quarter to
05:31Baker had this actual under center snap.
05:33He took wield left on a bootleg and he's got immediate pressure from Nolan Smith, a play
05:39that would have blown up Mac Jones or Bailey's happy who are not off platform throwers, not
05:43particularly creative.
05:44And instead of just taking the sack or throwing it away, he hops back a little bit and still
05:48whips it around.
05:49Nolan Smith for a pass to Mitchell Wilcox takes a penalty for a hit to the head, roughing
05:53the passer and they get the first down was another instance is dry mail set after the
05:58game.
06:00The best quarterbacks in the league make off platform off schedule plays.
06:03That was another one for me.
06:05The first two instances I gave you playing on schedule, playing with the right platform
06:09like a quarterback should.
06:10This is the creativity and a very, very small way in a small example that that shows that
06:15teases you.
06:16He looked like his old self and ultimately again, we're going to pivot here in a second.
06:20Him looking like the Drake may that I fell in love with as a prospect, knowing it would
06:24still take some time and development, but have that confidence and comfort within the
06:28offense to operate as he's told.
06:31And when he takes his chances, can play like we also had North Carolina, a little backyard
06:35ball and do things that the defense really has no answer for it, be it scrambling or
06:39extending plays outside the pocket.
06:40It was all very, very good.
06:42Now, again, that said, 23 yards at 47 coming on a screen where you really didn't do much
06:47and only one completion longer than 10 yards downfield.
06:49It's going to take some time for him.
06:51He cannot maintain and still win this job.
06:53He needs to build on this because Jacoby presets game was the worst I've seen from him.
06:58And any single day, including practices all summer.
07:01So I think Jacoby percent is probably going to bounce back, not to mention he's got a
07:03career interception rate of 1.8%, which is among the best in the league.
07:07Playing quarterback is not just about not throwing interceptions, but the Patriots know
07:11what they have in percent.
07:12They like it enough to give them all the starting reps.
07:14I hope that the Patriots protect Drake may with the starting offensive line and practice
07:19moving forward.
07:21But that's what I have for you here.
07:22As far as the two of them go, it was not this eight plus performance, but it was not football
07:26flash.
07:27It was more of a show in the more advanced kind of mature, boring mechanics of the position
07:33and may getting back to what makes him great and telling you that I still got it and showing
07:38it that was super encouraging.
07:40So Patriots are going to practice a lot leading up to the preseason finale against Washington
07:45next weekend, next Sunday in D.C. or D.C.
07:48It's one of the land over Maryland, but it's a really important week because this is closer
07:53now than I expected.
07:54And may May's day was one out of 16 now, 14 practices and two games.
08:01But this was good.
08:02OK, he actually wouldn't make the good as we finally move on five minutes after I teased
08:06it as we always do the good, the bad.
08:09We need to talk in game balls.
08:11Those two players who made my film review as we discuss the notes here, we're going
08:15to do mailbag questions and imagine you don't talk later.
08:18Our defensive players, Keon White, had a sack in a hurry.
08:22Cambridge Jennings had to run stuff in a hurry, and these dudes are going to be called
08:26upon most directly to replace Matt.
08:27You don't do again.
08:28We're going to talk about later.
08:29Defensive front eight, five sacks for run stuffs.
08:32They were facing a backup Eagles offensive line, but even the Eagles backups, frankly,
08:37like as good as the offensive line they're seeing in practice in any kind of play like
08:41that, particularly from White, who won on the edge with the sack and a little dip move
08:45who rushed from the interior.
08:46And it was kind of out of control, like bull in the China shop, but still managed despite
08:50that lack of control to apply pressure is really encouraging.
08:54And the Patriots are going to rotate through a bunch of guys to try to rotate judan break
08:58on a villain.
08:59Eight tackles game.
09:00Hi, Jelani to buy both played in the edge.
09:02Those are typically off ball linebackers last night, and I think moving forward, you're
09:06going to see them rotate in a way that John Bentley did this to played more in the edge
09:10where you don't think he could do this because they're not edge rushers.
09:14But early downs, you don't really need them to necessarily peel off the edge and apply
09:17this immediate heat.
09:19So that's how I think they're probably going to replace judan, at least for one night.
09:22Patriots passers was fine.
09:23It typically looks good in the preseason.
09:25This is going to be a greater than some of their parts passers moving forward so far.
09:29So good.
09:30But we'll see.
09:31Onto the bad.
09:32Who would have thought the offensive line is going to end up in this section?
09:37Let's get him just right off the top.
09:40But Darian Lowe gives up a sack.
09:41And part of this was Kevin Harris chipped the rusher that he was blocking into the pocket
09:48where Drake may stood for 3.1 seconds and then got blindsided.
09:51Not entirely of Darian Lowe, but you'd like to think that your left tackle can hang in
09:54there a little bit longer.
09:56He also gave up a hurry.
09:58So the other part about Darian Lowe playing is that he was in the third quarter, which
10:02tells me the Patriots are not quite comfortable with him in that position, to which I would
10:04say great because I'm not.
10:07And I don't think you are either listening at home.
10:10Now you're more comfortable with low than, let's say, Antonio Mafi, who gave up a sack
10:14and only played 10 snaps on the fourth quarter.
10:17He struggled last week against Carolina and can't really snap the ball.
10:20Speaking of not snapping the ball, Liam Fornadel, third string center in Mafi's place, also
10:25part of the bad, had two bad snaps, including the game clincher.
10:28This guy is an alum of the CFL, XFL, UFL.
10:31We're not going to talk a ton more about him because they don't think he's making the roster.
10:34But all of the bad in the minutia of this game underscores the big picture problems
10:40for the Patriots.
10:41They don't have a left tackle.
10:43They don't have players aside from David Andrews who can reliably snap the ball.
10:47Nick Leverett's getting there.
10:48But in my opinion right now, he should be considered a starter at right guard with on
10:51one who at right tackle, David Andrews at center, Sidney South at left guard.
10:55And then whoever can step forward at left tackle between Chuck Sikora for Cade Wallace
11:00and probably not Calvin Anderson, who also gave up a sack in the fourth quarter.
11:04But as far as we need to talk, this is going to surprise you because we already talked
11:12about him.
11:13You had a catch.
11:14You had a catch on Baker.
11:15It's raw, man.
11:17The route running in the details, getting bodied out of bounds on the first deep incompletion
11:22that May had.
11:23And he should have waited.
11:25May correctly diagnosed pressure on that same initial drive after the dig route completion
11:29leads to a field goal attempt.
11:31And he just goes straight down the sideline.
11:32Baker's not even close.
11:33Just gets bodied in the route.
11:35And he had Matt, Matthew Wilcox, Mike Mitchell Wilcox, third time's the charm.
11:40Mitchell Wilcox over the middle in breaking around man coverage.
11:43They should have waited.
11:44Stead through for Baker.
11:45Baker lost a rep.
11:46Baker lost a slant route, do the same physicality on the right side, drew a pass interference
11:51penalty later, but it's just not really on the same page as far as the details go with
11:57Drake May.
11:58And you can look at Jalen Polk and be like, well, he only had two catches.
12:01They only went for six yards.
12:02Both of those were in the flat.
12:04He's got more trust from the quarterbacks right now.
12:06As much as May likes going to him downfield, because I think it kind of scratches an itch
12:09of just like that backyard ball we talked about.
12:12He's not on the same page in the way that Polk is, because Polk has the more mature
12:15game and seems to, in my opinion, have a better grasp on the playbook.
12:19So this is not a long term concern, which Avon Baker, but he's cooled as we've talked
12:23about in training camp as of late.
12:24And you saw that in the preseason, not just because he had one target or one catch on
12:28four targets.
12:29It was the way those routes were run.
12:31And even that dig was rounded a little bit.
12:33So he's a rookie.
12:34It's going to prove this is not damning him forever or even the season or even the next
12:38week or two.
12:39Growth is not always linear.
12:41He'll probably bounce back, but for now, it's got to be sharper if the Patriots who
12:46want to give him more snaps are going to do that.
12:50One of the rookie I forgot to mention, you could throw him in here, but he's a six round
12:52pick.
12:53Marcelo style that that dude had a rough night, half a dozen catches, a lot of coverage, just
12:57just really, really not good.
12:59So who are we giving the game ball to the game ball?
13:01In my opinion, I mean, you could go up front.
13:06You could go with honestly, you know, choose core four, but a really nice bounce back performance
13:13at right tackle.
13:14And it's not just because he took the first snap and played like three seconds afterward
13:19and had a linebacker fully on the ground with both feet up.
13:23But I'm just going to give it to Drake May because it's not this a plus performance wasn't
13:28a minus.
13:29I wouldn't even call it a B plus, but just a guy to get that comfortable after what's
13:33been a disappointing camp C to C plus is encouraging.
13:37Or you can get to being earning starting reps.
13:39You have to put yourself into the confrontation.
13:41I think that's what this is about.
13:43He put himself back in the conversation to drive mail this morning, announced that it's
13:48not over yet for him.
13:49It's still open.
13:50Jacoby percent.
13:51It's going to win the job.
13:52He's going to start week one, but to still be in the mix, I think based on what he did
13:56last night is impressive.
13:57That's important.
13:58He's 21 and we'll see what happens next.
14:00Aside from that, a couple more notes, Roger Stevenson dude had 14 out of his 18 yards
14:05after contact.
14:06More of the point about the offensive line struggles.
14:08They've got to create more room on the ground for a run based offense, but when they want
14:13to pick up a couple of yards, you know where they're going.
14:15It's behind Michael Wedding, middle of first quarter, Tony Gibson, third and short where
14:19they go boom off the right side.
14:20He picked up four yards.
14:23Mentioned Jalen Polk made two guys miss.
14:25It's great.
14:26The other catch in the flat though showed you that his game is really not make or miss.
14:30So he got tackled in the flat for zero yards.
14:32I would feed him just a little bit more downfield aside from the Jacoby Brissette overthrow.
14:37Speaking of Brissette, the interception, this was bad football on both ends.
14:41It was a stick nod route.
14:42So in the left slot, Austin Hooper is going upfield, gives a head nod to the left and
14:48then breaks back up the middle of the field.
14:50This is staple red zone stuff.
14:52Staple old west coast kind of route up a little shake to the left and then angle back towards
14:56the middle.
14:57It was really, really well covered.
14:59So Jacoby Brissette either should have thrown this away or thrown it earlier, but on Hooper's
15:04end of it, he's stopping very often in practices, specifically in the red zone when there's
15:10contact on these routes.
15:12And a week ago, it also resulted in an interception because he's looking for a flag and he lost
15:16the ball, bobbling it to some more contact against the Eagles and Tuesday's joint practice
15:21that also resulted in a pick.
15:23And he did also draw an actual flag in that same practice.
15:25But my point is, I think he should have finished the route.
15:27This was not stick, nod and stop.
15:29This was stick, nod and then keep going because there was some space over the middle of the
15:34field, but he hesitated and then Brissette threw at him where he and his defender were
15:38hip to hip.
15:39And obviously it got picked off.
15:40So not good all the way around, but I think they'll fix it defensively.
15:43Last couple of notes and we'll talk about the corners later on in the podcast.
15:48But you know, for me, backup defensive tackle still a mixed bag.
15:51Daniel Kowali was awesome on Tuesday in the joint practice.
15:54Not so much here in the game.
15:56You saw guys like Mike Purcell look better.
15:58Tristan Hill missed a tackle.
15:59Jeremiah Farms Jr. naturally came back down to earth and they're waiting for him as Arman
16:03Watts, who, unlike the Carolina game, when he played in the last drive of the whole freaking
16:08game, he was in the mix until the third quarter then came out.
16:11So I'm still not confident they're going to fully replace Christian Barmore.
16:15Certainly not one for one, but with a couple of guys.
16:17And maybe that just means more Keon White inside, certainly at passing downs.
16:20We'll see.
16:21But that's a group that I don't think you have a solidified depth chart yet, just yet
16:25coming to cut down day.
16:26I mentioned Rayquan McMillan.
16:28He's a core special team where he's going to make the team to see him throw his body
16:31around, though.
16:32Like crazy blew up a couple of runs, mentioned the game high tackles is a good sign.
16:35It's softball linebacker group.
16:37Maybe it's just like the Dante Hightower osmosis kind of coaching just being around him.
16:42Christian Ellis looks good.
16:43Joe Giles Harris missed a couple of tackles, but he's been really good in coverage.
16:48He's not been as much on special teams.
16:49Ellis has been, but it's it's a it's a solid backup group in a way that I'm not counting
16:55on them to make regular season plays.
16:56But I certainly feel better about them than I did.
16:59And Del Pettis under half the rookie.
17:00Don't forget about him.
17:01Still got a nose for the ball, but I just I don't know if I'd put him on the roster
17:05yet.
17:06Christian Gonzalez obviously making the roster.
17:08I'd like him to show up as CB one.
17:10And it's really out of a longing to see that again because I love it.
17:14It's awesome watching him play football at peak performance.
17:17I haven't seen he had all summer.
17:19I'd like to.
17:20That's what this is about.
17:21Not killing him, not really on him.
17:22It's just to say, where's that guy?
17:24I saw last December.
17:25I want to hang out again.
17:26I mentioned the core special teamers.
17:28These are guys again.
17:29I don't think they're going to place as much emphasis as we did in the Belichick era on.
17:34OK, all of these guys are definitely making the roster, but something to keep in mind
17:37if you're looking at spots 45 to 53, who's going to get the tiebreakers?
17:42I already mentioned McBillen running school recently making the team Christian Ellis backup
17:46inside linebacker.
17:4753.
17:48These are guys who have started at least three out of four units last night and most didn't
17:52Carolina.
17:53O'Shane Zeminis.
17:54Other sack drink.
17:55Jalen Hawkins, Isaiah Bolden, Angel Michael Hasty, who for my money based on we starting
18:01certain periods with Drake May in the second string offense might be pushing Kevin Harris
18:04with the number three running back job, but anyway, he's playing a lot more special teams
18:08than Kevin Harris.
18:09I think all those dudes are making the team.
18:10So make it at what you will.
18:12Oh, Joey Sly.
18:13Another 50 order.
18:14Good for him.
18:15Kicking competitions really heating up, but that's it for my preseason notes and Drake
18:17May.
18:18There you have it coming up more mailbag.
18:20That's you done.
18:21But first quick break.
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19:39All right, as promised, let's wrap up with the mailbag here.
19:44We have every single question answered because I'm a nice guy.
19:48Carlos leading off.
19:49Haven't heard from him in a while.
19:50Carlos got famous on us.
19:51He had a little interview with Mike Reese at training camp, flying all the way from
19:54the West coast.
19:55And now he's back and he's sad to be filing questions like these of this little rinky
19:59dig podcast.
20:00Hey Andrew, did any players from the secondary separate themselves last night or had any
20:04of the bottom roster guys impressed you?
20:07That seems to be in his words, their deepest position group for me, Carlos, no real separation
20:12last night against the Eagles.
20:14And honestly, it depends on the day with the corner.
20:16Something that's arrived.
20:17Mayo said, looking at Alex Austin and Marco Wilson and Isaiah Bolden and Marcella style,
20:22who we know had a crap night, which happens, he's a six round rookie, but Alex Austin,
20:27I will say has seen the most consistent starting reps opposite Christian Gonzalez, which to
20:32me is honestly more telling than whatever I have him charted for.
20:35Because after every single practice, you know, the coaches go back, they sit around, watch
20:39the film, do their own charting, which is more detailed than mine and are able to replay
20:43practice in a way that I can.
20:45So with all that information, they've said, yeah, Alex Austin's our guy.
20:50After that, it's Marco Wilson who look good against the Eagles in the preseason game,
20:54but in the joint practice gave up six sketches.
20:57And then you come to Marcella style, we already mentioned six sketches in the game and Isaiah
21:00Bolden, who's kind of just hanging around like he's been in the slot.
21:04He took a couple snaps actually at the safety level last night, but has not like Austin
21:10or Wilson or even dial flashed with a pick and team periods ago.
21:14Okay.
21:15He's starting to get it.
21:16He is a bigger corner.
21:17He's super athletic.
21:18They're trying him at a couple of different positions, but there's no one guy that screams
21:21to me, Hey, I'm ready to take the job opposite Christian Gonzalez in the event that let's
21:25say hypothetically, Jonathan Jones is out for a while on the guy that's next up.
21:30And so I do think it is competitive and the way you're talking about it's deep, but it's
21:35not deep in the fact that they have so many NFL starting caliber corners, right?
21:40It's just a bunch of different outcomes.
21:41We could see come cut down day.
21:42They might keep Austin and Wilson.
21:44They could go with dial and Bolden and Wilson or keep all of them or trade one, but it's
21:49none of them inspire such confidence.
21:50So you're like, that's the guy.
21:52I think that's really the essence of your question.
21:54As for safety.
21:55Look, I told you I've been high on Jalen Hawkins.
21:57He really hardly played aside from special teams.
22:00Probably a bad thing in the NFL, but, uh, play single high.
22:03They've trusted him in the box.
22:05He's going to make the team.
22:06Not only does his, of course, special team, but right now in Marte Mopuel as their third
22:10safety and I like him and that's really been it aside from Del Pettis is like always around
22:14the ball.
22:15Um, but it was, you know, I, I'm, I'm hesitant.
22:19You had some folks who were very excited about Deshaun Fenwick a couple of weeks ago, and
22:22then that dude gets cut and now he's back, but I don't want to deliver hype on these
22:25guys who were undrafted rookies in a way that says, Oh, they're definitely going to make
22:29the 53.
22:30Unless it's a Jacoby's Myers case, uh, Gunnar Olszewski back in the day are guys who clearly
22:35plainly Jonathan Jones, even go back to 16, you see and say, okay, he's got it.
22:40None of them have done that.
22:41Speaking of Marte Mopuel, Gary wants to know, Hey, what's up with Marte Mopuel, uh, Gary,
22:47I wish I knew.
22:48It's a good question.
22:49He has not practiced in pads.
22:51Once Mayo spoke at the start of camp and maybe it was a minicamp that they're still trying
22:55to figure out his position between linebacker and safety.
22:57I think he's a much better second level player, which would then really put him as a linebacker.
23:02Uh, but he's too, too small by the wood, the typical profile and body type that they like
23:07at that position.
23:08He is, however, around training camp.
23:11He's walking around a practice, always in his Jersey, never in pads, observing the drills,
23:15taking those pencil reps.
23:16I know Marcus Jones and Jonathan Jones are expected to be back soon.
23:19Jonathan Jones is just like a minor soft to true injuries.
23:22Uh, I don't know if Marte Mopuel falls into that same group, but I would say there's a
23:28possibility that they're just taking it slow with him because I know that's what they've
23:32been doing with the other two defensive backs who have been out for over a week.
23:35Cheeseburger posse are the pads experiencing speaking of injuries and the inordinate amount
23:41of injuries as campers at the same average as every other team thinking about Jonathan
23:44Jones, Marcus Jones, pop Douglas, Marte Mopuel, talkie talkie.
23:48The list goes on.
23:49Short answer, no, uh, long answer is some of the guys you mentioned, specifically pop
23:54Douglas, who we found out last episode, hurt his hand, actually playing catch with Joe
23:58Milton, common Twitter joke turned true is these guys got hurt before camp, so they came
24:04in as damaged goods and you need to heal and recover and, you know, do whatever.
24:07And that goes for talkie talkie as well.
24:09Marcus Jones, uh, we know not the most durable player.
24:12Maybe it's because he's five foot eight, 180 pounds.
24:14I don't know.
24:15Or it's just bad luck and soft tissue stuff.
24:17Like with Jonathan Jones just happens.
24:19Taekwon Thornton missed a day earlier in camp and then came back and recovered.
24:23So no, I, I don't have the hard data on all of the practices missed by starters or projected
24:27second stringers bill to do every other NFL training camp.
24:30But in my seventh year charting, tracking, watching all this stuff down on Fox pro it's
24:36just another summer.
24:37And if anything, honestly, because again, pop Douglas and Sione talkie talkie came in
24:41with, uh, you know, pre-training camp injuries.
24:44I think it's been a healthier summer, despite the fact drive Mayo has pushed them physically
24:49with all these padded practices and red zone drills and some goal line drills and one-on-ones
24:54and bill Belichick really did the last three or four years.
24:57Uh, Charlie Demers, Demers, Demers, Charlie with Drake's performance last night.
25:02Do you think this speeds up his timeline as to when he will take over QB one, or would
25:06it be more beneficial to have him sit half a year?
25:09So we talked a lot about Drake already.
25:11I will just say it's a data point in a set for him, right?
25:15This is not all about what you see or I watch.
25:18It's what about the coaches take in way, a certain way, and then make a decision based
25:24on all the data available to them.
25:26And so this was, this came more important relative to say day one, two, three, four
25:32of camp when they were non-padded and they were practices.
25:35And it's a lot of seven on sevens and 11 on 11s and not really in the red zone and not
25:38very telling, but this season, we also know they're playing the long game, right?
25:43They are trading away their best player for the round pick.
25:47They have a guy in here, Jacoby preset, who is a stopgap bridge starter.
25:51So if May's not ready, they're not going to rush it.
25:54If they don't feel like they can support him, despite whatever Gerard Mayo says,
25:57they're not going to play him.
25:59So this was good.
26:00I think his sack avoidance is being underrated a little bit, but you just
26:03don't want the guy sitting back there running around if he doesn't have to.
26:07As there goes my alarm again, just as we had last week.
26:09That means I have to do radio soon in Maine.
26:11Um, so no, I, I don't think that changed the timeline.
26:14I do think it was a good day for him, but even if he closed the gap a little
26:19bit with Jacoby preset, they're still waiting for him to put together multiple
26:23practices, and if he does that moving forward and another good preseason game,
26:26then we have a conversation.
26:27But right now, no, nothing's really changed my mind.
26:30Uh, Bryant says there has to be a center out there that won't make the
26:34roster that's better than mafia, right?
26:35Do you think they have any tackle upgrades that are cut from other teams?
26:38I do think they'll probably find a center soon enough, uh, because it's a less
26:43valuable position, believe it or not, even in offenses that are relying on those
26:46guys to set protections and make line calls and adjustments.
26:49Uh, but I don't think they're going to find tackles.
26:50Why?
26:51Because tackles are a top five, most valuable position, right?
26:55It's quarterback.
26:56And then pick this in your own order, receiver corner, pass
27:00rusher, and offensive tackle.
27:01And so you go back to 2021 Patriots trade for Yasir Durant with the chiefs
27:05to give him a seventh round pick.
27:07He doesn't really play a year ago.
27:10It was Tyrone Wheatley, Jr.
27:11and veterinarian low.
27:12You know how that went.
27:13And in those cases still going.
27:15So teams just don't give up or punt on offensive tackles.
27:18If they're remotely starting caliber, they keep them because of how important
27:22they are to whatever they want to achieve, whether they're contending or
27:25rebuilding or whatever they might be doing.
27:27So teams are always, always, always looking for tackles.
27:30Never more so than an August and that creates a seller's market, at which
27:34point it's, you're going to make a ridiculous overpay, or we're just not
27:37going to give you the tackle because we really need them to, uh, speaking of
27:40tackles, Chris fallen avarice and Matt Ryan, uh, not the Matt Ryan are all
27:46asking little veterinarian low questions.
27:48Basically, are they committed to them?
27:50Are they going to bring in guys for a workout?
27:52Um, you know, do Charles Leno or box here?
27:56Are you going to come through?
27:57And here's what I would say.
27:59I hope they do sign a stopgap tackle and I hope it is one of
28:02Charles Leno or David Bogdari.
28:04Uh, beyond that though, I don't see it happening because you
28:08have a couple of questions, right?
28:09We just ran into this with Brandon.
28:10Now you have very different player position situation.
28:12You gotta, you gotta, but do they want to come here at the end of
28:15their career and move how much money are the Patriots willing to give them?
28:19Okay.
28:20And what kind of shape are they in it?
28:21If you're on the fence about retirement, my guess is you're not really inclined
28:26to wake up at 6 AM and do a bunch of squats and pass sets and
28:30get ready for an NFL season.
28:31Now they might just be waiting till the end of camp to sign with the team.
28:34Uh, but to me, the ideal plan is to pursue one of those options.
28:38And at the same time, keep troops of core for and Caden Wallace at left
28:41tackle while moving right, Mike, I wanted to right tackle and Nick
28:45lever or laden Robinson at guard.
28:47So on one who from right guard to right tackle, replace him at guard and
28:50throw everyone else at left tackle.
28:52Cause you just need to get that figured out.
28:54Patriots offensive line would be fine.
28:56If they didn't need a left tackle, but they do.
28:59And that's the issue here.
29:00So just instead of fighting a two front ward, both tackle spots, hone in on the
29:05one and put all of your players and luck and bet and hopes into that position
29:11that eventually someone comes through a couple more Pascal, can we now say
29:15that development plan for Drake seems to be working and everyone else clamoring
29:18it for, to be different should simmer down first of all, yes, we should
29:23all simmer down self-included.
29:25Uh, second of all, you know, the media space and I would say the fan base, if
29:30you're being honest with yourselves is a highly reactive, impatient group mindset.
29:34It's always been the case, right?
29:35Whether it was Drake may or anybody else.
29:37So this to me is not proof of concept because we also have no idea how may
29:43would have looked or played last week.
29:45Had he received more snaps, he might've looked great.
29:48He might've looked like crap.
29:49We don't know.
29:50We will never know.
29:51It's a counterfactual.
29:52That's the beauty, uh, or the ugliness of them.
29:54So what I would say is he looked good Thursday night.
29:58He was arguably better than Jacoby preset to see in the joint practice.
30:02And that is a tiny bit of momentum, but it's not proof of anything working
30:06because maybe had he gotten more snaps against Carolina, he would have looked
30:10good and at that point you would argue, well, you should have played him sooner.
30:15But we don't know.
30:16So I would just say he's in a better place now that's a positive.
30:19And we just have to sit and wait and watch to find out what happens next.
30:22Uh, Jeff, if our offensive tackle situation is going to stink anyway,
30:25when you rather put Wallace in one of these spots, so hopefully he can
30:28develop into a solid starter.
30:30I know I would.
30:31Yes.
30:32However, Jeff, uh, history is not kind to rookie starters and Andrew Thomas for
30:37one with the giants top 10 pick in a really good offensive tackle class and
30:42is a complete disaster as a rookie.
30:44Now he's one of the better tackles in the league right now.
30:47Uh, and when you look at Kane Wallace, it's not that, you know, he's
30:51not a talented kid or doesn't have the physical tools.
30:54It's that he's not even a first round pick.
30:55He's a third round rookie who after four years of playing right tackle at
30:59Penn state is now kind of changing positions because the Patriots
31:02haven't playing both sides.
31:04And normally that would be fine because you're not counting on a third
31:07round rookie to start for you.
31:08But in your scenario where history, no matter where you were drafted is against
31:12you, just stepping into block NFL, edge rushers, guys like Nick Bosa, even
31:17Trey Hendrickson, who we'll see the first week, um, you know, anyone else
31:20that they're going to see moving forward, it's going to be a problem.
31:23It's a huge jump, even coming from the big 10.
31:25So I would say, yes, as I said before, stigma, left tackle, don't count on
31:29them as a starter, but at least make him an option and hope that he surprises you.
31:33Captain's insight.
31:34Can you rank the receivers one through four as it sits right now?
31:37Sure.
31:38Uh, number one, pop Douglas, number two, Jalen Polk, number three, KJ Osborne.
31:42Number four, choose your own adventure.
31:45Like Javon Baker's had greater flashes.
31:48No question.
31:48He's also super raw.
31:50Uh, tag on Thornton, Keyshawn booty at a drop last week.
31:54I still don't know how he consistently wins.
31:56He tends to have sticky hands, except for sometimes in the preseason.
32:00Isn't that fast?
32:00Isn't that quick?
32:01Doesn't separate particularly well.
32:03Jalen Rager is making more hay as a returner, which kind of tells you what
32:07he is as a receiver, as does his entire career resume.
32:10So that's it.
32:11Dibs last one with all the struggles of backup center.
32:13Why haven't we heard anything of Charles Turner?
32:15He was a center for LSU.
32:17Uh, dibs.
32:17You're correct.
32:18Here's the thing though.
32:19He's an undrafted rookie and he's looked like it for most of camp.
32:22I would expect him to get a little bit more run, but the Patriots also opted
32:26for Liam for Nadel X UFL, XFL CFL guard over him, and that tells you in
32:33my mind, all you need to know.
32:34Breaking news.
32:35We've got a young, exciting underdog team in Boston.
32:38That's making a run for the playoffs.
32:40No, it's not the Patriots.
32:41Well, not the Patriots yet.
32:43It's the Red Sox.
32:44They've been following this season.
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33:55Wrapping up here with Matt Judon.
33:56Uh, it's a funny thing that happens when you record a podcast in the morning,
33:59then there's a giant seismic trade at night.
34:01You don't feel super compelled to jump back on the podcast because
34:05this hadn't even come out yet.
34:06Speaking of Wednesday's episode, a really good conversation with Doug,
34:09just none of it obviously touched on Judon.
34:11It was more about the joint practice, what we have learned through
34:13three weeks of training camp.
34:15This happens.
34:15I read a column, do TV, and then we go to a preseason game Thursday.
34:18I said, fine, I'll do this on Friday.
34:20Here's the bottom line about Judon.
34:22Um, this trade was a good trade for the Patriots.
34:26I told you in this podcast, a couple of executives told me they
34:30should get a third round pick.
34:31That obviously got a lot more complicated when he made a mess on
34:34the practice field in July 29th.
34:36And we'll come back to this in a second, but ultimately
34:38zooming all the way out.
34:40This type of trade is a dime a dozen in the history of the league
34:44rebuilding team offloads, an unhappy veteran contract year.
34:48He's a good player.
34:49We don't really need you in the back end of your prime.
34:51We'll take the draft pick.
34:52Here you go.
34:54What this trade was really about is what it signaled publicly
34:58about where the Patriots are.
34:59In case anyone else misses the Patriots earn a rebuild.
35:03And for some reason, there's this idea out there that this is not
35:06year one of the rebuild under Elliot Wolfe and Brad Mayo.
35:09It's actually year five.
35:11And let me just tell you this.
35:12If you believe that you are either listening to media members who
35:16are arguing in bad faith or talking another ass because yes, Tom Brady
35:21left five years ago and the Patriots have largely stunk since, but every
35:25single year under Bill Belichick post Brady, they were trying to win.
35:30He was a head coach.
35:31He was the GM and this was the organizational direction when now,
35:34when tomorrow, when always, and he succeeded in 21, but failed in three
35:39of those other four years since Brady left right now in year five, there's
35:43a new coach, there's a new GM, and there's a new organizational direction.
35:47That's the definition of a rebuild.
35:49We are not trying to win today.
35:51We just gave up our best player, someone who have helped
35:54us win more games this year.
35:56We're not interested.
35:57We have both eyes on 2025 and 2026, and we want to do everything now to get
36:03there and the best position as possible to win that that's why rookies are
36:08going to play, that's why they're stockpiling assets, that's why they're
36:11saving cap space and rolling it into those future years, this is the rebuild.
36:15This is year one sacrificing today for tomorrow in a way the Patriots did not
36:20do in three of the last four years, Bill thought he was going to win.
36:23He just failed.
36:24This is about a new direction.
36:25That is a rebuild.
36:27That's what's going on right here in Judon.
36:28Look, he's 32.
36:31The trade was actually a birthday gift.
36:33Uh, if you believe this is something he wanted, he said he wanted to retire
36:36here and been clear about that.
36:37Yeah.
36:37Yeah.
36:37But, um, personally I'll miss watching him play.
36:40I'll miss talking to him.
36:41Ran into him once at an event in the seaport.
36:44Good dude away was not one of these.
36:46Like I'm not talking to you outside of, uh, work treat like human being,
36:50but obviously got grumpy around his money and I don't blame him about that.
36:55Okay.
36:55So what ultimately happened here?
36:57People want to play the blame game.
36:58Personally, I think both parties got what they wanted in the end.
37:01Judon is going to get some amount of money from Atlanta, uh, or at least
37:05more than he would have had in new England, the Patriots get a pick.
37:07They happen to rebuild.
37:08So I'm not interested in playing the blame game, but it is entirely possible.
37:13If you are upset as somebody who wants to watch interesting football, as frankly
37:16I do, because we would be losers in this situation to blame someone.
37:20And I've defaulted amid all the uncertainty.
37:22I don't know how the trade negotiations went.
37:24We know pal Mike charity has reported.
37:25They were far, far, far.
37:26That's three fars apart in negotiations, pretty much all the way up till the end.
37:31And so it's possible to match you.
37:32And I'm just wanting this exorbitant, unreasonable amount of money in the
37:35end, 20 or more million dollars for a 32 year old guy coming off of a torn bicep.
37:40I don't know.
37:41I wish I did.
37:42So in that uncertainty, I defaulted to saying it's really a little bit more of
37:46the team's fault if you want to place fall because of how this was handled.
37:50You knew he was going to hold in as soon as the deal was restructured
37:53last year, I deal with bill Belichick did, by the way, not Elliot Wolf, not
37:56macro because he was going to have a $6.5 million base salary way underpaid, even
38:01for a guy coming off the injury that he is, and you had the cap and you had the
38:05cash and you had control of the situation.
38:07You certainly knew his market probably before the draft and you held on to
38:09them thinking you could convince him.
38:10Otherwise, even though in Baltimore where he got, let's say rankled publicly
38:15about his contract and went public with it on Twitter and social media and other
38:20places, and even went at one reporter, which, Hey, maybe who's right.
38:22I don't know.
38:23That you could change his mind.
38:25They did.
38:25Okay.
38:26And so working backwards, July 29th, he makes that mess.
38:31There's no practice the next day.
38:33Since then, Matt, you and I'm returns just to press conferences.
38:36The last one was kind of milly mouth.
38:38And then on Monday, as he's still practicing, things have simmered down, but
38:42no progress is really being made.
38:43Jeremy Fowler ESPN tweets on Monday, multiple teams have contacted
38:47the Patriots about Judah.
38:49And you're like, yeah, right.
38:52Like, why, why is this happening?
38:53But working back, keep that tweet in mind because the next day is Tuesday.
38:58Eagles come in for joint practices and match.
39:01You don't participate a lot of risk in their pads, physical
39:04drills, one-on-ones 11s, all that.
39:07He participates in a way we never saw last year, but then he has, and you
39:11don't know this or pre-scheduled press conference, he was supposed to speak
39:13along with Drake Maynard, Mondrian, Michael, and all these guys doesn't do it.
39:17Maybe he knew in that moment he was getting traded and maybe he knew all
39:21along because that's why he was participating to rehab, his value, to
39:25rehab, the image that he had damaged in July 29th, making a mess, which hurt
39:30the negotiations that Patriots may have been having even at that point, because
39:33teams go, he wants out of there.
39:35He's making a mess.
39:36You're going to, you're going to come to our terms.
39:38We're not going to give you a third round pick that you want.
39:41So maybe they told him in that off day when he didn't come back in July 30th
39:44and the whole team was off July 31st.
39:46Chill, come back, play, play ball with us.
39:49And in time, we will turn this around because time is on our side.
39:53He played ball.
39:55He got traded.
39:56So let's have the contract from the Falcons, but in time, the Patriots went out.
40:01They waited Atlanta out and got their third round pick.
40:04That is a theory I would buy and we'll underscore it theory.
40:08I don't know for a fact, but look, to go back to the rebuilding point,
40:13time is the beauty of a rebuild.
40:14Time is what the Patriots had.
40:16It's what they used.
40:16And again, if they got what they wanted to get worse this year
40:20and have more assets for the future, that's a win or a drought.
40:23Mayo put it yesterday.
40:25A win win.
40:26Okay.
40:27Patriots are going to practice on Saturday, Sunday, Monday.
40:29I will be back either Monday night or Tuesday morning with a new episode.
40:32We'll have another one later in the week.
40:34We'll have more four minute drills with players.
40:37Holler at me if you have a suggestion.
40:38If you have not left the review or rating, I'm mad at you.
40:43And you can fix that by doing that this week.
40:45Otherwise it's been a good week.
40:47Good times.
40:48Have a good weekend.
40:48All right.