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00:00:00Flexibility. Convenience. Opportunity. Find your digital advantage in the Keeneland Digital
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00:00:25Good morning. It is 947 Wednesday, January 5th. This is the TDN Writer's Room presented
00:00:32by Keeneland. My name is Joe Bianca. I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily
00:00:35News. And last year on our first show of the year, I made a bold prediction that this was
00:00:40going to be a great year. The problem? That was the morning of January 6th. So this year,
00:00:46I just hope everybody has fun and stays safe.
00:00:50Good morning. It's Bill Finley, a correspondent for Thoroughbred Daily News. And after 2021,
00:00:56I think it's, and 2020 as well, I think it's worth noting that we're five days into 2022.
00:01:02We haven't had a crisis yet in horse racing. So it's going to be a great year, Joe.
00:01:08Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable. And I promised my family that I would be more
00:01:14upbeat and positive going into 2022. But for the love of God, man, for f**k's sake,
00:01:20industry, we are screwing up big time. I can't believe it. It's like a humiliating
00:01:26kick in the crotch. Not once, but twice. I don't think Jon's ever dropped an F-bomb
00:01:31in the entirety of the show. That's how he starts 2022. That's how upset I am about not
00:01:37only Gamin retiring, but about what we're going to talk about with USADA. That's why.
00:01:42That's why he's in such a bad mood. The historic specter of Gamin is finally gone.
00:01:49I feel for you, buddy. The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland. Make plans to attend
00:01:55the Keeneland January Horses of All Ages Sale, which has produced the likes of recent matriarch
00:02:00winner Regal Glory, starts January 10th and runs through January 13th. The catalog is now online
00:02:06at January.keeneland.com. So we start off the new year, unfortunately, with some bad news,
00:02:12but not entirely unpredictable news that the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which was
00:02:18supposed to come aboard through the Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Act and clean up our mess and
00:02:23unify the drug enforcement and policy in American racing, was unable to strike a deal with the Horse
00:02:30Racing Integrity and Safety Authority to become the partner that cleans up the game.
00:02:36I just want to read the statement from Travis Tigert that he released. He said,
00:02:40After months of negotiations, we have been unable to enter an agreement in line with the requirements
00:02:44of the act and one which would have given us a reasonable chance to put in place a credible and
00:02:49effective program. While we are obviously saddened by the outcome at this stage, we tried our
00:02:54absolute best to find a way forward, but without success. And he left the door open slightly,
00:03:00maybe to USADA coming back in at some point. He said, We don't know what role, if any,
00:03:05USADA is going to have in this implementation going forward. This is super unfortunate,
00:03:10but unfortunately, not all that surprising, because a certain intrepid host of the TDN
00:03:15Writers Room called this after our interview with Travis Tigert, and we were reacting to that
00:03:21interview. I believe we have that clip. Travis kept saying, If we take over,
00:03:26if we're in charge of this at the end. And how many times he said that kind of worried me,
00:03:31and it kind of seemed very ominous that he's expecting there to be so much pushback
00:03:36and so much watering down of the rules going forward, that it's not going to be something
00:03:41that he and Tessa and the rest of USADA can stand behind. And that would be a tragedy.
00:03:47Normally, I really like being right. It's like one of my favorite things in the world when I can
00:03:51say I was dead on right about something. But this time I would have preferred to be wrong. And I,
00:03:55it's not something that I celebrate that this happened. It's a major bummer. And I think it has,
00:04:01it's really ominous for the sport of racing and what it means going forward.
00:04:04But I'm curious what you guys think. Let's start with Bill.
00:04:07Well, Joe, when you said a major bummer, I think you certainly downplayed it. This is a catastrophe,
00:04:13a crisis, pick words like that. And the real problem here is, where do we go from here?
00:04:20And the problem within the problem is there's no plan B. There's no other outfit. So if you
00:04:28run a restaurant and you can't come to agreement with Coke to be the official soft drink of your
00:04:33restaurant, just go to Pepsi. Maybe you can work out something with Pepsi. There is no such thing
00:04:37here. So as things stand now, I mean, the thing is just completely blown up. Now, I know that the
00:04:43Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Act dealt with more than just USADA and cleaning up the game.
00:04:48But let's face it, that's what everybody was really interested in. Everything else is a minor
00:04:55thing. Do we really care that now with Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Act, they're going
00:04:59to have the same LASIK rules in Iowa that they have in Virginia? Who cares? Absolutely, who cares?
00:05:06So what do you do from here? And as I wrote in the TDN afterwards, and I don't know if there's
00:05:12any possibility of this or not, but the only possible solution is to have these two groups
00:05:19get together and settle whatever their differences are and bring USADA back into the fold.
00:05:24If that is practical or possible, I have no idea. Part of the problem is when this was announced,
00:05:29no one said in any sort of concrete terms, what was the impasse? Was it money? Was it rulemaking?
00:05:35What was it? So we don't know. But yeah, Joe, I mean, it was so discouraging because we got
00:05:43so excited about this. We really thought we're going to see a new era in horse racing. Now,
00:05:47we're just right back to square one. Yeah. And Bill, you use a very good
00:05:52analogy of running a restaurant and having other options with regard to who's going to
00:05:57furnish the soft drinks. I immediately thought of this is almost like being on your wedding day
00:06:04and standing in front of all your friends and family and loved ones. And just before you're
00:06:09about to walk down the aisle, your partner turns to you and says, you know what, let's talk about
00:06:13that prenup. You're so far down the road now at this point with this one partner that you don't
00:06:21have any negotiation leverage. I mean, basically, you're either walking down the aisle at this
00:06:25point with whatever terms that can come up or you're aborting and saying this can't work.
00:06:32And unfortunately, it looks like it's the latter, that we've gone down this road as an industry
00:06:38with the hopes and dreams of being able to hook our wagon to USADA who, again, every time we spoke
00:06:44to Travis Tigard at all with his organization, I mean, they know what they're talking about.
00:06:49They know what they're talking about with regard to drug enforcement. They know about testing.
00:06:54They know about investigative measures. I mean, all the things that light up in my heart as far
00:07:00as what we need to do to clean up the industry. And now we're kind of left standing at the altar
00:07:05by ourselves at this point. But there are other groups out there that do drug enforcement and
00:07:13testing. Obviously, Major League Baseball, the NFL, the other major sports all use either they
00:07:19have something in-house or they more than likely outsource it to a third party. So there are other
00:07:24organizations. But this just seemed like such a good fit for us. It seemed like such an important
00:07:30person, an adult in the room that we talked about all the time that had done it before,
00:07:34that had had a past performance and track history of putting cheaters away in other
00:07:41industries and other sports that just this just seemed like a perfect alignment of lining up the
00:07:48stars for everybody. But we still have other things. Even if USADA came in and said,
00:07:54we're going to come back to the table and we're going to agree. And Bill, you mentioned, is it
00:07:59money? Is it power? Is it legislation? It's probably all those things that they're not on
00:08:05board with. But we as an industry still don't know, A, how much the testing and investigative
00:08:11expenses are going to cost. And B, once we know what the cost, who the hell is paying for it?
00:08:16We still haven't figured out those major things. And July 1st is right down the road. I mean,
00:08:22and this is going to be the law of the land starting this summer. And not only don't we know
00:08:28how to pay for it or what it's going to cost even, but we don't know who the adult in the room is
00:08:32going to be that's going to be orchestrating this whole organization. It is just a PR nightmare
00:08:36in a history of PR nightmares for our industry. Yeah, and I wish we had gotten more detail. I
00:08:43wish we had gotten more explanation for why this agreement fell apart. And I think a part of it has
00:08:51to be money. And the fact that there was never really any framework for how this massive cost
00:08:58was going to be distributed throughout the industry. Now, honestly, I think that there's
00:09:03a little too much hand-wringing about that. And I get why the trainers and the blue-collar people
00:09:09in the industry are concerned about the cost of this falling on their backs. But in general,
00:09:15there's a lot of money in this industry. There is a ton of money. Don't act like this industry
00:09:21is starving at the very top levels. There are so many people with so much money to blow
00:09:26in this business that I refuse to believe that we couldn't figure out an equitable cost structure
00:09:32for this thing. I just think there isn't really necessarily the appetite for that from a lot of
00:09:38circles in this business. And I think that there are legitimate concerns about the way that this
00:09:43is going to be created and enforced. I just think that for them to drop out, because it was still
00:09:48pretty early. We were talking about them taking over out of competition testing midway through
00:09:542022 and then race day testing in 2023. There was still time to hammer out the details of this
00:09:59agreement. And for them to drop out in December, I think is probably not a good sign of them being
00:10:05able to come back to the table and work out what it seemed to be pretty fundamental differences.
00:10:10And it's just, honestly, my first reaction from it was that that racing is doomed. And I don't
00:10:17know how you come back from having this finally broad-based support for this kind of reform and
00:10:25then having it just disintegrate and go away. I don't know how you re-rally the troops to get
00:10:30something similar done in the future. And maybe I'm wrong. In Dan Ross's article, he talked about
00:10:37working with the RMTC and RC to get this kind of thing done. But we've kind of had these groups
00:10:45for a long time and really have not gotten the ball rolling in a major way in terms of
00:10:50actually cleaning up the sport. So I just I can't help but be pessimistic about what this means
00:10:55going forward. And I wish it weren't the case, because I think there are a lot of reform-minded
00:11:00people in the business right now. I think a lot of people have gotten their heads out of their
00:11:04asses finally and realized that we are teetering off the edge of a cliff here in racing. But
00:11:11if you don't have the right cops on the beat, you can have all the good intentions in the world,
00:11:15and it's not going to matter. The cheaters are still going to find a way to get through this
00:11:19patchwork system, as they have been for decades. And I wonder from you guys what you think happens
00:11:26going forward. Do you think there's a realistic chance that USADA comes back to the table?
00:11:29This is all speculation, but just give me something. Give us something to grasp onto here,
00:11:34because I think there was some optimism towards the end of 2021, and it all just dissipated.
00:11:40Joe, I mean, it's a good question. I have no idea if USADA is, you know,
00:11:44completely pulled the plug and walked away, or this is maybe some sort of
00:11:49ploy that they're using to get a better deal or something like that. But if it's not USADA,
00:11:54no matter what it is, it's not going to be good enough, not even going to be nearly good enough.
00:12:00So right now, you're looking at only two choices. You're looking at USADA or a return to the status
00:12:06quo. And I unfortunately think that, you know, and so what they do the RMTC and they get this
00:12:12involved and they do this and that. It's not going to be any good. It's not going to work.
00:12:16You're going to go right back to where you were. So, you know, is this going to doom horse racing?
00:12:21You know, I wouldn't say that, but we're going to, I think we're going to have to
00:12:25continue to live with a game that we know is all, you know, tainted by people cheating.
00:12:31So, you know, I think that's the future here. Unfortunately, I think the future is probably
00:12:36just to return to the status quo and we all shrug our shoulders and say, oh, well, you know,
00:12:41what do we do now? Yeah, Joe, unfortunately, I think it's going to be the status quo. And I think
00:12:47that, you know, the industry is going to continue to die in the vine. You know, whether it's because
00:12:54people are cheating and racing or because the gene pool is shrinking or because the full crop
00:13:00is shrinking, you know, because we can't get new fans to come in and be interested in the sport,
00:13:07whether it's just wagering or owning, you know, it's continuing to narrow our industry,
00:13:15both in number of horses and in number of people who want to put up the money to buy the horses.
00:13:20And I think there's always going to be... I did a lot of soul searching after being
00:13:24upset and annoyed about this announcement. I did a lot of soul searching and said,
00:13:28you know, here I am as an individual, I've invested 40 plus years of my life into the sport.
00:13:35And you guys obviously have also invested an equal percentage of your lives because we love
00:13:41the sport. We're addicted to it. Good or bad, we're addicted to it. And we're trying to do
00:13:46the right thing for the industry. And unfortunately, I just don't feel like that there's enough
00:13:52energy behind that statement by the powers that be, even so much so that when you thought it was
00:13:58going to be named as the broker of this, as the adult in the room that we like to say,
00:14:04there were still groups of horsemen that were fighting it, legally fighting it to try to make
00:14:10sure that we didn't have a centralized group of rules and regulations and penalties.
00:14:18And that blows my mind that people are so shortsighted to be willing to keep the status
00:14:25quo. So you know what? It looks like we're going to have the status quo. And every year,
00:14:28we're going to be reduced in the number of people involved and the amount of money that's involved
00:14:34until the point where we look back and say, oh, we could have made a change for the better.
00:14:39And we could have made a change for it to improve the horses and the racing and the
00:14:45bedding product and all those things. And it went by the wayside because we as an industry
00:14:50couldn't get our crap together and make it so. And not that the horse industry is the same as
00:14:58the global issues like climate, but it's almost like the climate issue where for years and years
00:15:03and years, people said, scientists and environmentalists said, hey, we got to stop
00:15:08doing this. We have to stop doing this. We have to stop doing this. And if we don't do it by a
00:15:11certain point, then we're past the point of no return. And most of the nations said, it's too
00:15:16expensive. I'm not going to do that. And now we're almost at the point of no return. Well, as an
00:15:20industry, I think we're at the point of no return. If we can't get somebody, I hope it's USADA. But
00:15:26if it's not, if we can't get somebody to come in and police us, then we're just going to be doomed
00:15:31to be a shell of what we've been over the past decades. The CDN Writer's Room was brought to
00:15:38you by Keeneland. As I mentioned, the Keeneland January Horses of All Ages sale is right around
00:15:42the corner. It's next week, January 10th through the 13th. You can find the catalog
00:15:46at January.keeneland.com. It's less than a week away. Last week, Keeneland announced the addition
00:15:51of seven supplements to the catalog, including Math Wizard, who, if you remember, won the 2019
00:15:55Pennsylvania Derby. They also announced that the final offering of the opening session on Monday
00:16:00will include a 2022 no-guarantee season for this year's leading first cropsire gunrunner.
00:16:06The season will be auctioned to raise funds for people affected by the recent catastrophic
00:16:11tornadoes in western Kentucky. So shout out to Ron Winchell and people at Three Chimneys
00:16:15for sponsoring that. And with these latest supplements, the January sale catalog now
00:16:19consists of a total of 1,626 lots, something for everybody. So definitely get involved.
00:16:25We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:28Start the new year strong at the Keeneland January Horses of All Ages sale.
00:16:40Make the most of your 2022. With a new year comes new, exciting opportunities at Keeneland.
00:16:46Be there at the first sale of the year, beginning January 10th.
00:16:52Respect the law. He's earned it. A grade one winning juvenile.
00:16:58Tis the law pops the cork in the champagne.
00:17:01A classic winning three year old.
00:17:03Tis the law is going to win the first leg of the triple crown.
00:17:08Five triple digit bars.
00:17:10The best son of Red Hot Sire Constitution.
00:17:22He's left the others behind. He's going to win the Run Happy Travers.
00:17:26Tis the law.
00:17:29The TDN Writer's Room was brought to you by Coolmore.
00:17:32Munnings, always very popular and in the news.
00:17:35Munnings is off to a great start in 2022 with three stakes winners on Saturday.
00:17:39The TDN Rising Star Shahama in the UAE 1000 Guineas Trial.
00:17:43Sir Alfred James in the Holiday Cheer Stakes.
00:17:46And then undefeated Dash Attack in the Smarty Jones Stakes.
00:17:49So I think we're going to talk about a little bit later.
00:17:51Another potential derby contender for Ken McPeak.
00:17:54Another Ashford Sire who's off to a great start this year is, guess who?
00:17:58Cupid!
00:17:59The new unofficial mascot of the show.
00:18:01We talk about Cupid every week and with good reason.
00:18:03He recorded his 24th winner on Saturday.
00:18:06Won Mouse High.
00:18:06Won a maiden special weight at Turfway.
00:18:08He finished in the top five freshman sires in multiple categories in 2021.
00:18:13And he stands for just $5,000 this year.
00:18:15Think about it.
00:18:17Just to pick up on that conversation from the last segment.
00:18:21John mentioned the HBPAs that are against this.
00:18:25I thought it was really funny.
00:18:27This is why I don't read the comments on YouTube.
00:18:29Last week, last time on the show, I was like,
00:18:31I would love to have one of these guys on the show and talk about it.
00:18:34And let's have a discussion.
00:18:37Let's hear your side of it.
00:18:38And someone in the comments was like,
00:18:41why don't you have someone on the show instead of just yelling at them every week?
00:18:44It's like, that's exactly what I suggested.
00:18:46And, you know, one of the candidates could be Eric Hamilback.
00:18:48We'll be happy to talk to him.
00:18:50He's the NHBPA president.
00:18:54I think it's HBPA.
00:18:55This might be a typo.
00:18:56The National HBPA.
00:18:58NHBPA.
00:18:59I get them a little confused sometimes.
00:19:01Well, let's hear his statement in reaction to the announcement
00:19:05that USADA would not be coming on board.
00:19:07Quote, the National HBPA continues to stand steadfast behind our belief
00:19:12that the HIZA Act is, first of all, HIZA Act is, it's redundant.
00:19:16The A is for act.
00:19:19Anyway, is an unconstitutional delegation of authority to a private organization.
00:19:23With that said, after the events announced today,
00:19:26we hope members of the authority take into strong consideration
00:19:29partnering with an enforcement agency that understands the nuances
00:19:33of the horse racing industry and recognizes
00:19:35the significant positive strides this industry
00:19:37has made in both safety and integrity.
00:19:39Now would be a perfect opportunity for the authority to mesh
00:19:42the safety regulations that have been put forth
00:19:44with the best of the model rules currently established
00:19:47throughout the United States.
00:19:48And my question is, what are those rules that are working so well?
00:19:52Please tell me, please tell me the model rules
00:19:55that are doing so well in racing right now to catch cheaters
00:19:59and to give the appearance of a cleaner sport,
00:20:02which we supposedly all want.
00:20:04That is my, that's always been my issue.
00:20:06I'm not saying that the HBPAs don't have any legitimate gripes
00:20:10or legitimate concerns.
00:20:11I'm sure they do, especially in terms of costs,
00:20:13but there is never any specific argument for the current system
00:20:18or even for a different system than USADA coming in.
00:20:21There's never any kind of, you know, pointing at,
00:20:24here's what we're doing well, here's who, well,
00:20:27here's who would be better to take the reins than USADA.
00:20:30You know, I get the idea that USADA doesn't have
00:20:32a horse racing background, and you might be a little bit
00:20:34concerned someone coming in from outside, but I don't know.
00:20:38I talked, we talked to Travis Tiger multiple times.
00:20:41We talked to Tessa Muir.
00:20:42There's plenty of smart people that they have who know
00:20:45the business, who are trying to come in and do the right thing.
00:20:48I think it's just a cop-out and a catch-all to say,
00:20:51well, they don't know racing.
00:20:52They don't have a racing background.
00:20:53We need someone with a racing background.
00:20:55I don't know.
00:20:56My issue is the same as it always been with these kinds
00:20:59of statements and the lawsuits.
00:21:00What is your alternative?
00:21:02And we never get it.
00:21:03We never get any specific alternative.
00:21:06And it just seems like you're protecting the status quo
00:21:10because it's been good for you.
00:21:11Bill, John, what do you guys think?
00:21:13Yeah, I mean, I totally agree, Joe.
00:21:15You know, look in the mirror and you should say,
00:21:18are things okay now?
00:21:20And no logical, rational person could say they are okay.
00:21:24So therefore they need to change.
00:21:26USADA comes in, Horse Racing Integrity and Safety Act
00:21:29comes in with a major agent of change.
00:21:33We're going to blow this thing up
00:21:34and it's going to make it a lot different.
00:21:37I just want to mirror everything you say.
00:21:38What is your solution then?
00:21:40We never hear anything about that.
00:21:42And if you don't offer any solutions,
00:21:44then that only leads me to believe that you're okay
00:21:46with the status quo and how anybody can be okay
00:21:48with the status quo is beyond me.
00:21:50And matter of fact, I've said and written this before.
00:21:52I think horseman's groups, and some are,
00:21:54it's not universal among the horseman's groups.
00:21:57For instance, the New York Thoroughbred Horseman's
00:22:00Association is in favor of HISA,
00:22:03but they should be, horseman's groups should be
00:22:06more on board with this than perhaps anybody else.
00:22:10Because every time a guy cheats and wins a race,
00:22:13he's stealing money from an honest horseman.
00:22:17And that is what has to stop.
00:22:20I mean, that is to me one of the biggest problems
00:22:23with all this.
00:22:24And so I think Eric Hamilbacks of the world
00:22:28should be out there leading the charge to make this happen.
00:22:30I don't get it.
00:22:31I don't understand.
00:22:33Maybe it's just because people don't like change.
00:22:35Maybe they are okay with the status quo.
00:22:37I don't know how anybody could be.
00:22:39Maybe they are.
00:22:41Yeah, and I don't want to beat that horse.
00:22:44I mean, last year that we did,
00:22:46I went on a rant and talked about how disappointing it was.
00:22:50Not only that you're not in favor of this,
00:22:51but if you're not in favor of it,
00:22:52tell us what you are in favor of.
00:22:54Give us a plan, by rote,
00:22:58exactly what you want to implement
00:23:00and who you want to have police it,
00:23:03and then see if that's any better.
00:23:04You know what?
00:23:04If it is better, great.
00:23:06Then the industry will be better.
00:23:08But don't just continue to throw...
00:23:10I say that, use the term,
00:23:12don't piss on my Cheerios and not have an alternative.
00:23:15And right now, we don't have a good alternative.
00:23:18And the thing is, it is a massive undertaking
00:23:22to try to get all of this mess that we have
00:23:26in American racing under one umbrella
00:23:28and to unify the drug enforcement and the drug policy.
00:23:31It's a huge undertaking.
00:23:33So it's not as if any half-ass group or organization
00:23:38can come off the sidelines and just pick this up
00:23:40and say, okay, now we got it.
00:23:42You need someone who has the kind of infrastructure
00:23:44and the kind of connections that USADA has in the first place.
00:23:47That's why it was such a blessing and such a godsend
00:23:50that USADA was even considering getting involved
00:23:52with us in the first place
00:23:53because you can't just have anybody do this.
00:23:56It needs to be someone with the credibility
00:23:58that they've done it on a world stage
00:23:59or even on a national stage.
00:24:02There's a reason that nobody else has been able to do this.
00:24:05And I think there are people in the industry
00:24:06who have tried to get this house in order,
00:24:08but they just can't do it
00:24:09because they don't have the wherewithal.
00:24:11They don't have the clout, honestly, that USADA has.
00:24:14And that was apparent from the jump.
00:24:16So yeah, I agree that there's never been any alternative
00:24:21proffered from these horsemen's groups to say,
00:24:23here's what we should do to clean up the game.
00:24:26We don't think that this is the right thing.
00:24:28Here's the way to go.
00:24:29And again, I think it's because too many people
00:24:33have benefited from the status quo.
00:24:35And like Bill says, if you're a small to mid-level trainer,
00:24:39this should be your number one goal
00:24:41is to get this stuff in order
00:24:42and to get this stuff together
00:24:43so that the people who are cheating you
00:24:45and are stealing money from you
00:24:47finally get what's coming to them.
00:24:48And we saw one of them, we saw one guy
00:24:50get what was coming to him.
00:24:51We're going to talk about him a little later
00:24:53and Jorge Navarro,
00:24:54but there are a ton of other bad apples in this industry.
00:24:58Some of them have been on this show
00:24:59that everybody knows is are taking an edge
00:25:03and are gaming the system.
00:25:05And you should, as a small to mid-level trainer,
00:25:07you should want them to be found out
00:25:10and to be flushed out of the game.
00:25:11And I just, I don't understand like,
00:25:14maybe it's the nature of unions
00:25:16and these like union boards
00:25:18and these union presidents that,
00:25:20you know, they speak for everybody.
00:25:21They don't necessarily speak for everybody,
00:25:23you know, in effect,
00:25:24but they speak for everybody
00:25:25when they put out these statements.
00:25:26And I just think there's got to be so many people
00:25:29in those unions and those associations
00:25:31that just, you know,
00:25:33they feel like they're getting screwed
00:25:34and maybe they've been convinced
00:25:35that this is not the way to rectify that.
00:25:38But, you know, there's just never,
00:25:39there's never any alternative.
00:25:41And that's the frustrating part
00:25:42is that we're all, you know,
00:25:45no one's saying that this is going to be easy.
00:25:46No one's saying that reform is going to be easy
00:25:48and it's going to be turbulent
00:25:50and there's going to be starts and stops.
00:25:52But if you don't even have the right people in place
00:25:55to control it and to, I don't know,
00:25:59just to have the right authority in place
00:26:02to really set everything,
00:26:03set all the rules and unify everything,
00:26:06then you got nothing.
00:26:07If you don't have that entity,
00:26:09you don't have anything.
00:26:10And right now we got nothing.
00:26:11We got some safety reforms,
00:26:12which is nice,
00:26:13but a bunch of tracks are doing that
00:26:15on their own anyway.
00:26:16This was the crux.
00:26:17This was the meat on the bone of HIZA
00:26:20was USADA getting involved
00:26:21and taking over the drug enforcement.
00:26:23And now we don't have that.
00:26:24So now we don't have a hell of a lot.
00:26:26And it's unfortunate too,
00:26:27in the way that, you know,
00:26:28we talked to Tom Rooney about this
00:26:29on our last show of the year,
00:26:31having that case to make,
00:26:33having that story to tell
00:26:35when something tragic happens,
00:26:36where you can say,
00:26:38this is tragic, this is terrible,
00:26:39but the industry has gone
00:26:41under a massive revolution of reform.
00:26:45Here is what we're doing.
00:26:46We've gotten these people
00:26:48that have so much credibility
00:26:49and so much clout to come in
00:26:51and fix the game for us.
00:26:54It's just not going to happen now.
00:26:55And it's beyond unfortunate
00:26:58that we don't even,
00:26:58we don't have that story to tell anymore.
00:27:00We can't say,
00:27:01yeah, things are a little messy sometimes,
00:27:03but here's what we're doing to fix it.
00:27:05The other unfortunate thing about it is,
00:27:07you know, we talked about this with Tom Rooney
00:27:10on the last show of the year,
00:27:11is to have kind of a positive PR push
00:27:14in racing when we do have scandals
00:27:15and we do have controversies
00:27:17and, you know, catastrophic things
00:27:19like Medina Spirit dying.
00:27:21It would behoove us to have something
00:27:23to point to and say,
00:27:25you know, yeah, this is tragic.
00:27:27And unfortunately, stuff like this
00:27:28still happens in racing.
00:27:30But here is the massive revolution of reform
00:27:33that we're going through right now
00:27:34to make sure stuff like this
00:27:36doesn't happen as often.
00:27:37We can't even point to that anymore.
00:27:39We can't even say that we're trying our best
00:27:41to make everything better
00:27:42and to make everything safer
00:27:43because we're not doing that anymore.
00:27:45And, you know, maybe that'll change down the line
00:27:48and USADA will come back aboard
00:27:49or some other unknown entity
00:27:51will take the reins.
00:27:52But yeah, we can't even credibly say
00:27:55that we're doing everything we can
00:27:56to protect the horses
00:27:58and make racing drug-free
00:27:59because we're not doing that anymore.
00:28:01And that's a real shame
00:28:02because like I said before,
00:28:04I think there are a lot of reform-minded people
00:28:05in the business right now,
00:28:06a lot of people who have gotten
00:28:08their stuff together on this
00:28:09and have gotten behind this,
00:28:10but we just can't credibly say
00:28:12that we're doing our best anymore.
00:28:14And that's a real shame.
00:28:15That's a real shame.
00:28:17The PDN Writer's Room is brought to you
00:28:19by Lane's End Farm.
00:28:20The Lane's End Stallion of the Week this week
00:28:22is the Factor,
00:28:23sort of war front,
00:28:24and stands for $17,500 this year.
00:28:27In 2021, he had multiple graded stakes winner
00:28:29Charmaine Zmia,
00:28:30as well as grade two Shaker Town stakes winner
00:28:32Bound for Nowhere.
00:28:33And he was a top 10 general sire in America in 2020.
00:28:36We'll be right back after this message
00:28:38from Lane's End Farm.
00:28:40Connect, the next in line to carry on Lane's End's
00:28:43tried and true stallion tradition.
00:28:45A grade one winning millionaire son of Curlin,
00:28:48physically impressive and dominant on the track.
00:28:51Winner of the grade one Cigar Mile
00:28:53and the grade two Pennsylvania Derby,
00:28:55where he defeated Gunrunner, Nyquist and Exaggerator.
00:28:59With multiple six-figure yearlings in his first crop,
00:29:02up to $360,000.
00:29:05Connect, a proven winner on the track,
00:29:07a proven stallion in the making.
00:29:34The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by XBTV.
00:29:382021 grade one Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile winner,
00:29:41Life is Good, is this week's Workout of the Week.
00:29:43He worked five furlongs at Palm Beach Downs
00:29:46on New Year's Eve.
00:29:46It was his third work there in December
00:29:49as he prepares for his next start in the Pegasus World Cup,
00:29:51which is looking to be a pretty awesome showdown
00:29:53with classic winner, Nick's Go.
00:29:55See if they go at each other early,
00:29:57that should be super, super exciting.
00:29:59And it's also a great way to get a look at
00:30:00what's going on in the world of dirt.
00:30:02That should be super, super exciting.
00:30:04And it's always great to see those big time three-year-olds
00:30:07working towards their four-year-old campaign.
00:30:09And we hope for a long and very impressive campaign
00:30:12from Life is Good in 2022.
00:30:13So we're looking forward to that.
00:30:15And as always, if you want to see those contenders
00:30:17working for their big races, check out xbtv.com.
00:30:21So we got all the nasty stuff out of the way.
00:30:23And we're going to be whistling past the graveyard
00:30:26continually until something comes about
00:30:28and we have someone come clean up our mess.
00:30:30But that doesn't mean that there weren't,
00:30:31there aren't great performances on the racetrack
00:30:33to celebrate and to talk about.
00:30:35And I don't know if you could find a more exciting
00:30:37performance than what Flightline did
00:30:39in the Malibu on December 26th.
00:30:41This was, honestly, it was hard for him to live up
00:30:44to the hype because there was so much hype
00:30:47and so much juice on him going into the,
00:30:50not juice in the pejorative sense,
00:30:52juice in terms of, just to be clear,
00:30:55juice in terms of enthusiasm around him
00:30:59going into this race.
00:31:00Like off of his first two races,
00:31:02like he could not have been more impressive.
00:31:04And the Malibu was a pretty good field.
00:31:05Like, I don't think there are any other
00:31:06superstars in the race, but it was not,
00:31:08you know, a low level, you know,
00:31:11four horse grade one, like we see
00:31:12sometimes throughout the year.
00:31:14And man, did he go fast and keep going
00:31:17and just was galloping through the stretch.
00:31:19And we're going to talk to Flavien Pratt
00:31:21in a little bit about him and just
00:31:24how exciting can a horse possibly be?
00:31:26This is a little blasphemous for me
00:31:27because he's my favorite horse of all time.
00:31:29And I think it's the fastest horse
00:31:30of the 20th century, 21st century, rather.
00:31:33I haven't seen a horse this good,
00:31:35this impressive, this potential
00:31:37laid in since Go Sapper.
00:31:39And, you know, I hope that Fightline
00:31:41can stick around, you know, Go Sapper.
00:31:42The only thing about him was that
00:31:43he didn't run all that often.
00:31:45He ran only three or four times a year.
00:31:47I've seen some quotes from John Sadler
00:31:49about how they're going to be
00:31:50very, very careful with him,
00:31:51which I get, which I totally understand.
00:31:53But at the same time, if the horses sound
00:31:55like this, this is a horse you need
00:31:57to share with the world
00:31:59because he's just one of a kind.
00:32:01He's a generational talent.
00:32:02You got a 118 buyer in the Malibu
00:32:06when, like I said, just basically
00:32:07cantering throughout the entire stretch.
00:32:09I posted a screenshot on my Twitter
00:32:11after the race of him on the Gallop Out.
00:32:14Just how far he is ahead
00:32:16of everyone on the Gallop Out.
00:32:18That to me was what was so amazing
00:32:20is not just how fast he is,
00:32:22but how effortless he looks
00:32:24when he's running.
00:32:25I don't know.
00:32:26You tell me, guys.
00:32:27Who's the last horse
00:32:28that got you this excited?
00:32:30Boy, Joe, that's a good question.
00:32:31I mean, the analogy is the GOSAP
00:32:32are very appropriate because they
00:32:34he looks like he's going to have
00:32:35not only that kind of ability,
00:32:37but maybe that unfortunate
00:32:38that kind of campaign
00:32:39with just a few races here and there.
00:32:41You know, that's one of the
00:32:42sidebars to this.
00:32:44You know, I mean,
00:32:45if even if he stays sound,
00:32:46we're probably going to get to see him
00:32:47seven, eight times in his entire life,
00:32:49which is such a shame.
00:32:50But again, you know, that's
00:32:52that's the way the game
00:32:52is played these days.
00:32:54You know, I think in some respects,
00:32:56you're afraid to go overboard.
00:32:58You don't want to be the guy
00:32:59that overhyped a horse.
00:33:01You want to be a guy who
00:33:02after he runs seventh in the mile,
00:33:04you look back and you look silly
00:33:06because you said this was
00:33:07the greatest thing since
00:33:08far lap or whatever.
00:33:09But I'm not afraid to believe
00:33:12that this could be
00:33:13one of the greatest horses
00:33:14we've ever seen in our lifetimes.
00:33:16I mean, what we saw on the racetrack
00:33:19was, as you said,
00:33:20it's even hard to put into words.
00:33:21It was absolutely phenomenal
00:33:23running, you know, running away from a
00:33:25you're right, a good field.
00:33:26I'm Dr. Scheibel.
00:33:27I know he didn't run his race,
00:33:28but he lost the Breeders' Cup
00:33:29sprint by a nose
00:33:31and was a grade one winner
00:33:33beating older horses.
00:33:34And he just I mean,
00:33:36not only beat him by a lot of lengths,
00:33:38but did so completely effortlessly.
00:33:42You know, who does he compare to?
00:33:44Yeah, go sapper.
00:33:45Who knows?
00:33:45Maybe he'll be proved
00:33:46to be better than that.
00:33:48You know, that's what is
00:33:49so phenomenal about this.
00:33:50It's the possibilities
00:33:53of what this horse is
00:33:54and what he can do
00:33:55and what we're seeing are limitless.
00:33:57And we shouldn't be afraid to say,
00:33:59yeah, hey, I mean, you know,
00:34:01when we're all older and grayer,
00:34:03you know, we sit back
00:34:0525, 30 years from now,
00:34:06we can say, boy,
00:34:07remember that flight line.
00:34:08He was maybe the best I ever saw.
00:34:10Now, I know that's going to come back
00:34:11and want me to say that.
00:34:12But you know what?
00:34:13I didn't say he's the best
00:34:14we've ever saw,
00:34:15but I'm saying it's possible
00:34:18that we someday could
00:34:19be making those statements
00:34:20like people said about Franklin.
00:34:21And you watch a race like that.
00:34:23And this is what we should be
00:34:24talking about, first and foremost,
00:34:25is just the impressiveness
00:34:28of our athletes when they are
00:34:30at the peak of their game.
00:34:32And flight line was a million
00:34:33dollar horse at auction,
00:34:36bred, you know, royally,
00:34:38you know, tap it.
00:34:39It was one of the best
00:34:39sires of our generation
00:34:41out of Indian,
00:34:42an Indian Charlie mare
00:34:43in the Charlie
00:34:44only had a couple of crops,
00:34:45but he is, you know,
00:34:47stamping himself
00:34:47as an important gene pool
00:34:50in our industry as well.
00:34:51And when you get them together
00:34:52and you get this kind of an athlete
00:34:54who can do what he did,
00:34:55which is go out, break easy,
00:34:5722, 44, 108 and three
00:35:00and still finish up in a sub 12,
00:35:03you know, last wrong in a hand ride.
00:35:05It sends shivers down your spine.
00:35:07And I was trying to remember
00:35:10other races where I stood there
00:35:11or other times where I stood there
00:35:13and was just in awe of a horse.
00:35:15And, you know, Ghost Zapper,
00:35:17when I was there,
00:35:18when he won the Island
00:35:19in a hand ride,
00:35:20you know, at Monmouth Park.
00:35:21And granted, that wasn't a grade one.
00:35:23And it certainly wasn't
00:35:24a grade one caliber group,
00:35:25you know, like like what
00:35:27Flightline just ran against.
00:35:28But it was that kind of
00:35:29awe inspiring race.
00:35:32Obviously, you know,
00:35:33you can look back
00:35:34and my favorite horse,
00:35:36I mean, you know,
00:35:37when she broke the track record
00:35:38in the sprint
00:35:40a couple of years ago at Keeneland
00:35:42and there were four
00:35:44grade one winners in that race.
00:35:45I mean, that was an impressive,
00:35:47impressive win for her
00:35:48after an awkward start as well.
00:35:51But the other time
00:35:52that I can honestly remember
00:35:54getting goosebumps
00:35:55standing on the rail at a racetrack
00:35:57watching a horse perform
00:35:58was Unbridled Song
00:35:59as a two year old
00:36:01at the Undertax show.
00:36:03And here's a horse
00:36:04that only went an eighth of a mile,
00:36:06OK, and went in 10 seconds,
00:36:07which in today's day and age,
00:36:09you say, big deal.
00:36:10Everyone goes in 10 seconds,
00:36:11you know, 10 and one.
00:36:12It's not a big deal.
00:36:13But he was the first one
00:36:14that went 10 flat
00:36:15and everyone was hand timing it.
00:36:17And I remember just everyone
00:36:19holding their breath,
00:36:20looking at their clocks,
00:36:21comparing it to other people's
00:36:23stopwatches to see if they also
00:36:25got 10 seconds flat.
00:36:26And the comment that
00:36:28that the announcer made
00:36:30when Unbridled Song hit the wire
00:36:31in 10 seconds flat,
00:36:33he said, 10 seconds,
00:36:35Unbridled Song,
00:36:37and the horse moved so effortlessly
00:36:39that the trees swayed.
00:36:42And that was like
00:36:43one of those seminal moments
00:36:45in my mind of just
00:36:46an athlete just outperforming
00:36:49anyone's expectations.
00:36:50So, you know,
00:36:51Unbridled Song going
00:36:52an eighth of a mile,
00:36:53OK, you know,
00:36:54Go Sapper winning the Island
00:36:55against not a great,
00:36:56you know, necessarily field
00:36:58at Monmouth that year.
00:36:59OK, Gamine winning the Breeders' Cup,
00:37:01you know, sprint,
00:37:03Filomena sprinting
00:37:04and breaking a track record.
00:37:06And then I really feel like
00:37:07that flight line supersedes
00:37:09all of those races.
00:37:10And the only other thing
00:37:11I can say right now
00:37:13of a horse that, you know,
00:37:14I wasn't there to witness it.
00:37:16I've only seen video was,
00:37:18you know, when Secretariat
00:37:19won the Belmont by 30 plus lines
00:37:21to cap, you know,
00:37:22his horse of the year
00:37:23campaign at that point.
00:37:25And that to me would have been
00:37:28a little bit better of a performance
00:37:29than maybe flight line.
00:37:30But flight line still,
00:37:31this is only the third race
00:37:33of his career.
00:37:33And he still has,
00:37:35as Bill so curmudgeonly said,
00:37:36only seven or eight more races.
00:37:37Well, hopefully we'll love
00:37:39those seven or eight more races
00:37:40and they'll continue to build
00:37:42and grow and do the right thing
00:37:44by the horse, by, you know,
00:37:47spotting him, you know,
00:37:48in the right kind of races.
00:37:49And I hope the horse does continue
00:37:51to improve and fulfill his destiny
00:37:53because, you know,
00:37:54you don't see it too many times
00:37:56where you buy a horse
00:37:56for a million dollars or more
00:37:58and they actually, you know,
00:38:01they go past, they exceed their,
00:38:03yeah, this is only third race
00:38:06of his career, guys.
00:38:07I mean, he's got a lot of racing
00:38:08ahead of him, hopefully.
00:38:09And I just can't wait to sit by
00:38:11and it's going to be must see TV
00:38:13every time he runs.
00:38:15Yeah, I mean, there's not
00:38:16that many times where the million
00:38:17dollars seems like
00:38:18a massive bargain, right?
00:38:19You know, sometimes maybe
00:38:21you'll feel like, okay,
00:38:22well, I got my money's worth.
00:38:23This seems like a major,
00:38:24major bargain.
00:38:25And, you know, the problem is like,
00:38:27I kind of wish he was,
00:38:28he wasn't a million dollar horse.
00:38:30I kind of wish he was, you know,
00:38:32a $20,000 horse by a stallion
00:38:34who is not necessarily as fancy
00:38:37because he's just,
00:38:38he's going to be so valuable
00:38:39and the more he does that,
00:38:41it's just at a certain point,
00:38:42it's going to, it's going to make,
00:38:43it's not going to make financial sense
00:38:45to keep running him when he's worth
00:38:46so much money.
00:38:47And that's the problem.
00:38:49And, you know, Bill,
00:38:50Bill was saying seven or eight times
00:38:52total, I think, which.
00:38:55Yeah, John,
00:38:59for now, I was only going to have
00:39:00a handful of races then,
00:39:01because this time next year,
00:39:02he'll be standing at stud somewhere.
00:39:04So really it's through November,
00:39:06basically, of course.
00:39:07And, you know, and I get it
00:39:09and I understand the economics
00:39:11of the business.
00:39:11But if you want to talk about,
00:39:13you know, legend,
00:39:14if you want to talk about
00:39:14the legends of the game
00:39:15and John, you brought up Secretariat,
00:39:17people are going to be very mad at you
00:39:18for bringing up Secretariat.
00:39:20He was good at Secretariat.
00:39:23I got you.
00:39:24I just think some people
00:39:25are going to hear Secretariat
00:39:26and be like, be red
00:39:27and bring out the pitchforks for you.
00:39:29So I'm just warning you about that.
00:39:31But no, but if,
00:39:32but if you think about Secretariat
00:39:34and the Horses of the Past,
00:39:35they ran a lot more,
00:39:37you know, obviously,
00:39:38everyone recommend,
00:39:39remembers Secretariat's Belmont,
00:39:41but he ran a bunch of other
00:39:42great races that established him
00:39:44as like the greatest
00:39:45of the 20th of the 20th century.
00:39:47And, you know, horses right now,
00:39:49nowadays, they just
00:39:50they don't even get that opportunity.
00:39:51And that's that's
00:39:52the unfortunate part about it
00:39:53is that, you know, Flightline,
00:39:55you know, pound for pound talent wise,
00:39:58it's him and Ghostzapper.
00:39:59That's it for me in terms of
00:40:01horses that I've seen.
00:40:02And I've been watching racing
00:40:03since the early 2000s.
00:40:05That's the only two.
00:40:06But is Flightline going to
00:40:08stick around long enough
00:40:09to even have Ghostzapper's
00:40:11level of achievement?
00:40:12Because Ghostzapper won
00:40:13the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:40:13He was Horse of the Year.
00:40:14He won the Met Mile.
00:40:16You know, that's that's
00:40:17what remains to be seen.
00:40:18But nevertheless,
00:40:19you start your career.
00:40:22105 buyer, 114 buyer,
00:40:24118 buyer and a canter.
00:40:27There's just there's
00:40:28there's nothing to say
00:40:29other than he is
00:40:30he is brilliant to find.
00:40:32And John Sadler said next,
00:40:33he's probably going to go.
00:40:34He's going to try to stretch
00:40:35him out a little bit
00:40:36to a mile or a mile on the 16th.
00:40:38We'll see what kind of spot
00:40:39that ends up being like.
00:40:40I don't know if they want
00:40:41to go to the Saudi Cup
00:40:41or the Dubai World Cup just yet.
00:40:44Probably going to take
00:40:45bring him along a little
00:40:46bit more slowly.
00:40:47But good luck getting
00:40:48anybody to show up
00:40:48to race against him,
00:40:50unless it's for,
00:40:51you know, seven figures and up,
00:40:53because I don't think
00:40:53anybody wants to get
00:40:54annihilated like the horses
00:40:56he beat in the Malibu.
00:40:57Let me just interrupt for one second,
00:40:58because you mentioned
00:40:59we keep comparing the Ghostzapper
00:41:00and everything like that.
00:41:01I think the analogy is
00:41:02even closer than you think.
00:41:03Joe and Bill,
00:41:04do you know how many times
00:41:05without looking it up?
00:41:05Do you know how many times
00:41:06Ghostzapper ran?
00:41:08Probably like 10 laps,
00:41:10nine or so.
00:41:11Yeah, exactly.
00:41:12He ran 11 times in his career.
00:41:14So if this horse runs
00:41:15seven or eight more times,
00:41:16he's also going to have
00:41:17a 10 or 11 race.
00:41:18I mean, it's.
00:41:21You keep saying that
00:41:22that's not going to happen.
00:41:23He's not going to run
00:41:24seven or eight times more.
00:41:25I mean, he's pretty much said that.
00:41:28I mean, he would.
00:41:29He says.
00:41:30Oh, no, no, no.
00:41:32He's not a lifetime star.
00:41:34I'm sorry.
00:41:35No, seven or eight more times
00:41:36from now would be great.
00:41:38I think Bill was saying total.
00:41:40Yeah, but I don't want
00:41:42I don't want to get bogged down on that.
00:41:43I don't want to like
00:41:44I don't want to focus
00:41:45on the negative here.
00:41:46I want to focus on the positive
00:41:48of having a horse like this
00:41:50for everyone to be able to see
00:41:51because he is something special.
00:41:54And that's the reason that
00:41:55I think, you know,
00:41:56you might want to run him more
00:41:58and might want to send him
00:41:59around the country
00:42:00to different racetracks,
00:42:01because especially now
00:42:03with the business
00:42:03being in such precarious
00:42:06such a precarious position,
00:42:08a lot of people feeling
00:42:09really bad, I think, justifiably.
00:42:11So about the direction
00:42:12of the industry, horses like this
00:42:14are what remind people of why
00:42:17they are passionate about the game
00:42:18and why they follow the game.
00:42:20So watch the kind of brilliance
00:42:21that we saw in the Malibu.
00:42:22I can send chills up your spine.
00:42:24And I want to give a shout out
00:42:25to Katie to our associate producer
00:42:27who did a story in today's TDN
00:42:29with April Mayberry of Mayberry Farm,
00:42:31who helped raise Flightline
00:42:32when he was a yearling.
00:42:34That was a great story
00:42:35and a lot of great quotes in it.
00:42:37And it's just it's just
00:42:38he's the kind of horse that
00:42:39that everybody can can rally around
00:42:41and the appointment viewing.
00:42:44And I think Frankel
00:42:44is a good comparison to Bill.
00:42:46I don't want to slight our euro
00:42:47viewers and listeners
00:42:48because he's he's the last horse
00:42:50I remember having that kind of buzz.
00:42:51But yeah, it was
00:42:52it was phenomenal to watch.
00:42:53And and we'll be we'll be grateful
00:42:55for every time we see him run,
00:42:57however many times that may be.
00:42:59The TDN Writers Room
00:43:00was brought to you by Three Chimneys.
00:43:01We mentioned earlier
00:43:02that Three Chimneys is offering
00:43:03a 2022 no guarantee season
00:43:05the gunrunner to benefit
00:43:06those affected by the tornadoes
00:43:08in western Kentucky of the upcoming
00:43:09Keeneland January sale.
00:43:10So shout out to them
00:43:12for helping the cause.
00:43:13Gunrunner was the leading
00:43:14first crop sire last year,
00:43:15as we know, with top performers,
00:43:16including Breeders' Cup champion
00:43:18and presumptive Eclipse
00:43:19champion Echo Zulu.
00:43:20Hopeful winner Guneye,
00:43:22Breeders' Cup juvenile
00:43:23runner up Papa Cap as well.
00:43:24Stands for a fee of $125,000 in 2022.
00:43:28I'm sure breeders are
00:43:29beating down the door
00:43:30even at that price.
00:43:31John, I know you've run
00:43:32against a couple of gunrunners.
00:43:34Yeah, no, we've seen
00:43:35we've seen the ass end of
00:43:36a lot of really good gunrunners.
00:43:37The past six months.
00:43:38It's unbelievable.
00:43:39We ran against a $400,000 yearling
00:43:43called American Icon
00:43:44that's owned by Windstar
00:43:46and some other partners.
00:43:47And he just ran us off our feet.
00:43:49He won at Gulfstream.
00:43:50And then at the other major,
00:43:52you know, race circus,
00:43:54Cyberknife won very impressively
00:43:56at the fairgrounds.
00:43:57McLaren Vale and Flying Drummer
00:43:59both won at Santa Anita.
00:44:01So gunrunner, you know,
00:44:02again, as a racehorse owner,
00:44:05you look at the gunrunners
00:44:06and you say, wow,
00:44:06they're winning all over the place.
00:44:07And then as I put my breeders hat on,
00:44:09I, you know, we tried to get
00:44:11a couple of seasons to gunrunner.
00:44:13And my understanding is that
00:44:15he is basically sold out at $125,000,
00:44:18which is really, really impressive.
00:44:20So he's one of the top young
00:44:21up and coming stallions in our industry.
00:44:23And, you know, son of Candy Ride,
00:44:25he is just exploding all over the scene.
00:44:27And Joe and Billy,
00:44:28you got to figure that
00:44:29if his foals are anything
00:44:30like gunrunner himself,
00:44:31they're only going to get better.
00:44:33Yeah, I mean, and that's
00:44:35going to be the story.
00:44:35One of the stories to watch
00:44:36this year as well,
00:44:37it's to see how those horses do
00:44:38as three-year-olds and then
00:44:39into their four-year-old seasons.
00:44:41And just to piggyback
00:44:42off the last conversation
00:44:43we were talking about,
00:44:44we probably might not see flight line
00:44:45more than eight or nine times.
00:44:47Gunrunner and runner ran 19 times,
00:44:4919 times with 12 wins.
00:44:51That's, you know,
00:44:51by this generation standards,
00:44:55that's an iron horse.
00:44:55And he was there
00:44:56for a lot of big dances as well.
00:44:59So he definitely had that durability
00:45:00in addition to his brilliance.
00:45:02So definitely if you can get
00:45:03to gunrunner and get to him,
00:45:04I think the spots
00:45:05are pretty filled up.
00:45:06So we'll be right back
00:45:07after this message
00:45:08from Three Chimneys.
00:45:34In the Vanderbilt,
00:45:36one by two.
00:45:43Idle perfectly timed.
00:45:45Idle gets up under Joel Rosario
00:45:47to win the big cap.
00:45:49It's known agenda
00:45:50for Saint Elias Stiebel.
00:45:52Grace Adler, a scintillating performance
00:45:55in the TBD Del Mar debutant.
00:45:57And Claire Eyre will win
00:45:59the Cotillion.
00:46:00Down to the wire,
00:46:01who's going to win it?
00:46:03It's Mara Hunt by a net.
00:46:06Curlin, the classic sire.
00:46:11The TDN Writers Room
00:46:12is brought to you by Hillandale.
00:46:13Hillandale Sire Violence
00:46:14was represented by sham winner
00:46:15Newgrange over the weekend,
00:46:17as well as Queen of Thorns,
00:46:18who won on debut
00:46:19for trainer Peter Erden.
00:46:20Violence stands for a fee
00:46:21of $25,000 this year.
00:46:23Another Hillandale sire
00:46:25with a great stakes
00:46:25winner already this year
00:46:26is Kitten's Joy,
00:46:27my favorite turf sire of all time,
00:46:29whose daughter Luck
00:46:30won the grade three
00:46:31Robert Frankel stakes
00:46:32at Santa Anita for owner
00:46:33breeder Ellen J. Foxwoods
00:46:35and Gamine, who we talked
00:46:37about before.
00:46:38I feel very sad for John
00:46:40that he's losing Gamine
00:46:41to retirement.
00:46:43She obviously had a tremendous career,
00:46:45nine wins and 11 starts,
00:46:46five-time grade one winner, champion.
00:46:49She's actually going to be retired
00:46:50to Hillandale.
00:46:52Breeding plans are still
00:46:53being discussed right now,
00:46:54but she's going to be boarding
00:46:55at Hillandale in the meantime.
00:46:57So great career to Gamine
00:46:59and another feather in the cap
00:47:01at Hillandale to have her there.
00:47:03Now we're going to go to our interview
00:47:05yesterday with Flavien Pratt.
00:47:07Flavien obviously had a monster weekend,
00:47:09six wins on Saturday at Santa Anita,
00:47:11not a hotter jockey
00:47:12in Southern California,
00:47:13and we had a good time
00:47:14talking to Flavien.
00:47:15So here's our interview yesterday
00:47:16with Flavien Pratt.
00:47:18The Green Group Guest of the Week
00:47:19is sponsored by the Green Group,
00:47:20an accounting, tax, consulting
00:47:22and advisory firm specializing
00:47:23in the thoroughbred industry.
00:47:25With over 500 clients
00:47:26in the horse business,
00:47:27they have proven strategies
00:47:28to save you taxes.
00:47:29Learn more about how
00:47:30they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:47:34So we're beyond thrilled this week
00:47:35to welcome the man of the hour
00:47:37in California,
00:47:39fresh off a six win day on Saturday.
00:47:40Flavien Pratt,
00:47:41thanks so much for coming on.
00:47:43Well, thank you for having me.
00:47:44Great to meet you guys.
00:47:46It's yeah, it's great.
00:47:47It's great to talk to you.
00:47:48You know, I've been a big fan
00:47:49of yours for a while.
00:47:50I think you're pound for pound
00:47:51one of the best riders in the country.
00:47:53But I wanted to ask a little bit
00:47:54about your history
00:47:55because a lot of people
00:47:56don't know or remember
00:47:57that you were champion
00:47:58apprentice Jackie in France in 2009.
00:48:01And then things didn't really
00:48:02quite take off for you in France.
00:48:04And he came over to the US in 2015.
00:48:07And it seems kind of like
00:48:08you're an overnight superstar.
00:48:09Can you talk a little bit about
00:48:11that, about your transition
00:48:12from France to the US
00:48:14and why things are working
00:48:15out so much better here?
00:48:16Well, as you said,
00:48:18I was an apprentice in France.
00:48:22So things were going pretty well.
00:48:23And then, of course,
00:48:25I lost my my once.
00:48:27And then from that point,
00:48:28I got a little harder.
00:48:30But I mean, I was doing fine,
00:48:33not just not good enough.
00:48:36I had a few, you know,
00:48:38a few graded stakes win and.
00:48:42But it was just not
00:48:44what I was hoping.
00:48:45And and at the time,
00:48:48I was coming every winter
00:48:50to Santa Anita
00:48:52to get some experience
00:48:54and see different things.
00:48:55And there's a point
00:48:56where I decide to
00:48:58to stay in the country.
00:49:01Obviously, I was, you know,
00:49:05writing for Mr.
00:49:07Mondetta a little bit.
00:49:09So it definitely helped
00:49:12make a decision.
00:49:14I just want to ask a follow up
00:49:15on that, John, real quick, if I can.
00:49:17Was there anything about
00:49:18your riding style
00:49:19that you had to change
00:49:20from France to the US?
00:49:21Or did you still kind of
00:49:22ride the same way?
00:49:24Well, you have to adapt.
00:49:27Obviously, you have to adapt.
00:49:28It's in Europe,
00:49:31there's only grass and body tracks.
00:49:33So it's pretty much,
00:49:34you know, a different way
00:49:36of riding than the dirt.
00:49:39So I had to learn,
00:49:42you know, a few things on the dirt.
00:49:44But I really loved the races.
00:49:48So it was it was something
00:49:50that I enjoyed doing it.
00:49:52And and I still do.
00:49:55And when you come to the States
00:49:57and you have a day like you did
00:49:58on New Year's Day,
00:50:00where I can honestly say
00:50:01after being in the business
00:50:02for 40 years,
00:50:02I've never seen a day
00:50:03like this before,
00:50:04where every single one
00:50:05of your mouths you finish
00:50:06first or second,
00:50:07including winning the Franco,
00:50:09which is a grade three
00:50:10in Canada,
00:50:11which was also a grade three.
00:50:13Do you just like other athletes,
00:50:15you get into a zone
00:50:16where you're like every decision I make,
00:50:18I just feel really good about
00:50:19like walk us through that day
00:50:22that those six hours
00:50:24at the racetrack
00:50:24where you never finished
00:50:25worse than second.
00:50:26I've never seen that before.
00:50:27It was great.
00:50:28Well, in that particular day,
00:50:31not I didn't feel
00:50:32like I was in the zone.
00:50:33I just felt like I had.
00:50:35I mean, before the races,
00:50:38you could see my ride.
00:50:39I had some really good ride.
00:50:41It felt like I could have a good day.
00:50:44So and that's what happened.
00:50:45But no, I mean, these days,
00:50:48well, yeah, you definitely
00:50:49feel in the zone.
00:50:50And, you know,
00:50:51no matter what you want to do,
00:50:53it's going to go your way.
00:50:56But no, I just felt like
00:50:58I was on the right horses
00:51:01in the right race.
00:51:02And it went my way.
00:51:04So it was nice.
00:51:05It was really nice to.
00:51:07It was really a good way
00:51:09to start the year.
00:51:11I mean, six races,
00:51:12it's it's it's something
00:51:14that it's really hard to do.
00:51:15But everything went,
00:51:17like I say, everything went my way.
00:51:19I was on good horses
00:51:21and it was it was a great day.
00:51:24Yeah, and you rode
00:51:26some sprinters, some distance,
00:51:27some turf, some dirt.
00:51:29When you look at the entries
00:51:30and you're doing
00:51:31your pre-race analysis,
00:51:33you know, are there times
00:51:34where you're like, oh,
00:51:34I can't wait to get on this horse
00:51:37because I love this horse
00:51:38or because I love this distance?
00:51:39Do you have a preferred
00:51:41running style like like
00:51:42walk us through that
00:51:44when you're about to
00:51:45leg up onto a horse,
00:51:46what you're feeling is like
00:51:47when you have that kind of confidence?
00:51:49I don't have a running style
00:51:53that I like most.
00:51:54I just try to ride my horse
00:51:59with his ability
00:52:01and try to find out,
00:52:02you know, what he likes to do
00:52:03and what he doesn't like to do.
00:52:05That's pretty much it.
00:52:06Like I say, I really love
00:52:08dirt races in general.
00:52:09I just love the way
00:52:11the race unfold
00:52:12and the way the race are developing.
00:52:15I think it's
00:52:17it's right right from the gate.
00:52:18Good is, you know,
00:52:20there's something to watch
00:52:21and it's really interesting.
00:52:24But that's my personal opinion.
00:52:25But in in general,
00:52:27no, I don't have a,
00:52:28you know, preferred style.
00:52:31I got a stat for you.
00:52:33Flavian has has written
00:52:34six winners at Santa Anita
00:52:36three times in the past year.
00:52:38Before that, it happened twice
00:52:40total in 30 years at Santa Anita.
00:52:42So that that tells you
00:52:43the kind of role
00:52:44that he's on right now.
00:52:46I want to change gears
00:52:47and talk about flight line
00:52:48because I think that's the horse
00:52:49that everybody wants to talk about.
00:52:50Everybody's excited.
00:52:51I see the smile coming on your face,
00:52:53just bringing him up.
00:52:54I can't blame you for that.
00:52:56But just, you know, what is
00:52:57what's your impression of him?
00:52:58Because he's a horse
00:52:59that I think is a generational talent.
00:53:02Like, I don't think we've seen a horse
00:53:03like him in a long time.
00:53:05Just talk about how lucky you feel
00:53:06and how you feel riding him.
00:53:08What must it be like?
00:53:10Well, you can imagine
00:53:11the impression good.
00:53:13Just just a great, great animal.
00:53:16Just really athletic, powerful.
00:53:20He has about as of right now,
00:53:22he has about everything.
00:53:23You know, he has speed.
00:53:24He has it seems like
00:53:26he has stamina as well.
00:53:27So I mean, it's just a pleasure
00:53:29to ride him,
00:53:31try to enjoy every moment.
00:53:32And yeah, I mean, it's fun.
00:53:34It's you know, you never know
00:53:37what the future can bring for him.
00:53:38It's it's great.
00:53:39You know, sky's the limit with him.
00:53:41Yeah, I mean,
00:53:42yeah, I mean, do you ever like
00:53:44I feel like people ask us
00:53:45about to jockeys a lot.
00:53:47Do you feel like you're going faster on him
00:53:49than on other horses?
00:53:50Can you really feel the difference?
00:53:51Well, no, that's that's the thing.
00:53:53Actually, you don't feel you
00:53:54go as fast as you go,
00:53:55because it's like I mean,
00:53:57it's like driving a car
00:53:59when you're driving a good car,
00:54:01you on the freeway,
00:54:0380 miles per hour
00:54:04and feels like you're going slow, right?
00:54:06Well, good horses.
00:54:07It's it's pretty much the same
00:54:10because it's so it's faultless.
00:54:11You know what they're doing.
00:54:13So it's actually the opposite.
00:54:15Yeah, really?
00:54:16OK, yeah, that's that's good to know.
00:54:19And you've written so many good horses,
00:54:20especially of late.
00:54:21And one of them that was of interest
00:54:23to us here in New Jersey is Hot Rod Charlie,
00:54:26because, you know, when he ran in the Haskell
00:54:28and and and ultimately,
00:54:31you know, got taken down.
00:54:32But really, he was the best horse in the race,
00:54:35you know, based on what we've seen.
00:54:37Talk a little bit about that race,
00:54:39Hot Rod Charlie
00:54:40and and also just give our listeners
00:54:43an idea.
00:54:44Do you think having a, you know,
00:54:46a whip in the hand
00:54:47would have made things different
00:54:49for you in that race?
00:54:51Yes, it probably will make a difference now.
00:54:54I mean, you know, when when you go there,
00:54:57you know the rule.
00:54:59And, you know, if if you not agree
00:55:01with the rule, then just don't go there.
00:55:03I went there, you know,
00:55:05and there was no whip.
00:55:07And things happen.
00:55:10I mean, to be honest, yes,
00:55:12it probably would have changed
00:55:13because I would get my stick on the left.
00:55:15But the thing is that, you know,
00:55:17when I went by midnight.
00:55:25My horse kind of kind of stopped
00:55:26a little bit, kind of wait
00:55:28and shift to the to his to his left.
00:55:31So by doing that,
00:55:33obviously clip my hand.
00:55:35If I have my stick,
00:55:36maybe I change it to the left.
00:55:37I give him a tap.
00:55:39He'll he'll just keep his focus.
00:55:40He runs straight and nothing happens.
00:55:42That's when we never going to know
00:55:45happen what happened.
00:55:47Yes, obviously it felt
00:55:49like it was the best horse,
00:55:50but it happened so many times
00:55:52where the best horse didn't win.
00:55:54And that's actually why, you know,
00:55:56races are so interesting, I guess.
00:55:59But yeah, I mean,
00:56:01yeah, it probably would have changed.
00:56:02But, you know, I went there
00:56:04knowing the rule and I had no problem
00:56:06with the rules.
00:56:07So it is what it is.
00:56:09Well, yeah, I mean, actually,
00:56:10I wanted to follow up on that
00:56:11because, you know, some people say
00:56:13that not having the whips
00:56:14can actually make racing more dangerous
00:56:16because you can't control
00:56:17the horses as well.
00:56:18Where do you fall on that?
00:56:20You went on that whip debate.
00:56:21Do you think it does help you avoid
00:56:23spills and avoid horses bearing out?
00:56:25Do you think it's overrated
00:56:26how much the whip matters?
00:56:28No, I think it matters.
00:56:30I think what you can see,
00:56:34I think Mammoth Sport has had
00:56:36a lot of incidents this year.
00:56:38And I'm pretty sure it's part of that.
00:56:42But I think the whip needs to be,
00:56:45we need a whip.
00:56:47We need it for guidance.
00:56:49I mean, it's in every equestrian sport
00:56:54there's a whip.
00:56:55In most of equestrian sport,
00:57:01riders can use their legs.
00:57:03We are riding so short,
00:57:04we have no legs, right?
00:57:06We only have our hand and the whip.
00:57:08That's the hand and the whip.
00:57:11That's the only connection
00:57:12we can make with the horse.
00:57:14And so we need that.
00:57:16No, I think it's been a great thing
00:57:18that there's a limitation
00:57:20as far as how many times
00:57:23you can tap a horse and encourage him.
00:57:28I think that's great.
00:57:29I think there was some regulation
00:57:34that needs to be placed
00:57:36and it was placed.
00:57:37But yeah, no whip,
00:57:39I think it's just too extreme.
00:57:41Yeah, and one of the things
00:57:43that we've also seen
00:57:45over the course of the past couple of years
00:57:48are horses coming over from Europe
00:57:50and doing their best running
00:57:52here in the States.
00:57:53Can you give us an idea
00:57:55of why you think that is?
00:57:58Why so many Euros are coming here,
00:58:00I'm talking about the horses,
00:58:01are coming here
00:58:02and are competing so well
00:58:04here in the States?
00:58:07I don't know, that's a good question.
00:58:09I mean, I think as far as the grass races,
00:58:12Euro are so specialized on that.
00:58:17So it's probably a big help.
00:58:19I mean, as far as medication,
00:58:22there's no more medication anymore.
00:58:25So I don't think that's an edge.
00:58:28I just, that's a question
00:58:30I can't really answer.
00:58:32Yeah, if you knew the answer,
00:58:34then we wouldn't even air it.
00:58:35We would take it for ourselves
00:58:36and buy the horses ourselves.
00:58:39It's a tough question to answer.
00:58:41Yeah, I don't really know.
00:58:43Like I said, the only thing is that,
00:58:45you know, as far as grass,
00:58:47the horses are so specialized for that.
00:58:52So it might help, you know.
00:58:55That's about it
00:58:56because I don't see any difference.
00:58:59Is there a racetrack from Europe
00:59:02or specifically from France
00:59:03that you miss riding at
00:59:05in comparison to here?
00:59:07Well, I really enjoy riding in Longchamp,
00:59:09obviously, it's one of the
00:59:13best racetrack in France,
00:59:15and I like Saint-Cloud as well.
00:59:19Chantilly, I mean, Chantilly,
00:59:21I don't know if you've ever been to Chantilly,
00:59:23it's just a beautiful place.
00:59:25But no, in general,
00:59:28I mean, you know, I'm right,
00:59:30Santa Anita, I mean, it's outstanding.
00:59:32It's just, I don't think you can beat Santa Anita.
00:59:34So I'm pretty grateful
00:59:36that I'm riding in California.
00:59:39Yeah, well, that leads me
00:59:40into my next question
00:59:41because I was gonna make my case
00:59:43for you to come to New York.
00:59:45As a born and bred New Yorker,
00:59:47I think there are very few guys
00:59:49outside of New York
00:59:50who could really hang in that colony,
00:59:52and I think you're one of those guys.
00:59:54You do well when you come to New York.
00:59:55I feel like you've written a lot more
00:59:57for Chad Brown in recent years.
00:59:58So you got those connections coming up.
01:00:01Obviously, things are going great in California,
01:00:03but would you ever consider
01:00:05coming and taking your shot in New York?
01:00:07Well, it's an option that
01:00:11I have in my mind.
01:00:13As of right now,
01:00:14I'm really happy where I am.
01:00:16But yeah, it could be an option.
01:00:19It's something that, you know,
01:00:21you can think about it
01:00:22and maybe make a move, yeah.
01:00:25And just one more question from me.
01:00:27You had the derby win
01:00:29via DQ on Country House.
01:00:31Obviously, that was great
01:00:32and that was exciting,
01:00:33but do you feel like you still need
01:00:36that first-across-the-wire derby win
01:00:38to get that true feeling?
01:00:40Well, I mean, it'll be
01:00:41definitely a different feeling.
01:00:45I mean, regardless of how
01:00:48the derby has been won,
01:00:49I mean, the goal is to win another one.
01:00:54It's just the way it is.
01:00:57I definitely want to win another derby.
01:00:59And yeah, it's one of my goals.
01:01:03For sure.
01:01:04And, you know, we might have you on again
01:01:06and I'll make my case once again
01:01:07to get you over to New York
01:01:09because I'd love to see you.
01:01:10I'd love to see you up in Saratoga.
01:01:12But things are going so well
01:01:13out in California right now.
01:01:14I can't blame you for sticking it out there.
01:01:16So, Flavien, thank you so much for coming on
01:01:18and talking to us.
01:01:18Continued success, my man.
01:01:20Well, thank you very much for having me.
01:01:22And yeah, I'm pretty happy.
01:01:25It was a great talk with you guys.
01:01:27Absolutely.
01:01:28Good to talk to you.
01:01:29Thank you very much.
01:01:30Bye-bye.
01:01:31Be safe.
01:01:32The Green Group Guest of the Week
01:01:33is sponsored by The Green Group,
01:01:34an accounting, tax, consulting,
01:01:35and advisory firm specializing
01:01:37in the thoroughbred industry.
01:01:38As this week's Green Group
01:01:39Guest of the Week,
01:01:40Flavien Pratt will receive a free
01:01:42one-hour tax consultation.
01:01:43Learn more at greenco.com.
01:01:46We'll be right back
01:01:47with this message from The Green Group.
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01:02:43of thoroughbred racing.
01:02:47West Point Thoroughbreds,
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01:02:51Visit westpointtb.com.
01:02:55The TDN Writer's Room
01:02:56is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:02:57Joining a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership
01:02:59convolves you into the world
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01:03:05of trying to do it on your own.
01:03:06Learn more at westpointtb.com.
01:03:09And I feel like there was a West Point horse
01:03:11that made some kind of news
01:03:13over the holiday break.
01:03:15I don't know if we talked about him yet.
01:03:17John, help me out here.
01:03:18Who am I thinking of?
01:03:19Was it that horse that just broke his maiden?
01:03:22For Maiden 10?
01:03:23No.
01:03:24No.
01:03:24No.
01:03:24He must be part-loaned by West Point.
01:03:29I totally forgot about that.
01:03:31Just kidding.
01:03:31I mean, I don't even know where,
01:03:34I don't even know
01:03:35how you could possibly top that
01:03:37as a West Point partner,
01:03:39watching him just roll through the stretch
01:03:41in the Malibu like that.
01:03:42I mean, that's why you get in the business.
01:03:45That's why you get involved in the first place.
01:03:47And he was obviously a $1 million purchase
01:03:49for the Fasig Saratoga sale in 2019.
01:03:52Owned in partnership with Ronas Racing,
01:03:54Sienna Farms, Summerwind Equine,
01:03:55and Woodford Racing.
01:03:56Congratulations to all the partners
01:03:58on what is a phenomenally,
01:04:00phenomenally exciting animal.
01:04:01And we hope to see him a bunch more.
01:04:02And also, not to be outdone,
01:04:04West Point's Obezos,
01:04:05who I liked a little bit
01:04:07on the Kentucky Derby Trail last year.
01:04:08Didn't really pan out as a three-year-old,
01:04:10but he kicked off his four-year-old campaign
01:04:12with a win on Sunday at the fairgrounds.
01:04:13He was fifth in last year's Kentucky Derby.
01:04:15This was his first start since May.
01:04:17So he looks to have an exciting
01:04:18four-year-old campaign ahead of him.
01:04:21Definitely a very nice horse.
01:04:22Kind of that big,
01:04:23has a big late closing kick.
01:04:25So we expect to see him
01:04:26in some two turns grade stakes
01:04:28and probably some grade ones later on this year.
01:04:30So congratulations to the partners on Obezos.
01:04:32And of course,
01:04:33of course,
01:04:34on the monster that is Flightline.
01:04:37We finally had some very,
01:04:40very deserved comeuppance
01:04:42for one of the true villains of the game
01:04:44while we were away.
01:04:45This was Friday, December 17th.
01:04:47Jorge Navarro,
01:04:48the self-proclaimed juice man,
01:04:50got the maximum allowable sentence.
01:04:53In his case,
01:04:53he got sentenced to five years in prison.
01:04:55Probably will do a little bit less than that,
01:04:58maybe three years.
01:04:59But it was very, very satisfying,
01:05:01I think, for everybody in the industry
01:05:03to see him get his.
01:05:04And listen, he's not the only guy
01:05:05that's been doing stuff like this over the years,
01:05:07but I thought he was the most,
01:05:09most flagrant cheater in racing.
01:05:11And just obviously with the juice man Crocs,
01:05:15he was like fully embracing that villainous role.
01:05:19Well, and it ends up,
01:05:20you end up in prison
01:05:21when you're that big of a villain sometimes,
01:05:23and nobody's going to shed a tear for Jorge Navarro.
01:05:26But I want to talk to Bill
01:05:27who was there that day covering the court proceedings.
01:05:31Bill, what were your impressions?
01:05:33A couple of things.
01:05:33First, I need to correct you here, Joe.
01:05:35He's going to serve very close to five years.
01:05:38In federal cases, there's no parole.
01:05:41My understanding is you can get
01:05:42a little bit of time off for good behavior,
01:05:44but this is not going to be
01:05:46your sentence to five years
01:05:47and you're out in six months.
01:05:48He's going to spend a long time in prison,
01:05:51close to five years.
01:05:53I never, I've covered other trials,
01:05:54but I never covered something of this ilk.
01:05:57And it was a real eye opener.
01:05:59And I, you know,
01:06:00I don't have anything to compare it to,
01:06:03but, you know, what happened was an ass whooping.
01:06:07I mean, this, I mean, Mary Kay Vicycle,
01:06:10whatever her name is, the judge,
01:06:11she's a badass.
01:06:13And she, I mean,
01:06:15she lit into him every chance she got.
01:06:18And she, for someone who obviously
01:06:21is not a horse racing person,
01:06:22she really got it.
01:06:23She got the depravity of what he did,
01:06:27the lack of contrition.
01:06:29And most importantly,
01:06:31how awful it is to do this to an animal,
01:06:34to put these kinds of drugs into an animal
01:06:36and probably killed XY Jet
01:06:39along the way because of this.
01:06:41So he just got obliterated in this thing,
01:06:45which was good to see.
01:06:46So, you know,
01:06:47he could have got a couple of breaks here and there.
01:06:49She should have given him,
01:06:50could have given him less time.
01:06:52She gave him the maximum five years.
01:06:54And on top of that,
01:06:55she actually said,
01:06:56I feel terrible.
01:06:57I can't give you more.
01:06:58I mean, I love that,
01:07:00you know, that the law only allowed her
01:07:02to give him five years.
01:07:05They are going to make,
01:07:06say he's got to pay back $25 million
01:07:09to people that he cheated.
01:07:10I don't think he has 25 cents,
01:07:12would be my guess.
01:07:13But nonetheless,
01:07:13whatever money he has,
01:07:15they're going to take it from him.
01:07:16And as we learned before that,
01:07:18they think that when he gets out of jail,
01:07:19he's probably going to be deported to Panama.
01:07:21So, I mean, he hit the cold try there.
01:07:24I mean, jail, take away all your money
01:07:26and we're sending you back to a country
01:07:27you haven't been to in 35 years
01:07:30and apparently don't know anybody.
01:07:31And you know what?
01:07:32It was great to see.
01:07:34And the other thing too,
01:07:36you know, he always, like you said,
01:07:38he embraced this juiceman thing.
01:07:40He was an arrogant SOB.
01:07:42I mean, really, really arrogant,
01:07:45tough guy.
01:07:45And, you know, again,
01:07:47just having those crocs,
01:07:48how ridiculous is that?
01:07:50To see this, again,
01:07:52to see this piece of garbage,
01:07:54get up on and address the court.
01:07:56And, you know, he says the things
01:07:57you got to say.
01:07:58I'm a changed man.
01:07:59I'm so sorry.
01:07:59Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:08:01Bunch of garbage.
01:08:02But he wept like a little baby.
01:08:04I mean, come on, Jorge, you know,
01:08:07like there's so much for the image
01:08:09of Jorge Navarro, the juiceman,
01:08:12the arrogant leading trainer
01:08:13at Monmouth 714 times.
01:08:16You know, he got smacked around
01:08:19really, really good.
01:08:20And on right about February 15th,
01:08:24because they gave him a little extra time
01:08:26to get his affairs in order.
01:08:28He will be heading to a federal
01:08:29penitentiary somewhere.
01:08:30Glad to see it.
01:08:32So, Bill, two questions for you
01:08:34because you were there.
01:08:35One is what were the actual charges
01:08:38that he was convicted on?
01:08:39Because I know the Fed had a bunch
01:08:41of different charges that they were
01:08:43they kind of threw onto the wall.
01:08:45Well, he did.
01:08:46I mean, he did cut somewhat of a deal.
01:08:49He was charged with this thing
01:08:51that we've learned all along.
01:08:52So you got to remember,
01:08:53there's no law against
01:08:55drugging a racehorse
01:08:56to try to win a race.
01:08:57There's nowhere.
01:08:57You're not going to find that
01:08:58in any statutes anywhere.
01:08:59So they get him as misbranding
01:09:01and drug adulteration.
01:09:03And he got convicted on one count of that.
01:09:06They did.
01:09:07They did originally charge him
01:09:09with two counts.
01:09:09They brought it down to one.
01:09:11And the maximum sentence
01:09:12for that is five years.
01:09:14Now, other people,
01:09:15only a handful of people
01:09:16have been sentenced so far.
01:09:17But other guys have gotten
01:09:18like 18 months.
01:09:20Some of these drug suppliers
01:09:21and whatnot.
01:09:22So, you know,
01:09:23so that to the judge,
01:09:25that shows her feeling that,
01:09:28you know, of all the bad guys,
01:09:29this was the worst of the worst.
01:09:31I'll give someone else 18 months.
01:09:33He's getting five years.
01:09:34And I wish I could have given him 10.
01:09:36And my other question is,
01:09:38has a judge been assigned
01:09:39to the Jason service case?
01:09:42It's the same judge,
01:09:43this Mary Kay.
01:09:44That's actually encouraging.
01:09:47Yeah.
01:09:47Well, yeah, absolutely.
01:09:48I mean, she was, like I said,
01:09:50I mean, boy, I mean,
01:09:52she didn't she did not let up
01:09:54on him one second.
01:09:56And, you know, so, yeah,
01:09:58she the and that's
01:09:59the other thing, too.
01:09:59You know, I'm sure Jason service
01:10:01and his lawyers were
01:10:02watching this carefully
01:10:03and they couldn't have been happy
01:10:04by what they saw.
01:10:05You know, this is the other
01:10:07of the daily of the one
01:10:08and one of the Jews chronicles.
01:10:11You know, they got number one.
01:10:12Now one is coming up, Jason service.
01:10:15And they're dealing with a system
01:10:16that went as went as hard
01:10:20on Jorge Navarro as was possible.
01:10:24And I think it's like I'm not sure
01:10:27without without USADA
01:10:29coming aboard, I'm not sure
01:10:30how many more guys
01:10:32we're going to get to point
01:10:33and laugh at.
01:10:33And that's a really unfortunate thing,
01:10:35because there's so many people
01:10:37who are just so deserving
01:10:38of this kind of come up
01:10:39into the business.
01:10:40Navarro was the biggest one,
01:10:42the biggest, most flagrant
01:10:43asshole of them all
01:10:44that we're just all so happy
01:10:46to see put under the jail
01:10:47and get deported and all that.
01:10:49There's so many other arrogant people
01:10:51walking around this business
01:10:52and just, you know, with this,
01:10:53I can't be touched attitude.
01:10:55And it's unfortunate.
01:10:57I don't know how many more
01:10:58of those those pounds of flesh
01:11:00we're going to get.
01:11:00But yeah, this was super satisfying.
01:11:03And it was just one of those things
01:11:04where, you know, you don't feel
01:11:05like you get justice a lot,
01:11:07not just in this business,
01:11:08but in life in general.
01:11:09And this was one time
01:11:11where justice was served.
01:11:11And I think Bill's point is correct
01:11:13that the judge did a good job
01:11:15kind of, you know,
01:11:16very, very correctly assessing
01:11:19how evil and how cartoonishly
01:11:21villainous Horry Navarro
01:11:23was in his business
01:11:24and the kind of damage he did,
01:11:25especially to horses like XYJ.
01:11:27So in the words of Andy Cohen,
01:11:30sayonara, sucker.
01:11:33See you never.
01:11:34The TDN Writers Room
01:11:35is brought to you by the KTOB,
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01:12:00of a GoFundMe page.
01:12:01We put this on the screen last show
01:12:03that's raised over $500,000
01:12:05for people affected
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01:12:08in Western Kentucky.
01:12:09315 industry members
01:12:11donated to the cause.
01:12:12And the funds went
01:12:13for both immediate response
01:12:14and long-term recovery.
01:12:16The first of TD's,
01:12:17TD Thornton's Derby Top 12
01:12:19was released this week
01:12:20and 11 of the 12 horses mentioned
01:12:21are Kentucky breds,
01:12:22which speaks to the quality,
01:12:24obviously top level competitiveness
01:12:26of Kentucky breds.
01:12:2717 of the 20 Kentucky Derby entrants
01:12:29last year were Kentucky breds
01:12:30and all 14 runners
01:12:32in the 2021 Kentucky Oaks
01:12:33were bred in Kentucky.
01:12:35Also, the Kentucky bred of the week
01:12:37is New Grange,
01:12:38who won Saturday's
01:12:39great three sham steaks.
01:12:40Son of Violence was bred in Kentucky
01:12:42by Jack Mandato
01:12:43and Black Rock Thoroughbreds
01:12:44is undefeated in his first two starts.
01:12:46And also in 2021,
01:12:4972% of steaks races
01:12:51in America were won
01:12:52by Kentucky breds.
01:12:53So obviously still
01:12:54dominating the industry.
01:12:57With some of the fullest fields
01:12:59in the country
01:13:00and quality racing year round,
01:13:03there's never been a better time
01:13:04to reap the rewards of breeding
01:13:06and racing in Kentucky.
01:13:09Purse money in Kentucky
01:13:10is at an all-time high.
01:13:12As his average purse per race
01:13:14outpacing California,
01:13:15Florida and New York.
01:13:18Kentucky breds.
01:13:19Breed them.
01:13:20Raise them.
01:13:22Race them.
01:13:23We all win.
01:13:42So
01:14:12so
01:14:27the TDN Writers Room
01:14:28is brought to you
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01:14:29Thoroughbred Association,
01:14:30where it's hosting
01:14:31their 2022
01:14:32online stallion season auction
01:14:34now through January 10th.
01:14:36The auction features
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01:14:46Coat of Honor and more.
01:14:48A $1,000 incentive
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01:14:58with the Minnesota Racing
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01:15:01You can check it out
01:15:02at www.thoroughlybred.com.
01:15:06So kind of dovetailing
01:15:08with the last
01:15:09segment we're talking
01:15:10about Jorge Navarro,
01:15:11one of the things about Navarro
01:15:13that we've talked about
01:15:13on the show
01:15:14and the other people
01:15:15have spoken about
01:15:15is the kind of the lack
01:15:17of punishment for owners
01:15:18that employed Jorge Navarro.
01:15:20Basically, I think,
01:15:22I can't prove this,
01:15:23but I think knowingly
01:15:24used his services
01:15:25knowing what he was doing,
01:15:27the edge he was taking.
01:15:29And we talked about
01:15:30that intercepted phone call
01:15:33where someone was talking
01:15:35to Navarro about
01:15:36juicing the horse
01:15:37as much as possible
01:15:38and how,
01:15:39why can't we find those people
01:15:40and get them out of the game?
01:15:41They clearly are
01:15:42doing the wrong things.
01:15:43But in that vein,
01:15:45Jeff Gural,
01:15:45who is somebody
01:15:46that Bill has covered,
01:15:47who's, he works for the,
01:15:49in New Jersey,
01:15:50he controls the Meadowlands,
01:15:52a couple other harness tracks.
01:15:54He banned eight owners
01:15:56who had horses with Rene Allard.
01:15:59I don't know if I'm saying that right.
01:16:01Who had horses with him.
01:16:03He banned them from his tracks.
01:16:05They sued to get that overturn
01:16:07and a federal judge
01:16:08dismissed their lawsuit.
01:16:11I think it was a week or two ago.
01:16:12Now he dismissed it without prejudice,
01:16:14which means that they can file the chart.
01:16:15They can file a case again
01:16:17to try to get it overturned.
01:16:18But for now,
01:16:19the ban stands in place
01:16:21from Jeff Gural.
01:16:22I think he's one of those guys
01:16:24who's like very reform-minded
01:16:25and it's,
01:16:26you kind of need a cop on the beat
01:16:27like him in America.
01:16:29We got a couple of guys
01:16:29who I think are trying
01:16:30to do the right thing,
01:16:31but he's kind of the big cheese right now.
01:16:33But Bill knows more about this than I do.
01:16:35So what was your reaction to that?
01:16:37Yeah, I mean,
01:16:37there's no one else
01:16:38in any kind of horse racing,
01:16:40be it standard or thoroughbred
01:16:41like Jeff Gural.
01:16:42The lengths that he's gone
01:16:43to police his own sport.
01:16:45And, you know,
01:16:46he doesn't take any crap.
01:16:47If he thinks that
01:16:49you've done something wrong,
01:16:50if you're cheating,
01:16:50he'll just throw you out.
01:16:51And, you know,
01:16:52every time he does this,
01:16:53someone sues him.
01:16:54So here's the background.
01:16:55Rene Allard was one of the people
01:16:56involved in the service Navarro thing.
01:16:59You know, terrible allegations about him.
01:17:01There was, it wasn't him talking,
01:17:03but two other people
01:17:05were talking about Allard
01:17:07on the intercepted,
01:17:09the wiretaps from the government.
01:17:10And they were joking about
01:17:12the Allard killing fields
01:17:13because he had killed
01:17:14so many horses with drugs.
01:17:16So I don't know what on earth
01:17:18the Justice Department was thinking
01:17:19and why they did this,
01:17:20but they allowed him to keep training.
01:17:24If he was doing what is like
01:17:25for thoroughbreds breaking babies,
01:17:28training center down in Florida,
01:17:29getting horses ready for the,
01:17:31their starts,
01:17:33maybe, you know,
01:17:33lay up horses, et cetera.
01:17:34None of these horses
01:17:35were going to race anywhere.
01:17:37But he was, he was allowed to do this.
01:17:39And Goral, rightly so,
01:17:41was appalled by this.
01:17:42And he went in,
01:17:44found out which owners
01:17:46were giving Allard horses to train
01:17:49at this training center in Florida,
01:17:50said, how could anybody possibly
01:17:52have anything to do with this
01:17:54or sign off on this guy
01:17:56having anything to do with horses?
01:17:57And he just said the heck with it.
01:17:59And he banned these owners,
01:18:01eight of them.
01:18:02So they can't race there.
01:18:03Their horses can't race there.
01:18:04They're not allowed in the premises.
01:18:06And they sued and he won.
01:18:08Now, the moral of the story,
01:18:10the thing is, you know,
01:18:12I think one of the great frustrations
01:18:13about everything we've been talking
01:18:14about over these last two years,
01:18:16Joe, as you mentioned,
01:18:17that, you know,
01:18:17the owners are complicit.
01:18:18We know that.
01:18:19I mean, probably,
01:18:20I would say, you know,
01:18:21nine out of 10,
01:18:22if maybe not 10 out of 10,
01:18:23knew exactly what was going on
01:18:24with the feral service, et cetera.
01:18:26And, you know, so they,
01:18:28but they have not been penalized
01:18:29in any way, shape or form.
01:18:30They've gotten away scot-free.
01:18:32Everybody thinks the owner
01:18:33should be made to pay.
01:18:35I don't know what the perfect way
01:18:36to do that is,
01:18:37but Jeff Corral and Harness Racing
01:18:39found a way you associate
01:18:41with a guy like this,
01:18:43like Rene Allard.
01:18:45You can't race in my track.
01:18:46Get lost.
01:18:46End of story.
01:18:47See ya.
01:18:48And I think if anything,
01:18:49like if you want to,
01:18:51if you want to do
01:18:51like a drug dealing analogy,
01:18:54the owners in a lot of ways
01:18:55are like the kingpins
01:18:56because they're funding
01:18:58all of the stuff,
01:18:59all of the shady stuff
01:19:00below them that goes on.
01:19:02Like there's no,
01:19:03you can't have juicing trainers
01:19:05without owners that are,
01:19:06that are complicit
01:19:07and that are enabling them.
01:19:08So I think if anything,
01:19:09they, they should be
01:19:11even more responsible
01:19:12than the trainers themselves,
01:19:13or at least equally as responsible
01:19:15because they are an equal cog
01:19:17in that disgusting system.
01:19:19And, and it's good to see
01:19:20Jeff Corral doing something about it.
01:19:22And, you know,
01:19:22we need more people in racing
01:19:24who are just,
01:19:24who are willing to step up.
01:19:26And I think a lot of people in racing,
01:19:27unfortunately,
01:19:28a lot of people have friendships
01:19:30and relationships
01:19:31with a lot of these owners
01:19:32that are, that are doing
01:19:33the wrong things.
01:19:34And a lot of, you know,
01:19:35horseman's boards
01:19:35and racing commissions,
01:19:37they know these guys and girls
01:19:38and they don't want to,
01:19:40they don't want to punish them
01:19:41or sanction them
01:19:42because they, they fill stalls
01:19:43or they're, they're close
01:19:44with each other.
01:19:45But John, you've,
01:19:46you've probably seen that
01:19:47from the inside.
01:19:48I wonder what your thoughts are
01:19:49on that, on that,
01:19:50that relationship
01:19:51between the owners
01:19:52and the trainers
01:19:52and then the owners
01:19:53and the people who are tasked
01:19:55with regulating the sport.
01:19:56Well, there's no question
01:19:58that the owners are,
01:19:59you know, part of the process.
01:20:02And, you know,
01:20:03everyone wants to win.
01:20:04Everyone is in this industry
01:20:06because they want to win
01:20:07and they want to win.
01:20:08And whether it's to
01:20:09satisfy your ego
01:20:10or your business acumen
01:20:12or just your investment,
01:20:14you want your horse to finish first
01:20:15and you want 60% of the purse.
01:20:16I mean, that's just the way
01:20:17you want to do it.
01:20:18Now, very different organizations
01:20:21and stables do it
01:20:22very different ways.
01:20:23Some breed and,
01:20:24and are in the process
01:20:26all the way through
01:20:27until their horses
01:20:28are done racing.
01:20:30Others are claiming
01:20:31others are buying horses
01:20:33at the public auction.
01:20:34But at the end of the day,
01:20:35everybody wants to win.
01:20:37And it comes down to,
01:20:38you know,
01:20:38are you going to do
01:20:39the right thing
01:20:40and do the right thing
01:20:42for yourself
01:20:43and for the horse
01:20:45and for the industry?
01:20:46Or are you going to give in to,
01:20:48you know, to taking an edge
01:20:50and, you know,
01:20:51and doing things
01:20:52that aren't within the rules?
01:20:54And guys, we've talked about this
01:20:55at Nauseam as far as,
01:20:57you know, if you look at
01:20:59the trainers
01:21:01who have been convicted now
01:21:02for cheating
01:21:03and also who you have
01:21:05a good sneaky suspicion
01:21:06that their trainers are cheating
01:21:07and you look at
01:21:08who the owner roster is,
01:21:09you're going to see
01:21:10a lot of repeat names.
01:21:11You're going to see
01:21:12a lot of repeat names,
01:21:12a lot of repeat customers.
01:21:14And it's not just by quinking.
01:21:15It's not just because,
01:21:16you know, a guy stumbles
01:21:17upon a good trainer
01:21:18and then that trainer gets,
01:21:20you know, gets dazed
01:21:21or gets implemented
01:21:23in, you know,
01:21:25in some kind of an issue
01:21:27and no longer is training.
01:21:29And then they shift
01:21:29their horses to another trainer
01:21:31who, oh, by the way,
01:21:32also has like a 28% win percentage
01:21:34and the horses catch a second gear
01:21:36midway down the racetrack.
01:21:38So it's not a matter of,
01:21:41you know, putting their head
01:21:42in the sand and not knowing.
01:21:44They freaking know.
01:21:45They know.
01:21:46They know what's going on
01:21:47and they are advocating it.
01:21:49They are actually feeding
01:21:51that cheating mentality
01:21:53into the industry
01:21:54because they continue to win.
01:21:56And when they continue to win,
01:21:57their horses get better.
01:21:58And when the horses get better,
01:21:59they get worth more.
01:22:00And then they have more money
01:22:01and more ammunition
01:22:02to repeat the process.
01:22:03It's, you know, it's rinse and repeat
01:22:05all over and over again.
01:22:07And if there's no,
01:22:09you know, consequences
01:22:12for these owners to,
01:22:14you know, go with a non-cheating trainer
01:22:16other than the fact that,
01:22:18you know, that the trainer himself
01:22:19is going to get indicted for an issue,
01:22:21then why would you do it
01:22:23other than the fact that,
01:22:24you know, for us,
01:22:25it's a matter of I want to be able
01:22:26to look myself in the mirror
01:22:28and go to sleep at night,
01:22:29you know, without worrying about
01:22:30are my horses getting doped
01:22:32and that's why they're winning or not.
01:22:34So it's becoming very, very difficult.
01:22:37Very difficult to be
01:22:39one of the few Boy Scouts
01:22:40in this industry.
01:22:41And I got to tell you guys
01:22:43that this isn't a news break
01:22:45or anything like that,
01:22:45but there are a lot of owners
01:22:47that feel the way I do,
01:22:48which is why am I continuing
01:22:49to beat my head against the wall
01:22:51when the only way these guys
01:22:52are going to get caught
01:22:53is if there's a federal indictment
01:22:55for money laundering,
01:22:57not even for, you know,
01:22:58looking at our own industry.
01:23:00And that's the way they're going to get.
01:23:01That's the way they're going to get caught.
01:23:02I mean, it's silly that
01:23:04I think when California came out
01:23:06and said like 99% of their tests,
01:23:09you know, were, you know,
01:23:11showed that there was no
01:23:13illegal substances being used.
01:23:15Well, yeah, because they're not
01:23:16testing for the right things.
01:23:17And nobody knows how to test for those yet.
01:23:19So it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
01:23:22They say we're a clean,
01:23:23you know, we're a clean race.
01:23:24I'm not picking on California,
01:23:25but they're the ones
01:23:25that came out with the number,
01:23:26you know, that were obviously clean
01:23:27because 99% of our tests come back clean.
01:23:30And that's not true.
01:23:30You're just not testing for the right things
01:23:32because obviously there are,
01:23:34you know, there are certainly
01:23:35allegations and reasoning to think
01:23:37that there's cheating going on.
01:23:38So I know I'm going off on a tangent,
01:23:40but at the end of the day,
01:23:41yeah, you got to have the owners
01:23:43have their feet to the fire also,
01:23:44because otherwise they just go
01:23:46to the next strainer
01:23:47that has a high percentage
01:23:48that may or may not be cheating as well.
01:23:50And that's kind of what was unsaid
01:23:52in what Jorge Navarro said.
01:23:53He was in his defense of himself.
01:23:56He said it was basically like
01:23:57I caved to the pressure to win.
01:24:00Like I had the results.
01:24:01I had all this pressure
01:24:02that I did the wrong things
01:24:03and I became like a bad person
01:24:05because I put so much pressure
01:24:07on myself to win.
01:24:08The pressure on that
01:24:08is also coming from the owners.
01:24:10The owners also put the pressure
01:24:12on the trainers.
01:24:13What are you doing
01:24:13to increase my win percentage?
01:24:14And I get that everybody wants to win,
01:24:17but there should be
01:24:18a very binary thing.
01:24:19Does your trainers win percentage
01:24:22and results past the smell test
01:24:24or does it not?
01:24:25And you should be able to answer
01:24:26that very easily if you're an owner.
01:24:28And a lot of guys just, I think,
01:24:30either don't even want to think about it
01:24:32or know it and don't care
01:24:33that they're employing people
01:24:35that are taking an edge.
01:24:35And there's definitely a lot more
01:24:38lot more dominoes to fall
01:24:39on that in that regard.
01:24:40I hope, you know,
01:24:41with more reform coming,
01:24:42but not as many, not nearly as many
01:24:44as we would have had
01:24:45with that with you side in charge.
01:24:47And that's that's a shame.
01:24:49But I just have one more thing
01:24:50to say about the harness stuff.
01:24:52And it's you go, girl.
01:24:58John, that was perfect for you.
01:25:03That was bad.
01:25:04That wasn't even a good pun.
01:25:05All right, come on.
01:25:07No, but seriously,
01:25:08but we need it.
01:25:09We need a Jeff Corral
01:25:10in thoroughbred racing.
01:25:12You go, girl.
01:25:13I liked it.
01:25:19We even got a cringe out of Bill.
01:25:22Don't give me a pity laugh.
01:25:23Bill gave me a stone face.
01:25:26Bill, do you know that Foner Park
01:25:27opened up for training?
01:25:29I saw that, yes.
01:25:30You sent a string this year, right?
01:25:33Yeah, they'll be there soon.
01:25:34They're going Pony Express.
01:25:35Yeah, and I know
01:25:37this is a little unusual.
01:25:38We don't usually do this, you know,
01:25:40but 2022 is going to be a new year.
01:25:42I just wanted to wish my compatriot
01:25:45and friend Bill Finley a happy birthday.
01:25:49Yes, happy birthday, buddy.
01:25:50It was yesterday, but thank you.
01:25:53We weren't taping yesterday,
01:25:55but I wanted to wish you a happy birthday.
01:25:56Can you tell the audience how old you are?
01:25:5938.
01:26:0038, very nice.
01:26:02I think you have socks that are 38 years old.
01:26:06Well, Bill, you don't look a day over 60.
01:26:08I'm very happy to wish you a happy birthday.
01:26:11Joe and I both consider you, you know, a friend
01:26:14and we're very pleased
01:26:16that you made it another year, buddy.
01:26:17Thank you guys.
01:26:18Happy birthday, Bill.
01:26:20The TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
01:26:23If you think that 50 years combined experience
01:26:25in the horse business could benefit your program,
01:26:27give Tommy or Wendy a call.
01:26:29They personally advise on each horse
01:26:31as if they were their own.
01:26:32Legacy Bloodstock had a fantastic 2021
01:26:34with their sales grads with 161 winners of 241 races.
01:26:39They have 29 horses entered
01:26:41for the upcoming Keeneland January sale,
01:26:43including short yawings by First Crop Sires
01:26:45Mattoli, Catholic Boy, Yoshida, Preservationist, and more.
01:26:49We'll definitely go visit Tommy and Wendy
01:26:51in the barn area at Keeneland January.
01:26:53We'll be right back after this message
01:26:54from Legacy Bloodstock.
01:26:56Being a small family business,
01:26:57I guess we're part of a dying breed.
01:26:59We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
01:27:02We know it's a huge responsibility.
01:27:04We're always with your horse every step of the way.
01:27:08When it comes to being at the sales ground,
01:27:09showing your horses, we are with your horse.
01:27:12Just driving up and down the road every day.
01:27:14There's not a time that I don't look out
01:27:15and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal,
01:27:18the people that come to invest in the game.
01:27:20I wanna see as many people enjoy this sport
01:27:22as they possibly can,
01:27:23because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
01:27:28All right, so that's gonna do it
01:27:29for the first TDN Writer's Room of 2022,
01:27:31brought to you as always by Keeneland.
01:27:33Keeneland January sale starts next week,
01:27:35January 10th through the 13th.
01:27:36You can learn more and see the catalog
01:27:38at January.keeneland.com.
01:27:40I wanna thank Bill Finley, John Green,
01:27:43our Green Group Guest of the Week, Flavian Pratt,
01:27:45our producer, Patty Wolf,
01:27:46our associate producer, Katie Petruniak,
01:27:48and our editors, Anthony LaRocca,
01:27:49Aaliyah LaRocca, and Nathan Wilkinson.
01:27:51Thank you all so much for watching.
01:27:53Hope you had a great new year.