War Thunder Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Tank Destroyers & Assault Guns! - video Dailymotion

Toreno

In this episode of the proposed future Japanese tank tech tree series I take a look at some of the potential Japanese assault guns and tank destroyers.  Japanese tank destroyers in this episode: MI+MII (Type 60 prototypes?) Type 1 Ho-Ni (75mm) (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 1 Ho-Ni II (105mm) Type 3 Ho-Ni III (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 4 Ho-To Type 5 Ho-Ru (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 5 Na-To (Added in  Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 56 SPG Type 60 (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 97 (120mm short gun) (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai")  Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree Japanese Light Tanks: https://youtu.be/a4La6cIj3U8 Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 1): https://youtu.be/6ZT_JiN0lFY Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 2): https://youtu.be/EQn_A3aWh8I Japanese Heavy Tanks: https://youtu.be/QhMx05tIZC4 Japanese Amphibious Tanks: https://youtu.be/4_paUh-5U30 Japanese Tank Destroyers & Assault Guns: https://youtu.be/w0Xxw9F-xyk Japanese SPAA: https://youtu.be/Oo0tpdRt9_k Japanese Premium Tanks: https://youtu.be/OxPzgNZo1wI  Link to Type 5 Ho-Ru picture http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/ho-ru.html  Link to Type 56 picture: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/51183-japanese-tank-tree-guns-discussion/page__st__3960  Information/picture citations: New Vangard. Japanese tanks: 1939-45  http://www.weaponsofwwii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3130&sid=55f981c6b914815120df08efa8e606be&start=15  WWII: The Directory of Weapons  http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/  Social Media ⬇️ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/toreno.bsky.social Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/Toreno4 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/toreno170 Mastodon: Toreno17@mastodon.social Threads: https://www.threads.net/@toreno170 Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Toreno17 Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/toreno5/videos   Game: War Thunder  ⬅️  #warthunder #japan #japanese #tankdestroyer #toreno

Transcript

00:00Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of my proposed future Japanese tank tech tree series.

00:05Now today we're looking at the tank destroyers slash assault guns that the Japanese used during WW2 or developed during WW2.

00:12As you can see there's quite a few of them and I think Japan will do very well on this front of the tank tech tree.

00:18So without any further ado let's get straight into the episode.

00:22Now first of all this is not a type 5 Horu, I just wanted to get that out of the way before anyone accuses me of misleading.

00:28This is actually a Hetzer, a German Hetzer to be precise.

00:33But the type 5 Horu from what I understand looked extremely similar to this.

00:37It had the same sort of mission, same sort of design, you know low profile tank destroyer.

00:44But it had a few massive differences.

00:48First of all it only had a 47mm gun.

00:51Now we've looked at that before and all sorts of conflicting records on what the penetration is.

00:56But 55-60 at 100m, 40-65mm penetration at 500m or 30-50mm at 1000m.

01:04So that's why I've put it at tier 1.

01:07Armour, I don't actually know what the armour is.

01:10But I assume because this is based on the type 95 chassis that only had a maximum armour of about 12mm.

01:17So I'm going to assume it's not going to be too heavily armoured.

01:21Speed, the type 95 again which it's based on was about 18mph off-road and 28mph on-road.

01:28So probably similar speeds.

01:30Now only one of these was actually built in, if I can find it, June 1945 according to my book by Zaloga.

01:38Now there's no actual photographs of it and I don't know what the documentation of it is like.

01:43So that's why I've put it underlined and bolded in the tech tree.

01:48Now you may also want to point out that it's a 1945 tank.

01:51It can't go in tier 1, that wouldn't make any sense.

01:54But if we go into the War Thunder game itself.

01:57So we're on War Thunder itself, we're on the German tech tree.

02:00If we go to the SDK FZ 140-1, we go to tank information.

02:06We can see that this was accepted into the Wehrmacht in 1944.

02:11This is a tier 1 tank at a battle rating of 1.3.

02:15So we can see there's already a precedent for late war tanks being in the early tiers.

02:22So now that we've seen it can go on the tech tree at tier 1.

02:26What battle rating should it get?

02:27I believe it should get a battle rating of about 2 or 1.7.

02:31For the simple reason that its competitors, the StuG A and the CIS 30,

02:36both have extremely superior penetration characteristics.

02:41You know, I don't want the Type 5 Horu to be too low in battle rating.

02:48But I think 1.72 is probably where it could go.

02:52I think that's the best place for it.

02:54Not too overpowered and it's not in a position where it's going to just get,

02:57you know, slaughtered by enemy tanks.

03:00Now the next tank destroyer we're looking at is the Type 1 Honi-1.

03:04Now this was armed with a 75mm Type 90 gun.

03:08Now the penetration of this is apparently,

03:11or from what I can understand, very similar to the Type 3,

03:13which was actually based on the Type 90.

03:16So again between 80 to 90 at 100 metres penetration,

03:2074 to 80 at 500 and probably about 67 at 1000.

03:26With special ammunition it should be able to do 100mm at 500.

03:30So quite a powerful tank.

03:32Armour-wise it's 25 to 51,

03:35although I think the 51 was only around the gun shield.

03:41The rest of it was mainly 25mm from what I understand.

03:45Unless I'm mistaken, speed would have been about 24 miles an hour

03:48and the Honi-1 would have carried five crew members.

03:51Now one thing to remember is this is not a fully enclosed turret on the tank.

03:55It's got limited traverse, it's not actually a turret.

03:57But I believe the rear and top are, or at least the rear, are exposed.

04:02Which, you know, would be a bit of a problem for the crew members.

04:05Now where would I put this battle rating-wise?

04:08I've put it Tier 2, but it's because that's, you know,

04:12it's better than Tier 1 but I think it'd be outclassed at Tier 3.

04:16It'd have to be lower battle rating than the Stug 3F

04:18because that seems to outclass it in penetration,

04:20characteristics, armour, all that sort of stuff.

04:24Probably about the same place as the SU-76, which is 2.7.

04:28So about 3, 2.7, somewhere there.

04:32You know, it won't be too over-tiered or under-tiered at that point.

04:34And I think it would do very well there.

04:36Now after the Type 1 HONI-1, the Japanese created the Type 1 HONI-2,

04:42which is basically the same tank but with a 105mm howitzer on it

04:46instead of the 75mm field gun.

04:49Now I think it has pretty much the same stats as the Type 1 HONI-1.

04:52I think the gun shield might be slightly thinner.

04:54I think it's something like 40mm rather than 50.

04:58The gun, I couldn't actually find much penetration characteristics for it.

05:01The best I could find was 83mm at 100 metres

05:05or 70 at 1000 or 120mm with high explosive anti-tank.

05:11Now this is only ever so slightly better than the HONI-1.

05:14I think 3mm is better at 100 metres and 1000 metres.

05:18The high explosive anti-tank is very good.

05:21You know, I think it's better than the Stug 3F's high explosive anti-tank.

05:26On account of the high explosive anti-tank,

05:29I've put the Type 1 HONI-2 at very low,

05:32or high tier 2, sorry, or very low tier 3, it could go as well.

05:37It should be able to deal with pretty much most American tanks at that tier.

05:42Battle rating wise, I'd put it about 3.7 with the Stug 3F,

05:47the Stug 3Gs at 4.7 or about 3.7 to 4.3, somewhere around there,

05:53because it should be able to deal with pretty much every American tank

05:55around that battle rating with the high explosive anti-tank round.

06:00You know, it should be able to deal with any Shermans it comes across.

06:03I think this would be a very good capable tank destroyer.

06:06Now after the Type 1 HONI-2, we come to the Type 3 HONI-3.

06:10The tank between the Type 2 HOI was a fire support tank,

06:14which we've already looked at in the BDM tank episode of the Tech Tree series.

06:19Now there are quite a few differences with the Type 3 HONI compared to the previous models.

06:25One, it has a fully enclosed superstructure,

06:27so the crew is completely protected from shrapnel, enemy bullets, that sort of thing.

06:33The gun.

06:34Some sources say it's a 75mm Type 3 gun.

06:37Some are saying it's a Type 90.

06:40I would have thought it would be a Type 3 gun,

06:41because apparently this was built with more of a tank destroyer role in mind.

06:46So I'm assuming it's going to be a Type 3 75mm gun.

06:50Armor.

06:51This is actually worse.

06:5212 to 25mm.

06:54They've got a fully enclosed superstructure,

06:56but they got rid of that gun shield, which had something like 50 to 40mm of protection.

07:01Speed was about the same as the Type 1 HONI,

07:03so about 24mph, and again there were 5 crew.

07:07Now I have put this at tier 3,

07:09but it's not that much of an improvement over the previous models.

07:13I believe it should only be about 0.3 or 0.6 higher than the Type 1 HONI-2,

07:18so if that gets put at 3.7 it should be 4.

07:22If the Type 1 HONI-2 gets put at 4.3 it should be 4.6 to 5, or 4.9, something like that.

07:28I think it would be a very good tank destroyer,

07:30but it's not a massive improvement over the previous models if I'm honest.

07:34Now the next few tanks I'm not entirely sure what order to put in,

07:38because I haven't been able to find many penetration characteristics for them.

07:42So these are in the order I think they should be,

07:44but you know, some of you may disagree.

07:47Gaijin would probably put them in a different order possibly.

07:50But anyway, the next tank destroyer assault gun is the Type 4 HORO.

07:56Now this has a 150mm howitzer on it,

07:59and armour isn't particularly good.

08:0225mm on the gun shield, and it's all riveted, which is not good at all.

08:08The top speed was about 24mph.

08:11Now I'm not sure of the penetration characteristics for the gun used on the Type 4,

08:16but it's a big gun, 150mm.

08:19The ISU-152 in game, a similar calibre,

08:23does something like 75mm damage just with the high explosive.

08:27I don't know if this gets high explosive anti-tank.

08:30In the Philippines, I think there was only two sent to the Philippines,

08:33but I think they destroyed something like seven there,

08:35and damaged quite a few others.

08:37So they must be fairly good tanks, or tank destroyers, assault guns,

08:42you know, penetration wise.

08:44Where would it go battle rating wise?

08:46Um, it's going to be quite tricky actually.

08:50I've put it at tier 3.

08:51Um, I think it could probably go about the same as the ISU-152,

08:55so about a rating of 5.

08:57I don't think that'd be too, um, over-tiered or under-tiered.

09:00I think, you know, that's pretty much the only place I can think of it to go,

09:03but it should be a nice little, um, assault gun slash tank destroyer,

09:07if added into the game.

09:09Now the next, um, tank destroyer slash assault gun,

09:11I don't actually know the name of.

09:13It's a Type 97 Chihar, but it seems to have a,

09:17um, from what I understand, a 120mm gun in it.

09:20Um, some sort of naval gun from what I understand.

09:23Um, I have no idea what the penetration characteristics would be on this thing,

09:26but it must be bloody big, um, if it was meant to be a naval gun.

09:30Now presumably this has similar armour to the regular Type 97 Chihar,

09:35so something like 8-28mm.

09:37Um, speed I assume is going to be roughly the same at 24 miles an hour,

09:41probably for crew again.

09:43Now I don't know where to put this battle rating-wise.

09:45I've put it Tier 3, um, like with the Type 4 Ho-Ro,

09:50but I, I don't know if this is better than the Ho-Ro or worse.

09:53Um, if it was a naval gun I would have thought it'd be better,

09:56but, you know, I'm not really sure.

09:58So, probably 5-something, but, you know, between 5 and 6 battle rating-wise.

10:04Um, something like that.

10:05I'm not really sure where to put it,

10:07but I think it would be a nice unique tank destroyer slash assault gun to have in the game.

10:11From what I understand there was also a version with a long 120mm gun,

10:16but I couldn't find any information on that,

10:18so I haven't included it in the tech tree.

10:20Now there wasn't too much information on this next, um, tank destroyer slash assault gun,

10:24but, um, there is a photograph of it,

10:27so I've decided to include it just in case.

10:29Um, it's the Type 4 Hoto.

10:31Now this was based on the Type 95 Hargo,

10:35um, so probably about the same armour,

10:36which I think was something like 12mm,

10:38and it was armed with a 120mm howitzer.

10:42Uh, top speed would probably have been quite similar,

10:45so, if I can find it, probably about 18 miles off-road, 28 on-road.

10:50Crew, I'm guessing, would have been about 4-5.

10:53Um, now I don't know the penetration characteristics of the gun,

10:56so I don't know if this should go before the ho-ro or after it.

10:59It was developed about the same time,

11:01but, um, again a battle rating of between 5 and 6 possibly,

11:05maybe a little bit lower.

11:07I mean, like I said, I wasn't sure which order to put these few tanks in,

11:10but I think it would be another good addition for the Japanese tank tech tree.

11:15Now the last tank on the list is the Type 5 Nato,

11:18which is, I think, the last Japanese tank destroyer to be put into production,

11:21or developed, um, and it looks a bit like a truck at the front.

11:25I'm not sure why, um, maybe they based it,

11:28I think they based it on something else, I assume.

11:31But it was armed with a Type 5 75mm gun,

11:35and like the Type 3 and, uh, other guns,

11:38this has contradictory penetration stats,

11:40uh, 90 to 115 at 100 metres,

11:4384 to 115 at 500,

11:46or 75 to 77 at 1000,

11:49so it should do quite well,

11:52but it depends which, um, stats we believe.

11:54Um, armour was very thin, only something like 12mm,

11:59and it was reasonably fast, about 25 miles an hour.

12:03But interestingly, it's, um, it's, um, recorded as having seven crew.

12:08Um, I've heard something about four loaders being on this thing,

12:11which seems a bit overkill.

12:12Um, you know, driver, gunner, commander, that's three,

12:16plus four loaders, that would equal seven,

12:18but I don't know why you'd need four loaders for one gun.

12:21Um, I think there was a machine gun on it,

12:23but I'm not sure who would have been using that,

12:25maybe it was three loaders and a machine gunner,

12:27or something like that.

12:29Now tier-wise, I've put this at tier four,

12:31although it may struggle a little bit there.

12:33Um, I think it should be very low tier four.

12:36Um, battle rating-wise, it can deal with the Shermans,

12:40but once you get to the M26, it's going to struggle a little bit.

12:43So, I'm not really sure where to put it,

12:46probably something like battle rating 6.7, maybe?

12:50Um, I'm not really sure, it's kind of outclassed

12:53by most of its, um, contemporary tank destroyers.

12:56It would have to be very low, um, battle rating,

12:59no higher than 6.7, really.

13:01Um, you know, so it's probably going to go up against

13:05what the lightly-armed, or less-armoured Shermans, I suppose,

13:09and maybe the M26s at most.

13:12Otherwise, it's just going to get slaughtered.

13:15Now the next, um, self-propelled gun,

13:17or assault gun slash tank destroyer,

13:19is the Experimental Type 56 105mm self-propelled gun,

13:23and I wasn't sure whether to add it.

13:25Um, there is a photo of it, but I can't show it,

13:27so I'll link you to where you can find it.

13:29Um, but basically, it was armed with a 105mm howitzer.

13:33Now, I'm trying to read from the Japanese Wikipedia

13:36with Google Translate, which isn't all that good,

13:38but I think it was armed with the M37 105mm self-propelled howitzer.

13:44Um, other than that, I don't know the speed,

13:46um, I know it's got an enclosed, all-enclosed, um, superstructure,

13:50but I don't know what the actual armour is.

13:53Now, one of the other reasons I wasn't sure whether to include it

13:55is because, uh, looking at the penetration characteristics

13:59for the howitzer, with a high-explosive anti-tank shell,

14:02it can do 102mm of penetration.

14:05Now, if we go to the War Thunder game again,

14:07I can show you what this will allow it to deal with.

14:12So, I've put the Type 56 at tier 5,

14:14so let's look at what tier 5 tanks it could go against.

14:18Remember 102mm penetration.

14:21It can take out the rear of the turret on the M103,

14:23or the sides and rear of the hull.

14:26It can- it can take out the M46 Patton.

14:29Um, it's a bit trollish.

14:30It's got 101mm of armour, and the heat can penetrate 102mm,

14:34so I don't know how that's going to work out.

14:36The- it can penetrate the M47, um, Patton too.

14:40So, already it can beat most of the- all of the mediums,

14:44and probably do quite well against the heavy tanks, the Americans.

14:47It can beat the M26, uh,

14:50can sort of do okay against the T32 on the sides and rear of the hull.

14:55Let's go over to the Soviet Union,

14:57and look at their tier 5s.

14:59It could beat the S- ISU-152.

15:03IS-4, uh, could just about take the rear of the hull,

15:06but it- you know, that's it.

15:08IS-3 could take the rear and sides of the hull.

15:11Um, it could beat the T-54-1947 at the rears and side of the hull,

15:15and the rear of the turret.

15:17Um, again, uh, same for the T-54-1949,

15:21and the 1951.

15:23So, it could take most of the tier 5, um, Russians,

15:26and just for the sake of it, we'll look at the Germans.

15:30Uh, it could take the Karelian EZ, um,

15:32the Jagdtiger, uh, sides and rears again.

15:36The Panther II, it can do the front just about,

15:39and the sides and rears of the turret and hull.

15:42Uh, the Maus, no chance,

15:44and the Tiger II 105mm, um, the sides and rears again.

15:49So this would actually fit quite well.

15:51Um, it could beat the Panther II, so it's-

15:54and the Panther V.

15:56I think this would probably be about 6.6,

15:58uh, so it can maybe fa- face a mix of, um,

16:02tier 5 and tier, um, tier 4 and tier 5 tanks.

16:07Um, you know, I wouldn't put it too high,

16:09because as we- I've already said,

16:10it can't take out the Maus.

16:11It would struggle against the IS-4.

16:13I don't think it could even penetrate the IS-4.

16:16And I think the on- the only other one it would have trouble with

16:18is the- if we can find it again.

16:21T32, um, there's only like a few places it-

16:24you know, the sides and rear of the hull.

16:25But I think it would be quite a li-

16:27good little tank or self-propelled gun to add into the game.

16:31Now moving on from the Type 56,

16:32we have a few other tank destroyers on the Japanese tank tech tree.

16:36The M1 tank destroyer, uh, the M2 tank destroyer,

16:40and the Type 60, which the M1s are prototypes of.

16:44Now according to my book,

16:45The World's Armoured Fighting Vehicles,

16:47which, um, actually came out about the same time

16:49these were being put into production,

16:511962.

16:53The first one, the M1, was armed with two 105mm recoilless guns,

16:58and the second one was armed with two 106mm recoilless guns.

17:03Recoilless rifles, sorry.

17:05Now the Type 60, which they were prototypes of,

17:07is armed with two M40 recoilless rifles.

17:10The Type 60 is also armed with a .50 calibre spotting rifle,

17:14so maybe we could use them for helping with spotting.

17:18Now armour is actually very bad,

17:2012mm.

17:21This is really not meant to get into any sort of fights,

17:24you know, dead on, or straight on fights.

17:27Speed is 34 miles an hour,

17:29so it's, you know, it's meant to sort of shoot and scoot from the sounds of things.

17:33Now I assume the penetration characteristics are going to be similar for all of these,

17:37um, tank destroyers,

17:40which is about 400mm.

17:41In fact, I think this uses the same gun as the American M50 on TOS.

17:46Now the recoilless rifles on the Type 60 are actually fixed into place,

17:50and it only has limited traverse,

17:51something like, if I can find it, 60 degrees traverse.

17:56But according to my book,

17:57the M2 actually had a mounting with 360 degree traverse.

18:03So this could be a very, very good little tank destroyer,

18:06or that particular prototype could.

18:09I would like all of these to be added in,

18:11if possible, to boost up Japan's tier 5 numbers.

18:14That's potentially three tank destroyers if all of them are added in.

18:18I think they'd all be very useful.

18:20The only downside is that they're extremely vulnerable.

18:23Very little armor, and they're in, um, you know,

18:25it's not an enclosed superstructure,

18:27and there's only three crew,

18:28so it's going to be very easy to be killed in these.

18:32The only other problem, really,

18:33is that they only carry six rounds of ammunition,

18:36assuming two are already loaded in the tank,

18:38or in the guns,

18:39so that puts it up to eight.

18:41Not sure how Gaijin will deal with that.

18:43Maybe give it slightly faster reload at the, um, uh, cap points,

18:47but I suppose that's, you know,

18:50considering how powerful it is,

18:52that's, you know, it has to have some drawbacks, I suppose.

18:55But they'll have to be,

18:56well, they have to be tier 5 on account of being post-war

18:59and being ridiculously overpowered gun-wise.

19:03I'd say about a rating of 7.7 or something,

19:06or 8 maybe, you know,

19:08it's going to have to be going against the best of the best, really,

19:11on account of that huge penetration power on the recoilless rifles.

19:16I think they'd be very good for the game,

19:18and I hope they're added.

19:19I really hope they're added in.

19:20There'd be such good little tanks, destroyers.

19:24So anyway, I hope you've enjoyed today's episode.

19:27Leave a like if you liked the episode.

19:29Subscribe if you like these sorts of videos.

19:32Leave feedback. Could always do with more feedback.

19:33Perhaps you disagree with the tiering of the tank destroyers,

19:36or you think there should be different belt ratings.

19:39You know, I'm always free to criticism of the tech trees.

19:42But anyway, thank you for watching.

19:44I'll see you next time.

War Thunder Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Tank Destroyers & Assault Guns!

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