War Thunder Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Medium tanks (Part 2) - video Dailymotion

Toreno

In this next episode of the proposed Japanese tank tech tree, we look at the last 3 tiers of the Japanese medium tanks.  Tanks in this episode: Type 3 Chi-Nu (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 3 Chi-Nu Kai (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 4 Chi-To (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") Type 5 Chi-Ri (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") STA-1 (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") STA-2 (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai") STA-3 (Added in Update "Hot Tracks") STA-4 Type 61 (Added in Update 1.65 "Way of the Samurai")  Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree Japanese Light Tanks: https://youtu.be/a4La6cIj3U8 Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 1): https://youtu.be/6ZT_JiN0lFY Japanese Medium Tanks (Part 2): https://youtu.be/EQn_A3aWh8I Japanese Heavy Tanks: https://youtu.be/QhMx05tIZC4 Japanese Amphibious Tanks: https://youtu.be/4_paUh-5U30 Japanese Tank Destroyers & Assault Guns: https://youtu.be/w0Xxw9F-xyk Japanese SPAA: https://youtu.be/Oo0tpdRt9_k Japanese Premium Tanks: https://youtu.be/OxPzgNZo1wI   Link to War Thunder Japanese ground forces forum http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/191-japan/  Japan ground forces forum tech tree:  http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/200268-mai-waffentrager-japanese-ground-forces-tech-tree/  Information and picture citations/sources: The World's Armoured Fighting Vehicles by DR.F.M. Von Senger Und Etterlin WWII: The Directory of Weapons Weapons of World War II New Vangard. Japanese tanks: 1939-45 http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/ http://tankguy.gooside.com/type61history/Type61History.html http://www.ww2technik.de/sites/panzer/bewaffnung%20main.htm#kanone http://www.weaponsofwwii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3130 http://forum.wotlabs.net/index.php?/topic/287-penetration-data-and-expectation-of-tank-guns-used-in-service-or-tested/ http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/51183-japanese-tank-tree-guns-discussion/page__st__300#topmost http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/190952-japanese-tank-guns-and-statistics/#entry3656677  Social Media ⬇️ Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/toreno.bsky.social Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/Toreno4 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/toreno170 Mastodon: Toreno17@mastodon.social Threads: https://www.threads.net/@toreno170 Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Toreno17 Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/toreno5/videos   Game: War Thunder  ⬅️  #warthunder #japan #japan #mediumtank #tank

Transcript

00:00Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of my proposed future Japanese tank

00:04tech tree series. Now, this is the second episode dealing with the medium tank line

00:09of the Japanese tank tech tree. The last episode dealt with the first two tiers and this episode

00:14is dealing with the last three tiers, which is mainly to do with the Japanese tanks that

00:20were built but didn't really see any combat because they were kept for home defence and

00:25you know, Japan was never invaded. This is also probably the hardest episode I have ever

00:29done because there's just no information on the guns used by these tanks. There's information

00:36on what armour they had, what their speed was, what the gun was, but no information

00:40on what the penetration characteristics were. This wasn't exactly helped by the fact none

00:45of my books had the guns listed because they only went up to the 47mm gun, but there were

00:50some massively different figures given. For the Type 5, for 100m it was between 90 and

00:59115, that's something like nearly 30mm difference. For the 500m penetration values, it was between

01:0884 and 115, so you know, it's just ridiculous how different the bloody figures were. So,

01:14it was hard to give accurate battle ratings or know what the penetration characteristics

01:19were for the World War 2 tanks. It was quite hard to know which sources to believe because

01:24some were by people who seemed to specialise in Japanese armoured vehicles and tanks, some

01:30were forum posts but cited Japanese sources. It was just a mess. I'll leave all the links

01:36below in the description so you can look through them yourselves and come up with your own

01:40conclusions on which are more reliable. Fortunately, while my search for information on Japanese

01:46tank guns didn't go well, while looking through a book in town, actually the largest second

01:52hand bookshop in the country, I found a book called The World's Armoured Fighting Vehicles

01:57by Dr. F.M. von Senger and Ettelin. It was actually published in 1960 as, if I can find

02:04the proper name, Taschenberg der Panzer. Basically, the guy was a German general in the Bundeswehr.

02:11I think he actually became the commander in chief of NATO's allied forces in Central Europe.

02:17He was quite a well known guy. He fought during World War 2 at Stalingrad and various

02:22different battles. He sort of knows his stuff about tanks and his books have a lot of information

02:29on post-war tanks or immediate post-war tanks, including the Japanese tanks such as the STAs,

02:36which were the prototypes of the Type 61. Thankfully, I had a lot more information on

02:41that than I had reasonably expected. So, you know, I did worse in some areas and better in

02:46other areas. So that was pretty much everything I wanted to cover in this episode. I suppose the

02:51only other thing is I split this in two episodes after I've recorded it. So, you know, it doesn't

02:58sound like I'm starting a whole new episode when you're actually getting on the first tank. So,

03:03yeah, so just bear that in mind. But, yeah, let's get on with the episode.

03:06Now, the next tank on our list is the Type 3 Chino. This is the most powerful tank that Japan

03:15mass-produced during the war. Basically, they were designing a new tank, the Type 4 Chito,

03:21but that was going to take a long time. So it was decided to put a 75mm gun on the Type 97

03:27slash Type 1 chassis. I don't know if the armour was improved. As far as I'm aware,

03:33it was still about 50mm max, but the Type 3 75mm gun, which was the tank gun of the Type 90,

03:41was obviously much improved over the 47mm gun, which the previous tanks had used.

03:48Now, as with the other Japanese tank guns, such as the 47mm, there are conflicting reports on

03:54what its maximum penetration was. For 500m, it appears to be between 74 and 80, or 100 with

04:02special ammo. Now, this is actually quite important because the M4A2 at 500m does 76.

04:09So if the 80mm is right, this could actually be somewhat superior to the Sherman. The 67mm is

04:18also superior to the 75mm Sherman's 61mm. Now, this Sherman is 4.3, so I think that is the

04:26maximum the Type 3 Chinoo should go, 4.3, because that would be reasonably well matched. It could

04:34go lower, perhaps, because it has worse armour, 50-12mm, as well as a speed of 24mph. But I think

04:42it could do reasonably well, you know, very low tier 3 or very high tier 2, but about the same

04:50place as the M4A2 seems to be the best place for it. Oh, before I forget, crew is about 5. Again,

04:57I'm assuming it's going to be driver, bow machine gunner, commander, loader, gunner, or something

05:03like that. You know, they're actually starting to get to the point where they have a decent amount

05:07of crew in their tanks as well, so it should stand a better chance against enemy tanks, you know.

05:12You're not going to lose all your crew because they were knocked out, you know, because you only

05:17had one guy as the gunner. Now, there was also another version of the Type 3, the Chinoo-K.

05:22Basically, they took the Type 4 Chito turret with the Type 5 75mm gun and they put it on the Type 3.

05:30Now, I was somewhat conflicted about whether this should be a premium or not, but basically the Type

05:365 75mm gun is much more powerful than the Type 3. 90-115mm penetration at 100m, 84-115mm at 500m,

05:50or 75-77mm at 1000m. Now, once again, this makes it rather hard to accurately tier it or put a

05:59good battle rating for it, because if it does 90mm penetration at 100m, it's inferior to this

06:0776mm Sherman. If it does 115mm, it's about the same or even better. Same with about the 500m stats,

06:14but it's inferior at the 1000m stats. It should be able to penetrate the Sherman easily, but

06:19it's hard to put an accurate battle rating for it. If we take the higher penetration characteristics

06:27as the genuine ones, then it should be a battle rating of 4.75, you know, maybe to face M4A1s

06:35with the 76mm gun. If it's not, then somewhere between the M4A2 and the M4A1, or you know,

06:43slightly higher than the Type 3 Chinoo, like regular version. But I don't think it's any

06:49different in armour or speed as far as I can tell, but like I say, it can be a bit hard to

06:53accurately tier it because of the gun characteristic problems or lack of information on them.

07:00Just looking at the pictures for a second, there are a lot more tanks there than I expected there

07:05would be. I think the ones behind the Type 3 are the gun tanks, the Type 1 or Type 3 Honeys.

07:14There's a lot more tanks than you'd expect to be there, you know,

07:17considering Japan's not particularly well known for producing lots of tanks.

07:21Now the next tank on our list is the Type 4 Chaito. This is the most advanced Japanese

07:27tank to reach production, but it wasn't mass produced. Only something like six were built

07:32or something, and only two were actually completed. But this was a massive improvement

07:37on previous Japanese tanks, you know, they'd really learnt how to build tanks really good

07:41by this point. They just were sort of stalled by production issues, because obviously the

07:46bombing raids and a lot of it was still hand-built from what I understand.

07:51But it had the Type 5 75mm gun, which we talked about a minute ago,

07:55has some rather conflicting penetration characteristics. It also had much improved

08:02armour, 75-12mm of armour. So, you know, it's actually reasonably well protected.

08:09And it also did 28mph, so pretty fast, and 5 crew. Again, I'm going to assume

08:15driver, bow machine gunner, loader, gunner, commander, something like that.

08:20So, so far it's sounding like a really good tank, and it is, compared to previous ones,

08:24really good gun, good armour, good speed. But where does it go, battle rating-wise?

08:30Now the Chinook, it's better than that, obviously. So the Chito, I think, could

08:37possibly 5, 5.3, that really seems the highest I could put it. It shouldn't go too low though,

08:43if it goes to 4.3, it's going to be slaughtering enemy Shermans, and be overpowered against them.

08:49Um, so really 5, 5.3 seems the high point, but not much higher than that, and probably not too

08:56much lower than that. Um, but other than, yeah, basically I think that would be a really good

09:00battle rating for it, and it does seem like a really good tank. Now the next tank on our list

09:05is the Type 5 Chivy. Um, this is passed over in favour of the Type 4 Chito, but they still

09:12managed to produce one prototype, um, without the gun. It's actually pointing rearwards

09:16in the picture, but it also had a Type 1 37mm anti-tank gun, and two 7.7mm machine guns. Um,

09:24also quite heavily armoured, um, if I can find it, 75mm at the hull front, 25-50 on the sides,

09:3250 on the rear, 50 on the turret. Um, and it had a, if I can find it, 550hp BMW aircraft engine,

09:40giving it a speed of 28mph. Now crew rise, it seems to have had 5 crew, um, again I'm going

09:46to have to guess, uh, driver, gunner, commander, and possibly someone for that, um, frontal

09:52anti-tank gun. I don't know if there'd be a loader somewhere, or how that would work, but,

09:57uh, you know, it could be a bit of a disadvantage, because obviously that, if you lose your main

10:01gunner, that 37mm gun isn't going to be able to do much at, um, tier 4. Now this seems, um,

10:08quite similar to the M4A3, um, 76 in games, um, armour wise, you know, better at the frontal

10:14armour, and slightly worse in other areas of the armour, and if we go with the optimistic

10:18penetration characteristics, it has a better gun, so I think 5.7 is probably the max where it should

10:24go, because I think there'd be a good match for each of the M4A3, 76, and the Type 5 Chivy,

10:29they'd be evenly matched, although it could go lower if Gaijin feel like it, or if they feel

10:35the need for it. However, um, this is only the bog standard Type 5 Chivy, I mean, okay,

10:40there was only one built, but apparently they were going to plan additional weaponry for it,

10:44or different guns, um, ranging from tray-fed, um, ammo systems, so you could fire three shells

10:52in quick succession before having to do a normal reload, a belt-fed 75mm gun, like with a, um,

11:00you know, like a machine gun, uh, an 88mm gun, or a 105mm gun, uh, here's a picture of the

11:08gun, apparently that's it with the tray-fed, um, method, um, now I don't know how far along these

11:14got in production, or prototype testing, I don't even know if they were meant to have them,

11:19I've heard the 88mm gun was meant to be on it in some sources, others say there's no

11:23references to it, um, but apparently the turret was quite large for these, um, you know,

11:29because it wasn't meant to have the Type 5, or normal Type 5 gun. Now, I don't know what to put

11:35as a battle rating for them tanks, um, because one, I don't know if they'd be put in game or not,

11:39um, which is why I've bolded and put them underlined, um, I suppose 6 or 6.3 for the,

11:46or 6 for the, um, belt-fed or tray-fed, um, 75mm, if it's put in game or if it existed,

11:53uh, for the 88 or 105, it would have to be quite a lot higher, but I don't know how high,

11:58probably the same as the Pershing, which is, uh, 6.7, um, for the 88mm, 105 could possibly go

12:077, but I think 6.7 for those, the 88mm and 105mm guns, if they existed, I mean,

12:14I'm only mentioning them because otherwise, you know, I'll probably get people complaining I

12:18didn't talk about it completely, and just to let you know what could potentially be put in the game.

12:24Now the next tanks are technically outside of the cut-off date, but there seems to be a slightly

12:28different cut-off date for tanks, uh, but these were built in 1956 to 1960, and they are the STA

12:351, 2, 3 and 4 and the Type 61. Now I haven't got pictures of the STAs because they're basically

12:41copyright and, you know, I don't want to get in trouble, so, um, but they were prototypes for the

12:46Type 61, so I've got Type 61 pictures, um, in place of them. Of course I will link you to where

12:53you can find pictures of them, however, so you can still have a look at them. Now from what I

12:57understand, all of the STAs and the, um, Type 61s are armed with the same 90mm gun. My book also

13:04mentions a 12.7mm anti-aircraft machine gun and one 7.7mm machine gun. Now the STA 1 did look

13:12kind of similar to the Type 61 that you can see here, but it was longer and, uh, lower down. It

13:17had seven white road wheels and a lower down turret, and was actually passed over in favour

13:22of the STA 2, which, um, had a higher up turret. It looked more like the STA, um, sorry, Type 61

13:28you can see in this picture, but was also, uh, superior in mobility. From what I understand,

13:33both the STA 1 and STA 2 had four crew and 75mm of armour. Um, there isn't a bow machine gun that

13:40I can see, so I assume driver, commander, gunner, loader. Now the STA 3, um, wasn't too different

13:47in, um, general shape, but they tried out a semi-automatic loading system, uh, for firing

13:52the gun or loading the gun. And the AA machine gun was apparently, um, remote controlled, but

13:58because this is apparently, um, well it doesn't, it wasn't always reliable in costs, um, this was

14:03omitted in the Type, uh, sorry, in the STA 4. Uh, the STA 4 was, uh, it doesn't seem to, again, not

14:10too different from the STA 3, uh, they've, they got rid of the semi-automatic loading, the engine

14:15was improved a little, and I suppose other minor changes. Now I can't actually find the name of

14:21the 90mm gun used by the STAs, none of my sources, um, give a name. Um, I've heard some generic Type

14:2761 90mm gun, I've heard others say it was the M3 gun used by the M26 Pershing. I've also heard it

14:36was, um, a slightly better gun of the 90mm gun used by the M26 Pershing. Um, so using the M26

14:43Pershing as a baseline, that does something like 144mm of penetration at 1000m. Um, the M46, um,

14:53also does about the same, yeah, it does the same, it uses the same shell, same gun.

14:58So based on the gun, I think they probably, well, they should be Tier 5 because they're post-war,

15:03um, but very low battle rating. 7, 7 is really the highest I can recommend it being on the

15:09medium tank line, um, because it's got inferior armour as well. Now of course, as there's four

15:15prototypes and they're all quite similar, I, it's possible Gaijin won't add all of them. If I had

15:20to choose, I'd say the STA1 and the STA2 because there's such massive changes between them. Um,

15:25it's also possible they'd do slightly different battle ratings for all of the tanks, um, which

15:30I wouldn't mind too much, I could, um, shake it up a little bit, um, so you can get used to fighting

15:35the higher tier tanks, um, or higher battle rating tanks as you move towards the Type 61,

15:41um, giving you a sort of sense of progress, I suppose. Now moving on to the Type 61, it wasn't

15:46actually that different from the, uh, prototypes from what I can see, uh, same 90mm gun, uh,

15:51much improved armour however, uh, 55mm on the hull to 114mm on the turret, and it was quite fast,

15:5927mph, or 28mph if you're rounding up. Um, so where should that go? It's got much better armour,

16:07um, probably should be facing the M47 Patton, but there is the chance you'll end up facing

16:14higher tiered, um, Russian tanks that will completely slaughter it, um, the T-54s were

16:20the same battle rating as the Pattons, um, so maybe, well, I can't really put it between the

16:26Patton, like 7.5, 7.6, so I don't think there are any 7.6 type of tanks, so 8 for the, um,

16:34Type 61 itself would be a good battle rating for it. Well anyway, that's it for today's episode,

16:40um, hopefully the episode has given you a bit of an insight into what medium tanks Japan could use

16:45in the higher tiers, um, hopefully it dispels the myth that Japan just doesn't have anything past

16:51tier 2 or 3, um, as you can see here, you've got a somewhat manageable tank tech tree that could

16:57work in the higher tiers, maybe not as well as some of the other, um, nations' tanks, um, tech

17:02trees, but, you know, I think Japan could be able to at least hold its own, or do reasonably well

17:07in tanks, um, in the higher tiers, but anyway, um, thanks for watching, leave a like if you like

17:13the video, subscribe if you like these sorts of videos, leave feedback, could always do with more

17:18feedback, um, yeah, thanks for watching, I'll see you next time.

War Thunder Proposed Japanese Tank Tech Tree - Medium tanks (Part 2)

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