Sizing up Bostons 2024-25 season and schedule w/ Howard Beck | Celtics Lab - video Dailymotion

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A. Sherrod Blakely and Josue Pavon discuss the Celtics' schedule, games to look forward to seeing; Jayson Tatum and Team USA fall-out, Tatum's future with Team USA and now that his season is finally over, and what some things (3-point shooting) that Tatum need to work on.   CLNS Media is Powered by:   Prize Picks - PrizePicks.com/CLNS  Download the app today and use code CLNS for a first deposit match up to $100!   Gametime - https://gametime.co  Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. Terms apply.  Elevate your style game on and off the course with the PXG Spring Summer 2024 collection. Head over to https://PXG.com/GARDENREPORT and save 10% on all apparel.  Nutrafol Men! Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com/MEN and enter the promo code GARDEN!   #celtics #NBA #BostonCeltics The CLNS Media Network is the leading provider for video/audio content. CLNS is a fully credentialed member of the media with access to all NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB teams & venues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------  CLNS' rebuilt their YouTube community in less than 12 months, during a pandemic that attacked sports. Wondering how? Find out here (and support our channel) - https://www.tubebuddy.com/clnsmedia  Visit the Official Home of CLNS Sports Coverage -  https://clnsmedia.com  Twitter - https://twitter.com/CLNSMedia Celtics - https://twitter.com/celticsclns Patriots - https://twitter.com/patriotsclns Bruins - https://twitter.com/bruinsclns Red Sox - https://twitter.com/redsoxclns Non-Sports - https://twitter.com/northstation Facebook - http://facebook.com/clnsmedia INSTA - http://Instagram.com/clnsmedia INSTA Celtics - http://Instagram.com/celticsclns INSTA History - http://Instagram.com/nbahistoryclns

Transcript

00:00:00Celtics Lab is brought to you by Price Picks and the Game Time app.

00:00:07All right, welcome to another episode of the Celtics Lab podcast.

00:00:10I am your guest host today, Alex Goldberg, taking the reigns from our guy,

00:00:14Cam Pebble Dubai, who is not with us today.

00:00:17He's on vacation. We're taking a little break.

00:00:19Instead, we are bringing in the legend, Howard Beck of the Ringer and of the,

00:00:26and sorry, could you just rename, restate your podcast name one more time?

00:00:30All good. It's The Real Ones with Logan Murdoch and Raja Bell and me.

00:00:36That's so cool.

00:00:37Good to see you guys. Good to join you.

00:00:39Sorry, I'm going to geek out about Raja Bell for a second.

00:00:42Like one of my favorite players to watch as a child.

00:00:45Don't say that. It'll just go to his head.

00:00:47I know. That's completely right.

00:00:51Well, fabulous. Thank you for joining us, Howard.

00:00:53We appreciate it. And we're going to jump in in just a second.

00:00:56First off, JQ, how are you doing today, Dr. Quinn?

00:01:00Well, while all you guys enjoy your fancy time off,

00:01:05I have a whole bunch of stuff I can't talk about.

00:01:08Internal employment stuff that is going to require me to do a bunch of fun things.

00:01:12So you never know how off-season is actually going to go.

00:01:16But I have a job. I'm thankful for that.

00:01:20That is true. You never know how the off-season is going to go.

00:01:22Although at this point, things are at least somewhat settled with the off-season.

00:01:26And we're going to get into that in just a minute.

00:01:30Before we get started, of course, this is the Celtics Lab podcast.

00:01:33And this episode of the Celtics Lab podcast is brought to you by PrizePix,

00:01:36the exclusive fantasy basketball partner of the CLNS Media Network.

00:01:40Celtics Lab is also brought to you by Game Time Tickets,

00:01:43last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed.

00:01:45And as we mentioned before, this episode,

00:01:47we're going to talk a few things about our predictions for last year

00:01:52and how they bore out what this next season might look like broadly

00:01:58and what we might think we'll see from the Celtics

00:02:00heading into next year by the end of the season.

00:02:03So we're going to jump right into it.

00:02:05Obviously, Howard, Boston Celtics and our beloved team

00:02:09had a very good year this year, winning the title in fairly dominant fashion.

00:02:15Things are looking good if you're a fan of the team in green.

00:02:20So we're going to go to you first.

00:02:24Give us, I guess, a sense of kind of what you were thinking about

00:02:29with regard to this Celtics team last summer around this time.

00:02:33We can kind of go from whatever period you want.

00:02:35Obviously, they made a couple of huge moves.

00:02:39Marcus Smart out the door, Malcolm Brogdon out the door,

00:02:42Rob Williams out the door.

00:02:45In comes Chris Daps Porzingis and Drew Holliday,

00:02:47two essential pieces of their ultimate title run.

00:02:50But around this time last year, what were you thinking about this team?

00:02:55So it's sometimes hard to remember that far back,

00:02:59but I do recall that when we were asked on TheRinger.com

00:03:04to make our predictions for the season,

00:03:06I think I went box over Lakers or something for the finals.

00:03:11That went well.

00:03:14But I think my box pick was one of those like coin flips.

00:03:17It was definitely like going to be box or Celtics.

00:03:20And at this time of year, meaning the offseason

00:03:23and all the way into October, I kind of always default to

00:03:29what I like to refer to as like the volatility index.

00:03:32Basically, it's I start looking at unknowns, right?

00:03:34I start you look at all the teams that have a plausible case to be made.

00:03:40As champions or at least finals entrance, right?

00:03:44Teams that can win their conference.

00:03:47And then within that group, you start going,

00:03:49all right, what do I what am I uncertain about?

00:03:51Where's the volatility?

00:03:53And for the Celtics, it was, well, Marcus Smart was really integral to this team.

00:03:59He meant a lot to them, not just as a player,

00:04:01but just spiritually, for lack of a better term.

00:04:04What does it mean for this Celtics team to not have Marcus Smart?

00:04:07I don't know.

00:04:08What does it mean to have him replaced by Drew Holiday?

00:04:11And Drew brings all these wonderful things to the table

00:04:14and check some of the same general boxes, though, in different ways.

00:04:20But still, it's a change.

00:04:22And one of the things I think I've learned in 27 years of covering this league is that

00:04:26sometimes a great team, you pull one thread,

00:04:30even if it was like the fourth man, the seventh man sometimes.

00:04:33And it changes everything in terms of just the chemistry

00:04:36or maybe it's the locker room conscience.

00:04:38And that was certainly a Marcus Smart thing, right?

00:04:40Like he was the locker room conscience.

00:04:42He's the guy who could call out Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum

00:04:44earlier in their careers when somebody needed to check them.

00:04:49So I just wasn't sure.

00:04:50And there was a lot of names out the door, right?

00:04:52Grant Williams, Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon, Porzingis.

00:04:56You know, love the outline of what Porzingis could mean to them.

00:04:59But he's never been on a team that's won anything.

00:05:02He's never played in meaningful games.

00:05:04Oh, yeah, he's got an injury history.

00:05:05Is he going to stay healthy?

00:05:07Is he going to be able to perform at the same level in Boston with all the pressure

00:05:11and scrutiny that he did with meaningless games in Washington?

00:05:16So there were just a lot of unknowns.

00:05:18And so in my own defense, I think I leaned bucks just out of

00:05:23sake of recognition of their continuity and that they'd won a championship in recent memory.

00:05:29So that was it.

00:05:31It wasn't any real knock on Boston.

00:05:33Um, I do recall, though, and I agreed with this take that in October of last year,

00:05:42everybody universally, I think, agree like this was the consensus view that the Celtics had on

00:05:46paper the best starting five and probably the best one through six in the NBA.

00:05:51That being the case, I don't think anything that came after that should be a surprise.

00:05:55I don't think it's a surprise they won a championship.

00:05:56I don't think it's a surprise that they won 64 games.

00:05:58And once they did win 64 games, I certainly don't think it's a

00:06:01surprise that they would then win a championship because teams that win 64 and up have a pretty

00:06:07good track record of winning titles in the history of the NBA.

00:06:10So that's what I can recall from last summer.

00:06:16You're muted, Alex.

00:06:19Alex, you are muted.

00:06:23Apologies.

00:06:24Sorry about that.

00:06:26I think that's completely fair, Howard.

00:06:28And I think that it's interesting, you know, kind of the way you framed that as, you know,

00:06:34a number of things being uncertain until it became fairly clear that they were going to

00:06:40be a little more certain.

00:06:41JQ, I want to go to you.

00:06:43What did you, I mean, we have the old episode.

00:06:46We can always go back.

00:06:47But what were you thinking around this time last year with regard to this team?

00:06:52I was cautiously optimistic.

00:06:54One of the things I think, you know, we convened to do this last time.

00:07:00We nailed the trades for Smart and Brogden.

00:07:03It was pretty obvious they were out the door.

00:07:06Maybe not to the kind of return we ended up getting back.

00:07:09I don't think anybody really thought that Chris Apsperzingas and Drew Holiday would

00:07:13be on this team.

00:07:15At that point, it was pretty clear that things were looking very, very good.

00:07:18But before all that happened, when we were still looking at what was available, I was

00:07:23cautiously optimistic.

00:07:24And it's important to keep in mind this is with an injured Rob.

00:07:27This is with a questionable Brogden situation.

00:07:30Like there were a lot of still questions yet to be answered when we did this last time.

00:07:35But I think that we did a pretty good job of outlining how some of the more important

00:07:40things that needed to be done were finished or going to be finished.

00:07:45The front court depth issues were also something that we pointed out.

00:07:50And even though they have won a title, that hasn't entirely gone away.

00:07:55And going back to what Howard said about the unknowns of what can happen when a single

00:08:02player is suddenly missing from the equation, it's going to be really curious to see how

00:08:08his absence, until at least we're assuming December, is going to impact this team moving

00:08:13forward.

00:08:14Presumably, they're going to be OK, because as all of us know, the core has been the same.

00:08:21And it was that same core that was giving me optimism about Boston's chances.

00:08:25I was a little nervous, I think, to come out and say, yeah, we're definitely winning the

00:08:28title and anything more than this is a Celtics podcast kind of take.

00:08:33But I am really curious to hear what you guys think this new situation with Kristaps, how

00:08:40that is going to impact the season ahead.

00:08:42Because we now know the schedule.

00:08:44The schedule is going to be pretty light for the first couple of months of the season,

00:08:47which is exactly what you want if you want to try to tinker around with depth pieces

00:08:52to try to find out who can help pick up the slack when he's out.

00:08:56But is it going to be a lot of damage when he is out?

00:08:59I mean, what do we think is going to be the result of this long-term injury?

00:09:02I want to swing to that in just one second, just to briefly touch on something you kind

00:09:06of said previously, and then we'll move on.

00:09:09I think for me, at least with this team last year, I will pretty openly cop to saying that

00:09:15I was really nervous about how this was going to go.

00:09:18I think I was potentially more nervous than both you or Cam in some respects.

00:09:24I was very worried about the lack of Marcus Smart, particularly in terms of point guard

00:09:29depth until prior to the Drew Holiday trade, which to me felt like a way to really stabilize

00:09:36what would have been, in my opinion, a pretty dangerously thin roster at guard had they

00:09:42not done that.

00:09:44For me, the front court depth thing, just really quickly, and then we'll kind of get

00:09:48into future forward.

00:09:50I also need to cop to having, you know, kind of somewhat listened to last year's episodes

00:09:56and stuff like that.

00:09:57I underestimated Al Horford again, guys.

00:10:00I keep doing, I keep thinking.

00:10:02Luke Cornett, I was his worst critic.

00:10:04I keep thinking that Al Horford is eventually going to show some signs of slowing down from

00:10:11being an elite do-it-all center that can just give you absolutely everything you need in

00:10:16the most important moments of the game.

00:10:18And every year, Al Horford proves me wrong and shows that there is, in fact, no age cap

00:10:24on being the guy that he is when you work as hard as he does.

00:10:28So once again, for what feels like the 10 millionth time, mea culpa, Al Horford.

00:10:34I am so sorry.

00:10:36Continue to prove me wrong.

00:10:37It is one of my favorite things to watch in basketball.

00:10:40All right, so let's move on to the future of this front court and this team.

00:10:45Generally, obviously, this week, the NBA schedule for next season dropped.

00:10:51Howard, I want to get your just immediate snapshot take Boston Celtics schedule.

00:10:56What did you see that was of interest to you?

00:11:0141 home games, 41 road games.

00:11:04I did not look beyond that.

00:11:05I'll be honest.

00:11:05Even though I knew I was coming on this podcast, I honestly like it.

00:11:12I am not here to criticize anybody who wants to go game by game, week by week, and analyze

00:11:18their favorite team's schedule.

00:11:20The ins and outs, the swings, the unfair back to backs.

00:11:28Our guys are not going to have rest when they're going up against the nuggets at altitude in

00:11:33mid-January.

00:11:35It's fine.

00:11:36Go to it, people.

00:11:37Have at it.

00:11:38It's great.

00:11:39It's not the way I consume the game or the league because I have no emotional investment

00:11:44and I don't care who wins and loses.

00:11:46I'm really not looking.

00:11:47They're all going to play 41 home, 41 road.

00:11:49Yes, there's nuance to that.

00:11:51No, it's not exactly even.

00:11:54Yes, the West has it tougher because the Western Conference is still a stronger conference

00:11:57by far overall.

00:11:58Yes, there are other kinds of inequities in terms of miles traveled and, yeah, rest games

00:12:05or lack of rest games and numbers of back to backs and all that.

00:12:10But the league has done a pretty good job over the years of streamlining and making

00:12:14the schedule more efficient, less onerous across the board.

00:12:17They've ratcheted down the number of back to backs.

00:12:19They've eliminated four games in five nights.

00:12:20They've eliminated five games in seven nights.

00:12:23I think they've eliminated six in nine or whatever, too.

00:12:26They've done a lot to make it more player friendly.

00:12:32And they put a lot into this.

00:12:34There's a lot.

00:12:37There are entire armies of people putting this stuff together.

00:12:41Back when I had my own podcast, The Full 48, when I was back at Bleacher Report, I did.

00:12:45Good podcast.

00:12:46It became, thank you.

00:12:47It became one of my annual favorite things to do was in August, I would have the schedule

00:12:52makers on.

00:12:52I'm the one who dubbed them the schedule czars.

00:12:55I will take credit for that.

00:12:57And it's Evan Wash and Tom Pirelli and a whole team of people.

00:13:01But the two of them would come on.

00:13:02We talk about this.

00:13:03And it's incredible the amount of thought and data and considerations and variables

00:13:09and everything else that goes into it.

00:13:11So I'm fascinated by the process of it.

00:13:14I'm less fascinated by the actual results.

00:13:18Other than, like everybody else, I'll be like, oh, let's see who's playing on Christmas.

00:13:21Let's see who's playing on opening night and that kind of stuff.

00:13:23But yeah, I mean, I'm curious to see what you guys think, because you're looking at

00:13:30it through a much more macro view or micro view, I guess I should say.

00:13:37I mean, do you feel like this?

00:13:40You just mentioned one of those features of the selfless schedule, which is that it looks

00:13:44a little bit light in the early months when that actually is a good thing without Porzingis.

00:13:48Because I do think, yeah, there's a bit of a survival mechanism here, where it's how

00:13:52well do they get through without him?

00:13:55Although I will also say, if we can get into it, I'm not sure it's going to matter.

00:13:59But anyway.

00:14:01I have a really quick follow up to that, and then we will get into it.

00:14:04In general, how much do you think the schedule matters as far as a team's outcome for the

00:14:11regular season and the way the schedule is structured?

00:14:14I wonder if, as fans, sometimes we maybe put too much weight on things like schedule structure

00:14:23and strength of schedule and things like that.

00:14:24I guess I'm curious for your take on that.

00:14:26The schedule is not the reason that anybody does or does not win the championship.

00:14:30Just like when they switch from the 2-3-2 in the finals to the 2-2-1-1-1, and as somebody

00:14:35who started covering the league when it was still the 2-3-2 and came up on that and grew

00:14:38up on that, I didn't think it was necessary.

00:14:42They did it for a variety of reasons, including presumably some competitive concerns about

00:14:49fairness and all this.

00:14:51I mean, go through NBA history.

00:14:52The team that should have won generally wins, and there's no evidence that the 2-3-2 was

00:14:58the reason that a team didn't win the title.

00:14:59There's no evidence that the schedule, the 82 game schedule, is a reason that a team

00:15:03didn't.

00:15:03So to me, it's kind of immaterial.

00:15:06That doesn't mean that the league shouldn't go to great lengths to try to make it as

00:15:10equitable as possible for all 30 teams in terms of travel and back-to-backs and all

00:15:15these other features.

00:15:16But that said, you can't fix the fact that the Portland Trailblazers are on an island

00:15:22up in the Pacific Northwest where there are no Seattle Supersonics or Vancouver Grizzlies,

00:15:26where once upon a time there was.

00:15:28And because of that, they're going to travel more miles than any other team pretty much

00:15:32every year without fail.

00:15:34So you can't solve for everything.

00:15:38And generally speaking, the best teams win out anyway.

00:15:41The best talent wins out.

00:15:42The team that had the best health and good fortune wins out.

00:15:48It's fun to talk about the schedule.

00:15:50I don't think it matters that much.

00:15:52All righty.

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00:16:52Okay.

00:16:53Back to the show.

00:16:54JQ.

00:16:55All right.

00:16:55Let's deep dive on it.

00:16:57The Boston Celtics, among other things, for their schedule have 34 national TV games,

00:17:05which is the third most in the NBA, following, of course, the Los Angeles Lakers,

00:17:09who lead things at 39, and the Golden State Warriors at 36.

00:17:14It also features, among other things, 13 back-to-backs.

00:17:18JQ, I'm curious.

00:17:19Between the national TV games and the back-to-backs,

00:17:23what are you seeing as far as kind of wrinkles of this schedule?

00:17:26Let's start with the national TV games.

00:17:29Boston Celtics are reigning champs.

00:17:32Why do they not have the most national TV games?

00:17:34Did you check the general vibes of the ratings for the Dallas Mavericks finals?

00:17:40It wasn't super popular compared to a lot of others.

00:17:43And let's be honest, the Golden State Warriors and the Los Angeles Lakers,

00:17:49they are big media draws, which is why I think they have more national TV games.

00:17:54Honestly, the Celtics were boringly dominant last season,

00:17:58and it didn't really draw in a lot of people.

00:18:01I don't know why, but that's what happened.

00:18:04So I think, from a business perspective, the league is just signing TV games,

00:18:10or probably the broadcasters, if we're being honest,

00:18:12are signing TV games for the stuff they think is going to bring more revenue.

00:18:16Listen, if you thought anything about that Boston Celtics run was boring...

00:18:21You don't know what I mean.

00:18:23There wasn't a different sport than I am.

00:18:26Anyway, 13 back-to-backs is another big feature for the Boston Celtics schedule.

00:18:33Obviously, the league has been trying to reduce back-to-backs generally.

00:18:38Howard, what do you take away from the 13 back-to-backs,

00:18:41and in particular, how it might affect Boston's season, anything?

00:18:45I think it's right at about the league average.

00:18:47I think the average is right around that zone.

00:18:50So if you have 13, 12, 14, 15, everybody's going to be somewhere in that range,

00:18:55for the most part.

00:18:56So I don't put too much in that,

00:18:59and you'd have to then look at the actual back-to-backs

00:19:01and see who they're playing in each pairing,

00:19:04and whether you think that may adversely affect them.

00:19:06But again, every team's going to have somewhere in that range of back-to-backs.

00:19:10Every team's got to deal with it.

00:19:11So it's not something I would spend a lot of time thinking about.

00:19:15I do think it's funny.

00:19:20I try to make it a policy as a reporter

00:19:22not to tell fans what they should think or feel about whatever.

00:19:26The team, their team, the league, anything.

00:19:33There's an emotional investment in fandom.

00:19:34That's the whole point of the exercise.

00:19:37And so whether that's joy, anger, frustration, whatever,

00:19:40it's all part of it.

00:19:42So I'm not going to try to tell people as a matter of general policy,

00:19:45personally, what they should think.

00:19:47That said, I do like to tweak overall fan attitudes sometimes.

00:19:51I have a hashtag, fan grievance, or NBA grievance Twitter,

00:19:57I think is what I've dubbed it on Twitter,

00:19:59because grievance is such a big part now of fan discourse,

00:20:06of NBA discourse, period.

00:20:08The national games thing, it's just funny.

00:20:13So the Celtics have fewer national TV games than the Lakers and Warriors.

00:20:16Well, the Lakers have LeBron James and the Warriors have Steph Curry,

00:20:19and these are two of the greatest players in the history of the game.

00:20:22And as great as Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown are,

00:20:26they're not Steph Curry and LeBron James.

00:20:28This is not an insult.

00:20:30This is not something to be upset over.

00:20:31Again, I'm not going to tell fans what to think.

00:20:33If you want to be upset about this, fine.

00:20:36That's great.

00:20:36If you think your team has been insulted, fine.

00:20:39I'm not going to be able to talk you out of it.

00:20:40But LeBron and Steph Curry are just, they're ratings drivers.

00:20:45They are guaranteed bank.

00:20:47And Tatum and Brown are really good.

00:20:50And the whole team collectively is really good.

00:20:54They don't drive ratings the same way that LeBron James and Steph Curry do.

00:20:57That's it.

00:20:57It's really that simple.

00:20:59And I don't think it's, you know, whatever.

00:21:02People, if they're going to get upset about it, they will.

00:21:04That's fine.

00:21:05I think I'm less concerned about whether the fans are upset and more thinking about

00:21:10what are the ways that Joe Mizzoula will use this perceived slight to

00:21:14motivate and fuel the Boston Celtics going forward.

00:21:17There is nobody better in the world at taking what is a very small thing

00:21:22and turning it into a massive war against the Boston Celtics specifically than Joe Mizzoula.

00:21:28So I'm excited for that one.

00:21:30So 13 back-to-backs, you know, league average about.

00:21:35There's a couple of tough stretches here for Boston.

00:21:39They have a back-to-back in which they're at Cleveland,

00:21:43and then they play Miami the next day in Boston.

00:21:47They have a game against Milwaukee and then following the Memphis Grizzlies,

00:21:52who we'll get to season preview a little later.

00:21:55But I think JQ, I can speak for both of us in saying that

00:21:58we're feeling reasonably good about what's going on in Memphis,

00:22:01or at least better than it could have been last year.

00:22:05Those back-to-backs, too, are only two of the 13 where they're facing an opponent that is,

00:22:10shall we say, very likely to be good when the Celtics play them.

00:22:14So as far as back-to-backs go, this is a pretty light schedule of them.

00:22:19And in general, I think the conclusion for this schedule is that,

00:22:22as we said before, the Celtics' first couple of months are fairly light here.

00:22:28And that is going to be important for Boston,

00:22:29specifically with their front court rotation.

00:22:31Howard, earlier you said that with regard to the Kristaps Porzingis entry,

00:22:37obviously he's going to be out probably till December, maybe January,

00:22:41you hinted at that it might not matter that much for the Boston Celtics.

00:22:46Let's expand on that.

00:22:47What is your thinking about the state of this front court heading into next year?

00:22:51Yeah, I mean, this is not to diminish the concerns about the front court,

00:22:54because I think those are real.

00:22:55And I think even, again, this time last year, or whatever, in October of last year,

00:23:02I don't remember where we were at this time last year, which moves have been made.

00:23:05But going into the season, it was fair to have at least some concern for the Celtics that

00:23:12Horford being the age that he is with the miles he's got on him,

00:23:15and Porzingis' health history, injury history,

00:23:18that those things combined could spell some concern for the Celtics.

00:23:23They won 64 games.

00:23:24They were fine.

00:23:25They won a championship.

00:23:26They were fine.

00:23:27They won a championship despite Porzingis getting hurt in the finals.

00:23:32But every year, I think, that goes by, you know,

00:23:35the Horford question becomes that much more urgent.

00:23:38And there's that many more miles.

00:23:40And lo and behold, Porzingis is, I don't want to say hurt again,

00:23:45but recovering from stuff again, and won't be available.

00:23:50And won't be available.

00:23:51And yeah, I think there's only so many Cornet contests that the world can endure.

00:23:57But the reason I'm downplaying the overall impact is,

00:24:03as long as they can nurse Horford through and not burn him out while Porzingis is out,

00:24:08and as long as Horford doesn't get hurt himself,

00:24:10as long as Porzingis is back on schedule, and they get through the rest of the season,

00:24:16it won't really matter.

00:24:17And the reason I say it won't really matter is this.

00:24:20I worry less for a team that's already a defending champion

00:24:24in terms of the way they perform in a regular season.

00:24:28First of all, most defending champions are going to win fewer games

00:24:30after winning the championship.

00:24:32I don't have the numbers on that,

00:24:33but I'm pretty sure that's the case more often than not.

00:24:36I don't think they're winning 64 games again,

00:24:38and that's not a knock.

00:24:39It's just reality.

00:24:42And I always say it's more important for a young team.

00:24:46So the Thunder were a number one seed and obviously did not make the finals,

00:24:51but a young team that has not been through the battles of the playoffs

00:24:55and just the intensity of a postseason,

00:24:57it's more important for them to have home court in a theoretical Game 7

00:25:00or a decisive Game 5 in a 2-2 series.

00:25:03You know what I mean?

00:25:04It matters if you don't have the experience.

00:25:07When you have the experience, you can shrug and say,

00:25:11man, we've seen it all.

00:25:12And the Celtics had already basically seen it all

00:25:13even before they won the championship, right?

00:25:15They'd been to the finals.

00:25:16They'd been to multiple conference finals.

00:25:18They'd been in Game 7s.

00:25:19They'd done everything.

00:25:21So I think if they need to take their foot off the gas,

00:25:28either by choice or just by subconsciously, that's what happens,

00:25:34or because Porzingis is out, whatever it may be,

00:25:37if they're third or fourth in the regular season instead of first,

00:25:40I don't think it really matters that much.

00:25:43I don't think home court advantage is critical for a team

00:25:46that has already proven itself and that is veteran.

00:25:48It's more important for a young, unproven team,

00:25:51like I say, like the Thunder example.

00:25:53So, you know, we'll see.

00:25:56They may find creative ways to get through it.

00:25:59Maybe they find a way to swing a deal for, you know,

00:26:03another 4-5 type to plug in

00:26:07while they're waiting for Porzingis to get back.

00:26:09That'll be hard with the second half.

00:26:11It's almost impossible.

00:26:12It's almost impossible.

00:26:14And that's the thing.

00:26:15Like you can't even grade the offseason other than to say,

00:26:17hey, they've got all the most important pieces back

00:26:20from a defending champion.

00:26:21What else are you going to ask for?

00:26:22And given this new economy,

00:26:25this new NBA economy with the second apron

00:26:27and making it virtually impossible to add significant talent

00:26:32for sometimes any players at all, it just is what it is.

00:26:36Yeah.

00:26:37I think I would not expect any significant additions

00:26:41for Boston outside of a few depth pieces,

00:26:43a couple of ring chasers at minimum salaries here and there.

00:26:46Still interested to see what happens with O'Shea Percet.

00:26:49Haven't gotten any word on that.

00:26:52A couple of, so we mentioned, you know,

00:26:54among other things that it's probably,

00:26:55and I think JQ and I both agree that it's somewhat unlikely

00:26:59that Boston is going to rip off another 64-win season

00:27:02and that there's a reasonable chance

00:27:04that they will not be the one seed

00:27:05with a bullet heading into next year.

00:27:08Some of the teams that might be taking the one seed

00:27:11from the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference

00:27:14will be playing against them,

00:27:15obviously on opening ring night for the Boston Celtics.

00:27:19They'll be welcoming the New York Knickerbockers

00:27:21at the Garden, a much ballyhooed team

00:27:24that has very explicitly built themselves

00:27:27to beat the Celtics specifically.

00:27:29We will see how that looks.

00:27:32Then later that month, or rather simply next week,

00:27:36they take on the Milwaukee Bucks

00:27:38with some revamped roster pieces here and there.

00:27:42Of course, much has been made about Jason Tatum

00:27:45and Steve Kerr's relationship from the Olympics.

00:27:48And whatever that looks like,

00:27:50we will have two confrontations

00:27:53with the Golden State Warriors,

00:27:54including one on November 6th,

00:27:56to see what that looks like.

00:27:58They will, of course, be playing the Minnesota Timberwolves

00:28:01the 24th of November,

00:28:03another hot team with some young talent,

00:28:06some vet talent and high expectations.

00:28:09A couple other highlights,

00:28:10we've got the possible return of Marcus Smart

00:28:14in a playing role.

00:28:15Obviously, the Memphis Grizzlies

00:28:17in the Celtics played last year,

00:28:19but Marcus Smart was not available to go in those games.

00:28:23He could be back at the beginning of December,

00:28:25on the 7th.

00:28:26Christmas Day, they will be taking on

00:28:28the Philadelphia 76ers at TD Garden.

00:28:31Philly, one of those teams

00:28:32that might be gunning for that top seed.

00:28:35And then you mentioned the Oklahoma City Thunder

00:28:38in the beginning of January,

00:28:41really throughout January.

00:28:42Boston's got some serious road tilts

00:28:44with OKC, Denver, and the Los Angeles Lakers throughout.

00:28:50And then briefly, we kind of mentioned

00:28:52that the second half of the schedule gets a lot tougher.

00:28:55March, in particular, is a bear for Boston.

00:28:58Starting with Denver and then Philly

00:29:01and then Oklahoma City,

00:29:02all within the span of two weeks.

00:29:04And then April, they will play Phoenix

00:29:06and they'll have their rematch with the Knicks

00:29:09on April 8th before ending things

00:29:11with a back-to-back with the Charlotte Hornets.

00:29:14So those are some major games.

00:29:16Any particular ones that you are looking forward to

00:29:20the most, Howard, of that slate?

00:29:23I mean, it's the obvious things, right?

00:29:25Knicks and Sixers, I feel like,

00:29:27are the two strongest challengers to them.

00:29:30Although, I do think the Bucs are going

00:29:33to get back into this thing.

00:29:34The Bucs, I think, quietly had a pretty solid offseason

00:29:37for a team that had very little to work with.

00:29:39And they just have to get healthy.

00:29:43Giannis just has to stay healthy in the playoffs.

00:29:47There's a bunch of other considerations for the Bucs.

00:29:52How much of a difference will it make

00:29:53to have Doc from day one instead of...

00:29:55They had three coaches in the span of eight months

00:29:57or something from Bunholzer to Adrian Griffin to Doc.

00:30:02So not having to screw up your coaching hire

00:30:05and then make up for it in the middle of the season.

00:30:07Having Doc from day one, Lillard and Giannis

00:30:11having a full season of their belts together,

00:30:14some decent pickups over the summer,

00:30:16including Gary Trent Jr.

00:30:18I think the Bucs will be heard from in all this

00:30:20and we're probably all going to be sleeping on them

00:30:21because we're all fascinated by what it looks like

00:30:25with Paul George in Philly

00:30:26and Mikael Bridges with New York.

00:30:29So I think it's a four-way race.

00:30:31I don't know how you guys feel.

00:30:33I don't think it's anybody beyond that.

00:30:35I'm not expecting Cleveland or Indianapolis

00:30:37or Orlando or somebody to jump into the fray there.

00:30:41I guess it's possible.

00:30:46Keeping my eye on the magic a little bit.

00:30:47That's all I'm going to say on that.

00:30:49So let's get more specific.

00:30:50Howard, we know you're going to be watching Rick Knight.

00:30:54We know you're going to be watching the Celtics

00:30:55on Christmas day.

00:30:56Those feel like no brainers,

00:30:58barring some sort of thing getting in the way

00:31:02that can't be helped.

00:31:05What's the game that you're, Howard Beck,

00:31:07you're saying, I have to catch the Celtics playing this team.

00:31:11I know that I want to prioritize that

00:31:13whenever that happens.

00:31:18It's just all the obvious ones, right?

00:31:20Because they might end up in the finals again

00:31:23against the Thunder this time.

00:31:26I think we're all curious how that looks.

00:31:30It could be Minnesota.

00:31:31We'll be curious how that looks.

00:31:32The Mavericks had a pretty good offseason.

00:31:34And initially, the second the finals ended,

00:31:38I thought, well, that was fun while it lasted for Dallas.

00:31:42I don't know that we're going to see them on the stage

00:31:44again anytime soon.

00:31:45Just because the West is that good.

00:31:46It wasn't really a knock on Dallas.

00:31:47But nobody expected them to be in the finals

00:31:50in the first place for some good reasons.

00:31:52And I think they had some holes.

00:31:55They had a decent offseason.

00:31:57They might make it back.

00:31:59They might.

00:32:01But there's at least five teams in the West that might.

00:32:04So I'm curious with the Celtics in each of those.

00:32:09I guess the one that still, to me,

00:32:10is the most fascinating, though, is just Philly.

00:32:12It's going to come back to Philly.

00:32:14And I think, if anything, the fact

00:32:16that we have to wait all the way until Christmas Day

00:32:18to see the Sixers-Celtics, if you want to quibble

00:32:22with the schedule.

00:32:23And I don't.

00:32:23I don't care.

00:32:25But yeah, maybe I wanted to see it a little sooner

00:32:27because I am curious.

00:32:30Hopefully, everybody's healthy on both sides

00:32:32when they meet up in December.

00:32:34Maybe that's the benefit of this.

00:32:35Maybe Porzingis is back by then.

00:32:37Hopefully, Embiid and Paul George

00:32:38haven't gotten hurt before then on the Sixers side.

00:32:41I want to see these two teams at full strength

00:32:43because we are long past the days or the era

00:32:49of the super team in the NBA.

00:32:51And I know that people are going to immediately say,

00:32:54oh, what about the Suns?

00:32:55What about this?

00:32:56I have a specific definition for this.

00:32:58We don't need to go down that rabbit hole.

00:32:59But we had an era, starting with the Celtics

00:33:03of Garnett, Allen, and Pierce, all the way

00:33:06through about 2019 and the Warriors deteriorating

00:33:11before our eyes in the finals.

00:33:14That was the super team era, where

00:33:15teams were stacking up three or four all-stars,

00:33:18three or four guys on max contracts.

00:33:20That almost can't happen anymore,

00:33:21and the Sixers are an anomaly in this regard

00:33:24because Tyrese Maxey hadn't signed the extension off

00:33:26of his rookie deal yet, and the Sixers

00:33:28were in a position to just let their entire roster,

00:33:30other than Embiid, expire so that they

00:33:33could go get Paul George.

00:33:34This is really, really, really hard

00:33:36to do now in today's NBA, folks.

00:33:38We're just not going to see this very often,

00:33:39where you have three guys who are all NBA caliber,

00:33:43and the Sixers have it.

00:33:46The Celtics, their response to that

00:33:49would simply be, well, we've got two all-NBA caliber guys,

00:33:52one of whom has been a perennial MVP candidate,

00:33:55and a bunch of other guys who, at various times

00:33:57in their careers, have either been all-stars or all-NBA.

00:34:01But again, it doesn't fit the model of the super team

00:34:03as I would define it, like when the Warriors had a super team

00:34:07or the Heatles, that kind of model.

00:34:12So I'm really curious to see how it works.

00:34:16Part of this depends on Paul George's health

00:34:18at this age.

00:34:19He's in his mid-30s now.

00:34:21Part of this depends on Embiid staying healthy.

00:34:24But in Embiid, Paul George rapidly

00:34:27improving Tyrese Maxey with good supporting players

00:34:32is probably as big a threat as you're

00:34:35going to see to the Celtics.

00:34:37And again, that's not dismissing the possibility

00:34:38of the Bucks or the Knicks knocking them out.

00:34:41But those teams, I think, have more question marks.

00:34:44Maybe not more question marks.

00:34:45They have question marks.

00:34:46And I don't know.

00:34:49There's something intriguing about the way

00:34:51Philly's three stars fit together, right?

00:34:54They're not overlapping.

00:34:55They're as close as you can get in some ways,

00:34:58not in terms of skill sets, but in terms

00:35:00of complementary aspects where they just

00:35:05fit together without overlap as that Celtics team

00:35:08with Garnett, Allen, Pierce.

00:35:09Because the mesh was easy in some ways.

00:35:15And I think that that's what the Sixers have

00:35:16with these three guys.

00:35:17There's nothing quite like a summer night

00:35:19at Fenway with a hot dog in hand.

00:35:21And luckily, catching a game this season

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00:36:20JQ, matchup you're looking forward to the most

00:36:23of any of the teams.

00:36:24You can't say Christmas Day and you can't say Ring Knight.

00:36:29Oh, you had to gut me right there.

00:36:32Yeah.

00:36:32Listen, I'm going to say opening night anyway,

00:36:34but it didn't matter to me if it's opening night.

00:36:37It could be another night.

00:36:38It could be a matchup where the Knicks are playing

00:36:40the Celtics on another night.

00:36:42Both of you guys blatantly violating the rules I laid out.

00:36:46That's fine.

00:36:46I'm sorry.

00:36:48It's just because this is a team that was built,

00:36:52as Howard has mentioned, to defeat the Celtics.

00:36:54And it is a team that is trying to really lean

00:36:57into this new model of team building, right?

00:37:00So I want to see how it works.

00:37:03More so than Bing Bong or Ring Knight

00:37:06or any of the other stuff.

00:37:07I just want to see how it works

00:37:09because this is not a team that is designed

00:37:12to win in the previous era.

00:37:15So the Celtics kind of still are one of those teams

00:37:19based on how they kind of did similar to what Phoenix did

00:37:23in terms of ignoring the second apron stuff

00:37:25until it was unignorable.

00:37:27So they kind of have one of these old style super teams,

00:37:31but this team is also designed to specifically pick

00:37:36at the weaknesses and strengths of the Celtics organization.

00:37:39So for me, it's going to be that.

00:37:43We could always save the Lakers.

00:37:45You know, I'm always up to see the Lakers.

00:37:48I am not super convinced that it's going to be as impactful

00:37:51of a meeting this particular season,

00:37:52but you know, it'd be nice to rub 18

00:37:54in their faces a little bit.

00:37:56For me, there was one team that I thought played

00:38:00the Boston Celtics as well as anybody last year

00:38:03that I think remains almost completely intact

00:38:07from its previous situation.

00:38:09I am so fascinated to see

00:38:11what the Minnesota Timberwolves look like this year

00:38:13and specifically how they match up against Boston.

00:38:16To me, they're one of maybe two or three West teams

00:38:19that I could see making a serious finals run.

00:38:22And that matchup, both of those games went to overtime.

00:38:26They were extremely competitive back and forth affairs.

00:38:30Both of the rosters present some real challenges

00:38:33to each other respectively.

00:38:35And I feel like just watching those games in particular,

00:38:38I was really impressed at the level of basketball

00:38:42being played by both teams.

00:38:43So that one is very much circled for me.

00:38:47I have a question for you guys,

00:38:49because you had it in the show notes

00:38:50and you touched on it briefly,

00:38:51although I think you were saying it's,

00:38:53you know, somewhat, you know, cheekily, I guess.

00:38:59Is Tatum versus Kerr really a thing?

00:39:02Like for you guys individually as Celtics fans

00:39:04and for the Celtics fans,

00:39:05like, is this actually,

00:39:07like how much momentum is still behind this Tatum?

00:39:10I'm back to NBA fan grievance, Twitter here.

00:39:13But like, is this still animating people?

00:39:16Do people actually care?

00:39:17I think the Tatum thing, sorry,

00:39:20the Tatum thing is not real.

00:39:23The Jalen Brown thing is very much real.

00:39:26And I am curious to know.

00:39:28Is that more with Steve Kerr or Grant Hill?

00:39:30Oh no, it's totally Grant Hill.

00:39:32Yeah, no.

00:39:33But I mean, if there is any Team USA beef,

00:39:36it's the Brown stuff.

00:39:37As far as I could tell,

00:39:38Tatum was mortified by his mom going on social media

00:39:42and pleading his case along with Dick Vitale

00:39:45and literally everyone else.

00:39:47Yeah.

00:39:47I think Celtics fans are pretty mad at Steve Kerr,

00:39:50myself included.

00:39:51But aside from that,

00:39:52I don't think Tatum and Steve Kerr have any notable beef.

00:39:55I could see there being a world

00:39:57in which even if there is not a meaningful beef,

00:40:01the Jays could still use their respective Olympic snubs,

00:40:05so to speak, as a motivating factor specifically against...

00:40:10I mean, they've always wanted to beat the Warriors

00:40:12ever since the Warriors beat them in the finals.

00:40:14So I don't think they're going to be short on motivation

00:40:17when they go to Golden State, let's put it that way.

00:40:18No, and I'll never dismiss the fact that in the NBA,

00:40:23I'm sure this exists in the other professional sports too,

00:40:24but in the NBA, the ability to manufacture motivation,

00:40:29and I don't even mean...

00:40:30By manufacture, I don't even necessarily mean

00:40:32that it has to somehow be completely concocted,

00:40:37although sometimes it is.

00:40:39Just the fact that taking any thread,

00:40:42any snub, real or perceived,

00:40:45any grievance whatsoever or revenge,

00:40:49all these things,

00:40:50any emotion that you can bring to bear,

00:40:52it's a long season.

00:40:53And it's even longer when you're expecting to play into June.

00:40:56And so I will never dismiss from a psychological standpoint,

00:40:59the fact that having that to grab onto,

00:41:01you mentioned Mazul earlier,

00:41:02he's going to throw everything up on the board,

00:41:05like, cool, fine.

00:41:06That's great.

00:41:06You do what you have to do,

00:41:08even when you know damn well,

00:41:09this stuff actually doesn't mean that much in a lot of cases.

00:41:13Some means more than others, right?

00:41:14Like wanting to beat the Warriors,

00:41:16if you were to see,

00:41:17especially if you saw them in the finals again,

00:41:19yeah, like obviously the championship's at stake

00:41:21and you want to beat the team that denied you a championship.

00:41:24But, you know,

00:41:25that Kerr didn't play Tatum in a couple of games

00:41:28and he wasn't, seriously?

00:41:30I mean, it was in the Olympics.

00:41:32It's a whole different thing.

00:41:34By the way, just for the record

00:41:35and at the risk of pissing off everybody

00:41:37listening to this podcast,

00:41:38I think the whole story was completely overblown.

00:41:40And it's silly.

00:41:43To quote Herm Edwards,

00:41:45you play to win the games.

00:41:47You play to win the championship.

00:41:48You play to win the gold medal in this case.

00:41:50They won the gold medal.

00:41:51If he had not played Tatum that much and they lost,

00:41:56then go to town.

00:41:57But the point was to create a rotation,

00:42:02a lineup and adjust as you go along

00:42:04in a very short tournament

00:42:06in a way that will get you to the gold.

00:42:09They succeeded.

00:42:10Tatum was behind a whole slew of hall of famers,

00:42:14future hall of famers,

00:42:15including at his own position,

00:42:17LeBron James and Kevin Durant.

00:42:19He's not better than those guys, I'm sorry to say.

00:42:22Even at this age, he's just not.

00:42:24And especially in a short tournament

00:42:26where those guys had plenty of rest days

00:42:27and these are only 40 minute games.

00:42:29And that, by the way, 40 minute games,

00:42:31there was fewer minutes.

00:42:31I just think this whole thing was so overwrought.

00:42:34It was such a 2024 story and controversy.

00:42:39I don't think we would have had this same discussion

00:42:4315 years ago, 20 years ago.

00:42:45It just wouldn't have been the case.

00:42:46It's because everything now

00:42:48is in service of debate and grievance.

00:42:50And I just think this one really spun out of control.

00:42:54That's just my view of it.

00:42:56Jason Tatum, I'm sure, is thrilled to have a gold medal

00:42:59that he obviously contributed to.

00:43:01He's a hall of famer.

00:43:03He's like, when you don't do a class project,

00:43:07you still get an A.

00:43:09I do think that there's something there

00:43:11that you can pick at,

00:43:12but it has a lot less to do with the Celtics,

00:43:14a lot more to do with the structure of Team USA.

00:43:16And this is the Team USA podcast, so.

00:43:20Yeah. I mean, I think the only thing

00:43:21that I would throw out there is that

00:43:24I don't really buy the idea

00:43:26that you can't play them against Serbia

00:43:27for whatever reason.

00:43:28Feels like, to me, there were opportunities to do that.

00:43:33But did it matter?

00:43:35Why does it matter?

00:43:37Why does it matter?

00:43:38I'm just saying.

00:43:39I think I'm just not sure I buy that.

00:43:41I'm not trying to bully you.

00:43:44The whole time I was watching this

00:43:46and listening to all this stuff

00:43:47and watching it on Twitter,

00:43:47I'm like, are people really this mad about it?

00:43:50They're going to win the fucking gold medal.

00:43:51Why do you care whether Tatum played 10 minutes,

00:43:5412 or zero in a given game?

00:43:56It's very strange to me.

00:43:58Everything is about, again,

00:43:59it's because everything is now about disrespect

00:44:03and all these other things that don't really matter.

00:44:05The point is to win.

00:44:06They won.

00:44:07He contributed.

00:44:08They did win.

00:44:09And that is not an unfamiliar thing

00:44:11for Boston Celtics fans, the idea of winning.

00:44:15And so we're going to put a pin in that,

00:44:18but we will move on very briefly.

00:44:21Just want to talk about.

00:44:22So the other big story for Boston,

00:44:24because there really was not that many big stories

00:44:26for Boston this off-season.

00:44:27Probably the biggest one is that there is some recent developments

00:44:32with regard to Witt Gruesbeck

00:44:34and the Celtics ownership group

00:44:36potentially changing hands and selling the team.

00:44:38We've heard rumors of John Henry, which are horrifying.

00:44:43And we've heard rumors of possibly Steve Pagliuca

00:44:47getting a group together.

00:44:48People are throwing out Elon Musk,

00:44:50which I would not be thrilled with.

00:44:52And a bunch of other things as far as possible Celtics buyers.

00:44:58Let's just do this really quickly

00:44:59because we've talked about this a little bit before.

00:45:03Howard, what's your kind of take on this ownership situation?

00:45:06Is it going to affect the Celtics championship odds for next year?

00:45:11And what do you think is going to potentially happen here with ownership?

00:45:16It's a really hard one to get your head around in a lot of ways.

00:45:20Not least of which is because they want to do this as a phase-in

00:45:24kind of like what Minnesota has done badly.

00:45:30If the league allows it, you would hope it's not just a smoother transition,

00:45:35but one with a little bit more certainty built into it.

00:45:38Look, Wick-Grosbeck is not Glenn Taylor,

00:45:41so they're already ahead of the game.

00:45:43I think about Celtics fan, the first thing I'm thinking

00:45:45is just that Wick-Grosbeck has been one of the best owners in the league.

00:45:50And I don't mean that just because they've won a couple championships.

00:45:52Like even if they hadn't won those,

00:45:53I just think his stewardship has been excellent.

00:45:58All you can ask is that the owner of the team that you're rooting for

00:46:02be willing to spend, make more good decisions than not.

00:46:05You're never going to be perfect.

00:46:07Hire the right people, have some stability.

00:46:10And they have, they've done all these things, right?

00:46:12Like Danny Ainge was the GM for a hundred years.

00:46:15When they handed it off to Brad Stevens, I was the first to say,

00:46:19like, I wasn't sure that was the greatest idea in the world.

00:46:23Like Brad Stevens, phenomenal coach,

00:46:25but like coaching and GMing are way different jobs.

00:46:28He's been amazing.

00:46:30So again, they've made good decisions more often than not.

00:46:32So I think his ownership tenure has been fantastic.

00:46:36And so I think the first thing that hits me

00:46:39on behalf of Celtics fans out there would be like,

00:46:41I would worry that the next owner is not going to be as good or as committed,

00:46:44as smart about decision-making,

00:46:46as generous with the checkbook, paying luxury tax, all that stuff.

00:46:51We won't know until we get there, right?

00:46:53We won't know until we find out who they have sold to.

00:46:57And when we hear from that person or that group.

00:46:59So I think it's the uncertainty would be a little bit unsettling,

00:47:02but, you know, and this is one of the premier franchises in professional sports.

00:47:07So I think the league certainly is going to be very attentive to this process.

00:47:14And of course the other owners all have to vote on the sale once that's in place.

00:47:21So, yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty much it.

00:47:27I think that's pretty much it.

00:47:29Like there's just a lot of unknown.

00:47:31And I think the good news for the Celtics is nothing's happening tomorrow.

00:47:36You know, nothing's even happening probably

00:47:38in terms of a handoff for a couple of years here.

00:47:41And so, you know, I don't think you have to worry about

00:47:45suddenly somebody coming in and saying,

00:47:47oh, we don't want to pay the luxury tax.

00:47:48We don't want to be at the second apron.

00:47:50Let's start shedding pieces.

00:47:53That obviously would be rough.

00:47:56So speaking of unknowns really quickly,

00:47:58and then we'll kind of start wrapping things up here.

00:48:01Speaking of unknowns, the Boston Celtics do have one more unknown

00:48:05in the form of their roster,

00:48:06in that there is still a 15th roster spot open for the team at this moment.

00:48:11Brad Stevens has indicated that he might want to leave it open,

00:48:16but you never know.

00:48:16These things can change in a heartbeat.

00:48:19I guess I'm curious.

00:48:21We'll go Howard first, then Justin.

00:48:23Howard, what should the Boston Celtics do with this roster spot?

00:48:28Yeah, I'll just leave it at that.

00:48:30I'm old enough to remember a time,

00:48:32because I was covering the league then,

00:48:34when NBA rosters were only 12 players,

00:48:37and then you had an injured list in which you would

00:48:39manufacture injuries for guys so that you could keep them around,

00:48:42because otherwise, if you didn't have an injury,

00:48:43you had to let them go.

00:48:45Right.

00:48:45So the 15-man roster is a massive luxury, historically speaking,

00:48:51which is to say that it doesn't matter.

00:48:54Whoever they can sign to that 15th spot isn't going to matter.

00:48:57If that guy is still out there right now,

00:49:00he's not good enough to materially affect your season, most likely.

00:49:04So yeah, you leave it open for the optionality,

00:49:06not just to save cost,

00:49:08which obviously is going to be an issue too,

00:49:10because there's tax issues to deal with.

00:49:13But maybe you're in a position later to do a one-for-two trade,

00:49:16and you need the extra spot for that.

00:49:18Maybe somebody shakes loose who you've had your eye on,

00:49:22who you do think you could either develop,

00:49:23or somebody gets waived in February or something,

00:49:30whatever it may be.

00:49:32Can't even do that anymore.

00:49:33What's that?

00:49:34Stupid new second apron.

00:49:36Oh, yeah, right.

00:49:37Exactly.

00:49:39But having the optionality of just having that spot open,

00:49:43I think, makes a lot of sense.

00:49:46I haven't looked at the list of still-available free agents

00:49:48here on August 16th,

00:49:50but I don't imagine there's anybody who's going to make the rotation

00:49:54unless there's a whole series of injuries.

00:49:56That's probably fair.

00:49:58JQ, any additional thoughts on the last roster spot here?

00:50:02Well, considering how much you're going to be paying in tax now moving forward,

00:50:05they also have other reasons to leave that open.

00:50:08And let's just say that one of the new two-way guys,

00:50:11or the older two guys who are still with us,

00:50:14one of them starts to pop.

00:50:16Be nice to have something to do with them, right?

00:50:18If you want to include them,

00:50:19if you have an injury and one of them has to come in,

00:50:22as Howard noted, there's a whole host of situations

00:50:25where having that spot open is probably more useful than not.

00:50:28I mean, to O'Shea Brissett's point,

00:50:30he probably would like to come back to the Celtics.

00:50:33If he does come back to the Celtics,

00:50:34he's probably not getting any more time than he did last season,

00:50:37which was not enough for him.

00:50:39And that in itself is a problem.

00:50:41That creates a source of friction where you don't want friction.

00:50:44So for my eyes, the whole O'Shea Brissett thing,

00:50:48he's going to find a home somewhere.

00:50:49And if it's not in the NBA,

00:50:50he'll be playing a lot more minutes

00:50:52for probably more money in another league.

00:50:55So yeah, let's keep it open and see what happens.

00:50:58The flexibility and the savings,

00:50:59I think will be important down the road,

00:51:01no matter who ends up buying this team.

00:51:02So let's get into the down the road part,

00:51:05because we started this episode off

00:51:07talking about what we thought about this team

00:51:10heading into this past season when Celtics won the NBA title.

00:51:14All right, Howard, it's time.

00:51:15We're putting you on the spot.

00:51:16It's way too early.

00:51:18Rosters has only sort of settled.

00:51:19The schedule only just came out.

00:51:21We haven't even seen what anybody looks like in preseason.

00:51:23All this being said,

00:51:25how many wins and roughly what seed

00:51:28are we looking at for the Boston Celtics

00:51:30heading into next year?

00:51:32I think they're going to drop below 60

00:51:34and maybe like 58,

00:51:35and they'll be number one anyway.

00:51:37Because of the teams in the East

00:51:40that I think are likely to be the most impressive,

00:51:45the strongest, whatever adjectives you want to use,

00:51:50I don't have a ton of confidence

00:51:51that any of them are 60-win teams either, right?

00:51:54Philly at some point is going to lose Embiid

00:51:55for a stretch of games

00:51:56and maybe Paul George for a stretch of games.

00:51:58It's just the reality.

00:52:02The Bucs at some point are going to lose Chris Middleton

00:52:04for a stretch of games, unfortunately,

00:52:05because it happens every season

00:52:07and it could happen with Dame Lillard as well.

00:52:10Brooke Lopez, they've just got a lot of age

00:52:12and injury history concerns in Milwaukee.

00:52:16And then the Knicks,

00:52:20I'm not sure how to interpret the Knicks yet

00:52:23because Mikael Bridges is a really good player

00:52:26and a great pickup for all the obvious reasons.

00:52:28His versatility, his dispositional mesh with the team,

00:52:33the Villanova connections, all that stuff, right?

00:52:35All the good vibes, it's great.

00:52:37Knicks vibes are immaculate.

00:52:38But they lost a player who, heading into last season,

00:52:43you would have thought was maybe

00:52:44their fifth most important guy

00:52:46and was arguably one of the most important

00:52:50in Isaiah Hartenstein.

00:52:52And Mitchell Robinson, who's their other center,

00:52:56he's very good.

00:52:58He's not as impactful as Hartenstein was

00:53:00and he's always hurt.

00:53:01And we're taping this on August 16th.

00:53:04There is two months to go until,

00:53:07roughly until opening night,

00:53:09month and a half until training camps open.

00:53:11Maybe the Knicks are gonna find some other deal to make

00:53:13that brings in another center.

00:53:15But as of right now,

00:53:16basically after Mitchell Robinson,

00:53:18everybody on the roster,

00:53:19I think like Jericho Sims is 6'10",

00:53:21everybody else is 6'8 and under.

00:53:23So the Knicks have some size issues.

00:53:24And Hartenstein, the number,

00:53:26I was at a lot of the,

00:53:27because I'm based in New York,

00:53:28I went to a lot of the Knicks home games

00:53:29against Philly and Indiana.

00:53:32The number of possessions

00:53:33that Hartenstein kept alive,

00:53:35it felt like all of them, frankly.

00:53:38He was massive for them,

00:53:40specifically when it came to offensive rebounding.

00:53:43So I don't know,

00:53:45does what Mikhail Bridges adds

00:53:47make up enough for what they've lost in Hartenstein?

00:53:49Because these are completely different skill sets.

00:53:54But sometimes you can reformat

00:53:56and be just as good or even better

00:53:59with a different array of players

00:54:01and shapes and sizes.

00:54:03I just don't know.

00:54:04I honestly just don't know.

00:54:07I think Bridges brings a lot to the table for them.

00:54:09And it wasn't a one-for-one trade-off, right?

00:54:10Like they lost Hartenstein

00:54:11because of other cap rules

00:54:12that prevented them from spending as much on him

00:54:14or giving him as much as the Thunder could.

00:54:17I just think they're gonna miss him.

00:54:19I think they're gonna miss him a lot.

00:54:21And it tamps down my expectations

00:54:23just slightly for the Knicks.

00:54:24On the other hand, look,

00:54:25all they have to do is get healthy, right?

00:54:27A full season of Randall and Anobi,

00:54:29Brunson and the rest,

00:54:31and they're super deep.

00:54:33They're really good.

00:54:36I think the Celtics, they should worry them.

00:54:38They absolutely should worry them,

00:54:40especially because of the array

00:54:41of perimeter defenders they have

00:54:44who can at least try to slow down Tatum and Brown.

00:54:48But do I think they're gonna win 60-plus games?

00:54:50I think that part is probably unlikely.

00:54:52I will say, no coach in history values

00:54:56regular season games as much as Tom Thibodeau.

00:54:59That's fair.

00:55:00So he might actually wanna go for 62, 63.

00:55:03Who knows?

00:55:05It could happen.

00:55:05But my best guess is,

00:55:06that was a very long-winded answer.

00:55:08My best guess is,

00:55:09Celtics are still number one

00:55:10despite winning six fewer games.

00:55:14JQ, what do you think?

00:55:15How many wins?

00:55:16What seed?

00:55:1759 wins.

00:55:19Second seed, unless,

00:55:21and we kind of danced around this earlier in the show,

00:55:24Al Horford is gonna be responsible

00:55:26for a lot of the high-level play minutes.

00:55:29If Al Horford, God forbid,

00:55:31knock on anything vaguely resembling wood,

00:55:34gets a high ankle sprain

00:55:35and has to miss like six weeks,

00:55:37there could be a lot more losses

00:55:38headed in Boston's way.

00:55:40Just because the rest of the bigs

00:55:42are not very proven.

00:55:43I love them all,

00:55:44but there's a good amount of risk in this front court

00:55:48and not a lot of tools to fix it.

00:55:49So yeah, it could be worse than that.

00:55:53Considerably, possibly even like third or fourth seed,

00:55:56but for now, 59 wins, second seed.

00:56:00Word.

00:56:00All right, last couple of questions,

00:56:02then we're out of here.

00:56:03I've got, let's see,

00:56:05I think we're gonna just do two

00:56:07and then we're gonna get started wrapping things up.

00:56:10Howard, much has been talked about

00:56:13the Boston Celtics heading into this season

00:56:15as far as possible awards might be concerned.

00:56:19What do you think,

00:56:20what award possibilities are we looking at

00:56:22for this team heading into next year?

00:56:25It might be none.

00:56:27And it doesn't matter

00:56:29because the championship is the only thing that matters.

00:56:32I don't think Tatum is leapfrogging

00:56:33all those guys to win MVP.

00:56:36First, he has to leapfrog Jalen Brown.

00:56:41Did I just say that?

00:56:44I mean, it is kind of a funny ring.

00:56:46I mean, look, it happened, right?

00:56:48Like Jalen Brown won conference finals MVP

00:56:51and finals MVP.

00:56:52Like it's, anyway, I don't think,

00:56:54I don't think any of the Celtics are winning MVP.

00:56:57If Missoula wins coach of the year,

00:57:00it'll be because a bunch of dudes got hurt

00:57:03and they won 60 games anyway.

00:57:05So I don't think you want that scenario.

00:57:08To win coach of the year,

00:57:09you either have to have just

00:57:11an absolutely outstanding record

00:57:12or it's usually the overachieving team,

00:57:16their coach gets it

00:57:18or somebody who surprised us.

00:57:20And I just don't think the Celtics

00:57:21can surprise us now.

00:57:22So the possibility of coach of the year

00:57:24is probably out the window.

00:57:25Rookie of the year is out the window.

00:57:26Defensive player of the year

00:57:27is not probably on the table.

00:57:32Six man, maybe, but I don't know.

00:57:35What do you guys think?

00:57:36I just, like the all NBA stuff is what it is, right?

00:57:38Like Brown and Tatum are going to be

00:57:39in the running every year.

00:57:42But I don't, I think you meant

00:57:44the other awards, right?

00:57:45The of the year awards.

00:57:47I don't think that there are,

00:57:49for the reasons you noted

00:57:51and also just like players

00:57:52who could theoretically have the right

00:57:54skill sets and playing time

00:57:56to win the awards

00:57:56or in the wrong stage of their careers

00:57:59or will not be coming off the bench enough.

00:58:01So really the only thing that I want to see

00:58:04as far as major awards

00:58:05is Jason Tatum not winning MVP

00:58:08because if he wins MVP,

00:58:09then that means that a lot of the things

00:58:11that could motivate him into playing

00:58:13in a way that is not going to win

00:58:15the Celtics title,

00:58:16i.e. very individual and not team oriented

00:58:18as he had last season will be in play.

00:58:22So I don't, I think,

00:58:23I think there's a lot of teams in the East

00:58:25that really don't want to see their star

00:58:28or biggest star player become MVP.

00:58:31Like Joel Embiid, don't try to win MVP.

00:58:34Save your legs.

00:58:35Get to the playoffs healthy.

00:58:36I mean, as a Celtics fan, don't.

00:58:38But you know what I mean?

00:58:40I'm going to go off the wall here.

00:58:43Wild speculation.

00:58:45Guys, we saw some,

00:58:47we've seen some changes in the way

00:58:49that this award has been done

00:58:50in previous years,

00:58:51particularly in the last couple.

00:58:54Derek White for Defensive Player of the Year.

00:58:57Why not?

00:58:58Okay.

00:58:58Marcus Smart 2.0.

00:59:00Sure.

00:59:01Not quite so long of a gap

00:59:02between a guard winning it his last time.

00:59:06I'm just saying that guy's likely.

00:59:08Anyway.

00:59:09All right.

00:59:09He's got to beat out Wemby.

00:59:10That's the problem.

00:59:11He does have to beat out Wemby

00:59:12and Wemby is very, very good.

00:59:15All I want to do is throw some recognition

00:59:17for my man, Derek.

00:59:18I think it's a good call.

00:59:19I like that.

00:59:21All right.

00:59:21Last question,

00:59:22and then we'll get you out of here.

00:59:23The Boston Celtics are the defending NBA champions.

00:59:27They have, I think,

00:59:28largely by most metrics,

00:59:30had a successful offseason

00:59:32in that they brought back

00:59:33basically everybody who won the NBA title.

00:59:36But what's the biggest obstacle

00:59:38standing in their way

00:59:39between being the NBA champions now

00:59:42and being the NBA champions

00:59:44this time next year?

00:59:45Howard Beck, you're up first.

00:59:47It's always a lot harder

00:59:49to win the second one, right?

00:59:51We don't see repeat champions

00:59:52very much anymore.

00:59:54And every team that's ever repeated

00:59:56will tell you that the second one

00:59:57was way harder.

00:59:58And it's so many things

01:00:00that go into it, right?

01:00:01There's just the health

01:00:03and fatigue aspects of this.

01:00:04You've played a lot more games

01:00:06and a lot more minutes.

01:00:08Everybody's gunning for you.

01:00:09There's all that aspects of it.

01:00:11There is a motivation aspect too.

01:00:12When the Warriors won 73 games,

01:00:14and I know, oh,

01:00:16they blew the three to two

01:00:17or three to one lead and blah, blah, blah.

01:00:18They won 73 games,

01:00:20the most in NBA history

01:00:22after winning a championship.

01:00:24Improving your win total at all

01:00:25after winning a championship,

01:00:26I think is probably fairly rare.

01:00:30Winning a lot more games

01:00:31is even more rare.

01:00:32And winning the most games

01:00:33in NBA history,

01:00:35it's one of the most impressive things

01:00:36I've seen, right?

01:00:37I know it's not the same thing

01:00:38as winning three in a row.

01:00:39It's not the same thing

01:00:40as a championship itself.

01:00:41But winning 73 games

01:00:42because you have to decide

01:00:44every single night

01:00:45in this long ass season,

01:00:47while you still are trying

01:00:48to get to June again,

01:00:50this game is just as important

01:00:51as all the rest.

01:00:52That's a really,

01:00:53and we talked about this earlier

01:00:54about the psychology of competition.

01:00:57To will yourself

01:00:59and convince yourself

01:01:00to put forth that amount of energy

01:01:03and concentration and effort

01:01:04every single game is hard.

01:01:07And so it's only natural.

01:01:09And we saw it with the Nuggets

01:01:10this past season, right?

01:01:12It's only natural.

01:01:13There's got to be a little bit

01:01:14of a letdown,

01:01:14a little bit of a hangover,

01:01:15whatever you want to call it.

01:01:17And then in concert with that,

01:01:19there is sometimes an issue of

01:01:21do some players

01:01:22let it get in their heads

01:01:23that like I'm the reason.

01:01:24And so now I need more.

01:01:26And, you know,

01:01:28I know Celtics fans are tired

01:01:29of people pitting

01:01:31Taylor versus Brown and all this.

01:01:32And I'm not looking to do that.

01:01:33But I will just say,

01:01:35you know, these are still

01:01:36fairly young players

01:01:37who are still stretching out

01:01:39and spreading their wings.

01:01:40And it's not unheard of

01:01:43in this league.

01:01:45I covered Kobe Bryant

01:01:46and Shaquille O'Neal.

01:01:47It's not unheard of in this league

01:01:48for somebody to say, you know what?

01:01:50I just showed how much more I can do

01:01:51and I want to keep doing more

01:01:53and lose track at times

01:01:55of the bigger picture.

01:01:56I'm not saying it's going to happen.

01:01:57I'm not saying Brown versus Tatum.

01:01:58I'm just saying

01:02:00ego and individual goals

01:02:03do sometimes interfere with a team.

01:02:06It happens.

01:02:07I'm not predicting

01:02:08it's going to happen in this case.

01:02:09I'm not hoping it will happen.

01:02:10I'm not wishing it.

01:02:10I'm not anything.

01:02:12But if you ask the question

01:02:13about what things could hold them back

01:02:15or derail them,

01:02:16those are the theoretical possibilities.

01:02:18And that's all I'm putting it out there

01:02:20as a theoretical possibility.

01:02:21The health fatigue hangover stuff is real.

01:02:23That's just an every year thing

01:02:25for champions.

01:02:27And then on top of that,

01:02:28there's just the obvious,

01:02:29which is the rest of the league

01:02:30is getting better.

01:02:31You know, the Celtics,

01:02:32there was nowhere to go.

01:02:33There's nowhere to go

01:02:34except sideways or down, right?

01:02:36Like they were not going to improve

01:02:38materially the roster,

01:02:40but everybody else did.

01:02:41Like the Thunder got better.

01:02:43They added Hardenstein and Caruso,

01:02:44and plus they're a young team

01:02:45that's evolving.

01:02:47The Knicks got better

01:02:47and the Sixers got,

01:02:48I think the Knicks got better.

01:02:49The Sixers got better.

01:02:50The Pacers are young and improving.

01:02:53Dallas improved.

01:02:54Everybody else improved.

01:02:56So the other thing that gets in the way

01:02:57is just the fact that

01:02:58you have to,

01:03:00without having added anybody,

01:03:02somehow stay ahead of all the competition

01:03:04that all just spent the off-season

01:03:06building to try to take you down.

01:03:08JQ, what's the biggest obstacle?

01:03:11Luck.

01:03:13You have to be lucky to win a title,

01:03:15and they were very, very,

01:03:16very lucky last season

01:03:18in terms of health,

01:03:19in terms of draw,

01:03:20in terms of just about anything

01:03:21you could think of.

01:03:21There were very few things

01:03:23you could point to and say

01:03:24the Celtics were unlucky

01:03:25on their way to this title.

01:03:27It's actually taken on its own life

01:03:29in a very stupid narrative

01:03:31that tends to pop up.

01:03:32I mean, we were saying the same thing,

01:03:33not we particularly,

01:03:35but there were things said,

01:03:36for example, about the Lakers

01:03:38when they won their bubble title.

01:03:40There's always these narratives,

01:03:42but there's also a grain of truth

01:03:44in the fact that

01:03:44you just have to be really lucky,

01:03:46and maybe it's not their year.

01:03:48Maybe it is, but maybe it's not.

01:03:51They're not going to go 16-3 again, right?

01:03:54They're not going to face a team

01:03:55like the Pacers in the conference finals again.

01:03:57This time, they're going to get

01:03:58the Knicks or the Sixers or the Bucs,

01:04:00mostly.

01:04:02I think for me,

01:04:03the biggest thing standing

01:04:05between the Boston Celtics

01:04:06and the title is

01:04:07how are they going to make

01:04:09the vibe adjustment

01:04:10without Mike Gorman calling games?

01:04:12Because to me,

01:04:13that was actually an essential piece

01:04:14of their massive success last year.

01:04:17Shout out to the legend, Mike Gorman.

01:04:19Please enjoy retirement.

01:04:20Hope you don't come back.

01:04:22But it is going to be

01:04:23an interesting vibe shift.

01:04:24That's all I'm saying.

01:04:25Anyway, Howard Beck of The Ringer,

01:04:28thank you so much for coming on

01:04:30the Celtics Lab podcast today.

01:04:31Anything you want to plug

01:04:32before we get out of here?

01:04:34No, thanks.

01:04:35Appreciate it.

01:04:36Nothing specific.

01:04:38People can, of course,

01:04:38find me on the health site,

01:04:39Twitter at Howard Beck

01:04:42and all my written work

01:04:44at theringer.com.

01:04:45And the Real Ones pod

01:04:48is kind of intermittent

01:04:50at the moment

01:04:51until we get closer to October.

01:04:53But you can find me, of course,

01:04:54on the Real Ones podcast.

01:04:56We have an episode coming,

01:04:57I believe next Thursday,

01:04:59August 22nd.

01:05:01And yeah, find me there.

01:05:04But this has been great.

01:05:05Appreciate you guys having me back.

01:05:06Of course.

01:05:06Happy to have you.

01:05:07Dr. Quinn,

01:05:08where can we find your stuff?

01:05:10You can find it on Celtics Wire,

01:05:12which is probably where

01:05:13you came across this.

01:05:14If you were not already

01:05:16subscribed to it,

01:05:17got some big changes

01:05:18coming there pretty soon.

01:05:19That's what I was alluding to

01:05:20at the start of the show.

01:05:21Nothing bad,

01:05:23just different looking things.

01:05:25So keep an eye out for that.

01:05:27Fabulous.

01:05:28And listener,

01:05:29if you like the music

01:05:30that you heard at the top

01:05:31of this podcast,

01:05:32that's my band,

01:05:33Divine Sweater,

01:05:34playing our single 2x2,

01:05:36you can catch us on tour

01:05:39coming very soon,

01:05:40September onwards.

01:05:42If you like that song,

01:05:43you can follow us

01:05:44on Instagram, Spotify,

01:05:45Apple Music,

01:05:46wherever you like

01:05:47to listen to music

01:05:48and check all of those areas

01:05:50for various updates there.

01:05:51I'm Alex Goldberg.

01:05:52This is the Celtics Lab podcast.

01:05:54And this episode

01:05:55of the Celtics Lab podcast

01:05:56is brought to you by PrizePix,

01:05:58the exclusive fantasy basketball

01:05:59partner of the CLNS Media Network.

01:06:01Celtics Lab is also brought to you

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01:06:06And if you enjoyed this pod,

01:06:08please do check out

01:06:09How About Them Celtics,

01:06:10First to the Floor,

01:06:11many other New England sports

01:06:13podcasts available to you

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01:06:17Thanks for listening.

01:06:34Like you told me I should

01:06:36Why don't we cut to kind of life

Sizing up Bostons 2024-25 season and schedule w/ Howard Beck | Celtics Lab

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