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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News, also the co-host of the Down the Stretch
00:00:35Show with the legendary Dave Johnson on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:39I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, sidekick Lucy, fast asleep in the background.
00:00:45Zoe Kavon with First Racing and XBTV.
00:00:48I'm still at Keeneland.
00:00:49This is the longest sale ever.
00:00:52If you look over my shoulder, there's no dog, but right now we're Tuesday and they are on
00:00:57hit number 2491 that just got sold, so we're a little way over halfway through.
00:01:08Can you believe that?
00:01:09It is the biggest horse sale in the world.
00:01:12It is insane.
00:01:13Actually, we're going to come back to that subject a little later because Zoe is our
00:01:17resident expert on the Keeneland sale and she's going to tell you everything that's
00:01:21going on.
00:01:22Also, I want to remind you that this week and every week, we're proud to be brought
00:01:24to you by Keeneland and we always recognize the great racing and the great sales that
00:01:29they have.
00:01:30The story on the racetrack over the weekend, Charlie Applegate was only two for three.
00:01:35What's going on?
00:01:36He's in a slump, guys, but this is so remarkable what this trainer has done with his shippers
00:01:42coming in to North America.
00:01:44He ran three horses over the weekend, the Jockey Club Oaks at Belmont and Akron.
00:01:48He won with Eternal Hope.
00:01:49He was third in the Talma with Dazzling Star, but I thought the big story is what he did
00:01:54in the Woodbine Mile with Master of the Seas.
00:01:57A lot of stats to throw out there, but how about this?
00:02:00In his career, he is eight for 11 at Woodbine.
00:02:04All eight wins have come in grade one stakes.
00:02:08He just has this knack for knowing exactly which horses to bring and which horses to
00:02:13put them in.
00:02:14The thing that's remarkable about Master of the Seas, he was plan B, Randy.
00:02:17This was supposed to be Modern Games coming back to this race, winning, and then going
00:02:21on to the Breeders' Cup Mile.
00:02:23Modern Games got hurt and was retired in August.
00:02:26He brings in one off the bench, and it's Master of Seas.
00:02:29He wins, and he goes on now to the Breeders' Cup.
00:02:33Since 2021, the last three years, Appleby is 21 for 50 in the United States and Canada
00:02:40combined.
00:02:41That's 42% winners.
00:02:43Just remarkable what he's done and continues to do.
00:02:46It's absolutely amazing.
00:02:48The entire Godolphin-Appleby stable, really, this year is on plan B.
00:02:53They're in a bit of flux because they began this year with not only Modern Games, who
00:02:59a lot of people really didn't realize was a three-year-old last year when he won the
00:03:04Woodbine Mile and the Breeders' Cup Mile.
00:03:06He was beginning his four-year-old season.
00:03:09They had a horse called Adyar, who they were bringing back as a five-year-old, who had
00:03:13won the Epsom Derby at three.
00:03:16They had Hurricane Lane, who had won the Irish Derby at three, and they were bringing
00:03:21him back this year as a five-year-old.
00:03:23He had only been beaten three-quarters of a length in the ARC in 2021.
00:03:27They had a horse called Native Trail, who was a three-year-old, was narrowly beaten
00:03:31in the English 2000 Guineas, won the Irish 2000 Guineas, right?
00:03:36They had a horse in Australia named Animo.
00:03:39That's not Appleby, but it's a Goodolphin.
00:03:42Nine Group 1 wins, $7 million in earnings.
00:03:46All of those horses, including Modern Games, had to be retired during the calendar 2023
00:03:52season.
00:03:53So, it has been a year of complete upheaval for the Appleby-slash-Goodolphin stable.
00:03:59But they sure landed on their feet on Saturday at Woodbine.
00:04:03Master of the Seas, even though the Speed Figure guys don't have his performance quite
00:04:10as powerful as Modern Games was when he won the Woodbine Mile a year ago, they looked
00:04:15an awful lot alike, his race Saturday and Modern Games' race a year earlier.
00:04:21And right now, the way I look at it, I think that Master of the Seas currently would have
00:04:28to be a relatively solid favorite in the early figuring for the Breeders' Cup Mile again
00:04:35this year at Santa Anita.
00:04:36Randy, even over Casa Creed?
00:04:39I think so.
00:04:40Oh, definitely.
00:04:41Yeah.
00:04:42I mean, Casa Creed is the best of the American milers.
00:04:46I don't think that the entire American mile turf division stacks up to what the Europeans
00:04:56would typically bring over.
00:04:58And we saw an example of that with Master of the Seas on Saturday.
00:05:03And one thing that you know exactly what you're going to get when you come to Santa Anita,
00:05:07and Charlie Appleby has been there numerous times.
00:05:10His first Breeders' Cup winner was at Santa Anita.
00:05:14He knows you've got to bring a horse that can handle a tighter course.
00:05:17He knows you're going to get firm ground at Santa Anita most of the time, unless there's
00:05:21an absolute deluge, which, God, I hope not.
00:05:24But I don't think that's going to happen.
00:05:26So he knows what kind of horses will fit on these American tracks.
00:05:30I tuned into the Godolphin homepage, and the headline there for Master of the Seas was
00:05:35Master of the Seas grasps grade one victory with Woodbine Mile demolition.
00:05:41They actually use the word demolition in print, and that is exactly what he did in 2023.
00:05:48Now, these are the worldwide Godolphin stats, 433 wins worldwide.
00:05:54That's 737 runners, 19%.
00:05:58They've had 111 stakes wins, 111 worldwide, and 16 grade ones, just specifically from
00:06:07the Godolphin stable.
00:06:09I mean, those are some huge numbers they're throwing out.
00:06:12Charlie Appleby is a massive part of that.
00:06:17It's the juggernaut.
00:06:18It's not stopping.
00:06:19It's just getting stronger.
00:06:20Don't stand in front of it.
00:06:21You'll get run over.
00:06:22Randy, as you mentioned, this is not necessarily, at least from the beginning of the year, the
00:06:26A team, and looking at what's happened, and there's a small sample size, but there's been
00:06:32a few other races run in the U.S. this year where Europeans showed their strength, and
00:06:36then when I always go back to his Bolshoi ballet and the sword dancer grade one at Saratoga,
00:06:41he was coming off a sixth place finish at 125 to one in the King George and Queen Elizabeth
00:06:48stakes, and he comes into Saratoga and wins one of our big grade one races.
00:06:52We know the European turf horses are better than the North American horses.
00:06:56I mean, that's their main racing.
00:06:58That's where all their stars run, but it seems to me that the gap between the two has never
00:07:04been bigger.
00:07:05You know, I'm not going to bet on any non-European horses, be they Appleby or Aiden O'Brien.
00:07:12I'm not going to try to beat these guys in the Breeders' Cup.
00:07:14I think they're going to wipe us out.
00:07:16I mean, the gap certainly hasn't shrunk, and it may be widening, and you would think that
00:07:24the Americans would be at least partially catching up because turf racing has become
00:07:30more front and center in America than it was 25 years ago, right?
00:07:35More turf races are run, better horses you'd think, but then the Breeders' Cup rolls around,
00:07:41and that's when you really get to see the best against the best, obviously.
00:07:46And lo and behold, Europeans have now won 12 of the last 15 runnings of the Breeders'
00:07:52Cup turf, four of the last five runnings of the Breeders' Cup mile, and five of the last
00:07:58seven runnings of the Philly and Mare turf.
00:08:01So the proof is in the stats.
00:08:03The Americans right now at the very top levels just don't compete with the Europeans as effectively
00:08:10on turf as you'd think they might.
00:08:13And the rule of thumb has always been, I think, that if you look at European form and you
00:08:19see a group three winner in Europe, that they can win a grade two in America, or a group
00:08:25two winner in Europe is a grade one caliber horse in America.
00:08:30Sometimes it may even be more than that, Zoe.
00:08:32Yeah.
00:08:33I mean, you can just look at some of the horses that Phil D'Amato is winning with.
00:08:37He's bringing horses over from Dundalk that were just winning maiden races in Dundalk
00:08:43that isn't even like a class one track over there, and they're winning graded stakes.
00:08:49So it just goes to show you the quality that they're running against.
00:08:53You just need a horse with a little bit of a turn of foot.
00:08:56Bring it over here.
00:08:57They need to, especially in California, they need to like the top of the ground.
00:09:01You can't bring a soft ground horse over to California.
00:09:04That may lessen the gap between the Euros and the American horses this year alone, having
00:09:09it at Santa Anita, is that it's going to be for firm ground horses.
00:09:14So some European horses may not come out because they don't like to feel the top of the ground.
00:09:19That could be the equalizer at Santa Anita.
00:09:22But yeah, you cannot argue against the stats, the Euros versus the Americans.
00:09:27They have to catch up soon because if you walk down Chad Brown's shed row, almost at
00:09:32least a third of his horses are either a GB bred or an Irish bred.
00:09:38They're all imports.
00:09:40So that there has to be a catch up at some point sooner rather than later.
00:09:45Well, we shall find out.
00:09:46I think at least it's not going to happen this year.
00:09:49One of the big stories of the week, and I'll say, don't you love horses like this?
00:09:53Bango.
00:09:54You know, he's not going out there winning grade ones every weekend, but he won for the
00:09:5911th time at Churchill Downs, and they are calling it the most documented career wins,
00:10:07tying a horse by the name of Reddy's Rocket, who was around about 2012 and started a lounge
00:10:12race.
00:10:13Bango won the Louisville Thoroughbred Society Stakes.
00:10:15He's a six year old.
00:10:16I don't want to rain on the parade too much because I don't want to take something away
00:10:20from this horse because it's really cool, but that's not a record, 11.
00:10:23Because back in 1940, there were horses that ran 75 times during their careers and probably
00:10:28made 50 starts at Churchill Downs somewhere along the line.
00:10:31Somebody's won more than 11 races at Churchill Downs, but we just don't have that information.
00:10:35But having said that, I don't want to be the Grinch who stole Bango's Christmas day.
00:10:41You're trying.
00:10:42You're definitely trying.
00:10:43Oh, my God.
00:10:44I just wanted to bring that up.
00:10:45Give him some credit.
00:10:46He's been running in stakes.
00:10:47It's not like he's winning.
00:10:48He's won nine stakes races.
00:10:49He's really cool.
00:10:50Yeah, it's not like he's winning five claimers.
00:10:51He's a stakes horse.
00:10:52Be nice.
00:10:53My goodness.
00:10:54He's a stakes horse.
00:10:55He's won 11 at Churchill Downs.
00:10:56That's not hard.
00:10:57That's hard to do.
00:10:58You got to give him some credit.
00:10:59Come on.
00:11:00Oh, I give him a lot of credit.
00:11:01Credit also.
00:11:02A lot of credit goes to Greg Foley and his guns as well for the job that they've done
00:11:08with this horse.
00:11:09I mean, Foley has proven to be the greatest horseman in the history of horse racing in
00:11:14the history of horse racing.
00:11:15I mean, it's so good.
00:11:16I mean, it's so good.
00:11:17as well for the job that they've done with this horse.
00:11:20I mean, Foley has proven time and time again
00:11:22he's one of the more underrated trainers
00:11:24on the Kentucky circuit.
00:11:25He doesn't get these, you know, million-dollar yearlings
00:11:28and things like that, but the horses that he gets,
00:11:30he maximizes their potential.
00:11:32We saw it with, you know, Philly sprinters.
00:11:35We see it with Bango.
00:11:3614 career wins for Bango.
00:11:3911 at Churchill, in case you're keeping track at home.
00:11:43He won one race at Turfway on the synthetic surface
00:11:47very early in his career.
00:11:49It might have even been his maiden win.
00:11:50And then he won two at Ellis Park,
00:11:52including most recently the Kelly's Landing stakes.
00:11:55But the Kelly's Landing was a race that was moved
00:11:59from Churchill to Arlington.
00:12:01So while he doesn't get credit for winning at Churchill,
00:12:04it was a Churchill race that he won
00:12:06that happened to be run at Ellis Park.
00:12:08Okay, I take it all back.
00:12:09He's a wonderful horse.
00:12:11And in all seriousness, it's really cool.
00:12:13And we don't have enough horses like this out there
00:12:15that are these kind of blue-collar horses
00:12:17that you can really root for.
00:12:19And they just run.
00:12:20He just, every time out, he just runs his race.
00:12:22So congratulations to Bango and the whole team over there
00:12:25for winning the Louisville Thoroughbred Society Stakes.
00:12:29We want to remind you, and how could you not realize,
00:12:32the TDN Writers' Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:12:35The first week of the Keeneland September sale
00:12:38has concluded.
00:12:39Books one and two saw the sale of 37-figure yearlings.
00:12:4530, that is a big, big number.
00:12:48Turnover through the first seven days
00:12:50stands at just $350 million.
00:12:54We'll talk more about the Keeneland September sale,
00:12:57which continues through this coming Saturday.
00:12:59It's not over yet.
00:13:01That's September the 23rd, a little bit later in the show.
00:13:04But first entries are now being taken
00:13:06for the Keeneland November breeding stock sale
00:13:08held this year, November the 8th through the 16th.
00:13:11We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:13:18At Keeneland, a horse will always be measured in hands.
00:13:25Hands that see, that sense, that speak.
00:13:32Hands that hold our sport to a higher standard.
00:13:37Not for our sake, but for theirs.
00:13:41For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:14:01For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:14:16The Retired Racehorse Project's Thoroughbred Makeover
00:14:19is presented by the Thoroughbred Charities of America.
00:14:22It takes place at the Kentucky Horse Park in Lexington,
00:14:25October the 11th through the 14th.
00:14:28Thoroughbred Makeover will welcome 404 horses,
00:14:32including both recently retired racehorses
00:14:35and for the very first time guys, former broodmares.
00:14:39I looked up a couple of the former broodmare division,
00:14:44which I think is a fabulous brand new category
00:14:48because there are too many former broodmares
00:14:50just tossed to the wayside.
00:14:52This one's entered in the dress ad section.
00:14:54Her name is Summer Chant.
00:14:56She's a 2012 model by Summer Bird.
00:14:59She's had a couple of folds already.
00:15:01Her last race was in 2015.
00:15:04Todd Pletcher had her.
00:15:05She won two of seven.
00:15:07Rebecca Jones from South Carolina is her listed trainer
00:15:11and she is a Wertheimer homebred.
00:15:14She was actually sold at the Keeneland November sale,
00:15:16I think last year for the upset price of $1,000.
00:15:20So good to see her get a soft landing.
00:15:23One more to mention guys, in the eventing category,
00:15:27there's a horse called Ghost at Midnight.
00:15:29He is number 227 by Curlin out of Midnight Lucky.
00:15:34A few years ago, he was a $1.2 million yearling
00:15:38right here at Keeneland September
00:15:40and he will go forward in the eventing segment.
00:15:43A really worthwhile thing they have going on there.
00:15:47You can look up more entries at rrp.org slash entries.
00:15:53They're pretty cool to see all these horses being entered,
00:15:55don't you think guys?
00:15:56Yeah, that's just phenomenal
00:15:58and the industry deserves a lot of credit
00:16:00for doing such a good job with this.
00:16:02All right, so Zoe, as I introduced you,
00:16:04you are a Keeneland September expert here.
00:16:07Randy and I, I don't know about Randy,
00:16:09but honestly I don't pay that much attention to the sales,
00:16:12but it looks to me like the story kind of never changes.
00:16:15The high end of the market is fantastic
00:16:18and the middle and lower end of the market,
00:16:21am I right about that?
00:16:23Yeah, I mean, they've made almost up to $350 million thus far.
00:16:28They're on par for last year.
00:16:30The median's dropped, I think, by 3.5%.
00:16:34I will say one thing.
00:16:35I went around and looked at Book 5 horses.
00:16:38I have never seen as many people here for Book 5
00:16:42that I have seen the last couple of days.
00:16:45I think people got shut out in Book 4
00:16:47and they're staying for Book 5.
00:16:49Nobody's leaving.
00:16:50I'm like, what, guys?
00:16:51What are you still doing here?
00:16:52Just go home right now.
00:16:54All these guys are still on the grounds looking at horses.
00:16:57I mean, it's just been a terrific sale all around.
00:17:00The money for the top end horses is still going to be there.
00:17:03I mean, you had a $700,000 Good Magic cult sell yesterday
00:17:08to Tom Ryan in Book 4.
00:17:10That doesn't usually happen.
00:17:12Some of the first-year sires have been terrific.
00:17:15Vekoma, they're very, very nice.
00:17:18Volatile, extremely nice.
00:17:20You got Game Winner, a son of Candy Ride.
00:17:23He had one sell for $275,000.
00:17:26So the first-year sires are in demand through Book 4, 5,
00:17:30and they will be through 6.
00:17:31And, you know, City of Light.
00:17:33Hey, guys, last year you couldn't give away a City of Light,
00:17:36and now they've come around full circle.
00:17:38So it's really been a terrific sale not only for the buyers
00:17:41but also for the sellers.
00:17:43Randy, where are you?
00:17:44I mean, why don't you come and buy a horse?
00:17:46Come on, Randy.
00:17:48You know, it's really odd, and I've been in horse racing
00:17:53for a long time.
00:17:55But I'm always doing television shows typically around the
00:18:01Keeneland September sale or the Keeneland April sale, whatever.
00:18:05I have never been to a Keeneland sale session.
00:18:09Really?
00:18:10Not one.
00:18:11Not one.
00:18:12Yeah.
00:18:13Well, come on.
00:18:14What are you waiting for?
00:18:15Come on.
00:18:16We'll buy you a horse.
00:18:17Well, I would have my hand in the air.
00:18:19I can guarantee you that.
00:18:20Randy's present hole.
00:18:22Zoe, Christmas is on.
00:18:23Oh, my God, what a perfect name.
00:18:25We have to do it.
00:18:27Christmas is on its way.
00:18:28Maybe we'll surprise Randy with a little present underneath his
00:18:31Christmas tree.
00:18:34So this week, HISA came out with its report looking into the
00:18:38situation at Churchill Downs where 12 horses died,
00:18:41unfortunately, around Kentucky Derby time,
00:18:44and then they decided to move racing to Ellis Park.
00:18:48And one of the things that they came up with was that,
00:18:53this is verbatim, data revealed the injured horses were in more
00:18:58races per year in their careers.
00:19:00So they're actually saying that, you know,
00:19:03is there a link to horses running more often and potential
00:19:07breakdowns?
00:19:08Now, the two of you should know how I respond to that.
00:19:11My head exploded when I saw this.
00:19:14I mean, thank you, HISA,
00:19:15for doing the good work and everything like that.
00:19:17But two things, first of all,
00:19:19you can't possibly draw any conclusions like that looking into 12
00:19:23horses when unfortunately the amount of horses that pass away each
00:19:28year is much more than that.
00:19:30And I'll take another, I suppose,
00:19:32so by that line of thinking, let's take a look at Saratoga.
00:19:35And I hate to bring up bad subject,
00:19:37but I still want to mention this.
00:19:38Maple Leaf Mel passed away,
00:19:41was euthanized in her sixth lifetime starts,
00:19:43had four this year.
00:19:44The gaps in between her races were 56 days,
00:19:4850 days, and 28 days.
00:19:49New York Thunder, the other one who tragically passed away,
00:19:52and made five lifetime starts with the gaps in between 33 days,
00:19:5684 days, 89, and 29.
00:19:58So if I look at the Churchill situation,
00:20:01like HISA did and apply it to these two horses,
00:20:04I'm coming to the conclusion that they didn't run enough,
00:20:06that there was too much time in between the race.
00:20:08And I don't want to make any light of this because it's an awful tragic
00:20:11situation.
00:20:12But I just don't believe for a minute that,
00:20:17you know,
00:20:18the horses racing little more often than the average,
00:20:21even that's the case has anything to do with this.
00:20:24Really?
00:20:25It doesn't surprise me.
00:20:26It really doesn't.
00:20:27I mean,
00:20:28I know there are obviously outliers.
00:20:30And I think,
00:20:31I think the letter mentioned that there are obviously some horses that are
00:20:34more sturdy than others,
00:20:36but all you have to do is look at how horses are being trained nowadays
00:20:41and how often they're being campaigned compared to how often they were
00:20:45campaigned even 25,
00:20:4730 years ago.
00:20:48And you,
00:20:49and you can tell,
00:20:50and even from talking to trainers,
00:20:51you can tell,
00:20:52you know,
00:20:53that they believe that today's horses are less durable slash more
00:20:58fragile than the horses of yesteryear.
00:21:01I remember in the night,
00:21:03and this is 30 years ago,
00:21:04I was in the newspaper business.
00:21:06And I don't remember if it was in the aftermath of the Prairie Bayou
00:21:11breakdown in the Belmont stakes,
00:21:13but I had been talking to trainers 30 years ago who told me that they
00:21:18thought horses were less durable.
00:21:20And I thought,
00:21:21who can I talk to for a newspaper column?
00:21:23Who would be the guy to call?
00:21:25I called Woody Stevens.
00:21:27And I said,
00:21:29Woody,
00:21:30do you think horses today's horses are less durable than before?
00:21:32And he went on for 30 minutes talking about how horses 30 years ago were
00:21:39less fragile or more fragile today than they were back then.
00:21:43So,
00:21:44I mean,
00:21:45look,
00:21:46if,
00:21:47if trainers,
00:21:48you know,
00:21:49the money that trainers make that they bill owners for each day that they
00:21:53train a horse goes for the top stables,
00:21:56it goes almost 100% to feeding horses,
00:21:59stable upkeep,
00:22:01paying salaries,
00:22:02things like that.
00:22:03Trainers make their money from purses,
00:22:05from winning races.
00:22:07And if trainers thought that they could run horses more often and get the
00:22:13same results,
00:22:14they would,
00:22:15they would run horses more often and make more money for their owners.
00:22:18Their owners would make more money,
00:22:20but they don't feel like that's the case.
00:22:23And,
00:22:24and I think it's not brain surgery.
00:22:27It's not rocket science.
00:22:29When you look at the top stallions in America right now,
00:22:34go back the last 10 years,
00:22:35right?
00:22:36The stallion,
00:22:37the end of the year stallion standings have been dominated by three
00:22:41stallions,
00:22:42tap it,
00:22:43candy ride,
00:22:44and into mischief.
00:22:45They ran six times,
00:22:47six times,
00:22:48six times.
00:22:49You go back and look at the stallions of yesteryear in the fifties,
00:22:53sixties,
00:22:54round table ran 66 times,
00:22:57bold ruler,
00:22:5833,
00:22:59Prince Quillow,
00:23:0033,
00:23:01Halo,
00:23:0231,
00:23:03Bull Lee,
00:23:0427.
00:23:05That's not a coincidence.
00:23:06And most of the stallions that we see right now,
00:23:09dominating American racing were retired,
00:23:12not because of like flight line reasons,
00:23:15but because they had injuries,
00:23:16they were hurt.
00:23:17And so it makes sense that these horses are now going to be passing on
00:23:22questionable durability to the horses that we see running right now.
00:23:29I think that's something that really,
00:23:31I don't know what can be done,
00:23:32but breeders are looking,
00:23:35understandably,
00:23:36they're looking for speed.
00:23:37They're looking for ability.
00:23:38The fastest way in the world to go bankrupt would be to open a stallion
00:23:42barn.
00:23:43I had to have a bunch of stallions and advertise that these stallions are
00:23:47the most durable stallions in America.
00:23:49These stallions will run for years and years that they won't be that fast,
00:23:53but boy,
00:23:54they'll have all kinds of races.
00:23:56Nobody would breed to them.
00:23:57You know?
00:23:58So once again,
00:24:01you know,
00:24:02you're totally wrong.
00:24:03I want to ask you this question.
00:24:06The debate about the triple crown,
00:24:08when first racing came out and said the reasons,
00:24:11the main reason why they want to change the spacing is because they think it's
00:24:15safer for horses four weeks versus two weeks.
00:24:18You obviously must agree with that then.
00:24:20A hundred percent.
00:24:21A hundred percent.
00:24:23The Preakness is one of the most traditional great races in American racing.
00:24:29Right?
00:24:30There's only one reason why trainers run in the Kentucky Derby.
00:24:34Nowadays,
00:24:35they didn't before skip the Preakness and wait for the Belmont rather than run
00:24:39in a race like the Preakness that by the way,
00:24:42is more important to making a stallion than winning the Belmont stakes.
00:24:47And that reason is the trainers think it's not in the best interest of the
00:24:52horses to bring them back in two weeks.
00:24:55And it's not just performance best interest.
00:24:58It's in the overall physical best interest of their horses.
00:25:01I promise you in the back of their mind,
00:25:03they believe that they are taking a gamble if they run their horses back in
00:25:08two weeks that they might not necessarily need to make.
00:25:12So yes,
00:25:13I think it's absolutely should be considered as this horse safety issue.
00:25:19When you look at the spacing of the triple crown.
00:25:21Zoe, did you drink the same Kool-Aid Randy did?
00:25:23I wrote it all down.
00:25:25Actually,
00:25:26that was very interesting round table.
00:25:28How many times did he run?
00:25:2966.
00:25:3166 times.
00:25:33And you're right.
00:25:35I mean,
00:25:36trainers do not make a dime off of day rate.
00:25:39They just don't in order to make their money that 10% of 60%,
00:25:46which is what they get.
00:25:47You have to win.
00:25:48And if you run your horse back in two weeks,
00:25:51the chances are he's going to bounce is not going to be at his optimum peak
00:25:56performance level and you're not going to win.
00:25:58So you've wasted a start.
00:26:00Trainers don't like to run their horses unless they can win and stats.
00:26:04And I think a trainer told me a long time ago,
00:26:08the worst thing to happen was the DRF putting in the percentage,
00:26:13the percentage in,
00:26:15in the form.
00:26:16And that means trainers that like to run their horses into shape,
00:26:19give them a couple of starts.
00:26:21We're basically being crossed off the list because they want a 10% when
00:26:25they're perfectly good trainers,
00:26:27but the percentage is not high enough.
00:26:29So not only are they worried about winning,
00:26:31they're worried about the percentage.
00:26:33And people look at this.
00:26:34People want to have their horses with a high percentage trainer,
00:26:37which means each run,
00:26:39be it every month or every six weeks has to count and they have to win.
00:26:43And the thinking nowadays is less is more.
00:26:48And it's,
00:26:49it's been tried and proven over the course of the last few years.
00:26:54But the question Bill has in the point I made Zoe,
00:26:57what's your opinion on this?
00:26:58I mean,
00:26:59yes.
00:27:00Trainers believe that the performance of their horses will be better with
00:27:04more time in between races.
00:27:06But do you think they believe that in running horses more frequently,
00:27:10they're gambling with their tempting fate?
00:27:15That's something untoward might happen to the horse.
00:27:18If he runs more frequently or she,
00:27:20I'm not buying into that.
00:27:22I'm buying into the fact that most trainers that I have to deal with and
00:27:27that I know are not trying to squeeze an extra race that other horse or not
00:27:32going to,
00:27:33because they're worried the horse is going to break down.
00:27:34I'm not buying into that.
00:27:36That horse won't be in the bar.
00:27:37I'm buying into the fact they want to have their horse ready to run and run
00:27:42its best race,
00:27:43which is why they need the spacing and the time.
00:27:46I don't know too many people that are saying,
00:27:48Oh,
00:27:49I can't run back in two weeks because I think my horse is going to break
00:27:51down.
00:27:52I don't know anyone that thinks that.
00:27:54No,
00:27:55but in my opinion,
00:27:57and this is from talking to many trainers,
00:27:59they don't always necessarily admit it publicly because so many of them
00:28:03train for breeders.
00:28:04And if you say that horses are more fragile than they used to be in effect,
00:28:10you're indicting the breeding industry for breeding horses that are not as
00:28:14sound as they used to be.
00:28:15Now there's some other things involved.
00:28:17You know,
00:28:18what do they do to horses before sales,
00:28:19right?
00:28:20The surgical intervention sometimes with horses before they send them to
00:28:23sale.
00:28:24There are a lot of other things that go into that,
00:28:26but I promise you trainers,
00:28:28the vast majority that I've talked to believe that today's race horses are
00:28:33more fragile and more susceptible to injury.
00:28:38Than the horses were of yesteryear.
00:28:40And I think that plays into it.
00:28:42I really do.
00:28:43Sure.
00:28:44I mean,
00:28:45and they are,
00:28:46I mean,
00:28:47they're definitely more fragile for sure.
00:28:49Randy was one thing to keep in mind.
00:28:51You don't even need to comment on this,
00:28:52but you know,
00:28:53you're talking about,
00:28:54you mentioned Woody Stevens.
00:28:55I think you might've mentioned Chad Brown flight line.
00:28:58Those are those types of horses that fall into that category are what one
00:29:04half of 1% of all the horses that run.
00:29:07If you own a $5,000 claim or you have to run those horses as much as
00:29:11possible,
00:29:12because otherwise you're going to get crushed.
00:29:14I mean,
00:29:15you need to make,
00:29:16you want to make 15,
00:29:1716 starts a year because if you,
00:29:19you know,
00:29:20flight line can race three times a year because he's worth a zillion
00:29:22dollars as a,
00:29:23as a stallion.
00:29:24But if you're some little guy who owns a bowling alley outside of parks
00:29:28and,
00:29:29you know,
00:29:30has a five claimer,
00:29:31you can't afford not to run these horses as really as often.
00:29:33Every time that $7,500 claiming race comes up in the book,
00:29:37you really have to,
00:29:38or else you're going to go,
00:29:39you're going to go broke.
00:29:40That's one of the real dilemmas and real quandaries right now in the,
00:29:44in the race horse business.
00:29:45When you see all these injuries,
00:29:46exactly.
00:29:48The TD and writer's room,
00:29:49meanwhile,
00:29:50is brought to you by the Pennsylvania horse breeders association.
00:29:53We'll be talking in a minute about the races on Saturday at parks,
00:29:56racing in Philadelphia.
00:29:58One of those races is a turf sprint called the turf monster in which
00:30:02Christophe Clement is running a Philly roses for Deborah,
00:30:06who has a sensational record.
00:30:08She's a perfect eight for eight in turf and synthetic races.
00:30:12And she'll be running against the boys for the first time in that turf
00:30:15monster,
00:30:16which has always been a pretty good prep for the breeder's cup turf
00:30:18sprint reason.
00:30:19I'm bringing this up.
00:30:20Roses for Deborah is a Pennsylvania bread.
00:30:24So could we be looking at a scenario where for the second year in a row,
00:30:28a Pennsylvania bread Philly could go on and win the breeder's cup turf
00:30:33sprint.
00:30:34And other Pennsylvania bread news dollarization when the light,
00:30:37the few steaks of Pimlico a half hour before that witty won the bin cat
00:30:41steaks.
00:30:42And at aqueduct on Thursday and allowance went to the West point thoroughbred
00:30:46owned Pennsylvania bread.
00:30:48Don't look back at all.
00:30:49And don't forget when we talk about the races,
00:30:51Saturday at parks,
00:30:52racing the big races,
00:30:53right?
00:30:54The Pennsylvania Derby,
00:30:55the cotillion.
00:30:56There are also those two PA bread,
00:30:58PA sired stallion series races at parks on Saturday for two-year-olds,
00:31:04each with a purse of $150,000 for more about breeding in Pennsylvania,
00:31:08email PA breeder at gmail.com.
00:31:12The PA horse breeders association presents the Pennsylvania stallion series
00:31:17six races for PA sire,
00:31:19PA bread,
00:31:20two-year-olds at parks to $100,000 contest at five and a half for lunch on
00:31:25August 21st,
00:31:26PA day at the races,
00:31:27September 23rd,
00:31:29PA Derby day as two races at six and a half for lunch,
00:31:32both with a $150,000 purse.
00:31:35And in December,
00:31:36two races going long,
00:31:37each worth $200,000 for more,
00:31:40go to PA bread.com.
00:31:42And now for this week's fastest horse of the week brought to you by the fast
00:31:46sires at windstar farm question.
00:31:49Who is the leading sire of two-year-olds in 2023?
00:31:54That would be Zoe.
00:31:56Constitution.
00:31:58You've got it.
00:31:59You've got it.
00:32:00Fast sires for 1000.
00:32:01Zoe comes up with the answer.
00:32:02Constitution.
00:32:0314 winners who have earned over $1.3 million two-year-olds so far this year.
00:32:10He's also the number one Kentucky sire,
00:32:13Kentucky sire in this category.
00:32:15You look at the number of two-year-old starters compared to two-year-old
00:32:19winners.
00:32:20He's at 47%.
00:32:21And over this past week at Keeneland,
00:32:23Zoe knows this.
00:32:24He's had yearlings sell for 1.3 million,
00:32:26900,000,
00:32:27850,000,
00:32:28and more.
00:32:29It's important that Constitution is the leading stallion son of Tappet.
00:32:35And even more important in this case,
00:32:37that he stands stud at windstar farm.
00:32:40Now the fastest horse of the week.
00:32:42No surprise.
00:32:43We've talked about him already.
00:32:44Master of the seas.
00:32:45The winner of the woodbine mile with a buyer speed figure of 104.
00:32:51Now one year ago,
00:32:52Saturday,
00:32:53modern games won the woodbine mile with a buyer speed figure of 112.
00:32:58But as we said,
00:32:59master of the seas looked dominant in that win in the woodbine mile.
00:33:02And he is this week's fastest horse of the week.
00:33:12The TD and writers room also brought to you by the green group,
00:33:15a tax accounting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:33:20They're the sponsor,
00:33:21of course,
00:33:22of the green group guest of the week.
00:33:23For more information,
00:33:24you can go to www.greencoat.com.
00:33:27Welcome in.
00:33:28Now the green group guest of the week,
00:33:30and it's a special one this week.
00:33:31And I think it'll tug at your heartstrings.
00:33:33It's Wayne Yost.
00:33:34And he is a co-owner of the horse Carson's run who won the summer stakes.
00:33:38Grade one summer stakes last Saturday at woodbine.
00:33:41So let me briefly first tell the story,
00:33:43and then we can have Wade talk more about it.
00:33:45As you see in his back in the background over his left shoulder is his son,
00:33:49Carson.
00:33:50Carson has Wolf Hirschhorn syndrome.
00:33:53I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.
00:33:55And the reason why people in racing might be familiar with that is because that
00:33:59is also the syndrome or affliction that Cody Dorman has that Cody Dorman,
00:34:03of course,
00:34:04is the young man,
00:34:05the horse Cody's wish is named after.
00:34:07Wade went to the United States military Academy with Terry Finley,
00:34:11the head of West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:34:13They stayed friends over the years.
00:34:14They talked a lot about Carson and his condition.
00:34:17And Terry said,
00:34:18I'm going to name a horse after Carson someday.
00:34:20It all came together this year.
00:34:22They named Carson's run after Carson.
00:34:24And lo and behold,
00:34:26they didn't name just any horse.
00:34:27Carson's run.
00:34:29They named a real good horse,
00:34:30a grade one winner.
00:34:31He'll be headed now to the breeders cup juvenile.
00:34:33And we'll welcome in now,
00:34:35Wayne Yost and Wade generally,
00:34:37you know,
00:34:38what has this been like for your family?
00:34:39I can't imagine how good it must feel to have some good news and a
00:34:44positive story.
00:34:45It's been emotional as I already started my voice breaks right now.
00:34:49We,
00:34:51we just want to do something for Carson.
00:34:53He's never walked.
00:34:56And this is an opportunity to give him some focus,
00:35:02give him some limelight.
00:35:03You know,
00:35:04we have four children and the other three were really good athletes are
00:35:08really good.
00:35:09Athletes are all grown now,
00:35:10but he was always going in and with us to their events,
00:35:13to as they competed in the various sports and was always in the
00:35:18background.
00:35:19Yeah.
00:35:20He's always been one of our focuses.
00:35:24And so we just,
00:35:25Terry and I have been talking for over a decade about this,
00:35:29the possibility of,
00:35:30of doing something in his honor.
00:35:32And the timing was just right with,
00:35:36with what was going on this year with a variety of things.
00:35:38Carson just turned 31.
00:35:41He wasn't supposed to be with us and,
00:35:45and supposed to have passed early in life,
00:35:48but mainly because I'll give all the love to his mother,
00:35:53who has constantly taken care of him.
00:35:56As I completed my military career,
00:35:59as I've gone into business and we've just been very fortunate that he is
00:36:05who he is living in his own little world.
00:36:07As you can see right now, he just, he's happy,
00:36:10relatively healthy and exceeded all our expectations.
00:36:15But we just, it was one of those things where like, okay,
00:36:17let's give him some limelight.
00:36:19And it was more of just living vicariously through something,
00:36:25an animal that can actually run.
00:36:28He's been confined to a wheelchair since day one.
00:36:32And it's just a phenomenal thing that Terry and,
00:36:38and West Point Thoroughbreds has done for us.
00:36:40And the fact that Carson's run has had the successes he has had to date is
00:36:47just an added smile on her face.
00:36:52It just makes us happy that we can live vicariously through it this way.
00:36:58And Carson gets to experience something at least visually that he can't do
00:37:04physically. And so that's where we're at with it right now.
00:37:08Yeah, Wade, sort of like Cody's wish.
00:37:10It seems like there's something else at play here, you know, I mean,
00:37:13to have two situations like this and two really,
00:37:17really good horses is just flabbergasting.
00:37:20One of the real coincidences here that I was reading is that you and Terry
00:37:25had made the decision about Carson's run,
00:37:28even before the Cody's wish story came to pass.
00:37:33Can you talk about that a little bit?
00:37:34And then what it was like knowing this was in the pipeline to then watch Cody
00:37:39Dorman and Cody's wish at the Breeders' Cup and some of those other races?
00:37:44Yes. It, like I said,
00:37:48Terry and I had been talking about this for some years,
00:37:50but we were both at West Point back in the end of February,
00:37:54beginning of March for a funeral of one of our classmates who passed.
00:37:57And that's when Terry said, you know what? We're not getting any younger.
00:38:00We need to make this happen. So I said, all right, we're all in, let's do it.
00:38:06And lo and behold, a couple of weeks later, he called me up and said,
00:38:09I think I have the right horse. And I said, let's go for it.
00:38:13And he made sure that we decided to call it Carson's run.
00:38:16So that was in late March.
00:38:19And Carson and I were home by ourselves the day of the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:24And at that point, I didn't know about Cody and Cody's wish,
00:38:29but as we were sitting there, just Carson and I in front of the TV,
00:38:33watching one of the buildup to the final race,
00:38:37I think it was the ninth race of the Kentucky Derby.
00:38:39And they started doing the special about Cody. And as soon as they showed him,
00:38:43there's no doubt in my mind before anything was even said that he's got four P
00:38:48minus as well. And they went forward and talked about it.
00:38:53And it was emotional for me to watch that on top of everything else.
00:38:59And then, you know, then later that day, Terry and I talked,
00:39:04and I was like, you know, I'm glad we're doing this,
00:39:07but I didn't want to take any of the special circumstance away from Cody and
00:39:11his family and, and how well Cody's wishes done. And I just was,
00:39:15I was unsure that we were doing the right thing at that point. And Terry said,
00:39:19no, you can't take anything away from Cody and you can't take anything away
00:39:23from Carson. So we're doing this.
00:39:27And then evidently I didn't know that Kelly,
00:39:32Cody's father and Terry had crossed paths at some point.
00:39:37I don't know how good of friends they are,
00:39:38but they reached out to Terry and said,
00:39:42we'd like to get together with, with Carson and his family.
00:39:46So we've been talking via text and we've been congratulating each other.
00:39:49I look forward to them. I think the next race is on the 30th of this month.
00:39:53It sounds like we may both of both horses may be at the breeders cup.
00:39:59If so, we'd love to get together with them.
00:40:01We'll we'll talk about it after we get through some more races here.
00:40:04It's, it's good that it's out on the West coast for us.
00:40:08Given that we live in Washington state, it may still be tough.
00:40:11Carson has a lot of issues.
00:40:15One of which is a very low immune system.
00:40:17So with everything going on right now,
00:40:18with all the viruses going on in the world,
00:40:20it may be tough to get them down there, but we'll see,
00:40:23but we're hopeful and we'll continue to talk to Cody and his family.
00:40:26And, and that would be just,
00:40:29that would be the epitome of all this is,
00:40:31is to see those two together and then watch the horses run in the same
00:40:35weekend.
00:40:36Wade, two beautiful stories.
00:40:38And the one thing we love about horse racing is the stories and the people
00:40:42that it encompasses. So I'm really looking forward to it.
00:40:45Hopefully I'll get to meet you at breeders cup along with the Dorman family,
00:40:49but I want to talk to you a little bit more about the horses.
00:40:52I know you've been on the show for a long time,
00:40:56but I want to take you back.
00:41:00You're a guy who firmly wears his heart on his sleeve.
00:41:04How was that very first win for you watching a horse named for your son?
00:41:10You just wanted to honor him with a name to be a four-legged athlete.
00:41:16How was that feeling for you watching him cross the finish line?
00:41:19Not once, but twice, but three times like that.
00:41:23It's gotta be pretty amazing.
00:41:25Yeah. Now you're going to see my heart on my sleeve again.
00:41:30Just seeing his name in print and seeing the horse trot out
00:41:36and the manner in which they did.
00:41:40I don't know what I was expecting as my wife and Carson were sitting here
00:41:46waiting for it to start and they got in the gate and I'll say I was kind of
00:41:50numb at first because you're like, okay, this has already exceeded all our expectations.
00:41:56And then the manner of which Carson has run the race and then to see it repeated
00:42:03for the other two, especially this last one where
00:42:09Carson's always in the back of the pack.
00:42:11Carson's always the one who's just there with everybody else.
00:42:15And to see him slingshot around the corner and come back and be in the winner's circle,
00:42:23be in second place, be just competing, continues to be overwhelming for me personally.
00:42:30But it was kind of alluded to earlier.
00:42:35I do believe animals understand in some way, shape or form.
00:42:41You've seen some of the pictures of Carson and his dogs.
00:42:46They weren't bred to be helping dogs.
00:42:48They're just family pets.
00:42:50But all four labs we've had have been special to him.
00:42:56They know he's special.
00:42:58They take the time to, like the one we have now, Barley,
00:43:02she won't really cuddle with anybody but Carson.
00:43:06And she'll get right up on the couch and she'll cuddle with him.
00:43:08They know there's something special.
00:43:10And I think it's the same with horses.
00:43:12You can say, like in our case, Carson's run and Carson have not met.
00:43:17I know in Cody's case, Cody and Cody's wish, that was really instigated by Cody's wish.
00:43:23But I think there's still something there about they know they have a special purpose in life
00:43:28and they're doing it for somebody.
00:43:30And so it doesn't surprise me when it's all said and done that both these horses
00:43:34are doing what they're doing on the track.
00:43:36I am very anxious to see, you know, wheel Carson up next to Carson's run
00:43:43and to see what the reaction of the horse is.
00:43:46My gut says it's going to be a very affectionate, different from all the other different people
00:43:52that he's ever been close to, to Carson.
00:43:55And I can't explain it.
00:43:57No proof of it.
00:43:58I've just seen what our animals have done to Carson and how they've reacted to him
00:44:02and how they've cared for him.
00:44:03And I think it's the same in horses as in many other animals.
00:44:07Yeah, I'm sure you're right about that, Wade.
00:44:09I think it's going to be wonderful when Carson meets his namesake.
00:44:15When I wrote the story originally about this with Thoroughbred Daily News, I asked,
00:44:19does Carson, is he at all aware of what's going on?
00:44:22Is he aware that there's this horse out there named after him?
00:44:25This is where his mother and I kind of differ.
00:44:29She's around him day in and day out.
00:44:30She has been since day one.
00:44:32And I saw early on where he doesn't like crowds,
00:44:38which makes another thing about going to the track race a little bit difficult,
00:44:41but we'll figure something out.
00:44:45Even when he was really young, six months old, a year old,
00:44:49we could be in a room of people.
00:44:51And as soon as he heard his mother's voice, he would focus on it.
00:44:56Does he understand certain things?
00:44:58Probably.
00:44:59He does have the mental capacity.
00:45:01I think he maxed out about a one year old.
00:45:03So he doesn't walk.
00:45:05He doesn't talk.
00:45:07In his communication, he'll hug.
00:45:09He's got a high pain threshold.
00:45:11So we don't really know when he's hurting.
00:45:13But it was very interesting when the first time Kim,
00:45:19his mother put him up in front of the TV to watch the very first race.
00:45:22He was just kind of sitting there kind of looking at the TV.
00:45:25And then the combination of the announcers with the commotion of the horses
00:45:30moving.
00:45:31But it seemed like every time they said Carson's run,
00:45:34he seemed to focus more and get a little bit more animated.
00:45:37So I'm not going to discount what his mother says.
00:45:42Kim says that he understands who he is.
00:45:44He understands what his name is.
00:45:46He does understand, you know,
00:45:47or we think he understands who his family is,
00:45:50at least from a hugging standpoint.
00:45:52But any one of you,
00:45:54when you meet him,
00:45:56he'll give you a big old hug if you get too close.
00:45:58So mother's no best.
00:46:01I'm not going to discount his ability to at least understand some basics.
00:46:05But I do believe he knows who his family members are and his name when it's
00:46:11spoken.
00:46:12On the scale of importance way,
00:46:14this is pretty far down the pecking order,
00:46:16but I'm just curious.
00:46:18I know you've your friendship with Terry Finley.
00:46:20Have you been an avid follower of horse racing or are you now just really
00:46:25getting an introduction into this particular world?
00:46:28I'm just now getting an introduction.
00:46:31I will say that I've followed Terry since the beginning of West Virginia.
00:46:36And I've been a big fan of him.
00:46:37I'm just now getting an introduction.
00:46:39I will say that I've followed Terry since the beginning of West Point Thoroughbreds
00:46:43when he first got involved and he left the military,
00:46:46mainly in the beginning because he made a point to,
00:46:52to make sure that we were okay.
00:46:54He would ask every time I saw him,
00:46:58you know,
00:46:59how's Carson and a lot of our friends were very apprehensive in the beginning
00:47:05because he wasn't supposed to be with us.
00:47:07Especially in military,
00:47:09you see everybody maybe once a year,
00:47:11army,
00:47:12Navy game,
00:47:13football game,
00:47:14or some events,
00:47:15some reunion,
00:47:16but you don't see him that much because you're all over the world.
00:47:18And so when I'd see him,
00:47:20there was just apprehension.
00:47:22You know,
00:47:23do I ask about Carson?
00:47:25What if he's still alive?
00:47:27Never with Terry.
00:47:29Terry was always,
00:47:31that was the first thing he asked.
00:47:33He pulled me aside and we have this emotional aspect.
00:47:36And that's priceless.
00:47:38So I started really following more closely.
00:47:40And there's another thing that our class does.
00:47:45Terry's part of the board,
00:47:47the Johnny Mac Foundation,
00:47:49helping families that have lost their loved ones in combat,
00:47:54make sure they get to school if they want to go to school,
00:47:57college.
00:47:58And so Terry,
00:48:01several years ago,
00:48:02one of the Houston galas,
00:48:04they did a Terry and West Point Thoroughbreds put up a fundraiser to have
00:48:09partial ownership and horse.
00:48:11And they just,
00:48:12people bid on it and it really got a lot of good,
00:48:16not just publicity,
00:48:18but money for the cause.
00:48:20And so the next year as our kids or other kids who got scholarships from
00:48:25college in one way or another,
00:48:27and the money we had saved up,
00:48:28Kim and I decided that we were going to give as much of that money to the
00:48:32Johnny Mac,
00:48:33because we could,
00:48:34it was supposed to be for college education and our kids earn their own way
00:48:38through college.
00:48:40So the money still should go that.
00:48:42And it's a great cause that,
00:48:44you know,
00:48:45our classmates have done.
00:48:47And so our first delving into horse racing was
00:48:52after the Dallas one,
00:48:54five years ago,
00:48:55four years ago before COVID,
00:48:56where we went ahead and used it to some of that college money to,
00:49:01to bid on one of those fundraiser items of being a partial owner and a horse.
00:49:07And so we were with Cali dude when you guys had that,
00:49:12unfortunately for,
00:49:13for Cali dude,
00:49:15his racing career ended short,
00:49:18but it was still fun to exciting to be a part of and starting to
00:49:23understand that.
00:49:24And then as this opportunity came up,
00:49:28you know,
00:49:29again,
00:49:30the spring where we got serious about it,
00:49:32I was like,
00:49:33yeah,
00:49:34let's do it again.
00:49:35See what happens.
00:49:37For those that may not know the whole story,
00:49:40how did yourself and Terry meet?
00:49:43Did you meet at West point?
00:49:44Did you meet in the army?
00:49:45And do you have any really good Terry stories that you maybe should or
00:49:50shouldn't tell?
00:49:51Terry and I met early in our West point career,
00:49:54July.
00:49:55We had to report in as new cadets,
00:49:57July 1st,
00:49:581982.
00:49:59And we met during that first week.
00:50:02And we we've been,
00:50:04he's a likable guy.
00:50:05It was hard not to like.
00:50:07So we were friends.
00:50:09And then we were in companies,
00:50:12our second,
00:50:13third and fourth year at the Academy that were closely aligned.
00:50:18And without getting into too much detail,
00:50:21we spent a lot of time walking,
00:50:23what we call area tours for doing things we shouldn't have done in the
00:50:27military.
00:50:28So if he wants to expand on that,
00:50:30I'll let him.
00:50:32I will say I spent a lot more time on the area than he did,
00:50:35but we had some good quality time together.
00:50:38Wait,
00:50:39it's touching to see how emotional you get about this subject,
00:50:42but don't let anybody fool anybody.
00:50:44You gotta be a really tough guy.
00:50:45Not only did you go through West point,
00:50:47but you fought for our country.
00:50:49And there's been when West point itself wrote a story about this,
00:50:53they mentioned the fact that there's been some link to people who fought
00:50:57in the Gulf war,
00:50:59having children with some sort of disabilities.
00:51:03Are you of the belief that perhaps your,
00:51:05your time in the military and the Gulf war in particular could have
00:51:08somehow.
00:51:09The bottom line is we don't know.
00:51:10But yes,
00:51:11the possibility exists.
00:51:12I know it did.
00:51:13It definitely did for some that have been diagnosed.
00:51:17By and large,
00:51:18this chromosomal disorder is,
00:51:20is overwhelmingly one of the two parents is carrying their chromosomes,
00:51:25not the way God had intended,
00:51:27but it just hadn't affected them until they,
00:51:30they have offspring.
00:51:32That didn't happen with my wife and I.
00:51:35I don't know.
00:51:36So we don't know.
00:51:37And we were Carson was doing studies.
00:51:39We were doing studies for three years after he was born.
00:51:42And we got to a point where the studies got to be too frequent,
00:51:46the blood that they drew,
00:51:48the tests that they did.
00:51:50And we finally just decided that it was time to move on with life and not
00:51:55put him through any more of that rigor.
00:51:57Nothing was ever conclusive for us,
00:52:00but yeah,
00:52:01it was,
00:52:02nothing was ever conclusive for us,
00:52:04but yes,
00:52:05there's,
00:52:06there's a lot of things in the house before I say this,
00:52:10there's nothing I would change in my military career.
00:52:12I do it all over again,
00:52:13exactly the same way.
00:52:14You can't predict these things,
00:52:17whether some people say God's will,
00:52:19or it just happens.
00:52:21Our situation has proven over time,
00:52:24the fact that we still have him with us.
00:52:26And the fact that he's had definitely the positive influence over me,
00:52:29but also I know his mother and our three other kids wouldn't be who they are
00:52:34without that today.
00:52:36So ultimately,
00:52:40yes,
00:52:41there are things that we do in the military and whether it is some of the
00:52:45preventive drugs that we take,
00:52:47or in,
00:52:48in our case,
00:52:49you know,
00:52:50my unit was in oil fields for an extended period of time,
00:52:52burning oil fields and extended period of time.
00:52:54But as we hear about burn pits today,
00:52:56and we're finding out more things you know,
00:52:58agent orange with my dad in Vietnam before that constantly the,
00:53:03the government,
00:53:04the military do the best they can at trying to protect the war fighters.
00:53:08And it's only after the fact that you find out things that may or may not have
00:53:12happened.
00:53:13And you deal with them in our case.
00:53:17We've been so fortunate with who,
00:53:19where we are and being in the military and being,
00:53:23having the benefits we have through our medical system and that the military
00:53:27has provided that we're never going to have to worry about his care.
00:53:31There's a lot of people out there that do.
00:53:33And it it's we know it's difficult for them to deal with,
00:53:37with,
00:53:38with us.
00:53:39We haven't had to worry about it.
00:53:40And as long as Carson's alive,
00:53:42he will be on my military benefits.
00:53:45And so we're being taken care of and life is good.
00:53:48Yeah.
00:53:49I just want to say thank you so much for your service.
00:53:53I'm really looking forward to meeting yourself,
00:53:55Wade and hopefully Carson at Breeders' Cup.
00:53:58Yeah.
00:53:59We got to get them out to one of your races.
00:54:02Well,
00:54:03we certainly hope that you can make the Breeders' Cup.
00:54:04What a touching story.
00:54:06And it's,
00:54:07it's so neat not only that you had the horse named after your son,
00:54:10but as Vandy mentioned,
00:54:11I mean,
00:54:12what are the odds that this happens twice within a matter of a couple of
00:54:15years with the Cody's wish story as well?
00:54:18Wade,
00:54:19thank you so much for your time.
00:54:20And I don't know who I'm going to be betting on in the Breeders' Cup.
00:54:22Juvenile turf,
00:54:23but I know who I'm going to be rooting for Carson's run.
00:54:26How can you not wait?
00:54:27Thanks so much for your time today and best of luck.
00:54:29Thank you all.
00:54:30With both the horse and Carson.
00:54:33And as this week's green group guest of the week,
00:54:35Wade Yost will receive a free one hour tax consultation for more information
00:54:40on how you can save money on your taxes.
00:54:43Especially if you're involved in this resource business,
00:54:46you can log on to www.greenco.com.
00:54:52Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:54:54The green group can help.
00:54:56There's a reason the most successful owners,
00:54:58breeders and horsemen select the green group as their tax advisors.
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00:55:05Over the past 40 years,
00:55:07the green group founder,
00:55:08Len Green has owned and bred some of the best race horses in the history of
00:55:12the sport.
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00:55:15Jaywalk and Wonderwheel.
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00:55:52With some of the fullest fields in the country and quality racing year round,
00:55:57there's never been a better time to reap the rewards of breeding and racing in
00:56:02Kentucky.
00:56:04Purse money in Kentucky is at an all time high as his average purse per race
00:56:09outpacing California,
00:56:10Florida,
00:56:11and New York.
00:56:13Kentucky breads,
00:56:14breed them,
00:56:15raise them,
00:56:16race them.
00:56:18We all win.
00:56:22Three Kentucky breads broke their maidens last week in Europe,
00:56:26including Talentuoso,
00:56:28a son of Omaha beach who won on debut at St.
00:56:31Clu.
00:56:32Blame and Temple city also had winners in France and Ireland.
00:56:37There are two more Kentucky breads heading to the Breeders' Cup after this
00:56:40weekend.
00:56:41They are,
00:56:42we already talked to the connections of Carson's run.
00:56:45Carson's run won the grade one $500,000 summer stakes to earn a birth into the
00:56:51Breeders' Cup juvenile turf.
00:56:53And she feels pretty hit the winner's circle to win the grade one $500,000
00:56:58Natal mistakes to earn her way into the juvenile fillies turf.
00:57:02That was Cherie DeVos,
00:57:03very first grade one winner.
00:57:05Kentucky breads,
00:57:06breed them,
00:57:07raise them,
00:57:08race them all over the world.
00:57:10Well,
00:57:11this weekend,
00:57:12all eyes will be on parks just outside Philadelphia and the town of Ben Salem
00:57:16township.
00:57:17And it's their big day of the year,
00:57:18huge card top by the grade one cotillion for three-year-old fillies,
00:57:221 million.
00:57:23And of course the grade one Pennsylvania Derby,
00:57:25as Randy mentioned earlier,
00:57:26Pennsylvania breads will also be in action.
00:57:28There's two races for two-year-old PA sired,
00:57:31PA bred horses,
00:57:33Prince,
00:57:34the Prince lucky stakes and the imply stakes,
00:57:36both worth 150,000.
00:57:38Also PA breads will be running in the plum pretty and the alphabet soup guys.
00:57:42Um,
00:57:43you know,
00:57:44always fun to see the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:57:45It's the last big race on the calendar for three-year-olds come into the
00:57:49breeder's cup.
00:57:50But the race I'm really excited about among the two is the cotillion.
00:57:53Um,
00:57:54it's the better race of the two on paper,
00:57:56uh,
00:57:57pretty mischievous.
00:57:58Uh,
00:57:59somebody,
00:58:00I don't think she gets quite the credit she deserves.
00:58:01She's won three straight races.
00:58:02We'll be going for her fourth in a row in the cotillion.
00:58:05I imagine she'll be the favorite in there for Brendan Walsh,
00:58:07but,
00:58:08uh,
00:58:09by no means a walkover for her.
00:58:10Um,
00:58:11my pick is going to be,
00:58:12uh,
00:58:13the cow bred Zoe.
00:58:14How about ceiling crusher after a big win in the Torrey pine stakes going
00:58:17wire to wire for Doug O'Neill and Edwin Maldonado.
00:58:20We'll see what happens in the cotillion.
00:58:22Randy,
00:58:23your thoughts on that one.
00:58:24Then we'll go to the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:58:25You stole the page right out of my playbook.
00:58:28I think pretty mischievous from a percentage standpoint is probably the
00:58:34slightly more likely winner.
00:58:35But when you look at what the odds are probably going to be,
00:58:38I would guess pretty mischievous will be the favorite.
00:58:40I'd be pretty confident she would be a shorter price than ceiling crusher.
00:58:44And with,
00:58:45with ceiling crusher speed,
00:58:47I think she'll probably control the pace.
00:58:50I think she'll outrun Hoosier Philly to the lead.
00:58:52There's one outside post position,
00:58:55local Philly majestic creed who has shown some speed,
00:58:59but I think ceiling crusher with inside position on her,
00:59:03it's probably going to set the pace.
00:59:04And I think it's going to come down to those two to the wire ceiling crusher
00:59:07and pretty mischievous in what could be a pretty entertaining race.
00:59:11I think I'm in agreement with you pretty mischievous.
00:59:15I feel like her better races around two turns.
00:59:17She's just a really,
00:59:18really good Philly who's won grade one races going one turn and two turns.
00:59:24I mean,
00:59:25it's not often you see one wins the test going seven,
00:59:27eight and also the Kentucky Oaks.
00:59:29So she's definitely the one to beat ceiling crusher.
00:59:32I mean,
00:59:33she's by Mr.
00:59:34Big out of an Indian Charlie mare.
00:59:36She's won five of six by a combined over 40 lengths guys.
00:59:41I mean,
00:59:42she just runs off and hide.
00:59:43I think if they were drawn the other way around,
00:59:46I would actually pick Hoosier Philly on top.
00:59:48It's just a question of who's going to get to the lead.
00:59:50It looks like Hoosier Philly is a need the lead type.
00:59:54I'm going to take that Charlestown Oaks race and just completely toss it in
00:59:57the bin.
00:59:58Sometimes what happens at Charlestown stays at Charlestown.
01:00:02So I actually am going to pick Hoosier Philly on top of all of them.
01:00:07And we'll just see how that works for me.
01:00:09I'm going to better as well.
01:00:10I think she's been training really,
01:00:11really well.
01:00:12One more thing.
01:00:13When you look at pretty mischievous test stakes,
01:00:15when obviously there's a huge asterisk to that because she was going to be
01:00:19soundly beaten by maple leaf male.
01:00:21And even if you take maple leaf male completely out of the equation,
01:00:24it still wasn't one of pretty mischievous is better races.
01:00:27I think the reason is because they were trying to keep her closer to maple
01:00:31leaf male during the early running of the race,
01:00:33because she was shortening up a bit and 44 and change for a half mile being
01:00:37just four links off that pace.
01:00:39I think that's faster than pretty mischievous really wants to run early.
01:00:43I think she was rushed a little bit more than she likes.
01:00:46So I do also, like you said, Zoe,
01:00:48I expect her to be better around two turns when she can have a bit of a more
01:00:52reasonable early pace.
01:00:54And maybe if they just leave her alone,
01:00:55because even in her works, when you watch her in the morning,
01:00:58she's so slow, the opening quarter, even going five, eights and one-on-one,
01:01:02but she finishes like a blast.
01:01:04If they just leave her alone and let her lollygag back there and try not to
01:01:08change her style too much, perhaps that might work as well.
01:01:13She's certainly going to have some pace to run up.
01:01:15That is for sure.
01:01:16It's going to be wickedly fast up front.
01:01:19Pennsylvania Derby, 1 million for three-year-olds.
01:01:21The Morning Linemaker has reincarnated as a three-to-one favorite.
01:01:24Bob Baffert's won this race four times.
01:01:26I think they got it wrong.
01:01:27I think Saudi Crown will be the favorite.
01:01:29Those big buyer numbers, Randy,
01:01:31I think just jump off the page with Saudi Crown.
01:01:34Two heartbreaking losses by a nose in a row in the Jim Danny and the Dwyer,
01:01:39105 and 106 buyer for Brad Cox.
01:01:41I'm going to pick against that, both those horses though.
01:01:44I'm going to give Magic Tap a chance in here.
01:01:47Big jump up in class from non-winners of one into a grade one,
01:01:50$1 million race.
01:01:51But son of Tapit, I think, is on the improve.
01:01:55I think he's going to need to run faster, but I think he will.
01:01:58My one knock on Saudi Crown is he had a pretty easy trip last time out in the
01:02:02Jim Danny, went to the half in 48 as the horse was on the lead.
01:02:06So I don't think he's going to get that kind of trip in this race.
01:02:09I think Gilmore will deserve some attention for Brendan Walsh as well.
01:02:13But how about getting Magic Tap and Steve Asmussen into the winner's circle
01:02:17for Tyler Gaffiglio in riding.
01:02:19Randy?
01:02:20Zoe, for the record,
01:02:21Bill and I did not collaborate before we came on the air here on this
01:02:25particular race.
01:02:26I also think Saudi Crown is going to be the favorite.
01:02:28I also think Saudi Crown is the kind of favorite that you have to try to bet
01:02:33against.
01:02:34When you look at his last race, he's obviously got a ton of speed.
01:02:37He showed that the race before in the Dwyer,
01:02:41but he was in a five-horse field in the Jim Danny against Forte,
01:02:45Angel of Empire, Hitshow.
01:02:48There was another one in there whose name escapes me right now,
01:02:51who has no speed.
01:02:53So he was going to be in complete control of the early pace, and he was.
01:02:57He had a very easy time of it early.
01:03:00And there are other speed horses in this race that can at least keep him
01:03:05honest and push him a lot more than he was pushed in the Jim Danny.
01:03:09You've got Scotland.
01:03:11You've got Reincarnate on the outside,
01:03:14who bounced back in a big way when he won the Los Al derby.
01:03:17In a race, by the way,
01:03:20that I think is better since he was coming off a layoff from the Kentucky
01:03:24Derby than that 91-buyer speed figure would indicate.
01:03:27But given that I got to play against Saudi Crown,
01:03:30Zoe, I think Magic Tap is a very live horse,
01:03:34and I think he'll be, what, nine to two, maybe?
01:03:39Yeah, he'll be live for sure.
01:03:41Gaffney, I'm going to ride for Steve Asmussen.
01:03:43I'm more intrigued by Scotland of all of them.
01:03:46I'm going to toss out the Travers.
01:03:48He looked like he absolutely hated the mud that day.
01:03:51He's trained very well.
01:03:53You know, the knock against him could be, oh, well,
01:03:55he won the curling stakes, the restricted stakes.
01:03:58But it was a very good race for him.
01:04:01It seemed like he came alive on a dry track that day,
01:04:04a 99-buyer speed figure for Scotland.
01:04:06He can come from off the pace.
01:04:08This is a race that's going to be loaded.
01:04:10You've got Rian Carne on the outside.
01:04:12They're all going to be gunning.
01:04:13Bob Baffert doesn't take back in grade one races.
01:04:15That is for sure.
01:04:16You can bet your bottom dollar on that.
01:04:18But Scotland, one of his best races visually was his actual debut when he
01:04:24broke his maiden, and he came from way, way off the pace.
01:04:27He can eat the dirt, and he can sit back and wait just a little bit,
01:04:31and that's what I'm hoping they're going to do with him,
01:04:33trying to change things up in Scotland for trainer Bill Mott.
01:04:37Bill, there's one other race on Saturday that I want to mention on the card
01:04:41that has an interesting corollary storyline.
01:04:44Gunite, no doubt, correct?
01:04:46That's it.
01:04:47That's the Parks Dirt Mile where Gunite shows up in that race.
01:04:51They could have run Gunite in the next Saturday, a week from Parks,
01:04:56in the Vosburgh at Seven Furlongs,
01:04:58because Elite Power is apparently skipping that race,
01:05:01and he would be a pretty solid favorite in there.
01:05:03The Ack Ack, a one-turn mile at Churchill Lounge,
01:05:07where Asmussen is primarily stable,
01:05:09he would have been a solid favorite in there.
01:05:11But instead, they chose to run him in the Parks Dirt Mile around two turns.
01:05:16And I texted Steve, and I said,
01:05:18what was the thinking behind pointing for this race instead of the other two?
01:05:23And he said he thinks this will be a better prep for Gunite.
01:05:28What does that tell you?
01:05:29That tells you that Echo Zulu is almost certainly being pointed
01:05:33for the Breeders' Cup sprint against the boys,
01:05:37since she is the fastest horse in America right now,
01:05:40and that Gunite, if all goes well with Echo Zulu between now and then,
01:05:45also being owned by Ron Winchell in part,
01:05:48would then be rerouted to maybe run against Cody's Wish again in the Dirt Mile.
01:05:55It's a nice problem to have, to have two good horses like that,
01:05:58but that's why I think it's so interesting that Gunite shows up in this two-turn race at Parks.
01:06:03Did he say that, or are you reading between the lines?
01:06:06Well, he told me that, I said,
01:06:10so does this mean that Gunite is being pointed for the Dirt Mile,
01:06:17assuming it all goes well between now and then,
01:06:20and assuming the sprint looks comparable?
01:06:24And he said that has a lot to do with Echo Zulu.
01:06:28Interesting, interesting.
01:06:30Zoe, what's the latest on the Women's Conference?
01:06:33Well, it's still going on, and we still have tickets.
01:06:36The Women's Conference, it's the Women's Summit to be held at Santa Anita,
01:06:41the 27th through the 29th.
01:06:43Don't forget, it's opening day at Santa Anita for their Fall Meet on September the 29th,
01:06:49and we do have a keynote speaker, Regan Cannon.
01:06:53She is an international leadership speaker and coach.
01:06:57We'll have three panels going on, state of the industry, running the show, and looking forward,
01:07:02and some of our panelists include Shannon Arvin from Keeneland, Brittany Urton, Lisa Lazarus,
01:07:08Joy Garner from Naira, Amy Zimmerman, Claudia Sparrow, and Anne Hall from the DMTC.
01:07:14So do get your tickets.
01:07:16You can find them online.
01:07:17It's the Women's Summit, September 27th through the 29th.
01:07:21It'll be a fun day indeed.
01:07:23And guys, this week the racing industry lost a giant in Brereton Jones at the age of 84.
01:07:28What a rich life he had.
01:07:30Former governor of Kentucky, the founder of Airdrie Stud,
01:07:33and we send our condolences to the Jones family.
01:07:35A big loss for horse racing.
01:07:37Yeah, and when I was reading about Governor Jones,
01:07:42we already obviously knew a lot about him from the horse business and his winning two Kentucky Oaks
01:07:47and things like that.
01:07:49What I guess I didn't realize until reading the news articles is that when he was governor of Kentucky,
01:07:56to show you the integrity that the guy has, I mean,
01:07:59one of his campaign promises was to clean up government in Kentucky.
01:08:07Apparently it had been beset by some corruption scandals before he took office,
01:08:12and he did exactly that.
01:08:14One of his legacies is to really reinforce ethics in government in the state of Kentucky.
01:08:21And he also put through a new law that previously governors were only allowed to serve one term.
01:08:29And that's it. Term limits one term only.
01:08:31And he put in a new law that spearheaded it that enabled existing governors to run for re-election.
01:08:41And he exempted himself while doing that,
01:08:44which again goes to show you the kind of integrity that he has.
01:08:47And from talking to people in the horse business,
01:08:50he ran Airdrie Stud and he ran his horse pursuits with the same sort of integrity,
01:08:56Zoe, that he showed as governor.
01:08:58He was a true champion for the equine industry in all shapes and forms.
01:09:04He leaves behind his son, Brett, his wife, Libby, and Lucy, his daughter as well.
01:09:10Just a very classy guy, ran Airdrie Stud for years.
01:09:14And the one thing that he really did with Airdrie was make their own stallions,
01:09:18including breeding a lot of their mares.
01:09:21If you consider recently what he's done with Collected,
01:09:24breeding a lot of his really good mares.
01:09:27Believe You Can was bred to Collected.
01:09:29That was one of his first mares.
01:09:31And one of his best mottos that he has is, if you believe you can, you can.
01:09:37And that was Brereton Jones in an absolute nutshell.
01:09:41He was also very instrumental in forming KEEP,
01:09:44which was the Kentucky Equine Education Project.
01:09:48I know several graduates out of that.
01:09:51And he used KEEP to actually go forward and help the industry.
01:09:55He was like a key part of getting the historical horse racing machines
01:10:01through all of the hoops they had to jump.
01:10:04And we've seen what that's done to the state of Kentucky as far as purses being doubled.
01:10:09Brereton Jones was a massive force in that.
01:10:13So, I mean, basically just a true, true champion and a great guy.
01:10:20He certainly was.
01:10:22I do want to remind you that the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by XBTV.
01:10:26Speedboat Beach is our XBTV Work of the Week.
01:10:30We have not seen him since winning the Cecil B. DeMille stakes at Santa Anita last fall,
01:10:35and he turned in a bullet five furlong work in 59 seconds flat at Santa Anita on Saturday,
01:10:42the best of 23 works on the day.
01:10:44It's his third consecutive five furlong work, each one faster than the last.
01:10:49Bob Baffert said he's not picked out his next start.
01:10:52The three-year-old has won three of four lifetime starts,
01:10:55including a track record-setting debut performance last September at Del Mar.
01:11:00We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:11:25♪
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01:12:02Visit westpointtb.com.
01:12:06The TDN Writer's Room also brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:12:09We've already detailed the remarkable, heartwarming story of Carson's Run and Carson Yost,
01:12:15owned, of course, by West Point Thoroughbreds and Terry Finley.
01:12:19The details, Carson's Run is a $170,000 acquisition by West Point.
01:12:24He was purchased at the OBS April sale.
01:12:27The Summer Stakes win at Woodbine was his first Grade 1 triumph.
01:12:31It was a win-in-your-in race for the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf,
01:12:34and it was the third time West Point has won the Summer Stakes since 2017,
01:12:39and the fourth straight week that West Point has won a graded stakes race.
01:12:45Just like Zoe, West Point is wrapping up its shopping at the September sales in Canelon.
01:12:51You can go to westpointtb.com and click on the Available Horses tab
01:12:56to see which of their 2023 purchases are still available.
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01:13:03joining a West Point partnership can vault you into the world of instant camaraderie.
01:13:08Right, Bill?
01:13:09Absolutely. West Point will vault you into the winner's circle as well, won't they, Randy?
01:13:16Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:13:18I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cabman.
01:13:21I want to thank our Green Group Guests of the Week, Wayne Yost.
01:13:24Also, our editors, Leo LaRocca, Nathan Wilkinson,
01:13:28and our co-producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca.
01:13:31Thanks for joining us this week on the TDN Writers' Room.
01:13:34Catch up with you again soon.
01:13:45www.tdn.org