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00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room.
00:00:30My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:31I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:34I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports, also with the Byers Speed Figure team here in, uh, if
00:00:40you hear lightning or thunder, it's because we're having some storms here in suburban
00:00:44Minneapolis.
00:00:45But other than that, all is well, Zoe.
00:00:47I did hear that.
00:00:48I just thought you were really hungry for a minute.
00:00:50I was going to feed you, it sounded like your stomach was grumbling.
00:00:54I'm Zoe Cadman here in one of the palatious conference rooms at the OBS sales.
00:01:00I have looked at about 1,200 horses, it looked like a funky tennis match going backwards
00:01:05and forwards for about the last week, but we're here and we're trying to buy some horses.
00:01:10I'm representing, wearing my Speedway hat, and I'm drinking some smart water.
00:01:14We'll see how smart it makes me.
00:01:16Does this actually work?
00:01:18Anyone?
00:01:19I'm not sure.
00:01:20Sure, there's not vodka in there, Zoe, knowing you.
00:01:23That's a good point.
00:01:24That is a good point.
00:01:25Randy's shaking his head, it's not going to make me any smarter, which means he's tried
00:01:29it.
00:01:30Okay.
00:01:31All right.
00:01:32Well, guys, off-track news for the 4,819th time, we have to talk about Baffert and Amr
00:01:38Zaidan.
00:01:39Zaidan, Baffert is not party to the suit, but is trying to sue to get his horse, Mute,
00:01:44into the Kentucky Derby.
00:01:46There was a hearing on Monday in a judge by the name of Mitchell Perry in a courtroom
00:01:53in Kentucky, and he said he would have a ruling by the end of the week.
00:01:58Reading between the lines, I don't think this is going to fly.
00:02:03A couple of things that he mentioned during the trial, he wants the Kentucky Attorney
00:02:07General to issue an opinion on whether or not it's a frivolous lawsuit.
00:02:13The writer for the Louis Vuitton Journal says Perry drilled Zaidan why he waited until
00:02:18April when he knew back in July that Bob Baffert's horses were banned from the Derby.
00:02:25He said the late hour of his request puts an incredible time crunch on everyone involved,
00:02:30including this court.
00:02:32Randy, we don't know what is going to happen here, but I don't blame Zaidan for trying.
00:02:40He's got the resources.
00:02:41This is how America works.
00:02:43You fight for yourself.
00:02:45You try to win cases in the courts.
00:02:47He can obviously afford this, but my gut feeling is it's not going to happen.
00:02:53I listened to the whole thing.
00:02:55I was on a patched in to listen to the whole hearing, and judges are notoriously difficult
00:03:03to read by things that they say and the questions that they asked.
00:03:08He was very involved asking questions to both sides.
00:03:12First it was Zaidan's attorney that spoke, and then it was Churchill Lowndes' attorney
00:03:15that spoke.
00:03:16And the constitutionality part of it, I mean, he requested a rescheduling of the hearing
00:03:22to 1.30 p.m. Eastern on Wednesday so that the Kentucky Attorney General could weigh
00:03:26in on not just the constitutionality of the Zaidan side, but also the constitutionality
00:03:34of Churchill's motion to dismiss.
00:03:39So it goes both ways, and he wants to make sure that the attorney general has a chance
00:03:44to weigh in if he even chooses to weigh in at all.
00:03:48And the judge said he hoped to make a decision to be ready on Wednesday, if not certainly
00:03:53by the end of the week.
00:03:57My gut in listening to it is that the primary concern, obviously, of the judge is the timing
00:04:07of the lawsuit.
00:04:08He expressly asked Zaidan's attorney, this could have been filed last July when Churchill
00:04:15Lowndes first extended the Baffert ban from two years to three years.
00:04:19Why did you not file it then?
00:04:21You could have filed it, I could have ruled on it then, and we wouldn't have to be going
00:04:25through this right now, right before the Kentucky Derby.
00:04:29And the response from Zaidan's attorney was that back then in July, Churchill Lowndes
00:04:35Incorporated undoubtedly would have argued that there were no damages at that point,
00:04:42that it was very speculative whether Zaidan could have any horses in the Kentucky Derby
00:04:47in 2024.
00:04:48He said, so we decided to wait so that our case would be much stronger after Muth won
00:04:54the Arkansas Derby and came back well, that there would be damages if the three-year ban
00:05:02was upheld.
00:05:04Churchill Lowndes made the point, obviously, that other owners and trainers who, quote,
00:05:12played by the rules would be affected by this, and their horses would be bumped down and
00:05:16even off the list if Baffert's horses were allowed to be put in, Zaidan's attorney countered
00:05:21by saying, if you believe, if the evidence shows that the extension of the ban from two
00:05:29years to three years was not valid, then if any other trainers, owners are impacted by
00:05:37this, it's Churchill Lowndes' fault.
00:05:41They're the ones that made their own bed, so to speak.
00:05:44They're the ones that brought this problem that caused us to file this lawsuit.
00:05:51So, you know, if you rule that that three-year extension was not appropriate, then that takes
00:05:59care of any of the problems that other owners might encounter.
00:06:04But he did come back to that several times to both attorneys about the timing of it.
00:06:09And I think that is a concern.
00:06:12And if this doesn't go through, if they don't rule in Zaidan's favor, I think that will
00:06:17undoubtedly be the reason why.
00:06:19Because otherwise, I think Zaidan has a very strong case.
00:06:23And I'm in agreement with every single thing that you just said then, Randy.
00:06:28And you're right about the timing of it, because it just seemed like everyone took a deep breath.
00:06:33What was it?
00:06:34Three weeks, a month ago, when, you know, Bob wrote the letter to say they were dropping
00:06:39everything and weren't pursuing.
00:06:40And we were like, OK, great.
00:06:41Well, you know, next year for sure, Bob will be back in the derby.
00:06:46And now, is this just going to rub them the wrong way?
00:06:49Is this going to exacerbate a problem?
00:06:52I mean, it does have merit, because one thing we know for sure is that Churchill Downs moved
00:06:57the goalposts.
00:06:59The goalposts were moved.
00:07:00It was supposed to be two years, and then it was four years.
00:07:03And that is not fair.
00:07:05Whatever you think about Bob and how he's gone around this, that was not fair.
00:07:10So, you know, they have the ability to just move them again and do what they want.
00:07:16That's my biggest concern moving forward with Bob going in the derby.
00:07:21We don't know.
00:07:22And we're filming this on Tuesday just to see what's going on.
00:07:25Yeah, I want to mention that we're filming this on Tuesday.
00:07:27So by the time you're viewing this, you might know the end of the story, but we're trying
00:07:32to fill in the blanks as best we can right at this point.
00:07:34So I want to pick up on your point.
00:07:36If I were Zidane, I'd be a little worried that Churchill is so vindictive that they
00:07:41say, God damn it, you're suing us again.
00:07:43Well, congratulations.
00:07:45You're not running in 2025.
00:07:46I know.
00:07:47And Bob has nothing to do with this suit.
00:07:49It's purely Zidane.
00:07:50So I haven't spoken to Bob.
00:07:51I don't know.
00:07:52But I mean, it's it's a tightrope.
00:07:55You're walking.
00:07:56This has already happened once.
00:07:57There's nothing to say.
00:07:58It won't happen again.
00:07:59Absolutely.
00:08:00Yeah.
00:08:01Yeah.
00:08:02I mean, I asked I asked Bob about the lawsuit prior to the Santa Anita Derby.
00:08:06And very predictably, Bob said, look, I don't want to talk about it.
00:08:10It's not my lawsuit.
00:08:12I have nothing whatsoever to do with it other than the fact that I train these horses.
00:08:16Yes.
00:08:17Would I love to be back at Churchill Downs?
00:08:18Yes.
00:08:19But it's not something that I'm going to comment on at all.
00:08:22So he's pulling it.
00:08:23He's pulling it pretty close to the vest.
00:08:25The part about Churchill Downs being able to do anything it wants.
00:08:29That was part of the the Churchill attorney's argument to the judge is that on the stall
00:08:35applications on the nomination forms and all that, it expressly says that Churchill Downs
00:08:40has the right to exclude any horse from any race for any reason that it chooses.
00:08:47And the Churchill Downs attorney said that when when that was signed, that that effectively
00:08:52becomes a contract.
00:08:55So that's also part of the Churchill Downs argument.
00:08:58We can ban whoever we want, for whatever reason we want, for however long we want.
00:09:02Well, I'm not as confident as you are, Randy, that they have a good case, but we shall find
00:09:08out.
00:09:09Hopefully this won't drag on any longer than maybe another couple of days.
00:09:12So other things in the world of tilting scales of justice.
00:09:17We've seen this before and we have it again.
00:09:20We have a positive for Met Foreman that came out from Haibu from on trainer George Weaver.
00:09:26I believe this is the seventh Met Foreman case that they've had to deal with, which
00:09:31started with Jonathan Wong way back when Met Foreman is a human drug use for type two diabetes.
00:09:39And already George Weaver and his attorney have said that the groom of the horse was
00:09:45a Met Foreman, had a prescription for it, had to add use for it.
00:09:50You know, this is all this comes up again and again and again.
00:09:53And I don't envy being in the position of the Haiza Haibu people because there's some
00:09:58real tricky things that they have to navigate here.
00:10:03But this to me is still one more case where an honest trainer did nothing wrong.
00:10:10I mean, you just need a modicum of common sense.
00:10:13George Weaver has been around for a long time, he's got a great record, a high class guy.
00:10:19He's not out there juicing horses, he didn't do anything wrong.
00:10:22Now, at the end of the day, I doubt he's going to have to serve a two year suspension.
00:10:26Usually Haiza is now, you know, cutting deals with them or whatnot.
00:10:31I don't have the answer, but them continually nailing people where just I'm sure Randy and
00:10:39Zoe both would agree, there's no chance, zero chance that he doped the horse with this drug.
00:10:46We need to find a better system.
00:10:48And maybe it is Metformin before Haiza came in was, you only got a 15 day suspension,
00:10:55which is what Wesley Ward got, he had a Metformin positive at Monmouth.
00:11:00So maybe that's one solution right there.
00:11:02Take it off the banned substance list, put it on the controlled substance list where
00:11:06the penalties are much smaller.
00:11:08Well, you know, look, Haiza is in a very tough spot, I agree with you, Haiza and Haibu.
00:11:15There is some anecdotal evidence from what I've read that Metformin can possibly have
00:11:21a positive impact on racehorse performance.
00:11:25So you know, I mean, Haiza always has to consider the possibility that, and I'm not saying this
00:11:31is what happened at all with George Weaver, because I totally agree with you, everything
00:11:35you said about George.
00:11:36But I mean, you don't want a situation where if one of your grooms in the barn is on type
00:11:41two diabetes medication, then suddenly that's a free pass for the trainer to say, oh, okay,
00:11:46I can use Metformin on my horses and I can always say it's contamination or something
00:11:50like that, you know.
00:11:51And that's a little bit of a ridiculous analogy, but you know, it's a positive.
00:11:56And so they're in a very tough spot.
00:11:59They're doing whatever they can do.
00:12:01And they've taken a lot of steps right now, even with the FTC, to try to change the regulations
00:12:10as it pertains to contamination from human, commonly used human medications.
00:12:16And Metformin is apparently the third most prescribed medication in the United States.
00:12:24But until that happens, I mean, right now, the most recent Metformin positive, if I'm
00:12:28not mistaken, was where a groom also who handled the horse also had type two diabetes and was
00:12:36on Metformin.
00:12:38And it was reduced from two years to two months.
00:12:42I don't know how much lower they can go than that, but that might be what if they can prove
00:12:49the situation with the groom, that that might be what George Weaver's looking at.
00:12:52And even two months is unfortunate, but I mean, it's a positive test.
00:12:57It's contamination across the board.
00:13:00And I actually read a tweet from Jonathan Wong just the other day when this came out.
00:13:08And it basically said, it's it's nobody's problem until it's yours, because no one really
00:13:14came forward to support Jonathan Wong.
00:13:16And now it's happening to, you know, George Weaver and all hell has broken loose and blah,
00:13:23blah, blah.
00:13:24I mean, it's just do you win at 40 percent?
00:13:27Do you win at 20 percent?
00:13:28Oh, well, he wins at 40.
00:13:29So he has to be guilty.
00:13:31Is he?
00:13:32I don't know.
00:13:33He wins at 15, 20.
00:13:34Well, then, no, of course, he's not guilty.
00:13:36It's just one of those.
00:13:37There has to be a way to figure out how to police this better.
00:13:43And I'm for his.
00:13:45But this is getting to be ridiculous.
00:13:47We talk about it every week.
00:13:49Yeah, absolutely.
00:13:51So one more thing, too, and they I think this is a quote from Lisa Lazarus or somebody from
00:13:55Hyrule.
00:13:56They said, you know, it's not our job to figure out who the good guys are, who the bad guys
00:14:01are.
00:14:02And I think the three of us and a lot of other people are kind of guilty of doing that.
00:14:07We know George Weaver's a good guy, to be honest with you.
00:14:11Are we really sure about Jonathan Wong, who kind of, you know, is his type of trainer
00:14:15that I think raised some suspicions.
00:14:18So but that's not their job to say Trainer A is a good guy.
00:14:21He would never juice a horse and Trainer B is a crook and a bum.
00:14:26He would do it all the time.
00:14:27It's and I do agree with him.
00:14:28That's right.
00:14:29I mean, you can't bring personalities and reputations into it like, right.
00:14:33It has to be, which I did to start this off saying what a great guy George Weaver is.
00:14:37He's never cheated in a million years.
00:14:39But I do understand that.
00:14:40I think, again, the only thing you know, and Mandy, you were talking about the two months.
00:14:44I just think in this one particular drug, it ought to become a controlled substance
00:14:49because apparently it was before Heisa took over.
00:14:52And you know, we weren't getting these, you know, metformin positives left and right.
00:14:56And this isn't the last of it.
00:14:57I mean, with this stuff being so prevalent in society, I mean, look how easy it is going
00:15:02to be for your horse to test positive for this stuff.
00:15:06I do want to remind you that the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland.
00:15:10Keeneland has cataloged 111 horses for the April Selected Horses of Racing Age Sale to
00:15:17be held after the last race on the last day of the Keeneland Spring Meet.
00:15:21If you don't know when that is, it's April 26th.
00:15:24Horses entered in the sale include more than a dozen winners of their most recent races
00:15:30and more than 20 horses who have owned an 80 plus speed figure.
00:15:34That's pretty good in my mind.
00:15:36In their recent starts, the catalog is dominated by lightly raced stocks with 69 entries that
00:15:42have four or fewer starts.
00:15:45That's a bit of a tongue twister.
00:15:46Sixty nine entries that have four or fewer starts.
00:15:51Also, entries for the September Yearling Sale are now open.
00:15:55The sale will start on Monday, September the 9th.
00:15:57Let me write that down because I will be there.
00:16:00And the entry deadline is May the 1st.
00:16:03We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:16:07When the Spring Meet ends, summer success begins.
00:16:12Buy, sell, fresh winners, hot prospects.
00:16:17One night, one chance.
00:16:20Finish strong.
00:16:23Don't miss out.
00:16:24The Keeneland April Selected Horses of Racing Age Sale.
00:16:28Friday, April 26th.
00:16:50This week on the TDN Writer's Room, we welcome back our new advertiser, Pleasant Acre Stallions
00:17:13in Ocala, Florida, a 400 acre property which is home to 13 stallions, including Chess Chief,
00:17:20down here in Ocala, Florida.
00:17:23Perhaps I might go and give them a visit.
00:17:24All right, Chess Chief, if you remember him,
00:17:27he's a graded stakes winning son of intermischief.
00:17:30He's new to stud in 2024.
00:17:33I can tell you he is one good looking horse.
00:17:35He was the winner of the grade two New Orleans Classic and the Tenacious Stakes at the fairgrounds.
00:17:41He is out of a grade one winning mine shaft mare.
00:17:44Her name was Unblessed.
00:17:45Chess Chief was also the Virginia bred horse of the year.
00:17:49And all the champion in 2021 is about as solid as they come,
00:17:54being campaigned over six consecutive seasons.
00:17:58Think about that.
00:17:59Six.
00:18:00Most only stand for one.
00:18:01He raced from two to seven where he beat talented grade one winners,
00:18:05such as Mucho Gusto, Long Range Toddy and Roadster twice.
00:18:10And I do remember him running in the 2019 Bluegrass where Vekoma and Win Win Win
00:18:17with just a few lengths in front of him.
00:18:20Chess Chief stands for $5,000.
00:18:24All right, and I've been really looking forward to this part of the podcast
00:18:28because this particular fastest horse of the week is brought to you by Two Fills,
00:18:33one of the fast sires at Windstar Farm.
00:18:36At Windstar, they like to say that Two Fills has Danzig speed.
00:18:38Why would they say that?
00:18:39Because Two Fills is a son of Hardspun and Hardspun is a son of Danzig.
00:18:44And any regular consumer of this podcast knows where I stand on Two Fills.
00:18:48I think he was the best three-year-old in 2023.
00:18:50I thought he should have won the Kentucky Derby.
00:18:52Only a very hot pace kept him from winning.
00:18:55He was the first three-year-old last year to run three consecutive 100 plus buyer
00:18:58speed figures, including the 105s in the Derby and the Ohio Derby.
00:19:03And oh, by the way, the 105 in the Kentucky Derby is equal to or higher
00:19:07than every Derby winner in the last 15 years.
00:19:12Two Fills won a graded stakes as a two-year-old, multiple graded stakes
00:19:16as a three-year-old, and his four career stakes wins were by a combined 26 lengths.
00:19:22Two Fills standing his initial season at Windstar Farm for a fee of only 15,
00:19:27excuse me, 12,000, it's even better, $12,500.
00:19:32Now, we had quite a few solid buyer speed figure performances last week,
00:19:35but the fastest horse of the week, no surprise, Master of Seas,
00:19:39who ran for the first time since his unbelievable closing burst in the Breeders' Cup Mile
00:19:44to win the Maker's Mark Mile at Keeneland and earn a buyer speed figure of 107.
00:19:51We will talk a little bit more about that Maker's Mark Mile performance right now.
00:19:57Bill?
00:19:58Well, let's talk about it.
00:20:00The story is not only that Master of the Seas won, but stablemate Naval Power was second.
00:20:06You know, we were talking about with the Met Foreman thing,
00:20:08we keep talking about the same old thing.
00:20:10It's the same thing with Charlie Appleby.
00:20:12You know, we just come on, this guy's unbelievable, he wins again.
00:20:15But, you know, it's a story that needs to be told over and over and over again.
00:20:20Here are his statistics in North America.
00:20:23He's 31 for 81, that's a winning rate of 38%.
00:20:29All 31 of his winners are stakes winners, 23 of them are grade ones.
00:20:36I mean, that is just amazing stuff.
00:20:38A foreign trainer, an outfit from Europe, winning 23 grade ones in North America.
00:20:44And Master of the Seas is a absolutely good one.
00:20:46I'm sure he'll be pointing him now for the Breeders' Cup Mile again.
00:20:50And it's good to see good horses run and put on a show.
00:20:54And Charlie Appleby, you can't beat this guy, Zoe, you just can't.
00:20:57No, it's almost impossible.
00:20:59You can't even run second nowadays because he's running two.
00:21:01Right, yeah.
00:21:02So, I mean, good luck with that.
00:21:04He was just terrific.
00:21:05And, I mean, let's face it, this guy runs on any kind of ground.
00:21:08He runs on rocks.
00:21:09When it came up yielding, I was like, nobody is beating him.
00:21:14And, you know, 137 on a rain-soaked turf course at Keeneland that is called yielding.
00:21:19Now, I've been on the Keeneland turf course when it's been called yielding,
00:21:22and it was up to my knees.
00:21:24So, to put out that kind of time and that kind of performance was just absolutely terrific.
00:21:31He is just a very, very cool horse.
00:21:35And a great rider.
00:21:36Yeah, William Buick.
00:21:37And Appleby is making North America more and more a part of the program,
00:21:43of his program coming from the UK.
00:21:45I'm going to take this in a slightly different direction because I think this is interesting.
00:21:48They sent five horses from the UK to Keeneland over the last week or two.
00:21:54Master of the Seas won the Maker's Mark and, of course, Naval Power finished second.
00:21:58Two good efforts.
00:21:59English Rose, a very good second.
00:22:01And the Ginny Wiley, despite being very rank throughout most of the early part of that race.
00:22:06Mischief Magic was a very strong second in the Shaker Town.
00:22:10And Musical Act was fifth in the Transylvania.
00:22:14All five of those horses right now have remained in the United States,
00:22:20and they are all nominated for Kentucky Derby Weekend stakes races.
00:22:25Appleby has never run a horse.
00:22:27He's never had a starter on Kentucky Derby Weekend.
00:22:31He's had a couple of noms that he didn't choose to bring over.
00:22:35But Master of the Seas and Naval Power are nominated for the Turf Classic.
00:22:38English Rose for the Distaff Turf Mile.
00:22:40Mischief Magic for the Twin Spires Turf Sprint.
00:22:43Musical Act for the American Turf.
00:22:45And they're also planning to bring over Legend of Time,
00:22:48who beat Musical Act by four and three quarters lengths at Maidan in a listed stakes race,
00:22:54a minor stakes, a little bit earlier.
00:22:57So the attack by Charlie Appleby on American racing is continuing,
00:23:02and it now apparently is branching out to cover Kentucky Derby Weekend as well.
00:23:06And won't it be interesting to see if it happens to see Master of the Seas
00:23:11now try to stretch out from a mile to a mile and an eighth in the Turf Classic?
00:23:16He has won a group stakes in Europe before at the mile and an eighth distance.
00:23:20And looking at the way he runs and his pedigree,
00:23:23you wouldn't think that a mile and an eighth would be any problem at all.
00:23:26Wow. Is that the reason you're wearing blue today, Randy?
00:23:30The dolphin blue?
00:23:32Coincidental. This is NBC blue, right?
00:23:36Oh, one other thing. You mentioned the Jenny Wiley.
00:23:39How about that ride Frankie put up?
00:23:42Oh, how about that?
00:23:43Fresh off the basics.
00:23:45How about this? Frankie Dettori and Chad Brown,
00:23:49the horse, Beau Cachet, pays $53.
00:23:53Where were we?
00:23:55Gita Romantica on the grass.
00:23:58Gita Romantica was seven to two surge capacity.
00:24:01These are all Chad Brown horses.
00:24:02Surge capacity four to one.
00:24:03Fluffy Sox, 13 to one.
00:24:06However you say her name, Beau Cachet, 25 to one.
00:24:09Gafleon rode Gita Romantica. Rosario rode Surge Capacity.
00:24:12Irad rode Fluffy Sox.
00:24:14Jose Ortiz, which would have been another go to guy for Chad Brown,
00:24:18was riding Didia, who finished second or finished third in there and ran pretty well.
00:24:22She was one of the favorites.
00:24:23So Frankie was left.
00:24:25They take Frankie wire to wire.
00:24:27Easy pace. 25 to one.
00:24:30Yeah. Where were we?
00:24:31And listen to this.
00:24:32This is the best part.
00:24:34They interviewed Chad before the race, right?
00:24:37And Chad is like, you know, where are your runners going to be in the race?
00:24:40And he's like, well, so-and-so is going to be here.
00:24:41This one's going to go forward.
00:24:42And Beau Cachet, well, she's going to come from the back of the pack.
00:24:50Frankie had other plans.
00:24:53It's funny.
00:24:54We would talk to when I talked to Baffert before the Santa Anita Derby.
00:24:58And I think I told the story on the Santa Anita Derby telecast.
00:25:01But when Frankie first rode Imagination, I think it was the San Felipe.
00:25:06Yeah, Baffert, Baffert started giving to Tori all these instructions in the paddock.
00:25:10OK, I want you to do this much.
00:25:11And Frankie held his hand out and said, Bob, Bob, how is the horse doing?
00:25:18And Bob said, he's doing he's doing really well, Frankie.
00:25:21And he said, that's all I want to know.
00:25:23Yeah. And he goes out there and does his thing.
00:25:26Right. Yeah.
00:25:27Maybe that was the Chad situation.
00:25:29I don't want to hear strategy.
00:25:31Yeah, I've got this.
00:25:32I've got this. And he did.
00:25:34And it's just so much fun.
00:25:35You know, he won a race on the Friday.
00:25:39I think it was a maiden race.
00:25:40You know, Frankie's getting older.
00:25:41He doesn't want to jump off every horse.
00:25:43So it was the first one he won at Keeneland.
00:25:47And they bring him in the winner's circle.
00:25:49He doesn't jump off.
00:25:50He got booed.
00:25:54He got back on the horse and then jumped off.
00:25:57But yeah, he got booed because he really got booed.
00:26:00Oh, my God.
00:26:02He is a showman.
00:26:03He's 53 years old.
00:26:04He can't do that every time. Right.
00:26:06Yeah. God bless him.
00:26:08Here's another subject that we don't talk a lot about.
00:26:11Brad Cox won a stakes race.
00:26:13Gee, we've never heard that before here on the TDN Writers Room podcast.
00:26:16He won the Lexington with Encino.
00:26:19It was the first ever dirt start for this horse after racing
00:26:22on the Topita at Turfway Park.
00:26:24He's got 40 points now.
00:26:26He's in the Kentucky Derby.
00:26:28Florent Giroux rode in that race.
00:26:30I don't think he's going to ride him back because he has just a touch.
00:26:33So I guess that Brad Cox is looking for a rider.
00:26:35Maybe Frankie Detore. Who knows?
00:26:37But, you know, the Lexington is a nice enough race.
00:26:41But you really don't see many powerhouse horses come out of it
00:26:45and make do in the Kentucky Derby.
00:26:48But I've learned the hard way never to underestimate Brad Cox.
00:26:52Yeah. Do not underestimate him.
00:26:54And I didn't see really any excuse from the wine steward.
00:26:58I thought Dilja ran well for Mike Ryan to be third at 38 to one.
00:27:03But Encino making his very first start on the dirt floated the right thing.
00:27:07He didn't let him get any kickback.
00:27:09He just went.
00:27:10So, yeah, it was good.
00:27:12It's not probably going to be enough points to get him in.
00:27:16Oh, I think it is, Zoe.
00:27:17I think he's 19 already. Yeah.
00:27:19OK. All right.
00:27:21And he'll and he'll probably move up a spot when Christophe Clement,
00:27:26you know, draws a line through deterministic in the Kentucky Derby,
00:27:30which he said he is likely to do.
00:27:31What's interesting about Encino?
00:27:33It's just a perfect example of how difficult it is now
00:27:36for handicappers in the Kentucky Derby.
00:27:39Because this horse was described after he won the Battaglia
00:27:44by Tessa Walden, who is Brad Cox's assistant, as being he's a big,
00:27:49beautiful horse, but as being mentally immature.
00:27:51Specifically, he loses focus.
00:27:55Right. And he tends to look around a little bit
00:27:58and tends to get a little bit of a wandering eye.
00:28:00And that's why for the Battaglia, they wanted him to have a target.
00:28:03They thought that would keep him a little bit more focused on his business
00:28:07when he had a horse in front of him.
00:28:08And it worked out, worked out perfectly in the Battaglia.
00:28:10But as you pointed out, Zoe, in the Lexington on dirt for the first time,
00:28:15the last thing they wanted was for him to get kickback.
00:28:17He had a couple of other really fast horses in there, pace horses in Hades
00:28:21and Lucky Jeremy, and he just outbroke them.
00:28:24He broke exceptionally quickly and went to the lead.
00:28:27But OK, if he and they commented that he was
00:28:31Florent Giroux said he was a little lost out there looking around and all that.
00:28:35You know, a lot of times writers say that
00:28:37and it doesn't really translate into performance in the afternoon.
00:28:40But this horse is obviously lightly raced.
00:28:43He's obviously still improving.
00:28:45He's going to improve theoretically with experience.
00:28:49Back in the day, these horses had already run 10, 12, 15 times,
00:28:52and all that improvement from experience was already baked
00:28:56into their past performances.
00:28:57Now we have to judge horses like Encino.
00:28:59We don't know what the ceiling is.
00:29:02We don't know how much more they can improve with experience, if any.
00:29:06That's just one of the X factors that not only horse players don't know,
00:29:10but the trainers and the jockeys themselves don't know
00:29:13where the ultimate ceiling is on a horse like this.
00:29:15Do you remember handicapping like the derby 15 years ago?
00:29:20You would never handicap a race and be like, well, you know, he's a little green.
00:29:25There were no green horses back then.
00:29:26It was are they good enough or are they not good enough?
00:29:30But no one ever said this horse is green.
00:29:32I don't know how he's going to act because they'd already run five, six,
00:29:35seven, eight times. Right.
00:29:37Yeah. And I'm worried about green.
00:29:39There wasn't there was none of that.
00:29:41So how's this horse going to handle kickback?
00:29:43Right. Oh, my God. Yeah, exactly.
00:29:46The TD and Riders Room, as always, is brought to you
00:29:48by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:29:52I was a big fan last year before the Breeders' Cup turf sprint
00:29:56of a filly by the name of Roses for Deborah.
00:29:58I thought she had a great chance to win.
00:30:00She finished ninth of 12 in there.
00:30:02But the Pennsylvania bred Roses for Deborah bounced back in a big way
00:30:07this past weekend at Canelon, winning her first start since the Breeders' Cup.
00:30:10The grade three Giants Causeway stakes.
00:30:12It was her fourth stakes win.
00:30:14Second integrated stakes.
00:30:15Trainer Christophe Clement says Roses for Deborah will head next
00:30:18to either the Intercontinental grade two against Phillies and Mayors
00:30:21or against the boys again, maybe in the grade one JIPER.
00:30:25Both of those races are during the Belmont Stakes Festival,
00:30:28which this year will be at Saratoga.
00:30:31Meanwhile, over to Laurel.
00:30:32Disco Emo led wire to wire in the one hundred thousand dollar
00:30:37Prima Neta stakes.
00:30:39The five year old mayor is now a stakes winner at age two,
00:30:43three, four and five.
00:30:45Isn't that cool?
00:30:46So to become a Pennsylvania breeder of a horse like Disco Emo and eligible
00:30:50for a piece of 30 million dollars in breeders incentives,
00:30:53you can go to PA Bread dot com or you can do it the old fashioned way
00:30:57and call six one zero.
00:31:00Wait, there's more numbers.
00:31:01That's the area code.
00:31:02Four, four, four, ten, fifty, six, one, oh, four, four, four, ten.
00:31:07The state of Pennsylvania has the best breeders program
00:31:11in the entire United States.
00:31:13When you buy a yearling, it's a little bit like buying a lottery ticket.
00:31:16And we are trying to provide the lottery ticket
00:31:18that the likelihood is to hit the jackpot.
00:31:21Angel of Empire wins the Arkansas Derby and wins it clear.
00:31:25Uncle Heavy laid it's a photo finish.
00:31:29Pennsylvania and the PHBA have the best state
00:31:32bred program in the country, bar none.
00:31:34The winner, Uncle Heavy.
00:31:35He's a three year old bred in Pennsylvania.
00:31:40Can't get out of my mind.
00:31:41I saw him down at OBS for the two year old sale.
00:31:44His breeze was spectacular.
00:31:47And then top the sale.
00:31:49Everything he did in his career, breaking his main sprinting on the dirt.
00:31:53Very, very impressive debut.
00:31:55Winning a grade one, stretching out, breezing through the stretch.
00:31:59He's the real deal.
00:32:00And then the Breeders' Cup at Del Mar.
00:32:02He's just too good.
00:32:03Cornice wins the Breeders' Cup Juvenile.
00:32:07And then going on and being a champion two year old.
00:32:10Extremely difficult to do.
00:32:12Obviously, Quality Road has done enough for for all of us
00:32:14to understand what he's doing.
00:32:16I thought Wasted Tears was a very, very good mare, a Nashman mare.
00:32:19She obviously won the Ginny Wiley stakes.
00:32:21Also, a course record holder in the Ouija board.
00:32:23So really good female family, good sire line, was delighted
00:32:27with him physically and was excited to breed to him.
00:32:29It's very important for us to breed physical to physical
00:32:32and try to get the best physical cross.
00:32:35We're very happy with the foal we've gotten.
00:32:37He's got a great natural shape to him.
00:32:39Great hip, got a lot of power behind.
00:32:41It's very nice balance to him.
00:32:43Plenty leg.
00:32:44You always like to see a horse have enough leg.
00:32:47Also, he's a very intelligent foal.
00:32:50You know, pricks his ears, has a has good presence to him.
00:32:55This is Cornice Filly out of Anima Gemella.
00:32:58Been a standout since she was born.
00:33:01Very strong, very well made.
00:33:03Good mover.
00:33:04Really, you know, everything we were hoping for.
00:33:09You know, he's got a really sharp eye.
00:33:10Good, good shoulder, neck set.
00:33:13Nice top line, like the way he finishes out behind.
00:33:15But he really sort of travels over the gown smoothly
00:33:18and just has a real sharpness to him about his body.
00:33:20And it's exactly what I was hoping for.
00:33:23But I mean, we all know that hopes and dreams are not actually
00:33:25what they always pan out to be.
00:33:26So when they pan out, you're double down.
00:33:31And the TD and Writer's Room brought to you by our longtime
00:33:35friends at the Green Group, which, as we like to say,
00:33:38and as Lynn Green likes to say, is a tax accounting and advisory firm
00:33:42specializing in the thoroughbred industry and designed to help save you money
00:33:46in this mid April date on your tax bill.
00:33:51Welcome in now the Green Group guest of the week.
00:33:53It is Mr. Dennis Albaugh, who is the head of the Albaugh family stable.
00:33:57And he's going to talk to us about the Green Group.
00:33:59The head of the Albaugh family stable.
00:34:02And once again, they're in the Kentucky Derby this year
00:34:04and with a serious contender catching freedom.
00:34:07Dennis, we welcome you as a Green Group guest of the week.
00:34:09This is going to be your seventh Derby starter since 2016.
00:34:14And you're not like Mike Rapoli going out and buying 100 yearlings every year.
00:34:18How have you done it?
00:34:20You haven't won yet, but you had a great finish last year.
00:34:22What is going right that you your family and your operation
00:34:25are getting this many horses into the Derby?
00:34:27You know, we've actually had 10 horses in the last seven years at the Derby.
00:34:31So we had three last year, which was a unbelievable record.
00:34:36We got a team of guys that helped me pick out horses.
00:34:40Every year I go over to the Keeneland and look at those horses.
00:34:44And there's like a thousand horses for sale.
00:34:47And I said, we're going to pick one of these is going to be the Derby, right?
00:34:50But my team, I got my hat off to them.
00:34:53Well, we've done it and they did it again this year with a good contender.
00:34:57And that would be Catching Freedom, Dennis.
00:34:59So you were third with Patio Prado in partnership with Donegal quite a while ago
00:35:04and then third last year with Angel of Empire.
00:35:07Tell us a little bit about the excitement level with Catching Freedom
00:35:10now, who seems to be getting better and better each time he runs.
00:35:13You know, he's made some mistakes in the last two or three races.
00:35:17And we're with a very good trainer, Brad Cox.
00:35:21And I think hopefully the horse is over some of those mistakes
00:35:25and doesn't get clear to the back of the field and have to charge
00:35:28through the front of the field, because in a 20 horse field,
00:35:31it's not going to be easy to get around all of them.
00:35:33So we're excited about the draw party and coming up.
00:35:36And hopefully we catch a good number there.
00:35:40Dennis, I've got two questions for you, and I have to start with where are you?
00:35:45That looks absolutely fabulous behind you.
00:35:48We need a little tour of exactly where you are.
00:35:51I'm actually in my car barn.
00:35:52I collect old Chevrolet cars.
00:35:55It's a convertible collection.
00:35:56And I've got every year from 1912 to 1975,
00:36:00the years that the Chevrolet made convertibles is I started out with just a few
00:36:04and I just kept adding a few and now I'm up to 192 in this facility.
00:36:09Wow. What's your favorite?
00:36:11Probably these Copos.
00:36:13They're Yanko Camaros.
00:36:16And and then at the back of me, there's sets of what's called a future liner.
00:36:20GM only made 12 of them back in the 30s.
00:36:23And they went around and displayed.
00:36:26They put a big tent up and they put these 12 big buses around the tent
00:36:29and they got the public in and that's how they sold cars.
00:36:32And then TV came along in the early 40s and that they parked these buses.
00:36:36So I found one and it's refurbished and all back up to good standards.
00:36:42Do you drive any of them around?
00:36:44Oh, I try to drive every car once every three years.
00:36:49It's a process getting these all running.
00:36:51And keeping the fuel from going old.
00:36:54Well, I have a couple of guys that take care of them for me.
00:36:57So correct me if I'm wrong.
00:36:59Yeah, I've got a question here.
00:37:00So so you're in Altoona, Iowa, correct?
00:37:02That's where your office is.
00:37:04Actually, Ankeny, Iowa.
00:37:06Ankeny, Iowa.
00:37:07All right. Altoona is where Prairie Meadows is.
00:37:09OK, so Ankeny, Iowa, where you've got your car collection
00:37:13and you're also a golf aficionado and you also have a golf course
00:37:17adjacent to your office, correct?
00:37:20Right outside of this facility is my golf course. Yes.
00:37:23We're living the life.
00:37:25Yeah, I got a lot of a lot of expensive habits.
00:37:28Horse racing being one of them.
00:37:30I'm certainly coming to visit golf and fast cars.
00:37:33I like the question on catching freedom.
00:37:36If you could map out a trip for catching freedom in the Derby,
00:37:40you said he makes some mistakes.
00:37:42What are the mistakes he does not need to make?
00:37:45You know, he gets out of the gate fine and then he slows down a little bit
00:37:48and then and then he then he's got a burst.
00:37:51That's unbelievable.
00:37:52He's bred right to get the distance.
00:37:54He's we've loved his breeding all along.
00:37:57When we went to the sale a couple of years ago, I said, I want a constitution.
00:38:01I love that horse.
00:38:02It's out of a tappet.
00:38:04And so we found a good mare that was moused up in the Constitution.
00:38:07And quite often you said of the oxen and these go way north
00:38:10of what I want to spend on horses.
00:38:11We tried to say I put them on a budget and we go past it every year.
00:38:15But anyway, we we search them out pretty good.
00:38:19I got seven people on my team that helped me search out the horses.
00:38:24And Dennis, as we sit here, what, three and a half weeks
00:38:27or less than three weeks to come to Kentucky Derby,
00:38:29do you consider catching freedom your best chance yet?
00:38:33You know, even better than last year with Angel of Empire.
00:38:35You know, actually, I do.
00:38:36We're actually 19 days away.
00:38:38I don't sleep a lot at night thinking about the Derby.
00:38:41But we're he's actually done.
00:38:44He's got a lot of speed.
00:38:46He just sees and not slow down right off the bat, because in with 19
00:38:51other horses out there, it's hard to get through that field.
00:38:54As our angel, the empire had trouble last year
00:38:56getting making the move at the right time.
00:38:59So we kind of want a outside post, not clear outside.
00:39:03Ideally, I'd like to draw somewhere between six and 15.
00:39:07But that'll be in a couple of weeks.
00:39:10That's a Saturday drawing.
00:39:11So that that would be our ideal so that he doesn't get trapped
00:39:15in behind a whole bunch of horses, have to go completely wide around them.
00:39:18That's the furthest way, obviously, around the racetrack.
00:39:22So, Dennis, you first got introduced to horse ownership
00:39:25through your son-in-law, Jason Luce, and a claiming horse
00:39:28at your hometown, Prairie Meadows there.
00:39:31What about the sport at that point really hooked you into it
00:39:35and made you want to progress the way you've progressed?
00:39:38We started out with at Prairie Meadows with a couple of horses,
00:39:42and then we bought into this horse called Miss Macy Sue.
00:39:46It spoiled me.
00:39:47It kept going around the country, wing races.
00:39:49And today it's a mare and it's kicked off a lot of good babies.
00:39:53Not this time.
00:39:54Liam's Matt and many others.
00:39:57And we I'm actually going to see it right ahead of the Derby.
00:40:00I'd like to get out there once or twice a year to take a look.
00:40:03We keep them in Kentucky.
00:40:04Iowa's got a lot of ice in the winter, so I would love to have them right next to me.
00:40:07But Kentucky is where you want to be with the horses.
00:40:10And what a cool mare she has been.
00:40:12Like, I can go back in time.
00:40:15I remember her with Kelly Von Hemel.
00:40:17I remember Perry Compton.
00:40:18It took her a while to break a maiden.
00:40:20I remember when Perry, one of my favorite riders.
00:40:23That's a throwback old school.
00:40:24Randy, you probably know Perry, too, don't you?
00:40:26Right. I do. I do. I do.
00:40:28Yeah. So Perry was one of these.
00:40:30He's about six foot tall.
00:40:32I don't think he ate since 1962 or something.
00:40:35Right. Just a cool guy.
00:40:38I might have even worked at once for Kelly Von Hemel.
00:40:41And I just followed her throughout her racing career.
00:40:44And then lo and behold, we're looking at horses by Liam's map and not this time.
00:40:49I mean, how cool is that for you to be involved off the bat with a mare like that?
00:40:55Oh, man, it's unbelievable.
00:40:57I don't know how you could have got a better mare.
00:40:59And this horse is a real friendly horse.
00:41:01It's really it's like our pet.
00:41:03It's very nice.
00:41:05And the whole thing, I got my whole family involved in this.
00:41:08Every one of them are very keen on this derby.
00:41:10All the girls are already got their dresses picked out and their hats picked out.
00:41:15It's a whole bringing the whole family over for the derby.
00:41:18We're very excited about it.
00:41:20Dennis, let's talk about not this time.
00:41:22I guess it's sort of a two ways of looking at it.
00:41:25The glass is half empty is that he didn't really get to have a full career
00:41:28after getting injured after the is a two year old after the breeders.
00:41:32Yes. Glass is half full because he's won.
00:41:35Hell of a sire stands for a ton of money.
00:41:38And I understand you still own 50 percent of them.
00:41:40Yeah, we still own.
00:41:41It was a 52
00:41:43circuit or 52 share.
00:41:45And we still own the majority of that shares of that.
00:41:49And he just keeps an eye kept getting off good runners.
00:41:52And so looking back, I wish I had to get all of them.
00:41:54But anyway, if you don't take some money off the table,
00:41:57once in a while, this work can get very expensive.
00:42:01Well, let me ask you this.
00:42:02I mean, you talk about how expensive it can be.
00:42:05Is just having this sire alone enough to put you in the black?
00:42:08I imagine it is. Right. It is. It is.
00:42:10Yes. Especially this year.
00:42:11Now that the stud fee is raised to one hundred and fifty thousand.
00:42:14It's definitely we're paying back all the years
00:42:17I've borrowed from my personal to put in the horse business.
00:42:21Well, one hundred and fifty thousand.
00:42:22If you breed them to 200 mares, that's 30 million a year.
00:42:25If you own half, that's 15 million a year.
00:42:27That'll pay for a lot of those bills.
00:42:29We recouped in one year.
00:42:31Yeah, yeah, we recouped in one year.
00:42:35So that's sort of the cheat code, I think, to making money
00:42:38and thoroughbred ownership, so to speak, is to find a stallion
00:42:42that is that is that well received and is that successful.
00:42:46But most owners will sell 100 percent
00:42:50because you had to have some good offers for him from from selling.
00:42:53We definitely have we we had him fighting over him.
00:42:56Why did you decide to hang on to 50 percent?
00:42:59What was your strategy?
00:43:01What do you think?
00:43:01You know, I really didn't even want to sell them.
00:43:04But when you go to the auction and any more, the auctions are very expensive
00:43:08to buy thoroughbreds and there's a lot of teaming up going on.
00:43:11And I mainly kind of keep our own with the exception of a few partners
00:43:15along the way.
00:43:16But anyway, we decided that it came
00:43:19just got recouped some of the money that I'd spent through the years
00:43:22would be the answer.
00:43:23So that's why we put just half of them up for sale.
00:43:27It didn't have anything to do with the fact
00:43:29that you let Liam's map go and you name this horse not this time
00:43:33because of that, that you wanted to be still in with a piece of him.
00:43:37And look, look how he's turned out.
00:43:39I mean, we've bought a couple of not this time.
00:43:41So I'm at OBS right now.
00:43:43And we've been looking at a lot of them like he is an A-plus stallion.
00:43:47Yeah. Yeah, that that's exactly right.
00:43:50After the we were very happy when we sold Liam's math for 800,000.
00:43:54My son in law and me were jumping up and down, high fiving each other.
00:43:58Well, then he went on to win over three million racing.
00:44:00And then they end up in a stallion farm somewhere around 11 million.
00:44:03And he's kicking off some very nice horses right now.
00:44:06So we said, we're not selling the next one, not this time.
00:44:09So that's where that name came around.
00:44:12Dennis, I take it when you and your team go to the sales,
00:44:14the primary goal is to win the Kentucky Derby.
00:44:17You don't buy many fillies.
00:44:18What what do your advisors tell you?
00:44:21What did they look for?
00:44:22What are the little secrets to finding a horse
00:44:25that can develop into a top three year old like you have with so many?
00:44:28We start out about a month prior to the auctions
00:44:30with a guy searching all the bloodlines.
00:44:33And then a we move from that.
00:44:35And when we I got a team of people, Barry from Ocala,
00:44:40it does a very good job. And he picked up.
00:44:45I'm trying to think of his last name right now, but I'm just on one of that.
00:44:49Yes, it is. Yes.
00:44:51He's got a team of people with them that get into the auctions
00:44:54even prior to them getting at Keeneland and going out
00:44:58and checking with the barns and looking them over.
00:45:00And they do a terrific job.
00:45:01So when I get there, we're broke down to about 300 horses,
00:45:05which is still a lot to look at.
00:45:07And and and my son in law does a great job
00:45:10of helping us pick them out, Jason Looch.
00:45:13And he then we start and then we then lots of times
00:45:16you get this list of horses you want to build and then they go in.
00:45:19They go way north of what you want to spend.
00:45:21So we have to try to regroup and say, OK, now let's make a run at this one.
00:45:25But when we went to that sale two years ago, I said, I want a constitution.
00:45:29I'm coming home with a constitution.
00:45:31I love that horse.
00:45:32I like like the bloodline.
00:45:35And we found one that had a good mare.
00:45:37And then then finding names for these horses has always been a real challenge.
00:45:43So I challenged my office over there.
00:45:44I gave him the name of the mother
00:45:46of the horse.
00:45:49And we catch my drift.
00:45:52I was someone with the name there.
00:45:54Catch my drift.
00:45:54And then constitution.
00:45:56That's where the word freedom came from.
00:45:58America's got a lot of freedom.
00:46:00And so we named it.
00:46:01I actually love this name of this horse this year.
00:46:04So, Dennis, have you allowed yourself to dream yet?
00:46:06What it might be like after coming close so many times to be standing
00:46:10in that winner's circle come first Saturday in May?
00:46:14Well, there's a I guess there's a special room in Churchill.
00:46:17I haven't been to it yet that they take once you win it.
00:46:20So I couldn't be happier to drink that horse with the flowers
00:46:24and just the excitement of just getting to the derby is a big honor.
00:46:28And with all the things.
00:46:30And so we're very blessed to have one of the contenders that are,
00:46:34I think, got a good chance this year.
00:46:35So.
00:46:37So, Dennis, you've been tremendously successful in business,
00:46:40the agricultural chemicals business, totally a self-made man.
00:46:44And now you've progressed in short order from dabbling
00:46:47with Iowa breads and claiming horses of Prairie Meadows
00:46:50all the way to the top of the game.
00:46:51So I got two questions for you.
00:46:53Number one, what has surprised you the most about the thoroughbred sport?
00:46:58It it's a lot of there's a lot of high lows in this business.
00:47:02We've been on both sides of that side.
00:47:04We've had them get injured like like not this time.
00:47:07We thought it had a great running here.
00:47:08We had another one named Dennis moment that came out of the gates
00:47:11at the Breeders' Cup and went down clear down to a shelf
00:47:14and then got back up and never really run well after that.
00:47:17And then then we've had big time success stories.
00:47:20When you go to these prep races and you get qualified for the derby,
00:47:23there's a lot of excitement there.
00:47:24And we.
00:47:26Very happy with that this year.
00:47:28And and with all your experience now at the top level
00:47:33breeding, owning, what would you like to see changed?
00:47:37And, you know, what could be improved?
00:47:39There's a lot of discussion around this ISIS on all the things.
00:47:43And, you know, nobody likes change in this business.
00:47:46But I think the industry probably needed some of that.
00:47:49And so I think the regulations, once that all settles down,
00:47:54will be good for the industry.
00:47:56And the I guess the other thing is,
00:48:01you know, it's getting very expensive to stay in the thoroughbred.
00:48:03Once you you don't see a lot of single people going out buying horses anymore.
00:48:08Most of it is these groups or the big farms and stuff.
00:48:12It's not a cheap game to get into anymore.
00:48:14So anyway, change would be I don't know how you would change that,
00:48:18because obviously if I'm a seller, I want the highest price
00:48:21I can get out of my horse, too.
00:48:23So, Dennis, let's change sports for a minute.
00:48:26You're from Iowa.
00:48:27What did you make of the Caitlin Clark phenomenon?
00:48:29Oh, I love that girl.
00:48:31She was out here playing on my golf course as a charity.
00:48:34And she's a pretty good golfer, actually.
00:48:37That's probably not surprising because she's unbelievable.
00:48:40She's been unbelievable for the sport.
00:48:42And not only Iowa, I think the whole United States.
00:48:45She's got people watching the ladies basketball.
00:48:48And then I watched the draft last night.
00:48:50She went to the first one.
00:48:51So I couldn't be prouder of that girl.
00:48:54She's right, right close to us here where her hometown is.
00:49:00Dennis, that was fabulous. Thank you.
00:49:02Thank you guys very much.
00:49:03I'm excited to see you all over there at the Derby Week.
00:49:05All right. Good luck to you.
00:49:07All right. Thank you.
00:49:08As this week's Green Group guest of the week, Dennis Albaugh
00:49:11will receive a free one hour tax consultation with the Green Group.
00:49:16Well, he may already use the Green Group, for all we know.
00:49:18For more information on how the Green Group can save you money on taxes,
00:49:21visit www.greenco.com.
00:49:24Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:49:30The Green Group can help.
00:49:31There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders and horsemen
00:49:35select the Green Group as their tax advisors.
00:49:37They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:49:41Over the past 40 years, the Green Group founder, Len Green,
00:49:44has owned and bred some of the best racehorses in the history of the sport,
00:49:49like Eclipse Award winning champions Jay Walk and Wonder Wheel.
00:49:53His DJ stable competes at the highest level
00:49:55and has received the game's most prestigious honors.
00:49:58Len Green's in-depth, hands-on industry knowledge,
00:50:01combined with cutting edge tax saving strategies,
00:50:04has produced positive results for his clientele and has made the Green Group
00:50:08the top rated accounting and tax firm in the thoroughbred business.
00:50:12For a confidential and complimentary consultation,
00:50:15contact us at 732-634-5100
00:50:19or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:50:24The Green Group, proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:50:49I talked earlier about one of our new sponsors or one of our old sponsors
00:50:53in Pleasant Acres, I was talking about Chess Chief.
00:50:56And earlier today, I managed to hunt down Christine Jones,
00:51:00who is the stallion director at Pleasant Acres to find out just who do they have.
00:51:06So, Christine, we're here at OBS.
00:51:08Who have you got? Who is it?
00:51:10I'm going to tell you.
00:51:11I'm going to tell you.
00:51:12I'm going to tell you.
00:51:13I'm going to tell you.
00:51:14I'm going to tell you.
00:51:15I'm going to tell you.
00:51:16I'm going to tell you.
00:51:17I'm going to tell you.
00:51:18Who have you got?
00:51:19Who have you got standing at Pleasant Acres?
00:51:21Well, I'm very proud to say that we have 13 stallions in all
00:51:25and each of them is very important to us for different reasons, obviously.
00:51:30But I'd just like to say a couple of things in regard to.
00:51:34Well, first of all, let's talk about Magic on Tap.
00:51:36He has his first foals this year and they are absolutely terrific.
00:51:40I couldn't ask for a better crop for his first group of progeny.
00:51:46So that's helping me in my booking department as well.
00:51:49So that's always a plus.
00:51:51Then we can move on to our new big guy, Verifying.
00:51:56The first son of Justify to stand in Florida.
00:51:59The only one of two that are standing in the United States.
00:52:04So that brings us just a whole nother
00:52:09level of where we're trying to go.
00:52:11And I love Verifying.
00:52:13I watched him run.
00:52:14He's a half to that wonderful, wonderful man, Midnight Bisou, right?
00:52:19Yes, that's correct.
00:52:20That's correct.
00:52:21It's trained by Jeff Bloom, who also is in the partnership
00:52:26of people on this spectacular young stallion.
00:52:31What can you tell me about Simplification?
00:52:33Is he the hometown hero?
00:52:34Simplification is definitely our hometown hero.
00:52:38He is the Florida horse of the year.
00:52:42And I'm happy to tell you that the owner of Simplification
00:52:46is supporting him in every way possible, which certainly helps me a lot.
00:52:51It's nice to know that they are bringing between 25 and 30 mares to him themself.
00:52:58So the outside people
00:53:00will be able to count on a lot of support from from them in the ring.
00:53:05Wishing you the best of luck.
00:53:06It's a fabulous lineup.
00:53:07It really, really is.
00:53:08So what would you tell people to get them out to Pleasant Acres
00:53:11to come and see your stallions?
00:53:13Well, I would just say that I invite everyone to come out and visit us,
00:53:18whether you are going to buy something this year or not.
00:53:21We count on our breeders.
00:53:23If we do not have our breeders, we don't have anything.
00:53:26So my thanks to you.
00:53:28Brilliant, thanks.
00:53:30Many thanks to Christine Jones.
00:53:32And yes, we'll be talking a lot more about all these fantastic
00:53:35stallions standing at Pleasant Acres.
00:53:38Well, guys, let's go out to excuse me, Hot Springs, Arkansas,
00:53:42where there was another big weekend of racing at Oakland Park
00:53:45with the Apple Blossom and the Count Fleet and Adair Manor
00:53:49got the job done to win the Apple Blossom for trainer Bob Baffert.
00:53:53I talked about how good
00:53:56Applebee's record is in the US period.
00:53:58How about Baffert at Oakland?
00:54:0040 for 93 in his career, 43 percent with 32 stakes winners.
00:54:06A lot of those are three year old's horses on the way to the Kentucky Derby.
00:54:09But Bob Baffert has not approved.
00:54:11He's not a one trick pony.
00:54:12He has an older mayor who's very, very good.
00:54:15And she wins this race.
00:54:16And I can't wait till she meets up somewhere with Idiomatic,
00:54:20which certainly has to happen.
00:54:22But Baffert, Adair Manor and Juan Hernandez get into the winner's circle.
00:54:27Wet paint was second choice for Randy's favorite stable
00:54:30with his Godolphin colors on today.
00:54:32And she didn't do much running at all.
00:54:34No, she didn't.
00:54:36She did not.
00:54:37I don't think she really had much of an excuse.
00:54:39But I think we should let Randy go first in this one, because
00:54:43my my first question to you, Randy, you have an awful lot of favorite horses.
00:54:46I mean,
00:54:49two fails.
00:54:50We're talking about Adair Manor.
00:54:52We're talking about Dermasota Gaki.
00:54:54Like when you were a kid,
00:54:57favorite movie stars that hung on your walls
00:54:59and your walls were just full of all your favorites
00:55:02because you got a lot of favorite horses.
00:55:03You are racing's number one fan right now.
00:55:06You left out.
00:55:07You left out Senor Buscador.
00:55:09Oh, yeah.
00:55:11You can't leave out.
00:55:12You can't leave out the Dubai World Cup winner, Senor Buscador.
00:55:16I'm taking a tally.
00:55:18Look, I like horses like Adair Manor.
00:55:20I mean, I like horses that just like seize control of a race right away,
00:55:25like she did in the Apple Blossom
00:55:27and like another horse that we'll talk about in just a second.
00:55:29They won the count fleet.
00:55:31You know, Adair Manor did try Idiomatic last fall in the Breeders' Cup Distaff.
00:55:37She couldn't make the early lead in a very fast paced race
00:55:39that Idiomatic was a part of.
00:55:41And even though it was at Santa Anita,
00:55:43she still kind of faded a little bit and finished seventh.
00:55:45Got beat three lengths in there.
00:55:47But in the Apple Blossom, Adair Manor was three to five.
00:55:51She was dominant on paper and she ran a heck of a race to win it.
00:55:55And speaking of Senor Buscador,
00:56:01her stablemate, his stablemate, Flying Connection in the barn
00:56:05of trainer Todd Pincher, ran an outstanding race to finish second
00:56:08in the Apple Blossom behind Adair Manor because she's a horse
00:56:12that normally, based on her sunline form, is up close to the pace.
00:56:15And she was shuffled back, pinched back at the start to last and decided last.
00:56:21And yet she still managed to work her way through the field
00:56:24and finish a solid second behind Adair Manor.
00:56:27But look, it was all about Baffert and Juan Hernandez.
00:56:30And going wire to wire again with Adair Manor.
00:56:34Well, picking up his second Apple Blossom,
00:56:36his first one was all the way back in 2012 with Plum Pretty.
00:56:40So good to see him back in the win column.
00:56:42I'm at OBS. Adair Manor was sold in the June sale for $340,000.
00:56:48Julie Davies, very, very happy about that.
00:56:51But my biggest question is if she faces Idiomatic, who's bigger?
00:56:56Because the pair of them are probably both at least 17 hands.
00:57:01We discussed that at the Breeders' Cup last year prior to the Distaff,
00:57:06and it just depends on which camp you're in.
00:57:08Baffert Camp believes that Adair Manor is bigger.
00:57:11The Bill Mott or the Brad Cox camp, the Judd Mott camp,
00:57:15believes that Idiomatic is bigger.
00:57:17And we actually pitched the idea to both barns of getting the horses together
00:57:22side by side.
00:57:24But before the Breeders' Cup, that was just asking a little bit too much.
00:57:27Maybe we'll try that at some point in the future.
00:57:29Put the tape measure on.
00:57:31Yeah, I'll just run around with my tape measure.
00:57:32We should have a wager.
00:57:33Oh, by the way, what are we sending me?
00:57:37That's right, Randi.
00:57:38A bottle of some sort.
00:57:40A bottle of... What was that from?
00:57:43Yeah, yes, you are correct.
00:57:46Just FYI, outran Impel.
00:57:49Neither won, but you were right.
00:57:50Just FYI, I was closer to winning than Impel was.
00:57:53And so, yes, I owe you your choice of a bottle of spirits.
00:58:00Well, didn't you say Opus One?
00:58:01I'll take Opus One. I'm good with that.
00:58:05We'll talk about that.
00:58:06We'll talk about that.
00:58:09Randi, you can't get out of this.
00:58:10We have this on tape.
00:58:11No, I'm not trying to get out of it.
00:58:12I'm trying to get out of it.
00:58:15So here's another thing that we don't talk a lot about.
00:58:18Steve Askew is having a fast sprinter.
00:58:21There's just one after another, after a year, after year, after year.
00:58:25And Skelly, who won the Count Fleet, has now won eight straight in the U.S.,
00:58:29did get beat in Saudi Arabia, ran second.
00:58:32But again, of such an overpowering performance,
00:58:35he was off a step slow and then rushed up into a 21-2 first quarter.
00:58:39It made no difference at all.
00:58:40He was just the fastest horse out there.
00:58:43He was the speed of the speed.
00:58:45And he just ran them off their feet.
00:58:47And once again, the Asmussen camp has perhaps the most talented sprinter
00:58:52in the country.
00:58:52It's amazing how well he does with this kind of horse.
00:58:57It's just an assembly line of these fast rocket ships that he sends out.
00:59:01And the newest kid on the block is Skelly.
00:59:03Zoe?
00:59:05He was cool.
00:59:06And the one thing, and I've said this time and time again about Steve Asmussen,
00:59:10is once his horses get good, he has this incredible ability
00:59:15to keep them good and keep them at an extraordinary level
00:59:20for a long amount of time.
00:59:21Now, he's won nine of 14 starts.
00:59:25What kind of bi-speed figure did he get, Randy?
00:59:28103.
00:59:29103? Do you remember?
00:59:31Coming back from Saudi Arabia.
00:59:33Yeah, close to that.
00:59:35Close to that, yes.
00:59:37But Steve is just amazing, just keeping these horses happy,
00:59:41healthy and winning races at a high level.
00:59:44He was fantastic.
00:59:45He reminds me a lot.
00:59:47I'm sure they're different in appearance and probably different in temperament.
00:59:50But he reminds me a lot of Mottoli,
00:59:53the horse that Asmussen had that won the Breeders' Cup Sprint back in 2019.
00:59:56Mottoli also won the Count Fleet at Oak Lawn.
00:59:59He won nine of his last 10 races,
01:00:03was regularly running super fast buyer speed figures.
01:00:06And right now, I agree with you, Bill.
01:00:08I mean, if the Breeders' Cup Sprint was upcoming, let's say in a month,
01:00:14Skelly would undoubtedly be the favorite for that.
01:00:17It was a long time between now and Breeders' Cup this fall at Del Mar.
01:00:21But right now, he looks to me certainly like the best sprinter in America,
01:00:24at least of the ones that we've seen so far this year.
01:00:26Now, I'm going to ask for what may be an exercise in futility.
01:00:29But there's 19 days to go to the Kentucky Derby
01:00:32from when we are taping this on Tuesday.
01:00:35Given that we have the right to change our minds
01:00:39as much as we want right up until post time, I want to pin everybody down.
01:00:43Who's your pick to win the Kentucky Derby?
01:00:46And who's your long shot pick?
01:00:47Or, you know, not let's say who's your pick beyond Sierra Leone and fierceness?
01:00:52So I'll start it off.
01:00:53I'm a big Sierra Leone guy.
01:00:55I've been on record thinking that his bluegrass was just fantastic.
01:00:59He will be my pick.
01:01:00My other horse to watch out for will be just a touch.
01:01:04Second in the Gotham, second in the bluegrass.
01:01:06He's had three lifetime starts.
01:01:08And just like Randy was talking about, you know, with so little racing,
01:01:12how much are these horses going to improve and trying to project forward?
01:01:16Trained by Brad Cox, a horse that seems to just be getting it together.
01:01:20I think he's one of those candidates that could improve quite a bit in the Derby.
01:01:23He's not going to be 50 to one, but he's not going to be the favorite either.
01:01:26So I got Sierra Leone and just a touch, Randy.
01:01:30Now, since you appropriately qualify this
01:01:33by saying that we have the right to change our minds multiple times,
01:01:36if necessary, you know, I'll point out that this will have
01:01:40quite a bit to do with postposition.
01:01:42I'm all usually of the mind that postposition is overrated in the Kentucky Derby.
01:01:48I really think it is.
01:01:49But when it pertains to speed to horses
01:01:53and where they draw in relation to other speed horses,
01:01:57I think postposition can play a very important role, especially in a 20 horse field.
01:02:01So you don't want to overthink it.
01:02:05I tried to overthink it with American Pharaoh back in 2015,
01:02:09coming up to the Kentucky Derby, because I looked at the race
01:02:12and I correctly handicapped that
01:02:17American Pharaoh was going to be farther back
01:02:19than he had been at any point in his career.
01:02:22I correctly handicapped that American Pharaoh would be wide,
01:02:26probably around both turns to boot.
01:02:29And yet he won anyway. Right.
01:02:33So postposition, so I don't want to overthink it is my point here.
01:02:38And if all the horses, if all the leading contenders run their best races.
01:02:43Fierceness wins.
01:02:45Right. And I know he was bothered in the champagne
01:02:47and I know he didn't really run his race in the Holy Bowl,
01:02:50but he was so impressive in the Florida Derby that right now, pending the draw,
01:02:55I don't want to see him down inside of the other speed horses.
01:02:58Then I think he would be he would be my horse.
01:03:01I don't think there's there is some pace in the Derby,
01:03:03but I don't think it's going to be out of control like it was last year
01:03:07when Mage came from the clouds to win.
01:03:09And I agree with you just a touch for a long shot.
01:03:11I think he'll his long shot odds are starting to creep down and down.
01:03:15Right. Becoming a big wise guy horse.
01:03:17I'm guessing right now you're probably looking at somewhere around,
01:03:22you know, ten to one, eleven to one, something like that.
01:03:25But that's that's a nice price.
01:03:29I'm going Sierra Leone.
01:03:30I think there's going to be a pretty good pace up front.
01:03:33And, you know, it's funny, I was talking to Jacob West last night.
01:03:36He was speaking to like Johnny Vee and talking about fierceness.
01:03:40And, you know, can he handle the Derby and all this kind of stuff?
01:03:44And, you know, you have to be on the lead.
01:03:47And that doesn't always happen.
01:03:49And Johnny Vee was like, always dreaming the Dina spirit authentic.
01:03:54They all went to the lead and they won.
01:03:56And he is one of them that's going to do the same thing
01:03:58with the same rider in Johnny Vee.
01:04:00He will go forward no matter what.
01:04:03I like Sierra Leone.
01:04:04I'm scared about fierceness.
01:04:06As far as a long shot.
01:04:08You know, initially I threw on Forever Young,
01:04:11but I'm not sure he's going to be a long shot
01:04:13because he's going to take so much Japanese money.
01:04:16Even if we don't bet him over here, he will be one of the shorter priced horses.
01:04:21And I love the way he's trained at Churchill Downs.
01:04:24So I'm going to throw in domestic products.
01:04:26He's a little green.
01:04:28I liked his race in the Tampa Bay Derby.
01:04:30He's just winning.
01:04:31He's just he's just starting to come around.
01:04:34He's figuring things out.
01:04:35I mean, can Chad Brown run 1-2?
01:04:38Probably not.
01:04:39But yeah, that's my long shot.
01:04:41Oh, I wouldn't put anything past Chad Brown.
01:04:44Of course he can be 1-2.
01:04:45If it's the Diana Handicap every year, he's going to be 1-2-3-4.
01:04:49So why can't he run 1-2 in the Derby?
01:04:51But some good insights there, Zoe. Thank you.
01:04:54The TDM Writer's Room is brought to you by my bosses at XBTV.
01:04:59The XBTV Work of the Week is Arabian Night.
01:05:02Now, don't change the channel.
01:05:04He did literally work in 38 flat.
01:05:06You're not seeing things.
01:05:08It was his first work since finishing fourth in the 2023
01:05:11Breeders' Cup Classic to wider barriers, a three to one second choice.
01:05:15He's back on the work tab working in 38 in company.
01:05:20Arabian Night won last year's Southwest Stakes and Grade One Pacific Classic.
01:05:23He was third in the Haskell.
01:05:25Bob said he is very happy to have Arabian Night back on the work tab.
01:05:29And if you watch him come down the lane, he's on the outside there
01:05:32and he looks like a happy, happy horse.
01:05:35Not sure maybe Bob was quite that happy because 38 is an awful slow time
01:05:40for one of Bob's runners, especially one as good as him.
01:05:43But it looks like he's coming back on just the right track.
01:05:46We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:06:02XBTV.
01:06:22All the thrills.
01:06:26Fraction of the bills.
01:06:28Experience the power of the partnership.
01:06:36Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:06:44West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:06:48Visit westpointtv.com.
01:06:51And the TD and Riders Room is also brought to you by our friends at West Point Thoroughbreds,
01:06:55which have been knocking on the door at Canelon with graded stakes placings in the Transylvania,
01:07:00the Madison, the Maker's Mark Mile.
01:07:02And then on Sunday, boom, four-year-old Colt Ohana Honor, a son of Honor Code, trained
01:07:08by Shug McGahee, went wire-to-wire in a second-level mile-and-a-half turf allowance to win by a
01:07:12widening five-and-three-quarters length.
01:07:15You'll probably see Ohana Honor next, undoubtedly, in a stakes race somewhere.
01:07:21West Point has also been active at this week's OBS April sale, where last year it acquired
01:07:25Carson's Run, who went on to win the grade one summer stakes at Woodbine.
01:07:30OBS is so proud of Carson's Run that that horse is now gracing the cover of the April
01:07:37sales catalogs.
01:07:38If you want to join a West Point partnership and be vaulted into the world of instant camaraderie,
01:07:43you can learn more at westpointtv.com.
01:07:52Well, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:07:56I want to thank my partners, Randy Moss and Zoe Cadman.
01:07:59Our editors are Leah LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson, and our producers are Katie Petruniak and
01:08:05Anthony LaRocca.
01:08:06Where's, where's Lucy?
01:08:08She's MIA.
01:08:09I was actually going to give her, she went to the groomer yesterday.
01:08:11She looked so pretty.
01:08:12I was going to give her her star moment here, but there must be food upstairs.
01:08:18My wife must have something going on up there with food.
01:08:21All right.
01:08:22Randy, it's part of your job.
01:08:23That's part why we pay you the big bucks on this podcast.
01:08:26Lucy's the biggest, Lucy's the biggest star we have.
01:08:29We need her involved in this.
01:08:31Okay.
01:08:32Lucy and rabbit holes are what I'm most looking for.
01:08:35All right.
01:08:36Thanks everybody for tuning us in and listening.
01:08:38Have a great weekend of racing.
01:08:40We'll talk to you next week.
01:08:41Cheers.
01:08:47Transcribed by https://otter.ai