Greg Bedard and Nick Cattles discuss the latest in the Patriots head coaching search, including today's interview with Mike Vrabel and tomorrow's scheduled meeting with Ben Johnson. Just how likely is Mike Vrabel to become New England's next head coach? Is it all but a done deal? Would he bring on Josh McDaniels? Tune in for the latest as Robert Kraft looks to begin a new era in New England.
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00:00This is the Gregg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cavins.
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01:25Got through all of that in about a minute. All right, let's get to the headlines, Gregg.
01:28Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. A lot of stuff going on here.
01:32All right. So I live in Foxborough. I'm about roughly 10, 15 minutes away from the stadium,
01:38which means I'm 10, 15 minutes away from Mike Vrabel because Vrabel is at Gillette today.
01:43He's interviewing for the head coaching job.
01:45I just wanted to ask you because I don't know how much you might know here,
01:50but I thought it would be interesting to ask you what goes on in these meetings
01:55because we always hear about this guy's interviewing, that guy's interviewing.
01:58This is going to be in person. This is via Zoom.
02:01What's the atmosphere in these meetings? Is it the guy getting peppered?
02:06Is Vrabel getting peppered with questions? Is Vrabel kind of setting out his philosophy?
02:11What do these look and sound like, Gregg, from what you know?
02:14Well, normally, and of course, this is different with Mike Vrabel because he's been there maybe.
02:22Well, I mean, he was just there last year for the Hall of Fame ceremony.
02:26So I'm sure he got a tour. A lot of times this is it's there's a lot of touring.
02:33There's a lot of meeting of different people depends on the organization, how it's set up.
02:37You know, team president, GM, you know, what have you.
02:43I have a feeling like with Vrabel, they'll probably show him the plans for the new football facility.
02:50You know, I think I think most of it will be a series of probably one big meeting between the Crafts,
02:59Elliott Wolfe, probably Robin Glazer is going to be in on the meeting with Mike.
03:04And I think they'll they'll have normally you have stock question and answers that you that you ask all the prospects so that you can compare them.
03:14So I think a lot of it, I think in this case, I think a lot of it is going to be Vrabel talking to, you know, the Crafts,
03:24questioning the Crafts and Wolfe about, you know, where they are, how dedicated are they?
03:30How much money are they going to put out? How staffing?
03:36How is that going to work? How is it going to work with personnel? You know, all that stuff.
03:42So I I would assume it's usually these things last, you know, four to eight hours,
03:50depending on the depth and how much you have to how much you have to learn about an organization.
03:54Like I said, in this case, with Mike's familiarity with the Patriots, I don't think it needs to be that long.
04:01I think possibly, wink, wink, there might have already been some discussions about a lot of this stuff.
04:09So this might be just a formality in my mind to, you know, Vrabel being the next Patriots head coach.
04:18It's got to be so awkward because I don't know if you've ever been involved with a job interview, so to speak,
04:23where you you know that you know you're the favorite.
04:27It's like I haven't I haven't walked into an office knowing like I was the guy.
04:34It's got to be somewhat awkward. It's like it's like Vrabel walking and they just end up talking about life.
04:40And they're just like, oh, so how are you doing, Bob? And, you know, how's it going, John?
04:44How are you guys? You know, how's it hanging? How's that? How are you feeling?
04:47And then like, oh, how's the weather been like if they've already talked about some of the major components of what a deal would look like?
04:53It just it like you said, it could be a formality. It's just funny to me how that could go.
04:59It's like a it's like a Seinfeld episode. All right. Yeah.
05:03So let me ask you this. And this is I don't send these questions before the podcast because Greg usually zips me the format about 10 minutes before we start.
05:13So, yeah, so here's I don't know if you could answer this, but you just went through a couple of things that Vrabel would be asking the crafts about.
05:22If you had the top three things that you think Vrabel wants addressed in this meeting, maybe you rank them one to three.
05:28Maybe you just give me the three top items on his list.
05:31What do you think Vrabel needs to hear from the crafts to make sure that he feels good about this, this opening?
05:41I would say. I would say number one would be the ability to get alignment with personnel,
05:50whether that's Elliott Wolf or Mike Vrabel brings in his own personnel guy like a Ryan Cowden, something like that.
05:59Is that going to be an issue? Because I think Vrabel can say, well, you know, the Jets and the Bears said that they would let me do whatever they want.
06:08And, you know, so how do you guys feel about this? I think that's number one.
06:12I think number two is. I would say. The level of financial commitment to building out a first class modern NFL program,
06:25I think that I think that Vrabel from what I hear, I think he learned a lot from his year being around the Cleveland Browns.
06:33And, you know, that that's a very different sort of front office than anything that they've had here with the involvement of analytics and all that stuff.
06:45And I would say. The third thing that he'd want to hear or would be a priority for him.
06:55It's a good question. I mean, I guess you could group in spending on players with the with the second part, basically funding a modern NFL sort of unit.
07:14Because I think they would give them like I mean, what are they going to stand in his way about assistant coaches?
07:22I don't know what the third thing would be. I mean, I guess I guess money and length of contract.
07:27Yeah. Not that I'm not not not that I think that Vrabel has any fear.
07:32I'm sure he has the utmost confidence in himself and that he's going to last for a while.
07:39But I you know, I he's probably still a little bit stung by what happened in Tennessee.
07:43And I think he just, you know, getting that longevity with the contract and the money.
07:49I also think that's a formality, but I'm sure that's that's up there.
07:53But I think I think his biggest thing will be alignment.
07:57Yeah. Usually when this when this kind of thing happens, when you're negotiating from from my experience and Greg, I don't know if you've had a similar experience like the money part of it.
08:07Like this to me is it's not like you said, an introductory meeting.
08:11These guys know each other. They know each other very well.
08:14Agents talk back and forth happens.
08:17I'm sure Vrabel before he walks into the office today has a pretty good idea as far as what the money is going to look like.
08:23So as far as contractual stuff, it might be, you know, I don't know, guarantees.
08:29And how can the crafts get out of the contract?
08:31How could Mike get out? There could be some details within that.
08:34But the bigger picture of, let's say, you know, Vrabel wants 20 million a year.
08:38Let's just throw it out there. He knows he knows his agent has told him where the Patriots are at.
08:44He understands the Patriots are at like 17 and he wants 20.
08:47He knows that before walking in.
08:49I do want to ask you this.
08:51So I've been keeping an eye on it over the last 12 to 18 hours that there are no interviews set for Vrabel.
09:00Beyond today, nothing official, I think the Saints have requested to talk to him, but he doesn't have anything officially on the docket.
09:10Is that telling like if he doesn't have anything set after today, should that tell us that he's pretty confident he's getting this job or is that reading too much into it?
09:19No, I would think so. I think you're reading that right.
09:24You know, I do think I think it's a combination of I think the early interviews like the Jets and also the Bears.
09:32I do think that that those, you know, in this contract ending before the final week of the season.
09:39I think that was all a sort of leverage ploy by Vrabel to pressure the Crafts, the Patriots specifically to if they are going to make a move with Mayo to make the move.
09:53Obviously, we know now that that did, in fact, happen.
09:58So I think I think in his in his mind, and you got to remember, I mean, the number one thing about when you're when you're a head coaching candidate, the number one thing.
10:08And really, it's the top three things is the owner and the stability and the belief and, you know, letting you go and do your job.
10:17And I think that in all these other circumstances, the Jets in particular, I think the Bears, the way that they've already said they're set up with the team president whose name is escaping me right now.
10:31And then Ryan Poles is the GM, Kevin Warren, Kevin Warren.
10:35Yep.
10:38You know, if you're Mike Vrabel and you got screwed by this is the way he feels, he got screwed by Amy Strunk Adams in Tennessee, that the biggest thing is going to be comfort level with the owners.
10:51And there's there's nobody that he has better comfort than with the Crafts.
10:55And so I think, like I said, I think this is all a formality.
11:00We said it on the earlier pod.
11:02I think that it's just a matter of time before Mike Vrabel is named head coach of this team.
11:06I mean, it could be by the end of the week.
11:08Yeah, more likely it's probably probably early next week, but we'll see.
11:17I was going to ask you if if if Kraft would ever try to force Vrabel's hand to make a choice before he interviews elsewhere.
11:24But again, there's there's no interview set post this this interview here in New England.
11:28And going off of what you just said, I'd imagine that it's OK.
11:33You know, we feel good about this.
11:36Let me ask you before we move on to some other things, some other names.
11:39This interview goes the way we think it goes.
11:45These two sides know what the hell is going on.
11:47They've known probably well before.
11:50And I mean, at least a few days before Mayo was let go that they wanted to go down this road together.
11:55And if they were able to pretty much tie everything up, it'd be done.
11:59Is this a situation, Greg, that you think Robert, at the end of the interview, tells Mike, you're our guy.
12:08Let us get through a couple of other interviews tomorrow.
12:11But you're our guy.
12:13Or do you think Kraft leaves it open ended?
12:18I think if he hasn't already told Vrabel through back channels or what have you, that he's their guy, I think he does say what you're laying out there.
12:29I do think he says, Mike, you're our guy.
12:32Listen, you know, we do want to talk to a couple more people.
12:36Ben Johnson, Aaron Glenn, you know, just to appease people, make this look a little bit better.
12:45But you're our guy.
12:46Go home.
12:47Get packed up.
12:48Get ready to be here on Monday for the press conference and hitting the ground running sort of thing.
12:55Hey, Mike, I can't do a Kraft.
12:57That was awful.
12:58That was awful.
12:59I can't.
13:00I'm not.
13:01See, it's in my head.
13:03I think I can do it.
13:04But pretty much it's like, hey, Mike, pack your shit.
13:07We'll see you on Monday.
13:09That's pretty much the message.
13:11All right.
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14:32All right, Ben Johnson.
14:34Let's jump to him, Greg.
14:36Let's say a calamity happens like happened to Gerard Mayo in that Chargers game.
14:40Let's say a calamity happens during the interview process today.
14:43I don't know what that could be.
14:45Mike Vrabel tells Robert Craft he hates his family.
14:47But let's say something bad happens.
14:50Do you think Ben Johnson's a good enough plan B?
14:56You know, to be completely honest with you, Nick, I'm not really sure.
15:02I haven't really looked into him all that much just because I think this is going a certain way and I don't like to make more work for myself.
15:10But, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm obviously very impressed with his offense.
15:18I'm also very impressed that he didn't just grab the first job that came his way.
15:24And I do think I actually wouldn't be surprised if Ben Johnson returns to Detroit after this whole thing is over again.
15:34All right.
15:35Let me stop.
15:36Let me stop you there.
15:37How many times can a guy be the bell of the ball in a hiring cycle or at least in the top two or three and decide to stay before people go, OK, I'm not going to waste my time interviewing with this dude.
15:51He's had, what, two or three seasons now to be a head coach and he keeps wanting to go back to Detroit.
15:57We're done.
15:58Does that ever happen with Ben Johnson?
16:01I don't think so.
16:02And here's why.
16:03I mean, I don't know all the details about the coaching search last year.
16:09We know where we are right now.
16:10But if I recall correctly, like, I don't think he went very far down the road with anybody.
16:16I don't know if he ever did.
16:18And I know it was rumored that he was the commander's choice, that they thought they had him, the commanders.
16:24But I think he if I remember correctly, I think he pulled himself out before he did the in-person interview.
16:31You know, so I mean, as long as Ben's not wasting people's time, which it doesn't appear to be the case, then I don't think people are going to care.
16:43But I do think I think that Ben is close to some people who have counseled him about the that these being up being a high priced coordinator with a good situation.
17:00Those are really good jobs and not to not to take that for granted.
17:06And so I just wonder, I mean, look, if the Patriots was open for real, I think he definitely would have went down the road for real.
17:17Yeah, he would have gone all out because this I do think this is a really good job between the Crafts, Drake May, the cap space, the draft pick, you know, all that stuff.
17:28I wouldn't I would be surprised if he goes all the way through with the Bears.
17:32But, you know, who knows?
17:33I think there weren't there reports earlier that he wanted the Bears job last year.
17:38If Iver Floos was fired, we'll see if that ends up being the case.
17:43Ben Johnson's an interesting guy.
17:46Like, I think I'd be fine, but I wouldn't be super secure about it.
17:53I look at Brian Flores.
17:57The thing about Johnson, you know, Phil Perry, I don't know.
18:00I don't have sources.
18:01Right.
18:02Greg has the sources.
18:03Phil Perry has sources.
18:04All those guys have.
18:05So I don't have any sources.
18:06OK, but my sources is Greg.
18:09So but from what I heard, Phil Perry say he described Ben Johnson as an introvert.
18:16And that's fascinating to me in this market.
18:19I don't know if that works.
18:21I don't know if that would fly.
18:23And I worry.
18:24I worry about the Adam Gase factor.
18:26Yes.
18:27And James Palmer talked about, you know, how Johnson is like he's so wrapped up in what he does, his job.
18:38And he doesn't like he kind of gets tunnel visioned.
18:42And Perry was talking about this, too.
18:44He's like he's on his laptop.
18:45He's just working.
18:46Right.
18:47He's in the lab, baby.
18:48I'm in the lab.
18:49I'm cooking up something great for this weekend.
18:51Can he extend himself from that?
18:53Can he can he be an overall leader of men?
18:57And I find it interesting because Mike Garofalo, I just pulled this up as you were talking, Greg, because you asked about the Washington thing and what happened.
19:04Now, this is Garofalo.
19:05Maybe some other insiders have different vibes, but here's what Garofalo said about Ben Johnson and his interviews.
19:16This was not only the Washington job, but also the Seattle Seahawks head coaching position.
19:23Johnson was a reported finalist for both.
19:26Here's what Garofalo said.
19:27Quote, I don't think he interviewed particularly well.
19:30I don't think he really bowled people over in the interview process at all.
19:34I've heard that his personality, you know, he's very smart, very bright, great play caller.
19:39But I've heard that personality is kind of not the most gregarious guy.
19:44So that kind of goes into what Phil's saying, which is introverted, you know, in his computer, not running around smacking guys on the ass.
19:55And my question, Greg, about that is.
20:00Dan Campbell is so gregarious, he's so overwhelming when it comes to his personality.
20:07I don't know, like if you're Robert Kraft, if you're an owner, I don't know how you separate what Ben Johnson does as an OC and like how his offense plays and like how those guys have energy and attitude.
20:20How much of that is because of Johnson?
20:22How much of that is because of Campbell?
20:24And if Ben Johnson walks in the room and he sits down, he's like, and I know he's doing a zoom, but if he's over the zoom, he's like, hey, how's it going?
20:32Ben, how do you feel?
20:33I think I can run a great offense.
20:35I've run a great offense in Detroit.
20:37And he's like, you know, awkward and kind of just introvert.
20:41Then you look at that and you go, oh, that's Detroit is because of Dan Campbell.
20:45Like he's he's the personality of that team.
20:48He's the leader of that team.
20:49I don't know if this guy can walk into a room and get my guys fired up.
20:54So I understand people.
20:57And look again, I'd probably be fine with Ben Johnson because most of these guys are unknowns.
21:03I might slide Flores ahead of him, but, you know, you're talking about a lot of guys.
21:08They all have questions about him.
21:09Speaking of that, Aaron Glenn, does he even take the interview?
21:15I bet he doesn't, but I have no inside knowledge on that.
21:19I just think that, you know, it it seems like at least from the reporting, it seems like it took them a little while to get to Aaron Glenn after.
21:28I mean, I didn't wasn't the first day.
21:30It wasn't in Monday that they requested to talk to Ben Johnson.
21:33And then all of a sudden, like the middle of the week, they get around to Aaron Glenn.
21:36Yeah.
21:37Like Sunday night.
21:39Yeah.
21:40Yeah.
21:41It very well could have been as we talked about the, you know, why rush firing Mayo?
21:46Why, Tony, you don't even let him go home after the last game before you fire him.
21:51I mean, that was just breathtaking.
21:53A reason to do that is because you want to get all the the requests out and everything as soon as possible.
22:00Yeah, I would doubt that he'd do it if I mean, I think that he has he has better connections and better chances with like the Saints and the Jets to place that played as a player.
22:12Yeah, I think he ends up in New Orleans.
22:13I think he's going to end up being the Saints guy.
22:15All right.
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23:10Greg, do you care that this process hasn't been necessarily wide ranging as far as a coaching search?
23:19If no, the short answer is no.
23:25And for this reason, if there wasn't a candidate that the crafts were very familiar with, has a great track record, has experience, you know what you're going to get.
23:37If Mike Vrabel wasn't a candidate out there and I don't know, maybe it was in the bag for somebody else, say even like a Brian Flores, then yes, I would feel I would feel worse about it.
23:51But, you know, look, the crafts just went through what they did with Belichick.
23:56They did the Mayo thing.
23:58They did. And, you know, he had no experience.
24:00He was in over his head.
24:02They've gone four and 13 consecutive years.
24:05I mean, you could hear the frustration when when Kraft talked about it in the press conference and he said, you know, I didn't want to go through this again.
24:13And basically anybody else other than Mike Vrabel, you're inviting the possibility of four and 13 again because you just don't know what you're going to get with Vrabel.
24:24You know what you're going to get. And he's I think I think he has an absurdly high floor.
24:31I also think he has a high ceiling.
24:32But even if you disagree with that, you know, Vrabel knows how to win games.
24:38He knows how to keep teams competitive, even if they're not the most talented team.
24:42So, you know, and I know I don't know if we talked about the Rooney rule on Tuesday, but, you know, we did.
24:49Yeah, I mean, it is what it is.
24:51I mean, you know, what's what's the saying?
24:54Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
24:56I mean, look, the rules are there.
24:58They've structured it in terms of like you can't do in-person interviews until like after January 20th after the divisional round.
25:07Like, and, you know, you're in a situation where the Patriots and the Crafts like, and we know the Crafts like to move quickly.
25:18Like they want to move on. They want to get the fans excited.
25:21They want renewals of season tickets and all that stuff.
25:23And I don't know if that's really happening like February 1st.
25:28Like they just want it over with.
25:30They got a guy who they know, who they trust, who they think is a great, has the potential to be a great head coach and win Super Bowls.
25:37Like, you know, let them do their business.
25:40I mean, I don't have a big problem with it.
25:42I'm not one of these people who's going to stand on a box and say, you know, it's a sham and all that stuff.
25:48I did that last year.
25:50There's no point in me doing it again.
25:53Like it sucks.
25:55Um, it, you know, it's not in the spirit of the Rooney rule, but look, at least they're not wasting anybody's time.
26:03If they know what they want, it'd be worse if they were wasting everybody's time.
26:07If they're wasting Aaron Glenn's time, if they're wasting Brian Flores' time in terms of, you know, waiting for them to go through the process and coming back for an in-person interview on January 20th.
26:18At least, at least they're being honest about it.
26:20And from all appearances, they're basically saying like, look, we know him.
26:24We know Vrabel.
26:25He's our guy.
26:26We're not going to waste anybody's time.
26:28We're going to do what we have to do according to the league office.
26:31But other than that, we're going to get the guy that we want.
26:36So I felt a little bit better about this search.
26:40Yesterday, I was doing my podcast.
26:42You can check it out.
26:43Nick Cattle Show, YouTube channel.
26:44I was doing my podcast yesterday, and I went like 35 minutes ranting and raving about the sham.
26:51Because I do think it was a sham.
26:54And then the Glenn News came out, and I said, well, if they interview Glenn, then I feel better about it.
27:01Because at least Glenn is a legitimate candidate.
27:04Now, we can talk about the timing, and you certainly could say the timing provides the plausible deniability for the crafts.
27:10Oh, well, we didn't just interview Pep Hamilton and Byron Leftwich.
27:14We also slid Aaron Glenn in there.
27:16And I understand that.
27:18And I wouldn't kill anybody for having that opinion.
27:23Let me just put it that way.
27:25But I'll give the crafts the benefit of the doubt.
27:27I'll say that they looked at the list, and they came up with the best offensive candidate, which is Ben Johnson.
27:34They came up with maybe the best defensive candidate.
27:38You could argue Brian Flores, of course, in that conversation.
27:42You could maybe mention Robert Sala.
27:44And they got the best experienced program guy in Mike Vrabel.
27:51So if those are the three that they interview, inevitably, they know that their opening is prized.
27:57It's coveted.
27:59And if you bring in the best offensive guy, one of the best defensive guys, and then the program builder with the history in Mike Vrabel,
28:06then I don't have as much of an issue.
28:10But I still think that they should have interviewed more people.
28:13I think it's too incestuous for me.
28:16I'll stay consistent with the whole Mayo thing.
28:21The fact that you're not gathering information and intelligence from other people, how other programs do it,
28:29trying to create relationships with other people.
28:32You really haven't had a head coaching search in 25 years.
28:36And you have an opportunity to look around and learn things.
28:41And I always think it's good to learn things and educate yourself and educate your franchise.
28:46And I don't think they're doing that as well as they could have.
28:50Not even close.
28:52I do think it was a rushed job.
28:54And I also would say this, one more thing before we move on.
28:57I hear people say, well, what happens?
29:00You might lose Vrabel if you drag your feet.
29:03You could have done both things.
29:04You could have interviewed more people this week and still ended up landing Vrabel by the end of the week.
29:10You could do that if you put in the requests on Sunday night.
29:14Like yesterday, Wednesday, they did nothing.
29:17From what I understand, they didn't interview anybody yesterday.
29:21So you had a full day that you could have brought in two or three guys, even via Zoom or whatever.
29:27Robert Sala is taking interviews.
29:29Anthony Weaver is taking interviews.
29:31They did not even reach out to Brian Flores.
29:34Now, maybe they didn't reach out to Brian Flores because they like Brian and they didn't want to insult him by reaching out to him when they know they're going to hire Vrabel.
29:43But I thought they had an opportunity to do more and they have failed at doing so.
29:49And if they end up hiring Vrabel, if we find out tonight that Vrabel is the guy and they don't interview Johnson and or Glenn tomorrow, then that is a joke.
29:57Because, I mean, what are we doing?
29:59Again, I get the ultimate goal and I'm fine.
30:02Mike Vrabel is my number one candidate.
30:04Last year, Greg and I talked about this before Mayo, before the succession language.
30:09We both said Vrabel.
30:11I wanted Vrabel from the beginning of last year.
30:14So I won't be mad if they land on Vrabel.
30:16I'll be very happy if they get Vrabel.
30:18And I think they're going to get Vrabel.
30:20But I still think you could do a lot more with this process to help your football team and your overall structure.
30:25And they're going to swing and miss.
30:27They're just going to swing and miss.
30:28All right, a couple of rapid fire questions, Greg, before we get to some Vrabel criticisms that I wanted to pass by you.
30:36Lightning round style.
30:39There's lots of talk about the staff, Greg, not developing the rookies.
30:42It goes back to Elliot Wolfe's comments to Henry McKenna, Fox Sports.
30:46Mike Giardi, your guy Giardi at BSJ had more about that this week.
30:51And this is something I brought up to Matt McCarthy on 98.5.
30:55And I'm not trying to absolve Elliot Wolfe.
30:58I just find it a fascinating conversation.
31:01Jalen Polk completely failed this year.
31:05How do you split up the blame pie, Greg?
31:09When you look at it, how much is on the player?
31:11How much is on Wolfe evaluations and getting it wrong?
31:15And how much is it on the positional coaches?
31:17I don't know the answer to that.
31:19But I think that could inform us about, hey, is Elliot Wolfe an absolute unmitigated disaster?
31:25Is Jalen Polk going to be absolutely useless in 2025?
31:29Right. I mean, the obvious answer is I'm not sure.
31:36And if I put too much in certain areas, people are going to think that I'm an Elliot Wolfe apologist and all this stuff, which I'm not.
31:45I mean, you know, but I will say this, like, and this is the way I looked at it.
31:53And this is, you know, from watching the film all year, being at all the practices.
31:56And I know, let's start here.
32:02Elliot Wolfe comes from a background with the Packers via Ted Thompson, probably his dad, less or so, but certainly Ted Thompson.
32:09And I do think that Brian Guttekin has carried this over.
32:17Those guys like went young and like left it on to the coaches.
32:21Like it was important. Like they very much valued like really good coaching.
32:25And it went hand in hand.
32:27It was like, you know, we're going to give you this young talent, but it's on you to do your job and develop these people.
32:35So that's he comes from that background.
32:36And I'm not saying it's right or what, but that's the background.
32:40That's what I think he was trying to set up here or is trying to set up here where we're going to go young.
32:47It's not optimal, but you're going to have to coach up the team.
32:51That's the way that that's the way it works in Green Bay and has for years.
32:56I think you look at this team as a whole outside of Drake May.
33:02I think you'd be hard and maybe Gonzalez, but then again, we didn't see a lot of Gonzalez's rookie year.
33:08He might just have been this good.
33:10I think they're both just that good.
33:13You know, can you point to anybody developing on this team?
33:17Has any has anybody improved?
33:19Has there been more improvement or more regression in the players?
33:23And I think you that's the biggest evidence to me that for whatever reason.
33:28And I think it was a marriage between an offensive coordinator who just sort of runs his system and doesn't really adjust to the talent that he has enough.
33:37I mean, certainly in some of the things that he allowed Drake May to do, he did.
33:41But in terms of actually like game planning to win that game, I'm talking about helping out the tackles and keeping people in and, you know, simplifying concepts.
33:50But the marriage between the offensive coordinator and some of the position coaches, whether it's Scott Peters on the offensive line.
33:58Tyler Hughes at wide receiver, the running backs coach, you know, I think you combine those two things.
34:06And I do not think that the coaching was good enough.
34:09And, you know, where does the blame fall on that?
34:12You know, part of it's on Wolf.
34:14A lot of it's on Mayo because he didn't have a Rolodex.
34:16But if in my opinion, and I know people are going to be like, well, you're just you're just a Wolf guy or whatever.
34:23From from my experience in the National Football League, I saw the lack of player development among the coaches as the biggest problem on this team.
34:31Andrew Callahan said in his story today, Boston Herald, great stuff from Andrew and Doug Kyde that there's a feeling he had a source that says Wolf doesn't put his foot down enough with the rest of his staff that that he doesn't kind of just stand by and say, I'm the guy calling this shot.
34:47This is what we're going to do.
34:49Do you hear any of that?
34:51Yes, and I can definitely see that.
34:54I mean, I do think that look, Elliot's a Elliot's a nice guy.
34:59He he got he there was some poll.
35:02I forget who did it, but there was some poll about asking agents like, you know, who are the personnel executives that you trust the most or enjoy dealing with the most?
35:12And Wolf got really high grades like Wolf is.
35:15He's a nice guy.
35:16He has contacts throughout the league, and he's sort of no nonsense like he's not going to he's not going to B.S.
35:23You like if he's dealing with an agent like he's going to he's going to make a real contract offer.
35:28He's not going to just dick around.
35:31I think that's why we saw so many of the Patriots like resign and some of them you could have said they overpaid.
35:36But I think Elliot's just like, look, this is the value on this guy.
35:40We're just going to offer him this much.
35:42We're not going to like low ball him and do that sort of thing.
35:44That Belichick would do.
35:46But I do think that Elliot, I think I think as a whole, this whole Patriots moving on from Bill thing.
35:56I think there was way too much, whether it was Mayo, whether it was Wolf.
36:00I think it was the both of them.
36:02There was way too much being like, we're going to be anti Bill and we're going to be we're going to collaborate more and we're going to talk to these people.
36:09And then where, you know, I think Wolf knows his stuff.
36:12And I think if he if he if he put put his foot down a little bit more and just let himself be himself, I think he would have been a little bit more successful.
36:22I just want to add this about the Callahan beast before we move on.
36:26I found this an interesting part of it.
36:28And Greg last year reported a lot about Mayo rubbing people the wrong way.
36:35And I think that report rubbed some people the wrong way.
36:39And but now, as more is getting uncovered about Gerard Mayo as a head coach.
36:47I think Greg can walk around if he wanted to through the hallways with his chest out proud as a freaking peacock, because I I read this from Callahan today.
36:57One staffer after the Cincinnati win.
37:01Here's what he told Callahan and Kyde, quote, After we won, Mayo was the happiest guy bouncing off the walls during the week, the happiest guy in the world.
37:10And after we lost, it was like someone shot his dog.
37:14Meanwhile, most of us are in there watching the tape of the Bengals game.
37:19And it's like, oh, shit, we were so lucky to win this game.
37:22I don't know if we I don't know if he watched the tape before taking that victory lap.
37:26We really lucked out there.
37:28And obviously, the rest of the season bore that out.
37:30So I think that's, you know, Greg has talked about he's reported about how Mayo when the defense is playing well last year, he kind of just, you know, he'd walk into those meetings like, hey, my my side's fine.
37:41My my side's fine.
37:43Fix your fix your side.
37:45And, you know, was Greg, I think you've used the word arrogant.
37:49And I think, you know, from the from the multiple reports this week, you can absolutely take that away from this reporting that there was an air of arrogance from Mayo, believing that he knew much more than he than he actually did know and how he handled certain things behind closed doors.
38:08Just kind of strikes you as somebody that, hey, my stuff don't stink.
38:11Yeah, I mean, you know, good job by Andrew and Doug, you know, putting all that stuff together.
38:17I didn't I don't know about you.
38:19I didn't find a whole lot new in there, you know, but they did get some good quotes and obviously talked to a bunch of people and sort of put it all together.
38:29I mean, it basically like, you know, paid in painted the landscape of the the whole thing.
38:34You know, what's funny about that anecdote about like, you know, when they lost, it was like his dog was shot.
38:40What's funny is that in Bill's last year, it was the exact opposite.
38:47I can't tell you how many people I talked to were just like, and this is before they knew about the succession language.
38:54But like a lot of people who were on staff was was like, you know, they're all just like they're all miserable being like, how can we figure out how to win games and, you know, do this?
39:03And there's there's Mayo like happier than pig and shit, like while all these other people are miserable.
39:11So last year they were the miserable ones.
39:14He was happy. The losses didn't affect them.
39:16And now this year, because he's in charge and his name's on it and his face is on it.
39:22Now he's miserable. I just it's just I mean, it's not surprising, but it's just interesting.
39:27The juxtaposition on that.
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41:04All right, so let's say Vrabel's the guy.
41:06Mike Giardi again at BSJ has some thoughts on the staff that Vrabel could have.
41:10So let's try to speed this up.
41:13Some of that was my fault last segment, starting with the long question that I asked you to start the lightning round that ended up not being a lightning round.
41:20Mike Giardi on the staff.
41:23So Josh McDaniels, his name comes up again.
41:26Greg, sell us on why Josh McDaniels would be a great pick.
41:29Because I think and nobody's really talked about this.
41:35It's one thing to get an offensive coordinator, play caller, offensive coordinator.
41:43That's great.
41:45With a young quarterback like Drake May, who's going to be the franchise for years to come.
41:52You need not just an offensive coordinator, play caller.
41:55You need a master teacher of the quarterback position.
42:00And I think that Josh's resume on that speaks itself.
42:05So I think Josh is one of these rare people who is an expert at coaching the quarterback, but is also an expert at game planning and play calling.
42:15So to me, if that happens, and look, I don't have any information on it.
42:20Last I heard, I think it's not a done deal.
42:26It's far from a done deal.
42:27I do think that Josh has other options, but he still lives locally.
42:32And I think whatever he does next, it's going to be in the best interest of his family.
42:38And you would think that staying in his house and going back to work at Gillette would be that.
42:44But who knows?
42:46We'll see what the McDaniels end up doing at the end of the day.
42:50But I just think Josh is terrific.
42:53I mean, look at what he did with Mac Jones and a bunch of new people on offense that year.
42:59Remember, they brought in all new tight ends, new wide receivers, all that.
43:03They were like sixth in the league in points with Mac Jones, who look what he's become.
43:09Imagine what he can do with Drake May and maybe some real talent.
43:15Bill never really gave him any true talent out there.
43:19I think he's tremendous.
43:20Look what he did bringing up especially like Garoppolo and Matt Castle and Mac Jones.
43:28And look what he got out of Cam Newton for a lot of that season.
43:32Jacoby Bursette beat an undefeated Texans team.
43:36I think he has a great resume.
43:39I think the offense is good.
43:41I think it can be used for anybody.
43:43Again, example, Mac Jones' rookie year.
43:45Everybody says that system's too complicated.
43:48That was really a Brady issue.
43:50Josh will make it as simple as it needs to be.
43:53And I think he'd be great for Drake May and for the Patriots in general.
43:59Two other OC names brought up by Giardi, Tommy Reese, Todd Downing.
44:03Any thoughts?
44:05Not really.
44:07Both those guys I would worry about how much of an expert are they coaching the quarterback.
44:14I think that Tommy Reese is probably going to get promoted in Cleveland.
44:18Yeah.
44:20Who is the other guy?
44:22Downing.
44:24Yeah, Downing is more of, if I remember correctly, he's more of like a tight ends coach type of guy.
44:29I mean, look, those guys are possible, but they better have kick-ass quarterback coaches that they're bringing with them because that's the most important thing.
44:37I think who's in the ear of the quarterback, how many, is a vital question that I think the Crafts were asking even last year, and certainly they will this offseason.
44:51Any shot a VP would stay as the quarterback's coach?
44:54I don't completely rule it out.
44:57But again, it depends on the marriage and who's the offensive coordinator and does he work with that system?
45:08I think it'd be if it was an old school West Coast guy.
45:12I think it's possible if he doesn't have any other options, but I wouldn't say it's probable.
45:18Shane Bowen is the name for the defensive coordinator.
45:21Any thoughts on Bowen?
45:23He's currently at New York for the Giants.
45:24There's some thought that maybe the Giants move on from him.
45:28Any idea on Bowen?
45:30I've just heard from a couple of people that he's not very impressive.
45:36I mean, look, and I don't know, I'm not telling you this, but you're also getting Mike Vrabel.
45:45And unlike Gerard Mayo, Mike Vrabel actually knows how to coach defense and will help that side of the ball a lot if it needs it.
45:51And that combination was really good, especially with rushing defense.
45:56Bowen and Vrabel did a nice job together.
45:59If they work together well, and that's why if Vrabel can get a guy like Josh McDaniels as the head coach offense,
46:08and he was even that under Bill Belichick in the later years, that frees up Vrabel to do all his Vrabel things.
46:15Like tinkering with the defense and game management and thinking up crap to do during the game.
46:22That's the best situation for Vrabel.
46:25Offensive line coaches, Jason Hoff Tailing and Keith Carter.
46:31Do you know either of those guys?
46:33Nope, never heard of either of them.
46:35Awesome. What would you do, by the way, Greg, at wide receivers coach?
46:39Do you have any names in your brain kind of jostling around?
46:42I don't, but they better find a good one because they need to get out of this crap that they're in.
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49:02NFL playoff lines. Let's get through them quickly here.
49:05Minus three at the Texans. Who are you taking?
49:07I like the Chargers, and they're sort of my dark horse, at least in the AFC.
49:13Ooh. Greg loves himself some Jim Harbaugh.
49:16And Justin Herbert.
49:18I'm going to go with the Chargers as well. I'll go Chargers minus three.
49:21I think Texans, they haven't been consistently good for a while here.
49:27Obviously lost Dell, lost Diggs. That has hurt.
49:30I'll go Chargers. Steelers at the Ravens. Ravens minus nine and a half.
49:33So I like the Ravens in this game. I don't know if I like the nine and a half.
49:38For two teams that know each other that well.
49:43And I know they did just meet, and it did not go well for the Steelers.
49:50But time to lick their wounds. I like the Ravens, but not to cover.
49:57Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. I mean, I know the Steelers have been really bad lately.
50:06Screw it. I'll be a gambling man. Ravens by ten or more.
50:11All right. Broncos at the Bills. Bills minus eight and a half.
50:14Let's see. Broncos at the Bills. I don't think the Broncos have any shot in this game.
50:22I like the Bills big time in this one.
50:23Bo Nix on the road. Cold weather. Buffalo. I'll take Buffalo laying the eight and a half.
50:28Packers at the Eagles. Minus four and a half. I should mention, obviously, Christian Watson tore his ACL.
50:33He's out. Jordan Love's a little dinged up with his elbow.
50:36Jalen Hurts is practicing. Said he looked sharp yesterday.
50:40Coming off a concussion. Packers, Eagles. Eagles minus four and a half.
50:43This one's a tough one. I don't know what to make of the Packers.
50:48Sometimes they look like world beaters. Other times they don't.
50:50I also think that the Eagles are one of these teams that loves to smell their own farts
50:57and think they've accomplished something when they really haven't.
51:01I think the Eagles win, but they're not covering. I don't think.
51:13I think it's going to be close. One two-point game.
51:15Sirianni picking fights with fans and stuff. What the hell is going on?
51:20I'll say Eagles by three, so I take the four and a half with the Packers.
51:26Commanders at Bucks. Bucks minus three.
51:28Good game. I think it's my favorite game of the weekend.
51:33That stadium. Weird crap happens. I do like Jaden Daniels and all that,
51:44but I think the Bucks win and they cover.
51:48I like the Bucks covering as well. I think they've done just a fantastic job.
51:56Liam Cohen. Tough team. A little slow out of the gates last week,
52:01but I'll take the Bucks to cover. Vikings minus one and a half at the Rams.
52:05This game might be moved to Arizona because of the wildfires out there in California.
52:09If you watch us out there in California, any of you hope that you are safe and well.
52:15I know Kelly was looking at the map yesterday of where the fire was.
52:19A couple of Aprils ago, we actually stayed out there because we went to WrestleMania.
52:26Yeah, I'm a nerd. WrestleMania was at SoFi.
52:29We actually had an Airbnb and they evacuated the Airbnb yesterday.
52:33We've been right there in that area before. It's a beautiful area.
52:36It's tragic. Hopefully everybody's okay. This game might be moved down to Arizona, Greg.
52:41Again, Minnesota minus one and a half at the Rams.
52:44I have much more confidence in the Vikings defense than I do the Rams defense.
52:51I don't think the Rams are very good. I don't think they can do what Detroit did to Sam Darnold.
53:02I don't think they can get enough pressure to make him really jittery in this game.
53:06I kind of like the Vikings big time in this game.
53:10I'll go Vikings minus one and a half. That'll do it. This has been a long episode. I think it was worth it.
53:15You got a lot of information, a lot of good information from Greg.
53:18Of course, all eyes now on the coaching search and air quotes.
53:23We'll see if Rable is head coach tonight, Thursday night, Friday night, Friday, Saturday.
53:29They can't announce it over the weekend, right? During the football games, Greg. Is that correct?
53:34Normally not. Not officially. Could leak out though.
53:39We might have some leakage on a Friday.
53:42I'll be checking out Adam Schefter this weekend before the games.
53:46Go Notre Dame football. Everybody be well.
53:49Go Irish.
53:51Go Irish. See ya.
54:03.