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Join Mike Kadlick and Taylor Kyles as they look at the Patriots coaching staff and determine who could fill the positions that are currently empty. Who will be the next offensive and defensive coordinators? Will anyone from the Mayo regime keep their jobs?

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Transcript
00:00:00I am joined by Robert Griffin, the third James White field.
00:00:10Yes.
00:00:11Mina Kimes.
00:00:12All right.
00:00:13So first play, we're going to look at second into one of the Patriots first offensive plays.
00:00:18What is going on everybody?
00:00:21Mike Catholic here, Taylor Kyle's there and a happy Friday to our Patriots daily listeners.
00:00:26We're here for an early afternoon episode of the pod powered by prize picks and game
00:00:31time as always.
00:00:33And today, well, yesterday we did an audit, a look at the 20, a way too early look at
00:00:37the Patriots 2025 roster today.
00:00:40We're going to turn it on to the coaching staff.
00:00:43Now it's not too early yet because that is sort of on the horizon here, Taylor.
00:00:48As far as what the Patriots are going to do with their coaching staff search, Mike Vrabel
00:00:53said this week that, you know, guys are still in the playoffs, so it's going to be, there's
00:00:57no real timeline.
00:00:58It's a little bit slower on how they might sort of attack this whole situation.
00:01:03There's also the real aspect of things where with coordinator titles, you have to meet
00:01:07certain you know, certain interview requests and things of that nature and and how this
00:01:13thing goes.
00:01:14So a lot of red tape around it and it's been pretty quiet.
00:01:17I kind of thought when I forget, I think it was on on the Greg Hill show when Vrabel went
00:01:23on on Tuesday.
00:01:24He said that they were going to start their staff search that day and we have heard next
00:01:29to nothing.
00:01:30It's been radio silence.
00:01:31So it's the end of the week.
00:01:32So today gives us sort of a an overarching look at where this thing could go.
00:01:37I know there is some coaching staff news, Taylor, if you wanted to share that.
00:01:41I know you were just on it and I actually missed it.
00:01:43So Joe Kim will not be returning, but could you give us a little bit more insight into
00:01:47it?
00:01:48Yeah, no.
00:01:49So this was broken by Mike Reese.
00:01:50I'm going to try to just get this on the screen really quick right now.
00:01:54I'll just make it easier for everybody to read.
00:01:57One sec.
00:01:58I had it for a second.
00:02:01And here is, wow, really laggy today for whatever reason.
00:02:07But anyway, from Mike Reese, Patriots director of skill development, Joe Kim, who spent the
00:02:12last seven years tutoring pass rushers and helping develop young coaches, is moving on
00:02:16in 2025.
00:02:17Funny, I was actually wondering this when I was putting this list together, the spreadsheet
00:02:22in the other tab, I was like, is Joe Kim really going to be around with what's probably going
00:02:26to be a very new regime?
00:02:27And clearly not.
00:02:28Kim's work utilizing martial arts driven techniques and helping apply them to football has been
00:02:33noted by players as beneficial to their development.
00:02:36I've had nothing but a positive experience with the Patriots, said Kim, who first broke
00:02:40into the NFL in 92 with the Browns under Bill Belichick.
00:02:43The time is right for a new challenge.
00:02:45This fall, Kim's work was noted by Nick Saban on ESPN's College Game Day.
00:02:48He teaches players how to attack a source, how to use and read a body position for weaknesses
00:02:53and strength.
00:02:54He's the pass rush guru, Saban said.
00:02:56So Joe Kim, very valuable member of the Patriots coaching staff for many years, no longer going
00:03:01to be around.
00:03:02All righty.
00:03:03So we will take that into consideration as we audit this thing.
00:03:08Interesting note, too, on the whole skills development aspect of the Patriots staff.
00:03:12I know we'll get into it.
00:03:13Troy Brown was the assistant in that role this year with him.
00:03:17I know that he had been a wide receivers coach in the past, sort of got demoted for lack
00:03:21of a better term with Mayo staff and was in the skills development role with Kim.
00:03:25He was at Mike Vrabel's intro presser on Monday.
00:03:29So maybe Vrabel ends up finding a role for Troy Brown on this roster.
00:03:33But Taylor, I know you are going to pull it up on your end.
00:03:35So if you could, that would be helpful.
00:03:38And we will start right from the top with head coach Mike Vrabel.
00:03:43He ain't going anywhere.
00:03:44He's in green.
00:03:45He's here and is here to stay.
00:03:49When I was filling out the list before, I had originally put, it was a little too mean.
00:03:55I put the old coaching staff in and I had Gerard Mayo and I put a big strike through
00:03:59here.
00:04:00But he is officially, it was a little harsh.
00:04:02But Mike Vrabel is the guy, he's here to stay.
00:04:04The real question is, I think right now, is that director of game management role is an
00:04:10interesting one because I mentioned Troy Brown was at the press conference.
00:04:15So was Evan Rothstein, who was quarterback's coach here, as well as the director of game
00:04:20management last season.
00:04:21So John Stryker is a name that comes up.
00:04:23I see him listed in the candidate column here.
00:04:27Your thoughts on what they could potentially do here?
00:04:29Do you want to do the green orange red thing we did yesterday with these guys?
00:04:33Yeah, for sure.
00:04:34We can do that.
00:04:35Okay.
00:04:36All right.
00:04:37I think John Stryker, John Rothstein would be an orange candidate because he might be
00:04:40here in some capacity.
00:04:42He's still in the building trying to work and come over.
00:04:45I also wonder if he's a candidate to go to North Carolina, if Mike, not Mike Vrabel,
00:04:51Matt Patricia is going to end up there as well.
00:04:53But I think Stryker's green.
00:04:54I think that's a guy that they're waiting for in the playoff.
00:04:56Yeah, definitely.
00:04:57So this is a guy that Vrabel and all of them apparently call stretch.
00:05:00The dude is really, really tall.
00:05:01I saw a picture of him standing next to somebody like towering over some assistant, but yeah,
00:05:07he's got like the Davis Mills long neck.
00:05:09I saw.
00:05:10And so some coach did it the other day.
00:05:12I was like, oh, wow.
00:05:13I wonder why they call him stretch.
00:05:14I was like, it was pretty funny.
00:05:15Pretty much what it is, but that's just all of them.
00:05:18But yeah, he has been Vrabel's right hand man.
00:05:19He was in Tennessee.
00:05:21He started out as the assistant to the head coach from 2018 to 2019, was promoted to football
00:05:26development coordinator from 2020 to 2022, then 2023 variables last season.
00:05:31He was the director of football administration last season because obviously Vrabel did not
00:05:36have a job.
00:05:37He was the Rams game management coordinator.
00:05:39So it seems like I think the Rams will let him out of his contract to go back to Vrabel,
00:05:43who is his main guy.
00:05:44So I would agree.
00:05:45Rostein, maybe they keep him on in some capacity, but in this one specifically, I would put
00:05:49it as probably red.
00:05:52He didn't do enough last year to really seem like somebody who definitely deserved to come
00:05:56back.
00:05:57You mean, Taylor, they had a long conversation on Thanksgiving day, right?
00:06:00The Thanksgiving conversation that the reaction to that was still ridiculous.
00:06:04It really was not that big of a deal and it turned into like a thing.
00:06:07So yeah, I'm going to say that I think stretch is going to replace Evan Rostein on the team,
00:06:13but really get right back to where he was back in Tennessee.
00:06:15I think so too.
00:06:16I think that makes the most sense.
00:06:18Taylor, the one set it on his pod the other day to the first text he made when variable
00:06:21got hired was to stretch saying congratulations on your move to New England.
00:06:25So it seems like that is inevitable, but let's move on right away to the offense and specifically
00:06:31the coordinator position.
00:06:32Alex Van Pelt, the reports came out and I went too fast on it on our post game show
00:06:38after the game that Alex Van Pelt had been fired.
00:06:40It seems as though that is not the case, but obviously could be a candidate to return.
00:06:45I know they're going to open up their search.
00:06:47We have some other candidates there, Josh McDaniels, Mike LaFleur, Nick Haley, a couple
00:06:52other guys, but let's start with Van Pelt.
00:06:55The big question, and we talked about it during our mailbag earlier in the week is does he
00:07:00return?
00:07:01Does he have a chance at an OC interview?
00:07:03Does he return as a quarterbacks coach in some capacity?
00:07:09Would he take the demotion?
00:07:11Is there room for it?
00:07:12What's your thoughts on ABP potentially returning to this team?
00:07:16It's tough, man, because it's really unlikely he stays on as the offensive coordinator.
00:07:21I think that Mike Vrabel would probably want somebody that he's a little bit more familiar
00:07:24with, even though because he was in Cleveland, he probably has more familiarity with their
00:07:28offensive system.
00:07:29Still doesn't really seem likely necessarily now.
00:07:32Could Alex Van Pelt stay in a different role?
00:07:34I don't know if the guy wants to take a demotion, especially it'd be the second year in a row
00:07:38he kind of got put into a bad spot, and apparently he has an opportunity to go to Buffalo and
00:07:43be a media guy there.
00:07:45He's very charismatic.
00:07:46We enjoyed all of our press conferences with him, ton of experience both as a player and
00:07:51a coach.
00:07:52Seems like that'd be a good fit for him.
00:07:53So I guess by the Rothstein rule, we kind of put him in red.
00:07:57So do we think we, like, I'm curious your thoughts on the Roths, the rule of how we're
00:08:03going to do this.
00:08:04Do we want to put Rothstein and ABP in orange as like, we can caveat it as could potentially
00:08:10stay on staff in some capacity.
00:08:12That's fair.
00:08:13Yeah.
00:08:14And then when it, so as you guys see this and you know, if you listen to the full show,
00:08:17you'll understand what this means.
00:08:18Not that they're necessarily options to stay in that role, but that they could be here
00:08:23in some capacity.
00:08:24And I agree on ABP.
00:08:26I would love him to be here.
00:08:28I think the continuity aspect of Drake may in that role is a huge aspect of this decision.
00:08:35I wonder how much for able cares about that.
00:08:37Not so much cares about it, but you bring in a guy like Josh and it's like, okay, one
00:08:41year of ABP.
00:08:42Now you kind of move on to your Josh McDaniels, or even if it's Michael Fleur, who we'll get
00:08:46to.
00:08:47And then you sort of get, get going when they pair them with those guys.
00:08:52But if ABP is not going to be here, I know we have the list of candidates.
00:08:55Let's just kind of hit on all of them.
00:08:57We have Josh, we have Michael, Michael Fleur, Nick Kaley, as well as Tim Kelly, who was
00:09:02a variables OC towards the end of his time in Tennessee.
00:09:06We also have shadow Shay listed in the wide receivers realm for right now.
00:09:11We can hit on him here too.
00:09:13That's a guy who is a pass game coordinator and wide receivers coach currently with the
00:09:18Cleveland Browns.
00:09:19He had worked here in the past.
00:09:20He also worked with variable last year in Cleveland.
00:09:24So there's some connection here.
00:09:25So let's just rapid fire.
00:09:27I think Josh is green.
00:09:30What are your thoughts on Josh and maybe even the rest of the guys?
00:09:32Yeah.
00:09:33So here, this is purely guessing, like we haven't heard anything.
00:09:36There's not been any news.
00:09:37So here, if we have somebody in green, it's really just going to be kind of process of
00:09:41elimination based on, all right, if we don't think this coach is going to be here, these
00:09:44are the guys based on, you know, if the guys already has a job and there's not really a
00:09:49way to join the team, then those are going to be guys where, yeah, you're saying probably
00:09:53not unless they get some kind of senior advisor title, but we'll kind of try to go through
00:09:57with the resume and who fits the best.
00:09:59So do we want to maybe put our favorite candidate for each in green and just leave it at that?
00:10:05Because like you said, there's no sense in speculating, oh, it's Charles London going
00:10:09to leave.
00:10:10We don't know.
00:10:11Like that's kind of hard to do.
00:10:12So exactly.
00:10:13Yeah.
00:10:14We're not going to overcomplicate things.
00:10:15This is really the idea.
00:10:16This is really just to introduce all the different candidates, where their roles are, and you
00:10:19have an idea of where they can end up, what the connections are.
00:10:23So a lot of these connections are basically the Tennessee staffs that Mike Vrabel was
00:10:25on, tried to look for some coaches in Cleveland.
00:10:28There wasn't really anybody that jumped out, especially now that we know Tommy Reese is
00:10:31going to return as the offensive coordinator.
00:10:33And then just some connections, maybe from Houston or the Patriots and Mike Vrabel's
00:10:37playing days.
00:10:38So Josh McDaniels, obviously he was here throughout Mike Vrabel's time here, was one of the people
00:10:44who was instrumental in developing Tom Brady, six-time Super Bowl champion.
00:10:48His resume speaks for itself.
00:10:50I think the biggest questions would be, okay.
00:10:52Is he going to maybe modernize the offense where all the window dressing we're seeing
00:10:55from all these teams and the difficulty that motion and different looks are creating?
00:10:59Josh has been excellent at using formations and different things to create some confusion.
00:11:04That's one of the things he did, especially with like the tight ends and obviously with
00:11:07the running backs, kind of going back old school.
00:11:09He's very adaptable and not just with Brady, because we saw it with Cam Newton.
00:11:13We saw it with Mack Jones.
00:11:14We even saw it with all the quarterbacks he had to work with when he was in Vegas.
00:11:18So as an offensive mind, he's brilliant.
00:11:20He's my favorite candidate.
00:11:21And he is not the only candidate.
00:11:23Now, Mike Vrabel has been pretty elusive when asked about specifically McDaniels.
00:11:27Then we saying there's a lot of really good candidates and that's because there are one,
00:11:31you've got Michael Floor.
00:11:32He's one of the hottest candidates right now.
00:11:34Now he's currently the Rams offensive coordinator, but Sean McVay is the one who calls plays.
00:11:39So it's very likely he would be allowed to actually leave and pursue a job where he could
00:11:43have a more comprehensive role where he's not just coordinating the offense.
00:11:47It is his offense to also call plays.
00:11:49Now he was the Jets offensive coordinator from 2021 to 2022.
00:11:54That was when he had experience calling plays one feather in his cap, at least he's done
00:11:57it before.
00:11:58Now that he's been with Sean McVay, you're hoping that maybe he's taken a step there.
00:12:02There was some inconsistency.
00:12:03Garrett Wilson obviously had an outstanding rookie season, but he also made Mike White
00:12:08look decent, which was pretty impressive.
00:12:10But the Jets were the Jets still, and it wasn't a great offense.
00:12:13He was also the 49ers passing and coordinator from 2017 to 2020.
00:12:17He was also wide receivers coach from 2017 to 2018.
00:12:21So when you've brushed up with McVay and then Shanahan, that's obviously a very appealing
00:12:26guy because he's been with two of the best teachers and developers of coaches in the
00:12:30NFL.
00:12:31Other candidates, Nick Haley.
00:12:32We all know Nick Haley was the Patriots tight ends coach forever.
00:12:36Also coached fullbacks for a time.
00:12:38Patriots tried to bring him in as their offense coordinator last year wisely.
00:12:41He declined and went back to LA and he added actually the title of I believe he's the passing
00:12:47game coordinator for them as well.
00:12:49Yeah, passing him coordinator.
00:12:50So the added title helped keep him around.
00:12:53But you say, hey, maybe now that this is more of a serious operation, you got Mike Vrabel
00:12:57and Drake May.
00:12:58He didn't know whose quarterback was going to be when they interviewed him last year.
00:13:01So now that the Patriots have some guys to kind of wave and say, hey, you know, we have
00:13:05a serious head coach.
00:13:06We have a darling young quarterback.
00:13:08You know, maybe he'll he'll be more open minded to joining if they do pursue him.
00:13:13That Rams offense being a tight ends coach, he has a unique perspective where he's worked
00:13:18with the run game and the pass game, although obviously his focus was on the pass game.
00:13:21Then finally, Tim Kelly, 38 year old tight ends coach for the Giants currently.
00:13:27Before that, he was a guy who really followed Rabel around.
00:13:30He was in Houston at the same time as Mike Vrabel.
00:13:33He was the tight ends coach from 2017 to 2018, was also an offensive quality control coach
00:13:38from 2015 to 2016.
00:13:40But when Vrabel went to Tennessee, he actually became in 2020 the passing game coordinator
00:13:45and was the offense coordinator in 2023.
00:13:48Now, obviously, Titans offense was not great in 2023 or 2022.
00:13:54So these aren't exactly feathers in his cap necessarily, but the familiarity, he's someone
00:13:58you at least need to acknowledge.
00:13:59He's also a young coach.
00:14:00So if the Giants maybe want to move on or if they let him out of his contract, maybe
00:14:05Vrabel gives him some kind of role, whether it's with, you know, a higher ranking role
00:14:09like coordinator, maybe something smaller just because they do have a pretty lengthy
00:14:13history together.
00:14:15Probably not the favorite candidate.
00:14:16I would much prefer Josh McDaniels.
00:14:18Michael Floor and Nick Haley are super interesting.
00:14:21Obviously that Rams offense especially has integrated a lot of Patriots principles with
00:14:26a lot of the downhill stuff.
00:14:27Some of the more Josh McDaniel-y kind of things with play action.
00:14:31The Rams do a lot of that as they've kind of shifted away from the heavy use of outside
00:14:35zone and tried to be a little bit more balanced as a running attack.
00:14:37So obviously everybody wants a little bit of that action from that tree.
00:14:42But Josh McDaniels, tried and true, already established.
00:14:47We know what he can do with young quarterbacks, how adaptable he is.
00:14:50I would feel comfortable giving him the keys to Drake Mays' future.
00:14:53Totally with you.
00:14:54I think Josh is the favorite that we can put in green.
00:14:56As far as Haley and Tim Kelly, I do like the tight ends aspect because they do, they are
00:15:02involved in the pass game and the run game.
00:15:05Problem is Haley's never coached quarterbacks.
00:15:07Tim Kelly has coordinator of offense, which is a plus and has coached quarterbacks at
00:15:11least once in his career.
00:15:12He did with Houston in 2020, but still just not totally sold on Tim Kelly.
00:15:18He felt like he kind of wound up being the backup option after a couple of years, Tennessee
00:15:23lost Matt LaFleur and then Arthur Smith, two head coaching jobs, and he kind of fell into
00:15:27it and then that thing happened.
00:15:29And then Mike LaFleur, by far my favorite backup option.
00:15:33I think the fact that he played quarterback, I think the fact that he's coached quarterbacks,
00:15:37that he's called plays, that he's been a passing game coordinator.
00:15:40That is literally, I think Josh is a one day, one number one candidate for this because
00:15:48of all the things we've talked about.
00:15:50The fact that he probably won't leave.
00:15:51Like if Michael LaFleur with that resume comes in here and kicks ass with Drake may, unfortunately
00:15:56he's probably gone into three years minimum or three years maximum, excuse me.
00:16:01So I like the idea of it.
00:16:03The flight risk kind of scares me.
00:16:04And I think Josh just makes too much sense there.
00:16:07Especially with LaFleur and Kaley, like they're young guys.
00:16:10That's a little bit of a risk in and of itself, but especially not having worked with quarterbacks
00:16:13before.
00:16:14That's really scary.
00:16:15And both are still risked because they've never called plays.
00:16:18So with Josh, it just, it feels too obvious.
00:16:20It's everything that you need.
00:16:22It's really not that much of a gamble.
00:16:23The biggest gamble is maybe he doesn't fully max out Drake may.
00:16:27And at some point, if he is a coordinator, you could at least hire some kind of assistance
00:16:31to help update your past game and bring some different things to it.
00:16:34So I feel like that's the best case scenario, but obviously we'll see there's a lot of other
00:16:38names out there as well.
00:16:39Oh, and shadows and shadows.
00:16:40We can mention him as well experience with use with the dolphins for a long time.
00:16:45Then he's been with the Browns since then, but obviously has his roots with the Patriots
00:16:49and was a wide receivers coach for them.
00:16:51The fact that Mike Vrabel spent a lot of time on the offensive side of the ball.
00:16:55Maybe he had a relationship with shadow Shea, but even still another guy, he doesn't have
00:16:59experience with quarterbacks.
00:17:00He's a wide receivers guy predominantly, even though he was the past game coordinator, also
00:17:05never called plays.
00:17:06So yeah, I don't know that I like shadow Shea as an offensive coordinator candidate either.
00:17:10Yeah, I'm with you.
00:17:11I think I guess we'll move on to senior assistant and Ben McAdoo was the lone wolf there.
00:17:18I think we can be quick here.
00:17:20I don't know if there's much of a connection at all to him and still Elliot Wolf.
00:17:25That's his main connection to the team.
00:17:27Okay, that's a good point.
00:17:29That's fair.
00:17:30Obviously he had the relative relationship with not relative, but type relationship with
00:17:36AVP from Green Bay and things like that.
00:17:38But do you think Ben McAdoo has any capacity here?
00:17:41Do you think that was a one and done with Gerard kind of being the overarching offensive
00:17:47assistant?
00:17:48I wonder too, like could shadow Shea become a senior offensive assistant?
00:17:52I don't know if that's necessarily an upgrade.
00:17:55Is he like, it just kind of feels like last year it was AVP who hadn't called plays and
00:18:02was coming in here as the QB guru and they needed a lot of help.
00:18:05So McAdoo is here.
00:18:06I look at if they bring in Josh McDaniels or even Mike LaFleur, do they really need
00:18:11that overarching person on staff?
00:18:16I think that this title, I think that Ben McAdoo could still stick around because he's
00:18:20a wolf guy and I'm not sure there's a lot of people banging down his door necessarily
00:18:25for his services.
00:18:26No offense to him.
00:18:27It's just, you know, the fact that he was a new England kind of, it kind of gives me
00:18:30that impression because there weren't a lot of people that did want to come to New England.
00:18:33It seems like last year.
00:18:34So he could stick around.
00:18:35I would put him in orange, but I think the senior assistant role is probably going to
00:18:38go to somebody.
00:18:39If they do want to poach somebody from another team, that's something you could slap on.
00:18:44And that's really where like Tony Dews, I think it is you pronounce his name.
00:18:49We're going to talk about him later, but he's one of the guys where if you really wanted
00:18:53to take him from another team, maybe you give him that kind of title.
00:18:57So that it's something else where it's, it's still a promotion.
00:19:01But yeah, I don't think that Ben McAdoo is going to be back in this capacity.
00:19:04Yeah.
00:19:05I think so too.
00:19:06Yeah.
00:19:07Orange is fair.
00:19:10Is he really going to be back?
00:19:11I mean, he was like your third down guy.
00:19:13He was really useful.
00:19:14The team liked him.
00:19:15I know there was a whole story.
00:19:16I don't know if it was mass live that did it all, where they kind of detailed what his
00:19:20role was.
00:19:21He's popular on the team.
00:19:22Yeah.
00:19:23All right.
00:19:24We'll be nice.
00:19:25We'll give him an orange.
00:19:26I think he's a, could somebody, somebody who could stick around in some capacity.
00:19:27We will continue on with the offense, but before we do a quick word from our friends
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00:21:21All right.
00:21:22Let's keep going here and we'll go to quarterbacks.
00:21:27I thought TC was great.
00:21:28I thought he was awesome with ABP.
00:21:30There was a ton of...
00:21:33They obviously had a rapport.
00:21:34They had worked together.
00:21:35It made a ton of sense and they did great work with Drake May.
00:21:38If Josh McDaniels is here, I don't see TC McCartney sticking around as the quarterback's coach.
00:21:43I think Josh is going to be that guy and it's pretty much going to be his ballgame.
00:21:47Yeah, but even still, I think you do need a quarterback's coach on the roster because
00:21:52that's the guy that works with the back of the quarterback.
00:21:54He still does a lot of things for you.
00:21:56So it's going to be interesting.
00:21:57Sorry, I'll cut you off.
00:21:59Not meaning to.
00:22:00And we do have an assistant coach here as well.
00:22:03I feel like Josh has had...
00:22:07Jerry Szplinski was here as an assistant coach to quarterbacks while Josh was the main coach.
00:22:11I feel like Josh will be the main guy, but you're totally right.
00:22:14He'll need somebody under him to be that backup player.
00:22:17Exactly.
00:22:18And then so when you look at some of the candidates, like TC, I know the footwork is pretty similar.
00:22:22It's still like the left foot up kind of thing.
00:22:24It's not all the same because there are two different offensive systems, but if Alex Van
00:22:29Pelt is orange, I feel like we got to keep, I think, TC in orange as well.
00:22:32Because if there's any chance Van Pelt sticks around, maybe TC does as well, even if it's
00:22:36basically in a role to just help out.
00:22:38And then obviously Rothstein still, it could be in a different role, but there's a chance
00:22:41that he's also still going to be on the staff.
00:22:43But looking at some of the candidates, if there's no TC McCartney, Vrabel wants to go
00:22:47with someone that he's familiar with.
00:22:48You go with Pat O'Hara.
00:22:49Now, Pat O'Hara was the Tennessee Titans past game analyst in 2023, but he had been the
00:22:56Titans quarterbacks coach for Mike Vrabel the entire time.
00:23:00He was the head coach before that.
00:23:02Coach Ryan Tannehill to a 2019 Pro Bowl.
00:23:05Now, obviously a lot of that had to do with the fact that the Titans just were so good.
00:23:09But Pat O'Hara really was Mike Vrabel's guy quarterback for most of that time.
00:23:14Also has a background on multiple arena football league teams as a head coach and offensive
00:23:19coordinator.
00:23:20That's kind of a little interesting tidbit there.
00:23:21Moving on, Charles London, currently the Seahawks quarterbacks coach.
00:23:26He took over as the quarterbacks coach from Pat O'Hara for the Titans in 2023, was also
00:23:31the past game coordinator.
00:23:32So this is the kind of deal where you probably need another additional title as well.
00:23:37So it had to probably be like quarterbacks coach and past game coordinator or something
00:23:41of that nature.
00:23:42If you wanted to get him out of Seattle, that's another one in terms of familiarity.
00:23:46And then I hate to be that guy on Charles London.
00:23:49I don't want to do it because it's not the right way to do it.
00:23:52But I look at Charles London as Rooney rule candidate for O.C.
00:23:59Come in, sham, check that box, and then do it as fact finding and potentially bring him
00:24:05in as quarterbacks coach.
00:24:06That's not a bad idea either.
00:24:07He was past game coordinator with Tennessee when he was there.
00:24:12And we've talked about the who was the who was the offensive line coach before Scott
00:24:19Peters here.
00:24:20Adrian Clem.
00:24:21It's the same thing.
00:24:22They brought him in as O.C. and ended up giving him another role.
00:24:24I wonder if that could be a similar case with Charles London.
00:24:27Yeah, that's definitely a good call.
00:24:30And honestly, I think he is a candidate to be the offensive coordinator.
00:24:34I don't know how seriously compared to others.
00:24:36I don't know.
00:24:37But the quarterback's background and the fact that he wasn't charged the past game, that
00:24:40would be kind of a natural step forward if he actually was someone that Fable liked a
00:24:46lot in Tennessee.
00:24:47Obviously, didn't have great quarterback play.
00:24:48So it's hard to judge based on what he did there.
00:24:50Gino Smith did pretty well last year outside of like their offensive line situations.
00:24:54Absolute mess.
00:24:55And then the last two guys, obviously, Pepp Hamilton and Byron Leftwich, as we spoke about
00:25:00when you bring guys in sometimes one job really you're interviewing them for another.
00:25:04That's clearly what happened with Pepp Hamilton and Byron Leftwich.
00:25:06Both guys were brought in for the sham interviews to quickly get past the Rooney rule.
00:25:11But they do both have backgrounds when it comes to coordinating offenses and coaching
00:25:16quarterbacks.
00:25:17Pepp Hamilton was most recently.
00:25:18Both these guys have been on the league for the past two years, which is why the interviews
00:25:21didn't really seem authentic.
00:25:23But most recently, he was the offensive coordinator for the Texans in 2022, 2021.
00:25:29He was the Texans passing coordinator and quarterbacks coach.
00:25:32Before that, he was the Chargers quarterbacks coach in 2020.
00:25:35Also was the assistant head coach and pass game coordinator for Jim Harbaugh's Michigan
00:25:39Wolverines from 2017 to 2018.
00:25:42Then Byron Leftwich was the offensive coordinator most recently for the Buccaneers.
00:25:46He held that role from 2019 to 2022.
00:25:50Obviously won a Super Bowl with Tom Brady, who seemed to like him a lot.
00:25:53So there's a connection there.
00:25:55Obviously Brady and Vrabel are friends.
00:25:56You can get a little bit of insight in what kind of a teacher Byron Leftwich is.
00:26:00Now Leftwich was getting head coaching interviews when they won the Super Bowl.
00:26:03Then he got fired and it's been, you know, pretty quiet for him, which is kind of a weird
00:26:08situation.
00:26:09But those are the guys when you talk about quarterbacks coaches that really stand out
00:26:12the most for me.
00:26:13Honestly, no one, I mean, unless Pat O'Hara, because he is not currently employed.
00:26:19If he's a guy that they want to just bring on because he's someone who's familiar and
00:26:23maybe we'll just do whatever Josh needs, there's that.
00:26:26But there's not a lot of names that really stick out to me in terms of like great fits,
00:26:30because you don't know if Josh McDaniels maybe has somebody that he would have in mind for
00:26:34quarterbacks coach.
00:26:35Yeah, I think we're safe.
00:26:36Not really putting our favorite on that one right now, because like you mentioned, if
00:26:40anything, Pat O'Hara, because he doesn't have a job right now, right, right.
00:26:44So, but again, you don't know the relationship with Josh or anything like that.
00:26:46I think we can leave that section blank for now, because there's so much mystery in the
00:26:50trickle down effect if McDaniels ends up becoming that guy.
00:26:54On to offensive line, Scott Peters, your guy.
00:26:58Is he green?
00:26:59Is he orange?
00:27:00What do you think they should do with O-line?
00:27:02And then same with Kugler and McCarthy, who like I hate to just, you know, run those guys
00:27:06out of town because like that's not, I just don't see maybe if Peters is here, he vouches
00:27:12to keep those guys.
00:27:13I wonder what their future is, especially with some of the other candidates that could
00:27:16come and fill in.
00:27:18But what are your thoughts on Peters potentially returning?
00:27:20Yeah.
00:27:21So I thought that Scott Peters and Kugler and McCarthy were in the group of coaches
00:27:26where they did the best they could, right?
00:27:29Like one thing, I think one of the lines that kind of slid under the radar was when he was
00:27:34asked about Gerrard's comment about having consistently changed the lineup and Gerrard
00:27:38said it was frustrating and Scott Peters was like, I'm not in the business of getting frustrated.
00:27:42I'm in the business of finding answers or something like that.
00:27:44And I was like, talk your shit boy.
00:27:46Okay.
00:27:47I think Peters, I think Peters and his group did a really good job.
00:27:49I also like when I look at the other candidates for offensive line coach, let me get my notes
00:27:55up real quick.
00:27:56But like, so Mike Sullivan is currently Tennessee's assistant offensive line coach.
00:28:01He has had the same role from 2014 to 2017, then from 2019 to the present, the only in-between
00:28:07he was an offensive assistant in 2018.
00:28:10So he's been around the offensive line in Tennessee for a while.
00:28:13He coached Ben Jones who went to the Pro Bowl in 2022, the center that Mike Vrabel loved.
00:28:18That's the guy who was in the video where he was crying and they were embracing.
00:28:21Then Roger Sappold was a Pro Bowl guard for them in 2021.
00:28:25He was also an offensive line coach for Cleveland from 2007 to 2008 and in 2013, also coach
00:28:31offensive line for the San Diego Chargers.
00:28:33So like he's run his own group before, but I don't know if Tennessee was necessarily
00:28:37this like powerhouse offensive line in terms of like developing players, at least not that
00:28:41I've really heard.
00:28:43So I don't know if he's a guy that Vrabel would want to promote and have be the guy
00:28:49running the room.
00:28:50And then Jason, I think his last name was Hufftaling, Hufftaling.
00:28:53I don't know.
00:28:54Yeah.
00:28:55Okay.
00:28:56A wild last name though.
00:28:57I would love to find out exactly how it is pronounced.
00:28:59He right now was Chicago's assistant offensive line coach, but he was the Titans offensive
00:29:03line coach in 2023 variables last year.
00:29:06And he was an assistant offensive line coach for 2021 to 2022.
00:29:10So honestly, I think there's a decent chance that Scott Peter sticks around, especially
00:29:15given the fact that one, this is a system that I think Vrabel would be familiar.
00:29:21Actually no, because they had a different offensive line coach.
00:29:23So I'm not sure how familiar he would be, but I think that Scott Peters is a really
00:29:28well-respected coach.
00:29:29I would like to see him stick around for obvious reasons.
00:29:32I think that just the way he connects to players is very unique.
00:29:34I think his system is one that once you get the hang of it, I'd like to see how Mike and
00:29:38when you, when some of the older guys could do with another year in that system and getting
00:29:42to further develop.
00:29:43But also I will say Mike Sullivan, the fact that he was in Tennessee and did work with
00:29:48Brian Callahan and, and oh my gosh, what's his dad's name.
00:29:54I always do this and I can never think of his dad's name.
00:29:56And it also starts with a B Brian.
00:29:58I do too.
00:30:01Bill Callahan.
00:30:02Jeez Louise.
00:30:03You know, I'm the one who's bad with names.
00:30:04You got to pick that up.
00:30:07The fact that he was still with Brian, oh my God, with Bill Callahan, who is the one
00:30:12who worked with the strike system with Scott Peters in Cleveland, there is some overlap
00:30:16there.
00:30:17So if he was hired, I think it would at least allow for some carry over for the offensive
00:30:21line.
00:30:23So it's, this is a tough group.
00:30:24Honestly, this exercise is tough because you just don't know really enough about a lot
00:30:28of these coaches and their connections.
00:30:30And obviously we don't know where the staff is leaning right now, but I think it's fair
00:30:33to put Scott Peters and orange in the leading candidate if he was to be fired or if they,
00:30:40if he decided he wanted to take another opportunity with his group, it would probably be Mike
00:30:43Sullivan.
00:30:44I like it.
00:30:45That makes a ton of sense.
00:30:46Moving on to wide receivers, a tough topic because look at Tyler Hughes, good dude, Taekwon
00:30:55Underwood.
00:30:56Great dude as someone who played here, loved coming back, did a great job at Pittsburgh.
00:31:03Not to say he didn't do a great job here.
00:31:05I don't know, but clearly there wasn't enough production in the wide receiver room.
00:31:09They need an overhaul personnel wise, and I think they need an overhaul coaching wise
00:31:12as well.
00:31:14I'll just say it off the bat.
00:31:16I think it's fair to put both those guys in red because I think they're going to bring
00:31:19in somebody else new.
00:31:20We're already in agreement.
00:31:21Yeah.
00:31:22So like part of me wants to put in Underwood in orange, but like, I, I just don't see it.
00:31:29I think that they're going to be gone.
00:31:30I think they're going to bring in somebody new.
00:31:31So if you don't mind, take us through the candidates of who, who, who you think could
00:31:36replace those guys.
00:31:37Yes, sir.
00:31:38So honestly, if Wes Welker is still here, then there's a chance that Taekwon could say
00:31:42they have the connection since they played together in 2011.
00:31:46So there's that Rob Moore, I think currently would probably be the leading candidate.
00:31:50And he's also a guy who, Oh my God, why is it doing that?
00:31:53That's so annoying.
00:31:54Um, but he's another guy that if you did want to hire him, he'd probably have to get like
00:31:57a senior offensive assistant role or some other additional title because when he had
00:32:01to leave Tennessee, he became Carolina's wide receivers coach, but he was Mike Vrabel's
00:32:06wide receivers coach the entire time that he was head coach in Tennessee coach, AJ Brown,
00:32:11obviously went to the pro bowl in 2020.
00:32:13He also had some time, uh, coach wide receivers for the Oakland Raiders, Buffalo bills and
00:32:18his alma mater, our alma mater, rather Syracuse, um, was actually drafted in the first round
00:32:22by the jets, which is pretty interesting as well.
00:32:25So Rob Moore is a guy where if just Mike Vrabel really trusts him with the development of
00:32:29these pass catchers, then maybe you slap the title on, you bring him over.
00:32:33Um, and unfortunately, you know, we can, another young quarterbacks wide receiver core, but
00:32:37you got to do what you got to do.
00:32:38The NFL is a business people.
00:32:40Other candidates include Wes Welker, obviously just got fired by the dolphins from what we've
00:32:45heard.
00:32:46It sounds like he really was more of just, um, the scapegoat for what was a tough season
00:32:49for them.
00:32:50The Patriots connection.
00:32:51The fact that bill is no longer here and we know they had beef, so he was never going
00:32:55to end up with the Patriots as long as bill was in charge.
00:32:57But now that it's Mike Vrabel, not only did they play together, um, in 2007 and 2008,
00:33:02but also they were together in Houston under below Brian.
00:33:06So that connection, that's right.
00:33:07Yeah.
00:33:08Yeah.
00:33:09Yeah.
00:33:10Uh, Brian Hartline, who is currently the co-offense coordinator and wide receivers coach for Ohio
00:33:14state.
00:33:16He's been coaching for him from college.
00:33:17You don't need to change his title.
00:33:18Um, but Brian Hartline has just been churning out talent, a Mecca bookers, the most recent
00:33:22guy, uh, who's going to be entering the draft and likely come to the NFL and be an absolute
00:33:26stud.
00:33:27Having him develop receivers would be a huge get.
00:33:29He's also, I think a coordinator for maybe, or a candidate maybe for offensive coordinator.
00:33:33Now the fact that he doesn't have a quarterback's background, I think does hurt his development.
00:33:37If you're going to put a guy in that seat, you're thinking it's going to be an offensive
00:33:40guy, but the Ohio state connection is one where you think maybe he and Mike Vrabel might
00:33:45have some kind of a relationship.
00:33:46And then once again, shadow Shea, although it would be tough because you'd have to slap
00:33:50that role, that tag onto him for, um, for a senior offensive assistant or something
00:33:55in that lane.
00:33:56Also, I curious of how he is developing young receivers because I don't know too many Browns
00:34:02young receivers who have done really well.
00:34:05It's really like Amari Cooper is the guy you think of like Donovan people, Jones, maybe
00:34:08one, um, who is pretty solid for them.
00:34:10Um, and then, uh, Jerry, you know, I feel like he's like been in league for four years.
00:34:18He's not young.
00:34:19He had a great year, but his year really started to skyrocket once he had Jameis Winston thrown
00:34:23on the ball.
00:34:24Right.
00:34:25Like it felt like more of a vibe isn't the right word, but like a change of scenery with
00:34:29the quarterback that made him play so much better.
00:34:31Not necessarily anything shadow Shea would have or wouldn't have done.
00:34:35So, right.
00:34:36So shadow Shea is more of a name that pops off if they do hire McDaniels, but even still,
00:34:41you know, you'd have to give him a title.
00:34:42And I don't know if we're able to notice him well enough to want to do that necessarily.
00:34:44So I do think that Rob Moore is probably the leading candidate, but you can't count out
00:34:48Wes Welker because he doesn't have a job.
00:34:50That's a really easy one.
00:34:51Also again, McDaniels, it would be very easy for him to learn that because it was his,
00:34:55an offense that he played in for so long and Brian Hartline, a name that is constantly
00:34:58going to be connected to Mike variable, even if he does say at Ohio state, but you know,
00:35:03man, it would be a huge get if they could have him coaching these young receivers.
00:35:06I know we didn't want to do anything other than green for the candidates, but I think
00:35:11for this one, we can do Rob Moore green, Wes Welker orange as sort of like our, maybe not
00:35:16a backup plan because I like Wes maybe just as much, but I think, you know, putting him
00:35:20in a sort of a another option underneath Rob Moore, who you said would probably be the
00:35:26favorite, probably comfortable giving him a pass game coordinator title as well.
00:35:30Not just lower him over from Carolina, but because he's been so experienced and has done
00:35:34it for so long.
00:35:36So that's an interesting, an interesting one to look at.
00:35:39All right.
00:35:40Tight ends.
00:35:41Bob McNell killed.
00:35:42It was great.
00:35:43Uh, helped that he had two veterans to lean on in that room.
00:35:47You wonder what would happen elsewhere.
00:35:49Now.
00:35:50Uh, I think Jaheim bell was fine as a seventh round rookie.
00:35:53Not really much to complain about, uh, Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry always had great things
00:35:58to say about Jaheim bell as well and what he was doing behind the scenes.
00:36:02So I like Bicknell and green.
00:36:05I also look at Luke Steckle with the Raiders.
00:36:09Probably not.
00:36:10I mean, you wonder who they bring in, if it's Ben Johnson, maybe someone like that six around,
00:36:14but it's his job in Vegas is definitely a mystery and he worked in Tennessee under variable.
00:36:19So that could sort of be an option there too.
00:36:21But what are your thoughts on that room?
00:36:22Yeah, this one's pretty easy for me.
00:36:24One cycle is a Boston native, which is pretty interesting, but yeah, he's already the tight
00:36:28ends coaching Vegas.
00:36:29I don't know that you'd want to necessarily like use that senior advisor title, senior
00:36:33advisor, assistant, whatever title on him.
00:36:35What if he's gone though?
00:36:36When they were, what if he's gone when they rehire?
00:36:38Does that change your thought if he's not, if he's unemployed?
00:36:42Yeah.
00:36:43Yeah.
00:36:44Yeah.
00:36:45Because they're really already coached tight ends.
00:36:46He was an offensive assistant, a special assistant to the head coach for the Titans in 2013.
00:36:50So like he was around Tennessee for a while.
00:36:53He was there way before Raybel even ended up there.
00:36:56Um, also has some experience coaching receivers.
00:36:58So he's got a diverse background.
00:37:00Definitely interesting young guy, 39 years old.
00:37:02So if he gets fired, yeah, I could see them finding some kind of role for him, but I don't
00:37:05think Bicknell goes anywhere.
00:37:07He was in Kansas city, actually coaching tight ends.
00:37:09Uh, he overlapped with Mike Raybel.
00:37:11I think that was in 2010, I believe.
00:37:15Um, so I don't know if they're necessarily familiar with each other, but at least there's
00:37:19some kind of overlap there and he did really well with the veterans.
00:37:23I don't really see a reason to get rid of him.
00:37:25Also just Justin Otten, um, because he is on the list.
00:37:28I got my notes.
00:37:29Let me find him real quick.
00:37:30I lost him.
00:37:31Uh, he will, he is still the Titans, uh, tight ends coach.
00:37:35He was the running backs coach though, and run game coordinator in 2023.
00:37:39So he's a pretty interesting guy.
00:37:41Not sure where exactly they would want him to fit if he was somebody that they wanted
00:37:44to bring into the fold.
00:37:45But yeah, tight ends.
00:37:46I feel like they probably stick with Bob Bicknell.
00:37:48Uh, you mentioned that you don't know how familiar they are with each other, Bicknell
00:37:52and Braybel.
00:37:53Uh, this is pure speculation, but in my opinion, I think a guy who has caught touchdowns as
00:37:59a tight end in Superbowls in Mike Braybel probably got to Kansas city and went into
00:38:06that tight ends room and said, Hey, dude, I don't know you, but I've done this shit
00:38:10at the highest level.
00:38:12Give me a, give me some targets.
00:38:13So yeah, I'm sure they've had discussions one way or another, uh, but that's also, that's
00:38:18a good point too, because, uh, you was, you know, Braybel played, uh, some solid tight
00:38:22end for a little bit in his day as well.
00:38:24Uh, we'll wrap it up here on the offensive side with running backs before we get to another
00:38:27ad break.
00:38:28Um, Taylor Embry, uh, a guy who was with the jets last year, the Patriots this year, um,
00:38:35the running backs were tough this year.
00:38:36Ball security was an issue.
00:38:38Um, Gibson had flashes, Mandra had flashes, but that's a room where I can easily see them
00:38:44just moving off and Taylor Embry.
00:38:45I mean, it's, it's kind of tough because a running back coach's job, it's just, it's,
00:38:51it's one that it's not as easy to really define as an outsider, especially when you have veterans.
00:38:55A lot of the time, what they're doing is really just trying to prepare.
00:38:58Um, but yeah, the ball security is going to be a huge issue when you wonder if Taylor
00:39:01Embry ultimately gets the blame for that.
00:39:03Right.
00:39:04Um, the only other guy that I could really think of when I was looking was Tony Dews.
00:39:07Uh, we, you would basically swap, be swapping one former jets running backs coach for another.
00:39:12Uh, but Tony Dews was the guy who coached Eric Henry the entire time that Mike Braybel
00:39:17was in Tennessee, actually in 2023, he was the tight ends coach.
00:39:21Interestingly enough, after he had been the running backs coach from 2018 to 2022, obviously
00:39:26Derrick Henry, uh, was a pro and all pro in 2020 four time pro bowler, um, Tony Dews though,
00:39:32very diverse background.
00:39:33He's coached receivers, tight ends, running backs, linebackers, defensive linemen, offensive
00:39:38linemen, and special teams at several different college programs in the late nineties.
00:39:43And then throughout the, uh, 2000 and 2010s.
00:39:45So he's an interesting candidate that could potentially replace Embry, but I really don't
00:39:49know.
00:39:50I don't know how much, um, again, Dews is somebody who would have to get that senior
00:39:54assistant kind of title.
00:39:56If you want to take him from the jets, that's the one I'd like the most because I would
00:39:59love to, uh, hurt a team in the division.
00:40:02That would be fantastic.
00:40:03But yeah, I don't know.
00:40:04This one's a mystery.
00:40:05I'll put Taylor Embry in orange just because I don't know if, if that's something where
00:40:08Mike Braybel says, Hey, your players fumble that's on you.
00:40:11Or if that's something where he says, Hey, maybe these guys should have gotten bench
00:40:14so they can learn the lesson.
00:40:15I don't know.
00:40:16I just wonder wonder is not the right word.
00:40:20I look at Dews the same way I look at Steckl where, yeah, they're on staff right now, but
00:40:27I feel like once those coaching searches come together, it'll be easier for them to post
00:40:33those guys because they could be out of work or when Ben John, or let me give it an example
00:40:40for the jets, right?
00:40:41When Rex Ryan's a poor example, but when Rex Ryan gets the New York jets head coaching
00:40:45job and Tony Dews says, Hey, I would rather go work for Mike Braybel who I'd worked for
00:40:51in the past.
00:40:52I feel like this contract, you let them out.
00:40:54You don't need to give the title change.
00:40:56Like there's a lot of the stuff Braybel was saying about the red tape and the moving parts
00:41:02because of the playoffs and coaching searches.
00:41:03Like a lot of this is a mystery.
00:41:06So to me, like, I think it's not safe to say that he'd be here, but I think it's safe to
00:41:10say that Embry is probably gone and they'll find somebody else.
00:41:13Do you think Red's too strong?
00:41:18I do just because I don't think there's any, another obvious candidate.
00:41:21I think that Dews probably would have to get fired for him to be in the conversation.
00:41:26Okay.
00:41:27So let's go Embry.
00:41:28Let's go Embry orange.
00:41:29But I think we can put Dews in green as sort of our, I guess it's the lone favorite there
00:41:34because it's the only option there, but it gives us a, it gives us an option over.
00:41:38It's not as easy as the roster audit.
00:41:40Yeah, it's not, but it's okay.
00:41:42It's a conversation.
00:41:44It's a way to, uh, give everyone some familiarity with some guys who could potentially come
00:41:49in.
00:41:50So we'll wrap it up with the defense.
00:41:51We'll talk about special teams in a moment, but first a word from our friends over at
00:41:55game time.
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00:42:44What time is it?
00:42:45Game time.
00:42:46Good answer.
00:42:47Uh, looking at the game time app, I did sell this a lot this week, uh, but for shits and
00:42:53giggles, Baltimore Ravens at Buffalo bills, Sunday night in Buffalo.
00:42:58If anybody feels like going to take the trip, $151 to get in sounds like a lot compared
00:43:04to the prices we've talked about with the Patriots this year, but to go in for a buck
00:43:0850 and go watch the best game of the weekend.
00:43:10I don't hate it.
00:43:11That's the all in price with game time, no fees, no, uh, no taxes on that.
00:43:17You got to pay taxes, but that one 50 that's all included because you toggle on all in
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00:43:32Uh, and I'll ask you again, Taylor, what time is it?
00:43:35Game time.
00:43:36Good answer.
00:43:38It is also time to wrap up our coaching audit with the defensive side of the football to
00:43:42Marcus Covington, right off the bat, rip the bandaid off.
00:43:46Will he be back next season?
00:43:48Um, yeah, I mean, in a different capacity, he's a good defensive line coach.
00:43:57He is a good defensive line coach.
00:43:59Great.
00:44:00Um, I think he understands what the Patriots want to do.
00:44:02And I think philosophically Mike Vrabel is very similar in what he likes to do with the
00:44:05defensive line.
00:44:07Um, that said, there are, it's tough to say because if like, for example, Terrell Williams
00:44:13wants to come over and he's not a defensive coordinator, I could see him being the defensive
00:44:17line coach.
00:44:18So maybe, but I do think that Covington is a respected coach.
00:44:21Um, and I think especially because that room already knows him and he's been there so long,
00:44:24I could see him just going back to his old job because I don't think he's going to get
00:44:29a coordinator job anywhere for sure.
00:44:31Um, although I do think anywhere would hire him, not anywhere, obviously, but I think
00:44:35a lot of places would be interested in him if he did shake free.
00:44:37So I think putting him in orange is fair, but as coordinator, he's not going to be back
00:44:42here.
00:44:43But that's what we did for the other ones.
00:44:44It's just like, all right, this is going to come back in another role.
00:44:48Is he going to take a demotion in the same place?
00:44:49He's not going to, he can't take the same job somewhere else.
00:44:52What's he going to do?
00:44:54I mean, obviously, yes, he could leave, but I don't know.
00:44:57All right.
00:44:58Cause I think a hundred percent, he should be fired like from the whole team.
00:45:02I don't know.
00:45:03I don't know about that.
00:45:04Yeah.
00:45:05All right.
00:45:06Fine.
00:45:07I guess Fred, I mean, I guess, excuse me, orange is fine, but tell us about these candidates
00:45:08because you, uh, you piqued my interest with this, uh, Terrell Williams guy, uh, was an
00:45:13assistant in Tennessee.
00:45:14So tell me about him.
00:45:15And then also the other guys, uh, in a room of Bowen and Schwartz.
00:45:18Yeah.
00:45:19So Terrell Williams is the kind of guy I could see getting like a coordinator at the very
00:45:22least some type of like senior defensive assistant kind of role.
00:45:26The Patriots didn't have one at all last year, um, which was a very interesting choice when
00:45:30you had a first time, you know, defensive coordinator, and you also didn't give him
00:45:35any coach, any help from his, uh, head coach who was previously in the job support is,
00:45:41but I digress, but Terrell Williams, really interesting guy.
00:45:44So currently the Detroit lions, defensive line coach and run game coordinator, I'm assuming
00:45:48for the defensive side of the ball though, um, the work that Detroit's done after losing
00:45:52Aiden Hutchinson and a lot of other key players has been outstanding.
00:45:56He seems like a very well-respected guy as well before he landed this season in Detroit
00:46:01He was defensive line coach for the Titans.
00:46:03The entire time that Mike Vrabel was there, it's also the assistant head coach in 2023.
00:46:08So clearly a guy that Mike Vrabel holds very close, um, in terms of his, uh, uh, someone
00:46:14that he respects.
00:46:15He coached Jarrell Casey, who was a five-time pro bowler.
00:46:18He coached Jeffrey Simmons, a two-time pro bowler and Harold Landry who went to the pro
00:46:22bowl in 2021 under his tutelage.
00:46:24So Terrell Williams definitely seems like a guy that Mike Vrabel would try to get, especially
00:46:29he's been in Detroit for a year.
00:46:30That's a pretty valuable experience after him.
00:46:32I'd say Lou and a rumo just cause he is one of the hottest names as the former defensive
00:46:37coordinator for the bangles, a kind of guy who's probably going to stay there forever.
00:46:40If you want them, I don't know that he's going to necessarily get head coaching opportunities
00:46:44because he's an older defensive coach.
00:46:46Uh, but the biggest issue for him in Cincinnati was he didn't really adjust his defense to
00:46:50the young players.
00:46:51I think it was hard for them to pick up and he didn't like incorporating them.
00:46:54That is a red flag.
00:46:55And you're hoping that maybe he learned his lesson and would be willing to adapt at his
00:46:58future job.
00:46:59But the Patriots have a ton of veterans on the defensive side of the ball.
00:47:03I don't think that'd be as much of an issue.
00:47:05Um, and then there are a couple of candidates really quickly, Shane Bowen.
00:47:08He was Vrabel's defensive coordinator in Tennessee that said, I'm not sure, um, if he's actually
00:47:15going to leave the giants.
00:47:16It sounds like the giants are actually planning on keeping him.
00:47:19Yeah.
00:47:20So I don't really think he's a high candidate, but if he were to shake loose, obviously I
00:47:23think Mike Vrabel would be interested in him.
00:47:25So I was hesitant to even name any guys who were more in the defensive front when it came
00:47:31to defensive coordinator, especially if you're not like a middle linebackers coach where
00:47:34they do see a lot of the defense, but Shane Bowen was an outside linebackers coach before
00:47:39he was promoted to coordinator.
00:47:41So when I was thinking of Terrell Williams, I'm thinking, all right, if an outside linebackers
00:47:44coach can be the coordinator, I think he'd be okay with someone like Terrell Williams,
00:47:48or at least in some capacity.
00:47:49And then Jim Schwartz, um, these two actually overlap Mike Vrabel and Jim Schwartz in Tennessee.
00:47:54He was a senior defensive assistant from 2021 to 2022 would need an additional title
00:47:59because he's currently the Browns defensive coordinator.
00:48:02But I thought he was a pretty interesting name as another potential candidate.
00:48:05Jim Schwartz would be a slam dunk to me.
00:48:07A guy who's done it in the past at a very high level across the NFL.
00:48:10Wasn't great as a head coach in Detroit for those years, but I mean, he's been a kickass
00:48:14DC kind of reminds me of, uh, who's the, who's the guy in Kansas city, uh, Steve Spagnuolo
00:48:19in that role where great DC, the adjustment to head coach struggled, but people keep them
00:48:23around.
00:48:24And I liked the overlap in Tennessee as well.
00:48:26They've worked in two places together, but I think from this list, like my favorite is
00:48:30Terrell Williams.
00:48:31I like that.
00:48:32I like that idea.
00:48:33I think I put him in green, um, because of the fact that he was the assistant head coach
00:48:37to Vrabel.
00:48:38That is like, I can rely on you to not just help my defense, but sort of be in my ear
00:48:43as well.
00:48:44Um, so that feels like a sort of slam dunk to me if, and when they inevitably move on,
00:48:48uh, from DeMarcus Covington, senior assistant, I feel like Terrell Williams is in that role.
00:48:54I don't really think we need to touch it here because any of those notable that they didn't
00:48:58have one.
00:48:59It's good to keep it there.
00:49:01Um, but any of those four candidates, Williams, Anna Rumo, Bowen, and, uh, Jim Schwartz, you
00:49:06probably don't need a senior assistant, especially with Mike Vrabel being a defensive guy on
00:49:10his own.
00:49:11So let's get to these DBs coaches.
00:49:12I kind of want to group them all together because it's all sort of, yeah, they've sort
00:49:16of come in the same or they've sort of stuck together the same Pellegrino and Brian Belichick
00:49:22and they stayed over from the bill era to the Mayo era.
00:49:26You wonder if they make the leap again, Pellegrino posted something on his Instagram yesterday,
00:49:33like congratulating Christian Gonzalez on an all pro.
00:49:36And it kind of sounded like could have been a goodbye.
00:49:40I don't know.
00:49:41I think he was just acknowledging the fact that he's coached three all pros.
00:49:43I think so too.
00:49:44Uh, I think so too.
00:49:45And I hope he's back, uh, because he's been outstanding here and same with Brian Belichick.
00:49:50I still think that there's a chance Brian takes the lead to North Carolina.
00:49:54Now his family's here and he stayed, um, through the Mayo era.
00:49:58So there's clearly, uh, he clearly likes being here enough where the, the saga between his
00:50:03dad and Mayo happened and he's still stuck around.
00:50:06Um, but so I like them in green.
00:50:09I think if you can keep them, you do keep them.
00:50:12But if they ultimately move on, uh, your thoughts on the rest of the candidates and, and thoughts
00:50:16on Pellegrino and, uh, Belichick staying around as well.
00:50:19Yeah, I think the only way that they leave is if they get fired.
00:50:21I think they're too accomplished coaches who have experience with a lot of these players.
00:50:25I think a lot of the players in their rooms are going to be back.
00:50:28So I don't think there's going to be any rush to get them out of the building unless Ray
00:50:31bull feels very, very compelled to bring in one of his guys.
00:50:34Um, but really one thing also about this list, all of these people are pretty much candidates
00:50:39for defensive coordinator really, um, because where they are right now, a lot of them would
00:50:43need some kind of promotion to even get to the Patriots.
00:50:47So senior assistants, head coach or coordinator, like they're all in the same kind of vein.
00:50:51Oh, there are some guys I like more in that kind of category.
00:50:55One of them is Scott Booker, currently the bill's nickel coach and a senior defensive
00:51:00assistant.
00:51:01So he's the kind of guy where you would probably have to make him like a defensive coordinator.
00:51:06I think maybe making him like defensive backs coach would be enough.
00:51:09I don't know if that's necessarily promotion from nickel where the bills are one of the
00:51:13few teams.
00:51:14I don't know about few, I actually don't know how many teams do it, but I don't think it's
00:51:17super common to have specifically a nickel coach because it's a bit of a hybrid safety
00:51:21corner, uh, kind of position.
00:51:23So he stands out.
00:51:25He was the Tennessee's, uh, safety coach from 2020 to 2023 coach, Kevin Byard, who was an
00:51:30all pro and pro boar in 2021.
00:51:32Uh, he was a defensive assistant for the Titans before that, but clearly a guy who's pretty
00:51:36well respected to go to the bills and immediately be a senior defensive assistant.
00:51:40So I think maybe that title was so that they could take him.
00:51:43Um, I'm not sure.
00:51:44I don't know that he got fired from Tennessee, maybe they tried to keep him around and that
00:51:48was the only way they could get him, but he's the guy that stands out, uh, Cary Coombs trying
00:51:53to see his, so he is right now he's an Ohio guy.
00:51:56So I think that's how he and Mike Vrabel are connected.
00:51:59He, uh, right now is the cornerbacks and special teams coach and has been since 2022, uh, for
00:52:06the university of Cincinnati, but he was Ohio state's defensive coordinator from 2020 to
00:52:102021 and was their cornerbacks coach from 2012 to 2017.
00:52:14Also coach special teams in 2013 to 2017, he was the Titans defensive backs coach from
00:52:202018 to 2019.
00:52:22That's kind of like a very loose history with the Titans.
00:52:24So he's not like a top name necessarily, especially because it seems like he's much more
00:52:28comfortable in college, but at least someone to acknowledge he's about 63 years old guy
00:52:32with a lot of experience.
00:52:34And then Chris Harris, uh, he's another pretty interesting candidate.
00:52:37He, uh, was the Titans defensive pass game coordinator and quarterbacks, cornerbacks
00:52:42coach, uh, in 2023.
00:52:44He currently is as well.
00:52:45Also it was a second team, all pro safety when he was in Chicago, he's 42 years old.
00:52:50So when you talk about defensive backs, it seems like those are the top candidates.
00:52:54Again, Scott Booker is the one that stands out the most Chris Harris.
00:52:57Those two, I think could potentially be defensive coordinator candidates and then
00:53:01Cary Coombs lose connection there because he wasn't in Tennessee for super long, but
00:53:05at least the name that should be acknowledged.
00:53:06All right.
00:53:07I like it.
00:53:07Um, I think plan a plan B and plan C should be keeping Pellegrino as well as, uh, but
00:53:15some decent options if they don't.
00:53:17Now, I think this is another room, excuse me, room, uh, rooms that we can group
00:53:23together in the D line and the backers.
00:53:25Um, especially cause there's not a ton of potential, uh, candidates here, but.
00:53:30Drew Wilkins, uh, defensive coordinator of the shrine bowl this year.
00:53:34Um, he worked with Ryan Cowden, who we talked about the other day is the,
00:53:38the, um, the executive front office executive that Vrabel is bringing over
00:53:43from the giants, I think Drew Wilkins can be put in green as well.
00:53:48I think he is the top candidate to stick around.
00:53:51Jerry Montgomery also helps.
00:53:53I couldn't find anybody who could replace him.
00:53:55Yeah, exactly.
00:53:56Same with Jerry.
00:53:57Like I wonder Jerry Montgomery.
00:53:58I just wonder if he stays or if he goes, um, that'll also depend on
00:54:02defensive coordinator because, you know, Terrell Williams was a defensive line
00:54:05coach if DeMarcus Covington does want to take a step back and go back to the D
00:54:09line, he would be a candidate there.
00:54:11Do you see Jerry Montgomery coming back?
00:54:13Or is that like, uh, I guess my question is orange or red.
00:54:19Is there no shot?
00:54:20So Jerry survived a lot of regime changes in green Bay, but also it
00:54:25seemed like there was a disconnect between him and DeMarcus Covington.
00:54:28Coming from mentioned, you know, when it came to rushing the pastor, the way
00:54:31the Patriots do it, that kind of felt like a shot, maybe not a shot, but it
00:54:35seemed like he was saying that there was some miscommunication between those two.
00:54:39So I don't know.
00:54:40Um, it depends on what kind of style I think for able wants to deploy, but I
00:54:47would say, I think we need to, I was going to say, I think we need to
00:54:50incorporate some red on the, on the defense.
00:54:52We need some harshness here.
00:54:53No offense to Jerry Montgomery, but you want to go red?
00:54:57We can go red.
00:54:58Yeah.
00:54:58Yeah.
00:54:59Cause I just don't know.
00:55:00I really don't know.
00:55:01And again, this is another one where I don't have a ton of candidates either.
00:55:03Right.
00:55:03Um, so the defensive line, the way they handle that will definitely be interesting.
00:55:07What about high tower?
00:55:08Does high tower stick around?
00:55:09No real overlap with rabble, but another former linebacker who played with the
00:55:13Patriots, uh, tough to tell what kind of job he did this year, just with the, all
00:55:17the attrition at the position, uh, obviously losing Juwan Bentley was massive.
00:55:22Uh, and then.
00:55:23Even a talkie talkie coming back as sort of a, was, was injured for a lot of the
00:55:29season, wasn't great, but you wonder how much of that is on coaching.
00:55:32Uh, but do you see high tower coming back?
00:55:34And if not, what about these other candidates that you, yeah, excuse
00:55:36me, that you were able to dig up?
00:55:38If high tower does come back, I think it's probably going
00:55:40to be in a reduced capacity.
00:55:42I think that it was a lot for him last season.
00:55:45Um, even he admitted that he took him a while to kind of get going.
00:55:48So I think he's an orange.
00:55:50He can return because I think this is still a team that he knows.
00:55:53And I think he would like to learn from somebody like rabble, another Patriots
00:55:56great in that outside linebacker spot.
00:55:58But yeah, I, I'm just, I'm not sure that he's, I don't think he's
00:56:01going to be the linebackers coach.
00:56:02Um, other potential candidates would be, uh, Oh my goodness.
00:56:06I scrolled on the wrong thing.
00:56:07There we go.
00:56:09Oh, some other candidates would be Jim Haslett.
00:56:11He was the Seattle sea dragons head coach in 2023, but he coached inside linebackers.
00:56:18Yeah.
00:56:18I think I just had linebackers for the Titans from 2020, 2021.
00:56:23Then we got Bobby King.
00:56:24Who's doing pretty well right now.
00:56:26He is the inside linebackers coach for the Eagles.
00:56:28Um, coach, obviously Zach bond, who's a pro board this season.
00:56:32Hopefully maybe he shakes loose and ends up in with the Patriots, but, uh, Tennessee,
00:56:37he was there inside linebackers coach from 2022 to 2023.
00:56:40He also was the, uh, Houston Texans linebackers coach under Mike
00:56:44Vrabel, who was then the defensive coordinator in 2017.
00:56:48So Bobby King, if you wanted to bring him over, um, assuming he isn't, you
00:56:51know, assuming he keeps his job there, you probably have to give him another
00:56:54kind of title, but those are the two coordinates I found, uh, for the linebacker
00:56:58spot.
00:56:58So I think it's going to be a different name there for sure.
00:57:01Uh, and if Dante Eistauer stays, he's going to have a different job.
00:57:04I think, yeah, hard to put a favorite on it.
00:57:06I think we're good for our, uh, for our colors and notes there on the defense.
00:57:10It's going to be a mystery and it's obviously going to depend
00:57:12on who they bring in at DC.
00:57:14Um, but let's wrap it up with the special teams.
00:57:16And I have a question for you.
00:57:17Was it a typo that you had Kyle Duggar and Del Pettis on the special teams thing?
00:57:22Why was it?
00:57:22Oh yeah.
00:57:23Because I used the template from the other thing.
00:57:25I saw them when we, when I was doing the show prep, I'm like, does he think these
00:57:29guys are going to coach special teams this year?
00:57:30Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:57:35We'll start with Tom Quinn.
00:57:36Um, someone who worked with Rabel in Tennessee.
00:57:39I like him in green, whether it's an assistant or they elevate them.
00:57:43I think that makes a ton of sense.
00:57:44Uh, I don't know if you have any other thoughts on that.
00:57:47Um, but then as far as the coordinator spot goes, I think Springer was fine.
00:57:50And I would, uh, think that he would be a candidate, if not the
00:57:54leading candidate to stick around.
00:57:56But if they don't, what are some other options?
00:57:58Yeah.
00:57:59So I agree.
00:57:59I think Jeremy Springer probably keeps a job.
00:58:01Tom Quinn has experience with Mike Vrabel.
00:58:03I think he's definitely going to stay there.
00:58:05So I think Springer in green is pretty fair.
00:58:07He did a good job last year.
00:58:08I think the energy he brings is really unique.
00:58:10I think he's also a pretty highly respected coach.
00:58:12Also, there's some overlap.
00:58:14The former Rams, uh, or I don't know if he still is, uh, Chase
00:58:17Blackburn was Jeremy Springer's boss.
00:58:19He was a special teams, uh, coach for the Rams.
00:58:22He actually overlapped and was on the Titans for a year.
00:58:24So it's not a direct connection, obviously, but there's
00:58:27a little something there.
00:58:28Uh, but some other
00:58:29something where Vrabel can give him a call and be like, Hey,
00:58:32what do you think of Springer?
00:58:33Give him a, give him a vouch.
00:58:34And then, yeah, okay.
00:58:35We'll get it right from Tom Quinn, whatever he wants.
00:58:36He's got options.
00:58:37Um, but other options would be Craig Aukerman.
00:58:40Uh, he was Tennessee special teams coordinator from 2018 to 2023.
00:58:44Vrabel's entire tenure.
00:58:45He coached Brett Kern, who was a 2019 all pro in a two-time pro
00:58:48bowler and Morgan Cox, the long snapper who went to the pro bowl in 2020.
00:58:53Um, Aukerman was also the Tennessee assistant special teams coordinator
00:58:56in 2017 also did special teams for the chargers.
00:59:00So he's an option right now.
00:59:02It doesn't have a job.
00:59:02So he's just floating around.
00:59:03Maybe he joins the staff at some capacity.
00:59:05Anyway, Anthony Levine as well.
00:59:07He's still with the Titans as an assistant special teams coach,
00:59:10two-time super bowl champion with the Ravens, a former player.
00:59:13Uh, you know, clearly Vrabel can relate to those kinds of guys.
00:59:16So those are some other candidates to maybe join the
00:59:18staff in one way or another.
00:59:19Anthony Levine, it would probably take a promotion because he currently is
00:59:22an assistant special teams coach.
00:59:24Uh, but yeah, I think this is probably going to be a room
00:59:26that largely looks the same.
00:59:27Love it.
00:59:28And that's our audit.
00:59:29Great.
00:59:29Hey, what's it look like?
00:59:31Let's zoom out.
00:59:32What does it look like?
00:59:33Oh, wait, Dan working with too many screens here.
00:59:36All right.
00:59:36Oh yeah.
00:59:37That's it.
00:59:37That looks about right.
00:59:38That looks about right.
00:59:40A lot of mysteries.
00:59:41Uh, a couple of reds just cause we felt like we had to, uh, some greens.
00:59:45A lot of the greens in the candidates department, we'll see how
00:59:48everything ends up shaking out.
00:59:50Uh, but that is a 30,000 foot view of where the Patriots could go with
00:59:54their coaching staff in 2025.
00:59:57Obviously really quick Slater is yes.
01:00:00A special teams assistant, but kind of those like lower types of assistants.
01:00:03I didn't really include in this, um, like, like those kinds of
01:00:07guys I didn't really have in there.
01:00:08Um, I think Slater sticks around if he wants to, there's no reason
01:00:11to get rid of a Matthew Slater.
01:00:14The only assistants I really led on were some of the more prominent guys, the
01:00:17guys who were lower level, um, like, especially in their first years I left
01:00:20off with the Slater was also, uh, this other comment, I don't know if it, I
01:00:25don't think it was specific to special teams.
01:00:26Now he, he was in the room with, uh, with Wolf and Mayo when they like
01:00:31told school or he got the all pro or the, the pro bowl nod, his title was
01:00:36technically like special assistant to the head coach, um, that was sort
01:00:40of a, uh, Gerard Mayo assigned role.
01:00:42But there's obviously the chance that he does still stick around.
01:00:45If he wants to keep coaching, I'm sure he's familiar with
01:00:47Mike Vrabel, uh, in some capacity.
01:00:50But, uh, so yeah, that's our audit.
01:00:51I think, uh, again, that this gives, uh, people listening and even us,
01:00:56especially me a chance to kind of look at where this thing could go.
01:00:59So Taylor, I appreciate you doing all the research for it, looking at all
01:01:02these candidates, uh, and giving us an idea of who Mike Vrabel could potentially
01:01:08hire, um, so that's going to do it here on Patriots daily for this Friday.
01:01:13We'll be back again next week, diving into it.
01:01:15Hopefully we have some real.
01:01:18Coordinator interviews, coach interviews to react to on the pod.
01:01:22If anything ever happens, if news ever drops, we will be here as soon
01:01:25as possible on Patriots press pass.
01:01:27So make sure you hit that subscribe button rate review and subscribe as well.
01:01:32You can subscribe on the audio feed as well.
01:01:34That gives us a little bit of help as well.
01:01:36If you listen on audio and not on video, uh, we always appreciate it.
01:01:41So thank you for listening, Taylor.
01:01:42Like I said, thank you for giving us all of the info on the potential
01:01:46staff and until next time, everyone take care of yourselves, take care of each
01:01:50other, and we will see you next week.
01:01:52Peace out of Rome.

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