Greg Bedard and Nick Cattles discuss the latest as new Patriots head coach Mike Vrabel begins the search for his support staff. Does he have the ability to select wisely? Who will it be?Plus, they react to the recent talk about Drake Maye not attending Vrabel's press conference and whether it means anything.
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SportsTranscript
00:00This is the Gregg Bidard Patriots podcast with Nick Cavins.
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00:47All right, let's start here.
00:51I don't know how much time you want to spend on this.
00:54Hopefully not a lot, but there was some things being made, Gregg, about Drake May not being
01:01at Mike Vrabel's introductory press conference.
01:04Of course, we found out that Drake was on vacation.
01:07He was not only on vacation, he was also getting engaged.
01:11To you at any point, was it a big deal?
01:14Was it a deal at all that May was not at Vrabel's presser?
01:18It's absolutely no deal at all.
01:21It's not a big deal.
01:22Not a little deal.
01:24Nobody cares.
01:25It's not important.
01:28I can't believe this was a long, plentiful topic of discussion.
01:37I mean, look, he doesn't need to be there.
01:43Nobody cares.
01:44Nobody cares in the building.
01:45Nobody cares on his team.
01:46Mike Vrabel doesn't care.
01:47Nobody cares.
01:48All you care about is, is he there in April when off-season workouts start, the OTAs,
01:55the off-season workouts, all that stuff.
01:59That's the only thing that matters.
02:01To me, it's just ridiculous.
02:03I don't know why people even react to it.
02:09Just let it go.
02:11Just know that in the NFL world, it doesn't matter.
02:16It doesn't matter.
02:17It doesn't matter one IOTA.
02:19I couldn't care less if Drake May was in Cabo, if he was in Miami, if he was in Sheboygan.
02:27I don't care.
02:28I don't care.
02:30It's his off-season.
02:31He just got done with the season where he took a lot of hits, right?
02:35He got smoked a number of times.
02:37A lot was put on his plate in his rookie season.
02:40If the young man wants to unwind and go on a vacation, I've got no problem whatsoever
02:45with it.
02:47I think there were two or three players at the introductory presser.
02:50Those guys, I think, Greg, correct me if I'm wrong, they live around the area.
02:55You can just take the trip over to Gillette and be like, all right, I'm here.
03:00I don't know if we can go back in time, but I would love to go back in time if somebody
03:09has the video or audio.
03:13Was there a stink made that Mack Jones was at Gerard Mayo's presser?
03:17I know people were like, oh, Mack Jones is there, but did that mean that Mack Jones was
03:22a better quarterback or a better employee than Drake May is?
03:27I think a lot of people didn't care much about Mack Jones being at the press conference.
03:32As a matter of fact, I think some people, you know who you are, I think some people
03:37criticize Mack Jones for being at the press conference because they thought he was going
03:41to be gone.
03:42Which way do we want it for those people?
03:44I will say on that topic, on Mack Jones being there, I do remember last year I reported
03:52at the time that people who were on the Patriots staff thought it was a complete joke that
03:59Mack Jones was there.
04:01At least one of the coaches told me, and I don't know if this is true, but one of the
04:05coaches was like, you know, he cleaned out his locker in like 0.2 seconds when the season
04:12was over, like didn't even leave a hanger in his locker.
04:15And then all of a sudden, you know, he like popped over like he was still part of the
04:19team.
04:20They, people on the staff thought it was a big joke.
04:24For Drake, big fat ass, nothing burger.
04:28And congratulations to you, Drake, and your wonderful future wife.
04:32I hope you had the vacation of your lifetime so you can refresh yourself, reset.
04:38And when football starts and you start doing these workouts, you are mentally and physically
04:43in the best possible shape that you can be in.
04:46So congratulations to you, sir.
04:48By the way, two quick things on that.
04:51Number one, number one, if I'm Drake May or anybody else and the way the weather is this
05:00year around here, there's no way in hell I'm leaving someplace warm to come back here for
05:05even like 30, 30 minutes.
05:07Not a chance.
05:08No matter what's going on, like it can wait.
05:12And there was one other thing, but I just, it just went out of my head.
05:16Oh, the other thing I was going to say is, you know, when these things kind of happen,
05:22I like to put myself in those people's shoes.
05:24And I, I don't think it's a stretch to say, you know, given Drake and, and I didn't love
05:30him not talking either after the season finale or the next day.
05:33I didn't.
05:34I agree with that.
05:35I agree with that.
05:36Yeah.
05:38That can't go on anymore past this year.
05:40But cut him a break this year.
05:43And plus Mayo had just been fired, you know, which meant the coaches had just been fired.
05:48You really, you really can't win by saying anything if you're Drake May.
05:53So I think he was just like, look, I'm out.
05:55I'm not going to say anything because either way it's going to get twisted.
05:58But about him not showing up like for Vrabel, put yourself in his shoes.
06:04He just spent his first professional season with these coaches, especially the offensive
06:09coach, offensive coaches, Alex Van Pelt, TC McCartney, Ben McAdoo, what have you.
06:16And you know, these guys are now in, you know, all things considered and you know, they didn't
06:24do a terrible job, especially when it came to Drake May.
06:28And I don't know, you know, being there for Vrabel, like, you know, it's great, but you're
06:33sort of like tap dancing on the graves of guys you just worked with, with six months
06:37day in and day out.
06:40And you did a pretty good job as a quarterback.
06:42So I can see him just being like, look, Mike Vrabel is the new coach.
06:47Let me let it breathe a little bit.
06:48And then, you know, I'll be all in come April and let's go.
06:52One last thing on this.
06:55I don't think anybody's brought this up during this conversation, but Vrabel was asked on
07:00Monday during the press conference, if he had spoken to Drake and he said, yes.
07:04So who knows what was said in that conversation?
07:09It's it's quite possible.
07:10And I would even say it's reasonable that when Vrabel spoke to may may might've told
07:17him, Hey, I'm going away on vacation coach.
07:20Like so, you know, over the next week or so I'm, I'm going to be on vacation.
07:25Should I go on vacation?
07:27Should I, you know, maybe he even asked the coach.
07:29Should I postpone the vacation for a couple of weeks?
07:32So Vrabel said he spoke to may before his press conference.
07:36So I'm sure that Vrabel was well aware of what was going on in Drake's life.
07:41And I'm sure Drake had a good conversation with the coach and it's like, all right, well,
07:45you know, we'll see you when you get to the facility, but people just overlook that.
07:50So anyway, uh, something else popped up last night, Greg Kirkman, a hand, another nothing
07:55burger.
07:56Well, we'll, we'll see.
07:57We'll see.
07:58Uh, Kirkman, a hand tweeted out that, uh, Robin Glazer was gone, right?
08:09I want to get this exact, I want to make sure I get this exact.
08:13What was said here was the tweet, Robin Glazer, no longer with the Patriots organization.
08:18She was executive VP of football business, senior advisor to Gerard Mayo last season.
08:22But Brea went on a Zolak and Bertrand today and said that she is still involved first.
08:30What are you hearing?
08:31Greg?
08:32Uh, I am hearing nothing because I don't care and, um, I really don't care.
08:40And I didn't care about her role, uh, this past year.
08:44What have you, even though other people like bill Belichick and Mike Lombardi and Michael
08:50Felger, and even though they wanted to make a big deal out of it now, look, this is sort
08:57of, um, and by the way, I can't, it's only January.
09:01We have so freaking long to go and I'm already sick and tired of, of crap.
09:07Um, this is, this is just, you can roll this into Elliot Wolf being the devil.
09:14Um, Alex Van Pelt being stupid, Robin Glazer, like these are things like people are just
09:22out of control in this market.
09:24Um, look, here's the truth.
09:27And I, I don't know because I haven't called because I don't care, like I said, but my
09:32read on this is, um, and Robin took a step back from, from, you know, being intimately
09:41involved with football, um, about, I don't know, early last season, the middle of the
09:46last season, something like that.
09:48I would be surprised if she's not, um, part of the Patriots organization, at least the
09:54craft group, because she, before Mayo came aboard, like she was really far, far away
10:01or maybe towards the end of Belichick.
10:02She was really far, far away from football operations.
10:05She's, you know, legal counsel, um, helped with all their businesses, but, you know,
10:12a lot of people, and I'll say this, I know from talking to people who know her, um, this
10:20year was not fun for her.
10:23And I think you could say that about a lot of people in this organization, um, because
10:29a lot of people had to do things that weren't part of their job description before.
10:34And this is all because of the crafts, because they put, they did the Gerard Mayo thing and
10:39they needed to support Gerard Mayo in different ways.
10:41Like you could say like from Robin Glazer to Elliot Wolf to, uh, you know, you can name
10:49other people, people that had to do a lot more than what their job description really
10:53entails.
10:54And it, and it was not a fun year for a lot of people in this organization because of
10:59the crafts decision, which they ultimately said, you know what?
11:03We F this up.
11:05We're not doing this again and we're getting rabble and blah, blah, blah.
11:08Um, you know, I think that, uh, you know, like I said, Rob, Robin was put in a difficult
11:16position.
11:16I don't think that's where she wanted to be.
11:18I think she was a, she was a proxy for Jonathan, uh, Jonathan craft, which is really why she
11:24was being brought up.
11:25It was, she was being brought up instead of saying Jonathan craft or tweaking him
11:31directly, they, they would do that.
11:33And, uh, I just thought it was, you know, really unfair, uh, for a lot of people, it
11:39was a red herring.
11:40It's not really what's important.
11:43Um, what's important was that the crafts F'd up.
11:46They, they corrected that they made the decision, they moved on and can we all move
11:51on and just like, let people get it back to doing their real jobs that they were hired
11:56to do for the crafts and the Patriots and stop all this sandbox playground bullcrap.
12:04Yeah.
12:04I think a couple of things here, number one, you know, Glazer's role has been
12:09exaggerated from the beginning.
12:11It started with the wicker sham story from ESPN.
12:14I would say though, that if she has been removed from the circle and I'm not saying
12:20she was making football decisions, but if she's just moved away from the circle, that
12:25does mean something to me because a, the crafts are letting football people now do
12:31football people things and they're, and they're streamlining it as well.
12:34Right?
12:35Like you don't need the extra voice now that you've got Mike Vrabel, you don't
12:38need the senior advisor to Mike Vrabel.
12:41So I do think it's important when you look at less voices that, that don't
12:46necessarily, you know, if the voice doesn't have to be there, then, then remove
12:49the voice and get the football people in the room and let the football people do
12:52the football jobs, um, to, to come full circle.
12:57I would also say that Jerry Thornton for what it's worth.
13:00Uh, he has tweeted about, you know, what, what Kirk reported last night.
13:08And Jerry said, to be fair to, to Minahan's reporting on Glazer, I've
13:12heard from people with multiple sources inside the Patriots confirming the same
13:15thing.
13:16So look, she's probably just not involved with, with as much as she was involved
13:22with last year, even if what she was involved with last year, wasn't
13:25necessarily a gigantic deal.
13:27It's she's been removed.
13:29Let her do what she does.
13:31As Greg said, stop asking people to do things that they're not equipped to do
13:35or want to do, get them the hell out of there and let the people work.
13:41And it goes for Elliot Wolf too.
13:42And again, people will think this is a major defense.
13:45I'm not excusing the moves that he made.
13:48I'm not excusing, uh, you know, or defending some of the decisions that he
13:53made, but I think it's fair.
13:56So look at this operation and say it was an unmitigated shit show in 2024, and
14:02that impacted everybody at every level.
14:05And it impacted Mayo.
14:06Yes, but it also impacted Wolf.
14:09It impacted everybody.
14:10And so how do you, how do you figure out, I've asked this question to Greg and
14:15I've said this on the radio and, and, and some people think, um, you know, Oh,
14:20you're just standing up for Elliot Wolf.
14:21No, I'm not.
14:23I'm not.
14:23I'm, I'm, I'm fine with Wolf being pushed aside and Vrabel and Cowden having the
14:27call, but I think it matters when you look at this rookie class, just take
14:32Elliot Wolf out of it, you have a full rookie class, we don't know how much
14:39the operation effed those guys up.
14:42We don't know if Jalen Polk can be useful even as a number three or four receiver.
14:46So let me see a group of coaches that actually know what they're doing,
14:50work with these guys and let's see if they can bring anything to the table to
14:55write them off after one year anyway, is ridiculous.
14:58Greg and I have talked about that.
14:59Neither of us believe you should write any rookie off after one year, no
15:03matter how bad the rookie look, you've got to give everybody at
15:06least two years in the program.
15:08So let's see if Vrabel and hopefully a coaching staff that is much more
15:13experienced and better can get more out of these guys.
15:16All right.
15:16Before we get to offensive coordinator, speaking to the staff, Greg wants
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17:13Greg, I know you've said that Vrabel is going to take his time with this
17:15offensive coordinator search, but I gotta be honest here.
17:18I didn't think that so much time.
17:20I was going to say, I'm surprised that there's not a single name being
17:23leaked and that there's, there's no interview requests being sent out.
17:27I thought we'd have at least a couple of names at this point.
17:30What what's going on?
17:31Yeah, I, I don't know.
17:33I wish I could tell you, Nick, this is odd.
17:36I think you noted that he said something about as a press
17:38conference, like this afternoon, we're going to be doing like, you know, X, Y,
17:41and Z, or at least getting going on this.
17:43Um, including perhaps, uh, talking to some people, um, I, I really
17:50don't understand what's going on.
17:52And, um, you know, normally, you know, these types of things, like, you know,
17:58the national people are going to own this stuff as far as like the news
18:01leaking and stuff like that, because they have relationships with these agents
18:04and stuff and it's, you know, sort of a warehouse for them, it's, you know,
18:08fine, whatever, um, but, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh, you know, maybe Mike
18:14Vrabel, um, had a tropical vacation lined up, maybe, uh, uh, a vow renewal
18:20with his wife, maybe went down to see Drake May himself.
18:22Uh, I, I don't know, but, um, I assume we're going to get going here.
18:28Uh, yeah, I'm surprised.
18:30Uh, I don't know what's going on.
18:32Yeah.
18:33And Vrabel said on Tuesday morning with Greg Hill that he was going to start
18:37talking to people on Tuesday.
18:39So, you know, we're, we're 48 hours later here.
18:43And then I sent the, uh, judge Judy Jif on, on Twitter last night of like
18:47the, her slapping the desk and pointing to her watch, like what, what, like
18:51what I'm waiting for information here.
18:53Uh, of course, I think this came out after we did our podcast earlier in
18:58the week, but Tommy Reese, right.
18:59This came out after Tommy Reese is staying in Cleveland as
19:02their offensive coordinator.
19:04Um, could that have messed up anything as far as Vrabel's process here?
19:11Yeah, it's very possible, but you know, I gotta, I gotta tell you, um, uh, you
19:17know, um, and it sounded like there, there's a, um, there's a guy out of
19:22Chicago used to be in the bears front office.
19:24I think his name's Greg Gabriel.
19:25He's on Twitter and he's pretty plugged in with the bears front office.
19:29And he tweeted at some point, uh, that basically he was hearing that Tommy
19:36Reese would be Vrabel's offensive coordinator or was the favorite.
19:41And he was happy about that.
19:43Um, that the bears avoided Mike Vrabel for that reason.
19:47I like, look, I think a lot of Tommy Reese, uh, I think he's, he's got a lot
19:52of potential, um, all the coaches that he's worked under, you know, whether
19:56it's Notre Dame or, or Nick Saban or Kevin Stefanski, they all talk about
20:00how smart he is and I'm sure he is.
20:03But I am not putting Drake Mays future in the hands of a 32, 33 year old, um,
20:11offensive coordinator, who's never really coached the quarterback position,
20:15certainly not at the NFL level.
20:17And so, but I do think that that's, I, because Greg said that, and he's so
20:23connected to the bears, Vrabel must've said that in this bears interview.
20:27So yes, I do think that probably has complicated things.
20:33I'm a Notre Dame fan, as many of you know, and I'll be fair to Tommy
20:37Reese because it was his first OC gig.
20:40I was not a big fan of his play calling at all at Notre Dame.
20:43I did not think he was necessarily great as a play caller.
20:47Um, again, you know, things have changed.
20:49He then went to Alabama.
20:50He worked with Jalen Milrow and then went to Cleve.
20:53You know, people evolve, people get better at what they do.
20:56So maybe he would have been better if, if, if he was here, uh, next season.
21:01I didn't love it based off of my experience watching his offenses.
21:04You know, I know he had Ian book and he had some limited weapons as well.
21:08So that also plays a role, but I didn't love what I saw.
21:12And I agree with you.
21:14He's he's 32.
21:16He just doesn't have a ton of experience and I know he played quarterback, but he
21:20hasn't worked with NFL quarterbacks at all.
21:23So yeah, I was not in love with the idea of Tommy Reese and that was
21:26before he decided to stay in Cleveland.
21:28He, he was not one of those guys that I said, oh, you, you gotta bring them in.
21:32You've got to make that happen.
21:34Of course, people want to know every time we talk about OC, what's
21:39the latest with Josh McDaniels?
21:43Um, you know, I, I'm not really sure.
21:46Um, it sounds to me, um, from people that I've talked to that, like he has a lot
21:53of strong interest around the league or has a lot of options, um, including
21:58possibly with Ben Johnson, who he has a relationship with, um, you know, I, I
22:03will say I was, I was, uh, me personally, I was pretty underwhelmed when Vrabel
22:11was asked, I think it was on EEI about like, you know, the list and, and they
22:17asked him like Josh McDaniels is like, is, is, is Josh McDaniels on the list?
22:21Like, yeah.
22:22Like, I don't know.
22:24I found that it's a little offensive.
22:26I mean, you know, he knows the guy, uh, he knows how successful he's been.
22:31Like, you know, say, say something a little bit more, Bill.
22:35Like I, I'd love to talk to Josh at some point.
22:38Uh, it's been a while since we talked, but you know, obviously
22:40his resume speaks for himself.
22:42It speaks for itself.
22:43So, uh, hopefully we get a chance to connect here in the next couple
22:46of days, just something like that.
22:48Um, but to just be like, yeah, I, I don't know if that would go over so well.
22:53Um, but you know, we'll have to see.
22:57I mean, again, it's, it's quite possible that Vrabel, like, I don't
23:00know, went home for a couple of days and was coming back to
23:02really hit the ground running.
23:03I do think this is going to be, this is going to be a pretty long process.
23:06And plus I do think the, the playoffs complicate things and, you know, we're
23:11hearing about, you know, some staff departures or, you know, I got to tell
23:16it, Nick, this, first of all, I think the Patriots were ahead of the game with
23:19what they did in hiring variable and how fast they did look at these other teams.
23:23Like they're taking forever and they're not going to be able to talk in person
23:28until next week with any of these people that are still live in, in the playoffs.
23:34You know, whether they're going to be able to do that in person and stuff
23:37and how complicated it's going to be.
23:39I mean, a lot of these guys, we might not hear about another hiring.
23:43Um, you know, unless you go outside of the NFL, like, uh, you know,
23:47Deion Sanders with the, um, the Cowboys or whatnot, um, you know,
23:52for another couple of weeks, I mean, say what you want about the Rooney rule.
23:56I said, crafts, we've talked about this for crafts, knew what they wanted.
24:00They didn't waste anybody's time.
24:02And, um, you know, and they got on with it and they're going to be like two or
24:06three weeks ahead of everything.
24:07So, you know, I just think all of this fallout from the hirings, like teams
24:12that have, uh, have fired head coaches, the coaches are still under contract.
24:17Some of them let them out and interview.
24:19Some of them don't like, it's pretty complicated.
24:22So this whole process has been dragged out by the national football league.
24:27The jets have interviewed.
24:28I think it is, this is a real number.
24:30I think they've interviewed 16 head coach and I think they've
24:34interviewed 15 GM candidates.
24:38That the 33rd team is making their money folks for the jets.
24:42They're interviewing everybody.
24:43Greg might get a phone call tonight.
24:45A couple of things.
24:46Rabel to me about how he answered the McDaniels thing.
24:50Part of me does wonder if he was just being coy, because if you go too far,
24:54if you go too over the top, does he kind of, you know, does he want to make it
24:59sound like McDaniels is the odds on favorite if he is the odds on favorite,
25:02which pretty much everybody nationally is saying it's going to likely be McDaniels.
25:07So if Rabel comes out and, and.
25:10And makes it sound like McDaniels is, is the guy, you know, does he not get to
25:15talk to some other people because they go, Oh, well, you know, here we go inside job.
25:19I don't know.
25:20So maybe he's being a little coy.
25:22The question I had for you though, about the coordinator stuff, Greg,
25:26the senior bowl is on February 1st.
25:29Would it not be, would it not be a good idea to have your staff or at least most
25:32of your staff in place by then?
25:34So you can start working, you know, on the draft and free agency, and you've
25:39got to have those meetings with your coordinators and stuff to, to put
25:42pieces together, correct?
25:44Um, yeah, I think we've sort of been, um, basically that you'll hear this a lot.
25:52I think it's completely overrated.
25:53Um, that talk like football players are football players.
25:58The, and I think we've heard, um, even when they put together, I think Mayo staff,
26:03I think we, we talked about this before and I think Elliot Wolf and other people
26:06were just like, you know, look, we can retrofit anything we want, you know,
26:11after the fact, and plus, you know, you have Ryan Cowden there, so, uh, he knows
26:16what Vrabel wants and is looking for.
26:18So yeah, it used to be a big, it used to be a bigger deal.
26:22It's not as much anymore, especially with the length of the hiring process.
26:26All right.
26:27Let's talk about game time, Greg.
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27:32Before we get to a DC talk, any other OC names that you want to throw out
27:36there or we're good to move on?
27:39No.
27:39Um, you know, I, I did a, I did a column today for BSJ sort of, you know, no
27:44inside, you know, knowledge or anything like that, just sort of going through.
27:50Uh, some of Rabel's history.
27:52I got to say that overall, um, and talking to people who, uh, were around
27:59Mike or worked with Mike in Tennessee.
28:02Um, I'm, I'm pretty scared about him staffing, especially on
28:08the offensive side of the ball.
28:09I don't think it was very good in Tennessee.
28:13I mean, you know, Lafleur, um, from what I understand was more
28:17of a John Robinson, um, hiring.
28:20I think Arthur Smith, they just sort of, I mean, he had been there for a while.
28:26Um, it's not like, it's not like Rabel had, you know, interviewed all these
28:32guys and, you know, went to Arthur Smith.
28:35I think, you know, he was basically the next, the next man up and he
28:40did that, that was really good for them.
28:42Um, I think it was, was it Tim Kelly who was next after Arthur Smith or yeah.
28:48I mean, like, that's the stuff that I'm worried about.
28:52Like him going, just going with guys.
28:54He knows like Tim Kelly is not a good offensive coordinator.
28:57Um, Todd Downing, not a good offensive coordinator, like, you know, but
29:03these guys are like Rabel guys.
29:04Like, is he going to be like, he, he needs to find, he needs to
29:08knock this thing out of the park.
29:10Especially, you know, it's one thing to hire these coordinators when you have,
29:13whether it's Marcus Mariota or Ryan Tannehill, you know, veterans who have,
29:19you know, you're not really going to change that much.
29:21We're talking about a 22, 23 year old franchise quarterback in Drake May.
29:26Like he needs to knock this out of the park and guys like Tim Kelly and Todd
29:32Downing, who don't know anything about the quarterback position are not going
29:36to be any, they're not going to be any good.
29:38I remember, um, Tim Kelly, I think he was with the, the Texans.
29:42There was another guy, Pat O'Hara, uh, that was there with Billy O'Brien.
29:46It was sort of like an underling.
29:48Um, Rabel doesn't hire the offensive line very well.
29:52Like that's been a disaster.
29:54Like he needs to go out and get like, you know, real talented people.
29:59And, and it's a, it's a shame, but Nick, I just realized this.
30:02Remember, remember last year or no, it was Belichick's Belichick's last year.
30:07And, you know, Billy O'Brien came and, you know, we were like, I was, is Bill
30:13going to let him hire his own staff and stuff like that?
30:15And they ended up going with Adrian Clement offensive line.
30:18And I was like, why don't they just let him go get Mike Devlin?
30:23Who's assistant offensive line coach for the jets who Billy O'Brien had in Houston.
30:28I said, go get that guy.
30:29And I just looked him up the other day.
30:30Cause I was like, oh, maybe, maybe O'Brien might be like, oh, very well.
30:34You should look at, you know, remember Mike Devlin, go look at him.
30:37He's been the chargers offensive line coach, like Jim Harbaugh hired him and
30:41did a pretty good job this year.
30:44It's just like, they can't, Rabel can't make those kinds of mistakes,
30:49not with Drake may right now.
30:51So, I mean, I'm hopeful that it's Josh McDaniels.
30:55I don't feel great about that right now, but it better not be one of these like
30:59retread guys, like, you know, like Tim Kelly or, you know, uh, Justin Outen,
31:08who's the Titans, uh, tight ends coach.
31:11You know, I don't want Nick Caley, no QB experience.
31:13I don't want Mike LaFleur, no QB experience, even though I think he got a
31:18bum rap in New York with the jets with Sala.
31:21Um, you know, I'm hopeful that they bring in like a guy like Clint Kubiak, um,
31:26Josh McCown, I like the idea of that, but he's never called plays.
31:30He's never been an offensive coordinator.
31:31I mean, he's been an NFL QB and he's coached QBs for two years, has
31:36a relationship with Drake May.
31:37That's good.
31:38But does he know anything about coordinating an offense?
31:40I don't know.
31:41I think Dave Ragone, the Rams QB coach could be interesting, but another guy
31:48who's never called plays or done the job by himself, uh, when he was offensive
31:52coordinator for Arthur Smith in Atlanta, Arthur Smith called the place.
31:56So, um, you know, I would say out of the guys out there, if it's Clint
32:02Kubiak or Josh McDaniels, I'm fairly happy about that.
32:07Anybody else I'm not going to be very happy.
32:11So a couple of things, lots of one pack.
32:14Number one, my fault, Tim Kelly was after Todd Downing.
32:17Todd Downing was 21, 22.
32:19Then Tim Kelly was 2023.
32:21Uh, I don't know how much the absolute disaster of the quarterback
32:25situation impacted those guys.
32:27I do want to be somewhat fair and say they had nothing to work with that
32:30quarterback, uh, you know, Tannehill as, as 21, 22 hit, he was really washed.
32:36They had Malik Willis.
32:37They had Will Levis that, I mean, they just had a bunch of
32:41Blaine Gabbert was thrown in there.
32:43So, you know, that does limit you.
32:46I'm not telling you those guys would be good.
32:47I just, I don't know what they would look like with a better quarterback.
32:49They might be better.
32:51Um, as far as Vrabel's role in all of this, I would hope he learned from
32:56Tennessee, uh, his time in Tennessee.
32:59I would hope that he learned from his time in Cleveland and he
33:01might approach this differently.
33:02I would hope that he evolves kind of his vision of, you know, how to handle
33:08an offensive staff, how to find that offensive staff, I guess we'll have to
33:11wait and see Clint Kubiak might be headed to Seattle.
33:16He has a second interview with the Seahawks.
33:18So it looks like the Seahawks are very likely, uh, well
33:23ahead of the game with Kubiak.
33:24So I think, I think Kubiak is probably going to end up in Seattle.
33:29So it might be a safe thing to just kind of take him off the plate,
33:33which does go back to Vrabel.
33:35You know?
33:36So if you, if you were looking at Tommy Reese and Reese is now gone, maybe
33:40you were looking at Kubiak, Seattle got the jump on you for Kubiak.
33:44So, you know, now you're looking at McDaniel's, the name that you brought
33:47up, you know, Ragone is interesting to me.
33:49Uh, if you're, if you're, I tweeted this days ago, if you're going to go
33:53with the first time play caller, I would go with McCown because he's
33:59coached under Kevin O'Connell, who I have a lot of respect for.
34:02I think he's a very good coach, very good offensive coach.
34:05He has a preexisting relationship with Drake may going back to high school.
34:09So I would imagine that would be a very, very easy transition for Drake
34:14may somebody who knows may somebody who has worked with may.
34:18So that relationship is very strong.
34:21And of course he's a former quarterback and he has at least worked with
34:24quarterbacks the last couple of years.
34:26So to me, McCown is the guy.
34:30If you're going for the first time play caller, I think
34:33McCown is, is very, very sexy.
34:36If you're going with the experienced guy, we've talked about it.
34:38I mean, McDaniel's has to be at or near the top of your list.
34:41All right, let's get to a defense.
34:43Hang on one second.
34:44Just, just to let people know, I just wanted to give one example of, or two
34:49examples of Mike Vrabel and I'm worried, like, I'm not going to be like this guy,
34:54Jared Stillman who Felder mass played, you know, all the time about his audio.
34:58Like, you know, I, let's just say I brought his name up to a couple of
35:02people in that area and they were just like, it's not like he's like, uh, he's
35:07more of a talk radio host than, you know, actually like a reporter, like doing
35:11homework, but, uh, I do worry about Vrabel.
35:16I have a worry about Vrabel's ego in that he thinks he can do a lot
35:23or make up for a lot of things.
35:24Like I can hire this guy and I'll bring them along.
35:27And like, I don't, I don't want Mike Vrabel like spread thin.
35:30I want him to hire a great staff.
35:32Hopefully he learned some lessons and he reflected on that.
35:36And that's what he does.
35:37Whereas like, I'm going to put the, put together the best staff because what I
35:41want is I want Mike Vrabel thinking up shit on the sidelines and different
35:46pressures and different, Hey, we need to do this, or we need to do this on special
35:50teams and, you know, and if somebody needs help, he can help them a little
35:54bit, give them a little extra edge, like during the game planning, like
35:58that's why I want Mike Vrabel.
36:00I don't want Mike Vrabel to hire all these guys who aren't ready for what
36:05they're doing and now he's spread too thin and we don't get that.
36:07Um, two examples of that, that scare me, uh, Craig Ackerman, who is a special
36:13teams coach for Vrabel, uh, for awhile, um, was a disaster to the point that
36:19he got fired, uh, halfway through.
36:21At one point he, he got the punter's leg broken.
36:24They had two punts blocked in a game.
36:27Vrabel finally had to fire him.
36:29Um, everybody knows I care about the offensive line.
36:32Keith Carter, offensive line coach, uh, was a disaster.
36:37And then they just promoted, once they finally fired him, they just
36:41promoted this guy, Jeff Hauteling, um, who, who basically had zero experience.
36:49This was his experience.
36:50Okay.
36:51Um, he was, he was Vrabel's last offensive line coach.
36:55He was a college coach at Wagner for four year, uh, for awhile, including head coach.
37:01Uh, he went to Hudson Valley.
37:03Uh, oh, but that was before Hudson Valley head coach, uh, 2010.
37:07Uh, he coached at Colgate in 2020 and then joined the Texans in 2021.
37:13And then he was the offensive line coach in 2023.
37:16Like that stuff can't go on.
37:18Like he's, he's gotta go get people at offensive coordinator, offensive line.
37:22I saw, I saw something on Twitter the other day where somebody, uh, somebody
37:26that I follow about coaching says a play caller is only as good as
37:30the offensive line coach.
37:32And I firmly believe that.
37:33I believe, I think we that's, we've seen that in practice
37:36the past couple of years, uh, up here.
37:38Hopefully people understand that now and realize why I
37:42railed against certain things.
37:44But Vrabel cannot, he cannot staff offensive coordinator,
37:48offensive line coach, like he did at the end of the, uh, in Tennessee,
37:51or else, um, I'm just afraid.
37:55I'm afraid for Drake May's future.
37:59I'm going to calm you down a little bit.
38:00I'm going to try to settle you down.
38:01Okay.
38:02Cause I feel a little wet blanket, but dart coming on right now.
38:04Last help me, baby.
38:05Uh, a couple of things I would say, number one, there was
38:10a lot of change in Tennessee.
38:12And I don't know how many coaches could go out and find, you know, three or four
38:19sets of offensive staff in a matter of six years, I mean, he was there with
38:23LaFleur LaFleur was gone after year one to be the green Bay head coach.
38:27So you have a major change.
38:29Then you go to Arthur Smith Smith fleas.
38:31So now you've got to find your third offensive coordinator in like five
38:35years, which I don't think is the most easy thing to do, and you're, you're
38:38turning over a lot of staff because Arthur Smith and LaFleur inevitably
38:42are taking some guys from your staff.
38:44So you're trying to kind of do that turnover thing constantly, which is
38:48pretty difficult to stay ahead of.
38:50I think it's made even more difficult.
38:52And I'm not telling you he's going to be great at filling the offensive staff.
38:55He might be the shits, but I, I would say that, you know, the other part,
38:59like we learned last year, it's not easy to find an offensive coordinator
39:04when you don't have a lot to sell.
39:06And unfortunately for Tennessee, the quarterback situation
39:10was a disaster.
39:10As I mentioned, they traded A.J.
39:13Brown doesn't make it easier for you to, you know, for you to find somebody, you
39:16had your two best offensive linemen leave the team, so I don't know how much
39:21Vrabel had to sell to a prospective offensive coordinator.
39:25Now, maybe he didn't even want to think about it.
39:27Like you said, maybe he just said, Oh, Tim, you know, Todd Downing's my guy.
39:29Cause he's been with me.
39:30We're just going to promote him.
39:31Tim Kelly's my, we're just going to, that could 100% be the thing.
39:36Or it could be that, you know, Vrabel looked at it and he couldn't get anybody
39:40that was exciting because they didn't have anything exciting to work with,
39:44which is how you landed on Alex Van Pelt last off season.
39:48I do think there are some extenuating circumstances, which could have impacted
39:52Vrabel's handling of the offensive staff.
39:55But with that said, again, we'll see, maybe not, maybe it had nothing to do
39:59with the extenuating circumstances.
40:01Maybe he was stubborn, maybe he was tunnel visioned, and maybe he just
40:03said, I'm sticking with my guys.
40:05And if that's the case, then it'll play out.
40:08I think it'll be McDaniel's if you're wondering.
40:10All right.
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41:57So Bob Euchre, our IP, my friend, I defensive coordinator, defensive
42:02thoughts, Greg, because we've spent a lot of time on offense and rightfully
42:06so because we're able to defensive guy, but kind of just your, your big picture
42:10thoughts about how this defense could look and maybe some names on that side.
42:16Um, yeah, I do think, you know, variable in, I haven't done a deep dive on this,
42:21but you know, variable from what I remember about studying the Titans when
42:24variable was there, especially when they played the Patriots and sometimes beat
42:27the freaking pants off the Patriots, including Tom Brady with, you know,
42:33Marcus Mariota, um, you know, they're, they're more of a four, three team.
42:37I wouldn't say they're overly multiple.
42:39Um, they don't blitz a lot.
42:42Uh, they are, they sort of split between man and zone.
42:45But again, I, I think, you know, it's the same thing as talking
42:48about Mike Rabel with, uh, with offense.
42:52Like, you know, you can look at what he did in Tennessee.
42:54Is that what he believes or is he just damn good at using the stuff that he has
42:59at his disposal, like Derrick Henry and, uh, and AJ Brown.
43:04Yeah.
43:04Um, I think that's the case with their defense too.
43:07I think when he gets here, I mean, you know, he, he's not going to make
43:10Christian Gonzalez play zone all the time.
43:12Um, because that's what he believes in.
43:14No, he's gonna, he's going to use them.
43:16He's going to use them on the chess board.
43:18So as far as a defensive coordinator, I mean, I have a feeling, I mean, I don't
43:23know, I mean, there's a bunch of different directions that they could go.
43:26I mean, there's obviously guys, Shane Bowen, I think would probably be
43:29the guy, but he's still, as of today, the Giants defensive coordinator.
43:33Um, you know, guys sort of, it would be a surprise if he reached out to them
43:38cause he's never worked with them, but I do their guys, I would talk to Lou
43:42Anna Rumo, who used to be the Bengals DC.
43:44I think he's awesome.
43:46Um, Matt Eber Flus, I think he's great as a defense coordinator.
43:50Remember Josh McDaniels sort of tabbed him as his defense
43:53coordinator with the Colts.
43:55Uh, and then Josh said no, but the Colts followed through and hired
43:59Eber Flus and he was so good.
44:00He got the bears job.
44:02Um, you know, Robert Sala, it looks like he's probably going to get another
44:06head coaching gig, uh, one of these at some point.
44:10Uh, but if not, I think he's tremendous as a defensive coordinator.
44:14Um, some of the guys that, um, besides Bowen that Vrabel knows Ryan Crow
44:20dolphins outside linebacker seems to be an up and comer.
44:24Um, you know, it'd be sort of akin to DeMarcus Covington.
44:29It'd be his first time, first sort of big role.
44:32But again, you'd have Vrabel there to help him.
44:34I think Vrabel does help as defensive coordinators a lot.
44:37Pat Graham, uh, Raiders defensive coordinator has been.
44:42Uh, interviewing a bit, I think for a couple of head coaching jobs.
44:45Um, but I think he's really good, very smart, very respected.
44:49And of course he comes from the same line.
44:51So him and Vrabel would speak the same language.
44:53Bobby King Eagles inside linebackers coach, uh, coach the same spot
44:58for variable for two seasons.
45:00His unit's done really well under Vic Fangio.
45:03Um, so his time could be coming, uh, and Terrell Williams, uh, lions
45:08defensive line run game coordinator, uh, talking to some people who know
45:12Vrabel, um, from Tennessee, they would be surprised about that.
45:18There's a bunch of guys that, uh, sort of like, even like Charles London on
45:21the offensive side, even though he's Seattle's QB coach, you know, like
45:25everybody says, like he's a running backs guy or, you know, and they think
45:29that Terrell Williams is really, uh, you know, a defensive line coach at heart.
45:35So, uh, we'll see.
45:37I mean, one guy I definitely do.
45:38Well, if the Rams let him out, uh, John streaker, the Rams game management
45:44assistant, he was Vrabel's right-hand man and sort of Ernie Adams.
45:48Um, and, and then he went over to the Rams this year.
45:51Does McVay let them go or not?
45:54McVay has been really good about that stuff about he, he doesn't care.
45:57He lets people, Hey, go, go do what you're going to do.
46:00I mean, I think talking to Vrabel people, um, they were like, if they
46:04can get his nickname stretch, if they can get stretch, if he can get them,
46:08expect them to be there with Vrabel to be sort of like his right-hand man,
46:12administrative assistant, uh, game management type guy.
46:17Let's go stretch.
46:19Give me stretch, baby.
46:20Uh, I'm trying to find the tweets.
46:23It was weeks ago and I've been trying to scroll through my, uh, Twitter here
46:28over the last three minutes and I can't find it trying to find the exact date,
46:32but I had tweeted my hopes as far as the coaching staff, when I had enough
46:40of Gerard Mayo, which had to be pretty much right after that chargers game
46:44where I was like, okay, like after the Arizona game, I said, I'm ready to move
46:48on after the chargers game, it was, if they don't move on, it's going to be a
46:51Travis sham mockery and they need to get their asses moving, but, uh, I can't
46:56find the exact date of the tweet.
46:57So I apologize, but I, I just want to bring this up because Greg just brought
47:01up, uh, Matt Iberfluss and it was, uh, it was at least a couple of weeks ago.
47:07I said, give me Mike Rabel head coach, Josh McDaniels, OC and Iberfluss DC.
47:12Yep.
47:13I think that would be a ridiculous coaching staff and, uh, maybe we'll
47:19get it, maybe we won't, I guess.
47:21We'll see.
47:22All right.
47:22Before we get to our divisional picks this week, check out BSJ 50 bucks for the
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47:53All right.
47:53Texans at chiefs, chiefs minus eight and a half.
47:57Uh, so I, uh, I like the chiefs to win, but I think it's going to be close.
48:03So give me the points with the Texans, but the chiefs will win.
48:07Yeah.
48:07Chiefs haven't scored a ton of points.
48:09So Houston's got those two edge rushers.
48:12Uh, I, I think, you know, tackle has been a question, Joe Tooney
48:15moving to the left side, left tackle has helped the chiefs big time, man.
48:19Tooney's done great.
48:20All things considered at that spot.
48:22But I do think Houston's pass rush can get to my homes a little bit.
48:26So, uh, I agree with you.
48:27I like the chiefs to win, but I do think that the Texans can keep
48:30it to within a touchdown or so.
48:32All right.
48:32Commanders at lions, lions minus eight and a half.
48:35So this is one of the tougher ones for me.
48:37Like, you know, I don't know.
48:40I do think I, I think, uh, if I do a weight, a little wagering this weekend,
48:44I might, uh, pick these teams with the buys to get off to slow starts,
48:49but eventually go into gear.
48:51Um, I don't know.
48:53I think, I think the law, I think the commanders are game.
48:55I think the lions win, but I do think it's going to be like a, uh, a touchdown
49:00game, a field goal to touchdown game.
49:03So again, I'll take the commanders and the points.
49:06I hate to always agree with you, but the commanders, I think,
49:10look, Ben Johnson's great.
49:11We all know that.
49:12Uh, I think the lions will score some points, but I also like Jaden
49:16Daniels, that commander's offense.
49:18The lion's defense is still banged up big time.
49:21So I think the commanders could put some points up on the board.
49:24What's fun to me about this game is, uh, all hell's going to break loose
49:28with the coaches because we know Dan Campbell, his, his approach fourth
49:33down, super aggressive.
49:34And then we saw last week, Dan Quinn going for on fourth down
49:37over and over and over again.
49:39We might not have a punt in this game.
49:41These guys might just be staring at each other across the field, pointing
49:44and going, I'm going for it.
49:45I'm going for hysteria.
49:48Uh, I'll go with the commanders getting the eight and a half.
49:51I think Detroit wins the game Rams at the Eagles Eagles minus six.
49:56I don't like that.
49:57I'm going to have to say this, um, because nothing, nothing
50:01makes me delight more, uh, outside of Yankees fans losing.
50:05It's Philly fans, um, losing, especially at home.
50:09But I think.
50:11I have a feeling that the Rams were going to be the week one team that
50:15everybody's just like, Ooh, look at this team.
50:17Like they looked really good, but then they, they fall flat in the second round.
50:21And I do think it's going to be tough with them.
50:23Everything that's going on in LA, they got to fly to Philly.
50:27Um, I think that the emotions are going to catch up with them.
50:31Uh, I like the Eagles and a blowout, unfortunately.
50:34And, and I, I did want to say, I think Vic Fangio, if, if Vic Fangio wasn't
50:40there, I wouldn't, I would, I would probably pick the Rams, but I think
50:44Fangio is the difference between this and other Eagles teams that have fallen.
50:51Give me Eagles minus six Ravens, minus a point and a half at the bills.
50:54This of course is the game of the weekend, Josh Allen, Lamar
50:57Jackson, all that good stuff.
50:58How do you feel about this game?
51:01I, I don't know how the bills stop the Ravens.
51:05Um, I really don't.
51:07I think, uh, I think the line is right.
51:09I think the Ravens should be favored.
51:11I think the world of Josh Allen.
51:13Uh, I just think the Ravens are a team.
51:15They're number one in DV away.
51:17They've gotten better.
51:18It seems like they've gotten better defending.
51:21I don't know how the bills are going to defend Lamar Jackson and
51:24Derek Henry, uh, running the ball.
51:27Um, so, um, give me the Ravens by probably like a touchdown.
51:32I'm going bills more bills.
51:35They got Milano back.
51:36They're going to do a better job against the run.
51:39The Ravens past defense.
51:41Not very good.
51:42I think Josh Allen could do some things against them.
51:46They got the, you know, I think, I think they do just enough tough though.
51:51Tough game, but I'll go with the bills.
51:52I need to disagree with something that Greg says, give me the bills.
51:55We'll take the point.
51:57All right, everybody.
51:57Have a great weekend.
51:58Maybe by early next week, we'll actually have an offensive coordinator
52:01interview in the books.
52:02Maybe I'm not promising anything.
52:04Uh, enjoy your weekend.
52:06We'll talk to you soon.
52:07Bye-bye.
52:25yeah.