The Jeremy Kyle Show (9 April 2018)
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00:00You're watching On Demand. Please check the closing time before trying to vote or enter any competition or other interactivity in this programme, as it may not count and you may still be charged.
00:10On today's show...
00:12Harry is here to demand answers from his nightmare mum, Becky. Now, Harry says that growing up, she always put men before him.
00:19The past month, I've called the police out four times.
00:22Why?
00:23And the partner she was with now threatened me, got in my face, said,
00:26I'm going to knock your teeth out.
00:31You care more about your boyfriend than you do about your son.
00:35She keeps going for one time.
00:36She's going to be in a relationship. She's 45 and she's entitled to it.
00:39If you don't like it, leave her damn, horrible, nasty, stinking, drunken flat and go and live on your own.
00:48I want your help to see my boy, because that thing in there, yeah, it ain't going to let me.
00:53Because of him, the police removed me from my house with my kids.
00:57Are you scared of him?
00:58She's lying.
00:59Yeah, my kids are scared of him.
01:00You're lying.
01:04Look at the boy. Look at him and look at me. He needs his dad.
01:07He's got a better dad than you.
01:10Why would you say that?
01:24CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
01:33Good morning and a big, big welcome to Showtime.
01:35Our first guest today, Harry, is here to demand answers from his nightmare mum, Becky.
01:39Now, Harry says that growing up, she, Becky, always put men before him,
01:43got aggressive towards him when she was drunk
01:45and would literally leave him alone for days on end without food.
01:48He says his relationship with his mum deteriorated further
01:51when she met current partner Colin, whom Harry describes as a scumbag.
01:55This young man is 16. He says,
01:57This is a massive day for me. I want a relationship with my mother.
01:59Harry is on The Jeremy Carl Show. That way.
02:02CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
02:09Nice to meet you.
02:10Nice to meet you.
02:11Different story for us.
02:13And I wanted to do it this way, because I think it's very important
02:16you get a chance to tell your side of this.
02:1816 years of age.
02:20Yeah, all I've known her to do is drink.
02:22She puts beer before me, men before me.
02:25I mean, she'll be in there now playing the sympathy card.
02:28When she gets... When she drinks, she gets aggressive.
02:31I have to hide in my room. I feel like I'm not wanted there.
02:34Let's just talk about you and your mum to start with,
02:37and we'll bring everybody else into the equation.
02:40Growing up, Harry, what sort of mother was she?
02:43She was there for me when she wasn't drinking.
02:45She's had a series, from what you've told my team, of bad relationships.
02:49You've seen stuff that maybe a young kid shouldn't see.
02:52What are we talking about?
02:54Her ex abused her, physically and mentally.
02:57He abused me physically and mentally.
02:59The past month, I've called the police out four times.
03:02Why?
03:03Because the first time, like, we moved last month,
03:06and the partner she was with now...
03:08Colin. Colin.
03:09..threatened me, got in my face, said,
03:11-"I'm going to knock your teeth out." Is that your mum there?
03:13Yeah, that's my mum there. And that's Colin?
03:15Yeah.
03:16He threatened to what?
03:17Knock my teeth out. If I throw a punch, it'll be the last punch I ever throw.
03:20You say that I do everything around the house.
03:22You do everything she asks me to and more.
03:24She doesn't buy me Christmas presents,
03:26she doesn't leave food in the house.
03:28Tracey has to buy it. I'm still waiting for my Christmas present.
03:31Who is Tracey? Tracey is the mother of your girlfriend.
03:33Yes.
03:34Your girlfriend is also 16. Cheryl, she's living with you.
03:37Tracey, her mum, lives downstairs.
03:39What do you think when people talk about your mum?
03:41Are you proud of her? Are you embarrassed by her?
03:43Embarrassed by her.
03:44She needs to learn that I'm not going to keep putting up with it.
03:47I'm not going to keep putting up with her being with abusive partners,
03:50her drinking excessively every day.
03:59You ran the show, right?
04:00Yeah, I ran the show.
04:01He ran the show at 16 years of age.
04:02What did you want to achieve from today?
04:04A relationship back with my mother, how she was before, when she was single.
04:07You're a fine young man. We're going to bring her out.
04:09Listen, we'll be honest, this will be a journey, all right?
04:12I appreciate you being here.
04:13Your mum, Becky, is 45. She's on the Jeremy Carl show, That Way.
04:28How does that sound?
04:29It sounds disgusting.
04:31What, your behaviour does, yeah?
04:32No. No.
04:34The noise that's coming from my son.
04:37Are you an alcoholic?
04:39No.
04:40Why are you shaking, then?
04:41I'm shaking because I'm really annoyed.
04:43Why?
04:44Because of what he's just said about me.
04:46What's not true?
04:47Well, most of it's not true.
04:48You've got proof?
04:49I've got proof.
04:50Cheryl's seen it, Tracy's seen it.
04:52You had to walk out from the police
04:53because I was saying how it made me feel when you were drinking.
04:55You walked out, you got in my face, you went,
04:57I have to go before I do something I regret.
04:59I stood you in the kitchen to calm down.
05:01And you walked out the house for a fag because you wanted some fresh air.
05:03To calm down.
05:04How does it make you feel,
05:06knowing that your son has grown up,
05:09witnessing you being beaten by a man?
05:12Is that not going to colour his opinion of his mother?
05:16Do you not think that a lot of this
05:18is him trying to be protective, darling,
05:20because of what he's seen?
05:22Yes, absolutely.
05:24So why, in the name of God,
05:26do you welcome another whatever
05:28who drinks and smokes and threatens your son?
05:31Because from where I'm sat, and I could be wrong,
05:33any person who threatened any of my kids
05:36wouldn't be in me damn house, love.
05:39No, no, no, why?
05:41Don't shake your head, tell me.
05:43Why would you allow a man in your house
05:45who threatens your kid?
05:47He was up in that...
05:49No, no, no, no, no, forget it.
05:51I'm sure it's not perfect, I'll deal with that later.
05:53Why would you allow any man in your house
05:56to have a go physically at your kid?
05:58Because you care more about your boyfriend
06:01than you do about your son.
06:03Tell me why.
06:05Tell me.
06:08Tell me why you allow that,
06:10cos it's not the first time, is it?
06:12No.
06:13Two men have got in his face,
06:15men that you share a bed with.
06:17Now, I suspect that most mothers watching this,
06:19the minute that happens,
06:21would have nothing whatsoever to do with that person again.
06:24I didn't, I split up with Colin.
06:26You're back with him now, love, aren't you?
06:27Yes, I am, but he doesn't...
06:28Two men that's happened to, answer me.
06:30Why?
06:32Because I love him, I care about him,
06:34he's not a bad influence on Harry.
06:36You love Harry?
06:37You know I do.
06:38Then why'd you pick your boyfriend over your son?
06:40If I didn't care about you, I wouldn't be here now.
06:43You're a good mother?
06:44Yes.
06:45How?
06:46I love my children, I put my children first.
06:49You don't put me first.
06:50I do put you first, Harry.
06:51I bent over backwards with you.
06:53When you were having problems with school,
06:55I bent over backwards with you to get you help,
06:58to get you support.
07:00And where are you now, are you drinking with him?
07:02I'm going to turn this round, young man,
07:04I'm going to do this story as honestly as I can.
07:07I have it on absolute authority, Harry,
07:10that she has found you three schools in the last 18 months
07:14and you have not bothered to go.
07:17Why are you not at school, Harry?
07:18She found me one school.
07:19What?
07:20She found me one school.
07:21Why are you not at school, Harry?
07:22For depression and anxiety.
07:24Why are you not helping your son if he's got depression and anxiety?
07:26I am helping my son, I've been helping him,
07:28I've been trying to get him counselling,
07:30I've put him under the doctors.
07:32What?
07:33I'm trying to get a resolve here.
07:34You're both in the wrong.
07:35Here's another thing, just out there, before we meet them.
07:37Your girlfriend's 16.
07:39Her mother is sat backstage nodding at everything you do.
07:42I'm going to give you something, Tracy, from before you come out.
07:44I'm not having a go, but I'm making a point.
07:46Your 16-year-old daughter, Tracy,
07:49is living in a house, a flat above with him,
07:52a flat that you know has dysfunctional written all over it
07:56where there's shouting and screaming and the police are being asked, yeah?
07:59Why the hell, Tracy, do you allow your 16-year-old to live in that house?
08:03Why don't you take him downstairs and live somewhere else?
08:06But... But...
08:09Everybody, everybody is in the wrong in this story, OK?
08:13I want to do this story because I don't like the fact
08:16that a 16-year-old is not at school,
08:18is at loggerheads with his mother.
08:20I think you've made mistakes, I think you've made mistakes,
08:22I think everybody's made mistakes,
08:24but this is not good because we're not getting anywhere as it is, are we?
08:28After the break, the girlfriend,
08:30we've also got Colin and the girlfriend's mother downstairs.
08:33Right back, don't go anywhere.
08:35You've got no respect for the love that I'm trying to give you
08:38or that Cheryl's mum is trying to give you.
08:40After Tom, you ain't even got any respect for anybody.
08:43I know exactly that you've had a hard time,
08:45but you're also milking every damn moment.
08:47I'd be kicking you right up the backside whether you like it or not.
08:49I'll tell you what your problem is, and it's not your fault, and she's getting it.
08:52Your problem is you ain't got a damn male influence in your life.
08:55That's your absolute problem.
08:59CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
09:06Before the break, son Harry, mum Becky.
09:09I mean, what I said before, I mean, you're 16 years of age, right?
09:12There are people who have joined the army and are fighting world wars at 16.
09:16You won't like what I'm going to say, young man,
09:18but why don't you get off your backside, leave your mother's house,
09:21get your own place with your girl, get a job and grow up?
09:24There's two sides to this argument.
09:27I went to the council, I got turned away because I'm not old enough.
09:30There's got to be two sides.
09:32Tracey is your girlfriend's mother, who lives downstairs
09:36but allows a 16-year-old to live in a dysfunctional place with this man
09:40despite the fact the police called.
09:42I don't live with him.
09:43Tracey's on The Jeremy Carl Show. That way.
09:45CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
09:52Can you explain what I asked you?
09:54I'm only being straight with you.
09:56You freely say to my team,
09:59um, Harry, um, you know, has issues with his mother.
10:04I live below.
10:05The police have been called four times in a month.
10:08It's a nightmare. My daughter lives with them.
10:10Why the hell would any good mother allow her 16-year-old
10:13to live upstairs in a nightmare?
10:15If you have to go, you say,
10:17I have to give them food the whole time.
10:19Why don't you have him live with you, love?
10:21I can't have him live with me. Why?
10:23Cos me and Millsburn will not allow the two of them to live together.
10:26But you're all right for him to be...
10:28You're all right for your young daughter
10:30to be 15 feet upstairs with him in bed, yeah?
10:32Downstairs, actually.
10:33But Cheryl stays with Harry to be his rock.
10:37Have you asked whether your kids are having safe sex?
10:40Cos the next thing is, they'll have a kid.
10:42I know.
10:43You just said she wasn't having sex, she was his rock.
10:45I didn't say she weren't having sex.
10:47But you're happy for her to have sex 15 feet downstairs
10:51but not in your house?
10:53On to that.
10:54Oh, they do stay in my house.
10:58Are you having safe sex?
11:00Yes, definitely, 100%.
11:04I take her every month to have the depo.
11:06Where's Cheryl? Where is she?
11:08How does she know you're having safe sex?
11:10Cos she takes me to the doctors every month.
11:12Why do you allow them to live with her?
11:14I can't stop it, I've tried.
11:16I've tried and I've tried. Me and my dad's tried.
11:19She wanted to be with him.
11:20What do you make of this, young man?
11:22I mean, they've run away. I've tried to get around before.
11:24What did you just do?
11:25He has run away.
11:26What do you make of Harry?
11:28Harry's a nice guy.
11:30Tell me about when the police were called, sweetheart.
11:32Well, I was at home and I got a phone call from Harry
11:35to say Becky's attacking my daughter.
11:38She got in Cheryl's face and she was at her...
11:40I did get in Cheryl's face.
11:42I was having an argument.
11:43We had a chat.
11:44I had to get in the middle of it because of how close...
11:46We went into the house, we had a chat.
11:48I've accepted your abusive partners.
11:50I'm trying to accept yours.
11:52I've frustrated to the hilt with you over school.
11:55You told the police to get me out.
11:57With depression, with making choice after choice after choice
12:01that are costing you your future.
12:03When do you think you're going to pick up this education again?
12:06When do you think you're going to get a job?
12:08You want to look after your girlfriend
12:09and you want to have your own house and your own life,
12:11yet you've got no respect for the life that I'm trying to give you
12:14or that Cheryl's mum's trying to give you.
12:16Half the time, you haven't even got any respect for anybody.
12:19You weren't trying to give me a life.
12:21You're going away drinking.
12:22Tracy is giving me...
12:24Tracy texted me the other day about a job opportunity.
12:27I asked her...
12:28What about your uncle that offered you a job opportunity
12:30to stay at school?
12:31I've asked him again.
12:32No, you're doing it again.
12:33He said, and I quote...
12:34I asked him the other day and he went...
12:36He'll tell you when he's got work.
12:38Can I just say, he's not perfect at all.
12:40You are, right?
12:41If you were mine, you'd be at damn school,
12:43you wouldn't be living with your bird
12:45and you wouldn't disrespect your mother.
12:47If I was... I'm telling you absolutely.
12:49No, no, no, no, no.
12:51Cos I know exactly that you've had a hard time
12:53but you're also milk in every damn moment.
12:55I'd be kicking you right up the backside whether you like it or not.
12:58I'll tell you what your problem is and it's not your fault,
13:00and she's getting it.
13:01Your problem is you ain't got a damn male influence in your life.
13:04That's your absolute problem.
13:05She keeps going from one to another.
13:07She keeps going from one to another.
13:08She's got to be in relationships.
13:09She's 45 and she's entitled to it.
13:11If you don't like it, leave her, damn, horrible, nasty,
13:13stinking, drunken flat and go and live on your own somewhere.
13:17CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
13:22But look at me.
13:23I get that and I get that you've taken all of that
13:26but let's just take you separately.
13:28You shouldn't be told this by a 16-year-old but he is right.
13:32You're not very good at picking men, are you?
13:34No.
13:35And this latest one, you've had altercations,
13:37turns up in the middle of the night with a bag full of beer,
13:40you have altercations, you have arguments.
13:42If you're 16, this is my point,
13:44if you're 16 and you see your mother,
13:46however much you purport to hate her,
13:48but you see your mother being physically attacked,
13:50being dragged down,
13:52when you see the next idiot walk through the door with a bag of beer,
13:56aren't you going to feel the same?
13:58Nothing... Aren't you?
13:59So why don't you aim higher?
14:01Why aren't you happy to not be with some lowlife who abuses you?
14:04I've been dragged so far down the line by you.
14:07No, by your choices as well.
14:09No!
14:10Yes!
14:11No!
14:12What, he hasn't dragged you down?
14:14The bloke that beat you up hasn't dragged you down?
14:16He did.
14:17Right, that's not Harry's fault, mate!
14:19I know it's not.
14:20You're lashing out at each other
14:21and I think you should be lashing out at other people.
14:24I think you surround yourself with negative men
14:26because I don't know what, you can't be on your own
14:28or you're trying to prove the world wrong?
14:30He's a really, really nice person.
14:32Does Colin work? Is he a good influence?
14:34He's disabled.
14:35But able to drink?
14:37Disabled but able to drink, yeah?
14:39Spinal cord damage.
14:40Spinal cord damage but he's able to rise a glass, yeah?
14:43From work, he'd worked all his life.
14:45And now he just drinks?
14:47No, cos he dies when he doesn't drink.
14:49Cos he can't afford it.
14:51The point is...
14:52I'm still waiting for a Christmas and birthday present.
14:54If you didn't buy beer, I would have it.
14:56The reason we didn't have any money...
14:58No, the reason we didn't have any money
15:00was because we were trying to move out and I am in debt.
15:03Why are you in debt?
15:04You're in debt with the shop because you owe them money for beer.
15:07Is that true?
15:08Yeah.
15:09She was in about £200 of debt when she got £80.
15:11You've got an alcohol problem.
15:13Whether you like to admit that in front of... Haven't you?
15:15I'm not alcoholic, though.
15:17Oh, no, no. Dare I ever be alcoholic?
15:19LAUGHTER
15:21But you... I'm not saying you depend on...
15:24What I'm saying is you drink regularly.
15:26I think you drink as a shield.
15:29But I honestly believe that the two of you could sort this
15:33if you stopped blaming each other for your problems
15:36and looked in a mirror and worked out the following.
15:39You should be at school, not living with your girlfriend
15:42and respecting the situation a little bit more
15:45whilst I acknowledge your frustrations.
15:47I kick you right up the backside.
15:49You need to ditch the men that drag you down,
15:52do something about drinking on a daily basis,
15:54get your life back in order,
15:56because I think if you started to respect yourself,
15:58your kid might respect you in the end.
16:00That's what I think.
16:02Can I agree? Can I agree?
16:05I think I need some self-respect.
16:08I think I've got emotional problems,
16:10things that have happened to me in my past,
16:12and I think that a lot of my decisions have impacted on myself.
16:15Do you not think that because of the way you feel about yourself
16:18you drink to block them out rather than face them?
16:20Yeah, cos I can't cope with them.
16:21But surrounding yourself by things like this that's about to come out
16:23is not going to make you a better mother or a better woman, is it?
16:25He's a good person. No, he's not.
16:27He's a good person.
16:28Colin's on a Jeremy Carr show that way.
16:34APPLAUSE
16:40Are you an alcoholic? No.
16:43Do you drink every day? No.
16:45You say, I don't like Harry. I do like Harry.
16:47You told my team I don't like him,
16:49he's an attention-seeking, immature little git.
16:51AUDIENCE GROANS
16:53Did you or did you not say that? Yeah.
16:55Sorry? Yes.
16:56Can I just try differently? Yeah.
16:58Do you think...
17:00You've admitted you've got problems, anxiety and issues from the past.
17:04There's no doubt that those have never been visited
17:06and I suspect that's not your fault.
17:08But my problem is that it's about your priorities.
17:12Your priorities are wrong.
17:14OK? Sorry.
17:15Your priorities should not be
17:17having to scrounge food from your girlfriend's mother down below.
17:21You are incredibly intelligent for 16, but you're wasted.
17:24You should be at school and you should be building a career.
17:27You should do... Just a moment.
17:29We live in a society where, at 16 nowadays,
17:32you want to grow up and take on the world
17:34before you've actually got what you need to get.
17:36You.
17:38I know it's not easy and I completely understand
17:41that you feel that you're sitting here
17:43and that everybody's saying, bad mum. I'm not.
17:45I've actually supported you on about five occasions,
17:48but you won't give me anything back.
17:50You are not alcohol-dependent, but you choose alcohol
17:52and your priorities could be different, couldn't they?
17:55Yes.
17:56You have allowed, not allowed, but your son has been witness
18:01to a few relationships that I guess, in hindsight,
18:05you probably wouldn't have been in.
18:08What's interesting about you is you can't be on your own, can you?
18:11I can.
18:12You can't.
18:13Be quiet.
18:14Have you ever disciplined him?
18:16No.
18:17Well, he wouldn't answer me back if he was my son.
18:20Yeah, but the thing is...
18:21He wouldn't have his bird at 16 in his bedroom.
18:24Fair enough.
18:25I'm not going to have a drunk round with a bottle of beer
18:27at four o'clock in the morning.
18:28I'm asking you if your priorities are different
18:31or could be different.
18:33They could be different.
18:34You've also got to understand one thing.
18:37Be 16 or not, and you can throw all this stuff at me,
18:40your mother has a right to a life.
18:43Where I feel sympathy for your mother is,
18:45A, when she hasn't got the help she quite patently needs,
18:48B, and two, I think she's getting all your bile
18:53and probably go to other family people
18:55because she's the one that's around.
18:58I think you're justified in some of your criticisms,
19:01but what you both need to do if you're going to make this work
19:04is both admit that you are at times both right and wrong
19:09and find common ground.
19:10Your mum loves the bones of you.
19:12She needs to show it more because...
19:14Stop answering me back. I haven't finished.
19:16I want to bang your damn heads together
19:18and get you to meet in the middle.
19:20Trace, it's been really nice meeting you.
19:22I'm going to get Graeme on the Jeremy Cowie show.
19:25APPLAUSE
19:34There are so many issues to address.
19:36So many issues.
19:38Particularly when I was listening backstage.
19:40But I think we need to get back to basics here, we really do.
19:43And what should happen at the end of this programme
19:46is that you should take your son home, OK?
19:49And you should live at your home address with your son.
19:52Cheryl should take her daughter home.
19:55And they should live at their home address alone.
19:58Should.
19:59And your boyfriend, he should live at his home address.
20:03OK?
20:04So then we've got rid of all of these dynamics
20:07that are going on right now
20:08because all of these personalities
20:10are just clashing all over the place.
20:12Do you agree to that? I agree to it.
20:14You would live at home with your mum alone.
20:18Yeah, I agree to that.
20:19And your girlfriend will live at home with her mother.
20:2215 feet below.
20:23And Colin will live at his home address.
20:25It's massively important.
20:27If we're to address any problems here,
20:29we must sort out that family dynamic that's going on right now
20:32because it's just not working, is it?
20:35No.
20:36OK?
20:37And the longer you maintain that family dynamic
20:39of having Colin in your home, it's not going to work.
20:42So we need a chance here,
20:46especially because he needs to be educated.
20:49He needs a future, OK?
20:51Don't dismiss this.
20:52You are highly privileged to be offered the opportunity of education.
20:57Highly privileged.
20:59I would take it.
21:00Grab it.
21:01I will, but...
21:02Grab it with both hands.
21:03Don't say no, but listen to him.
21:05Stop making excuses about why you cannot go to school
21:08because a lot of what you're saying is excuses, OK?
21:11Grab it with both hands, OK?
21:13This is the platform that you need for the rest of your life.
21:16To break away from this and become, as he's saying...
21:20See, I'm sure you've had issues, I'm sure you've both got issues,
21:24alcohol, depression, bullying, whatever,
21:26but he's absolutely right.
21:28For you to graduate, to get a job,
21:30to maybe be with this lady one day and all of that,
21:33I don't want you to have a kid mate at 16
21:36and be on a show like this on the dole, struggling.
21:39I want this lady, if she chooses to be with Colin,
21:42that's her damn business, but I want her to be less willing
21:45to take a drink to blot out what's happened
21:48because I think her choices
21:49and I think how she looks at things will be different.
21:52I actually think you're both victims,
21:54I actually think you're both right and I think you're both wrong.
21:57I probably surprised a few people by saying
21:59you need a size 10 up your backside,
22:01but you, I want you to go.
22:03It might be that he's all right, but I can see it in your eyes.
22:06You just accept anything because actually you're used to that
22:09and it's not good enough for you as not being educated
22:12is not good enough for you.
22:14And what we try and do on this show is people go,
22:17oh, it becomes really... Yes, it does.
22:19But then, then, why did you come here today?
22:22And we talked about this this morning.
22:24Because essentially for a 16-year-old to phone the Jeremy Carle Show
22:27and say, you want a relationship with your mum
22:29and I know that you want a relationship with your son.
22:32No disrespect to Cheryl or Tracy or whoever Colin is, right,
22:35is that basically they all get involved.
22:38This is about you two and this is what he's talking about.
22:41But it's time that you faced up to your own demons.
22:44It's time that you, I think,
22:46acknowledge the mistakes that you've made towards each other
22:49and we try and put it right.
22:50One of the things, she's never had the help she needs.
22:53This is what we're talking about,
22:55but we have to get some stability here, OK?
22:58We have to get good foundations.
23:00And what I just said there is we need that foundation
23:03if we're to move forward in a positive way.
23:05And, yes, there are issues that you need to deal with from your past.
23:08And you, young man, you need a lot of motivation, OK?
23:11You genuinely do.
23:12But we can't do that, OK,
23:15if there's all of these influences coming into this house.
23:18Do you understand that?
23:19What do you want to say to your mum?
23:21I've got a proposition. If you want a drink, go to Tipton.
23:24Why don't you just say I love you? Drop the attitude, mate.
23:27I don't when she's like this. I don't know who she is.
23:29When was the last time you told your mother that you loved her?
23:32Ages ago.
23:33Ages ago, because...
23:34Do I have to tell you what to do with your mother?
23:36No, I want to hug him, I want to reach out to him.
23:39Every time I... Oh.
23:40I don't want to, because I don't know who she is when she's like this.
23:43APPLAUSE
23:47You've got to do it. You've got to do it.
23:51I buy you completely,
23:53but I also buy the fact that this woman...
23:56It's very easy. Maybe we've changed.
23:58You're asking your mum to change, aren't you? OK?
24:01What's your mum asking of you?
24:03The same. The same?
24:05Absolutely, OK? So this is mutually beneficial.
24:08You both, both of you, need to make changes
24:11in order for this relationship to move forward.
24:14But don't expect all the change to come from your mum, OK?
24:18You need to make some changes too.
24:20Give your mother a hug.
24:22APPLAUSE
24:27I want to finish by saying one thing,
24:30and I'll pick up on what Graham said.
24:33Being careful.
24:35There's a lot of people that one meets in one's life
24:38who don't have perhaps the opportunity or the potential.
24:41You've got it all, kiddo.
24:43At 16, you've got a brain, OK,
24:46and you have the chance to do something.
24:49Don't tread all over this lady.
24:51Learn to respect her, learn to respect you.
24:54Learn to respect her, learn to respect him,
24:56and I think your relationship and your life will be very different.
24:59Of course if you choose to be with Colin,
25:01of course if you choose to drink, but I look at sad eyes,
25:04and I know that you blot out everything that's gone on.
25:07And when he criticises you, you drink more
25:09because actually it's easier than facing it.
25:11And I know that you are desperate for a relationship with your mum,
25:14and the reason that you're with your girlfriend
25:16and maybe the girlfriend's mother is because you're craving that.
25:19We can do this together. Can we work with you? Is that OK?
25:22Can I just say one thing? Of course.
25:24If you want a drink, go to Tipton, I don't want to be around it.
25:27If you don't want a drink, then come home.
25:29That's what we're going to do.
25:31We're going to make changes in this relationship.
25:33And I will go back to that point.
25:35You also need to make changes.
25:37If she goes to Tipton to drink, you go to damn school.
25:40That's the deal. Can we work on this?
25:42You three go that way. Graham, thank you very much indeed.
25:46CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
25:49We'll see. We'll work. We'll let you know. Good luck.
25:52We'll keep you updated.
25:53I'm back with more from the Jeremy Carr Show after this break.
25:56This is why I'm here, yeah, to prove to you and everybody else
25:59how much of a good dad I can be.
26:01And don't take drugs, because good dads don't take, OK?
26:04I don't take drugs, yeah. I don't take drugs.
26:16..recordings or texts that you want to confront someone with.
26:19If you're 18 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show,
26:22email talk.itv.com along with your number.
26:24Text TALK plus your name to 63334.
26:27Text costs 25p plus one standard rate message.
26:30Or you can call my team today. It's 09011.
26:32It's 123456.
26:34Calls cost 25p plus network access charge.
26:39CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
26:46Now, you might remember my next guest.
26:48Who wouldn't, from a previous encounter? Take a look at this.
26:53You got pregnant quite quickly, didn't you? Yeah.
26:55Tell them what he insisted that you do.
26:57He made me get an abortion with the first one.
27:01Don't be stupid, yeah?
27:03At the end of the day...
27:05Who are you telling to shut up, you big-mouthed...
27:09Are you staring at? What?
27:11Who's staring at what? Him?
27:13Muppet, I'll take your girl from you.
27:17I'm here for a DNA test, yeah?
27:19So why don't you think the kid is yours if you're seeing it every day?
27:22Cos I'm seeing it every day. That's what she said.
27:24I've got 80% of my...
27:27Says, I love that boy, that boy's mine.
27:29So where's the... Friends and family and other people, yeah?
27:32Why are you so angry? You need to calm down.
27:35What did you say?
27:37I said, come and run after me cos that's what you're paid to do.
27:41Get your little legs running.
27:43Run as fast as you can.
27:45You can't catch me, I'm a gingerbread man.
27:50I feel very sorry for this child cos Mark is his biological father.
27:56Now, following on from that appearance,
27:58Mark became known as the angriest guest in the show's history.
28:01However, what was obvious during that recording
28:03was actually his passion towards his son Kai.
28:05He claims now that since that show,
28:07Amanda has falsely accused him of kidnapping his son,
28:09stopped all acts as he says,
28:11she got me wrong, I made a note to set the record straight
28:13and to tell her, stop playing God with my son's life.
28:16I messed up last time, I want to get it right.
28:19Mark's back on the Jeremy Carr Show that way.
28:28What happened last time, then?
28:30Just so subject to my son.
28:33How old is Kai? He's one year old.
28:36When was the last time you saw him?
28:39Five minutes on his birthday, 2nd of January or 1st of January.
28:43You've got his birthday wrong.
28:45Shut up, you muppet.
28:47You're a muppet.
28:48Get gone.
28:50No, why don't you, you...freak, get yourself...
28:55Come on, love, have you looked in the mirror?
28:57Yeah, I've looked in my...
28:59Go for your little...
29:01Can you lose that?
29:03Can you lose the picture, please?
29:04It's making me feel sick.
29:06The problem you've got is, look at me,
29:08if you want to be straight with me, I'll be straight with you.
29:11The minute you start, even if she does what she just did,
29:14which is pretty uncharacteristic,
29:16cos you didn't say Jack last time, right?
29:18The minute you do it,
29:20you reinforce what everybody else is thinking,
29:22which is that you disrespect...
29:24Hear me out, women.
29:26Why didn't you just let her say that and go,
29:28I'm sat here and I'm the bigger person
29:31because I care more about my son than going,
29:34because the detractors will go, look at me,
29:36don't take the mickey, I'm trying to help you.
29:39I'm trying to help you.
29:41If you rise above that, as my old girl used to say,
29:43if you rise above that and let that go,
29:45and she don't get a rise,
29:47people, the authorities, your son will go,
29:50do you know what? Yeah, there's the passion.
29:52Why do you want to see him?
29:54Why? Cos he's my son, Jeremy, and I miss him to bits.
29:57She phoned me up, yeah,
29:59just to rub it in my face that he's walking.
30:01She phoned me up, oh, and by the way,
30:03he took his first steps, he's standing up,
30:05he's walking on the sofa.
30:07When did you...? You were seeing him, weren't you?
30:09Yeah, I was seeing him regular, Jeremy.
30:11What changed? After the second show.
30:13You were accused of kidnapping him.
30:15Well, I wouldn't say kidnapping him.
30:17I would say, basically, no...
30:20Are you involved? Jeremy, yeah.
30:22We were arguing at the end of the day.
30:24I don't want my son seeing what's going on.
30:27So I tried to defuse that situation
30:30by taking my son out of that equation
30:33and by walking out of the house with him.
30:36The police were called, what happened?
30:38Yeah, the police were called, basically asked me to bring him back.
30:41Did you take him back? Yeah, I took him back.
30:43That was the last time you saw him? Yeah.
30:45You say that you're so prepared to commit to this boy
30:48that you'll take me on by saying,
30:50I'll see him in a contact centre,
30:52I will prove that seeing him is right.
30:54Yeah, I'll prove to you, your crew, my family, everybody,
30:58I'll prove to them. Why?
31:01Why? Because I want to be a grown-up
31:03and take responsibility for my actions.
31:05APPLAUSE
31:12Can you close the door or something? This is all I'm here for.
31:15You don't need that. That's BS. That's BS.
31:17You're still on drugs. What do you mean by drugs?
31:20No, what drugs? What kind of drugs?
31:22You're smoking weed, yeah? That's not cannabis.
31:24What are these messages?
31:26That's another sesh done, time to chill.
31:28Chilling with my boy, getting started watching Shelley.
31:30Got messy with the cuz last night, big.
31:34Come on, 6th of January, man. What's wrong with you?
31:376th of January, 9th of February.
31:39When it was his birthday, when you were crying cos you didn't see him
31:42and you're on drugs. I'm trying to help you.
31:44We're having this conversation, you want to lose it with me,
31:46you lose it with me, but I'm going to help you, right?
31:48Don't take those drugs.
31:50Put the money in a bank and give to him when she starts behaving better.
31:53Jeremy, Jeremy, hold on, hold on, hold on.
31:57Hold on a minute, hold on a minute.
31:59I promise you I'll help you today, go on.
32:01Jeremy, this is why I'm here, yeah, to prove to you and everybody else
32:05how much of a good dad I can be and I want to be.
32:07Then don't take drugs cos good dads don't take cocaine.
32:09I don't take drugs, yeah, I don't take drugs.
32:11What are the drugs?
32:13Drugs, what?
32:15I smoke weed, weed is a drug.
32:17There's been more, you admitted it.
32:19Since you stopped seeing your son, I'm doing this for a reason,
32:22since you stopped seeing your son, have you taken any other hard drugs?
32:25No.
32:26Right. Honestly? Honestly.
32:28The next time you think you should or you are about to...
32:31I think of my son and I don't. Why would I?
32:33Why would I hang around with other people that do that sort of stuff
32:36when I want to be a dad? What can you offer your son?
32:38Jeremy, what can I offer him? All right.
32:40What does messy with your friends mean?
32:42I can offer him stability, I can offer him love.
32:44You're getting messy with your friends, what does that mean?
32:46Messy, it means chilling, having a laugh and a joke with your mates.
32:50Right.
32:52There's another sesh done, time to chill.
32:55Got messy with the cos last night, big night.
33:00I got it, Jim.
33:02What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to help you
33:04and maintain what I believe is right.
33:06I believe, this is me speaking, my show,
33:08I want to look in your eyes and I want to know whether you are telling me the truth.
33:11Jeremy, listen to me. I'm proving by not taking drugs.
33:14Go on, then, go on.
33:16At the end of the day, why do you think I've come here?
33:18Yeah, I might have been...
33:20..on the first and second show, yeah?
33:23That's because, obviously, yeah, you hit a nerve, yeah?
33:27But today, I want to sit here, yeah?
33:29I want your help to see my boy, cos that thing in there, yeah,
33:33ain't going to let me. Sorry, sorry.
33:35His mother. Well, his mum...
33:37What about money? Have you ever bought the kid anything?
33:39She goes on about how you stole money off your own son.
33:42I've stolen money off my own son, really.
33:45Do you provide for him? I try to.
33:47Well, are you working? Yeah.
33:49Then give money.
33:51How can I? Cos she won't accept it.
33:53Put it in a bank for him so you can tell him in ten years that you tried.
33:56I get him gifts. Does she accept the gifts? I don't know.
33:59Do you understand what I'm saying to you?
34:01Yeah, you understand what you're saying, Jeremy.
34:03I want you to not hit a short fuse so everybody can go,
34:05oh, it's that idiot from before.
34:07I want you to go, I'm going to be a better role model,
34:09I'm going to provide, I'm going to be consistent.
34:11Whatever she throws at me, I'm going to go,
34:14Well, what if the boot were a bucket?
34:16What if the boot were on the other foot, Jeremy?
34:19What if the boot were on the other foot, yeah?
34:22Right, so, let's do it this way, yeah?
34:25Right, so, I'm you and you're me, yeah?
34:29Yeah.
34:31You all right, Steve, yeah? Go on, then.
34:33Are you mad? Come on, man. Are you mad?
34:35Take it seriously. I'm just doing an impression of you, go on.
34:38Stop being serious, obviously, cos I want to chat with you, innit?
34:41That's what I'm on here for. Go on, then.
34:43Yeah, anyway, yeah, say if the boot were on the other foot,
34:47your partner or your kid's mum, yeah, basic...
34:52..access, yeah, and then you was ringing and ringing and ringing
34:55and texting and texting and texting and texting and asking, yeah,
34:58if you could see your boy, and then your kids,
35:01and then all you were getting, yeah, were just coldness.
35:04Coldness means nothing.
35:07Be the solicitors the first time that didn't happen.
35:10No, but I'm trying to say, can you understand it, though?
35:12Yes, I can, but you've got to understand...
35:14Would you do the same as me?
35:16I would. All right, I'm being honest.
35:18I wouldn't have acted like I did in the last two shows.
35:20I've made mistakes, but I wouldn't want anything for anybody to ever say,
35:23that would make you a bad dad.
35:25Nothing, no relationship, no job, absolutely zilch in my life
35:28will ever get in the way of me being a father.
35:30Somebody said... I did this the other day, right, you want me to be honest?
35:33That's what I'm trying to tell you.
35:35When you die, Jeremy Carr, what a legacy.
35:37If Jeremy Carr should say, get lost, I don't give a damn.
35:40My legacy would be, was he a good dad to his four kids?
35:42Did he do his best? That's all I'm saying.
35:44Exactly, exactly.
35:46Why do you think I'm here? Because I want to do my best.
35:49Me, me.
35:51You prove to me when I bring her out, you prove to me that Kai,
35:54not drugs, not arguments, nothing, is at the centre of your mind.
35:57It is about Kai, yes or no?
35:59It's always about Kai.
36:00Give me the chance. Amanda is back on the Jeremy Carr Show that way.
36:08..or anything, right?
36:10Did I expect to see him at all, you know?
36:12You've not given him nothing.
36:15So why lie?
36:16What do you mean, why lie, lad?
36:18Why lie? Why lie?
36:20Why lie?
36:21Lie about what?
36:23Why can't he see his kid?
36:24Why, because he kidnapped him, he assaulted me at Eiffen,
36:28took Kai off me...
36:29Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence?
36:31Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence?
36:33Did he get arrested for kidnapping the child?
36:35I got the police involved.
36:36Did he get arrested for kidnapping the child?
36:38No.
36:39Did he get arrested for assaulting, allegedly, you?
36:42As far as I know, yeah.
36:43What do you mean, as far as you know?
36:44You must know, because you've been the chief witness,
36:46because you've been the person who was assaulted in the first place.
36:49I've got crime numbers from the police.
36:51What crime numbers?
36:53I'm not sticking up for him, I want to help you.
36:55Do you think you are doing the right thing by your child?
36:58I am.
36:59What, what, what, what, what?
37:01He's not been there.
37:02What, by Kai not having a dad?
37:04What, Kai not having a dad?
37:06Kai's not having a dad? No.
37:07What, have you got me a present from Kai for Christmas?
37:10What's that?
37:11But he hasn't got him, no?
37:13Does he provide any money?
37:14I never got him, no.
37:15I never got him, no.
37:16So you didn't meet me in town at the bottom end of the market, yeah?
37:19That were off your dad.
37:20That were off me.
37:21That were off me.
37:22It was off your dad.
37:23What, the crocodile?
37:24Yeah, it was off your dad.
37:25It were wrong, actually.
37:26It were off your dad.
37:27You told me it were off me.
37:28We don't argue about a crocodile.
37:29Can I just talk about your kid?
37:31No, you can't see him.
37:32Then why can't he see his son?
37:33Why?
37:34Because he's violent.
37:35I've been evicted from my family.
37:36I'm not violent.
37:37I've been evicted from my family.
37:38There you are, answer that.
37:39Because of him.
37:40Because of him.
37:41Because the police removed me from my house with my kids
37:44because of him assaulting me.
37:45Answer that.
37:46What am I supposed to do now?
37:47Answer that.
37:48No, we were arguing.
37:49And the police said he wasn't allowed to see him.
37:51Is that true?
37:52There is no paper or court letter or any proof.
37:55An incident took place.
37:56There's no social service paper.
37:57There's no social service paper or anything.
37:59Exactly.
38:00Did they say for a period of time?
38:01Was it just a cooling down thing?
38:02Basically, they just said I had to leave the house for that day.
38:05But you have got a temper, haven't you?
38:06I admit, Jeremy Carlyle, I've got a temper.
38:08I've got removed from my house.
38:09I am not allowed to go back to my house.
38:10I've just had to...
38:11Are you scared of him?
38:12She's lying.
38:13Yeah, I'm petrified of him.
38:14The rest of my kids are scared of him.
38:15You're lying.
38:16You're lying.
38:17You're lying to me.
38:18There we go again now.
38:19We're going to lose it.
38:20Sorry, sorry.
38:21I'm not going to lose it.
38:22Don't call the mother of your kid the B word.
38:24I'm sorry.
38:25I'm sorry.
38:26That may end against a brick wall.
38:27Absolutely, totally for security, safety of every child.
38:28Just trying desperately to see if there's some common ground.
38:29Do you think him not seeing his kid is the right thing?
38:30Is it fair?
38:31He's not a dad.
38:32He's never been a dad to me.
38:33Why don't you give him a chance?
38:34My dad, on the last show, he really was a dad to me.
38:35He really was a dad to me.
38:36I'm not going to lose it.
38:37I'm not going to lose it.
38:38I'm not going to lose it.
38:39I'm not going to lose it.
38:40I'm going to lose it.
38:41I'm not going to lose it, I'm not losing it.
38:42I'm not going to lose it, I'm not.
38:43I'm not going to lose it.
38:53Every single day you said he was a good dad, but he was around
39:00Just said he wasn't and now you're saying you said he was no
39:03Yeah, that's that time ever since he's done what he did to me after last year
39:20Did you do that
39:23I
39:35Just worry that this child is gonna grow up in an environment in a horrible environment and
39:42And end up turning away from everybody because you two are too pig-headed or too bitter and twisted to stop your war
39:50again
39:51Why did he read if he's a toe rag in me out if he is a lowlife who takes drugs and doesn't give a toss
39:57Why do they come to me this morning and go you're not gonna believe this
40:00Mark phone the Jeremy Kosher because he wants to see his kid. Why would he do that? If he doesn't give a damn?
40:13He started I know I wound his neck in because if he's gonna get anywhere
40:17He ain't gonna insult you because whatever he thinks about you are the mother to his kid. That's it
40:22That's what you need to do. You too, isn't it? Yeah, Jeremy. Why can't you see I tried to win
40:28Oh, yeah, he's still in love with her. No
40:32Sending me messages of a week. He sent me some
40:35Why do you think look at the boy? Look at the boy. Look at him and look at me. He needs his dad
40:40He's got a better dad than you
40:42Oh
40:44See don't you know, why would you say that?
40:57Yeah to show you yeah, I'm Jeremy Kyle, yeah, I'm no offense to everybody else
41:01Yeah, how much I mean look with my son. My son is my life
41:06You
41:11Is someone you know leading a double life
41:14Maybe you suspect your partner of having a baby or an affair with someone else
41:18If you're 16 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show email talk at ITV comm along with your number
41:23Text talk plus your name to 633 34 text cost 25 pence plus one standard rate message or you can call my team today
41:30It's oh nine. Oh double one. It's one two, three, four, five six schools cost 25 pence plus network access charge
41:46Now he's gonna go nuts
41:53To me not said you look at me
41:55You see what I mean no Jeremy, but you do see what I mean
41:57She's using my kid as a weapon
41:59Yeah, but you did good didn't you cuz you didn't go in her face and you just sit there and I'll deal with it quietly
42:05Honestly
42:06How'd you feel if he was with a new girl? He'd had some issues
42:09You didn't have custody of a kid or the kid wasn't with you and he went got a better mom than you
42:14That's his father like it or lump it. I know
42:19Instead of this war
42:21Look I do what shall I just Jeremy? I'm not good dad. I'm not good. Dad. Yeah, I did not
42:29Information from my team we didn't buy these
42:42I bought him yet to show you yeah and Jeremy Kyle. Yeah, I'm no offense to everybody else
42:47Yeah, how much I'm in love with my son. My son is my life
43:09He's not just that's the point
43:15My family
43:18To me you better come on this show you better come on this show to his son
43:23No, he's a gender to me. I might give my you know, I did to me
43:27So why can't he see your son a contact center without you? It's not no, he's not seen. He's not seen him at all
43:33I
43:36Run in the car
43:39But let me go on you'll get
43:43Under day shouldn't have done what I did to me
43:45I really didn't put an aerosol can in his face speed an aerosol can in his face
43:49I really I really didn't think when I got this story this morning in my hotel room
43:53That he'd be back there with his head in his hands having paid his own money for that and that you'd be saying get lost
43:58To somebody in the audience. Let me just do this in the only way I know how
44:02Completely understand that you and here at loggerheads you hate each other, but it's become a
44:07No pain, Leah, don't you sit in love with him love this?
44:12Yeah, of course, there we go, who's the good dad yeah
44:15Yeah, how long have you known him a week? No, I'm actually I've known him 15 year
44:21See just can in a contact center. You don't have to be there. We'll control it
44:25Let him just let me say this one moment for him, right?
44:27If he is don't you dare if he is a waste of space look at me the Jeremy Kosher sorts the contact center
44:34He doesn't turn up because he's on a sesh chilling with his mates. Be quiet, right you go. They are son. I did it
44:40I did everything your dad's a waste of space. I'll stand next to you if you
44:44Are not there contact center. He turns up and he does it and then the next week
44:50He does it and the next week he does it and we're all blown away
44:54Isn't that good
44:59Isn't it good for Kai I'm not talking about what's good for you. I'm not talking about what's good for him talking about Kai
45:05So let me arrange it for him to see his son in a contact center on our terms
45:09And if he lets you down, I'll go to his damn house and I'll drag him out of bed
45:13And I'll give it to him. But if he is the father that somehow I think he is let's just do this
45:24My son's on the street
45:27See my son. That's why I brought him
45:30What they're what they're you can go see him after after the show, but can you just stop it all the violence, please violence?
45:37There is no violence Amanda the way father. Oh my this is why I haven't let you go to admit
45:41You made mistakes and you've done things. It's right. I don't want to come back on here today. I've come this morning
45:46Do you think I want to ask you a question?
45:48Did you attack her eyes that I since big moment actually look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me
45:51We get in there you did didn't you did what attacked her outside you pushed her outside icing didn't you look at me?
45:56I stopped her from walking away, but I didn't put my hands on her. I didn't
46:02Now
46:03Now how many times I've apologized to a giant now for me in front of me because I've done all this for you today
46:07No, I'm under. Yeah, I am really sorry for the way I've treat. Yeah. Yeah. All I want to do is see my boy
46:21Oh
46:39Listen to me both of you because this is the most unlikely thing ever
46:43The minute you go in that room you ever argue again in front of these
46:47He will be here in 20 years when we're all gone. Okay, don't mess this up
46:50Oh two of you now come with me. It's that way
47:06Thank you so much, it's the mother of your child respect. I know she is and fair play to you today
47:10Well done as well. All right
47:12Well done, sweetheart. Go
47:15Good lad. I am
47:20I
47:36Hello
47:42I'm gonna leave you listen to me. We'll work with you. We'll make it work. Thank you. And thank you as well
47:47Okay, we sorted out give him a round of applause
47:50Thank you very much
47:57I'll tell you whatever something I never thought I'd see we'll work with them
48:00We'll let you know but I am for this morning out of time
48:02If you want to be on my show, you need my help visit my website the details on screen to the guests the audience
48:06And to you at home. Thanks for watching. I'll see you very soon. Take care. Bye. Bye for now
48:13Tonight's on the Kyle files
48:16When you're in a gang your life is constantly in danger
48:21You used acid on something of course
48:24Face
48:26Through this motion with a bottle it was excruciating my skin was bubbling and smoking
48:45You