Seth Landman is a former writer for ESPN Fantasy. Seth joins the program to chat about the Celtics dominance, the influence of Kristaps Porzingis, and a surprising stat about the non-Jay minutes. Twitter: @slandman33
04:42 Celtics best players have clearly bought in
7:15 Boston much better in clutch minutes this year
12:35 Team continues to thrive in small non-Jay minutes
19:43 You can’t ask much more from Porzingis
31:00 Tatum’s MVP case is tough
Available for download on iTunes and Spotify on Sunday, November 19th, 2023. Celtics Beat is powered by Fan Duel! Go to FanDuel.com/Boston to get $150 in bonus bets on any $5 money line winner!
04:42 Celtics best players have clearly bought in
7:15 Boston much better in clutch minutes this year
12:35 Team continues to thrive in small non-Jay minutes
19:43 You can’t ask much more from Porzingis
31:00 Tatum’s MVP case is tough
Available for download on iTunes and Spotify on Sunday, November 19th, 2023. Celtics Beat is powered by Fan Duel! Go to FanDuel.com/Boston to get $150 in bonus bets on any $5 money line winner!
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00:00 As he cuts, Tatum notices him, just a nice, easy drop-off pass.
00:04 Poor Zingas keeps it high in the air, doesn't bring it low so somebody can swat at it and
00:09 make a knockout of his hands, and just dunks.
00:11 And that made a 102-100, and that ended up being the game-winner there.
00:16 I just don't see that happening last year.
00:18 This team, in those minutes, were stagnant.
00:21 This team, this time around, moves a little bit differently.
00:25 Celtics Beat, brought to you by FAN, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:34 What's up everybody, how you doing?
00:35 Welcome to a new edition of Celtics Beat, fresh off the seas, exhilarating, heart attack-prone,
00:42 or inducing, I don't know, I'm edge, I'm on edge, I'm on edge, I'm feeling a little frantic
00:50 off of this Celtics win in Memphis, just an electric performance that I'm still trying
00:57 to kind of calm down from.
00:58 You're probably listening to this, you know, Monday morning or the midweek or something,
01:04 because we come at you once a week.
01:06 That may be changing soon, by the way, but at the moment, we come at you once a week,
01:10 and we are recording this, I guess, opposite the Garden Report.
01:14 If you are a regular on CLNS, you're probably, you know, over there listening to live reaction.
01:20 We're taped, though, we're not live, and so we are sort of digesting this much as they
01:25 are in real time, except coming to you after the fact, which is why this bigger picture
01:31 show isn't going to be focused entirely on this game.
01:33 But what a way to start, considering what the Seas did in just another impressive close
01:44 and just sequence of plays that we can delve more, you know, deeper into.
01:50 But the way this team stays together when the going gets tough just continues to really
01:56 impress me.
01:57 It's my big takeaway through 13 games that has been my takeaway since the opening tip
02:04 off of the season.
02:05 They just stay together, and it's so much fun to watch.
02:09 Adam Kaufman, Ed Valente, Seth Laman is here.
02:12 You know, give the people what they want is what I say, Ev, and I think our views on YouTube,
02:20 our downloads for the podcast, generally our numbers are pretty consistent guest to guest.
02:26 But when it comes to commentary, be it in the YouTube chat or Twitter reaction, I'm
02:34 not kidding.
02:35 I'm not just saying this.
02:37 I'm just saying, you know, we really we get a lot of like, man, when's that Landman guy
02:44 going to be back on the show?
02:45 You are just you're insightful, my friend.
02:48 The people love it.
02:50 You're not just another.
02:51 You know, I don't want to like demean any of our guests.
02:55 We love our guests, but now keep blowing, blow some more smoke.
02:58 This is great.
02:59 Yeah.
03:00 I mean, you're not you're not a tape recorder in the locker room.
03:02 You know what I mean?
03:03 You're not a beat guy working your sources.
03:06 You are just you are just a lover of basketball who is not paid in any way, shape or form
03:13 to watch the game, to cover the game, to judge this, evaluate this team, to love life when
03:21 the Celtics are going hot and to want to die when they're not.
03:26 You are just a passionate fan, but able to view this team analytically.
03:31 And that is in large part other than the fact that I go back with you a million years and
03:34 I love you.
03:35 That's part of why you're here.
03:36 And so welcome back.
03:37 It's good to have you.
03:38 Thank you.
03:39 And man, I, I guess my, my, where I want to begin before we even go back to that Memphis
03:45 game is just this team is 11 and two.
03:50 It is the best record in the NBA.
03:53 And forgive me anyone listening for this sounding stupid.
03:58 It will.
04:01 I'm impressed.
04:02 Like I, I, I didn't, I like, I knew they were going to be good.
04:07 Obviously I knew they were going to be great.
04:09 I knew they were going to have a ton of wins finished somewhere in the fifties.
04:12 Maybe even if everything went insanely right sixties, but there's also a reason that I
04:17 spent so much of the off season, even post forcing us in holiday acquisitions saying,
04:25 I wouldn't be shocked if they, they hit the under, you know, they're like 50 to 54 wins
04:30 just because of load management or when injury strike and you know, a new unit, it's going
04:35 to take a little while to come together.
04:37 They've come together out of the gate and I just didn't see it being this good, this
04:42 smooth, this, you know, the continuity being this locked in this quickly.
04:48 So.
04:49 I think when you have this many, this much top end talent, you know, there's been all
04:55 these debates over the past few years about big threes versus big twos.
05:00 Is it better to have a big two and have more resources to like fill out the rest of the
05:05 roster or do you pump resources into the big three?
05:09 And that way if one of the big two gets hurt, you have like more flexibility.
05:12 The Celtics have six really good players.
05:16 And when you have six really good players, you know, even on like Derek white misses
05:21 a couple of games here and there, Jalen misses a game, it doesn't really make a difference.
05:27 Like their roster, basically, unless they're playing the Nuggets some night, their roster
05:32 is going to be better than any team they're playing.
05:37 So I like I'm sort of looking to see what happens as they get a little deeper into the
05:43 bench, maybe explore some lineups like that they haven't explored yet as we move forward.
05:49 But right now they're they're, you know, playing their top six.
05:53 The starters all played 34 or more minutes tonight.
05:57 Right.
05:58 You know, these were Hauser and Horford.
06:01 Yeah.
06:02 Aside from a couple minutes for Kata and Stevens, you're looking at like an eight man playoff
06:07 rotation basically.
06:08 So I mean, if that's what they're doing with the rotation, they really should be winning
06:13 these games.
06:15 So it's like it to me, the difference from last year is just, you know, beating the hell
06:21 out of teams that they're supposed to beat the hell out of most nights.
06:25 I mean, this this road game in Memphis, notwithstanding they won, but a close one probably probably
06:30 should have beat this team by more.
06:32 But and then the other difference is just what you were saying about staying together.
06:37 I think where we're in past seasons, they've like struggled to generate shots in the clutch.
06:45 I think I think they have a little more optionality when it comes to mismatch hunting now.
06:53 And that makes a big difference down the stretch of games.
06:57 Yeah.
06:58 So, I mean, it makes sense to me that they're 11 and two like, you know, you look at the
07:04 schedule and it's been kind of a tough schedule in some ways, but it's not like I mean, what
07:08 games were you expecting them to lose?
07:11 You just expect some losses to accumulate, but on a game by game basis, they should win
07:16 all these games.
07:17 And they've been in every game.
07:19 That's been in every single game.
07:21 They lost the Timberwolves game by, you know, an overtime had that had a chance to win and
07:27 Jalen misses a shot.
07:29 They had every every opportunity when that game in Philadelphia, the first one, and they
07:32 lost that one.
07:33 But they've been in every game.
07:35 They've blown some teams up and some close ones.
07:37 And, you know, you just you just add it all up together so far and they're just learning
07:42 a lot about each other in late game situations.
07:44 That is really exciting.
07:46 I had this the other day.
07:47 Bobby Manning piggybacked off this.
07:50 He had an article come out about it later.
07:52 And this is prior to the Memphis game.
07:54 So this will update later with with whatever, you know, last five minutes of the Memphis
07:59 game because that should be five more clutch time minutes.
08:02 But coming into this game, the Celtics boys and 25 clutch time minutes, they had an offensive
08:06 rating of one twenty five.
08:08 Eighty seven.
08:09 That's really good.
08:10 Eighty seven point eight defensive rating and a thirty seven point seven net rating,
08:15 which was second in the league, only the Dallas.
08:18 They've been really good in the clutch, which is a nice change from last year where they
08:23 were 11th and offensive rating.
08:25 They were 12th and defensive rating and they were eighth and net rating at four point six
08:29 last year.
08:30 Obviously, we have a long way to go.
08:32 Like there's obviously they're going to play a lot more clutch minutes and the numbers
08:35 are going to even out a little bit.
08:36 But this is like as you and the things that I find this year very interesting because
08:41 I'm looking at last year's team, looking at this year's team and just noticing some really
08:46 big differences right off the jump and just tracking to see how long these are going to
08:50 hold for.
08:51 I've been monitoring the post up stuff since day one.
08:55 It's hold solid at like a seven percent.
08:58 Boston's generating seven percent of their offense out of the low post, which is awesome
09:01 in comparison to two percent last year.
09:04 This is another reason how Boston is just much better this year.
09:07 They're much harder to guard this year because they're much better in situations.
09:10 And if we want to use an example from this particular game, it's the ending where Jason
09:16 Tatum's got on the right side, goes towards the middle, draws to and Porzingis cuts from
09:23 the left wing to get an easy basket.
09:26 As he cuts, Tatum notices him just a nice, easy drop off pass.
09:30 Porzingis keeps it high in the air, doesn't bring it low so somebody can swat at it and
09:35 make it knock out of his hands and just dunks.
09:38 And that made a one on two, 100 that ended up being the game winner there.
09:42 I just don't see that happening last year.
09:44 This team in those minutes were stagnant.
09:47 This team this time around moves a little bit differently.
09:51 Like Derek White, corner three late in the game.
09:54 Jalen's got it right side, passed to Holiday in the middle of the floor.
09:58 One kick pass to White in the corner, wide open for a corner three for Derek White, which
10:02 is as good as a layup.
10:04 This team has been able to focus and fine tune some things in certain areas and their
10:11 end of game execution is the reason why they're 11 and two and not like seven and six.
10:19 They could easily be much more towards the middle of the pack if they don't execute the
10:23 way they've been doing at the end of games.
10:25 This has been a nice, nice improvement for them to start 23, 24.
10:29 It's been great.
10:31 We don't have to, we don't have to talk about like Aldama missing a wide open three that
10:35 could have, no, we could just, yeah, there was one more shot on the other.
10:40 No, I just, you know, like, um, I mean, a hundred percent that was, that was a very
10:44 losable game.
10:46 Right.
10:47 Well, but that's the, and that's the thing about like, about close games is you're like
10:52 the close games, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some like weird stuff's
10:55 going to happen.
10:56 Evan as Evan just rightly pointed out, like the numbers will, will change as the season
11:01 goes along.
11:02 What, this is why, what I like is the, like, you know, you blow out Indiana by like 50,
11:07 you kick the crap out of the wizards.
11:09 Like I, the more of those games they have, the better.
11:13 And those games are the games that let Missoula maybe get a little deeper into figuring out
11:20 what combinations of players are going to allow him to have his best players on the
11:24 floor as much as possible and playoff games.
11:27 Like I think figure, I think they have plenty of bench pieces that are good players on this
11:32 team.
11:33 I don't think they necessarily have settled into the lineups that are going to unlock
11:38 those, those bench lineups in a way that lets Missoula keep his best players on the floor
11:43 as much as possible yet.
11:46 Is there a lineup that you are looking to see that maybe we have seen very minimally
11:51 to this point?
11:52 Obviously those minutes get tracked that you know, you want to see become more of a primary
11:59 lineup for them.
12:00 Yeah.
12:01 I mean, I guess like I've sort of become obsessed with this idea that I think, I think we all,
12:07 we've like for a couple of years now we've accepted it as kind of gospel truth that the
12:12 Jays need to be staggered.
12:13 Like you got it, you have these two great players, great offensive players.
12:17 One of them needs to be on the court at all times.
12:20 And I actually think the way Jalen to me, like I've talked about this a million times,
12:27 but Jalen is so dominant as an off ball player and has some struggles as an on ball player.
12:37 And so I just, I like any minutes when he's on the floor with Tatum, it just feels like
12:41 that unlocks him rather than when he's out there, you know, having to carry an offensive
12:50 unit, I kind of think it might be diminishing returns.
12:53 And so I don't know the answer to that, but I would like them to experiment with it.
12:58 There was seven, I think by my count, seven more minutes tonight of non garbage time with
13:05 both Jays on the bench.
13:08 Like they played those minutes even, which means, and now for the season, I guess it's
13:12 like up to 18 minutes plus 10, which is pretty amazing.
13:18 There's been more minutes than that, but those are the non garbage time minutes.
13:21 So like the minutes that actually matter.
13:25 So I just think it's, it's something that I would be interested in seeing them explore
13:30 more because it means more minutes in playoff games with both Jays on the floor, which is
13:36 like, to me, maybe the kind of thing I'm trying to maximize.
13:40 If those, what you have to look at is whether the Jalen and no Jason minutes are, if those
13:48 minutes are negative, then they're worth exploring.
13:51 Like they're worth experimenting with.
13:53 Cause if you can have a lineup, let's say a lineup of white and holiday with either
13:58 Al or Porzingis and maybe like Hauser and one more wing player, you know, if a lineup
14:06 like that can play even against decent teams, then, and a lineup with Jalen and a bunch
14:14 of bench guys isn't doing that.
14:16 I think that's worth experimenting with.
14:20 I think it's part of the biggest problem they've had in the past couple of years is how do
14:24 they win the non tater minutes?
14:26 And maybe one of the non tater minutes, you know, implies that Jalen Brown should be on
14:31 the floor either.
14:33 Or another idea is you just try and win the tater minutes by such an insane margin that
14:41 it doesn't matter where the non tater minutes are.
14:43 Like this is what Denver and you know, did a little bit of last season was like, okay,
14:48 once the Oakage comes off the floor, they crater, but they just killed everybody in
14:51 the Oakage men.
14:52 So it didn't even matter.
14:54 And it just like until very, very late in the season where you know, you get to your
14:59 top sixes, your top sevens and everybody's kind of locked in and again, they still beat
15:04 the Lakers like, like in the Western Conference finals.
15:09 And that just took care of business.
15:10 Cause he, the finals, like I say this, like they didn't just have an insanely effective,
15:16 efficient walk to the finals.
15:19 But like that was one of the biggest problems was how do they win the non, the non Oakage
15:23 minutes and some of the answers, sometimes the answer was, well, we're going to kill
15:26 you in the Oakage minutes.
15:27 It doesn't even matter what happens when he's on the floor.
15:31 Plus we'll be on the floor for a lot of time.
15:33 And it may be, again, this is something that they get Joe Missoula, the rest of the staff
15:37 has all season to solve is how do we get this, this, this Celtics team to be efficient without
15:43 Jason Tatum on the floor.
15:46 As we found out for the past couple of years, Jason Tatum plus four dudes equals probably
15:52 a plus lineup.
15:54 We've learned playing Derek Whitemore is a really great answer to a lot of questions.
15:59 And then just got to figure a couple more questions out again, maybe playing Derek Whitemore
16:03 is an answer, but I, you gotta, you gotta try some things as Seth said, like if it's
16:08 a negative lineup, then it means you should experiment more with other options to see
16:13 if you can fix it.
16:14 And I think that's a great idea.
16:16 Well, and to your nuggets point, if I don't like that's a different team.
16:22 And I know the narrative around the Jays is maybe that they don't, they don't like add
16:27 to each other.
16:28 It's not additive to have them on the floor at the same time.
16:31 I happen to think it is even if they don't necessarily have like this beautiful two man
16:36 game that like Yoko and Murray have.
16:39 But when you watch a nuggets game and you see the synergy that Yoko and Murray play
16:43 with, I mean, it makes sense to not stagger those guys.
16:45 Cause like the thing that's special is what they're doing together in many cases.
16:50 And so I don't know, I think it's, it's pretty cool the way Jalen is able to like dominate
16:56 on the second side of the offense when Tatum is in the game.
17:01 And I think that's a really powerful tool that I want to, I want them to be able to
17:06 go to for as many minutes as a game, a game as possible.
17:11 So this game in Memphis, and again, I don't want to spend too much time on this specific
17:15 game because that's not what we generally do on this show, but obviously it was, as
17:21 I said earlier, an electric win, it was a very losable game.
17:25 You mentioned the wide open three at the end there that very easily could have hit.
17:29 I mean, Saldana couldn't miss in that second half, you know, why wouldn't that one go in?
17:35 It didn't, you know, the rebound goes out to Memphis and ultimately Porzingis, the game
17:41 ceiling block, it was his sixth block of the game.
17:44 This was one of those games that was just kind of fun, kind of poetic in the way that
17:50 obviously smart was traded away for Porzingis.
17:54 Smart was unavailable due to his injury, which sucks.
17:57 He's not going to play for a few weeks.
17:59 That's a bummer.
18:00 But Porzingis was everywhere in this game, running around both ends, great offensive
18:04 night, great defensive night.
18:06 Like I said, he had the six blocks, but also drew holiday was kind of doing his, uh, I
18:12 had, I don't know.
18:13 It's cliche to say like drew holidays out there doing his best.
18:16 Marcus smart impression.
18:17 Drew holiday is, you know, he's in, in some ways, many ways better than Marcus smart.
18:24 So it's, it's, it's not like, you know, they, they're just very similar players defensively.
18:29 And in terms of their energy and their presence on the floor, you know, the, the whole hashtag
18:34 winning plays things still, you know, very much applies obviously to holiday in the way
18:39 that it does to Marcus smart.
18:40 It's just a little, I don't know, less frantic, maybe with holiday, a little more organized
18:45 chaos, if you will, which is not a dig on smart, loved smart.
18:50 As everyone who listens to this show knows, it's just, it's different.
18:53 It's very different.
18:55 Certainly offensively it's different, but defensively it's, uh, you know, there, there
19:00 are many similarities between the two.
19:02 So to see them both sort of show out in the way that they did opposite smarts, new team,
19:08 a bad team, or at least a team that has been bad without John Morant and the injuries they've
19:13 dealt with and all of that.
19:15 So when the way they did, it's, it just sort of reaffirms, obviously I'm sure Brad's vision
19:21 and Joe's vision and what these guys had been working to put together.
19:25 But as this continues to evolve, to go back to what I was saying at the very beginning
19:29 of the show and you a known, uh, you know, uh, someone who was, who was more hesitant
19:36 than others to fully buy into the Chris Dapps Porzingis experience.
19:40 You know, we last talked to you right after the acquisition and, or right after the first
19:45 game, I should say, when, when he had that awesome game against the Knicks.
19:48 Now that we're a few weeks into this thing and the game that we just saw, how do you
19:53 feel about what you're seeing in terms of his fit and you know, what's gone right?
19:59 What, what are you still looking for more of?
20:00 I mean, there's no question that he's been great.
20:04 Um, he's had like, he, he's doing what he's supposed to do.
20:07 He's totally bought in.
20:08 He, um, he protects the rim.
20:13 He, um, he's playing really hard.
20:16 Um, and yeah, he's like, I'm, I don't see what more you could ask from him.
20:22 I, to my question about him, there's like two questions I have about acquiring him.
20:29 One, one has to do with like team-wide passing.
20:33 I still am sort of concerned about that.
20:35 I think like bringing in Porzingis means that they have more options and holiday actually
20:41 means they have more options for guys who can like score one-on-one or, or take advantage
20:46 of a mismatch in the post, things like that.
20:50 Um, but I think you do see sometimes when the starters are in the game, you know, tonight
20:56 they only, they only attempted 31 threes.
20:59 And so I thought Memphis was able to like, sort of dictate, okay, the set, we know the
21:05 Celtics take a ton of threes that are like leading the league and taking threes.
21:08 Um, we're going to take that away from them a little bit and see how they respond.
21:13 And I think the offense did get stagnant at times.
21:16 Like I'm sure people will want to complain about some of the officiating, but you don't
21:20 commit eight offensive fouls in a game because like none of them are real.
21:25 Like, um, you know, that amount of offensive fouls committed in a game to me means your
21:31 team is kind of like forcing some stuff rather than like doing the easy thing.
21:37 And so that's one question I have about bringing in Porzingis is that I don't think he's like
21:42 necessarily a, like an instinctive ball mover.
21:47 So that's one piece of it.
21:48 The other piece is, um, is more a playoff question.
21:52 And I don't even know how much it'll come up in the regular season, but he, he has like
21:58 more, um, he has like really strong strengths on defense, protecting the rim, for example.
22:03 Um, and he has like glaring weaknesses, like the inability to move his feet while on the
22:08 perimeter.
22:09 And this team didn't have anybody with that weakness who was in the rotation a year ago.
22:15 And so I think, I think the current Celtics, I would say at this point, I feel like they
22:21 do have a higher ceiling, but there, I would say they're like slightly less Matt, slightly
22:28 more like matchup dependent.
22:31 And that scares me a little bit in a playoff series, depending on what team you face.
22:34 Like, um, yeah, I would still be pretty worried in a series against Miami, for example, like
22:42 a team that I trust to have the, like the coaching acumen to find a weakness and just
22:49 like naggingly pick at it over and over again for an entire series.
22:54 I think Porzingis has some vulnerabilities in that way.
22:57 So, but man, he's been amazing so far.
23:00 Like, and, and tonight he was playing his ass off.
23:02 He was great.
23:03 I just think he changes the geometry of stuff at the end of games and it makes it just way
23:09 off.
23:10 Like the thing that, you know, Brad said at the end of last season was we were too easy
23:13 to guard, you know, in these playoff matches like that Porzingis has brought in to flip
23:19 that script because they can, they can, they can do pick and, you know, they can do, you
23:25 know, whatever pick and roll you want to do, pick and pop, whatever with Porzingis.
23:29 And because of his shooting acumen, you have to just follow him everywhere and you can't
23:35 just help off whoever that is to double team the ball handler because Porzingis is just
23:40 an outrageously good shooter from a, from very, very deep.
23:44 Again, if he can punish smalls, if they, if they switch, he can put them out of the post
23:48 and take them more like, that's the stuff that, that, that is going to make a huge difference
23:52 to the Porzingis at the end of games.
23:54 If everything's going right, is there going to be able to be, you know, they, they can
23:59 pick on as many Mitch matches as they want to, as much as you want to talk about Miami
24:03 picking on them, they can be able to do that on the other end, which is huge.
24:07 And I think Holiday, what's been really fun about Holiday is this, like, he's like Rob
24:12 Williams on defense where he just roams around and like just doesn't have an assignment and
24:17 just kind of like does this thing where he just, he just roams out there and like all
24:21 of a sudden he's doubling somebody randomly out of nowhere and they don't know what to
24:26 do and all of a sudden it's, you know, the boss gets a transition opportunity or they
24:29 just, they force a bad shot.
24:31 Like that's, what's really fun to watch is like to watch them kind of like as a unit,
24:36 like Drew does this thing where he'll just like venture off and they all just kind of
24:40 like morph around that.
24:42 That's been a lot of fun to watch the past couple of weeks too.
24:44 So like they, they, what has me excited is like the additions have been such huge pluses
24:51 for them in ways that they definitely needed last year and the fact that they're starting
24:56 to grow and gel a little bit, like again, they're 11 and two, that's tremendous.
25:01 They're going to get better as they play more together, but you can kind of see it in real
25:05 time right now.
25:06 Like, Oh, like this, like this is a very interesting wrinkle.
25:10 It's a true holiday roaming thing is a very interesting wrinkle that like Marcus is good
25:14 at defense and Rob was excellent in defense, but because they're a little bit different,
25:19 it's easier for me to kind of watch because I just love watching true holiday do things.
25:25 It's not as easy to watch when like, I don't know, Rob Williams is, I want him to jump
25:29 out of the gym, not necessarily like be a roamer, you know, it's a little bit different,
25:33 but I, this team is, I think a little bit more complimentary of, of, of each other.
25:38 And like, I just think poor Zingas has been exactly what you wanted in and then, and then
25:45 some, I have, I have very little concerns.
25:49 It's about poor Zingas in terms of how this is going to work.
25:53 It's just a matter of like, if shots go down and if they can share the ball, like it's
25:56 in the games, they can share the ball like this at the end of games.
25:59 And it's not going to matter because that's been their biggest, biggest kryptonite.
26:03 I 100% agree with that for this team.
26:07 If the ball moves, they are unguardable.
26:10 Like, and I think the Jalen point, the play down the stretch with Jalen in the post that
26:15 you already pointed out is a great example.
26:17 Like if he, if he catches the ball in the post and two guys come at him right away and
26:22 he just immediately makes a quick pass, what you're going to have is guys like Derek white
26:27 or Chris steps for Zingas or drew holiday, or even Jason Tatum shooting like wide open
26:32 threes down the stretch of games.
26:34 I mean, if the ball moves there, you can't guard this team.
26:38 So that's simple.
26:41 Let's take a quick break, tell you about our, our, our good friends that occupy way
26:47 too much of my time and also make this show possible.
26:50 Yeah.
26:51 Often coffins and the degenerate category at this point, let's take a quick break though.
26:56 Tiny show is brought to you by fan dual score earliest NFL season and early in the NBA season
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27:17 If your team wins, you spend the money line.
27:20 We've been given out the MVP odds over the past couple of weeks.
27:25 And I just want to point out Seth is a, is someone who has been with this again, yo kids
27:31 was plus 400 to start the season for MVP.
27:37 It's now plus one 85.
27:38 I told you guys to get in when it was good.
27:42 Now the number is going to be way different.
27:44 But now as we look at that, Luca Dodge plus 500 number is very interesting to me and Curry
27:51 hanging out at plus 1600 again, something that I would keep my eye on if he can get
27:56 back and they make a big run.
27:58 Obviously he can, he can, he can win that award.
28:01 I don't think Tatum's going to win it.
28:02 I don't think I'm beats going to win it.
28:04 I don't think yas is going to win it.
28:05 I think this is a primarily three person race between Luca, Nicola, yo kitchen, Curry at
28:11 this point.
28:12 SGA odds.
28:13 Can I ask?
28:14 I'm sure.
28:15 I just, again, I don't know if they're going to win enough games for that's a really mad
28:19 and a lot of games right now.
28:21 J. Plus 2300 right now.
28:25 Plus 2300 for Shale.
28:27 That's a little, that's, that's juicy.
28:29 I mean he's had a hell of a season by more than 40 points.
28:33 We're about to be 10 and four.
28:36 Yeah.
28:37 So something to keep an eye on.
28:38 Oh, you know what?
28:39 Let's, let's monitor that one too.
28:41 Going forward here.
28:42 Cause that's your list.
28:43 We'll add J to listen.
28:45 Plus 2300.
28:46 That's pretty good.
28:47 Mods right there.
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29:58 So I wasn't really thinking about this until just a moment ago when Ev was breaking down
30:04 all that info and talking about the MVP race and how he doesn't believe that Jason Tatum
30:10 is going to find himself in consideration for this award this year.
30:15 Earlier on in this season and definitely in the off season, we've spent a lot of time.
30:21 I have definitely spent a lot of time talking about how, you know, obviously the most important
30:26 thing is winning a championship and they are this team these players United toward that
30:30 goal, but it's not uncommon for individual accolades to come tied into that stuff, you
30:38 know to win some of these things along the way best players win the best awards obviously
30:43 and I mean team awards as well.
30:46 Not just obviously individual and should we be at all?
30:55 That concern that's not the right word.
30:57 Is it noteworthy in any way if Jason Tatum who many fully expected like this is the MVP
31:04 Jason Tatum year, you know, he fell short last year wasn't really there at the end,
31:09 but obviously he had an insane season average 30 points a game all of that.
31:13 This was going to be the the locked in head down.
31:17 He's winning that award year in the eyes of many people coming into this season.
31:22 The fact that we're sitting here saying yeah, I mean Tatum's excellent, but I don't know
31:26 that he's MVP excellent.
31:28 Is that at all surprising to you is that is that striking in any form?
31:33 I actually think he's playing better than he's ever played.
31:38 I'm kind of blown away by him this year.
31:41 He I mean, I guess this was true the first couple of months last year when we were all
31:45 raving about the ball movement and stuff, but he's like he's really letting the game
31:50 come to him in some ways where I'm impressed how much he's not forcing it.
31:56 I know I've brought this up before, but I love when he's in the game with Pritchard
32:00 and he just like other guys are in the game with Pritchard.
32:02 They don't let Pritchard bring the ball up the floor.
32:04 Tatum just gives him the ball and then goes and does some stuff off the ball and comes
32:08 and gets it back.
32:11 He's letting his teammates make his life easier.
32:15 I don't think he's going to average 30 again this year.
32:17 I don't think he needs to, but I think his defense has been stellar.
32:21 There was a play down the stretch of this Memphis game where I couldn't tell who was
32:26 making the mistake if it was Jalen or if it was Derek White or maybe if it was Porzingis,
32:31 but big play down the stretch and Tatum screaming at everybody and getting them in the right
32:36 spots like as Memphis is coming down the floor.
32:40 He's like I'm just really impressed with I think you know if you're looking for reasons
32:46 why they're 11 and 2 he's like reason number 1, 2, 3 and 4 to me basically.
32:53 So he I mean we probably should be talking about him.
32:57 I guess the issue he's going to bump into is that if every player on the list of MVP
33:03 favorites has a really good season, Jokic is going to be the MVP.
33:10 I think Tatum you're not going to talk about him in a gambling promo because his odds aren't
33:15 going to be juicy enough.
33:18 He's too high up on the list, but if for some reason Jokic like misses some games or something
33:25 I think he's right there with guys like Luka and players like that.
33:30 Yeah I think this they can both be true like Jason Tatum's having his best season ever
33:34 and he's not really MVP candidate front runner just because there's too much talent on this
33:39 team like there's just they have five guys could score 20 points at any minute and wouldn't
33:43 be a shock to anybody like you know it's just whatever it is.
33:48 I agree with Seth that I think like the process that Tatum is playing with is probably the
33:52 best of his career and that's a really big bright spot for this team.
33:56 Again part of the things that we look for with this team is the not necessarily the
34:00 shooting numbers and so like the winner loss it's just like the process of the game how
34:05 their offense flows how their defense flows and Tatum is just doing a lot of really smart
34:11 things at this particular moment.
34:13 There's a reason why he leads the league at plus minus by like a mile over the person
34:19 in second which I believe was Drew Holiday coming into tonight so it's not like it's
34:23 any different right now but like again there's a reason why he's been so effective it's because
34:29 he's an excellent player.
34:31 Again the problem that he's going to run into is he's going to play you know with five guys
34:36 six guys that are all really great and you know I'm not saying Jokic doesn't have a great
34:40 team but like Jokic is counting stats are way more eye popping than what Tatum's are
34:46 going to be.
34:47 I mean like what do you have like somebody chirped at me on Twitter like that Tatum was
34:52 an MVP candidate.
34:53 I was like you know you're saying this to me the night after Nicola Jokic had 32 16
34:59 and 9 like what like you're just not going to have those counting stats and like a lot
35:04 of times MVP comes down to like who who has my favorite counting stats like which which
35:10 are my favorite like my Forbes and my schnorps do I or my like I made one of those up.
35:16 Yeah.
35:17 Like who's who leads in those categories like Tatum's like going to lead in certain things
35:21 but not in a ton of them.
35:22 And like that's fine.
35:24 Like I don't I think I think that's like who cares.
35:27 Like just just make sure the process is good.
35:30 The wins and losses will come as long as the process is good.
35:34 This team is good enough to win a title like I just don't care about anything other than
35:38 the process and injuries.
35:40 That's it.
35:41 He's going to be.
35:43 I was just looking at the numbers because the Nuggets actually got kind of beat pretty
35:47 bad.
35:48 The starters were like way negative tonight against the Cavs.
35:53 He's going to be over I think over 60 points ahead of anyone not on the Celtics in terms
35:59 of just like Rob plus minus this year and over he'll be like over I think over 50 points
36:07 ahead of anyone on the Celtics.
36:10 And so I mean maybe I don't know maybe we should be like yes Yoke it will have the better
36:16 accounting stats but I mean Tatum the way the season is going if you know Murray misses
36:22 more time is it is looking pretty pretty like they would have to have the best record by
36:28 a lot I think for they might they might they might I just I just don't see it like I don't
36:35 know I have concerns about this team having like the best record and again people are
36:43 like you're such a hater like no I'm not I think this team's awesome like let's just
36:46 get that over with but I don't like are they going to have that much of a better record
36:51 than the Nuggets or the the Wolves or the Sixers or what like the Heat or like whatever
36:58 like are they going to just be 10 games better than like that's if they are then yeah Tatum's
37:03 probably gonna win the MVP but like I just don't think like there's so much talent in
37:07 the league this year it is outrageous how good some of these teams are like Memphis
37:13 that line up day throughout tonight I mean holy moly man Kenny Lofton juniors getting
37:18 real play time the talent is amazing it was unbelievable like Dave David Roddy one of
37:25 my favorites got legit minutes tonight I mean I love how they kept pronouncing Vincent Williams
37:30 like it's like because like Vince Williams if that's like a because they have Zaire Williams
37:35 on this team like what a what a what a roster that that Memphis are out there tonight but
37:40 it is a really really talented league and and like Tatum if the Southers can just like
37:45 annihilate teams and and be you know eight games better in the winning column than anybody
37:50 else in the other than yeah sure but I just don't think that's gonna happen.
37:54 Last one for me it would you say that Jalen Brown has been inconsistent to start the year
38:00 or would you say that he's just had you know a few rough shooting games that's a good question
38:07 I feel like he's been pretty inconsistent I don't think it's just rough shooting I think
38:14 yeah I mean if my if my biggest like pet concern heading into the season was ball movement
38:21 I think he's the one who's gonna struggle with that the most like and I think I I feel
38:30 that he's pressing a bit like trying to you know I don't care to like try to figure out
38:38 why he's doing that if it's like to justify the contract or for any number of reasons
38:43 that people do like weird stuff at their job but to me it feels like he's pressing a little
38:49 bit trying to like force the issue against great defenders things like that I would just
38:55 love to see him like take the game as it comes and I think if he as soon as he does that
39:02 his efficiency skyrockets the points are still there all that stuff so I think he's been
39:08 really up and down and I think it to me it has a lot to do with is he attacking advantages
39:13 or trying to like create them out of thin air and when he attacks advantages he's like
39:21 one of the best players in the league when he tries to build the ones that aren't already
39:25 there I worry about that a little bit yeah I mean not hard not to argue a lot of that
39:33 I think there's been some moments of dealing I've been very impressed with the vision though
39:37 I will say like there there are moments where I'm like oh okay like that was really nice
39:41 like he had a value to forcing his dealer night where I was like I can't believe you
39:45 do that like well tonight - yeah so like they're like I don't know maybe you know there's still
39:50 something to crack there maybe they can they can find a way because in sometimes that ball
39:54 movement stuff is contagious and and they you know if they're all sharing the basketball
40:01 that could rub off on jail in a positive way you know they'd have again between white in
40:06 in holiday and Tatum there's three guys that are plus that and you know if they can they
40:11 can bring porzingis who's I think been a really good you know guy in terms of sharing the
40:15 basketball things been pretty good maybe they can rub off on Tatum and Brown and have him
40:20 share the ball a bit more it could go a long way again I'm thrilled with this team is right
40:26 now at 11 - it's just been an incredible start of the season well actually they were 21 and
40:31 five in their first 26 this feels different and it feels way better totally agree is the
40:38 upcoming schedule you'll notice by the way we did not talk about the in-season tournament
40:42 because I don't care I am really I just want to say I'm really psyched about the in-season
40:50 tournament I think it's great yeah yeah well I don't know what do you think that matter
40:56 it's gonna be way better what is there to complain about here I don't understand I'm
41:00 not complaining about it I'm not like bitching at it's happening it just doesn't impact my
41:05 life in any way that it is happening maybe I will change my mind and and get really into
41:10 it when we get out of group play but right now just to get into it this is a choice you
41:15 can make there are lots of choices I can make it's just the courts are horrible so that's
41:22 distracting they're not horrible they're fine no no I get the different I will I will know
41:28 that I like they're different okay wait here's what I want to ask can we here's what I would
41:33 like to do not just with the in-season tournament but just in life like can we all just agree
41:40 to like let things happen for like a little while before we decide how we feel about them
41:48 all about aches in real time yeah cares about that I just like I just want to like I just
41:55 want to wait and see how it goes for like a few weeks before I have to like all right
42:00 but let me let me slightly it's not it's it's it's not completely apples to apples but I
42:08 mean you are someone who like I might say you know like where this is going hey hey
42:14 Seth check out this movie like I love it you'll love it too why don't you watch it and you'll
42:22 put it on and decide 15 or 20 minutes into it that you hate it and you'll turn it off
42:28 sorry is this thing on I'm having trouble hearing couldn't couldn't I say you know why
42:33 don't you like spend the two hours of your life maybe even 90 minutes watch the entire
42:38 thing all the way through and then decide like why don't you then tell me whether or
42:43 not you like the movie as opposed to judging it I have okay whatever fine that's fair fine
42:48 fine fine you're right that's fair that's fair it's a fair critique thank you that's
42:54 that's how I feel about these I think my critique is I'm judging it as I go fair all right very
43:03 good oh you can't tell if you're good gobs huh my eyes are so later well big gulp so
43:15 well so I don't even know when the next in season tournament games are also don't care
43:21 they tomorrow regular Monday I mean to Tuesday is that I don't know the regular season game
43:27 so it really doesn't matter the next game for the Celtics is Monday it's it's probably
43:33 later tonight as you listen to this show so just know that you haven't wasted your time
43:39 Charlotte on a Monday that famous Tatum line Charlotte on a Monday yeah oh Charlotte on
43:45 a Monday that's right yeah they put this on the schedule just for him so that'll be fun
43:50 Kemba Walker should be no no Kemba no Michael will Michael Jordan be there as yeah all right
43:56 well Celtics will play at Charlotte a game with Milwaukee Giannis and Dame that'll be
44:01 fun get our first look at that if everybody actually plays in this game that's a real
44:07 night-to-night question the NBA not a critique of the Celtics by the way they are generally
44:12 available but some of these stars on other teams not so much so we will find out and
44:16 then Caesar at Orlando Friday and then they play Sunday against the Hawks back at the
44:23 garden that is the next four that is the upcoming week we will come to you somewhere along that
44:28 line and talk more about what is happening with this team but as we always like to tell
44:33 you great review please do subscribe most importantly Celtics beat comes at you once
44:39 maybe soon twice per week and we just love talking about this team giving you something
44:43 a little bit different hopefully anyway from the other great many Celtics podcasts that
44:49 are out there in this space so layman thank you for hopping on as always we'll do it again
44:55 thanks for having me of course Ev be good thank you I'm Adam and hey talk to you next
45:02 time enjoy the games
45:03 you
45:05 you
45:07 you
45:09 you
45:11 (upbeat music)
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