Jay King and Sam "Jam" Packard are baffled by the Jayson Tatum/Brandon Jennings spat.
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00:46Welcome back to...
00:48Stale Potable!
00:50The best Boston Celtics podcast here on Al Gore's internet.
00:54I am Sam Jam Packard, professional sports fan.
00:57And I'm joined by the original kid, god, and legend himself from The Athletic, Jay King.
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01:33Jay?
01:35I gotta stop you. I gotta stop you.
01:38You are the softest Boston Celtics podcaster of all time.
01:43You know, what do the Celtics say?
01:47When the game speaks for itself, the whispers get louder, Jay.
01:51That was a good line. That was a good line. I'm not gonna lie.
01:56Was that quoting something, or did they come up with that all by themselves?
02:01I feel like whoever came up with that, I don't know. I'm Googling it right now.
02:07But that's like β I'm not used to it. That's the crazy thing.
02:12A lot of people have criticized Jason Tatum over the years.
02:19I feel like there's been so much Jason Tatum discourse,
02:23especially with the Olympics this past summer where he got those DNPs.
02:29And there's always been a discussion of Jason Tatum's not a top-five player.
02:33Jason Tatum isn't this. He isn't that.
02:36He can't be the best guy on the championship team.
02:40Even him saying he has no aura and stuff like that after they won the championship.
02:45Like, oh, Jalen Brown won the finals MVP.
02:48Has Jason Tatum ever really clapped back or commented on that?
02:54Because there's nothing I can really β
02:56There was a time when Perkins shitted on Tatum.
03:00He's clapped back at Kendrick Perkins before, I think.
03:05Not really, but he said something like,
03:07normalize uplifting one person without putting down another or something like that.
03:13That's a more positive message.
03:15I can't really remember him clapping back too many times.
03:23It's just not his personality. It's not his thingy.
03:27He downplayed everything.
03:28Somebody put it on Twitter, an old clip of Tatum in some podcast,
03:33saying that one of the things he hates is when people call him soft.
03:37That's his go-to.
03:39It might just be the thing that ruffles his feathers enough that he decides,
03:44what the fuck.
03:46For him, it's crazy to me because I thought after the Celtics not just won a title,
03:51but trounced everybody en route to a title, that they would come back.
03:57At least for a while, there would be just a ceasefire on Jason Tatum.
04:05Instead, it's gone the other way around.
04:08There's just no shortage of people out there ready to put him down.
04:15Even though he's well on his way to a fourth straight first-team All-NBA season,
04:20in all likelihood, he's had probably the best season of his career.
04:24Then he's got Brandon Jennings, of all people, chirping him from the cheap seats.
04:29Do you think maybe it was Brandon Jennings that pissed him off a little bit?
04:37I don't even really get the criticism.
04:39There are things you can critique about Jason Tatum's game,
04:44but I don't think soft is the thing that would ever come to mind.
04:48The guy plays more games than anyone else in the league.
04:51He's not like someone who's going to be up in your face fighting.
04:55I think that's what it is.
04:57He gets a lot of technical slapping.
05:00He's not going to ever go full Dylan Brooks.
05:04Or even like mild Dylan Brooks.
05:07He's just not going to do that.
05:09I think that's why the commentary about softness, which is crazy,
05:15after the guy just led the Celtics in points, rebounds, and assists
05:20on the way to an easy championship in a 64-win season.
05:25He's been first-team All-NBA three times.
05:28You don't do that if you're soft.
05:30You don't get through the losses that the Celtics have gotten through
05:33and make it to the other side with a championship if you're soft.
05:36You just don't.
05:38But believe it or not.
05:41I watched this clip before there was backlash to it.
05:47I have muted Gilbert Arenas' name on Twitter.
05:51I think it's the only thing.
05:53He just has malarkey takes.
05:57Absolutely malarkey takes.
05:59I don't even know if it's intentional.
06:01He just feels like he says wild shit no matter what
06:03and invites a weird brand of NBA player.
06:06All the people who are on that show,
06:09it's my former employer, The Underdog Fantasy,
06:11but it's like Nick Young, Rashard McCants, and Brandon Jennings.
06:16They all just kind of have an out-there and real stubborn opinions
06:20that feel like I'm trying to determine if it's intentionally inflammatory
06:24because it doesn't feel like first take-y to me.
06:27It just feels like they have bad takes and they genuinely believe them.
06:30I think they genuinely believe bad takes is what it is.
06:35I muted Gilbert Arenas because his takes would piss me off.
06:39His takes about the entire league, I would get them in my For You column
06:43and it would just be like I'd be enraged for no reason whatsoever.
06:47So I just decided to get that rage out of my life and mute Gilbert Arenas.
06:51However, when Brandon Jennings is on Gilbert Arenas' show,
06:55that was not muted because it was Brandon Jennings, not Gilbert Arenas saying it.
06:59So I did watch it.
07:01And there's a huge difference between calling a guy soft
07:04and saying he's the softest Boston Celtics superstar.
07:08Because if you're calling a guy just soft versus he's softer than Bill Russell
07:13and Larry Bird, depending on how you define superstar here,
07:20you're calling him softer than some all-time greats.
07:26And so I do think there's a distinction there.
07:30And then also later in the clip, Gilbert Arenas was like baffled.
07:34I was on Gilbert's side on this one.
07:36Gilbert was like he's averaging 28.
07:37Like how soft is this guy?
07:39Gilbert probably said that because he averaged 28 a couple years.
07:43Didn't consider himself soft.
07:45Wanted to let him know that he was not soft.
07:48But then Brandon Jennings kind of walked it back
07:51and he's like soft probably isn't the right word.
07:55So he did say it and then he took it back
07:57and then they had a whole conversation about it.
08:01I think what he's trying to say is that you don't always get a ton of emotion
08:07out of Jason Tatum.
08:09Which is a fair β like I don't even think it's a critique.
08:12It shouldn't be a critique.
08:14That's a true observation.
08:15But some people think it is a critique.
08:17Some people think he doesn't have enough fire in him.
08:21Okay, but he destroys people in clutch games.
08:26He had 50-something in a game seven.
08:29He had 50-something in a play-in game when the Celtics needed to win.
08:35He's had series where he outplayed Kevin Durant.
08:38He's had series like the dude.
08:40On the road game six against the Bucs.
08:42I saw that.
08:43One of the best elimination game on the road performances
08:48maybe we've ever seen.
08:50I saw the highlight package of that game recently.
08:52Tomek, the guy who puts together all the Simpsons clips.
08:55One, he was so good in that game.
08:57All the Simpsons clips did you say?
09:01If I did, that's not what I β
09:02Maybe that's what I heard.
09:04I think you said all the Simpsons clips.
09:06All the Celtics clips.
09:08Celtics clips.
09:09The Simpsons clips would be a wild venture for Tomek.
09:11But one, Tatum was so good in that game.
09:14Just absolutely dominant.
09:15And that's a game six on the road that they needed to win.
09:18But he also looked smaller in that game compared to now.
09:21He has gotten so much bigger.
09:22That was my big takeaway and observation.
09:27The distinction about he's the softest Celtic superstar.
09:32What kind of conversation is that?
09:34Who's the softest Lakers superstar?
09:36Who's the softest Bulls superstar?
09:39It's just like a weird thing.
09:40Take away the word super.
09:42Who's the softest Celtics star?
09:45We're going to have a discussion right now
09:46about who actually is the Celtics' softest superstar.
09:52I asked this to chat.
09:53And people β
09:54There's the obvious answer.
09:56But I don't know if this β
09:57I would have characterized this guy as soft.
10:00But everyone immediately said Kyrie.
10:03And did Kyrie give up on the team?
10:05Yes.
10:06Is Kyrie a big-time liar?
10:08Yes.
10:10Was Kyrie disgruntled and make the locker room bad?
10:12Yes.
10:13But I never really questioned Kyrie's toughness.
10:15Maybe mental toughness.
10:17But I would not describe Kyrie Irving as soft.
10:22I think we have an obvious answer.
10:25I just looked up all the Celtics Hall of Famers.
10:29Most of them are incredible, incredible NBA basketball players.
10:33The other is Dino Raja.
10:36Dino Raja.
10:37Dino Raja is soft?
10:38I would not label him a superstar.
10:40He's in the Hall of Fame, though.
10:41Was Dino Raja soft?
10:42That was one of the worst defenders of all time.
10:44I believe he once said that if he scores on one side,
10:47it's okay to give up a bucket on the other.
10:49I did not know this about Dino.
10:51Dino is like the β
10:52I don't know if that's a direct quote.
10:54Please don't hold me to that.
10:58But β
10:59I'm generally aware of Dino, but he was β
11:01But I wouldn't call him a superstar.
11:03He's in the Hall of Fame.
11:05Horrible Hall of Fame pick.
11:07I know he did a lot of stuff overseas.
11:10But he did it overseas because he wasn't good enough to do that in the NBA.
11:16I still think calling him a star is excessive.
11:18He was not a star for his four years while he was in the Boston Celtics.
11:22Yeah, okay.
11:23Dino is disqualified.
11:29It's no one from the big three, like the 08 team.
11:33Would you call Ray Allen soft for going to Miami after a simple trade request?
11:39I bet Brandon Jennings might call Ray Allen soft.
11:43Well, the thing you said about Brandon Jennings, he walked it back.
11:47Then Tatum puts his little caption on Instagram,
11:49and Brandon Jennings has not walked it back.
11:51Fueled a little bit by Drew Hanlon going to bat for his guy.
11:54Drew Hanlon's coming out firing at Brandon Jennings.
11:57But then Brandon Jennings is like,
11:58oh, I'm going to be there in June.
12:00I'm going to be sitting courtside.
12:03It's like their show got canceled and they're like,
12:05it's too bad because I would have had some stuff for Jason Tatum.
12:08The funniest thing about Brandon Jennings.
12:10Their show got canceled?
12:11No, because of the fires in LA.
12:15Oh, I thought you meant it was over.
12:17I thought this was like the last take they released out into the world.
12:20That would be wild.
12:21I was going to say that.
12:22I'm surprised I missed that news.
12:25But Brandon Jennings posted on his Instagram,
12:27these like infographics that must have been from 2019.
12:33Where it was like ranking Jason Tatum compared to all the Celtics stars.
12:37But it had Jason Tatum's career points per game at 19 points per game.
12:43And so he's just like,
12:44Brandon Jennings is so in his feelings or just like on the offensive
12:48that he's posting Facebook graphics from more than five years ago.
12:52It just turned into like a weird.
12:54Because he's averaging 23 and a half points a game in his career at this point.
13:00That's actually a lot lower than I would have anticipated.
13:03Well, he played as a 19-year-old.
13:06On a team with a bunch of other guys.
13:08And averaged like 13 points a game or whatever it was.
13:10So lately it's been a lot more than that.
13:13But it takes you a little while to overcome the first couple years
13:17when you weren't scoring all that much.
13:20Do you think that this, whatever kerfuffle,
13:23brouhaha changes the way Jason Tatum plays the rest of the season?
13:28Because if I had to guess, I would say can't get too high, can't get too low.
13:33He's going to approach the game the exact same way
13:35because that's who Jason Tatum is.
13:37And he's just not like a guy who seems fueled by.
13:40And frankly, I'm still kind of surprised he mentioned anything on his Instagram.
13:45I'm surprised he fought back at this one.
13:48Like it's not.
13:50It's giving it so much more weight than it needs.
13:53I mean, offense, offense.
13:56I was going to say no offense, but offense.
13:59Like it's Brandon Jennings.
14:01This is not like somebody on ESPN's top show.
14:05It's not Stephen A. Smith who has a lot of clout in the sports broadcasting world.
14:11It's not a former player who's an all-time great
14:14who's bashing you, taking a shot at you.
14:17It's just some guy who has like a barbershop type TV show or streaming show.
14:24He's not even the main guy.
14:25He's a bit player on a barbershop TV show.
14:28On a network that employed me, of all people.
14:32Yeah, so I am surprised he took the time out of his day to come back at this one.
14:42But like to me, it all comes back to.
14:47I think those guys, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
14:51thought they would win a title and all that shit would go away.
14:55And everyone would give them their flowers.
14:57And everyone would bow down to them.
14:59And everyone would say, you know what?
15:01Whatever we've said about you in the past, it doesn't apply anymore.
15:05You guys are champions.
15:07And instead, they found that that's not how it works.
15:12At least that's not how it works for them.
15:14And all the same stuff they used to hear is still there.
15:20Which is kind of wild.
15:22I understood it.
15:23I feel like KD went through the same thing when he went to the Warriors.
15:26Where he thought like, oh, I won my championships now.
15:28You can't say shit about me.
15:30And I kind of understood that because it was like he was joining the 72-win Warriors.
15:35And it's this super team.
15:37But like there is such a thing in the NBA.
15:40Like rings culture is something that we talk about.
15:43And being a champion feels like it's so sometimes overvalued.
15:47Where it's like you can diminish a guy's career because he never got that ring.
15:52And so for the Celtics to finally accomplish it.
15:54And then just it's really confusing what the exact like genesis is.
16:00Or the reason why that criticism hasn't abated at all.
16:04It's because the Celtics were too good.
16:06That's a good word.
16:08I've been to school once or twice.
16:10But like were they too good last year?
16:12A couple Ivy League degrees.
16:14Our old school listeners will appreciate that one.
16:18You can see the Ivy League right there.
16:20He once lied that he had two Ivy League degrees.
16:22Because I had him so flustered.
16:24He was so pissed off at me that he claimed he had two Ivy League degrees.
16:29But he didn't.
16:31Many people think of Bowdoin College as the Ivy of Maine.
16:34Just saying.
16:36I mean you should be proud of the NESCAC.
16:39It's okay.
16:41No it's great.
16:43Trinity College.
16:45Amazing men's basketball team this year.
16:47Are they going to win the D3 National Championship?
16:50They have a real shot.
16:52My brother is an assistant coach there.
16:54Shout out to.
16:56They just lost their first game there the other day.
16:58They were I believe 13-0.
17:01Actually Bowdoin College almost beat Harvard like two days ago.
17:06They lost by four points which is crazy.
17:08NESCAC is legit this year.
17:10NESCAC is always legit.
17:12But this year especially there's a bunch of really really good teams.
17:16Well if you wanted to go see some NESCAC basketball.
17:20Or maybe some Boston Celtics basketball.
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18:16Now Jay, it's time for one of our weekly segments.
18:19One that got a shout out.
18:21From Abby Chin on your...
18:23You know...
18:25What do you call that?
18:27Power Rangers podcast?
18:29The meeting of all the podcasts.
18:31The Avengers. Celtics Avengers.
18:33Now the fun part about that podcast for me.
18:34As a raging narcissist.
18:36Is that I did get a mention in the first 30 seconds.
18:39So that was cool.
18:41I did feel good about that.
18:43But Abby Chin's favorite segment is...
18:49You had to call it Stuff Joe Says.
18:51But we call it Shit Joe Says.
18:53And this is where we like to highlight the most interesting head coach in the National Basketball Association.
19:00Because he's saying weird stuff.
19:02This entire...
19:04Before games. After games.
19:06And the first one is directly related to...
19:09What we were just talking about.
19:11He said earlier in the year.
19:13That he would like to have coins.
19:16Every person has a coin.
19:18Five coins.
19:20And if you get angered or upset.
19:23You get to turn one of those coins in.
19:26And immediately challenge that person to fisticuffs.
19:29And when asked about the Brandon Jennings comments.
19:32He said Tatum should have used his coin.
19:34Which I think is awesome.
19:37But something Tatum would never do.
19:39Wouldn't that be so funny?
19:42If he could just...
19:44Before the next game.
19:46Just fight Brandon Jennings.
19:48At center court.
19:50Talk about the NBA ratings.
19:52People would tune in for that.
19:54If you just give him a couple rounds at center court.
19:56That would be wild.
19:57People would tune in for that.
19:59And then you would have to really whip his ass.
20:01Because if he calls you soft.
20:03You can't let him be in that fight.
20:06How tall is Brandon Jennings?
20:09Tatum is like dwarfs Brandon Jennings.
20:11I think he's like 6'3".
20:13I would favor Jason Tatum in that fight.
20:16Even though he doesn't seem like a fighter.
20:18What's the angriest you've seen Tatum...
20:20At another player during a game?
20:23Because I feel like we've seen JB get in a lot of guys faces.
20:25But I can't remember Tatum...
20:27Jawing at someone specifically.
20:30I would say the angriest he ever was...
20:32Was at Grant Williams.
20:34But he didn't go at Grant Williams at all.
20:36He just did what he does.
20:38Which is just bounce up.
20:40Pretend like he's not affected by getting hit.
20:42Or in this case tackled by Grant Williams.
20:45That was probably the most pissed off he's been.
20:48I would think.
20:50I can't remember any moment of him...
20:53Jawing in the face of some guy.
20:55Or talking shit to a specific person.
20:57How crazy would the crowd go...
21:00If he was at TD Guard.
21:03And just started going nuts on someone.
21:06I think the crowd would love that more than anything in the world.
21:10Because he is usually reserved.
21:12Because he doesn't talk a lot of shit.
21:14Because he doesn't...
21:16Like he did the too small gesture the other day.
21:18Against Peyton Watson.
21:20It was like, what? Jason Tatum's doing that?
21:22That's out of character.
21:24Even if he got like...
21:25When Joe got ejected earlier in the year.
21:28And he had to be held back.
21:30Even if he just did that.
21:32After a clapping ejection.
21:35I just can't imagine Jason Tatum ever having to be held back.
21:38From a fight like that.
21:40The garden would go fucking insane.
21:42It would go nuts.
21:44And whoever did it against him would immediately become...
21:47Maybe he's just saving it for a game they needed.
21:50If anyone would tell you...
21:51To know the power of that.
21:54And to let you know that that could just be a tool to use.
22:02In case the Celtics are in need of a lift.
22:05It would be Joe Mizzoula.
22:07Because he's all about psychological warfare.
22:10He's all about...
22:12He calls it like...
22:14What does he call it? Manipulating the environment.
22:16And that would be one hell of a way to manipulate the environment.
22:19If they were down five in a playoff game.
22:22And he just started going at Evan Mobley.
22:27Just forehead to forehead with Evan Mobley.
22:32The crowd would go fucking bonkers.
22:34I think he's got to do it at some point now.
22:37The more that I talk about it, the more he's got to...
22:40Threaten to fight someone.
22:43So that the TV Garden crowd would go crazy.
22:45But it completely changes the tenor of the game.
22:48He swings a playoff series.
22:50Who do you think the player is who's most likely to draw that ire?
22:54I have an idea.
22:56And unfortunately he just, I think, tore his ACL.
22:59But I do think it was going to be Mo Bogner.
23:04But Mo wouldn't guard him.
23:07I feel like it'd be somebody who was guarding him all the time.
23:11I'm trying to think of somebody.
23:13Who it could be in the East.
23:16Josh Hart?
23:18It could be like Lou Dort.
23:20I could see that.
23:22Like Lou Dort just kind of frustrates you.
23:25And...
23:27Andrew Nembhard?
23:29And he's super physical.
23:31Aaron Neesmith?
23:33All of a sudden you just swing on Lou Dort.
23:35And change the entire NBA Finals.
23:37It would be something like Neesmith doing something dangerous.
23:40And Tatum would just be like, I'm...
23:41I am a superstar here.
23:43You're threatening my livelihood with your crash shenanigans.
23:47That's what I could see.
23:49Trying to bring him over the edge.
23:52The more we talk about it, I really think he's got to do it at some point.
23:56Because the crowd would reach a high it almost never reaches.
24:02It's like you're down six with three minutes left in the fourth quarter.
24:06That type of reaction.
24:07If Jason Tatum was in someone's face.
24:10Just going crazy.
24:12And then turned around and did like a, let's go!
24:15And then did it to the crowd.
24:17It would be a wild moment.
24:19I think he needs to do it.
24:21It would be electric.
24:23The other part of Brandon Jennings' comments.
24:25Was that he said he would be more afraid of Jalen Brown.
24:28On the court than Jason Tatum.
24:30Does he mean basketball wise or physically?
24:33Because yeah, Jalen Brown...
24:35I think he means basketball wise.
24:37Because I think what he's trying to say is like...
24:42I'm not going to agree with him here.
24:44But I will acknowledge this.
24:47Last year I thought Jalen Brown set the tone for the Celtics.
24:52He was just on an absolute mission the whole season.
24:55He was on a mission in the playoffs.
24:57He was not going to let them slip at all.
25:01And he has that ability.
25:03Joe mentioned it after he had a great game against the Pacers.
25:06He had 40 something points against the Pacers.
25:09And he had a bunch of steals and big dunks that set the crowd crazy.
25:14And Joe said he just kind of has a gift for using his physicality
25:18to ignite his team, the crowd, everything.
25:22And Tatum does it in a different way.
25:27So I understand almost.
25:29I'm like...
25:30I'm like giving Brandon Jennings way too much credit here.
25:35Because this is not what he meant.
25:37If you're talking about physical impact on the court,
25:40I can hear the argument in terms of like,
25:43who's going to take it to you?
25:45Who's like most physically pounding hurt?
25:48Like felt by the other team.
25:51I feel like yes, that's Jalen Brown because of what he does on defense.
25:54But just because he is feels like a more aggressive player.
25:56But just in terms of like strictly basketball,
25:59Jason Tatum's a phenomenal...
26:02I wouldn't say he's leaps ahead of Jalen Brown,
26:05but I think he's clearly just like a much more dangerous basketball player.
26:09But I agree with you.
26:11If it's just terms of like imposing their will on the game,
26:14it feels like Jalen Brown has a much more ability to do that with his defense.
26:19Like sure, Tatum can do that.
26:21But Tatum does that when he hits like seven threes in a game
26:24rather than just like not letting a guy cross half court.
26:26Yeah.
26:28And he just...
26:30They have two different brands of basketball,
26:32totally different brands of basketball.
26:34And it works out perfectly.
26:36I just...
26:38It's so dumb to call him soft.
26:40And it's so dumb to question the heart of somebody
26:49who has been through as many bad losses and tough losses as Jason Tatum had
26:54and come out on the other side.
26:56Like how many teams have been absolutely broken
27:01by getting deep in the playoffs,
27:03by having failure,
27:06and then you just never reach that level again.
27:09And these guys had so much of it.
27:11They had the Kyrie year when everything went wrong.
27:14They had the devastating loss to the Heat in the conference finals
27:20where they came back from 3-0
27:22and lost game seven on their home court by 20.
27:26They've had...
27:28I don't know what was Tatum's soft...
27:30When they went to the finals the first time
27:32when they absolutely blew game five at home against Milwaukee
27:38after leading by 12 points, I believe, in the fourth quarter.
27:42And then you have to win on the road.
27:45Jason Tatum had like 46 on the road against Drew Holiday,
27:48a lot of those buckets.
27:50It's like this is the guy you're going to call soft,
27:53the guy who is always in the conference finals,
27:54the guy who just won the championship,
27:56the guy who's been to the finals twice
27:58and learned the first time he was in the finals
28:00that he couldn't do that shit again,
28:02and then came back the second finals
28:04and shot like shit,
28:06but didn't let it affect anything else
28:08and still led the Celtics in points, rebounds, and assists,
28:10and still dominated games,
28:12and still was everything for the Celtics.
28:15That's the guy you're going to call soft,
28:17the guy whose shot can go totally missing
28:19for an entire playoffs and still lead his team
28:21to a 16-3 record in that playoffs.
28:23And still plays some of his best basketball ever
28:25in that playoffs despite the shooting.
28:28I just don't get it.
28:30It's so dumb to call Jason Tatum soft
28:34because he's not in your face barking.
28:37It's a really just bad choice of words
28:39or trying to explain a bike.
28:42I guess if the point you're trying to make
28:44is like the physicality difference,
28:46but they're just like it's like a lag,
28:48not great vocabulary there from from Brandon Jennings.
28:51I mean, if you're putting them up
28:53against Bill Russell and Larry Bird,
28:55who knows?
28:57What do you think the cutoff was
28:59for a Boston Celtics superstar?
29:02Is Paul Pierce a superstar?
29:05I don't know.
29:07Because then it's like a lot of respect
29:09if you're putting Tatum in the Bird-Russell.
29:11That's what I'm saying here.
29:13That's what I'm saying here.
29:15Soft is a Boston Celtics superstar.
29:17It's a small group of players.
29:18I don't know exactly how large it is.
29:20I don't know how he defines superstar,
29:22but you know how dumb it is
29:24because he went back at Brandon Jennings
29:26on Instagram and then Jennings
29:28in the comment section was like,
29:30that's the energy I wanted from you.
29:32You don't want him to just play winning basketball.
29:35You don't want him to just possession
29:37after possession do the right thing.
29:39You want him to be petty on Instagram.
29:41You don't want him to guard fives
29:43and rebound as well as any wing
29:45and guide one of the best offenses ever.
29:48You don't care about that,
29:51but he'll go back at you on Instagram
29:53and that's the shit that you judge your players on.
29:55Like, did you think Nick Young
29:58was a tough basketball player?
30:00Your podcast co-host?
30:02Because he sure as hell wasn't.
30:04Hell no, he wasn't.
30:06Hell no.
30:08That's a soft dude.
30:10That's a soft dude.
30:12A dude who will shoot terrible shots
30:14who won't play defense.
30:16That's a soft dude.
30:18That's a soft dude.
30:20Yeah, he scored 55 points once though.
30:22So that's his whole career.
30:24I got one more shit Joe says.
30:28Maybe this was only amusing to me,
30:31but Bobby Manning in Oklahoma City
30:33asked him about the Celtics
30:36having a better record
30:38when Jason Tatum has a higher usage rate.
30:40And Joe just was like,
30:42no, usage rate's a bad stat.
30:44Dumb stat, bad question.
30:45And it just really, it really amused me.
30:48Well, he also asked, he put him on the spot
30:50and he asked him the formula for usage rate.
30:52Oh, did he, did Bobby get it?
30:54Bobby sort of got it.
30:56He was, he was, he was on the right path.
30:59And yeah, Joe, after that,
31:05he said something to a group of us
31:08and I was like, you put him on the spot.
31:11I was like, he handled that okay.
31:12He's like, yeah.
31:14He's like, he did a pretty good job.
31:16So salute to Bobby Manning.
31:18I'm putting you on the spot.
31:20What's the formula?
31:22It's a calculation of the percentage
31:27of possessions that end in a turnover
31:30or a basket, I believe, or assist.
31:35Yeah, but there's different percentages
31:37like for free throws and assists
31:39and made field goals.
31:40To know that off the spot,
31:42you'd have to be a real nerd analytics person.
31:46And so kudos to Bobby for,
31:48for figuring that out.
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31:52you think you're a statistics person,
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32:32I would just do Jason Tatum over
32:34on rebounds because I feel like
32:36he's just been getting double digit
32:38left and right.
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32:54Run your game.
32:56Jay, it's time for Moment of the Week.
33:01Now, it's been a while
33:03since we've done Moment of the Week.
33:05So I'm going to put it to
33:06Moment of the Year?
33:08Moment of the...
33:10Which year are we talking about?
33:12The last calendar year?
33:14This calendar year?
33:16This season?
33:18I needed that better defined.
33:202025.
33:21The past four games.
33:23The road trip.
33:25What was the moment of the road trip?
33:27The moment of the road trip.
33:29Honorable mention has to be
33:31DeAndre Jordan trying to dunk on
33:33Christoph Schwarzenegger because
33:34that was an insane attempt
33:37by DeAndre Jordan in the year 2025.
33:39Sometimes you just gotta see
33:41if your body still has it.
33:43It does not.
33:45But he almost got up there.
33:47He almost got up there.
33:49Definitely nothing from the
33:51second half of the Thunder game.
33:53That might be the moment
33:55as the second half.
33:57Maybe not a positive moment,
33:59but the thing that stands out the most
34:01is how bad that second half was
34:02in terms of offense.
34:04It was jarring.
34:06It really was jarring.
34:08They just could not score,
34:10turn the ball over constantly.
34:12Oklahoma City,
34:14their defense is just...
34:16They've lapped the field
34:18in defensive efficiency.
34:20They do an amazing job
34:22at forcing turnovers.
34:24And that's like...
34:26I don't know if you can trust them
34:28to carry that over completely
34:29in the playoffs.
34:30Because when you're playing
34:31the best offenses all the time,
34:33it's just really hard
34:34to turn people over
34:35to get a transition.
34:36That's one reason why
34:37they might not be quite as good
34:39a playoff team as they have been
34:40like a regular season juggernaut.
34:42But that half,
34:44I mean, nobody's made
34:45the Celtics offense look like that
34:46in a long time.
34:47It was bad.
34:49It was just
34:51bad spacing,
34:52but just like the physicality
34:53of it all.
34:54And they foul a lot.
34:55And it feels like however much
34:57the refs let them get away
34:58with like all that
34:59physical contact,
35:00the Celtics were definitely...
35:01They definitely missed some shots,
35:02but they definitely made some
35:03like bad...
35:04Which is why J.C. Tatum
35:05was too soft?
35:07I personally wouldn't say that.
35:09I'm not going to use my platform
35:11to advance that,
35:12because then what if he posted
35:13an Instagram comment about me?
35:14That would actually
35:15kind of make my day,
35:16but I don't think...
35:17That would make your life.
35:18Not just your day,
35:19your life.
35:20You would be glowing
35:22if he made an Instagram comment.
35:23Not if he made one about me
35:25because of negative stuff
35:26I said about him.
35:27I think I'd feel
35:28pretty embarrassed about that.
35:30No.
35:31I'm supposed to be
35:32a professional Celtics fan.
35:33If I was a Celtics fan,
35:34I'd become public enemy number two
35:36after Brandon Jennings
35:37in the Jason Tatum verse.
35:39I don't think that's good for us.
35:40You would just be thrilled.
35:41Thrilled that he referenced you.
35:44Let's be honest.
35:45Yeah, that'd be pretty cool.
35:46If Jason Tatum was listening
35:47to your takes,
35:49you'd be...
35:51Who says he isn't?
35:52Who says he isn't?
35:53I mean, he should be.
35:55We got members of the coaching staff
35:56subscribed here,
35:57so they could be playing
35:58in the locker room.
35:59Who knows?
36:01Yeah.
36:02They should be.
36:04I got a question for you
36:05and we can finish out
36:06the pot on this.
36:08Well, we still haven't finished
36:09moment of the week.
36:10Oh, I thought we went with
36:11moment of the week.
36:12The entire bad second half.
36:14That's going to be
36:15the moment of the week.
36:16That's the moment
36:17that stands out to me.
36:18Chris Tapps getting kicked
36:19in the nuts was pretty funny.
36:21Derek White's bank shot
36:22against the Timberwolves.
36:23That was a good moment.
36:24Definitely a good moment.
36:26Anthony Edwards
36:27losing his scruples
36:29in his post-game press conference
36:30after the Celtics game?
36:33Scruples was not a word
36:34I was expecting him to say,
36:35but he lost his scruples.
36:36His scruples were nowhere
36:37to be found after that.
36:39That's a King family thing.
36:42Losing your scruples?
36:44How often...
36:45I think my cousin started that.
36:49He used to say
36:50whenever someone lost their shit,
36:52it'd be losing their scruples.
36:53When's the last time
36:54you lost your scruples?
36:58I mean,
37:00probably in a basketball game.
37:02I don't know when
37:03the last time it really was,
37:04but it had to be
37:05on the basketball court.
37:06That's kind of the only time
37:07I lose my scruples these days.
37:10Scruples,
37:11I just had to look it up,
37:12is a feeling of doubt
37:13or hesitation with regards
37:14to the morality or propriety
37:15of a course of action.
37:18It is also
37:19a unit of responsibility
37:21It is also
37:22a unit of weight
37:23equal to 20 grains
37:24used by hypothecaries historically.
37:27So,
37:28we learned something today.
37:29What's the moment of the week, Jay?
37:32Declare one moment of the week.
37:36I mean,
37:37we got to go to the second half
37:38against the Thunder.
37:39I think you were right.
37:41Because that's
37:42what's going to stick with you.
37:44You know,
37:45the other games,
37:46good wins.
37:48The Rockets win,
37:49I thought,
37:50it was an amazing win
37:51because that was a tough,
37:52tough back-to-back
37:53and they just kicked their ass
37:54with physical defense.
37:57But that second half, man,
37:59that's like the first time
38:01you think about doubts,
38:03right?
38:05Like,
38:06you're the fan here.
38:08Were you in your head
38:09where you're like,
38:10you know what,
38:11I haven't worried about
38:12any of the slippage
38:13over the last month,
38:14but that half
38:15against that defense?
38:18Did you start to have doubts?
38:21I didn't have doubts.
38:23Maybe I had doubts.
38:25I think I heard Coley say this
38:26on three times a chart,
38:28but it's like,
38:29last year it was like,
38:31no one's beating the Boston Celtics.
38:33This year,
38:34and this kind of goes to my question,
38:37there are two teams
38:38that are having
38:40historically good seasons this year
38:42in the Cavs and Thunder,
38:44and
38:45I still think
38:46I would
38:48pick the Celtics
38:49beating them
38:50in a
38:51playoff series.
38:52Chris Tapps-Morzingas,
38:53it definitely has to be there.
38:55I don't think it's the type of thing
38:56where they can coast in the playoffs
38:57without Chris Tapps-Morzingas.
38:59But it's the type,
39:00like they're playing such
39:01good basketball
39:02in the regular season
39:04that you like,
39:05wouldn't be surprised
39:06in a playoff series loss
39:08to the Cavs
39:09or Thunder at this point.
39:11I would be surprised
39:12if they lost to the Knicks.
39:13I'd be surprised
39:14if they lost to anyone else
39:15at least.
39:16I would be surprised,
39:17frankly,
39:18if they lost to any other team.
39:19Maybe the Nuggets
39:20still have a chance
39:21just because I fear
39:22Jokic
39:23and
39:25Nuggets beat them
39:26twice last year.
39:28But that goes to my question,
39:29it's like,
39:30okay,
39:31so the
39:32bad half against
39:33the
39:34Thunder
39:35really kind of does stick out.
39:37The Cavs are having
39:38a phenomenal year.
39:40They're what,
39:41six games up on the Celtics
39:42right now?
39:44They play the Thunder
39:45again in Boston
39:46I think in March.
39:47I'm not sure
39:48if they play the Cavs again.
39:50But knowing that
39:51they have these two teams
39:52out there,
39:53like they were lapping
39:54the field last year
39:55and just were like
39:56far and away
39:57the best team.
39:58Knowing that there are
39:59these teams out there
40:00that are going to make it
40:01a lot more competitive,
40:03what are you looking for
40:04from the Celtics
40:05to like,
40:06do they need to show anything?
40:07Are there certain
40:08championship habits?
40:10Because I remember last year
40:11they lost two games
40:12to the Hawks
40:13down the stretch.
40:14Like,
40:15that didn't really mean anything.
40:16I mentioned the two Nuggets
40:17losses.
40:18These regular season games
40:19don't necessarily matter
40:20as much for that
40:21long-term
40:23potential.
40:24But I'm just curious
40:25if you think it changes
40:26the Celtics necessarily
40:27approach,
40:28their intensity,
40:29their focus on,
40:30I mean,
40:31we're not even halfway
40:32through the season yet,
40:33but it's clear
40:34that there's these two
40:35juggernauts
40:36waiting,
40:37one waiting for them
40:38in the East
40:39and one potentially waiting
40:40for them in the West.
40:41Do I need to see anything
40:42from them?
40:43Because
40:45we've seen their best basketball
40:47and we know that
40:48if they reach that level
40:50during the playoffs,
40:52they'll be insanely hard to beat.
40:54We haven't seen them
40:55fully healthy
40:56unless we haven't seen them
40:57play it this year.
40:59I think you just want to see
41:00their starting lineup,
41:02especially,
41:03and their main guys
41:04with Chris Sapps available,
41:06just start to
41:07re-figure things out.
41:08You do need to see something.
41:09It's been clunky.
41:10No,
41:11I think they'll be okay.
41:12I don't think,
41:14I have no doubts that
41:15at some point
41:16over the next four months,
41:17they'll remember
41:18how to play basketball
41:19with a lineup
41:21that was one of the best
41:22in the league last season
41:25and that was
41:26pivotal to them
41:27whenever it was available
41:29during the playoffs.
41:31I'm not going to forget
41:32Chris Sapps' game one
41:34against Dallas
41:35after he was out
41:36for a month
41:37and then he absolutely
41:38just decimated them.
41:41I'm not going to forget that.
41:44And I think
41:45something Joe Mazzulla
41:46said recently
41:47was really smart.
41:48He said basically like,
41:50there's no
41:51blueprint for what
41:52a championship looks like.
41:54Like last year,
41:55obviously,
41:56things went easily for them.
41:58They never lost
41:59more than two in a row.
42:01They only lost three games
42:02in the playoffs.
42:04They were pretty healthy
42:05throughout the season.
42:06Pretty healthy
42:07throughout most of the season
42:08with the exception of Chris Sapps,
42:09particularly Chris Sapps
42:10in the playoffs.
42:12But it doesn't always
42:13look that way.
42:14Like sometimes you do have
42:15lulls in the regular season.
42:17Sometimes you have a month
42:18where you just don't have it.
42:19Sometimes you have a month
42:20where,
42:22you know,
42:23the starting lineup
42:24that used to be so good
42:25is just figuring out
42:26how to play together
42:27because Chris Sapps
42:28was out for a long time
42:29and has been in and out
42:30of the lineup since.
42:31Everybody else kind of
42:32had a little bit more room
42:33to operate
42:34without him.
42:36And now they're just all
42:37kind of taking a step back
42:38and learning how to
42:40adapt to Chris Sapps
42:41being back.
42:43So,
42:44I think Joe was right.
42:46And that's why I say
42:48there's nothing I have to see
42:49from this team.
42:51That being said,
42:52they could lose.
42:54And some of the things,
42:55sometimes some of the things
42:56that pop up in the regular season
42:57that you're not concerned about
43:00are actually concerns.
43:02And maybe you're right.
43:04Maybe there is room
43:05for that lineup
43:06not being quite as good
43:07as it was last year.
43:10But,
43:11I think.
43:12It has a negative net rating.
43:14Negative 11.
43:15Yeah.
43:16And it was a positive 11
43:17last year.
43:18And so,
43:19I have faith in their ability
43:20to get that back.
43:22But I would have a lot more faith
43:24if I saw some examples
43:25of that this season.
43:27And I understand a lot of that.
43:28It's like a very small sample size
43:30because they just haven't had
43:31that starting lineup
43:33fully healthy
43:34to start this year.
43:35But,
43:36I think in terms of
43:38familiarity and building habits
43:40and being able to rely on that,
43:42you would just like to see
43:43a stretch of basketball
43:44where they rip off
43:468 of 10 or something.
43:48And that starting lineup
43:50plays incredibly well together.
43:53They've been able to kind of
43:54survive this because
43:56Peyton Pritchard has stepped up
43:57and other guys have stepped up
43:59in the moments.
44:00And they're still an extremely
44:01talented basketball team.
44:03But I think that's what
44:04I'm looking for.
44:05And obviously,
44:06there's still going to be injuries.
44:07And it might even be beneficial
44:09to be in the playoffs
44:10and
44:14have comfortability
44:15playing with a bunch of different
44:16lineups and a bunch of different guys
44:17because you never know
44:18what injuries are going to happen.
44:19But if I'm looking for one thing,
44:21that starting lineup
44:22shouldn't have a minus 11 net rating.
44:24And I think
44:25you want that.
44:27If I'm just like,
44:28you want that starting,
44:30like that killer lineup
44:31to be able to come in
44:32and just play their best basketball.
44:33Because I don't feel like we've seen
44:35the Celtics play their best basketball
44:39once this season.
44:40I can't point to one game
44:41was like,
44:42that's was absolutely perfect.
44:45Yeah, they kicked the shit out of the Pacers.
44:47They've had some big wins,
44:48but it's never been like
44:50with their full competitive guys.
44:53I take it back.
44:54I stand corrected.
44:55Knicks on opening night
44:56went pretty fucking crazy.
44:58That was their best basketball.
45:00But
45:02since then
45:03it feels like it's been
45:04a lot of ups and downs.
45:05And so I just like to get back to
45:09absolutely destroyed some teams.
45:10It doesn't need to happen every night,
45:12but
45:13I think that's just with the
45:16from the dumb fan perspective,
45:17which this is.
45:19I think it would be nice
45:20knowing that there's these big challenges
45:22out there in Cleveland
45:24in Oklahoma City.
45:25I would just like to see
45:26the dominant kind of Boston Celtics return,
45:28at least for some stretch here
45:29this regular season.
45:31Yeah, you probably want to see it
45:33at least for a little while.
45:35Like
45:38it's funny that we're like sitting here
45:41like, oh, they haven't really played that well.
45:43They haven't played up to their standard.
45:45They're having a historic season themselves.
45:47Yeah. And then you look at it.
45:48It's like actually like these dudes
45:51have an insane net rating.
45:5360 win pace.
45:55Yeah. Like one of the best net ratings in history.
45:5710.4 net rating.
46:00They're sixth in defense now,
46:02which is climbing.
46:03They're second in offense.
46:04It's like
46:07yeah, but they've got the profile of a champion
46:09or high level championship contender.
46:12But there's two teams out there
46:13are just as good.
46:14So it is.
46:15And that's the difference.
46:16I think it's more.
46:18It's more that the league is different now
46:21than that the Celtics are different.
46:24Like you're not going to go
46:26and play like a weak ass Cleveland team in round
46:30and then
46:31or that was round two.
46:32You're not going to play Jimmy Butler,
46:33this Miami team in round one,
46:35then a weak ass Cleveland team in round two,
46:37then a
46:39Indiana team with no defense to speak of
46:41in the conference finals.
46:44And all those teams have injuries
46:46and then Dallas,
46:47which is a flawed, flawed team in the finals.
46:52So you're not going to have that path again.
46:54It's not going to be that easy.
46:55And the rest of the league is like raised its game.
46:57And so it's like iron sharpens iron.
46:59You kind of want to see the Celtics raise their game too.
47:02It may be an unfair ask
47:03because they're like you said,
47:04they're playing pretty phenomenal basketball right now.
47:07But after thoroughly being like a step above
47:11every single other team in the NBA last year,
47:14well, the other teams kind of challenged them.
47:16You kind of want to see the Celtics rise to that challenge.
47:19If that happens,
47:21we will have it covered for you right here on Still Potable.
47:24We are here for you every single day of the week,
47:26Monday through Friday.
47:28So go to patreon.com slash still potable.
47:31Subscribe today.
47:33Jay King is pointing at you.
47:34If you're watching the video,
47:35he's talking to you.
47:37Patreon.com slash still potable.
47:39We appreciate you guys tuning in.
47:41We'll be back next week talking about the Kings game,
47:45the Pelicans game and everything else going on
47:47in the world of Celtics basketball.
47:49Thank you guys for listening to this episode of
47:51Still Potable!