The Milwaukee Bucks win the second annual Emirates NBA Cup with a victory over Oklahoma City, continuing Milwaukee's surprising surge after a 2-8 start to the season. What does their run mean to the defending NBA champion Celtics?
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00:00Hello folks, and welcome to another edition of the Big 3 NBA Podcast.
00:29I am Ashron Blakely, joined by Gary Washburn, and we have, I guess, is it load management?
00:37Is it late game scratch?
00:39How do we describe not having quantity, Gary?
00:41How would you describe it?
00:43Yeah, late game scratch, back spasms, or knee soreness, however you want to paraphrase it.
00:51Yes.
00:52It's not a non-COVID illness or COVID illness.
00:54We're not sick.
00:56She's not sick.
00:57She just ain't in the building today.
01:01But me and G Money, we're here to hold it down, and before we get into this episode
01:05of the Big 3 NBA Podcast, it's brought to you by PrizePix, exclusive daily fantasy partner
01:08of CLNS Media Network.
01:11Sign up now at prizepix.com slash CLNS, and use code CLNS and win up to 1,000 times your
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01:22Another special shout out to our good friends at Game Time, which takes the guesswork out
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01:34first purchase.
01:35Terms apply.
01:36So, Gary, it's been kind of a slow week for you and me, and pretty much everyone in the
01:42association, all except for a handful of teams.
01:46We just finished the Emirates NBA Cup, Milwaukee with the beat down on OKC, 97-81, Giannis
01:54had a triple-double with 26-19 boards, 10 assists, and that Milwaukee defense.
02:01We ain't seen a defense like that in Milwaukee in a while, holding a really high-scoring
02:05OKC team to just about 33, 34% shooting.
02:09SGA had 21 points, but he did it on 24 shots, not the most efficient game he's had.
02:15So from your take, Gary, I mean, what does this mean to the NBA pecking order?
02:20Because it seems like the Milwaukee Bucks, they're trending in the right direction after
02:25just an absolute horrendous start to the season.
02:28Yeah, I think that they're starting to play better.
02:32They're getting contributions from the guys that had not been giving them much early in
02:37the season.
02:38Brooke Lopez, Gary Trent Jr., Bobby Portis, Doc has figured out how to use Andre Jackson
02:45as mostly a defender, where he can contribute on that side of the ball, but he doesn't need
02:51to score.
02:52So you put lineups around him that ensures that he doesn't need to shoot the ball a lot.
02:58And so they're playing together.
03:00And the question is, when you ask, and remember, Sherrod, they won last night without Chris
03:06Middleton.
03:07He was sick.
03:08So they won essentially without their top, their third best player.
03:15So they're a team to watch.
03:16Obviously, the team, they're an older team.
03:19They're going to need some real, real contributions.
03:22The guy, the kid, AJ Green, is a great shooter.
03:26He's coming through and playing well for them.
03:28They're getting contributions from those young guys, and that's important.
03:31And that's what they need, because Brooke Lopez, 36, 37, Middleton's often injured.
03:37Bobby Portis is on the back nine of his career.
03:41Dame is 35, about to be 35.
03:43So you need help from the young guys, and that's what they're getting.
03:48And Doc, as much as Doc gets criticism, because he didn't get it done in LA, and he got fired
03:56in Philadelphia.
03:57And I know it's been a while since Doc's been to the mountaintop, obviously 16 years.
04:02But the man can still coach, right?
04:04He can still put together lineups, he can still motivate, he can still put together
04:09a team that's going to compete.
04:12This is in Philadelphia, where he's dealing with Embiid, today I want to play, tomorrow
04:18I don't want to play.
04:19Damn, Gary, that's a pretty good Joel Embiid impersonation, well done.
04:26He's dealing with James Harden, well, if I ain't scoring 30 with 15, 20 assists, and
04:32I'm not getting the ball a lot, nah, I'm going to go to the club then.
04:36So he's not dealing with those guys.
04:38He's dealing with Giannis, who is one of the harder workers in the league.
04:43We don't ever hear Giannis taking time off, he'll get hurt every now and then, but he's
04:47a baller.
04:48And then Dane, Dane still has game left, Dane might not be the Dane he was six, seven years
04:52ago, when he was in his prime, prime.
04:54But Dane can still drop 30, hit the threes, run the show.
04:59And then you got Middleton and other guys helping.
05:01So he is putting together a team that might not be as healthy and rugged and ready to
05:09go in May, because of that long season.
05:13But in December, they're turning into a quality team.
05:17And I mean, besides Cleveland and Boston, they could be the third best team.
05:23I still don't trust the Knicks, the Knicks lost at home to Atlanta.
05:27The Knicks are, we can talk about the Knicks and what they're doing, but the Knicks, they're
05:3316 and 10, they ain't doing much for me.
05:38They're as bad as Milwaukee has been.
05:41Milwaukee's a game and a half back, 14 and 11.
05:46So to me, the Bucs are upcoming now, the Bucs are still four and seven on the road.
05:53They've got a difficult game with Cleveland on Friday.
05:56So we'll see how that goes.
05:58But for now, the Bucs are nothing to mess with.
06:01And remember, they don't play the Celtics again this season.
06:04So the Celtics would not see them until potentially the first, second, or even the conference
06:09finals.
06:10Yeah.
06:11And that's what I was going to ask you about.
06:12Because I mean, the Celtics, whether, even if the Celtics didn't have the best record
06:16in the NBA, they would still be the team that everyone is focused on.
06:21What do you think that Milwaukee has done to close that gap, if at all?
06:25What are they doing better now that we didn't see in those first 10 games?
06:28Well, shots are going down, Sherrod.
06:29First of all, Brooke Lopez hitting threes, Gary Tripp.
06:33When the Celtics saw them, those guys are not playing well.
06:37Brooke Lopez was off to a horrible start, Bobby Portis was off to a horrible start,
06:41Gary Tripp.
06:42All three of those guys got off to horrible starts.
06:44And Dame did not get off to a great start.
06:46So now all those guys are starting to knock down shots.
06:49So they're hitting threes.
06:51And then they're getting contributions.
06:54A.J. Green's a guy who's a real, he's kind of the Bucs version of Sam Houser.
06:59And that guy is a shooter.
07:01You look at him, you say shooter.
07:04When you see him get the ball, he can shoot with contests.
07:08He can shoot coming up the floor off the dribble.
07:14He can shoot off the break.
07:15Whatever you ask him to do, he can shoot.
07:17He's a shooter.
07:18Gary Tripp Jr. has always been a player who you see like a guy who could maybe be a Frames
07:27All-Star over the years, but something just ain't quite there.
07:32But he's starting to play like that guy who can defend, hit the three, hit the mid-range.
07:38You see it.
07:39You've seen it over the years.
07:40He's had some real stretches in his career where you're like, man, that guy's gonna be
07:46a guy who could maybe make an All-Star team.
07:49I'm not talking about being a perennial All-Star.
07:50I'm talking about one year, have a career year.
07:53And it just doesn't happen.
07:54And literally, as you saw, Sherrod, he was out here this summer looking for work.
07:59He signed a minimum deal.
08:00He thought he was gonna get 15, 20 million a year, and he got minimum to play for the
08:04Bucs to kind of a show it deal.
08:07So obviously, this is, unless Milwaukee brings him back and they got cap space or something,
08:12he's probably his only year in Milwaukee.
08:16But he's showing that he's a capable player.
08:18So I think, Sherrod, the young guys have stepped up and played well.
08:23But the thing you gotta worry about with Milwaukee is the depth.
08:27They don't have a deep bench.
08:29You got guys like Torian Prince who are okay, but you don't have that depth.
08:34You don't have that youth.
08:36So you wonder whether down the road they're gonna wear out.
08:40But I think from now, from the Milwaukee team that we saw that came in a couple of weeks
08:45ago that didn't play all that well, but Chris Middleton's first game back, I thought, no,
08:52they're getting better from the time.
08:54And they've pushed the Celtics in all those three meetings.
08:57They're all competitive games.
08:59They were up 15, 20 points in the first half of the game at Milwaukee.
09:05But I think that they're just getting help from guys who were supposed to help, but at
09:10the beginning did not help.
09:12Yeah, one of the things that Giannis was talking about after they won the Emirates Cup the
09:17other night was how after that last loss to the Celtics, him and Dame really just basically
09:22said, we gotta dig us out of this malaise we're in, and they've been a much better team
09:28since then.
09:29When you look at where they are, and you touched on this a little bit earlier, Cleveland and
09:34Boston pretty much separate themselves from the rest of the Eastern Conference, I think
09:37it's fair to say at this point.
09:39When you've got this cluster of teams that are kind of jockeying for who's next, and
09:46Milwaukee is among those teams, where do you see the pecking order, maybe the next three
09:49or four teams after Boston and Cleveland?
09:51Because again, Boston and Cleveland, they in their own building.
09:54They got their own, they paying rent, and they in a penthouse suite.
10:00Everyone else is trying to get them a studio apartment.
10:02They got the penthouse choice.
10:04Who is next?
10:05Who's that next for?
10:07Okay, I'm gonna go with the Bucs, obviously.
10:11I'm gonna go with the Atlanta Hawks.
10:13The Atlanta Hawks now, nothing to play with.
10:17They have gotten it together.
10:19They didn't play well in that semifinal game against the Bucs, but they're a team that's
10:24beating the Celtics.
10:25They beat the Cavaliers twice, and they beat the Knicks, and they won at Milwaukee.
10:31So they can beat, they're capable of beating anybody, right?
10:35So I'm gonna say the Bucs, I'm gonna say the Knicks, I'm gonna say the Hawks, and I'm
10:40gonna give those Orlando Magic.
10:42When they get healthy, now it could be a while, Banchero, I heard he's not close to coming
10:47back.
10:48We'll see the team that they field in a couple of days when the Celtics go down there and
10:53play a couple of days before Christmas, and then Wagner is also out.
10:56But when they get completely healthy, they're gonna be a factor.
11:00The other teams, Sherrod, like I said, the Heat, I don't know.
11:07The Heat's starting to play better.
11:11You just don't know.
11:12They lost again to your Pistons, another close game to the Pistons.
11:17But the Heat, I just think, I just don't see it.
11:20I think they gotta make a deal, and then, as you saw, Sherrod, that Jimmy Butler thing
11:25is starting to start looming larger and larger as we get toward the trade deadline, I think
11:30it's February 8th or February 10th, whatever the trade deadline is.
11:34It's getting larger and larger because their team's interested in Jimmy.
11:39He's the final year of his contract.
11:40He's gotta opt out so he can be a free agent this summer.
11:44And do the Heat feel like they're gonna bring him back long term?
11:47Do you let him go after this season with nothing in return, or you try to get assets?
11:53How important is Jimmy Butler to the Miami Heat, and do the Heat feel like, but Jimmy
11:59is about his money, as we all know, and so Jimmy's not gonna sign one of them cat-friendly
12:05Al Horford deals, right?
12:06He's not gonna-
12:07He ain't that dude.
12:08No, he ain't coming back for two years, $40 million.
12:12That ain't Jimmy.
12:13Right.
12:14He not doing that, well, as long as you'll have me, no, no, no, no, no, he wants chippers.
12:20So he wants chippers.
12:22So this will be a fascinating thing.
12:24So I'm gonna say Atlanta, I'm gonna say New York, I'm gonna say New York, Orlando, and
12:32who was the other team?
12:35Four teams.
12:36New York, Orlando, Milwaukee, and Atlanta.
12:38Those are the four teams.
12:39Miami, can't call it.
12:42Indiana, really inconsistent, terrible road team, already 11 road losses.
12:48You can't play well away from home, you're not gonna win.
12:50You're one of the worst road records of a playoff caliber team in the league, 11 road
12:55losses.
12:56And the Bulls, eh, you know, and Sherrod, your Pistons are 10th, and with Brooklyn trading
13:07Dennis Schroeder, the Pistons have a play-in shot.
13:12Like Philadelphia is the team that can take that spot, right?
13:16Philadelphia, we don't know what's gonna happen with your friend Joel Embiid.
13:20Paul George is starting to hoop.
13:22You know, they wanted Charlotte.
13:23I thought it was a disappointing loss for Charlotte because Charlotte, it's about time
13:27Charlotte started winning some of these games against teams that are just like them.
13:31They lost again at home.
13:34I think you can throw Charlotte out of the play-in situation.
13:38I think Toronto, they're only 7-20, they're out of it.
13:42I would say they're not gonna make a run.
13:44And we all know about, Sherrod, your favorite team, the Washington Wizards, they're done.
13:49So if you're Detroit, you got a shot to make the play-in, and they can do some damage.
13:56So I'm not talking about in the play-in, I'm just talking about during the season and trying
14:00to make the play-out.
14:01So, like, I don't know about, I said Philadelphia, Embiid might not be available for the Christmas
14:08game because he's got that facial fracture.
14:10We don't know.
14:11There's still eight games under .500, and obviously if you win eight in a row, you're
14:14still at .500.
14:16So they're gonna be teetering on .500 all year, I mean, unless they go on a real impressive
14:21streak.
14:22So the rest of the East, I got nothing for it.
14:26The Celtics should cruise against these teams.
14:30But I think Milwaukee, Atlanta, New York, and Orlando are behind Cleveland, are those
14:35teams that should fill in those six spots, along with the Celtics and Cavs.
14:40Yeah, to me, the East is, really, there's three levels.
14:45There's, like, the folks who, basically, they got their application to get in the building
14:50and it's still being reviewed.
14:51Folks, they hope that credit score will get them in, I don't know if it's going to get
14:57them in.
14:58And then you got teams that are a notch below the Celtics and Cleveland, and again, my pecking
15:03order right now, I think Milwaukee is clearly the third best team in the Eastern Conference
15:07right now.
15:08When you look at them, not only their ability to win, but how they're doing it.
15:11They're getting after defensively, Giannis is playing at an MVP level, Dame looks more
15:16like the Dame of old than just an old Dame.
15:20And then you start looking at just the job that Doc is doing, and we can talk a bit more
15:23about him later, but Doc is doing a lot of those little things that people don't recognize
15:28that he does.
15:29For example, when you look at them in huddles now, you see some of the young guys who are
15:33playing roles that they're not used to playing near the huddles, even though they're not
15:37going to game.
15:38Very similar to what we saw in Boston with Avery Bradley.
15:41Avery Bradley was always in a huddle, even when he wasn't playing.
15:44You start to see some of that stuff play out in Milwaukee now, and Doc has a lot to do
15:48with that type of stuff and just the impact that that makes.
15:51So to me, Milwaukee is clearly the third best team.
15:53Fourth best team, I think is the Hawks.
15:55And to be honest with you, Gary, I would not be shocked if that flips.
15:59And I say that only because Trey Young has figured out the cheat code for how to be really
16:04good and not be just a bucket getter.
16:08We know he can do that, but he's not only getting dimes, he's getting dimes that matter.
16:13His team's actually winning games because there's a lot of guys that have what I call
16:18those soft drink stat lines, where they'll have nine assists and they'll get five in
16:23them after this team is down by 25 and the line looks better than the actual play was.
16:28Trey Young ain't doing that as much anymore.
16:30He's actually got guys around him that actually know how to play off of him and are allowing
16:34him to not only still get his points, but also allow this team to be more successful.
16:39So I look at them as that number four team.
16:42And number five, even though they don't have their big guy in Vanchero, I still look at
16:47Orlando ahead of New York right now, because Orlando is finding ways to win with a less
16:52than complete squad.
16:55And the idea that they're going to be even better when they have their full complement
16:59of players is very real.
17:01And frankly, it should be expected.
17:03And New York to me has been, other than Philadelphia, New York has been probably the biggest disappointment
17:07for me this year.
17:08I expected them to be a little bit more competitive out the gate, especially considering that
17:14they haven't had significant major injuries and they added an all-star in Carl Anthony
17:20Towns.
17:21But I think what we're also missing from that team is the impact that DiVincenzo made on
17:25that squad.
17:26And the fact that Mikael Bridges has been all right, but considering what they gave
17:30up to get him, he's been a bit of a disappointment too.
17:33So that to me is the top six.
17:35And after that, you got teams that are just hoping to get a studio apartment in the spot.
17:39They're not trying to be in a penthouse with Boston.
17:41They're not trying to live in a nice little two, three bedroom like New York and all the
17:46others.
17:47They just hope they can get a studio in the playoffs.
17:48Just get a taste of it.
17:49I like Detroit, even though they still, I think, have some clear flaws.
17:54They play hard and they have the right kind of coach to get them back into the postseason.
18:00But to me, they have a coach who is a great, what I like to call starter kit coach.
18:06He can get you basically in the mix to just be in the playoffs and you're not going to
18:12do much more beyond that.
18:13I just don't think he, I don't think that's just who he is.
18:17So the Pistons, I think, are going to be a team.
18:19Indiana has been a big disappointment.
18:21As you pointed out, I mean, you would have thought that that team was going to be top
18:25three, top four, just the way they seem to get better and better last season.
18:29But the fact that they brought pretty much everyone from the band back together, they've
18:33been a major disappointment.
18:34And after that, I ain't paying attention to nobody.
18:37Miami, to me, Miami is just like right on the fringe of just taking a absolutely catastrophic
18:43drop.
18:44One, because of their play.
18:45Two, because of Jimmy Butler.
18:47Jimmy Butler is that really good player that has an expiration date with every franchise.
18:52And I think we're starting to see him come and creep up on that.
18:55It seems everywhere he's been.
18:57There was a point in time where it's like, maybe we should just be friends.
19:01The breakup.
19:02And he's kind of in that breakup zone right now, where maybe we should just part ways.
19:06And I think Miami, between now and a trade deal, and I think they're going to embrace
19:10that and just move on from him.
19:11Because as you pointed out, Gary, that brother is about that paper.
19:16And I just don't see them willing to come up off the kind of money that Jimmy's going
19:20to be looking for right now.
19:22And so it might be in his best interest to move on to another spot.
19:26A team that could use a player that with his type of skills, his talent, and obviously
19:30his leadership skills.
19:31But do it with the understanding that this is only going to be a short-time thing.
19:36This is only going to be like a three, maybe four-year process.
19:39Probably more like three at best.
19:41And so that'll work for him.
19:43But I'm real curious, like you are, to see what happens with Jimmy.
19:51Because I do think that his situation is going to really, it's going to dictate in
19:55many ways the way the whole trade deadline.
19:57I think that might be the first significant chip to be moved between now and the trade
20:00deadline.
20:01Yeah.
20:02I mean, as I said, I think Miami, I think he would like to stay in Miami.
20:07But I think Miami is obviously an organization that feels like, listen, like Spoh, we'll
20:13be honest.
20:14Is this a team that can make a run for the NBA finals?
20:19He worked miracles a couple of years ago with that team that beat the Celtics.
20:22And Caleb Martin was playing like Kobe.
20:26And Gabe Vincent was balling.
20:29And they all got paid too.
20:30Yeah.
20:31And those guys are gone.
20:32I mean, those guys are gone.
20:34Tyler Hero is the leading scorer.
20:36He's the A guy now.
20:37Bam Adebayo having a solid year, but not a spectacular year.
20:43And he just can't, you know, held his, Terry Rozier has kind of turned into a, just a,
20:47just a guy there.
20:48I thought he would be a real big addition for them.
20:52A guy who's got, you know, we all know how tough he is and he loves to hoop.
20:56And I said, he's averaging, I mean, 11 points a game, 11.7 points a game.
21:02You know, he's not having a great season, you know, 39% from the field, 35 from three.
21:08There's not a lot of, Jaime Jaquez has really been terrible.
21:15I mean, that's terrible, 8.8 points, shooting 42% of the field, 25 from three.
21:22Like, like he is not taking that next step.
21:25I think people expected him to take that next step, next major step and be a guy who could
21:30be maybe the second or third leading scorer on his team.
21:33No, he is the sixth leading scorer on this team.
21:36And Duncan Robinson behind Rozier out of Bayou, Butler and Hero.
21:40So Miami, they play hard.
21:44They're well coached, but you just got to think like, when's it time to kind of throw
21:49in the towel on this core?
21:51And another guy I thought, and then we talked about this, Sharad, that I saw him in summer
21:56league and I thought he was going to start at the center and be a real factor was Kalel
22:01Ware, who, cause we saw him against Nimi, Nimi is Kata and he dominated Kata in that
22:08game and that was his first NBA game.
22:10And I'm like, oh, this dude is going to be a difference maker for Miami.
22:14He has just not got enough, not been able to get on the court.
22:18I think that's been a definite disappointment if you're talking about players.
22:24So you're right, Sharad, like I think Miami plays hard.
22:29They got a lot of guys who are into that system, but it's just sort of like, how good
22:37can they be?
22:38And I think what Riley, Pat Riley and Spoh will do was assess this roster and go, okay,
22:45how far can we go?
22:47Is it worth keeping Jimmy or is it worth getting assets?
22:50And I know that Riley is pushing 80, he wants to see one final championship run.
22:57Who do you bring in to try to put this team over the top?
23:00Adebayo, a great player, averaging 16 and 10, not eye poppy numbers, but solid numbers,
23:07nothing that you're going to, nothing that it's going to make you do backflips.
23:12He's only shooting 44% from the field for big, that's not good.
23:17Butler's been good, but Butler hasn't always been on the floor.
23:21And then Hero is averaging the career high 24 points a game, shooting 41 from three,
23:2748 from the field.
23:28So he's had a really good season, he's all star caliber.
23:31But you look at the rest of the guys, Josh Richardson can't get on the court, never always
23:36hurt now.
23:37Kevin Love is 36 years old, Haywood Highsmith, solid player, but just mostly a defender.
23:44Nikola Jovic, always in the doghouse.
23:46So Javi Hawkins, we talked about just not having that good sophomore season.
23:52So what do you do with Miami?
23:54I don't know.
23:55Absolutely.
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25:11And here's what you do.
25:12Again, download the app today and use code CLNS to get $50 instantly after you play your
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25:19Again, that's download the app today.
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25:28PrizePix, run your game.
25:32Now, speaking of running their games, Giannis Antetokounmpo was just absolutely crushing
25:38it in that damn, you know, the Emirates NBA Cup.
25:45Now here's the thing about Giannis.
25:46I mean, this is a guy who has already won the MVP award, Gary.
25:49We know that.
25:50But where is he stacked up now?
25:52I mean, do you put him at the front of that pack or is he still kind of in that top three,
25:56top four, top five zone?
25:59I still think you got to give it to Yoke as the best player in the league.
26:02I think Giannis is moving up to number two.
26:06Lucas had an injury prone season and, you know, the Mavericks have been okay, but not
26:12great as we know.
26:14I mean, so I think Giannis is moving up and I just think, you know, he's in his prime.
26:19He's 30 years old.
26:21He is doing amazing things.
26:25And we all know he plays when he can play.
26:29He plays every game.
26:30He plays hard.
26:31You know, he's never developed that great outside jumper that people were saying, well,
26:36if he gets a J, it's over.
26:39But he's still, I mean, he's unstoppable at the rim, he rebounds.
26:43You know, he plays defense.
26:44He had a great block shot the other night on SGA near the rim.
26:50It was like, hey, man, don't even try to come over here with this stuff.
26:55Yeah, I think he's moving to that one or two role.
26:59Jokic is still the guy just averaging triple-double, just the guy who's just indispensable.
27:06You can't, you know, like Denver needs him on the floor at all times.
27:09And if you're Denver is what we're hearing is that they're trying to get him some help
27:14because the Nuggets are only 14 and 10.
27:16You know, they're just an average team right now, five and a half back in the West.
27:22You know, and Jamal Murray hasn't played very well this year.
27:26Michael Porter Jr. has never really developed into that all-star caliber player
27:30that I think people have envisioned.
27:32So I think it might be time to make a move
27:35and get him a solid, dependable number two guy for Jokic.
27:39So I think Giannis has moved his way up.
27:43And I just think this was a great spotlight for him.
27:46He is, like I said, he's an incredible player.
27:49I mean, he's a player that I think like LeBron James and like a lot of these guys,
27:54but when he calls and quits, we're going to really miss him
27:58because we have not seen a player like him before him.
28:04And we won't see a player like him since.
28:07Again, the physical freak that he is, we can talk about Wimby and all that.
28:13Wimby ain't turning to Giannis physically.
28:17Wimby might be just a bunch of guys that can still feel the stats.
28:21But, you know, Giannis, I mean, what, he's having 33 a game,
28:27almost 12 rebounds and six assists?
28:30I mean, yo, just an incredible, incredible player.
28:36So, yeah, I mean, add to that 1.6 blocks, you know, you got to love him, man.
28:45You just, I mean, you got to admire him.
28:48I know he got into it with Jalen.
28:50You know, he can be a clown at times and stuff.
28:52But, man, the way that guy plays ball, you got to love it.
28:56I tell you what, Gary, I put Giannis at the top of the list ahead of Jokic.
29:02And here's why.
29:03First of all, Giannis is a phenomenal player.
29:05He's been on this mountaintop before, and he's even better now.
29:09The thing about Giannis that I find that has really allowed a guy who is already
29:14pretty damn dominant to be even more dominant is his playmaking now.
29:19I mean, he is making some passes that I don't know if he would have even
29:24contemplated making them a year or two ago, let alone actually execute
29:28them flawlessly now.
29:30His ability to dribble drive, get into the paint and suck the defense in
29:33and know where his shooters are going to be and get them the ball in rhythm
29:38without locking in or without being predictable in his passing game,
29:42that to me is phenomenal.
29:44And his scoring is, again, at an elite level.
29:47And he's an example of what I think sometimes happens.
29:51When we look at players, we tend to focus on what they don't do well
29:54and use that as a justification for why they're not going to be great
29:58or why they're not as great as they could be.
30:00When we really should begin to understand and focus more on what do they do well
30:06and are they doing it well enough to where it stands out among others.
30:10The NBA is full of some of the most phenomenal athletes that you will find
30:14in any sport.
30:16And yet more nights than not, Giannis makes these phenomenal athletes look
30:20average or below average with his ability to beat them off the dribble,
30:23his ability to finish at the rim, and just his defense and his playmaking.
30:28And you actually see this guy from time to time on the ground diving for loose
30:33balls, making hustle plays.
30:35He's a much more complete player than Jokic.
30:38And Jokic does a lot of things.
30:40This is what I'll say about Jokic because there's some folks who feel if you say
30:44something bad about Jokic or you're not supporting him, you're hating on him.
30:48Here's my issue with Jokic.
30:49It's not the player, it's the program that he plays for.
30:52What Denver has done up to this point with Jokic should be damn near criminal.
30:57The fact that they have systematically allowed this team to get worse and worse
31:03and try to put, I mean, they create these cavernous holes in their lineup,
31:08and they try to fill them with some damn silly putty thinking that it's going
31:11to be okay.
31:12And then when stuff sinks further and further down, they're like,
31:15oh, oh, we tried.
31:18No, you haven't tried.
31:20And the fact that they're talking more and more now about trying to add
31:24like an impact player, like Zach Levine is one of the hot names out there
31:28that they may be pursuing.
31:29And Zach's a good player, and if it comes at the price of Michael Porter, Jr.,
31:33I'm not sure if that's necessarily going to make you better.
31:36You're getting, I think, a slightly older player.
31:39I believe Zach is pretty much in his prime, and Michael Porter, Jr.
31:44is, I think, 25, 26, something like that.
31:46So I'm not sure that's necessarily an upgrade,
31:49but they may not necessarily be looking for an upgrade.
31:51They may be just looking for just kind of to shake things up a little bit.
31:54But to me, Giannis is at the top of the mountaintop as far as MVP candidates
31:59because his stats are impressive.
32:02His impact at both ends of the floor is undeniable,
32:05and his team is winning at a high level.
32:07And when that's happening, to me, that's what embodies being an MVP.
32:13Before we go any further, Gary,
32:15I want to also give a shout-out to our good friends at Game Time.
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33:15What time is it? Game Time.
33:18And it's also time for us to talk about Gary's second-favorite coach
33:23because his favorite coach is Joe Mazzullo.
33:25His second-favorite coach is Doc Rich.
33:27Your boy.
33:29Doc has – and I touched on this earlier about, you know,
33:33just kind of talking about the loss to the Celtics really kind of was almost
33:37like a galvanizing moment for his team.
33:39And Jan has talked about that after they won the Cup.
33:42When you think about the improvement that we've seen in this Bucs team of late,
33:47where does Doc River stack up in terms of the credit cake that you give out
33:51for their improved play?
33:52I mean, does he get the biggest slice?
33:54Does he get the second biggest slice?
33:55Does he not get a slice at all?
33:56Where do you see Doc figuring into their success?
33:59I think 50% because, you know, he maintained that they were going to be better,
34:05that things were going to turn around.
34:08But he had the confidence in this team to say, hey, guys, like listen,
34:13keep doing what you're doing.
34:15Do not get discouraged about what's happening with us, the losses.
34:20We're going to turn this thing around.
34:21They lost a couple of close games to Cleveland.
34:24You know, they had some tough situations early in the season,
34:28obviously losing three times to the Celtics in three competitive games.
34:31You know, like they were losing close.
34:34I mean, and there was a couple of games that they, you know,
34:37it looked like they weren't interested in playing.
34:39But now I just think they've kind of put it together.
34:42I remember they lost to the Celtics, but they lost a home game against Atlanta.
34:47And I just think that was one of those games they were like, okay,
34:50like we can't lose games like this anymore.
34:52We're better than the Hawks.
34:54And since then, you know, four wins in a row, you know,
34:58throughout this tournament.
35:00But they also ran off and they won at Houston at home.
35:03They beat the Bulls, the Pacers, Charlotte.
35:06They won at Miami.
35:07They beat the Wizards as everybody else does.
35:09And they beat your Pistons by 21.
35:11So the schedule has not been as difficult until Oklahoma City.
35:17And they put Oklahoma City down.
35:19They put Oklahoma City out of their misery.
35:21That was the worst.
35:22I've seen the Thunder play in a long time.
35:25And you got to credit Doc and you got to credit the Bucs
35:27for having the wherewithal to just say, okay, even though we're 2-8,
35:31we're not done, you know, since I said, since they're going 2-8,
35:35let me do my math here.
35:36They're 12-3.
35:38And, you know, you could say 13-3, but the last, you know,
35:46game of the playing tournament doesn't work.
35:50I'm sorry, the NCAA tournament doesn't work.
35:52So it doesn't count.
35:54It doesn't count.
35:55So they're still 14-11.
35:57So if I'm Milwaukee, you can get probably the number two seed in the East
36:04if you really push it.
36:05And we'll see that game on Friday against Cleveland.
36:09We'll definitely see how that turns out, how they match up with the Cavaliers.
36:14The Cavaliers are going to come off major rest.
36:16We'll see how that game turns out.
36:19But they're eight games behind Cleveland, six and a half behind the Celtics.
36:23So there's still a chance for them to get that third seed.
36:26Can they make up eight games?
36:27You know, anything can happen.
36:29It's only December.
36:30But I think if you're the Bucs, you're saying to yourself,
36:33we just want to get home court advantage in the first round.
36:35We'll let our veteran guys handle it from the rest.
36:38We don't need home court advantage in the semifinals or the finals.
36:41You just try to get that top four seed.
36:43So I think the doctor deserves a good slice of the pie just for kind of sticking
36:48with it, right, sticking with it, not letting these guys give up on themselves,
36:52you know, making some lineup changes, playing A.J. Green more,
36:56playing Andre Jackson in a certain role,
36:58and not giving up on guys like Brooke Lopez and Bobby Portis
37:02who got off to really, really slow starts.
37:05Yeah, yeah, Doc.
37:06I mean, Doc's done a good job.
37:07There's no doubt about that.
37:08And the thing that I find myself looking at, and you kind of alluded to it,
37:14but the schedule has worked out in their favor.
37:17They're playing teams that they should be able to beat.
37:19And I give them credit.
37:20When you start off two and eight,
37:22there's a tendency to have some doubts creep in about how good you are.
37:26But they haven't allowed that to be a factor.
37:28And they've done what they were supposed to.
37:30They've beaten the teams that they were supposed to.
37:32But OKC was really the one team that they had faced that there was some doubt
37:39as to whether they could beat them.
37:40And they not only beat them, they beat them like a drum.
37:43I mean, it was a close game in the first half,
37:45but they just blew that thing wide open in the second.
37:47And that, to me, shows them starting to realize
37:51and understand their ability to separate themselves
37:54from most of the teams in the Eastern Conference.
37:58And it's good to see because, I mean, for a while there, Gary,
38:01it looked like it was just going to be like Boston, Cleveland,
38:04and a bunch of folks just basically hanging out,
38:09hanging around to get that ass whipped.
38:10But they actually now, you look at the way Milwaukee's playing,
38:13you look at Orlando, what they're doing without one of their key guys,
38:16you look at the surge that we're seeing in Atlanta.
38:18Atlanta, in a lot of ways, reminds me of Indiana from last year,
38:22a team that seems to start making some strides to where they're progressing
38:26in the right way.
38:27But I would go a step further and say they're better than Indiana was last year
38:30because they have a central guy that they can build around,
38:33and they've got a lot of young, talented guys that have all-star promise.
38:37The Johnson kid is one I'm thinking of specifically,
38:40that they are only going to get better in time.
38:43And so Atlanta's a team that I wouldn't want to see them in the first round,
38:48put it that way, whether I'm the favorite team or whether I'm like,
38:51if they're in that 4-5 game, which I think they will be,
38:54I wouldn't feel good about seeing them in the first round because you really
38:57don't know what you're going to get with them.
38:59But back to Doc Rivers, though, he's done a really good job.
39:02And, again, after a horrific start, if there was ever like a comeback
39:06Coach of the Year award, which there never will be,
39:08but if there was one for this season, Doc Rivers might be that guy,
39:12considering how things played out at the beginning of the season
39:15and where they are now.
39:16Now, enough talk about former Celtics and former individuals like that.
39:23Let's talk about your Boston Celtics, Gary Washburn,
39:26who are playing the Chicago Bulls next.
39:29And as you look at the schedule, and I'm sure you recognize this too,
39:34this schedule coming up has the potential for them to do some pretty amazing things.
39:39I mean, Chicago is the first of seven straight games against teams that are sub-500.
39:44When you have the second-best record in the East
39:48and you've got a schedule like that coming up,
39:51you should be thinking about running the table.
39:53You should expect to run the table.
39:54I don't think they will.
39:55I think they'll have at least one, maybe two slip-ups.
39:57But the Celtics could conceivably go on the run
40:00and find themselves at the top of the Eastern Conference standings
40:03in the next week and a half.
40:05You're right.
40:06You're right, Sherrod.
40:07You're looking at two games against Chicago, two games against Indiana,
40:12Orlando, who's shorthanded, Philadelphia on Christmas,
40:16and then Toronto before you get to the juggernaut kind of tough part
40:19of their schedule where they go Minnesota, Houston, Oklahoma City, Denver,
40:23which might be their toughest West Coast trip in a while
40:27because there is no like, okay, you can mark this.
40:30They should win this one.
40:31Like Minnesota is going to be a tough road one.
40:34Houston on a back-to-back too.
40:36They're going all the way from Minnesota down to Texas for a back-to-back.
40:40That's going to be harder than Oklahoma City.
40:42And then Denver, you know, so that's a tough one.
40:46Then they come home and they get the tricky Sacramento Kings.
40:49So that's not going to be an easy stretch.
40:51But you're right, Sherrod, two games against the Bulls,
40:54two games against Indiana, Toronto, Orlando, Philadelphia.
40:58You'd like to think they can go 6-1 at least.
41:01You're right.
41:02There could be a slip-up there.
41:04Indiana is a tricky team.
41:06You don't know which Indiana is going to show up.
41:08Philadelphia will, I'm sure, play hard on Christmas Day.
41:11Orlando is tough at home, you know, and they got guys.
41:15Jalen Suggs is playing great ball right now, so they're going to be scrappy.
41:19And that game at Chicago, December 21st, a couple days from now,
41:24that's going to be a tricky game because they went and kind of had a slugfest
41:29with a shootout with Chicago a couple of weeks ago and was able to win,
41:34but it was definitely not a convincing win.
41:37So you're right.
41:38They should, should be able to, you know, go 6-1, 7-0.
41:45We'll see.
41:46But that's a stretch that they should, you know, pad their victories
41:52and eat very well.
41:55Absolutely.
41:56Feasts for sure.
41:57And they will obviously, you know, the Celtics,
42:00even if they don't fully show up, they're still going to show up well enough
42:03to win most of those games, if not all of them.
42:05I'm convinced of that.
42:06And hopefully Kwanee Leonard, excuse me, Kwanee Lunas,
42:09will be back with us next week and show up.
42:12Kwanee and me.
42:14Exactly.
42:16Facts, facts.
42:18But Kwanee, you know, we joke about her when she's here,
42:21we joke about her when she's not here.
42:22It's all love.
42:24And speaking of love, for those of us who,
42:26for those of you who are checking us out, whether it's on YouTube
42:29or through Spotify or whatever your podcasting app may be,
42:33you have a chance to show even more love to us in voting us for the best
42:37sports podcast.
42:38We've been nominated as a finalist for that award,
42:40and fans will be able to vote for us up through January 13th.
42:46And they're going to announce the winner on January 30th.
42:49So if you've got love for us, which I know all of you do out there,
42:53definitely vote for us.
42:54And you can do that at www.sportspodcastgroup.com
42:59slash shortlist dash category slash.
43:03That will be in our bios and in our information.
43:09And we'll be posting information with that link on all the various channels
43:13that our podcast can be seen and heard from.
43:15So definitely show us some love and give us that vote.
43:18That will be greatly appreciated.
43:21And before we wrap, Gary, what you got going on for the holidays?
43:25You going to be at the game on Christmas?
43:27I'll be at the game on Christmas.
43:29I'll be home just hanging with the family.
43:31Hopefully it doesn't snow or have any bad weather in Boston.
43:36It's a little cool, but it's nice outside.
43:40It's been good.
43:41It's been manageable.
43:42So, yeah, just be at home and try to enjoy the family
43:45and count all your blessings, man.
43:48Every day there's some things you hear about you don't like
43:51or somebody who's passing on, unfortunately.
43:55And so we got to just be blessed for the days we're here and our family.
44:01So instead of focusing on the gifts or what you're going to get
44:06or focus on the family around you and love them as much as you can.
44:11Facts.
44:12That's real.
44:13I got a little spoiled.
44:15You ain't getting nothing for Christmas, so focus on family.
44:18It's such a cold.
44:21That's all right.
44:22I'm cool with that.
44:24For Thanksgiving, I was out west.
44:27Yeah, we all know, having chimichangas.
44:30And, Gary, we're going to keep the warm holiday vibe going.
44:34I'm going to be in the south for Christmas this year.
44:36Oh, wow.
44:37Okay, okay.
44:38So I fully expect to not deal with snow.
44:41I fully expect to be eating nontraditional
44:44and traditional Christmas food.
44:46So, yeah, there will be some ham and all that,
44:48but there's going to be some other stuff, too.
44:50So I might get some Mexican.
44:52I'm feeling Mexican, Mexican food.
44:55I've been on a little Mexican kick lately with my food palate.
44:59But, again, to echo what you said, Gary, I mean,
45:03it really is about the people that are in your life
45:08and just really just being thankful for being around for them
45:14and them being around for you.
45:17That really is, as we get a little bit older
45:19and a little bit more wiser, hopefully,
45:21we embrace that reality more so than we did in our earlier years.
45:26But before we get out of here, Gary, before we get out of here,
45:29I want to give one more shout-out to our good friends at PrizePix,
45:32the exclusive daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media Network,
45:35and also our good friends at GameTime,
45:38which takes the guesswork out of buying last-minute tickets
45:41to your favorite sporting events and concerts.
45:43Just download the GameTime app, create an account,
45:46and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
45:50Terms apply.
45:51Just download the GameTime app, create an account,
45:53and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
45:58Terms apply.
45:59Hopefully, Gary, next week, Quanie Litter, Quanie Embiid,
46:05will be back with us, and then we can keep it going.
46:10Yeah, let's do it.
46:11As long as it's a new year.
46:13Absolutely, absolutely.
46:15All right, folks, that's it for this edition of the Big 3 MBA Podcast.
46:18I'm H. Rob Williams for Gary Washburn.
46:20We are out.
46:22♪♪♪