What Cedric Maxwell told Celtics star Jaylen Brown during a conversation between the two NBA Finals MVPs.
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00:00All right, so another episode of the Cedric Maxwell podcast.
00:11He's Cedric Maxwell.
00:12I am Josue Pavone.
00:14Celtics going through it right now.
00:16So I want to see where you're at in this panic
00:19meter with the Celtics and their fans
00:21right now after coming off of this overtime
00:24loss against the Atlanta Hawks.
00:26Now they're on the road out west.
00:27So we'll get into that, of course.
00:29Take a look at what's going on in the Western Conference
00:32with the Oklahoma City Thunder right now
00:34after their big win against the Cleveland Cavaliers.
00:36Fell short against the Dallas Mavericks,
00:38but returned to their winning ways Sunday night.
00:41But first things first, man.
00:42It's a Celtics-dominated podcast.
00:45So what's going on with your boys, man?
00:47What's good?
00:47Where were you?
00:47Where are you at in the panic meter
00:48right now with these guys?
00:50I'm not panicking.
00:51I think the thing that you have to understand
00:53that if you're the Celtics, that you're
00:56going to get the best effort from everybody
00:58every single night, not only because you're the Celtics,
01:00not because you're the world champion Celtics.
01:03And they just haven't played.
01:05They haven't shot it well.
01:06Derek White in the last two weeks was 3 for 28.
01:13He could do that in the dark, who has been shooting
01:16the lights out this year.
01:18Drew Holliday's been in and out of the lineup.
01:20Porzingis has been in and out of the lineup.
01:23And so I'm not panicking.
01:27But it does concern me with them defensively
01:31not being able to contain guys the way they did last year.
01:35You got the same kind of personnel,
01:37the same kind of scheme.
01:39But the offenses have kind of caught up
01:42with some of the Celtics' defensive schemes.
01:45What do you think is the key to that?
01:48How do they solve that problem?
01:50How do they get out of this rut?
01:51You think they addressed this somehow, the trade deadline?
01:54You think it's something that they would do in-house?
01:57What's the move here?
01:58Get your head out your ass.
02:00That would be it.
02:02And just get out and play in a dominating way.
02:07I talked to Jalen Brown, MVP last year in the finals.
02:11And I said, you know, Jalen, these guys follow you.
02:15What he does on defense, what he does on offense,
02:19this team takes up to another level.
02:21I know Tatum is considered your leader.
02:24But I think Brown is right there.
02:26And when he's defending that initial point of attack
02:29the way he can, I'd say it makes it tough for everybody else
02:33to be accountable out there when they have to get out and play
02:37in a very dominating fashion.
02:40What did he say to that?
02:41That's what's up, man.
02:41I didn't know you said that to him.
02:43He just looked at me, said, you know what?
02:45He did one of yours.
02:46He said, that's what's up.
02:48He used your line.
02:50That's a line right there.
02:51I said, from one MVP, he said, from one MVP to another.
02:57There you go.
02:57I like that.
02:58I like when he is dominant, he's aggressive.
03:03Maybe not taking the three as much, depending on that.
03:07But taking the ball towards the rack where he's so quick
03:10and so precise with those layups around the rim
03:14that it makes it very tough for defenses
03:17to kind of contain him.
03:19But he also has to do it on the defensive end and rebound.
03:23The Celtics have not been a good rebounding team.
03:26Too many second-chance opportunities.
03:28And it hurt them against Atlanta with all those different big
03:32bodies they had out there.
03:34Oh, Kongwu, man.
03:35He always eats up the Celtics in the paint, though, man.
03:37He's always grabbing like 18, 20-something rebounds
03:41when he plays with Celtics, though, yeah.
03:42He killed them last night.
03:45There was one point where Atlanta
03:47missed two free throws in a critical part late in the game,
03:51and he gets the offensive rebound.
03:53And I just said, you've got to box out the Kongwu.
03:57And what happened?
03:59You don't box him out.
04:00Long rebound.
04:00He gets it.
04:01And that served as the potential game winner.
04:05What did you make of Jason Tatum getting tied up the way
04:07he did with that jump ball, man?
04:08He was like, man, this is my ball.
04:10This is the one of those kids in the schoolyard
04:11where he was just like, oh, this is office of the court, man.
04:14Don't be taking this from me.
04:15When have we seen that?
04:17When have we ever seen that?
04:21I'm trying to think of the last time.
04:22That might have been the first time.
04:23That might have been the first time I've seen that from Tatum.
04:25You might see that with official, you know,
04:28jawing a little bit.
04:29But this is the first time I saw Jason Tatum go up
04:34to another player and get into that tit for tat,
04:38and I want the ball.
04:40The ball belongs to the NBA.
04:41And it was a dead ball situation.
04:44But Tatum wanted that ball.
04:46And people grabbed him.
04:47He pushed him away.
04:48It was much to do about nothing.
04:51But the attitude that Tatum had at that particular time,
04:54you know I've talked about that over and over again.
04:56I love it.
04:58I love Joe Mazzullo in the background.
04:59Like, that's what I'm talking about.
05:00Yeah.
05:01I'm talking about.
05:02Absolutely.
05:03Yeah.
05:04His dude.
05:04His dude.
05:05Man, you get me mad, Tatum, like that, man.
05:10I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
05:14But is that what it is, though?
05:15Do you think it's just a matter of just having that edge,
05:18having that fight when it really comes down to it?
05:20Because I don't know, man.
05:21Sometimes I feel like, I mean, from the games
05:23I've seen sometimes, when you talk about Jalen, right,
05:26being aggressive and taking matters into his own hands,
05:28he seemed kind of resilient, you know?
05:30I mean, I felt like we saw that, what was it?
05:32Against Dallas, was it?
05:34On the road?
05:36And I feel like he wasn't like as demanding.
05:38No, not Dallas.
05:38Excuse me.
05:39It was Minnesota.
05:40One of those games, I feel like, where he didn't even
05:42attempt a shot throughout most of that first half.
05:44Well, I think that in Tatum's way, in his defense,
05:49I think this is one of the things that happened.
05:51Let me tell you about the greatness.
05:53And I'm not comparing him, but I'm just telling you
05:55about how things have happened.
05:57The greatness of Michael Jordan, when
05:58he was playing at his peak, was he
06:00let everybody else get involved in the game.
06:04Because if you start out and you're the only scorer,
06:08then the defense gets back and they pack it in for you.
06:11But if you have Rodman scoring and Pippen scoring
06:16and Luke Longley and all these other guys,
06:19then now, late in the basketball game,
06:21you can't get over to help Michael.
06:23Then he has some true one-on-one.
06:24This episode of the Cedric Maxwell Podcast
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07:54Well, with Tatum showing that,
07:56I like what he had to say also after the game,
07:58being like, because Gary asked him about it,
07:59Gary Washburn, our friend of the show,
08:01and he's like, you know what, I was thinking of you, Gary.
08:03I did that for you, you know?
08:04I was trying to show that edge
08:06that sometimes people don't think I have.
08:09I think he was being kind of tongue in cheek with it,
08:11but he was just like, you know?
08:13I know you appreciated that.
08:14In other words, like, I know you.
08:17I could have been, I could have did a damn cartwheel
08:19when I saw him do that, and I don't do cartwheels,
08:23but I would have attempted one after I saw him
08:26run in there and slap at the ball and push a guy away.
08:29I was like, man, that's what I'm talking about,
08:32because it's only going to help this team
08:35with their intensity.
08:37Last night's game, you did not have Porzingis,
08:39you didn't have Horford, so those were two rebounders
08:42which you definitely could have used last night,
08:44but you don't use them on the second night
08:47with back-to-back.
08:47I thought that you might even want to roll the dice
08:51and use one of them,
08:52but Joe Mazzulla is staying true to his form.
08:58Now, will the same-
09:00What about Cato?
09:01Hello, Cato, you can get a little feisty on him.
09:03And again, will the same thing happen
09:07when you play the Lakers?
09:10You got the Lakers on this trip.
09:13You got a second night with back-to-back
09:14against the Lakers.
09:16Is Porzingis going to play one game,
09:18Horford not going to play the other?
09:21Is it minute restrictions?
09:23I mean, Cato has done some yeoman work defensively,
09:29but he has a hard time of moving his feet.
09:32When they set a pick, he doesn't move his feet
09:36well enough to go challenge the shooter
09:38once he comes off that pick and roll.
09:40So he's going to have to learn a lot of things.
09:44No, no, no question.
09:45I mean, look, I just, I don't know.
09:48I can't help it, but I have the urge to ask you
09:51if after seeing that, did you, without question,
09:54you know what I mean?
09:55Like, is Tatum out the equation
09:57when we're talking about the softest superstar,
09:59softest superstar of all time?
10:02Shout out to Brandon Jennings.
10:04Brandon Jennings trolling the Celtics fans
10:07with that loss against the Hobbs.
10:10Some people want to just needle the Celtics.
10:15And that needling could really help the Celtics
10:18because I'm a firm believer
10:20that if you give me a mad Jason Tatum,
10:23it's going to pay dividends down the line
10:25for this total team.
10:29Or the other day, Kristoff was saying
10:30he's always smiling, always smiling.
10:33Well, he came in the game, the game before this one,
10:36and man, he was just dominant.
10:38And I don't think I've ever seen a scowl on his face,
10:42but that's what he had,
10:43and that's what it's going to take
10:45as you go into the playoffs.
10:48No question.
10:49I mean, that's the thing though with the Celtics team.
10:50I mean, you don't feel like they're,
10:54compared to what you're seeing now,
10:55you don't think that same team's gonna show up
10:56in the postseason, you know?
10:57Like, I hate to use the phrase,
10:58like, oh, they're just bored, wait for the playoffs.
11:00I don't think it's that,
11:01but like, they just know when they're in that moment,
11:03I mean, they were damn near unstoppable,
11:06even without Kristoff throughout
11:07that last year's playoffs, you know?
11:09We're talking about the same team here,
11:10we're talking about the same guys,
11:11and none of these people as individuals
11:14give you the sense that there's a significant drop-off.
11:16Well, here's the thing that happened
11:19that people don't talk about.
11:20One, you don't talk about how much
11:23Jason Tatum played last year, or did not play.
11:26You think of him playing the championship
11:29and then leaving here,
11:30going and playing with the Olympic team,
11:32Derek White doing the same thing.
11:33Now, neither one of those guys got big minutes,
11:36but it's still just a preparation
11:39to get there for both of those guys,
11:41I think could be a little wear and tear on both their bodies
11:44and it showed up so far
11:46when you watch White struggle shooting the basketball.
11:51I think you just have to give your body
11:53opportunity to rest at some point.
11:57So nothing crazy, no shakeup at the trade deadline.
11:59I'm not saying these guys gonna go out there
12:01and trade Jalen,
12:01but you don't think they do something to address this bench?
12:04How are you feeling about the second unit, man?
12:06And I know this is kind of a while ago,
12:08but that second unit-
12:11That second unit got you a championship, just what?
12:13Or is it the same one you talked about?
12:15Is it the same one?
12:16I don't know, man.
12:18Who is it?
12:19You got an improved Pritchett over there.
12:23You say Pritchett is having a solid
12:26six man of the year candidate right now.
12:30He's put up a strong campaign.
12:31Pouser struggled shooting the basketball,
12:34but he's defended much better.
12:36But I've been hearing people talk about
12:38who the Celtics might end up signing.
12:40Xavier Tillman, he was putting in work for a minute.
12:43Xavier Tillman isn't even getting in the game now.
12:47He doesn't play.
12:48They're trying to do a lot of different things.
12:51And Brad Stephens just happens to be on this trip
12:55out here, out West.
12:56So I'm sure he's going to be evaluating
13:00potential suitors or potential people
13:04the Celtics could bring in.
13:06Okay.
13:07That's what I'm thinking, man.
13:07Just a little something to give these guys
13:09an edge off the bench a little bit.
13:10Because I don't know, man.
13:11I know it was a bit of a go.
13:12You know, it was about a couple of weeks now,
13:14but that game against the Thunder, man.
13:16Like if Pritchett's not on,
13:18that bench gets really thin, man.
13:21Like really thin.
13:22Yeah, that's true.
13:23I mean, who are the-
13:25I just saw something about Corey Craig might be a guy
13:29the Celtics might sign, but I'm looking for a score.
13:33If anything, Hauser has struggled so far this year.
13:37But you know, when Hauser gets on, he gets on.
13:39But he had a lot of easy, easy looks last night's game
13:45that he just kind of gator armed.
13:48You think we saw an NBA Finals preview in that matchup
13:50over here at the Paycom Center?
13:51How'd you enjoy yourself here at OKC?
13:53I know it was a little cold.
13:55I mean, they got the snowflakes going
13:58before the game for you guys from Boston.
14:01I see Bobby and Noah complaining about,
14:03oh, it's so cold.
14:04I'm like, you guys just came from Boston, stop it.
14:06The nicest people in the world.
14:09I had my Louis Vuitton bag that I carry with me.
14:13I was in a restaurant in OKC, in the hotel.
14:18I left this bag, I left this bag on the table.
14:24I left it on the table.
14:26Had a lot of money in it.
14:29And forgot it until I had gone to the restaurant
14:31to eat at eight o'clock that night.
14:34I didn't realize I had left a bag until about 10.30
14:37because we were playing the game.
14:39And so I finally ended up calling downstairs
14:42and they said, well, let's get you a security.
14:46Security didn't pick up.
14:48And then finally I went to the restaurant
14:50and the lady said, oh, they'll have your bag.
14:52They're bringing it now.
14:53They just had it in the safe.
14:54I'm like, and I had credit cards in this thing.
14:57I said, you go ahead, OKC.
14:59You mean some of the most honest people around.
15:02I was like, I might have had about three or $400 in there
15:06and the money was still there with all my credit cards.
15:08So yeah, that's how I feel about OKC.
15:11And would it be one of those things, this is the,
15:15I still, I'm not necessarily a believer.
15:20Okay, let's tell you why.
15:21It's not that I hate on OKC, but I think in the playoffs
15:27they are scrappy as hell, but the game slows down.
15:32Last year when they were scrappy as hell,
15:34the game slowed down and their pace slowed down
15:37and they weren't able to get the production
15:40from kids like Shea Gildress Alexander.
15:42They weren't able to get those things.
15:44So the teams are gonna try to take the air out of the ball
15:49to make sure that OKC is gonna be playing legit.
15:52So I'm just kind of crazy about the opportunities,
15:57which could be there.
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17:56He's the MVP for me, man.
17:57I don't know if anyone can pass him.
17:59I mean, I know we still got a whole half of the season here.
18:02We're literally at the halfway mark,
18:03but man, just what he does on both ends of the floor,
18:06I just think it's incredible.
18:07And then on the, especially on the offensive side,
18:10like people just can't stay in front of him, Max.
18:12I mean, a lot of the time, like the reason why
18:15he's not putting up 50, like not on the reg,
18:17but like you don't see it more often
18:19is because man, it's a damn blowout
18:21by the time the fourth quarter comes around
18:22and he's on the bench with 40, you know,
18:23like it's just been incredible, man.
18:25Yep.
18:26And you have guys over there on the bench
18:28who are really good scorers
18:29who can do a lot of different things for you.
18:31So they take away with the point production,
18:35but at the same time, I think that they just need focus
18:38on keeping themselves in shape
18:41and making sure they're not hurt,
18:43especially with a playoff run.
18:45Well, that's the thing, man.
18:46I mean, he, so when he tweaked his wrist,
18:51he thought he was all right going into Dallas,
18:52but that morning or going into the arena,
18:55he felt it was really sore.
18:56So, you know, he had to sit out.
18:58SGA missed about seven games last year.
19:00So it was really rare.
19:01He hasn't missed any this year.
19:02And yeah, man, look, they were down 20 in a big way.
19:05It looked like it was going to be a blowout,
19:07but then they came right back.
19:08They fell short in the end, you know,
19:09fourth quarter, Kyrie did his thing.
19:11Other guys stepped up.
19:12Spencer Dinwood, he hit a couple of big shots as well.
19:15But I mean, yeah, I just think even when he's not
19:19in the picture, they can still keep up
19:22with some of the best teams in the NBA,
19:24but he's the difference maker, man.
19:25He's the reason why they win.
19:26He's a big reason why they stomped all over the Cavs
19:29in a way I've never seen.
19:31You know, man, attacking up Damien,
19:33120 points through three quarters.
19:34It was unbelievable, man.
19:35Like he's the motor of that office,
19:38but don't get it twisted, man.
19:39He also gets it done on the defensive side as well.
19:41Well, I tell you what, you're going to attack Cleveland
19:45and these other teams with the smaller people
19:47they have on the floor.
19:49When you have a guy who is 6'10", 6'11",
19:53and under his wing at OKC is Lou Dork.
19:58Yeah, man.
19:59Lou Dork happens to be-
20:00He's a pest.
20:00He's a matchup nightmare because he's so physical
20:04with Tatum and Brown.
20:06So, but I just believe that at the end,
20:10OKC will not win it.
20:14And the reason they won't win it
20:15because I think they're small
20:17and the game slows down to a snail's pace later on
20:22in the playoffs.
20:23And that's where the teams get rolling.
20:26What about getting out of the West though?
20:27I don't know.
20:28I don't know if I can see it.
20:29I don't know if another team can beat them
20:30in the best of seven.
20:33I don't know.
20:34Again, it depends.
20:36Last year, did you see-
20:37Dallas might be the best one, to be honest.
20:39They might be the-
20:40Did you see Dallas beating them?
20:42Who's playing well right now?
20:43Minnesota's starting to play a lot better.
20:45So I think the teams out there
20:47can give us some real problems,
20:49especially with their physicality.
20:50And the team that I think might be able to give them
20:53that much more trouble could be, you know,
20:55Houston in that way with Emay and his people.
20:58Emay is, them dudes right there, they come to play.
21:02They are physical, they dominate,
21:04they're mean, shangu, people like that.
21:07So I like what they bring to the table.
21:10It's funny, man.
21:11The other night they were playing
21:12the Trailblazers, you know, Rob Williams,
21:15old friend of Emay, comes over and says,
21:17what up and everything.
21:18And the captain reads, you know,
21:21like a conversation between them two,
21:23which I don't think there was any lip readers anywhere.
21:25They were just being funny.
21:27He's like, man, you stay healthy.
21:29We're gonna get you during the trade down line.
21:30All right, boy, just stay healthy.
21:31Stay healthy.
21:32I'm like, oh, man, that would be a nice reunion.
21:36Even if you were to come off the bench,
21:38what a lift that would be
21:39if Houston could swing a deal like that.
21:42But to the guy's point, whoever put that post together,
21:45happy to see him healthy, man.
21:47It's happy to see Rob back out there.
21:48Hopefully that's gonna be the case
21:50throughout the rest of the season.
21:51Yeah, yeah.
21:52You kind of miss Rob with those one arm-
21:55Those lobs, man.
21:56Yeah.
21:57All the rebounds.
21:59You kind of miss him for that,
22:00but at the same time, I think he served his purpose
22:03for this team and who they are and what they need to do.
22:06Yeah, they trained at the perfect time, Max.
22:08Let me tell you that.
22:09Yeah.
22:11All right, last thing I wanna bring up real quick.
22:14We used to pry Jason Tatum, put the social media posts
22:18sort of in a response to Brandon Jennings
22:21saying with the funny font,
22:22saying the softest Celtics superstar in the history.
22:26I mean, what was it?
22:27The softest superstar in Celtics history?
22:29Like, he doesn't usually do that.
22:31And then it's funny, when he was asked about it
22:32during a press conference, he was just like,
22:34yeah, you know, I had some time.
22:35I had time that day.
22:36I had time to get to clap back at the haters.
22:39I like it, you know?
22:41I like the chip on his shoulder.
22:42You seen a little bit, you know,
22:44with what happened against the Hawks,
22:45you know, getting with that jump ball.
22:49And I'm not trying to say Brandon Jennings
22:50is the reason behind that,
22:51but I'm glad you started hearing that noise
22:53and responding to it the way superstars
22:56typically do on the court.
22:57That's what happens.
22:58You're a superstar in this league,
22:59you hear a little whispers about what you can't do.
23:03And then when you remind people of what you did,
23:06now all of a sudden it's like, whoa, whoa,
23:08I get it, I get it, I get it.
23:10So yeah, I'm not worried.
23:12I think these things are going to take care of themselves.
23:15And we just want to say, you know,
23:17thank you guys for supporting us.
23:19I don't think we thank you for the new year,
23:21but we want to thank you guys for the new year,
23:24your support, everybody who listens to the show,
23:28all our people, little Ahmed,
23:30who puts this joint together for us.
23:33But we don't give those guys enough credit.
23:37You know, I can't give credit.
23:38I can't give credit to your guy, Bobby though.
23:42Bobby, Bobby, I'm still burnt right now with the,
23:45as Bobby put me in the mix and said,
23:48oh, that came from a high ranking Celtica pitcher.
23:51Bob Manning.
23:53You ain't never gonna let Bobby live that down.
23:55Bob Manning, know who you talking to, brother,
23:57know who you talking to, so.
24:01All right, Bax, look, before we get out of here,
24:03what do you, how do you feel about this matchup
24:05against the Warriors, man?
24:06You know the Warriors, they're gonna try
24:07to set the match to the champions.
24:09You know, your boy Draymond's gonna be Draymond.
24:10You know, he's still the same old competitor.
24:14Golden State is struggling,
24:16but if there's a team that brings it out of them,
24:19it's the Boston Celtics, the way they're playing right now.
24:22They can bring, they can help them come out of their funk,
24:25so we'll see how these things go.
24:28Absolutely, man, I can't wait to see how it all pans out.
24:30I mean, we're not too far from the All-Star break,
24:32and of course, plenty of basketball
24:33on the other side of that,
24:34and plenty of content here on the Cedric Maxwell Podcast,
24:37so tune in, subscribe, review, rate.
24:40Hit us up, man, it means a lot to us.
24:42And of course, we'll be right back
24:43for another episode next week.
24:45He's Cedric Maxwell, I am Josue Pobon.
24:47We'll see you guys then.
24:48Mahalo.