Seth Landman is a former writer for ESPN Fantasy. Seth drops by to discuss the downside to the Porzingis addition, what the Celtics still need to do to the roster, and why Nikola Jokic is so great. Twitter: @slandman33
6:24 Can’t bank on KP duplicating last year
19:00 Celtics need more connectors
32:20 Celtics shouldn’t be title favorites
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6:24 Can’t bank on KP duplicating last year
19:00 Celtics need more connectors
32:20 Celtics shouldn’t be title favorites
This episode of the Celtics Beat Podcast is brought to you by Fanduel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network. Visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and start earning BONUS BETS with America’s #1 Sportsbook! Because right now, when you bet on a Super Bowl Winner, you can GET BONUS BETS EVERY TIME THEY WIN IN THE REGULAR SEASON!
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00:00 Celtics beat brought to you by fan do the exclusive wagering partner of the CLN X media network
00:07 All right, everybody what's up welcome to August first Celtics beat of the month and I guess that puts us in position to say
00:16 We are what uh, not not a month exactly, but next month is training camp, right?
00:22 Next month we get into preseason games regular seasons right around the corner. That's gonna be in October
00:28 We don't have the official schedule out yet, but it should happen in the next I don't know week two weeks
00:32 We'll we'll find out exactly when Boston opens up and this right here. There were a few things
00:38 There are a few things with this particular episode and Evan Valente's here Adam Kaufman, of course said landman. Welcome back. How are you, buddy?
00:44 Oh good
00:46 So let's talk about the seas
00:48 Well, and I was thinking if we you know, we've we've had a great rotation of people on lately
00:53 obviously people that are that are on the beat or columnists or national people or whatever but but
01:00 We haven't sort of pulled back and done, you know, kind of one of these more fan centric shows in a while
01:06 I thought this was a a good opportunity to do that before we even jump in though
01:10 You may have noticed I don't know about visually if how obvious it is
01:15 But if you are listening to the audio, you may have noticed I I have I haven't even told you this
01:20 I'm I'm on like day three here of the Invisalign treatment. Oh
01:25 So I've got the I've got the trays in right now and when I when I talk slower
01:32 Not obvious at all when I start to like really move
01:36 Then then then that's when I've got an aggressive list that starts to show up
01:42 So that's gonna happen at some point during this show. I appreciate everybody's patience with me
01:46 I know you might be out there listening and thinking cough
01:49 If it's bugging you that much
01:51 Why don't you take it out for the show and then put it well because I am trying to motor through this thing as quickly
01:58 As humanly possible and so in doing that you're supposed to I'm sure people out there listening have
02:03 There are probably people out there doing Invisalign right now and however many that have done it before and this is this is strictly to the
02:10 Invisalign community. This is not to the oh I had braces community
02:14 I never had braces and this is like the teeth karma gods coming back for all those years of like boasting about how I
02:20 You know like never needed braces. Well
02:23 With a vengeance it has caught up with me here. And so you're supposed to wear these things roughly
02:29 22 out of 24 hours a day and
02:32 I mean obviously like give or take like if it's that big a deal, you know
02:38 It's just like if you do it 20 hours a day as opposed to 22
02:41 You're just gonna be wearing it that much longer. I don't want to do that. I want to you know
02:45 So I so I'm gonna battle through I'm gonna I'm gonna broadcast through this thing if you will
02:50 At least at least while I can handle it heroes. They walk among us not not all heroes wear capes guys
02:57 Yeah, and and if anyone is thinking about doing Invisalign, by the way, it's more pain
03:03 You know
03:03 It's all if like if you're if you're teetering if you're if you're you know
03:07 Like people the dentist has brought it up to you and I don't know if I want to go through the process
03:11 Like never mind the the the monetary part like put that out the window. I'm just talking about the actual treatment
03:17 I can tell you only like three days in
03:20 The treatment itself is is really not bad
03:23 Like you get as as much as I was questioning so many things in my life on day one
03:28 After a few after a few days like the the trays
03:32 Not bad like you get used to it. Here's what I don't think guys I will ever get used to
03:37 Mm-hmm. I'm a big snacker
03:40 And you can't snack without taking these things you can't eat with these things obviously
03:46 So I I've become like a three meal a day guy
03:49 Oh my god, because I because when they're not in I have to go hours on end not eating which again
03:56 Like that's plenty of people do that, but that's not my reality
03:59 So this this right here if this is an adjustment for my unhealthy eating lifestyle file in for you. Carrie Lee. Thank you
04:06 Yeah, Wow
04:08 What can we do for you in this time of need?
04:11 I guess
04:13 Toxeltyx, okay, I guess that's what I'm looking for from you guys. It's shot two free throws of the ruptured Achilles and you're doing
04:21 Yes with a visalign and I mean who is to say I?
04:25 mean
04:28 It's you know
04:30 Day right
04:34 I mean sure does Isaiah Thomas also, you know
04:38 Spent a whole morning in the dentist's chair and then played a game that night
04:42 thing same thing obviously watch a hero's bunch of heroes, all right, so
04:48 no, I I like that we're doing this show right now here in early August because
04:55 Obviously on because we get to talk about invisalign
04:58 No, because the Jalen Brown extension is finally done we've obviously had
05:10 It one multiple. I don't even remember at this point show us to talk about it Evan and
05:16 That's sort of like the next thing and we talked about this our last show with Chris Forsberg was you know
05:23 It now people are starting to have the Derek White extension conversation
05:27 There's not really anything else out there Celtics news wise like for people like me to keep banging the drum that I don't think they're done
05:34 Yet. I don't think they're done yet. I'm waiting for that next shoe to drop
05:37 I'm not sure the next shoe is gonna drop short of obviously like
05:41 You know like resigning Blake Griffin or something like that. I know they you know, the Celtics have been attached to the Pistons guy
05:48 How do I pronounce this guy's name? Sfima Kylik? Thank you. They've been attached to him
05:52 maybe that's something that ends up happening, but
05:54 Right now this it's a good
05:57 reset period for this show because
06:00 For all intents and purposes guys, like this is the roster, you know, no
06:05 barring something significant and
06:08 Of course like there are reports that like the Celtics are still kind of working the phones and shopping around
06:13 Maybe we get that big August trade a lot, you know, like the Kyrie Irving swap happened in August
06:18 Maybe there'll be some big August trade assuming that doesn't happen at this point
06:22 You know, this is the group. This is the core
06:25 Chris Stapps Porzingis Seth is a member of this team
06:28 We have not had you on this show since obviously that went down
06:31 We've talked plenty but not on this show Marcus Smart is gone. Grant Williams is gone. Everything else is generally intact
06:37 How are we feeling about this roster as compared to last year? And what?
06:41 Major questions. Do you have going forward? Oh
06:44 Man, well, can we first can we have a fair and balanced conversation about Chris Stapps Porzingis? Yes
06:52 No, because like I want to talk about there's like a Twitter guy there's like a kind of Twitter guy
06:57 these days who is like
07:00 Okay, what this what this kind of person is doing is like
07:04 taking video highlight videos of Porzingis from last year in Washington with the Wizards and
07:10 acting like this is like the Rosetta Stone to understanding the entire career of this person and I just want to like
07:20 Okay, Chris Stapps Porzingis is a really good basketball player
07:23 He also is like was it hard for you to admit that? No, it's not hard for me to admit that at all
07:28 Yeah, I don't think I
07:31 think what's going on is that
07:34 When it's convenient people want to look at the previous season and say that
07:41 Like improvement is linear
07:43 Whatever you did last season. You should be able to replicate that the subsequent season
07:48 But this guy has not been a good player
07:51 For like most of the last four years. He had a really good last year last year and I think what's going on is
07:59 That he's a player who we everyone talks about how he misses a lot of time like he's injury-prone
08:06 He misses games. I think the bigger concern is that when he's hurt and he does play he's ineffective and so
08:14 Not only are you missing some games?
08:16 But but like part of the reason that he wasn't as effective in
08:19 Dallas as he was last year in Washington is that he wasn't healthy and so what that affects is like is
08:25 All are all the things that the Celtics are ostensibly bringing him in to do so
08:30 They've talked a lot about like beating mismatches in the post. So scoring out of the post
08:36 He was great out of the post last year. I looked up he shot 61% on post ups last year the previous three seasons
08:43 It's 46% 50% 42%
08:46 He's not like this is not a player who has traditionally been a good post-up player
08:51 He had a really good year last year doing it
08:54 The the rim protection so like last year
08:59 opponents shot
09:02 53.5%
09:03 Within six feet of the hoop when he was the primary defender the previous two seasons
09:08 It was up at 57% which isn't good
09:11 So he yes, he was a good rim protector last year. He's still not nearly the rim protector
09:16 He was early in his career and for the previous two seasons when Dallas brought him in to do that job
09:22 On a team that had real ambitions. He struggled to do that. So I
09:27 This is not to say like I don't even know what to predict for next year. Like if he's healthy
09:32 I think he'll be really good. I think I think
09:34 There's there's good reasons to believe he could replicate some of what he did last year
09:39 but it's it's totally fair to wonder about
09:42 Whether last year was a fluke and and I think a good comparison point would be like a player like Julius Randall
09:50 Who has made made all NBA teams two of the last three years?
09:54 But is sandwiched in between those two seasons is a season where he was terrible
09:59 And I think you know a lot of players who aren't
10:02 You know like the top ten players in the league are gonna have years where they're better than other years
10:08 Depending on how healthy they are or what system they're in and so I don't know that like when it comes to Porzingis
10:15 I feel like I think the Celtics have a lot of eggs in that basket
10:21 Especially with the the two years they added on to his deal
10:24 I think I think they're paying him fair market rate. I just it's not the gamble
10:30 I would choose to make if I was running a team
10:32 and and I think
10:36 I'd rather like run it back with smart and Grant Williams or if you're gonna do that smart trade take all the
10:42 Assets that they could have got and instead
10:45 So do you believe they're worse?
10:48 So on paper are we saying that porzingis like how many games are you giving Porzingis on paper? Well, I mean you're
10:58 If I give him 50 games, I think like 50 out of 80 if I give him 55 games
11:05 Let's say he plays two-thirds of the games. I think they probably win right around the same number of games. They won last year
11:11 I don't I don't think they're meaningfully worse or better
11:14 I just I think I think they have like a more likely downside than they did last year
11:20 But I think you know if everything goes right, they're just as good a team as they were
11:25 I'm gonna ask you to do what Celtics front office had to do when
11:30 considering whether or not to make this trade
11:32 put yourself inside, you know, Brad Stevens said Mike Zarin said Austin anxious head whoever else and
11:38 Project, you know, we don't know we're not gonna know until we actually see it, but we are projecting
11:43 Mm-hmm looking back on you know, he's he's bounced around a little bit, but let's forget, New York. Let's forget
11:50 Dallas just last year in Washington
11:52 specifically, let's say that was some sort of a
11:57 Turning point he's entering his prime years age wise all that good stuff that people like to reflect upon David Aldridge
12:03 You know who watched him very closely there was on this show and talked about how in his mind
12:08 Porzingis is your perfect third star which obviously is what the Celtics are asking him to be
12:13 How do you believe he fits into this system and what the Celtics are going to want from him? Yeah, I think
12:20 So
12:23 once
12:24 What I think is that once it became clear that Derek White needed to play more
12:28 I think at some point last year became clear Derek White was the best guard on this team and
12:33 Once you acknowledge that
12:36 You have to acknowledge something we saw in the playoffs
12:39 Which is the Derek White is not as good at Marcus smart as Marcus smart at guarding up
12:44 and so I think if you have more lineups with Derek White on the floor and
12:50 A higher percentage of minutes with Derek White on the floor
12:52 You're sort of already conceding that you probably can't switch on defense quite as much as you were switching before
12:58 That it's gonna make sense to play more standard coverages
13:02 So once you decide that I think there's some reasons to try to get bigger
13:07 Porzingis is really good in the drop. In fact, it's probably the only defense he's comfortable playing like he's not someone that's gonna be out
13:15 On the perimeter checking guys and staying with like water bug guards on the perimeter
13:20 You want him around the rim and hopefully if he's healthy when he's been healthy in his career
13:26 He's done a pretty good job protecting the rim. So I think in that sense
13:31 It's it's like it's it's fair to those two things go together more Derek White
13:40 Less switching porzingis makes sense in that scheme. I think all those pieces do kind of fit
13:46 Yeah, I mean I I guess I'll push back in the idea that they might not be better
13:51 I mean, I think their ceiling is higher if they just stay healthier there
13:54 I think they're better on paper will see how things gel
13:58 You know you get nervous when you add a big piece like that to an already established team
14:02 Like one of the things that we've talked about endlessly on the show is one of the reasons why Boston's been so successful over
14:07 The past, you know what feels like decade, but you know since the Jays come into town
14:12 Is it just the continuity of this team? I mean Brad Stevens is still there
14:16 The Jays have been a part of everything essentially like Marcus, you know shipping out
14:20 Marcus is tough because he's been there longer than everybody else now
14:24 Jalen Brown's the longest tenured subject on this team, right?
14:27 Is that is that true if you take away the work for going to Philly for a while Wow. Yeah
14:31 Oh, it's it's the continuity of this team is is been changed a little bit
14:36 But I think what's gonna be helpful for Zingas is there's gonna be like an established hierarchy in here. I've sort of
14:41 bounced around this idea that
14:44 Poor Zingas wasn't brought in to be a three
14:46 He was actually brought in to be a two in terms of the hierarchy of scoring. I think
14:50 Asking Jalen to you know be the primary
14:54 Offensive focal point in an offense. We've kind of seen that a little bit and everybody's gonna be like
14:59 Well, his contract says he's supposed like I don't care about that
15:02 I think poor Zingas is a is someone that takes over an offense a little bit easier than Jalen does just because of his
15:09 Size and he's just an incredibly good shooter
15:11 I mean some some people have gone out of the way to say like he's a 7-3 shooting guard and sometimes
15:15 He looks like one for sure, you know, but other times, you know when he's in the post
15:19 He has that length to shoot over guys
15:22 But like for me like this poor Zingas thing
15:25 It's gonna be a rocky sort of road
15:27 I think for the first couple of months to try and figure out how this whole team fits together
15:31 You're really it's not like you're adding some
15:33 outlier piece
15:35 You know
15:35 Like you're not adding like James Posey or an Eddie house to him to make this rain Posey had obviously a little bit more
15:43 Of a role than any house didn't and we all love Eddie house the show
15:46 But it's you're adding a major piece here. So like I think I think it's reasonable to expect, you know
15:53 so that like the same thing that we saw the first year with email or the team was absolutely
15:58 atrocious for the first four months of the year then all of a sudden the calendar in February and everything just went like this and
16:04 They had the best defense in the league for three months and and if Robin to get hurt
16:09 maybe their NBA Finals, you know champions, but
16:11 My expectation set is this is gonna have some growing pains to it when we really start unless
16:16 Like we have some unreal synergy here that we didn't tap into a while back. I think it's gonna be a little bumpy. I
16:23 Mean, there's such a good
16:26 Like even if Porzingis didn't play a game this year
16:29 They're like an incredibly good basketball team. That's gonna win a lot of regular season games. I mean, that's just like
16:36 That they got the Jays that they have enough good players to win like a ton of regular season games
16:42 basically, no matter what happens
16:45 I
16:47 Guess I I don't know. It'll be it's hard to like agree or disagree about the higher ceiling thing. I think
16:53 To me, it looks like a team with a lower ceiling because of the because of less defensive versatility
16:59 But I think it's fair to imagine a world where there's so much better on offense that it covers up for that
17:04 at the same time I am like it's hard not to worry about the the
17:10 Like how the ball is gonna move and just like a team passing IQ kind of this is like
17:17 you know losing smart like replacing smart and Grant Williams with Porzingis is like
17:23 Is a pretty drastic
17:25 Downgrade and overall like ball movement IQ I think
17:30 and I'm I'm pretty concerned about
17:34 Like the only guard on the team that you can really rely on to set up an offense at this point. I think is white
17:41 I
17:43 think Pritchard and Brogdon are much better suited to
17:45 attacking off the second side or like using an advantage that someone else has already created so
17:53 It really what it's gonna come down to is the Jays and I think that in some ways the most interesting piece of losing smart
18:00 is
18:02 What happens to the sort of like leadership vacuum on this team and are the Jays?
18:08 Is there some sort of like mystical thing that gets better?
18:12 Because the Jays have like more sort of interpersonal responsibilities suddenly do they?
18:19 Or and maybe Jalen's contract is part of this too. Just like does that stability?
18:24 Allow them to sort of like more freely move the ball
18:29 Because that to me is the biggest question about this team if those two guys just like openly and freely move the ball
18:35 They're gonna be the offense is gonna be what it was in the early days of last season and they're gonna be a really really
18:42 Hard team to beat but we see what happens when they get bogged down
18:46 The last few months of the season the playoffs
18:48 It affects the defense that they're just not as good a team when it's like that
18:54 better mind as
18:57 They have these however many it is at this point three or four
19:01 roster spots at the very end obviously at the bench of either
19:05 You know someone maybe they sign out of who was with them in summer league or maybe it's a G League guy
19:12 Or maybe it's a you know, one of these stash guys overseas or maybe it's you know
19:16 Obviously veteran minimum guys across the board. I have no idea
19:19 What's missing to you from this roster and not even in terms of like I want them to go get this specific player
19:26 Although if you have a guy in mind by all means but you know just the skill set
19:32 What what is something you feel like they need to go out and get I?
19:35 Think what's missing is is connectors
19:38 Like players who
19:42 Actually the thing they brought in Derek white to do originally which is part of what they liked about him
19:47 It's almost a cliche to talk about it at this point, but coming from Sam
19:51 From San Antonio
19:53 He had the whole like point five thing that they always talk about with just making really really really fast decisions with the ball
20:00 And sometimes without the ball. I mean he makes really really heady cuts
20:06 All those things just keep an offense moving and one of the things I worry about with losing smart is like it may seem
20:13 counterintuitive because the conversation around smart was always that he was like doing almost doing too much on offense, but
20:19 It's hard like you think about all the possessions. He that smart bailed them out of with shots and post ups and
20:26 Just being able to run a pick and roll and see over the defense and make good passes
20:31 They don't really
20:34 Beyond the Jays, there's just less of that. There's less of
20:38 The kinds of players who create advantages out of nothing
20:42 And so that's my biggest concern so I I would love to like trade
20:49 like I
20:51 Replacing Brogdon with a more natural point guard someone who's like a little more like heads up with the ball
20:57 a
20:59 Little more like able to create an advantage without already having one
21:04 Or and then or just like passing IQ so I think about like
21:08 I mean last year
21:11 I think I talked about like Joe Ingalls who isn't a player you really want
21:14 But I mean the problem is anyone you bring in has to be able to crack the rotation
21:18 The one name the one specific name I would mention I don't think okc will ever trade him, but
21:25 Now I'm forgetting his name, but Kenny Huss uh Ken Kenrich Williams
21:31 He fits into the traded player exception that the Celtics still have and he's a player
21:35 I've just always wanted them to get cuz he he just like does a bunch of things at like a b-plus level and it makes
21:42 Like really smart fast decisions with the ball, but I think
21:45 This team has everything it needs to win the championship already on the roster
21:51 But it comes down to the ability of the Jays to make quicker decisions with the ball like the ideal thing is that they become
21:58 those guys
22:00 Yeah, I would be ideal. I think again. I think this offense is gonna change a little bit fundamentally
22:05 You know with with poor zingus and you know the hope that the Jays keep on growing and adding new things to their arsenal
22:12 Like I think we're all waiting for Jason Tatum be a better post-up player
22:16 You know I think everybody thought of we're all kind of revolving around it
22:19 And what damage you can do as a really good post player. That's kind of like the next thing in this game
22:24 Rob for that matter a better three-point percentage while maintaining
22:28 You know a better free-throw rate going to the line a lot more
22:31 I mean that was the one big jump we saw was you know Jason's hands free throw attempts went to the roof trying to mean
22:36 And maybe you can maintain that by occupying more time in the block like I don't know the idea
22:41 But you know it's it's in you know with the addition of poor zing is to this offense is gonna change a lot
22:46 You know it's it's the spacing is gonna be different, and this is quite. I'm talking about this sort of
22:52 throughout the summer
22:55 This is gonna be a really hard job for Joe Missoula and that coaching staff to like have what they had last year
23:00 I'm big alright, so remember last year
23:02 We're gonna change this up
23:04 Dramatically maybe I don't know we'll see but like the fact that they have two other guys on that coaching staff that have a clue
23:10 And I'm not trying to
23:12 Downplay everybody else that was on it. Just wasn't a great fit for everybody, but having two veteran guys to maybe
23:19 Help Missoula out a little bit. I think it's gonna be a
23:23 ginormous ginormous part of this team, and you know I
23:26 I'm excited to see what it looks like is I want to see the next step of Jason Tatum. I've been
23:31 Advocating for point Tatum for now three years here at this point or two years in a row now because I think you know with
23:37 Him having the ball in his hands and making more decisions
23:39 I just trust him more than pretty much anybody else. I named Derek white in this team at this point now like I just think
23:44 After like when you get rid of Marcus smart
23:48 I agree with sesame this when you get rid of Marcus smart you get rid of a guy that
23:52 Just has a good idea of where everybody is at all times
23:56 And it has an idea of how to bail them out of situations that's gonna fall on Tatum now
24:00 And it's gonna fall on Jaylan too
24:01 But Tatum is gonna take the brunt of that a lot more than anybody else and again
24:06 I as much as everybody else is like more Derek whites good for business more
24:10 Jason Tatum having the ball and him learning how to move the ball is
24:15 Good for business, and if they're really like I have I asked this to several guys so far the summer confident
24:22 Do does Jason Tatum have a nickel the yo-kai's type run in him at any point in his career where he's just like you don't
24:30 Have an answer for him because yo-kai's is not going anywhere
24:33 Okay
24:34 And there's gonna be other guys that come in this league with all the young guys that are coming up that are just gonna become
24:39 bigger problems
24:40 So can my theory on can Jason Tatum?
24:43 be a
24:46 Really tough problem to solve that only happens if he takes a leap as a playmaker and that only happens if he does it more
24:53 And so that's what I see the most
24:55 I think I want to add a little texture to that because I I like agree a hundred percent with what you're saying
25:00 But I I think it's actually
25:02 That that playmaking me. It means getting off the ball
25:06 That's the the thing that's such so genius about yo-kai's is that he gets rid of it like
25:11 And that's like that's where Tatum struggles
25:15 You know like
25:17 I don't remember what the numbers ended up being but at some point late last season
25:22 Tatum was shooting 40% on catch and shoot threes and
25:26 28% off the dribble
25:28 so like all the conversation around the Celtics this summer has been about like Joe wants them to shoot a lot of threes and it's like
25:35 When we when we focus on how many threes they shoot per game
25:38 We're missing the point of like what are those threes are those threes off the dribble?
25:43 Are they like really good wide open catch and shoot looks?
25:47 Are they coming at like?
25:50 With like some time left on the shot clock and it's like a really good look that a player wants to take or is it?
25:56 Like a step back at the end of the shot clock that a player is reluctant to take
25:59 Those things matter a lot and I like what you were saying about getting Tatum in the post part of what I like about him
26:07 In the post so much is that it gets him off the ball
26:09 Like he's got to get rid of it to go get down into the post and then he gets it back and suddenly he's like
26:15 At he's what is he 610?
26:17 Maybe like it feels like he might even be bigger than that at this point
26:20 But he part of what makes him dangerous down there is that he can see over the defense
26:24 All the passes get way easier from there. You can read the double teams
26:28 I would like you know, yo, kitch
26:32 Because he's so willing to like do other parts of the game besides like relying on the three
26:39 He has all these different options available to him
26:42 when he catches the ball at the elbow or wherever the offense can kind of like swirl around him and
26:48 But but where his real power is is in getting rid of it moving without it getting it back in a better place
26:55 And that's the stuff like Tatum. I do think Tatum has that in him
27:01 To be like that big of a problem, but I think you get there by by like giving up control actually
27:09 You're just letting like late let your teammates do the work curry quote that went viral today. No, what was it?
27:16 he's
27:18 Doing his basketball camp and he's speaking to a bunch of campers and he goes the last thing I ever want to see any of
27:23 You do is sit in the perimeter and demand the ball because that is the last line of defense
27:28 I would rather see you do literally
27:30 Anything else on a basketball floor then to sit there and just have your hands out
27:35 like don't ever do that ever and I was like, I hope hope so many people are listening to this because
27:41 My goodness, he's so right like move like cut like set a screen like do this do that like post up do something
27:48 I'm just standing in the perimeter like I got it like throw me the ball. It's just bad
27:51 Well and in poor zingas is defense like obviously I'm down on the idea of trading for poor zingas
27:58 But and I think like, you know people act like the Jays are gonna make his life easier
28:03 He played with Luka Dantzsch who's a player who generally makes life pretty easy for people
28:07 but having said that Luka does control like basically everything and and
28:13 That is a team that's built around the idea of like having guys like Dorian Finney Smith or whoever
28:19 Standing out on the perimeter with their like, you know waiting for the ball without moving
28:24 so, you know, maybe it's
28:27 If the best version of the Celtics is gonna get things moving in a way that's gonna get poor zingas
28:32 Into spots where he can do more damage. So
28:35 Yeah, as we're aware when the Celtics traded for Chris Tass for saying it's even dealing out Marcus smart
28:42 they quickly vaulted from among the favorites to win the championship to the favorite to win the championship if this is
28:48 It's a good moment to take a little time and appreciate our great betting sponsor here
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29:01 Who quit the Hall of Fame game Lee here man? What's up? Basically here basically here Pat's I think preseason game
29:09 I guess Texans is Thursday
29:11 So I'm actually super excited about that football season so I could go up and fan who was giving you the chance to win
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29:42 Kaufman I know you have thoughts on this. I know you have feelings on this
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29:57 It's just who's gonna win a lot of football games. I think Philly's going on a football games and I think my homes just
30:03 Just wins baby just wins a lot of games
30:05 Well, I'll tell you what I was looking at the Chiefs specifically and they they're over unders eleven and a half, which is crazy
30:13 Considering every year Patrick Mahomes has been their starter. They've won 12 to 14, right? So hit the over, baby. I
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31:57 That there will be a quiz at the end of the show. Oh, when are we gonna get one phone number for all these?
32:02 gambling helplines
32:06 Different numbers in different states. I know track at all. Hey, I feel like I'm like traveling around the country when I listen to all this
32:16 So on in the spirit of betting, you know the the team the Celtics
32:24 Leapfrogged if you will into that top spot as as the betting favorite might even be the co-favorite right now
32:29 Denver it's team. Yeah near and dear to your heart nuggets
32:33 Obviously just won the championship with relative ease in general not just against Miami but like all the way through they lost four games
32:40 It was crazy and there there were joy to watch obviously Nicola Jokic is is absolutely incredible. I
32:48 Would wonder if they took a bit of a step back without Bruce Brown
32:53 Obviously, he was a very important player for for that team and he you know, I thought he was gonna stay
32:59 I really did but he you know, I can't blame a guy for cashing in so he went and did that he's got his ring
33:04 Who do you think?
33:07 East or west if you want to boil it down to the east that's fine
33:10 But either you know across the league for the Celtics biggest threats in your mind to win the championship
33:17 I I still think Denver should be like monstrous favorites to win the title. I they have I
33:23 Just think first overall even above Boston. Oh, yeah, that team is like that team's nails. They're not going anywhere that that guy
33:31 Yeah, you know, it's just a major problem that guy is not going anywhere
33:37 But you know, so like I I agree with you about Bruce Brown. I think he's a fantastic player
33:44 I think he was a perfect fit there. I like I think it was a G
33:47 I think his agent was a genius for getting him there in the first place
33:50 like I shouldn't say that maybe it was Bruce Brown who knew that it was a great idea, but
33:55 That's just like the perfect place for him to play I think he's in a good situation for himself still in Indiana
34:02 that's not the question you asked me, but
34:04 Yeah, I think Denver should be like heavy heavy favorites
34:08 And then after that, I think it's the Celtics in the Bucs
34:13 I would have those teams like pretty close in terms of like championship equity to each other. I think
34:18 I think the the Bucs are probably a pretty good bet right now to be honest like the way they went out last year
34:25 Giannis getting hurt in that first round
34:28 Miami kind of catching lightning in a bottle. I I still think that Bucs are like a really really solid team
34:35 I think Malik Beasley is gonna help them a lot
34:40 And then in the West the West is like very very confusing to me
34:45 But but yeah to me it's it's Denver and everybody else I don't really see another team
34:53 like I
34:56 I'm not buying all the Lakers smoke Phoenix. I want to see how it works
35:00 I want to see what it looks like because that's just Phoenix would be the one and a lot of just filler
35:06 Yeah, I mean, I I do think Bradley Beal has become like wildly underrated
35:11 In a way that
35:15 Confuses me a little bit that guy's really good
35:17 And I think they did that they did better than anybody else filling out the roster on the with the minimum contracts
35:25 But I just
35:30 The value, you know, like NBA history is littered with teams that win multiple championships
35:36 There's not a lot of one-offs. It's it's like it's not really the way things work
35:41 and
35:43 I
35:44 Think the 08 Celtics that no, I mean, of course there there's always gonna be examples to the contrary
35:49 There's though for Pistons. There's the 08 Celtics. There's always examples like that
35:53 And and actually different teams have been winning
35:56 in recent years most years
35:59 but
36:01 when a team when a team like when the obvious best player in the league wins the title and
36:06 His team just like they just know what they're doing. That is a team that just has like no questions
36:13 About what kind of basketball they want to play and I would be I'm particularly terrified of them for the way they
36:21 The defense they played in the last couple rounds of the playoffs. They
36:26 They played defense like way above the level of their individual defensive talent
36:33 in a way that makes me feel like
36:35 Those guys are not losing a playoff series for a while if they're healthy
36:38 So, you know injuries can always happen they have guys who know as well as anybody. Yeah, they have guys who are injured
36:45 yeah, they might be on their third title already if
36:47 If Murray and Porter hadn't got hurt a couple years ago, so
36:53 But yeah to me it's like not even close they're the far and away the favorite so I like that you brought up
36:59 the there are team that knows how they want to play because that takes me back to the Celtics and I wonder and
37:07 This is not an intentional indictment of Joe Missoula and the revamp coaching staff. It's more just
37:14 You know, this is a team that's undergone some changes, you know
37:18 Leadership at the top Brad taking over for Danny Joe coming in when he wasn't, you know
37:23 lined up to come in obviously and
37:25 You know, they've made changes around him bringing in veteran additions Sam Cassell Charles Lee and obviously it's no
37:31 Small thing is everybody knows
37:34 Swapping out your longest tenured former defensive player of the year player and Marcus smart and bring in Chris
37:41 That's forcing us who we talked about a lot. Mm-hmm
37:43 I wonder if this team does know how it's going to play because there are obviously the questions
37:48 about the offense and how are they going to
37:52 Adjust while they go to the double big obviously and how will they you know, how will that filter down?
37:57 How are they going to be as reliant on the three as ever before? We've also had guys on that team
38:03 Say just during this offseason even that we got to get back to our identity and our identity is defense and that's what made us
38:10 So successful the year before and we need to you know
38:12 Have more of a balance and that you know
38:14 I I wonder what this looks like when they get going here and if they do not
38:20 I don't want to present this as though they had a bad defense last year. They didn't you know?
38:24 They they had bad moments for sure second best defense in the league though. Yeah
38:30 I mean let them down the playoffs and you know time and time again for sure, but I wonder
38:36 When we really get into it here what this thing looks like and and what you can always tell which side is is a bit
38:42 More of a priority two years ago under email. It was defense last year under Joe. It was offense. What is it this time? I
38:49 mean, I
38:52 Think it has to be
38:54 The defense played I mean like to me they did not lose because they didn't play defense
38:59 They lost because their offense gets bogged down
39:03 When when the when the chips are down when things are hard
39:06 They don't play the way they play
39:08 Like the way this team plays the way this team is designed to play is the way they played for the first couple months of
39:14 last season the balls flying around all those threes that like
39:19 That when they're not wide open looks we start complaining about all the threes, right?
39:23 But like when there's when they're all going in because they're all wide open. There's not like a lot to complain about there
39:31 So I to me I think first of all
39:33 I think
39:34 Missoula was like I think any coach who took over the Celtics last year would have looked at what they did the year before and
39:40 How they lost in the playoffs and said we have to fix this offense
39:44 This is a terrible half-court offense that needs fixing
39:47 The Celtics spent last year having basically the best half-court offense in the NBA
39:52 I mean, I think like I think a lot of the things
39:56 I think they they carved out a way of playing that works the majority of the time
40:02 When it doesn't work for the Celtics is when they're under pressure and that to me is an emotional problem and not like a strategy
40:09 Problem and so I think what it's been three coaches in three years
40:13 And I think in all of those years
40:17 This is like anecdotal but me as someone who watches all the Celtics games and like sees this team on the highs and the lows
40:25 what I notice is a team that
40:27 Has moments where they play this like beautiful sublime basketball that makes me so excited and then for reasons
40:34 I can't really understand they just stopped doing it and when I say Denver knows who they are
40:39 They don't have those moments. They don't have those moments because Jokic doesn't let them have those moments
40:45 He he just plays the way I think the phrase Michael Malone used is that he doesn't fight the game
40:51 that's kind of become the cliche with them, but I think I think it's kind of true like
40:57 If you play differently when there's pressure
41:02 That that doesn't really serve you you have to keep playing your game
41:05 So that to me is the biggest question with them
41:08 Like what can they keep moving the ball when things suck?
41:12 Like when the other team is playing great defense and it's hard and you miss a bunch of shots
41:17 Like will you keep doing the things that made you like overall?
41:22 Have a successful half-court defense over the course of the regular season
41:26 I mean half-court offense the thing that makes it so I don't know if you agree with the set of two and Seth
41:31 I'm sure you do but the the thing that
41:33 Impresses me so much about Nikola Jokic and why I think that he is still somehow
41:39 remarkably underrated by you know, the general NBA watching public is
41:46 And I don't think I'm exaggerating in saying this in the last year two years
41:52 I'm not gonna pretend I you know, I'm watching every Nuggets game on League Pass, but Seth you're watching most of them
41:57 So, you know by all means correct me here. I
42:00 Don't think I've ever seen the guy play a bad game
42:03 Ever because it's like there are games that he doesn't shoot as well. There are games that he doesn't facilitate as well
42:10 There are games. He doesn't rebound as well. There are games. He doesn't score as many
42:13 but he is always
42:16 Over, you know compensating for whatever he's not doing that given night by impacting the game in another way in a very very
42:23 overwhelmingly positive way
42:26 to where when you average it all out, he's just a
42:29 statistical monster
42:31 But it I just I don't
42:33 He is not a guy that like that's why I was so certain the Nuggets were gonna win the title at least over Miami
42:40 And I think they would have beaten Boston - I've said that on the show before
42:43 But I what why I was so certain they were gonna beat the Heat
42:46 Relatively easily was because this is a guy I've never seen him afraid of the moment ever
42:52 He's he's just he
42:56 The great ones can impact a basketball game in many different ways and it's so easy to watch the Oakage do it. It's like and
43:04 That's what was so painful about the rest of the NBA fandom like catching up to how awesome the Oakage is
43:10 It's like guys this has been and it should have been a third straight MVP like I'm great like this is this
43:16 It's been happening for a while now, but it's like the vision
43:20 like he's just like the most fun player to watch like not named Steph Curry and like
43:25 Curry's more fun to watch because he takes 40 footers like he just does things that nobody else really has done for you know
43:33 Yeah, yo kids does like is so different than what we we've become used to in terms of like people taking over
43:40 Games by you know taking the air out of the ball going one-on-one against the defender
43:44 No
43:45 Yo, it's just stuff that just benefits everybody as a whole and what if he shoots it
43:49 It's probably because it's he's supposed to but a lot of times he's looking to create for other
43:53 How do I make my the game easier for everybody else around me?
43:56 And that's clearly his mindset and it's so fun to watch someone play that way like LeBron plays that way
44:03 Yokeish plays that way. Sorry
44:07 Yeah, curry plays that way it's harder for him because he's not as big like the thing about yoga just he's so big
44:12 It's so hard to wrap your mind around like a point guard being seven foot two or whatever. He is like, it's just he's
44:19 he is
44:21 and like again
44:22 like he's just gonna be a problem for a long time because like
44:25 It's not like he's going anywhere like that guy's gonna be good
44:28 Like he's an MVP Kennedy every single year. He steps in the floor
44:32 that the downstream effects of the way he plays are interesting to this is like what
44:37 this is what I dream of for the Celtics is like is is
44:41 the thing about playing with a passer like that is it makes you cut differently
44:47 It makes you it makes your shot different. It makes I mean, there's things
44:51 that can tavious Caldwell Pope, for example, does with the ball
44:55 like just without Yokeish even necessarily being like tangibly involved with the play
45:01 he KCP would not be allowed to do that stuff on a different basketball team.
45:05 He he is able to do it
45:07 precisely because of the like the the gravity of Yokeish,
45:13 but also just like the confidence of knowing that that guy will like if I'm open,
45:18 he's going to give me the ball.
45:19 And if I cut to that spot, he's going to give me the ball.
45:21 And if I if I like miss, he's not going to like
45:24 like roll his eyes at me if I like take a shot and miss it or something like
45:30 that, that he that Yokeish himself actually believes
45:34 he's not the best player on the team. I mean, like I, I get like sort of
45:40 generally in sports, I hate this stuff.
45:43 This like this like touchy feely stuff.
45:45 It like drives me crazy. And I think it's nonsense.
45:47 But he's kind of won me over like
45:50 I would love to see Tatum get there.
45:54 I really think Tatum has it in him.
45:56 And it just it's just like the way he reacts to pressure
45:59 is is to is to to try to control too much.
46:03 He's trying not to let his teammates and he's trying to lift them up.
46:06 But it manifests as like an over like trying to control too much of the game.
46:11 Do you have anything else that you'd like to touch on here
46:16 in this particular show?
46:17 I think we will say that Devin Booker versus Jason Tatum for next week
46:20 is that Matt Moore had that going on today.
46:22 Is that a debate? Good lord.
46:24 I think it's a fascinating debate.
46:26 I will say this, though.
46:27 We did a lot of nuggets talk on this show for a very particular reason.
46:31 And I just hope people understand
46:32 this is a team the Celtics are gunning for.
46:34 Like this is that this is. Yes.
46:37 And to if you're going to make like.
46:39 Every year you go in like art, like this team has to be
46:44 you're not going to win the title if you can't beat this team.
46:46 Right. For a long time, it was you're not going to win the Super Bowl
46:50 if you can't be the Patriots, like you're going to have to figure out
46:52 how to beat that team because they're just going to be there.
46:54 And this is what it is with Denver.
46:56 Like you have to go into every season thinking like we have to be able
47:00 to have a team that can beat Denver because if we can beat Denver,
47:03 you're probably the other team.
47:04 It's not like we're not thinking about the box or the heat or etc.
47:08 in this at the same time.
47:09 But if you don't have the answers for the Denver test,
47:12 then you're not going to win anything.
47:14 And that's why we spend so much time talking about Denver is because
47:18 they're clearly the front runner and Boston is chasing them
47:23 and they have the talent to get there, as Seth said.
47:26 But and you're supposed to steal from the team that won, right?
47:30 Like you're supposed to mimic, like try to mimic what you can mimic.
47:33 They'll be tough, though.
47:35 Yeah. Yeah.
47:37 I'm not sure that the personnel for it, but we'll see.
47:40 I mean, there's there's a reason why everyone calls Yoko a unicorn.
47:44 There's you know, there there is but one.
47:46 I mean, he's he's a generational all time. Great.
47:50 He is, you know, beyond words.
47:53 But yeah, as as well articulated, that's that's why it's
47:58 you know, you can make the Patriots comparison or you could just,
48:01 you know, look in the NBA over the last decade.
48:03 It's whichever team LeBron was playing for or the Warriors.
48:06 Yeah. You know, that's that's what it's been for a long time.
48:09 And so, you know, we're not going to sit here and get.
48:13 Honestly, even and I will sing a different tune
48:17 if the Celtics are playing the heat in the playoffs again because of just PTSD.
48:20 Oh, God, don't even say it.
48:23 Well, what's that? Don't even say it.
48:25 No, I know. But but like I just I don't enter a season thinking about Miami.
48:30 Now, maybe I will change it.
48:32 Like, I'll feel differently if Dame is traded there.
48:34 But like right now, and as as that roster is made up,
48:38 I don't go into the year thinking about Miami.
48:40 I don't go into the year thinking about Philly.
48:42 You know, I I wonder about injury concerns with Milwaukee.
48:46 You know, it's you got to think about, you know, that team.
48:50 And and I say this feeling that.
48:52 What's Celtics over under?
48:54 I think it's fifty four and a half, something like that.
48:57 So I could very easily see them coming under that.
49:01 Like that very easily.
49:03 There there could be, you know, regular season regression out of this team.
49:07 For sure.
49:08 Doesn't mean that they'll fall short in the playoffs, though.
49:10 These are two totally different animals.
49:13 So we got a lot to cover, obviously, in the in the weeks ahead
49:16 as we get closer to training camp and seeing,
49:19 you know, if any additions are made and if there are what they look like,
49:22 we we haven't even touched on the fact that Danilo Gallinari
49:25 has a Celtic circled on his calendar, at least he will.
49:28 Their schedule is out.
49:30 Revenge narrative is hot
49:33 for the former huge Larry Bird fan.
49:36 So we'll see.
49:39 It's going to be interesting year, fun year and a lot to come.
49:42 Thanks to everyone for listening, for putting up with the the growing
49:45 lisp over the course of the show rate review, subscribe to Celtics.
49:49 Beat would greatly appreciate you.
49:51 And Seth, thanks for hopping on, buddy.
49:53 Stick around for invisible chat.
49:56 Go nowhere.
49:59 I'm going to break down the first two weeks and what you
50:02 thanks for having me.
50:06 Oh, of course, have catch you next time.
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