Adam Kaufman and Evan Valenti are joined by Heavy.com's Sean Deveney to discuss the Celtics' next matchup against the Cleveland Cavaliers. They argue that the Cavs don't quite know how to play together, and recall their embarrassing collapse against New York last year, which bodes well for Boston.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 [MUSIC]
00:09 What's up everybody? It's a new Celtics Beat.
00:11 Great to be here with you.
00:13 Thanks for joining us on your Cinco de Mayo.
00:16 You know, however you are celebrating,
00:18 I hope you're working in a little bit of Celtics Beat.
00:21 Hopefully, you worked in some Game 7 between the Cavaliers and Magic,
00:25 which just goes to show exactly how much the NBA cared about this game
00:29 in this series, putting that at 1 o'clock on a Sunday afternoon
00:33 when there's no other game tonight in prime time
00:35 unless they were worried about competing with hockey or regular season baseball,
00:40 and I don't think they were.
00:41 So, that series meant absolute dog crap,
00:44 and that is pretty much the level of respect
00:46 that a lot of Celtics fans are going to have for their next opponent,
00:50 the Cleveland Cavaliers.
00:51 First playoff matchup between these two teams
00:53 since Jason Tatum's rookie year back in 2018.
00:57 Feels like not that long ago that we were seeing the Cavs in the playoffs
01:01 all the time during the rebuild,
01:03 but this is going to be a fun one to preview.
01:07 It is going to be a series that, I don't know,
01:10 I'm curious, obviously, what our panel, our group, is going to have to say about it.
01:15 We have Evan Valente. I'm Adam Kaufman.
01:17 Of course, Sean Devney from Heavy.com.
01:19 You know, I've in the past referred to him as Heavy's Sean Devney,
01:23 which does work, but I gotta tell you, man,
01:25 for people that are watching on the CLNS YouTube page
01:29 versus listening to us in podcast form,
01:31 you are looking svelte, my friend. How are you?
01:35 I'm doing well. Thank you, Adam. Thank you.
01:37 And let's just comment on how great Evan looks as well.
01:41 Everybody's looking good.
01:43 I like the little courtesy there.
01:45 Yeah, everybody is looking good. Thank you.
01:48 I'm the only other one here. Evan looks great.
01:50 Well, you're always like that.
01:51 Everybody looks good.
01:53 I'm terrible. So that's all I'm saying.
01:56 I am a little bit concerned if we're being perfectly honest.
02:00 Again, video. If people are seeing,
02:03 I'm wearing a Patriot sweatshirt and a Red Sox hat.
02:05 If ever there was bad juju going into a next round of teams to be representing right now,
02:11 while we're talking about a Celtics team that is chasing banner 18,
02:14 I'm a little concerned about the wardrobe of choice.
02:17 But look, I was just out in public at a, you know,
02:20 kids soccer game and just trying to stay warm in the cold.
02:22 But guys last show that we did for people out there that are wondering like man,
02:26 it's been in a little bit since you guys did a show
02:29 and it hasn't been any longer normal. It only feels like it
02:31 because the Celtics haven't played since Wednesday when they eliminated the Miami Heat.
02:36 And at that point in time when we did a show,
02:39 I think as it was where the cell that was a 1-1 where the Celtics up to one.
02:44 We were midway through that series and we had Drew Carter on
02:47 and and I said look, I mean the Celtics are still going to maybe it'll go six.
02:52 If the Celtics have another game, they don't take seriously
02:55 or Miami goes absolutely crazy historically shooting the basketball,
02:59 but in all likelihood Caesar going to win this thing in five
03:02 and sure enough, that's what they did. The Heat were completely overmatched Celtics,
03:06 you know took that kind of wake-up call of a game to I guess
03:10 and responded accordingly including in South Beach
03:13 and finish that thing off with relative ease.
03:15 And now you have a Cavaliers team and we were lockstep about this.
03:20 We both wanted Orlando, you know, just to take away the Donovan Mitchell factor.
03:26 We know what he's capable of went for 50 back in game six,
03:29 you know, led his team in a massive comeback today to take game seven,
03:34 but ultimately who cares?
03:38 I mean the the Celtics if they even without even without Chris Dabs
03:42 Porzingis who is not expected to play in this round.
03:44 Maybe that'll change. Hopefully it will they've you know,
03:47 thanks to the Orlando and Cleveland for stretching out their series a little bit
03:52 and given sees that much more rest and time and all of that
03:55 and Porzingis maybe he can get back later in this round.
03:58 We'll see about the severity of the injury that Giannis with the Bucks out never returned from.
04:02 He missed about a month and season over.
04:05 So we don't know we don't know how badly Porzingis is hurting other than the fact
04:09 that everyone around the team seems to believe this is not a season-ending thing.
04:13 And I think when you phrase it that way or frame it that way,
04:17 it means we expect him to come back in the conference finals
04:20 because yes, we are taking our second round opponent for granted
04:23 and that's exactly how I feel and I don't want this whole show to just be like,
04:26 ha ha Cavs who cares but I do believe that this should not be a very compelling series
04:35 whether it was Orlando or Cleveland and maybe Cleveland's a little bit tougher,
04:39 but this is still if the Celtics are who we think they are.
04:42 This should be a series that they win in five,
04:45 maybe six we should not be talking about a seventh game between these two teams regular season meetings Celtics
04:51 had a couple of single-digit wins and then a third game.
04:54 They should have won.
04:55 They were up 20 plus points in the fourth quarter
04:58 and defecated all over themselves and lost that game.
05:01 But Sean, let's start with you.
05:02 We'll hear plenty from Evan.
05:03 I will try and ramble a little bit less.
05:06 What are your thoughts going into this series about the way Boston played in round one
05:10 and what you expect from the Cavaliers?
05:12 Yeah, I thought if you're looking at the way that the Celtics handled round one,
05:17 I thought it went absolutely perfect.
05:19 Like if that was a sweep, then you'd probably be a little worried about this team,
05:25 you know, not having bled, you know, being Ivan Drago a little bit and then,
05:30 you know, you finally see blood and you freak out a little bit.
05:32 That's not the case, you know, they got their clunker out of the way and handled it,
05:38 came back, you know, anybody who was worried about how they would respond,
05:42 they responded just fine.
05:43 They responded really the way that you'd like to see them respond.
05:47 And then on the other side, you've got a team that now is dragging its way
05:51 through a seven-game series, not only lost three games on the road,
05:55 but really was humiliated on the road.
05:58 I mean, Cleveland, you know, especially those first two games in Orlando,
06:02 they lost by a combined, I think it was 61 points in those two games.
06:06 You know, this is a Cleveland team that when you take them out of Cleveland,
06:14 they're really, really bad in the playoffs.
06:17 And then in Cleveland, they're just so, so if you're the Celtics,
06:21 that's a pretty good mix.
06:22 It gives you a pretty good chance to at least win one game in Cleveland
06:26 and really you should be able to beat them twice on your home floor to open this thing up.
06:32 - Yeah, and you have the Jared Allen factor.
06:35 - Yeah, and Jared Allen with that rib injury, you know,
06:38 especially with Porzingis out, that's a benefit for the Celtics, no question.
06:45 And, you know, we'll see how they react, you know, with more time.
06:50 Are they going to stretch Al out a little bit?
06:53 You know, is it time to have him go, you know, past 25 minutes more consistently,
06:59 you know, with Porzingis out?
07:01 Do they need to?
07:02 You know, would they rather just kind of keep him in that box
07:05 or do you start stretching him out now that we're getting closer to, you know,
07:10 deeper into the playoffs, closer to when you might want to be able to use him more?
07:15 That's going to be something to keep an eye on as well.
07:18 So, yeah, I think this is as good a matchup as you can get for the Celtics.
07:24 It should be.
07:25 When you look at that offense, they should be very much able to handle the Cleveland offense,
07:30 which really, really struggled in that opening round.
07:34 And really, you know, if you watch the first half of game seven,
07:39 you would think that this Cleveland team, you know, how are they in the playoffs?
07:42 They were so bad.
07:44 But yeah, so if you're in the Celtics, I think you got to feel pretty good,
07:48 certainly about where you are right now.
07:50 No question.
07:51 When you look at that, they're in the regular season.
07:53 I just want to bring it up here.
07:54 It's not like the Cavs were some world beaters at home.
07:57 26 and 15 at home this year, 22, 19 on the road.
08:01 Boston, obviously, what, 37 and four at home and insane record.
08:04 So, you know, Boston shouldn't have any problems playing in Cleveland.
08:08 The Dean Wade game aside, I hate and I think again, if it were,
08:13 if that happens again in this in this series, I think Joe Mazzola
08:15 and the rest of the Celtics have a plan for Dean Wade.
08:17 It's probably called put, you know, drew holiday on him.
08:19 We'll see in terms of the opponent here.
08:23 It's it's yeah for Boston.
08:24 It matches up quite nicely for them.
08:27 You look at what Cleveland does in terms of like guys getting downhill.
08:31 Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, those two guys.
08:34 Well, you know, look, I'm not saying I'm not trying to see the magic
08:37 aren't a good defensive team.
08:38 They are a very good defensive team.
08:39 That's actually one of the reasons why they were such a pain and they
08:41 asked for a lot of teams towards the end of the season.
08:44 Jonathan Isaac had a great defensive season.
08:46 Jalen Suggs just an absolute pest as a disruptive guard, but you're
08:53 going to meet two different guys here with Derek White and true holiday.
08:56 They're going to be really, really difficult for this matchup.
08:59 Like that's that's the thing to me when you looked at playing Orlando
09:02 versus playing Cleveland.
09:03 The only thing that I really cared about was yeah, I'd rather play
09:06 Orlando because they don't have Donovan Mitchell who was a proven
09:09 playoff performer, you know, the bubble playoffs where he just went
09:14 bananas every single game.
09:15 He's had a lot of big games already here in these playoffs.
09:18 Like he's a he's no question a tough guy to stop and it's just going
09:21 to be about stopping the other guys.
09:23 You know, you can't you're not going to you're not going to be able
09:25 to live with you know, Donovan only scoring 20, but everybody else
09:29 pouring in, you know, it's going to be very similar to you know,
09:32 playing Miami where you know, you have Miami couple of focal points
09:36 Bam out of bio Tyler hero.
09:38 It's those two guys, you know, you try and limit that but it did you
09:41 can't let the Caleb Martins and and the Haywood Highsmiths and the
09:45 Jaime hot cats is heat up, you know, that's going to be it's not going
09:49 to end well for you.
09:50 So Boston, I think, you know getting the Miami demons out of the way
09:54 as you said getting, you know, cut once a little bit in that series
09:57 on an other world issue night by Miami, you know, I think this team
10:01 is differently focused, right?
10:03 It just feels a little different coffin.
10:05 I mean, you've been paying attention to some of the quotes have come
10:07 out, you know from post games and you know during the week with this
10:11 Boston team just feels a little bit more professional.
10:13 They know that they need to get this done quickly to save everybody's
10:17 legs and you look at a Cleveland team.
10:19 I just don't see outside of Donovan Mitchell going for 60 or something
10:23 or some of the other players having a crazy night.
10:25 I don't see it really being that difficult for Boston again coffin.
10:29 The only thing I'd be worried about is the inevitable Max Struce
10:33 crazy game where he hits seven to nine from three-point range.
10:37 Well, see that's what I was just going to bring up.
10:39 How many times in the last series did I refer on this show to the
10:42 ghost of Max Struce when talking about, you know, Miami Heat PTSD
10:47 and I was never really worried about that series because it was no
10:50 Jimmy Butler.
10:51 You put Jimmy Butler into that series then sure.
10:53 I'm going to have a level of concern that just never existed.
10:56 Otherwise, but you know, Caleb Martin wasn't going to do what he
10:59 did last year.
11:00 He had the one game but I just kept talking about the ghost of Max
11:04 Struce and who was going to be that guy.
11:06 What was it going to be Hawkeyes?
11:07 Was it going to be Jovich?
11:09 Was it going to be Duncan Robinson?
11:11 Well now we actually have Max Struce.
11:13 He is, you know, this is you talk about warding off the Miami demons.
11:17 Well, we're not done with that yet.
11:19 We're still warding off Miami demons because Struces in this
11:23 series and I do feel like and I'm not saying that Struce is going
11:26 to win this series for the Cavs.
11:29 But the reason I said Celtics in all likelihood take care of the
11:32 Cavs in five or six is because I don't believe it'll be a sweep
11:36 because I do think there's going to be a Max Struce game and I
11:40 think at some point that like that's going to be enough because
11:43 he can't do it alone.
11:44 Max Struce isn't going to drop 40 in a game in the Celtics still
11:47 win it.
11:47 There's going to be a crazy Max Struce game where he goes for
11:50 30 points and they win that game.
11:52 I just fully expect it.
11:54 I am I am fully believing that that is going to happen.
11:57 I would love to be wrong.
11:58 It's not like he went nuclear and in the first round against
12:01 Orlando, but it's like he's saving himself for his former team
12:04 that decided to keep, you know, Javante green or whoever it was
12:08 around ahead of him.
12:09 So that is, you know, my expectation but you know, you bring
12:13 up before I don't remember if this was on the air off the air
12:16 at this point in time, but you were talking about just kind of
12:18 how weird the the mix of this roster is for the Cavaliers and
12:22 sort of all right on a game-to-game basis.
12:24 What do you expect from somebody like a Harris Levert or Darius
12:29 Garland, you know, and and I I think so much of it is the Jared
12:33 Allen factor and we don't know the severity obviously of his
12:36 injury if he plays you, you know, like Donovan is going to be
12:40 Donovan at least he should be but outside of him if Jared Allen
12:44 slides in you know, it alters obviously the way they use Evan
12:49 Mobley and you know, like he could be free-ranging he'll he'll
12:53 live out around the perimeter a little bit more put up some
12:55 threes if he's unavailable.
12:56 He is exclusively in the paint and doing nothing else and that's
12:59 you know, great, but when Allen's not there and you're looking
13:04 for another potential scoring threat and Mobley is a very
13:07 inconsistent scoring threat all of a sudden Garland does become
13:11 you know, a guy who can go crazy like there was a game the
13:14 other day.
13:15 I think it was a game six game five game six one of those, you
13:19 know, I take the under on Darius Garland 16 and a half points
13:23 dude drop 17 in the opening quarter.
13:25 So he is fully capable of having these stretches where it can
13:31 be a one-two show with Donovan Mitchell.
13:34 And so I don't want to make light.
13:37 I didn't think a whole lot of Miami from a depth perspective
13:40 Cavaliers depending on who's available.
13:43 I'm willing to take more seriously in that way.
13:45 The thing is with this team and I am not nearly as high on this
13:49 team as I was last year when they went down early against
13:52 the Knicks this team the whole second half of the season guys
13:55 guys have just been in and out of the lineup and and inconsistent
13:58 rotations and you just don't know from a game-to-game basis
14:01 who is going to play and I feel like we're kind of still there
14:05 because of Allen.
14:06 Yeah, so, you know, I don't know.
14:08 I mean, what is it take in your mind Sean for Cleveland to
14:11 actually give Boston a series?
14:14 Yeah, you know, it's it's it's a good but Cleveland actually
14:18 reminds me a little bit of the Celtics a few years ago and
14:23 maybe even just like two or three years ago.
14:25 Sometimes it still comes up now where they get into where
14:30 Garland and and Mitchell can't both play well together.
14:35 It's one or the other, you know, and and one's going to be
14:39 ball dominant.
14:39 Usually it's it's Donovan Mitchell and then and then if
14:42 Mitchell's not then then Garland can they don't know, you know,
14:47 even two years into this thing.
14:48 They don't know how to play together.
14:49 I mean those those that's that's that's really we watch this
14:52 team. That's what you come out with is that you know, these
14:55 are two stars who you can understand why Cleveland made
14:58 the trade to get Donovan Mitchell to begin with, you know,
15:01 they had a star he was available.
15:04 They could get them, you know, maybe you convince them to
15:06 stay maybe everything works out.
15:08 It hasn't quite worked out and probably not going to say
15:11 everybody knows that on that team.
15:12 I think that's a black cloud looming over that team as well.
15:16 So yeah, you know, I think they're starting from that from
15:19 that from that standpoint, but having said that look, you
15:23 know, when they play with some pace when they play with in
15:26 transition a little bit they can be dangerous.
15:29 They do have young guys that run.
15:31 They don't run enough in my opinion and and really if you
15:34 watch the second half of game seven, they're really at the
15:38 end of the second quarter is when they started to get much
15:40 more aggressive and they started to to let their offense
15:44 really get out and and get some early offense.
15:48 They need to be able to do that.
15:50 That's that's where they can be a little bit dangerous.
15:53 But when they settle in to play off basketball and play just
15:56 half court, which is you know, what the bulk of this series
16:00 is going to be then then, you know, they really really
16:03 struggle. They've got to be able to get out and run and
16:06 get both of those guys involved that like I said two years
16:10 in they haven't figured out how to do that.
16:12 But if they can unlock that a little bit in this series,
16:15 they become a much more dangerous team.
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17:35 Yeah, and the thing is I like the way that Kaufman brought
17:39 up the last time we saw the Cavs in the playoffs.
17:43 I got absolutely punked by the Knicks and just weren't
17:47 ready and weren't physical enough for that entire series
17:50 and I just go to that particular point in general, right?
17:53 How do you try and keep the Cavs out of transition?
17:55 Well, it's the offensive glass as much as possible.
17:58 Obviously make your shots is a big one of those.
18:01 But but crash the glass as much as humanly possible and
18:04 try and out physical Cleveland.
18:06 I mean, I know Boston doesn't have the Mitchell Robinson
18:09 or I say a Harden Stein like they don't have that guy download
18:13 of bang bodies, but neither does Cleveland really.
18:16 I mean, they're not a great regular season rebounding team.
18:19 Boston was the second best rebounding team in the league
18:23 this year versus Cleveland, which was more towards the
18:25 middle of the pack and without Jared Allen there.
18:27 It's just going to be really hard for Cleveland to try
18:29 and control the glass in in try and steal some possessions,
18:33 right? Like when you're a team like Cleveland and you're
18:36 fighting an uphill battle against a team like Boston,
18:38 who's just got way more talent than you, you're gonna have
18:40 to steal possessions.
18:41 And I just if if Cleveland can't get out in transition
18:44 and can't control the glass, then there's just not a lot
18:47 of opportunities for the only opportunity would be is if
18:50 you can force Boston and turn the ball over a ton and
18:53 I just don't know if Cleveland has defensive horses for
18:56 that kind of game.
18:57 Like I don't think Cleveland has, you know, like if they
19:00 had an Alex Caruso type of guy where he can maybe, you
19:03 know, pressure the guards a little bit for Boston and
19:06 make them a little uncomfortable, right?
19:08 You know, the wing defense Isaac Coro is a decent wing
19:12 defender, but like, you know, outside of him, they don't
19:15 have anybody that can really check Jason Tatum or Jalen
19:17 Brown. So, you know, Mobley is going to be a huge part
19:20 of this series.
19:21 Like Sean, I don't know if he's ready for that.
19:23 He's a younger guy.
19:25 He really has a lot of those potential.
19:27 He's as an offensive threat defensively.
19:29 He can be kind of special, but he's going to have to
19:31 make up for a ton of just not great defenders on the
19:36 perimeter, right?
19:37 Like everything is to be followed towards him.
19:39 And I think Boston can easily take advantage of that.
19:41 Yeah, and I just I you know, if you're asking a guy his
19:44 age who kind of came in and you know, when you look
19:47 he's got a weird career because Mobley came in and
19:50 everybody was like, so he looked so good early on and
19:53 he's just sort of stayed there.
19:55 Maybe even dipped a little bit, you know, he's never
19:57 really exploded.
19:58 I think the way that that you might have wanted.
20:02 I think part of that is the fact that they went out
20:03 and got Donovan Mitchell.
20:04 I do think that stunted his growth offensively that
20:07 maybe there was some harm done there.
20:09 We'll see how that works out.
20:11 But but yeah, Mobley's definitely and I think Okoro
20:14 could be an interesting. Okoro did a really good job
20:17 against Franz Wagner in the Orlando series.
20:21 And so, you know, if he can do that kind of, you know,
20:25 he's not a great offensive player, obviously, but he
20:28 can he can do some damage on the defense event.
20:32 We'll see, you know, obviously it's a much different
20:35 Wagner to Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum is a much different
20:39 assignment.
20:40 So that's going to be a real challenge, but I think
20:43 he's an interesting guy to watch as well because he
20:47 did have success defense.
20:48 I think it's a plus 34 in game seven and was a real
20:52 factor in the fact that that Wagner went one for 15
20:56 from the field.
20:57 You know, that was that was in large part to to Okoro.
21:01 So I wonder if he's going to be able to have any kind
21:04 of impact and you know, he got the starting nod when
21:07 when when Alan went out, they went small with Okoro.
21:11 I wonder how they handle that next time around.
21:13 I think I think old friend Mook Morris got a start
21:17 in there as well, but they they quickly went away
21:19 from that.
21:20 I don't know why they but they did even freaking Tristan
21:24 Thompson getting minutes.
21:26 Yeah, Kristen.
21:26 Who would have thought more Celtics ghosts ghosts of
21:31 Celtics past that we're going to be seeing in this
21:34 one. So look, I mentioned earlier that Chris Taff's
21:38 for Zing.
21:38 It's not like we hood is not going to play in this
21:40 series at least based on the reporting that was out
21:42 there most recently from Chris Haynes over at Turner
21:44 and the series begins on Tuesday.
21:46 If you're wondering when any games are taking place,
21:49 they start Tuesday in Boston at that point in time.
21:51 They are every other day until the series is over.
21:53 So figure it out for yourself.
21:55 But when it comes to porzingis, I think it's it's
21:58 sort of twofold.
21:59 I think the three of us could probably agree that
22:02 you do not need Chris Taff's for Zing is to win this
22:04 series. You are a good enough team that you know,
22:07 you really shouldn't have a problem independent of
22:10 his availability.
22:11 That's one half of it though.
22:13 The other half is just Chris Taff's for Zing is how
22:18 much does he make your life easier or is he not as
22:21 relevant in a matchup like this specifically because
22:24 we know Sean like he's he's not the kind of guy.
22:26 I don't want to dismiss him.
22:27 I thought he had a great regular season.
22:29 He was really solid before he went down in the playoffs,
22:31 but he's you know, in in a matchup like this against
22:35 a team like this.
22:35 Yes, he's a big guy, but he's not that big body
22:39 that it's going to, you know, bang down low with
22:42 Allen or Mobley and be muscling for rebounds and
22:44 all that's not his game, which is not a criticism.
22:47 It's just not who he is.
22:48 So by not having him available, I don't think you're
22:51 losing a whole lot other than obviously another
22:54 scoring option.
22:55 It thins out your depth.
22:56 You brought up the Horford point where you know,
22:58 should should they be stretching him out?
22:59 My answer to that by the way is absolutely not.
23:02 No, do not.
23:03 I don't want Horford playing more than 25 minutes
23:07 because I want him as fresh as possible as long
23:10 as possible because we don't know if and when
23:12 Porzingis is coming back.
23:13 So go to Cornette and go to you know, Tillman and
23:17 go to Ada go like go to these other guys.
23:20 I don't want to see Horford any more than we have
23:21 to because I don't want him to fall apart the way
23:25 he did at the end of the playoff run last year.
23:27 We're just age and fatigue got the best of him.
23:30 So on but on the Porzingis point, how do you feel
23:33 about sort of his importance to a series like this?
23:36 Yeah, and you know, the thing that he does of
23:38 course is he stretches out your defense and and
23:41 and Al can do that too.
23:43 And and so I don't think they'll necessarily lose
23:46 that with with having Al out there more, you know,
23:50 forcing either either Mobley or Allen when he plays
23:53 to come out to the perimeter and and you know,
23:57 kind of juggle up your defense that way.
23:59 But the thing that Porzingis does that he's done
24:03 all season and I think he's one of the top two
24:05 or three players in the league at post-up points
24:08 is that when when when the Celtics three-pointers
24:12 aren't working, you know, you'd like to see them
24:15 attack the basket, but the other weapon that they
24:17 can play is is they can post up Porzingis and
24:20 he's still very very effective at that and running
24:24 those plays.
24:25 So not having that against Cleveland again, is
24:28 it really going to be a difference maker?
24:31 Probably not.
24:32 But that is a card that they've that they've been
24:34 able to play that really none of the big guys
24:36 that they have besides Porzingis can do that.
24:38 So so that's something that'll that'll at least
24:41 be missing but I would rather have that, you know,
24:44 against the Knicks against the Nuggets than
24:46 worry about it against Cleveland.
24:48 Yeah, it's it's it's a size thing.
24:51 I again if Cleveland's not going to have Jared
24:53 Allen the more size you have the better you're
24:54 going to be and the fact that Porzingis stretches
24:57 you all the way up to three-point range.
24:58 It's going to make Mobley cover the whole floor
25:00 and Al Horner's going to do that too.
25:02 So it's not really a huge deal.
25:03 I wonder how they match Horford and Mobley minutes
25:06 to maybe try and get Mobley's a young kid.
25:09 So I don't think he's going to worry about tiring
25:10 out but you know, just to see make him uncomfortable
25:12 make him guard the whole floor and then after
25:14 that, you know, Boston can take advantage of some
25:17 of the size they have at the wing position is
25:19 specifically.
25:20 I mean, Jason Tatum was unbelievable rebound of
25:23 the basketball against Miami and he was unbelievable.
25:26 That's the biggest growth.
25:28 I think you've seen of him both that and I
25:30 guess the playmaking too, but I mean, he's just
25:31 been a dominant rebounder all season long and it
25:34 seems like it's something that he takes a lot
25:36 of pride in.
25:36 So, you know, as long as Boston controls the glass
25:39 whether they had Porzingis or not, of course,
25:40 I guess is not a guy that hits the glass a ton,
25:42 you know, I mean for a guy at seven feet
25:44 foot three.
25:45 That's really not his expertise.
25:47 He can defend the rim a little bit as a rim
25:50 protector, but not a huge rebounding guy, you
25:52 know Tatum, I believe just on top of my head
25:55 led the team rebounds this year, which wasn't
25:57 shocking to me at all.
25:58 And it's going to be more important with
26:00 Porzingis out to just, you know, take care of
26:02 the rebounds, take care of the glass as you
26:04 know, whether it's Hauser or there it's Cornette.
26:06 I'm curious Kaufman if you think that's going
26:08 to be more Cornette or more Tillman in this
26:10 series because I could advocate for both of
26:12 them. I think yeah, I I'm inclined to say
26:15 Cornette just because he was a bigger part of
26:17 the team throughout the season, but obviously
26:19 Tillman was a late addition.
26:20 So, you know has had to kind of earn his
26:22 minutes a little more slowly even still we saw
26:25 more Cornette in round one than we did Tillman,
26:27 but that could flip man.
26:29 I mean, it's that's the thing with Joe and
26:31 sort of, you know, and there's an element of
26:33 unpredictability there where he's going to go
26:35 on feel with some of that stuff and we can
26:38 get Sean's thoughts on it also, but the I'm
26:40 really glad you brought up Tatum because I
26:42 think an interesting thing that we haven't
26:44 gotten to yet and we were talking about this
26:46 have on our, you know, text thread relating
26:48 to just that first round series and what was
26:51 most impressive and yes Tatum on the glass
26:53 for sure, but I feel like I wasn't as wowed
26:57 by that. He averaged 10 and a half and that's
26:59 great, you know, spur, you know for a guy who's
27:01 not a quote-unquote big but I wasn't as wowed
27:04 by it because I do feel like historically when
27:06 the moments get bigger and and you need Tatum
27:09 to play more of a role in the glass. He does,
27:12 you know last year like he in the playoffs
27:14 20 games. He averaged 10 and a half rebounds.
27:16 So I feel like we've seen that version of Tatum
27:19 already. What really jumps out is, you know,
27:23 really it's two things and and one of these
27:25 you brought up and one our buddy Seth brought
27:27 up the one you brought up is the fact that
27:29 in the first series, he only took 15 shots per
27:32 game, which is down from his 20 average during
27:35 the postseason last year. It was a lot more
27:37 ball movement. It was a lot less forcing shots,
27:40 it was, you know, off ball Tatum and and the
27:43 and this kind of goes hand in hand if he has
27:46 the ball in his hands less obviously, but he
27:49 only turned the ball over 1.8 times per in that
27:53 first series, which is down from 2.8 last year
27:57 4.2 the year before when he turned the ball over
27:59 a thousand times in the playoffs. He and Brown
28:02 both on the way to losing in the finals to
28:05 the Warriors when that was a true problem. But
28:08 this 1.8 of all his playoff runs. He's been
28:10 the playoffs every year since he came in the
28:12 league in 2017. The 1.8 granted. We're only
28:15 talking about a five-game sample right now is
28:18 the least that he has ever had on average in
28:20 the playoffs. So, you know, he's there's a
28:23 maturity of growth the development there
28:25 obviously in part, but also it just feels a
28:28 little less frantic Sean a lot more in control.
28:32 Yeah, and and and I think that that's maturity.
28:35 I think there's a lot of growth there in terms
28:37 of understanding that, you know, I don't have
28:41 to go out and force this shot in the next shot
28:44 in the next shot that that you know, especially
28:46 when you've got Derek White score in the way
28:49 that he can and you have Port Zangas at least
28:52 for the first part of that series, you know,
28:54 you had so many weapons out there that you know,
28:57 he took sort of what Miami's defense was giving
29:00 him and really helped pick them apart. And you
29:03 know, when you have the number of weapons that
29:05 the Celtics have you have that you have that
29:07 ability to do that. So I'm curious to see how
29:10 Cleveland handles that, you know, will they
29:12 will they throw extra bodies at Tatum? Will
29:15 they will they treat him like he's the one
29:17 we've got to stop and if everybody else beats
29:20 us, that's fine that hasn't worked against
29:22 the Celtics. If you leave Tatum single-covered
29:24 and and and just kind of stick with Isaac
29:26 O'Coro on him or whoever it's going to be that's
29:29 not going to work either. So, you know, he really
29:32 does make you pick your poison and I'm interested
29:36 to see I thought Miami with the way they handled
29:38 him. They were trying to get the ball out of his
29:40 hands and he said, okay, I've got guys who can
29:42 handle that. We'll see how Cleveland handles
29:44 that. I imagine they'll probably try something
29:47 close to the same thing. But but you know, again,
29:51 I think eventually that the Celtics will play
29:55 well enough to where they force an adjustment
29:57 back to trying to trying to guard everybody
30:00 else and pay attention to everybody else.
30:01 Yeah, the least amount of shots is is huge and
30:05 like that's a wonderful thing to have. I mean
30:08 if Tatum doesn't have to score the ball a ton
30:09 for them to win games, that's huge. That's what
30:11 you want. I mean, that's the the I'm not trying
30:13 to go apples to apples here because you can't
30:15 but the thing that makes Jokic so dangerous is
30:18 like he doesn't have to score points to have a
30:20 huge impact on the basketball game and that's
30:22 that's the true for me. Like that's the true
30:26 tier of a superstar of can you impact the game
30:28 and a couple different ways without just scoring
30:30 the ball and Tatum's defense can allow him to
30:33 do that. No question. His rebounding ability
30:35 can allow him to do that. But the playmaking is
30:37 the huge thing and you know, you had the clip
30:40 resurface of Andre Godala explaining, you know,
30:43 the Tatum rules to Tatum right in front of him
30:47 like, hey, you know when you had this many
30:49 dribbles, this is what we would do. And if when
30:50 they had this much time up in the cloud, we
30:53 would do this to me like they know all these
30:54 things to confuse him. I'm going to be honest
30:56 with you. I don't think Cleveland's going to
30:57 be that complicated with it. I don't think
30:59 they have Tatum rules. I think they're going
31:01 to be a little a little easier to dissect and
31:04 I again give Tatum a lot of credit. There was
31:06 a couple of different plays that come to mind.
31:09 But my favorite one was when he was basically
31:10 triple teamed with Hawkins on the weak side
31:14 and Tatum instead of trying to play one on
31:16 three was like fine. If you're going to put
31:17 three guys on me, I am very very willing to
31:20 just give it to Derek White or you know, have
31:23 him swing the ball and attack, you know,
31:26 basically five on three the rest of the time
31:29 or four on three the rest of the time.
31:30 It's that's the kind of stuff from Tatum. If
31:32 you want to really look at his maturation and
31:36 his growth, that's the biggest area and if he's
31:37 doing that kind of stuff, then it's going to
31:39 be curtains for a lot of teams golfing. It's going to be curtains for a lot of teams.
31:44 Without a doubt. It's I'm fascinated to see obviously
31:48 how it plays out and I just feel like I look
31:50 I said this I've said this on previous shows.
31:53 I've been very consistent about this. I thought
31:55 the Bucks were going to go down entering the
31:57 series without Giannis and then Dame's hurt.
31:59 Please like no chance and I felt the Sixers
32:02 were going to go down on night looking ahead.
32:05 Now, as I said last show, you know before those
32:08 series ended. I feel like we were on a collision
32:10 course for the Celtics and Knicks to meet in
32:12 the conference finals for a chance to go to the
32:13 NBA finals and I just think that is going to
32:16 be if we get there. Barring something funky
32:19 happening along the way a wildly compelling
32:23 series for so many reasons on and off the floor,
32:26 you know on on court. Obviously the you know,
32:29 we already know about the Celtics but Jalen
32:31 Brunson what he has become. I mean he is
32:34 legit. I mean this is I offer him more respect
32:37 than the whole like playoff Jimmy Butler thing
32:39 because Brunson does it during the regular
32:41 season to he is morphed into that guy and and
32:46 of course just the Boston New York thing, you
32:48 know, as far as you know, the fan bases and and
32:50 the you know, the Bing Bong history and all of
32:52 that's like this is great. I can't I really hope
32:55 that we get there but in you know, without
32:57 projecting ahead and just talking about what
33:00 we do have in front of us here that we do know
33:03 we talk about this series. What about the other
33:05 half there? Do you expect Sean the the Knicks
33:08 to not roll the Pacers? I don't want to
33:11 disrespect Indiana. I do like that team, but
33:14 ultimately I just think the Knicks are strong
33:17 enough and I mean that in both ways. I mean
33:20 in the you know, the literal physicality and
33:23 how they play but also just the way that roster
33:25 is built and Tibbs is going to run those guys
33:28 into the ground. So, you know what the rotation
33:29 is going to look like obviously, but do you
33:31 expect the next to you know, maybe in a hard
33:35 fought gritty series get that done or do you
33:37 think the Pacers have a chance to emerge there?
33:39 Yeah, I mean if you're if you're the Celtics,
33:42 I think that you couldn't have picked a better
33:44 opponent for the Knicks to have than the Pacers
33:46 because they're going to run them up and down
33:48 and and they're going to they're going to do
33:50 their best to wear them out that team really
33:53 likes to likes to get up and down and you know,
33:56 that's that's that's going to be a difficult
33:59 matchup for the Knicks just because of the speed
34:02 that that that Indiana is going to want to play
34:05 and and you know, the the Pacers, you know,
34:09 obviously not having Giannis in there that
34:12 that really the Bucks were doomed because of
34:15 that, but I think that might have been a better
34:17 series than than a lot of people thought even
34:20 if Giannis had been healthy just because of a
34:23 the style of play that the that the Bucks have
34:25 and then be you know, if you watch that series,
34:28 I mean Miles Turner for instance was terrific
34:30 and and you know, they got a lot of performances
34:33 if Miles Turner was going to play that way
34:35 with Giannis on the floor and that still was
34:37 going to be a you know, competitive series.
34:39 So I think there's some some guys out there
34:42 that that maybe aren't getting enough attention
34:45 that that are going to give the Knicks some
34:47 trouble of obviously good Halliburton.
34:49 You've got Siakam, but some of those role
34:51 players with with Indiana, you know, they're
34:53 pretty dangerous and and and I think that
34:56 you know, you're probably looking at certainly
34:59 a six game series here.
35:01 If not, you can see this going seven.
35:03 We'll see.
35:04 I don't know.
35:04 I the next are going to be really physical
35:06 and I'm not quite sure if a lot of those
35:09 Indiana guys are ready for I mean Pascal
35:11 Siakam has a ton of playoff experience.
35:12 So that's going to help.
35:14 I think he might be the sneaky X Factor in
35:16 that series.
35:17 Turner obviously with his ability to stretch
35:18 the floor is going to be fun.
35:19 But sometimes when that goes really small
35:21 like Siakam at the five, they can be even
35:25 more dangerous because how much they can
35:26 spread you out.
35:27 It's going to be fun.
35:28 I think it's going to be a good one.
35:29 You know, I do think it's going to be a
35:31 good one.
35:32 You know, I do think we're on a collision
35:33 course much like coffee.
35:34 Yeah, they're one of those teams.
35:36 I've in that that you know when they get
35:37 hot from the three-point line and especially
35:39 corner threes, I love corner threes.
35:41 If they're making corner threes and it's
35:43 like they're really hard to beat so I can
35:45 imagine them having at least two games
35:47 where where they're just making those shots
35:49 and and you know, we're looking at a six
35:51 game series because the way they're shooting
35:53 is there's not much you can do.
35:55 Quick break from today's show to tell you
35:57 today's show is brought to you by game time
36:00 the NBA playoffs here.
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37:47 So on the other side in the Western Conference,
37:50 I think in many ways it is more interesting
37:54 less predictable, you know barring obviously
37:57 like in the East things could could get messed
37:59 up with injuries obviously, but as we know
38:02 it right now, I feel like you know, we expect
38:05 Boston New York in the West though, man, like
38:08 I I did not handicap this one.
38:11 Well, I thought the Thunder were going to win.
38:13 I didn't think it was going to be nearly that
38:16 easy, you know to sweep, you know, youngest
38:19 team on in the playoffs obviously to dominate
38:24 the way that they did.
38:25 I mean, it's this team we knew like, all right
38:28 couple years like this is going to be a real
38:29 threat to win a championship, but maybe they're
38:32 there already.
38:32 I mean, maybe they they need to be respected
38:35 on that level now and they're going to have
38:37 Luca Kyrie and and the Mavericks on the other
38:40 side a team that you know, really I'm not
38:43 surprised that they took care of the Clippers
38:45 expected that to happen.
38:47 But you know now I think we're going to get
38:48 a series there and the most interesting one
38:51 is obviously Minnesota and Denver with the
38:53 defending champs facing a team that I thought
38:56 Minnesota was going to lose to Phoenix going
38:58 into the series, you know, long series seven
39:00 game series, but I thought Durant and Booker
39:03 and feel like they'd get the job done.
39:05 Nope, Minnesota a four-game sweep.
39:08 No problem.
39:09 Anthony Edwards is yes as the kids say today
39:12 guys. He is him.
39:13 He's unreal.
39:14 He has been unbelievable so far in the play
39:18 a 22 year old kid straight out of the movie
39:20 hustle. Just just raking everybody over the
39:23 coals takes game one and owns it and there
39:27 are a lot of people that were going into this
39:29 series that were expecting or betting on
39:32 Minnesota to win maybe because of the value in
39:36 the number or or just you know, looking at
39:38 their regular season matchups and saying,
39:39 all right, they split to to these teams can
39:41 play. I just sort of assumed that yo kitch
39:45 and the Nuggets the defending champs like
39:47 they're they're on another level. They're
39:49 the best team in the NBA. All due respect
39:51 Celtics fans. I think very highly of the Denver
39:53 Nuggets if they go down and look, it's only
39:57 one nothing who knows but if they go down to
39:59 Minnesota that to me in a very favorable way
40:03 for the Boston Celtics opens up the West
40:06 dramatically. I'm curious Sean and Evan both,
40:09 you know, how you guys see that conference
40:12 impacting, you know, if we're projecting way
40:15 ahead impacting, you know, the the Eastern
40:18 entrant in the NBA finals. Yeah. I mean, I
40:22 nobody wants to play Denver. If you're an
40:24 Eastern conference team, especially, you know,
40:27 going into their building is just it's different
40:30 because of the altitude. It's not something
40:32 that if you play in the East your whole career
40:34 that you do that money do it once a year and
40:37 you know, so that's something that that is
40:39 it's sort of a built-in advantage for for the
40:42 Nuggets. Not only, you know, it helps to have
40:45 yo kitch, of course, and then Jamal Murray
40:47 and guys like that, but but yeah, and so
40:51 whoever wins the East, I think you don't want
40:53 to see Denver, obviously, you know, a team like
40:57 Oklahoma City a team like Minnesota coming in.
41:01 I thought both of those teams would be at a
41:03 severe disadvantage like you did because of the
41:05 lack of playoff experience. I think both of
41:08 those have have pretty well thumbed their nose
41:10 at it and you know, Oklahoma City's favorite
41:13 to beat Dallas and and and I kind of agree
41:16 with that. I kind of can see that. So yeah,
41:19 you know, if you're if you're an Eastern
41:21 Conference team, I think you're looking at this
41:23 and you definitely don't want Denver, but then
41:26 you start looking at what the other options are.
41:28 Do you want Anthony Edwards? You know, that's
41:31 not that's not great either and they want
41:33 Oklahoma City, you know with the young talent
41:35 that they have in the end and the wave of players
41:38 are able to throw a really good players that
41:40 they're able to throw at you. Not sure. I want
41:42 them either. So yeah, it's a it's a much
41:44 different. It's a much different ball of wax
41:47 in the in the West. No question. I do think
41:50 though that if it's not Denver, I think that
41:53 if you're the Celtics or or Knicks or whoever
41:56 I think you're probably happy to not have to
41:58 go into Denver and play the Nuggets. Yeah,
42:01 and the out this this Wolves team though. I'm
42:03 just going to this. They're really really tough
42:05 defensively and they have a ton of size and
42:08 they have a ton of size everywhere and you
42:11 know with Mike Conley there to kind of run
42:13 the show when things get a little hectic is
42:15 a huge huge huge value for Minnesota and with
42:18 cringe Chris Finch, you know ailing they can
42:20 still be a really tough team. I love the way
42:24 ants play in but it's there's other guys to
42:26 like Nas. I'm a huge Nas Reed fan. He's a
42:29 spectacular player that having a weapon like
42:32 that off the bench is unbelievable. McDaniels
42:35 will be a tough assignment for Jason Tatum and
42:39 Jalen Brown. He's a great defensive player and
42:41 there are nights when he can carry an offense
42:43 for a couple of stretches here that that's not
42:47 a fun matchup either. This West is really loaded.
42:49 I mean if the Mavs got to the finals and it's
42:54 Kyrie and Luca against the Celtics would be a
42:56 kind of a fun storyline. You look at Oklahoma
42:58 City, you know the young talent they have it's
43:00 a little early for them. I think that's the only
43:01 team that I would feel super confident about
43:05 playing would be Oklahoma City is as great as
43:07 Shea has been and she has been unbelievable and
43:09 I love J Dub is probably one of my favorite
43:12 players in the league is too much. This is there's
43:15 a lot of a lot of inexperience there, you know
43:18 going to the finals against Steph Curry. I think
43:21 gave Boston a little bit of you know, a little
43:24 bit of juice in terms of what can explain to
43:26 expect, you know when things go really well and
43:28 what what happens when they go really wrong
43:30 how they get snowball and all that stuff. So
43:32 the Western Conference is so much fun. It's way
43:35 more interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I prefer being I'll
43:39 tell you this. I enjoy not sweating out games. I
43:44 really enjoy that experience you guys like I've
43:46 really liked the all of this is over in five.
43:48 Don't worry about anything else. It's a lot of
43:50 entertaining basketball outside of the Celtics
43:52 man. Yeah, I'd much rather be the Celtics in the
43:55 east and the Nuggets in the West, you know, I
43:57 mean like like just the path to to June is a lot
44:02 easier for the Celtics and it's going to be for
44:04 Denver. That's for sure, which is why and we've
44:07 talked about this before on the show like I'm
44:08 sorry to repeat ourselves, but you know, like
44:11 with Giannis out and and bead out even though
44:14 he's a perennial playoff choker. Anyway, I
44:16 wouldn't worry about him even South this war
44:18 playing the Sixers, but all these stars these
44:20 studs in the Eastern Conference already knocked
44:22 out like good. I don't need the whole like it
44:26 give me the easy path that I have no problem
44:29 with the easy path. I am not too proud for the
44:31 easy path. Nobody nobody last year. We said this
44:34 last week like nobody cares that Denver had an
44:37 easy path to the finals last year. They won the
44:38 they won the title. That's all that matters. Yeah,
44:40 it's like give me the parade. That's that's what
44:42 I care about. I don't think I don't think Wick is
44:45 sitting there, you know thinking about man. I in
44:48 order to get another championship ring. I hope
44:50 it's really tough, but no, I mean come on just get
44:54 the job done. That's what we're looking for here.
44:56 So I'm sure there are enough of our viewers
44:58 listeners sitting out there saying alright guys
45:01 the like we're spending the last 5 minutes 10
45:03 minutes talking about the NBA finals like we
45:05 tip the freaking second round series against the
45:07 Cavaliers before we worried about you know, who
45:09 Boston could play in the Western Conference. I
45:12 get it but big picture show. It's a little bit
45:14 of what we do here and and I don't mind look.
45:18 I'm going to tell you how I feel and Evan will
45:20 and our guests always will and I everything I
45:23 felt about the series against Miami came to
45:25 fruition and I'm hoping that is the case here
45:27 against the Cavaliers as well. You know, let's
45:29 let's just call it like it is there. There were
45:32 adults. There are no jinxes here. There are no
45:35 I'm not like tempting the sports gods or it like
45:38 I don't have that power. I am a fan a consumer
45:42 just like you hoping that we see it. Honestly,
45:45 not that entertaining series that the Celtics,
45:47 you know, have a couple of blowout wins couple
45:50 other relatively comfortable wins, you know,
45:52 or maybe there's a sweaty one in there and
45:55 Cleveland probably steals one get the gentleman
45:57 suite all due respect to Max Struess. We ward
46:00 off another demon of the Miami days and we move
46:03 on and we focus on again a rivalry series, even
46:07 though it hasn't been a rivalry in a long time
46:08 with the New York Knicks. That is what I would
46:10 love to see. I think it would be fun. And so
46:13 that's where we're at right now. Again, series
46:16 begins on Tuesday at the garden, of course, and
46:19 it alternates as I mentioned before and so games
46:22 one and two Tuesday Thursday. They see end of
46:25 the weekend, the trip to Cleveland back for game
46:27 five on Wednesday, a little less than a week away
46:30 May 15th. And if there is a game 7 and hopefully
46:34 there isn't it is one week from today. So guys
46:38 should be fun. I'm looking for and and Sean we
46:41 I don't even know last time you were on this
46:42 show. It has been long overdue long time coming
46:44 thrilled. You're able to rejoin us. Let's do it
46:47 again. Don't be a stranger. All right. Thank you
46:49 guys. John Devaney again of heavy.com and I don't
46:53 want to say no longer heavy because he was never
46:56 a big big man, but but he eats heavy.com for Sean
47:00 and Daphne and Ev. Let's have ourselves a fun
47:03 series, huh? Hey, I just I want to quit. Let's get
47:07 over with. So many things I want to say right
47:12 there, but I'm not going to. Evan Valente, Adam
47:13 Kaufman on to the Celtics and Cavs again game
47:17 one Tuesday night.
47:19 Shake it.
47:22 Shake it.
47:26 Shake it.
47:30 Shake it.
47:34 Shake it.
47:37 [BLANK_AUDIO]