thoroughbreddailynews
  • 2 days ago
Transcript
00:00:00For the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:00:28And welcome to another edition of the TDN Writer's Room Post-Kentucky Derby 149.
00:00:33My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:34I'm a correspondent with Thoroughbred Daily News and a host of the Down the Stretch Show
00:00:37on Sirius XM Radio.
00:00:39And my name is Randy Moss.
00:00:40I work for NBC Sports.
00:00:43Literally just got home about an hour ago from the Kentucky Derby in Louisville.
00:00:49I'm Zoe Cameron with First Racing.
00:00:51Can't thank you enough for coming back early just for us, Randy.
00:00:55The show was great.
00:00:56Great coverage on NBC.
00:00:58I've got Doodle behind me.
00:01:00I'm sure you've got Lucy there somewhere playing dead on the couch behind you.
00:01:04Yeah, I was just reunited with Lucy about an hour ago.
00:01:07She was very happy to see me.
00:01:08It had been like a week and a half.
00:01:10So now she's in her normal spot, wrecked.
00:01:13Yes, and we welcome Lucy back as well.
00:01:15All right, Kentucky Derby 149.
00:01:17And we are going to talk about the bad news.
00:01:20We have to talk about that as well, but we're going to do it in sort of two segments.
00:01:24We're going to do the Kentucky Derby first.
00:01:26Just talk about the race, the good news stories of Mage winning Javier Castellano, et cetera.
00:01:31Dissect the race.
00:01:32But we will get into the other stuff because that is very important.
00:01:35And I think all of us here at the TDN and I think Zoe and Randy agree that it's a subject
00:01:39that we can't ignore.
00:01:40All right.
00:01:41The race is won by Mage.
00:01:43Feel good story, Javier Castellano.
00:01:45Randy, the first thing I want to throw out, though, is do you have to look at this and
00:01:50say what if?
00:01:52Mage is second behind Forte in the Florida Derby, beaten by him in the Fountain of Youth
00:01:57as well.
00:01:58Then he comes in and wins the Kentucky Derby and Forte isn't allowed to run because of
00:02:01the scratch with the bruised hoof.
00:02:03That was one of the storylines of many.
00:02:05Do you look at it that way or is that a little unfair to Mage?
00:02:08You know, we thought we were going to see Forte in the Preakness and that's not going
00:02:14to happen.
00:02:15But that was one of the dilemmas, one of the handicapping angles that people were going
00:02:21to have to consider.
00:02:23Did Mage just continue to escalate his performance and get better and better and would he have
00:02:30turned the tables on Forte, whereas Forte, as we've talked about in the past, at least
00:02:35on paper, has been sort of steady since his two-year-old year.
00:02:39Did Mage just improve, continue to improve and surpass Forte?
00:02:44I tend to think he did.
00:02:46Looking at the numbers, I mean, he ran a very solid 105-mile speed figure, which is higher
00:02:52than anything Forte's ever run.
00:02:54He had only had three previous lifetime starts.
00:02:57He's shown a pattern already of getting better and better and better.
00:03:03And you know, I think Mage is really headed in the right direction.
00:03:06Is he going to keep improving in two weeks?
00:03:09In Baltimore, we usually don't see that with the two-week turnaround, but my gosh, he ran
00:03:14I thought a much improved race in the Kentucky Derby and he had a good race in the Florida
00:03:19Derby before that.
00:03:20Yeah, I mean, those chestnut horses with big white faces, who'd have thought it winning
00:03:24the Derby? Now we've had two in just a matter of years since Justify.
00:03:28A terrific race by Mage.
00:03:30Echo everything you already said.
00:03:33It was great to see Javier Castellano.
00:03:35Great to hear from Romero.
00:03:37We'll be speaking to him a little bit later on.
00:03:40But I mean, honestly, we just overthink everything.
00:03:44Us as analysts are overthinking.
00:03:46So Forte's out, he's scratched, he's a favorite, he's a champion two-year-old.
00:03:51Why didn't we all just jump on Mage?
00:03:53I mean, how easy is that?
00:03:54I mean, we could have all been walking around here with a bunch of cash in our pockets.
00:03:58But no, we try to overthink things and overanalyze things.
00:04:02The regular Joe Blow probably had Mage and probably is walking around drinking Moet right
00:04:07now where I'm just drinking a cup of tea.
00:04:09But it was a terrific race by Mage.
00:04:13The second-place finisher.
00:04:14Hey, two fills, Larrivelli.
00:04:16What a cool story that is.
00:04:17I mean, the Derby is full about stories.
00:04:20Jareth Lovebery riding his first Kentucky Derby, riding a perfect race, just getting
00:04:26outfooted in the last instant.
00:04:28Angel of Empire.
00:04:29No excuses for him.
00:04:31He was right by Mage at the back of the field early on.
00:04:34You could have said that Mage got the jump on him.
00:04:37I think he just had a bigger acceleration than Angel of Empire, who ran very well.
00:04:42It looks like we're liable to see him in the Belmont Stakes.
00:04:47But a terrific race all around.
00:04:50It couldn't have gone any better for that particular race.
00:04:55I thought Mage was one of about a half dozen horses or so who were in that middle tier
00:04:59of odds, between 10 and let's say 25 to 1, that if they had won, you would have looked
00:05:06at it and said, OK, I didn't pick them, I didn't bet in, but I'm not surprised.
00:05:09I'm not shocked that this horse won.
00:05:12Do you know what the Super paid?
00:05:14The Super paid $15,000.
00:05:17$15,000 with Aspenson coming in fourth.
00:05:22That was a good chunk of change.
00:05:23Didn't have that either.
00:05:25It's a perfect example, I think, of why the Kentucky Derby, in my opinion at least, is
00:05:30harder to handicap now than it ever has been, because some of the horses are so lightly
00:05:37raced when they get to Kentucky.
00:05:39As we know, horses improve with experience when they see things during the running of
00:05:48a race, and as they progress through their starts, they tend to get better and better
00:05:53with experience.
00:05:54Well, Mage had only had three lifetime starts.
00:05:59His experience was still kicking in, his improvement was still kicking in, but whereas
00:06:04in the past, when you see a horse that comes to the Kentucky Derby, let's say Mage.
00:06:09If Mage had run in the 1980s, 1990s, he might have had five or six starts by the time he
00:06:14got to the Kentucky Derby, and a lot of that improvement would have already been baked
00:06:18into his past performances.
00:06:20Here with only three starts, we're left to guess how much improvement there is in the
00:06:24tank, right?
00:06:27That's one of the things that you have to deal with nowadays when you have such inexperienced
00:06:31horses in the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:33Speaking to those factors, the inexperience, etc., there were a couple things that I think
00:06:40not just the three of us, but everybody got wrong beforehand, and Randy, to your point
00:06:44about how difficult it is to handicap the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:47Number one, there didn't look like there was any pace in this race.
00:06:50It looked like it was going to be a relatively slow pace.
00:06:53Not only was it not relatively slow, it was 22-1, 45-3, 1-10.
00:06:57It was an exceptionally fast pace.
00:06:59Now, I know it was a fast pace last year as well.
00:07:02I believe it was the same thing going in.
00:07:04Everybody's looking at that and saying, who's going to go to the lead here?
00:07:07That trip absolutely favored Mage because he came from well off under Castellano.
00:07:12The other thing that I think I know I said, and maybe the two of you did, well, if Mage
00:07:17doesn't break well, forget about it.
00:07:20He didn't break terrible, but he didn't break alertly.
00:07:24Again, this pattern of him not getting out of the gate, just jumping out of the gate
00:07:29and getting himself right into the race.
00:07:31Randy, I think in this odd circumstance, I think that worked out in his favor because
00:07:36the race set up for a closer.
00:07:39Even though he was well back early, that's where you wanted to be.
00:07:43The savvy veteran, Javier Castellano, rode a terrific race.
00:07:47I think you're absolutely right about that.
00:07:49I think you hit the nail right on the head and Castellano learned about Mage.
00:07:53He rode him in the Fountain of Youth when he broke slowly from the gate.
00:07:56And that day he rushed him and Mage ran out of gas.
00:08:00This time when the horse again, I mean, he wasn't left the gate, but he broke slowly.
00:08:06He and Tapitrice and Cyclone Mischief and Derma Sotagake all got slow breaks from the
00:08:12gate for various reasons.
00:08:14Javier this time sat on him and let the horse just sort of pick his way through the field.
00:08:20And I think that made all the difference in the world as far as the pace was concerned.
00:08:24Look, I mean, I kind of knew that they were going to go for the lead with Reincarnate
00:08:28because that was his best race in the Sham Stakes.
00:08:31But I was a little surprised that King's Barns was ridden so aggressively early on, right?
00:08:39I was not, you know, not really surprised at Jace's Road being asked for speed early.
00:08:48And of course, from post two verifying, I thought they would be a little bit more patient
00:08:53than they were and maybe try to work out a trip sitting, you know, third or fourth.
00:08:58But he was ridden for the early lead.
00:09:00And so those three horses hook up and before you know it, it's 22 and 145 and the pace
00:09:05is on the fast side of derby history.
00:09:09As far as Mage's start, we'll hear from Romero Restrepo later, but we were told by the connections
00:09:17before the race that they thought they had Mage's slow start solved by some padding in
00:09:23the starting gate that Romero was going to talk about.
00:09:26He said, oh, he should break a lot better.
00:09:28And I agree with you, Bill.
00:09:29He didn't break good and it helped him because the pace was so fast, it actually helped his
00:09:35chances to break slowly from the starting gate in the Kentucky Derby.
00:09:40Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:41It helped him.
00:09:42And why would you want to change it now?
00:09:44I mean, and the horse is comfortable having that running style, the way that he was able
00:09:48to navigate a trip like that in just career start number four was amazing.
00:09:54Kudos to Javier Castellano.
00:09:56I watched the drone shot of him all the way around and it never got stopped, just kept
00:10:01on rocking and kept on going.
00:10:03So he had a very clean trip.
00:10:05Tappet Trice, just still pedaling, basically.
00:10:09He got into a little bit, could never get going.
00:10:12What happened to Dermus Sotogaki?
00:10:14Well, the horses at the back of the field going into the first turn were Tappet Trice,
00:10:19Angel of Empire, Mage and Dermus Sotogaki.
00:10:23Dermus Sotogaki lurched left at the start, slammed into the side of the starting gate.
00:10:28And so he found himself back in the back of the pack, which is not typically his running
00:10:32style.
00:10:33He made a nice run, got up to about fourth or fifth at the 5.16 pole, running around
00:10:39horses at that point, and then Mage blew his doors off from the outside.
00:10:43And he hung in there OK.
00:10:44But you can't say that necessarily cost him the race.
00:10:47Randy, is this the curse of the UAE Derby, though?
00:10:52You know, we've broken all the other curses.
00:10:54How about this one?
00:10:55You know, that was the reason.
00:10:57And look, I was wrong about everything in the Derby.
00:10:59I picked Tappet Trice, so I'm not going to pat myself on the back.
00:11:02But I was an anti-Dermus Sotogaki guy, as I said, until someone comes out of this race
00:11:07and runs, not enough to win, but run a good race.
00:11:11No, thank you.
00:11:12And, you know, we thought this was maybe the best horse ever to come out of the UAE Derby.
00:11:16And, you know, little minor excuses here or there.
00:11:20But, you know, it's not like he had a terrible trip or anything.
00:11:22He just didn't run all that good.
00:11:24I don't believe in curses, Bill.
00:11:26The curse of Apollo was spoiled yet again on Tappet, right?
00:11:31Maze not having run at all as a two-year-old.
00:11:35But as far as some of the other horses, you mentioned Tappet Trice.
00:11:38He had no excuse.
00:11:39He's back in the back.
00:11:40He broke slowly again.
00:11:41He's back in the back of the pack.
00:11:43But Maze was back there, too.
00:11:44Angel of Empire was back there, too.
00:11:46We just didn't see the same, for whatever reason, didn't see the same Tappet Trice
00:11:52that we saw in the Bluegrass Stakes.
00:11:54He didn't have that same late kick.
00:11:57Angel of Empire got a great ride from Flobby and Pratt to save ground around the
00:12:03first turn and kind of pick his way through horses.
00:12:05He fired.
00:12:06He ran his race.
00:12:09Two fills.
00:12:10Oh, my gosh.
00:12:13I think two fills.
00:12:14And hats off to Maze.
00:12:16Two fills ran the best race of any of the horses in the Derby because the pace was
00:12:20so fast.
00:12:21We saw what happened to all those horses who were up there, the three that were up
00:12:25there setting the pace.
00:12:26And right behind them on the inside was Confidence Game.
00:12:29And he backed up the last eighth of a mile.
00:12:31And right in the middle of all that was two fills.
00:12:35Under a pull from Jareth Loveberry.
00:12:37And when he turned for home, he looked like a winner.
00:12:40But for two fills to run that well, being so close to that pace and still be
00:12:47beating—was he beating a length and a quarter, length and a half?
00:12:49A hell of a race for two fills.
00:12:53So now we look ahead to the Preakness.
00:12:54And just a couple of days ago, looked like it was going to be a really strong
00:12:58Preakness with not only Mage coming back, but two fills.
00:13:02They were talking about bringing him back and also Forte coming back after being
00:13:07scratched. We learned this morning that two fills is not going to come.
00:13:11And Forte can't come because he was put on the vets list and he's got to be on
00:13:16there for 14 days and then work to get off it.
00:13:18So we're going to have a Preakness where Mage is going to be a heavy favorite with
00:13:24a lot of horses that don't have much marquee value.
00:13:28Randy, if he runs back to his derby, he's going to be awful hard to beat.
00:13:32He's got to run back to his derby.
00:13:33But I'm not going to say it's going to be a layup for him because he can't say
00:13:38any race in the Triple Crown Series is a layup.
00:13:40But I'm scratching my head now and can't really come up with too many scenarios
00:13:46where he can be beaten or too many horses that can beat him.
00:13:49We'll see.
00:13:49Well, you know where I'm going with this, Bill.
00:13:51I'll get back on my two week soapbox.
00:13:53If the braces were spaced out a little more, you'd have Angel of Empire, you'd
00:13:59have two fills, you'd have Forte because he'd be off the vets list at that point.
00:14:04You would have a much better Preakness stakes than you're going to have.
00:14:08It's still the second leg of the Triple Crown and the history, yada, yada, yada.
00:14:13But once again, the Preakness is not as good as the Preakness should be because
00:14:20of the two week gap, but it is what it is.
00:14:22It's history.
00:14:24And, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll see if it changes down the road.
00:14:28The one thing I can't understand is the connections of Forte.
00:14:31Um, he was a vet scratch.
00:14:33We all know why we're not going to go into that, but I mean, it's an automatic
00:14:3614 days on the vets list and the Preakness is in 14 days.
00:14:41So I don't know why it was such a surprise that he can't run.
00:14:45Yeah, that was a little bit unusual.
00:14:47That story changed quite a bit.
00:14:49Today.
00:14:49We're taking this on Tuesday on Monday.
00:14:51Hey, uh, Zoe, what's going on?
00:14:52Keeneland.
00:14:54All right.
00:14:54As usual, the TDN Writers Room is brought to you by Keeneland, home
00:14:58of the world's biggest yearling sale.
00:15:01The energy, magic, and momentum of the September yearling sale returns
00:15:05September the 11th through the 23rd.
00:15:08Learn more at theworldyearlingsale.com.
00:15:11And speaking of Keeneland September, what a weekend it was
00:15:15for the September yearling sale.
00:15:17The first three across the wire in the Kentucky Derby were all sold
00:15:22at Keeneland September.
00:15:24Mage, Two Fails, and Angel of Empire.
00:15:28Now guys, if that's not enough, their dams were also sold.
00:15:32Hooker was sold as a yearling.
00:15:35She is the dam of Mage.
00:15:38Pretty mischievous won the Oaks.
00:15:41Her dam was also sold as a yearling at Keeneland September.
00:15:45We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:15:49If this place could talk, it would roar.
00:15:59It would say, this is a reason.
00:16:02This beating heart in the heart of horse country, steady and strong beneath the
00:16:09roar, reminding us why, for the love of the horse, for generations to come.
00:16:19Spicetown, Munning, Echotown.
00:16:30It's Echotown for Joe Talamou, and Echotown breaks the wave, and Echotown
00:16:35is drawing away in the stretch.
00:16:37Echotown wins the Allen Turkey Steaks.
00:16:40A sire line so prolific, it repeats itself.
00:16:45Echotown.
00:16:49The TDM Writers' Room is brought to you by Coolmore.
00:16:53All right, Randy, I'm putting you on the hotspot right now.
00:16:55What did you think of Zozos on Saturday, who, of course, is sired
00:17:01by Munnings, who stands at Coolmore?
00:17:03I thought he looked really good winning the Knicks go and talking
00:17:07to Brad Cox before the race.
00:17:10Because of Zozos' sort of newfound off the pace running style at the
00:17:15fairgrounds, where he was five and a half, six lengths off the
00:17:20pace in a couple of his races.
00:17:21Brad was worried about Zozos backing up from a two-turn race to a one-turn
00:17:26mile, and that they might run away from him a little bit.
00:17:29He didn't communicate that to Florent Giroux.
00:17:33The last time Florent Giroux had ridden Zozos was last year in the Louisiana Derby.
00:17:39The horse broke sharply.
00:17:40Florent went to the lead, set the pace in the Louisiana Derby, and Zozos
00:17:45ran one of his best races to finish second to Epicenter.
00:17:48So what happened in the Knicks go?
00:17:50Zozos breaks sharply.
00:17:52Florent says, I'm going to the lead.
00:17:55And Zozos fired a really big race.
00:17:58And, you know, I think the barn should be very, very happy with the way he performed.
00:18:03They certainly should.
00:18:04All right.
00:18:05It was a massive weekend for Coolmore Stallions.
00:18:08Bill, what about market segmentation by American Fat Pharaoh, who also stands at Coolmore?
00:18:14He just won the Grade 3 Bergeri.
00:18:16Churchill wasn't the only place they were racing this weekend.
00:18:19We were racing at Belmont as well.
00:18:21Yeah, once again, a big win for Seth Claremont and Chad Brown.
00:18:24The American Pharaohs, yes, they are good on the dirt, but boy, on the turf, they are really good.
00:18:30This is a win that sets up a return engagement in Grade 1 company for her next, maybe the
00:18:35Just a Game, maybe the New York State.
00:18:38But that combination of American Pharaoh, Chad Brown, Seth Claremont and turf racing.
00:18:43This horse is going places.
00:18:46In this week's edition of First Things First, we celebrated Corey Nakatani, who will be
00:18:51inducted into the Racing Hall of Fame on August the 4th.
00:19:01Is this race?
00:19:03The Corey Nakatani purse, Hall of Fame?
00:19:10We're here today to celebrate you, Corey.
00:19:13How are you feeling?
00:19:14Just kind of like overwhelmed, actually.
00:19:16It's just something that you, you know, when you're a little kid, you work for.
00:19:19I always say that it's the Hall of Fame is for your family because your family always
00:19:22takes a backseat to your career and without a strong support.
00:19:26But, you know, obviously my wife Lisa and the kids, it just makes it that much sweeter.
00:19:32Lisa, what's it been like living with Corey over the years?
00:19:35Very difficult, very difficult.
00:19:36I need a reward.
00:19:38Yeah, that's the word for her.
00:19:41For him, I was just so happy for him, honestly, because I know how hard he worked.
00:19:44I know how he dedicated his life to this.
00:19:46So it was so rewarding.
00:19:48He's like, I'll probably be dead before I get in.
00:19:50And to actually watch him and shed a tear that he was, it was it was really rewarding
00:19:55because, again, he put his life out there every day and gave 100 percent.
00:20:02I ran all the way up to the roof to find Frank Miramardi because we just had the Corey
00:20:07Nakatani Hall of Fame purse.
00:20:10He was in the very first race I ever called.
00:20:12I just thought about that live.
00:20:14I knew he was in some of those races with a Frankel horse or two, but he actually
00:20:18rode a horse named Gold Digger's Dream.
00:20:20I get goosebumps.
00:20:21It was the first race I ever called.
00:20:23He finished second.
00:20:25Stats don't lie.
00:20:26Corey is pure greatness.
00:20:28He deserves this.
00:20:29And at Santa Anita Park, we certainly celebrate and honor him.
00:20:32But as a racing fan, he was a friend of the $2 better.
00:20:35He rode the hair off those horses and he tried to get him home first.
00:20:40The Green Group has over 500 clients in the horse business, they specialize in the
00:20:46thoroughbred industry, and the Green Group has proven strategies to save you on your
00:20:51taxes. Learn more about how the Green Group can help you go to www.greencove.com.
00:20:58Welcome in now our Green Group guest of the week, Ramiro Restrepo, and he is one of the
00:21:02team that brought Mage to the winner's circle in the contest.
00:21:06And he is one of the team that brought Mage to the winner's circle in the Kentucky Derby
00:21:10on Saturday. He's a co-owner.
00:21:11He's a Bloodstock agent.
00:21:13He helped pick them out at the Timonium sale run by Fasig-Tipton.
00:21:16He also works for Fasig-Tipton.
00:21:18Ramiro, congratulations.
00:21:20And let's go back to when this story started.
00:21:22And it's fairly recently on January 28th, he made his first career start.
00:21:27On that day, are you ever thinking that we might have the Kentucky Derby winner?
00:21:32No, we knew we had a talented colt, Bill.
00:21:36He had shown, you know, flashes of being really fast back at the Thurber Training Center in
00:21:43Lexington, in Paris, right outside of Lexington.
00:21:46Just really showed he had a work there like in November 46 and two on that track that's
00:21:53traditionally, you know, not as pretty deep.
00:21:55And I remember the clockers there brought it up to us and were like, you know, a handful
00:22:01of horses have ever done this work.
00:22:03And they actually contacted, I believe it was Kieran McLaughlin or Louie's old or
00:22:13Louie Saenz's old agent to let him know, hey, there's a horse going down south that you
00:22:19have to ride.
00:22:20And that was our first like, you know, hello moment because the horse came back and like
00:22:27if he just went out for a jog, it was like one of the first times we let him, you know,
00:22:31we kind of let him see what what he had.
00:22:32And that was an impressive work.
00:22:34So that was the first clue.
00:22:35But I don't know anything, anyone who ever says, oh, I knew I was buying a Derby winner
00:22:40when it happened. It's just doing it for pomp and circumstance.
00:22:43In reality, you know, we always try to buy a nice horse and, you know, whether he would
00:22:49be a champion sprinter or a monster turf horse or whatever, you're over the moon with
00:22:54that. So, you know, this is just like a Hollywood ending.
00:22:59So, Romero, we all saw the horse the first time Javier rode him in the Fountain of Youth
00:23:03break poorly from the gate and he was rushed that day.
00:23:07And then back in the Florida Derby, he made that huge move, went past Forte on the second
00:23:13turn and then the last furlong finished up in like 13 and change emptied out a little
00:23:19bit the last part of the race.
00:23:20How did you guys view the Florida Derby heading in to last Saturday?
00:23:27I guess, you know, he's run prior to the Derby had run three times with three different
00:23:30trips, and I know his his breaking has been a topic of curiosity.
00:23:38He doesn't fill up the entire gate, so he leans back and crosses his back legs.
00:23:43So we were hoping that with the padding that the Churchill starter put in, he'd at
00:23:49least break sharper, which technique wise, it was his best jump of the four because the
00:23:56padding really helped to square him.
00:23:58But the timing of the bell was, you know, it wasn't a sharp, but at least he broke the
00:24:05cleanest of all. The Fountain of Youth was a disaster.
00:24:07He broke sideways with legs crooked.
00:24:09I'm surprised he didn't fall over.
00:24:11And I guess from the Fountain of Youth to the Florida Derby, we learned a lot about
00:24:16his training style, that he could take dirt and sit.
00:24:20And I really didn't view his last eighth at the Florida Derby as a really big deal in
00:24:26terms of it, of him, quote unquote, emptying out, because Louis, after the race was like,
00:24:33you know, I never breezed them.
00:24:35I didn't ride them. And when I found myself sitting last at that point of the half mile
00:24:41pole, he was expecting kind of a slow progression from the half mile on.
00:24:46He didn't realize and we wouldn't know.
00:24:48And nobody realized that when he would press that button, that he would have a Porsche
00:24:51911 zero to 60 in 1.1.
00:24:54Like nobody. It caught him by surprise.
00:24:57It sure as heck caught up by surprise.
00:24:58And any of us who's watched Gulfstream, I mean, I was reminded of Brian's time from
00:25:04Mark Toothaker when he did it at Gulfstream.
00:25:06I saw Gunnavera do it once, dialed in, do that kind of move.
00:25:09That move doesn't happen at Gulfstream, you know, so to ask that kind of, you know, one
00:25:14false swoop swing like that left us all like shocked.
00:25:18And Louis said that. He in hindsight, even even with that, he made the mistake of going
00:25:25inside to try to dominate cyclone mischief because he didn't think anything was going to
00:25:30be coming after he passed Forte like that.
00:25:32And he said that in hindsight, he wished he would have stayed in down the middle.
00:25:36And if he would have felt something coming, he should have just gone, you know, kind of
00:25:41herded him to the right and would have made it even harder for Forte to pass us.
00:25:45And and what encouraged us, regardless of the time, was that even after all that effort
00:25:50and all these things that Louis said that when he felt Forte coming, he started, you
00:25:54know, yelling to wake the horse up, to to reengage and that the horse he felt surge.
00:26:02But, you know, Isaac Newton, laws of physics, this other was coming momentum and the wire
00:26:07came up and it was over.
00:26:08But after the wire, if you look at the gallop out, regardless of whatever your view is on
00:26:13gallop outs, he's tugging and pulling and wanting to fight as the jockey said, well,
00:26:18the race is over. So we were like, look, he's not quitting.
00:26:21He's showing signs that he wants to keep going.
00:26:24Like he's not like Forte galloped up by 20 or we switched to the wrong lead and fell
00:26:28back by 20.
00:26:30On the contrary, he he wanted to keep going.
00:26:33So we knew he had a fight.
00:26:35You just had to learn because no horse is going to give you a sustained move for a mile
00:26:38or three quarters of explosion.
00:26:42So kind of realize that we didn't really that the necessity of having a physical rider.
00:26:48Wasn't of the most intense importance, but a rider that had hands, experience and
00:26:55timing more than anything, and who better than Javier Castellano?
00:27:01And it made that decision pretty darn easy to get him back on the horse, so.
00:27:07When. He got to the Churchill Downs and he loved the weather.
00:27:15You know, the Florida humidity beats up a lot of people and was beating him up a little
00:27:19bit, and the track was a lot kinder to him.
00:27:24It was just every day he was just giving these clues that he was feeling, feeling
00:27:30himself, and that just gave us the.
00:27:34The confidence that if you can go from losing by, because I respect the hell out of
00:27:38Forte always have like people who want to throw their two cents about him and throw
00:27:43stats and figures, class beats speed, class beats, speed figures, silver charm ran to
00:27:50whoever was next to him.
00:27:51So it didn't matter.
00:27:53He would put his nose from when it mattered.
00:27:54Silver charm wasn't thinking I ran this rating or that figure or this sheet or nothing.
00:27:59Silver channel just like my nose has to finish in front of this horse.
00:28:02You know, like there's no way to compete that.
00:28:05So if I knew that my horse can make up six lengths between five and a youth to three
00:28:13quarters of a length in the Florida Derby.
00:28:14And we knew he was still on the come that we were just going to be in the mix for a
00:28:21big route when they turned for home, regardless of whoever was in that race as an
00:28:26analyst, as a handicapper.
00:28:28Okay.
00:28:29Practical move on the Saturday Derby hats to you, Angel Empire, Mazel, Tapitrice.
00:28:36You won the bluegrass thumbs up Forte.
00:28:38You did your thing.
00:28:39But after those four of the runner ups, you'd be hard for you to convince me that I
00:28:45wasn't fit.
00:28:47So when two of them withdrew and we felt we were top three, you know, no one's here.
00:28:56Like, no one's that we're going to win.
00:28:57But you were like, dude, we know that we're going to, we're here to, to give a good
00:29:03account of ourselves.
00:29:04Like, we're not going to be embarrassed.
00:29:05We weren't 18 years old.
00:29:06We belong with these horses.
00:29:07We belong with these top three horses of what's what's left in the field.
00:29:10And, you know, other factors gave us even further confidence.
00:29:16Gustavo's training style, how the horse was looking, how he was feeling.
00:29:20And it all, you know, when, you know, you love it when a good plan comes together, right?
00:29:24So, and it did.
00:29:25So it's unbelievable.
00:29:28Why didn't we have you on last week?
00:29:30I mean, we were talking about it, you know, we were talking about it, you know, we were
00:29:34Why didn't we have you on last week?
00:29:36That's all I'm saying.
00:29:39He just completely tossed him out.
00:29:41Oh, it's by magic.
00:29:42He can't go a mile and a quarter.
00:29:44He got tired.
00:29:45Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:29:46We should have just had you on last week and we would have made it.
00:29:48It's a mother called Zoe.
00:29:50His brother, man, ran in the Oaks.
00:29:52You saw her juvenile Philly.
00:29:53She should have won.
00:29:54If she should have won her needs at the board.
00:29:56If you watch her race, she ran the Oaks.
00:29:58Grandpa won it.
00:30:00You know, she's a half money.
00:30:03She's a half the Finnegan's week.
00:30:04Who's a mile and a half.
00:30:06I'll have grid one winner.
00:30:07So there's class at the bottom there.
00:30:08I mean, you know, obviously I sound a lot smarter now, right?
00:30:18I have a question.
00:30:19So Javier Castellano was originally supposed to ride race game.
00:30:24What happened with Javier race cane?
00:30:26Was it something to do with Jeff rubies?
00:30:29Like there was a whole bunch of stuff going on that got you to Javier.
00:30:34Mike Smith said he got a call.
00:30:37Like what, what went in at the last minute, the jockey jockeying and, you
00:30:41know, the musical roundabouts of jockeys going into the Derby.
00:30:45Sure.
00:30:45Uh, and I know that's a question that's been asked, um, after the bluegrass.
00:30:53Louie obviously was, was retaining the Mount on Tapit Rice and we got a call.
00:31:01Yeah.
00:31:02So we, we, we, we got a call from Mike Smith, the Mike Smith with that bread program.
00:31:11Now I can't tell, uh, I believe, I don't, I don't remember how we got in touch
00:31:16with Brad or how Brad got in touch with us, but there was an exchange of
00:31:19communication that I can confirm that about his availability or about his
00:31:23interest and vice versa, because he's another jockey with a lot of experience.
00:31:27And, and that, and Javier had already ridden the horse and, uh, just
00:31:34followed our instructions in the final abuse, which was what we thought
00:31:38after the maiden, right, which was, you know, fight, fight for the front.
00:31:41And, um, there was another jockey as well, but, uh, he chose to not ride in the
00:31:50Kentucky Derby, if you can read between the lines, he decided to get on the
00:31:54plane and go somewhere else and win a very important race in Europe.
00:31:59Oh, okay.
00:32:01Frankie.
00:32:04That we, that we had had a conversation with, but quickly we're told
00:32:08about his, his overseas adventures.
00:32:10And, um, I believe something with Ray's canes sponsorship was in the middle of
00:32:24the Jeff Ruby's and Ray's canes sponsorship.
00:32:28There was a, a communication, something going on there with, with them.
00:32:34And Jeff Ruby clear cleared it about us.
00:32:37I, we could care less.
00:32:37You can put Jeff Ruby's, the pants could have been sequined in a Jeff Ruby's outfit.
00:32:41I could, you know, it had nothing to do with me.
00:32:43You know, we didn't care about that.
00:32:44And, um, but we had always stayed in touch with Javier because we are, we are
00:32:49basically it's four partners, but there's two Gustavos and then there's, and then
00:32:55there's two guys, you know, two leads in commonwealth, Jason and Brian,
00:32:59and then there's myself and Sam.
00:33:01So in reality, it's almost like six people sitting down for conversation.
00:33:05So, um, you will do want to have the respect of getting, getting, giving
00:33:09everybody their forum to speak their minds.
00:33:13Um, but we had, but Javier and Gustavo, they go back forever in a day.
00:33:18If you saw the press conference, they know each other, you know, since Javier
00:33:21was a kid and, um, Javier's father and our exercise rider and Gustavo.
00:33:26I mean, it's just family.
00:33:28So Javier was always like the two to one favorite, but how beautiful is
00:33:34for a few days, you know, you have guys of the caliber of Mike Smith
00:33:39and, and, and Frankie even flirting, you know, it's always lovely to
00:33:44even entertain that conversation, but.
00:33:47It was always like hobby, but how funny, like, you know, but just, it
00:33:50was just interesting to hear the other partner's opinions on those riders as
00:33:54well, you know, it was the right choice.
00:33:56It was fantastic to see Javier win the Derby finally.
00:34:01Cause he is a fantastic guy.
00:34:02It was a Venezuelan connection.
00:34:04I, you couldn't have written a script better than what happened on that day.
00:34:10You know, like these guy, Richie movies that it's like six storylines going at
00:34:15once, I mean, the Commonwealth guys have their story, Sam from Sterling racing
00:34:20has his story, Gustavo's have their story, you know, obviously because of
00:34:24these, the blessing of social media platform, it's been like a walking
00:34:29commercial for me to tell my story of my family.
00:34:32Um, you know, it's, it's lovely to be able to communicate each one's, you know,
00:34:38storylines and, um, how many times has this, I mean, how many times has this
00:34:45really happened, you know, like, Oh, I just, I just can't sleep, you know, I
00:34:52keep watching the race, uh, I can't believe that we won, that we won it.
00:34:56You know, it's, it's incredible.
00:34:58It's just, uh, it's just a dream.
00:35:01It's just so it's still so, uh, the motion is overly raw.
00:35:05I haven't, I haven't really been able to, um, you know, to, to, to put it behind me.
00:35:11I'm still like, just soaking it up.
00:35:15Romero, why don't we take a look now at the Preakness and jump ahead?
00:35:18And I guess there's kind of two ways to look at this.
00:35:21Um, you, you said that going into the Kentucky Derby, you thought this
00:35:25horse was improving, getting better, very lightly raced with only three lifetime
00:35:29starts, maybe we still haven't seen the very best of them.
00:35:32The other storyline is, uh, and it was a storyline in the Derby that you overcame.
00:35:36It's an awful lot to ask of a horse that has only raced three
00:35:40times, began his career in January.
00:35:42Some point, does it all catch up to him?
00:35:44So, you know, what are your thoughts about the Preakness and, and obviously
00:35:47the two weeks, which, uh, you know, every horse coming out of
00:35:50the Derby has to deal with.
00:35:52Sure.
00:35:52I mean, that, that's what makes this, uh, such a hard series to compete in.
00:35:57And that's what adds to the, you know, to the special mystical flare of the two
00:36:03week turnaround and of the triple crown.
00:36:05Uh, you know, there's no, at this moment in time, you have to deal with
00:36:12the cards that are in front of you.
00:36:13I mean, there's no sense in saying we should make changes
00:36:16because they're not going to happen.
00:36:17If you want to do that for next year.
00:36:18Well, that's not my place to make that decision.
00:36:21You just got to focus on the task at hand.
00:36:22And, and it's, it's what happens to you.
00:36:25Yesterday I made the analogy, like life is a 10%, what happens
00:36:30to you, 90% how you react to it.
00:36:31So this is what it is.
00:36:32The horse, uh, was never really pushed to get ready for his maiden.
00:36:38So it's not like he ran 20 races in the morning.
00:36:41The races are making him, uh, are evolving his physicality.
00:36:46They're evolving his mentality.
00:36:48And, um, we're, we keep waiting much like everybody else for signs that the
00:36:56stage has gotten to him mentally, or the races have gotten to him physically.
00:37:02And obviously he's, you know, flesh and blood.
00:37:05And I'm sure, you know, at some point, uh, it's just the natural way of the
00:37:13animal and I include humans in that, that there might be a fatigue factor.
00:37:19And, but we're still waiting for that, you know, whether it's after the
00:37:22Preakness or after the Belmont or after X, Y, and Z who knows, I don't know.
00:37:28No one can answer that question, but the horse at the moment came out of the
00:37:32race as good as one could ever ask for.
00:37:36So you just got to do is ride the wave and see how, how long that barrel.
00:37:43Right.
00:37:43You know, you can ride it.
00:37:44Uh, there's nothing else that we can go for.
00:37:46We're really happy.
00:37:48Um, style was super content.
00:37:50I mean, it's a blessing.
00:37:52I mean, like statistically, I totally, I mean, I'm a horse player.
00:37:55I'm a, I'm an obsessed, um, viewer of horse video at a PP PPS
00:38:01from going back to the eighties.
00:38:03It's 100 people are not incorrect.
00:38:05When they say these observations, like 100%, like statistically speaking,
00:38:09nine out of 10 horses or eight out of 10 horses that are in this campaign.
00:38:12It's too much for them for sure.
00:38:14But when you have the right one, that outlier that has the mental wherewithal
00:38:19that knows how to take care of himself, that knows that's, that's really smart.
00:38:22That's easy on himself.
00:38:23The first part of the race that is trained in a certain fashion
00:38:26that can handle the workload.
00:38:29Uh, you're lucky and, and, and you're just fortunate that it puts you in the
00:38:34position that you hope the two weeks don't hit him hard when he's actually
00:38:39in the gate and running it.
00:38:40And, um, but right now he's giving all, all the signs that he
00:38:44should put forth a good effort.
00:38:46So Gustavo obviously had a lot of success in South America.
00:38:49He's been building a stable in the United States with the son, Gustavo
00:38:53jr, that had some success with this.
00:38:55Kind of a smaller boutique stable.
00:38:57Give us a little insight into Gustavo and his training style.
00:39:02Um, you know, it's little known fact that Gustavo spent some time with
00:39:07Lazaro Barrera and, uh, learned a lot, uh, from the affirmed teachings
00:39:14from Lazaro Barrera.
00:39:16I had asked that question to Gustavo earlier this year.
00:39:19I was like, you know, did you have any influences growing up?
00:39:21Cause you know, there's only so much you can do.
00:39:24There's only so much you can talk about, about the existing horses in our barn.
00:39:28And, you know, I love to, I'm a curious person and I like to ask, uh, you know,
00:39:33people questions, open ended questions to learn a little more about them.
00:39:37And, um, he, I asked him that question.
00:39:39He was like, you know, I, I was with Lazaro Barrera for a little
00:39:42bit and I was like, really?
00:39:43And he goes, yeah.
00:39:44And we would talk a lot after I'd go out to the California and I
00:39:47learned a lot and I saw a lot.
00:39:49I was like, you're kidding me.
00:39:50And, um, it's, it's definitely a, a, a, you know, the Cuban trainers,
00:39:56there was a really big Cuban Cuba, a racetrack in Cuba back, back in the
00:40:00day and, um, the Argentines, the South Americans, the Chileans, the Brazilians,
00:40:05the Venezuelans, the folk, they, they, they, they focus more on foundational
00:40:11mileage and building wind lung capacity.
00:40:16But you do need the horse, you know, I can bring you Wolfgang
00:40:20to my kitchen, but if I got McDonald's ingredients in my fridge, uh, you know,
00:40:24you're not going to get the gourmet meal.
00:40:26So regardless of this, you still need the horse, right.
00:40:29To be able to execute, but the horse has natural speed.
00:40:32It was evident by his maiden.
00:40:34He quit 22, 45 and one 10 kept rolling one 22.
00:40:38He's got that, that speed, but he's got the mindset to be able to settle.
00:40:42And that lends to Gustavo's program because he knows how to heal.
00:40:45He will respond to what's being taught to him.
00:40:49And you guys know what horses, how many are, are, you know, the old
00:40:53average, they look like Tarzan, but they play like Jane, you know, if they
00:40:56don't have, if how many talented athletes in all realms of sports,
00:41:01they can't read the playbook.
00:41:03If they don't take the coaching, they don't fulfill their potential
00:41:06on the field or in whatever forum that they're in.
00:41:10And this horse has, and that's, that's just luck.
00:41:14You looked into a horse that has heart and the mind to adapt to
00:41:18Gustavo's, you know, the miles.
00:41:21The horse responds to the cues so well, you know breezing basically.
00:41:26Yeah.
00:41:26It's three quarters in the, in the, in, in coming on the form, but
00:41:29they're really mild breezes because the horse, they go all the way down,
00:41:32all the way around a Gulfstream, basically past the app and then up
00:41:35to the eighth bowl, every time that he breathed his last two breezes
00:41:39at Gulfstream before going to Churchill.
00:41:41And this last Churchill breeze, that was a one 16 that I saw a lot
00:41:44of like, you know, people aren't impressed with it.
00:41:46I'm like, man, you know, the first quarter was 27 and like three or 27 and four.
00:41:50And he finished up that next half mile in 49 and one.
00:41:53And that last furlong was like either 11, four or 12 flat.
00:41:57So he, he came, you know, he, he did his job and then he, you know, galloped out.
00:42:02So isn't that the point of this race is to get the mile and a quarter.
00:42:07I mean, if you, you know, we're so like, I remember it was like
00:42:12broad brushing and concern.
00:42:14And it's been a long time, street sense.
00:42:16And it's been a long time.
00:42:17So those kinds of horses were prominent in our, uh, you know,
00:42:23racing that style of racing was, was, was more prominent as, as the
00:42:30success of the quarter horse trainer influence in our business from the Lucas
00:42:37tree on down and super successful.
00:42:40100%.
00:42:41Like there's no need to knock it, but the style of those horses is go
00:42:45as far and go as fast as you can.
00:42:48But you look at their, the times that they come home and then
00:42:50regularly do they break 26?
00:42:52You know, like they're, they're just, you know, it's definitely go as far as you
00:42:56fat, go as far as fast as you can.
00:42:58They slow down and, and can this horse do that?
00:43:01I mean, in theory, either in his maiden, but you know, if you, that's
00:43:07not how the way that Gustavo train.
00:43:08So the horses adapt to the program, lots of miles, lots of foundation,
00:43:14lots of lung capacity, wind workouts, always teaching him to pick up
00:43:17the poles one by one on his own.
00:43:20And again, the horses have the mindset and the horse does that.
00:43:21He like, that's why we said to hobby, if the horse doesn't break
00:43:24well, for whatever reason, don't, don't worry about it.
00:43:27Just put them in a good spot, which he did cut in front of tap and trace
00:43:30found the pocket and let the horse get into his own rhythm.
00:43:33And when they went 22 45, the horse starts picking it up on his own.
00:43:37We know he has that, that turn of foot and hobby at the three
00:43:40eights game, the first little cue.
00:43:42He went from like 16th, you know, fifth, and then they let them, they
00:43:46cut them loose down the lane and, and he timed it just right.
00:43:52And it, and it all, it all came together.
00:43:54And it's old school horsemanship that teaches the horses that, because
00:43:59it's not often you see horses going into big races that I've had, you
00:44:03know, recent races before that are only working half a mile, five, eight.
00:44:08His is evident two, three quarter works on that page at Churchill,
00:44:13one down there at Goldstream.
00:44:14I think there was a mile in one 38.
00:44:16So basically Gustavo is a throwback trainer, which I think is fantastic
00:44:22to see in this day and age, and it was just a terrific race, but I want
00:44:27your exact feeling, your exact thoughts.
00:44:30When that horse got to the eighth pole and went to cross the
00:44:33wire, were you out of your mind?
00:44:41Just so it's just a lot, it's a lot to process, you know, this
00:44:48race, this race is a, is everything.
00:44:51So, uh, you know, what's crazy was that I had my uncles and
00:44:56my mother and my brother with me.
00:44:58So like, it's not just like I had my business partners were so many, you
00:45:01know, like we're four entities, but we have so many friends and family
00:45:04that want to come that, uh, there's no way to accommodate all of us.
00:45:08So you have to stay with your little pack.
00:45:10And then my, my, my, my box was my mother, my two aunts, my two uncles
00:45:15that the way that they would take me to the track and teach me things
00:45:20about the horses on the, on the backstretch at the expense of their
00:45:25jobs, their relationships with their children, weren't the greatest.
00:45:31And I, who's obsessed with racing, they would take me along.
00:45:35So I have a great relationship with my uncles, but it took the rate of the
00:45:37racing, took them away from their families.
00:45:39So like, I'm like, uh, and, and, and their kids are all daughters.
00:45:43I'm the only boy.
00:45:44So it was like having them there next to me here, they are like, you
00:45:50know, late seventies and early eighties.
00:45:52Cause they did the walk of me in there and the trainer in them, even though
00:45:56they don't, they've been retired for years, it doesn't go away.
00:45:58You know, they're before the race.
00:46:00They're like, what's the strategy going to be?
00:46:01And I saw the work and you're reliving like, like an old ball player.
00:46:06Like, and then they're, they're rooting the home with me.
00:46:09And we're talking fractions.
00:46:11If you've ever seen, there's a video on ABR that they were filming.
00:46:14I'm like 22, 45 minutes with them.
00:46:17I'm my uncle's on my shoulder.
00:46:18And I'm, we're talking about this as the race is going, like
00:46:21we're clocking a race.
00:46:23And then it's like, Holy cow.
00:46:25Like, I think we're going to win.
00:46:28Um, she was savage.
00:46:32It was just savage.
00:46:33It was a savage moment.
00:46:35I bet.
00:46:35Ramiro.
00:46:36Well, thanks so much for all your insights.
00:46:38Congratulations.
00:46:39We can see how emotional this is to you.
00:46:41Even all these days later after the horse crossed the finish
00:46:44line first in the Kentucky Derby.
00:46:45So we thank Ramiro Restrepo, our green group guest of the week.
00:46:49And once again, congratulations on your great success with nature.
00:46:52Hey, thank you guys much.
00:46:53Appreciate it.
00:46:53Thank you for having me.
00:46:54As the green group guest of the week.
00:46:56Guess what?
00:46:57Ramiro Restrepo will receive a free one hour tax consultation from the green
00:47:02group accounting and tax consulting advisory firm specializing, of course,
00:47:07in the thoroughbred industry.
00:47:08Again, you can learn more at www.greenco.com.
00:47:14Are you paying too much in taxes?
00:47:16The green group can help.
00:47:18There's a reason the most successful owners, breeders, and horsemen select
00:47:21the green group as their tax advisors.
00:47:23They save you money and share successful strategies.
00:47:27Over the past 40 years, the green group founder Len Green has owned and bred
00:47:32some of the best race horses in the history of the sport, like Eclipse
00:47:36award-winning champions, Jaywalk and Wonder Wheel.
00:47:39His DJ stable competes at the highest level and has received the
00:47:42game's most prestigious honors.
00:47:45Len Green's in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined with cutting edge
00:47:49tax saving strategies has produced positive results for his clientele
00:47:53and has made the green group, the top rated accounting and tax firm
00:47:56in the thoroughbred business.
00:47:58For a confidential and complimentary consultation, contact us at 732-634-5100
00:48:05or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
00:48:10The green group proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:48:15The fastest horse of the week is brought to you by the Fast Stallions of
00:48:19Windstar Farm, which had its newest graded stakes winner, the stallion
00:48:23that we're going to be talking about.
00:48:24And that's Web Slinger in the grade two American Turf Stakes, a loaded
00:48:29field on Saturday on the Kentucky Derby undercard.
00:48:33First, the fastest horse of the week, Smile Happy, who won the
00:48:38Alisheba on Friday and he beat Art Collector and he beat West Willpower
00:48:43and he beat them fair and square with a buyer speed figure of 110.
00:48:50That makes Smile Happy not only in the mix at the head of the older horse
00:48:55division, it might put Smile Happy right now at the very top of the older horse
00:49:00division. It was his third start as a four-year-old, remember as a two-year-old
00:49:04Smile Happy was a stakes winner at Churchill Downs.
00:49:08As a three-year-old, he was second in a couple of big races in the Risen
00:49:13Star to Epicenter and then to Zandon in the Bluegrass Stakes.
00:49:17And now he has come back strongly at age four for his owners, the Mackin
00:49:22family of Louisville and for trainer Ken McPeak.
00:49:25He was ridden by Brian Hernandez.
00:49:27Now for that Fast Stallion at Windstar Farm, it is Constitution, the sire of
00:49:32Web Slinger, the leading fifth crop sire by Black Type winners, Black Type
00:49:36horses, graded stakes horses in percentage of grade one winners from
00:49:42starters. Constitution not only won the grade one don with a 111 buyer, he
00:49:46sired nine individual runners with buyers of 100 or more in 2022.
00:49:51No stallion has more, with graded stakes winners on dirt and turf from six
00:49:56furlongs to a mile and a quarter and a classic winner in his first crop.
00:50:00Constitution can get you any kind of a horse.
00:50:03Constitution leads the sire list at Windstar at a fee of $110,000.
00:50:10All right, gang, we can wipe those smiles off our faces.
00:50:13They were well deserved and we were talking about the running of the Kentucky
00:50:16Derby, but it was a boy tough week.
00:50:20I think that's the best way to put it.
00:50:23I know that I watched the races on Saturday with a pit in my stomach and was
00:50:27a very uncomfortable feeling.
00:50:29Why don't we kind of divide this into two segments and let's do the before the
00:50:33Derby, what happened there?
00:50:35And five horses died at Churchill, which everybody knows.
00:50:40And not only do we know that, all the American public knows that because the
00:50:44mainstream media, rightfully so, was all over this story.
00:50:49And it was not any one thing.
00:50:52We know that horses died for different reasons on different courses.
00:50:56You know, one, you really can't blame on anybody, the horse that reared up and
00:50:59fractured its skull in the stalls.
00:51:01But Randy, I want to start with the story of Staffy Joseph, Jr., who had Lord
00:51:06Miles entered in the Kentucky Derby.
00:51:09And he was the trainer of the two horses that died for unknown circumstances.
00:51:14They dropped dead. We don't know why.
00:51:16Hopefully necropsy will answer some questions.
00:51:19The story changed on, what was it, Thursday maybe before the Derby?
00:51:23Maybe Wednesday, I'm not sure.
00:51:24Almost by the hour.
00:51:26First, he was going to run some horses in the Derby and not others.
00:51:29He wanted to run the horses that were stable at Churchill, not in Kentucky.
00:51:32And the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission came in and said, no, we're scratching all
00:51:36your horses. Then on top of that, Churchill announced, came in and banned Staffy
00:51:40Joseph temporarily from running not only at Churchill, but any of their tracks.
00:51:46There's a possibility that this was nothing but a terrible coincidence.
00:51:51And if that's the case, Staffy Joseph was dealt a penalty that he didn't deserve.
00:51:57But we don't know the answers.
00:51:59And I give this a lot of thought.
00:52:01I absolutely think they did the right thing, because, again, what if Lord Miles broke
00:52:07down in the Kentucky Derby?
00:52:08Is that a thousand to one chance, a two thousand to one chance?
00:52:11Maybe something along that.
00:52:13But there was that chance and we didn't know what was going on.
00:52:16And what would have been the reaction from the public?
00:52:19I think it would have been perhaps the single ugliest moment in the history of racing.
00:52:24I actually would have drawn the line differently.
00:52:27I agree that the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission should have scratched all those
00:52:30horses. Not sure I agree with Churchill now banning him.
00:52:33I think to keep the horses out of the Derby and Derby Week probably was enough until they
00:52:38got deeper into the subject and find out what happened.
00:52:41But that leaning up to the Derby was part of the biggest part of one of the biggest
00:52:47stories, the Staffy Joseph story.
00:52:49But even before the Derby, you pick up any newspaper, you go to any website, you're
00:52:54reading about five horses dead at Churchill Downs.
00:52:57And that is nothing less than an absolute awful thing for the sport of horse racing.
00:53:02Yeah. And there's no explanation for it.
00:53:05There's none. I mean, it doesn't appear to anyone that's close to the sport that
00:53:13Churchill Downs was doing anything differently between the Derby in 2022 and 2021 and
00:53:19the Derby in 2023 as far as the racetrack surface, safety protocols just stringent for
00:53:26the horses. I mean, look at all the scratches leading up to the Kentucky Derby than
00:53:30they've been before, if not more so.
00:53:34And maybe it's not quite the same for the rank and file horses during the week as it
00:53:38is for the Kentucky Derby horses.
00:53:40But still, two horses that drop dead, you know, and then the breakdowns, there's just
00:53:46no there's no I wish there was an explanation for it where you could say, OK, this is why
00:53:53this happened. We all know that breakdowns don't occur in, you know, spaced out
00:54:01sequences necessarily.
00:54:03They're random and random results can mean you can have a cluster of them here and then
00:54:09none for a long time and then a cluster down the road a little bit.
00:54:13There's really no way to predict anything like that.
00:54:16You pointed out and accurately, I think it's two completely different situations, the
00:54:21scratch of Lord Miles and all of Safi's other horses and the indefinite suspension that
00:54:28Churchill handed to Safi.
00:54:30We sat down with the stewards a couple of days before and they told us at the time, I
00:54:36think this was Thursday morning, that the necropsy results wouldn't be around for a
00:54:43week or two, wouldn't be available for a week or two.
00:54:46And we just sort of assumed that any any penalty, long term penalty for Safi Joseph, if
00:54:54there were to be any, would wait for the necropsy, which obviously it did not.
00:54:59Churchill Downs went ahead and unilaterally issued its its ban of Safi.
00:55:05And here's the thing about that, right?
00:55:08Is it fair on the surface?
00:55:10No, but Churchill Downs is not in the business of fair.
00:55:17Churchill Downs is not really in the business, to be honest, of what's best for the
00:55:22sport as a whole.
00:55:25Churchill Downs is a publicly traded $10 billion corporation whose stock, by the way,
00:55:32has soared in the last two years, is beholden, and they'll tell you this, they're
00:55:37beholden to their shareholders and they're beholden very much so to the image of
00:55:43Churchill Downs Incorporated, to everybody out there that might be interested in buying
00:55:48stock in CDI.
00:55:50And so when the image gets tarnished like this, this week with all the with all the
00:55:56injuries and the deaths, Churchill Downs feels the need to address that very publicly
00:56:04and very boldly, just like they did with the Bob Baffert two year ban after the Medina
00:56:10Spirit positive test.
00:56:12So in my opinion, that's what's behind what seems to be a premature and an unfair rush
00:56:20to judgment for Safi Joseph.
00:56:22And if the necropsy results come back and there is a logical explanation for the two
00:56:31horses that dropped dead, then maybe the Safi ban will be rescinded.
00:56:37We'll see.
00:56:38The problems of modern technology and the Internet.
00:56:41Zoe Cabin has disappeared off the face of the earth.
00:56:43We don't know where she went.
00:56:44Presumably her Internet went down.
00:56:46So hopefully we can get that fixed and include her in the conversation as we keep going.
00:56:51Randy, we just talked about Safi Joseph.
00:56:53I think we both made some salient points there to a lesser degree because it wasn't
00:56:59involving a life and death issue was, of course, Forte.
00:57:02And he is scratched the morning of the Kentucky Derby by the Kentucky Horse Racing
00:57:07Commission vet and for a bruised right front foot.
00:57:12For the most part, Todd Pletcher and Mike Rapoli, you know, took the high ground.
00:57:18But you could see that they were disappointed.
00:57:21And I think you could see that maybe you talk to maybe you know more about this.
00:57:25You probably do.
00:57:26They thought the horse should have been able to run and they would have liked to have run
00:57:29him. Now, not only has it kept him out of the derby, it's now kept him out of the
00:57:33greatness as well.
00:57:34But I think this goes back to what we were talking about, I think 10 years ago, maybe
00:57:39even five years ago, they would let this horse run.
00:57:42But in the modern era with everything going on, it's not just Churchill Downs, but most
00:57:48racetracks are not taking any chances whatsoever.
00:57:53And I applaud them for that.
00:57:55Again, was the horse sound?
00:57:57I'm sure he was sound sound because Todd Pletcher is a great trainer and is not going to
00:58:01run an infirm horse.
00:58:03And if again, if it was his desire to run the horse, you have to put a lot of stock in
00:58:07that. But if a veterinarian thinks otherwise, yes, he should have been scratched because
00:58:12that's what we're dealing with in 2023.
00:58:15Take zero chances.
00:58:18Yeah. And to point out how times have changed, for those of you who are watching the
00:58:25NBC telecast, I pointed this out exactly 20 years ago at Churchill Downs, Empire Maker
00:58:33was preparing for the Kentucky Derby.
00:58:35And on Tuesday of Derby Week, Empire Maker came up with a very similar foot bruise.
00:58:42His happened also in the right front foot.
00:58:45His happened on Tuesday, whereas Forte's happened on Wednesday.
00:58:50And being there and covering that Kentucky Derby for newspapers, Bill, you were there as
00:58:57well. We were hanging out with trainer Bobby Frankel all week long, and it was public
00:59:02knowledge. It was in all the newspapers, the foot bruise.
00:59:05He was very transparent about it.
00:59:08And you could see him as the week went on, talking himself into believing that the foot
00:59:17bruise would have no impact whatsoever on the way Empire Maker ran in the Kentucky Derby.
00:59:22He was a pretty solid favorite.
00:59:24Now, there were none of these intense veterinary checks and all of this scrutiny.
00:59:33In 1983, is when it was, it was pretty much left up to Bobby Frankel to decide if he was
00:59:39going to run the horse.
00:59:41You mean 2003, of course.
00:59:442003, 20 years ago, it was up to Frankel as to, you know, whether or not to run Empire
00:59:52Maker. And he decided he made the call to run Empire Maker and Empire Maker was beaten by
00:59:58Funnyside, a horse that he had already soundly, not soundly defeated.
01:00:02But in the Wood Memorial, it was clear that Empire Maker was a better horse than Funnyside
01:00:07on that day. He finished second with the foot bruise.
01:00:10It came back, of course, we know what happened to the Belmont stakes later on.
01:00:13But the point being, 20 years later, the same exact thing happens to Forte and Forte didn't
01:00:20get a chance to run because of the veterinary scrutiny.
01:00:23Empire Maker would have been scratched in 2003 if they had the similar sort of veterinary
01:00:29checks that they have now.
01:00:30And it's a good thing.
01:00:31It's a good thing. And you're seeing a lot of scratches in the Kentucky Derby this year,
01:00:36and it's going to be something that we're going to have to get used to because with the
01:00:41level of attention being paid to horse safety, this is the kind of thing that's going to
01:00:47it may not be five scratches like there was this year, which was the most since 1937, by
01:00:53the way. But you will, it'll be much more prevalent, the scratched horses in the days
01:01:00leading up to the Derby than we've become accustomed to seeing over the last few
01:01:05decades.
01:01:06Randy, we're going to continue with this subject and talk more about it after we come
01:01:11back from this break. But first, what's going on with the PHBA?
01:01:14Yeah, how about that?
01:01:15The Pennsylvania Brads were front and center at Churchill Downs.
01:01:19First you had Caravelle, who won the turf sprint, obviously very impressively, and he's
01:01:26headed now. The plan is to Royal Ascot for the King's Stand stakes, which is a five-year
01:01:33long, obviously, turf race against the males, all fexes, male and female, on opening day
01:01:41Tuesday of Royal Ascot.
01:01:43And then, of course, Pennsylvania Brad Angel of Empire running as well as he did in the
01:01:48Kentucky Derby. What did you think about his about his effort in the Derby, Bill?
01:01:53He ran very well.
01:01:54I mean, he ran a good race.
01:01:56He didn't have much trouble.
01:01:58He ran a solid third.
01:02:00He just wasn't good enough.
01:02:01But nothing wrong with being third in the Kentucky Derby, Randy.
01:02:05And the speculation is now, since he's not running in the Preakness stakes, that he'll be
01:02:08coming back for the Belmont stakes.
01:02:11And as for Caravelle, Royal Ascot, according to Brad Cox, was the number one reason why
01:02:16Caravelle was brought back to race this season as a six-year-old.
01:02:21So big things happening with the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association with what
01:02:27happened this past weekend on the sport's biggest stage.
01:02:31The PA Horse Breeders Association presents the Pennsylvania Stallion Series.
01:02:36Six races for PA sire, PA bred two-year-olds at parks.
01:02:40Two $100,000 contests at five and a half furlongs.
01:02:44On August 21st, PA Day at the races.
01:02:46September 23rd, PA Derby Day, as two races at six and a half furlongs, both with a
01:02:52$150,000 purse.
01:02:54And in December, two races going long, each worth $200,000.
01:02:58For more, go to pabred.com.
01:03:01Connect, the next in line to carry on Lane Zand's tried and true stallion tradition.
01:03:06A grade one winning millionaire's son of Kerlin, physically impressive and dominant on
01:03:11the track.
01:03:12Winner of the grade one Cigar Mile and the grade two Pennsylvania Derby, where he
01:03:17defeated Gunrunner, Nyquist, and Exaggerator.
01:03:20With multiple six-figure yearlings in his first crop, up to $360,000.
01:03:26Connect, a proven winner on the track, a proven stallion in the making.
01:03:32Always big things happening with Lane Zand as well.
01:03:34Randy, tell us more about that.
01:03:35Of course, the TDN Writers Room, as always, is brought to you by the Lane Zand Stallion
01:03:40of the Week.
01:03:40And this week, that stallion at Lane Zand is Connect.
01:03:45It was Connect's daughter, the Alice Look, who picked up her first grade one stakes
01:03:50placing when she was third in the Kentucky Oaks on Friday, bouncing back from a
01:03:54disappointing performance in her most recent start in the Fairgrounds Oaks.
01:03:57Earlier this year, she got a big speed figure for three-year-old fillies, at least
01:04:01this year, when she won the Silver Bullet Day stakes.
01:04:04And it was good to see the Alice Look come back to form with a really solid Kentucky
01:04:09Oaks performance.
01:04:10Connect, one of the top sons of leading sire Kerlin.
01:04:13We saw the success that Kerlin's son's had this weekend.
01:04:15He's also a grade one winning millionaire who won six of eight lifetime starts with
01:04:20four triple-digit buyer speed figures.
01:04:22Connect stands at Lane Zand for a fee of $25,000.
01:04:27So back to the issues at the Kentucky Derby, and let's take a look now at what happened
01:04:31on Derby Day itself.
01:04:33As we know, going into it, there were five fatalities.
01:04:36The media was already, you know, sensing red meat here and all over it.
01:04:41And again, I don't blame the media one bit for this.
01:04:44We have two more horses break down on Kentucky Derby Day.
01:04:47And what I wrote in my follow-up story to the Thoroughbred Daily News was that, you
01:04:53know, you have to pay attention to the media coverage of the Kentucky Derby.
01:04:56And by and large, it went something like this.
01:04:58Seven horses died at Churchill Downs, dot, dot, dot, and oh, by the way, Mage won the
01:05:03Kentucky Derby.
01:05:04I'm going to read something now.
01:05:05And I think a lot of people listening to this are going to be mad at me for reading this.
01:05:11But the reason why I'm doing it is because horse racing can't, to me, we can't bury our
01:05:16heads in the sand.
01:05:17And we need to know and we need to react to what the general public thinks about our sport.
01:05:26And the coverage in the New York Times was pretty brutal.
01:05:30They had two stories about the breakdowns.
01:05:32And here is a letter to the editor that ran in the New York Times.
01:05:37It says that Kentucky Derby and Churchill Downs should be shut down.
01:05:40Media owners and trainers hungry for a purse push these animals beyond their limits.
01:05:44They have proved to be incompetent stewards of the great athletes in their care.
01:05:48As you report, seven horses died at Churchill Downs in the lead up to this year's Derby.
01:05:52These horses are akin to the Roman gladiators coming out alive is the excuse me, coming
01:05:57out alive is the victory in this blood sport.
01:06:00The only answers, the only winners are the gamblers in the state of Kentucky.
01:06:04I read that because, again, horse racing can't ignore these things.
01:06:09Randy, I know I don't agree with that.
01:06:10I know you don't.
01:06:11I'm sure Zoe doesn't either.
01:06:13But we have a sport now in crisis and it has been for some time.
01:06:18And I personally think what happened at the Derby because of the media coverage of the
01:06:24Kentucky Derby was worse than Santa Anita 2019.
01:06:28And we have to be aware of what the general public thinks of our sport because they are
01:06:34the ones the court of public opinion is going to decide where this sport goes forward or
01:06:39goes backwards. And who knows?
01:06:41Maybe even is like the circus, like dog racing, put out of business someday.
01:06:47Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to this.
01:06:49We can't stop the horses from breaking down, but we have to do our very best.
01:06:53We have to do better.
01:06:55We need Heise to pass.
01:06:56We need the people that are standing in the way of Heise to shut up and go away.
01:07:00And, you know, we have to continue to fight the good fight.
01:07:04But it's scary to me as someone who makes his living in horse racing.
01:07:10As I speak to some friends, in some respects, I'm glad I'm not 25 years old because could I get
01:07:1550 more years employment out of this industry?
01:07:18Not sure I could. And that scares me to death.
01:07:21You know, I'm sort of rambling here because it's an emotional subject.
01:07:25I wish I had the answers, but I don't think anybody in horse racing should downplay what
01:07:31happened this week.
01:07:33And it should scare everybody because it was a really bad story.
01:07:37Yeah, I mean, we had an email sent to quite a few people at NBC, starting at the low end of
01:07:45the pole with me and going all the way up to the top, accusing NBC of being complicit in
01:07:54the horse deaths because of NBC's glamorization and coverage of horse racing at the
01:08:03Kentucky Derby. This is something that it's not going to go away.
01:08:06You're right. Unfortunately, I mean, we thought and the statistics seem to indicate that
01:08:14horse racing had turned a corner of sorts with horse deaths nationwide dropping
01:08:21significantly due to the extra attention we assume that's being paid to horse safety.
01:08:26And, you know, we all know that it's never going to get to zero.
01:08:32Horses, you know, you can sing Born Free and turn all the horses out into a field and
01:08:38they're going to suffer injuries and deaths and things like that.
01:08:43You're not going to completely do away with that in the horse racing sport.
01:08:47But, you know, at what level are horse deaths acceptable?
01:08:54That's a very, very touchy question right now to the general public.
01:09:00There are people within the general public and the animal rights activists especially who would
01:09:04basically tell you that any horse death is unacceptable and that there is no acceptable
01:09:12level at which horse racing should be allowed to continue.
01:09:16And that's a very, very scary thought when you realize the reality of the situation, that
01:09:23there's no way to completely eliminate it.
01:09:25Absolutely no way.
01:09:26And the sport has to, you know, really be super vigilant on this.
01:09:35And it sounds silly to say that because you think that they've already been super vigilant.
01:09:41But, you know, I know and you know that there are horsemen out there, there are trainers,
01:09:47there are owners, that if they could, they would turn back the clock to the days when horses
01:09:56could break down and there would be no public outcry.
01:09:59There would be no, it wouldn't be in the newspapers.
01:10:01They would just go back to those.
01:10:03Those days are long gone and you can't even think about that.
01:10:06You've got to deal with where we're at right now in 2023 with animal rights being front and
01:10:13center way more than it's ever been before.
01:10:17And horse racing just has to keep improving and keep doing everything it can possibly do
01:10:27to try to, you can't solve the problem, but to try to minimize it as much as possible and put a
01:10:32good PR face and let people know the things that are being done on behalf of the horses.
01:10:40See, Renan, I totally agree with you, but this is my worry about this.
01:10:44You know, horse racing takes a victory lap when the statistics come out and it's better this year
01:10:50than last year and it's better than the year before.
01:10:52And they should, because there's a lot to be proud of.
01:10:55They've gotten these numbers down, the work that they've done at Santa Anita and Southern
01:10:59California and Del Mar, where they had, you know, all hell broke loose.
01:11:03They've turned that picture around 180 degrees.
01:11:06And, you know, the numbers now are a lot better than they were 10, 12, 15 years ago.
01:11:12But so then the story that we might, we try to tell the public is we kill fewer horses than we
01:11:19used to. And that doesn't work.
01:11:24The public is not going to accept that.
01:11:27I mean, is there some level of, you know, that number is 1.27 deaths per 1,000 starts.
01:11:35Let's suppose it got down to a third of that, roughly 40.40 or something like that.
01:11:41That would be fantastic.
01:11:43But I don't know if that would be good enough.
01:11:47And it's probably unrealistic that we would get down to that number.
01:11:51And again, you know, the prominence of the Kentucky Derby bit us in the butt here, because
01:11:58again, if this happened on one week at Finger Lakes or Fairmont Park, nobody would pay any
01:12:02attention to this. But we and through the NBC cameras, through the media coverage, we
01:12:07invite the general public into our game one time a year.
01:12:11The television ratings were through the roof for the Kentucky Derby, the largest sporting
01:12:17event in this country since the Super Bowl.
01:12:19We try to put our best foot forward.
01:12:21And at the end of the day, the man on the street doesn't know who Mage is, doesn't know
01:12:25who Javier Castellano is, but they know that seven horses died at the Kentucky Derby.
01:12:29You know, bad timing, of course.
01:12:32More years than not, nothing happens.
01:12:35I don't think Churchill Downs did anything wrong here.
01:12:37I don't think the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission did anything wrong here.
01:12:40Matter of fact, I applaud them for some of the things we talked about, scratching the
01:12:44Sappy Joes of the horses, not letting Forte run.
01:12:48But, you know, when we have this happen, what does this mean for this sport?
01:12:55And is it going to be banned tomorrow?
01:12:57Of course not. And I don't think it'll necessarily ever be banned.
01:13:00But the forces that want to put racing out of business, they gained an awful lot of
01:13:05momentum this weekend.
01:13:06And that's scary stuff.
01:13:08Yeah. You know, we celebrate the horse in this sport and, you know, the majestic
01:13:14thoroughbred and the beauty of the thoroughbred, the beauty of a sport.
01:13:19And we put the thoroughbred on on such a pedestal.
01:13:22And the irony is that that puts horse racing in the crosshairs more than, let's say, the
01:13:33cattle industry, right, where cows are raised for food and slaughtered and people, by and
01:13:40large, unless your PETA seem to be OK with that, and pigs are raised to be slaughtered as
01:13:45livestock. Horses that have names and that race for our enjoyment and are so beautiful
01:13:55are put on a pedestal and they're considered different than the other examples.
01:14:01This is something that horsemen talk about all the time.
01:14:03They don't understand the difference.
01:14:07And it's just something that is part of the sport as far as the attention being paid to
01:14:12it. And look, we talk about Churchill Mounds Incorporated and the downside sometimes of
01:14:21what we've seen about Churchill as a publicly traded corporation, right, with what
01:14:26happened to Arlington Park, with what happened to Calder slash Gulfstream Park West
01:14:31before that. But it might actually be a really good thing that if this had to happen,
01:14:38and it had to happen at Churchill Mounds on Kentucky Derby Week, that CDI is a $10
01:14:45billion publicly traded corporation and has to care so much about public image that
01:14:51they, because of that, they're going to really turn over every rock and do everything
01:14:58that they can possibly do to convince the public that Churchill Mounds is all over
01:15:03this, that it's unlikely to happen again.
01:15:09And, you know, hopefully we'll have a situation that will improve in the future.
01:15:14But we couldn't have expected this.
01:15:17So it's scary.
01:15:18That is the frustrating part, is that there are no answers.
01:15:22One thing I would say, again, I mean, this isn't supposed to be a Heise rant, but, you
01:15:26know, if you're anti Heise, take a look at this, what happened.
01:15:29And please explain to me why it's not a good idea to have Heise come in.
01:15:33And they're not a panacea either, but they all appearances are.
01:15:38They'll make things better.
01:15:40And we everybody needs to do everything they can to to try to solve these problems.
01:15:47And so that next year we're on this podcast and we're talking only about the race and
01:15:53the majesty of the race and the greatness of the horses and the beauty of the horses.
01:15:56And that's what we want to talk about.
01:15:58So anyways, sorry to be a downer, but folks, the subject was necessary.
01:16:04I really believe that.
01:16:05OK, so moving on to things that are a little bit less severe and how about the XBTV Workout
01:16:12of the Week? The XBTV Workout of the Week is Arabian Lion is the chestnut on the outside
01:16:17here working in company with a stable mate, the Gray Malari.
01:16:21I hope I pronounced that right.
01:16:22This is Arabian Lion's second work back since the second place finish in the Lexington
01:16:26Stakes, and he finishes up strongly here.
01:16:28Creator Bob Baffert says he's not decided on Arabian Lion's next start.
01:16:32We'll be right back after this message from XBTV.
01:16:52All the thrills.
01:17:14Fraction of the bills.
01:17:19Experience the power of the partnership.
01:17:22Change your life, make new friends and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred
01:17:29racing. West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships, visit West
01:17:36Point TV dot com.
01:17:39TDN Riders Room is brought to you by West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:17:42Joining a West Point Thoroughbreds partnership can vault you into the world of instant
01:17:46camaraderie among people surrounding high class horses and stakes action for a fraction
01:17:50of the cost of trying to do it on your own.
01:17:53West Point was active at the OBS April two year old in training sale, purchasing horses
01:17:58for trainers nationwide at various price points.
01:18:01In March alone, 17 new partners joined the West Point family.
01:18:04Could you be next? Learn about available horses.
01:18:07Visit West Point TV dot com.
01:18:09The Remy Balak cartoon, which appears every Friday in the TDN, is in.
01:18:13And let's get into the minds of horses.
01:18:16When they lose, do they feel bad about it?
01:18:18Well, maybe not always.
01:18:19That's what Remy touches upon this week.
01:18:22OK, well, thank you for viewing another edition of the TDN Riders Room podcast.
01:18:27Want to thank Rani Moss and Zoe Cabin, my partners on the telecast, the broadcast.
01:18:32Zoe Cabin, hopefully we'll get that computer fixed and we'll have her back next week.
01:18:35Want to thank our co-producers, Katie Petruniak and Anthony LaRocca, our editors, Leah
01:18:40LaRocca and Nathan Wilkinson, and the return of Lucy.
01:18:43She missed us last week because Randy was at Churchill.
01:18:45Now it's Lucy. Good to have you back.
01:18:47Tune in next week. We'll have more talk about the Preakness, the Triple Crown, Mage, etc.
01:18:51Once again, thanks for listening.
01:18:53See you next week.

Recommended

1:07:42
Up next
TRF's Maggie Sweet Joins TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
59:21
Everett Dobson Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:00:06
TDN Writers’ Room: A Holiday Year-End Special
thoroughbreddailynews
1:10:56
Mark Casse Talks Sandman on the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:11:24
Locked and Journalism Co-Owner Aron Wellman Joins TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:06:43
Dale Romans Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:19:04
Laffit Pincay Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:07:16
Wesley Ward Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:19:02
Jason Beem Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:28:12
Aron Wellman Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:02:29
Dennis Drazin Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:04:13
Len Green Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:02:42
Brad Cox Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:03:19
HISA's Lisa Lazarus Joins TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:05:56
Kirk Robison Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:17:04
Michael Iavarone Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:11:03
Frank Taylor Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:06:32
Jim Gagliano Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:08:12
Eoin Harty Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
0:30
Sol Kumin Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:16:28
John Cherwa Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:31:44
Travis Tygart Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:02:14
Kiaran McLaughlin Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:30:47
Richard Migliore Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews
1:04:20
Trainer Kevin Attard Joins the TDN Writers' Room
thoroughbreddailynews