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00:00:00I'm Christina Bosnakis and I'm Gabby Gaudet and you're listening to the TDM's Let's Talk.
00:00:06Welcome back to the Let's Talk podcast. We're up to episode 3 and today we'll be speaking about mental health.
00:00:12We have three jockeys joining us, two Hall of Famers, John Velasquez and Ramon Dominguez, as well as Richie Migliore, a Fox
00:00:21Naira commentator. Let's get into it. I hope you enjoy.
00:00:26Speaking about horse racing
00:00:28currently, obviously, it's gone through a lot of changes over the years, over the past few decades.
00:00:33And one of the biggest changes really that we've seen over the last probably two decades has been technology.
00:00:41And in many ways, it's been a wonderful thing.
00:00:44It's been great for horse racing in so many ways.
00:00:46And one of them is actually social media.
00:00:49Social media has been great in some ways and in other ways, it's had its challenges.
00:00:54And I think that's where we want to kick off here is social media, the pressures in terms of your profession,
00:01:02basically going out and doing what you have to do every day, but then also having to deal with social media.
00:01:07And I'm going to start with Richie here first, because I know that you are on social media.
00:01:13You're very active on social media.
00:01:15You let us into your life.
00:01:18We get to see all the wonderful food you're eating and all the wonderful exploits.
00:01:23You know, exactly.
00:01:25And but there is there is another side to it, Richie, and I know that you left it for a while.
00:01:30So can you tell us a little bit about that?
00:01:33Yeah, I mean, I think social media is a great tool to reach people and let them know who you are and kind of let them into your world and use it to promote things.
00:01:43Obviously, we were asked to get on Twitter in particular to promote doing shows on Fox.
00:01:49And it's a great medium.
00:01:50But I don't like when people become so negative.
00:01:54You know, the one thing that I try to portray in my attitude is is just being very positive and educational.
00:02:02You know, I think one thing we have all have to really keep in mind is so many people don't really understand our industry horse racing that well.
00:02:10And using social media to kind of reach people to see that we're real people that, you know, just like them.
00:02:16But we are in a different industry and something that we can use to help educate.
00:02:23And I just got sour with it by the beginning of the summer.
00:02:26People being negative and jumping on any little thing to espouse these horrible notions about racing or just negativity in general.
00:02:35So I took a break.
00:02:36I'm back on it now.
00:02:39I'm not as active, but I'm definitely still trying to share what I think is pertinent in my life.
00:02:45You're absolutely right.
00:02:48Even when I retired, still social media, at least for me, was something that I was not deeply involved with.
00:02:56Since then, I have been doing it and it's something that probably has gotten a little out of hand at points.
00:03:03And I can see definitely, as you mentioned, Cristina, how social media in general has its pros and cons.
00:03:10So certainly when I look at the positives is that it gives the average person an opportunity to voice their opinion.
00:03:20But that itself also presents an issue because sometimes there are people that by now we all recognize that it's not an issue when you're voicing an opinion that really is not educated.
00:03:34And you're wrong.
00:03:35Let's just say that you're wrong.
00:03:36It is OK.
00:03:36I mean, a lot of us, even if we're talking about anything within racing, I will tell you something that I believe that's the way it is.
00:03:43And as it turns out, I may be wrong because nobody knows at all.
00:03:47However, the issue is that there are people who have an agenda to just be negative.
00:03:53And when we talk right now strictly about horse racing, there are those who are just looking for something to really talk negativity about the sport.
00:04:01And by no means that horse racing is perfect.
00:04:03However, if we just talk about the issues, even our perception is going to be that it's an awful sport.
00:04:10But the reality is quite the opposite, where in the last decade, the advances and all the different things that have taken place to make the sport better when it comes to even aftercare, when it comes to safety is definitely much better.
00:04:24And we're moving into the right direction.
00:04:26So I feel like sometimes there are people who are very smart and just as they can determine that there is an issue and over and over talk about it, talking about it doesn't solve the problem.
00:04:41Why don't you utilize that energy into trying to come up with a solution or maybe join forces with somebody?
00:04:48If it is really that important to you, try to just be on the positive side and join forces and have a collective effort to make a positive change.
00:04:58So those are my views in social media.
00:05:00But certainly these days, I feel like we live a dual life, the social media life and the real life.
00:05:08So there has to be a delicate balance because sometimes social media can certainly ruin our lives and it's not positive.
00:05:18I just want to shift gears a little bit.
00:05:20And, you know, if you speak to a jockey that has had any bit of a career in this industry, I would say ninety nine point nine percent of them have had an injury, whether it be a severe injury or whether it be an injury that they can come back from or even just a fall.
00:05:43Richie, I kind of I wanted to start with you with this because we we've talked about this before.
00:05:49And can you kind of take us back to that that moment where you essentially you had to retire and kind of what that incident was like?
00:06:03Well, it's kind of an ironic thing because I had broken my neck in an accident way back in 1988, had surgery, they fused several of my vertebrae in my neck and the accident that actually ended my career in 2010, the doctor that had to do another surgery and put plates and screws in my neck said that if I hadn't broken my neck back in 88, the severity of the injuries I had this time would have been unimaginable.
00:06:34This time, I most likely would have been a quadriplegic, he said, because the scar tissue and all the sinew that had built up around the original injury actually held things together.
00:06:46And I actually went back to riding. I was in a lot of pain, but thinking I had a pinched nerve, I could work my way through it.
00:06:51I rode a Philly that Johnny's familiar with life at 10 and just want to stake on her.
00:06:56I wanted to go ride her in Chicago when I finally got to Mount Sinai Hospital, my wife, Carmela, made a bunch of phone calls, got me in to see a specialist.
00:07:05He took all these images and he said, I see what's wrong with you.
00:07:09And I said, I got a pinched nerve, right?
00:07:11He says, no, you've got six broken vertebrae in your neck and two in your back.
00:07:14And he goes, I don't know how you walked in here.
00:07:16So I asked him if I could go ride life at 10 in the 60 sales in Chicago and then come back to the hospital.
00:07:22And he said, no, that's not going to happen.
00:07:24You're going to check in today.
00:07:26And they did surgery and my career was over.
00:07:28Unlike Ramon, who was in the midst of his prime, I was in the back nine.
00:07:36I was in the twilight of my career.
00:07:38Physically, I wasn't what I once was.
00:07:40Mentally, I could see a race.
00:07:42Well, I could still had a great feel and judge of horses, but I wasn't.
00:07:48It certainly wasn't what I once was when I would call my prime.
00:07:51So even though it was admittedly towards the end, I was 44 when the accident happened.
00:07:59It still sent me into a deep, dark place.
00:08:03I went into a deep depression.
00:08:05Not originally.
00:08:07When I first got out of the hospital, I was home.
00:08:09I didn't feel good and I didn't care.
00:08:11At that moment, I didn't care about horse racing.
00:08:13I didn't care about riding.
00:08:15Three or four months later, when I started feeling better and the reality was you're never going to do that again.
00:08:20I really got depressed and I struggled for well over a year.
00:08:25I was in darker places than I've ever been in my life.
00:08:28And I had to kind of reassess my approach to it.
00:08:32I was fortunate that I got great opportunities to start doing television and be involved in the game.
00:08:37But I couldn't look at it like I'd never do that again.
00:08:40I had to look at it like I'm not going to do that today.
00:08:42Almost like a person struggling with addiction.
00:08:45If I looked at it like I'm never going to ride a horse again, I'm never going to break out of it.
00:08:50It would overwhelm me and I would get very, very down.
00:08:53But if I just wake up in the morning and go, I'm not going to do that today, I could deal with it.
00:08:58It was what was right in front of me.
00:09:00And again, admittedly, as hard as it was for me, I'm sure with Ramon, it was even harder because Ramon was at the height of his powers.
00:09:07He was doing so many things that were just amazing.
00:09:11I've never seen a rider be able to have a horse in a spot and steady him along without ever breaking the momentum.
00:09:17And then they would find more when the whole or the opportunity presented itself.
00:09:22And to that end, too, Johnny, you know, I was already a veteran.
00:09:28I was a senior rider when Johnny came around.
00:09:30And what the accidents and injuries Johnny's gone through and come back and ridden with the same enthusiasm, the same intensity, never any fear or doubt.
00:09:41And Johnny's always been, since the time he was a kid when he came to New York, always somebody that was always looking out for the other riders.
00:09:48And I've always been a stylist.
00:09:50I don't know how he balances his workload professionally and then how much he does for his fellow riders.
00:09:55I just don't see how there's enough hours in the day.
00:09:57Yeah, thank you, Richie.
00:09:59But I mean, I have to say that I've been one of the lucky ones.
00:10:01So the three of us here, that all my injuries that I had in the past, you know, is not bad enough that, you know, stopped me from coming back for a ride.
00:10:11And, you know, I don't have to break every bone in my body like you both.
00:10:15It's never been as dangerous like you guys, though.
00:10:17So, you know, I've been one of the blessed ones, you know, being able to come back and do what I love for a living.
00:10:24You're being too humble.
00:10:26That accident at the Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita.
00:10:28And we know this.
00:10:30You almost lost your life.
00:10:32Well, yeah, I was one.
00:10:34But, you know, I still, you know, I came out of the hospital.
00:10:36That's my point.
00:10:38And it was not serious enough.
00:10:40I could have died there.
00:10:42That's what saved my life.
00:10:44And thank God for that.
00:10:46But, you know, once I come out and I feel like, you know, I was good.
00:10:48And the doctors told me that I was going to have a full recovery.
00:10:50It was acceptable to me.
00:10:52It was acceptable, you know, to come back to ride.
00:10:54And I was just like, so I never doubted that I was not coming back.
00:10:58You know, so but yeah, yeah.
00:11:00I almost lost my life.
00:11:02But, you know, I came out of there and never thought that, you know, shit, I'm I'm going to retire.
00:11:06But, you know, I was just like, no, the doctor told me I can do this.
00:11:10You know, my wife said to me, so what are you going to do?
00:11:12So what the doctor told me that, as I said to me, I'm going to give myself three months,
00:11:16four months, whatever it is that it takes me, you know, to get ready and get back at it.
00:11:20It's like, OK.
00:11:22She says, I just want to know because we have to make plans.
00:11:24What are we going to do?
00:11:26You know, and I told her, well, if I feel good and I get my opportunities, I'm going right back at it.
00:11:30So that's that was it.
00:11:32And thank God.
00:11:34I mean, she supported it.
00:11:36She didn't she didn't, you know, say no that, you know, that's it for her.
00:11:38It's their life, too, you know, because they know that, you know, there was, you know, two times,
00:11:43you know, that that was the most serious one that they almost lost me.
00:11:47But she was supportive of it.
00:11:49And to say that was my decision that I was going to go back and she say, OK.
00:11:55And, OK, let's go and do it again.
00:11:57I've got to just throw a second.
00:12:00I'm laughing because Carmela, you know, when I decided I was going to try to find a doctor
00:12:06to give me the opinion I wanted.
00:12:08I went through several.
00:12:10I couldn't get an OK to write a friend of mine, a fellow writer.
00:12:13I'm not going to call him out here.
00:12:15Had a friend in Tijuana, a doctor, and said, if you give him 10,000, he'll give you an OK.
00:12:19So I told her, I'm going to fly to Tijuana and get it.
00:12:22OK, I'm going to pay this guy 10,000.
00:12:24She said, that's fine.
00:12:26I support whatever you want to do.
00:12:28But while you're there, find an attorney also.
00:12:30So she had had enough.
00:12:32I have to say we should our next podcast should be with the wives of jockeys.
00:12:39I feel like just thinking about all of your like they have to be rock stars.
00:12:45Just the the ups and downs and just a lot of the traumatic nature of just a lot of what you guys go through.
00:12:52They go through it, too.
00:12:54They're your wives.
00:12:56So they really go through the struggles.
00:12:58But, you know, Richie mentioned it.
00:13:00You know, Johnny has also touched on it.
00:13:02Ramon, you were at the height of your powers when you were when you were injured and you were and you had to retire.
00:13:08That is obviously different than what Richie experienced a little bit, in any case, different than what Johnny's experiencing.
00:13:16Tell us about emotionally.
00:13:18How do you go from you were at the top of your game and then all of a sudden somebody tells you or you decide that I can't do this anymore?
00:13:27Yeah, it was a process.
00:13:29And part of the process, I say that there is a grieving period because in my case, number one, initially all along, I thought I was going to come back to right.
00:13:39And I even gave an interview, said, yeah, I think that I'll be back.
00:13:42And I don't know if I say a month or two.
00:13:44Honestly, I wasn't in my right mind at the moment.
00:13:47I was still going through recovery.
00:13:49But the time came when the doctor basically sat me down and they explained to me all of the injuries that I have had before, the brain injuries and what it meant for me to go back and be exposed to hitting my head again.
00:14:02They say, we cannot clear you.
00:14:04You should not write again.
00:14:06So I did do what Midori did.
00:14:08I know what he wanted to do to pay $10,000, but I did go to see a couple other doctors and get another opinion.
00:14:14And everybody was pretty consistent saying, oh, you're lucky.
00:14:15And really, they were blown away as to how I was doing cognitively, how well I was doing.
00:14:21So they came when I announced my retirement.
00:14:24And it's something that, of course, it felt sort of, it didn't feel real.
00:14:30But making the announcement wasn't really the most difficult thing.
00:14:34It's what happened afterwards, the days that came after that, because I got to a point where I said, wow, this is real.
00:14:42I will not be writing a race again.
00:14:44So that is difficult because it's not only something that we absolutely love.
00:14:50It's one thing when you have to stop doing something.
00:14:54Let's just say that you have a job that is really paying the bills, but you're not really passionate about it.
00:14:59I always say that I would have paid to ride horses for a long time.
00:15:03So therefore, it was my passion.
00:15:05So even if you are aware that that is what you do for a living, and even if you're proud of your accomplishments and what you do,
00:15:13it's not really doesn't define who you are.
00:15:15There is still this intertwinedness between who you are and what you do that you feel like,
00:15:23or at least I felt like I was losing part of me or I was losing who I was.
00:15:27And that is so wrong.
00:15:29So through this period and just reflecting back, I get to realize, listen, I am proud of what I did or about what I accomplished
00:15:37because I put a lot of hard work and it was a beautiful time.
00:15:40But it's time to turn the page.
00:15:42And I was able to turn the page where I can sincerely say that I was OK with leaving that in the past.
00:15:49It didn't happen overnight.
00:15:51And I couldn't say enough about how important it was to have a spouse like I do.
00:15:57My wife was incredible.
00:15:59Right after my retirement, we came to Saratoga.
00:16:02And I didn't know when I got to the track.
00:16:04She said, let's go to the track.
00:16:06I said, heck no, I'm not going to the track because it was really painful for me to go and watch the races.
00:16:09It was still too early.
00:16:11And one day she said, no, no, it's not if you want to, but we're going.
00:16:15And so we went and I was glad that I did it because I had a great time.
00:16:19And then after that, we went again another day.
00:16:21And from then on, it was actually pleasant and I enjoy going to a track.
00:16:25But it certainly was a process.
00:16:27And now speaking with some of my fellow riders, my peers that retired even on their own,
00:16:33I realize most of them face the same thing where there is this feeling of you're losing a little bit of your persona or your identity.
00:16:43Well, that's interesting you say that Ramon, because that was the biggest thing.
00:16:47And I'm almost embarrassed to say it now, but I felt like I lost my identity.
00:16:52You start dreaming to do something when you're 10, working at it by the time I was 12.
00:16:56By the time I was 15, I was riding professionally.
00:16:59And then 44, it's over.
00:17:01And I really felt like I lost my identity.
00:17:04Now, it's almost 12 years since I rode.
00:17:08My identity is being a father, being a husband, being a friend, being a brother, maybe being a mentor to younger riders.
00:17:17But in that moment, that's how you feel because it's all you've ever done and your routine.
00:17:23I loved going to the jockey's room.
00:17:25I couldn't wait to get to the jockey's room in the morning and the camaraderie in there,
00:17:29and maybe taking somebody's money at cards.
00:17:32Yeah, you did very good on that, Richie.
00:17:35But what is it, and this is for any one of you that wants to answer this,
00:17:40what is it in the jockey's psyche that you can be in one of the most frightening spills?
00:17:50I mean, something that's just harrowing to look at.
00:17:53And then you can just get up in the next moment.
00:17:57Because I remember Angel Cordero told me a story once,
00:18:00and I think he was talking about, I think it was Jose Santos that he was talking about,
00:18:03that he broke his leg, and his leg was broken.
00:18:05And he was stuffing things into his boot to make sure to stabilize it so he can go and ride a race.
00:18:12And I'm thinking to myself, this is a different kind of psychology, right?
00:18:16That I don't understand because I'm not that way.
00:18:19Yeah, we are crazy. We are crazy people.
00:18:21We all done that.
00:18:23Yeah, we all done that.
00:18:24I mean, just crazy things that we come up with,
00:18:26and I don't know, black pain or something,
00:18:29and we come up with these stupid things.
00:18:31I can work through it, and we all do it.
00:18:34For whatever reason, I can't explain it, why.
00:18:36Are you trying to prove it to yourself, or prove yourself to other people, though?
00:18:42No, because it's not true to anybody.
00:18:46I think for me, in my case, it's like, no, I think it's the fear of losing your business
00:18:52or losing the horse that you love,
00:18:54or losing that moment that you can,
00:18:58it could be a really good horse,
00:19:00it's a steak or something like that.
00:19:02Losing that moment, the opportunity that you have right now, though.
00:19:05And I think that alone makes you think differently, though.
00:19:08I can work through the pain. I can do this.
00:19:10I mean, obviously, afterwards, when you completely sound and not feeling any pain,
00:19:17you say, man, I was so freaking stupid.
00:19:19But you know what? You do it again.
00:19:21I mean, I did it again and again and again, and it's stupid.
00:19:25But the fear of losing that opportunity or that horse that you love
00:19:30and that you want to be part of it,
00:19:32it makes you do things that are very stupid.
00:19:35Definitely what Johnny is saying, the business aspect has a lot to do.
00:19:39We are creatures of habits, and it's not something that you're trained to,
00:19:43oh, you need to be tough.
00:19:45I mean, some of us may have that kind of upbringing, pretty tough,
00:19:48that you need to be strong.
00:19:50But I think that is something that you just become that person
00:19:54where you know that basically there is no other option.
00:19:57If there is the slim chance that you can ride, you'll do it.
00:20:00And there is really never a good opportunity to choose to say,
00:20:05I'm going to take off my mask.
00:20:07Because if you are, whether starting or you are just struggling to get going,
00:20:12and you say, man, if I stop now because I have a hairline fracture
00:20:16or a fracture or something, this pain because I went down,
00:20:21this horse that I am riding or this other horse,
00:20:25I'm not going to be able to ride him.
00:20:27And that's going to basically make me enough money to pay my bills.
00:20:30But if you are in a position like Johnny,
00:20:33where you're riding these amazing horses and winning these big races,
00:20:36same thing.
00:20:38If I don't ride this weekend or if I don't ride for two weeks,
00:20:41somebody else is going to ride my horses.
00:20:43So now we all can definitely talk about times when we have ridden,
00:20:47when we shouldn't have.
00:20:49And I mean, I had in two occasions, I rode with a fracture.
00:20:52And it's something that I don't know, like Gabby was saying,
00:20:56whether it is a huge trend to show to people.
00:20:59No, it's really a personal thing that I know that I can do it,
00:21:03even if I don't hit with this hand, I'm going to be able to hit with this hand.
00:21:07And it's sort of a challenge to yourself,
00:21:09but there is not a whole lot of thought put behind it.
00:21:12That's the only option.
00:21:14And it's something that when you stop,
00:21:16and whether like Johnny said, after all is said and done,
00:21:19after a few weeks or a month,
00:21:22or when you are in a different environment and you reflect on that,
00:21:26that's just pure insanity.
00:21:28But you know, it's important, and I want young riders to understand this,
00:21:32and I talk to them and I say this,
00:21:34for every jockey, for every athlete,
00:21:37there's a last ride, there's a last setback, there's a last play.
00:21:41And if you're fortunate, you get to choose when that last ride is.
00:21:45You know, a few notable guys, Chris McCarron, Jerry Bailey, Pat Day,
00:21:49they accomplished amazing things,
00:21:51and they made a decision it was time to step away.
00:21:54The vast majority of riders don't get that opportunity.
00:21:57So I tell young riders, there will be a last ride,
00:22:00and hopefully you get to choose when.
00:22:02But that's why you owe it to yourself to make the most out of the time you have,
00:22:06to be the best you possibly can be.
00:22:08Because once it's over, you can't go,
00:22:09well, I wish I'd have worked harder.
00:22:11You don't have a do-over,
00:22:13and you've already got a job that an ambulance follows you around.
00:22:16You owe it to yourself to be the very best you can be.
00:22:19Absolutely.
00:22:21Richie, I want to ask you something now,
00:22:23and again, we can ask everybody this particular question.
00:22:26You mentioned the ambulance following you around.
00:22:28Again, that's a different thing that most of us don't experience day to day,
00:22:33certainly.
00:22:35Do you feel fear?
00:22:37Did you feel fear at times?
00:22:39Was there a moment where you thought to yourself,
00:22:41that feeling came into you?
00:22:44I think anybody who doesn't admit that there are times when you have fear,
00:22:49courage is in the absence of fear.
00:22:52It's being able to do what you need to do despite the fear.
00:22:55And not that you live with a constant fear,
00:22:57but sure, you get in a spot,
00:22:59or you see somebody go in a spot in front of you,
00:23:01and you go, this isn't going to be good.
00:23:03Yeah, of course, in that moment, you're like,
00:23:05but it's not the thing that's forefront in your mind.
00:23:08For me, I've always,
00:23:10life's risk and reward.
00:23:12The reward and the pleasure and the love of what I was privileged to do.
00:23:19I was a kid who grew up in an apartment building in Brooklyn, New York,
00:23:22watching the races every Saturday on Channel 9,
00:23:25Charles C. Caney, Frank Wright.
00:23:27Then the fact that I was a part of this world,
00:23:30that it took me out of the city.
00:23:32To the point now, I have a farm.
00:23:34I'm talking to you, looking out on my fields.
00:23:37The reward so far outweighed the risk.
00:23:42And I'm also a believer in fate.
00:23:44I just genuinely believe there's a huge book, like a ledger.
00:23:48And you can't run from your destiny.
00:23:50Whatever's meant to be is going to be.
00:23:52All I can do is control the person I am,
00:23:54be the best I can be at what I'm trying to do,
00:23:56and be the best person I can be.
00:23:58So, no, I don't think any rider could ride with the idea of walking out,
00:24:02out to the racecourse, or out to the paddock with fear.
00:24:06But anybody who doesn't admit there's a moment at times
00:24:09when somebody clips heels in front of you,
00:24:11or you got a horse running off with you, or running out on heels.
00:24:13Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:24:15At that moment, of course, you're going to have that moment.
00:24:17Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:24:19I mean, there's fear all the time.
00:24:21But, you know, there's somebody falling,
00:24:23a horse breaks down, unfortunately,
00:24:25and you're behind somebody like that, or even your own horse.
00:24:27So, it's always there.
00:24:29But you don't have that fear going into the race.
00:24:31You plan what you're going to do in the race,
00:24:33what's anticipated, what's going to happen.
00:24:35Hopefully, your horse will respond for the things you would like to do.
00:24:37And once that gate's open, believe me,
00:24:39all you're thinking is about strategy.
00:24:41Oh, what's the meaning of you?
00:24:43Where are you going to go?
00:24:45So, the fear will come into that moment
00:24:47that something happens in the race.
00:24:49Other than that, I mean, for me, anyway,
00:24:51if you have fear going into the race,
00:24:55you should not be riding because you make more mistakes.
00:24:57You do every mistake.
00:24:59You do every mistake that's possible in there
00:25:01because you don't go to a spot where you're supposed to go,
00:25:04or you go out when you're not supposed to go in and out.
00:25:06So, it makes it very difficult for a person
00:25:09that doesn't have to be there.
00:25:11And I'm saying, there's some of them up there
00:25:13that I think they should not be riding, though.
00:25:15And it's a problem for everybody, though.
00:25:18For me, Richie, obviously, Ramon, I can talk for a second.
00:25:22When I saw them riding, there was no fear there.
00:25:24They were going to go to the place that they need to be.
00:25:26They were doing the right thing.
00:25:28Those are the people you watch.
00:25:30And then you learn from the people
00:25:32who don't attend or have the fear to go to those places
00:25:36because those are the things that you don't want to do.
00:25:38So, you always try to watch everybody
00:25:40and learn from everybody.
00:25:42And yes, I mean, for me,
00:25:44and I talk for these two guys as well
00:25:46because I saw them riding,
00:25:48the fear was not there when there were other races.
00:25:52When there are other races,
00:25:54they're focusing on what they're supposed to be doing.
00:25:55Well, let me tell you,
00:25:57when you talk about fear,
00:25:59obviously, we are explaining about the actual fear
00:26:05or the concern or the worries while riding a race.
00:26:08And God forbid, there is an accident.
00:26:11And certainly, both Jonny and Richard
00:26:13explained that very well.
00:26:15Now, but there are other fears
00:26:17that has to do with the life of a jockey
00:26:19because it is such a demanding career.
00:26:22It's such a demanding profession
00:26:24because fear in itself,
00:26:26when it comes to the unknown,
00:26:28when you're a jockey and you're,
00:26:30gosh, you are doing well,
00:26:32but every day presents
00:26:34with a different set of challenges.
00:26:36You don't know really what is going to happen.
00:26:38And it's different, perhaps,
00:26:40for the jockey,
00:26:42or it's magnified, I should say,
00:26:44compared to other athletes
00:26:46or most athletes,
00:26:48just because the athletes prepare
00:26:50and train for a specific game
00:26:52or perhaps for a season.
00:26:54Jockeys have a never-ending season.
00:26:58It's year-round racing.
00:27:00And even if you have great business
00:27:02and you're doing well
00:27:04and you had an amazing day today,
00:27:06tomorrow, you have to turn the page.
00:27:08It's a brand new day.
00:27:10And things can start going bad
00:27:12when you fall into a slump and things change.
00:27:14So that is always in the back of your mind,
00:27:16the concern.
00:27:18But I want to go back briefly
00:27:20to talk about the other field
00:27:22that they were speaking about
00:27:24and something that I learned through my career.
00:27:26This is going to be a little bit
00:27:28rough to explain
00:27:30just because of the nature
00:27:32of what was going through my mind,
00:27:34but it was a great lesson that I learned.
00:27:36So I remember clear
00:27:38where I was driving my Honda
00:27:40to Ecuador,
00:27:42where since the night before
00:27:44when I look at the paper
00:27:46and saw what I was writing,
00:27:48there was a horse that I was riding
00:27:50that I didn't want to ride.
00:27:52I was very concerned
00:27:54about this horse because
00:27:56he didn't feel well.
00:27:58And so I'm thinking
00:28:00about this horse
00:28:02and all I could think
00:28:04is about this horse.
00:28:06And somebody had lent me
00:28:08some CD about Tony Robbins
00:28:10and I happened to be listening to this
00:28:12and he talked about
00:28:14the acronym of fear
00:28:16and he says fear stands for
00:28:18false evidence appearing real.
00:28:20So when I hear that,
00:28:22I say, wow, that sounds pretty cool.
00:28:24So up until that point,
00:28:26I was told,
00:28:28I was told by other people
00:28:30that, you know,
00:28:32just try to forget about it,
00:28:34you know, try to forget about it,
00:28:36but that never works.
00:28:38You know, I tried to forget about
00:28:40this horse that I was riding
00:28:42that I was very concerned
00:28:44or I was afraid of,
00:28:46but it was sort of in the back of my mind
00:28:48reminding me, hey, I'm here,
00:28:50I chose to
00:28:52look into this like
00:28:54in the face and say,
00:28:56okay, what is really the big issue here?
00:28:58So I go out there
00:29:00and I'm going to have an opportunity
00:29:02to warm up this horse.
00:29:04If this horse doesn't feel sound enough,
00:29:06I have the other choice to tell the,
00:29:08the veterinarian to listen,
00:29:10I don't want to ride a horse,
00:29:12let's crash it.
00:29:14But let's say that the horse warms up well
00:29:16and I put him in the gate
00:29:18and then in the race,
00:29:20I have the opportunity
00:29:22to just pull him up
00:29:24and then I'll tell the stewards
00:29:26that the horse didn't feel well.
00:29:28But let's just say that the horse
00:29:30actually feels okay,
00:29:32but he happens to get hurt.
00:29:34Well, the fact that he gets hurt
00:29:36doesn't necessarily mean
00:29:38that it has to be a bad injury,
00:29:40so he doesn't have to fall.
00:29:42But let's say that the horse
00:29:44end up really getting hurt
00:29:46when he falls.
00:29:48Well, if I fall,
00:29:50and I honestly went into the joke room
00:29:52feeling so much better
00:29:54and I don't remember what the horse did,
00:29:56but the horse was fine.
00:29:58So, but it was really a big lesson for me
00:30:00and something that I kind of
00:30:02went back to this place
00:30:04of trying to have this approach
00:30:06with other cases that were similar
00:30:08instead of really trying to forget about it
00:30:10was just kind of looking
00:30:12at this fear in the eyes.
00:30:14That's incredible.
00:30:16I mean, it's so,
00:30:18nobody knows that,
00:30:20obviously, Ramon, you are
00:30:22and Johnny and Richie.
00:30:24I mean, there's just so much thought
00:30:26that goes into it.
00:30:28But when you,
00:30:30we're talking about fear
00:30:32and I kind of want to stay
00:30:34on that topic.
00:30:36When you come back
00:30:38from these injuries
00:30:40and especially now,
00:30:42I feel like,
00:30:44or even then,
00:30:46you're under so much scrutiny,
00:30:48whether it be from the jockey,
00:30:50or even nowadays with social media.
00:30:52How do you work
00:30:54through that pressure?
00:30:56And even when you're coming back
00:30:58off of injury number one,
00:31:00but especially if you're going
00:31:02through a slump,
00:31:04I mean, how do you get out of your head?
00:31:06It's a tough question,
00:31:08but for me,
00:31:10I'll go back to my first major injury.
00:31:12I spent six weeks in the hospital
00:31:14and Pete Ferriola was the leading trainer
00:31:16in New York at the time.
00:31:18And he came to the hospital
00:31:20and he told me,
00:31:22and this was,
00:31:24I was still in a halo.
00:31:26And he said,
00:31:28when you're ready to ride,
00:31:30I will put you on your first winner.
00:31:32So you need the support
00:31:34of people that believe in you
00:31:36and trainers and owners
00:31:38that'll give you the opportunity.
00:31:40And he gave me the first horse
00:31:42and the only thing he said
00:31:44to me in the paddock
00:31:46was just don't fall off.
00:31:48And the horse won by six
00:31:50horses in my career,
00:31:52whether it was Kieran McLaughlin,
00:31:54whether it was Michael Hushon,
00:31:56whether it was John Kimball,
00:31:58I always had someone I can go to
00:32:00and say, listen,
00:32:02I need to come back winning
00:32:04and they would put me
00:32:06on an ultra live horse
00:32:08to get off the mark winning.
00:32:10And that washes away a lot
00:32:12of your own doubts
00:32:14and then the scrutiny
00:32:16that people are putting you under.
00:32:18For me,
00:32:20it was Carlos,
00:32:22your good friend,
00:32:24Carlos Figueroa, right?
00:32:26Yeah, Figueroa.
00:32:28It was working for Howie Ketcher
00:32:30and I have John DeStefano
00:32:32and I have all the guys
00:32:34that at the beginning of my career
00:32:36got hurt.
00:32:38It's like, don't worry,
00:32:40when you come back,
00:32:42we'll get you rolling.
00:32:44Carlos got me out of my house
00:32:46three weeks,
00:32:48not even three weeks
00:32:50but anyway,
00:32:52Carlos, I cannot do this.
00:32:54I haven't done anything for three weeks.
00:32:56Johnny Kim telling you,
00:32:58you got to get in this horse,
00:33:00he's going to take you around
00:33:02and you're just going to win.
00:33:04So those are the things that you think.
00:33:06So you have somebody telling you,
00:33:08no, no, just come out
00:33:10and just hold on to this horse
00:33:12that you're going to win.
00:33:14So those things you think about it,
00:33:16you know, that you have people
00:33:18supporting you,
00:33:19that you can do the job
00:33:21that I was doing before.
00:33:23So I never thought about
00:33:25discriminating against anybody else
00:33:27who was thinking about me.
00:33:29I was thinking about myself.
00:33:31I always thought,
00:33:33if I wanted to do this,
00:33:35I got to prove it to myself.
00:33:37So that was my mentality
00:33:39and that's been my mentality
00:33:41from day one.
00:33:43If I'm going to do this,
00:33:45I got to do it well
00:33:47or the fear for me is
00:33:49and that's been my fear
00:33:51that I will go back
00:33:53and I cannot do it
00:33:55the way I wanted to do it.
00:33:57Not because anybody is telling me
00:33:59or thinking, how can I do it?
00:34:01It's about me mentally
00:34:03that I can do the job
00:34:05the way I wanted to do it.
00:34:07And I think that's what has
00:34:09worked for me all these years.
00:34:11I feel like in my case,
00:34:13the first time that I got hurt,
00:34:15I mean, being very young
00:34:17and I feel like it was like,
00:34:19I don't know,
00:34:21I feel like I was Superman.
00:34:23That's not going to happen to me.
00:34:25And so, and then
00:34:27anytime that I broke a bone
00:34:29and I came back,
00:34:31there was always a little bit
00:34:33of concern or a little bit of fear
00:34:35the first few months
00:34:37and something that
00:34:39I wasn't even thinking about it.
00:34:41It was just sort of
00:34:43in the back of your mind,
00:34:45but you go back to
00:34:47you have done it so many times
00:34:49to come back and
00:34:51start winning quick,
00:34:53because although
00:34:55I try not to be
00:34:57too worried about what people were thinking,
00:34:59I couldn't help it because
00:35:01my business depends on me doing well
00:35:03and what people thought of me as a jockey.
00:35:05So I remember one of my last injuries,
00:35:07one of the reporters in Iraq
00:35:09came to the jockey's room
00:35:11after I rode a race
00:35:13and I just shortly,
00:35:15I mean, I had just been riding a few days
00:35:17and he said,
00:35:19you know that you're off for 17
00:35:21after you came back.
00:35:23What's happening? Are you afraid?
00:35:25I'm like thinking, oh my God,
00:35:27you kidding me?
00:35:29So that's something that it was concerning
00:35:31to me to come back and be in a slump
00:35:33because I didn't want people to think,
00:35:35oh, he's not the same.
00:35:37But yes, it's just the nature of the business.
00:35:39Such a great conversation
00:35:41with the jockeys that we're having so far, Christina.
00:35:43But we want to take a quick pause
00:35:45for a word from our sponsors.
00:35:47And First Racing,
00:35:49we're so happy that they're on board.
00:35:51Thrilled.
00:35:53And I think it's so appropriate.
00:35:55I had said to you earlier
00:35:57that I thought it was appropriate
00:35:59that First Racing is the first one on board
00:36:01because obviously I had experience.
00:36:03I was working at Gulfstream Park
00:36:05for a few seasons as their on-air host
00:36:07and one of their commentators.
00:36:09You also worked at Gulfstream.
00:36:11You also worked at Laurel.
00:36:13So you one-upped me there.
00:36:15But again, we have a lot of,
00:36:17not only a relationship with First Racing,
00:36:19but also with Laurel.
00:36:21And it's a very big month
00:36:23for First Racing as well.
00:36:25Obviously at Gulfstream Park,
00:36:27the Pegasus World Cup is coming up
00:36:29and obviously a really,
00:36:31really important way to kick off the year,
00:36:33not only for First Racing,
00:36:35but also for the industry as a whole.
00:36:37You know, Gabby,
00:36:39I was really lucky to be there
00:36:41for the first year,
00:36:43actually for the first few years
00:36:45and they kicked it off in style,
00:36:47really had a horse like Arrogate
00:36:49like they say in the business,
00:36:51ticked all the boxes in tremendous.
00:36:53Then they had Gunrunner.
00:36:55Like you couldn't outdo Arrogate.
00:36:57You had to have a horse like Gunrunner
00:36:59and City of Light.
00:37:01They've just really had good,
00:37:03good horses and they've always just evolved.
00:37:05They've taken another step in the last few years.
00:37:07They added a turf race.
00:37:09Now they're adding a filly and mare race on the turf.
00:37:11So really,
00:37:13they've been really trying to stay ahead of the curve
00:37:15and just brought in their package.
00:37:17And it's incredible how this race
00:37:19can have horses in training.
00:37:21And that's what we see
00:37:23from several of the horses
00:37:25that are invited this year
00:37:27where we could potentially
00:37:29get the chance to see
00:37:31Nick's go before he goes off
00:37:33to his next career as a stallion
00:37:35at TaylorMade.
00:37:37You make a really great point.
00:37:39Many of these horses traditionally
00:37:41would just retire after the Breeders' Cup
00:37:43if that's what was in the program
00:37:45for them to enter stud the next season.
00:37:47But now because it's just right around the corner,
00:37:49they keep them in training.
00:37:51Sometimes they'll give them a month off,
00:37:53maybe a freshener in between,
00:37:55but they'll bring them back
00:37:57either for a next campaign
00:37:59or they'll retire them.
00:38:01So again, following suite,
00:38:03like we said,
00:38:05we've had great horses coming into this race.
00:38:07We still have to get the good horses
00:38:09before they go off to stud
00:38:11or before they go off
00:38:13into other areas of the world
00:38:15to run in these big races.
00:38:17But it really is a great series
00:38:19appetizer,
00:38:21but it kind of is
00:38:23for the winter down at Gulfstream
00:38:25because obviously that does kick off
00:38:27the Triple Crown campaign,
00:38:29the Derby prep races you get down there
00:38:31and also the Oaks prep races.
00:38:33So although it's fireworks in January,
00:38:35there's a lot more to come
00:38:37for the winter at Gulfstream.
00:38:39Well, we've seen a lot of these horses.
00:38:41Actually, they start off
00:38:43at Gulfstream in the winter.
00:38:45Many of the three-year-olds,
00:38:47they kick off,
00:38:49to go on to the other Triple Crown races.
00:38:51So, yes, it is very meaningful,
00:38:53but in all divisions,
00:38:55whether it's for the Phillies classics
00:38:57or for the Colts
00:38:59or going on into other divisions,
00:39:01whether it's going to be
00:39:03the main turf horses of the season
00:39:05or any category, really,
00:39:07you get a very, very good foundation
00:39:09here at Gulfstream
00:39:11and it really is the marquee event
00:39:13for the racetrack.
00:39:15Well, we're looking forward
00:39:17to the winter at Gulfstream,
00:39:19the First Racing Gate.
00:39:21First Racing does so much
00:39:23for the sport
00:39:25and they do so much for us as well.
00:39:27Thank you so much to First Racing
00:39:29to be our sponsor on Let's Talk.
00:39:31We're going to pause for a second
00:39:33for a quick word from First.
00:39:35Pegasus, the divine-winged horse
00:39:37that flew with heroes
00:39:39mounted for glory.
00:39:41Arrogant,
00:39:43gunrunner, city of light,
00:39:45mucho gusto,
00:39:47and Knicks go.
00:39:49The thunder and the lightning
00:39:51on the track,
00:39:53energy in the stands,
00:39:55vibe,
00:39:57fashion,
00:39:59entertainment,
00:40:01all for one.
00:40:03Thank you very much
00:40:05to our sponsor, First Racing.
00:40:07Very pleased to have them on board.
00:40:09And now we turn back
00:40:11to our conversation with the jockeys.
00:40:13And I asked Richie Migliore,
00:40:15what is the relationship
00:40:17between riders in the jocks room?
00:40:19And how important is that relation
00:40:21in terms of health and safety
00:40:23on the track?
00:40:25I think it's important.
00:40:27I think, you know,
00:40:29older riders understand
00:40:31that they make it safer out there
00:40:33if they're helping younger guys
00:40:35learn the things they should do
00:40:37and shouldn't do,
00:40:39the places they should be
00:40:41and shouldn't be.
00:40:43So it's not only their responsibility,
00:40:45it just makes it better
00:40:47for them as well.
00:40:49Well, you know what I'm saying,
00:40:51that you have enough confidence
00:40:53in your own abilities
00:40:55that you're not worried
00:40:57about helping someone else to improve.
00:40:59You know, you're very confident
00:41:01in what you can do.
00:41:03And it's not just
00:41:05the jockeys room community.
00:41:07And listen, it's like
00:41:09a dysfunctional family at times.
00:41:11There's guys you get on with
00:41:13that you really genuinely like
00:41:15and there's guys that you just
00:41:17don't really care for.
00:41:19It's like a locker room,
00:41:21but there's an old adage
00:41:23if you let two old dogs
00:41:25chew on each other for a little while,
00:41:27they'll figure out a way
00:41:29to just stay apart.
00:41:31If you constantly are
00:41:33pulling them apart,
00:41:35they're always going to
00:41:37want to get at each other.
00:41:39So in the jockeys room,
00:41:41you got guys that you're
00:41:43just not going to get on with
00:41:45and you figure out a way
00:41:47to kind of just steer clear
00:41:49of the jockeys room.
00:41:51And I was a big
00:41:53Braulio Baeza fan
00:41:55and Carlos is a big
00:41:57Angel Cordero fan
00:41:58and who was the best.
00:42:00And then we all made it
00:42:02in the industry.
00:42:04And then like Johnny
00:42:06to have that connection.
00:42:08It's such a close-knit
00:42:10community in so many ways
00:42:12because you have connections
00:42:14to people, whether you know
00:42:16them directly or through
00:42:17somebody else.
00:42:19And you always have the doubters.
00:42:21So I always focus
00:42:23on the people who want to
00:42:25give me the opportunity
00:42:27and forget about those
00:42:29people who doubted it.
00:42:31From the get-go,
00:42:33I can tell you Mochera
00:42:35told Angel after a week being
00:42:37actually a week, two weeks
00:42:38riding in New York,
00:42:40and I didn't speak the language
00:42:42so I didn't know what the heck
00:42:44he was telling him.
00:42:46And my friend Peter was
00:42:47like, you suck.
00:42:48You're never going to make
00:42:49it here in New York.
00:42:50And I don't know what
00:42:51the heck he was saying.
00:42:52So I asked my friend Peter,
00:42:53Peter, what is this?
00:42:54Ah, you don't want to know.
00:42:55Come on, come on.
00:42:56What is he saying about me?
00:42:57He's like, he told you
00:42:58that you suck.
00:42:59You're never going to make
00:43:00it here in New York.
00:43:01So those things that,
00:43:03you know, I kind of
00:43:05stay away from it
00:43:06and then I stay, you know,
00:43:07with people who are
00:43:08really supporting you,
00:43:09giving you the good vibes
00:43:10and all that.
00:43:11So Carlos was one of
00:43:12those from the get-go
00:43:13when I was a bug boy
00:43:14that, you know,
00:43:15was working for
00:43:17Microsoft because
00:43:18I didn't speak any
00:43:19other language.
00:43:20So help me with
00:43:21Tetra and tell me,
00:43:22you know, you got to
00:43:23write this, you got to
00:43:24write that one.
00:43:25You know, at least
00:43:26this one you can win.
00:43:27So you concentrate
00:43:28the people who are
00:43:29really trying to help
00:43:30you and be positive.
00:43:31So it's a balance
00:43:32that you have to take
00:43:33all your career,
00:43:34no matter what.
00:43:35And I'm sure
00:43:36in any job,
00:43:37in any industry,
00:43:38it's like that.
00:43:39There are people
00:43:40who are going to be
00:43:41negative about you
00:43:42and other ones are
00:43:43going to be, you know,
00:43:44very positive
00:43:45and very supportive.
00:43:46And I think it's
00:43:47the commodity
00:43:48of this family
00:43:49like in the jockeys
00:43:50room, which is
00:43:51really crazy
00:43:52when you think
00:43:53about that.
00:43:54Each of us
00:43:55is our own team,
00:43:56but at the same time
00:43:57we're in the same
00:43:58locker room.
00:43:59So we're out there
00:44:00and trying to do
00:44:01our job,
00:44:02trying to protect
00:44:03our ground,
00:44:04but at the same time
00:44:05there is this
00:44:06line and these
00:44:07unwritten rules
00:44:08that you don't want
00:44:09to break, you know,
00:44:10when it comes to safety.
00:44:11And so,
00:44:12and I think that
00:44:13for example,
00:44:14in New York,
00:44:15they do a very
00:44:16good job.
00:44:17Once in a while
00:44:18there's a guy
00:44:19who thinks that
00:44:20he's smarter
00:44:21than the rest
00:44:22and he wants to
00:44:23cross this line
00:44:24and it's something
00:44:25that you don't even
00:44:26talk about,
00:44:27but he's going to
00:44:28learn a lesson,
00:44:29you know,
00:44:30and they're going
00:44:31to do it with class,
00:44:32but he's going to learn
00:44:33that that doesn't
00:44:34fly in New York,
00:44:35let's just say.
00:44:36Now,
00:44:37when it comes to
00:44:38the support
00:44:39or the perception
00:44:40of how people
00:44:41see you outside
00:44:42the jockeys room
00:44:43but within the sport,
00:44:45at least I learned
00:44:46the importance
00:44:47of really
00:44:49being detached
00:44:50to the opinion
00:44:51of others.
00:44:52Although the opinion
00:44:53is important
00:44:54and you want the opinion
00:44:55to be good
00:44:56because you're doing
00:44:57very well,
00:44:58at the same time
00:44:59you cannot let
00:45:00your emotions
00:45:01be dictated by
00:45:02how other people
00:45:03feel about you.
00:45:04And I'll give you
00:45:05an example.
00:45:06So,
00:45:07a good friend of mine
00:45:08who was a great supporter,
00:45:09Richard Englander,
00:45:10and I will never
00:45:11forget this.
00:45:12He had me riding
00:45:13a really good horse
00:45:14that he had
00:45:15that I actually
00:45:16even went to ride
00:45:17in Dubai
00:45:18by the name
00:45:19of my cousin Matt.
00:45:20And the only time
00:45:21in my whole career
00:45:22that I rode
00:45:23a match race,
00:45:24it was in Delaware Park,
00:45:25it rained a lot that day
00:45:26and the race crashed
00:45:27down to two horses,
00:45:28my cousin Matt
00:45:29and another horse.
00:45:30So,
00:45:31my cousin Matt
00:45:32typically in a normal race
00:45:33he will be like
00:45:34mid-pack or stocking,
00:45:35you know,
00:45:36third form.
00:45:37And in this race
00:45:38the strategy completely changed.
00:45:39I said,
00:45:40there's only one other horse,
00:45:41we're going to go at it.
00:45:42So,
00:45:43and we went at it
00:45:44head-to-head.
00:45:45I happened to get lucky
00:45:46and I won the race
00:45:47by a nose.
00:45:48So, I said,
00:45:49great.
00:45:50So,
00:45:51you won't believe
00:45:52he called my agent
00:45:53and said,
00:45:54what the heck
00:45:55is Ramon doing?
00:45:56That was awful.
00:45:57He's not riding the same
00:45:58and blah, blah, blah.
00:45:59I'm like thinking,
00:46:00are you kidding me?
00:46:01And so,
00:46:02if I would have let
00:46:03his perception on me
00:46:04influence how I felt,
00:46:05it would have been
00:46:06a roller coaster
00:46:07of emotions.
00:46:08I was very aware
00:46:09of when I was doing things
00:46:10by,
00:46:11and believe me,
00:46:12I was kind of
00:46:13pretty hard on myself
00:46:14when I made a mistake.
00:46:15And it would be
00:46:16good listening to other people
00:46:17when there was
00:46:18criticism,
00:46:19even if it was
00:46:20negative criticism,
00:46:21that I knew that it was
00:46:22grounded and it was
00:46:23well formed.
00:46:24But when I have people
00:46:25who will elevate me
00:46:26and then
00:46:27take me down
00:46:28just as fast
00:46:29because
00:46:30of how things
00:46:31were going for them,
00:46:32I certainly thought
00:46:33that it was important
00:46:34to detach
00:46:35myself from
00:46:36those opinions.
00:46:37Absolutely.
00:46:38You know,
00:46:39you know what they say
00:46:40about
00:46:41opinions.
00:46:42I'll leave it at that.
00:46:43But
00:46:44I learned that lesson
00:46:45very, very young.
00:46:46I was 14 years old.
00:46:47I lived in Barn 46
00:46:48at Belmont.
00:46:49Loretta Lustig,
00:46:50John Kimmel's
00:46:51assistant,
00:46:52it's her office now.
00:46:53That was my room
00:46:54at the track.
00:46:55And we ran a horse
00:46:56in the last race
00:46:57and I idolized
00:46:58Steve Cawthon.
00:46:59I wanted to be
00:47:00like Steve Cawthon.
00:47:01He had been
00:47:02an apprentice
00:47:03four years before me.
00:47:04And I see
00:47:05Lenny Goodman
00:47:06who had been his agent
00:47:07coming down the escalator
00:47:08in the lobby of Belmont.
00:47:09He had his entourage
00:47:10around him.
00:47:11You know,
00:47:12I'm a kid from Brooklyn.
00:47:13I walked up to him
00:47:14probably a little too cocky
00:47:15and I said,
00:47:16Mr. Goodman,
00:47:17my name's Richie Migliore.
00:47:18I'm going to be just
00:47:19as good as Steve Cawthon
00:47:20and I want you
00:47:21to be my agent.
00:47:22And I stuck out my hand.
00:47:23I shook his hand
00:47:24and I remember
00:47:25he had this big pinky ring
00:47:26and kind of held my hand
00:47:27and looked at the guys
00:47:28around me and said,
00:47:29kid,
00:47:30as big as your hands
00:47:31and feet are,
00:47:32he goes,
00:47:33I got a friend
00:47:34who owns a construction company.
00:47:35I'll get you a job
00:47:36as a bricklayer.
00:47:37I cried all the way
00:47:38back to my room.
00:47:39I said,
00:47:40I'm going to call
00:47:41my oldest brother
00:47:42and come take me home.
00:47:43The best agent
00:47:44in the world
00:47:45just told me
00:47:46I'm going to be a bricklayer.
00:47:47Well,
00:47:48that was September of 1980.
00:47:49August of 1981,
00:47:50I broke Steve Cawthon's
00:47:51money record
00:47:52and Joe Shea,
00:47:53who had been
00:47:54Ron Turcotte's agent,
00:47:55was my agent.
00:47:56But they went right
00:47:57to Lenny Goodman
00:47:58who had Jeffrey Fell's
00:47:59book at the time.
00:48:00Hey,
00:48:01what about this kid?
00:48:02Oh,
00:48:03I always knew
00:48:04he was going to be good.
00:48:05And I said it right there
00:48:06and the witness said,
00:48:07no,
00:48:08you've got to be strong
00:48:09enough to believe
00:48:10in yourself
00:48:11and keep going forward.
00:48:12But I think
00:48:13with your experience now,
00:48:14all of your experience,
00:48:15you obviously have
00:48:16many miles
00:48:17under you
00:48:18as a jockey.
00:48:19How important
00:48:20is it to also
00:48:21to pass it on?
00:48:22I know you touched on it,
00:48:23Johnny,
00:48:24all of you actually
00:48:25touched on this
00:48:26in terms of the younger
00:48:27riders coming up today
00:48:28because we do see it
00:48:29at times.
00:48:30We see some younger riders.
00:48:31They don't have
00:48:32the benefit
00:48:33of the experience
00:48:34that you guys have had
00:48:35in terms of good or bad.
00:48:36So sometimes
00:48:37they do some
00:48:38questionable things.
00:48:39Do you guys pull them up?
00:48:40Do you take them
00:48:41in the jock's room?
00:48:42And now,
00:48:43especially Richie
00:48:44and also Ramon,
00:48:45you guys are no longer riding.
00:48:46But will you take the time
00:48:47to go talk to a jock
00:48:48and try to
00:48:49maybe push them
00:48:50in another direction?
00:48:51Well,
00:48:52I do that a lot.
00:48:53You know,
00:48:54I still do it.
00:48:55So every time I see
00:48:56a kid who,
00:48:57you know,
00:48:58has some talent
00:48:59and they want to
00:49:00just learn
00:49:01and trying to
00:49:02teach them the right way.
00:49:03I mean,
00:49:04we touched about this
00:49:05and Richie talked about it.
00:49:06It's like,
00:49:07the more you teach
00:49:08those kids,
00:49:09the safer it is
00:49:10for you to ride.
00:49:11You know,
00:49:12you want to ride
00:49:13with the better,
00:49:14more knowledgeable
00:49:15than the kids
00:49:16who are very reckless.
00:49:17You know,
00:49:18so it makes it a lot easier
00:49:19to ride with people
00:49:20like that.
00:49:21And those who are reckless
00:49:22who don't want to learn,
00:49:23then those are the ones
00:49:24who make the viability.
00:49:25So,
00:49:26you know,
00:49:27it makes it really,
00:49:28really hard to ride with
00:49:29and scary to,
00:49:30you know,
00:49:31to ride with
00:49:32because they don't want
00:49:33to listen,
00:49:34they don't want to learn.
00:49:35They don't want to learn
00:49:36the right way
00:49:37when we are telling them
00:49:38that, you know,
00:49:39you're doing it wrong.
00:49:40So,
00:49:41it's hard.
00:49:42So,
00:49:43some of them listen
00:49:44and some of them won't.
00:49:45But I'm curious
00:49:46if any of you
00:49:47have had those conversations
00:49:48with young riders
00:49:49in the JAX room
00:49:50or what have you,
00:49:51not only about riding,
00:49:52but the lifestyle
00:49:53and mental health
00:49:54and speaking with them
00:49:55about weight management
00:49:56or money management
00:49:57or just everything
00:49:58that goes along
00:49:59with the lifestyle
00:50:00that they want to do
00:50:01and how to do it.
00:50:02So,
00:50:03I'm curious
00:50:04if any of you
00:50:05have had those conversations
00:50:06with young riders
00:50:07in the JAX room
00:50:08or what have you,
00:50:09not only about riding,
00:50:10but the lifestyle
00:50:11and speaking with them
00:50:12about weight management
00:50:13or money management
00:50:14or just everything
00:50:15that goes along
00:50:16with the lifestyle
00:50:17of being a jockey
00:50:18because it is so much more
00:50:19than just the riding aspect.
00:50:20I've been lucky enough
00:50:21that I have a lot of people
00:50:22helping me along
00:50:23the way
00:50:24to get to
00:50:25where I am right now.
00:50:26So,
00:50:27yes,
00:50:28I do that
00:50:29and every time
00:50:30I see a kid
00:50:31who's doing well
00:50:32or not even doing well
00:50:34in accounting
00:50:35or anything like that,
00:50:36they make sure
00:50:37that they go
00:50:38to the right people
00:50:39because those guys
00:50:40who are making money
00:50:41that they get advantage
00:50:42of it right away.
00:50:43So,
00:50:44you try to guide them
00:50:45the right way
00:50:46and hopefully
00:50:47that they follow up
00:50:48and do the things
00:50:49that they need to do.
00:50:50Again,
00:50:51there are some of them
00:50:52they listen
00:50:53and some of them
00:50:54they don't
00:50:55because they have
00:50:56their own families
00:50:57and people who are
00:50:58on their ears
00:50:59and they just go on
00:51:00and do their own things
00:51:01and whatever
00:51:02the families are,
00:51:03tell them to do
00:51:04and obviously
00:51:05for the most part
00:51:06they're there
00:51:07around.
00:51:08We had a great program
00:51:09at the
00:51:10New York Racing Association
00:51:11when I was there full-time
00:51:12after my riding career
00:51:13ended.
00:51:14I went to work
00:51:15for them in 2011.
00:51:16The Apprentice Jockey Program
00:51:17and we met
00:51:18every Sunday morning
00:51:19for a few hours.
00:51:20It was mandatory.
00:51:21They had to meet
00:51:22with me every Sunday morning
00:51:23and obviously
00:51:24we went over
00:51:25race replays
00:51:26and looked at
00:51:27different things
00:51:28that they either did well
00:51:29or they did,
00:51:30you know,
00:51:31made mistakes
00:51:32but I felt
00:51:33it was important
00:51:34to make it
00:51:35more comprehensive.
00:51:36I had a friend of mine
00:51:37Jessica Glacius
00:51:38a money manager
00:51:39come in
00:51:40talk to them
00:51:41about money
00:51:42talk to them
00:51:43about saving money
00:51:44talk to them
00:51:45about having a partner
00:51:46named Uncle Sam
00:51:47that when they get
00:51:48a check for $20,000
00:51:49it's not all their money
00:51:50that they've got to
00:51:51put money aside
00:51:52and pay taxes
00:51:53talk,
00:51:54you know,
00:51:55had a nutritionist
00:51:56come in
00:51:57had people come
00:51:58down from the press department
00:51:59how to communicate
00:52:00how to talk
00:52:01for myself
00:52:02I learned so much
00:52:03about how
00:52:04to educate
00:52:05young riders
00:52:06and
00:52:07you don't
00:52:08call a kid out
00:52:09for a mistake
00:52:10in front of his peers
00:52:11you talk about
00:52:12generalities
00:52:13you talk about
00:52:14things they did well
00:52:15and then say
00:52:16I need to see you
00:52:17afterwards
00:52:18and then pull up
00:52:19the film
00:52:20because you don't
00:52:21want to make them
00:52:22defensive
00:52:23or make them
00:52:24embarrassed
00:52:25in front of their peers
00:52:26they're young guys
00:52:27a jockey has to have
00:52:28a certain amount
00:52:29of swagger
00:52:30when I left
00:52:31the program
00:52:32was discontinued
00:52:33which I would
00:52:34love to see
00:52:35because jockeys
00:52:36are the only
00:52:37athlete in the world
00:52:38that we don't have
00:52:39a coach
00:52:40you know
00:52:41a golfer
00:52:42has a swing coach
00:52:43a baseball player
00:52:44has a hitting coach
00:52:45and a fielding coach
00:52:46I mean
00:52:47every athlete
00:52:48has a coach
00:52:49jockey's not so much
00:52:50it's more about
00:52:51guys like Johnny
00:52:52Ramon
00:52:53myself
00:52:54taking on
00:52:55that responsibility
00:52:56now obviously
00:52:57I did it in a more
00:52:58formal role
00:52:59but it was a satisfying
00:53:00job
00:53:01or part of my job
00:53:02at NIRA
00:53:03at that time
00:53:04there's one thing
00:53:05that
00:53:06while talking to
00:53:07their peers
00:53:08or maybe
00:53:09an experienced jockey
00:53:10it is great
00:53:11when the
00:53:12apprentice
00:53:13in this case
00:53:14is open
00:53:15about their doubts
00:53:16listen
00:53:17I am not sure
00:53:18about this
00:53:19or that
00:53:20or sometime
00:53:21I don't know
00:53:22if I'm gonna make it
00:53:23and that is
00:53:24important
00:53:25however
00:53:26it doesn't happen
00:53:27often
00:53:28I have
00:53:29certain concerns
00:53:30that I have
00:53:31or doubts
00:53:32maybe
00:53:33I will be
00:53:34seen as
00:53:35lesser
00:53:36or is somebody
00:53:37weak
00:53:38now
00:53:39it is great
00:53:40to acquire
00:53:41or to receive
00:53:42some great tools
00:53:43to be able
00:53:44to manage
00:53:45or navigate
00:53:46these waters
00:53:47when these
00:53:48doubts come
00:53:49at the same time
00:53:50by now
00:53:51I realize
00:53:52that
00:53:53there are certain
00:53:54things that
00:53:55you cannot teach
00:53:56somebody
00:53:57I didn't talk here
00:53:58because we're talking
00:53:59about jockeys
00:54:00and just being an athlete
00:54:01just the physical aspect
00:54:02and how difficult it is
00:54:03and whether it is
00:54:04the finesse
00:54:05or the style
00:54:06on top of a horse
00:54:07or the physical aspect
00:54:08but
00:54:09that is
00:54:10big time
00:54:11secondary
00:54:12when it comes
00:54:13to having
00:54:14a successful
00:54:15long career
00:54:16to the ability
00:54:17to have a strong
00:54:18mental health
00:54:19and to be just
00:54:20that mental strength
00:54:21is so so important
00:54:22and is something
00:54:23that you achieve
00:54:24just by
00:54:25doing the work
00:54:26and sometimes
00:54:27your
00:54:28best asset
00:54:29can be your
00:54:30worst enemy
00:54:31which is your own mind
00:54:32and for that
00:54:33we definitely need
00:54:34support
00:54:35to be great
00:54:36to have people
00:54:37who will come
00:54:38and speak to
00:54:39these jockeys
00:54:40about you know
00:54:41coaches
00:54:42about different
00:54:43things that they
00:54:44are going through
00:54:45and let them know
00:54:46that that's normal
00:54:47and more importantly
00:54:48then teach them
00:54:49and give them
00:54:50the tools
00:54:51as to how
00:54:52to be able
00:54:53to overcome
00:54:54these difficulties
00:54:55and to be able
00:54:56to overcome
00:54:57these
00:54:58obstacles
00:54:59and to be able
00:55:00to overcome
00:55:01these
00:55:02obstacles
00:55:03and to be able
00:55:04to overcome
00:55:05these
00:55:06obstacles
00:55:07and to be able
00:55:08to overcome
00:55:09these
00:55:10obstacles
00:55:11and to be able
00:55:12to overcome
00:55:13these
00:55:14obstacles
00:55:15and to be able
00:55:16to overcome
00:55:17these
00:55:18obstacles
00:55:19and to be able
00:55:20to overcome
00:55:21these
00:55:22obstacles
00:55:23and to be able
00:55:25to overcome
00:55:26these
00:55:27obstacles
00:55:28and to survive
00:55:29and to survive
00:55:30this
00:55:31uncertainty
00:55:32it's
00:55:33really
00:55:34just
00:55:35a speech
00:55:36it's
00:55:37not
00:55:38a motto
00:55:39it's not
00:55:40a dream
00:55:41it's not
00:55:42reality
00:55:43it's not
00:55:44a vision
00:55:45it's not
00:55:46a goal
00:55:47it's not
00:55:48faith
00:55:49or thought
00:55:50or an
00:55:51objection
00:55:52it's not
00:55:53a year
00:55:54Richard McLeory, one of these looks phenomenal.
00:55:57But I did because I think mental health is so important.
00:56:02So I just was actually reading an article recently.
00:56:06Simone Biles is actually named a Time Magazine's
00:56:10Athlete of the Year for what she did
00:56:12and coming out and exposing what she went through at the Olympics
00:56:17and mental health.
00:56:18And there's definitely been kind of an undercurrent
00:56:22the theme of mental health here.
00:56:24But if anybody has a specific story
00:56:29that might be helpful for someone who is watching this
00:56:33and if you kind of went through a dark time
00:56:36and what those tools were.
00:56:37Ramon, I'm so happy that you kind of mentioned
00:56:40teaching people tools and letting them know the tools
00:56:43that you have used to work through problems.
00:56:47And I'm just curious if any of you
00:56:49have a story and what tools you might
00:56:51have used during that time.
00:56:53I remember one day at aqueduct, I won four races that day
00:56:56and I won the stake.
00:56:58And in the last race, I made a big mistake.
00:57:01It was a $10,000 claimer.
00:57:02I think I was over anticipating winning
00:57:05my fifth race of the day.
00:57:07It's like a big number.
00:57:08It's kind of like a magic number to win five in a day
00:57:11and made a move I shouldn't have made.
00:57:14I wound up getting beat in the nose
00:57:15and the horse was the best horse.
00:57:17So in my mind driving home, forget the four I won,
00:57:22that race exposed me, that I was exposed
00:57:24that I wasn't a good rider,
00:57:25that I had everybody fooled up until that point.
00:57:28That was the prevailing thought in my head.
00:57:31Went home and my wife Carmela was a great day
00:57:33and terrible day and I was upset
00:57:36because I got beat in the nose on a horse
00:57:37that should not have lost.
00:57:39Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep that night.
00:57:41Three o'clock in the morning, she comes down to the den
00:57:43and I'm watching race tapes.
00:57:45And she's like, what's going on with you?
00:57:47And I was like, I'm exposed.
00:57:49People saw I'm not a good rider.
00:57:51And she talked to me straight up
00:57:54and you need help with this.
00:57:55And I went to a sports psychologist
00:57:58and I was able to get out my fears.
00:58:01There was always an undercurrent for me
00:58:02that I was never good enough.
00:58:04I didn't come from a horse background.
00:58:05I came from the city.
00:58:07Everything I did, I was always a struggle.
00:58:08I felt like to get to where I wanted to be.
00:58:11And just to really be able to look at it honestly
00:58:13with yourself and go, wow, wait a second,
00:58:15you compete on the toughest circuit in the world
00:58:19day in, day out, year after year.
00:58:20And you've established yourself.
00:58:23You don't continually have to prove,
00:58:25you're never gonna be perfect
00:58:27and you're gonna make mistakes
00:58:28and it's okay to make mistakes.
00:58:29It doesn't mean that it's the end of the world
00:58:31and now you're no good.
00:58:32I had no middle ground.
00:58:34I was either on top of it
00:58:36or I really felt like I just wasn't good enough.
00:58:42I have to say that I went through the same things.
00:58:44I think we all go through that.
00:58:46The only thing of mine is that I'm very spoken.
00:58:49I'd be in the jackets and tell them how stupid I am
00:58:51or how dumb I was and talk about it.
00:58:55And then that's what the guys tell them,
00:58:57oh, Johnny's always crying.
00:58:58Winning all the races, always crying.
00:59:00And I think that was my way of stealing,
00:59:03my way of coping, my way to come out
00:59:07and get out of my system.
00:59:10So just like you, Richie, I will go home
00:59:12and beat myself out of it.
00:59:14I mean, at the beginning,
00:59:15I even remember talking to you, Richie,
00:59:17when it was very early in my career
00:59:19and it could be 92, 93, whatever year it was.
00:59:22And I went to you, it's like, how do you do it, man?
00:59:24How do you do it when you're on top
00:59:25and you don't really want it?
00:59:26And when you do it, it's like,
00:59:28boy, you just gotta keep at it.
00:59:30Just keep running at it.
00:59:31I don't know if you remember, that's like,
00:59:33we just gotta keep at it.
00:59:34That's it.
00:59:35There's gonna be bad days.
00:59:36There are gonna be good days.
00:59:38So you gotta take the good with the bad,
00:59:40the bad with the good and you gotta move on.
00:59:43That was one of my learning lessons that,
00:59:46okay, it happens to everybody,
00:59:48so you gotta keep going.
00:59:50I mean, 93 was one of the,
00:59:52I remember it was one of really good years
00:59:54and all of a sudden going to Accra,
00:59:56I went to a slow time that I wasn't even winning.
01:00:00I think it went for a month.
01:00:02I think it was a month that I was not winning.
01:00:04That's when I went to you, I was like,
01:00:05how do you guys do it, man?
01:00:06How do you put up with all this stuff?
01:00:09So yeah, we all go through it.
01:00:12But I'm the guy who talks about it
01:00:15and I'm very open to it.
01:00:17I don't hide anything.
01:00:20When I was an apprentice in my native land, Venezuela,
01:00:23and I was working real hard to finally get an opportunity
01:00:27to ride a good horse because I was,
01:00:29I think that I have won just one race.
01:00:31So my agent found me a super good mount,
01:00:35a horse that really was even money, he should win.
01:00:38And I was so excited to ride this horse.
01:00:40And it was a training that was extremely successful.
01:00:42I come to the paddock and this horse just stood out.
01:00:46He looked absolutely gorgeous, beautiful.
01:00:49And the trainer gave me the instructions
01:00:50and I went out there and I just messed it up completely.
01:00:54I opened up at the half a mile, just moved too early,
01:00:57opened up like 10, 12 lanes and I just got via the wire.
01:01:01And I remember my family going to see me ride
01:01:04because they live a few hours away from the racetrack.
01:01:08And they went to see me ride
01:01:10and when the race was over,
01:01:12I mean, the whole grandstand was booing me
01:01:14and I come to the jock's room, get changed
01:01:17and go to the car.
01:01:18And as soon as I got into the car,
01:01:19when my family, my siblings were there,
01:01:21I'm just crying and bawling.
01:01:23But I remember thinking the whole ride home
01:01:28because they took me to the apartment where I was staying,
01:01:31thinking, my gosh, if I was able just to turn back time
01:01:34and really ride this horse differently,
01:01:36that would be so awesome.
01:01:37Of course, I don't know, a fantasy that I had in my mind,
01:01:40that would be so great if I could just erase that mistake.
01:01:43As it turned out on the next day,
01:01:45exactly what Harry Maple asked me,
01:01:47that's what I chose to do.
01:01:49Believe me, I just wanted to stay in and sleep.
01:01:52I was depressed, but I got up early and I went to the track
01:01:55and I went to see the trainer
01:01:57that I rode for the day before.
01:01:58And he actually put me on other horses to exercise.
01:02:02And after a few months,
01:02:04he gave me an opportunity to ride two other good horses
01:02:07and I won on both horses.
01:02:10But the point is that by me making that mistake,
01:02:16that absolutely taught me the best lesson
01:02:18that I could have learned in my career,
01:02:20which was to be patient.
01:02:22And that absolutely led to a lot of my accomplishments
01:02:25because it was okay for me to take a hold of a horse
01:02:28and just relax.
01:02:29So what I thought in the moment
01:02:31that was just the worst thing that could have happened to me,
01:02:35it happens to be the greatest blessing in disguise.
01:02:38I always make a big mistake replacing guys
01:02:41if they make a mistake.
01:02:42If they show the guy confidence,
01:02:43they'll ride better for them
01:02:44because they're not tied up in knots.
01:02:46And then young riders,
01:02:48and this is important for young riders to hear,
01:02:51when I wasn't doing good,
01:02:53especially after having some success,
01:02:55I would go home and feel like I couldn't reach out
01:02:57to my friends or my family
01:02:58because I felt like I was letting them down
01:03:00when I wasn't winning.
01:03:01And they were tiptoeing around me
01:03:03because they felt bad that I was maybe in a slump.
01:03:05When that's when you do have to reach out to them
01:03:08and people should reach out to you,
01:03:09but it becomes this odd catch-22.
01:03:12Everybody's trying to tiptoe around each other.
01:03:15And we just go to such a lonely place.
01:03:17So if you're a young rider and you get in a slump,
01:03:20people want to hear from you
01:03:21and you want to hear from them.
01:03:22They're just probably in the same mindset as you,
01:03:25like they don't want to bother you,
01:03:26but that's when you need them.
01:03:28Well, to that point,
01:03:29I think we have a perfect group here
01:03:31to add for our final question.
01:03:34If you're going to advise young riders
01:03:37or jockeys that are coming up behind you
01:03:39in terms of how they should maybe look at or plan for,
01:03:45because as you said, Richie,
01:03:46at the end is going to come,
01:03:48at one, there is going to be a last race.
01:03:49You are not going to,
01:03:50at some point you're not going to ride anymore.
01:03:53How would you advise young riders
01:03:56or people coming up behind you
01:03:57based on your personal experiences?
01:04:01Yeah, for me, I've been one of the lucky ones.
01:04:04I would say that on one of the best ones
01:04:06that are still here riding on my own terms.
01:04:10I do tell them from the get-go,
01:04:11the people that I talk to,
01:04:13it's obviously work hard, learn from everybody,
01:04:16not just from the best,
01:04:17because sometimes if you don't see
01:04:20the people who are making mistakes,
01:04:21you don't want to make those mistakes,
01:04:23then go on to your life.
01:04:25Basically, make sure you open a bank account,
01:04:27make sure you put your money,
01:04:29your savings account, your retirement account,
01:04:32all those things needs to be in place
01:04:33that you will maximize every year,
01:04:36your retirement account.
01:04:37Those are the things that you have to do for a living.
01:04:41You don't know when this is going to end.
01:04:43It's a job that you could be doing really good right now.
01:04:46And just like Richie and Ramon,
01:04:49how to stop riding,
01:04:51and you hope that they have enough
01:04:53or save enough that they can support themselves.
01:04:57So those things that I try to,
01:04:59listen, it's not just a job that you do,
01:05:01but it's also what you do with your job and your life.
01:05:04Outside the jacket's room.
01:05:06Yeah, I think impressing upon them,
01:05:09obviously being responsible with your money
01:05:13and doing the right things in that respect,
01:05:15but kind of instilling the idea that,
01:05:18this is one part of your life
01:05:20and there's a lot more life after you're done riding.
01:05:23I rode for 29 years, I'm 56 now.
01:05:27So you have a lot of other life to live
01:05:30and everything's about balance.
01:05:32I know I spent a great majority of my career out of balance.
01:05:35My career was so much,
01:05:37my focus got better when I had children
01:05:39because you have to obviously be a father
01:05:42and try to do all the right things.
01:05:45But when I was riding,
01:05:46I was looking at life through a keyhole a lot.
01:05:49And when it was over,
01:05:51the things that,
01:05:53hobbies and things like,
01:05:54I don't golf or things like that,
01:05:55but I like to hike.
01:05:56I like the mountains.
01:05:57I like to read.
01:05:59I'm constantly trying to improve intellectually.
01:06:03I only finished the eighth grade,
01:06:05they pay me to talk.
01:06:05So I'm always a little bit insecure
01:06:07that I've got to work on my vocabulary
01:06:09and how I present things.
01:06:10So I think it's about finding a balance.
01:06:13Understanding what you're doing right now is so important
01:06:16and it can set you up for the rest of your life,
01:06:18but also that you have to be well-rounded
01:06:21and you have to find other things that inspire you,
01:06:26that make you passionate.
01:06:28My biggest advice is know about what people can see
01:06:33is what is happening when people cannot see you.
01:06:36What are you doing behind doors?
01:06:38Why are you spending your time into you?
01:06:40Why are you?
01:06:41So those are things extremely important.
01:06:44Why are you eating?
01:06:44Things that you may think that you're fooling other people
01:06:48by doing things that you know that are no,
01:06:51the good thing to do or the right thing to do,
01:06:54but you're only fooling yourself.
01:06:55So everything become a habit,
01:06:57just become good at creating healthy habits
01:07:01because if a jockey wants to pursue a career,
01:07:04to make a few bucks or to make X amount of money
01:07:07to buy something wonderful, good luck to you.
01:07:09But if you want to make out of this a great career,
01:07:12to be a Richard McLeod, to be a Johnny Velasquez,
01:07:14to break records, to win a lot of races,
01:07:16to win a Kentucky Derby, in order to do that,
01:07:19you need to also watch what people don't see.
01:07:23And Ramon, you practice what you preach.
01:07:25Do you guys have anything else you wanna say?
01:07:28I think we're kind of getting to the close here.
01:07:32It's been a lot of fun.
01:07:33Love talking about all this stuff.
01:07:36We're all very blessed to be in an industry that we're in
01:07:41and we need to do a better job of educating people
01:07:46and demystifying what we do.
01:07:49And you're always gonna have a faction of people
01:07:51that are gonna be negative
01:07:52and they're gonna try to tear something down,
01:07:55but the people that just don't know
01:07:57and are open to actually learning something,
01:08:00it's incumbent upon us.
01:08:01It's our responsibility to take that serious
01:08:04and educate and open the door.
01:08:06Let them see actually what a beautiful game it is.
01:08:11Thank you, Gabby and Christina and TDF for having us.
01:08:14This has been great.
01:08:15Thank you guys so much for coming on.
01:08:17And next episode, part two, will be with your wives.
01:08:23Okay.
01:08:25Yes.
01:08:27Christina, obviously mental health
01:08:29has been a major, major topic,
01:08:32especially recently with athletes.
01:08:34And I thought this podcast was incredibly insightful
01:08:38just to hear from all three of them,
01:08:40their experiences and what they've been through.
01:08:43These are people that we're so used to seeing
01:08:45on a day-to-day basis.
01:08:46In many cases, we see them on TV.
01:08:49We will see them at the racetracks
01:08:51and it's really inspiring to hear them talk so personally
01:08:55about their experiences
01:08:57and some really, really intense things
01:08:59that have happened to them.
01:09:00They've gone through injuries.
01:09:01They've gone through very traumatic experiences.
01:09:04They've had the highs, they've had the lows.
01:09:06But Gabby, I really think that I'm like so grateful
01:09:09that they were able to not only come on,
01:09:11but to just be so forthright.
01:09:13And I'm just so appreciative of having these talks
01:09:15with people in our industry.
01:09:16There's one thing that really stood out to me,
01:09:18Johnny Velasquez, we were talking about 2013,
01:09:22the Breeders' Cup when he had that spill and almost died.
01:09:26And he's like, yeah, I almost died, but I'm the lucky one.
01:09:31And just the mindset of these guys too,
01:09:35how they work through bad days,
01:09:40how they work through injuries,
01:09:41how they work through coming back
01:09:43and just public perception
01:09:45and the perception of peers in the industry too.
01:09:49I really hope that people who,
01:09:52athletes or just general people in the industry
01:09:55who might've struggled through something similarly
01:09:58have maybe a couple more tools in their toolkit now.
01:10:02Well, I think these guys are iron men, they're warriors.
01:10:06And I think we'd sometimes don't give them the credit.
01:10:08They're under a lot of pressure, under a lot of stress,
01:10:11and they really have to come up
01:10:12with their own individual unique ways
01:10:14to deal with that stress.
01:10:16So again, I'm just so not only appreciative of them,
01:10:19I admire them and I just,
01:10:21to get to the where they have gotten to
01:10:24and also in this profession, it's hard.
01:10:26So I really think they're great role models, Gabby,
01:10:29for the rest of the industry.
01:10:30Yeah, and like Richie Migliore said,
01:10:33this is a career that it's so unique
01:10:38in that you don't have a coach.
01:10:39You pretty much have to coach yourself
01:10:42and lean on peers and mentors
01:10:44to get you through it.
01:10:45So yeah, I just, I had so much fun with this podcast.
01:10:49Well, and we haven't actually been on this podcast
01:10:52for a little while, Gabby.
01:10:54And as I was saying a little bit earlier,
01:10:57you've been busy in the interim since our last podcast.
01:11:00I have been busy.
01:11:02My son, Crew, was actually born on the 12th of November.
01:11:05So that's kind of the reason
01:11:07behind a little bit of a hiatus.
01:11:09It is chaotic in the Cassie household,
01:11:13but hopefully we can get back on more of a schedule.
01:11:17He has been the best baby.
01:11:19I'm telling you, I am so lucky.
01:11:22He gives us four hour stretches at night.
01:11:24And so that's why I look very well rested
01:11:27because he was a total rock star last night.
01:11:31Well, folks, this is gonna be a name
01:11:32that you're gonna have to remember.
01:11:34Of course, Gabby, a lifelong horsewoman,
01:11:38Norm Cassie, a lifelong horseman.
01:11:40Of course, Crew, we know he's going to at some point
01:11:43be involved in some capacity with horses,
01:11:46but we're so looking forward.
01:11:47I've seen pictures of him.
01:11:48I'm so looking forward to seeing him in the flesh.
01:11:52Yeah, we'll see.
01:11:53Well, Norman said he's already,
01:11:55well, there's already been a compilation
01:11:57of Breeders' Cup classics
01:12:00that has been shown to him many times on YouTube.
01:12:03So that's what's going on.
01:12:05Well, so God bless and God bless.
01:12:08Thank God for a happy, healthy baby.
01:12:11That sleeps for stretches and periods of time.
01:12:13And we'll be seeing him soon.
01:12:14And we'll be seeing all of you soon too.