• 2 days ago
Transcript
00:00:00Flexibility. Convenience. Opportunity. Find your digital advantage in the Keeneland Digital
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00:00:25Good afternoon. Late afternoon. It's 5.08. Tuesday, October 12th. This is the TDN Writers
00:00:32Room presented by Keeneland. Thank God. It's great not to have to do a podcast at the crack
00:00:36of dawn. My name is Joe Bianca. I'm the Associate Editor of the Thoroughbred Daily News. And
00:00:40just to cut off any Red Sox talk at the pass, the real news. Hockey is back tonight, baby.
00:00:47I know you're pumped.
00:00:48Oh, good Lord. Who cares?
00:00:49I know you're pumped.
00:00:50Yeah. I'm Bill Finley, a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News. The Boston Red
00:00:55Sox go into the season. Nobody, myself included, gives them a prayer. They are now four wins
00:01:01away from going to the World Series after beating the Tampa Bay Rays. It's a beautiful
00:01:06thing.
00:01:07Jonathan Green, General Manager of DJ Stable. And the reports of my demise were greatly
00:01:14exaggerated.
00:01:15Not that greatly. Oh, we're glad you're back, man. I'm glad you're feeling better.
00:01:20As you can tell by his beard, we're glad to have him back. And yeah, what a scrappy underdog
00:01:26story. The Red Sox have won like 12 titles in the last 20 years. Who could have ever
00:01:31seen that coming? But congratulations.
00:01:33You're just jealous, Joe.
00:01:35I don't like cheaters. That's my strong feeling.
00:01:39And that's going to be the theme of the show today, apparently. It's going to be the Red
00:01:46Sox and a couple of trainers that are coming up on to, you know, again, law and order.
00:01:51Why play by the rules ever?
00:01:53Exactly. Exactly. One thing, though, before we get any further, it is, you know, you mentioned
00:01:57that the facial hair and I didn't realize it was coming in so gray, but it almost looks
00:02:01like like, Joe, you're the ghost of Christmas present. I'm the ghost of Christmas future.
00:02:06And Bill's just the grim reaper.
00:02:09That went backfiring. I love it. We missed you, man.
00:02:12I believe I was missed. I definitely listen. We can take a serious turn on the show for
00:02:19once. You know, I was vaccinated and this covid bug is as debilitating as can be. I
00:02:26mean, even even when I was at the hospital and and trying to get, you know, medication
00:02:32procedures and stuff like that, just the stories and the people you would see who were there
00:02:37vaccinated and unvaccinated. And unfortunately, some of them will never make it out of the
00:02:41hospital. And I mean, it's just this Delta variant in particular, you know, is is just
00:02:47so debilitating and deadly. So if you haven't gotten vaccinated and you're not sure about
00:02:54it, I can tell you that if I wasn't vaccinated, I probably would not be on this earth anymore.
00:03:00I mean, I got on this. Believe that I was out for two full weeks, even with the vaccine.
00:03:05And I know I'm kind of wimpy when it comes to being sick, but there were definitely nights
00:03:10where I closed my eyes and thought, you know what? This may not happen. Like, I may not
00:03:16get up again. And it was that bad.
00:03:19That's horrifying. We're glad we're glad you're still with us, obviously. Yeah, it's
00:03:24it's no joke. I feel like it's been kind of downplayed by a lot of people. But, you
00:03:30know, if you've been through it, you know, you know how real that is. And we're glad
00:03:33that John is on the mend and we hope it keeps getting better.
00:03:36Yep. Thanks, guys. Thanks for all your support, too. I appreciate it. I got some very nice
00:03:40emails and texts and and direct messages over the past couple of weeks. And I really appreciate
00:03:45that. There were some really funny names also that came through for our naming contest.
00:03:49We'll get into later, which which I thought were cute. There were a couple of them that
00:03:53weren't so cute, like, like, you know, R.I.P. John and poke the body. And Joe and Bill
00:04:00are great, which normally I wouldn't I would agree with. But it was my mom who put that
00:04:04last one in. My mom actually put Joe and Bill are great as a name. It is under 18 letters
00:04:09and spaces. So technically, it could fit. But surprisingly, it hasn't been taken yet.
00:04:14That was the big surprise. But but yeah, I do really appreciate all the kind thoughts
00:04:19and prayers and everything and keep sending them out to other people who are on the mend
00:04:24because they definitely need it. But using using the glasses for the for the sponsor
00:04:29reads today, I want to class it up a little bit. I want to make it a little bit. Yeah,
00:04:33exactly. I want to I want to make a little bit more professional and more bookish, you
00:04:38know, as we get as we get through. And then we have a new sponsor to announce later in
00:04:41the show that we're very excited about. But the TDN Writers Room is presented by Keeneland
00:04:46The Keeneland Fall Meet, which was super exciting opening weekend. We're going to get
00:04:49to Fall Stars weekend. There was a lot of action. Keeneland Fall Meet continues through
00:04:52October 30th. New Keeneland Select accounts receive a special $100 back after you wager
00:04:58$200 on Keeneland Racing this fall. Wager a total of $300 in the first 30 days and earn
00:05:04another $100 back. As if you need another incentive to bet the outstanding racing that's
00:05:09at Keeneland, you can visit KeenelandSelect.com to sign up. All right, so the big the big
00:05:14action over the weekend was at Keeneland. We had a couple of things at Belmont that
00:05:18I want to mention, but you know, the real headliner of the weekend as she's kind of
00:05:22always the headliner when she runs was Latruska in the Judd Monspinster stakes. She has just
00:05:27put together a really remarkable season and she took one step closer to a potential horse
00:05:32of the year title on Sunday. And did she look good? I know that she didn't win by a lot.
00:05:37She only won by like a length and a half. She got a 101 buyer, which isn't anything
00:05:41groundbreaking, but she just she was moving so well, basically had her ears pricked the
00:05:45whole way around. You know, I just she's a real joy to watch and it's it's a credit to
00:05:50Fausto Gutierrez that he's been able to keep her at this level through a long campaign
00:05:54because if you remember, she ran last December in the Rampart stakes at Gulfstream and won
00:06:00by like six and three quarter lengths or something and then came back in January and won the
00:06:04Houston Ladies Classic. Then she ran the Azeri and she ran the Apple Blossom. Then she ran
00:06:09in the Acton Phipps, then the Florida Lee, then the Personal Ensign and now the Spinster.
00:06:14And now she's going to run in the Breeders' Cup Distaff. You know, Bill, this is Bill's
00:06:18hobby horse, but you don't see horses like this, you know, especially top level horses
00:06:22who just run and run and run throughout the year and maintain that top form.
00:06:26So she is an absolute joy to watch. You know, I she's is she the fastest, most brilliant
00:06:32distaffer, star mare we've ever seen? No, but she beats everybody that's in front of
00:06:37her. And, you know, the discussion now becomes whether or not she should run the distaff
00:06:41or in the Classic. She needs to run in the distaff. I'm sorry if they want to win horse
00:06:45of the year, she needs to run in the distaff. And I know it's not, you know, I'm usually
00:06:50in favor of stepping outside the box and taking on the boys. She will get drowned in that
00:06:55Breeders' Cup Classic. That's not a that's not an insult to her. She's terrific. It's
00:06:59just that this year is a particularly strong Breeders' Cup Classic field with a lot of
00:07:04other speed in it. And I think that that that will not bode well for her. So in terms
00:07:09of getting the horse of the year trophy, she should run in the distaff. I think she'll
00:07:12be a heavy favorite. I think she'll win. And that if she does, that'll make seven graded
00:07:16stakes wins on the year, five grade ones. And she's obviously she's undefeated. Or did
00:07:22she lose in the Azares? You might have lost in the Azares.
00:07:25So one loss regardless like that, you know, one loss in seven or eight races is a pretty
00:07:30damn good campaign. But what did you guys think of Latruska?
00:07:33Yeah, I mean, Joe, you're absolutely spot on in this. She's remarkable. And I love the
00:07:38way she's been campaigned. It's almost an old school thing. And I think the fact that
00:07:43the trainer is basically a guy based in Mexico. He's only has a few horses in the United States.
00:07:49I don't think he hasn't drank the Kool-Aid. He can only run four times a year, have to
00:07:53have six weeks off in between all the races. So the campaign she's had is absolutely remarkable.
00:07:58And, you know, she is. She's fun to watch. She's really good. She's easy to pull for.
00:08:03But I would disagree with you on this one point that if she wins, if she goes to the
00:08:08Distap, which she's going to, I think that actually hurts her chances to be horse of
00:08:13the year because the only way she's going to be horse of the year if she wins the Distap
00:08:18is if, you know, someone like Maxfield or a 12 to one shot wins the Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:08:24If Knicks go, Essential Quality, maybe Hot Rod Charlie, any of the famed contenders
00:08:29win the Breeders' Cup Classic, they will be horse of the year and not Latruska.
00:08:33So I see you're shaking your head about that, but I...
00:08:36He is going to win horse of the year if he wins the Classic?
00:08:39What's that?
00:08:40Hot Rod Charlie is going to win horse of the year if he wins the Classic?
00:08:42It's possible. Yeah, it's possible. OK, but let's take Essential Quality and Knicks.
00:08:47Let's take Essential Quality and Knicks. Go. They definitely would. And there's some
00:08:51other, there's other players in there. And I'm the one, you're right, she'll probably
00:08:55lose the Classic, but I'm the one that I want to see someone go for it. I want to see someone
00:09:00just throw a convention to the wind and say, you know, I've got a great horse, I'm going
00:09:04to go out and prove it. You know, pull a Kenny McPhee here and say, you know, we're going
00:09:08to do this because it's like really challenging and we're great sports. But, you know, it's
00:09:13obviously not going to happen. She'll likely win the Distap and we'll see what happens
00:09:17there. But, you know, no matter what she does, even if she were to win the Breeders
00:09:23Distap, which probably that's not going to happen, you can't say enough good things about
00:09:28her.
00:09:29I love the fact that she's old school. She's run, you know, several different racetracks
00:09:34this year. She's won, you know, five in a row, four of them are grade ones and a grade
00:09:38two. And she's the kind of filly you root for because she basically goes to the front
00:09:44and says, come catch me. And nobody can. Nobody in that division has been able to come close,
00:09:49you know, save the one race where she ran second, you know, in the Azaria and just lost
00:09:54in a photo. But as far as the hype of should she run in the Classic or the Distap, it doesn't
00:10:01matter what we think. It matters what the connections think. And basically, the connections
00:10:04have already said, we're going to run her in the Distap. And, you know, guys, don't
00:10:09forget, it's not like the Distap is a half a million dollar race. I mean, it's a couple
00:10:13of million dollars that she's going to be able to run for and ultimately, you know,
00:10:18win. And the thing that hurts me is that, you know, I would love to see her run in the
00:10:23Classic also as a fan, but she would be, you know, she'd be like fourth or fifth choice
00:10:28in that race. And as opposed to running in the Distap and being the, you know, the three
00:10:34to five favorite. And probably if she wins the Distap, that pretty much, you know, eradicates
00:10:40any chances that Kameen is going to be, you know, the Distap horse of the year. So, you
00:10:44know, for me, it's a double, it really is a double whammy in that sense.
00:10:48Hey, John, I just want to bring something up, though. And this is another point. This
00:10:51horse is not owned by an ordinary rich guy. He's not owned by a mere millionaire who might
00:10:56care about winning a purse in the Breeders' Cup Distap. And if, you know, if you're strictly
00:11:01going for the money, yeah, Breeders' Cup Distap makes sense. This guy, you know, he's
00:11:05kind of a guy in the shadows a little bit, you know, for obvious reasons, he's just not
00:11:09out in public. But, you know, it's reported that he's the second richest man in Mexico
00:11:13and is a billionaire with a beat. So, I mean, I couldn't imagine that he cares one bit about
00:11:20what money she earns in the Breeders' Cup, if it's the whatever bout she would win versus
00:11:26the Distap versus the Classic or whatsoever. I mean, you know, I can't even fathom somebody
00:11:31like that, how much money he must have. So, I think the money is actually a good point
00:11:35in this instance.
00:11:37Well, how about, you know, how about he bought her dam with her in utero for $100,000 at
00:11:44Keeneland November in 2015? Like that is pretty remarkable what he's been able to turn that
00:11:50mare into. You know, again, I agree with you guys that it'd be nice to see her take
00:11:55on the boys and then step out of her comfort zone. But I just think in this particular
00:12:00year, that race does not shape up well for her at all. And if she runs up the track,
00:12:05if she runs sixth or seventh, beating, you know, 15 lengths, that's going to take all
00:12:09the bloom off the rose in terms of her getting Horse of the Year. I think it makes sense
00:12:12to go in the Distap. But just look at her record overall. She's now 17 for 22 in her
00:12:17career. And you just don't see horses like that. You know, horses at her caliber, let
00:12:22alone stick around to run 22 times and then win 17 of those races. She's just she's an
00:12:28absolute pleasure to watch. And I guess an incredible, incredible training job this year
00:12:33with her by Fausto Gutierrez. She wanted to mention a couple of other races from the weekend
00:12:36because it wasn't just her. It was a huge weekend at Keeneland, had a bunch of great
00:12:40ones, a couple of interesting performances at Belmont. Two, I want to mention in particular
00:12:45In Love winning the Keeneland Turf Mile. I want to give a shout out to Palo Lobo because
00:12:51this is a guy who back in the day, not even back in the day, like 10, 15 years ago, had
00:12:55a lot of top level horses. I think back to him having Pico Central, who I was a big fan
00:13:00of. And then he kind of fell back a little bit. He can't, you know, he stepped back into
00:13:04the shadows, didn't have a lot of great horses. But now he's got a couple of good ones. And
00:13:08look at what he's done with him. He won the Keeneland Turf Mile for the second straight
00:13:12year with two different horses. He won it with Ivar last year. He was also fourth on
00:13:16Saturday in the Keeneland Turf Mile defending his title. In Love is a nice horse, too. You
00:13:22know, not super well-bred by Agnes Gold, who's a, you know, kind of little-known Japanese
00:13:27bred sire. Big, first big win, first grade one win for the jockey, Alex Achard. So congratulations
00:13:34to him. And I just, I like seeing these kind of lower profile connections jumping up and
00:13:40winning these grade one races. And Paolo Lobo is a guy who can definitely train. I think
00:13:44people might have forgotten that a little bit because he didn't have the top stock in
00:13:47the last decade or so. But he's going to have two good shots in the mile. And I'm looking
00:13:52forward to that. The other horse I wanted to mention, because this was, this was an
00:13:55interesting race, even though it was a short field, was in the Vosburgh on Saturday at
00:13:59Belmont, was Following C. Following C was a horse that I really, really liked earlier
00:14:03in the year. If you remember, he was, he was one of the horses that Spendthrift transferred
00:14:07from Bob Baffert to Todd Pletcher and really came out firing for Todd Pletcher, had this
00:14:12dominant allowance, optional claiming win. And then they, they kind of, you know, they
00:14:17took the bait and they went for that grade one going two turns, never seemed like a horse
00:14:22who wanted to go that far. He was maybe the worst second you'll ever see in the Haskell.
00:14:28He was, he was beating 15 and a half lengths and got put up via DQ because a hot rod Charlie,
00:14:33that's maybe the worst, like most, you know, nondescript second you'll ever see in a grade
00:14:38one. And then I was kind of disappointed with how he ran in the H Allen Jerkins. Like, I
00:14:41know that, you know, no one was really going to mess with life is good. And Jackie's word
00:14:45that day, they were both just so brilliant, but I thought, you know, I thought he should
00:14:48have been a little bit closer to them. So it was great to see him come back and doing
00:14:52what he wants to do. Running six furlongs in the Vosburgh was a very comprehensive win.
00:14:57Baby Yoda, John's favorite horse to do an impression of, unfortunately did not run that
00:15:02well. That was like the first step back he took. He was, he was, he was well beaten in
00:15:06there, but to dust forensic fire like that, who is a, he's a Belmont terror in the Vosburgh.
00:15:11I thought was, was really nice. And I'm looking forward to seeing what he does, what he does
00:15:16the rest of the year. And then maybe we'll see, we'll get to see him as a four-year-old
00:15:19as well. Just a couple other two-year-old performances. Liam's map had another grade
00:15:23one winner with Juju's map in the Alcibiades. She was pretty impressive. Rattle and roll,
00:15:28I thought looked very good in the Claiborne Breeders Futurity. A lot of races this weekend
00:15:32that didn't necessarily get huge figures, but I thought were very visually impressive.
00:15:35Rattle and roll only got an 81 for winning the Breeders Futurity, but I thought visually
00:15:40looked very, very good. I thought on paper that looked like a pretty good field. And
00:15:44then Tiz the bomb on Sunday and the bourbon stakes on a turf at Keeneland broke through
00:15:49the gate and ran off for like a furlong or so. And that's usually the kiss of death.
00:15:54You almost never see horses do that and then run well, let alone win. He got back in the
00:15:59gate, broke great, got a good position and ended up winning that race. So Ken McPete
00:16:04had a big weekend after the summer that he had with the equine herpes quarantine, not
00:16:11getting to run Swiss skydiver in the chuvia like he wanted. I thought it was nice to see
00:16:15him get those two big wins over the weekend. He's probably going to be pretty loaded for
00:16:18the Breeders Cup in terms of two-year-olds. Anything else you guys want to touch on from
00:16:22the weekend's races beyond Latruska?
00:16:24Joe, a couple other observations from the weekend and from a gambling perspective. When
00:16:28do you ever see Chad Brown in a grade one race in New York? The Joe Hurst Classic. How
00:16:34about this? Runs first and second in there and the exacto pays $178. Now that's completely
00:16:41red for you because I didn't like any of those horses in there. And then also he wins the
00:16:46race in Keeneland, the first lady won first and second in there and first lady winner
00:16:51paid $12.60. So a rare opportunity to gamble and actually make some money. Usually in these
00:16:58turf races, it's four to five. The other thing I noticed over the weekend was the very poor
00:17:03performance of the European horses. We talked about it on the show ad nauseum about how
00:17:08much they were just killing it here in the US between Aiden O'Brien and Charlie Appleby.
00:17:13They're winning everything in sight. This weekend, they absolutely laid an egg. Japan
00:17:18was, I believe, fourth or sixth in the Joe Hurst Turf Classic. The Althika came back
00:17:24at a first start after winning those two grade ones in New York, was fourth at Keeneland.
00:17:28And then on top of that, Order of Australia, the winner of last year's Breeders' Cup
00:17:33Mile, last in the Keeneland Mile this weekend. So, you know, just I had decided that the
00:17:38Europeans are going to wipe the floor with the American horses at the Breeders' Cup.
00:17:42What do you do now?
00:17:44Yeah, you guys bring up some excellent points. There were a couple other, you know, wow moments
00:17:49for me this weekend when I was watching the races. Number one was Golden Pal. And Golden
00:17:53Pal coming back and, you know, if you remember last year, he won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile
00:17:58Turf Sprint. And then this year, you know, he won the Quick Call. They brought him over
00:18:02to York and he laid an egg there. And then they brought him back and won at Keeneland
00:18:08the grade two very impressively and is rounding into form at the right time. And there's a
00:18:13horse that you have to root for. I mean, he's really, really well bred. You know, he's bred
00:18:17to sprint, he's bred to run on the turf or the dirt, but he prefers the turf. And it's
00:18:22good to see him rounding into form for Wesley Ward and the Magners and that camp.
00:18:28The other thing is, from a trainer perspective, and when you mentioned some of the accolades
00:18:32that Chad Brown had this weekend, he had a phenomenal weekend. But how about my man,
00:18:36Mark Cassie, who won 10 races this weekend at Woodbine, 10 of them, including 2 graded
00:18:42steak races. The man is on fire up there. He's dominating up there. And, you know, one
00:18:48of the things that we talk about on the show all the time is, hey, if something's not working,
00:18:52why aren't people changing things? And I can give you just a quick kind of microcosm of
00:18:57that. We bought a filly named Art of Almost in January at the Keeneland sale and sponsor
00:19:03Keeneland. And, you know, and it wasn't that she was inexpensive, but we bought her more
00:19:08as a broodmare prospect for $290,000. And we said, you know what, she's in good form.
00:19:13You know, she's a little underweight. Let's go ahead and kind of tweak her and work on
00:19:16her a little bit. And she's a 5-year-old. So, you know, she's obviously she's run 20
00:19:20something times and, you know, was multiple graded steaks placed. Well, Cassie took her
00:19:25and said, you know what, I can put some weight on her. I know she's not eating. They did
00:19:30an ulcer scan and basically she had ulcers. And so we worked on some, you know, different
00:19:37diet for her, different training regimen, make her a little bit happier. Anyway, long
00:19:41story short, we ran her a couple of times and then brought her to Woodbine. And Mark
00:19:44and I were talking and we said, look, she just may have lost the interest in racing.
00:19:49It's not exciting for her. She kind of runs and then stops and kind of just phones it
00:19:53in at that point. So we decided at that point to throw a set of blinkers on, which for a
00:19:585-year-old, you normally don't do. But I tip my cap to the Hall of Fame trainer, Mark
00:20:02Cassie, on this one. We put blinkers on her and she's won two of her last three races,
00:20:06including a grade three and may have just squeezed the lemon and gotten the last bit
00:20:11of juice out of her because now she's a grade three winner and she's made close to $370,000.
00:20:16So, you know, sometimes you can teach an old dog new tricks.
00:20:20Yeah, well, that's what we bank on every week with you, John. We try to teach you new tricks
00:20:24all the time.
00:20:25Can we give a shout out as well to Jeff Ronco winning seven of the nine races on the West
00:20:30Virginia Breeders' Cup Classic Guard and what Boca Chica winning eight out of nine.
00:20:35I know it's not at Belmont, Keeneland, Saratoga or something like that.
00:20:39That was really a phenomenal achievement for those guys.
00:20:41It doesn't matter even if you're in a two-person race. If you win that many times, you're
00:20:46dominating. You're in the zone. No question.
00:20:49Bill is locked in to racing all across America.
00:20:53See, that's why he gets paid the big bucks.
00:20:55The Finer Park and the Charlestown coverage.
00:20:58No one else can do it.
00:21:00But only Bill brings you that kind of across the country coverage.
00:21:04So we appreciate that.
00:21:05And also just wanted to follow up.
00:21:07I thought Australia was terribly overbet in that race.
00:21:10I think the Euros, like Bill was saying, the reputation of the Euros being so good this
00:21:15year made people overbet them a little bit.
00:21:17I think it was overbet as well.
00:21:18I want to agree with John.
00:21:19I'm a golden pal.
00:21:21He didn't get a great speed figure.
00:21:23He's been more brilliant before.
00:21:25But I really liked him the way he fought back in that race after being passed by Fire Crow
00:21:30and just dusted him.
00:21:32It's not easy to get collared at the eighth pole and then win by open line.
00:21:37That's not really an easy thing to do.
00:21:39And so I like the guts that he showed in that race as well.
00:21:43And you've got to think he's going to be among the favorites for the turf sprint coming up.
00:21:47And Joe, that's why it was so surprising to me that the Euros didn't run as well, because
00:21:51that Keeneland turf cut for this week, especially, was a really thick cut.
00:21:56And it was more European-esque and certainly not what our speed-favoring sprinters like
00:22:02to have.
00:22:03That's why Golden Pal was so impressive to me, was that just as you mentioned, he got
00:22:06passed and you said, that's it, he's done.
00:22:08And yet he came back on a tiring turf course and finished up strong.
00:22:12So excellent point on your part.
00:22:16After wrapping up an exciting Fall Stars weekend, there's more stakes action to look forward
00:22:20to this weekend at Keeneland with the Grade 3 Buffalo Trace Franklin County stakes on
00:22:24Friday.
00:22:25I wanted to mention that, actually.
00:22:26We might get to it in the weekend preview later.
00:22:28Campanelle was another very exciting Wesley Ward horse that went over to Europe and is
00:22:32now coming back to run and maybe potentially springboard from that in the Breeders' Cup.
00:22:36So you've got that to look forward to.
00:22:38And then the QE2 on Saturday, which is always a really nice race late in the season, one
00:22:42of the last opportunities for three-year-old fillies to run an exclusive three-year-old
00:22:47filly company on the turf.
00:22:48So that's always one to look forward to.
00:22:50And also the Keeneland November breeding stock sale catalog is available.
00:22:53Book one is going to begin Wednesday, November 10th.
00:22:56The sale will continue through November 19th.
00:22:59I'm not sure if John's looked at the catalog at all so far.
00:23:02Joe, the Keeneland November sale has been a destination spot for us for years, not only
00:23:07on the buying side, but also on the selling side.
00:23:09And actually this year, we're selling seven horses with TaylorMade, as well as we have
00:23:14another seven or eight horses in the Horses of Racing Age sale.
00:23:17And the reason why we put some horses in the Horses of Racing Age sale isn't because they're
00:23:21at the end of their careers, but rather we're trying to monetize them and ultimately have
00:23:26people continue on with some of those horses, including Proven Strategy, who won a grade
00:23:32two for us and is now a little bit older, but still ran second in a grade two this summer
00:23:38at Monmouth Park.
00:23:39So we love this sale.
00:23:41It's been a destination site for us.
00:23:43Now that I'm feeling healthy enough, I'm sure that I'm going to be down there looking at
00:23:47some broodmares, looking at some weanlings.
00:23:49I'm really anxious to see some first year sires with their full crop and the weanlings
00:23:54and see how they look.
00:23:55And to me, this is the sale you have to be at if you're going to be buying racehorses
00:24:01at the Horses of Racing Age day, which is a dedicated day now.
00:24:04And also, it's really imperative for your breeding operation to be down there for the
00:24:08November sale, because that's where all the deals are made there.
00:24:12I can tell you that 90 percent of our mating contracts get done that those first couple
00:24:16of days of the Keeneland November sale, because everybody is there and everyone is anxious
00:24:20to get deals done.
00:24:21Yeah.
00:24:22And it's right off the heel of the breeder's cuffs.
00:24:24There's a lot of excitement still buzzing from that.
00:24:26And also, like I mentioned before, Latruska's dam was bought with her in utero for just
00:24:31$100,000 at Keeneland November.
00:24:33So not only can you buy potential superstar mares, but maybe superstars within the mares
00:24:38too.
00:24:39So the possibilities are endless.
00:24:41We'll be right back after this message from Keeneland.
00:25:02You couldn't compose a better pedigree.
00:25:17A half-brother to Beholder.
00:25:21A half-brother to Intermischief.
00:25:23Intermischief wins the Kef Core Futurity!
00:25:26The most versatile performer from this brilliant family.
00:25:30Mendelssohn's going to do it!
00:25:31Mendelssohn has won it by a length!
00:25:33What a win by Mendelssohn.
00:25:35Mendelssohn by a conservative 17 lengths.
00:25:38Scat Daddy's best bred son at start.
00:25:41Mendelssohn.
00:25:44So we could not be more excited to announce and welcome a new sponsor to the show.
00:25:49Coolmore.
00:25:50Coolmore decided to sponsor this humble little show.
00:25:53I don't know what we're doing so right.
00:25:55But we want to thank Coolmore for coming aboard.
00:25:57Listen, they kind of don't need any introduction.
00:26:00Like that's the kind of operation that does not need an introduction.
00:26:03You all see that.
00:26:04You all see their horses across the globe winning great ones and group ones all the time.
00:26:09See their stallion footprint across the globe as well.
00:26:12So we are super, super thankful for Coolmore to come on board.
00:26:15And we really, really appreciate everybody there for supporting the show.
00:26:18And yeah, I could not be more excited.
00:26:20No, John's got a little bit of personal tidbits about his relationship with Coolmore.
00:26:24But I just wanted to mention some of the stuff that they've got going on.
00:26:26It's a really exciting time at Ashford Stud with first crop yearling sires like Justify.
00:26:31Again, needs no introduction.
00:26:33And Mendelssohn as well.
00:26:34Just recently, Mendelssohn sired the sale topper at the Fasig-Tipton Fall Mid-Atlantic Yearling Sale.
00:26:39$235,000 cult out of Grace's Gun, which is a great Dave Matthews band song.
00:26:44Already this year, his yearlings have sold up to $900,000.
00:26:48Of course, triple crown winner Justify has had success around the globe.
00:26:52He was the talk of the town at Keeneland September, as he should be.
00:26:55As he leads his crop of first crop yearling sires with an average yearling price of nearly $400,000.
00:27:01So obviously, everybody's reacting to him as well as you would think, if not better.
00:27:05Also, first crop two-year-old sire Cupid had an exciting weekend.
00:27:08He got a stakes double.
00:27:09So two stakes winners over the weekend.
00:27:11The Sky is Falling was the first winner for the Sunnitapit.
00:27:14First stakes winner for the Sunnitapit in the West Virginia triple crown nutrition breeders class stakes.
00:27:20I got all that out in one shot.
00:27:22And then less than 24 hours later, God of Love took the cup and saucer stakes at Woodbine for Mark Cassie.
00:27:27John mentioned Mark Cassie's success over the weekend.
00:27:30Eclipse Thoroughbred Partners and Gary Barber were also partners on that horse.
00:27:34And also future Coolmore sire Golden Pal, who we mentioned in the weekend recap.
00:27:38He won last year's Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf Sprint, obviously, and added a fourth stakes win to his resume this weekend.
00:27:44Taking the grade two Woodford stakes to Keeneland, as I mentioned, really showed a lot of guts.
00:27:48He's already showed his brilliance, but showed a lot of guts getting past in that race and coming back to re-break and win.
00:27:54And we're all looking forward to seeing him in the Breeders' Cup.
00:27:56But John, what was your experience at Goffs with the Coolmore boys and, you know, buying some Mendelssohns, I think?
00:28:03Yeah, you know, it was really amazing.
00:28:05I unfortunately was only at the Goffs sale for literally like 40 hours and then flew home because I wasn't feeling well.
00:28:13But I have to tell you that during that window of time, you know, so many people came up to me and talked about the show and talked about just, you know, how much they enjoy hearing from it.
00:28:22And they said we have funny accents, but I don't really hear that.
00:28:25But for the most part, you know, it was really, really nice.
00:28:28I had a very nice conversation with with MV Magner, who was just a gentleman, just absolutely a gentleman.
00:28:34And the very first thing he said to me is just how much he enjoys listening to the show and the fact that, you know, we breathe life into some of these stories that are behind the scenes.
00:28:44And for somebody of his stature and magnitude in the industry to take the time to say how much he appreciates the show really, really meant a lot to me.
00:28:53Now, from a from another personal standpoint, you know, we went there trying to find some some well-bred fillies and we were fortunate enough to buy six fillies at that sale.
00:29:02And five of them, five of them are daughters of Coomer Stallion, Churchill, no, nay, never Mendelsohn, US Navy flag and Caravaggio.
00:29:13And Joe and Bill, ironically enough, I had to fly across the ocean to Ireland to be able to buy a Mendelsohn because we were getting so outbid for all the Mendes that were here.
00:29:24It was it was really astonishing. And then at the very end of the sale, I was really pleased because Niall Brennan, who's a close personal friend of ours and we've worked with for years and years.
00:29:35We were on the on the plane on the way home and he had gotten a text saying that he was able to successfully in purchasing a justified Philly.
00:29:44And it was one that was on our list as well. So I actually am personally investing in a justified Philly to pinhook with Niall Brennan.
00:29:51It's a hip 415 justified out of Costa del Sol, who was just a really outstanding Philly.
00:29:56So, again, we had to fly all the way to Ireland to be able to get a justified Philly because they were just such demand here in the state.
00:30:03So kudos to Coolmore and Ashford for not only having the right kind of stallions, but promoting their yearlings and their foals.
00:30:12And again, like you said, they don't need us to, you know, as a springboard to put their name out there.
00:30:19But we really appreciate the fact that they're sponsoring the show.
00:30:22And I couldn't be prouder personally to be able to talk about their stallions and their program because we've been breeding to them, to their studs and and utilizing their stallions for years and years and years.
00:30:33And this is just a really exciting day for me as well.
00:30:37Yeah. And just a really, really second to none breeding and racing operation on a global scale.
00:30:43You mentioned some of the Cyrus Mendelsohn justified Caravaggio, who we haven't really spoken that much about because he doesn't have that many runners in the US yet.
00:30:50But he's off to a great start as well.
00:30:52He's got double digit winners.
00:30:53He's yeah, he was a brilliant, beautiful horse to watch.
00:30:56And it looks like he's going to be a terrific stallion as well.
00:30:59Son of Scat Daddy.
00:31:00You know, there aren't too many of those.
00:31:02So he's he's he's very exciting.
00:31:04And yeah, I got a second with John said here in that MV Wagner watches the show.
00:31:08I mean, that's that was that was very flattering.
00:31:10And we appreciate his support and everybody at Coolmore support.
00:31:13So welcome aboard to the TDN Riders Room Express.
00:31:16We appreciate it to everybody at Coolmore.
00:31:18And so, John, we had we had to say goodbye to John.
00:31:21He's already he's still recovering.
00:31:22He really just he wanted to come back for a segment or two and just kind of get his feet wet again.
00:31:27So we're happy that he's feeling better.
00:31:28We hope that he's back to 100 percent next week because, you know, the show isn't the same without him.
00:31:33But it's just going to be me and Bill taking you the rest of the way.
00:31:36This is a story that actually was just published in the TDN about an hour and a half ago.
00:31:40So Bill hasn't really had a chance to read it.
00:31:41I'm kind of asking him to do a real time reaction.
00:31:44But it's by Dan Ross, who I think, for my money, covers California racing the best out of anybody in the industry.
00:31:50And I'm not just saying that because he works for TDN.
00:31:53He does a lot of these kind of broad scope, you know, very immersive discussions and questions and investigative reports on California racing.
00:32:04And one of them is a potential.
00:32:08Well, it's not potential.
00:32:09It is an October 19th CHRB committee agenda item, which is, quote, discussion regarding the advisability of penalizing trainers for injuries and fatalities for horses in their care.
00:32:22Emphasis on the word discussion. It's very early in a complicated process.
00:32:27So this is an interesting thing.
00:32:29And you should go read the story because there's a lot of you know, there's a lot of people who could be held responsible for when horses get injured on the racetrack.
00:32:37I first off, before I want to get in before I get into any of that, I just got to say that I think California has done a very, very good job in the last two years of being proactive from when they had that that rash of breakdowns.
00:32:49That obviously was very disastrous for the industry and got in the news so much and really made the industry look bad.
00:32:55You know, you can say what you want about them, maybe kind of looking the other way on the Baffert stuff over the years.
00:32:59But they have I think they've really stepped up to the plate and have instituted a lot of reforms that have made tangible differences.
00:33:06There was a 50 percent decline in fatalities last year in California, which is a huge number and not easy to accomplish.
00:33:13Delmar has a great safety record.
00:33:15It has an improving safety record.
00:33:17But this is an interesting thing, because this is not this is not like a reform that everybody will necessarily get behind.
00:33:23The trainers obviously have a reason to be against this, because if a horse breaks down, you know, either when it's racing or when it's training, you can't necessarily point the finger and say that the trainer was negligent or incompetent or, you know, wasn't looking out for the best interest of the horse.
00:33:38Now, if you have a lot of them, if you have a string of them over time and you can establish a pattern, then I think you can take it in a different direction and start to penalize trainers for that kind of stuff.
00:33:48It's just when it's when it's these one officer, it's like a couple in a short period of time.
00:33:53I think that makes it tough. So there's going to be a lot of pushback from the trainers at this meeting, you know, when it when it comes to the CRB discussing this.
00:34:01And I give the CRB credit for, you know, requesting input from the trainers and soliciting soliciting their expertise, because it's something that they really should have a lot of input in.
00:34:11But they also, I think, should not have a total they shouldn't be totally closed off to this either, because at the end of the day, if your horses are not breaking down as frequently as others, and they are those trainers are then kind of sullying the reputation of the entire training colony at your track or in your state.
00:34:29I mean, I think that you have an incentive and a reason to kind of want that behavior and to stop as much as it can possibly be stopped.
00:34:39It's a it's a very complicated thing. You know, like I said, you know, you know, vets have input when it comes to putting horses on the track that maybe shouldn't be there.
00:34:47You know, there's he talks and Dan Ross talks in a story about exercise riders who maybe are ignoring issues that they shouldn't ignore when it comes to horses on a track that may be in distress.
00:34:56But it's a very interesting thing. And I think it speaks well to the CRB in California who have been very reform oriented in the last couple of years.
00:35:04And I think that this is the latest step to that bill. It's a complicated thoughts, thoughts, complicated process. But what do you feel?
00:35:11Yeah. And as you mentioned, I haven't even had a chance to read the story yet. But on the surface and from what you said, I think this makes perfect sense.
00:35:19Now, the problem with this is going to be, though, how do you discern between bad luck negligence?
00:35:26And, you know, any trainer, all trainers are going to have horses break down and some may break down horses when they did absolutely nothing wrong.
00:35:33They were just absolutely unlucky. So I'm sure that, you know, the bar has to be set in the right place there.
00:35:39And I'm sure the CRB will do that. So if you have a repeat pattern and if your breakdown rate over time is four times higher than the average.
00:35:49Yeah, I mean, somebody should do something about that, because I think when you, you know, when the statistics jump off the page like that, it's not bad luck.
00:35:57It is negligence. And, you know, especially this is what Santa Nina and the Stornick Group already did with Jerry Hollendorf.
00:36:06You know, they looked at his record and they were under a lot of pressure at the time with everything that's going on and said, you know, we're not comfortable with you racing here because your breakdown rate is so high.
00:36:16And, you know, I don't want to name names because I don't have the list and actual numbers in front of me.
00:36:22But there are some what I've seen in the past and what I recall, there are some pretty high profile California trainers who have really not good numbers in this category.
00:36:31So, you know, what will happen from here? Well, at the very least, maybe this is a wake up call.
00:36:36And guys might have been taking chances or pushing the envelope will not do it now because it could mean not just the catastrophe and the tragedy of a horse breaking down, but it could do something to, you know, negatively impact their career.
00:36:51So, yeah, I think it's a great idea and it'll be really interesting how this works going forward.
00:36:57Yeah, well, I think that this has come from, I think the feeling that, you know, when horses start breaking down, kind of everybody gets held responsible in general in the industry.
00:37:08And we kind of all have egg on our faces and have to explain ourselves and defend ourselves.
00:37:13But the trainers never really face any repercussions.
00:37:17Now, you mentioned Jerry Hollendorf. I would say that he is the exception to the rule.
00:37:21And you mentioned that there are a lot of, you know, high profile trainers in California, including Bob Baffert, John Sadler, a couple of guys who do who do have rates that are much higher than the average California trainer.
00:37:32And it has not impacted their business in any way.
00:37:36And I think that that's kind of where they're coming from here, that, you know, the buck has stopped with everybody else, except for the people who are in charge, mainly of the horse's care, you know, the absolute insurer thing.
00:37:45So I think that that comes from a good place.
00:37:48And I think also, you know, the reason that people should be receptive to this is that it's not it's not trying to scapegoat the trainers.
00:37:55It's not trying to dump everything in their lap. It's part of a whole reform process that California has really undertaken in the last couple of years when it comes to track safety.
00:38:07You know, when it comes to veterinary care, I think that, you know, as long as this is just one plank of the of the the effort and the thrust to make racing safer in California, I think it has to be considered and it has to be, you know, taken with good faith by the training colony.
00:38:22Now, obviously, they need to have input. They need to have a debate about this at the CHRB meeting.
00:38:28And I'm really interested to see what happens there and kind of what their arguments are and what the counter arguments may be.
00:38:33But again, I think that the big the big takeaway from this is that this is not trying to scapegoat trainers.
00:38:38It's just trying to hold them responsible in addition to everybody else in the industry and in California when there is a rash of breakdowns.
00:38:47And I think that that's a good thing, because up until now, other than Jerry Hollendorfer, there really hasn't been any particular spotlight on trainers who have a lot of horses break down.
00:38:57And I think that they need a little bit of that accountability.
00:39:00TDN Riders Room is brought to you by Legacy Bloodstock.
00:39:03If you think that 50 years combined experience in the horse business can benefit your program, give Tommy or Wendy a call.
00:39:09They personally advise on each horse as if they were their own.
00:39:12Great weekend for Legacy with graduates from their Facing Tifton, Kentucky, October yearling sale consignment.
00:39:17Graduate Shad Nation was an impressive debut winner on Saturday at Belmont Park for Christoph Clement.
00:39:24Son of Cairo Prince was purchased by Liz Crow.
00:39:26Very, very sharp Bloodstock agent at last year's Facing Tipton, Kentucky, October yearling sale.
00:39:31As I said, another Legacy Facing Tipton October grad, Holy Justice, got her second straight stakes win last week in the Miss Indiana Stakes.
00:39:38You can view Legacy's consignment for this year's Facing October yearling sale at LegacyBloodstockLLC.com.
00:39:45We'll be right back after this message from Legacy Bloodstock.
00:39:49Being a small family business, I guess we're part of a dying breed.
00:39:52We're really grateful for the people that entrust us.
00:39:55We know it's a huge responsibility.
00:39:57We're always with your horse, every step of the way.
00:40:01When it comes to being at the sales ground, showing your horses, we are with your horse.
00:40:05Just driving up and down the road every day, there's not a time that I don't look out and feel a responsibility to the sport, the animal, the people that come to invest in the game.
00:40:13I want to see as many people enjoy this sport as they possibly can because we do have the most beautiful sport in the world.
00:40:18Owning potential future superstars like Flightline is attainable with a racing partnership with West Point Thoroughbreds.
00:40:25Partnerships enable you to spread your ownership across several horses for less than it costs to own one horse alone.
00:40:31This increases your racetrack action and your chances for a big horse.
00:40:34Learn more about why West Point Thoroughbreds is the gold standard in racing partnerships at WestPointTB.com.
00:40:40West Point had an outstanding weekend across the country.
00:40:44They had a record five wins on Saturday with SWAT Analysis at Woodbine, Phantom Smoke and Voodoo Zip at Belmont, Giant Game at Keeneland, and England's Rose in the Swing Time Stakes at Santa Anita.
00:40:55They also had Cavalry Charge take an allowance race at Keeneland on Friday.
00:40:58It's obviously a very exciting time to be involved with West Point.
00:41:01That's not even getting to all the splashes that they made at the Keeneland September sale.
00:41:06To have six wins in one weekend is just an incredible accomplishment.
00:41:10Keep on rolling. Congratulations.
00:41:12To all the partners who were involved with those horses.
00:41:14It was also just announced that Galilean, who we mentioned last week, multiple stakes winner by Uncle Mo, will be retiring to Hidden Lake Farm in New York for the 2022 breeding season.
00:41:24I believe he has a $7,000 stands and nurses fee.
00:41:27So, obviously, he had a very nice career.
00:41:29And, you know, really, I always like to see those horses by those top sires added to the New York breeding landscape.
00:41:36I think that that really helps the program overall.
00:41:38So, great, great career for Galilean.
00:41:40Congratulations to the partners for getting him to stand in New York.
00:41:43We look forward to seeing his foals in the future.
00:41:45This story broke last Friday.
00:41:47Gulfstream Park stewards suspended Jockey Carlos Lugo for 30 calendar days.
00:41:53It wasn't for dangerous riding or anything.
00:41:55It was kind of the more intriguing, a little bit more severe reasons for getting suspended.
00:42:02They suspended him for failure to persevere with a horse in the fourth race on October 3rd at Gulfstream.
00:42:10It was a horse that ended up running fourth.
00:42:13I guess they said he didn't really try to get the horse in a trifecta.
00:42:17But the corresponding, you know, evidence that I think led them to this suspension is that there was a lot of suspicious wagering in the race.
00:42:25And the exact pools and trifecta pools, which were much bigger than the exact trifecta pools for any other race on that day's card.
00:42:34And also the same trainer trained the winner who was bet from like 15 to 1 down to 5 to 2 and 1 off.
00:42:41Same trainer for that horse and the horse that was not persevered with.
00:42:46So this is the kind of thing that, you know, you can't I can't get up here and say that they fixed the race.
00:42:52But it is one of those things that happens every now and then in racing where there's an alleged betting coup.
00:42:57And, you know, I think Gulfstream, again, is doing a really good job being proactive about this kind of stuff, really rooting it out.
00:43:03So I so I appreciate them, you know, stepping, stepping up and really, you know, kind of having a no nonsense policy for a lot of things that people have just kind of taken for granted that happened on the racetrack over the years.
00:43:15But I know Bill has a lot of thoughts on this.
00:43:16Yeah, I mean, Joe, you're right.
00:43:18And we haven't seen this in a long time.
00:43:20We don't see this much more.
00:43:21This was an old fashioned betting coup.
00:43:23And the horse that won the trainer is I'm going to butcher this name.
00:43:26Juan Reviego.
00:43:28And the horse that won was their main twelve five in his prior start.
00:43:32He had been six by 16 in the start before that seven by 15, by the way, with Lugo aboard in those previous starts.
00:43:40Somehow they knew.
00:43:41I don't know what happened in those starts.
00:43:43But, you know, they knew this horse was going to run his eyeballs out and likely win this race.
00:43:49And, you know, somebody probably involved with the connections, the owner of the trainer, et cetera, apparently bet a tremendous amount of money on that.
00:43:57So, you know, that's bad enough as it is that, you know, there's some sort of shenanigans being played out of that.
00:44:03We don't really know. But you watch the replay and then the stable mate.
00:44:07They obviously if, in fact, there was a betting coup, they obviously don't want the stable mate to upset the other horse and ruin all their bets because they did bet.
00:44:15They bet with place and show according if the pool, if the amount of money that was in the pools that escalated, the pools was because of the quote unquote betting coup.
00:44:24They bet when they bet exact as they bet trifectas.
00:44:27And lo and behold, therefore, the other horse and four.
00:44:30So, you know, they want to blow up, you know, winning all this money on this horse.
00:44:35Now, I have mixed feelings about this.
00:44:38Yes, Gulfstream deserves credit because, you know what?
00:44:41A lot of racetracks would have done nothing, absolutely nothing about this.
00:44:45Just look the other way. Who cares?
00:44:47I'm glad they suspended this guy for 30 days.
00:44:50But at the same time, I don't think that's enough.
00:44:52I mean, if, in fact, they feel this is what happened, that a guy stiffed a horse to set up a betting coup.
00:44:59To me, that's really serious and kind of, you know, it's almost in the service Navarro type thing where, you know, you're cheating to win money and to win races and you're defrauding the public.
00:45:13Whoever bet on this horse and finished fourth, if in fact the horse was held by the jockey, was defrauded out of money in here.
00:45:21Maybe, you know, I know one of the stories said they're still looking into it.
00:45:24I'd like to see the jockey get at least a year in here.
00:45:27I don't think 30 days is nearly enough.
00:45:29Well, how about the trainer to exactly?
00:45:32Yeah, yeah.
00:45:33I mean, it shouldn't just stop at the jockey in 30 days.
00:45:36I agree with you.
00:45:37But yeah, this is the kind of thing that, you know, in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares about a twelve five made in claim or Gulfstream on a Thursday or Saturday or whatever it was.
00:45:47But this is the kind of thing that gives the betting public license to be suspicious about any kind of, you know, anomalies or any kind of, you know, I guess extraordinary betting patterns.
00:45:58And I think there is a lot of that.
00:46:01There's a lot of accusations thrown around about people who are, you know, stiff and horses, jockey, stiff and horses, even at the top levels, even at the Naira tracks.
00:46:09There's a lot of people who think that, you know, for example, that I read and Jose are in cahoots and they fix races.
00:46:15Which isn't true, by the way.
00:46:17No, no, no. Yeah.
00:46:18No, I definitely don't believe that to be the case.
00:46:20It's kind of a ridiculous allegation.
00:46:24But nevertheless, what I'm saying is that these kind of things, even if they're in smaller races, smaller tracks, give people reason to be suspicious, even in cases where there isn't anything suspicious going on.
00:46:35And it happens. Listen, it happens.
00:46:37They knew they knew is a is a is a term in racing that I've used plenty when a horse, you know, that I think should be bet down to a certain number is way above that and doesn't run a step or a horse that you would think would be way longer on paper.
00:46:53Is that crazy down and then runs off to a big win?
00:46:56You kind of just feel like everybody else knew what was going to happen in the race other than you.
00:47:01And most of the time, most of the time, that's probably not the case.
00:47:04Most of the time, it's probably just bad handicapping or bad luck or whatever.
00:47:07But there are you know, there are enough instances like that where I think it leads people to be suspicious when the betting patterns don't make any sense.
00:47:15So I agree with Bill that I think this thing, you know, good on Gulfstream for doing something about it.
00:47:19But I think overall, this thing should should be kind of the people should be persona non grata at the tracks that if they can prove that this is what happened, I you know, I don't I don't see any reason to leave it.
00:47:30That's just a spending a 5% jockey for 30 days, because who cares?
00:47:33You know, if they really did do this betting coup, they'll pay for his next 30 days amounts or whatever.
00:47:38And he'll just be back on the track.
00:47:40So, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting scenario.
00:47:42And, you know, I think this is also the kind of thing that happened a lot back in the day, you know, when there when there wasn't simulcasting and there wasn't there weren't eyes on every single race.
00:47:50I think that this happened a lot more now.
00:47:52I think it's pretty rare, but it's interesting to see that it still does happen.
00:47:56And I think it's obviously something that tracks should have no tolerance for.
00:47:59Just wanted a couple of touch on a couple other news stories before we get out of here.
00:48:03You know, there have been a lot of change of plea agreements that we've touched on with the service and Navarro with the FBI indictments.
00:48:11We have potentially the ninth change of plea to guilty going on right now with a guy who was a kind of disgraced heart harness trainer named Christopher Oaks.
00:48:22He's facing two felony charges in the alleged nationwide horse doping conspiracy case.
00:48:28Could be the ninth among twenty eight initially indicted defendants to flip his plea to guilty after having requested and been granted a plea change hearing that on Tuesday got set for October 20th.
00:48:38I'm reading from from T.D. Thornton's story in the in the TV and today about it.
00:48:42The only reason that he's kind of interesting is one of the horses that Oaks and Navarro allegedly conspired to dope was X-Y Jet.
00:48:50And X-Y Jet was kind of the, you know, the the the the mascot for a lot of a better term for how corrupt and how disgusting this scheme was with the X-Y Jet was was the well-known horse that really, you know, paid the price,
00:49:05paid the consequences for these guys allegedly doping up horses.
00:49:09And, you know, it's disgusting. You can go through and read the quotes and all the stuff that they were saying that they were going to give him.
00:49:15And how much of this should I buy and how much of this should I use?
00:49:19And it's just obviously no regard for the horse's wealth, health or safety whatsoever.
00:49:24So it's obviously a very disgusting thing.
00:49:27But just every one of these change of play agreements that comes in, I think the noose gets a little a little bit tighter on Jason service.
00:49:33And I just wait. I'm counting down the days to when that Jason service thing goes to trial, if it does, because it just seems like I said before, when these guys started flipping that they're going to try to make him into the ringleader.
00:49:45And then later on this year, I believe it's in December, is Horry Navarro's official sentencing.
00:49:52So that's going to be interesting to see how much time he gets and what we can read from that in terms of, you know, what kind of information he gave to the government in this case.
00:50:01So that's an update on that. And then also, you know, we talked about this last week when I was at the courthouse, when Bob Baffert's contempt claim got dismissed by the judge, basically allowed the hearing process that Naira set up to go forward.
00:50:18They had the pre-hearing conference yesterday and they selected a January 24th, 2022 start date for the official hearing process to determine whether Naira can exclude Bob Baffert from racing at its tracks.
00:50:33And the two parties mutually agreed on that date. So at least now we're getting a little bit of movement on this thing.
00:50:38The only thing is January 2022 is just the beginning of what's going to be a lengthy process, you know, where the hearing officer that has to make recommendations to a board, the board has to deliberate.
00:50:51You know, Bob Baffert is going to have a lot of time to give his side of the story before any of that happens.
00:50:56So I just wonder if this is kind of going to fall out of the news a little bit in terms of the Medina Spirit thing and the pitchforks being out for Bob Baffert, I think justifiably so in a lot of cases.
00:51:07So I think that this is going to drag on well into next year.
00:51:10And I just wonder the public appetite for a long suspension for Bob Baffert is necessarily going to be the same as it was when Naira first put out that release, which was all the way back on May 17th of this year, saying that they were suspending Bob Baffert because of the Medina Spirit overage.
00:51:27But I guess we'll see what happens. You know, we'll see what Naira eventually comes up with and whether or not Bob Baffert has any compelling counter arguments.
00:51:35But at least at least the wheels are moving now a little bit because God knows I am sick of the back and forth in court with this thing.
00:51:41It's just it's just so typical of racing and I guess legal process processes in general.
00:51:47But it's just it's been going on forever. And there's just it's been really nothing.
00:51:51No meat on the bone until last week when the judge dismissed that contempt claim.
00:51:56So January 24th is the day when the hearing process officially starts and we'll promise no more updates until that happens.
00:52:03Until that starts, we'll steer clear of the Bob Baffert versus Naira melodrama.
00:52:07But good luck with that.
00:52:09Well, yeah, they mutually agreed on this date.
00:52:12So I don't know. I don't know. We'll see.
00:52:14Maybe that's until a new motion to file an old motion to appeal the motion that, you know, call me an optimist, Bill.
00:52:21But I think the process play out this time. We'll see.
00:52:24But yeah, that's the date to look forward to. And then we'll keep an eye on that.
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00:53:16So we have a bunch of new names, we have a bunch of new submissions for our lanes and slash honor code name, the name, the cult contest.
00:53:24So thank you, everyone who keeps sending the names.
00:53:27And we're very excited to have that kind of feedback and to have that kind of participation.
00:53:31Ton of great names. So it's honestly really, really hard to pick.
00:53:34I don't want to admit how much time I spent, you know, pouring over the names to figure out which one I was going to fix this week.
00:53:42But if we can put up the finalists from last week, we're going to add three more this week.
00:53:48Again, the deal is I pick one.
00:53:50Bill picks one. John picks one each week for three weeks.
00:53:53Then Patty, our producer, gets the 10th name.
00:53:56We're going to go in a room and go in the conclave and with those 10 names and figure out who's going to win in the end.
00:54:04So this week, my pick was guest of the week from Skip Anderson.
00:54:10Skip, again, I did not know this was Skip's name.
00:54:13It's two weeks in a row that I've chosen Skip's name and shout out to my boy Skip.
00:54:18I guess we're just we're like that, you know, naturally.
00:54:21And as our owner, Anthony said, Skip, please save some honor code hats for everybody else.
00:54:27But we do have two other different people for Bill and John's picks, two names that I also really like as well.
00:54:33And I took a look at Moral Imperatives was Bill's pick from Leah Whitesell.
00:54:38So shout out to Leah.
00:54:39And I think that that kind of really jives with the vibe of the show as well.
00:54:44It's all about the moral imperatives to take care of the sport.
00:54:47So that's Bill's pick. And then John's pick this week was cheat code from Alicia McQuilkin-Russell.
00:54:53So shout out to Alicia for sending that in as well.
00:54:57So guest of the week, Moral Imperative and Cheat Code are the three finalists for this week.
00:55:01We got one more week. We're each going to pick one more next week.
00:55:04And then Patty's going to throw hers in and we're going to pick the winner.
00:55:07And as long as it gets by the Jockey Club, you have to have to have that caveat.
00:55:11Your horse name will be seen on the track next year.
00:55:14Again, it's Honor Code Colt out of Nicky New.
00:55:17If you're watching for the first time, we're still taking submissions.
00:55:20You can send them to SueFinley at the TDN.com.
00:55:23So we're going to keep taking submissions up until the end of the contest.
00:55:26And then we might, who knows, you could send it in the day before the contest ends and we might end up picking your name.
00:55:30So thanks again to everybody for their participation.
00:55:33And thanks again to Lane's End and Honor Code for sponsoring it.
00:55:36And we'll be right back after this message from Lane's End and Honor Code.
00:56:06To continue his sire's legacy at Lane's End.
00:56:10The Green Group guest of the week is sponsored by the Green Group, an accounting, tax, consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred industry.
00:56:17With over 500 clients in the horse business, they have proven strategies to save you taxes.
00:56:21Learn more about how they can help you at www.greenco.com.
00:56:26So we are thrilled to bring on this week the face of NBC, Naira, one of the best racing sports broadcasters, I think, honestly.
00:56:34Lafitte Pinkai, thank you so much for coming on.
00:56:36Very kind. I appreciate it. Great to be here with you guys.
00:56:39Yeah, it's great to have you. Like I said, you do a great job on the Naira broadcast in particular.
00:56:44And we've talked about this a lot on the show.
00:56:46How important that broadcast was last year when we had the COVID shutdown, there weren't any other sports really going on.
00:56:52You have the spotlight all to yourselves.
00:56:54And I think it really helped to bring some new eyes to the sport.
00:56:57I wonder if you've experienced that at all.
00:56:59If you've had any fans come up to you or talk to you or just heard anything that suggests that you brought some some new people into the sport.
00:57:06I think the interaction with the fans at Saratoga was the is the first thing that comes to mind.
00:57:14I can't tell you how many people we saw, first of all, having the fans back at Saratoga.
00:57:20And while we were going through such a trying time, obviously, during the course of the pandemic and the anxiety that comes with that with no other sports really going on.
00:57:27I know baseball eventually started in the summer.
00:57:30But how many people told us that that was their escape on a day to day basis to just check out where you didn't have to watch the news and worry about everything for those few hours during the course of an afternoon?
00:57:42And what a difference that made to them and how special that was for us to hear that, that we were able to provide racing and the fact that racing was able to continue this massive ecosystem.
00:57:52If ever there was a sport designed to thrive during the course of a pandemic, it was horse racing where you don't have a lot of human to human contact.
00:57:58How many years we have operated, you know, without the stands necessarily being being packed.
00:58:04So, yeah, just that that feedback alone and for us, how fortunate we were to be distracted and to be able to do our job.
00:58:13And I can't tell you how many people I know in the media, in sports media specifically, that weren't able to work or that were laid off or lost jobs, adding more anxiety to an already anxious situation.
00:58:24Hey, Lafitte, thanks for joining us.
00:58:27And, of course, now we're getting down to the nitty gritty for the Breeders Club.
00:58:30Earlier in this podcast, we had a group discussion of whether or not La Pruska should run the Classic or not.
00:58:36I was at the minority. I said they should go for it.
00:58:40Go for it. You only live once, etc.
00:58:43Go in the Breeders' Cup Classic. Joe and John Green, who was on at that time, shot me down and made some pretty good arguments as well.
00:58:50Where do you stand on this?
00:58:52We love three different types of scenarios in thoroughbred racing.
00:58:56When it comes to a racehorse in a style, the come and catch me if you can front runner, the Silky Sullivan type of closer, those horses get us up out of our seats.
00:59:05And we love the story of the girls taking on the boys.
00:59:08Some of our most vivid memories in the Breeders' Cup, certain moments that come to mind, Golda Koba beating the boys in the three Breeders' Cup miles and Yada winning a Breeders' Cup Classic.
00:59:18From a story perspective, absolutely, I would love to see it.
00:59:22But that's just the fan in me.
00:59:25But if I'm calling the shots and you look at how the race is shaping up, just from an X's and O's pace standpoint, with Nick's go and some of these other really fast males out there, I don't.
00:59:36Maybe if the race shape was more to her liking in terms of where she's most effective.
00:59:41But with that type of speed that you've seen on paper, having to look Nick's go eyeball to eyeball, I think strategically, I think it's probably the right call because maybe the race shape isn't in her favor.
00:59:53But again, as a racing fan, of course, I would love to see it, but that doesn't make it the right call.
00:59:57Yeah, I mean, that's that's the argument I was making.
00:59:59They want to win Horse of the Year and this classic with that much speed.
01:00:03I just think she's it's a recipe for her to run up the track and make people.
01:00:07Let's say she let's.
01:00:08So I apologize for it.
01:00:10Go ahead.
01:00:11Let's say she goes wire to wire in the disc staff and maybe an essential quality gets beaten the classic and we'll see about next go.
01:00:16I think the door is still open for a potential horse of the year if she wins in the disc staff and one of the bigger names doesn't happen to win the classic.
01:00:24Yeah, no, I mean, that was my point as well.
01:00:26The recipe is that she'll run up the track in the classic.
01:00:29I think particularly this year.
01:00:31You know, I wanted to ask a little bit about your upbringing.
01:00:33I think now you're the most famous Lafitte pink guy.
01:00:36I think for a while there it was neck and neck between you and your dad.
01:00:39But I think now you've overtaken him.
01:00:41But I wonder about your upbringing and whether or not you always wanted to be in racing.
01:00:45I hear a lot of people who were sons of jockeys say they wanted to be a jockey until they got too tall.
01:00:50I wonder if that was maybe the case with you, but also whether or not you always wanted to be in the sport.
01:00:54If you had some other avenues you were considering that eventually went into broadcasting.
01:00:57When did you know that you wanted to be in racing full time?
01:01:00We are recording this, right?
01:01:02Like I have to send that clip to my father.
01:01:04My father has to has to see that.
01:01:08You know, racetracks weren't quite as family friendly as they are now.
01:01:17When I was growing up, we didn't grow up my sister and I at the racetrack.
01:01:22It was more for it was it was adults.
01:01:24You know, it was gambling and drinking and doing whatever the hell else at the racetrack having a great time.
01:01:29The kids kind of stayed home where it's a little bit different now.
01:01:32So I didn't grow up really following it all that closely.
01:01:37I was a huge baseball, football, basketball fan.
01:01:40I always knew I wanted to be involved in sports in some capacity.
01:01:43Riding was like never an option.
01:01:45Like I was wearing my dad's suits to the track when I would go on rare occasion when I was like 12 or 13.
01:01:51Dad's dad's five one.
01:01:52I'm a little bit taller, a little bit heavier.
01:01:54Even if I wanted to ride, he wouldn't have allowed it.
01:01:57He's like, if you do it, you'd better be really good because it's a really difficult life.
01:02:02People think that because you win a million dollar raise, hey, the jockey made a million dollars.
01:02:06No, it's 60 percent of the purse and then 10 percent of that.
01:02:09And then a quarter goes to your agent.
01:02:10It's not quite what it's made out to be in that regard.
01:02:14The way he had to starve himself, no offseason.
01:02:18You know, it wasn't necessarily something even if I wanted to do, even if I was built to be a jockey that he would have allowed.
01:02:25It wasn't until my teenage years that I kind of took an interest.
01:02:27And that was just, you know, father and son figuring out a way to bond.
01:02:31And for us, it was me taking somewhat of an interest in his business.
01:02:35I found, you know, just cabinets full of VHS tapes of big races that he had won.
01:02:42And I watched those over and over and over.
01:02:44And I found his beta collection, had those transferred to VHS and watched those as well.
01:02:48So I kind of taught myself in that regard, the history of the sport.
01:02:52And when it came time to decide what I wanted to do for a living, as much as I love sports, I wasn't going to be an athlete.
01:02:57Television seemed like the right like the right avenue.
01:03:01And initially, I did want to do baseball, basketball, football.
01:03:04My first job was in News 12 in the Bronx.
01:03:06That had nothing to do with horse racing.
01:03:08It was all smaller, you know, high school sports and occasionally covering the Yankees.
01:03:12That kind of thing kind of fell into the horse racing thing, just looking for a job.
01:03:16When I got back from New York and it kind of went on from there.
01:03:20News 12. I'm in Brooklyn.
01:03:22So welcome to News 12.
01:03:24Yeah, they do a good job.
01:03:26They do a really good job.
01:03:27Yeah, yeah.
01:03:28Listen, it was they wanted young, inexperienced, cheap and willing to do anything.
01:03:33Like we drove ourselves.
01:03:35We carried the tripod.
01:03:37We shot, you know, all of our own stuff.
01:03:39We edited.
01:03:40It was like an absolute one man band.
01:03:42But without that experience for those couple of years in the late 90s in New York.
01:03:46Yeah, I'm not I'm not I'm not doing this.
01:03:50Lafitte, let's stay on the subject of your father, who's on the Mount Rushmore of all time.
01:03:54Yeah, about it.
01:03:55And we're talking Breeders' Cup.
01:03:57He won seven Breeders' Cup races in his career.
01:03:59A couple with Bayeko and the staff.
01:04:01He puts this with Skywalker in the classic.
01:04:04Do you have a favorite memory of him winning the Breeders' Cup?
01:04:07And if he were on, if we were to ask him what was his greatest memory of the Breeders' Cup?
01:04:12What do you think that would be?
01:04:13I would guess the classic with Skywalker in 86.
01:04:19The owner, Tom Tatham of Oak Cliff Stables.
01:04:22His son, Casey, is still one of my closest friends.
01:04:25I was not there.
01:04:26I, for some reason, was at my school's homecoming game, but I was in fifth grade.
01:04:30I think it was.
01:04:31I think my father would say that day because he won two races.
01:04:34He also won on Capote.
01:04:35He went wire to wire in the Juvenile for Lucas and then Skywalker.
01:04:38And because it was a little bit unexpected.
01:04:40You had Turcoman.
01:04:41You had Precisionist.
01:04:42It was supposed to be a two horse race.
01:04:44Her rat, that little 15 hand horse that you could stuff in your pocket, was always a thorn in the side of Precisionist.
01:04:49Turcoman fell so far back.
01:04:51And I thought, you know, objectively speaking, my father did administer a beautiful ride on Skywalker.
01:04:56Blowing that race open around the far turn.
01:04:59And that was his only win in a Breeders' Cup classic.
01:05:01I think that's the one he would probably say.
01:05:04For me, it would be his last.
01:05:07Only because that was the only one I was there for.
01:05:09With phone chatter in the 93 Juvenile fillies.
01:05:12And watching him and Eddie De La Jose duel from the quarter pole to the wire.
01:05:17Eddie D was on Sardula.
01:05:19My dad on phone chatter.
01:05:21And phone chatter was big, big, big, massive two year old filly.
01:05:24She looked like a three year old, four year old colt.
01:05:26And actually being there and it was such a close, exciting race to celebrate that with him.
01:05:32For me, no question, that's my favorite Breeders' Cup memory.
01:05:35Not to keep living in the past.
01:05:37But I just, you know, I want to hold on to that.
01:05:39You know, you grew up early, I think, in racing's heyday.
01:05:42And it's lost a lot of ground over time in terms of market share.
01:05:46I wonder if you have any thoughts about, you know, why that may be.
01:05:50Is it just a natural thing that some sports get less popular over time?
01:05:53Or is there things that racing has done wrong specifically that has kind of lost its ground?
01:05:58And are there things that you think racing can do now to regain a little bit of that?
01:06:02Like I said, last year, I think that you guys did a yeoman's work in that regard.
01:06:06But there's more work to be done.
01:06:07What are your feelings on that?
01:06:08I think we learned that the interest in general, for example,
01:06:13through the wagering that took place on Naira's platform,
01:06:18the observation being that most of those signups during that time of the pandemic
01:06:23when nothing else was happening, that most of those new members would cancel
01:06:27once sports came back and that would be the end of it.
01:06:29They estimated, I believe, 80% of those new cancellations would go away.
01:06:34As to 80% of the new signups would eventually cancel.
01:06:37And in fact, 80% of the signups were still firing.
01:06:40Well, after the fact, I think that that 10-year deal announced with Fox,
01:06:44I don't know that that happens without the pandemic,
01:06:47just from the observation of how interested people still were in racing,
01:06:51given the opportunity.
01:06:52Guys, I think it's just a matter of there being so much else.
01:06:55You know, fantasy sports is such a monster now,
01:06:58and you didn't have that to contend with.
01:07:00Every Sunday is like a damn holiday now with the interest in fantasy.
01:07:04I think there's just being more distraction,
01:07:08and I think there's being more options out there.
01:07:10And the idea that 90% of the wagering that comes in on horse racing
01:07:15is done off track, that most of us, for me, it's a little bit different,
01:07:20being that my father was that intimately involved in the sport,
01:07:24but for so many fans that were introduced to the sport by going with Grandpa,
01:07:28with going with Mom and Dad and experiencing it for themselves,
01:07:32and kind of it gets in your blood, and it is.
01:07:34It becomes one of your favorite sports,
01:07:38like a football, baseball, basketball, horse racing,
01:07:41because I've been doing it with my father and my mother.
01:07:43I've been going on this particular day every day since I was a little kid.
01:07:46I think that that might have one reason or at least one element to the formula
01:07:50in terms of why racing might not be as popular as it once was.
01:07:54There aren't as many firsthand experiences taking place
01:07:57of people growing up, going with their family to the track,
01:08:00because so much of it is done from home.
01:08:03Sort of staying on the same subject, I was doing a little homework for this, Lafitte,
01:08:08and I was reading something, I think you did an interview with America's Best Racing,
01:08:12and you said something that I know Joe and I would definitely agree on,
01:08:15that there's too much racing, but you also took it a step further,
01:08:18and you said, why should horse racing be like baseball, football, basketball,
01:08:23hockey, and actually have an off-season, and how that would really re-energize people
01:08:28and get their batteries charged?
01:08:30I don't know if that's practical or not, but it's an interesting idea.
01:08:32Tell us more.
01:08:34I think you can have too much of a good thing,
01:08:37and you have to give people the opportunity to miss you, to miss a sport.
01:08:44The first, second Sunday in September, like I talk about the Sundays being holidays
01:08:49with the popularity of football, that opening weekend, it's special.
01:08:54We've missed it.
01:08:55We haven't had a chance to see real football since February.
01:08:59Here in California, even when racing would end in April,
01:09:05maybe a week or two after the Santa Anita Derby,
01:09:07by the time it would return just for the Oak Tree Meet in the fall,
01:09:11it would feel special because you really would have missed it.
01:09:13And then when it would come back for opening day Santa Anita.
01:09:17Now that you have without Hollywood Park, it gets to feel it's a little monotonous.
01:09:22Something going year-round, you need change.
01:09:25It gets a little Groundhog Day-ish.
01:09:27You can change the name of the stakes races all you want,
01:09:29but essentially you're seeing the same thing over and over and over again.
01:09:34If you had a chance to give, if the horses had a little bit more chance,
01:09:38before there was all this winter racing, they would be turned out,
01:09:40and they'd go stand in the snow for a couple of months
01:09:42and give them a chance to just be horses and give them a chance to heal up.
01:09:46Jockeys as well, that burnout.
01:09:49I think everyone would benefit from a little bit of time off.
01:09:54If you had year-round baseball or any of these other sports going,
01:09:56you'd get a little bit tired of it.
01:09:58And I'll give you an example.
01:10:00I live in California.
01:10:01The beach is right there.
01:10:03I don't go to the beach that often.
01:10:04But if you told me that the beach was going to be gone in 30 days,
01:10:07I'd probably go a few times before it was gone
01:10:11because you always know it's there.
01:10:12You kind of take it for granted.
01:10:13I think most of us as racing fans, I do think we take it for granted
01:10:16that it's always there.
01:10:18There's too much of it,
01:10:19which is why the boutique meets seem to do so much better in terms of handle
01:10:23and popularity.
01:10:24Yeah. I mean, I think that's definitely true.
01:10:26There really is that dichotomy between how well Saratoga and Kentucky Downs
01:10:30and these tracks do,
01:10:31and then how some of the lower level tracks lose handle year over year.
01:10:35One other question I had for you, you know,
01:10:38I wonder if your perspective has changed a little bit from broadcasting,
01:10:42from being in front of the camera and you get to work with guys who are good
01:10:46handicappers. You get to work with people who are really good at, you know,
01:10:49you know, analyzing horse flesh in the paddock.
01:10:52Have you found that you have a more well-rounded view of the sport now that
01:10:56you've been able to be in front of the camera and be around those kinds of
01:10:59people?
01:11:00There's so much you learn through just the osmosis being there and the guys
01:11:05that you learn from, you know,
01:11:06I learned the handicapping aspect from Jeff Siegel,
01:11:10sitting next to him for hours a day for all the years we worked together at HRTV.
01:11:15You know, the, the number crunching with,
01:11:18with Randy Moss watching races unfold.
01:11:21And I got a chance to do this with my father as well,
01:11:23but doing so during a live broadcast with a Jerry Bailey in New York,
01:11:28Maggie and Acacia give you something that you can't get anywhere else.
01:11:32There's so much information out there,
01:11:34but from what they see in the paddock, you can't get there anywhere else.
01:11:37And when you start looking for stuff that they start looking for, sure.
01:11:40That adds to your own repertoire as well. Being able to judge horse flesh,
01:11:44which I'm far from an expert from,
01:11:46it's amazing how they can pick certain things up that it's not,
01:11:50that doesn't come as naturally.
01:11:52Sitting next to him in Andy Serling and,
01:11:55and the number crunching as well in the day-to-day handicapping, you know,
01:11:59Tom Amos. And even though he's a great trainer,
01:12:02he's also a tremendous handicapper.
01:12:03People forget Bobby Frankel was a handicapper before he was a great trainer.
01:12:07So these, you know,
01:12:08Richard Migliore his understanding of the history of New York racing and,
01:12:12and the guy that's, that's had so much experience in New York, Barry Stevens,
01:12:15a big race experience, being,
01:12:17having a chance to work with that many different personalities that come from
01:12:23different backgrounds and have different levels of expertise. Yeah.
01:12:26I think it makes your overall knowledge that much more well-rounded as opposed
01:12:29to spending every day, every show, every broadcast with the same analyst.
01:12:33Absolutely.
01:12:34I would imagine preparing as you have to do for the Breeders' Cup,
01:12:39which I'm sure you're going to be doing an awful lot of over these next few
01:12:42weeks must be a monumental task.
01:12:44Correct me if the numbers aren't, I think there's 14 races,
01:12:48well over a hundred horses.
01:12:49Tell us what your next three or four weeks are going to be like and what you
01:12:52have to do to be able to not just be your best on that broadcast,
01:12:56but to be on top of dozens and dozens,
01:12:59if not hundreds of pieces of information about these horses.
01:13:03I'm a preparation freak in that.
01:13:06This is my personality.
01:13:08I don't feel comfortable unless for me,
01:13:11the litmus test is if I bump into somebody at the airport who happens to be
01:13:15affiliated with a certain race horse coming up in a certain race,
01:13:18can I have a conversation with that person is if the horse was my own without
01:13:24looking at the past performances, without looking at, you know,
01:13:27the racing form or anything else,
01:13:28am I familiar enough with that particular race horse where I can have that
01:13:32educated conversation with somebody connected to the horse with the
01:13:35Breeders' Cup, it's impossible.
01:13:37Like I start, I get very uncomfortable when pre-entries come out.
01:13:41I'm like, who the hell is this?
01:13:43And it happens every single year.
01:13:46There's over 200 horses that are rented.
01:13:48And now that we do have the 14 different races,
01:13:51that's really the biggest challenge. And, and, you know,
01:13:53you kind of go into a basement. If I'm not watching baseball playoffs,
01:13:58you're,
01:13:59you're doing the deep dive researching and trying to become as familiar as you
01:14:02possibly can with the major contenders and are the articles that have been
01:14:07written. There's so much great content.
01:14:09It's provided shows like this one that you have to keep current with.
01:14:14And that's probably the biggest challenge,
01:14:16especially while you get closer to game day is that then you start going over
01:14:20the actual rundown for the show. It's like, okay, we're here.
01:14:23Time to get ready for the show,
01:14:24but there's still so much content being generated and it's impossible to stay
01:14:29current.
01:14:30There's always sort of that insecurity that a horse crosses the wire and
01:14:34you're not familiar with that story and what makes that win special.
01:14:37And you see something about this has happened.
01:14:39You see something about it after the fact on social media, like, Oh my God,
01:14:43I missed that story.
01:14:44Just something you happen to miss.
01:14:46Something's going to fall through the cracks because you're dealing with so
01:14:49many that, that is easily the biggest challenge of, of the breeders cup.
01:14:53So many races, so many horses, so many storylines.
01:14:55So let's just spin that forward and then we'll let you get out of here.
01:14:59You've been very generous with your time.
01:15:00What are some of the other storylines we talked about with true Scott,
01:15:03but what are some of the other storylines or other horses that you're
01:15:05particularly interested in seeing at the breeders cup?
01:15:08I'm a, just a sucker for Jackie's warrior.
01:15:13I think it's interesting that at this time last year,
01:15:15he was considered probably the likeliest winner going into any of the breeders
01:15:21cup races. I believe he was installed as the shortest price of any,
01:15:24the heaviest favorite going in, albeit it didn't work out in the juvenile.
01:15:29There's so much talent, class, grit and determination there.
01:15:32I'm just a huge, huge fan. I can't, I can't wait to see him.
01:15:36I'm a little disappointed that it looks like the Philly mare sprints coming up
01:15:39a little bit light in terms of competition for demean storylines that we follow
01:15:44with Europeans. There were six grass races at Delmar.
01:15:47There are six grass races in the breeders cup. I believe at Delmar,
01:15:51there were three winners that came over from Europe and one back in 2017.
01:15:56There used to be this notion going back to horses like dancing,
01:16:00brave and zilzal who disappointed his heavy favorites in the early days of the
01:16:04breeders cup. And it was,
01:16:05it's too warm in California for the Europeans to thrive.
01:16:08The ground's too hard. The turns are too tight.
01:16:11And once 2003 came around and the mountains were on fire and it was a hundred
01:16:16degrees and we're at Santa Anita and a rock hard, you know,
01:16:19surface and the Europeans swept the grass races,
01:16:21including the dead heat with Joe Hart and high Chaparral.
01:16:24You learn very quickly,
01:16:26maybe just lean towards talent and that's what's going to prevail in the
01:16:29breeders cup. Last time we were at Delmar,
01:16:31it was heavy favorite after heavy favorite disappointing.
01:16:33I think that's kind of a theme to follow. Was that just a, you know,
01:16:36funky outlier in that year's breeders cup? You know,
01:16:40did you leave, you dig a little bit deeper,
01:16:42reach a little bit more for some of the long shots. We'll see how it all,
01:16:46how it all comes together. We're still, we get pretty amazing.
01:16:49We get pre-entries in a couple of weeks. And of course,
01:16:53as always the classic and seeing with,
01:16:55with a horse like a Nick's goat who I'm also a big fan of his,
01:16:58his speed and the talent is there,
01:17:00but the idea of whether or not he can run that far and how much praise
01:17:04pressure he's going to be facing. Those are just some of the first,
01:17:07first storylines that come to mind.
01:17:09Lafitte man. We can't thank you so much.
01:17:11We can't thank you enough for the time. We really enjoy talking to you.
01:17:14We'd love to have you back on sometime.
01:17:16Best of luck to your Dodgers and best of luck at the breeders cup, man.
01:17:19Good to talk to you.
01:17:20Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks guys. Thanks Bill. Anytime guys.
01:17:23Thank you very much.
01:17:24Well, thanks Lafitte.
01:17:25The green group guest of the week is sponsored by the green group and
01:17:28accounting tax consulting and advisory firm specializing in the thoroughbred
01:17:31industry. As this week's green group guest of the week,
01:17:33Lafitte Pinkeye will receive a free one hour tax consultation.
01:17:37Learn more at greenco.com.
01:17:39We'll be right back after this message from the green group.
01:17:42Why do the most successful owners, breeders,
01:17:44and horsemen select the green group as their tax advisor?
01:17:46We simply save them money and know how to make them more successful over the
01:17:50past 40 years.
01:17:51Founder Leonard green has owned and bred some of the best race horses in the
01:17:54history of the sport. His in-depth hands-on industry knowledge combined with
01:17:58cutting edge tax saving strategies has produced positive results for his
01:18:01clientele and has made the green group,
01:18:03the top rated accounting and tax firm in the business for a confidential and
01:18:06complimentary consultation. Contact us at 732-634-5100,
01:18:11or visit our website at www.greenco.com.
01:18:14The green group proven strategies to save you taxes.
01:18:17All right.
01:18:18So that's going to do it for this week's edition of the TDN writer's room
01:18:21presented by Keeneland.
01:18:22A reminder that the Keeneland fall meet is still going through October 30th.
01:18:25A ton of great action over the weekend,
01:18:27lots of great action still to come this week.
01:18:29And also the Keeneland November sale catalog is now online.
01:18:32You can view that at Keeneland.com. I want to thank Bill Finley, John Green.
01:18:36So great to have you back, man.
01:18:38Hopefully we can get them for the full show next week.
01:18:40Our green group guest of the week Lafitte Pinkai, our producer, Patty Wolf,
01:18:45our associate producer, Katie Petruniak, and our editors, Anthony LaRocca,
01:18:48Aaliyah LaRocca, Nathan Wilkinson.
01:18:50Thank you all so much for watching and keep sending in those names to
01:18:53suefinleyatthetdn.com. We'll see you next week.

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