CLNS Media's Taylor Kyles and SI's Mike Kadlick go LIVE to discuss the future of Jerod Mayo in a mailbag show as the Patriots prepare to take on the Bills in their final game of the season.
Patriots Content Brought to you by....
💰 Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS
Download the app today and use Code CLNS at PrizePicks.com/CLNS & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
🎫 Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Terms apply. What time is it? Gametime!
Patriots Content Brought to you by....
💰 Prize Picks - https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/CLNS
Download the app today and use Code CLNS at PrizePicks.com/CLNS & Get $50 instantly when you play $5!
🎫 Gametime - https://gametime.co
Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. Terms apply. What time is it? Gametime!
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00I am joined by Robert Griffin, the third James White field.
00:08Yes.
00:09Mina Kimes.
00:10All right.
00:11So first play, we're going to look at second into one of the Patriots first offensive plays.
00:17What's going on everyone?
00:18Mike Catholic, Taylor Kyle is here for CLM's media back with another episode of the Patriots
00:23daily podcast powered by prize picks, powered by game time.
00:27And for this episode, powered by all of your Patriots questions, as they head into the
00:32final week of the 2024 season, they head into this one three and 13 after last weekend's
00:3840 to seven loss to the LA Chargers.
00:42Not a good one, Taylor.
00:43I saw you make that face.
00:44As we know, it was not their best performance by any means, but we're on to the Buffalo
00:49bills here.
00:50So as we do every single Wednesday here, Oh, and first and foremost, as I look at the calendar,
00:54it is Wednesday.
00:55It is a new year.
00:56Happy new year.
00:57Happy new year, everybody.
00:58Happy 2025.
00:59Happy new year, Taylor.
01:00Happy new year to everybody watching and happy new year to everyone who submitted questions
01:03for today's Wednesday mailbag.
01:05And I think we're just going to get right on into a Taylor.
01:08Nothing really to to intro this show about because we did our film or as much of the
01:13film as we possibly could stomach on Monday.
01:16And that's kind of where we're at.
01:18So heading into this one, there's a lot of questions.
01:20There's a lot of chatter, chatter about Gerard Mayo, his job security, his chances of making
01:26it as the Patriots head coach next season.
01:28We spoke to him about that today and all of the sort of rumors around him, I guess.
01:34And he basically said that he's focused on the bills, which was the correct answer.
01:37And that's kind of where things should stand right now.
01:39But as we sit here, January 1st season ending on Sunday, Taylor, we're going to start with
01:44this question from Dylan Greene nine on Twitter.
01:47And he asks, what are the chances Mayo actually gets fired?
01:51And I want to use this as sort of our segue into the Mayo job security conversation as
01:56a whole.
01:57Now, does he get fired?
01:58Does he stay?
01:59Do they keep the coordinators?
02:00Do they fire the coordinators?
02:01Antonio Gibson today mentioned that Alex Van Pelt has essentially become their scapegoat
02:06this season.
02:07He doesn't find the criticism of them fair.
02:09Hunter Henry spoke up for ABP today.
02:11Drake May has all season.
02:12So I ask you, what do you think the chances are that Mayo does get fired?
02:17And sort of just to give your thoughts on the coaching staff situation as a whole and
02:21where you think they should go heading into next year.
02:23Yeah.
02:24First of all, happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
02:25Love the happy new year's messages in the chat.
02:28Feels like a nice little community.
02:30Love that.
02:31Um, yeah, I, we know we've been going back and forth on this because I think they should.
02:36I think if you have Vrabel who can, all the promises that Gerard Mayo has made, all the
02:41goals that he has, Mike Vrabel can offer you that, but actually have a proven track record
02:46and a coach of the year trophy on his mantle, which right now it looks like, I don't know
02:50how Gerard Mayo gets one of those, you know, what is trophy case, but I still don't think
02:55it's likely.
02:56I think the crafts will still be very hesitant to be the kind of ownership group that fire
03:00somebody after one season, especially knowing they put Gerard Mayo and Ellie Wolf in difficult
03:05positions with a team that was very low on talent and also did not have a good enough
03:08reputation where they had an easy avenue to replenish talent and a lot of places, especially
03:14at the premium positions.
03:16So I do think they give him another chance.
03:18I hope they don't, to be very honest, because again, I think Vrabel gives you that track
03:22record that you need, where, you know what, sometimes things don't work out.
03:26And I just don't think Mayo has shown you nearly enough to deserve retaining his job
03:30is unfair as it might be, it's still a business, you know, this is not a charity and I don't
03:35think Gerard Mayo has done a good enough job, especially because I think with his comments
03:39in the media, I think he has dragged the organization even further to not just being a team that's
03:43in the midst of a rebuild and is losing, which I think, you know, if you're going into
03:47free agency is really where you care about your reputation most, I think, especially
03:50in the short term.
03:52And it's one thing to go in saying, yeah, we don't have the pieces, but we need them.
03:55It's another thing to be like, oh, Gerard Mayo, you mean the coach that I hear about
03:59on ESPN and NFL network is constantly putting his foot in his mouth and you know, all that.
04:04Right.
04:05So yeah, I think they should move on, but either way, whether you keep Mayo or whether
04:09you don't, I think Alex Van Pelt is, or should be safe because of what you mentioned with
04:14the players throughout the season.
04:15We have consistently heard them speak up for AVP, not even always prompted.
04:20They will say, you know, Hunter Henry is consistent with, I like the scheme.
04:23I like his energy.
04:24I like what he brings to the room.
04:26It's clear that while he does bring that positive culture vibe that you were hoping for when
04:30the offense was such a disaster over the past couple of seasons, I think he also does bring
04:34a bit of that still disciplinarian where he's not going to MF you up and down and be like
04:38Bill O'Brien where he's just popping off, but he's not going to accept anything less
04:42than the best.
04:44I've seen glimpses of that where when they have repeat mistakes week in and week out,
04:47he'll say like, yeah, no, that was BS.
04:49That was not acceptable.
04:50And you can see that he's not okay with it.
04:52Covington, on the other hand, I do not think it's safe because with the praise that Hunter
04:57Henry gave AVP and me going on Twitter and saying, I haven't heard that for Covington.
05:01I decided, well, if I'm going to say that, let me at least give players an opportunity
05:06to defend against Covington, give us some perspective that we may not have.
05:10We got from Dietrich Weiss, he's got a great football IQ.
05:12I'm impressed with how he's grown going from defensive line, linebackers back to defensive
05:16line, learning how things work in the back end, saying he knows how to counter offensive
05:20formations.
05:21They have good conversations when Weiss wants to know why they're doing X, Y, Z, John Jones,
05:26who spoke out after last week's game and said that he didn't think that some coaches were,
05:31you know, for this isn't word for word, basically said some coaches weren't doing enough and
05:35really pulling their weight.
05:36I asked him, okay, well, DeMarcus Covington, you know, what has he done to keep you guys
05:40afloat or, you know, what have you, and he really kind of just deferred to the fact that
05:45it was Covington's first season and that this was the first defensive coordinator they've
05:48had who wasn't Bill Belichick.
05:50We know that, you know, Steve Belichick and Gerard Mayo did have co-defensive coordinator
05:55responsibilities where Mayo led a lot of the meetings and then Belichick was the one who
06:00really called the plays, but everything funneled through Bill Belichick, kind of gave him that
06:05pass, but he didn't really say a whole lot that Covington really brought.
06:08There wasn't anything about what happens on game days and it just feels like if there's
06:13anybody who gets scapegoated, it's gotta be Covington because obviously both sides of
06:18the ball have a talent issue, they have an experience, they've had to deal with injuries
06:22and rotations.
06:24All of that's understandable, at least with Van Pelt, you can see what he's trying to
06:28build.
06:29There are areas where he can absolutely improve, but you're like, you know what?
06:31I see the vision.
06:32I think if you had league average players across the board, I think this would look different.
06:37I think this would at least be a respectable offense.
06:40That's maybe not super consistent because of the talent, but they're not inconsistent
06:43because it feels like they're unprepared or just bad.
06:46The defense constantly feels like they're behind.
06:49It never feels like they really are keyed in on what's going on.
06:52It doesn't feel like they fly around the same way.
06:54There's been spurts where effort's not been great and I think that's where you can be
06:57critical at times, but it's not to the degree where it's like, oh, this is a total abject
07:01failure.
07:02It's really more that they just don't seem like they're ready from week in to week out
07:06and it isn't just because of the inexperience because you have veterans that are messing
07:10up pretty egregiously on a somewhat regular basis, even if it's not necessarily the same
07:14guy.
07:15So the way I see it, I think Mayo stays, I think AVP stays, Springer should be able to
07:20stay.
07:21And even if Rabel did get the job, I think AVP and Wolf be safe because he just spent
07:24a year in Cleveland.
07:25I'm sure he has a decent idea or could get one of AVP's deficiencies, what he does well,
07:30what value he brings, and you want to retain some of the things that were good.
07:34Obviously the offense itself wasn't good, but I think the culture they're building on
07:37that side is positive.
07:38And Wolf, you say, hey, guys who've worked with him in Cleveland, is this a guy that
07:42I can trust?
07:43Should I give him at least another year to fix this?
07:45If you're not confident, make the move.
07:47But we've said this, it's very rare to fire a GM after year one.
07:50So wrap this in a bow.
07:52I hope we see them move on from Mayo just because I want this to be a serious organization
07:56again.
07:57I don't think it's likely.
07:58And the only way that you fix that issue of not being great at the head coach level is
08:03to take the Eagles approach.
08:04You got to load up on talent.
08:05You got to surround that head coach with a lot of experienced guys with track records
08:09in the NFL who you truly believe in.
08:12Because if you run it back with anything close to the defense that we see this year, I just
08:17don't know how you take any step forward.
08:18Also, if you keep Mayo, I'm not even being a jerk or trying to be funny PR, like get
08:24him in a masterclass, whatever it is.
08:26I don't know, but seriously, get him to be able to be himself to a degree while also
08:32not putting the organization in bad spots where you look bad on a national level.
08:36Yeah, I shockingly, as I do, continue to go back and forth on whether they will ultimately
08:43fire Mayo or keep Mayo.
08:46Right now, I'd lean that they're still probably going to keep him.
08:48But if they do, there's going to be and has to be serious changes around the guy.
08:53And the main one being defensive coordinator now, I do also think that ABP deserves to
08:59stay.
09:01And I like the connection between him and Vrabel with Cleveland.
09:06That sort of starts to make sense.
09:07And he's he's worked with those types of offensive coaches before.
09:11Yeah, West Coast guys, LeFleur, Arthur Smith.
09:14And so it would be an easy transition for Vrabel.
09:17Ultimately, I think they should go after Mike Vrabel.
09:20He's the culture center.
09:21It's everything you just said.
09:23And I'm totally on board with it.
09:24I just there.
09:26There comes a point in time where, you know, ownership is going to have to look themselves
09:29in the mirror and say, is the only reason we're keeping Gerard Mayo because of the hunch
09:35we had not only a year ago, but the five years ago, the Israel trip, all of the stuff that
09:40they've propped this guy up to be is the only reason is because we don't want to look bad
09:44for for putting ourselves behind this guy.
09:46And if that's the only reason you have to just admit you were wrong and bite the bullet.
09:50Good organizations.
09:51And I want to shout out Greg Bedard for this idea, because I was listening to his podcast
09:55also on the Patriots press past the LNS network.
09:58So if you haven't checked that out as well, but he sort of mentioned how good organizations
10:02handle these types of situations and can bite the bullet and admit they were wrong.
10:09And the one he brought up was the San Francisco 49ers, where they had success with Jim Harbaugh.
10:15And then that started to sort of fizzle out and they fired Harbaugh.
10:18They bring in Jim Tomsula for a year.
10:20He was a one and done.
10:21They didn't like it.
10:22They tried Chip Kelly.
10:23He was a one and done.
10:24They didn't like it.
10:25So they pulled the plug, admitted they were wrong twice before finally landing on Kyle
10:29Shanahan.
10:30And now Kyle Shanahan has had the success that he's had in San Francisco.
10:33Now it has been perfect, but they went to Super Bowls under Harbaugh.
10:36They went to two Super Bowls under Shanahan.
10:38They've become or they've stayed as a steady franchise because ownership admits they were
10:44wrong with some of the hires.
10:46And so I think it's OK if they ultimately say, you know what, we tried this and we didn't
10:51like it.
10:52But in the long run, looking five years, 10 years ahead, they'll look back on this and
10:58realize it was a mistake to ultimately keep Gerard Mayo.
11:00So obviously we'll see what happens.
11:03But as of right now, in my opinion, it looks like I don't think they're going to fire him
11:07just yet.
11:08We do have a nice super chat here from Commander Ray.
11:11So shout out to Commander Ray.
11:13Nice New Year's present here on Patriots Daily.
11:15And he asks, we'll stay on the coaches.
11:17That's going to be a majority of the show.
11:19I know most people aren't really talking about the bills right now.
11:23We'll talk about the.
11:24We're going to have all the bills back us, bro.
11:26We'll talk.
11:27Yeah, exactly.
11:28We'll talk about the approach to the Bills game and whether guys will sit or play or
11:31whatever.
11:32But Commander Ray asks, have the young players failed the coaches or has the coaching staff
11:37failed the players?
11:38Example, Polk.
11:39Example, is Polk actually bad or is it poor coaching?
11:42And I asked this question on Twitter, and I don't even know if I know the answer.
11:46I sort of just threw it out there where the Ladd-McConkie comparison with Jalen Polk.
11:51So would like, would Ladd-McConkie look like what he looks like in L.A. in New England?
11:57Or like, is it, is it, is it a talent evaluation thing or is it a player development issue
12:03that's going on with these young draft picks and the players versus coaches?
12:06What's your kind of take on this whole situation?
12:08I think it's player development because Ladd-McConkie, the reason he seemed like such a surefire player
12:14and the reason he slid was because one, the back issue, not insignificant.
12:18That's why Gronk fell out of the first round out of Arizona.
12:21And also the size thing where it's like, all right, he's probably more of like a pure slot.
12:25He can play that Z, but you're not like lining him outside all the time, right?
12:28It's like a Julian Edelman type of guy where it's in a stack, close to the line of scrimmage,
12:32try to get him off press looks and things like that.
12:34I think McConkie is the kind of player this receiver room needs where he didn't need a
12:38ton of development.
12:39He knew how to run routes.
12:40He knew how to get open.
12:41He had a very good feel for the game.
12:43That is, and that's why I think veterans need to be added.
12:46I don't think that you've seen enough from the receiver coaches where it doesn't seem
12:50like a coincidence that Keishon Booty obviously got better in year two, but that seemed more
12:53like he got his head on straight.
12:55But then he's also had a drive problem.
12:56He also has had effort problems where it seems like he's not finishing routes when it's you
13:00for him in college to Mario Douglas, great against man.
13:04But it seems like still when it comes to zone coverage, broken plays, he doesn't necessarily
13:08know what to do all the time.
13:10And then obviously you got the two young receivers who were guys that, you know, Jalen Polk,
13:13number one needed to work on his separation, but was very good at the catch point.
13:17Jayvon Baker also had a lot of things needed to work on, but had a ton of physical tools
13:21and a lot of instinctive things were like downfield, his ball skills, knowing how to
13:25win at the catch point, those things he had, but he needed to be more refined.
13:29So receiver wise, I think the coaching staff has really not been able to maximize the young
13:34receivers.
13:36The rest of the offense, I think schematically, you know, I, there's, I think it means something
13:43when the older players are the ones doing everything right.
13:45For the most part, like even since I have the turnovers, obviously that's not been great.
13:48There have been mental mistakes, tight ends are doing well.
13:51The running backs were doing well for a while until, you know, obviously things are going
13:54downhill this week.
13:56And the offensive line has been what it is, of course, defensively is where I feel like
14:00maybe coaching fails the players and not even really position coaches necessarily.
14:05It feels like a top down thing where the only players who are consistently decent are the
14:10corners for the most part.
14:12And even those guys are like just one of the position groups that are most removed from
14:16the core of the defense.
14:17You're pretty much on an Island a lot of the time.
14:19It was really like safety linebacker defensive line where you're just like, it feels like
14:24they're not really keened in on what's going on necessarily.
14:27So it's a tough question.
14:28But I'd say receivers, it definitely feels like the coaching hasn't really done a lot
14:33to help them.
14:34Although I think Dan Pelt has put them in good positions, they just don't always capitalize.
14:37With defense, it does feel like from a top level, they have kind of not really put themselves
14:43in great positions.
14:44But then you got like safety's Del Pettis is playing pretty well.
14:48Alex Austin for two years straight, not been like perfect or anything, but it's been playing
14:51pretty well for you.
14:52Like Christian Ellis is a pretty inexperienced defensive guy.
14:56He's inconsistent, but in ways that you understand.
14:58So yeah, it's a tough question to ask and we don't know directly.
15:01But I think defense and receivers, you could probably say they're not really getting a
15:04ton of help.
15:05Yeah, I'm with you there.
15:06All right, on this one, I just wanted to throw this in there.
15:09This is we already kind of answered this.
15:11This was from earlier, but am I alone in thinking Mayo and AVP should keep their jobs and on
15:15the fence with Covington?
15:16No, you're not alone.
15:17I think that's sort of the well, I shouldn't say the majority and the majority think that
15:21Mayo should go.
15:23But if he does stay, I think most most would agree that it should be AVP that stays over
15:28Covington for sure.
15:30But then we've talked about this and we talked about it a little bit earlier on today, Taylor,
15:35when we were down in Foxboro.
15:37What are the positive reasons slash arguments for keeping Mayo through next season?
15:44Besides not making ownership look bad, what like can you can you pull anything right now
15:48that tells you, OK, maybe they should keep this going?
15:52It's tough, especially at this point in the year, because before the bye week, I would
15:55have said they were ready coming out of training camp.
15:57I thought that they really did show signs of improvement, like the penalty issue, where
16:01it was kind of up and down.
16:02But you did see that when you really got down on it, they improved.
16:06So like training camp, getting them ready for week one, the games that they did bounce
16:10back after some bad losses early to midseason.
16:13That hasn't happened recently.
16:14And maybe, you know, if you really want to play devil's advocate for me, you could say,
16:18hey, it's later in the season.
16:19The mentality is kind of different.
16:21That Bill's game may have been everything they had left in the tank.
16:26Short week against the Chargers like you can make excuses if you really wanted to, right?
16:30I'm trying to play devil's advocate here just for the sake of argument.
16:34If we're talking about the last few weeks, I think it's that there isn't a full on like
16:38people openly questioning or criticizing Mayo.
16:42That's not nothing because it's happening for it seems like Govington.
16:45It's happening for players where they're calling each other out.
16:47But no one is really calling out Mayo.
16:51And that's it.
16:54That is it.
16:55I think that's it.
16:56I think the only other thing I'm sort of scraping at the bottom of the barrel is they seem to
17:02answer after getting embarrassed every single time and.
17:08The embarrassments kind of like X that out where, OK, great.
17:14You get you know, you make you have a bad game, but then you come back strong, but don't
17:18have the bad game in the first place and don't give yourself the ability to need to come
17:21back stronger.
17:22You know, even after Arizona, we sat on postgame and we had these same Mayo conversations after
17:27that Arizona game, and then they came out and played Buffalo really tough two weeks
17:30ago.
17:31And he kind of got that, got that stuff back.
17:33And it happened after they went over to play in London against Jacksonville, they came
17:38back the next week and had a better showing.
17:40So every time it feels like rock bottom, he does get the guys to come back and play.
17:46But if that's the only reason that and the ownership looking bad, I'm sorry.
17:53Cut the cord.
17:54And I think that's just kind of where we're at right now.
17:56And it's the only reason he gives us because Mike Reese's and other reporters have given
18:00him an opportunity to be like, hey, man, what do you do?
18:03Well, defend yourself.
18:04Right.
18:05And all he says is guys come into work and competing.
18:07And that means a lot.
18:08It's like, bro, like chooks quit on you.
18:10And I know it's just one example.
18:11I know.
18:12I know.
18:13I know.
18:14It's so out there.
18:15I don't know of anything on anything on on Mayo because what he told me as the last person,
18:21at least that I know that he spoke to before he left the team, which is when he was like,
18:25yeah, I just don't feel comfortable with tackle.
18:27And I'm not making excuses.
18:28And I know I didn't play well enough, but I just do not feel comfortable there.
18:32And he said that the last and it seems like I would find it very hard to believe that
18:36he didn't have any conversations with the coaches about like, seriously, I don't want
18:40to do this.
18:41And if he did like, hey, that's on him or whatever.
18:43But it still feels like a much worse indictment on coaching than it does on the guy who signed
18:47him as as being a league average starter.
18:50So, yeah, all Mayo has been able to tell us is, hey, the guys show up and they work.
18:55And sure, that's not nothing.
18:57You know, like Gibson has said many, many times, I've been in locker rooms or guys throwing
19:01the towel midseason.
19:02We haven't done that.
19:03Right.
19:04That truly is.
19:05If we are going to be critical of Mayo, we have to say that's a feather in his cap.
19:08My opinion, that ain't enough because they're going to play for Grable, too.
19:13It's like anything you can say about Mayo, you can also say about Grable, and he showed
19:16it over multiple seasons, also surrounded himself with good coaching as that CEO type
19:21of was also hands on and had a very good pulse on the organization.
19:25His biggest issues were that he didn't get along with the front office.
19:28Right.
19:29And if he and Wolfe are on the same page and they have the same dynamic that Mayo and Wolfe
19:32have, then like genuinely, what benefit do you have of bringing Mayo back?
19:38Because anything you can say positively about him or his messaging or what his goals are,
19:42I see the exact same thing about Mike Grable, who has a coach of the year trophy.
19:45The only reason he'll be back is because Robert and Jonathan want to stay the course on what
19:49they said before the season, and they have the right to do that as ownership.
19:54I just think that it's not the right decision.
19:57I think even deep down lie detector tests on those guys, they know it's not the right
20:01decision, but they still want to stand their ground because they've all admitted that it
20:06was going to be a long process.
20:09There's more like they also set a standard.
20:12Mayo set a standard.
20:13They set a standard of getting better, showing tangible improvement.
20:16True.
20:17Like my dude, if the only thing keeping you here is that players didn't quit on you, which
20:21I did say, to be fair, I said that's like the last straw where it's like completely
20:27out of the window, but like in the locker room, we're literally right there.
20:30Like maybe he's not hasn't lost the locker room.
20:32He's not close to doing that exactly, but literally everything else is bad.
20:36So it's like, all right, do you really need it to be a complete dumpster fire where you're
20:42talking about that over next year?
20:44Things are another just complete shit storm and you've got to weather it for another few
20:48months.
20:49Right.
20:50I know you just mentioned next October.
20:51I want to get to that.
20:52I want to get to another awesome, generous super chat here.
20:55We have a lot of questions coming in as well.
20:56So this may, well, I don't know, we'll see how long we can take this thing.
20:59But first, before we get into the rest of it, where am I?
21:03I want to talk about our friends at prize picks because prize picks is the best place
21:09to get real money.
21:11Sports action with over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings.
21:15Prize picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all.
21:19And all you have to do is pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win
21:23up to 1000 times your cash, run your game all season long with us here on prize picks.
21:29It's playoff time.
21:30It's now or never.
21:31Don't miss out on the last few weeks of football action with prize picks.
21:35Again, the best place to win cash while watching the playoffs.
21:38They also offer MasterCard now on top of Venmo cash outs for quick and easy deposits into
21:44your account.
21:45This sports season, I think Lamar Jackson will get more than 250 passing yards next
21:49week.
21:50Wilma home pass for more than one and a half touchdowns.
21:52Come cook up hot takes with your friends on prize picks and win that real money throughout
21:57the football season.
21:58you got to do to join us is download the app today and use code CLNS to get $50 instantly
22:03after you play your first $5 lineup.
22:06That's code CLNS.
22:07You get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup prize fix, run your game.
22:14Where's that new layout?
22:15Where was it?
22:16Oh, I got it.
22:17I got it.
22:18Yeah, I got it.
22:19There we are.
22:20Okay.
22:21Uh, can I see one thing that we're just thinking of?
22:25Absolutely.
22:26So another issue that I have is the whole personnel thing and how, and maybe we'll,
22:31we'll touch on this.
22:32I'll more talk on the response where conversation has been about, all right, is now going to
22:36play all the starters.
22:37Is he going to give young guys opportunities?
22:40Because he said that he wanted these young guys to show what they had so they could have
22:44an impression of them going into the off season yet today when I asked him about that and
22:49what kind of opportunity is this for the young guys, potentially whatever, we'll see how
22:53the game goes.
22:54Okay.
22:55Then he's asked about the conversations and all that.
22:58And he says that he, Wolf and Kraft have consistent conversations about personnel.
23:02They have not talked about how things are going to work out personnel wise in the game.
23:07How does that make sense, man?
23:09You keep talking about wanting to play the young guys, getting them more experienced
23:12yet you have Marty Mop who was a healthy scratch twice, Kyle Duggars playing on one good ankle
23:19and you won't even acknowledge the fact that these young guys do need more reps.
23:22This is the one time where I will justify, I will understand you putting Jalen Polk and
23:27Jayvon Baker out there, even if they're not performing super well in practice, because
23:31you know you're playing backups.
23:32To not even have had the conversation, as long as we know, because we know that he says
23:35one thing and then something else happens on the scene sometimes, but to not have had
23:39the conversation.
23:40And then when I tried to, maybe I'm not trying to say this, I'm taking it personally, I don't
23:43care, but really to not even talk about what great of an opportunity this is for those
23:48young guys or even really acknowledge it is so bizarre to me.
23:52I was thinking about that because I'm kind of going through the transcript.
23:53I was going through the transcript during the interview, I was like, Tom Curran also
23:57gave him an opportunity to talk about the culture he's installing.
23:59He didn't say anything, just like, even when he doesn't say anything now, it's just like,
24:05but dude, we're at the end of the season.
24:07You need to be giving us better answers.
24:09It doesn't mean you need to be making headlines for bad reasons, but like, take more accountability
24:13other than just like, hey, I need to get better.
24:15No shit bro, like I need to hear where you feel like you need to grow.
24:20And it felt like he kept getting questions that were giving him opportunities to make
24:23himself look better.
24:24And he just went to old fellow, checking it all about, couldn't say anything, dude, it
24:29feels like a total lack of awareness.
24:31For context on that.
24:32He was asked today over the last couple of days, have Elliot Wolf and ownership or anyone
24:37in ownership rather had input on the approach when it comes to, we'll play on Sunday.
24:41He said he's in constant communication with Elliot and ownership.
24:45I've never been a part of a team as a player or a coach where we haven't gone out there
24:49and tried to win the game.
24:50So those conversations haven't happened.
24:53Like dude, no one is saying to tank you're playing backups.
24:56This is not the same conversation and you're not bill where he can give this response.
25:01And it's like, all right, whatever it's bill.
25:04Like you need to be more transparent in these types of things because these are going along
25:08with messages that you sent and you're not even going to acknowledge the fact that, yeah,
25:12the bills are playing their backups and publicly stated it.
25:15Or maybe knowing Mayo, honestly, maybe he just doesn't know.
25:18Maybe that's factoring into it too.
25:19I don't know, but it just feels so bizarre not to acknowledge that young guys do need
25:23to get more reps and you have a prime opportunity with no possible winning.
25:26You're talking about, oh, we want to win the game.
25:28We know you want to win the game, but like, this is a unique situation that it feels like
25:32should be acknowledged, but you know what?
25:35Maybe he just didn't want to screw up.
25:36Maybe I'm being too critical now because it feels like this is all just coming to such
25:39an aggressive head.
25:41But like, I just felt like that press conference and his answers did not do nearly enough when
25:45he was getting opportunities to kind of give himself more or get more understanding at
25:51least from the fan base.
25:52Sure.
25:53All right.
25:54Well, we will get into that as far as just there.
25:57No, that's fine.
25:58I know you had to say it and you were in the transcript, but we'll get into more of the
26:01game plan ideas this weekend in Buffalo.
26:03But first let's keep it on the variable stuff and awesome.
26:06We appreciate you, Jeff, for the super chat here.
26:09If Patriots can, uh, hold on.
26:13If the Patriots can't get variable, should they still fire Gerard Mayo and follow up?
26:18Will they lose draft picks if they hire variable due to Rooney rule or collusion?
26:22So if they do ultimately hire variable, they're going to do it the right way and not the right
26:29way, the right way.
26:30And that is still going through the process and interviewing guys, and they'll probably
26:34have the sham interview, which is too bad.
26:36And that's why the Rooney rule stinks.
26:38But I don't think they'll like, they have, they're required to follow the rule if they
26:43make a move, um, uh, if they fire Mayo and if like, they're going to still have to interview
26:48a bunch of other people.
26:49They can't just bring in variable.
26:51They're not even allowed to bypass it.
26:52So, um, they probably won't lose draft pick conversation.
26:56I don't think they'll, unless they, you know, launch an investigation and find that they
26:59somehow colluded and told him that he would have the job before they go into those, uh,
27:04you know, into those other interviews.
27:06Yeah.
27:07Taylor, if they can't get variable, do you still think they should fire Mayo?
27:11Like, are you still on board with moving on from Mayo and trying, you know, for a Ben
27:15Johnson or trying for any other head coach candidate out there, or are you kind of hell
27:18bent on variable right now?
27:20Um, one, I, yeah, I don't think one, I think the league knows what goes on with the Rooney
27:25rule.
27:26I don't think they would even launch an investigation unless it was very, very obvious or like Laura's
27:31somebody complaint.
27:32So yeah, I don't think that's on the table.
27:34Um, I think they, I mean, obviously they have to interview people.
27:38I wonder if they would interview Flores because he's still in a legal battle with the NFL.
27:42Yeah.
27:43That's a little iffy, but like he's one of him and Aaron Glenn will be great minority
27:47candidates to genuinely interview as defensive guys who have had a lot of success on teams
27:53that are very good right now.
27:54I think it would make perfect sense to sincerely interview them and see what their perspective
27:59is, what they could bring all those different kinds of aspects.
28:02Um, but one, honestly, I think if Rabel wants the job, he gets it.
28:06I don't think there's any world where Mayo gets fired and Vrabel isn't one of the top
28:10guys in consideration and doesn't want the Patriots more than anything else.
28:14Cause you've got the quarterback, you know, ownership is going to be fine with you because
28:18like if you are Vrabel, like, yeah, I know I'm going to do my job.
28:21I don't think ownership is going to mess with it.
28:22And I think the Patriots for the most part do a pretty good job with that.
28:25Right.
28:26Um, so you got that, you got quarterback, you got money, you got traffic.
28:29This is a great, great destination.
28:31If you feel confident that ownership is going to handle you the right way, because obviously
28:34the Mayo thing would make things look a little murky.
28:36That would kind of make me hesitate, honestly, if I'm Mike Vrabel, um, the idea that he's
28:41what you're, he's sorry, but they're probably firing him for you.
28:46That's the thing.
28:47Right.
28:48That is the thing.
28:49But then you look at it.
28:50There's a way to look at it.
28:51If you're him where, well, you just told, you're going to tell me all these things that,
28:53you know, we want you and we made this mistake and we're going to give you the, they'll probably
28:57give him some sort of runway where we know that the roster is not in a good spot, but
29:02we want to give you the opportunity to build it.
29:04They said those same things that you're on Mayo a year ago and they can't have after
29:07one bad season.
29:08So in variables mind is he's saying, well, what if I, you know, what if things don't
29:11go my way next year?
29:12And we end up four and 13 once again, like, are you going to just fire me after one year?
29:17So I would want.
29:19I think the comeback to that is like, well, at least we know that you can do this.
29:24I agree.
29:25Like emphasize the fact that Mayo had no track record.
29:28We tried to give him a chance and it was a literal disaster.
29:32Like by pretty much every definition other than the locker room, openly calling him out.
29:36This is about as bad as it can get.
29:38Yeah.
29:39It, uh, it's, it's like short of like genuine, like, um, urban Meyer or like really where
29:46you're like physically assaulting people.
29:49Or usually again, you see the situation where you get fired like mid season.
29:53Yeah.
29:54So as a first year coach, I feel like this is as bad as it really could be.
29:57Um, cause even Dan Campbell, I don't know how, just how discouraged people were after
30:01his first year.
30:02Cause I think his messaging was consistent.
30:03And I also think that you could see what he was trying to build.
30:07Whereas with Mayo just feels so flimsy.
30:09And I think that's, that's the, that's the bottom line is that he's inexperienced and
30:13seems like he's in over his head.
30:14I don't think that'd be the case with.
30:16Yeah, I'm with you.
30:17Um, all right, let's move on to some free agency talk.
30:21Top three realistic free agent targets for the Patriots this offseason Taylor, where
30:25do you think they should turn to?
30:27Um, one Patrick McCurry from the Ravens.
30:30I think he gives you insurance at left guard and right tackle to places where you're going
30:34to have second year players that even if they play really well next week, he can't go into
30:38next season banking on them.
30:39I don't think like these are third and fourth round picks.
30:42You're hoping these guys become starters.
30:44That's what the third and fourth round are for, but you can't walk it in.
30:47I think that's one of a realistic one.
30:49Darius Slayton is one that I really like.
30:51I've talked about a lot.
30:52Even if they signed T Higgins, I think him and Darius Slayton give you some versatility.
30:56It gives you some juice that you really need to high character guys.
30:59I know we said that about KJ Osborne, but Slayton is a guy who actually does have explosiveness
31:04and has played well.
31:05He just has never had a good quarterback.
31:07Um, also was a Walter Payton man of the year nominee for the giants.
31:09I think that would be huge.
31:11T Higgins beloved in Cincinnati.
31:12Oh, I'm sorry.
31:13I don't even know what I'm talking about.
31:15Darius Slayton.
31:16I love that combination, but I think Slayton somebody they really could get.
31:19Then I have to go on the defensive side of the ball.
31:21I'd say probably Josh sweat.
31:23He's 28 years old coming from the Eagles has had success.
31:27Also 28.
31:28That was the age that Matt Judon was when he signed it.
31:31He still had a pretty good, you know, we had a pretty good run into England.
31:33So I would say those are my top three that if none of those guys got signed, I'd be pretty
31:39upset if it wasn't because they just signed somebody that was significantly better.
31:42But Slayton and sweat are guys that I, in my brain, like they should be penciled in.
31:47I don't see how you don't bring those guys when you need so much help with that position.
31:50And then again, the offensive line stuff, I think Ken Robinson and Trey Smith are the
31:55guys you'd really like.
31:56Maybe a large, a lyrical Eric, I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but Jackson from the
31:59Rams left tackle.
32:00I think he's another ideal candidate, but I think maybe they go somewhere else.
32:05Maybe somebody throws some more money and Patrick McCurry seems like he wouldn't be
32:07super expensive, but if they wanted to lean on their young guys, he's a very good insurance
32:11policy.
32:12Whoever maybe isn't doing as well.
32:14Yeah.
32:15I think the good, uh, you know, the good news, uh, with them, as far as entering free agency
32:20is like when you put realistic in asterisks, a lot of that is because, you know, well,
32:26are they really going to be able to shell out cash to person or X, Y, Z, but they are,
32:31they're the number one, uh, they have the most cap space in the NFL in like $36 million.
32:37Right.
32:38So draft, I think it's like, you want to save like 15 million or something like that.
32:43So you're talking about like a true, like $120 million to spend, right?
32:48So they can actually do it.
32:49So anyone's realistic, anyone is realistic if you're willing to pony it up.
32:55And if people are willing to come here, which is the next question, why would any free agent
33:00want to come here on a three wind Gerard Mayo team?
33:03And I think it's a great question.
33:04I think that these are the types of questions, ownerships and ownership needs to ask themselves
33:09when they go into these, uh, or when they go into this decision-making process after
33:13the season, because yeah, money talks and yeah, if you really do vastly overpay for
33:20guys, they're probably going to come here.
33:21But if you're in a bidding war between two teams, what, why would guys want to come to
33:26this nonsense organization was what it kind of feels like right now.
33:30So does this factor in, and I guess to answer the question, Taylor, why would guys want
33:36to come here?
33:37Drake may, I know that's it.
33:40It's Drake.
33:41May.
33:42That's the only answer right now.
33:43And cause you don't know, you don't have any assurances from leadership.
33:48You don't, you don't know what Gerard Mayo is going to be.
33:50At least last year you could say, Hey, this defense is really good.
33:53We just need help on offense.
33:54Nah, you need help on both sides of the ball.
33:57There's nothing you can sell outside of we have the quarterback, we have assets, we are
34:01going to fix these things.
34:02It's like, at least again, last off season, you said we get the quarterback and we want
34:06to build around him.
34:07Right.
34:08But now it's not just building around the quarterback.
34:10It's also, we got to fix, we have to fix the defense.
34:12Oh, by the way, that's actually a good point.
34:14Our facilities for the next two years, aren't going to be very good.
34:17We're trying, but you're going to kind of have to suck it up for the next year or two.
34:22You've got the fact that there's the tax obviously, where I know the Patriots for certain players
34:26will pay that tax to kind of offset whatever offer they got somewhere else.
34:30But like, this is not an ideal destination, weather wise, location wise, coaching and
34:35winning wise.
34:37There's really no reason that anybody would want to come here unless it's just like, damn,
34:41that's a lot of money.
34:42And I can't say no.
34:43And maybe if someone has an Alex Van Pelt connection, I know that helped with Austin
34:46Cooper because he really liked playing for AVP and that Cleveland offense.
34:50And like he ran things, KJ Osborne, I'm starting to think he just didn't have any good offers
34:54anywhere else.
34:55He was a late, he was a late ad.
34:57He wasn't really signed.
34:58There was no really market for him.
35:00It didn't seem like exactly.
35:01So that's why I am so hesitant to give Mayo another year, because if you go into free
35:08agency and can't sign people because they don't take you seriously, right?
35:13This is the year that you really, if they spend the money wisely, they fill all of their,
35:19especially like the premium positions, edge rusher, wide receiver, left tackle.
35:23If you can address all of those in free agency and then also get guys to fill the other holes.
35:28Cause when you look at it, they have like seven openings.
35:30You can fill them with starting caliber talent, maybe not elite talent, but like good players.
35:35Then you go into the draft and you truly get best player available.
35:38Maybe stack up with young defensive talent, which I think they sneakily need.
35:42We're not talking about that.
35:43I think we are talking about that a good amount.
35:44It's not getting talked about enough, how much help they need on defense, even if you
35:48know, you get guys healthy next year.
35:50So it's a scary situation.
35:52And I hope that, like you said, the crafts are asking around and I hope that both is
35:56being very honest with them in his assessment of like, I don't know that I can do my job
36:01if you keep Mayo, it's going to make me look bad.
36:05Part about like paying the Massachusetts tax.
36:07Like yeah, I get that.
36:10It's a good thing that it seemed like ownership was willing to try and do that with Calvin
36:14Ridley.
36:15So they're actually willing to, you know, overpay and max guys out.
36:19But also you might not have to pay that if you're a, um, you're an attractive destination
36:27because guys would just want to come here for, you know, a decent price because of a
36:31new head coach or Mike Vrabel, the ability to play with Drake may.
36:36And so like, yeah, it's a good thing, but also if you switch things up, you're not going
36:40to like that eats into the other, the rest of your cap, if you're overpaying for guys
36:44for other things.
36:45So it's just, there's no attraction.
36:49It's a tough spot to be in.
36:50It really is.
36:51And like, I do feel for Mayo, like we sit on here and we, you know, rip through them
36:56and he's not in an easy situation and he's not in an easy situation.
37:01He's never done this before.
37:02And he was given this job a lot earlier than expected to not have connections around the
37:08league to not be able to bring guys in, to, to be under fire constantly.
37:12Now, like I do feel for him, it just, I almost feel bad for him because he wasn't put in
37:17an ideal situation to succeed.
37:19And this is just kind of where we're at at this point.
37:21So, and we even talked about it in the car on the way to the stadium, how we've been
37:25McAdoo as your guy with head coaching experience.
37:29It's like, that's awesome.
37:30In a lot of ways, you also like somebody who had success, I know because McAdoo is very
37:35good when a non-head coaching role, when he does have that experience, maybe it could
37:38help Mayo avoid some pitfalls, but he also doesn't have the credibility of someone who
37:42knows what success looks like as the head coach.
37:45And that would maybe help him a lot.
37:47You know, we were the ones who were saying how hard it was.
37:49That's why I don't really feel that bad that we've done a bit of an about face because
37:53he, we tried to defend him and give him, not even defend him.
37:56I don't know.
37:57I struggled to say, right?
37:58Like, I think we tried to say he's struggling, but like, realistically you have to give him
38:04some ability to improve down the stretch.
38:08But then when he made all these promises post-five week, things got worse.
38:11It's like, yeah.
38:12Now again, when we ran out of things to defend and it became, yeah, I'm sorry, dude.
38:15I know it wasn't easy, but I keep coming back to, if we didn't have to address his press
38:21conference mess ups, I think there'd be way, way more patients surrounding Gerard.
38:26But the fact that like, even coaches, people who have coached before and listen to these
38:29press conferences are being like, oh my God, like, dude, stop saying these things.
38:34And it's continued and he's Mr. Don't repeat the same mistakes.
38:38It just looks like, he just looks like a massive, massive hypocrite after this season in so
38:43many ways.
38:44And it's hard.
38:45Like, sometimes I hate the, I know you hate the criticism of, you know, the media and
38:50how guys talk because you're the X's and O's guys and you don't want to have to deal with
38:53this stuff.
38:54And in a vacuum, if you make these little gaffes, like, you know, when he, when he says
39:00Antonio Gibson is starting and then they start Armando Stevenson, like if that happens once
39:04in a season, like, so be it like you messed up, but it's, it's over and over and over
39:09and over and over again, it comes to a point where it's just unprofessional and actually
39:13becomes a problem and everything has spiraled on top of each other.
39:17And now it's like, what is this guy even doing?
39:19It just makes, it makes the entire operation look incredibly unprofessional.
39:23So having said that, we will listen to our friends over at game time here, and then we
39:28will wrap up today's show, looking into some questions on how the Patriots are actually
39:33going to tackle this weekend's game against the bills.
39:36It's the holiday season, and that means it is also the best time to watch and attend
39:41your favorite sports games.
39:42And you can do so right now with the game time app game time is focused on togetherness
39:47this holiday season.
39:48And that means when you bring people together at live events, the experience is that much
39:52better.
39:53And it's the perfect holiday gift.
39:55They also have a new feature called game time picks that makes getting tickets to live events
40:00even easier.
40:01It filters out the fluff and shows you only the incredible deals on great seats.
40:05So you don't have to waste your time searching through thousands of tickets, game time picks
40:09best feature.
40:10They also have all in pricing.
40:12You toggle it on and it shows you the exact price you're going to pay at checkout.
40:16No fees, no garbage, just the price right there on the app.
40:19They also have seat views.
40:20It gives you a panoramic view from your seat in the app before you buy your tickets.
40:25And they also have their lowest price guarantee or game time will credit you 110% of the difference.
40:31So take the guesswork out of buying tickets today with game time, download the game time
40:36app, create an account and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase terms apply
40:41again, create an account and redeem code CLNS for $20 off.
40:46Download game time today.
40:47What time is it?
40:48Game time.
40:49Oh no, my expensive camera.
40:50There we go.
40:51Oh, that's so funny.
40:52It is game time.
40:53It's time to wrap up the pod, but a quick look at the game time app right now.
41:06And, um, let's see what you can get into Gillette stadium for this weekend.
41:11Uh, again, we talked about it on our Monday show, $41 right now on game time.
41:17So you look at it closer to game time.
41:21Yeah.
41:22It's probably go down closer, but 41 is not bad to go in frankly, root for a loss, which
41:28I think a lot of fans are going to do, uh, the fire Mayo chance, the booze last week
41:32kind of stunk, but all players, their entire sections where you could see what color they
41:38were.
41:39Right.
41:40I mean, to, to, to the team's credit and to Gerard Mayo's credit, they all said this week
41:45that, um, you know, like the booze are warranted, like the, these guys go and pay.
41:51Yeah.
41:52And I was like, bro, that's not even, that was not smart, but Hey, if you want to start
41:57chance, if you want to cheer them on, or if you want to, uh, just try and root for this
42:01team to lose and get the number one pick this weekend, you can do so.
42:04And you can do a get in on game time app right now, $41 and use code CLNS to get $20 off
42:10your first purchase.
42:11All right.
42:12Let's wrap it up here.
42:13Taylor.
42:14Will the Patriots use this game?
42:15Like we would like they would excuse me, a preseason game.
42:18Where do you think they go with this?
42:19Our guy's going to play.
42:20Our guy's going to sit is Meg's going to start.
42:22It sounds like may is going to start.
42:24I think we both agree that he should start and then probably sit second half, three quarters,
42:29what have you.
42:30How do you think they're going to actually go about it?
42:32I'm not going to predict how I think they're going to go about it.
42:34Cause I don't know what this team is thinking.
42:37I'm going to say what I would, um, you know, me with all the credibility and whatnot.
42:41Um, I would treat it like a preseason game because the bills are treating it like a preseason
42:45game.
42:46Realistically.
42:47Do you want to win?
42:48Yes.
42:49Obviously at the same time, I think you can do that.
42:52If you give, you know, your younger guys more time than they usually get in practice, treat
42:56this truly like a preseason game, because one, I don't see what benefit there is to
43:01having Drake may play 60 minutes against backups.
43:04I'm sorry.
43:05I know you want him to get NFL experience, bump that dude, give him a half for sure.
43:09Maybe a few drives.
43:10Cause I do think he had a couple of rough games last week, I think was his worst game
43:14where he fully played.
43:15I didn't fully play.
43:16I obviously left because of a suspected concussion, but I thought it was his least impressive
43:19performance this season.
43:20So would very much like to see him just finish on a high note, then get him the hell out
43:24of there.
43:25I don't see what a benefit there is to playing Kyle Duggar.
43:28I don't see what benefit there is to playing Mike and one who for a full game, if you thought
43:31it was appropriate to pull starters last week, I think that's what you have to do this week
43:36for sure.
43:37Like get them some early reps and all that.
43:39I understand that to a degree, but I also think it's kind of silly to just treat this
43:45like it's any other game.
43:46When you just got blown out, you're not getting any more positive faith in the fan base.
43:50And I don't know if they're thinking about it, but I think if you're going to be self-aware,
43:54that's something you have to acknowledge because the perception would be, we're throwing
43:57this game, right?
43:59I don't think that's the perception when you have your quarterback, you don't want to get
44:02him injured.
44:03And again, you have several young players that you want to play a role for you next
44:06year who are going to be on the roster that you haven't seen a whole lot of, and who would
44:10benefit even against backups from those reps, just so you can see, okay, maybe if this is
44:15like, you know, their preseason later in the year, what does it look like?
44:18Kind of a similar situation in that vein.
44:19So they should, again, I just don't see how you justify it.
44:23Maybe on defense, like I would say Godshaw is a guy, Anthony Jennings, maybe to a degree
44:31Jelani Tavai, Christian Gonzalez probably is going to be using concussion protocol.
44:35Again, Kyle Duggar.
44:36Those are the only defensive guys where I think, yeah, maybe you play them a couple
44:39of series and pull them.
44:40The rest, I mean, you're already depleted, so you have backups mostly playing on defense,
44:44but also not a whole lot of guys that deserve to get that kind of treatment.
44:47And I don't think it's that hard to look your veterans in the eye and say, hey, you guys,
44:51you know, you were part of this.
44:52We know what we have on the roster.
44:54Young guys, it's your time.
44:55What veteran is going to get mad at that?
44:57I know Godshaw said, like, I want to play.
44:59You're really going to tell me he's going to make a fuss if you're like, hey, we need
45:02to get these reps to Eric Johnson or, you know, Jeremiah Farms.
45:05You can justify it.
45:06You're not tanking.
45:08You're just making sure that you are seeing what you have, like you said you would.
45:11So, and that's another reason why the messaging for this weekend is frustrating me because
45:15like you laid the groundwork to completely justify an approach of what I think they should
45:20do.
45:21Maybe treating kind of like a preseason game.
45:23I don't know if they will, but I can tell you this, if Drake May plays wire to wire,
45:28it's going to be a, it's going to be an interesting postgame show.
45:30So that's that, that brings us to our last question here.
45:33And it is, if they do sit Drake May, do you think that implies Mayo's job is safe as in
45:42Mayo needs at least what it seems to not have this thing be a disaster.
45:47And so in his mind and in ownership's mind, if you will, he should go out there and try
45:54and win this football game.
45:55And if he's not, and if they are using it as a development game and not necessarily
46:00caring about the scoreboard and if it gets out of hand, so be it because that's just
46:05kind of what this is.
46:06The score doesn't matter.
46:07So do you think that kind of implies that everyone's on the same page?
46:11They're going to see what they have in the young guys, Drake May's our guy, and also
46:14drawed Mayo's our guy, or is it kind of wishy-washy?
46:17Do you get what I'm kind of trying to say?
46:19I get what you're saying.
46:20I don't think Drake May's status in this game says anything about Gerard's job security.
46:25To be honest, if he's not having the conversations with ownership, if they do it, I don't think
46:29it's going to be something that ties into whether he's safe.
46:31I think he will want to play for a win because I do think, I know he wants to play for a
46:36win, obviously, but I do think he's going to want to end on a high note, which again,
46:39I get.
46:41I just, again, I hope he understands the situation he's in right now.
46:45Like, obviously you don't want to get blown out by backups, but if you lose to backups
46:49because you were playing a bunch of guys who barely seen any action this game, like you
46:53can explain that to ownership and be like, Hey, we wanted to get a better idea.
46:55Cause you just got blown out, bro.
46:57Like if you blow out the backups after losing last week in the fashion you did, who cares?
47:03Who cares?
47:04So yeah, I just, I don't think may status necessarily ties into it.
47:07Maybe I'm being naive.
47:08Maybe I'm not thinking about it enough.
47:09But yeah, I just don't see how this game has much of an effect on those job security.
47:14I think the only thing that could help him or loosen the job at this point is his plan
47:20for next season.
47:21And if he's willing to say, yeah, I need to surround myself with better coaching.
47:24I need more experience.
47:26I am not ready to do this on my own and I do need more help.
47:30And if he shows that self-awareness and is willing to put the work in to find other guys
47:34and all that awesome.
47:35If he doesn't and there aren't sweeping changes that he wants to make outside of the offense,
47:41which again, even the players have been saying is not the move.
47:45Like even Hunter Henry saying they should get a chance to grow in this offense, get
47:49better.
47:50Yeah.
47:51Right.
47:52I don't see that happening with the defense.
47:53I don't see what there is to get more comfortable in on the defense.
47:56So yeah, I don't think may has anything to do with it, but I think Mayo's comments to
48:00ownership after the season need, and I'm sure that he doesn't have a plan right now because
48:04he's just trying to, he's drinking from a fire hose, trying to end the season.
48:08But after that, when he gets the time to reflect, he needs to come at them and say, this is
48:11what I plan on doing.
48:12Just like what Belichick had before he was, before they mutually decided to part ways.
48:16Yeah.
48:17Right.
48:18And then Robert says what six months later on the breakfast club, but oh yeah, I fired
48:21Bill Belichick.
48:22Also, can't put all the crap on Mayo also for hurting the organization's credibility.
48:27Robert's done a pretty good job of that on his own as well in just embarrassing, embarrassing
48:32fashion.
48:33I mean, God, the messaging from this team has been from everyone.
48:36Who's not Alice van Pelt or a 22 year old rookie quarterback.
48:39The messaging from the leaders of this team has been dreadful all year.
48:43And again, you know, I didn't really want to talk about the drama stuff.
48:46I'm like, you know what?
48:48Crafts doing his thing.
48:49That doesn't really affect our job when he's just talking crap about Bill and making him
48:52look bad.
48:53Hey, right.
48:54That's not on us.
48:55That's for other people to talk about.
48:56And when Mayo's kind of stumbling at the beginning and spilling orange juice on himself, you
48:59give him the pass.
49:00And man, now that everything is almost in the barn, it's just like, Oh, this has been
49:04a rough, rough season from a PR standpoint as a PR major, by the way, I agree.
49:10And I think, uh, Oh, where is it?
49:13See that?
49:14That's a, that's a master's degree in PR right there.
49:17Maybe mine's not a master.
49:19So actually no, I'm not going to, I'll have a conversation with Gerard this cup now.
49:24That is not my job.
49:25My job is to actually answer this question right in front of me.
49:29I don't think that this week plays a part in Mayo's job either.
49:32I think, um, the, the last taste in ownership and this team's mouth should be that game
49:41against the chargers and that's what they should be making decisions on that and everything
49:46before that.
49:47I don't think this week matters with anything.
49:49I think this week is get through, get the seat, get, uh, get through the end of the
49:53season, keep Drake may healthy, secure the number one pick.
49:57If you can don't tank obviously, but look at what you have.
50:00And that kind of gives ownership and Elliot Wolf a 30,000 foot view of what else we have
50:05outside of Drake may.
50:07And if Mayo gets these guys to play hard this week against the bills backups and they win,
50:11I don't really care from an ownership standpoint.
50:13So I don't think his job would be safe with a win.
50:15I don't think sitting may this week makes it safe.
50:18I think everything's on the table still this off season.
50:21I do ultimately think they probably keep him, but, uh, I don't think that this week should
50:27necessarily matter.
50:28So, and think about it like this.
50:29Would you feel better if they won and Jalen Polk, Jayvon Baker, Jaheim bell, Joe Milton,
50:34don't do anything.
50:35Or would you feel better if they lose by a decent margin or like my, you know, whatever
50:40respectable, but Polk and Baker or like a two or three young guys actually show more
50:45promise than you thought they had at this point.
50:48What would make you feel better?
50:49I don't really care if Jalen Polk and Jayvon Baker pop off this week though, if they show
50:53some signs of life with 87 combined yards in 17 games, is that actually life?
51:0016?
51:01Is that actually, if Jay, if they just show, I think if literally Jayvon Baker shows anything,
51:06I think it makes people feel better because he's literally nothing.
51:09I think if Jalen Polk less so than Baker, but I do think if he does something positive
51:14and Jaheim bell who I, what do you have like one or two catches hasn't done anything with
51:18them.
51:19I think if those young skill position players can do something, if Joe Milton comes in and
51:22has some really great passes and you're like, Oh, so the quarterback development's been
51:25good.
51:26Another feather in Alex Van Pelt and TC McCartney's hat.
51:28Like I just think the fan base would feel much better if this year's draft picks showed
51:34some signs of life versus if you beat a bunch of backups playing your starters.
51:38I don't think that does anything positive for you.
51:40I think they may be like, Oh look, they're still fighting for Mayo.
51:42Well, you keep saying they're fighting for Mayo.
51:44Who gives a crap?
51:45I don't really care if they're still fighting in week 18.
51:47Honestly, I wouldn't be upset if they weren't fighting to be very frank with you because
51:52some guys are going to start making business decisions.
51:53Like it was implied that they were last year.
51:55So maybe, maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like it would be much more beneficial to show signs
52:00from your young players than to beat a team of backups.
52:03No, I, I I'm with you.
52:04I agree.
52:05I was just playing devil's advocate on the idea that does a hundred yard week 18 game
52:09against the bills.
52:10Backups actually make you feel better about Jalen Polk.
52:13I don't know.
52:14It's still nice.
52:15Baker.
52:16So I don't know.
52:18It's going to be fascinating.
52:19It's going to be interesting.
52:20We will have another couple of days to talk it out here as we will on Patriots daily.
52:25Thank you guys for tuning in.
52:26Thank you guys for all your questions.
52:27Thank you for the super chats, the new year's wishes, everything.
52:31We appreciate you and everyone who always follows along to the podcast.
52:35Myself and Taylor will be back here later on in the week as we continue getting through
52:39this final chapter of the Patriots season.
52:41So until next time, keep it real, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and
52:46we will see you next time.
52:47Peace out, everyone.