Taylor Kyles and Mike Kadlick provide instant analysis of the Patriots vs. Cardinals matchup! Tune in for an in-depth recap, player reaction, and more!
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00What is going on, everyone?
00:00:16Mike Kadlik, Taylor Kylus here for CLMS Media, back with Patriots postgame here.
00:00:21And Taylor, that wasn't good.
00:00:22It was not good whatsoever.
00:00:26There's no other way to sugarcoat it.
00:00:28There's no really, oh, well, at least this happened and that, no, you lose, you fall
00:00:32to three at 11, you lose 30 to 17.
00:00:35I just tweeted it out that it wasn't even that close.
00:00:38I mean, 13 point game wasn't good enough and they realistically, they lost by 20 and they
00:00:41had a couple of drives at the end where, you know, Drake went Drake May mode, which that's
00:00:45the one thing you can take out of this game is good quarterback play.
00:00:49Christian Gonzalez is good.
00:00:50And that's pretty much it.
00:00:51The defense soft all day.
00:00:53I would say, um, the offense conservative play calling Drake Mays running around for
00:00:58his life, not even running around for his life because they don't even trust themselves
00:01:01to throw it downfield all the time because the offensive line play is so bad.
00:01:04He was 10 of 10 in the first half.
00:01:06None of them went farther than the five yards.
00:01:08They start to finally open it up down the stretch and, um, they're able to get a little
00:01:12something going on offense, but let's just get right into it.
00:01:16And let's just talk right away about, you know, where this team is at future wise, Gerard
00:01:20Mayo, potentially, you know, firing the head coach, moving on from a guy like this, because
00:01:25you know, me and you Taylor, we have been, we have defended Gerard Mayo's right to rebuild
00:01:31this team, rebuild this franchise, um, the front office as well because of what they
00:01:36were handed.
00:01:37But in my opinion, when you come out of the bi-week, you have four games left, you know,
00:01:43you're not a good football team, but you also know that you have guys who are here for the
00:01:47long haul and you need to keep building this thing.
00:01:49You need to take these four games and like Gerard Mayo said, have to play spoiler.
00:01:53You have to play tough.
00:01:55You have to play games close.
00:01:57You can't get blown up four straight times.
00:01:59And right now they've done one and then there's three more to go.
00:02:01And so these are the types of losses that put a coach's job in jeopardy.
00:02:06I don't know if they'll do it.
00:02:07I don't even know if I'm ready to fully say they should absolutely move on from Gerard
00:02:12Mayo as head coach, but this gives them more ammo if that's what they end up deciding in
00:02:16the off season.
00:02:17I think it's lose 30 to 17 again, fall to three and 11 and just outside of outside of
00:02:23Drake may Chris Gonzalez.
00:02:25It's nothing good.
00:02:26Taylor.
00:02:27That's kind of where we're at right now.
00:02:28It's exactly where we're at, brother.
00:02:31I didn't even.
00:02:32So obviously it's like a slow start because you didn't come out of the gate the way you
00:02:35wanted to.
00:02:36You missed the field goal and all that for the offense.
00:02:39My biggest thing for most of the game was the offensive line just continuously shooting
00:02:42this team in the foot.
00:02:44That is the kind of thing where I'm like, you know what?
00:02:48I don't know if it gets fixed.
00:02:49I know we can say discipline coaching and all that, but at the end of the day, I think
00:02:53you're just overmatched every single week.
00:02:55I think the penalties are going to happen.
00:02:56You've got guys who, you know, the Darian low, as much as I think his play really has
00:03:01gotten better.
00:03:02It's the mental mistakes every single week where he's missing an adjustment or, you know,
00:03:07he's not getting the plate call or he's committing a penalty every week and he is fine if he's
00:03:13never making any mistakes because you don't hear his name very often.
00:03:15If I'm hearing your name for one reason or another, then you're not good enough.
00:03:19And it's every week now or almost every week where you're hearing his name.
00:03:23So you know, that's a problem that's going to happen late in Robinson getting called.
00:03:26Yes.
00:03:27A guy who's overmatched Trey Jacobs getting called Ben Brown, low snaps, you know, center
00:03:30competition going to heat up this week.
00:03:32All the guys on the offensive line who are making mistakes probably wouldn't or shouldn't
00:03:36be starting next year.
00:03:37Correct.
00:03:38That part, I'm willing to be like, you know what, let me dive into the tape a little bit
00:03:40more and just I'll say the offensive line was terrible.
00:03:43And I think that was the biggest really issue with the offense, right?
00:03:48Defense for most of the game.
00:03:49I was like, you know what?
00:03:50They gave up the touchdown drive.
00:03:51That was pretty bad.
00:03:53There's some ugly plays in pursuit.
00:03:55The run defense is giving up yards anytime the Cardinals need them, but they're bending
00:03:58and not breaking right again.
00:04:02Expectation management.
00:04:03I know the Kyle Duggars banged up.
00:04:04Jabril Peppers has missed a ton of time.
00:04:06Christian Ellis and Sione Takitaki are simply not good enough to be starting for you.
00:04:11And Jelani Tavaes being asked to do things he normally shouldn't.
00:04:14And then even Anthony Jennings out there with him in the mix.
00:04:15I think him being an every down player is starting to hurt on a down to down basis because
00:04:19you're starting to see him get exposed and run defense even more.
00:04:23So I think the defense is just in a really tough spot, coaches, players, what have you.
00:04:27But my thing is when it's just like Dale Pettis making mistakes is one thing.
00:04:31But when you get to the end of the game and it's not even the bend, but don't break where
00:04:36you're giving up field goals like that's something I can live with.
00:04:38You're giving up field goals to end drives a touchdown early and you tighten up.
00:04:42Now we're talking about the end of the game.
00:04:44You give up two walk in touchdowns and then you close the game.
00:04:47It's decided on another run up the gut where the guy gets a huge chunk and you're not even
00:04:51competitive.
00:04:54What am I supposed to say for Gerard May with that point?
00:04:57Because other times I'm like, you know what?
00:04:59They finished strong.
00:05:00You see the fight from the offense.
00:05:01You saw that.
00:05:02And one of the reasons I know we're going to talk about his job security.
00:05:05One of the reasons it's so frustrating is if they replace Mayo, they're going to replace
00:05:08him with an offensive minded coach.
00:05:10If you do that, you're, I know Alex Van Pelt has been perfect.
00:05:13There were some times they were too conservative, simply like, obviously they can get better,
00:05:17but he's done a great job with Drake May.
00:05:19And I think the offense, these guys are in the like, and I think when the offensive line
00:05:23isn't a liability, it looks fine and you can see how Drake may would elevate the talent
00:05:27around him.
00:05:29But when the offensive line is shooting you in the foot and then you replace the guy who
00:05:33even like created this foundation to begin with, then you're putting Drake May in a position
00:05:37where he may go through an entire other rebuild in his second season.
00:05:41But I'm still sitting here saying, well, something does need to change.
00:05:44I don't think it should be the offense, quite frankly.
00:05:46I think receivers coach, I think you need more out of that group.
00:05:49And I think Scott Peters is doing the most he can with what he has.
00:05:52I think the quarterback guys have done a great job.
00:05:54I think Taylor Embry's got some interesting ideas too.
00:05:56I just like to see the offensive line, have enough pieces to function defensively.
00:06:00It's bad everywhere.
00:06:01And other than the corners, the corners have done a great job.
00:06:04Mike Pellegrino and his group have been really impressive.
00:06:07You saw Christian Gonzalez still has only given up one deep target or one deep completion
00:06:13on now.
00:06:14I think it's going to be like 14 targets, the four came in this game.
00:06:17The corners have been really good.
00:06:19The defensive line has been so inconsistent.
00:06:21The linebackers are overmatched, but it still just looks like they're unprepared.
00:06:24Dante Hightower even acknowledged this week that it took him a while to kind of get going
00:06:28earlier in the season because he's a rookie as well.
00:06:31And then the safeties outside of Del Pettis, who's been up and down.
00:06:35But for a rookie, I do like what he's done.
00:06:37He gives up the catch to McBride, whatever.
00:06:40You expect he's going to have a struggle.
00:06:41That's a tough situation for a guy like that to be in, in that situation to third down
00:06:45ISO against one of the best tight ends in football.
00:06:48And then the screen before halftime where he recognizes it's slow.
00:06:51If that was, I think, like a Peppers in that situation where he was, he fires downhill
00:06:55and that gets blown up.
00:06:56But that's one where I'm like, it's the end of the season.
00:06:58You're not trying to get to the playoffs.
00:07:00I get it.
00:07:01You know, the young guys are going to make mistakes.
00:07:02That's part of this, but it's the veterans.
00:07:04It's Kyle Duggar.
00:07:05It's Jabril Peppers constantly taking bad angles to the ball.
00:07:09It's a Keon White getting moved at the point of attack.
00:07:12Like just the middle of the run defense, just getting hammered week in and week out.
00:07:16The middle should be your strength.
00:07:17Christian Barmore at half strength should be able to give you more than it feels like
00:07:21maybe not necessarily what we're getting out of him.
00:07:23But from this group where you have gotcha, you have Barmore and you have Keon White who
00:07:27should be getting better and, you know, progressing.
00:07:29So I know I kind of gave it all there and we'll get more in depth with other stuff.
00:07:33With the offense, the offensive line stinks right now.
00:07:35We get it.
00:07:36They need upgrades.
00:07:37That can happen this offseason.
00:07:38I think the offense really can't take a step forward defensively.
00:07:42Something's got to give because you can't have a run defense like this and you can't
00:07:45have one if you don't have an off defense that in the red area can actually keep the
00:07:49opponents from scoring touchdowns and just holding the field goals.
00:07:53This was exactly what they couldn't have coming out of the bye week.
00:07:56A blowout like we talked about.
00:07:58This other than in Buffalo, none of these games should have been blowouts.
00:08:01You should have been in every single one and you can see how they could have been in all
00:08:04these games.
00:08:05Right?
00:08:06If the offense helps out the defense, maybe they don't get to the point where they have
00:08:08to hold up, you know, after you're giving them a short field and all this.
00:08:13But still the defense has to give more because we saw it last season and I know it's not
00:08:16the same defense, but the quality of the losses is just so unacceptable.
00:08:22And maybe I'll look at the tape and feel a little bit differently, but I can't see myself
00:08:25coming away saying, you know what, I'm happy with this.
00:08:28The offense still needs to do some work, but you know what, again, it's the offensive line,
00:08:32the defense, it just, it's bad at almost every single level.
00:08:35And I don't know what you do.
00:08:36No, I'm with you.
00:08:37And I think let's, let's dive in offense first, then defense, we'll kind of talk about both
00:08:41sides and go through it.
00:08:42Like you said, piece by piece and kind of analyze this.
00:08:45And we can sort of twist in the job security of Mayo and the job security of the position
00:08:49coaches kind of into all of it.
00:08:51And I'm, I'm, I'm going to kind of keep, keep on Twitter here as well and kind of read
00:08:55quotes as they come in.
00:08:56And the, the quote that everyone hated for Mayo a couple of weeks ago where he said,
00:09:00well, if you take out this play, then we're pretty good.
00:09:03Sounds like he's doing that again against the run defense saying a big play really skews
00:09:06the stats.
00:09:07A big run play really skews the stats.
00:09:08Like it doesn't skew the stats when they get the yards they need whenever they need them.
00:09:13Right.
00:09:14I'll actually pull it up.
00:09:15I'll look at the efficiency.
00:09:16Cause I'm pretty sure the Cardinals, I think like the past few games, they're giving up
00:09:19some of the most yardage in terms of like success, right?
00:09:22Even though if you just look at yards per carry, it doesn't look that bad.
00:09:26Another quote that I don't even understand from dry may.
00:09:28He was asked about if there was any consideration to running Drake may on that third and one
00:09:32fourth and one, which I want to get into the play calling.
00:09:35I want to get into a Robert Kraft, Jonathan Kraft, and kind of what they were saying in
00:09:39the booth.
00:09:40We had the video.
00:09:41We'll kind of, uh, we'll as a pruder for him, dissect that for you guys as well.
00:09:43But he's asked about running Drake down there and he responds.
00:09:47You said it.
00:09:49And then was, I don't even know what that means.
00:09:52And then a follow-up is it's always my decision.
00:09:55I would say the quarterback obviously has a good pair of legs, so I don't know if that's
00:09:59him saying I would have liked to seen Drake run down there, but Alex didn't call it.
00:10:05And you're, you said it.
00:10:06I didn't like take that off my plate.
00:10:09I don't know.
00:10:10It he's got, it's the PR stuff's gotta, it's gotta go.
00:10:13He's gotta get better behind that mic, man.
00:10:15I mean, you lose your three and 11.
00:10:17You're not a good football team.
00:10:19You have to wear everything on your chest.
00:10:20And that's just, that's another, another tough, tough quote from dry Mayo fit.
00:10:24If he's trying to look man.
00:10:26And I'll even say on those, I don't ever think that Drake, if you really want to protect
00:10:30Drake may, I don't think any conversion in a lost season is important enough that it
00:10:34by whatever chance happens, Drake may takes a hit and gets hurt.
00:10:37Right?
00:10:38Because if that happens, no matter what, if Drake may keeps it on his own, re gets tackled
00:10:43the wrong way and he's out for the season.
00:10:46It doesn't matter what the explanation is.
00:10:47It does not matter.
00:10:49You are going to get flamed.
00:10:51I don't even mind not running Drake may.
00:10:53I really don't.
00:10:54You need to be able to get a yard on one.
00:10:57That's again, two chances to convert in short yardage and you can't do it.
00:11:04Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, if you need one yard on short yardage, don't
00:11:07worry.
00:11:08You'll get four or five.
00:11:09Like that's like, that's BS dude.
00:11:11That's complete BS.
00:11:12Like I don't, I do not want you running Drake may.
00:11:14I don't care.
00:11:15Everyone thinks that's like the panacea for the short yardage problems.
00:11:18Like, no, it's not important enough.
00:11:20You will have a losing season.
00:11:21This is not the playoffs where we're talking about like ride or die for your season.
00:11:25You don't need to run Drake may.
00:11:27You need to get enough push to convert in short yardage after you've just been walking
00:11:31down the field in the run game.
00:11:32That's the issue, not the play call, but also you make it even worse with some sassy remark
00:11:37because you're pissed off again.
00:11:39Just like he did with me in the last game when I asked him about the super bowl and
00:11:42he wants, or I didn't ask him about the super bowl.
00:11:44I asked him about the play call, not using the timeout.
00:11:46He brings up the super bowl.
00:11:48And now you have another one where you think, you know, I don't want to call out anybody,
00:11:52but you think the PR department is telling him to say that.
00:11:54What does that even mean?
00:11:55It's nonsense.
00:11:56It's like, dude, stop doing this.
00:11:58You can give more educated and thought out explanations rather than doing stupid shit
00:12:02like this.
00:12:03Who are you helping?
00:12:04Right under the bus.
00:12:06He's not helping anyone.
00:12:07He's just, he's, he's talking when he shouldn't be.
00:12:10And that's been the name of the game post game for Gerard Mayo throughout the press
00:12:14conferences.
00:12:15But that's, what's going to bring us to the next part.
00:12:18Let's talk about the offense.
00:12:19Let's talk about Drake May.
00:12:21You know what?
00:12:22Let's save Drake May.
00:12:23Let's stay on the, uh, the bad stuff so far, the Patriots score 13 points in this one.
00:12:28I'm going to look up the numbers.
00:12:29They go.
00:12:30Oh, for six on third down may play as well.
00:12:32Um, excuse me, he is 19 or 23 passing 14 rushing yards has the Russian touchdown at the end,
00:12:39the interception, not his fault, uh, 202 passing yards.
00:12:43Like we said, he plays well, but the offense just can't get it done.
00:12:46And I think one sort of theme that I saw here, Taylor was the first drive coming out of the
00:12:51gate.
00:12:52They moved the ball down the field and then they shoot themselves in the foot laden gets
00:12:55the holding penalty.
00:12:57Then they go conservative play, call conservative, pray, call, miss a field goal, right?
00:13:01Coming out of the second half, they go down, um, running backs are running hard.
00:13:06And then you get third and one fourth and one, two bad play calls and you don't convert
00:13:10there either.
00:13:11And it's like, you're kind of putting some drives together and then the play calling
00:13:15just kind of turns to, um, turns to crap for lack of a better term.
00:13:18And I don't know if I put, I don't know if I want to put the blame of the play calling
00:13:23all on Alex van Pelt, right?
00:13:25Obviously it's his fault, but then like I mentioned before the 10 of 10 passing at halftime,
00:13:31but you're not throwing the ball past five yards.
00:13:34Yeah.
00:13:35Try and throw the football downfield because then it obviously works down the stretch in
00:13:39the game when you put together two touchdown drives.
00:13:41But there's, there's other times where you might not even trust the offensive line enough
00:13:44to hold up for that long where you can let them throw downfield.
00:13:46So he's just like, grab the football, get it out of his hands.
00:13:50The Cardinals play aggressive type of defense.
00:13:52Jonathan Gannon knows how to, you know, call a good system against another team and play
00:13:56against a rookie quarterback and Drake may let's just get the ball out of his hands.
00:13:59And so I don't know if I want to blame Alex van Pelt there, but the play calling at times
00:14:03was not good enough and ownership didn't like it either.
00:14:07Here's the play.
00:14:08It comes across the broadcast from Robert Kraft and Jonathan Kraft.
00:14:11Take a look.
00:14:22Offensive play calling play calling is terrible.
00:14:26That's what it looks like to me, Taylor.
00:14:28I don't know if you had any other read on it, but they're clearly talking about the
00:14:30play calling.
00:14:32They're not football savants, right?
00:14:34And so in that moment, that's very important to throw out there as well.
00:14:39Everybody who's sitting on the couch is going to question the play calling like that's totally,
00:14:43but it's still, again, it's not a good look for them or not, not that it's not a good
00:14:47look for them, but it's not a good look that this is where we are three and 11.
00:14:51There's a shot of the owner's box again, and they look distraught and they look ready to
00:14:54kind of, I don't know, try and make changes at play calling.
00:14:57So long story short, Taylor, your thoughts on sort of where the play calling is at versus
00:15:04like Alex van Pelt, his job security and kind of where this whole thing goes.
00:15:08And the fact that the crafts are pissed seemingly about the play on again, man, I really don't
00:15:13care in terms of like, in terms of whether they're right or wrong.
00:15:18Like let's be real.
00:15:19It doesn't matter.
00:15:20What does matter is that from their perspective, at least in that moment, they thought that
00:15:24the offense was the issue.
00:15:26I think I'll probably feel differently when you think of the end of the game, when you're
00:15:29just trading touchdowns left and right, because the defense can't stop it in Drake may gets
00:15:33unlocked.
00:15:34Once you start moving with some tempo and you kind of give the quarterback more control,
00:15:37which I would love to see, by the way, I would love some kind of uptempo attack that really
00:15:41just mitigates the offensive line.
00:15:43I don't know.
00:15:44I'm going to ask this week if I can.
00:15:45I don't know if that's asking too much, but whatever.
00:15:48I think what it tells you is that they're just, they're not happy and they want some
00:15:51type of change.
00:15:52Now I'm sure that's obvious, right?
00:15:54That's why I don't really want to drag this out.
00:15:56We all know they're not happy, but again, this just goes to what we were saying where
00:15:59when you're losing an embarrassing fashion, it's one thing when you can say, Hey, we were
00:16:02in all these one score games.
00:16:03That's what they've been leaning on.
00:16:04Right?
00:16:05They talk about, Hey, so many one score games.
00:16:06You were so close.
00:16:07All right.
00:16:08Now what?
00:16:09Now, what do you have to say?
00:16:10And now when you tell ownership, can't really tell them anything, you're going to tell them,
00:16:13Oh, the offensive line is bad.
00:16:14We need to get better.
00:16:15Okay.
00:16:16But you former co-defensive coordinator, why is our defense terrible?
00:16:20And again, you can say the absence is on defense and there are times where, yes, that does
00:16:24hold up.
00:16:26But it feels like even the players that you're supposed to be leading on outside of the cornerback
00:16:29room aren't doing what you're supposed to do either.
00:16:32And that's where I go, okay, now I really don't know what I can say for the coaching.
00:16:36I may not know what exactly is wrong, but something is very wrong when your veterans
00:16:40are the ones who are disappointing week in and week out.
00:16:43And the one thing that changed between last year and this year on the defense side of
00:16:47the football with guys like Kyle Duggar, like Christian Barmore, uh, guys like that.
00:16:51Now, granted, I want to give Christian Barmore the benefit of the doubt he's gone through
00:16:54hell and back this year.
00:16:55And so I don't want to put a ton on his plate, but you know, even I got to be clear what
00:16:58I said earlier, I only met like with him back in the lineup.
00:17:02It's surprising how bad they've been overall, not putting it on him.
00:17:05Want to make that very, very clear, correct.
00:17:06But it's a guy who, and I think Doug Codd asked it this week down in Foxborough to draw
00:17:10where you want to give him a little bit of a leash, but at what point do you need to
00:17:16sort of hold Christian Barmore accountable to get back to the type of player he was last
00:17:21year?
00:17:22I'm not going to shut this down right now.
00:17:24I have no expectations.
00:17:25I do too.
00:17:27I'm with you.
00:17:28I, I, I forget what Mayo's answer even was, but he's sort of in that he's in the group
00:17:32of guys.
00:17:33And now, uh, Jelani Tavai, not great today.
00:17:35There was a play where James Connor, he got thrown out on an out route and he doesn't
00:17:39break down.
00:17:40He loses his legs.
00:17:41Kyle Duggar.
00:17:42Same thing on that long play to Greg Dort from Greg Dorch.
00:17:44Now we're talking about the defense again.
00:17:45We're all over the one word.
00:17:46And I'm like, that's, it looks like that's his ankle where I can understand he can't
00:17:50break down, but it's not an excuse.
00:17:53Because the coaches keep telling us if he's out there, he's healthy.
00:17:57That's not true because Marty Mop was a healthy scratch and I know he hasn't been good, but
00:18:01you're talking about the young guys getting experience.
00:18:03If that's the case and you have a veteran who's a liability when he's on the field,
00:18:08how do you justify playing him and not the young guy?
00:18:11Right.
00:18:12I know it's, it's messed up.
00:18:16We're all over the place, but I want to, uh, I want to pull it back to the offense for
00:18:19a second.
00:18:20And I, I put Jalen Polk on the lower third and we're not going to do the John Zanis special
00:18:25with the Jalen Paul conversation.
00:18:26Now he did have a little bit of an uptick.
00:18:28I don't even remember what it was.
00:18:30I don't remember either, but it's on the box score.
00:18:32I just looked too.
00:18:33Cause I was kind of confused, but he, he does nothing once again, has a little bit of an
00:18:36uptick, uh, in, um, what's the word I'm looking for.
00:18:41He's on the field a little bit more.
00:18:42They're, they're putting them in, uh, give them the opportunities, but wide receiver
00:18:46in general at the first half, your league receiver was Marcus Jones and they can't get
00:18:52the balls to the receivers.
00:18:54Like at all.
00:18:55Kendrick Bourne comes on down the stretch, obviously the nice play from Drake may the,
00:18:59the play that bothers me so much.
00:19:01And this is where I want to loop loop coaching back in.
00:19:03And you already mentioned Tyler Hughes, the interception to Keyshawn booty, it is similar
00:19:09to, and now the last one was Drake's fault, but there have been so many miscommunications
00:19:13in zone coverage.
00:19:14There was one on the same route.
00:19:16I think last week where he had to sit in the middle and then it was off memory through
00:19:19behind him.
00:19:20Yeah.
00:19:21Sit down, sit down, read the defense.
00:19:24I don't want to say it's not that hard, but these are the types of things that's like,
00:19:27do you work on this?
00:19:28Make some professionals.
00:19:29Seriously.
00:19:30Yeah.
00:19:31In that.
00:19:32Yeah.
00:19:33Do you work on this stuff in practice?
00:19:34Like those are the types of things that you need to work on chemistry day in, day out.
00:19:37If it's man run through, if it's zone, sit down, find these spots in the zone.
00:19:41But you look at Travis Kelsey and, uh, and Patrick, my homes and you look at Julian Edelman
00:19:46and Tom Brady and yes, I'm, I'm comparing them to all time grades, but that's what made
00:19:49these guys unstoppable is it.
00:19:53Sometimes it looks like they're not even covering the best players in football and they are,
00:19:56but they're just so good at reading coverage to be able to sit down and be on the same
00:19:59page and find these types of things.
00:20:00And two weeks in a row.
00:20:01Now, two of them turn into interceptions and a couple of them pop Douglas down the seam
00:20:05a couple of weeks ago, that one turned into an interception.
00:20:07Like Drake Maystone and interception six straight games.
00:20:11Not a lot of them are his fault.
00:20:12The R the wide receiver room needs to be better.
00:20:16And Keisha booty I've liked this season, but that turnover, that interception was all on
00:20:20him in my opinion.
00:20:21I tweeted that I want to watch the end zone angle too.
00:20:23I want to see it kind of develop a little more easy, but it's like, dude, you're Mr.
00:20:26I don't drop anything.
00:20:27And I think you lead the team and drop.
00:20:30Exactly.
00:20:31So thoughts on the receivers thoughts on that Jalen poke, no yards, no cut, no catches.
00:20:36Pop Douglas has 11 yards on three catches.
00:20:38He has the receiving touchdown, which great play by Drake May Drake Mays, the stud we'll
00:20:42get into him later, but let's get out all, all the bad stuff first.
00:20:45Your thoughts on the receiver room and kind of where things are out there.
00:20:48Yeah.
00:20:49One thing I kind of am drawing something back, but one thing about play calling is you ever
00:20:52notice that we don't question Van Pelt's play calling when the line isn't a problem.
00:20:57And every time that it comes into question, it's either obviously in some key moments
00:21:00where they could definitely get better, but also it's typically when the offensive line
00:21:03is a total disaster.
00:21:05Let's keep that in mind.
00:21:06I am not going other than like the pitch from shotgun right on the fourth and one, I didn't
00:21:10like that play call.
00:21:11I thought that was super risky.
00:21:12So that position of like, I thought that I understood if like, maybe they have the numbers
00:21:17in the box.
00:21:18I'll look it up and see.
00:21:19Sure.
00:21:20Yeah.
00:21:21It was fine, but he still had to make somebody miss and then fight to get the yardage.
00:21:23So like those kinds of situations, I'm like, yeah, you can definitely question the play.
00:21:26The other reason I didn't mind it was because it worked.
00:21:28I'm like, okay.
00:21:29It worked.
00:21:30If it throw it out, we use it.
00:21:31It worked great.
00:21:32Go ahead.
00:21:33Sorry.
00:21:35Yeah.
00:21:36So like there were times in those specific moments, I'm like, yes, but for the most part,
00:21:38I don't like to critique play calling because there's so much more that goes into it a lot
00:21:42of the times.
00:21:43And I think we've realized, but for the most part, I don't really have an issue right now,
00:21:46at least having just watched the game because the offensive line was so bad and kept putting
00:21:50them in bad positions.
00:21:51Now the receivers, Kendrick Bourne, you know, had that one catch towards the end.
00:21:55That was really awesome to see you like Keisha or he and Mario Douglas actually having some
00:22:00chemistry off schedule.
00:22:02A lot of that was Drake May.
00:22:03I mean, it's hard to really talk about the receivers other than Keisha on booty.
00:22:07I was very disappointing.
00:22:08Yeah.
00:22:09Mario Douglas didn't really get anything like that's pretty much what it is.
00:22:12The tight ends did what they had to do when they were targeted, but it's not a lot to
00:22:15talk about.
00:22:16I guess probably the biggest thing from the receivers is that Antonio Gibson still gets
00:22:19so few targets and it feels like there's so little creativity that goes into getting him
00:22:23involved as a receiver.
00:22:25That's probably the most annoying thing I would say overall.
00:22:27Um, every time he touches the football lately, it's awesome.
00:22:31He plays really well.
00:22:32He's a, he's a good player.
00:22:33So yeah, that's, I'm with you there.
00:22:35I'm looking at the reaction from social and sort of press conference stuff.
00:22:39Drake Bay was also asked about sneaking the ball at one point.
00:22:42He said I was a pretty good quarterback sneaker in college.
00:22:44I'm a big dude.
00:22:45I'm six five.
00:22:46I should be able to get a yard.
00:22:49I agree.
00:22:50Now I'm, I'm, I guess I understand not running him to, to keep him healthy, what have you,
00:22:55but okay.
00:22:56Then put your goalie reset in the game.
00:22:57He's a pretty good QB sneaker.
00:22:58Like he should be ready for something like that.
00:23:00You need to be able to utilize the quarterback sneak.
00:23:04You can't just say no, because it's, because it's Drake may, and you were scared that our
00:23:0822 year old might bust up an ankle or something like you need to be able to use something
00:23:11like that.
00:23:12So for him to say this too, for Gerard to even be like, yeah, you said it, not like
00:23:17clearly there's a disconnect there on why we're not running Drake may down when you
00:23:22need short yardage.
00:23:23And he's such a good player.
00:23:24Like I think you should have done it.
00:23:27I'm sorry.
00:23:28Yeah.
00:23:29I think you have a bigger problem is that you could not get a yard even where you couldn't
00:23:34get a yard two times in a row.
00:23:36I also wonder if third and one, if you know, you're going to go for it on fourth and one
00:23:40drop back to pass or like last week where you were the last game where you had the naked
00:23:45bootleg and you had the option to use Drake, like those, I like, you know, those make more
00:23:50sense because you can protect yourself a lot easier versus, you know, on, you know, some
00:23:54kind of zone read where maybe it's a little more complicated and, you know, leverage would
00:23:58have you, but those kinds of places I like move the pocket.
00:24:01Then you have the thread of his legs and even like a zone read where you really actually
00:24:04not zone read.
00:24:05If you don't intend to actually keep it, there's not a whole lot of point in running it because
00:24:09they're not going to respect it.
00:24:10But again, man, I, I, my, your, the end all be all should not be whether or not Drake
00:24:15may runs a zone read and short yardage.
00:24:17It should be why in the world is it so bad that you can't just convert it on your own.
00:24:23I like the aggressiveness.
00:24:24I liked that.
00:24:25They actually went for it on fourth downs this week.
00:24:27That was awesome.
00:24:28They get it one time.
00:24:29They don't the other.
00:24:30Also way more alarming that you went over six on third down two for three in the red
00:24:34zone.
00:24:35You know, obviously this team can't just be normal.
00:24:37It's always gotta be, you move the ball well and then you kind of struggled actually punched
00:24:41in the red zone.
00:24:42I actually looked at the EPA.
00:24:43Apparently their success rate was like pretty much on par or it was like over 45% which
00:24:47isn't terrible.
00:24:48Um, but still again, it's just at the worst time to keep shooting yourself in the foot
00:24:52as an offense.
00:24:53And then, you know, I, I feel like we're talking in a circle now, but also defense doesn't
00:24:57do its job late in the game.
00:24:59And when there was like a sliver of hope that maybe you could turn this into something,
00:25:02they just let the offense walk out.
00:25:03A hundred percent.
00:25:04All right.
00:25:05Let's talk about two good things on the offense.
00:25:06You tweeted about it.
00:25:07We'll talk about both of them right now before we split for some ad breaks and then get onto
00:25:11the defense here.
00:25:12First and foremost, the run game was pretty good.
00:25:14Mondrian over five yards to carry 69 yards on the ground, 13 carries.
00:25:18They ran hard.
00:25:20They got the ball back a few times and ran hard both times to kind of set them up in
00:25:24good position to actually score a while.
00:25:26The bills lions game.
00:25:27I was looking for stats in the past game.
00:25:29It's 48, 42 bills.
00:25:31That's wild.
00:25:32No defense in that game.
00:25:33But anyway, Mondrian goes five, five yards of pop Antonio Gibson, seven yards, 33 carries.
00:25:41Not bad on the ground, but he, as a receiver, two receptions, 31 yards, both those guys
00:25:46really solid.
00:25:47I thought a good bounce back game for a Mondrian after you sort of started to wonder.
00:25:53Is the offensive line a detriment to him and not helping him sort of be the running back
00:25:57you want him to be?
00:25:58But I thought he put those to bed today.
00:26:01So I thought those guys were good on the ground.
00:26:03Yeah.
00:26:04I like the running back.
00:26:05So the reminder is Stevenson.
00:26:06I think he had like two or three explosive runs.
00:26:07It was the most he's had in a long time.
00:26:09Antonio Gibson showed the tackle breaking ability.
00:26:11Alex Van Pelt mentioned earlier this week that they're actually really similar, that
00:26:14they're both big, they're both fast.
00:26:16I like what I saw from these guys.
00:26:18No fumbles from them, although there was one fumble and then recovered it.
00:26:22Oh, pop.
00:26:23That was the one thing from the receivers.
00:26:25Another good one from Kendrick Bourne.
00:26:26The awareness to catch it when pop.
00:26:27Oh yeah.
00:26:28That was insane.
00:26:29Yeah.
00:26:30That was the third fumble they've had in two weeks.
00:26:32They've recovered all of them.
00:26:33But another reason that the team has emphasized, you know, you need to be able to protect the
00:26:37football because they've been flirting with disaster a lot recently.
00:26:41But I liked what I saw from the running backs.
00:26:42I thought they did what they had to do.
00:26:43Michael hasty had that with one return, didn't get anything out of that.
00:26:46I just wanted to include him and acknowledge that he exists.
00:26:48I think Antonio Gibson had like one fine return or whatever, but yeah, toting the rock.
00:26:52I thought they both looked good.
00:26:54It was just, you know, they couldn't run in the situations they needed to the most.
00:26:57And that was really disappointing.
00:26:58Yeah, definitely disappointing.
00:26:59And you wonder when you look at it, you'll look at it obviously on the film and if it's
00:27:03the backs, if they're not reading it right up up front or if it's the guys up front that
00:27:07aren't letting it happen.
00:27:08But you're right.
00:27:09They could not get those yards when they needed it at all.
00:27:11All right.
00:27:12Let's let's talk about our friend Drake May because he is the one and I find it hard to
00:27:16sit here and gush over what Drake May did today because of how everything else was so
00:27:20bad.
00:27:21But he was really solid, especially down the stretch of this game.
00:27:24But actually, first quote from K.
00:27:26Sean Booty talking about in the locker room after the game, we knew they were going to
00:27:31play man the whole game.
00:27:33But I feel like it's disrespectful when they go man first quarter, you know.
00:27:37So I feel like we need to be better at attacking that instead of being shy about it when that's
00:27:41a second time.
00:27:42He's basically critiqued Van Pelt's play going.
00:27:45Yeah.
00:27:46So I guess that's one thing we'll look into when we dive into the film.
00:27:49Yeah, it is not just the crafts.
00:27:51It is also K.
00:27:52Sean Booty that's not happy with Alex Van Pelt's play and Gerard Mayo, actually, because
00:27:55he said that he wished that Drake May ran it down on the line.
00:27:58But anyway, Drake May, 19 of 23, 200 yards through the air, the 14 yards on the ground,
00:28:04passing touchdown to pop the rushing touchdown.
00:28:06Taylor, they have a quarterback and that's about it.
00:28:11They have a quarterback and they have a number one corner and everything else is is I don't
00:28:16care.
00:28:17I don't know.
00:28:18Anything else can go for me.
00:28:19But I think when you see the types of plays that Drake makes the drop in the bucket to
00:28:23Kendrick Bourne, the he's scrambling left and flips one backside to pop for a touchdown
00:28:29like those are plays that I'm going to say it.
00:28:32They're like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen ask.
00:28:35And he's doing it as a rookie where he has such a great feel for the field.
00:28:39He has such a great feel for the game so early.
00:28:42And I think it's awesome to see.
00:28:43And I think that's why this whatever decision they make or don't make, it's so important
00:28:50because you can't let this type of talent go.
00:28:53He's really, really good.
00:28:54He and then he goes in for the Russian touchdown as well at the end, which I just it's an added
00:28:58plus that he can use his legs.
00:28:59And we just talked about him using his legs all along.
00:29:01But a really good game from Drake may definitely down the stretch.
00:29:06And it makes, like I said, it makes it very important for what you do on the coach.
00:29:10He did have some uncharacteristic misses for sure.
00:29:13I think that's kind of fair to point out.
00:29:14Like there was the one on the run where booty was wide open.
00:29:17There was one that was just acknowledging those because other than that, he was fine.
00:29:21Like he took what the defense gave him.
00:29:23That was another theme early on in the game.
00:29:25He did kind of force one deep to booty, but really wasn't the worst thing in the world.
00:29:29That's one of those where I'm like, just, oh my God, if he had Ted, if he had Ted, these
00:29:33would go so, so differently, but alas, you know, but other than that, yeah, I liked what
00:29:37I saw.
00:29:38And then late from him, you saw once they really got moving in the offensive line, wasn't
00:29:41a factor.
00:29:42The dude was absolute money.
00:29:43So at least you got to see the flashes of Drake may towards the end, because it was
00:29:47just so ugly for most of that game.
00:29:49Because again, like they were moving the ball at times and then you just kept getting them
00:29:53behind the eight ball because the offensive line gaps, but yeah, Drake may still looks
00:29:57awesome.
00:29:59He's clearly, he clearly is the future, but this game just emphasized again, you need
00:30:02to get not just talent, but like professionals around him because it doesn't even feel like
00:30:07it's just bad players.
00:30:09It just feels sloppy.
00:30:11And I think a lot of that is just the talent you have.
00:30:13You have a lot of young guys.
00:30:14You have a lot of guys who again are overmatched every single week where the talent is a factor
00:30:18and then the penalties start to stack up.
00:30:20So just every week I got a T I teeter more towards like, oh, T Higgins might not get
00:30:25free agency.
00:30:26You got to get Ted.
00:30:27I'm like, oh my God.
00:30:28Yeah.
00:30:29It may be, maybe you can't afford to not get Kelvin banks if you can afford it.
00:30:33Yeah, man.
00:30:34That's the truth.
00:30:35May is the truth.
00:30:36That's in my notes here too.
00:30:38As we wrap up the offense here that we've talked about, you know, if a dairy low playing
00:30:42okay enough to be a stop gap and maybe he can afford you to look at other things for
00:30:47the future and maybe get a developmental left tap developmental left tackle.
00:30:51But I wonder now if a line becomes the priority once again, after a day like today, where
00:30:56you know, may is not getting killed, but they can't call an offense because they're too
00:30:59worried about what's in front of them.
00:31:00And then they get so far and then they get backed up because of penalties and bad mistakes.
00:31:04And so I don't know, we'll see how they end up prioritizing it.
00:31:08Frankly, we'll see if they end up having a whole new front office and coaching staff
00:31:11at this point.
00:31:12Again, today was, today was bad.
00:31:13This, this feels like the rock bottom to me for this season, where there's so many, we
00:31:18come on and admittedly, the two of us have a lot of yeah, butts with Mayo and the staff,
00:31:25right?
00:31:26Because it's, you know, what they were handed was so bad.
00:31:28And you know, it's the first season and you want to give these guys time to build something.
00:31:33But again, today felt like almost a no excuses.
00:31:36This had to be a closer game where you actually fought and your 11 game or your shit 1114
00:31:44games into a season, you need to be able to play a lot more fundamentally sound football.
00:31:49And they're just not doing it.
00:31:50And it's, it's really bad.
00:31:51And so that's kind of where we're at Patriots 14 point underdogs next week at Buffalo.
00:31:55So we'll see if they can cover that.
00:31:58We're going to get into the defense, talk about all of their struggles on that side
00:32:02of the football.
00:32:03Then we'll continue to talk about the conversation about Gerard Mayo, his job security and things
00:32:08of that nature.
00:32:09But first a word from both of our friends.
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00:32:37If you guys were here for Patriots pregame on the channel, we picked a lineup with pop
00:32:42to have more than three and a half receptions.
00:32:44He only had three.
00:32:45We also picked James Connors longest run to be less than 15 and a half yards and he broke
00:32:51one almost immediately.
00:32:53So we're going to have to reconsider, change our picks and kind of go from there after
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00:32:58But Sunday night football lineup is out on my Twitter, so go over there, check it out
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00:34:45Taylor, I'm not even gonna make you say it because this was such a bad game.
00:34:48So what time is it?
00:34:49Game time.
00:34:50It's also time to talk about the Patriots and their defense.
00:34:54And I think we should start with the good this time.
00:34:58Christian Gonzalez, that guy's a freaking stud.
00:35:01He had Marvin Harrison in hell all game, one catch, 23 yards, a couple of pass breakups,
00:35:06two of them, two of them in the end zone or one of them in the end zone and one of
00:35:09them close to the end zone.
00:35:11Something like that.
00:35:12Yeah.
00:35:13One of them is in the end zone.
00:35:14It was incredible because Marvin Harrison had a beat.
00:35:15Gonzo stuck his hand in late and made the play.
00:35:17Didn't give up.
00:35:18Awesome stuff from number zero.
00:35:21They have one really good guy on offense and one really good guy on defense.
00:35:24That guy's Christian Gonzalez.
00:35:25What did you make of Gonzo and what did you make of the entire secondary?
00:35:28Because you said that that was kind of the only thing that you thought was a positive
00:35:31on the defensive side.
00:35:32Yeah.
00:35:33Positive.
00:35:34Just because you didn't really see the cornerbacks get burned very often.
00:35:37I thought this was a pretty quiet game for them.
00:35:38John Jones almost capitalized on a horrendous Tyler Murray decision, but then another terrible
00:35:43decision from the officials.
00:35:45You end up having Anthony Jennings getting flagged for hitting Tyler Murray in the helmet.
00:35:49Even though we were trying to not hit him in the head, but also the league is going
00:35:53to throw a flag anytime that happens.
00:35:55It's not fair, but you know, it's how the league is run.
00:35:57It is what it is, but it's so funny that the Cardinals had success out of the gate with
00:36:02Christian Gonzalez picking him off early in the game, got an explosive game.
00:36:07And then, although I think they did run Mesh a bunch of other times, and I think Gonzo
00:36:09adjusted well, which does have something to do with it, but it's hilarious that every
00:36:12other time they threw to Marvin Harrison Jr. with Christian Gonzalez in coverage, it was
00:36:16just when he was running in a straight line and it was just Gonzo being like, okay, I'll
00:36:21just be a great athlete who never makes and just force these pass breakups.
00:36:25So yeah, that was a super weird decision by them.
00:36:28But yeah, Gonzo's a stud.
00:36:29We already knew that.
00:36:30The pick was one of the only times actually we've seen, because teams have used rub routes
00:36:34not so much recently, but earlier in the season and we broke it down, they kept trying to
00:36:38like put receivers in motion and have interference to slow him down.
00:36:41He did a really good job of avoiding it for the most part and still making those tackles.
00:36:48That was one of the only times you really saw him actually end up a step behind because
00:36:52Trey McBride said a really good pick, didn't make contact, it wasn't a penalty.
00:36:56But other than that, yeah, Gonzo's still a stud.
00:36:58It looked like the corners did their job.
00:37:01It's just the spine of this defense continues to be so, so disappointing.
00:37:06And now it's even trickling down Anthony Jennings, who even on the play where he forced a fumble,
00:37:10he also ended up having the run bounce on him, which happened a few times.
00:37:14He gave up the edge against Kyler Murray once.
00:37:16Even the guys who you're supposed to rely on, who never make mistakes, are making mistakes
00:37:20almost on a weekly basis because Jennings makes plays, but also he's getting exploited
00:37:25more than you're used to.
00:37:26So it's just a lot of bad for the Patriots defense outside of the cornerback room.
00:37:31Yeah.
00:37:32I want to talk about Anthony Jennings, excuse me, a little bit here just because that roughing
00:37:36was BS.
00:37:37And I'm normally somebody who is like, everyone who yells about the refs all the time in a
00:37:42situation similar to that, they're like, it's not roughing.
00:37:45I'm like, yeah, but that's the rules.
00:37:47You can't touch his head.
00:37:48Stop touching the guy's head.
00:37:50It's the quarterback.
00:37:51That's what they're going to call it.
00:37:52And it's that specific play when it's tough because you need to, those need to be like
00:37:58subjective in my opinion of her referees, where if it's Josh Allen, if it's Kyler Murray,
00:38:02if it's Patrick Mahomes, if he, but like guys who really make plays with their legs like
00:38:07that as a defender, you need to be able to defend them as a runner and a passer at the
00:38:12same time.
00:38:13And so when Kyler Murray is running out the middle like that and kind of makes a decision
00:38:16to throw it instead of run, and you mentioned it, Jennings is trying to get out of the way.
00:38:20He just did it.
00:38:22It's not like he went helmet to helmet crown to his head.
00:38:23It was like pretty much accidental and there, there needs to be a line there.
00:38:28So I thought that was nonsense.
00:38:30But again, those are the rules.
00:38:31And sometimes you just got to live with the referees and you can't blame the referees.
00:38:35But on the Jonah Williams touchdown, I thought that was, that was a great play by Jennings
00:38:40to actually force the fumble.
00:38:41You mentioned he did get overrun and then that's the reason he had that that opportunity
00:38:46to go.
00:38:47Yeah.
00:38:48I mean, I didn't mean to fumble, but the butterfly effect of Jonah Williams, if you
00:38:52signed him, he wouldn't have scored.
00:38:53I obviously, as soon as that happened, I was like, Mike is going to be so goddamn annoying
00:38:58about this, obviously, obviously joking.
00:39:02As far as the fact that that didn't happen, that's just me being, being a smart ass.
00:39:06But with, I guess just those types of plays.
00:39:11And I hear it on social media towards myself where I call it bad luck.
00:39:17And I also called the Keyshawn Booty and interception bad luck.
00:39:20But when you're not a good football team, does it, does bad luck come towards you more?
00:39:26Do you get what I'm saying?
00:39:27Like it's almost you, it's bad luck because you need every break.
00:39:31And then those things that turn into bad luck, it's bad luck because it adds up because you
00:39:35can't make the big plays that turn those small moments into, okay, we overcame it because
00:39:41you don't make plays.
00:39:43It's what it comes down to, it's through bad luck.
00:39:45You have bad teams, luck goes against them a whole lot.
00:39:48That's why you end up bad.
00:39:50That's why your record sucks year in and year out because you're not good enough to, you're
00:39:56not good enough to not need luck to win these games.
00:39:59A hundred percent.
00:40:00I like that's the good way to put it.
00:40:02And a shout out D in the chat for the, for the super chat.
00:40:06We appreciate you.
00:40:07And D says we can not bring Covington back.
00:40:10No excuses.
00:40:11I'm fine with it.
00:40:12I'm fine with it.
00:40:13Cause I don't know what he brings.
00:40:14I don't know what he brings to the defense.
00:40:15Mayo.
00:40:16I've said it.
00:40:17I said it.
00:40:18Um, when we were talking about what we wanted to see, I want to see what edge you give this
00:40:21team.
00:40:22Yeah.
00:40:23We want to see in the resilience was one of those things.
00:40:24Now that's slipping away.
00:40:26The Colts game had started slipping away and you know, more than it had before where the
00:40:29other embarrassing losses, they always tended to bounce back from with a win.
00:40:33Then you lose.
00:40:34And it's like, all right, you haven't told the buy.
00:40:35Maybe they're just tired and gas mentally.
00:40:37It's been a long season, you know, you're losing.
00:40:40But now it's another embarrassing loss.
00:40:43Now, dude, I have, yeah, I know it's your first season, but Dan Campbell also had his
00:40:47team more competitive towards the stretch.
00:40:49Like that's what you need to show.
00:40:52You can always point to the other examples of the head coaches that failed, but now we're
00:40:55getting to the stretch where there's no excuse making.
00:40:57There's not a whole lot.
00:40:58I can pull out to be like, Hey, we're not there yet.
00:41:02I gave him this time.
00:41:03Now my dude, you are losing time and you are doing everything that I have said myself that
00:41:08you cannot do.
00:41:09And I, as a professional have to hold myself to a standard and I can, you know, I can adjust
00:41:13to the new information.
00:41:15People may not like it, but I'm only ever trying to be fair.
00:41:17This is where the rubber meets the road.
00:41:19And I'm like, everything that I asked you to do, you have not done.
00:41:22And I have no way of being able to, you know, come up with a reason for explaining why playing
00:41:26devil's advocate, just to kind of rationalize it, especially when you have these dumb comments
00:41:32every week in press conferences that make your job so much harder.
00:41:36Can you imagine if we never had to question why, uh, Gerard Mayo was saying something
00:41:41in a press conference, whether we've agreed with it or not, anytime he has become the
00:41:45storyline that's on the radio or that we see on Twitter and it's on everybody's websites.
00:41:51Imagine if we didn't have to talk about that and it was just the game, it would still not
00:41:54be great, but it would be a whole other section of controversy that he keeps stirring up that
00:41:58ends up making national headlines that he wouldn't have to do when he's been doing it
00:42:01since day one with the whole thing with the orange juice, when he makes the comments spills
00:42:04on himself.
00:42:06If that's the only thing that ever happens.
00:42:07Yeah.
00:42:08People are exaggerating and they're just, you know, kind of looking for it, but it's
00:42:11now dude, it's a theme.
00:42:13It's everything early on it's it's now it's a running theme in the biggest moments.
00:42:20I don't know what to say anymore.
00:42:21I don't know what to say.
00:42:22I think this is sort of where we not close out the show cause we'll go on a little more
00:42:27about this topic, but diving into the fact is Mayo really in trouble.
00:42:32And I like how you mentioned the orange juice thing.
00:42:34And I remember our colleague, Andrew Callahan wrote the orange juice column that day in
00:42:39the Herald.
00:42:40And we were like, maybe a little premature, like you said, because of that, but now it's
00:42:45turning into that.
00:42:46It's, it's never changed.
00:42:48It's never taken the one 80 that we wanted it to.
00:42:51And I also liked that you mentioned the, uh, adapting the new information and seeing that.
00:42:57Okay.
00:42:58But we need to see more now and let's see more.
00:43:00And it's coming to a point where it's just not, and it's, uh, man, Taylor, it's, it's
00:43:05frustrating to just kind of watch it.
00:43:08And like, I know that you had tweeted it, um, a couple of weeks ago and going into this
00:43:13sort of stretch where it's like, this is where you need to see what he brings.
00:43:18And our, our, our thought I think was more so like, okay, he brings players coach ish,
00:43:27but understands the game.
00:43:28And so he can help them appropriately prepare and get somewhat of an edge because he knows
00:43:34how to get them prepared.
00:43:35And it's like, that's not even happening linebacker.
00:43:38He was a co-defensive coordinator, not the guy, but like you could see at least in his
00:43:41resume where he has, he should be able to see the game through obviously not to the
00:43:46same degree, but be able to see it somewhat through Belichick size.
00:43:49Cause you were a linebacker for him.
00:43:51You changed the plays, you ran the defense, then you ran it as a coach.
00:43:55It should have been, obviously you're not Belichick, but you should be able to at least
00:43:58the situational football and the things that he emphasized, those should be the areas of
00:44:02strength, but it's like, well, those aren't, and you don't bring anything else.
00:44:06So where, why are you here?
00:44:08Like, what are you doing here?
00:44:10What do you do here?
00:44:13I love it.
00:44:14Not that I love it.
00:44:15I don't mean it like that, but it's, that's the question now, what do you bring?
00:44:20And right now it doesn't seem like he brings anything.
00:44:23There's no, what's the upside?
00:44:26Like the only upside I can think of right now to keep them it's continuity and not plumbing
00:44:31it up again and not putting the team through a whole nother, another kind of rebuild here
00:44:35where it's like, oh, well we tried it and didn't work.
00:44:37So let's try it again.
00:44:38And you try it at work.
00:44:39Let's try it again.
00:44:40Like those are what bad teams do, but right now you're a bad football team.
00:44:45So you are, which record says you are.
00:44:47He pulled out the tuna line because he's sometimes he follows the script and sometimes he doesn't.
00:44:51I don't.
00:44:52I don't know.
00:44:53It's, it's not good.
00:44:54And I do wonder if this, if this is the kite, if these are the type of the type of losses
00:45:00that make the crafts instead of measuring nine times and cutting once they, they do
00:45:05that, but they do it in rapid succession and rapid fire here.
00:45:08And we need to be honest.
00:45:09It's not like, I think they wanted to be patient because they are businessmen.
00:45:13I think they understand because they've seen what patients can do.
00:45:16Sometimes you just need to let a guy struggle.
00:45:19But this is like one of the worst case scenarios where it does look really bad and all the
00:45:25promises that were made aren't being followed through.
00:45:29And they're not on a long time span.
00:45:31Like it's one thing if he shows growth and you're thinking maybe you turn this around
00:45:34in three to four years, but now you're looking at three to four years and saying, are we
00:45:39just stabilized by then?
00:45:42Like because it doesn't feel like there's been a whole lot of stepping forward.
00:45:45The offense there was, and you know, but then that's Alex Van Pelt.
00:45:49That's not really Gerard Mayo's domain.
00:45:50I'm sure he gives his input, but he's fricking.
00:45:52It sounds like he's throwing his guy under the bus and he's been one of the few bright
00:45:55spots for the team.
00:45:56So now we have this disconnect where it's, I, I, I think, yeah, they may have to make
00:46:02a move.
00:46:03If this continues, Buffalo just blew out the lions.
00:46:05What just happened?
00:46:06I'm reading Twitter.
00:46:09It's so good.
00:46:10Andrew Callahan tweeted, you know, it's Andrew tweeted, I've been writing about Mayo's various
00:46:14press conference gaps since the off season.
00:46:16I still can't believe he said this.
00:46:19And, uh, burned from Pat's pulpit response.
00:46:21It goes, well, if you take out that one quote though, burn is always, you gotta laugh.
00:46:30You gotta laugh.
00:46:31Oh boy.
00:46:32Oh yeah.
00:46:33It's a, it's a nightmare.
00:46:36I don't know what he brings Taylor.
00:46:37I'm, I'm, I'm on that side.
00:46:39I understand being a former coach, I understand being able to bring that side of things aspect
00:46:47to it and maybe get players to play for you, but they're not playing for you.
00:46:51They're not playing good football right now.
00:46:53Like if I'm a free agent, why do I want to come to the Patriots to play for Gerard Mayo?
00:46:57Right?
00:46:58Don't let's, let's take another super chat.
00:47:02Nelson.
00:47:03We appreciate you have five bucks here.
00:47:04Do you guys feel van Pelt has lost the wide receiver room because of the play calling?
00:47:08No, I, this is the face is not because of the question it's because the receiver room
00:47:11room has absolutely no place to, you know, be criticizing Alex van Pelt openly.
00:47:17If you feel like could he have been more aggressive?
00:47:20Maybe I'll go through the tape and I'll try to see what their man beaters were and what
00:47:23they did.
00:47:25I'm not saying the guy's perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
00:47:27I think what he's kind of writing right now is the fact that he developed Drake may very
00:47:30well and has put an offense around him that is functional.
00:47:34It's not super creative, but that's also not what you thought you were getting.
00:47:38And the offensive line has just made it even harder.
00:47:40I think to really call the kind of game that he probably wants to play, but the wide receivers
00:47:44dude, Keishon booty has not proven that he deserves to be a starter next season or someone
00:47:49they're not looking to replace DeMario Douglas, as much as I like him, it just hasn't been
00:47:53consistent enough.
00:47:54And I'm sure the offensive line has something to do with it, but I don't see him as not
00:47:57being replaceable.
00:47:58The only guy on this roster right now that I would like to see continue to start is Kendrick
00:48:02Ford.
00:48:03Cause I feel like he is starting to actually make plays on a weekly basis.
00:48:06He's winning in different ways.
00:48:08And I'd like to see how their relationship continues to flourish, but like, I Jalen poke
00:48:12has not shown you anything, obviously not nothing from Jayvon Baker, nothing from Keishon
00:48:16booty.
00:48:17Like, I'm sorry.
00:48:18Yeah.
00:48:19These guys, maybe they can grow and get better or whatever, but you're all replaceable.
00:48:24They have no place to lose.
00:48:27Like they have no place to be like, Oh, what is this guy doing?
00:48:30Like, no, you need to get open.
00:48:31You need to sit down in zones.
00:48:32You need to catch the football when you have to catch the football.
00:48:35And then we'll scheme things up for you.
00:48:37Do what I, it's one thing if they're, they're doing what he tells them and it's not working,
00:48:42but clearly they're not because there's too much miscommunication, not finger pointing
00:48:47because they haven't really fingerprinted, but they kind of have.
00:48:49And it's like, you stop talking, stop making headlines, like stop saying things that incite
00:48:54people to write about you.
00:48:56It's not that hard.
00:48:58It is.
00:49:00Sometimes it is when you don't have bill Belichick in the room saying, I understand they're emotional.
00:49:04I don't want to act like, you know, Oh, you shut up.
00:49:06Like, I'm not saying that, but like, learn your lesson.
00:49:09At least you've done this before and you made headlines.
00:49:12You don't need to continue to do this.
00:49:13You can have your issues, but like, this is a guy who's supposed to be on the team for
00:49:17a while and you can have your frustrations, but what benefit is it to say it openly after
00:49:23a loss when you know tempers are heated?
00:49:24And I'm sure it's not easy when you know, you feel right after a loss, but it's just
00:49:31like, I'm sick of the, I'm sick of the headline grabbing comments.
00:49:34I really am from people that probably shouldn't be in the headlines for those types of reasons.
00:49:41They should be in the headlines for other reasons.
00:49:45So I guess my final, my final piece here, I'm going to loop it back to the craft's frustration.
00:49:51Gerard Mayo talks about, Harry talked with Tom Curran last week that he meets with ownership
00:49:57all the time.
00:49:59And in that, uh, in that video, uh, John and the craft had a little notepad and it
00:50:04was taking down notes.
00:50:06What does that conversation look like?
00:50:08If, uh, if you had to guess this week, like what, you know what, where, like they can't,
00:50:14they're not going to fire a mid season if they ever do it, they're going to, they're
00:50:17going to let it play out.
00:50:18But I always wonder like if there's, if they have such this good relationship and him and
00:50:24craft are on same terms and they have these nicknames for each other.
00:50:28Apparently Jonathan was on board with it, but then they're also calling around the league
00:50:32and that came out again.
00:50:33Mike, you already talked about that today on social media.
00:50:35He, he pulled an excerpt from his column.
00:50:38He wrote this week where they're calling around and they're not just calling around about
00:50:42Gerard Mayo or about Drake May.
00:50:44They're calling around about Gerard Mayo.
00:50:45They're calling around about Elliot Wolf.
00:50:46So what does the conversation look like?
00:50:49And I know you don't know the answer, but I'm kind of trying to pick your brain to be
00:50:52like, you know, where do they go from here?
00:50:54What's the fix between now and the end of the season?
00:50:57If it's not, Hey, you're coaching for your job right now, Gerard.
00:51:02So you're at Buffalo next week.
00:51:07That's not going to be pretty.
00:51:11Apparently Josh Allen.
00:51:12I don't know that they're just going to roll over after this and just be like, Oh, well,
00:51:16we're going to lose.
00:51:17It's going to be ugly.
00:51:18I'm sure they won't be happy.
00:51:19But realistically, I think you look at that chargers game and you say, if this is not
00:51:25a competitive game, that's like serious.
00:51:31Because if the bills don't even play their starters, like, does it, how much does it
00:51:34matter how you play?
00:51:35It's either like, you should win that game pretty convincingly, maybe not blow them up.
00:51:38Like you've got to win that pretty convincingly if they don't play their starters.
00:51:42But I think that it's been decided before that.
00:51:43I think the chargers are a team that you should be able to keep close.
00:51:47And if you don't, then you get blown out three weeks in a row.
00:51:52I don't know how you justify keeping Mayo around when you want to maximize Drake Mays
00:51:56rookie contract, because I feel like you need to take such a huge step forward.
00:52:01And I also just can't see the locker room not starting to kind of falter three blowouts
00:52:07in a row, right?
00:52:08It's like you're already seeing it.
00:52:09Mayo did it.
00:52:10Right.
00:52:11He's saying things about the coaching staff, like we're already starting to see it starts
00:52:15to kind of chip away.
00:52:17I don't want to be super dramatic or anything.
00:52:21I try to like be measured in these like, but again, this is what we talked about.
00:52:26It can't just be a bunch of blowouts and it's starting to feel like it's trending that way.
00:52:31I'm with you.
00:52:32I think that's where we leave it because it's true, right?
00:52:35It's like, that's, it's where we're at now.
00:52:39And you know, we mentioned these are the games you have to keep close and they're not doing
00:52:44it.
00:52:45And so that's what it comes down to.
00:52:46You have to have these hard conversations, right?
00:52:47Where it's like, well, let's weigh it.
00:52:50And I'm starting to almost convince me now, like you said, you try and be measured.
00:52:54I've tried to give them the benefit of the doubt this whole time, but when push comes
00:52:59to shove and where we're at now, I'm almost starting to convince myself like, Oh, maybe
00:53:03they actually like, this is actually more likely than not that drug may, I was not here
00:53:06next year because you know, you have the quarterback and it's so important.
00:53:10And we've talked about it over and over again for the last 50 minutes, but today was really
00:53:15bad.
00:53:16This felt like rock bottom.
00:53:17And we will see where it goes from now.
00:53:18Taylor, do you have any wrap up final thoughts on this game on the end of the Patriots season
00:53:22before we wrap up this lovely Patriot postgame show?
00:53:28Just got to get so much better fundamentally, really.
00:53:31It's just gotta like, I understand you're being outclassed, but the way that they are
00:53:37losing is just, it's embarrassing.
00:53:40You can't keep getting embarrassed.
00:53:41Cause I don't think they're, they lack talent that badly.
00:53:44I think the difference is that in the moments where you should be seeing like with Belichick
00:53:49defenses, where they just always felt like they were a step ahead, it just never really
00:53:52feels that way anymore.
00:53:53Unless people were trying to throw at Christian Gonzalez.
00:53:55And like, again, the only reason I even think the charters are beatable is because the receiving
00:54:00core is so limited.
00:54:02That's really it.
00:54:03I still think they're a very good team.
00:54:05I just think it's going to be hard for them to score consistently when they can't really
00:54:08throw the ball.
00:54:09And also if the Patriots can't stop the run, then I take that back because you can walk
00:54:13the ball down the field and then I'm sure they're going to just continue to make mistakes
00:54:18in critical situations and you let up red zone touchdowns.
00:54:21So not good, not good.
00:54:24And this is, I think the start of what we talked about where you actually have to start
00:54:29seriously considering Gerrard getting fired after one year.
00:54:32It's crazy that we got here and it happened pretty fast.
00:54:35Not pretty fast.
00:54:36It felt like this all year, but I think we were measured in it and we're hitting our
00:54:40tipping point now.
00:54:41And I feel like that's, I think the Rams, honestly, is when this started.
00:54:45I think the Rams is when you saw just the types of breakdowns were so bad and I know
00:54:50it was tough and you might've been able to write it off if the dolphins wasn't so bad,
00:54:55like again, another difficult team, but like another really ugly loss, then you don't bounce
00:55:00back from it.
00:55:01And then you come off the buy and you get blown out again.
00:55:03It's just, it's just, you can't make excuses anymore because it just piles up and it's,
00:55:08it's past the point of being able to excuse it.
00:55:11It's when me, when Mike Catholic and Taylor Kyle's on the Patriots daily Patriots postgame
00:55:16show are saying that Gerrard Mayo should, it should be considered to be getting fired.
00:55:21That's when you know it's bad because we have been very lenient on this and this was rock
00:55:26bottom and this was it.
00:55:27So we'll see where it goes.
00:55:28We'll see what happens.
00:55:30Patriots fall to three and 11.
00:55:33They haven't won many games.
00:55:34They have three games left.
00:55:36It's looking to me Taylor right now, like this one's going to finish three and 14 and
00:55:39they're going to have some very tough conversations this off season.
00:55:42You have the quarterback, you have cornerback one in Christian Gonzalez and that's pretty
00:55:46much it.
00:55:47So we'll see where it goes.
00:55:49Patriots back at it next week at Buffalo against the bills who just put up nearly 50 points
00:55:54against one of the best teams in football in the Detroit lions.
00:55:58Taylor is not happy.
00:56:00He's going to get in the film room and break this all down just like the Patriots coaches
00:56:03should be doing.
00:56:04And we'll have some more Patriots daily content coming up this week.
00:56:07We'll look at the film.
00:56:08We'll talk about this game a little bit more in depth.
00:56:10We'll talk about the bills.
00:56:11Go ahead, Taylor.
00:56:12Who would you rather if Mayo does get replaced?
00:56:15Would you prefer Dan Campbell or Mike Greenwald?
00:56:18Dan Campbell or Ben Johnson?
00:56:21Ben Johnson.
00:56:22Sorry.
00:56:23Ben Johnson or Mike Greenwald.
00:56:25Oh man, I go back and forth on this.
00:56:28I really like the culture that I know Mike Vrabel can build, but I love the idea of pairing
00:56:35Drake May with Ben Johnson.
00:56:37And I don't like the idea of defensive head coach, offensive coordinator comes in, does
00:56:46really well with Drake May, then he gets poached and then you have to reset.
00:56:49But do we know that Vrabel wouldn't keep Ben Pelt?
00:56:52And also, do we even know that Ben Johnson's a good head coach?
00:56:55No, we don't.
00:56:57That's why I like that.
00:56:58I know that Vrabel can set a culture.
00:57:01That's my thing.
00:57:02Like, obviously Ben Johnson's offense is really cool, but like, I don't know that he can lead
00:57:05an entire team.
00:57:07He might just be the kind of guy where like, if you have enough talent, he can maximize
00:57:10it.
00:57:11And he can be a really good leader or whatever, when things are going well, but like, what
00:57:14if he has to take over this team?
00:57:15I have no idea what he's going to do.
00:57:17I know what Mike Vrabel's teams look like.
00:57:19They're always tough.
00:57:20They're always competitive.
00:57:21They're always well coached.
00:57:22And they always feel like they're prepared.
00:57:23He just never had a good quarterback.
00:57:26Right.
00:57:27And I think Drake May can elevate an offensive coordinator.
00:57:30I also think that-
00:57:31He's doing it right now.
00:57:32He's doing it right now.
00:57:33Exactly.
00:57:34I think guys will want to coach Drake May.
00:57:36I think he'll be fine.
00:57:37But I think it'll always also be important to have that defensive guy who can consistently
00:57:41have those units where we'll get you the ball back.
00:57:44You know, you don't have to worry about it.
00:57:46That's why, like, I don't love the idea of Ben Johnson as a head coach.
00:57:49Like, especially considering you would have to pay a lot for him and you would be going
00:57:53from Gerard Mayo, another guy who flamed out because it seemed like his resume was great,
00:57:59but it just didn't work out.
00:58:00Sorry.
00:58:01I didn't mean to, like, step on you, but-
00:58:02No.
00:58:03You're good.
00:58:04I think it's an interesting conversation.
00:58:05No.
00:58:06I was looking away because I was Googling Mike Vrabel Patriots Hall of Fame photos and
00:58:09I'm going to tweet one and watch Hellburn because that's what I feel like I'm doing
00:58:13right now.
00:58:14So we'll see where it goes.
00:58:15I think Vrabel, I, last year when I was working with WEI and it was the week after or it was
00:58:21the week Bill was about to get fired and I wrote a column that Mike Vrabel should be
00:58:27the guy and here's why.
00:58:29And then when they didn't go through the process and they hired Mayo, I convinced myself that
00:58:37Mayo was the right move for, you know, all the reasons that we've said Mayo could be
00:58:40a pretty good head coach.
00:58:41And I go back on it and not that I wish I stuck to my guns because I wanted to give
00:58:46Mayo a chance just like everyone did, but Mike Vrabel's a good head coach.
00:58:50And I wonder, I go back and I wonder, could they and should they have done that back then?
00:58:55And was that the right decision and not drug Mayo?
00:58:57So we shall see.
00:58:59We'll see if it happens.
00:59:00I know that I would assume that Mike Vrabel would like to come back here, but that's the
00:59:03thing.
00:59:04And now we're going to, we were going to close out the show, but now we've opened this can
00:59:08of worms where I think we talked about it on this show or we talked about it in a stand
00:59:12up or something.
00:59:15Robert Kraft comes to Mike Vrabel and says, Mike Vrabel, I want you to be our head coach.
00:59:20We've had a great relationship.
00:59:21You were our linebacker here.
00:59:22You played really well.
00:59:23You won super bowls.
00:59:24I know how you are.
00:59:26Will you come be my head coach?
00:59:27We're going to stick by you.
00:59:29And Vrabel could go.
00:59:30You just told Gerard Mayo that exact same thing.
00:59:33And you said that Gerard Mayo, you were a linebacker here.
00:59:36I know the culture you can set.
00:59:37I trust you.
00:59:38You're, we have a good relationship.
00:59:39I want to stick by you.
00:59:41But I think the experience and track record part is a big, I know, but in, in Vrabel in
00:59:45the back of rebel bonds, is he like, well, what happens if shit hits the fan for me?
00:59:49Is he going to stand by me?
00:59:50Or is he going to kick me out for the next best thing if I can't get it done?
00:59:53So that's where being an owner and making these decisions becomes really tough.
00:59:58But it also is like Gerard walked into a situation where he could not use any of the money that
01:00:01he had in free agency.
01:00:03He couldn't really build a staff because he didn't have any connections.
01:00:08I think with Mike Vrabel, I understand why he would be hesitant.
01:00:11I don't even disagree.
01:00:12I think that he would be hesitant.
01:00:14I think he would have every right to be hesitant, especially knowing that Robert Kraft is only
01:00:18going to be the owner of the team, the main owner of the team for so long.
01:00:24But I also just think that what he brings, it makes more sense to promise him all those
01:00:28things and more control.
01:00:29But even then you have to wonder if he works with Elliot Wolfe.
01:00:33And like, I think Elliot Wolfe would really be getting the short end of the stick if you
01:00:36kicked him out after one off season.
01:00:37I think that would be like, he has one draft where his second round pick is a bust and
01:00:42it's the route that got hurt.
01:00:43Like, I think that's unfair.
01:00:45I don't think he's done enough to warrant getting fired.
01:00:48If those two could work together, I don't think it would be a problem.
01:00:50But you know, Vrabel wants control.
01:00:51So do they see things through the same set of eyes?
01:00:54Do they want to work together like that?
01:00:56I think would be more of a question than necessarily like, no, but still, I think you're, I still
01:01:01think you're right.
01:01:02That Vrabel should be hesitant because that would be kind of a bad look to fire Mayo this
01:01:06fast.
01:01:07Yep, it sure would.
01:01:08But again, if it's not working and he doesn't bring anything, then you got to make the move.
01:01:13It's crazy.
01:01:14We'll see what happens.
01:01:15We're an hour in.
01:01:16Let's get out of here.
01:01:17We'll see you next week, everyone.
01:01:18Thank you for tuning in.
01:01:19We will have, uh, Ooh, no, Jesse Wilkins in the chat says, stop with Vrabel.
01:01:24What makes him a good coach?
01:01:25I think he's a good culture center.
01:01:26I think he was really good.
01:01:27He has a good tracker and he's literally, he has dragged Ryan Tannehill and like Marcus
01:01:32Mariota to respectable seasons, like for the Titans.
01:01:36Like, right.
01:01:37I think Vrabel is proven.
01:01:39I just think that the level of control he wants an organization may be where teams want
01:01:43to draw the line because I don't think he had a ton of control.
01:01:46I think he wanted more and they were like, we'd rather go with Rand Carthon than necessarily
01:01:51trust that you are going to be able to do both of those things.
01:01:55And then with Wolf has been there for five years.
01:01:57Like that's so disingenuous.
01:01:58I think that he has not been able to run things for five years.
01:02:02This was his first time getting to do that.
01:02:03And I still think that a lot of what he did is underrated.
01:02:05He brought the offensive staff that developed Drake may brought a ton of guys in during
01:02:09the season that proved to be at least, you know, functional starters for them.
01:02:14I think after this offseason, we'll have a much better idea of where he's at because
01:02:18I like a lot of the moves he's made.
01:02:19He's had some misses, but I also think that it's insane to think that he wasn't going
01:02:23to have any.
01:02:24Look at Nick Casario's track record when he first got to Houston.
01:02:27If you want to like, if you want to just judge a GM after one season, look at how many of
01:02:31those drafts didn't really go well until they managed to hit on like Nico Collins was a
01:02:35late guy.
01:02:36And then obviously CJ Shroud tied everything together and they have enough capital to also
01:02:40get Will Anderson.
01:02:42Wasn't easy for me early on either, but like you kind of got to build that reputation.
01:02:45Hopefully, hopefully they can do that this offseason.
01:02:49Yes, that is true.
01:02:50All right, let's close it up.
01:02:51It was fun.
01:02:52Wasn't fun, but it was good to kind of get these things off our chest.
01:02:54Patriots fall to three and 11 through 14 games.
01:02:58They got three games left.
01:02:59We'll see what happens down the stretch.
01:03:01I said it three times now, but me and Taylor will be back this week on Patriots Daily breaking
01:03:04down what happened more in depth in this Cardinals game.
01:03:07And then we will preview the bills coming up as well.
01:03:10Patriots back at it.
01:03:11In Foxborough on Wednesday, I believe they'll be back at practice, so we'll have you covered
01:03:15down there as well.
01:03:16Until then, thank you for tuning in.
01:03:18We appreciate it.
01:03:19We appreciate the super chats.
01:03:20We appreciate the interaction.
01:03:22We appreciate you guys coming to vent with us about this Patriots team.
01:03:27So we'll see you next time.
01:03:27Thanks for watching.
01:03:28Take care of each other.
01:03:29Well, take care of yourselves.
01:03:31Take care of each other.
01:03:31I'm losing my mind.
01:03:32The Patriots think we'll see you next time.
01:03:34Bye, everyone.
01:03:41We'll see you next time.
01:03:42Bye-bye.