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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Sheikh Waqas Akram PTI
- Farieha Aziz (APNS)
- Raheel Iqbal (Vice Chairman P@SHA)
Court reserves verdict in £190 million reference against Imran Khan, Wife - Malick's Analysis
Kya Imran Khan, Bushra Bibi Ko Saza Honay Wali Hai? - Sheikh Waqas Akram's Reaction
Is X Platform Really a Major Threat to National Security? Farieha Aziz's Analysis
Civil Nafarmani Kab, Kahan Aur Kesay Shuru Hogi? - Sheikh Waqas Akram Told Everything
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Muhammad Malick
Guests:
- Sheikh Waqas Akram PTI
- Farieha Aziz (APNS)
- Raheel Iqbal (Vice Chairman P@SHA)
Court reserves verdict in £190 million reference against Imran Khan, Wife - Malick's Analysis
Kya Imran Khan, Bushra Bibi Ko Saza Honay Wali Hai? - Sheikh Waqas Akram's Reaction
Is X Platform Really a Major Threat to National Security? Farieha Aziz's Analysis
Civil Nafarmani Kab, Kahan Aur Kesay Shuru Hogi? - Sheikh Waqas Akram Told Everything
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, you are watching Khabar Lahariya, I am Muhammad Malik.
00:15The biggest news is that the court has secured the case of £190 million,
00:22in which Imran Khan and Usha Bibi have been named.
00:26And now it has been announced that the verdict will be given to Peer.
00:31Why is this decision so important?
00:33Mr. Khan himself, in his different meetings, while talking to the journalists and his party leaders,
00:38has repeatedly said that he is sure that he will be given a punishment.
00:43And you may remember that he had given a list of witnesses in this case,
00:48and then he ended the list.
00:50And when I asked one of the lawyers, what happened?
00:54He said, Mr. Khan has said that he has to give a verdict, he has to give a punishment,
00:59so end this process, let's get it over with, so that he can give a punishment.
01:02So that the appeal process can start.
01:06So he is so sure.
01:08In one of our programs, Faisal Chaudhary, who is a member of his legal team,
01:13he also categorically said that we are absolutely sure that this punishment will be given.
01:18And if anyone has any doubt about this,
01:20So today, when Aleema Khan Sahiba and her team met him,
01:24they spoke to the media a little while ago.
01:27And in this regard, they said the same things that Mr. Khan said about the Judicial Commission,
01:33that the Judicial Commission should be made on the 9th of May,
01:37and the 26th of November issue should be made.
01:39Then they talked about this, and they also repeated the same thing,
01:43that we are sure that Peer will be given a punishment.
01:46The question that arises is that if the punishment is given,
01:50then this is a very heated discussion right now,
01:53that talks should be held, everything should be done.
01:55Will the PTI now go in this direction?
01:58Will it still insist on talks?
02:00Because the atmosphere is such that on the one hand, there is strictness,
02:03on the one hand, punishments are being given,
02:05and on the other hand, there is a call for disobedience.
02:08Where will the discussion go? But first, listen to what Aleema Khan Sahiba said.
02:13Today, they were concluding the case of Al-Qadir.
02:17And today, believe me, it was very saddening.
02:21Because we also know that Qazi Faiz Issa, you may remember,
02:25once gave an indication to the judge,
02:29that there was another case in the Supreme Court,
02:33a case of Manal, in which Qazi Faiz Issa,
02:35because in every such case, the name of Qazi Faiz Issa is always remembered,
02:40he said that there is a possibility that the $190 million
02:45that Malik Riaz had given to Pakistan in the Supreme Court,
02:49this money may have been stolen.
02:51This is what he said.
02:53So, now, on the basis of that,
02:55the judge here, today the case is over.
02:58All the arguments there were over.
03:01And let me tell you this,
03:03that a firm decision has been taken,
03:05the judge feels that on the day of Peer,
03:08he will give him, Imran Khan, the punishment in this case.
03:12Sheikh Waqas Akram has joined us in this program.
03:15He has given us the information.
03:17Assalam-o-Alaikum, Sheikh Sahib.
03:19Yes, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
03:21Sheikh Sahib, till yesterday, the atmosphere was different.
03:24I want to hear some speeches.
03:26And then the atmosphere changed a bit,
03:28when Sher Afzal Marwat said that,
03:30why don't we go to the Parliamentary Committee
03:33Why don't we make a meeting of the Parliamentary Committee,
03:37and some things should be decided there.
03:41Khawaja Asif Sahib picked it up immediately.
03:44Rana Sanaullah Sahib picked it up immediately.
03:49And he gave a complete roadmap.
03:52That if we make a formal request to the Speaker,
03:57and we will tell the Speaker to talk to the Prime Minister,
04:01to talk to the rest of the allies,
04:04and then we can sit down and start the negotiations,
04:07with an open agenda, and things can move forward.
04:10Today, Ayaz Sadiq Sahib has also released a recorded message.
04:14I want you to listen to that first.
04:16Then listen to Ayaz Sadiq Sahib's two or three lines.
04:20And then we will connect,
04:22that what your party is saying,
04:24Aleema Khan Sahiba is also saying,
04:26and you all are sure,
04:28that Peer will be given the punishment
04:30Then where will the talks go?
04:32But let's listen to what happened in the last 24 hours.
05:01No formal talks can take place.
05:04Let's see what the situation is and how it is.
05:07We want the talks to take place today.
05:09You told us to talk till a certain date,
05:11otherwise we will start disobeying you.
05:13Don't hang your tongue at our heads.
05:15We are ready to talk.
05:16The door to dialogue should never be closed.
05:19We are also ready for you to start a discussion.
05:22If you talk about an initiative,
05:25then at least there can't be talks on gunpoint.
05:29You attack Islamabad again and again.
05:32Along with that, call for civil disobedience.
05:34And there will be talks on that too.
05:36Is it not possible for us to form a committee of this kind?
05:41Sit down, what are the mistakes?
05:43What should be our due hours?
05:45And is it not our duty to get this country out of this uncertain situation?
05:50You have never said a word so far.
05:53We have made a committee to negotiate.
05:55The committee is to give an official, serious message to the government.
06:01We can give a message that this is a serious committee,
06:05and we want to have a political dialogue.
06:08We don't do anything on our own.
06:10Mr. Khan understands everything.
06:12He gives instructions.
06:13Mr. Khan has made the committee.
06:15He mentioned the talks.
06:16And Mr. Khan has given a view on some of our demands.
06:21If we can get in touch with him,
06:23then we have been saying for a long time
06:25that we will have to have a political dialogue.
06:29We will get in touch with him.
06:31We will get in touch with whoever we want to get in touch with.
06:33The atmosphere that was created yesterday,
06:35which Mr. Sher Afzal Marwat spoke about,
06:37which Mr. Khawaja Asif spoke about,
06:39and Mr. Rana Sanaullah spoke about,
06:41I saw that.
06:42The speaker's office, the speaker's house,
06:44is open 24 hours a day.
06:46If the opposition and the government want to come,
06:49if they want to talk about negotiations,
06:51if they want to sit together and finish the negotiation,
06:54if there is a situation of law and order,
06:56if they want to keep an eye on it,
06:58the speaker's office is open to all these things.
07:00As long as I am the speaker,
07:02I will not let anything go wrong in this.
07:04And my members are respectable for me,
07:07whether they are from the treasury or the opposition.
07:10Mr. Sheikh, let's start with the speaker first.
07:12Do you understand the weight of what the speaker said?
07:16Do you agree with him?
07:17Do you think the olive branch is an opening?
07:19Rana Sana is saying,
07:20go to the speaker,
07:22we will start the discussion.
07:24The speaker is saying,
07:25I am ready.
07:26But today,
07:27it is being announced that the Pir is being punished,
07:29Mr. Khan,
07:30for the £190 million case.
07:33Where are you standing?
07:36Look, sir,
07:37first of all,
07:38the speaker...
07:47I think we have lost contact.
07:52Please connect with him.
07:54In the meantime,
07:55I would like to listen to Irfan Siddiqui.
07:58Irfan Siddiqui is important
08:00because he is said to reflect
08:02the latest thinking of Nawaz Sharif.
08:08What he is saying is actually a reflection
08:11of what Nawaz Sharif is thinking.
08:13Let's listen to what Irfan Siddiqui said.
08:16First of all,
08:17some people should decide what they want.
08:19Then they should go to Mr. Khan.
08:21Before negotiating with us,
08:23they should negotiate with Mr. Khan.
08:25They should decide what to do.
08:27Otherwise,
08:28they will come and discuss.
08:29There will be a dispute.
08:30We will listen to them.
08:31They will listen to us.
08:32But when they go to Adela,
08:34they will say,
08:35who are you?
08:36I don't believe this.
08:37They have no command.
08:38There is one command
08:39who is sitting in Adela jail.
08:40There is another command
08:41who is sitting in Peshawar.
08:43Yes, Mr. Sheikh,
08:44you heard what Mr. Irfan Siddiqui said.
08:46First,
08:47you should negotiate with Mr. Khan.
08:49Then you should talk to us.
08:51Either Mr. Khan is in Adela
08:53or the other command is in Peshawar.
08:55So,
08:56tell me,
08:57if there is a punishment,
08:58will this be the stance
08:59of the PTI
09:00regarding the dialogue
09:01or will it change?
09:04No, sir.
09:05This will be the stance of the PTI.
09:07It will not change.
09:08This is the committee.
09:09This is what we have to talk about.
09:11And
09:12what Mr. Irfan Siddiqui is saying,
09:14his statement is that
09:16this committee was also made by Mr. Imran Khan.
09:18The day it was made
09:19and announced in Adela,
09:20the chairman of that committee,
09:22who is our opposition leader,
09:23as soon as he came out of Adela,
09:25he was arrested.
09:26So,
09:27this is the committee.
09:28He has to talk.
09:29And
09:30for concerned quarters,
09:31we have opened a window,
09:33Mr. Imran Khan,
09:34which is a prevailing situation
09:36after the
09:37Islamabad
09:38massacre
09:39in which our people
09:41have been martyred
09:42and the way the Prime Minister
09:43and his cabinet
09:44invoked it
09:45245 times
09:46and
09:47shot people.
09:48So,
09:49keeping the situation
09:50that is being created
09:51in front of him,
09:52Mr. Khan said,
09:53okay,
09:54he always says
09:55that we do not do
09:56protests,
09:57although this is wrong.
09:58We nominated
09:59three people
10:00six months ago.
10:01We have
10:02announced
10:03another
10:04committee.
10:05So,
10:06if you don't want to do this now,
10:07you are exposed.
10:08We have been
10:09telling stories
10:10that we do not sit,
10:11we do not talk.
10:12And when we say
10:13that we want to talk,
10:14it is not necessarily
10:15just the government.
10:16You know
10:17and I know
10:18that only the government
10:19has so much power.
10:20Until
10:21concerned quarters
10:22are included
10:23in it,
10:24the government
10:25cannot have meaningful
10:26dialogues.
10:27How they will start,
10:28when they will start,
10:29that is for later.
10:30Concerned quarters,
10:31are you talking
10:32about the army?
10:33I am talking
10:34about the establishment.
10:35Who is the
10:36establishment?
10:38You define it.
10:39You are very old.
10:40I think
10:41whenever we use
10:42the word establishment,
10:43we are talking
10:44about military leadership.
10:45Ordinary people
10:46also think the same.
10:47That is why
10:48I want to be clear.
10:49When you say
10:50establishment,
10:51do you mean
10:52military leadership?
10:53Sir,
10:54the institutions
10:55involved in this
10:56matter,
10:57my example
10:58or my reference
10:59is towards
11:00all of them.
11:01I am telling
11:02concerned quarters.
11:03The definition
11:04of establishment
11:05is known
11:06to all.
11:07Why are you
11:08scared to
11:09talk openly?
11:10Sir,
11:11instead of
11:12Abdul Malik,
11:13if I
11:14take your
11:15nickname,
11:16will you object?
11:17What will you say?
11:18You will get
11:19upset.
11:20Why are you
11:21taking my
11:22nickname?
11:23What will you
11:24say?
11:25Tell me one
11:26thing.
11:27I was talking
11:28to senior
11:29leaders of
11:30PMN.
11:31They said
11:32that the
11:33PTI people
11:34have seen
11:35what happened
11:36to them.
11:37They said
11:38that they
11:39don't have
11:40street power.
11:41Even now,
11:42those who
11:43have called
11:44for civil
11:45disobedience,
11:46they have
11:47put weight
11:48on those
11:49who are
11:50sitting outside.
11:51They are
11:52doing this
11:53because they
11:54know that
11:55their supporters
11:56are so
11:57fatigued
11:58and they
11:59are in
12:00such a bad
12:01condition
12:02that they
12:03cannot
12:04cross
12:05the
12:06road.
12:07They
12:08think
12:09that this
12:10is their
12:11weakness.
12:12They
12:13say that
12:14they are
12:15not in
12:16their position
12:17and that
12:18is why
12:19they are
12:20talking.
12:21Is this
12:22a good
12:23or a
12:24bad
12:25thing?
12:26You
12:27are
12:28talking
12:29about those
12:30who said
12:31that they
12:32cannot
12:33cross
12:34the
12:35road.
12:36Is
12:37this
12:38a good
12:39thing?
12:40They
12:41say that
12:42their supporters
12:43are so
12:44fatigued
12:45and they
12:46cannot
12:47cross
12:48the
12:49road.
12:50Is
12:51this
12:52a good
12:53thing?
12:54They
12:55are
12:56talking
12:57about those
12:58who
12:59are
13:00not
13:01in their
13:02I think Mr. Khan is fair in saying that if you don't stop it now, it will be the first phase.
13:16After that, there will be a second phase which you are referring to.
13:20It is by strategy and we have to make our own strategy.
13:23The poor people who stopped us from crossing the Attock Bridge, who killed our children at D-Chowk,
13:29they are telling us that we are tired.
13:31The people who mobilized 5,000,000 in the last 4 months after reaching Islamabad,
13:36they are telling us that they are tired.
13:38When this government was in power, not even a bird's nest would have come out.
13:42And they are telling us.
13:44They have no shame in saying this.
13:46Mr. Shehzad, you said that 40% of the people are Pashtun, so you expect a lot of support.
13:53But the majority of them, some are drivers, some are others,
13:58they are the people who send the monthly money.
14:01That money is very important to run their homes.
14:04Sir, we did not say that.
14:06Sir, the announcements that we gave, the day when the formation of the committee
14:09and civil disobedience was announced by Mr. Imran Khan,
14:11Mr. Imran Khan said to limit the donations.
14:15He did not say to stop sending money.
14:17He said to limit it.
14:19The word limit means that you are sending Rs. 100, don't send Rs. 100, send Rs. 80.
14:25Block Rs. 20.
14:27And if you look at it from that perspective, that goes in millions.
14:30So the very important money should be sent for the families, why not send it above that?
14:35Yes.
14:37So tell me this, we also gave an announcement that at the highest level,
14:44this decision has been made that we will not be able to talk to Mr. Khan right now.
14:48And if it happens, then when the May 9th case is linked to Mr. Khan,
14:53when his decision will be made,
14:55his decision is also written on the wall,
14:59we can safely assume what the decision will be.
15:02So if the other side, the government is nitpicking,
15:06they are saying, come here, tell the speaker,
15:09first take back your call,
15:11until you take back the call of civil disobedience,
15:13we will not hang a sword and talk to you.
15:16You know that these are fake excuses.
15:18I am just asking you,
15:20that if one thing is clear to you,
15:22that the government does not want to talk to you,
15:24you and your various colleagues have repeatedly said,
15:27that the government wants us to fight the army,
15:31because they are the beneficiaries of that conflict.
15:34But if the government is not talking to you,
15:36and this decision has been made that it will be made after the punishment,
15:39then all this dialogue,
15:41will it not affect your support base?
15:44No, no.
15:45It is not like that, sir.
15:47I have explained one thing to you earlier,
15:49that the government is fine,
15:51the name of the government is there,
15:53whatever it is, it is fine.
15:55The rest you have asked me in the first question.
15:58The thing is, sir,
16:00that there are hawkish elements in the government,
16:06there are people like Aiyaz Sadiq and Rana Sanaullah in the government,
16:11who sometimes talk about responsibility,
16:13and Rana Sanaullah said yesterday,
16:16that how can we sit and talk to them,
16:19if we sit, the establishment will be present.
16:21This is what he said.
16:22On record.
16:24In my show he said that whatever we do,
16:26we will do it with approval.
16:28It is fine.
16:29Then after that,
16:31whether it is Irfan Siddiqui or Taran,
16:34or Talal Chaudhary,
16:36it doesn't really matter.
16:38So then, doesn't it make sense,
16:40that you bluff them,
16:42you formally tell the speaker that we will sit,
16:44and then you see how they come out of it.
16:48Sir, tonight our friends will sit,
16:52we are discussing it,
16:54whether there will be a positive development tonight or tomorrow morning.
16:59Okay, you have said a very good thing.
17:02You are saying that tonight,
17:04your top leadership will sit,
17:06and decide whether we should formally request the speaker.
17:11No, no.
17:12There will be deliberations on various aspects.
17:17We will discuss the speaker's video as well.
17:20Okay.
17:21Sir, you are giving weight to the speaker's offer.
17:25Sir, the weight of the speaker's offer is like,
17:28in our parliament,
17:30our people have become widows.
17:32The poor speaker couldn't do anything.
17:34The MNAs of the speaker's house,
17:36the police break them,
17:38break their cars,
17:39take their dogs,
17:40take their people,
17:42destroy their property.
17:44The poor speaker can't get a privilege motion submitted.
17:47He is a decent man, a good man.
17:51Tell me this.
17:56Mr. Sheikh, we have cut your call.
17:58I think we should take a break.
18:00We will reconnect after the break,
18:02so that the internet,
18:03and we will talk on this internet as well.
18:06What the government was telling us today,
18:08everything is going well.
18:09There is an example in front of you,
18:11that twice I had to be interrupted,
18:13because our internet is not working,
18:15and the connection is dropping.
18:16Let's take a break,
18:17and then reconnect Mr. Sheikh.
18:21Welcome back to the show.
18:25In our program,
18:26the next segment was planned later,
18:28and we had to talk about the internet problems.
18:31You just saw the classic example,
18:33that I was talking to Mr. Sheikh Waqas,
18:35the internet connection was so bad,
18:37that despite repeated attempts,
18:39we were unable to reconnect.
18:41He had one question left,
18:43because we have just received the news,
18:45that Mr. Rana Sinawala has also said,
18:47that it is possible that by Sunday,
18:49he will announce his own committee.
18:51In the meantime,
18:52if the PTI people are interested,
18:54in civil disobedience,
18:56then you can do this as well.
18:58I had to answer this,
19:00but I am telling you again,
19:02my information is that,
19:04this decision has already been made,
19:06there will be no meaningful negotiations.
19:08And if you see anything,
19:10then you will see both sides,
19:12playing committee to committee.
19:14And you will also have to see,
19:16if the negotiations start in any form,
19:18will it be time bound?
19:20Will it be decided,
19:22that we will reach a decision
19:24in a week or two,
19:26or we will reach a decision
19:28in so many sittings?
19:30If it is not time bound,
19:32and it has been decided,
19:34that things will be written
19:36till the 9th,
19:38then it will work,
19:40and maybe the PTI will get
19:42a face-saving way out.
19:44This is what we were expecting
19:46from Punjab,
19:48which we were not able to see.
19:50So anyway,
19:52whatever brings peace in Pakistan,
19:54may Allah make the negotiations
19:56reach a meaningful conclusion.
19:58But I think it won't.
20:00Anyway,
20:02let's talk about the internet itself,
20:04which we had kept delayed.
20:06We are joined by Fariha Aziz Sahiba,
20:08she is a digital rights activist,
20:10co-founder of Bolo Bheekh,
20:12and our guest chairman is Pasha,
20:14from the Pakistan Software Houses Association.
20:16Assalam-o-Alaikum to both of you.
20:18Fariha,
20:20today there was a heated debate
20:22in the house,
20:24and even the allies,
20:26People's Party and others,
20:28they all applauded the government
20:30for this. Let's see what happened.
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30:58Sir, you are saying that on an average, these digital economies are growing at a rate of 40%
31:03and ours is growing at a rate of 27%.
31:05This means that there are 13-14% loss opportunities as well.
31:09We are not growing at that rate.
31:11Sir, we were growing.
31:14If you see, we are still growing.
31:16But what happens is that there are growth hindrances due to these issues.
31:20And if you see, the potential for growth in Pakistan is even greater than this.
31:25Because the government is working on every sector.
31:27What are our difficulties?
31:29Is it because of the web management system?
31:31Firewalls?
31:33The things that are happening in the name of national security.
31:35Is this causing destruction?
31:37See, like there is firewall and VPN.
31:41The thing is that the companies that provide work to the IT companies in Pakistan,
31:47they have a requirement that whatever data they access,
31:51whether it is through VPN, it should be safe and secure.
31:54Data privacy, data security is number one for everyone at this time.
31:58So without VPN, it becomes very difficult for the IT industry to function.
32:02A client has written in a contract that this VPN will be used to access our system.
32:10We have to do the software live, we have to access our data live.
32:13So if you register a VPN from the government and that VPN will be used,
32:18is that a hindrance or a facilitation?
32:22Sir, VPN whitelisting is not practically possible at this time.
32:28It is not even possible.
32:30So basically, what happens in the world is that instead of whitelisting,
32:35they go for VPN service providers.
32:37Like ExpressVPN and NordVPN.
32:40These are the service providers in the world.
32:42You come to the service providers,
32:44and you cover all angles of national security and industry.
32:51Those are the better solutions we should move towards.
32:56So the idea that you register a VPN and then you can use it,
33:00this is absurd, right?
33:03Basically, when the government and PASHA, our chairman,
33:08have had a lot of dialogues.
33:10The entire cabinet of PASHA, we are in touch.
33:15We give our opinion and our proper working to the government.
33:20We are professionals, we give them the solutions.
33:23So the government listens to it and understands that this is an industry problem.
33:27But there should be a proactive approach.
33:30Before hopping on to a decision, the government should...
33:34You are clearly a very polite man.
33:37You are also a businessman.
33:39I can understand your constraints while talking.
33:41What I understood from you is that
33:44their decision to register a VPN and then use it,
33:48it's a bad decision.
33:50This is absurd.
33:51And there is no benefit to it. It's a loss.
33:54Yes, obviously.
33:55That's why the alternative is service providers.
33:58You can go through service providers.
34:00And that's a better solution.
34:02They were making so much noise here.
34:04The PTA was also saying,
34:05Oh, we did it.
34:07Now register a VPN.
34:08The business will be great.
34:10They don't know what they are talking about.
34:12The world is working differently.
34:15Yes, it is like that.
34:17That's why we always say that Pasha is sitting here.
34:19We are IT companies sitting here.
34:20Come to us, talk to us, dialogue with us.
34:23We will provide you a better solution.
34:26Before you actually move on to any decisions,
34:29we are here to guide.
34:31And it has always been like this.
34:32All the government officials, Pasha,
34:34lives on with them.
34:38And this is where the growth of the industry is possible.
34:42You keep talking.
34:43They are not listening to you.
34:44Fariha, tell me this.
34:45This is a very startling revelation for me.
34:48We thought that maybe the government has played a trick
34:51that we will register VPNs.
34:53And then everything will be fine.
34:55Security will also be there.
34:57All the people, virtual private networks,
34:59terrorists use it.
35:01Everything will be fine.
35:03What Raheel sir has said,
35:04they are telling that it's just a sham.
35:06I don't know what they are doing.
35:08They have no idea.
35:09But you tell me,
35:10you were talking about rights and interests.
35:12I was looking at a report
35:13in which the rating of the Cyber Security Index came.
35:16Pakistan is now in the top 40 from 78 to 79.
35:20So, do we see these cyber security measures
35:24that here their surveillance,
35:27the power to keep an eye on me has increased.
35:30Not necessarily that services have improved.
35:33Has it become more intrusive
35:36that what you and I think,
35:38what we don't think,
35:39and what we should think.
35:41Does this mean cyber security in their opinion, Fariha?
35:45Look, in their opinion, this is what it means.
35:48If it is about cyber security,
35:50then you will protect your infrastructure
35:52and your servers from outside attacks.
35:55If it is not unprotected,
35:57then there are certs,
35:58there are response teams,
35:59and the method is different.
36:01Cyber crime has a completely different formula
36:03which is your legal prosecution.
36:05We see that too.
36:06For what do you file a report,
36:08when the problems of the common people
36:10are not being addressed by the FIA.
36:12Then you have the web monitoring here.
36:14We are told that the firewall is everywhere.
36:17The firewall that is typically in your laptop is different.
36:20And the firewall that you are talking about
36:22is a Chinese model
36:24that is used for information control,
36:26used for monitoring.
36:28So, there is an answer to surveillance
36:30that these two things are happening
36:32that we are seeing.
36:34Disruption and throttling.
36:35There are slow speeds.
36:37You are not able to access some content.
36:39It is available on the internet.
36:41You can access it through VPN.
36:43But your access has been throttled.
36:45Then the X platform has been banned.
36:48You can only access it through VPN.
36:50Turn off VPNs.
36:51You cannot access WhatsApp media.
36:53You are doing something.
36:54It is not the fault of the submarine cable
36:56that if you increase it
36:57or bring fiber optics, it will be better.
36:59This is something that is being done.
37:01Disruption is being caused.
37:03And this slows down the information.
37:05You have blocked it live.
37:07It is live.
37:08You will not be able to cover it.
37:10So, what is happening now?
37:11People go and record it.
37:12They come back.
37:13They upload it on Wi-Fi.
37:14You have created a delay.
37:16So, this is deliberate
37:17to block information.
37:20To make your statement public.
37:22And then you say
37:23that this is a disinformation problem.
37:25Disinformation is a Trumpian.
37:27This fake news is used in Trumpian ways
37:29so that the critics and dissidents
37:31spread fake news.
37:32When you are checked,
37:33you spread fake news.
37:35You are running an industry.
37:38These slowdowns,
37:40like Shiza Fatima Sahiba said
37:42that we will add four marine cables soon.
37:46The impression was that
37:47there is a capacity issue.
37:49Speed is low.
37:50Everything is there.
37:51The speed of the internet is decreasing.
37:54The destruction is spreading.
37:56They have said about X.
37:57It is closed on a security basis.
37:59The rest of the slowdowns.
38:00Is this issue only because
38:03these firewalls and delays
38:05are being done deliberately
38:07or is there a technical reason?
38:09Are these things being delayed
38:10because of policy
38:12and there are disruptions?
38:13Or are there disruptions
38:14because of technical reasons?
38:16There are multiple reasons.
38:18The first thing is that
38:20our local infrastructure
38:25and internet consumption
38:27is increasing day by day.
38:29We need to have proper planning.
38:31We need to plan
38:32where our internet consumption
38:34will be in the next two years.
38:38We need to improve
38:40the overall infrastructure.
38:42We need fibrillation.
38:44We need 5G rollout.
38:48We will come to that.
38:51That is my next question.
38:53The slowdown of the internet,
38:56the destruction of WhatsApp,
38:58the linkages in my program
39:00have been cut off.
39:02We are not able to connect.
39:04Is this a crisis of technical capacity
39:08or is it because of a policy decision
39:10to slow down everything
39:12and keep it suppressed?
39:14Explain this to me.
39:16It is definitely a technical issue.
39:21National security is the priority
39:23of every government in the world.
39:25Firewall monitoring,
39:27traffic monitoring...
39:28Do you know when was the first time
39:30we had a firewall in Pakistan?
39:32It was in 2010.
39:34Do you know the reason?
39:36A lot of people go to porn sites
39:38and watch forced things
39:40to save the nation's character.
39:42In 2010, there was a firewall
39:44to save my character.
39:46Now there is a firewall
39:48to save national security.
39:50Every six months,
39:52the definition of national security
39:54changes.
39:56I just want to understand
39:58that the marine cables,
40:00the spectrum capacity,
40:02if the government
40:04doesn't interfere,
40:06will WhatsApp continue to be
40:08destroyed?
40:10Will everything be destroyed
40:12because of the government's
40:14deliberate interference
40:16and deliberately distorting things?
40:19Obviously,
40:21when you implement
40:23a firewall,
40:25it has ripple effects.
40:28The internet is slow,
40:30WhatsApp messages
40:32are not properly
40:34communicated.
40:36Definitely,
40:38there needs to be
40:40a next level
40:42competence capacity
40:44to smoothly implement
40:46the next level
40:48of technology.
40:50Obviously,
40:52our local companies
40:54are experts
40:56in cybersecurity.
40:58They are experts
41:00on that.
41:02We can onboard them
41:04and work with them
41:06so that we can
41:08manage these issues
41:10in a timely manner.
41:12Definitely,
41:14we will be able
41:16to implement
41:18the next level
41:20of technology.
41:22Faria,
41:24I was speaking
41:26to a Chinese engineer
41:28and I asked him
41:30about China's
41:32bottlenecks.
41:34He said that
41:36they had built up
41:38their capacity
41:40and calculated
41:42but the backroom
41:44services and
41:46the entire system
41:48was not there.
41:50They should have
41:52done a pilot project
41:54but they did not.
41:56We are seeing
41:58digital platforms
42:00being built.
42:02Are we heading
42:04towards a disaster
42:06due to human rights
42:08and privacy laws?
42:10What should we do
42:12about it?
42:14China aspires
42:16and has been doing this
42:18for a long time.
42:20The Chinese economy
42:22and technical infrastructure
42:24are not dependent on
42:26foreign platforms.
42:28They are different
42:30but they have
42:32a porous firewall.
42:34You cannot shut it down.
42:36You are reliant on
42:38foreign platforms.
42:40You do not have those services.
42:42You are reliant on
42:44industry and other services.
42:46Secondly,
42:48it is a political question
42:50whether you consider yourself
42:52a democracy on paper
42:54or are you like
42:56the Chinese regime
42:58or Myanmar?
43:00Digital authoritarianism
43:02is heading towards
43:04Pakistan.
43:06When you say that
43:08we are in the top 40
43:10in cyber security
43:12how do you read this?
43:14What does it mean for you?
43:16Cyber security is a completely different thing.
43:18We are talking about information control.
43:20If we are at the top
43:22then why is Shehzaad Fatima saying
43:24there are so many attacks
43:26due to cyber security.
43:28It is contradictory.
43:30Your policies are not adding up.
43:32Cyber security
43:34is not like that.
43:36WhatsApp disruption
43:38has nothing to do with
43:40submarine cable fault.
43:42It is a specific disruption.
43:44Bypassing VPN
43:46is not a global issue.
43:48It is a localised issue.
43:50It is a technical disruption.
43:52This is a deliberate fault
43:54that is being created.
43:56You are a businessman.
43:58I don't want to put you in
44:00a hot spot.
44:02I understand your compulsions
44:04but I have a black and white question
44:06for you.
44:08If you don't want to answer
44:10then just say no comment.
44:12If you want to answer then answer honestly.
44:14All the problems that we are facing
44:16like slowdowns
44:18and we give advice.
44:20At the government level
44:22are there technical
44:24crisis or
44:26capacity crisis?
44:28Are the people
44:30who are making these decisions
44:32capable?
44:34Is there a capacity crisis
44:36or not?
44:38As I told you earlier
44:40we should onboard
44:42before taking a decision.
44:44Government sometimes onboard
44:46later than the advisory industry.
44:48We should onboard
44:50timely.
44:52Our opinion should be considered
44:54timely. When a problem arises
44:56then it is considered.
44:58These are the things
45:00that you have flagged
45:02that these issues will arise.
45:04But still you are called
45:06to come here.
45:10I think
45:12technical capacity
45:14is an issue.
45:16If technical capacity
45:18was built then
45:20it would have been implemented smoothly.
45:22But you should onboard
45:24your stakeholders timely.
45:26Thank you very much.
45:28We have run out of time.
45:30It is a serious capacity crisis.
45:32Big decisions
45:34are made.
45:36Big objectives are made.
45:38People are sitting in big offices
45:40but they don't have technical powers.
45:42You have seen that the Pashas
45:44are saying that they inform
45:46and when a problem arises
45:48then they come.
45:50It is a serious capacity crisis
45:52and the whole country is suffering.
45:54No one is saying to compromise
45:56on national security.
45:58No one is saying to leave Pakistan vulnerable.
46:00But for God's sake
46:02if you want to work, do it wisely
46:04and bring people who have capacity.
46:06Don't bring people on the basis of ranks
46:08but appoint them on the basis of capacity.
46:10Otherwise this drama will continue
46:12and there will be billions of losses.
46:14When your progress was supposed to be here
46:16and it was only this much
46:18then don't say that we have progressed this much.
46:20Look at the food that you were at 27%
46:22and you were supposed to be at 40%
46:24you are still in a loss.
46:26But who will make them understand?
46:28They can increase their salaries,
46:30increase their packages by 400% or 900%
46:32then the nation can go to hell.
46:34May I leave now? Allah Hafiz.