Bob Ryan, Jeff Goodman, and Gary Tanguay are back to discuss recent NBA news, and give an evaluation of the top rookies in the 2024 class. Who are the front runners for ROTY? Who could be a bust? The guys cover all that and more.
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SportsTranscript
00:00It's time for the Bob Ryan, Jeff Goodman, where in the world is Jeff Goodman now?
00:29How does it feel to be traveling the globe?
00:49They're empty nesters and they're just traveling everywhere.
00:51How does it feel to not have a base, to not have a mortgage?
00:55How does that feel?
00:57It sounded great in theory, guys.
01:00When we decided to do this and sell our house and not really have a plan, but for at least
01:04six weeks, just go.
01:07We started in Aruba, went to New York, saw the Great Gatsby, good show, good show.
01:13Then we went to Bloomington.
01:14My daughter had her wisdom teeth out, so we were there for like a week when nobody was
01:18really on campus.
01:20Then went to the Cape.
01:21My parents played a couple of games.
01:23I'm now up here in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.
01:25I go back to the Cape, then Austin, Texas.
01:28Then we come back, get in two cars, drive to Nashville, meet my daughter for a couple
01:32nights because she turns 21, then drive to Charleston where we'll be in for four months
01:38and maybe buy there.
01:40It sounded great.
01:42It sounded like this awesome thing, like all these places.
01:45Man, living out of one suitcase, I'm about a month in right now.
01:51If you told me tomorrow- Bob Ryan is shaking his head.
01:54No way.
01:55He's marveling, that's all.
01:56Yeah.
01:57Did you know what?
01:58Again, right now, if you told me, hey, you could go to Charleston tomorrow and unpack
02:03all your ... We have all our stuff right now in two cars at my parents in their garage,
02:08basically.
02:09Filled.
02:10Locked in, filled.
02:11We got one suitcase a piece that we're living out of.
02:12If you told me tomorrow I could go to Charleston, unpack at our Airbnb that we're going to
02:17be at four months, I would say, you know what?
02:19Where do I sign?
02:20I'm ready.
02:21I'm ready.
02:22I'm worn down.
02:23I just want to get to Charleston.
02:24Anyways, he's working out of my old hometown, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, one of the great-
02:28Love it.
02:29Phenomenal town.
02:30Anyway, so guys, let's start.
02:33Anthony Edwards is an interesting guy.
02:35Yes.
02:36What do you think?
02:37He had some comments about you.
02:38First of all, you've known him for how long, Jeff?
02:41Only a few years.
02:43I sat down with him for a while, early on in his Georgia years, one year at Georgia
02:48in college, where they were atrocious.
02:50I mean, they were a train wreck.
02:52They won, I think, five SEC games that year under Tom Crean.
02:55He got fired after that.
02:57But I never questioned Anthony Edwards' talent.
03:02I don't think anybody ever did.
03:03I just thought, I'm not sure he was the same draft as LaMelo Ball.
03:08I remember saying, I'm not sure I'd take either one of these and feel good about it.
03:12I just probably said it to you, Bob, when we were doing our pod back then.
03:17I was like, I don't know if I trust either one of them.
03:19Well, I'm right about LaMelo.
03:21And I have more information on LaMelo because I spent way too much time with that family.
03:25I didn't know Ant-Man like I knew LaMelo.
03:29And I was wrong.
03:30I was wrong.
03:31Again, I didn't know if he had kind of the right support system around him as much as
03:36anything coming into the league.
03:37And then he goes to Minnesota, where you're like, OK, I questioned his support system,
03:42and now you're going to put him in Minnesota?
03:45Like now I'm really worried.
03:46Ant-Man, like talent on the court, working on the court, loving playing ball on the court.
03:53That's all non-negotiable.
03:55He's that talented.
03:56And he's that much of a killer.
03:58Now, his off-the-court comments are bewildering, to say the least.
04:02Bewildering.
04:03I like that.
04:04Yeah.
04:05I mean, so he said, so Bob, I mean, do you have a comment on him as a player?
04:09Then we'll get into the topic.
04:10Simply, no.
04:11He's turned out to be the offensive machine that being the number one pick in the draft
04:17warrants.
04:18And as Jeff said, people knew he had skill, but he's harnessed it properly, I think.
04:25He's very cocky, but that's part of a package of a lot of people.
04:31And that's OK.
04:32And so on the court, he's a dynamic player.
04:37He's one of the most dynamic players in the league today.
04:39There's no question.
04:41And he's turning out to be everything a number one pick could be, except winning a championship.
04:47And no one was expecting that right away in Minnesota.
04:50Minnesota is now a viable team.
04:53Minnesota had certainly good stretches last year, and they're respectable, to say the
04:59very least.
05:00And he's a center.
05:01He's part of it.
05:02He's an Olympian.
05:04And by the way, he made contributions that they needed at various times during those
05:07Olympics.
05:09His offensive spark in at least two games, as I recall.
05:12Anyway, so, yeah, the player is fine, but he's not much of a basketball historian.
05:21We'll just put it that way.
05:22OK.
05:23And on that note, and Bob Ryan, I remember Bob Ryan was one of the first to really, I
05:27mean, Jeff, you knew him because you cover the college.
05:30But Bob, you know, halfway through the season was the first to say, this guy has Jordan
05:34like quality.
05:36That person says comments where he says only Jordan had skills.
05:40Bob, I will let you take it from there.
05:42Well, I'd love to hear how he defines skill.
05:46What does that mean?
05:47Is it a vertical leap?
05:51Is it what is it?
05:52I don't know what it is.
05:53You know, ball handling.
05:54Yeah.
05:55Yeah.
05:56I mean, please define it.
05:57I seem to recall some pretty good ballplayers in the old days, you know, and of course,
06:02we had one thing that the game had that is phasing out and maybe it'll be a cycle only,
06:08although we can always talk about that, which is the big man, the emphasis, the distortion
06:14of the game via the three and the concurrent diminishing of the role of the old fashioned,
06:20as Al McGuire would say, aircraft carriers center.
06:24And you know, that it's not a prized asset anymore.
06:29And so fine, but I'm thinking about, you know, just so we're suggesting that magic
06:35and Larry and Larry weren't skillful.
06:38We're suggesting I'd like to see Bernard King.
06:43Let this kid guard Bernard King, see how he does.
06:46You know, I like Dominic, Dominic Wilkins, Dominic Wilkins, the original human original
06:52human.
06:53How about a healthy Greenhill?
06:55He was skilled.
06:56Yes.
06:57Oh, my God.
06:58Yeah.
06:59He's a definition of it.
07:00So where does he get this idea?
07:02I don't think that's all really.
07:04I mean, that's that's the worst thing is here's the quote guys.
07:08Can I read you the quote?
07:09He said, yeah, please.
07:10I didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't speak up.
07:13They say it was tougher back then than it is now, which it was.
07:16It was.
07:17But I don't think anybody had skill back then.
07:20Michael Jordan was the only one that really had skill.
07:22You know what I mean?
07:23So that's why when they said Kobe, they were like, oh, my God.
07:26But now everybody has skill.
07:28And I go back to his first comment.
07:29I didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't speak out.
07:34Then don't speak up.
07:35Shut the hell up about it.
07:37Well, yeah, but OK, let's let's analyze this a little bit, because I think one of the areas
07:45that has led to this misconception, Jeff, I'll start with you on this is the three point
07:50shot.
07:51I think the three point shot has made this such a different game and with the invasion
07:57of the European players, you know, where we talked about it.
08:01I mean, how many three pointers a game did Larry take?
08:04I don't know.
08:05Three, four, five.
08:06Five would be a big night.
08:07Yeah.
08:08Five would be above.
08:09But so now with the three point shot in the scoring.
08:13I mean, I think people have totally lost perception of how good the players were because
08:22they just didn't take as many threes and didn't develop and didn't work on it as it as a necessary
08:28component.
08:29Correct.
08:30You know, stages of the three.
08:31Still, we had the idea that it was it wasn't it was a bad shot.
08:36Was a bad shot.
08:37You know, one of the first people that exploited in a very strategic way was Larry.
08:44And Larry picked his spots with it, you know, but if you told him today, hey, it's quite
08:48OK to take 10, 11 threes, he would have, you know, OK, if he may or may not have liked
08:56it.
08:57But but he's very good at it and he would have known it was good for the team.
08:59Yeah.
09:00Yeah.
09:01You have a very good point.
09:02If you could define it.
09:03Now, look, the greatest shooter of all time is in our midst.
09:06He's still playing.
09:07It's called Steph Curry.
09:08OK.
09:09There was nobody as good as Steph Curry from the distance that he shoots from as frequent
09:13because no one would possibly shoot from that distance.
09:15There's no point to it prior to three.
09:17You know, there's no point to it.
09:19There's no need to do that.
09:20The game was concept of the game has radically flipped from inside out to out outer and Caitlin
09:27Clark.
09:28You know, so I used to say Steph Curry, but now he shoots layups compared to her.
09:32So with distance anyway, as a bad joke.
09:36But anyway, we got it anyway.
09:38The game's concept is completely flipped in that regard.
09:42I mean, it's not, you know, and we know that the deramification of basketball and the most
09:47odious phrase since I've been following basketball my whole life, the worst shot in basketball
09:52is the long two that that like it's that sticks in my my gut.
09:56I can't stand to hear that.
09:58So anyway.
09:59Yeah, but I mean, Jeff, just know, I just want to make it also the rules, Gary, which
10:04I also the the rules and how they've changed have enabled now where, you know, teams are
10:09averaging one hundred and fifteen points a game, right?
10:12Where where?
10:13Come on.
10:14I mean, let's face it back.
10:15I mean, you look at it, they were averaging under one hundred points and they had to do
10:19something to change that because it wasn't visually eye pleasing.
10:23So so they did.
10:24I mean, you can't play the same way now again.
10:27That's not to say and Edwards couldn't have played back in the 80s.
10:31He could.
10:32He was not disparaging him.
10:34Right.
10:35Right.
10:36Oh, no.
10:37Oh, no, no, no, no.
10:38No, he wouldn't.
10:40But the point, you know, the flip side is what we always have to you know, but I'm more
10:43concerned about, you know, the the the evaluation of how the old guys would have done in today's
10:50game kind of thing, as if there were no it was not such a thing as athleticism.
10:53Hell, we had left system in the 50s, let alone the 70s or 80s.
10:57So I have a comment about that.
10:59I mean, really, before we get off the topic, I have something I want to say about that.
11:03But I think, Jeff, you just nailed it when you're talking about the points where I think
11:09people like Edwards or for that matter, others, they have a macro vision of the game instead
11:16of a micro vision of the game where they just look at the scores, you know.
11:19So how many times during the week do we look, you know, Jeff, and it's like one thirty to
11:23one twenty five.
11:24I mean, I love it.
11:26I mean, I love it.
11:27I love today's game.
11:28I love it.
11:29I love offense.
11:30And I know that that's, you know, maybe I'm not a true pure Puritan or whatever I love.
11:37I love it all.
11:38I mean, I loved it in the 80s.
11:39I love it now.
11:40But I think when people look at the scores, that's what they think.
11:43Yeah.
11:44You see, the guys are averaging 20 right now that never would have been averaged at 20.
11:50You know, 20 is like an easier number to get.
11:52Obviously, when you're averaging 115 points as a team, it's it's very different.
11:58So it's not apples to apples anymore.
12:01The numbers aren't quite the same.
12:03And again, I mean, you can go down the list like, listen, Steph Curry is the best shooter
12:07that ever lived.
12:08Well, like Reggie Miller was pretty damn good.
12:11I think he was skilled.
12:12I think he was good.
12:13Chris Mullen was pretty skilled.
12:15Was he not?
12:16I mean, very small.
12:17And I know I wanted to cite Chris Mullen as an example of, you know, that his his skill
12:25he was the second best player in the Olympic team, by the way, and during the games in
12:281992 after Barkley, you know, you got to say Barkley didn't have skills, by the way.
12:35You know, I wonder what Chuck is going to say when he hears that.
12:38Oh, yeah.
12:39I'd love to know.
12:40And the other thing is, you've got a guy like Kareem.
12:42I don't think that the NTFs can remotely comprehend what a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was like.
12:49And because there is nothing like him today.
12:51You know, I'm glad you brought up Kareem because I think because of his mannerisms,
12:57his personality and because of the gentleman that he is, I think he's underrated by today's
13:05fan.
13:06Now, if you saw him play, Bob, obviously, I mean, you know, we grew up watching Kareem
13:11Abdul-Jabbar.
13:12He is you can make him.
13:15You know, you want to say he's the greatest that ever lived?
13:17Sure.
13:18He Jordan Russell.
13:19I don't know.
13:20Whatever.
13:21Because because he's not he's not like Shaquille, who, you know, is not doing every commercial.
13:26He's not on Instagram.
13:27He's not doing it.
13:28But people really have lost track, Bob, of how great he was.
13:33You can make the argument.
13:35He's the greatest senator that ever lived.
13:37Oh, there's not the great holy trinity of senators.
13:39And, you know, you're free to pick which one you you want with Russell and Wilt.
13:44I mean, it's still I still insist that any list of top 10 without question and top five
13:50highly arguably players who ever played, you have to have those three senators, period.
13:56It starts with them.
13:57And then we go and then we go from there.
13:59So in that regard, and because Senator now the position requirements and job description
14:05was so are so different than a forward and a guard that they have to be in their own
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15:50Jeff, and I'll start with you on this topic.
15:54I do believe, because I know what Mr. Ryan's going to say, I believe.
15:57I do believe that if you took any of the great players from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, what
16:04he said, and move them into other areas, they would adjust and they would still be
16:10great players.
16:11In other words, if you took Dominique, okay, if you took Walt Frazier from the 70s and
16:16put him in today's game, he would still be great because he would make the adjustments
16:22that he needed to make to be a great player.
16:25That's what I feel.
16:26Everybody goes back to like Koozie or like John Stockton.
16:29Like that's the problem is these guys go back to them.
16:33Yeah, they were kind of outliers in a sense, right?
16:36Like John Stockton didn't look the part, but he was so cerebral.
16:39Yes, he played with Karl Malone.
16:41That helped their two-man game.
16:43But like, yeah, could John Stockton guard today?
16:46Well, he wasn't great defensively then, but I'll tell you what, like he made every right
16:50decision, didn't he?
16:52Like he could have played.
16:53Maybe he wouldn't have put up quite the same numbers, but he would have been effective.
17:00He might have had to hit the weight room a little bit more now.
17:03That might've been the difference.
17:04They didn't do that then.
17:05He wasn't blessed with that body, but man, he had this.
17:10Let me tell you a guy, I don't want to talk about seeing the forest for the trees, I forget
17:16somebody, rather obvious that would have been a star at the same level in any era, John
17:21Havlicek.
17:22John Havlicek would have fit into any defensive scheme that has ever been concocted.
17:26There was a 1962 when he was a rookie or 2024, 25, first of all, talk about athlete,
17:34there was this extraordinary athlete that would have been fit beautifully.
17:39And by the way, he had three-point range even in his day, but it was seldom utilized.
17:44Oh, he hated the shot.
17:45I mean, we talked about it.
17:46He could, but he couldn't.
17:47I mean, he even told me, like I've talked about this before, meeting my hero, John Havlicek,
17:53and the topic was the three-point shot.
17:54And he said, Gary, I despise it.
17:56Tell me in the parking lot of the garden or in the parking lot, in front of the new garden,
18:03which is now the big monstrosity, basically a mall, John Havlicek standing there sitting
18:07next to me on a wintery night, and he says to me, I hate the three-point shot, period.
18:15Bob loves it.
18:16Bob loves it.
18:17It's like music to his ears right now.
18:18It's true.
18:19He hated it.
18:20He said it's ruining the game.
18:22And I get it.
18:24I totally get it.
18:25And he, obviously, Bob, he would have been a great three-point shooter.
18:27Well, he had a range every now and then.
18:30I'll just throw you three more names that I think would, they did quit themselves admirably
18:34in today's game.
18:35And that would be Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Elgin Baylor.
18:40These young folks have no concept about Baylor's role in the evolution of the game, namely
18:47the basically invented modern individual basketball moves.
18:51Pete Maravich.
18:52Earl Monroe.
18:53You know?
18:54I mean, come on.
18:55Maravich.
18:56No, Maravich scored 68 points in Massacre Garden without the three, and he had three-point
19:00range.
19:01And when he, that would have been, you know, they, anyway, well, we, we, we.
19:06No, but it's good to talk about.
19:07I will say this, and I, and I may be, maybe I'm going old bastard, and you guys can call
19:13me old bastard Tanguy.
19:15I will say this, Jeff, today's player is not as tough as yesterday's player because they
19:22bitch too much.
19:23Yeah.
19:24A hundred percent.
19:25On the whole.
19:26And they're just conditioned.
19:27It's the, they're conditioned to like.
19:32We've seen it.
19:33Yeah.
19:34But I do think like Ann Edwards is kind of an old school guy, and to hear him killing
19:37old school basketball, it's just stupid.
19:40And it's, it's not even disrespectful.
19:43It's just honestly not, not being educated in it.
19:48It's not being educated in it as much.
19:50Let's not forget, by the way, we can't, we have a new, literally minted coach of a team
19:56on the West Coast who was on record as saying that those guys played against plumbers and
19:59firemen.
20:00And so, and you can't walk away from that one.
20:04I want the full scale apology.
20:06So on that one too.
20:07We'll hear it again, hey, in 25 years, they'll be saying it about this group, you know, that,
20:12that they didn't guard at all, that they weren't tough, that whatever it is.
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22:04What game time today?
22:05What time is it?
22:07Game time.
22:08How do we feel about, how do we feel about this draft class?
22:11These rookies coming in, Jeff?
22:13I mean, it's underwhelming.
22:15It's underwhelming.
22:16We talked about this draft and number one pick, you know, Mr. Shea probably would have
22:21gone in a normal year, you know, eight, 10, 12, something like that in a good year in
22:26a good year.
22:27I should say, um, you know, my big question for, for Bob and then I'll answer, I'm curious
22:34to hear your answer too, Gary.
22:35Like who is the rookie that you can't wait, is there one?
22:42Is there one you're really looking, cause last year it was Victor, Victor, Victor and
22:45Chad Holmgren coming off the interview.
22:47Those two were like the two and it was all really about Victor.
22:50Chad had a great year.
22:51This year, is there somebody that you are really, really interested in looking forward
22:55to seeing?
22:56No.
22:57Given the fact that I truly never heard of half of the first round due to the European
23:02representation of it, the French, the French nature of it, uh, you know, there's a guy
23:09that has been, uh, now Jimmy Shapiro, I'd say is the favorite for rookie of the year.
23:15And I've got my eye on him only because I've heard about his father when he was in college
23:20and that's Reed Shepard.
23:21You know, I'm curious.
23:23I never projected that he would be that esteemed.
23:25He was the third pick in a draft, I believe.
23:28And that, uh, you know, he would be a favorite for the rookie of the year.
23:31That's going to be a hard one to live up to, I think, but, uh, uh, you know, as, but
23:35I do remember his father, Jeff, and I remember writing a column about Jeff and that's 78,
23:40um, excuse me, 80, you know, 80, I'm talking about for Kentucky back in the day.
23:45Right.
23:46You know, Jeff, I just don't expect anything from the, I don't expect anything from the
23:51young players anymore.
23:52Um, I mean, this year's class, especially, I'm interested to see Reed Shepard because
23:59this is a kid who came in at Kentucky is like the afterthought, like people were talking
24:02about him as like a four year player and a program guy who might not play last year.
24:08And instead he came off the bench and was their best player.
24:10And as Bob said, got drafted, I was really going to help Houston a lot because he's so
24:15mature.
24:16He'll add to that team and really help on the connector.
24:21Well, he's not going to blow your way.
24:22He's not going to blow your way though.
24:23And I don't really, I mean, it's a guy, Jeff, let's face it.
24:29You know, the LeBron James at 19 is, I mean, that's a once in a lifetime player.
24:35These guys coming out at 19 now, um, you know, like Victor came out and we kept an eye on
24:41him, but he wasn't really a factor, you know, I mean, he's, he didn't come on.
24:46It's just, I think it's, I think the days of seeing a rookie come in and take control
24:51of the league are over.
24:53I'm not looking for that, but here's what I'm looking for.
24:55Here's the biggest thing I'm looking for this year, because I think it's going to determine
24:59some things future Donovan Klingin and Zacky both drafted in the top 10, both traditional
25:06bigs.
25:08And we've talked about the fact that traditional bigs, right.
25:11Be drafted that high anymore because of the way the league's got and clean goes to Portland
25:16and Zacky goes knife to Memphis.
25:20And I want to see how both of them do, because I think it will determine whether more bigs
25:25get drafted high or not.
25:27And I'm really interested to see Edie because, um, with that team, with John Morant back,
25:35you know, John only played, I think it was nine games last year.
25:38Remember they were out Desmond Bain missed 40 games, smart, smart, miss games.
25:44Now you got a big, and how are they going to utilize it?
25:48How, how are they going to, uh, and, and, and again, what's jog going to look like this
25:53year?
25:54I mean, the guy that we were talking about a few years ago is like, John, Luca, Tate,
25:58like those were like the trio that we were talking about as the face of the league.
26:03So I can't wait to see how they utilize Edie.
26:05Is he a starting center?
26:07Is he just a guy who plays 12, 15 minutes coming off the bench?
26:11I think that's hard to imagine with, with using a ninth pick overall.
26:15Yeah, it is.
26:17And, um, I I'm with you on that one.
26:19Very definitely.
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