"He Would Crush Their Heads With A Rock" | Can You Solve It? S02E01: The Stoneman Murders
It's 4 a.m. in 1985, a woman's screams were heard on a pavement near Gandhi Market at King's Circle, Bombay...
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00:00At 4am 1985, a woman's screams were heard on a pavement near the Gandhi market at King's Circle.
00:10She had turned her head to the side and opened her eyes and she saw blood.
00:16The man next to her, his head was smashed by a rock.
00:30Welcome to Can You Solve It? Asian Crime Case Edition, where we look more into the chilling
00:38mysteries of unsolved cases and also talk about some of the theories behind them.
00:46My name is Abigail and today we have Roween here together with us.
00:49Hello!
00:50And we will be covering a case that happened in India.
00:55It's a serial killer case.
00:57So let me give you a bit of a background on this case.
01:00It happened in Bombay.
01:03Okay.
01:03So now it's known as Mumbai but at the time it's called Bombay.
01:06All right.
01:07And the case actually happened during 1985 all the way to 1987.
01:14So two years.
01:15Okay.
01:15Basically as you heard what I said just now, right?
01:18Yeah.
01:18The man's head got smashed.
01:20So what the assailant would do is he would hunt down or he or she or they or them, not sure.
01:26But the assailant would hunt down unsuspecting victims, right?
01:32Meaning people who actually sleep on the streets.
01:35This assailant would hunt them down and what he would do, right?
01:40He would purposely go and find areas that are dark.
01:45Of course.
01:46People who are alone.
01:47All right.
01:48When there's no one.
01:49Okay.
01:49And what he would do is he would crush their heads with a rock.
01:55So it's a boulder.
01:57Do you know what's a boulder?
01:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:59I mean it's a massive rock, I guess.
02:01Yeah.
02:02It weighs up to almost as much as 30 kg.
02:0630 kg?
02:0730 kg of rock and then he goes and like lugs it around and then try to look for homeless people.
02:13Do you think you are able to carry a 30 kg rock?
02:17Okay, look.
02:1830 kg maybe I can carry in one like in one squat and lift, you know?
02:23But then not to like, you know, carry it around the streets.
02:27Right.
02:28Yeah.
02:28And like dropping it on people's head.
02:31No, I don't think I can do that.
02:32Yeah, just imagine if that weight is dropped on your head.
02:36How heavy that would...
02:38I mean, obviously you will get crushed a hundred percent.
02:41Of course.
02:42Right.
02:42I mean, yeah, especially if it's dropped from a height.
02:45So, all right.
02:46Okay.
02:46Yeah, yeah.
02:47So this is how the killer actually got his name.
02:51The Stone Man.
02:53The Stone Man.
02:54The Stone Man.
02:55The Stone Man.
02:56Yeah.
02:57As opposed to the Stone Man.
03:00Sorry.
03:00So at first, the police thought that it was just a theft case in the beginning.
03:04When it first happened, like a theft case gone wrong, you know, like...
03:08Okay, so wanting to run away.
03:10Yeah, maybe he wanted to...
03:11The thief wanted to steal but then so happened the guy woke up, was alerted by it.
03:16So he's like, oh no, what do I do?
03:18Get the rock from the side and like dump it on his head or something like that.
03:21How convenient a 30kg rock, just, you know.
03:24You know.
03:25Yeah, that's what the police thought at first.
03:26Okay.
03:27But then, what happened was, slowly, slowly, more and more cases started to happen.
03:33The same thing.
03:34How often did this happen though?
03:36That happened in a span of two years.
03:38Two years, how many?
03:39Yeah, so we will get to that.
03:40Oh, okay.
03:41Yes.
03:42After the sixth case that happened in Bombay, that's where the police start to see a pattern.
03:51After the sixth case of a head being crushed by a massive rock.
03:55Yeah, I guess it's also because they were street sleepers.
04:01So like, you know.
04:01Ah, like homeless people.
04:03Homeless people, so no one really bothered and cared.
04:07Ah, okay, got it.
04:08Yeah, so actually there was a breakthrough moment, right?
04:14There could have been a breakthrough moment because there was this one man,
04:18one night he was sleeping at the side of the streets.
04:22Okay.
04:22And he felt, he was semi-conscious, so half asleep, half awake.
04:28And he heard noises.
04:30He actually felt someone step on his shoulder.
04:32No way.
04:34And when he opened his eyes, like.
04:36No, the rock just right above his eyes.
04:39Yeah.
04:39No way.
04:40And the person, the assailant, like dropped the rock.
04:44Somehow he managed to move a bit.
04:47So it hit like the side of his head.
04:50Oh my gosh, wow.
04:51But he survived.
04:52Okay.
04:52But still, can you imagine like.
04:54Oh, that's crazy.
04:56I know.
04:56That's crazy that like he was able to dodge.
04:58It's like some Tom Cruise moment right there.
05:00I mean, but yeah, it's like, okay, then what happened?
05:03But he was semi-conscious.
05:05So like, I guess it was adrenaline that was running and whatnot.
05:09I guess after that he was.
05:11Yeah.
05:11Still conscious.
05:12So he wouldn't be awake then.
05:14Yeah.
05:14If not, he wouldn't have lived to tell the tale.
05:17Facts.
05:17Right.
05:18Okay.
05:19But yeah.
05:19So, but because he was semi-conscious.
05:22He actually didn't, couldn't tell who the assailant was.
05:27Like couldn't tell the face of the assailant.
05:29All right.
05:30The police, during the investigations, the police actually managed to determine.
05:34The assailant was actually only operating within a 5km radius.
05:39That's not very wide.
05:41No, not at all.
05:42Very small.
05:42It's a very small area.
05:44And they also determined that it's a tall person.
05:49Okay.
05:49A well-built male.
05:52And someone with lots of physical strength.
05:54I mean, 20kg, right?
05:56Yeah.
05:57It's quite self-explanatory.
05:59I see.
06:00I guess.
06:00Why does he have to be tall though?
06:02Because short guys can't drop that.
06:05I mean, true.
06:06You have a point there.
06:07You have a point there.
06:08Maybe physics, the taller you are, the heavier.
06:12Like they need the momentum to sort of like just swing it down, right?
06:16Yeah.
06:17Right.
06:17That makes sense.
06:18I mean, physics, right?
06:19Again.
06:20Yeah.
06:21So.
06:22Man.
06:22In one of the things that the police did actually do as well was send out a team.
06:27And they were undercover cops.
06:30So, they slept on the streets.
06:32Oh, wow.
06:32Like.
06:33Leer him out.
06:34Yeah.
06:34That's what he did.
06:36But the assailant outsmarted them because no one showed up.
06:40Nothing happened.
06:42And on top of that, what made it worse was on the rocks, there were no fingerprints.
06:49No other eyewitnesses.
06:51Nothing.
06:52So, it was basically like.
06:54So, it's basically like a gym bro, you know, with his workout gloves.
06:57And then he's like carrying that.
06:58A sick one.
06:59I mean, yeah.
06:59A sick and twisted.
07:01Sick in the head.
07:02Yeah.
07:02Yeah.
07:02Kind of gym bro doing all these things.
07:05But then how did you.
07:06Like you said that the cops outsmarted.
07:09Sorry, the assailant, the bad guy here outsmarted the cops.
07:13But maybe he was just.
07:14He was like, yeah, you know what?
07:15I've done enough for now.
07:17And I just want to take a break.
07:18But he continued murdering after that though.
07:22Understand.
07:22Understand.
07:23So, in Bombay itself, a total of 12 murders happened.
07:28And he was suspected to be the doing of the stone man.
07:31Because of how similar the cases were.
07:34Everything actually stopped in 1987.
07:38Two years later.
07:39Okay.
07:39Yeah.
07:40But just two years later, 1989.
07:464th June to be exact.
07:484th June 1989.
07:50An exact style of murder happened again.
07:55Oh my gosh.
07:55But this time it wasn't in Bombay.
07:59This time it was in Kolkata.
08:01Kolkata.
08:02Kolkata.
08:03Sorry.
08:04It happened in Kolkata.
08:05And if you know India's map.
08:08Bombay is like here.
08:09Or Mumbai is here.
08:10And Kolkata is, wait.
08:12Oh, the other way around.
08:13But they are on different sides.
08:16Okay.
08:17Of India.
08:18The map.
08:18Okay.
08:19And an estimate of 2050 kilometers away from each other.
08:25Wow.
08:26So, this time in Kolkata.
08:29In just six months.
08:31Another 13 murders were committed.
08:34Oh my gosh.
08:35So, total it was like 25.
08:38Well, it did say the estimate is around 13 to 26 people.
08:43Understand?
08:44Yeah.
08:44Again, the same thing.
08:45The victims' heads were crushed by the rocks while they were sleeping on the streets.
08:50This time the investigation, they actually went to a...
08:53They kind of...
08:55I guess they were more into it.
08:56So, they started searching for suspicious looking persons.
09:01Oh.
09:02Wow.
09:03For questioning.
09:04Okay.
09:04All right.
09:04And when they did that, the killings actually stopped.
09:08So, like it could be because...
09:09So, means that they maybe they caught someone.
09:12Yeah.
09:12Okay.
09:12Right.
09:13But because there was not enough evidence.
09:15No choice.
09:15They had to let them go.
09:17Oh.
09:18Yeah.
09:18Because, I mean, there's no fingerprints.
09:20So, what can you do?
09:21Like you cannot do anything.
09:22And I suppose at that time there wasn't any like CCTVs to be put on the streets.
09:27I mean, 1989, I doubt that.
09:31Even if there was, it would be like grainy and blurry.
09:35I mean, CCTV nowadays are also grainy and blurry.
09:38That's true.
09:38I cannot imagine last time.
09:40Yeah.
09:41Probably it would have been even worse.
09:42Exactly.
09:44Yeah.
09:44And another thing that the police also suspected was that it could be done
09:51or the assailant could be a mentally ill person.
09:56Of course.
09:56That's the easy way out, right?
09:58Just blame it on the mentally disabled.
10:00Sure.
10:00I mean, yeah.
10:02So, they zeroed in on the suspects who were like a bit like lunatics or like mad people.
10:09But at the end of the day, it was still a dead end.
10:12Because, I mean, no evidence.
10:14Okay.
10:15Yeah.
10:16So, at the end, because all the targets were like random people,
10:23there was no specific type that the assailant was going for.
10:27Or maybe it's certain, like they wear a certain style.
10:33There was nothing about it.
10:34So, the police were never able to identify or trace back to who the killer or killers are.
10:43Right.
10:43Now, why I say the killers.
10:45So, now let's go into our theories, right?
10:49Interesting.
10:49Let's go.
10:50So, the first theory was believed that the Bombay case and the Kolkata case are actually connected.
10:59So, they suspect that it was committed by the same person.
11:04Even if it's not connected, even if it's not committed by the same person,
11:09they suspected it to be connected in some way.
11:12Some people believe that it was actually a copycat case.
11:16Okay.
11:17Yeah.
11:17So, maybe the guy, you know, saw the things happening in Bombay and he was like,
11:23or he or she was like, oh, um.
11:26Inspired.
11:27Yeah, I'm inspired.
11:29I want to feel that thrill or whatever, right?
11:33Yeah.
11:33But there was no, I mean, because there was no proof that the case were connected.
11:40So, they couldn't actually pinpoint whether it was done by a single person or,
11:44Yeah.
11:44Like, you know, two people.
11:45That's one of the theories.
11:47And I can imagine that at that time, I mean, especially with crimes that are happening to
11:52people who are less, how do you say, less privileged or less protected.
11:59I mean, people wouldn't put in so much effort to go and investigate, right?
12:04So, I think that's what I hate about this.
12:07But yeah, please go into the second theory.
12:10Yeah.
12:10So, the second theory is more into the motives of the killer.
12:16Not so much on who they think the killer is.
12:18Right.
12:18But the motives of the killer.
12:20So, they suspect that the killer was actually motivated by a spiritual reasoning.
12:27I mean, not to say that is justifiable.
12:29Like, it's not.
12:31But many had believed that it was a human sacrifice to bring in fortune.
12:40So, who are the people who are theorizing this?
12:43So, like, the police, the netizens.
12:47I saw some on Reddit as well who commented on it.
12:51You know, like, lots of people.
12:53Because, you know, I guess India is a pretty spiritual.
12:59Spiritual.
13:00They have spiritual people, sort of.
13:04So, not too sure.
13:06Yeah, I mean, a lot of spiritual practitioners, I suppose, in the country itself.
13:12But like, what's the connection between these killings and bringing in fortune though?
13:16You know what I mean?
13:17Right.
13:18Okay, because to further fill this theory, what happened is,
13:23the killings actually only took place on Tuesdays and Sundays.
13:27Oh.
13:29Okay, so, and these two days are actually ruled by the gods of...
13:34Sorry, I'm probably going to pronounce this wrong.
13:37But gods of Mangal and Shani, which is Mars and Saturn.
13:44Okay.
13:44Right, the two astrological signs that actually is associated with evil, black magic and doom.
13:54And this is based on which sectors or which belief system?
14:00The astrology or...
14:02That's a great question.
14:04Yeah, because I'm like thinking, because in Grecian and also Roman mythology, right?
14:11Like, Mars is also known as the god of war.
14:14So, yeah, it's a pretty, I guess, symbolic day for people to do these kind of bad things.
14:25And now, then let me ask you, like, what are your theories?
14:29Do you think the cases are connected?
14:31What do you think the killers' motives are?
14:34Actually, at this point, if you were to ask me whether the cases are connected,
14:39I would say that, I mean, we can't tell, right?
14:42No evidence, you know, lack of any sort of things that we can follow.
14:47And even it was like, and it's something that happened like more than 20, 25 years ago.
14:54But what I wanted to chip in is the fact that maybe who could have actually been behind this
15:01would be people who just dislike homeless people, right?
15:06And or it could be people with power.
15:09So, I mean, you know, going into some conspiracy here, it could have been the police.
15:14Because we know of so many, I mean, I don't know about you,
15:17but then I know of so many people who actually don't feel empathy towards
15:24people who are less privileged.
15:26You know, it's become a very capitalist society where it's like,
15:29oh, you know, like, I worked hard for this.
15:32I deserve more.
15:32I need more.
15:34And these people don't have anything because they didn't work hard, you know,
15:38or they're just lazy or they're just this kind of people.
15:42And I mean, I've seen and I've heard this kind of people in modern day.
15:48And I suppose it's not that far-fetched that these people existed 20, 30 years ago as well.
15:54So, it could be something that motivated these people to commit this kind of killings.
15:59Even though, I mean, it's just horrible.
16:01It's just horrible that there wasn't any justice brought to these people.
16:07Actually, it's funny how you brought the police up, right?
16:11Like, you say it could be the police like they are doing
16:14because there was actually a movie that came out regarding this case.
16:18I mean, the movie, they did state that it's 60% fictional and 40% non-fiction.
16:26Right.
16:27But in the movie itself, it did say that the police were the ones behind it, right?
16:36Wow, as a way to like, I don't know, clean the streets?
16:42I'm not too sure but they did dive in into the like, again, the spiritual side of things.
16:48Something about the police and the spiritual side of things.
16:52Okay.
16:52I mean, you can watch it but people did say that it's not accurate.
16:58And the movie actually got a lot of fire for it because of
17:03them bringing the police into the whole storyline and whatnot.
17:07But then, were there any sort of like, you know, protests?
17:10Or was there any sort of like, call to action from any, I don't know,
17:14organizations of people that are trying to be like,
17:16hey, you know, like, this is crazy.
17:18There's like 12 dead people on the streets, right?
17:23I mean, in total, yeah, 26 people across India, you know, this is going too much.
17:28You know, every other day, I'm walking down the street on a Tuesday, on a Sunday.
17:32I'm seeing somebody's head smashed with their brains and stuff all over the pavement.
17:37Can we do something about it?
17:39Has there not been any sort of like...
17:42I guess, even if there were any, I don't think it became such a big thing
17:49because, again, they are the homeless people.
17:54No, and or maybe it's covered up by the police.
18:00Who knows?
18:01But people generally do tend to,
18:04or cases that involve homeless people do tend to be put aside.
18:09Yeah, yeah, deprioritized.
18:11Yeah, and people with a higher profile tend to have their cases more publicly known, I guess.
18:20Yeah, yeah.
18:21Actually, this case is not very well known, honestly.
18:24It was quite hard looking, like, finding details and like, researching on this case as well
18:30because, yeah, no one really talks about it.
18:33Yeah, but see this, like, this is the...
18:35I love it because then we sort of go into like the philosophical side of things a little bit.
18:40Whose lives are worth more, right?
18:42This is like the trolley problem.
18:43Have you heard of it before?
18:45You know, like, would you pull the lever and stop this train from killing five homeless people?
18:54And or would you rather it run over one important mayor or dato of the town?
19:01And it's like, how do you justify that?
19:03How do you justify 26 lives being just gone like that?
19:08And then the police haven't done anything.
19:09Nobody's done anything, you know?
19:11At best, it's just that we have people like us talking about it.
19:17Remembering these people who were also people, you know, who had lives.
19:22And was tragically taken away.
19:25So that's messed up.
19:27Don't do that, guys.
19:28Don't do that.
19:29Well, till today, it is still unknown whether the murders were taken place by a single man
19:36or multiple people.
19:38And the killers could still be roaming around the streets waiting to strike again.
19:45Don't do it.
19:46Don't do it.
19:47Thank you for listening to Can You Solve It?
19:50Asian Crime Case Edition on Shock Podcast.
19:53Let us know if you have any theories.
19:55Stay safe.
19:56And we'll see you soon.