What would you say if your child asked, "Mom, why am I different from the other kids?"
Category
🎵
MusicTranscript
00:00We were sitting in a circle with a bunch of other students and out of nowhere he stands up,
00:05he takes his pants off and he starts to hold his private parts.
00:16It's a hard knock life folks and it's Su Lim, your host here today to talk about
00:22the things you want to talk about but we never talk about. So I have today, I have a guest,
00:27how are you? Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you, thank you for having me.
00:31Okay, so I had you come on the show today because you have a very, I find in my opinion,
00:37a very fascinating career. Tell me about your business, tell me about your career.
00:41Okay, so I am the director and founder of Hush The Theatre. We're an inclusive theatre space,
00:49we work with all marginalized communities, the disabled community as well, neurodivergent.
00:57And basically, I'm also a teacher, so I teach drama and I use drama therapy with
01:03neurodivergent and neurotypical kids. So our classes are all inclusive, we have 50-50 of
01:10neurodivergent, neurotypical. So that is the proper term as of 2024 in regards to,
01:19because we're quite used to using special needs, that term which is, you know, that we've been
01:24using it for a long time but now the right term to refer to them is neurodivergent. So the
01:30neurodivergent community consists of those with ADHD, autism, Down syndrome, cerebral palsy,
01:38everything. And the neurotypical community represent those with typically developed brains.
01:46So we have the divergent brains, the diverse brains and the typically
01:55typical brains. Yes, so it's a different way of thinking, a different way of using your brain.
02:02And how long have you been in this industry?
02:07Quite a long time. I started teaching when I was just fresh out of university,
02:12from 21, so now I'm 34, so that would be 12 years. I want to say kudos. I mean, I was myself a teacher
02:24for autistic kids and I can tell you right now the amount of patience that I've learned to build
02:33and the love I have for these kids was another level and you must be another level. So like,
02:41I mean, yeah, tell me about your experiences and how, you know, your challenges with this
02:49business and job. It's funny, actually, a lot of people regard me, because of the job that I do,
02:57regard me as someone who's very patient. But I'm also the kind who can get so frustrated
03:04that I can't open a jar, for example. So it varies, the patience level varies, but with my kids,
03:12it's always there. So I've been working with children with special needs for quite a long
03:20time. But then the reason for that was because I realized there was a need for it in Malaysia.
03:28I guess where it all started, maybe I can tell you a short story and how this started. I studied
03:35drama in the University of Exeter in England and when I did, they offered a module called
03:41Applied Drama and it was using theatre with marginalized groups. So one of the groups that
03:48I was presented with was a group of autistic children. At this moment, I had never had an
03:55experience with someone who had autism. I didn't know what autism was. I only knew the very vague,
04:02oh, they don't give you eye contact, you know, that very simple fact.
04:06The textbook.
04:07Yes, the textbook, you know, that were thrown around. So that's pretty much all I knew about it.
04:12And I went into this project not knowing anything and not necessarily researching anything as well.
04:19And when I started this class with this group of autistic kids, my first idea was, okay, you know
04:27what, we're going to hide the kids because they have autism. They're not going to feel comfortable
04:33being in front of an audience. So again, that's just my, you know, oh, this is what people say.
04:39So it must be true. They just, let's hide them. So my idea was to do a puppet show. So to hide
04:45them with a puppet screen and get them to just use their hands and do this show. So in the end,
04:51the audience came, we had the show. And as I was about to walk out to kind of give a final speech,
04:57one of my autistic students, he's about seven years old, he heard the audience clapping and
05:04he actually burst through the puppet stage. He broke it in half. It was made of, you know,
05:10just paper. He broke it in half. He ran in front of the audience and he like, he was like, yay.
05:16And you know, everybody was clapping and he started bowing and bowing and he just soaked up all that
05:21energy and all those claps from the audience. And that is when I told myself, I was like,
05:26you don't know anything about it. You have no, it's, we need to get those preconceived
05:33notions about what autism is, what Down syndrome is out of our heads. So even something as simple
05:38as, oh, you know, Down syndrome people are really happy all the time. That's not true. They go
05:43through all the emotions that everybody does. You know, for example, like when I teach my other kids,
05:51I'll say those with Down syndrome have, they go through all the emotions. They can be happy and
05:57sad. And just because they look happy doesn't mean you can say whatever you want to them or be rude
06:02or, you know. They're humans. They're humans, exactly. Yeah. And going through that experience,
06:09what made you take the next step to go, okay, this is what, like, I love doing this. Like,
06:14I want to carry on. I think it was that idea that I didn't know anything about it. And the
06:20needing to get that knowledge, understand them better, because that's when I learned like,
06:26oh, actually, nobody has researched or put in the effort to understand what autism really is,
06:33because we're all just playing on these preconceived notions that other people tell
06:38us or they have bad eye contact or they don't, you know, it's just, it shows a lack of awareness,
06:45I guess. And that was kind of the push. And I thought, hey, I think this is something that
06:51is missing in Malaysia. And I think we need to. Yeah, you're giving awareness, right.
06:57Okay, so we're trying to give awareness to the parents and to people around us. But what about
07:02the kids themselves? How do you, do they know and how, if they know, how do you tell them or how do
07:11you, you know, to approach them that they're a special need? Okay, so in terms of Hajj the
07:20theatre, when we do inclusive classes, the best way is open communication, honest, open
07:27communication. I have this thing about, you know, in current times, everybody is afraid to say
07:36certain things because, oh, it might be offensive, or it might be wrong. And I think that kind of
07:40stops people from asking questions. And I think being curious and asking questions needs to be
07:47kept alive. I feel like it's... So you don't consider it rude that somebody's asking?
07:54If they don't know, if the knowledge isn't present, and they're asking, you know, hey,
07:58how do I refer to you? For example, someone in a wheelchair, do I call you disabled? Is that
08:06something, a term that you are comfortable with? So it's also opening that, you know,
08:12question like, what can I refer to you as? What are you comfortable with? Are you comfortable
08:16with orang kurang upaya, for instance, you know? Some people don't like that term,
08:21orang kurang upaya, because it means the less fortunate. But some people do. Some people find
08:27strength in the term OKU. So it's always important to ask someone, how do you like to be referred?
08:33Okay, I was about to say, like, how do you know? But again, regarding the student themselves,
08:42how do you let them know that they are special needs? Like, do you treat them any different? Do
08:48you tell them, hey, you're different? So therefore, you know, I'm sure some people cannot help but to
08:57stare, for example. How do you have the child, you know, understand that, you know, how do you
09:05help the child deal with something like this, for example? I realized I went on a bit of a
09:09tangent earlier. So I'm going to answer this question very directly. How you can help is by
09:15explaining, for example, to a child. Let's say you have a neurotypical child and a neurodivergent one,
09:22both in the same space. What I like to do is I like to say, we're all different, right?
09:29How do you think we're different? And children are very intuitive. So you know, you get answers like,
09:35oh, teacher, I'm tall, or teacher, I'm short, teacher, I wear glasses, teacher, I don't wear
09:39glasses. So I think it's very important to show them that being different is okay. Okay. Yeah,
09:46I think there's, yes. I think even regardless, we tell our kids this all the time. I grew up in a,
09:54myself and my children grow up in a very different multicultural, you know, environment.
10:01And so we always told being different is okay. It's actually, there's nothing wrong with it.
10:06And, and they're okay. Yeah. So and as yourself, like what advice do you give to parents, for
10:13example? I mean, parents, I want to say probably have the most challenging, you know, role here is
10:20that they have to, they don't know, what do you tell parents to say to their kids? Or how?
10:28There are a few things. You are wonderful for who you are, I feel like that,
10:37implying that every day, to a child that is neurodivergent is so important. There's this
10:44activity that I used to do with my students, where I would go where I would tell them five things that
10:49I love about them every day, every day without fail, to all 12 of them, I would go through,
10:55you know, each one, one by one, I would sit them in my office, and I would tell them five things
11:02that I really love about them. All my answers are always honest. If they did something funny that
11:07day, I would, you know, bring that up. And I would say you made me laugh so much. It was, you know,
11:12such a great moment. And I never lie, I never lie to my students, but I do give them five things
11:18that I love about them every single day. So I think it's also that identifying what those things
11:25are throughout the day, you know, it's also coming up with a list like, oh, this, you know, and it
11:30makes me a better person by doing that, noticing lovely things about the people around me. So it
11:36helps me, it helps them. So I think it's a daily, it's actually a good habit, in general, whether
11:43you're doing it with your children, your friend, your partner. I have to ask a very curious
11:49question. If you, if you're asking the, you know, you're telling them the things that you love about
11:54them, do you do the opposite? Actually, I haven't. That's a good question. I haven't. Some of them
12:01also, I don't like this term, I really don't, but they haven't come up with a better term for it.
12:06But some students of mine are non-verbal. So a lot of them show love back to me, I guess, by
12:14holding my hand or, you know, so I take those things as things they love about me, I presume.
12:20Yeah, right. Oh, so they're non-verbal. So you, going back to the question of if the things that
12:28they can improve on, for example, do you tell them little things like this, like that you could do
12:34this better? Yeah, very honest. Yes, very honest. Okay. I've had a student before have a meltdown,
12:42he has autism, he had a meltdown, he's six foot and he's huge, huge, muscular. And he was sitting
12:49opposite me and I, he was, he kept getting the answer to something wrong. And I wasn't, I didn't
12:56say, oh, this is wrong. And you, you know, I didn't say any of that, but he was getting frustrated
13:01with himself. And because of that, he actually stood up, he flipped my office table to the side,
13:08he threw my laptop, so my laptop broke in half. I had a coffee mug as well. I still remember that
13:14coffee mug, coffee went flying everywhere in my office and he grabbed my neck and pushed me
13:21against the wall. And I really, in that moment, I thought, I thought this is it. Oh my gosh.
13:27He's, well, now he would be 27. So back then, maybe 20, 21. All right. So he basically had a
13:35bit of a tantrum. A meltdown. Yes. So we don't, we don't use the word tantrum. So there's also
13:41that language. You know, there's also, yeah, I'm sorry. It's okay, fair. Because there's, this is
13:49all stuff I had to, you know, had to learn over the years. And this is a good thing to teach
13:54audience too. Maybe I can go into that then a little bit. The difference between a meltdown
14:00and a tantrum. A tantrum is when a child looks at you to see your response because they're trying
14:05to get your attention. So if I go throw my, you know, water bottle to the side and go, I don't
14:12want it. And normally children will look to you to see your response because they want that
14:16attention back. Interesting. But for a child who has autism, who is having a meltdown, they don't
14:22care about your response because they can't control it. Okay. Yes. They can't control. And
14:26they will just continue. So how do you, how did, how did you deal with that situation by the way?
14:30This situation. So he had his hand around my neck, I remember. And I, I just looked him straight in
14:36the eye. I guess in moments like that, you have to be a little bit fearless. Looked him straight
14:42in the eye and I was in a very calm tone. I said, take your hand off and sit down. And from then on,
14:50actually, because I was quite stern as well with him. And I said, if there's something wrong, sit.
14:55And sorry, my teacher voice is coming out now. It's two very different voices.
15:02No, I'm sure. I'm sure. It's just like when I'm a Pilates instructor.
15:05Yeah, right. And I'm just a normal friend. Yeah. Okay.
15:10And so I, yeah, I'm very stern. I was very stern. I made him sit down. Of course I have to give him
15:15water. The next thing you do is check their heart rate to see if it slows down.
15:20So you told him in a very stern manner, sit down.
15:23Yes, sit down. And then he listened. And this was seven, eight years ago. So
15:29today I am the only teacher that he listens to. So there's even a video that I kept where he had
15:37a meltdown and I, you have to stand over them. Sometimes you got to put your, it's very hard
15:44to explain this, but if they're sitting down, you put your knees over to lock them in position,
15:49stand like you're in control. You're the one in control and that they do listen to you.
15:55But in moments like that, it is very difficult because do we, how do I say this? It could be
16:04very dangerous because they're not, they don't know. Also he's six foot.
16:10Yes. Six foot. Muscular. How do you know? Exactly. But also like you, so that incident happened,
16:19you told obviously the parents about it. Yes. Usually how do parents react?
16:27With his parents in particular, it's not a lot of shock, I guess, because it does occur
16:34at home. It does. It does occur at home. They themselves know how to handle meltdowns. And
16:42they're okay with you being more stern on them. Yes, of course. They're very okay with that,
16:46but I make sure that I tell their parents. Of course, I don't touch them. I don't lay a hand
16:51on my kids ever. I use voice, just my voice only. And I also show a lot of love and affection. So
17:00I am stern when I need to be stern, but I'm also very affectionate and kind with you. And I say
17:08the right things and I compliment you when you did something right. And I think they need that
17:13kind of balance because those children or adults with special needs, those who are neurodivergent
17:21tend to not have, they have one or the other. They're either over coddled or they are totally
17:28ignored. It's one or the other. This is just how it is. Or they yell that and slap and there's no
17:35balance. There are times where I recently shared my experience with you that some parents deny the
17:43fact that there's something wrong with their child, their special needs child, because they
17:48just refuse whether they're trying to pretend everything's okay or whatnot. And how does that
17:56affect the child and the people around them when they are in denial? It's very difficult
18:06if you're in denial when they are at a very young age, because that is the time they need
18:11the most help. So any parent, I suppose, being in denial when the child is very young is not
18:18going to be helpful for them when they become older. So I guess it's just being okay. I guess
18:26it needs a little bit more awareness because there's this very negative feeling when someone
18:32says, I have autism or I have Down syndrome and they're automatically disregarded or they're not
18:39a part of society anymore. And I think that that scares parents, you know. And little do they know
18:45that if anything, I mean, I've met some insanely smart autistic kids. Insanely smart. I mean,
18:55they're so out of this world. I know that some kids, it's not a negative thing, is what I'm
19:05saying. Has there been an incident where, you know, that you had to, I think you shared one
19:13incident with me with a child that pulled his pants down? Yep, yep. I can. Before I share that,
19:21actually, you just brought me to a quite a cool point. It's with autism in particular,
19:29because I know we're talking about the whole neurodivergent community, but with autism in
19:34particular, it goes either way. So there are those that play the piano very well and that do this
19:42very well. So an audience would look at that and go, whoa, autism is really cool, you know, or
19:48this child with autism can play the piano, play the, you know, do this activity really well. I
19:53had a student once who memorised every military equipment in the world and vehicle and drew all
20:01of them and labelled all of them correctly. So they are, yes, there is that aspect, but there are those
20:06also who don't have those talents. So it's very common for public to go, ah, autism means you will
20:15be shunned from society. That's one view of it. And the other view is the whole big extreme, is the,
20:21oh, they're so magnificent and smart and they play the piano and they play this beautifully. No one
20:27is talking about the middle between those two. So I think there is a middle, there absolutely is a
20:32middle. And I think there's also this pressure that parents feel when their child is autistic
20:39and they push them to, they sort of put them on a pedestal a little bit, which I think can be unfair
20:44to people when you do that, but put them on a pedestal and force them to, you know, play the
20:52piano and play it really well. And, you know. But do you think it's a parent's way to, like a
20:58defense mechanism to be like, yeah, my child's autistic, but, and then they, I mean, I know some
21:06parents that actually like bring their kids, they overwhelm them with a lot of activities, like
21:12swimming and running and, you know, physical activities to make up for the fact that they're
21:18autistic. Do you think it's a good or bad thing? Like, you know. I feel like you said it yourself.
21:24I feel like it's to make up for the fact that they're autistic, right? I think that in itself
21:29is the error. It's seeing it as one whole thing rather than a separate, this is what you have,
21:38and therefore we need to correct. It's looking at it as if you need to correct a mistake, but that
21:43is not what you need to do. We're not trying to correct a mistake that is who you are, that is a
21:49part of you, and accept, yes. And all it is, is you learn differently. That is all it is. It's,
21:56you know, your brain is developed differently. So you actually said it yourself. That's a great
22:02point. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure. But yeah, let's go back to the story. I was very
22:07fascinated. Sorry, again. It's okay. I'm so sorry. You actually recently told me that you found out
22:13something about yourself recently. Also, that is, I have ADHD. Diagnosed with it. And that is why,
22:22sorry everybody, this is me looking at the camera. Like, sorry, I'm going around in circles, but
22:27that is the reason. Nowadays, I want to say it's a very common term that is thrown around.
22:37I mean, sometimes I do wonder if I have it because I'm like, okay, sometimes I'm very forgetful.
22:43My husband's always like, okay, you forgot something again. You forgot to put this in the
22:47fridge. You forgot to put that back. You know, you open a can of something and then you kind
22:51of just leave it and walk away and do something else. What do you, I mean, how did you find out
22:57that you were? I had a very difficult, I would call them, I think it's something more serious,
23:08but it was mood swings, I guess that's the best way to describe it. A lot of very high highs and
23:14a lot of very low lows. And the low lows were very bad to the point where I wouldn't eat,
23:22I wouldn't get out of bed for five days, was affecting my job, everything. And I knew
23:30something was wrong. Actually, for my whole life, I knew something was quite, something was not quite
23:35right. Really? That is very interesting. For sure. And for a long time, I always felt I don't fit in
23:44anywhere. And also, something is off. Not necessarily something is wrong, but something
23:50is definitely off. It took me 34 years to go to a therapist and figure it out. And I did,
23:58I did get a diagnosis in the end. And that's when I was like, oh, my God, it makes sense.
24:02You're actually happy? Yes. You weren't like, sad, disappointed or upset with yourself?
24:07No. I answered more questions. For sure. Yes, definitely. And everything makes sense now. So
24:14when it makes sense, it makes my life a lot easier. So I can understand, hey, this is because
24:21of the ADHD. So okay, now you can take a step back. Whereas before this, because I didn't know
24:26what it was, I just kind of flip out. It's like, you know, a reason why we keep returning back to
24:33the story with the boy. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. So, you know, since the beginning of
24:41the episode, I've been like, okay, what is this story? What is this story? Because I told her not
24:45to tell me because I wanted it to be a surprise, you know? And I've been the whole time like,
24:50tell me the story. Okay, now, can we do it now? Okay, so what happened was a student of mine,
25:01he's 16. So he's at that age developing, you know, and we were sitting in a circle with a bunch of
25:09other students. And out of nowhere, he stands up, he takes his pants off, and he starts to
25:16hold his private parts and move his hand up and down. Am I allowed to?
25:23Okay, these are stories. These are, you know, these are, yeah, go ahead. So he was doing that
25:31in front of the other kids. And so the kids were there, like eight or nine, standing in a circle.
25:37And so I actually, in that moment, I thought, hang on, I can't say the wrong thing. I knew
25:43I needed to say something. But I also knew I can't say the wrong thing. So what's the wrong?
25:49Exactly. So we'll get to that shortly. And I immediately pulled him into the bathroom.
25:54And I closed the door. I said, just for now, can you put your pants back up? And let's,
26:00you know, talk for a moment. And I told him that what he was doing is not wrong. And I think that's
26:07important. What you are doing is wrong, because it's in public. You're doing this, this action in
26:14public. And I think that's really important. Because when you, because doing that is normal
26:20human behavior, we have to be very careful not to go, that's totally wrong, put it back, you know,
26:27zip up your pants, don't do that ever again. Because the moment you do that, you don't teach
26:31them that they're going to find that it's a natural part of human life. And if I had said
26:38the wrong thing, and if I had scolded him for doing what he did, I believe that would have
26:43made him a lot more aggressive. And I think, you know, a lot more aggressive and a lot...
26:48Do you think it's because he would have felt embarrassed? He's like angry that you made him
26:53feel embarrassed kind of? That's right. And the only thing I was trying to get across was that
26:59it's wrong to do it in public. If this is something you need to do, you need to do it in
27:04private. And did he understand? He did. He did. He did understand. He responded to it. And he
27:11responded very well. Because in the past, not in the past, but if I had handled that differently,
27:19I think, you know, a number of things could have happened. He could have gone back out and done it
27:25again. He could have... I feel they tend to push back when you say, don't do that. Don't do that.
27:33Because they're so used to that. They're so used to everyone around them going, don't do that. Put
27:36it back. Don't touch this. Don't do that. And there's so much of don't, don't, don't. So you
27:40become like... So you have to be careful with the way you phrase things, basically. Exactly. And not
27:45like, immediately react to their, you know, don't do this. The word don't is sensitive. Yes, that's
27:53right. A little bit. And I'm just curious, how did the other students react? Were they...
28:00Like, you know, actually, that's... Did you talk to them about it after? That's a good question. So I
28:05did. Once I sent, I sent him home first, because I felt I didn't want to pull him back into class
28:11after that incident. So I sent him home. And I spoke to the students. And I explained that this
28:15is a very natural part of life. Everybody does it. Everybody comes of age. It's... I used...
28:24After that lesson, actually, we used pictures and all of that to teach them. So it kind of
28:30actually moves on to a very sensitive topic that is not spoken about in Malaysia. It's
28:37sex education for children and... Sorry, for adults with special needs. Okay. Non-existent
28:47in Malaysia. I'm sure it's extremely taboo. No one wants to talk about it. Definitely.
28:52And it is very prominent in the US, in the UK. They actually teach them the right ways and things
28:58like that. And I think it's important to do that here, not because of anything else. I know a lot
29:04of people are going to scrutinize me for saying this, but not for anything else, except for the
29:09fact that they know that their body is their own. That's it. And they know not to get in situations
29:16where someone can come and touch them and they can't respond back. So it prevents a lot of
29:21abusive situations. They know right touch from wrong touch. They know, you know...
29:25They know the ownership of their body. Yes. And it will lower the abuse count that is
29:32happening right now in Malaysia. I mean, it's awful. Yeah, because I just actually recently
29:38learned that the vulnerable ones get taken advantage of completely. And I mean, in my eyes,
29:44I mean, obviously, I don't have... It's hard for me to believe this, you know, because it's like,
29:49why, why, why, you know? But yeah, okay. And then... I actually see... I've seen this before
29:57happen right in front of my eyes. When one boy with autism, he is such a lovely student.
30:05He was happily jumping. He was jumping because he was happy. So he was jumping up and down and up
30:11and down. And the teacher in that room, which wasn't me, I was watching the class. The teacher
30:16in that room didn't like that behavior and actually, like, pushed him against the wall
30:24and hurt him. Pushed him against the wall to stop him from jumping and hurt him. And that...
30:31Why? What is the reason for that? There's... You had no right to do that. You have absolutely...
30:38I mean, you have to explain to the parent why you pushed, you know, their child against the wall.
30:44I don't understand that. So I feel like... If it was a quote-unquote normal child,
30:50what would they do? They would just be like, hey, don't do that. Exactly. Right? Yeah.
30:54Yeah. And I never thought of it that way at all. Yeah. And I think they get pushed around
30:59and bullied a lot because no one teaches them how to fight back. No one is showing them that,
31:05hey, actually, you can say no, you know. I feel like there's a lot of internal bullying as well
31:12that goes on in terms of not giving them the choice of what to eat, for example, or...
31:18I mean, there's so many instances. Actually, I'm having a hard time trying to pick one, but
31:28not giving them choices in general. So you have to go. You have to sit here. You have to stand
31:33there. You need to... Oh, no, they're asking you to sit down, sit down, sit down. And there's just...
31:37Their life is just constant instructions by other people because there's no... It's not taught to
31:45them how to say yes or no, for example. They're just taught to listen. They're taught to listen
31:50and that's it. They're taught what to do. Yes. They're not given choices. Yes. And so what I'm
31:54hearing is that even though there are special needs, they're still human. Yeah. And you still
31:59have to treat them like... I think what tends to happen is with children with special needs,
32:07not just children, but even adults, they're always treated like children. They're not spoken
32:11to in a normal manner. They're always spoken to as if they're always five or two years old.
32:19Yeah. Actually, you would know this teaching autistic kids, but even... I don't know if you've
32:25ever encountered this, but when parents talk about the child in front of them. So I get this a lot.
32:33I can't tell you how many times I get this, but, hey, my boy, don't talk. He doesn't talk. Why?
32:38Why like this? Why like this? In front of the child. And I think that's very... It can be very
32:45damaging to the child that is hearing this and is unable to fight back and to say, actually,
32:54I do understand what you're saying. It's just that I don't have the ability to respond right now.
32:59And it hurts their confidence, too, as if, you know. Yeah. So that happens. That happens a lot,
33:06actually. Yeah. And we forget, again, forgetting that they're human, that they can talk,
33:12they can make their own choices, they do their own thing. Yeah.
33:15But I think it's important to note also that it's not the parents' fault that these things occur.
33:22They do...
33:23They have to be educated.
33:24They have to be educated, too. It's not their fault.
33:26So do you have workshops or anything?
33:28For parents, not yet, but I'm happy to open one.
33:34I think not just the parents, but family members also don't know how to, you know,
33:41treat this situation as well. They think also, oh, I have to be different. I have to be
33:47like this and like this. When in fact, again, what I'm hearing is just treat it like a normal
33:52situation. You don't have to be any different about it.
33:55Be curious.
33:56Yeah.
33:56Be curious. The best thing you can be.
33:59Yeah. And one last thing is what insights or lessons have you gained that you wish that
34:05you could actually tell parents about this, about the kids to understand about, you know,
34:13how to raise them and how to work with them?
34:16There's quite a broad... There's a lot of answers for this, I guess.
34:21Give me one thing that's on top of your mind.
34:24Top of my mind is send them to inclusive spaces and ask spaces.
34:31Always ask, are you inclusive? Are you inclusive?
34:34Go to the cinema and ask them, is your space inclusive?
34:38Keep questioning them because the more you question them, the more embarrassed they'll
34:42get and the more they're going to make their spaces inclusive.
34:44Oh, that's a good point. See, I wouldn't have known that.
34:48Yeah. Keep questioning them because why, you know, should your place...
34:53Why doesn't your place have a lift?
34:56Is your theatre only for those that are able to walk up the stairs?
35:01Why, you know, question people all the time, question spaces, question society.
35:07Is your space inclusive? Think about that.
35:09Think about your home. Is your home inclusive?
35:12That's a good point. Yeah.
35:13And one last thing. Can you tell me a little bit more about your space?
35:18Sure.
35:19Tell the audience and the followers and the viewers where it is at.
35:24And, you know, a little bit of, you know, advertising here.
35:27Advertisement. Okay, great. Thank you.
35:29I think a lot of times people don't know where to go.
35:32Yes. Okay. Fair enough.
35:33Yep. I think that's a good point.
35:36I feel in Malaysia, it's very separate.
35:38The two, I feel, you know, we have spaces for those who are neurodivergent.
35:44We do, but they're not inclusive.
35:46They're only for children who are neurodivergent.
35:48And then we have schools where we only have them for those who are neurotypical.
35:52And MOE actually stated that we would be, Malaysia would be inclusive by 2024.
35:59So we're in 2024. We're nowhere near that, unfortunately.
36:03So I think maybe I'll give a little bit of background about what Hush does.
36:08I guess it's a really good space to send your children,
36:12those who are neurodivergent, and more importantly, for those who are neurotypical.
36:17The reason I say that is, I believe this type of education, this talk,
36:25any research done on neurodivergence should be pointed towards
36:30parents with neurotypical children.
36:32And the reason for that is, they need to be educated about autism,
36:38Down syndrome, and all of that, more so than our special needs community.
36:43I 1000% agree.
36:46I think it's so important.
36:50Those are the people we need to educate.
36:51And those are the people we need to reach out to.
36:53Because parents of children with special needs,
36:56those who are neurodivergent, already know.
36:59They are raising a child with special needs.
37:02So a lot of the information that we're sharing today, they already know that.
37:06So I hope this reaches the other audience.
37:09Yeah, and I also feel like it's not one size fits all.
37:12Because sometimes, we're like, oh, my kid's autistic.
37:15Let me Google it.
37:16And it's not just, you know, whatever's on Google is just facts and theoretical.
37:24Every child is different, and you have to treat them differently, right?
37:28But the same at the same time.
37:29Yeah, I totally understand it.
37:32Okay, well, I'm gonna thank you so much for coming on.
37:36I really appreciate you for sharing your experiences, especially.
37:41It's a hard knock life, guys.
37:43And I really hope you enjoyed that one.
37:45Thank you again.
37:46And we'll see you next time.