MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman are back with more from the CES show as they chat with XPeng Motors President & Vice Chairman
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00:00:00 (upbeat music)
00:00:01 - Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.
00:00:04 (upbeat music)
00:00:07 - Hello there and welcome to another episode
00:00:17 of The Inevitable.
00:00:19 My name is Ed Loh, I'm the head of editorial at Motor Trend
00:00:21 and this is Motor Trend's vodcast
00:00:22 about the future of mobility.
00:00:24 I'm joined as always by Johnny Lieberman.
00:00:28 - Hello.
00:00:29 - Influencer, senior features editor,
00:00:32 and this podcast, vodcast, is brought to you
00:00:35 by the all-electric Nissan Ariya,
00:00:37 inspired by the future, designed for the now.
00:00:39 And we have a great episode.
00:00:42 - This one is wild.
00:00:44 - It's wild, okay.
00:00:45 - This is sort of like, we probably should have done this
00:00:47 like 10 years ago, but what did we know?
00:00:50 - What did we know?
00:00:51 We've been trying really hard to get folks like this
00:00:54 on the podcast.
00:00:54 This one, like the last one and the one
00:00:56 that's coming next week,
00:00:58 these were all recorded at CES
00:01:00 and these are all about basically what's coming
00:01:04 from the Far East.
00:01:05 So we have a president of a Chinese EV manufacturer
00:01:10 and a electric flying car manufacturer in Xpeng,
00:01:16 Dr. Brian Gu from Xpeng.
00:01:18 And then we have with him Jack Chang,
00:01:20 who was actually one of my favorite interviews
00:01:22 I've done in a long time.
00:01:24 From a company that you've never heard of
00:01:26 called Mobility and Harmony, M-I-H.
00:01:28 - Yeah, except that half the things you're looking at
00:01:30 and touching currently by listening to us
00:01:32 was made by his company.
00:01:34 - Yes, made by a company that he was long affiliated with.
00:01:36 And then he's got this huge, long, deep background
00:01:39 with companies you know and love
00:01:40 like Ford and Fiat Chrysler, et cetera, et cetera.
00:01:43 So a lot, there's a lot coming in this episode.
00:01:45 It's really good.
00:01:46 - But before that, we've got--
00:01:47 - We have our question of the week.
00:01:49 - That's right.
00:01:50 - Which is related to this,
00:01:51 which is something we actually in roundabout ways
00:01:54 asked both of these experts, which is Chinese EVs.
00:01:59 We hear a lot about them.
00:02:00 We hear how awesome they are,
00:02:02 how they're gonna come to wipe out.
00:02:03 They're like the asteroid that's coming to get the dinosaurs,
00:02:07 the American dinosaur car companies.
00:02:09 - Yeah.
00:02:10 Are they inevitable in the US?
00:02:12 - Are they inevitable?
00:02:13 When are they coming?
00:02:15 I've been asking, we've been trying to get
00:02:18 different Chinese automotive executives
00:02:20 to sit down and talk with us on record
00:02:22 so that I can ask them this question
00:02:23 because I keep hearing it from all sorts of people.
00:02:27 - I mean, look, when we had Jim Farley,
00:02:28 the president and CEO of Ford Motor Company on,
00:02:31 he, you could tell, spends a good part of his day
00:02:35 thinking about Chinese car companies.
00:02:36 - Yes.
00:02:37 - And Elon Musk, a couple days ago,
00:02:40 said that Chinese car companies
00:02:42 will wipe out domestic car companies
00:02:44 unless we put up protectionist barriers.
00:02:46 - Yes, yes.
00:02:47 Well, I got a lot of former globalist thinkers
00:02:49 thinking about maybe getting a little more national
00:02:52 and throwing up some barriers.
00:02:53 - Yeah.
00:02:54 - How good these vehicles are.
00:02:55 - I think the truth is somewhere in the middle
00:02:57 because I'm old enough to remember
00:02:59 when Detroit was gonna be wiped out entirely by Japan
00:03:02 in the early 90s.
00:03:03 - Japan, Inc., and then Korea.
00:03:05 - Yeah, and it never really happens
00:03:08 because the cars that Americans really like to buy
00:03:12 aren't cars at all.
00:03:13 They're big trucks, they're big SUVs.
00:03:16 Nobody else has done that.
00:03:18 Now, could, if China decided to, build these cars?
00:03:22 I don't know.
00:03:23 - Do we know when they're coming?
00:03:24 We still don't really know, but--
00:03:26 - Actually, we do.
00:03:27 So here's the curve ball.
00:03:28 We know when they're coming, and they're coming this year,
00:03:31 and in fact, they're already here.
00:03:32 And it's a company that you know of called Volvo.
00:03:36 - Yeah.
00:03:37 - Okay, so Volvo is owned by Geely.
00:03:40 It's one of the many brands that Geely owns.
00:03:41 They own Volvo, Polestar, and this new one called Zeker.
00:03:46 - And Lotus.
00:03:47 - And they have a financial controlling interest in Lotus.
00:03:50 - Well, no, no, no, no, no, like that Lotus SUV,
00:03:52 I mean, that's designed in China by Chinese engineers.
00:03:55 - So if you're really curious, the first Chinese EV
00:03:58 you're gonna see in America at scale
00:03:59 will come under the Lotus badge,
00:04:01 not, I'm sorry, under the Volvo badge.
00:04:03 They probably don't like us saying it that way,
00:04:05 but it's true.
00:04:06 - Well, I think it's simultaneous,
00:04:07 'cause I think that Lotus one's also on sale.
00:04:08 It's the Elettra SUV, but it's very different.
00:04:11 So the Volvo has the EX30, which is awesome.
00:04:14 A little mini thing, cheap, really high design.
00:04:17 - But that's the point.
00:04:18 Like the Lotus one, nobody,
00:04:20 very few people listening to us or watching us
00:04:23 will be able to smell the inside of that car.
00:04:24 But this Volvo one, this EX30,
00:04:27 is gonna come in around 35,
00:04:29 supposedly around 30 to $35,000 with the tax incentive.
00:04:34 So that will be the first,
00:04:38 that will probably go down in history
00:04:39 as like the first Swedish/Chinese EV at scale
00:04:43 to come to the US.
00:04:44 - Yeah, I'd be curious how it does.
00:04:45 And also, again, I drove the Lotus,
00:04:48 and it's a 904 horsepower, awesome, awesome EV.
00:04:53 I was shocked by how good it was.
00:04:55 And what I'm hearing, though, is that those vehicles,
00:04:58 and we have somebody who drove the EX30
00:05:00 and said it was actually very good to drive.
00:05:03 That's sort of what all Chinese EVs are like.
00:05:05 So they're capable of making
00:05:07 these very, very high quality products.
00:05:09 They just don't have any distribution network in the US,
00:05:11 but they're in Mexico, they're in Canada,
00:05:13 they're coming to Europe.
00:05:14 - Well, and fun fact, if you're a long-time listener,
00:05:17 you'll remember when we had the color materials expert
00:05:21 from Volvo on, Reka Mina, while we were talking to her,
00:05:25 this is the project, that EX30 is what she was working on.
00:05:27 And they just launched it.
00:05:28 - And I saw it in New York.
00:05:29 - It's amazing.
00:05:30 - It's really, again, high design,
00:05:32 kind of like what Apple does,
00:05:34 where it's a product that everybody can afford
00:05:36 or figure out a way to afford,
00:05:37 but the design is just high end.
00:05:41 And that's what this EX30 looks like.
00:05:43 It's really smart.
00:05:44 And they did stuff, like VW did it with,
00:05:47 what's that thing, the ID4,
00:05:48 where they removed window switches.
00:05:50 But in the VW, you feel insulted by how they do it,
00:05:53 where in the Volvo, it's really slick how they did it.
00:05:57 And you're like, oh, that's smart.
00:05:58 So it's cool, it's very cool.
00:06:00 - So there's the question of the week.
00:06:01 We please keep asking them, shoot them directly to us
00:06:05 in the comments on this video on YouTube.
00:06:08 We like it, we'll send you some swag.
00:06:10 Also, shoot it to Johnny at his Instagram handle,
00:06:13 Johnny Lieberman, or me at Lowdown on Instagram.
00:06:15 Or you can send us an email, motortrend@motortrend.com
00:06:18 with any of your questions, and we'll pick the best ones.
00:06:21 Okay, so let's get into it.
00:06:23 Again, back at CES, we chatted with these two guys,
00:06:26 Cedric Matter Experts, representing a Chinese car company
00:06:31 and one that's sort of like Chinese/Taiwanese.
00:06:33 So first up, you will hear from Dr. Brian Gu of XPeng,
00:06:38 and then followed up by Jack Chang of MIH Mobility in Harmony.
00:06:45 So, let's talk.
00:06:47 Brian Gu, so happy to have you here on the show.
00:06:51 I wanna get into it right away.
00:06:53 You guys dropped something over here
00:06:55 just outside of BlackBerry's booth over here in the XPeng.
00:06:58 The Aero HT?
00:07:00 - Aero HT, yes.
00:07:01 - Okay, that's saying it right, it's not Aero (mimics car)
00:07:04 - And it's a flying car.
00:07:05 - It is flying car, exactly.
00:07:07 - Okay, now, one of your coworkers said,
00:07:11 "Oh yeah, no, the prototype flies
00:07:12 "and it's going into production next year."
00:07:15 Is this true?
00:07:16 - That's true.
00:07:17 We actually are, at ACS, we announced
00:07:20 that we're gonna start taking pre-orders
00:07:22 by the end of this year, and we aim to start delivering
00:07:25 produced products by the end of next year to consumers.
00:07:31 - And you're not kidding, like by the end of 2025,
00:07:33 somebody somewhere will be able to go buy a flying car
00:07:36 that actually flies.
00:07:37 - That's the plan.
00:07:38 - Now, but it's not, well hang on, but it's not,
00:07:41 is it this one or is it the one that I saw
00:07:43 in the booth, the modular?
00:07:45 - It's a modular design one.
00:07:46 - Oh, the six-wheeler.
00:07:47 - The six-wheeler.
00:07:48 - Oh, that's the one I want.
00:07:49 - Yeah, it's a very cool--
00:07:51 - Can we have one?
00:07:52 - Hang on, hang on, we'll get there, we'll get there.
00:07:54 - Ed, your questions don't matter, can we?
00:07:56 I love that, that's the coolest looking thing here.
00:07:58 - Let me set it up, okay, so hopefully,
00:08:00 for people watching the video, we will cut in some footage
00:08:03 of Xpeng's modular electric vehicle
00:08:06 with a miniature, a small helicopter,
00:08:09 two-passenger quad-rotor helicopter
00:08:13 that sits in the back, comes out, and can fly remotely.
00:08:17 Your PR guy said, "Start production by the end of this year,
00:08:22 "taking orders, they will fly, they apparently can fly
00:08:25 "in China or be purchased and flown in China, no problem."
00:08:28 He actually said, "There are certain instances
00:08:30 "where you can fly these things in the US."
00:08:32 You can fly, what class of vehicle is the little helicopter?
00:08:36 - Well, the current plan is to first launch
00:08:40 in the Chinese market, so we have not planned
00:08:43 for any US launch yet.
00:08:46 So all the analysis, the product, the regulatory analysis,
00:08:50 all based on the China market, so that's one.
00:08:53 Secondly is that the reason we think this will be
00:08:57 an easier product to be launched is because this is aimed
00:09:02 to be used in scenarios where this off-road,
00:09:07 it's remote or scenic areas, it's not aimed
00:09:11 to immediately fly over people's head and buildings,
00:09:14 so does not involve urban transportation
00:09:16 in the first instance, so we will slowly get people
00:09:20 used to flying, and now maybe work
00:09:21 with local government municipalities,
00:09:24 come up with a flying zone or designated flying areas,
00:09:27 scenic, lake, river, sand dunes, mountains.
00:09:32 >> Recreational. >> Recreational.
00:09:33 >> Like an ATV, but for the air kind of thing.
00:09:35 >> And then you start getting the opportunity to fly,
00:09:39 that actually is the first step.
00:09:40 >> Right.
00:09:41 >> How long can you fly, what's the duration of,
00:09:43 'cause I heard the vehicle itself can act
00:09:46 as a docking charging station,
00:09:48 but how long is each individual flight?
00:09:50 >> So the vehicle is using the extended range technology,
00:09:54 which is, just imagine this as a charger.
00:09:57 It can use gas, it can also, it's like hybrid,
00:10:00 but also produces electricity.
00:10:02 >> Sure.
00:10:03 >> And then what this does is that, you know,
00:10:06 the flying drone is actually electric,
00:10:08 pure battery electric, it can fly around 20 kilometers
00:10:13 in range, you know, the total range,
00:10:16 and, but it can be constantly charged
00:10:18 when it's loaded onto this six-wheel vehicle.
00:10:21 >> Right, yeah, so you can fly somewhere, land,
00:10:24 go drive, it's being charged as you go to your next location.
00:10:26 >> Exactly.
00:10:27 >> Put the drone up, looks around.
00:10:29 >> Well, it's not a drone, 'cause you're--
00:10:31 >> Well, okay, it's not a drone, but you know,
00:10:32 quadcopter, but it was glass on either side,
00:10:35 so like pretty good visibility out.
00:10:37 >> Right, it's a 270 degree open panoramic view
00:10:40 from the cockpit, it's very, you know, beautiful,
00:10:44 we actually have a lot of safety features
00:10:46 designed into this flying drone.
00:10:48 We actually, for the flying part,
00:10:50 we have been testing over the, you know,
00:10:51 last many years, and done tens of thousands
00:10:54 of various iterations of flying tests.
00:10:56 We even did a flying test in Dubai last year.
00:11:00 So it's, I mean, it has been tested repeatedly,
00:11:02 now it's actually coming together,
00:11:04 the automobile part and the flying part together.
00:11:07 >> So 20 kilometers, but okay, so,
00:11:10 but how long is a flight, or how fast can it go?
00:11:13 >> Well, I think, you know, the flying,
00:11:16 I would say time is roughly, you know, 20 minutes.
00:11:19 >> 20 minutes, okay.
00:11:20 >> Get a sense of it's roughly 60 kilometers per hour,
00:11:23 that kind of speed.
00:11:24 >> But I mean, you know, look, most helicopter flights
00:11:28 aren't much longer than that anyways,
00:11:30 gas-powered helicopters, so it's not crazy,
00:11:32 but also, you know, you're returning to something
00:11:35 that'll refuel it, so it's really cool.
00:11:37 >> And again, so the car, the helicopter is pure electric,
00:11:42 the car can be a hybrid, or it's electric, or what?
00:11:45 >> It's a hybrid.
00:11:46 >> It's a hybrid, okay.
00:11:46 >> It's a hybrid with extended range technology.
00:11:48 >> Got it, yeah, okay.
00:11:50 And then, roughly, cost, are we talking about,
00:11:53 have you mentioned this at all?
00:11:54 >> We haven't announced, or we even haven't decided
00:11:57 on the price, obviously that all depends on, you know,
00:12:00 when we get to a final product, but we want to make this
00:12:03 feeling like you're buying a luxury vehicle.
00:12:07 >> Yeah.
00:12:08 >> It's that kind of price.
00:12:09 >> If you're listening, just Google X-Peng flying car,
00:12:13 it's so cool looking, the six-wheel vehicle,
00:12:16 it's just such a great design.
00:12:18 And is it the same chassis or architecture
00:12:21 as the one you're showing here that has the folding?
00:12:24 >> Fold-out.
00:12:25 >> It's a different chassis, obviously it's bigger,
00:12:26 it needs to take on much bigger, larger weight,
00:12:30 and also because the powertrain technology is different,
00:12:32 so there's a lot of differences.
00:12:33 >> Okay, how many passengers in that modular vehicle?
00:12:37 The car has two?
00:12:38 >> The flying part can take up to two people,
00:12:41 and the flying module can easily, comfortably
00:12:43 have four to five passengers.
00:12:45 >> The driving?
00:12:46 >> The driving, yeah.
00:12:47 >> Okay, all right, super cool.
00:12:49 >> All right, enough with flying cars.
00:12:50 >> Well, I do want to talk a little bit
00:12:52 about the one you've shown here.
00:12:54 >> We're running out of time, we got X-Peng, come on.
00:12:57 >> I got it, I got it, I got it.
00:12:58 So the vehicle, hopefully we'll show some video on this
00:13:03 if you're watching this, the arms fold out,
00:13:06 there are four arms, two rotors each,
00:13:09 so a total of eight rotors,
00:13:11 and I think they're counter-rotating, is that correct?
00:13:13 >> Yes, counter-rotating.
00:13:14 >> Counter-rotating.
00:13:16 It seems very much modeled after,
00:13:18 what I think the reference point for most people
00:13:21 these days would be, it looks like a scaled-up drone,
00:13:23 like a DGI, like a Mavic, that these things fold down,
00:13:28 you put it in your backpack.
00:13:29 Is that accurate, or would you say,
00:13:32 I know it's much more complicated than that.
00:13:34 >> There's a lot of EVTOWs out there, right?
00:13:36 The companies that build human, flying, electric,
00:13:40 vertically taking off units, use similar technologies,
00:13:44 but I would say the challenges in the sophistication
00:13:47 is so much different compared to unmanned drone, right?
00:13:52 You're talking about the weight is different,
00:13:56 you have to consider the human interaction,
00:13:59 navigation, safety, all that actually requires
00:14:03 a totally different thinking on product side.
00:14:05 >> I saw in your video you were running,
00:14:07 there was a parachute, so if something goes wrong,
00:14:09 it actually, the nose tips and a parachute
00:14:12 blows out the rear.
00:14:13 >> Well, so that's one of the technology
00:14:15 we're trying to also develop for low-altitude flying,
00:14:18 because parachute, how do you do it very safely,
00:14:21 and at that right moment, you actually can provide
00:14:26 the rescue or the safety features.
00:14:28 So all these are technologies.
00:14:29 >> It's just interesting, 'cause I've been talking
00:14:30 to a lot of EVTOW companies, and I mentioned parachute,
00:14:33 they're like, no, no, no, we don't need that.
00:14:35 But I saw yours, I was like, hmm.
00:14:36 >> That was a test video, that one had skids.
00:14:39 It's the smaller, I think, the single,
00:14:41 is that the single person?
00:14:42 >> No, that's the flying drone that we've been testing.
00:14:46 >> They do, yes.
00:14:47 >> Yeah, we're trying to figure out how,
00:14:49 again, we don't have the final design for that,
00:14:51 but I think we are trying to put in
00:14:53 as much safety measures as we can
00:14:56 to make sure the flying part has redundancy.
00:14:59 >> Eight motors.
00:15:01 >> If you lose power in one of the four, you can still fly.
00:15:04 You know, there are a lot of these things
00:15:05 that we want to build into that.
00:15:07 >> That's actually what I want to talk about
00:15:08 in terms of safety.
00:15:09 So, we did, on a previous episode,
00:15:12 we had, I think, one of your competitors,
00:15:14 we had a guy from Joby on, who talked about how
00:15:16 a lot of these EVTOLs have multiple arms.
00:15:21 >> Multiple rotors. >> Multiple rotors.
00:15:22 >> Multiple batteries.
00:15:23 >> It's multiple redundancy.
00:15:25 So, with this vehicle that has four arms,
00:15:29 eight rotors, counter-rotating,
00:15:31 how many rotors can you lose,
00:15:35 and it still can land safely?
00:15:39 >> Again, I mean, you probably need to talk to the team
00:15:42 on the specific, you know, the technical specifications,
00:15:47 but I think we have built in redundancy
00:15:49 to address specifically these scenarios,
00:15:52 losing power on one or two motors.
00:15:55 >> So, does counter-rotating rotors,
00:15:57 this is sort of a basic helicopter question,
00:16:00 do they provide an, I think,
00:16:03 they provide an auto-rotate to land safely?
00:16:08 'Cause the Russians do that,
00:16:09 Sikorsky has done those where they're auto-rotate,
00:16:11 they don't have a tail rotor.
00:16:13 >> I'm a car guy. >> I don't know.
00:16:14 >> I mean, I think, again,
00:16:15 I mean, you're asking more technical--
00:16:17 >> Let's go to cars. >> Let's go to cars.
00:16:18 >> Let's go to cars, yeah, geez.
00:16:19 >> Okay, so, X-Peng.
00:16:23 So, we threw our, actually, our--
00:16:28 >> Our mentor, former boss, who now--
00:16:30 >> Angus McKenzie drove an X-Peng P7,
00:16:33 and said, "This is the best car I've driven in that year."
00:16:35 >> Most impressive car.
00:16:36 >> Most impressive car I've driven that year.
00:16:37 That was in 2022.
00:16:38 >> And sort of like, it's really time for Westerners
00:16:43 to take the Chinese car industry seriously,
00:16:45 because they're building world-class cars.
00:16:47 And it was the first kind of Western journalist
00:16:49 I saw write that, and I was like, "X-Peng, okay."
00:16:53 So-- >> Here we are in 2024,
00:16:55 and we still haven't driven one.
00:16:58 When can we expect to get some seat time
00:17:02 in some X-Peng vehicles?
00:17:04 >> Well, you know, we are starting our global journey
00:17:07 as a company.
00:17:08 It takes steps, right?
00:17:10 I mean, we actually started a few years ago
00:17:13 to build a presence in some of the Nordic countries.
00:17:16 So that's why last year, we started delivering
00:17:19 some of our models to--
00:17:21 >> Norway. >> Norway, Denmark,
00:17:23 Sweden, and Netherlands. >> They're huge on EVs.
00:17:26 >> So, if you happen to travel there,
00:17:29 you can see our car on the street.
00:17:31 In fact, we started delivering in the fourth quarter
00:17:34 of our G9, which is the latest SUV.
00:17:36 And my understanding is that by November,
00:17:39 it's already the best-selling--
00:17:41 >> Wow. >> Full-size SUV
00:17:43 in the electric category.
00:17:46 >> Yeah. >> In Denmark and Norway.
00:17:48 >> No kidding. >> So, it's very popular.
00:17:51 People love the product.
00:17:53 And I think we want to expand that market
00:17:57 to more countries and more customers we can reach.
00:18:02 So we will be extending to more European countries
00:18:06 using the same, obviously, product
00:18:08 that's approved for the European EU.
00:18:11 So, this year, we're looking at Germany
00:18:13 and maybe other countries like France
00:18:16 and other larger markets.
00:18:17 We also are starting this year in the Middle East.
00:18:21 We actually are signing our partners
00:18:24 and also launching sales in some Middle Eastern countries
00:18:28 this year.
00:18:29 We also will be launching
00:18:31 the first right-hand driving model,
00:18:34 so which will address the right-hand driving markets
00:18:37 like UK, Southeast Asia, and Hong Kong.
00:18:40 So, we'll do this stepwise.
00:18:42 And ultimately, we'll hopefully get to the US.
00:18:45 But again-- >> So, if I'm hearing
00:18:46 you correctly, Ed's going to send me to Norway.
00:18:49 >> Well, you make a joke.
00:18:51 First of all, I want to applaud you for coming on.
00:18:54 I have been trying to get Xpeng,
00:18:57 I've been trying to get any Chinese manufacturer
00:19:00 to sit in the chair and chat with us.
00:19:02 And there seems to be this hesitancy
00:19:03 because of this question we're going to ask,
00:19:05 which is, "When are you coming to the US?"
00:19:07 I hear you, everybody else first,
00:19:10 and eventually the US.
00:19:11 What, in your mind, what has to happen?
00:19:14 I know there's a lot, there's some political stuff.
00:19:16 What's the holdup for coming here?
00:19:19 Especially because we just did this exploration in Mexico
00:19:23 and how all the Chinese manufacturers
00:19:25 are setting up shop just south of our border.
00:19:27 Like, it just seems like it's going to happen,
00:19:32 but what's the big step that you see?
00:19:34 >> It's a big market.
00:19:35 For EV, it is one of the most important markets.
00:19:38 And also, it's one of the, I would say,
00:19:41 toughest market to really be successful.
00:19:44 I mean, look at, Japanese took 20, 30 years,
00:19:46 Korean took same amount of time to establish themselves.
00:19:50 It's not something you can just say,
00:19:52 "I'll drop my vehicles here and here we go."
00:19:55 >> They're going to sell themselves magically.
00:19:56 >> Again, also we are building smart EV, right?
00:19:59 So we want to showcase not just a electric vehicle.
00:20:02 The technology, hopefully we can actually allow the drivers
00:20:06 to enjoy the same time as our customers
00:20:08 around the world can enjoy.
00:20:10 Hopefully with the same technology we're launching in China.
00:20:13 So with that goal, we need to be really well prepared
00:20:17 before we actually decide to make an entry.
00:20:19 >> But that, so in other words,
00:20:21 I have a very American-centric outlook,
00:20:26 and so I assume everybody wants to come here.
00:20:29 And I know that's not always the case,
00:20:30 but for Chinese automakers, Xpeng specifically,
00:20:33 that's a goal is to get into the US market.
00:20:37 >> I think, ultimately, I think US market cannot be ignored.
00:20:42 >> Really?
00:20:43 Okay.
00:20:44 >> I mean, look, we're 15 million-ish new vehicles a year,
00:20:48 second only to China, so.
00:20:50 >> Here's the thing, though, right?
00:20:51 The thing that, and I've said this a couple times,
00:20:53 the mind-blowing thing is, your competitor, BYD,
00:20:56 apparently, I haven't validated this,
00:20:58 but it's made all the news about the last week
00:21:00 that they've surpassed Tesla.
00:21:03 They're now the global leader in electric vehicle sales
00:21:06 or new generation vehicle sales, whatever.
00:21:09 The wild thing for everybody listening and watching
00:21:11 is that they did it without selling
00:21:12 a single vehicle in the US, point one.
00:21:15 Point two, again, had a chat with Jim Farley.
00:21:18 He said, "Watch what China's doing."
00:21:21 But also, the China market does not need American brands.
00:21:26 They don't need Ford, they don't need Chevy,
00:21:29 they don't need VW or Toyota.
00:21:30 >> Anymore, anymore.
00:21:31 >> They might need the premium brands
00:21:32 'cause the Chinese consumer likes premium luxury goods.
00:21:35 Does, is that true, do you believe,
00:21:38 I'm going to, this is sort of a bigger picture question
00:21:40 for you, does China need US brands?
00:21:43 And does Xpeng need America to be successful?
00:21:47 Sort of the counter.
00:21:49 >> Well, again, I always believed we are all connected.
00:21:54 The world, the technology should not be limited
00:21:56 to just one region, the product,
00:21:58 if it's really good product,
00:21:59 should be enjoyed by all customers.
00:22:01 >> Yes. >> Right, I mean,
00:22:02 that's my belief. >> Absolutely, absolutely.
00:22:03 >> So the first question is that it's not about
00:22:06 whether it's European or Japanese or American brands.
00:22:09 If it's a good car at the right price, it should sell well.
00:22:13 And I think in China, you're looking at,
00:22:16 there's a lot of competitors, and then I think EV,
00:22:20 in Chinese market, driving technology
00:22:23 or smart cabin sort of behavior,
00:22:26 some of the Chinese players actually had a,
00:22:28 probably more faster reaction to the market demand.
00:22:32 And the result is that they will be coming up with cars
00:22:35 that's more attractive, more affordable,
00:22:38 has a China specifics that people like to use.
00:22:41 And that's why people enjoy it.
00:22:43 It does point to that in EV era,
00:22:48 the brand, legacy brand equity is not as strong
00:22:51 as the traditional automobile side.
00:22:53 >> Right. >> But it doesn't not mean
00:22:55 it's because it's Japanese or just because German.
00:22:57 It's just like people are saying, okay, for EV,
00:23:00 I'm willing to try the latest technology,
00:23:02 regardless where it's from.
00:23:03 >> Is it also not that, I mean,
00:23:05 China has had tremendous growth in one generation, right?
00:23:10 They talk about 400 million people going from poverty
00:23:12 up into the middle class, and becoming drivers.
00:23:15 We're like generation one, 1.5 of Chinese drivers.
00:23:19 There is no nostalgia for old brands.
00:23:23 It's not like somebody in China,
00:23:24 their grandfather drove a Ford,
00:23:26 and their dad drove a Ford,
00:23:27 and now they're going to drive a Ford.
00:23:29 There is this acceptance of new brands.
00:23:31 It's like, I don't think fondly of these old,
00:23:34 I'm just interested in what I can get now
00:23:36 for the money that I have and for the best experience.
00:23:39 Is that accurate?
00:23:40 >> Well, I think, first of all, it is not entirely accurate
00:23:45 because brand equity is still worth something, right?
00:23:47 And people have built through their word of mouth,
00:23:49 service network, a product on the road,
00:23:51 people, there's awareness.
00:23:53 So all that is--
00:23:53 >> A Ferrari's a Ferrari.
00:23:54 >> Ferrari's a Ferrari, people still want, you know,
00:23:56 Lamborghini, Ferrari, because cool, expensive, it's an icon.
00:24:00 But in the mainstream market,
00:24:02 that's what actually people are saying,
00:24:03 that we don't think we need, necessarily,
00:24:06 have to go for the Lexi brand, especially for EVs,
00:24:09 and EV with smart technologies.
00:24:11 We all trust the Chinese technology.
00:24:13 >> All right. >> So that's good.
00:24:14 >> Let's say, fast forward a couple years,
00:24:17 there's an X-Peng dealership, I'm going in, sell me on it.
00:24:19 Why would I buy an X-Peng?
00:24:23 >> What's the USP for X-Peng?
00:24:24 >> What's your special power?
00:24:26 >> Well, I think, first of all, our X-Peng, the product,
00:24:31 we want to be viewed as more than an electric vehicle.
00:24:36 Because in our mind, future mobility,
00:24:40 obviously, energy transition's very important,
00:24:43 but really, to change people's driving behavior,
00:24:45 it is actually the smartification.
00:24:48 That's a word I can't always use,
00:24:49 rather than the electrification.
00:24:52 Because electrification, I think,
00:24:54 there's many players can actually put batteries
00:24:56 in the vehicle and make it electric.
00:24:59 But I think changing the user experience
00:25:02 and people's embracing new technology,
00:25:05 how you drive, how do you use the vehicles,
00:25:07 how do you interact with the vehicles,
00:25:10 that is going to be defining the future.
00:25:11 So that's what we want to be focused on.
00:25:13 We want to produce attractively designed,
00:25:17 in a very solid, electric-powered vehicle as a basis.
00:25:22 But on top of it, we want to be viewed
00:25:24 as really the technology product,
00:25:26 in addition to be a solid electric automobile.
00:25:30 >> And so what is X-Peng doing with this technology
00:25:33 that's different than that one's doing or they're doing?
00:25:37 >> So, first of all, we want to lead
00:25:39 on the most important elements of the technology
00:25:43 along this smart EV.
00:25:46 That's the category, smart EV, right?
00:25:48 So, for example, in our product,
00:25:50 we were probably the first one to launch
00:25:54 the mass-produced high-voltage platform SUV, like G9.
00:25:59 For example, we led industry in that way.
00:26:01 So that's why our products are always viewed
00:26:03 as one of the fastest-charging EVs in the world.
00:26:06 You know, G9 has that reputation.
00:26:08 We also led with a very well-recognized
00:26:13 smart cabin and electric-electronic architecture
00:26:17 that makes the interaction with the vehicle
00:26:21 much smoother, intuitive, voice,
00:26:25 it integrates the content, the navigation,
00:26:28 the comfort, everything.
00:26:31 That's also an area that we are well-known in China.
00:26:35 But the most important thing that we stand out
00:26:38 in China is our autonomous driving capability,
00:26:42 which we provide a high degree,
00:26:45 what we call the XNGP, in our vehicles.
00:26:48 Now, all the new models that we're selling
00:26:50 will be equipped with the XNGP capability,
00:26:53 which essentially is the ADAS function
00:26:56 that allows the vehicle to drive mostly,
00:27:00 99 plus percent, in urban driving conditions
00:27:03 in busy streets in China.
00:27:04 >> And this is hands-free?
00:27:06 >> Well, legally, you're still not allowed
00:27:08 to do hands-free in China yet.
00:27:10 >> Okay, so we're talking--
00:27:11 >> Level three.
00:27:12 >> We would call that level two,
00:27:13 if you have to have your hands--
00:27:14 >> So that's why I never said level three,
00:27:16 because legally, you're not allowed to market
00:27:18 level three or level four in China.
00:27:20 >> But in California, let's say,
00:27:22 where it is legal to have level three,
00:27:24 if we had an XPeng here, would it operate as a level three?
00:27:28 >> Well--
00:27:29 >> Theoretically?
00:27:30 >> Again, we need to understand the regulatory requirement.
00:27:34 I cannot say that today, because I haven't done
00:27:36 the necessary work, but the technology
00:27:38 is essentially letting the driver
00:27:41 has a much more freer operation of the vehicle
00:27:44 without constantly doing this while you're driving.
00:27:47 And that's what's actually happening to drivers
00:27:51 using our vehicles in hundreds of cities in China already.
00:27:56 >> Let me get a little personal here.
00:27:59 I looked you up, you are a University of Oregon undergrad.
00:28:04 >> That's right.
00:28:05 >> And then, Yale.
00:28:06 >> Husky, Ducks and Husky and Bulldog, yeah, so.
00:28:10 >> Okay.
00:28:10 >> But not in that order, right?
00:28:11 Did you do Yale and then came back for--
00:28:14 >> No, I did undergrad in chemistry at Oregon.
00:28:18 I did a PhD in biochemistry in Washington,
00:28:21 and I did my MBA, so I switched gear
00:28:24 after my scientific studies.
00:28:26 >> Yeah, how the heck--
00:28:27 >> You just like being in school.
00:28:28 >> Yeah, how the heck are you a chemistry,
00:28:31 biochemistry, PhD--
00:28:32 >> MBA, yeah.
00:28:33 >> And then you did banking.
00:28:34 You were at--
00:28:35 >> Yeah, I was a banker for 20 years.
00:28:37 Wall Street for six years, and then Asia for 14 years
00:28:40 with JP Morgan.
00:28:40 >> Wow, okay.
00:28:41 >> So, and--
00:28:42 >> You got bored with money,
00:28:43 you're like, I want to do something more exciting?
00:28:44 >> No, just, you know.
00:28:45 (laughing)
00:28:47 I would say, you know, banking is a great way
00:28:49 to see a lot of things.
00:28:51 >> Oh, I'm sure.
00:28:51 >> You probably know bankers, right?
00:28:52 I mean, we deal with different companies
00:28:53 and different personalities, especially that period.
00:28:57 You know, I went back to China and Hong Kong in 2004,
00:29:02 start covering Chinese clients, and for 14 years,
00:29:05 you saw the explosion of the entrepreneurs
00:29:08 that really made impact in China.
00:29:10 >> It's huge.
00:29:11 >> On the technology side, on the internet side.
00:29:12 You know, Alibaba is one of the companies I worked with,
00:29:15 and Tencent, Baidu.
00:29:17 You know, I saw the entrepreneurship really taking hold.
00:29:21 >> And if you've never heard of Alibaba, Google them.
00:29:24 But like, I think bigger than Amazon,
00:29:26 or almost as big, bigger retail-wise than Amazon.
00:29:29 >> Yeah, 'cause of the market.
00:29:30 >> It's huge, yeah.
00:29:31 >> But how long were you in America, total?
00:29:33 >> I was in the US, total, for 17 years.
00:29:37 >> Oh, okay, wow.
00:29:38 >> And continuously?
00:29:39 >> Well, two years when I was in middle school, actually.
00:29:44 But at the end, for 15 years, continuously.
00:29:47 >> So then when you come back to a show like CES,
00:29:50 'cause you're now, you're based in China, in Hong Kong?
00:29:52 >> I'm based in Hong Kong, yeah, my family's in Hong Kong.
00:29:54 >> So is my family.
00:29:56 So you're based in, what, do you just think,
00:29:58 like, wow, this country's all so backwards,
00:30:01 so the cars are, the Chinese cars are so far ahead,
00:30:04 or what's your take?
00:30:05 Or is there any nostalgia for the time you spent here?
00:30:08 >> Well, I think I really like driving in the US.
00:30:13 The roads, the open space.
00:30:15 You know, think about Oregon, Washington,
00:30:18 you know, you have the coast, right?
00:30:21 >> Beautiful.
00:30:22 >> Yeah, the Cascades. >> Oregon coast is some
00:30:23 of the most beautiful, yeah.
00:30:24 >> So driving-wise, I think driving pleasure
00:30:26 is actually driving the US, you know,
00:30:27 with all these nice landscape and roads.
00:30:32 But I think the technology, I actually enjoy, you know,
00:30:35 parking and using voice to command my vehicle,
00:30:38 allowing the XMGP to take over when I need them.
00:30:42 I enjoy that part in China.
00:30:44 >> Right, okay.
00:30:45 Well, I know we're running out of time.
00:30:47 What do you drive?
00:30:48 What cars, do you have any fun cars?
00:30:51 >> Well, I have a G9.
00:30:53 I used to have a P7, but that was, obviously,
00:30:55 two years ago when P7 first launched.
00:30:58 So, but I'm now driving the G9, which is the latest SUV.
00:31:02 But I'm actually getting an X9,
00:31:05 which is the brand new MPV product
00:31:08 we actually launched, start delivering this month.
00:31:12 >> That would interest you.
00:31:13 >> I'm a huge minivan fan. >> He likes minivans.
00:31:14 >> I love minivans.
00:31:15 >> It's more than a minivan.
00:31:16 >> I know, I know, but--
00:31:17 >> Okay, well, tell us about it.
00:31:17 >> Nine passengers, does it mean three rows of three?
00:31:20 >> Well, first of all, it's still three rows, right?
00:31:23 I mean, it's a seven passenger car.
00:31:24 >> Oh, seven, okay.
00:31:25 >> But it's so much more than a regular MPV.
00:31:29 So, think about it.
00:31:30 First of all, it's a pure battery electric.
00:31:32 Large space, 5.3 meters in total length,
00:31:37 and then also--
00:31:37 >> 18 feet.
00:31:38 >> Yeah, lots of space.
00:31:40 It has the X10GP, so the top of the line
00:31:43 autonomous driving capabilities.
00:31:45 It has rear wheel turning, so for a large vehicle,
00:31:49 it drives more nimblers than the smart.
00:31:52 I mean, think about it.
00:31:53 That is a cool feature for a large vehicle.
00:31:56 >> We love rear steering.
00:31:57 >> You have also automatically, the one button,
00:32:00 it folds the third row into a flat bed,
00:32:03 so it's a huge room.
00:32:04 You can pack like--
00:32:05 >> I'm sold.
00:32:06 >> 20 plus suitcases in there.
00:32:07 >> Dual sliding.
00:32:08 >> And then you have dual sliding doors.
00:32:11 There's beautiful seats that can be zero gravity,
00:32:15 which means that you can just lie down.
00:32:16 It's like a sleeping pod.
00:32:18 There's a huge screen.
00:32:20 You can command and control with your control vehicle.
00:32:24 There's actually the first time
00:32:26 you have central air system.
00:32:27 It's like, think about it.
00:32:28 It's not a vent.
00:32:29 It's not like they don't blow in your face, right?
00:32:32 It's almost like a central air
00:32:33 that sends the temperature down
00:32:36 with a small find of these hairs.
00:32:38 >> You're killing me.
00:32:39 >> All that technology.
00:32:40 >> When can I buy one?
00:32:41 I mean, this is like--
00:32:42 >> I mean, look, the minivans that I like
00:32:45 are like the Japanese market,
00:32:47 where it's like a four passenger minivan
00:32:49 with a 45 inch screen.
00:32:51 >> Think about it.
00:32:52 I mean, this is actually,
00:32:53 even though it's a minivan,
00:32:56 because of the rear wheel turning,
00:32:57 because the XNGP,
00:32:59 so driving it is so much more convenient.
00:33:03 So I think it actually can appeal
00:33:05 to both the minivan crowd as well,
00:33:07 the SUV crowd.
00:33:09 >> Sure.
00:33:10 >> Because people want to drive this vehicle now.
00:33:12 >> I have a brand ambassador for you,
00:33:15 a good friend of ours.
00:33:16 His name, he was in the Fast and the Furious movie.
00:33:17 His name is Sung Kang.
00:33:19 He loves minivans.
00:33:20 He loves minivans.
00:33:22 So I'll connect you guys if you want Sung to be here.
00:33:23 >> Absolutely, yeah, I wish I were him.
00:33:24 >> To be in the X9.
00:33:25 >> Yeah, I don't know if you need a face.
00:33:27 He's a good face.
00:33:28 He's Korean, but you know.
00:33:29 >> Listen, I know we're out of time.
00:33:32 We would love to have you on again.
00:33:33 To Johnny's opening question,
00:33:36 we would move heaven and earth
00:33:39 for a flying car test vehicle.
00:33:42 We actually, we have some test facilities in California
00:33:45 where they could be unlicensed.
00:33:48 We can fly them around.
00:33:50 Let's talk off camera about maybe--
00:33:52 >> Yeah, and then after Ed sends me to Norway
00:33:54 to drive the G9, we can talk again.
00:33:57 >> Yeah, well, you know, maybe not,
00:33:59 you know, in a few months, probably more countries.
00:34:02 You don't need to be in Norway, maybe Germany or others.
00:34:04 >> Well, Norway's good.
00:34:05 >> Norway's fun, you know, it's pretty,
00:34:06 especially driving on the northern coast.
00:34:08 That would be the right picture to take.
00:34:10 >> Listen to Mr. Gu, Ed.
00:34:11 >> All right, well, thank you.
00:34:13 >> Yeah, thank you so much.
00:34:14 We really appreciate your time.
00:34:15 >> This was great, thank you.
00:34:16 >> All right.
00:34:17 Well, that was certainly interesting.
00:34:19 >> If you are able to, if you're listening at home
00:34:23 and you want to just pull over or just remind yourself,
00:34:25 go and Google image search or YouTube video search
00:34:29 this Xpeng Aero HT, A-E-R-O-H-T.
00:34:33 One of the wildest things you will see
00:34:35 and apparently going to fly this year in China.
00:34:38 >> But it's so funny, like, and again,
00:34:41 I mean, I guess they're telling the truth,
00:34:42 but I was talking to other people and like,
00:34:44 wait, you're making this?
00:34:45 This is happening?
00:34:46 Oh yeah, no, the prototype flew, we're going to sell it.
00:34:48 It's a flying car, like an actual eight rotor flying car.
00:34:52 >> Yep.
00:34:53 >> And just wild.
00:34:54 Also, again, I mean, you know,
00:34:57 Xpeng wasn't even a thing not that long ago
00:35:00 and now they're one of the major players on the global stage.
00:35:03 >> Yeah, when you hear about Chinese car manufacturers,
00:35:05 it's always BYD, Xpeng, and NIO
00:35:08 are the ones that are brought up all the time.
00:35:10 What will likely be coming in the future, though,
00:35:13 is from the company that we're going to talk to next,
00:35:16 this company Mobility and Harmony.
00:35:19 They are backed by Foxconn, which-
00:35:22 >> Builders of this.
00:35:23 >> Yes, builders of, not just that.
00:35:25 >> Your PlayStation.
00:35:26 >> Your PlayStation, your Xbox,
00:35:29 compact computers back in the day.
00:35:31 They started making Atari joysticks.
00:35:33 That's how long they've been making it.
00:35:34 >> So in other words, they're really good
00:35:35 at making consumer electronic products.
00:35:38 >> Yes.
00:35:39 >> And Ed, what if we want to start our own car company?
00:35:41 Who would we talk to?
00:35:42 >> You would want to talk to this guy, Jack Chang,
00:35:45 from MIH, because they're trying to scale up
00:35:49 this consortium, which is Mobility and Harmony,
00:35:51 into becoming the world's go-to-
00:35:54 >> Go-to.
00:35:55 >> Contract manufacturer for electric vehicles.
00:35:58 So if you think about it, they already know how
00:35:59 to put the batteries in a mobile phone
00:36:02 that's got a big screen.
00:36:03 As Johnny mentioned, they build everything from Xboxes
00:36:06 to all the Nintendo devices, to all the PlayStations.
00:36:09 They know how to do this kind of stuff.
00:36:11 Put wheels on it, you got yourself
00:36:13 a software-defined vehicle.
00:36:14 >> And more importantly, if you ever find yourself
00:36:16 in Taipei, you're going to want to hang out with Jack Chang.
00:36:18 Trust me, check this one out.
00:36:20 >> Yes, he's great.
00:36:21 >> All right, so Jack Chang, thank you so much
00:36:23 for joining us.
00:36:24 You're from MIH, which I want to talk about,
00:36:27 but you have actually a very long history in automotive.
00:36:31 >> Yes.
00:36:32 >> And you actually, I think you got your start
00:36:34 very early on at Ford?
00:36:36 >> Yes.
00:36:37 >> Who was CEO of Ford at the time, when you were there?
00:36:40 He gives us the rough timeline.
00:36:42 >> Was it Nasser?
00:36:42 >> Was it Jack Nasser?
00:36:43 >> Jack Nasser.
00:36:44 >> Jack Nasser.
00:36:45 >> Jack Nasser's period.
00:36:46 >> He put together a team, man.
00:36:48 >> Yeah.
00:36:49 >> It's still, you know.
00:36:50 >> What were you doing at Ford for Nasser?
00:36:55 >> Jack Nasser was promoting 1.4, you know, for 2000.
00:37:00 We're heading from the '80s through the '90s,
00:37:05 and there are a whole bunch of brands,
00:37:08 including Jack, Land Rover.
00:37:10 >> The premier automotive group.
00:37:12 >> Yeah, PAG.
00:37:13 >> Yeah, PAG.
00:37:13 >> PAG, and we also have Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda.
00:37:18 We have a little bit of a Kia, too.
00:37:22 So, there's so many brands, and it makes no sense
00:37:27 that you have different platforms.
00:37:29 So, for 2000 to put everything together,
00:37:33 commonize the platform, hopefully,
00:37:35 just like what a lot of OEMs are doing.
00:37:38 >> Right, and I remember there was two different
00:37:41 Ford Escorts, like they couldn't even get the Fords
00:37:44 on the same platform.
00:37:45 There's a European Escort and a North American Escort.
00:37:47 That was when people always talked about Ford One.
00:37:50 They go, "We got to start there,
00:37:51 "and then we'll get Aston Martin and Jag on the same platform."
00:37:54 >> I'll give you another one.
00:37:55 It's got a European Fiesta and an Asia Pacific Festiva.
00:38:00 >> Right.
00:38:00 >> But, it all started with an F, but different spelling.
00:38:03 >> Oh yeah, oh yeah.
00:38:04 And then they went through the phase of everything
00:38:05 needs to start with an E.
00:38:06 >> Right.
00:38:07 >> So, you were doing, was it global purchasing?
00:38:11 >> I was on the global purchasing for,
00:38:14 based in Shanghai, and buying all the components,
00:38:18 and then ship it to different production sites for Ford.
00:38:21 >> Okay, so logistical, yeah.
00:38:23 Purchasing, that's a good place to be.
00:38:25 And then you moved, was that to Fiat?
00:38:28 >> Yeah, after Ford, I moved, Sergio Macchione come to me.
00:38:33 >> Oh.
00:38:35 >> That's the thing, and it was in 2007.
00:38:40 >> So, are you a poker player?
00:38:42 >> I'm a smoker, so.
00:38:43 (laughing)
00:38:46 >> And, so I knew it was one of the two, yeah.
00:38:48 >> And a coffee drinker, so.
00:38:50 >> Perfect, perfect.
00:38:52 Sergio, rest in peace, Sergio's one of my favorite
00:38:55 CEOs of all time.
00:38:57 He's great, he's quite funny.
00:38:59 Very, very sharp, and you know,
00:39:03 he would claim not to be a car guy,
00:39:04 but he's very much a car guy.
00:39:06 >> Oh yeah, but Sergio like classic music and jazz.
00:39:10 >> Yes, yes.
00:39:11 >> So music, coffee, blackberries.
00:39:15 >> Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
00:39:17 Famous for carrying around a blackberry
00:39:18 for whatever country he was in, in a backpack, right?
00:39:20 >> Sex.
00:39:21 >> Yes, yes.
00:39:22 And a black sweater, so you have kind of the black sweater.
00:39:25 >> Black sweater.
00:39:25 >> It's all the same, but he's got tons of it.
00:39:30 >> Yes, very, very clever guy.
00:39:32 And then, so were you doing roughly the same thing
00:39:34 for the group, Fiat group at that point?
00:39:36 >> Firstly, I replicated a global sourcing office
00:39:40 for Sergio globally, still in Shanghai.
00:39:45 And then started to negotiate with Chinese OEM, Guangzhou,
00:39:50 and set up a joint venture to launch the Fiat car,
00:39:54 then bringing Chrysler Jeep.
00:39:57 So at the time, we were also merging Fiat and Chrysler.
00:40:01 So all the initiatives were really from Sergio,
00:40:06 but execution is the big thing.
00:40:09 >> Okay, that's interesting.
00:40:11 So you really have been in the business
00:40:14 through this whole, the rise of China,
00:40:17 all the joint ventures, seeing all that happen,
00:40:21 to now, where China's started to really take a lead
00:40:24 on EV production at scale.
00:40:26 >> Yeah, I think I was the one having a traditional OEM
00:40:31 experience, and then hop into the new energy vehicle.
00:40:35 And China is taking the lead right now.
00:40:39 We kicked it off like 10 years ago.
00:40:41 I was on the stand in Ferrari, launching the car,
00:40:48 but the guys from the internet come approach me and say,
00:40:53 "Do you want to do an EV?"
00:40:55 I said, "What are you guys doing?"
00:40:57 They said, "We're internet guy,
00:40:58 "we don't know how to do the car,
00:40:59 "but you're the car guy, you can do it for us,
00:41:01 "and then we can partner together."
00:41:04 >> Well, let me ask you then, so like,
00:41:06 Ford, Chrysler, Fiat, very traditional manufacturers,
00:41:10 as old as manufacturers get.
00:41:12 What's the big difference that you've noticed
00:41:15 between the Ford way, Sergio's way,
00:41:18 and then with the Chinese new,
00:41:19 and massive new Chinese car companies?
00:41:22 What's the big difference?
00:41:23 >> Just to sum up, everybody want to commonize the platform.
00:41:27 So, Ford, and Ford 2000, and One Ford strategy,
00:41:31 Alan Murray is trying to bring everything to One Ford family.
00:41:36 Sergio have so many brands,
00:41:38 he has to also find a way to commonize it.
00:41:43 >> And he famously said, "Why do we have more than one engine?"
00:41:46 Like, "Let's just have one engine."
00:41:47 >> And to build a five million cars club,
00:41:52 bringing Fiat and Chrysler together,
00:41:54 and eventually, after Sergio pass away,
00:41:57 the Peugeot and Renault, and the Citroen merging.
00:42:03 >> Yeah, Stellantis, yeah, yeah.
00:42:04 >> Stellantis, so it's still the way to go.
00:42:06 So that's a common side, but different sides is,
00:42:09 Sergio has this will of driving everything,
00:42:14 from the top to the working level.
00:42:17 Ford traditional has this hierarchy,
00:42:20 and they organize it, and they follow their pace.
00:42:24 So there's a different management style,
00:42:27 but in common, everything is commonization of the platform.
00:42:30 >> Right, right, right, right, okay.
00:42:32 So then, did you move, so after the GAC,
00:42:36 Fiat, Chrysler joint venture, Neo was next, joining Neo?
00:42:41 >> Yes, yes.
00:42:41 >> Okay, and is that the internet company
00:42:43 you were talking about?
00:42:44 >> Yes.
00:42:45 >> Okay, so you're listed as one of the co-founders,
00:42:48 but you joined about, was it like a year
00:42:50 after they started, or no?
00:42:52 >> I started, and I told Sergio,
00:42:56 and at that time, it was Mike Manley.
00:42:59 >> Mike Manley, yes, still in the game.
00:43:01 >> Yeah, yeah.
00:43:02 >> Mike came to China very often,
00:43:04 and I've told Mike, "Mike, I'm done."
00:43:07 He said, "What do you mean you're done?"
00:43:09 I said, "Well, I'm going to do EV."
00:43:12 He said, "Really?"
00:43:14 And then he thought about it for like a minute,
00:43:16 and said, "Oh, you'll be very rich."
00:43:19 I said, "What's that supposed to mean?"
00:43:22 Then I find out, yeah.
00:43:25 (laughing)
00:43:27 >> Good for you, sir.
00:43:28 >> Good job, good job.
00:43:30 >> Can I ask, why?
00:43:33 Why move, what was going on in your head?
00:43:36 What were you seeing in 2014, 2015,
00:43:39 that said, "I need to go EV."
00:43:42 Right, this is, for us in the US, for us at Motor Trend,
00:43:46 2013, we named Tesla Model S our car of the year,
00:43:50 gave it a biggest award, right?
00:43:51 For us--
00:43:52 >> It was a very disruptive thing to even have a,
00:43:56 to have an EV that was any good,
00:43:59 because the ones before that had all been--
00:44:00 >> Well, it's first electric car of the year ever for us,
00:44:04 and we're celebrating 75 years this year.
00:44:07 So, that's kind of when it hit our radar.
00:44:09 >> First unanimous vote?
00:44:11 >> Yeah, when were EVs really part of your consciousness
00:44:15 professionally?
00:44:19 >> We have a Fiat 500E, a Cinquecento, that didn't sell.
00:44:24 And Sergio was like, pounding on the table and say,
00:44:27 "We lost tons of money on this."
00:44:30 >> My brother bought one.
00:44:31 >> Very famously, he pounded on the table.
00:44:34 >> Yeah, yes, he was.
00:44:36 >> Unfortunately, that car didn't sell out,
00:44:39 but I look at the car, I say, "Wow, this cute baby.
00:44:41 "I'm supposed to do something also for China."
00:44:47 And to really get this going, I need a platform.
00:44:52 We talk about this, but because of,
00:44:56 everybody is just looking at Tesla and what they're doing,
00:45:00 and Tesla is not making money,
00:45:02 and Elon has this debacle of having a smaller volume,
00:45:08 and looking at Model 3, he's not sure,
00:45:11 so he's sleeping in the plant, that story.
00:45:16 So I said, "Well, let me find out what's going on."
00:45:22 Because when the internet come to me,
00:45:24 I said, "I'll call my son."
00:45:26 Because both my sons graduate from University of Michigan,
00:45:30 and they're in the consultant business,
00:45:33 and I call them, and they say,
00:45:37 "Dad, you got to do it.
00:45:39 "This is for young generation."
00:45:41 >> Right.
00:45:42 >> All right, I listen to my son, I'll do it.
00:45:45 >> Okay, all right.
00:45:47 So then, joining NIO in that early,
00:45:52 it must have been, I mean, it's very different, right?
00:45:56 Coming from established, multinational like Ford,
00:45:59 and then building what you did with GAC and Fiat Chrysler.
00:46:03 How many people are at the company when you joined?
00:46:07 >> We have about 50 people to start with.
00:46:11 >> Okay.
00:46:12 >> Like a just startup, and then we moved to the new office.
00:46:17 Later on, the Shanghai government give us a compound.
00:46:21 We were then ramping up in 2015 to about 1,000 to 2,000.
00:46:28 Eventually, when we launched the first SUV ES8,
00:46:32 it was about 7,000 people.
00:46:34 So, a couple thousand.
00:46:36 >> That's a lot of growth.
00:46:37 >> That's fast, yeah.
00:46:38 >> Yeah.
00:46:39 >> That's very fast.
00:46:39 >> And how big is, we know NIO is massive,
00:46:41 but how big now is NIO?
00:46:43 >> 30,000 people.
00:46:44 >> 30,000 people.
00:46:45 >> And they just drop off 20%, I think, roughly, right now.
00:46:49 >> Did you ever cross paths with Jim Farley,
00:46:52 the current CEO of Ford?
00:46:53 You ever talk to him?
00:46:55 >> I know of him, but I didn't have,
00:46:56 because I retired from Ford in 2006.
00:47:01 >> He was in Toyota in 2006.
00:47:02 >> Yeah, and when Allen took over.
00:47:04 >> Right, okay, because it's very interesting.
00:47:08 I've had a lot of conversations with him.
00:47:11 He's one of the reasons why we're here.
00:47:12 He said, he told me three years ago,
00:47:14 he said, "You guys are Motor Trend.
00:47:16 "You guys have to focus on not just EVs,
00:47:19 "but software-defined vehicles, number one.
00:47:22 "Number two, you have to look at China,
00:47:24 "and you have to look at,"
00:47:25 he mentioned two companies specifically,
00:47:28 NIO and XPeng.
00:47:30 And he said, "You must go see what they're doing.
00:47:32 "Look at the assistant that NIO has in the car.
00:47:34 "Look at all the stuff that they are delivering."
00:47:37 And I think it's wild that he's,
00:47:41 essentially talking about you,
00:47:42 and a lot of what you've done, and are doing,
00:47:45 and your roots are sort of with Ford, right?
00:47:48 And it's sort of a full circle.
00:47:50 Oh, and he mentioned,
00:47:54 all of these companies use these big,
00:47:57 consulting the McKinsey's, and this and that.
00:47:59 And it's funny to hear that you are getting advice
00:48:01 from your sons who are working in that space.
00:48:04 >> Boston Consulting. >> Boston?
00:48:05 >> Boston Consulting? >> My wife works there.
00:48:07 >> Little plug, oh, whoa.
00:48:08 >> Fantastic, so this is great.
00:48:09 This is awesome. >> Yeah, okay.
00:48:11 All right, so let's talk about mobility and harmony
00:48:13 before we run up against our time limit here.
00:48:15 >> Yeah, exactly.
00:48:16 So let's get, you left in,
00:48:18 but you did leave NIO in 2019.
00:48:20 Is there any, why?
00:48:23 >> Well, I have a lock-back period
00:48:25 of six months after IPO.
00:48:27 So after that, I would like to retire,
00:48:30 I file a retirement, and also I have to notify the NYSE,
00:48:35 so I can really get out of my share, some of the share.
00:48:40 But that's a financial side,
00:48:42 but the real size is I was,
00:48:44 like 2018, I was 60 years old.
00:48:47 >> Young, it's young, come on.
00:48:49 >> And I was about to go home, because I'm from Taiwan.
00:48:54 So I went back to Taipei.
00:48:57 >> Okay, okay.
00:48:58 >> Luckily, I went back to Taipei,
00:48:59 then the COVID erupted.
00:49:01 >> Okay, okay.
00:49:03 And then, so you go back, and you're--
00:49:06 >> Well, let's get to mobility and harmony.
00:49:09 >> Oh, I know, how does this connect to,
00:49:11 how does, what's your connection then
00:49:13 with Foxconn, Hanhai, Precision, Company Limited?
00:49:16 >> Okay, so one day, Terry Guo, at that time,
00:49:20 who was the founder of Foxconn,
00:49:22 we were old-time friends,
00:49:23 he always wanted to do something related to car.
00:49:26 >> Foxconn's a manufacturer famous for the iPhone.
00:49:30 >> Among many things, but yeah.
00:49:31 >> Many things, but that's the most famous.
00:49:32 >> Well, it's not only iPhone, it's got PlayStation,
00:49:34 you got Nintendo, you got--
00:49:36 >> Everything.
00:49:37 >> Everything that you can see, electronics.
00:49:40 >> Right, I was just going to say, when people hear,
00:49:42 Americans hear Foxconn, we know iPhone,
00:49:45 they were the ones that switched from plastic to glass,
00:49:48 they had the muscle to do that.
00:49:49 >> High-tech, contract manufacturing at scale.
00:49:52 >> Yeah, yeah.
00:49:53 And the next move for Foxconn is really get into
00:49:58 another level of certification of technology.
00:50:03 EV represent a huge opportunity,
00:50:06 and pay for the foundation for robot,
00:50:11 because once you complete the EV, the wheels,
00:50:14 and then you turn into legs,
00:50:16 and you can walk and you can run.
00:50:18 And then in the future, there are three folds
00:50:22 of Foxconn EV strategy, EV and then robot,
00:50:26 and eventually merging the digital medical things into it.
00:50:31 So, that take care of the lifestyle of people.
00:50:35 Phone, computer has been a lifestyle for 10 years,
00:50:40 but on a mobility world,
00:50:44 how can you make that even more user-friendly?
00:50:47 That's the things that Foxconn is looking at.
00:50:49 >> Okay, so your old friend Terry calls you up,
00:50:54 says, "Hey, how's retirement going?
00:50:56 "You want to start up a car company?"
00:50:58 >> You want to hear a story?
00:50:59 The story is like, 2019, just when I got out
00:51:04 of this IPO process, and the launch of the ESA,
00:51:08 which is the first SUV, it's like the F-150,
00:51:13 a little bit smaller, but it's got a very good machine
00:51:17 called Nomi, it's an AI, and it's voice activated.
00:51:21 >> That's the assistant.
00:51:22 >> It's the little system, little ball, talks to you.
00:51:23 >> So Terry called me from Shenzhen and say,
00:51:26 I was in Shanghai, he said,
00:51:29 "Oh, I got this friend of yours,
00:51:32 "you want to come down here and look at your car?
00:51:36 "I was very interested in your Nomi, which is the AI."
00:51:41 And I said, "Well, yeah, but I'm kind of tied up,
00:51:46 "won't you give me a couple weeks?"
00:51:49 So he said, "Well, we're going to see our friends in Italy,
00:51:54 "won't you come with us?"
00:51:55 I said, "Okay."
00:51:57 I went to a train with Terry,
00:52:00 and a whole bunch of the Foxconn executives,
00:52:04 and then they said, "Well, we want to do a car
00:52:09 "in China together."
00:52:10 I said, "Okay, I can help you."
00:52:14 So I become an advisor to Terry.
00:52:16 So after this was six months, Terry was saying,
00:52:21 "Well, I'm pretty busy politically,
00:52:25 "I might run for president of Taiwan."
00:52:28 And then the other side is Stellantis forming.
00:52:34 >> Right.
00:52:34 >> Including FCS merging with Pujo Group.
00:52:38 So everybody was slowing down,
00:52:40 and then I said, "Okay, I'm ready to come back to Taiwan,
00:52:43 "what do you want to do?"
00:52:45 Oh, he already gave the chairmanship to Yang Liu.
00:52:48 Yang is the current leader in Foxconn Group, he's the head.
00:52:53 And he said, "Well, come back, come back to Taipei."
00:52:56 So I moved back to Taipei to live,
00:52:58 and started to form this idea of issue,
00:53:02 when we discuss about Ford and Fiat Chrysler,
00:53:05 the common platform things.
00:53:07 I always want to do a commonization between S-Core
00:53:12 or the Mazda3 and the Volvo S40,
00:53:16 should be on the same platform.
00:53:18 >> Right.
00:53:19 >> But the brand really killing it,
00:53:20 because all the brand leader want their differentiation.
00:53:24 >> Sure, right.
00:53:25 >> So commonization is not much.
00:53:26 So come back to Taiwan, look at the ICT process,
00:53:31 the motherboard, everything underneath the motherboard,
00:53:36 exactly the same, the camera, the module are all the same.
00:53:39 But different configuration software-wise.
00:53:42 The software-driven become the big thing.
00:53:45 And I've told the guy, "Yeah, I know how to do it."
00:53:47 I was in NIO, I see software's really surpassing
00:53:52 the previous age, that people are really,
00:53:56 they don't know nothing about the software.
00:53:59 But the young generation getting to know everything.
00:54:02 The millennial kids are already 23 years old.
00:54:05 >> Right, yeah, yeah, right.
00:54:06 >> So they need to know their user experience better.
00:54:09 >> So let me break it down for the audience,
00:54:11 'cause you just said a lot.
00:54:12 ICT, integrated chip, right?
00:54:15 >> Yeah.
00:54:16 >> Is what you're talking about, right?
00:54:17 So, and it's really more that common platform for EVs,
00:54:21 and correct me if I'm wrong, it should be easier,
00:54:23 because they're all fundamentally a skateboard test, right?
00:54:27 The current concept is battery in the floor,
00:54:30 motors somewhere between the wheels,
00:54:32 and from that, no one's, when you use the Volvo
00:54:36 in the Ford example, no one's trying to put
00:54:37 a five-cylinder engine here,
00:54:39 or a three-cylinder turbo over here.
00:54:40 You're going to, the way to keep costs down low
00:54:44 is to build really good batteries,
00:54:47 and really good high-efficiency motors,
00:54:49 and then define the brand in the styling,
00:54:54 design, and the software. >> In the UX,
00:54:55 via software, right?
00:54:56 Okay, is that accurate?
00:54:58 >> Exactly, and there's one element,
00:55:00 is the buying factor.
00:55:02 The key buying motivation is smart.
00:55:06 It's no longer the styling, the specification, the features.
00:55:11 >> Okay, it's what can it do for you,
00:55:12 how does it make, how does it save you time?
00:55:14 How does it make it--
00:55:15 >> The software will make vehicles smarter.
00:55:18 >> Right, okay.
00:55:19 >> It's not the hardware.
00:55:19 So hardware become commodities.
00:55:21 >> Oh, okay.
00:55:23 >> So then, and all this goes back to--
00:55:25 >> Real quick though, when you say smart,
00:55:26 so like self-driving is part of it.
00:55:29 >> What?
00:55:29 Self-driving, the data collecting.
00:55:33 >> Ah, so not even, so as a consumer,
00:55:36 I don't care, but you're saying,
00:55:38 like a third party, they want that data.
00:55:40 >> They want the data, but that data
00:55:42 is going to serve your customer better
00:55:46 during the lifetime of your services.
00:55:48 >> Explain.
00:55:49 >> Because once you got the data,
00:55:52 and then you can sort it out,
00:55:54 and give them advice of their user experience.
00:55:59 My 30 days of experience, I have twice
00:56:02 McDonald on the road, Big Macs.
00:56:05 When you approach--
00:56:07 >> You're really breaking it down
00:56:07 for the American audience, go ahead.
00:56:09 >> When you hit the store, like 50 meters away,
00:56:14 they're going to give you a heads up,
00:56:16 couple weeks ago you were here,
00:56:18 you have the Big Mac, you want to try it again?
00:56:20 >> Uh-huh, okay.
00:56:21 >> That's the smart of the vehicle.
00:56:23 >> Okay, and then maybe there's like a coupon
00:56:25 or something sent to your McDonald's app
00:56:27 that says, hey.
00:56:28 >> Because we're all from mechanical engineering,
00:56:31 as an engineer, we don't think about the user side.
00:56:33 We always think about technology side.
00:56:36 >> Interesting.
00:56:37 >> That's the, right, yes, that's the soft
00:56:40 and software is the human factor, right?
00:56:43 This is so crazy, 'cause everybody
00:56:44 who's leading this revolution,
00:56:46 this is just another, 'cause you're
00:56:46 a mechanical engineer by education,
00:56:49 all the people, the current generation,
00:56:50 the, excuse me, the older guys,
00:56:53 they're all mechanical engineers, right?
00:56:55 And they're trying to wrap their head around software,
00:56:57 which is the younger, so the younger generation.
00:56:59 >> I have a chance to walk through that period
00:57:02 and work with the young people in China.
00:57:04 They're all 30 years old and what they need
00:57:07 is a software driven vehicle.
00:57:09 They don't need something like high performance,
00:57:12 mechanical, superb, nothing.
00:57:15 >> Right, interesting.
00:57:16 >> They want the full experience, okay.
00:57:18 So then, let's bring it back to MIH.
00:57:19 So MIH now is a, it's a consortium
00:57:22 backed by Hon Hai Precision Company Limited
00:57:25 and Foxconn to essentially do the contract
00:57:30 manufacturing of these new EV software
00:57:33 defined vehicles for basically anybody, right?
00:57:36 If we, Johnny and I want to come build a car,
00:57:38 we say, hey, we got a lot of money,
00:57:40 we want to build a car that does X, Y, and Z,
00:57:43 and you are going to say, ah, looks good,
00:57:46 what's your strategy, what's the--
00:57:48 >> Yeah, we could say that we want to hold this many people,
00:57:50 go this far, and this is the price point,
00:57:54 and then you, is that accurate?
00:57:56 >> Let me explain a little bit.
00:57:58 >> Yeah, please.
00:57:59 >> MIH stands for minimization, which is a simple,
00:58:02 like iPhone, and intrinsic,
00:58:05 it's a substance, and then harmony.
00:58:07 The idea of MIH started from young,
00:58:11 young little children and me was like,
00:58:13 we want to build a platform just like the phone.
00:58:17 And it's very simple, easy to use, very software-driven.
00:58:20 Software's going to make more recurring revenue
00:58:23 rather than the platform, you know?
00:58:25 And when we do this, we have to open up
00:58:29 to the other partner to come in
00:58:32 and jump onto development of the vehicle,
00:58:35 particularly on the software.
00:58:36 But if you are seeing us as a drawing of the vehicle,
00:58:41 similarly, we are going to have this foundation
00:58:45 of MIH consortium, so people will be happy
00:58:49 to develop together without really asking
00:58:52 whole bunch of complexity of development cost,
00:58:56 the royalty first.
00:58:57 They will work together, trying to find a solution,
00:59:00 and once the solution is going to be
00:59:04 stuck onto the vehicle, then we can monetize for that.
00:59:08 So this is most of like a open AI idea.
00:59:12 As a non-profit organization,
00:59:14 but it will put people to work together,
00:59:16 and then you can monetize it with chat GPT
00:59:20 or whatever you want, right?
00:59:21 So this is the process.
00:59:23 >> So then, does that mean, how, excuse me,
00:59:27 'cause we are, again, Motor Trend is very much
00:59:28 focused on new cars and we're always,
00:59:30 oh, the styling. >> We like the metal.
00:59:31 >> We're in the metal.
00:59:33 >> But does that mean when you're,
00:59:35 it seems to me like MIH is really about,
00:59:36 it's about the software piece, the platform,
00:59:40 it's platform agnostic.
00:59:41 Does that mean, is it a flexible platform
00:59:43 or is it all dimensionally?
00:59:44 >> It's a flexible platform.
00:59:46 The one that we show in the CES is the first small car.
00:59:50 >> Little city car.
00:59:52 >> Little city car.
00:59:53 We started small because the small is a challenge to do
00:59:57 based on the size, the cost, and also a lot of elements of it.
01:00:02 What we need to do is expand it.
01:00:06 But front end might be carry over,
01:00:08 but you don't get the wheel base.
01:00:12 So you can do a three seater, six seater, nine seater.
01:00:14 We know it's very hard to compete with those B2C brand,
01:00:19 like Tesla or BYD or NIO, at some extent.
01:00:24 But when we look at the B2B market,
01:00:27 those are the customer who are not being served.
01:00:30 The fleet, the logistic company, the big brand for leasing.
01:00:37 So we are really seeing there's a big opportunity
01:00:40 we can tailor made for that.
01:00:41 >> Kia came to a similar conclusion
01:00:44 with their showing here at CES,
01:00:46 with their whole platform beyond vehicle thing.
01:00:49 It's really B2B, there'll be some B2C,
01:00:51 but it's really B2B.
01:00:52 >> And look at the climate change and carbon issue.
01:00:56 >> Yeah, right, it's being driven.
01:00:58 >> The fleet is the contributor to the carbon.
01:01:01 It's not the private driver.
01:01:04 So we have to resolve the problem first.
01:01:06 >> Right, and that is a bigger problem
01:01:09 because private drivers drive an hour a day,
01:01:12 if that, fleets drive constantly.
01:01:15 You buy a van 'cause you're going to do something with it.
01:01:18 >> Exactly, exactly.
01:01:20 >> So let's clarify though, MIH, you said it minimized,
01:01:24 what was it, minimized?
01:01:25 >> Minimization, minimization, and intrinsic, and harmony.
01:01:30 >> But the actual name of the question is mobility--
01:01:34 >> Mobility and harmony.
01:01:35 >> Mobility and harmony.
01:01:36 >> I can name it, I can say, money is here.
01:01:39 (laughing)
01:01:40 I can also say, make it happen.
01:01:42 >> I love it. >> Make it happen.
01:01:43 >> This is great, I love it.
01:01:44 >> Some public teacher is like,
01:01:46 okay, this supposed to be made in Hong Hai.
01:01:48 (laughing)
01:01:50 Whatever you want to say.
01:01:51 >> Right, right, right.
01:01:52 Very flexible.
01:01:53 >> New, very new startup consortium, new idea.
01:01:58 This audience is primarily North American.
01:02:01 What does it mean to the American market?
01:02:04 When might we see something from MIH?
01:02:09 >> I think for MIH as a consortium,
01:02:11 it's a global foundation.
01:02:14 And we see North America will be our next step.
01:02:19 We're going to have to put our foot on the ground
01:02:21 in Asia Pacific first.
01:02:23 Smaller car, serve the needs of different countries.
01:02:27 But when you come to US, US is a very challenging market
01:02:32 to be in, as you know.
01:02:32 >> For a lot of reasons, yeah.
01:02:34 >> I have all the respect for our Korean friend,
01:02:37 Vietnam friend, they coming here trying to
01:02:40 take a piece of it.
01:02:41 But for us, we would like to serve
01:02:43 the B2B customer better.
01:02:47 So we have to make sure all our solution
01:02:50 is hunky-dory before we come.
01:02:52 >> And so, reading between the lines,
01:02:54 you're going to focus, when we see an MIH product,
01:02:58 it'll probably be in the transit space
01:03:01 and in commerce and business to business
01:03:04 rather than a Model 3 competitor.
01:03:07 >> We have to make the standardization
01:03:09 and modularization right.
01:03:11 For instance, our motor, if you are commonizing
01:03:16 the starter and also the so-called,
01:03:20 all the housing, you want to minimize your tooling.
01:03:24 So you have 40 kilowatt, 60, 80, 100,
01:03:28 so people can pick and choose what they want.
01:03:30 >> Right, just add more battery packs.
01:03:32 >> Yeah, and the form factor is to make sure
01:03:35 the battery spec, I don't mind the sale,
01:03:38 the pouch, or even solid state in the future,
01:03:42 but the form factor, just like a computer industry,
01:03:45 you have to make it right.
01:03:46 So when the B2B customer come to us and say,
01:03:49 "Okay, I want this size, I want to take so much cargo,"
01:03:54 I give it to him, right.
01:03:55 >> Right, exactly right.
01:03:56 Okay, yeah, that makes sense.
01:03:58 All right, we're running out of time,
01:03:58 we're getting some high-signed signals over here.
01:04:01 Just a couple more questions.
01:04:02 >> What kind of guitars do you play?
01:04:03 >> Well, hey, no, no, no, that was the last one.
01:04:06 >> Oh, I thought when you say--
01:04:07 >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:04:09 You are in a very unique position,
01:04:11 and in that you have worked, again,
01:04:13 for American companies, for multinationals,
01:04:16 you had a long career in China, you're now back in Taiwan.
01:04:20 The burning question on everybody's mind in America
01:04:23 is when are we going to see some of these
01:04:25 Chinese car companies, some of the neos of the world,
01:04:29 the X-Planes, the BYDs, do you have any insights,
01:04:31 is there anything you can tell us?
01:04:34 We are very happy and honored to have you here.
01:04:37 You're the second Chinese car company executive
01:04:41 that we've been able to get, and everybody's been like,
01:04:44 "Mm-mm-mm."
01:04:45 So is there, I'm hopeful that because you're now in Taiwan,
01:04:49 and you're like, you're kind of retired,
01:04:50 you'd be like, "Yeah, yeah, I can tell you everything."
01:04:52 >> Spill it.
01:04:53 >> Well, I would say that our experience
01:04:58 in Japan Mobility Show, we were in the same forum,
01:05:03 BYD was there, but it take a lot of impact
01:05:07 into Toyota and Honda and those guys.
01:05:11 As a Taiwanese, we are there as well,
01:05:13 we have a small, cute, you know, X3 vehicle,
01:05:18 and they're saying, "Oh, it fit Japanese market well."
01:05:22 >> It would, yeah.
01:05:23 >> And I try to be very user-friendly,
01:05:27 and it's not invading.
01:05:29 So when we come over, we would like to be part
01:05:33 of the society, and then we help resolve
01:05:37 not only the customer's issue,
01:05:39 also the environmental issue.
01:05:41 So I think for us, in next couple years,
01:05:45 we'll start to turn up, because also
01:05:47 FastConnect production site in Ohio,
01:05:50 and also in Wisconsin.
01:05:51 >> Wisconsin, yeah, yeah.
01:05:52 >> So we have the opportunity to come here.
01:05:55 >> Oh, right.
01:05:55 >> We can ask FastConnect to do contract manufacturing
01:05:58 for the vehicle that we design.
01:06:00 >> That's right, and that's, I'm assuming
01:06:03 the way FastConnect's set up,
01:06:04 it's easy to say, "Make a vehicle now."
01:06:06 >> Yeah, yeah, because FastConnect is so good
01:06:09 at manufacturing.
01:06:10 >> Right, even in Ohio and Wisconsin.
01:06:12 >> Yeah, but then FastConnect is also having
01:06:15 this MIH consortium started with the design,
01:06:18 so we're not just doing another phone,
01:06:21 we're doing something that will be a wide brand,
01:06:24 but whoever want it, we can work out with it.
01:06:27 Okay, so, good enough?
01:06:30 >> Yeah.
01:06:30 >> I think we should start a car company.
01:06:31 >> Yes, we should.
01:06:32 (laughing)
01:06:33 >> So, no, John, so you love--
01:06:34 >> Built in Wisconsin.
01:06:35 >> What, you're a musician.
01:06:36 >> I got a Washburn, I got a Gibson,
01:06:39 I got a Fender, you name it, I have 20 guitars.
01:06:43 >> 20, that's pretty good.
01:06:44 >> Yeah, I have also bass, I got a Fender bass.
01:06:46 >> Fender bass, I play Warwick.
01:06:48 >> Yeah, I got a Martin D48 acoustic, so you name it,
01:06:53 I have a bass guitar.
01:06:55 >> And what do you like to play, who's your favorite?
01:06:58 >> I did the Zeppelin, I did the Purple,
01:07:01 but I talk to the kids now, they say, "Who are they?"
01:07:04 (laughing)
01:07:05 >> Don't worry about, the kids are all wrong
01:07:07 about everything, except for software-defined vehicles.
01:07:09 >> And then, last question, what car do you drive?
01:07:14 What do you drive at home?
01:07:16 >> I was about to get one of our vehicle,
01:07:18 it's the new car in Taiwan, called Luxgen N7,
01:07:23 which is the first electric car that Fast Car launch.
01:07:29 >> Okay.
01:07:29 >> I have, back in China, I still have my Nio.
01:07:36 In my experience, when I was at four, I told my son,
01:07:41 at four, it's the best car in the world.
01:07:44 They said, "Yeah, right, that, let's drive the Mustang."
01:07:47 And then, when I moved to Fiat, they said,
01:07:50 "That is four still the best car in the world."
01:07:52 I said, "Hmm, maybe Fiat."
01:07:54 >> Yeah, right, right, gotcha.
01:07:56 >> I always drive the car that I built.
01:07:59 >> Good, okay.
01:08:00 >> So that's the thing.
01:08:01 >> Great, that's good.
01:08:02 >> Awesome. >> All right, awesome.
01:08:03 >> Well, listen, this was great, I have so much more
01:08:06 to ask you, but we're out of time.
01:08:07 I would love to chat with you again,
01:08:09 anytime you're in Los Angeles, please come and visit us.
01:08:12 We're going to try to come out and to,
01:08:15 we're going to try to go to China, to Taiwan,
01:08:17 and check things out, so we'll be sure to reach out.
01:08:19 >> Welcome to Taiwan.
01:08:20 >> Okay, would love to go.
01:08:21 >> See you there.
01:08:22 >> Absolutely.
01:08:23 >> Thank you very much.
01:08:24 >> Great. >> This was great.
01:08:25 >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you, John.
01:08:25 >> Yeah, thank you.
01:08:26 >> Thank you.
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01:08:52 inspired by the future, designed for the now.
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