Converting Classics with Moment Motor Company Founder & CEO Marc Davis

MotorTrend

MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman chat with Moment Motor Company Founder & CEO

Transcript

00:00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.

00:00:15Hi there, and welcome to The Inevitable.

00:00:18This is Motor Trend's podcast, our vodcast about the future of the automobile,

00:00:23the future of transportation and the future of the old car sitting in your garage.

00:00:29That's right.

00:00:29But before we get into that, this guy, Ed Lowe, has a special message just for you.

00:00:35The Inevitable Vodcast is brought to you by the all electric Nissan Aria,

00:00:39inspired by the future designed for the now.

00:00:42And right now, we're actually just going to dive in

00:00:45because I don't have a question this week.

00:00:47You guys need to start sending us more questions. Keep them coming.

00:00:51But we're going to talk to a family friend, a friend of my brother.

00:00:54My brother, Elliot, met this guy.

00:00:57They worked and lived together in Austin, Texas, 20, more than 20 years ago.

00:01:03And he is the founder, CEO of Moment Motors.

00:01:08These guys, they basically

00:01:11make cool old cars into electric cars.

00:01:16And the engines out. Right.

00:01:19Fascinating story. Fascinating guy.

00:01:22Quite a modest dude.

00:01:23I think you'll hear him talk a lot about the vehicles he preps and how much he loves.

00:01:28And it's very clear the passion comes through.

00:01:31But, you know, he's a friend of at least one other guest that we've had on before,

00:01:35Jonathan Ward of Icon, who I've talked to a couple of times about Mark.

00:01:39And he's like, man, this guy's he's I said, like, oh, he's this guy.

00:01:42He's like, I think I'm I don't know how exactly I framed it.

00:01:46But John was quick to correct me.

00:01:47He's not he's more of a peer to me, which I think is speaks very highly of Mark.

00:01:52Look, Jonathan is not impressed by anybody.

00:01:54So if he's impressed by anybody, that's an impressive person. OK. Yeah.

00:01:58So without further ado, let's talk to Mark Davis, founder, CEO of Moment Motors.

00:02:05So at long last, the man, the myth, the legend, Mark Davis, founder, CEO,

00:02:09Moment Motors straight out of Austin, Texas.

00:02:12Thank you so much for coming on, taking time out of your busy schedule.

00:02:15I hijacked you on this one because you are out here actually in support of our

00:02:20other friend and former inevitable guest,

00:02:24Jonathan Ward.

00:02:25We love Jonathan. Jonathan, a good friend of Icon master.

00:02:30We call him Restomator. Is that OK?

00:02:32I mean, he's so much more than that.

00:02:33But yeah, I'd say retro, retro designer.

00:02:36But you're in town to support his charitable event. Yeah.

00:02:40But also because you have a number of clients all over the country

00:02:45who like your vision around converting

00:02:50a cool cars into electric vehicles.

00:02:53Absolutely. Yeah, it's great to be here. Finally. Yeah.

00:02:57So do I have that correct?

00:02:58This is how do you describe Moment Motors?

00:03:00We are fundamentally a conversion company, right?

00:03:04So we are taking client cars and we're converting them into electric vehicles.

00:03:07And that's our that's our primary thing.

00:03:09We don't do the restoration.

00:03:11We don't do any sort of, you know, we do some cosmetics and stuff like that.

00:03:15But our primary focus is on the drive train.

00:03:18Can I ask one question? Sure.

00:03:20Why? Why? Why do you do this?

00:03:22You know, people ask that question a lot.

00:03:25And certainly, you know, when we started this and we still get it

00:03:28a lot of vomit emojis on what we do, right?

00:03:30Like there's a fair amount of that, a lot of hate out there.

00:03:34I can say that almost everybody who says that or ask that question

00:03:37has never driven one of these cars.

00:03:39And I think, you know, the the motivations of our clients are very, very broad.

00:03:44A lot of people want to do it,

00:03:47you know, because of the maintenance on an ancient drive train.

00:03:50A lot of people want to do it for the environmental impact.

00:03:52But like, fundamentally, it's better.

00:03:56I hate to say it in the end.

00:03:58It is better. No one should believe that.

00:03:59No, no, no.

00:04:01But I say just come and drive them and you'll see.

00:04:04And that's really what we do.

00:04:05We're we're fundamentally we're preservationists, right?

00:04:07Like we people don't believe that.

00:04:09But what we're doing is we're keeping these cars on the road

00:04:11and we're making them a better driving experience to find better.

00:04:14Why is it better in all aspects? Right.

00:04:17I mean, it's more powerful.

00:04:18It's, you know, smoother power delivery all across the you know, across the board.

00:04:22You have better reliability.

00:04:24You have it's kind of strange to say.

00:04:27I understand that a lot of the you know, the soul of the car

00:04:29that people talk about is that is the engine noise and things like that.

00:04:32That does you do lose that.

00:04:34But it's not totally silent and it's got its own personality.

00:04:37And it's a really enjoyable drive.

00:04:39I think, you know, when you when you think about driving a classic every day,

00:04:44this is the best way to do it.

00:04:45It really is.

00:04:46Let's let's make this a little more real for the people listening.

00:04:49What are we talking about?

00:04:50What's your flagship product?

00:04:51Would you say?

00:04:52We do a lot of the Pagoda SLs.

00:04:54We've done a lot of Mercedes Benz Pagoda SL.

00:04:55Yeah, we do a lot of 911s.

00:04:57We do a lot of little speedster replicas and things like that.

00:05:01What do you mean by a lot?

00:05:01How many vehicles have you done so far?

00:05:04We are small volume.

00:05:05And I think that that's that's, you know, that's definitely

00:05:07I don't mean as a diss, I mean, but but you've been around for a little while now.

00:05:10We have. We've been around since 2017.

00:05:12And, you know, a lot of it was kind of developing all of this.

00:05:15We've done over 25 different platforms. Right.

00:05:17So when you think about different vehicles, things like that, we've done

00:05:21we've done a lot.

00:05:21Did I see a 280ZX?

00:05:23Yeah, that was one of our first.

00:05:24Yeah, that's so cool.

00:05:26Excuse me. There's also a Hilux.

00:05:28There is there is the Hilux in storage that also cool.

00:05:32But I just I just never seen an electric 280ZX.

00:05:35I was like, that's really neat.

00:05:38That was one of those ones that I when we did the first one, it was a cherry.

00:05:42It's actually if you look at it, it's a two plus two.

00:05:44Yeah, which is a very rare car.

00:05:45And my dad. Yeah.

00:05:46Sorry. My dad had a 280Z two plus two.

00:05:48Yeah, it's and I think a lot of people call them ugly ducklings.

00:05:51Right. They're not really that great when you do them right.

00:05:53And you get the stance right.

00:05:54Oh, yeah. But you put the early bumpers on them, put the Gino's phenomenal.

00:05:58Right. And that car was one of those ones where I always thought, man,

00:06:02this I hope we do more of these, because when you're doing it, it was hilarious.

00:06:06We're doing the conversion and you're you're thinking there like it's almost

00:06:09as if those engineers were like, we should do it this way

00:06:12just in case somebody wants to convert these to an electric vehicle.

00:06:15Like it was comical.

00:06:16We were like, this is set up perfectly.

00:06:17Why? Why was it set up just everything?

00:06:19I mean, I could go through all the, you know, the 90 second.

00:06:23Why? Well, it just it makes it what makes it a candidate.

00:06:26It's a great candidate because of the the engine bay room.

00:06:30All of you know, there's tons of room to put what you what you need up there.

00:06:33The transmission tunnel is really well kind of shaped.

00:06:35You've got enough room to put the componentry in there.

00:06:40The balance of the car, when it's all done, really works well.

00:06:43I think just the the cockpit, the way it feels when you've got the gauges in there,

00:06:46I think it just everything kind of fell into place on that car.

00:06:49I really love it.

00:06:50And that's where the cars in Texas, their cars in Austin.

00:06:53Yeah, it's one of our earliest ones.

00:06:54I think that was our third car we did.

00:06:57Yeah, it's in it still there.

00:06:58Oh, yeah. Still drives.

00:06:59And I think it's a it's a customer car.

00:07:01Yeah, it's a customer car. Yeah.

00:07:03I'd love to check that out. Yeah.

00:07:04It's you know, it does bring up the interesting point about the evolution

00:07:08of all of this. Right.

00:07:09So that car is one of our earlier cars.

00:07:11And if you think back all the way back to 2017,

00:07:15you know, the components that were available were not really,

00:07:19you know, cutting edge state of the art.

00:07:21I mean, when you're trying to convert a car in 2017,

00:07:24it was a lot of like forklift parts and, you know, mining vehicle parts.

00:07:29In other words, you're finding a crashed Tesla and so that came next.

00:07:34Right. So these are earlier, even earlier than that.

00:07:36You literally need a forklift. Yeah.

00:07:38Like literally. I mean, not really.

00:07:40I thought you meant going to a junkyard and picking up a dead

00:07:43old, like an awful forklift.

00:07:45I'm kidding a little bit.

00:07:46But the you know, the motors that we used to use were not intended,

00:07:50you know, for that for that purpose necessarily. Right.

00:07:52And so then we kind of went into this era where all of these

00:07:57people just crashing Teslas all the time. Sure.

00:07:58And when you finally get access to kind of

00:08:02to Tesla componentry, you realize just how superior things were.

00:08:07And even in, you know,

00:08:10in salvage form, they were far superior to what anything was available,

00:08:15you know, on the in the marketplace. Right.

00:08:17Well, let's let's let's dig in there just a little bit.

00:08:18So the you were using forklift motors.

00:08:22So no. So I want to hear.

00:08:23I feel bad because there's a company that was making the motor

00:08:25and they probably upset.

00:08:27Well, let's talk about like 2017 to 20.

00:08:31And then what you were doing in 2020 and then what you're doing now.

00:08:33So so early days you were using forklift motors.

00:08:38Your batteries were what?

00:08:39There are a lot of lithium iron phosphate batteries out of kind of

00:08:42a lot of them are being made by typically Chinese companies

00:08:46for mining vehicles and things like that.

00:08:48A lot of a lot of you can't run it.

00:08:50You can't run an internal combustion engine underground.

00:08:52Right. Those were the those are the criteria. OK.

00:08:55And then then just a lot of I feel like a fair amount of not a fair amount.

00:08:59Like the the number of EV

00:09:03modification outfits started to take off in that time frame with

00:09:07as Tesla parts became Model 3 started crashing.

00:09:10I think actually mostly Model S.

00:09:12Oh, really? So we can talk.

00:09:15So if we go we go back, we're not the first people to do this.

00:09:18People know. Right.

00:09:19People knew this forever.

00:09:20And mostly it was people, you know, kind of do just dudes in their garage.

00:09:24Wasn't it a screw big oil?

00:09:26You know, they're like, I want to drive to.

00:09:28That's how Tesla started. Exactly.

00:09:29And I think that they were. Yes.

00:09:31So he was probably is one of the one of the pioneers.

00:09:34And it's mostly the hippie, the VW guys, the VWs.

00:09:37That's a that's a very popular conversion.

00:09:39It's a very easy one to do.

00:09:40And so that, you know, that existed for a long time.

00:09:45And we got into it.

00:09:46That era was starting to to to, you know, to Peter out, taper out. Right.

00:09:51And so what we and as I said, it was the availability of Tesla parts

00:09:56really was the kind of the changing, you know, factor in all of that.

00:10:01Starting with Model S Model S and honestly, mostly ending with Model S.

00:10:05And the reason for that is the Model S battery pack is actually modular.

00:10:09So if you open up a Model S battery pack is 16 modules.

00:10:12They are about 24 inches long, 12 inches wide.

00:10:15So in other words, if you have a Mercedes Pagoda, yeah, which is real small.

00:10:19Yeah. You can't put a Model three battery pack in.

00:10:22You can't pull the pouches out of.

00:10:25So in the in the Tesla in the Tesla world, once the three and the Y came out,

00:10:30they went to I think it's four different modules and they're like six or seven feet long.

00:10:35There's really no way to do it.

00:10:36People have done it right.

00:10:37They've pulled them apart and they've and they've shoved them

00:10:39into the tunnel of certain cars and stuff like that.

00:10:41But it's a real effort.

00:10:42And you have to do a lot of destructive modification to the car to do that. Right.

00:10:46And really, back to my point about preservation, we don't want to do that.

00:10:49It's like first do no harm.

00:10:50And so you need kind of a modular battery to do this so that you can put it in boxes

00:10:54and you can fit it in the two places where you really have room in a classic car,

00:10:58which is the engine bay in the trunk. Right.

00:11:00And so the Model S pack lended itself for that.

00:11:03It had excellent energy density.

00:11:05So you're able to you know, the first ones were, you know, you're able to get five point four,

00:11:09you know, in theory, kilowatt hours out of each module.

00:11:13And then the later ones, it was six point four kilowatt hours out of them.

00:11:17And so those were really, really great batteries.

00:11:20And the other piece of it is if you think of a Model S,

00:11:23it's you know, that's a thousand pounds of battery. Right.

00:11:27And so we can't put those batteries into a 911 or something.

00:11:33That's just too much. It's too much weight, too much space.

00:11:35You can't fit it all.

00:11:36So the thing that the Model S and the modular approach to those to those battery

00:11:41to those battery packs helped with is you could cut them down

00:11:44and you could say, I'm going to use five of them or use seven of them.

00:11:48When you do that, you're knocking down the operating voltage of the system.

00:11:52And so you have to find something that is not a 400 volt system to run off of that.

00:11:57So your motor and your and your inverter have to run at a lower voltage.

00:12:01And so that's why you'd end up using you kind of pair the the Model S,

00:12:05you know, partial pack with a with a with a different motor

00:12:08that operated at a lower voltage.

00:12:10And that's how you might get it all together.

00:12:12The other the flip side is and in the early days,

00:12:14if you had a vehicle large enough that could hold the full pack,

00:12:17then you could take the Model S drive unit and put that in it.

00:12:20Slap it in, which are great driving.

00:12:22They are fantastic.

00:12:23And we still use them today in certain vehicles for the right one.

00:12:26It's funny, we were thinking about this the other day.

00:12:29Like if you think about when the Model S came on the market,

00:12:33they were trying to knock the ball so far out of the park

00:12:35to just get rid of everybody's doubts and everything.

00:12:39They whoever did it, whoever designed that drive unit.

00:12:42I mean, just hit it would have been fantastic.

00:12:46Peter Rawlinson, but also we got a guy coming in next week

00:12:50or two weeks from now who had a lot to do with it, too.

00:12:53So a lot of fathers, what is it?

00:12:55Successful fathers. Yeah.

00:12:57But like if you think about it, the way that modern EVs

00:13:00hit their their their power and torque goals,

00:13:03it's always dual motors now. Right.

00:13:05And so back then they were trying to get so much out of a single.

00:13:09Nobody makes something like the LDU now anymore.

00:13:11It's it is really unique in the in the, you know, in the world.

00:13:15So that was a really powerful, you know, power plant.

00:13:18But the other thing about it, and this is this is something

00:13:21I'd love to talk about is it's not great for almost every classic car. Right.

00:13:27Like it is stuff.

00:13:28It's well, if you think about that, how it's set up, it is set up as a drive unit.

00:13:32It has a motor and inverter attached to a gearbox.

00:13:35And that gearbox is a single nine point seven three to one ratio gearbox.

00:13:39And out of it are two output flanges for CV joints to go to axles.

00:13:44So if you don't have an independent rear suspension

00:13:47or you do and you don't have enough room for that giant drive unit,

00:13:51you're hacking everything.

00:13:53And in fact, most of the time, if you've got a solid axle car

00:13:56turning it into a an independent, it's it's kind of not.

00:14:00It's just possible, but it's just destructive. Right. Yeah.

00:14:02Now, so that's the rear Tesla drive units massive. Yes.

00:14:06And you said you're doing like pagodas, which are tiny little things.

00:14:11I saw you doing Porsche Speedsters.

00:14:14We mean three, five, six, five, 50 spiders, miniature cars.

00:14:18So what are you using now? So you can't do that. Right.

00:14:20So so that's what I you know, so once these Tesla components were available,

00:14:25there was like, oh, Tesla swapped the world. It's amazing.

00:14:27And in reality, it doesn't fit in a lot of vehicles.

00:14:31It's not the right solution.

00:14:32It's great for Porsches, right, because it's a rear engine, rear wheel drive car.

00:14:36You can put all that in there.

00:14:37And I love it. Yes. Yes.

00:14:39Not the nine like the nine twenty four or twenty eight.

00:14:41But actually, you can do it.

00:14:43The transaxle cars usually can't use the LDU,

00:14:46but you can use the Model three to you or the small view.

00:14:49And so you can make that happen.

00:14:50But usually you use drive unit. Yes.

00:14:52So there's large driving.

00:14:54I'm already doing the lingo. It's fine.

00:14:57But if you but if you look at a traditional classic car,

00:15:00even an independent rear suspension car, if you're trying to do no harm,

00:15:03if you're trying not to to, you know, to cut it up and modify it,

00:15:07that is not a good solution for any of them.

00:15:09So what's a good solution?

00:15:10A good solution is you need to have a powerful motor

00:15:13that is possibly gear reduced right at the at the motor,

00:15:17but not as much as you would between two wheels.

00:15:20So as we talked about, the LDU is a nine point seven three to one

00:15:23because those axles are coming out or sorry, the driveshafts

00:15:25are coming out at wheel speed. Right.

00:15:27So if you're going to go put it in what we typically do with the classic,

00:15:30like in those pagodas, there's a motor in the transmission tunnel

00:15:34and it's connecting to the driveshaft and driving the rest of the car

00:15:37through its its existing drivetrain. Right.

00:15:40And so that is typically what we're doing on a lot of our cars.

00:15:44And so you get a higher performance motor, not higher, but high performance

00:15:49electric motor in the transmission tunnel.

00:15:50Where are you getting this motor?

00:15:52So we typically use motors from a company called Cascadia.

00:15:55Yep. And so Cascadia is based up in the Cascadia.

00:16:00But inside those motors, it's a BorgWarner core like that motor is a

00:16:04it's a time tested old, like very traditional forklift motor.

00:16:08It is not, but it's it's a great little motor.

00:16:11It's not I shouldn't say little. It's pretty it's pretty hefty.

00:16:14But, you know, the size of it is probably it's like an 11 inch diameter motor.

00:16:18And it's like maybe similar.

00:16:19So it's almost that square, if you will.

00:16:21But at 400 volts with their kind of their normal run of the mill inverter,

00:16:27you can get about three hundred and seventy five foot pounds of torque

00:16:29and about 300 horsepower out of it.

00:16:31And when you and it's instant electric torque. Right.

00:16:33So I think everybody does this, you know, comparison, especially in a classic car

00:16:37where they say, oh, well, it's got to make this much horsepower

00:16:40and this much torque because they're comparing to the traditional drivetrain.

00:16:42But this is right. It's different.

00:16:45Tire rack dot com is your place for the best selection of tires from top brands.

00:16:49Always fast and free shipping and multiple convenient installation options.

00:16:54They also stay on the cutting edge of the tire industry.

00:16:56Their world class tire testing program is truth serum for tires.

00:17:01EV focused tires, products with noise cancelling technology.

00:17:04They've tested it all to help you make the best decision before buying

00:17:07tire rack dot com, the way tire buying should be.

00:17:11Like if you think about a car like a Mercedes Pagoda, for instance,

00:17:15you know, what's what's bad about it? Right.

00:17:18And it was like it was like it was a sluggish transmission.

00:17:23Yeah. Like there was a couple with a manual.

00:17:25But that was this little tiny, delicate little thing.

00:17:28Most were automatics, I think.

00:17:30And it made no power.

00:17:32It was it was it was kind of a carryover motor.

00:17:35I'll tell you a story. Yeah, please.

00:17:36So I have a client that just purchased a fully

00:17:41beautifully restored Arthur Bechtel Mercedes Pagoda to it.

00:17:45These are high dollar restoration cars, right?

00:17:48Really high. Flawless.

00:17:50Gets it home, drives it and calls me and says, I hate this.

00:17:53This thing is like the power is terrible.

00:17:56I have to floor it every time I want to get out of anywhere.

00:17:58And this is a 280, right? This is the biggest motor.

00:18:00You say that about 230 or 250, but this is a 280.

00:18:03He hated it. And then when he's on the highway and he's got it in,

00:18:06you know, in the highway, there is droning and it takes away everything.

00:18:11So he comes down to check out the car and just to drive one of ours.

00:18:16And within like three minutes, he's driving and he looks and he's like,

00:18:19this is what it was meant to be.

00:18:21Right. And he's like, I'm done. Right.

00:18:23So he's going to take this.

00:18:25We're going to take it.

00:18:25We're going to pull that engine out and we're going to convert it

00:18:27because that's what that car was meant to.

00:18:30And I firmly believe if we went back in time in the 60s

00:18:32and we're designing that car and somebody said, hey, here's this power plant.

00:18:36It's electric.

00:18:37Mercedes would have said, perfect, let's put it in.

00:18:40And they would they would never look back.

00:18:41So are you is is it completely non-destructive?

00:18:44Can you is it reversible?

00:18:45What you're totally reversible.

00:18:46Nobody's going to reverse it, though.

00:18:48But you said it a couple of times.

00:18:50I was just I just spent the weekend with Rolls Royce.

00:18:52And, you know, like I think personally, if you if you get them in a room alone,

00:18:57the people that work there, they're like, oh, I don't care, you know, but

00:19:00but publicly they're just like, yeah, Rolls Royce probably always should have

00:19:03been electric because it's silent, it's torquey and no odors at all.

00:19:08It's just, you know, and this is what our we've always

00:19:11we've had to take a V12 and like soundproof it.

00:19:15Yeah, it's a really noisy engine, actually.

00:19:17But, you know, we've just soundproofed the hell out of it.

00:19:19So now it's electric, easy and we have more space.

00:19:22Yeah. You think of the ethos of Rolls Royce.

00:19:24I mean, it is exactly what it could be.

00:19:26And a three and a Pagoda is not a sporty car.

00:19:30It was never meant to be a sporty car.

00:19:32For some reason, they were they were getting away from the going

00:19:34and the 300 S.O. Roadster.

00:19:36Yeah. And it was kind of, you know, stuff.

00:19:38I don't say stuffy, but it was it was just a good looking thing

00:19:43that had a really weak drivetrain.

00:19:44It's one of my favorite cars that we do.

00:19:47They're gorgeous to drive. Yeah.

00:19:48Because it's dropped it gorgeous.

00:19:50And you just feel like a million dollars driving that car.

00:19:53But it is so smooth and so delightful after the conversion,

00:19:56like finger tipping everything around.

00:19:58You've got everything full air conditioning, full power steering.

00:20:01Everything is works as design.

00:20:03It's an absolute monster on the highway.

00:20:06We can't gear it so much.

00:20:08It's they usually have open diffs and there's very rare to get a

00:20:11to get a LSD in that car.

00:20:13And so you're I mean, you're ripping the tires off if you have too much torque.

00:20:16So we hear it. We actually don't use a gearbox.

00:20:18We use the differential, which is four point one.

00:20:21But we put enough power through it that it works out great

00:20:23and it doesn't, you know, with the tires.

00:20:25But when you're on the highway, you want to pass something, man,

00:20:27just push that pedal down and you are sailing, which is

00:20:30which is opposite of the normal Pagoda experience.

00:20:33I just had a bunch.

00:20:34So I just want to put a button on the on the where you're at now.

00:20:37So you're you're still using Model S batteries?

00:20:41No. Well, I should say it's always an evolution, right?

00:20:45But primarily, no.

00:20:46So when we go back to that kind of conversation about how it's evolved.

00:20:49So we go from, you know, industrial.

00:20:51Let's say that's a forklift motor, industrial type of inherited stuff.

00:20:55And then you go into the to the, you know, to the Tesla,

00:20:58you know, you know, salvage parts, if you will.

00:21:02What happened was I mean, the reason we were using Tesla salvage parts

00:21:05is because that was really the only competitive electric vehicle on them

00:21:09on the market for a long time.

00:21:10Numbers that where they were going to be wrecked and you could get them right.

00:21:14So then all of a sudden everybody's making EVs and not just the

00:21:18you know, the OEMs here that we see in the States, but in China,

00:21:22there's all sorts of, you know, electric buses and electric, you name it.

00:21:24And so what happens is now the supply chain is full

00:21:28of solutions that are comparable.

00:21:31I'm not going to say they're better or worse than what Tesla's got out there.

00:21:34But for our purposes, but you don't have to go to a junkyard.

00:21:38Don't go to a junkyard.

00:21:38I can get something new.

00:21:40You get new batteries that are a different form.

00:21:42So that's an advantage.

00:21:43Yeah. See, see ATL.

00:21:45So it's some of those, let's say we usually use

00:21:49cells from a company called Calcium LB Calb.

00:21:52They're like the third biggest battery producer.

00:21:55And this is you're kind of locked out of the ATL like due to numbers.

00:21:59I mean, this is a small industry, right?

00:22:01So you can't you know, I'm not buying thousands of modules at a time.

00:22:06So I saw something really interesting on your website, and that is you can leave

00:22:10the manual transmission in some of these.

00:22:13So in other words, you have electric power that you that is going through

00:22:16the existing gearbox and you're interrupting it with a clutch.

00:22:19How's that work? And why?

00:22:21It's funny. I get asked that question all the time.

00:22:23And everybody thinks it's some sort of it's sorcery.

00:22:26It's actually kind of the easiest way to do it.

00:22:28If you think about it, if you don't overthink it,

00:22:30you know, an engine spins, an electric motor spins.

00:22:33If you take the engine out and you put an electric motor,

00:22:35everything operates as usual, right? I get that.

00:22:38I'm saying why? Right.

00:22:39And so so the and the reason we did it in the early days

00:22:43is because we didn't have access to powerful enough motors to eliminate it.

00:22:47Right. And so a lot of the early conversions, you know,

00:22:51you're dealing with a, you know, 150 foot pounds of torque, 150 horsepower.

00:22:55If you wanted to get you needed the mechanical.

00:22:56You needed the gears. Exactly.

00:22:58So it also preserved the driving experience, which is which is kind of it.

00:23:03As you pointed out, zero reason to leave it in a pagoda.

00:23:06That that box was terrible.

00:23:08It's like a box of rocks. And it was awful. Right.

00:23:11And so but I get a lot of this request from like Porsche owners. Right.

00:23:16And so, you know, the Porsche that, you know, you drove with the

00:23:20with the Tesla drive unit. Yeah. Everybody's a company. Yeah.

00:23:23That is a different experience than driving a typical Porsche.

00:23:26It's a point and go.

00:23:27It feels like you end up it ends up feeling like a Tesla in some sense.

00:23:32I mean, it's certainly around.

00:23:33I would I would argue it feels like, let's say, a 911 turbo.

00:23:37Automatic PDK without the shift.

00:23:40I know you're sorry. Yeah.

00:23:41Definitely not the same performance as a as a as a as a Tesla.

00:23:45It doesn't feel like a 930 back in the day. I agree.

00:23:48And yes, we could talk about doing that. Right. Yes.

00:23:51So I think that part of Porsche owners

00:23:56typically there's they're typically sports car people.

00:23:58And there's some aspect of the driving experience of rowing your own,

00:24:02finding the gear and and getting the quote unquote most out of the car

00:24:06that that really appeals to them. Right.

00:24:08And those gearboxes, especially the G50, is like a really good gearbox. Right.

00:24:13And so yeah, so there's a desire sometimes from those people to keep that.

00:24:18Do you need it? No, you don't.

00:24:19It's not it's less efficient.

00:24:21It's not like the best way to do it.

00:24:23But again, back to to be focusing on preservation.

00:24:27We're not necessarily doing this for efficiency.

00:24:29We're doing this for the enjoyment of driving this car. Right.

00:24:31But with a modern, powerful motor,

00:24:34you'd rip the rear end out of the car. Right.

00:24:37You definitely need to. So just to program. Yeah.

00:24:40So so what you end up doing is, you know, the the the physical piece is simple.

00:24:45Right. Like there's a there's a, you know, a coupler on the end of the motor

00:24:49and it presents the same face that the you know, that the output,

00:24:52you know, the crank would out of out of an engine.

00:24:55And then you just, you know, you put all together.

00:24:57Now, you do need to use very like stage three clutches. Right.

00:25:00Because you've got all that torque and it's instant torque.

00:25:03And you're not heating up that that that clutch. Right.

00:25:06So it's getting engaged when it can be completely cold

00:25:08because you're not it's not spinning and you're not you know, you're not

00:25:11you don't slip it.

00:25:12It is a really enjoyable way to drive a manual because you don't

00:25:15you'll never stall it out.

00:25:16You don't have to share the clutch.

00:25:17You can put it in fourth gear and just drive. Right.

00:25:20And so I remember like the like the you know, the like the Corvette zero six.

00:25:26You know, it's great work for days.

00:25:28Oh, Viper Viper can't stall it. Yeah, you can't stall it.

00:25:31So it is good that way.

00:25:33But so but you do have to beep up the transmission or use one that is ready.

00:25:36But you do a programmatic thing where you say like, OK, in first gear,

00:25:4050 percent power if they floor it or whatever.

00:25:43Typically do that. But we do.

00:25:45I think the key interaction is is during shifting. Right.

00:25:48And so what you don't want the weird thing about.

00:25:51So if you think about a combustion engine, when you are driving that car

00:25:55and you let off the gas, there's all that reciprocating mass.

00:25:58There's all that stuff going on.

00:25:59And it drags the car down. Right.

00:26:01And you feel that that feeling of when you let off.

00:26:04And, you know, and it and it kind of it's essentially what we do

00:26:08to mimic it is region. Right.

00:26:10And so what we'll do is we'll dial in the region

00:26:13so that it feels like a tight engine. Right.

00:26:16So it feels like when you when you're in third gear or second gear

00:26:19or fourth or whatever, and you let off.

00:26:21Yeah, it kind of drags you down.

00:26:22So that's part of that driving experience.

00:26:23But what I'm saying is you're not limiting torque in gear.

00:26:25We're not. We're not.

00:26:26And so then you're just limiting overall power.

00:26:29Well, on the manual, we don't we will not limit the power.

00:26:33But what we will do is when the when the driver puts in the clutch,

00:26:36the challenge is if you've got all that region on the program

00:26:40in the motor and you are into the inverter, you when you push in that clutch,

00:26:45that motor, because it doesn't have any sort of, you know, mass.

00:26:48And, you know, there's no pistons or anything like that.

00:26:50We'll go to zero RPM in like a second.

00:26:53So if you if you just leave it with the amount of region

00:26:57that it requires to feel like an engine and you push in the clutch

00:27:00and it's no longer connected to the drive train, it's going to go to zero RPM

00:27:03and you're going to have to blip the throttle to get the to get that.

00:27:05So what we do is we we sense when the when the driver's

00:27:09pressing in the clutch and we change the region map so that when you

00:27:12when you have your clutch in and you let it fall,

00:27:15the RPMs fall like a like a like a combustion.

00:27:18What I'm asking is, OK, let's say you have an electric motor

00:27:22that makes 300 pound feet of torque.

00:27:24Yeah. And you put it into a 911 where that transmission could handle

00:27:29300 pound feet of torque. Sure.

00:27:30And then you put it into first gear, which is multiplying.

00:27:33It doesn't just rip the transmission.

00:27:35Well, I mean, that is the rear end.

00:27:36That engine at that point in time, you know, the combustion engine

00:27:39could produce 300 pound feet of torque input at any time.

00:27:43OK. Right. Right.

00:27:44And so the transmission usually can handle the input torque.

00:27:47OK. You certainly do. You can't.

00:27:48You got to be careful. Right.

00:27:50You don't want to put 600 pound feet of torque through that.

00:27:52But you have you have EV motors that can do that. Exactly.

00:27:55So you don't go into that.

00:27:56So you match it up appropriately.

00:27:58But the limiting factor is the manual transmission

00:28:00where you could go faster without it.

00:28:02Yes. And so the thing about the the the.

00:28:05So there's a couple of things about the manual transmission.

00:28:07One, you don't want to spend that to, you know, Tesla Motor goes to 18,000 rpm.

00:28:11You can't do that. Yes.

00:28:13There's a lot of bearings and seals in there

00:28:14that aren't going to be very happy with that.

00:28:17But I do think that that when you limit the RPM range

00:28:21so that is in, you know, normal, you can you can do fun things

00:28:23like you don't have to limit it to 6,000 rpm.

00:28:26You limit to 10,000 rpm and you can get the experience

00:28:28like you get with a really high revving car.

00:28:31You put that on the on the gauge. You can. We can do that.

00:28:33We actually that's something we do to preserve the driving experiences.

00:28:35All the gauges, they look the same, but they've been reprinted

00:28:39and they've been, you know, stepper motors behind it and everything like that

00:28:41so that it looks the part.

00:28:43But it's it might show you kilowatts or it might show you a different rpm range

00:28:46or it'll show you state of charge instead of keeping the video

00:28:49and you're changing the numbers.

00:28:51Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's cool. It looks really cool.

00:28:53But so, you know, you should come down, Johnny, and drive.

00:28:56Yeah, we just finished. I don't get it.

00:28:57No, no, no. He's asking the question.

00:28:59Well, yeah, he keeps interrupting.

00:29:01I'm trying to figure out.

00:29:03I'm still stuck on Cascadia.

00:29:06OK, we'll come back.

00:29:07There's the weeds.

00:29:09I want people to care about because we did and we did a nine.

00:29:12We did a sixty six nine twelve.

00:29:14We just did nice, beautifully restored, gorgeous car.

00:29:17And we put a three hundred and fifty foot pound of torque.

00:29:21Yeah, it's three fifty and about three hundred horsepower engine

00:29:25in our motor, sorry, in that car with the manual transmission.

00:29:28Totally rebuilt nine oh one.

00:29:30But it's but it's it's capable.

00:29:32The weakest link in those cars, too.

00:29:33And, you know, if you worry about the transmission,

00:29:35the weakest link is always the tires, right?

00:29:37And so that car, the owner is great.

00:29:40He's he's got a fantastic collection and he's so stoked about this car.

00:29:44We left it with the I mean, it looks stock.

00:29:47Like when you look at it, it's got those skinny little tires,

00:29:49those chrome wheels and stuff like that.

00:29:51And he came down and drove it and took it out.

00:29:53We have one of our guys is he's he drifts.

00:29:56And I always say, hey, Aaron, take the take him out and show what it's

00:30:00what it's capable of doing.

00:30:01And so they go out and and the owner races and does stuff, too.

00:30:06So they go out and they switch.

00:30:07But they were going for forty five minutes.

00:30:09So I'm like, I'm watching the like the clock.

00:30:11I'm like, oh, yeah, they crashed.

00:30:13I don't know what's going on.

00:30:14And they came back and just like laughing hysterically.

00:30:17And they had been erasing those tires,

00:30:19like literally just looking out the side windows, driving it

00:30:23and just howling with laughter.

00:30:24It was so much fun.

00:30:25And he got done and he was like, my expectations have been met tenfold.

00:30:30And he left and he bought us a keg of beer because he was so happy.

00:30:33Because that's that like that's it.

00:30:35Like we preserved the driving experience he wanted.

00:30:37And now it is an ultimate sleeper. Right.

00:30:39That car made what? I don't know.

00:30:41Eighty horsepower.

00:30:42I mean, a hundred and a hundred and ten.

00:30:44I mean, it's twelve, nine, twelve, two.

00:30:46Like maybe it did like, oh, no, sixty six.

00:30:48I mean, it's it might have been it might have been sixty six.

00:30:50Could have been eighty. Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:51I don't know. It's like by seventy.

00:30:53That was a hundred and ten, I think.

00:30:56Yeah, it's a it was a pretty mild car for sure.

00:30:59And now it's it's hysterical.

00:31:01It's one of my favorite cars to drive.

00:31:03It's just nobody suspects it.

00:31:05And it is so flippant.

00:31:06Nine, twelve were the coolest.

00:31:08How much do these conversions cost?

00:31:10Do we have to talk about it?

00:31:12Well, I'm just going to talk about Cascadia.

00:31:14We can start there.

00:31:15So so currently, I'm happy to answer the call.

00:31:19Call the batteries, Cascadia motors.

00:31:20And you're talking this.

00:31:22This is fascinating to me because I know, again,

00:31:25the market got crowded when Tesla started crashing

00:31:28and these batteries became available.

00:31:29But now you've evolved to using all the other batteries

00:31:32that are available.

00:31:33And Cascadia itself has now has like a huge assortment

00:31:37of motors they can provide.

00:31:38Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:39And so you've what do you do?

00:31:41Like you just order.

00:31:42Do you like get like tester?

00:31:44Like can't you send us a couple?

00:31:45We'll try them out and we'll figure out

00:31:46what you should look at the specs or.

00:31:47So we are essentially an integrator.

00:31:51Right. And so we manufacture and make parts

00:31:54that are, you know, that put all these components together.

00:31:57But fundamentally, like we're not designing our own motors.

00:31:59We're not designing our own.

00:32:00Well, we actually have our we have we make our own modules.

00:32:04Now we have them made for us specifically,

00:32:06but they are from available components. Right.

00:32:10So really what we've been doing all these years,

00:32:13like I tell you, we do all these different platforms.

00:32:16It's time on task. Right.

00:32:17I mean, every one of these cars presents a new challenge

00:32:21and you can look at a car and think, oh, that'll be easy

00:32:24because it's just like this car.

00:32:25And then you get into it and you realize it's not right.

00:32:27And so the whole process of converting a car

00:32:30is constantly a learning experience

00:32:31to figure out exactly what works best.

00:32:34Are you saying there's differences

00:32:35like if you're doing pagodas, pagodas are different

00:32:38within the pagoda range?

00:32:39Yeah, that because they're so handmade back in the day.

00:32:42There's that. And there's all sorts of things. Right.

00:32:45So I'll give you an example of the pagoda.

00:32:46So our process, when we get a new car in is, you know,

00:32:49we 3D scan the engine bay, 3D scan the trunk, the tunnel,

00:32:52any place we're going to touch.

00:32:53We want a 3D scanner.

00:32:54We get it in their CAD application

00:32:56and then we're dropping in our tested,

00:32:59you know, kind of our set of motors that we're comfortable with,

00:33:02that we know work and perform.

00:33:03Our battery boxes that we've designed,

00:33:05they're, you know, they're modular,

00:33:06but we have, you know, five or six different

00:33:08different shapes and sizes that we can use.

00:33:10And we're seeing what will fit.

00:33:11And when you get it into the scan,

00:33:13it's really one of these things where the boxes might

00:33:15you might have to scooch them,

00:33:16you know, two inches to the, you know, to the driver's side

00:33:18just to, you know, to clear something

00:33:20or tilt them at seven and a half degrees

00:33:21to clear the hood or what have you.

00:33:23We get them all in there. Right.

00:33:25And then once we've figured out what what fits,

00:33:28then, you know, then we can say, OK,

00:33:30we're going to engineer the mounts and the platforms

00:33:32and the brackets that are going to hold those things in place.

00:33:35And that becomes a library of parts that are specific to that car.

00:33:38So your point about the differentiation.

00:33:41So the first SL we did, we scanned.

00:33:44Everything was great. Loved it.

00:33:45And then we did the second one and we started printing the parts.

00:33:48And we're like, these aren't fitting. What's going on?

00:33:51And go back.

00:33:51And it turns out the first car that we did had been hit at some point in time.

00:33:55Yeah, right. Right.

00:33:56And we were like 15 millimeters off, you know, and everything.

00:33:59And so there's some variation there, but usually it's from,

00:34:02you know, from platform to platform. Right.

00:34:04But also there was so many, especially older cars, especially,

00:34:06you know, post-World War II German cars.

00:34:09Like there's so many running changes that were made.

00:34:11Yeah. As they just got better engineers.

00:34:13But you're probably making running changes, too, right?

00:34:15With we are with motor, battery, BMS.

00:34:18Well, if you so I can I'll name a few cars like this last week I've been.

00:34:22So I get the lovely job of driving these cars for, you know, 500,000 miles,

00:34:26you know, before we set to not 500,000, but 500 or 1000.

00:34:30Before they get sent home to make sure they're perfect.

00:34:32So I've been running around in a sixty six Austin Healy

00:34:34and another one of our one of our Pagodas.

00:34:38And the drive train in the Pagoda and Austin Healy is exactly the same.

00:34:42Same motor, same battery pack, same control system,

00:34:46same same charger, same all of those things.

00:34:49But how we fit them and how we we locate all those those different components

00:34:53and the size of the battery boxes

00:34:55and the orientation of those battery boxes is unique per car. Right.

00:34:58So the beauty is we get repeatability from a standpoint of the of the componentry.

00:35:03And we know that the package works together

00:35:05because we've been spending years and years doing that.

00:35:08But when it goes specifically into a car, that's the challenge is

00:35:11how do we map that all of that stuff in there so that it all works right?

00:35:15And it's compatible, right?

00:35:16So, you know, we can get lined up for days about driveshafts

00:35:20and how they need to be aligned and how they need to be balanced

00:35:22and everything like that, because, well, other Healy 3000, it's a 3000.

00:35:27Big Healy, baby.

00:35:28There's a beautiful car. I've driven.

00:35:30Yeah. Now what?

00:35:32Now that's that's a powerful car.

00:35:34How much? Two hundred.

00:35:35What? You want to ask the question?

00:35:37How much? Lots.

00:35:38So, you know, we put it on the on the site.

00:35:42And we say, I think I'd say seventy five to one hundred and seventy five.

00:35:45And it's pretty. Plus the car.

00:35:47Yes. Plus the car.

00:35:48And they have to you don't you don't help source a car.

00:35:50We can. So our clients, I have a lot of clients that come from different.

00:35:54Some are people who have the car

00:35:56and they either have the car because it's important to them.

00:35:59So it was inherited or it was a, you know, passed away,

00:36:01you know, relative or something like that.

00:36:03Or it's a car that they've had forever that they love and cherish

00:36:07or it's part of their collection. Right.

00:36:09So we definitely have owners.

00:36:10But we also have people.

00:36:12This gets into like, why did I do my moment motors?

00:36:14Like, I think there's a moment when you become a car person, right?

00:36:18Like there's a moment when you see that car and you say, I will drive that someday.

00:36:22Like when you saw that Honda Odyssey and you were like,

00:36:26I mean, it doesn't actually that doesn't count as a car person.

00:36:29That's something else.

00:36:30That's a serious. I dare. I dare.

00:36:32You're nine thirty for sure. Right.

00:36:34And so you become a car person.

00:36:36Some people come to me and say, I've always wanted to drive this car,

00:36:40but I've never felt comfortable owning one as in its original form.

00:36:44I'm super excited to do that now.

00:36:46Can you help me find one? And we do that.

00:36:48Oh, so with the big Healy weak link, that transmission, it's miserable.

00:36:53And so what's the solution?

00:36:54You put a super five speed in.

00:36:56Now you have a Toyota, a Toyota part in your sixty six Healy.

00:37:00So like, well, if you can do that, why not just double the power?

00:37:04Yes, I love it. I totally agree with you.

00:37:06I mean, like what is the what?

00:37:07Like people get so bent out of shape about this.

00:37:10So we should we should talk about it.

00:37:12There's not enough to get bent out of shape about.

00:37:14The world's perfect, as we know.

00:37:15So you got to worry about like the car doesn't go vroom, vroom.

00:37:18Yeah. You know, I agree. It's a different thing.

00:37:20But like, man, I'm driving that Healy.

00:37:24It's the best it has ever been.

00:37:26Of course. Fantastic.

00:37:28Did you drive it with the four speed?

00:37:30Oh, yeah. Horrible. Miserable. Horrible.

00:37:32So you're actually it was a great example.

00:37:33So this guy fell in love with the shape because it's gorgeous. Right.

00:37:37And he got one fully restored. Beautiful.

00:37:39Everything down to like the braiding on the on the wiring harness.

00:37:43Everything. We open it up.

00:37:44It was like it rolled off the showroom floor in nineteen sixty six.

00:37:47Better than it rolled off the showroom floor.

00:37:49And he had to have it towed to us because it didn't run right.

00:37:52And why didn't it run?

00:37:54Well, because the poor guy let it sit for like three weeks. Right.

00:37:58And what happened?

00:37:59Well, there's like a pinhole in one of the and one of the carburetor floats.

00:38:03And so it filled it.

00:38:04And so then that car of the one of the two didn't didn't write it.

00:38:08It didn't work.

00:38:09And so then it didn't start.

00:38:11And then he couldn't.

00:38:11And then everything, you know, gummed up and he couldn't get it started.

00:38:14We finally get it over there and we get it started.

00:38:17And, you know, these guys who restored it, I'm sure they did a wonderful job.

00:38:21But, you know, they did things like, well, we're going to leave the generator

00:38:24in instead of converting it to an alternator. Right.

00:38:27And sure enough, so we get it standing.

00:38:29It was out in front of our in front of our shop.

00:38:32We've been we got it running because we want it.

00:38:34We always want to drive the car before we convert it

00:38:36because we want to understand what it feels like

00:38:38and capture the spirit of that car and really just know it.

00:38:41We got it running and driving like, OK, great.

00:38:43We had it parked in front and I'm sitting at my at my desk

00:38:46and I'm looking and I see this like wisps of something kind of going by the window.

00:38:51And I'm like, I looked out and I looked and there's smoke

00:38:54pouring out of the hood of this car.

00:38:57Oh, my God. I yell at the guys. I run out.

00:38:58We open it up that stupid generator.

00:39:01And there was a there was a short in it.

00:39:03And it started to literally melted all of this beautiful wiring harness

00:39:07with that braiding that caught on fire.

00:39:09So, Mark, the one time I drove a big Healy, the generator broke.

00:39:12That's what we in a traffic circle in Philadelphia.

00:39:15Yeah, I know.

00:39:16And so whoever's with you doesn't ever want to drive with you ever again.

00:39:19And we're literally like like like Friday night traffic.

00:39:22We're pushing a Healy onto the grass.

00:39:25And, you know, the people of Philly are so nice and understanding.

00:39:28And they're not screaming and flipping us off.

00:39:31The entire city. My wife is from Philly.

00:39:32So, yeah, mine, too.

00:39:35So I share your pain.

00:39:37But I mean, that is, you know, so you're like, what what are we doing exactly?

00:39:41Why is this so important to bring this back to original?

00:39:44It makes no sense.

00:39:45We've gone so much further than what that car had.

00:39:48Now, you could stop it, putting a generator, you know, an alternator in there

00:39:52and you could put you could maybe figure out, you know, puts a different,

00:39:55you know, super different carburetors in there.

00:39:58There's there's a few things you could do to kind of preserve it.

00:40:01But in the end, what's the point? Right.

00:40:03Like if we can pull that all out and and and give this owner,

00:40:07which he is not somebody who's going to twiddle the carburetor,

00:40:11he's not going to deal with that.

00:40:12He just wants to get in the car and drive. Right.

00:40:15And we give that back to him.

00:40:17And now it's I think about this a lot because people ask.

00:40:20They say, oh, I want to daily drive this.

00:40:21I'm like, well, sure, you can do it.

00:40:23We can absolutely do it.

00:40:24It's still a 66 Healy, right?

00:40:27So when I'm flying down the highway at 90 miles an hour,

00:40:30which it will do in a heartbeat, I am envisioning that, you know,

00:40:34the Lance like six foot steering column, the non collapsible drive shaft

00:40:39straight in my heart and the lap belt that I have, you know,

00:40:43it might be better to not have the lap belt on.

00:40:45So I get launched out of it. Right.

00:40:46That might be my better chance. That's right.

00:40:48So maybe you can do it. You can daily drive it.

00:40:52But what I think is more important is whenever you want to drive it,

00:40:56you get to do it.

00:40:58If you're sitting there, it's been three weeks and you're like,

00:41:00hey, you know, honey, let's take that.

00:41:02Let's take the Healy out to the to that restaurant and do that thing.

00:41:05You go down into the garage, start turn it on.

00:41:08And it just my dad always let's talk.

00:41:11Let's talk a little bit about the daily aspect of it.

00:41:13Sure. Like range, range.

00:41:17So I was getting close to 200 miles in that car range.

00:41:21And we can do we can do DC fast charging as well.

00:41:23So to give you the, you know,

00:41:24can do that extended as long as you want to extend it, basically.

00:41:28OK. 200 miles in an open top British roadster, by the way.

00:41:31That's a lot of miles before it cut me off.

00:41:35I was in my dad. Oh, my God.

00:41:37More of Johnny's stories. Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:39I'm on this podcast, by the way.

00:41:40Not the guests to corroborate with the guests is saying, yes,

00:41:43I think we got a thing going. Yeah, exactly. Take a break.

00:41:47His dream was a Triumph TR6 and he bought it.

00:41:50Oh, I love it. And it I think he drove it twice.

00:41:53And then it just sat rotting for a year and he couldn't get it going.

00:41:56You didn't have time, you know.

00:41:58And then he I remember he replaced it with a Datsun 280Z.

00:42:01And his big revelation was it starts, you know, like, wow,

00:42:04like a sports car that starts.

00:42:06So my daily is a 73 Alfa Romeo GTV.

00:42:09And we converted it. It's an early car.

00:42:11It's definitely a, you know, cobbler's children have no shoes situation

00:42:14where it's definitely like it's a lot of things could be fixed on it.

00:42:18But I drive it every day.

00:42:19But when I first bought that two days

00:42:22and then I was on the side of the road fixing the fuel pump. Right.

00:42:24Like and like even if you if you get the manual, the original manual

00:42:29of that car and the first six pages are devoted to like starting the car.

00:42:34It's like you might get to drive your Alfa today.

00:42:36Let's see. Right. Right.

00:42:38Do these 16 things and then cross your fingers and see if it starts. Right.

00:42:42So like, come on. Right. Like, how is that fun? How is that enjoyable?

00:42:46I'll tell you my 73 Alfa story.

00:42:47We're off the air because it's a really good one.

00:42:49But yes, I almost had one.

00:42:51So you we kind of glossed over the price, which, you know,

00:42:55so I mean, seventy five to one seventy five.

00:42:57I don't that in your defense, I don't think that sounds exceptionally high.

00:43:01So give me some context.

00:43:03I think the context is the car you're starting with. Right.

00:43:06So you talk about your, your, your, your 280Z, right.

00:43:09Or 240 or what do you do?

00:43:11You know, a good one is probably 40 grand, maybe, you know,

00:43:14or 280Z two plus two, like six grand. Yeah, exactly.

00:43:17Yeah. The challenge with that and people do this a lot.

00:43:20Like I get a lot of requests for like the one year only nine twelve from the

00:43:23from the body where they're like, oh, it's perfect because it's like, well, yeah.

00:43:27Except for nobody really cared about those cars. Right.

00:43:29And they don't put the money into them to restore them.

00:43:31Cost just as much to restore one of those as it does a 911.

00:43:34And normally people won't do that because the engine's not, you know,

00:43:37so finding a good example is probably your biggest challenge.

00:43:41But that I think is one of the things is how do you justify putting a hundred

00:43:45plus thousand dollars into, you know, into a twenty thousand dollar car?

00:43:48So I think what we end up doing a lot of if you come to the shop

00:43:52and you look at what's in there, it's a lot of very high end cars

00:43:55because the perception is, hey, this is already worth something.

00:43:59And we're going to put that in.

00:44:01Would I love to do these all day long? I would.

00:44:03And I don't know what the what the market for, you know, 100 plus Z's is.

00:44:07Right. It's very small. Yeah, it's small.

00:44:09It is. It's looking for the best off road trails on X off road has you covered

00:44:14with over seven hundred and fifty thousand miles of trails

00:44:17and comprehensive offline maps you can explore without worrying about cell

00:44:21service, easily find trails for four by fours, ATVs, dirt bikes and more.

00:44:26Our app provides detailed trail info, including difficulty ratings

00:44:30and open slash close dates on X off road also helps you navigate

00:44:34public and private land boundaries, ensuring you stay legal.

00:44:38Try on X off road free for seven days

00:44:41and discover why it's the go to app for off roaders.

00:44:44Download now. What other cars are you doing?

00:44:48We've mentioned the Porsches and I saw a lot of cool stuff on the website.

00:44:52Tell us what else you're doing.

00:44:53So we do. We're doing everything.

00:44:54So the European cars have been a little bit more the bread and butter.

00:44:57And honestly, I think the reason for that is because of the size.

00:45:01And when we started, what power plants were available to us were smaller.

00:45:05And so it's nice to kind of have a, you know, that thing.

00:45:08So we do a lot of Porsches.

00:45:10We do a lot of the we're doing three of those Healy's going.

00:45:14Yeah. Yeah. It's strange.

00:45:15But like, you know, once people realize you can do it and they go, man,

00:45:19they just don't run. Right. Exactly.

00:45:23We're doing other Mercedes of that same generation.

00:45:26We've got just a variety of alphas and things like that.

00:45:30So a lot of stuff on the European side.

00:45:31But then kind of on the other side of the garage,

00:45:33we've got a lot of American muscle cars, right?

00:45:35I mean, we're doing a fifty nine Impala.

00:45:37We're doing three Mustangs.

00:45:39We're doing three. Sixty three Corvettes.

00:45:44No. Really? Yeah.

00:45:46Now they're restomods.

00:45:47They've got full armors and chassis wheels.

00:45:51Probably. No comment.

00:45:53My clients get to choose. Right.

00:45:55And this is probably where you're getting all the hate. Right.

00:45:58Yeah. But like I this is funny.

00:46:00I thought about it's all about perspective. Right.

00:46:02Like to first off, I'm not converting every 63 Corvette.

00:46:09Right. It's definitely a small number of people who choose to do this. Right.

00:46:13And I I just I feel like I think people attach a certain

00:46:18aura and value to these cars that is maybe it depends on your perspective.

00:46:23Right. So we had somebody bring in one of the early one ninety SLS. Right.

00:46:27Those the Pontin era of those.

00:46:29And I remember looking at it and I was like, well, is the one ninety. Right.

00:46:33Yeah. And so I'm like, this is a beautiful car.

00:46:35Right. It's probably two hundred thousand dollar car.

00:46:37And I thought, man, I feel, you know, a little bit bad about this.

00:46:40And the you know, the owner's like they're just parts cars for the three hundred.

00:46:43Right. Like exactly.

00:46:45And so it all just depends on how you look at it. Right.

00:46:47Like I don't you know, and I know in my heart

00:46:51that the result will be better, 100 percent better.

00:46:55Like the joy of driving that car will be improved dramatically.

00:46:59I saw you had some Chevy C10s.

00:47:01Yes, we do. That's what we do.

00:47:03We don't see it. We do see tens.

00:47:06Actually, the thing I really like is we did a couple.

00:47:09We're actually doing our second blazer. Oh, cool.

00:47:12And full time all wheel drive and, you know, big battery pack. Right.

00:47:18One hundred and five kilowatt hour battery pack.

00:47:20Full time, all wheel drive that drive.

00:47:22So I daily drove a seventy two for three years plus.

00:47:27And it's that's a chore, right?

00:47:28Like this is a I mean, a total pussycat.

00:47:31It's so easy to drive.

00:47:33Was that two? No, we did that center drive unit and full time

00:47:38through the through the to the straight axles.

00:47:41That I think is the challenge, right?

00:47:43When you want to do a motor again, back to my comment about drive unit in a car.

00:47:47That's a those are four wheel drive cars from the 60s and 70s.

00:47:50They've got straight axles. Right.

00:47:52Can you can you do it with two cars?

00:47:53Yeah. With a whole new, you know, whole new chassis, you can do that.

00:47:56But, you know, it's not necessary.

00:47:59You have a motor hooked up to the transfer case.

00:48:01No transfer case. No, it's in the middle.

00:48:03And it's driving both of them at the same time.

00:48:05So full full time all over.

00:48:07I want to jump back to just the all the hot rod

00:48:10you're doing, because I think it's important at this moment

00:48:13to do the hard pivot and say, talk about how you get into this.

00:48:16Yeah. Right. Because you are not you're not an automotive executive.

00:48:21You're not like there's a couple of guys.

00:48:22There's a guy there's an ex-Nissan guy who's doing like these Mustang restomods.

00:48:25Yeah. You don't come from the automotive industry.

00:48:27In fact, you were executive recruiter, ran your own company. Yeah.

00:48:31Is it fair to say it was a midlife crisis?

00:48:33No, but you actually you were you you're a legit hot rodder.

00:48:37You had a 32 Ford. Oh, wow. Yeah.

00:48:40And you did all that. And that was your deep exploration.

00:48:42Yeah. It's tell us.

00:48:43I mean, the story is, you know, from birth car, you could talk to my mom.

00:48:47First word was car.

00:48:48You know, I would stand in front of the Hot Wheels at the toy store,

00:48:50like shaking because I couldn't believe, you know, I couldn't bring them all home.

00:48:54Right. Like, you know, barely could see over the you know, the the over the the door.

00:48:59And I could recognize every car on the road by the grill, all that kind of stuff.

00:49:03Right. So just hopeless. Right.

00:49:05I actually didn't have a car or dad or mom. Right.

00:49:08Like they weren't into cars.

00:49:09And so I didn't get to really tap into that.

00:49:12We had, you know, kind of a humble beginnings, if you will.

00:49:16So I wasn't able to kind of get into the car hobby until I was,

00:49:20you know, graduated and made some money.

00:49:21But when I went to college, I went I went to engineering school.

00:49:25And it's funny, if you think about back then

00:49:2952. And so back then, you know, 30 plus years ago,

00:49:34if you went down the mechanical engineering path

00:49:37and you wanted to work in the automotive industry,

00:49:39your options were to basically go work at an OEM.

00:49:41Like you'd go work with thousands of people in some building

00:49:45and you'd work on some minuscule part of the car.

00:49:47You're the door handle. Yeah, exactly.

00:49:49And I just it never it never was compelling.

00:49:51And at the time, the 90s, how I met, you know, Elliot.

00:49:55It's my brother. Yeah.

00:49:56I went into the the software industry because at that time,

00:49:59software is kind of eating the world with a mechanical engineering degree.

00:50:01No, I went I got your science degree, but it was an engineering degree.

00:50:04So I got some of the the the the background.

00:50:07But interestingly enough, at that time,

00:50:10literally the first day I went to school, I met Jeff Reinach,

00:50:14who's our chief mechanical engineer.

00:50:16And he is somebody that I've been a lifelong friend with.

00:50:19And he went down the mechanical engineering path.

00:50:21And I kind of roped him back into this later in life.

00:50:25But anyway, you know, so went down this path, did software

00:50:28and did what everybody does, which is you go make money

00:50:31at the thing that you that you're good at.

00:50:33And then you spend it and do your free time on the thing that you love. Right.

00:50:37And so I was doing that for many years, building cars and hot rods.

00:50:41I had a it was technically it was it was a 30 Model A.

00:50:44But and I had, you know, I had a 1960 Cadillac Coupe de Ville.

00:50:48I had a 72 Corvette.

00:50:50I had a bunch of cars, 66 C10, lots of those.

00:50:53And it was I was in the hot rod scene in Austin and did that as my

00:50:57as my enjoyment. Right.

00:50:59And then, yeah, it was a midlife crisis.

00:51:01I eventually got into the recruiting business and and just found it

00:51:04to be a little soul sucking and decided it was time to, you know, to reboot

00:51:09and do something that I could be passionate about.

00:51:11But when what was the moment for you?

00:51:16What was the moment for you where you're like

00:51:19the 30s grade, the C10?

00:51:21Like, well, I got to put I got to start putting some motors in here.

00:51:24I think that's a good that's a good question.

00:51:28I think the story actually somebody, a good friend.

00:51:32And her name is Terry Taylor.

00:51:34She she worked with us as well for quite a while.

00:51:37She actually we were having a conversation dropping off our kids.

00:51:40And she said something to the effect of like, I'd love to drive an old,

00:51:43you know, a Cobra with an electric motor in it.

00:51:46And I was like, no, that doesn't sound like a good idea.

00:51:49And then I thought, actually, maybe. Right.

00:51:51And so it's she's actually the owner of the of the Z.

00:51:55And so she was one of the first people to do it.

00:51:57She's an ex

00:52:00Nissan product designer.

00:52:02And she was really interested in doing that.

00:52:05And so so I kind of went off and did the first car we did was a 68 Porsche.

00:52:10And I did it

00:52:12with another mutual friend, Charles Thornburg.

00:52:15And we did that car and we basically

00:52:19proved the idea with it.

00:52:22And like in your garage, like a hobby.

00:52:23Yeah. Like this is a true garage startup.

00:52:25Like literally, I did it as investigative to see if this was possible.

00:52:29I was actually sharing with the guys the early pictures.

00:52:32I mean, I was not the best fabricator in the world, that's for sure.

00:52:35But we got proof of concept together.

00:52:37And I was able to, you know, take it around and take people for a ride

00:52:40and get get an idea of whether or not this was something

00:52:44that people were interested in.

00:52:45Famously, I mean, the first Tesla was a, you know, they're

00:52:48trying to do a Porsche turbo, make it electric.

00:52:49Yeah. And that was, I mean, that's Everhart and the other guy.

00:52:52There's it's a well-worn path, I think.

00:52:55And it worked well because it was it really proved it to all of us.

00:52:59And I'll be honest, when we started, I didn't know.

00:53:02Right. I didn't know what the result was going to be.

00:53:04And I was hopeful, but I was also a little worried that we were going to,

00:53:07you know, we're going to destroy this car. Right.

00:53:09And and literally once we had it on the road,

00:53:13you know, and the owner and I went out and drove it,

00:53:15we just kind of looked at each other and said, this is this is something. Right.

00:53:18And so that was kind of where we, you know, I came up with the idea.

00:53:23Pulled in, Jeff, I pulled in

00:53:26good friends in the hot rod industry, not industry, but in the hobby

00:53:30in Austin, if you will.

00:53:31Those are my first, you know, fabricators and and and, you know,

00:53:35people who help build the initial cars.

00:53:37And that's kind of where the Genesis, you know, kind of came.

00:53:40How long after that first project did this?

00:53:43Did you realize this could be a business?

00:53:45Well, I kind of I didn't you know, you don't know if it's going to be business,

00:53:47but I knew it was something I was going to I was going to do that instant.

00:53:50We drove it like I said, I got we got to try.

00:53:52This is something that we got to do here.

00:53:53And, you know, back then, I mean, it's funny back then.

00:53:57It's like eight years ago.

00:53:58But back then it was it was questionable. Right.

00:54:02You never weren't really sure.

00:54:03And so when we started, I was really in the position of taking on

00:54:08whatever anybody would bring to us. Right.

00:54:10So the approach that we took was, hey, let's make this stuff

00:54:13as modular as possible so we can do whatever anybody wanted to bring to us.

00:54:17Right. Like my brother's highlights. Exactly.

00:54:19Like a highlight. Right.

00:54:20And so you kind of just say, OK, you're willing to do it.

00:54:23You're crazy enough to do this.

00:54:24We're in car number two or three.

00:54:26It was like four, like a four or five.

00:54:29But so the crazy story about that car.

00:54:31So my brother bought the work truck

00:54:35from the original owner of bring a trailer.

00:54:38Yeah. In San Francisco. It is a work truck.

00:54:40Yeah, it's really rough.

00:54:42It is a green South American Hilux.

00:54:46It's like a eighty three or eighty two or something that

00:54:50a four door short bed.

00:54:54And I remember him.

00:54:55I remember seeing it because it was up in the Bay Area.

00:54:57And we're like, that thing's dope.

00:54:58So I'm a I'm a Toyota Land Cruiser nerd. I'm a Hilux nerd.

00:55:01I drove a Hilux in school.

00:55:02And I remember saying, I'm going to buy it.

00:55:03You know, he bought it and then he proceeded to I don't know if he did it

00:55:08or the BAT guys did it, but they overfilled the engine.

00:55:11Yeah. And he blew up, blew it up on the freeway.

00:55:14And then he's like, yeah, that's that's a blow up a Hilux motors.

00:55:18Impressive. Yeah, I know.

00:55:19Especially when they shipped it to you.

00:55:21And then he's like, what do you think?

00:55:22And I like you like, OK, yeah, I'm like, ready to go.

00:55:25And so that's I mean, sure, we did it right.

00:55:27And so that that is how we started. Right.

00:55:30And then we then now it's obviously has evolved.

00:55:33And the value of an eighty two Hilux is in the hundreds or thousands of dollars.

00:55:37Yes, it's a one of one.

00:55:40For sure. I really want.

00:55:41So, you know, out here on, you know, on this, maybe we'll send it out to Elliot.

00:55:45You know, but the idea is I the the truck deserves more. Right.

00:55:49So we need to restore it. It needs to get the stripes.

00:55:53It needs to look like it should.

00:55:55And I agree. And then if we do that and then what I really want to do

00:55:58is I want to put the same kind of drivetrain that we're putting in.

00:56:01We're doing a scout and we're doing that blazer and we're going to

00:56:04and we're doing, you know, like I said, the center center

00:56:07mounted drive unit with the full time all wheel drive.

00:56:09And we can I think in that truck we can get 80 kilowatt hours in it,

00:56:12which would give them probably about one hundred and fifty hundred

00:56:15and seventy five miles range. And I think it'd be perfect.

00:56:18And then we can put a 50 cal in the back and invade Canada.

00:56:21It'll be perfect. Talk to me about the scout.

00:56:23Yeah, that's very interesting.

00:56:24That's got has been a long project.

00:56:27So one of the one of the challenges with that scout, it's an 80, right?

00:56:30So it's a. Oh, it's got to really. Yeah.

00:56:32No, it's in the sky. It's the early one.

00:56:33So he's got 80. So he's got 80.

00:56:34The one that's in the 1980s. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

00:56:37It went through seventy nine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

00:56:39So it's it is a it's an early scout.

00:56:41So it was a four cylinder. Yeah.

00:56:42Well, no, that's a good question.

00:56:44He that the earlier year, it's a 60.

00:56:48Oh, man. Why do I not know this?

00:56:50Sixty five, I think. Yeah, no, not that early. Yeah.

00:56:53So but those vehicles are tractors, right?

00:56:57Like and they don't they're not because they have such a small power plant.

00:57:03The diffs are kind of made of glass, right?

00:57:06They're not really they're not built to handle all of the power

00:57:09that we could put in it.

00:57:10And so the challenge with that vehicle is that every bit of the suspension,

00:57:14every bit of the driveline needed to be dramatically upgraded

00:57:17in order to handle everything.

00:57:18So it became a big project because of all that.

00:57:21Right. Like because I used to work on those like

00:57:24you could put in, I don't know, 200 kilowatt hour battery pack

00:57:27and you'd still be lighter than it was when it left the factory.

00:57:30Yeah, sort of.

00:57:31The bellhousing on a scout is monster.

00:57:34Yeah. Those those vehicles.

00:57:35I think we get that question all the time.

00:57:37So this is something I get calls all the time that are like, hey,

00:57:40I want to convert my, you know, Lincoln Continental,

00:57:43my 60s Lincoln Continental.

00:57:45Everybody loves to bring enormous cars.

00:57:48And I have to explain to them like big cars require big motors and big bags.

00:57:54And they'll say, oh, it's got lots of room for batteries.

00:57:56I'm like, yes.

00:57:57It's also bales of cash that you're going to have to put into the car.

00:58:00So the challenge is, as you get a bigger vehicle,

00:58:03the price point just is is really you haven't started.

00:58:07So you're not seeing we keep hearing from the on the OEM side

00:58:10that battery costs are coming, coming way down.

00:58:13Not not in the supply chain, right?

00:58:16Like we're still at the buying one.

00:58:18I can buy I can let me I'd have to do my calculations to see per kilowatt hour.

00:58:23I am able to get battery modules

00:58:27for a hundred to one hundred and fifty kilowatt hour.

00:58:31That's not too often.

00:58:32I'm sorry. One hundred and fifty dollars per kilowatt hour.

00:58:35But then I have got to mark it up and everything like that.

00:58:37In the end, you know, the client's probably paying, you know, two hundred

00:58:40fifty to, you know, to to three hundred dollars.

00:58:43So it's very expensive. It is expensive. Right.

00:58:45And so and then when you're going to put a hundred kilowatt hour

00:58:48like the blazer we're talking about, we're putting one hundred

00:58:50and five kilowatt hour in there.

00:58:52And, you know, at that price point, like that's a lot. Right.

00:58:56It's a big chunk of this. Right.

00:58:57And then those motors that we talk about are a lot.

00:59:00You know, if I was buying a thousand of them, it'd be a little bit less for sure.

00:59:03But I'm not you know, I'm not able to do that.

00:59:05But a Suzuki Samurai.

00:59:07Now, that would be fun.

00:59:08I wouldn't. You know, I saw one the other day and I was like, oh,

00:59:11and that would solve the rollover problem.

00:59:13I put it all the way in the bottom.

00:59:14So now you're talking.

00:59:17How many people you got working for you?

00:59:19So we have eight guys, technicians.

00:59:22I've got a kind of project manager, you know, over over them.

00:59:26I've got Jeff on mechanical engineering.

00:59:29I've got an electrical engineer.

00:59:31I've got myself and I've got a parts manager operations guy.

00:59:36Yeah. So I can was at 12 right now.

00:59:38Yeah. We're about time. Daily hustle.

00:59:40Oh, yeah. Still love more than daily.

00:59:42Like every yes, daily, as in like every day.

00:59:44So it's we got six thousand square feet down in Austin.

00:59:48We're able to do about eight to ten cars at the same time.

00:59:51You know, we get done with the car and usually it moves into kind of test

00:59:54and tune mode and then we're driving them around.

00:59:56But yeah, you got a waiting list. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:59:59It's about about six to nine months right now.

01:00:02How many cars a year can you put out?

01:00:03That's a tricky question, because on average, yeah, on average,

01:00:07we'd say probably somewhere between 10 and 15. Right.

01:00:09That's the that's the idea. Yeah. OK.

01:00:10So. So, OK. Yeah. OK.

01:00:12So it takes a while to do it. It does. Yes.

01:00:14And I think that's the thing.

01:00:15Like if anything, I can try to convey to everybody like

01:00:19there is this perception that this is like dropping in a crate motor. Right.

01:00:23Yeah, exactly.

01:00:24And even if you talk to people who put LS motors and, you know,

01:00:28they'll gloss over it, but to do it right next time. Right.

01:00:32And to do this right takes a lot of time.

01:00:34So not only, you know, I think when you're doing when you're doing a one off,

01:00:39we end up taking probably it can be six to nine to even 12 months

01:00:44or sometimes more. You're not working on it constantly.

01:00:47There's a lot of engineering up front.

01:00:49So you're getting parts made and you're testing and you're making sure

01:00:51everything's there. If it's a car we've done before.

01:00:53So like those little speedsters, we can do those in two months.

01:00:55It's fast. Right.

01:00:56If we get a Pagoda, we can do those in about four months. Right.

01:00:59That those kinds of things are, are, are, are, you know,

01:01:03quicker because we've done the engineering work and we get the parts and we just,

01:01:07and we, you know, translate and we go from there.

01:01:10So which one is you've done the most 9-11s or the most Pagodas?

01:01:14I'd say probably one or the other. Right. Like I can't, yeah,

01:01:17probably the 9-11s, but we do different things to the 9-11. So, I mean,

01:01:21the most consistent one has been the Pagodas and we're applying that same

01:01:25drive train. We've got a 280 SE now in the car, in the,

01:01:28in the shop that's getting basically the same drive train.

01:01:30And what about like R107s? Anyone have any?

01:01:32So that's a, that's a successor to the Pagoda, which is even slower.

01:01:38So that's a great,

01:01:39that's one of those ones where you start crossing the line where they're not

01:01:43worth all that much. Right. And they, and so a couple of things because of that,

01:01:49they might be right.

01:01:50And so I think that people struggle a little bit with putting the money into an

01:01:54R107. Not many people,

01:01:56there's plenty of people who exclusively restore Pagodas to brand new,

01:02:00you know, condition. R107 is a Mercedes. It's a, it's a roadster that, that,

01:02:04from that, that, that's hard to describe. It's kind of bulbous looking.

01:02:09It had. The Pagoda? No, the R107. It's the,

01:02:13it's the successor to the Pagoda. It's the one that us Gen Xers remember.

01:02:17Right. It was the Beverly Hills car. Exactly. Yeah.

01:02:21And I love them. Bruna Sokka. Perfect. I mean, it's the greatest designer.

01:02:24I really love them, but they're one of those ones that are on the edge.

01:02:27I've had a few people bring them to me and I'm like, well, like fundamentally,

01:02:30the technology we've got to put in it is the same.

01:02:32We've got to put in any of these cars. And so the price point is, you know,

01:02:35where the price point is and they go, not really sure.

01:02:39But again, it's another awful, and these, there's no manual.

01:02:42These are the four speed slow shifting automatic with lazy,

01:02:46even the five sixties, a lazy engine. Yeah. Oh,

01:02:49I have no doubt that the result would be spectacular. Right.

01:02:52Like I think it would be the best R107 on the road and people would love them.

01:02:56And there's been people who've done them. I just don't know that the, you know,

01:02:59we, we really have to react to what our clients are interested in. And you know,

01:03:03at this point, the demand's not there for it. And so who is your,

01:03:07who is your client? Well, I kind of touched on some of this before we,

01:03:11we definitely have like the collector and the people who want to do this,

01:03:14who are super car guys and have, you know and car women who have lots of cars and

01:03:19they just want to do this, you know, and they collect them. I just,

01:03:23we just have a guy who signed up. He's got,

01:03:26he just bought a 77 Lotus Esprit that we're going to do. Right. And that's,

01:03:31yeah. Series one Esprit. I'd love that because it's, it's a,

01:03:35first mid engine. No, we've done mid engines before, but this'll,

01:03:39this'll be an interesting one. Cause it uses this crazy transaxle. Anyway,

01:03:43that's a long story. But anyway,

01:03:45so that's the guy who's owned tons of different cars and he's like, yeah,

01:03:49let's do this. And he, you know, he grabs a car and sends it to us.

01:03:53And a Lotus that starts every day. That's gotta be really exciting.

01:03:56This car is going to be, I think you should just do British cars.

01:03:58It sounds like it might be our niche for sure.

01:04:02But then we do have the people who, so there's those people.

01:04:06We do have the people who are like the inheritors, right. Who get something,

01:04:10you know, I've done a lot of cars where it was their father's car. We just,

01:04:13we're doing, you got to see this. Oh my God. It's so beautiful. It's an 87,

01:04:18you know, G body Porsche. That is beautiful. No whale tail. It's nice.

01:04:23It is. And it was the woman's father's car. It's special color to her.

01:04:28She remembers going out and driving when he passed away. She gets the car.

01:04:31It was up in New Jersey and it goes through the hurricane and gets flooded.

01:04:36And so she calls me and she's like, I want to convert this,

01:04:40but I don't know what to do.

01:04:42And so that's a situation where we don't do that restoration.

01:04:44So we send them to a restoration partner and she works with them,

01:04:48gets it all exactly how she wants it. And then it comes to us for the,

01:04:51for the conversion. But that car is gorgeous.

01:04:54It is now perfectly pristinely restored the interior.

01:04:58She did this gorgeous, beautiful leather.

01:05:00You stick your head in and it smells like a boot store in there.

01:05:02It's unbelievable. And so I'm super excited to do that car for her, right?

01:05:06Like that, that's what this is about.

01:05:07It's about these people who love these cars. So we have those people, right?

01:05:12And then we definitely have people who are like, you know,

01:05:14very excited about the idea. And like I said, who don't own the car,

01:05:19but have always wanted the car.

01:05:20I have a guy in Atlanta who said I've never been into classic cars.

01:05:25And it wasn't, I feel like this is the Pagoda podcast, but like, he's like,

01:05:28he was like,

01:05:29I was sitting there in Atlanta and I saw this car go by and I said, what,

01:05:32what the hell is that? And he was just, it spoke to him. It was his moment.

01:05:37He happened to have it later on in life, but it happened. Right.

01:05:40And then he figured out he could get electric and he called me and he's like,

01:05:42let's do this. Right. So that happens to, um, Audrey Hepburn. Yeah.

01:05:48Like I always joke about it. Like you, like you want to put on that scarf and

01:05:52I don't care what you are. That's what you want.

01:05:55When, when you started, how many other companies were doing something like this?

01:05:59So when we started, you know, you mentioned, uh, ED West and Michael, right.

01:06:03So, uh, uh, I have a funny story about Michael. Uh, he's a,

01:06:08he's a, he's a friend. But when we started, I ordered the, the kit, uh,

01:06:13and I bought parts from him to do the Porsche and we did the Porsche.

01:06:16And that's when I was like, I'm going to do this.

01:06:19We're going to start a company. I was worried. Right. I was like,

01:06:21I'm going to be competing with EV West. Right.

01:06:24So I sent him this email that was like, Hey,

01:06:28I just want you to know this. And I'm like,

01:06:30I'm happy to cut you in on the price of the components, whatever like this,

01:06:34nothing. And then like a couple of weeks later, like just check it in on this.

01:06:40Nothing. And I was like, Oh man, he hates me.

01:06:43So for the first two years of like doing this,

01:06:46I was like living in fear of his wrath. And then like out of the blue,

01:06:51I get a random email from him mistaken. Cause he had like, like replied to

01:06:56something. And I was like, and he was like, Hey Mark,

01:06:59I wanted to check in with you. And I was like, did you like,

01:07:02did you get that email? And I said, he's like, no, he goes that,

01:07:05we had this real problem with our email server.

01:07:06And there's a whole time we started, I was like thinking that he hated me.

01:07:10And he was like, no, he's like, Oh, you're doing great work. That's awesome.

01:07:14So anyway, that, you know,

01:07:15that world existed and hardly anybody else.

01:07:19And rising tide, right? Yeah. We started similar times,

01:07:23maybe a little bit after there's a guy, you know,

01:07:28electric classic cars in the UK, Richard called Maggie.

01:07:31He's the show a great guy. And he, we, we've kind of had parallel lives.

01:07:36We've done a few you know, phone calls where we, you know,

01:07:40connect on, on how similar things are. Right. So they, you know,

01:07:45kind of rose at about the same time. Now there's, there are others.

01:07:49There's a lot other of others.

01:07:51There's also a lot of people trying to attack this market with a lot of

01:07:55different solutions. And I just, I don't know that the,

01:07:59that the, you know, I don't know who is going to, you know,

01:08:04to, to win out in this, right.

01:08:05And there's people trying to make components and plug and play and people trying

01:08:09to make platforms and people trying to do hero cars that, you know, that,

01:08:13that are sorry, not, you know, more product cars, right.

01:08:15That they deliver the full package and everything's done.

01:08:17There's a lot of different approaches to this.

01:08:18And so we'll see where it all evolves.

01:08:20When did you connect with Jonathan? By the way, you're being very modest,

01:08:24because when we talked to Jonathan, he spoke very highly of you.

01:08:28So Jonathan has been a friend for a while. It was kind of funny. So he,

01:08:33he's on top of things, right.

01:08:35He's constantly searching out other companies doing different

01:08:39innovative things. And he found us, let me think.

01:08:43It would have been 2018.

01:08:46We just moved into our new shop and he had seen what we were doing.

01:08:50And he actually sent a buddy of his who was down in Austin. He's like,

01:08:53go check these guys out. Suss them out.

01:08:56So he came down and toured the shop and he mentioned that he knew Jonathan.

01:09:00And I was like, Oh, cool. He's like, well, he's coming down for, you know,

01:09:02for Thanksgiving, bring him by the shop. And I was like, okay, sure.

01:09:08And so it came by him and Jamie and their sons. And it was great.

01:09:11We got to meet him then. And we just, we kind of connected then.

01:09:14And we're really, you know, I don't know. There's a lot of, you know,

01:09:172018, probably.

01:09:20So this is, this is after, this is currently still on TLC.

01:09:25He had started Icon. He had been doing the high-end rest of mods,

01:09:30but he had yet to do Derelict.

01:09:33He did a Derelict DVD. It was probably like 2018.

01:09:36Yeah. And I think he was also,

01:09:39I think the reason that he found us was he was dabbling in the, you know.

01:09:42Look, I met Jonathan in 2008, something like that.

01:09:45And I remember getting the first time I toured the shop, he was like,

01:09:47one day everything will be electric.

01:09:49Like, he's just like, it's better. And that was,

01:09:51this is before the Tesla Roadster. And I was like, what's he talking about?

01:09:56He's a forward thinking guy. And anyway, we became friends,

01:09:59kept in touch for a long time. So, I mean,

01:10:03we've just been connected on a lot of things. And I really feel like, you know,

01:10:07it's, it is fascinating to see how his business works.

01:10:13Sharif, his COO is also a friend of mine.

01:10:17And I'm really impressed by what they've done there. It's a, it's a, it's a really,

01:10:22it's a really well-run shop. They do an excellent product. It's incredible.

01:10:26I mean, their FJ is phenomenal.

01:10:28It's hard to explain to people how good that thing is, but like, man, that's good.

01:10:32When you see those cars and you go in there and I, you know,

01:10:35I don't want to talk out of turn, but you know,

01:10:38he'll tell the story about how, when it first came out, you know,

01:10:41and I don't know, it was like, they were selling for a hundred and,

01:10:44180, 180. And the press just beat the hell out of him.

01:10:48Like, what are you doing? You're ridiculous. This da, da, da, da.

01:10:51Now I like stop in when I'm in town and I'll check it out.

01:10:55And like, there's a Bronco there. And, and Sharif would be like,

01:10:59check this out. Look at the interior. He's like, this interior is $90,000.

01:11:04Like just the interior of a Bronco.

01:11:06But what people don't get is like, what he does, like,

01:11:09I always tell the story cause I, you know, when I first drove it, it was a 180.

01:11:12And he says, well, why is this old Toyota 180? And he just, he goes, well,

01:11:16you know,

01:11:17we spent a lot of time thinking about the latches to release the windshield.

01:11:20And we decided that the 1905 Sub-Zero refrigerator had the coolest latches.

01:11:24So that's what we use. And I was like, Oh man, he's thinking so far ahead,

01:11:29so far beyond what I'm capable of.

01:11:31I mean, the product is just flawless. It really is.

01:11:36They've relentlessly, you know,

01:11:38gone through their suppliers and all of the, everything is just,

01:11:41and won't cut a corner. Just won't do it. It's phenomenal.

01:11:44Just like the next question I'm going to ask you similarly,

01:11:46we connected a couple years ago when GM was doing their crate motor.

01:11:52Oh yes.

01:11:53How did, what's the postscript on that? Did you ever, did you ever work with that?

01:11:58It's funny. I listened to your one with, is it McCann,

01:12:01the hot rod editor in chief?

01:12:07Yeah, I was at that SEMA and actually I was at that SEMA cause I subbed in for

01:12:11Jonathan on a, on a panel. And so we did a, we did a, a good,

01:12:15you know, panel discussion about it. I was thrilled with the idea.

01:12:19And you introduced me to Russ and we had that conversation and you know,

01:12:23he was kind of like, we're taking names. We're going to, you know,

01:12:25we're going to have a whole thing. And then strangely,

01:12:27didn't hear much after that. And so, but like,

01:12:30it was eyeopening to see it. Right.

01:12:32And I think that this is kind of the crux of what we do and how it gets done

01:12:38and how it's different from what a modern EV is. Right.

01:12:41And you think about,

01:12:42we were talking about this with drive units and where they fit and whether or

01:12:46not they're the right thing. But like, imagine this, like,

01:12:50I think Russ explained,

01:12:51it's like the only reason that GM can sell crate engines is because they have a

01:12:56Corvette and they have a Camaro and they have a source of those engines.

01:13:01They're not creating new product for GM to do just to sell. Right.

01:13:05And so when you turn to the EV side of things,

01:13:08if they're going to sell something to builders or what have you,

01:13:11it's got to come off the line. Right. It has to come off the line. There's no,

01:13:15they're not going to create something. Right.

01:13:16And when you're pulling something off the line,

01:13:18the way you do a modern EV is you put a drive unit in the rear or in the front

01:13:22or both, depending on your, you know, depending on your architecture.

01:13:25And you put a, and you put a skateboard, you know,

01:13:27battery platform in the middle, you know, loosely,

01:13:29it doesn't have to be an actual skateboard, but that kind of approach. Right.

01:13:32And that just is not compatible with a classic car. Right.

01:13:35And so especially GM's battery solution, which is a tank at the time.

01:13:40But I think that the Ultium solution is actually very modular. Right.

01:13:44And so if they would feel confident that builders could use it and they could

01:13:48sell the modules, there would be a lot of flexibility with that.

01:13:51Like GM is the master of, of, you know, these,

01:13:54the modular approach to everything. And we, you know, back in the day,

01:13:57we used to criticize it as rebadging and stuff like that, but ultimately,

01:14:00you know, they've now got probably the most number of EVs on the market.

01:14:03I mean, you look at the Blazer EV, right. It can be front, rear or all wheel drive.

01:14:07It's fantastic. It's like, that's wild. Yeah.

01:14:09And then certainly there were software glitches and stuff like that,

01:14:11but they'll get there and it'll be, it'll be great.

01:14:14But like that crate motor and you saw it in project X, right.

01:14:18It had to be reconfigured. It was, you know, turned to the side,

01:14:21it had to be re-geared. It was, it was a hard thing to do.

01:14:23It was a Lear motor drive unit. And in the end, and this is interesting,

01:14:29the, the space constraints were the issue, right? So you have that motor,

01:14:34it had to sit in the, you know, in the,

01:14:36in the engine bay and it took up all of this valuable space, right? So we,

01:14:40we put our motors in the transmission tunnel to keep,

01:14:44to preserve the room that we need in the engine bay for the battery boxes,

01:14:47because when you're doing a car like that,

01:14:50that was set up from suspension and everything to have all the weight where the

01:14:54engine was, you can't just put a, you know, the drive unit might weigh 200,

01:14:58no, 150 pounds. Right. And then you can't put all the batteries in the back.

01:15:02That's not how it works. You're going to have the range was like 50,

01:15:0450 on the car. Exactly. So, but you know, we can, we,

01:15:07if we're able to get the right packaging,

01:15:10put that into the trans tunnel and leave all that room in the engine bay for two

01:15:14thirds of the battery pack.

01:15:15And then one third goes in the trunk and the balance is perfectly,

01:15:17everything's great and it works.

01:15:19But GM doesn't have that ability to make that right. Like they, they, they like,

01:15:24well, if you can use the Lyric or you can use the Strat then.

01:15:27So I don't think it'll like people asked if it's going to be, you know,

01:15:30create motors from, you know, EV crate motors from the, from the OEMs.

01:15:34And it's not,

01:15:35Have you looked at though, like what Lucid's up to specifically,

01:15:38because they have those miniature motors that are so power dense. I would,

01:15:43I mean, these are the things, right? Like when you think about who is innovating

01:15:47in this world, right? Like these are the companies that are doing it.

01:15:50And their batteries are super modular. Sure. The most modular. Yeah.

01:15:53Bring it. I'd love it. Right. I would absolutely love it.

01:15:56But I don't think that that's going to be possible.

01:15:58I think at some point in time,

01:15:59people are going to wreck enough Lucid's that you might see it there,

01:16:02but honestly the technology gets so dense, right? Like it's that,

01:16:06that's hard to re-engineer, right? Like that, right?

01:16:09Like it's fine to pull a battery out and say, does it have voltage?

01:16:12Can I get cell taps on it to monitor it and make sure it's safe?

01:16:15Can I cool it? Can I do it? Okay, great. I can put it in my, in my car,

01:16:18but like to take a motor and an inverter and figure out how it works and spoof

01:16:23it and make it work again, that's hard. Right.

01:16:25And so I remember at that same SEMA Ford was out there talking about their

01:16:30illuminator, right? They put this, this motor out and I just looked at it.

01:16:34I'm like, it's useless. It's just a motor. It's a hunk of metal.

01:16:38They didn't, they were not selling the inverter.

01:16:39They were not selling any of the code that was going to do it.

01:16:41And quite honestly, it felt this disingenuous, right?

01:16:45Like cause there's nobody could do anything with that. Right.

01:16:48And both of those projects have, have basically gone nowhere.

01:16:51Yeah. They've gone. Right. I think there was definitely a, you know,

01:16:53let's see if there's an appetite out there and if there's an appetite, we'll,

01:16:56you know, we'll pursue it and fast. And they did a little test balloon.

01:16:59So to summarize,

01:17:00I think what you're saying is Ed needs to send me to Austin to drive all this

01:17:04stuff. Do it. I'd love to have you. I really would.

01:17:06I think you'd have a blast after I go.

01:17:10I think the shop is fun to do it. And we, and if we time it right,

01:17:13we usually have good client cars that we can go out and experiment with.

01:17:16When should we come for, um, for, uh, uh, Austin city limits time.

01:17:19Or is that, I mean, that starts to know when there's no people,

01:17:23lobster fest, but I'd love, I'd love to, first of all,

01:17:27Pagoda because I've driven them and they're, you know, they are, they are,

01:17:31but, uh, the, the Z, the Nissan, the Datsun, the Datsun,

01:17:34like I said, the Z is an early car. And so you have to have a little bit of the,

01:17:38you know, the, I have a lot of sympathy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

01:17:41Well, this was fascinating. And we went, we went way over. So sorry.

01:17:46It's amazing. Well, we'll, uh, once we both drive the cars and I understand you

01:17:51have a, you have a, actually, one of the times we talked, do you have a PR?

01:17:54You're a PR person or something. We do. And she was saying we should drive you.

01:17:59You have a car out here. Oh, that was actually,

01:18:01they were actually trying to develop business with us.

01:18:03We have a different PR person now. Okay. Yeah. Because I mean, locally,

01:18:06we have to drive it. Uh, we do. So we have a, uh,

01:18:10a beautiful nine that we did that's here locally. And we have a speedster that,

01:18:15um, and we talked about with John's friend of ours.

01:18:19Maybe we'll have him have him on too. He would love to do it. All right.

01:18:22We'll get into the cars. We'll have him back. We'll talk more back with, uh,

01:18:25Jonathan. Yes. Top secret. Oh, that's right. That's right.

01:18:29And the site is moment motors.com. That is great.

01:18:33And there's a nine month waiting list. Yeah. But sign up. Why not? Yeah.

01:18:38Spend the time shopping for the car. We do talk that. I mean,

01:18:40sometimes that time is getting that car ready. Right. So it's, you know, if,

01:18:44if it's pristine and perfect, you're, you're waiting, but if it's not,

01:18:47it gives you the chance to do the cosmetic stuff and address this flood,

01:18:50the car, get the insurance check and then go talk to Mark. Awesome.

01:18:56Thank you, Mark. Yeah. It's great being here. I appreciate it guys.

01:19:18The inevitable vodcast brought to you by the all electric Nissan Aria inspired

01:19:23by the future designed for the now.

Category

Transcript

Recommended