MotorTrend's Ed Loh & Jonny Lieberman take the podcast on the road to the 2024 Portland E-Prix to chat with Nissan Formula E Team's Managing Director & Team Principal
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00:00Welcome to The Inevitable, a podcast by MotorTrend.
00:16Hi there and welcome to another episode of The Inevitable.
00:19This is the MotorTrend podcast, the MotorTrend Vodcast,
00:23about the future of the automobile.
00:26Where are we going, how are we going to get there, and what are we going to be racing?
00:30But before we get into it, Ed has a special message for you.
00:34The Inevitable Vodcast is brought to you by the all-electric Nissan Ariya,
00:38inspired by the future, designed for the now.
00:41And right now, Johnny, we have several questions related to this fantastic place we're at,
00:47which is Portland, Oregon. We are in town for the Formula E race.
00:51This is the second interview that we've done out here.
00:54Another shorty, but it's a great conversation with the team principal for Nissan's Formula E team,
01:00Tommaso Volpe. We'll get to him in a minute, but he's an interesting cat.
01:05I asked you ahead of this event to go out onto your Instagrams
01:10and ask for questions related to Formula E, and we actually got several good ones.
01:16One of which we actually asked our guest to answer, and that was yours,
01:21Kyle O'Connor, Kyle of Autospec, asked a great question.
01:25Let me find it here.
01:27I want to know what the technology-slash-consumer-benefit trickles down to a series production vehicle
01:32to serve as a consumer benefit for the extreme spending on a relatively low-viewership racing series.
01:37We asked—actually, we didn't even need to ask.
01:40No, he picked it up immediately.
01:42He kind of picked it up. Didn't really get into the extreme spending on low-viewership,
01:46but he did talk about, in detail, the tech transfer, which several other people asked for.
01:51So we won't answer that one. Listen for our guest's answer.
01:54It is a good, legit answer, too.
01:56It's a great question. Thank you, Kyle.
01:58And it is a good answer.
02:00But there are some other interesting questions in here.
02:05Are there plans—this is Harkins1997.
02:08Are there plans to try solid-state batteries in Formula E as soon as something is available?
02:13Yeah, sure.
02:14But as soon as solid-state materializes in a way that is both sort of financially affordable for a racing series
02:23and sustainable and durable.
02:25And more importantly, manufacturable.
02:27Yes.
02:28Because as our buddy Fabrizio Martini told us,
02:31the problem right now with solid-state is the technology in a laboratory environment is understood.
02:36Yes, it's twice as light as lithium-ion for the same energy density.
02:41However, you can't manufacture it.
02:44I forget exactly what he said it was.
02:46There's some wafer that has to be super thin, and it just shatters.
02:51So right now, it only lives in laboratories because there's no way to scale it.
02:56But, yeah, I mean, look.
02:58If you look at the—today is—I don't even know what country I'm in.
03:03It's the 28th of a month.
03:07If you were to look at the Internet yesterday,
03:09all it talked about—the Internet being the small little car Internet that I spend way too much time looking at—
03:15BMW M5 is too heavy.
03:17It's more heavy than a Bentayga.
03:18It's heavier than a this and a that.
03:20And it's real, real heavy.
03:22So getting weight down in EVs is—you got the performance.
03:30You look at the Lucid Sapphire.
03:32I mean, pffft.
03:34Look, I've long said it.
03:35Weight is the final frontier.
03:37We got the range, that same Sapphire, over 400 miles.
03:41Lucid makes a couple of vehicles that are over 500.
03:43The gravity supposedly can do even more than that.
03:46And if you look at the people, you can split up EV naysayers into a couple different groups.
03:51But one of them is like the serious petrolhead, the gearhead, the car enthusiast.
03:57And if the GT3 went up 60 pounds from the 991.2 to the 992.1, and they were screaming bloody murder.
04:06So, you know, you got to start getting weight down.
04:10And solid state maybe is the silver bullet that does that.
04:16There might be other technologies that do that.
04:18You know, it's just—you know.
04:20We got—yeah.
04:21Farley, Jim Farley, CEO of Ford, he wrote a really interesting LinkedIn message today, yesterday,
04:30that he was just saying about how he's fallen in love with the electric car, much to his chagrin.
04:37This is a guy that races cobras.
04:39And he's loving driving around in his Lightning.
04:42And I bring him up because he said something that I've said.
04:45And he said, you know, early innings.
04:47And I always tell people when they're like, EVs stink.
04:50And I'm like, dude, we're in like, you know, the seventh game of the World Series of gasoline cars.
04:57This has been going on for over 100 years.
04:59And they're good.
05:00However, EVs, we're, you know—
05:03The start of the season.
05:04Top of the first.
05:05We're in spring training.
05:06Yeah.
05:07Yeah, maybe.
05:08Maybe we're in the first inning now.
05:09Right.
05:10And, you know, things are going to change, and things are going to develop,
05:13and things are going to get a lot better.
05:15And battery tech, we already know it's going to get better.
05:18Mercedes just came out with the electric G-Wagon.
05:21You know, and I forget the exact range.
05:23It's like 260 miles.
05:25They also put out a little press release that said, hey, within 18 months to two years,
05:29we'll have this new battery technology.
05:31Same size battery is going to get 20% more range.
05:34They're going to switch to a silicon cathode instead of a graphite one.
05:39So, yeah, we want stuff like solid-state batteries.
05:43I don't know if it will be solid-state batteries.
05:46I heard—I think Fabrizio told us it would be like 2028, 2029,
05:50before that's a viable, producible technology that's five years away.
05:55We have more questions.
05:56Yeah.
05:57Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
05:58So a couple more questions from your post.
06:00Surprisingly, a lot of them we actually answered.
06:02So I'm just going to cover them off for these and say thank you to Felipe Viana.
06:08What was the most surprising strategy related to efficiency that you found on your experience with the car?
06:13And, again, we're not going to answer this one because our guest actually goes into detail on strategies
06:19related to Formula E electric vehicle racing specifically around efficiency and conserving energy.
06:26So great question.
06:27Thank you, Felipe.
06:28But real quick, he talks about how different mentalities of different drivers actually plays into that.
06:36But also when you drive electric cars, you do drive them a little bit differently.
06:41You still get to where you're going, but it gamifies it in a way.
06:46Yes, and he calls it the most intelligent form of racing.
06:48Yeah.
06:49It makes you think while driving.
06:50Yes.
06:51Okay.
06:52And here's another one from Eric Rieskamp.
06:54Okay.
06:55With production car EVs – you'll love this – with production EVs being overpowered,
07:00why are the race cars more similar to Nissan Leafs?
07:03They should be the new age Can-Am cars.
07:06Yeah.
07:07Okay.
07:08I think that's a great observation.
07:09I know.
07:10That's a terrible observation.
07:11So, yeah, I've long said, like, what do we need 1,000, 1,200 horsepower production cars?
07:15He's never driven a Pininfarina Batista, which has 1,900 horsepower, when you realize that's the right amount of horsepower.
07:20Right.
07:21I think, ultimately, you'll be great.
07:23Let's race that Batista around three laps around this track and see what happens.
07:27How dare you?
07:28How dare you?
07:29That's kind of the point.
07:30To make racing exciting, interesting, marketable in a format that you can have car commercials,
07:37you need the race to be a certain length.
07:40And, by the way, these Formula E cars are no slouch.
07:44Like, they are super fast.
07:46They're 0-60 now in, like, 1.8 seconds.
07:49I think the Gen 3 car does 200 miles an hour.
07:54Yeah.
07:55And it has 470 horsepower.
07:57Now, to his point, though, like, yeah, you know, unlimited rules Formula E, Can-Am Formula E.
08:03Like, let's go.
08:04I'm here for it.
08:05Yeah.
08:06I'm into it.
08:07Great question.
08:08Thank you, Eric.
08:09And then last one, which is grid connections.
08:11I don't know who it is, but he's tagging on to Kyle Connor's question.
08:17What is the Nissan team most excited about in the current Gen versus the upcoming Gen 4 race cars?
08:23We touched on it a little bit.
08:24Yeah, a little bit.
08:25I think part of it is that they got to be more actively involved in the development of that next generation of the Gen 4 car.
08:31So they're looking forward to that because they have had more sort of development control.
08:35And then, two, how is Nissan looking to stand out from the other Formula E teams?
08:40I mean, better strategy, better efficiency.
08:43Well, actually, again, I guess we'll talk about it.
08:45Yeah.
08:46They've had a great year, and the pressure's on next year for them to win.
08:50But back real quick to the first part of that question.
08:52It sounds like the Gen 4 cars are going to get a recharge and a pit stop.
08:56Right.
08:57And I think that'll be a real game changer because that'll let the races kind of go a little bit – potentially go a little bit quicker.
09:03I don't know.
09:04I heard that.
09:05I don't believe it because, if anything, if you could manage, you wouldn't pit at all.
09:10But I don't know.
09:11I could see getting a full battery all of a sudden.
09:14But that stuff's like 30 seconds long.
09:16That's nuts.
09:17It's going to be like a 600-kilowatt charge.
09:20It's going to be – I don't know.
09:21I think that'll be cool.
09:23And fast charging is something that consumers want.
09:26So there could be a huge carryover of technology there.
09:30So great questions.
09:31Thank you so much.
09:33Drop more of them into our Instagram DMs or shoot us an email at MotorTrend.
09:38And we'll do more posts like this.
09:39But, yeah, MotorTrend at MotorTrend.com.
09:42I'm Johnny Lieberman on Instagram.
09:44This is Lowdown.
09:45Lowdown, L-O-H-D-O-W-N.
09:47And let's talk about our guest, Tommaso Volpe, team principal for Nissan's Formula E team.
09:52This guy has basically spent the last half of his career with the broader Nissan and Infiniti group in motorsports.
10:01So maybe some little F1 in there?
10:03Yeah.
10:04But with Nissan and Infiniti in particular, he's been director of global motorsports for Infiniti Motor Company.
10:09He's also been the GM of the Formula E project.
10:12And he's now the team managing director and team principal.
10:15Prior to all of that, he worked for Group Lotus in their F1 program on retail merchandising.
10:21And he did some marketing for Ferrari and, before that, some consumer products marketing.
10:26Super sharp guy.
10:28And funny.
10:29Tells some great stories about what they're looking to do here in this championship in Formula E racing with their team.
10:38So without further ado, let's talk to Tommaso Volpe.
10:42Tommaso Volpe, thank you so much for taking time out of your super busy schedule on race weekend.
10:48Let's just jump right into it.
10:49Well, yeah, because before the camera started rolling, I said, yeah, this podcast is basically about what cars are going to be like in 15 years.
10:56And you said easy.
10:57Yeah, it was sarcastic.
10:58That's not easy.
10:59Oh, it's sarcastic.
11:00OK.
11:01It's an Italian easy.
11:04Pretty good.
11:05Super easy.
11:07OK.
11:08Hey, we're going to get there.
11:10I just want to know if you do something we didn't know.
11:12He has all the answers.
11:13If I did.
11:15You wouldn't be working today.
11:17Exactly.
11:18So we're late in the season here for Formula E.
11:23There's, I think, what, four races left.
11:25Nissan is technically still in contention.
11:27What are you what's your plan?
11:29What's your plan to win?
11:32To win?
11:33Well, this season for us is being surprisingly good.
11:37To be honest, we knew that the team was improving a lot last season.
11:41We could see already a huge difference in performance between the beginning at the end of the same season.
11:46So we were expecting us to keep on progressing.
11:50But to be perfectly honest with you, we were even surprised by how fast we were putting everything together.
11:59It's not easy.
12:00Competition is becoming harder and harder.
12:03But at the moment, we are in third position in the championship.
12:07It's going to be hard to keep it.
12:09But if we can finish there by the end of this season, it would be a great result.
12:15To what do you attribute this great success this year?
12:19I know you said it hasn't been easy.
12:21Anything in particular?
12:23Well, not one thing, but many things we have been putting together since Nissan bought the team two years ago now.
12:34And we had to restructure the whole organization.
12:37We couldn't do it the very first season because of time.
12:41You start racing and you cannot really start changing too much.
12:44But we started implementing fundamental changes in the organization in terms of talents.
12:51We had a very strong core of talents coming from the previous company, let's say.
12:57But we had to inject new, fresh talents.
13:02And also we changed procedures, process, tools we used.
13:06And we moved to a new workshop.
13:09So this also made a difference.
13:11And we had different things.
13:13We changed our driver lineup.
13:14And of course, we were expecting this to pay back.
13:19But as I said before, we were even surprised on how fast this turned out being the right direction.
13:28And it's not done yet.
13:30It's not done yet.
13:31We are still working on some additional improvements because the objective of Nissan is to win the championship
13:38or at least to fight for the championship.
13:40And we are third in this moment.
13:43But the gap with the top two teams is still there.
13:46And we have to fill this gap anyway.
13:49Some of that new talent, like Charlotte and Christina we just talked to, they're your engineers?
13:58Two of our engineers.
13:59But they are very, very good.
14:01Christina joined in September.
14:04So she's relatively new in the organization.
14:08And she was amazing.
14:10I mean, it took her one month to understand where she was.
14:13Because the culture in our team is very different from other teams where she worked before.
14:19Oh, yeah.
14:20Christina, six months.
14:22From September.
14:23Yes, yes, yes.
14:24OK.
14:25But after one month, I would say two months, she started to give her inputs.
14:30And I remember a very precise moment actually in the testing in Valencia.
14:35So she had been with the team for two months more or less.
14:40And she was surprisingly quiet the first days.
14:44And in the garage, you know, we are a very inclusive team and there are no egos.
14:50Everybody has the time and the space to express his or her own opinion.
14:55And we listen to everyone.
14:57And so there is a lot of talking in the garage.
15:01And she was a little bit quiet the first days.
15:04And we were like, OK.
15:07She's doing her things, her calculations.
15:11And then all of a sudden, the very last day, she just said, ah, guys, I have some ideas.
15:17I think we should change this and this and that.
15:19And Oliver, I think, gained like two tenths of a second per lap like that.
15:23She was comfortable.
15:24She was home in Spain.
15:25Yeah, for sure.
15:26And since then, of course, not just her, all of them.
15:31But she started to work with everyone.
15:33And then in January, we had David joining as well.
15:37And then, of course, Charlotte.
15:38Charlotte was already there.
15:41Can you talk about how Formula E has evolved since you got involved with it?
15:46Because the cars just seem so much better this season.
15:49And it sounds like next season, they'll even be better.
15:52But just the evolution and how quick it is.
15:55Because you've essentially been with this program since it's –
15:58Four years.
15:59Yeah, OK.
16:00Since the start.
16:01I mean, overlapping the ownership portion.
16:04Yeah.
16:05Nissan entered Formula E two years before I joined.
16:08OK.
16:09But we basically started being in Formula E for Generation 2.
16:15And I joined, let's say, during the second season, Generation 2.
16:20But in Generation 2, the operations were –
16:24Nissan was not in full control, really, of the operations.
16:28We were in partnership with an existing, very successful racing team.
16:33And that was called Nissan e-DAMS because of the ownership,
16:37which was basically DAMS as a company and a little bit complex, actually.
16:43That's how racing is.
16:44Yes, exactly.
16:47But it was great.
16:48It was working well.
16:49But at some point, what happened is that at the end of 2020,
16:55Nissan unveiled our Ambition 2030,
16:58which is a very ambitious corporate objective towards electrification.
17:04We plan to sell 60% of our cars electrified by 2030.
17:11So, all of a sudden, this project –
17:13It's coming up, yeah.
17:14Yeah, exactly.
17:15And this is the day after tomorrow, so it's very close.
17:18And all of a sudden, this project, which was already interesting
17:21because it gave us the opportunity to promote our already strong expertise in electrification.
17:28We are a pioneer in this technology and mobility.
17:31All of a sudden, it had the potential to become our halo project,
17:36global halo project to promote this big transformation coming up.
17:43But then, my conversation with the board was,
17:48I'm very happy, I'm in the right place.
17:52But if we really want to make it a pillar for the brand promotion,
17:57the global level, we really need to take full control of what it is.
18:01Good or bad, we need to be the factors of our destiny in the sport.
18:07And also, this way, you have full IP and you can really use it for the core business
18:12to improve also your cars, thanks to Formula E.
18:15And so, the decision was taken to buy everything.
18:19And this is where Nissan Formula E team was born,
18:24on time to start for the first time as Nissan Formula E team for the first season of Generation 3,
18:31which was exactly last year.
18:33That's why I was saying, last year for us was really the beginning,
18:36and then this year is the year where we want to consolidate ourselves as a team
18:42to be a proper Tier 1 team to fight for the championship.
18:46And next year is party time.
18:50I'm joking, it's going to be tough.
18:52Next year, pressure is on, right?
18:54Pressure is on, yes.
18:55Next year, the objective is to fight for the championship.
18:57Then maybe we'll be here talking about being third or tenth in the championship.
19:02The podium is okay, you know.
19:04No, no, but we...
19:05You got to win.
19:06Because you have a new car coming too, right?
19:07Yeah, exactly.
19:08And this new car actually has been directly influenced by Nissan R&D as well.
19:13Because the moment we bought the team and the operations,
19:16we had also this possibility to have a back and forward of technical learnings
19:21between our advanced R&D department in Japan
19:24and the Formula E operations, which are based in France.
19:28And so, of course, this was a little bit too late,
19:32if you want, for the first car in Generation 3.
19:35But the second one coming next year has been more directly influenced by Nissan know-how.
19:41Can you talk about any specifics, how it's been influenced?
19:45Well, there are different areas.
19:47In Formula E, the manufacturer can find performance mainly on the energy efficiency of the hardware,
19:56so the powertrain, which is bespoke and developed by the manufacturer.
20:01And so, to push as much as possible, the percentage,
20:06the average percentage of energy that's coming out from the battery becomes traction.
20:12And then there are all the software.
20:15There are different software, different tools,
20:17but let's say the energy management software is a key one.
20:21And all these softwares regulating or managing the dynamics of the car,
20:27at the end, also influence the vehicle efficiency.
20:33So not just the efficiency of the hardware,
20:38but how efficiently the dynamics of the car is managed during the race.
20:44So if I'm reading between the lines, it sounds like for a consumer product,
20:48like a car I might be able to buy, Ed might be able to buy,
20:51it would be like the software that would probably be, not so much the motors.
20:57So this is something that is very surprising when I say for the first time to the general public.
21:06In reality, the technology is exactly the same.
21:09We have a battery, an inverter, a gearbox, and a motor.
21:12And we cannot use the same parts from a Formula E car to a normal car.
21:19But the way we push this level…
21:21Well, you could.
21:22We could, but it would last 20,000, 30,000 kilometers.
21:27Hopefully our Nissan LEAF can reach one million kilometers.
21:32No, but the way we design these parts,
21:37of course we have a different context in terms of budgets and materials we can use,
21:42but still you can generate ideas that step by step can be cascading into the core products.
21:48And so to answer more precisely to the question you asked before,
21:52the gearbox of next year's season is probably the part that has generated
21:57the biggest improvement for us in the energy efficiency
22:01and actually in that case, this has been done using ideas that came from Nissan R&D.
22:08So things that were tested for road cars, gearbox.
22:16And so sometimes it's not even necessarily the solution that you ended up using in the core business,
22:25but the big companies like Nissan, you can imagine how many solutions they…
22:29Right, they're researching everything.
22:30They research before arriving to the final production.
22:33And I can see how…
22:34So you have in your database so many ideas that you have tested
22:39and then you can pick some to use in Formula E and vice versa.
22:43But I can see how a technology transfer would be in Formula E,
22:47obviously when you go to break you want as much regeneration as possible.
22:53But guess what, as a consumer car, I want that too.
22:57Exactly.
22:58The thing with electric vehicles, they haven't been successful as much as in the last years
23:03only because of mainly, but I would say the main obstacle, it was the battery.
23:10Yeah.
23:11Because in fact, the acceleration of an electric vehicle is much faster than an internal combustion engine.
23:18And so in fact, electric vehicles can be much more fun to drive.
23:23Yeah, yeah.
23:25But there was this strong limitation.
23:27That's why the first electric vehicles were city cars or cars which were not designed to be fast
23:34because the battery couldn't support for too long the push of the performance.
23:39Now, and that's why the efficiency is the crucial element.
23:42Yeah.
23:43And that's why this is an efficiency race, is an energy race.
23:46Right.
23:47If you go into Formula E works, it's not the brutal performance on one lap,
23:52which we have in qualifying.
23:54Right.
23:55But then during the race is how intelligently you use a given amount of energy
24:00in order to finish in front of everyone.
24:02Right.
24:03And this exercise is a combination of what is your energy efficiency in the hardware to start with,
24:09so how efficiently you transfer this energy into real traction,
24:13and the average percentage is higher than 95%.
24:17I cannot give you that.
24:18But that's wild.
24:20That's wild.
24:21But then still, you fight with all the others on, okay, if I use this 1% of energy in this lap,
24:28am I gaining more than if I use this 1% more in three laps time in a corner when I'm fighting again?
24:34So that's the strategy.
24:35It's very intelligent.
24:36That's the chess game.
24:37Exactly.
24:38It's a very intelligent racing.
24:40And we learn as manufacturers so much because this is exactly what the software
24:46and the control units in the electric vehicles do.
24:49Right.
24:50The only difference is that the driver is alone.
24:52Yeah.
24:53Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:54But you're trying to maximize, like, you know, the consumer is putting in, you know, 65 kilowatt hours of energy.
25:00Let's get them the most mileage possible.
25:02Exactly.
25:03And that's why you have different settings.
25:04You can choose sport drive, and then in that case, you are less efficient.
25:08You can choose, like, a more eco drive, and the control unit adapts.
25:13And we are also trying to make vehicles in the future that adapt with artificial intelligence
25:19automatically to the way the consumer is using the vehicles to correct.
25:25Right, right.
25:26So if I can summarize, what I'm hearing is because, you know, Nissan just ended production of the R35 GTR,
25:35which was internal combustion, one of our favorites, former motor car of the year.
25:39Absolutely.
25:40We love that thing.
25:41So you're saying the next one is going to take all of these learnings from Formula E
25:45in terms of high efficiency and fun to drive and rapid discharging of electrical power.
25:52Brutal power for qualifying.
25:54Brutal power in this transmission, right, for this.
25:57I mean, the Internet is going to explode if we divulge.
26:01Well, not at all.
26:02I don't know.
26:03Nissan is going to build an electric GTR.
26:04But everyone seems to think because they've shown that concept, hyperforce, I think,
26:09which very much looks like a GTR.
26:11Do you have any comment on any of this?
26:13It's the very first time someone asked me about this.
26:16Oh, yeah.
26:17Very first time.
26:18Sure.
26:19Very first time in the last 20 minutes.
26:21Well, nothing is confirmed.
26:23But you can imagine that a company which is transforming itself into,
26:28it's not just about electrification, by the way.
26:31Of course, electrification is the primary investment for us.
26:34But we are going into a sustainable mobility world.
26:37And electrification is one of the key technologies.
26:40Together with autonomous drive and connectivity that will lead mobility
26:46into a more intelligent mobility and a more sustainable mobility.
26:50So because this is an irreversible transformation,
26:54I would bet that the moment we should produce a new GTR will be part of this process.
27:01But nothing has been confirmed.
27:03Okay.
27:04But back to what you were saying about the intelligence of this race,
27:07it's really not that different than traditional racing
27:09because it was always pit stop strategy, fuel strategy, tires.
27:15It's brought to the extreme with Formula E.
27:19Of course.
27:20Because, in fact, most of the traditional racing drivers have to manage tires
27:29in an intelligent way.
27:31If there is refueling, then the team has to manage strategically when to do it,
27:36calculating the time you lose.
27:38Or, in any case, you have tires.
27:40But they don't have to manage the power of the car.
27:42I mean, they manage it by pushing as much as they can while managing tires.
27:48In our case, they need to manage tires,
27:50and they need to manage how to use the power and how to regenerate the power.
27:56Shall I regenerate more in these five laps?
27:59Because at the end of the day I will gain more.
28:02Or shall I push more?
28:04So you start to make it very simple.
28:07You start with a given amount of energy, which is the same for everyone,
28:11and a given amount of power output,
28:14because the power of the motor is fixed by regulation.
28:17So, again, the efficiency of the transformation of the energy into power,
28:22which can be different.
28:24But if you were not regenerating,
28:26you will stop around 40% before the end of the race.
28:30Right.
28:31Because this is how much is the gap between what we have
28:34and what we have to regenerate, around 40%.
28:36Wow.
28:37So imagine how complex it is.
28:39Okay, I need to regenerate around 40% of the energy,
28:41otherwise I don't even finish the race.
28:43Right.
28:44So when is the right moment to do it?
28:46Do you find that certain drivers are better at that?
28:49Yes.
28:50Because I was going to say, like a traditional race car driver,
28:52the guys I know, you know, tip of the spear, just sprint, sprint, sprint.
28:55Yeah, of course.
28:56And then you can't do that here.
28:58Yeah, the Nissan drivers are the best.
29:01We haven't shown it yet, but it's just a matter of time.
29:04That's good. I like that.
29:05No, definitely there are like three, four, five guys who are excellent on that.
29:10How do you find them, right?
29:12Like where does that – because Johnny, I was going to ask,
29:16we spent a lot of time talking with Christina and Charlotte about the hardware,
29:20but with you we're talking a lot about not just hardware, but the human element.
29:25What makes a driver good at being fast and efficient?
29:29And is that – like how do you find that guy?
29:31Because most of the time they're just flat out and they're going to wear down.
29:34That's all they want to do, yeah.
29:36Well, where to find them is a big challenge.
29:39Do you train them?
29:41It's a big challenge for Formula E, to be honest,
29:43because there are no junior categories preparing to the energy management.
29:47To go to Formula 1, for instance, you have a very standard pattern.
29:52Cards.
29:53Formula 3, Formula 2, Formula 1.
29:56Now it's becoming almost like a very –
29:58Conveyor belt, yeah.
29:59Exactly.
30:01Formula E, there is no junior category with full electric powertrain,
30:05so no series teaches you the energy management at that level.
30:13So the challenge we have is that we all look for fast drivers,
30:21but there is always an unknown on how well they can adapt to Formula E.
30:26And in fact, we have examples of very fast drivers
30:30that when they came to Formula E, they didn't really succeed and they left.
30:34Sure.
30:35So one thing definitely you try to test them before, of course, at the simulator.
30:41It's not that you put them at the jump in the car,
30:43so you try to understand if they are good at adapting to that.
30:46One thing that I would say is a fundamental element
30:49is the pure intelligence of the person.
30:54You really need to be very clever and very intelligent.
30:57I mean, these 22 drivers, they are not just talented, they are really clever.
31:02You need to be clever to understand how to drive in Formula E.
31:05Interesting.
31:06Yeah.
31:07I mean, look, I know some pretty successful drivers,
31:10like Scott Dixon, for instance.
31:12He's a smart guy.
31:13Of course, of course.
31:14I'm not saying that in that category you don't need it.
31:17They're all me.
31:18They're all me sports.
31:19Well, I know I could name a couple of drivers there.
31:21No, but I think when you succeed in everything,
31:25you are a clever person.
31:27Sure.
31:28But what I mean is that they really need to use their intelligence in Formula E
31:33as much as their talent.
31:35Right.
31:36Whereas in another category, you are a clever guy,
31:39but maybe when you're on, the only thing that matters for you
31:42is to go as fast as possible.
31:44Yeah, and I know a lot of guys that would just struggle.
31:48I've seen them drive, I've seen them race.
31:50So you've now talked to us about how it's a race of intelligence and efficiency.
31:58In your background, you have F1 experience.
32:01You also work with Ferrari.
32:03Is this as exciting as Formula 1?
32:07Formula 1 gets all of the glory right now because of Drive to Survive.
32:11It's Formula 1.
32:13But in America in particular, we went from like zero F1 races
32:17to now we have three cities.
32:18Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:19You can go to Canada, you can go to Mexico.
32:21Right.
32:22Is it as exciting?
32:23Is there something you wish the layman, the person who's never watched,
32:27what would you want to tell them about what makes Formula E exciting?
32:30So I think Formula E is, first of all, I love Formula 1.
32:35I worked there for many years.
32:37I am one of those that don't really see a competition.
32:42They are just different.
32:43I love Formula 1.
32:45I love Formula E.
32:48As far as my job is concerned, I've never been as happy as now, though,
32:52because the role is different anyway.
32:54So I'm super happy and proud of what the team is achieving.
32:59As a sport, I would say, again, they are different.
33:03Formula is very short.
33:04It's more like MotoGP in a way.
33:06I mean, it's not as short as MotoGP,
33:08but everything happens in a much shorter period of time
33:12compared to Formula 1.
33:14There is more action going on.
33:16It's more passing.
33:18Because of this game.
33:22I would say one thing that I found very interesting,
33:26and when I talked to drivers, even professional drivers,
33:30they confirmed that,
33:31is that if you follow Formula E and try to understand how it works,
33:35which is pushing, managing energy,
33:38then you see the percentage of battery there,
33:40and the regeneration plays such a crucial role,
33:43you start enjoying more driving electric vehicles for yourself as well.
33:47Because typically, on an electric vehicle,
33:49you have a dashboard that tells you how much you are regenerating,
33:53where you brake,
33:54and then you're scoring this energy,
33:56and then you can go faster,
33:58and you can push,
33:59and you can have fun with that.
34:01So I think that entering into the logic of Formula E
34:05gives you also the excitement
34:07when you actually use an electric vehicle.
34:09Because you kind of...
34:10And this is typical in motorsport.
34:12People love motorsport because they have this fantasy
34:15of driving themselves when they are in the car.
34:18And I think with Formula E,
34:20this is very strong as well,
34:22and it's very immediate,
34:24because then you see the battery percentage on your own dashboard,
34:28and it's quite fun.
34:30And you start wondering,
34:32have I bought a car which has enough energy efficiency?
34:36Right.
34:37Well, in the next GT-R, that R36,
34:40I can imagine in that multi-information display,
34:43the gauges now will go from just being like the spider graph
34:47and the g-ball to now maybe a battery efficiency,
34:51and all of that.
34:52Exactly.
34:53And auto-learning.
34:54Yeah.
34:55Luke, you are not braking quite efficiently, guy.
34:57You need to brake better in this lap.
35:00No, but a lot of EVs already do that.
35:03They have green coaching or whatever they call it.
35:05I think I had a Nissan Ariya
35:08that would tell you, I think it was an Ariya,
35:10but one of them would tell you how successful your braking was.
35:13Correct.
35:14That was 97% of what you…
35:15Exactly.
35:16You could have got 100, but you got 97.
35:18And this with electric vehicles can be done more easily
35:21than a combustion engine.
35:23Because it's all software.
35:24Exactly.
35:25It's all software.
35:26Exactly that.
35:27Okay.
35:28So, it's amazing the connection that you can make,
35:31not only from the technical standpoint,
35:33the learnings,
35:34but also visually the way it works between the sport
35:37and the core business is a world that we haven't explored yet,
35:41but I'm sure will give us a lot of opportunities
35:45as a car manufacturer.
35:46Okay.
35:47We're getting the high sign here that we're going to wrap it up.
35:49So, I just want to ask you one question.
35:51Again, for the fan,
35:53for somebody you want to convert,
35:55say, I love Leclerc.
35:56I love Verstappen.
35:59I'm watching Formula One.
36:01What part of the race should they watch for?
36:04What is the most exciting point for the spectator?
36:08Is it early?
36:10Is it late?
36:11Is there a moment that you should just watch out for
36:13when a driver does this?
36:16Is there anything?
36:17Well, two things.
36:18The dual phase in qualifying that doesn't exist
36:21in any other motorsport.
36:22Okay.
36:23This is really one shot.
36:24You have two cars alone on track
36:28just trying in one shot to get the best lap time.
36:31This is a one-to-one like tennis.
36:33It doesn't happen in any other motorsport.
36:36This is really exciting.
36:37I found it very exciting.
36:39And then the race,
36:41I would say it's difficult to say
36:42there is attack mode,
36:43which is quite interesting,
36:44but definitely the end of the races
36:46is always super exciting
36:49because you have all the games
36:51that the different drivers have put together.
36:55They come to an end
36:56and you see who is actually the winner,
36:59who is the guy in the team
37:00who has put together the best strategy at the end
37:03to actually be in the best position compared to the others.
37:07Because you've gone from this conserve, conserve, conserve.
37:09Conserve, conserve, play around, blah, blah, blah.
37:11And then you have at the end,
37:13they all build their own strategy,
37:16which sometimes is super obvious.
37:18Other times it's less.
37:19And then the last 10, even less laps,
37:23they all start.
37:24It's like poker, right?
37:25They start to put down all the cards.
37:27All in, all in, yeah.
37:28And then you see who has done the better job.
37:32I like it.
37:33It's super cool.
37:34Awesome.
37:35Great.
37:36Well, thank you, Tommaso.
37:37This was fantastic.
37:38I wish we had more time.
37:39But good luck this weekend
37:40and with the championship.
37:42Thank you very much.
37:56The Inevitable Vodcast.
37:58Brought to you by the all-electric Nissan Ariya.
38:01Inspired by the future.
38:02Designed for the now.
38:25Subs by www.zeoranger.co.uk